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#4256940 - 05/06/16 11:14 AM Re: some mods can cause stuttering [Re: dutch]  
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Bronnx Offline
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Bronnx  Offline
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Someone told me here on this forum that the white triangles are because of the " TrackIR" ...refreshing image, or something like this.
I did a Windows fresh install, no antivirus, no programs, no TrackIR, only the official drivers.
But those white triangles were there.
I'm telling you, Andy : if you try to find a solution, you are waisting your time.
Every other game i play on this PC, its running great.
The question is : WHY ?
Of course, everyone will tell us " there is nothing to fix "
What should they say ??

Last edited by Bronnx; 05/06/16 11:14 AM.

Intel I7 4790K / 16 GB DDR3 / Samsung SSD 850 EVO 500 GB / Gigabyte GA Z97X-UD5H / GTX 1080 / 4K Samsung UE55KS7500 / TrackIR 5 / X55 Saitek
#4256949 - 05/06/16 11:37 AM Re: some mods can cause stuttering [Re: OldHat]  
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Bronnx Offline
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Originally Posted By: OldHat
A few micro-stutters are acceptable, IMHO. There is no way that I know of how to get rid of them in WOFF, so I've adapted to having a few in 1918 missions.


Really ? A few micro-stutters are acceptable ? WOW
Let me tell you something. You buy from me a car, but some parts are missing, anyway, you can drive it.
So, is that acceptable ? Would you return the car ? Would you drive the car, or would you ask for your money back ?


Last edited by Bronnx; 05/06/16 11:38 AM.

Intel I7 4790K / 16 GB DDR3 / Samsung SSD 850 EVO 500 GB / Gigabyte GA Z97X-UD5H / GTX 1080 / 4K Samsung UE55KS7500 / TrackIR 5 / X55 Saitek
#4256962 - 05/06/16 12:29 PM Re: some mods can cause stuttering [Re: dutch]  
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RAF_Louvert Offline
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.

Bronnx and Andy, and others who have had to sort out the stutters, I feel your pain. WOFF can be quite finicky to sort out on some systems. I have spent a fair amount of time over the years playing around with countless settings to get it to run smoothly on my various flying rigs. However, I have always managed to get it to run smoothly, without stutters, right up until mid-to-late 1918. At that point I have to turn down some of the WOFF scenery and cloud settings to keep things smooth. It can be frustrating if you don't land on the right combination fairly early.

To those triangles at the edges of your screen, my experience in the past has been that they are related to the refresh rate of your monitor and your V-sync settings. I had them reappear recently and had to disable the "V-sync forced on" in WOFF and instead set it via the Nvidia control panel. Yet, before the latest upgrade it worked the other way around instead. I also had to increase the number of pre-rendered frames from my previous settings.

All I can recommend is that you keep trying different setting combinations until you find the magic that works for your particular rig. In my experience WOFF has always demanded lots of speed in the CPU and RAM and lots of memory in the GPU, and lots and lots of fussing about on some systems. It can be a difficult beast.

.


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Three RFC Brass Hats were strolling down a street in London. Two walked into a bar, the third one ducked.
_________________________________________________________________________

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#4256972 - 05/06/16 12:53 PM Re: some mods can cause stuttering [Re: Andy73]  
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dutch Offline
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Originally Posted By: Andy73
The Problem is, that nearly every Player Worldwide will say: "The Sim runs fine, no Problems here!"

So the two like us who are having Problems with this Game, will be ignored.

The Devs will fix nothing, it is on us. As always, the Comment will be: There is nothing to fix.
Sorry, but that's the Fact, we have to find out for ourselves what is wrong on our System.

I am also tired of tweaking and working on this Problem, I have spent MONTHS of my Life on this since WOFF was released in 2013.
But I like WOFF and I will give it a Chance, I am also a very big Fan of their Phase 3, which runs much, much better, perfectly smooth and liquid on my System even today.


Andy you rig should run Woff fine,
, Same on me when it becomes to The limited Forcefeedback and deffencive front gunner on the Fee, a big deny show starts. Only I hope you know me as a member that is not afraid to write down on what is wrong, based on my long history on WW1 flysims and my technical knowledge as being an Engineer. I can tell you I'm running a HD7970 and a i5-2500k on a Dell2650x1440 monitor and I do not have any stuttering, only time I had was when to much mods were loaded.

