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#4481920 - 07/07/19 05:30 PM Stopped Fokker E.III bouncing on the ground  
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I just transferred to Marine KEK (MFJ1) and had my first flight in Fokker E.III on 11/1/1916. I didn't check the wind speed when I started but I'm using historical weather.

The handling of the Fokker was just insane. The wind was constantly tossing the plane around like a feather, often pushing it over 30 degrees off course in one blow! If I allowed the speed to go below 115 km/h or so I would completely lose aileron control and the plane would become completely uncontrollable at 100 km/h. During the miserable flight me on my wingman were attacked by a pair Nieuport 10 and as I was climbing to help my wingman the wing blew my plane into spin at around 100 km/h speed without stall warnings or anything (the speedometer was constantly swinging wildly between 105-90 km/h but surely the stall speed isn't that low?).

After losing my wingman I returned to base where I did by far the hardest landing I have done in this game*. I had to come it at well over 100 km/h to keep aileron control and as my speed reduced and as I was decelerating the left wing slammed to the ground and I just barely manged to keep it from rolling over. When the speed died down for a second I thought the nightmare flight was finally over but instead the stationary Fokker started violently slamming left and right with both wings hitting the ground one after another. It kept going for over 10 seconds at steady pace like a mechanical bull. I don't know if it would have every stopped on its own but I stopped the missions there because I was worried the plane would get destroyed.

Was this just another day in the office for Fokker E.III? I thought that this was just the worst possible flight weather for the most unstable available aircraft until the Fokker turned into a perpetual motion machine. I have no mods that would affect plane handling, weather or missions... I'm also pretty sure my joystick was not acting up although I did consider it trying to reach the high flying Nieuport when my plane kept doing 45 degree turns to the opposite direction from where I was steering.

* My second hardest was landing an Aviatic C.I with no engine power and third of the upper left wing missing into forest next to an enemy AAA concentration. I had to keep the velocity over 100 km/h to prevent it from rolling and veering left so I had to bring it down in a steep dive tilted right and pull up at the last fraction of a second to hit the ground wheels first at survivable velocity. This was still far easier than landing the undamaged Fokker.

Last edited by mvp7; 07/07/19 05:37 PM.
#4481935 - 07/07/19 06:49 PM Re: Stopped Fokker E.III bouncing on the ground [Re: mvp7]  
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After a second mission in Eindecker, this time in gentle 3 know wind, lot of the handling issues seem to have been due to the wind. Roll needs to be adjusted constantly and the right wing starts falling when speed goes below 100 km/h but the wild course changes and crazy landing were gone and there was no endless seesawing from wing to wing after the plane stopped.

Is there some kind of physics bugs that is known to cause wings going seesaw on the ground or did some kind of wind effect get stuck on after I had stopped?

Last edited by mvp7; 07/07/19 06:50 PM.
#4481939 - 07/07/19 08:22 PM Re: Stopped Fokker E.III bouncing on the ground [Re: mvp7]  
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Was there snow on the ground? That seems to make it very bumpy on the ground.

#4481990 - 07/08/19 02:06 PM Re: Stopped Fokker E.III bouncing on the ground [Re: mvp7]  
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Yeah there was snow and the runway was definitely bumpier than I was used to. Maybe a perfect combination of heavy wind and snow caused some kind of resonance that made the stationary plane go crazy...

#4492476 - 10/11/19 04:54 PM Re: Stopped Fokker E.III bouncing on the ground [Re: mvp7]  
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I just had another run-in with this issue with WOFFPE 5.01 version. This time it was Nieuport 11 that went crazy while taking of during windless summer mission. Right after I throttled up on take-off the Nieuport just started rocking side to side at increasing intensity even after I cut the engine.

Rather odd as there was virtually nothing in common with the similar issues I had in UE landing the Fokker E.III in windy weather on snowy field. This was also on a completely different computer .

#4492833 - 10/14/19 10:54 AM Re: Stopped Fokker E.III bouncing on the ground [Re: mvp7]  
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Strange mvp7, are you running any mods? Snow is bumpy and dangerous to fly for sure. Some clouds like real life are very dangerous. Avoid large clouds.

Last edited by Polovski; 10/14/19 10:58 AM.

Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#4492840 - 10/14/19 01:06 PM Re: Stopped Fokker E.III bouncing on the ground [Re: mvp7]  
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I wasn't running any mods when I had the original Fokker E.III flight stability and ground bouncing issues. In PE I'm not using any mods that would effect aircraft handling, just skins, news mod and couple settings from multimod (adjusted default zoom level and single bomb drop). I haven't experienced anything as extreme flying E.III in PE but the Eindeckers in general seem very unstable when compared to every other plane in the game.