WOFF can run stutter free, if you like we could do an every day step by step in isolating the cause.
We could do this by pm on this forum or on a combat ace pm.

The only thing I want from you is that you do excact what I ask you to perform, other wise it makes no sense and I have to stop and have patenaince, because I'm very buisy in my work. Also an extra person would be helpfully to think about the stratigy.
Steps could be:
analyse your type of hardware
Make a video to see what is going on
Analyse what is the botlleneck using HWinfo & afterburner
Doing the actions for the improvements

pm me if you want and I hope a volunteer would join us, because it can be very difficuilt on a distance and my English is so bad that even the Rnas and RFC in Woff wil not accept me as a pilot. LOL.






Last edited by dutch; 05/06/16 12:58 PM.
#4257018 - 05/06/16 02:12 PM Re: some mods can cause stuttering [Re: dutch]  
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Lausbub78 Offline
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For anyone using an Intel i7 processor, I have read somewhere that Hyperthreading can affect performance in some cases ,not only in WoFF btw but in any Games. You can disable Hyperthreading in the Bios,but please read up first on how to do it,each Mainboard Brand may have it's own method.
Maybe it cures the stutters too or atleast bring them down to acceptable levels.

#4257026 - 05/06/16 02:45 PM Re: some mods can cause stuttering [Re: dutch]  
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Bucksnort Offline
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And since this is a thread about stuttering, I'll offer this:

I just recently purchased a G-SYNC monitor and once I got it up and running I was immediately hit by "oh, this is how computer games were supposed to look for the past 30 years!" I was skeptical and actually bought the monitor for screen size and refresh rate. G-SYNC was a nice to have but not disappointed if it didn't work. Instead, G-SYNC instantly became the main feature of the monitor for me. G-SYNC is not a gimmick.

The equipment game is never ending, but my thoughts would be, once your rig is able to hit 60 fps pretty consistently, the next money to spend is on a G-SYNC monitor. Its like a 20 year leap in technology. The only stutters I'm seeing now are when my hard drive light is on, so for me the next step is an SSD drive to probably eliminate a good chunk of that.

G-SYNC does tie the monitor refresh rate to whatever your video card is putting out at the moment, but your eye can't see the difference as it floats from 91 fps to 67 fps (or whatever it happens to be doing at the moment). I don't see the scalding fast fps numbers reaching 150+ anymore (that I had screen tearing problems with), but instead I see buttery smooth fps that averages about 80. Its pretty amazing, really.

Sorry if this is elementary to many of you, but I've been going through some monitor epiphanies of late dizzy


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#4257027 - 05/06/16 02:47 PM Re: some mods can cause stuttering [Re: dutch]  
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Hellshade Offline
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+1 to G-Sync Monitors.


Flying Wings Over Flanders Fields Ultimate Edition 5.x
videos at www.youtube.com/hellshade68

System Specs
(warning)
Intel i7 6700K OC 4.6 Ghz
Corsair Hydro H60 Liquid Cooler
16 GB Corsair Dominator Platinum DDR4 RAM
2 x EVO 850 1TB SSD Drives (OS & Games)
1 Intel 240GB SSD drive (Scratch drive for videos)
MSI Z170 GAMER M7 Motherboard
EVGA GTX 1080 Founders Edition
Corsair CX850M Power Supply
Acer XB280HK 27" G-SYNC Monitor
Corsair RGB STRAFE MX Silent Keyboard
Windows 10 Home 64 bit

#4257040 - 05/06/16 03:09 PM Re: some mods can cause stuttering [Re: Bronnx]  
Joined: Jun 2014
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OldHat Offline
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Originally Posted By: Bronnx

Really ? A few micro-stutters are acceptable ? WOW


That's only my point of view. It boils down to individual tolerance levels. I've been gaming/repairing computers since 1986 and ran through many PC issues, so I have my own views on what I can tolerate and what I see as unacceptable in games.

#4257050 - 05/06/16 03:24 PM Re: some mods can cause stuttering [Re: dutch]  
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Posts: 237
Bronnx Offline
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Bronnx  Offline
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ok guys, i give up
thank you, anyway, for all the advices
have fun with WOFF
bye


Intel I7 4790K / 16 GB DDR3 / Samsung SSD 850 EVO 500 GB / Gigabyte GA Z97X-UD5H / GTX 1080 / 4K Samsung UE55KS7500 / TrackIR 5 / X55 Saitek
#4257051 - 05/06/16 03:27 PM Re: some mods can cause stuttering [Re: dutch]  
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 714
Stache Offline
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Stache  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2015
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Michigan, USA
Andy / Bronxx -

If you are still willing to pursue this further, Dutch has made a very generous offer that you should follow up on.
Sounds like he has a methodical plan which is exactly what is necessary in cases like this.

Bronxx - When stuck on a problem the next step is to simplify.
I would first attack the graphic card and find out why it is on x8.
While as noted, it _may not_ be the issue, it should still be corrected.

Another issue you noted is the inability to record with shadowplay -
Is that in all games or just WOFF, that should be looked at.
(I'd still like to see a recording.)

Originally Posted By: Bronnx
Some users here, maybe, pretend they dont have / see / the micro-stutterings, and they play it as it is.

I take a bit of an exception to that statement, but I feel your frustration.
I have shown you a video with no stutters.
I have played the same QS and will do a video tonight to again show no stutters.

You can also use Prime95 to stress test your system and see if that turns up anything.

You can also use 3DMark to test the graphic sub system and ensure its performance is similar to others with your system specs.

I see you said you did a fresh windows install. That is good.
Did you do it on a minimal system?
On one post i saw you had five (5) hard drives

I would do a bare-bones system.
Single hard disk, no other cards other than monitor card.
Make the system as bare bones as possible.

I run my games and OS (Win10) on the same hard drive.
(Happens to be an M.2 SSD)

================================================
Bummer, guess I was a few minutes too late.

Last edited by Stache; 05/06/16 03:29 PM. Reason: Bronxx gave up.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. A. Einstein

(System Specs:)

I7-6700k OC 4.4GHZ, 16GB DDR4 3200Mhz; Gigabyte Gaming 7 MB, G1 OC'ed GTX980ti; Three-Acer XB271HU WQHD Gsync 144Mhz; Samsung 950-512GB NVMe SSD; WD 2TB-7200rpm; Cooler Master HAF XB EVO, Nepton 240M cooler, V1000 PS; Windows 10 PRO; VKB GunfighterPro Stick; Thrustmaster TPR Pedals; Saitek Throttle; Dual TM MFD panels; TrackIR 5
#4257065 - 05/06/16 03:51 PM Re: some mods can cause stuttering [Re: dutch]  
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Posts: 237
Bronnx Offline
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Bronnx  Offline
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Posts: 237
I tried the game on 3 different pc
Mine, with the 4k resolution
Another one with 2k and the last one with full hd, the last 2 pc, with gtx 660 and gtx 970
I deleted the game already, I'm not gonna spend my next 2 years for searching solutions
Have fun, everyone
Bye


Intel I7 4790K / 16 GB DDR3 / Samsung SSD 850 EVO 500 GB / Gigabyte GA Z97X-UD5H / GTX 1080 / 4K Samsung UE55KS7500 / TrackIR 5 / X55 Saitek
#4257069 - 05/06/16 03:55 PM Re: some mods can cause stuttering [Re: dutch]  
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Andy73 Offline
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Germany
Well, I won't give it up.

After searching the WWW for different Solutions today (again), I've found the following Article :

https://steamcommunity.com/app/271590/discussions/0/611704730329043028/


I've tried these Settings, as mentioned in the Article, and...

THIS HELPED A LOT!!!!

It is not running perfect yet, but way much better than before. I will try some more Tweaks.

As I always said, I think it has something to do with my Graphics Card and the NVIDIA-Drivers. A G-Sync Monitor will be my next Upgrade, I was thinking about that since a few Months.

I see some Light at the End of the Tunnel... biggrin

Last edited by Andy73; 05/06/16 03:57 PM.
#4257071 - 05/06/16 04:06 PM Re: some mods can cause stuttering [Re: Andy73]  
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kksnowbear Offline
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kksnowbear  Offline
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Posts: 459
Originally Posted By: Andy73
THIS HELPED A LOT!!!!


Yes, but if you read on down through the posts following the first one, it looks a lot like the discussion always does here: Try this. Do that. Post your settings. One guy says one thing solved his stutters completely, and the very next guy says that (what the first guy said) is full of sh*t, it doesn't work.