I still wonder if there's something odd going on with the weather. Back in the Fokker campaign (and every other UE campaign for that matter) the reported wind speed at the start of the mission was always at least 3 knots, never less. Now in PE I have played three separate campaigns at different times and areas and the reported wind speed has been 0 knots in every mission.

I suspect the bouncing on the ground is a separate issue from Eindecker handling since the Nieuport bounciness happened in perfectly fine weather and reported 0 kn wind speed.

#4492946 - 10/15/19 01:32 AM Re: Stopped Fokker E.III bouncing on the ground [Re: mvp7]  
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There really seems to be something bugged with the weather reports that you get with the "Persistent Weather Stats" option on. In PE it shows nothing but 0 knots calm but I just had a mission in a borderline hurricane so there definitely was wind.

Speaking of the wind, there seems to be really extreme differences in the wind/turbulence sensitivity of the aircraft. Planes like Eindeckers and Nieuports are barely flyable in strong wind, having just a fraction of their normal climb rate and maneuverability and pretty much constantly displaying the stall warning when the speed is below 60 knots. Just staying in the air is a challenge, fighting almost impossible, while landing and take-off are just plain terrifying.

For comparison, a F.E.2b will fly in any weather the game can throw at you with the stability of an ocean liner. The only effect wind has on it is a gentlest little nod every now and then when you are hit by a particularly fierce gust. You could pretty much let go of the stick and go make a sandwich, meanwhile an Eindecker will enter an upside-down-flat-spin if you try to wipe the sweat off your forehead with your flying hand.

I really don't have any expertise in this field so I don't know if this is perfectly accurate for the involved aircraft. F.E.2b is certainly about three times as heavy as the Nieuports/Eindeckers so I imagine it would be significantly more stable. It just seems that most of the planes are falling into the two extreme ends of wind/turbulence sensitivity and by gut feeling both seem a little bit off.

Last edited by mvp7; 10/15/19 01:42 AM.
#4492950 - 10/15/19 01:39 AM Re: Stopped Fokker E.III bouncing on the ground [Re: mvp7]  
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My advice .... turn off the wind and lens flare. Not realistic in WOFF compared to civilian flight sims. You'll have enough on your plate to deal with and try and survive with the AI, random engine failures, fires, and other variables, IMHO.

For example, try a solo mission to the front flying for Germany in a two-seater in 1917 ....and without wind....

The rocking plane model has nothing to do with the wind. I'm guessing the FM needs to be fixed for those crafts.

#4492952 - 10/15/19 02:05 AM Re: Stopped Fokker E.III bouncing on the ground [Re: mvp7]  
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The Eindeckers and Nieups. are, generally speaking, fairly light and unstable aircraft - so this may be one of the reasons why such oddities show up with them. I recommend trying out my Fokker E.IIa FM mod from my FM packs - to see if it corrects or minimizes some of the strange effects you've noticed Mvp while flying in high winds. There is some more rudder authority on my E.IIa mod, and the wing warping is somewhat more effective as well.

Can't comment on the wind realism since, sadly, in FE2 (and SF2) it is not all that well modeled - basically wind effects are negligible in the TW sims below about 10,000 to 12,000 feet altitude or so, higher there is some subtle wind drift present which is welcome - so I have had to look for workarounds to it such as cockpit rumble, more noticeable stall effects, etc., when flying lower than about 10,000 feet. I enjoy the occasionally dramatic winds in WOFF.

Von S smile2

#4492966 - 10/15/19 07:11 AM Re: Stopped Fokker E.III bouncing on the ground [Re: mvp7]  
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I've flown aircraft of comparable weight in fairly windy conditions and turbulence with a vertical speed of over 10 Kts. This is in a Motor Falke (a 100HP self launching glider that is only 35Kg heavier than an E.III), WoFF does a fair job of recreating what it feels like to have a 15 kt thermal pick up a wing on you out of nowhere or a sudden down draft push you down a hundred feet or so in a few seconds. Encountering rough air in this kind of aircraft requires very prompt and firm correction where possible and, in other cases, you're just a passenger until the sky gods are done pushing you around. I never had one do the pogo stick bounce on the ground though, that's one of WoFFs amusing phenomenon which seems reasonably harmless (despite the "Over G" warnings you might get).

WoFF is pretty forgiving really, in that you don't see any windshear at low altitude or effects of wind around mountains and such, you always seem to have a nice, safe, stable patch of air near to the ground which isn't always the case IRL. The wind/rough air is realistic in my personal experience.


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#4493011 - 10/15/19 02:37 PM Re: Stopped Fokker E.III bouncing on the ground [Re: mvp7]  
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Thanks for replies. So I guess some WOFF aircraft are a bit too stable more than the flimsy ones being too unstable.


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