There's even one guy who says "It is all useless information...Game is poor optimized. There actually is memory leak issues and terrible issues!"

Regardless of which one of those guys you choose to believe, the fact is that they are all telling you different things, often in direct conflict with what someone else has sworn works for them...

...just like I've seen among people discussing the same thing, right here.

Interesting. I can actually see Bronx' point, and I feel for him.

#4257075 - 05/06/16 04:25 PM Re: some mods can cause stuttering [Re: dutch]  
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Posts: 4,075
Hellshade Offline
Hellshade
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Florida
I feel bad for Bronnx too, but somehow I find it impossible to believe that it's not possible to run WOFF 3 effectively on his system. I have lesser specs and I literally have posted well over 100 videos of W/OFF running great in campaign mode. The sim runs great. I have had to tweak my setup also but in the end it's been well worth it.


Flying Wings Over Flanders Fields Ultimate Edition 5.x
videos at www.youtube.com/hellshade68

System Specs
(warning)
Intel i7 6700K OC 4.6 Ghz
Corsair Hydro H60 Liquid Cooler
16 GB Corsair Dominator Platinum DDR4 RAM
2 x EVO 850 1TB SSD Drives (OS & Games)
1 Intel 240GB SSD drive (Scratch drive for videos)
MSI Z170 GAMER M7 Motherboard
EVGA GTX 1080 Founders Edition
Corsair CX850M Power Supply
Acer XB280HK 27" G-SYNC Monitor
Corsair RGB STRAFE MX Silent Keyboard
Windows 10 Home 64 bit

#4257096 - 05/06/16 05:17 PM Re: some mods can cause stuttering [Re: dutch]  
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kksnowbear Offline
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Yes, but there are two problems with the "I posted videos" theory:

1. I see small 'hitches' or stutters in a lot of videos (not yours, necessarily), but I understand there could be lots of factors which cause *that* and it's just another set of problems to figure out. For one thing, almost anything recorded using the PC you're playing on could be said to affect the recording - opens the door to the claim that any stutters etc are caused by the extra load on the PC. (As a 35+ year tech, I can tell you this is why test/measurement/recording equipment is always very carefully isolated from the "unit under test": Running the test apparatus/utility on the subject machine means unreliable results). There are other potential issues, as well - enough for me to look at it as not necessarily conclusive proof of anything. Yes, I could find ways to 'work around' the issues...but now it starts to become a lot like trying to find the cause stutters in the game - only it's just a video. I don't want to spend all of what little free time I have troubleshooting a game - much less a video of a game.

2. I firmly believe that some of what goes on is "apples to oranges". (Strictly as an example) Person A might have no stuttering when flying at a certain time/date, during certain weather, in a certain plane with a certain number/type of enemy A/C present. But Person B, who reports stutters all the time, was flying at a different time/date, different weather, different plane, different enemy A/C...and so on. So unless the exact same test is duplicated, all the reports of "I don't have stutters" - to me - are just as subjective as "I have stutters".

Also, take into account many people who say they don't have stutters have also posted - some in this thread - that "The only time I have stutters is when..." Well, then I guess you can't say "Never" now, can you?

#4257101 - 05/06/16 05:42 PM Re: some mods can cause stuttering [Re: dutch]  
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Stache Offline
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Stache  Offline
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Michigan, USA
Agreed.
1) Videos with stutters are not conclusive proof of stutters related to the software programming.
I was just hoping to see what the stutters actually presented themselves as.
It is hard to fix something you cannot see.
However, Videos with no stutters are pretty conclusive proof that the program can be run without stutters.

2) Apples to Apples, yes that's why I was looking at trying to find a repeatable, standard test. Which for the most part turned out to be the Quick Scenario. Which still has some variability, but cut out a lot.

Then there is also...
Who's to say that Bronxx "stutters" are the same as Andy73?
Maybe they have different interpretations of what a "stutter" is.

I am in the same boat with 35+ years of tech experience.
Though experience with current PC hardware is limited.

I find it interesting and unusual that Broxx had the same result with three different systems.


Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. A. Einstein

(System Specs:)

I7-6700k OC 4.4GHZ, 16GB DDR4 3200Mhz; Gigabyte Gaming 7 MB, G1 OC'ed GTX980ti; Three-Acer XB271HU WQHD Gsync 144Mhz; Samsung 950-512GB NVMe SSD; WD 2TB-7200rpm; Cooler Master HAF XB EVO, Nepton 240M cooler, V1000 PS; Windows 10 PRO; VKB GunfighterPro Stick; Thrustmaster TPR Pedals; Saitek Throttle; Dual TM MFD panels; TrackIR 5
#4257104 - 05/06/16 05:47 PM Re: some mods can cause stuttering [Re: dutch]  
Joined: Jul 2014
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Wolfstriked Offline
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Wolfstriked  Offline
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NYC
Try this.....probably dumb sounding but it works for me.

When you first get into cockpit,look around at all angles for a few seconds.I do this every time I ALT/TAB out to check the map(which is alot). When I get back to cockpit it stutters for awhile,I look fully around for a bit and then it smooths out.

#4257105 - 05/06/16 05:49 PM Re: some mods can cause stuttering [Re: dutch]  
Joined: Jan 2009
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Hellshade Offline
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Florida
I tend to find that in general, people see what they already believe and disregard or reason away any evidence to the contrary. I think maybe we all have that tendency unless we watch very carefully for it and are willing to admit to ourselves we could be mistaken. Myself included. Most people would much rather have validation that illumination. That's just life in general. So be it.

Sim runs fine for tons of people. Some right away. Some after changing configuration settings. If someone has neither the time nor the patience to work at it, I can't fault them for that at all. Totally understandable. But to say the sim stutters and it's because it was poorly programmed is false. It doesn't stutter when you take the time to configure it properly and PCs, with their near infinite variety, pretty often need to be configured for each game.

Now you could say "none of my other games are this hard to configure." That might be true. Chances are that none of your other games / sim are modeling the entire western front of WWI - no matter if you are there or not. WOFF aims a little higher than the pretty fishbowl that most sims are these days.

There are countless users and I see only a small handful saying they are having problems. Assign the problem wherever you would like. I personally find I get the best results when I focus on things that are within my control, so that's why I focus on looking at my settings and configurations. By all means, do what you find gets you the best results.


Flying Wings Over Flanders Fields Ultimate Edition 5.x
videos at www.youtube.com/hellshade68

System Specs
(warning)
Intel i7 6700K OC 4.6 Ghz
Corsair Hydro H60 Liquid Cooler
16 GB Corsair Dominator Platinum DDR4 RAM
2 x EVO 850 1TB SSD Drives (OS & Games)
1 Intel 240GB SSD drive (Scratch drive for videos)
MSI Z170 GAMER M7 Motherboard
EVGA GTX 1080 Founders Edition
Corsair CX850M Power Supply
Acer XB280HK 27" G-SYNC Monitor
Corsair RGB STRAFE MX Silent Keyboard
Windows 10 Home 64 bit

#4257109 - 05/06/16 05:55 PM Re: some mods can cause stuttering [Re: dutch]  
Joined: Sep 2007
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dutch Offline
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The difference is that I know what was causing the stutters. Simple by measuring what is wrong and bringing back WoFF to the state where there was no stutters. Without a structure and a plan you can never find the Root cause.

#4257118 - 05/06/16 06:15 PM Re: some mods can cause stuttering [Re: dutch]  
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kksnowbear Offline
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Something else: Many of the videos I see are 'air starts' - when the flight/mission etc is already well underway. For the sake of objectivity, it would be preferred to see something recorded from the startup/loading screens, to include all parts of a mission/flight.

One problem I decidedly have with any video, and that's that it's kind of like watching a magician: They show you their tricks from the angles they want you to see, but are very careful to not show you the angle that gives away the trick (OK, I stole this idea from My Cousin Vinny...but it's still perfectly valid). No one who's interested in promoting a sim is going to post anything that's not particularly flattering. I've seen some beautiful screen shots; almost look like real life. Does every image you see in the sim look that good? Not if we're being objective. Of course, the "photographer" has chosen his best work (and that which flatters the model).

Finally, I'd have to respectfully disagree that PC's "...pretty often need to be configured for each game". That's not been my experience, and most of the people who say they have stuttering have also said they don't have problems in other games (without having to go through much, if any, configuration). In fact, my experience is totally opposite. Although I have fiddled with graphics settings a lot to make games run or look better, I have yet to see one that I just could never get right, no matter what I tried. (Admittedly I do not play many games now, but over the years we're talking probably 25+ titles).

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