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#2248958 - 07/01/07 11:23 PM RB3D :Effect of scud clouds? sun glare? code released?  
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 111
Vox Offline
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Vox  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 111
I loaded up RB on a retro machine with a Voodoo II. (Pent 600, 384 RAM, TNT Ultra, Cougar HOTAS) I'm running stock RB3D and having a ball. It's been ages since I last played, and see a lot more is known about the game then when I last played. So I have a few questions:

After loading, the readme file had this :

"Red Baron 3D has two distinct forms of clouds. There are "discrete," clouds, which are large fluffy objects, and "scud layers," which represent thick banks of clouds in layers. The AI pilots are unable to detect or track aircraft when a scud layer is between them, but the discrete clouds impose no viewing restrictions."

Questions. Is it true that AI are unable to detect or track ac in the scud layer? (I don't remember this) How about sun glare effects on the AI? Was the source code ever released?

Many thanks to all of you who work hard to keep this great sim alive!

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#2249047 - 07/02/07 02:48 AM Re: RB3D :Effect of scud clouds? sun glare? code released? [Re: Vox]  
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,143
Birdbrain Offline
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Birdbrain  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,143
Tallahassee, Florida
Welcome back. RB has matured into a wonderful game, trained like a bonsai by wise masters of gaming art.

In my experience it is true. If a scud layer is between you and the enemy, he will not see you. For example, I have been attacking a balloon and have detected EA above me, seen them with F-8, flying above the cloud layer, but they have not come down to drive me off. Or I have been high up on barrage patrol and discovered a ground attack below me, under the cloud layer, but the belligerents show no awareness of our passing over them.

I have read that the enemy is not blinded by sun-glare as I am, but I don't know where the writer got his information. Perhaps someone has it on some authority? I play with sun-glare turned off, as I play with a Glide wrapper, and sun-glare drags down my frame rate.


As ever,
Birdbrain
#2251428 - 07/05/07 12:16 AM Re: RB3D :Effect of scud clouds? sun glare? code released? [Re: Birdbrain]  
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,428
Skiddmark Offline
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Skiddmark  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,428
Glenville WV USA
It is strange tht Sun glare has no effect on the AI since using it was one of the major dicta of WWI air combat.
The code (it's construction layout)will never be released. The current owners of the 'rights' probably don't even posses it, it being lost through so many ownership changes.
So, Vox, are you taking advantage of any of the amazing graphics upgrades available?
Terrain and SWWISA planes would be the minimum.
OvS' site has HA Gold to update the stock plane set. You can also get the OTE/PL combo terrain/effects there.
http://www.hellsangels.firstflare.com/
You can get the PL2/PL combo terrain/effects here: http://files.filefront.com/PL2zip/;7202374;/fileinfo.html
The current most used utilities are CM11 and FCJ=CP described in this Forum's sticky threads.


Computer = PHENOMX3
MOBO: ASUS M4A78 Plus
OS = Microsoft Windows XP SP3 Home Edition (5.1,build 2600)
Processor = AMD 8750 triple core 2.4GHz
RAM = 3328 MB
DX 9.0c
Nvidia GeForce GS 250, 512MB
Realtek HD audio
Disk Drives:
Floppy's: D: HL-DT-ST DVDRRW GSA-H21L, E: ASUS CD-S480/A5
HD's: C:ST3250310AS 250Gb
F: Maxtor 6L250S0 250Gb
H: SM_USB20 flash drive 4Gb
Monitor: Proscan 32" LCD TV in VGA mode.
#2252026 - 07/05/07 08:21 PM Re: RB3D :Effect of scud clouds? sun glare? code released? [Re: Skiddmark]  
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 111
Vox Offline
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Vox  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 111
Thank-you Birdbrain and Skiddmark for the info.

Re: Clouds. I remember that the developers decided to drop the clouds in the first release of RBII . "Too big a frame rate hit", wait for the Glide version they said. There were some complaints back then from users of the old DOS RB I because they remembered the clouds in that game. Now those were clouds to hide in! Lot's of fun! ... Apparently they made good on their promises and reintroduced scud clouds in RB3D

Re: Sun glare. Yep, that's what I was thinking Skid, sun glare and clouds are mentioned in many RL descriptions. It would be a pity if the sun glare were of no use in the game because it's well done IMHO. When an ac is between me and the sun, I gradually lose sight until it nearly disappears in the hazy sun. It's almost like there's a layer somethirng like a cloud graphic that masks the full effect. Would n't it be cool to be able to amp it up \:\) . I looked back though the RB3D manual, the sun glare is mentioned several places . In the chapter Final Words it discusses tactics to use in the game and says: " Use the sun to your advantage by keeping it to your back whenever possible. " I know what your thinking , don't believe every thing you read in a manual. Maybe like the scud clouds , the sun can mask an initial attack, or (wishing here), effect bullet accuracy.

Skid, I still have the stock version installed and having a ball. I read your sticky post. Took some notes. Looked at some websites; and some mighty impressive work by a lot of players. I'll ease in maybe start with that CM utiliity, then experiment with FMs, then graphics then...Oh boy, I'm learning the ropes all over again, it's part of the fun. Picked up some new books, and fired up my ole copy of the Blue Max. Now all I need is some free time!

#2252108 - 07/05/07 10:05 PM Re: RB3D :Effect of scud clouds? sun glare? code released? [Re: Vox]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 415
LE Heureux Offline
Red Baron ESC 124
LE Heureux  Offline
Red Baron ESC 124
Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 415
NE Colorado USA
>>...users of the old DOS RB ...remembered the clouds in that game. Now those were clouds to hide in! >>

Boy they sure were! Remember trying to catch those 2 Rolands that dived away through the clouds and shot one up so badly?!? The only thing worse was trying to fight the Brisfits which were fast AND had a bad stinger in the tail... or maybe it was trying to get a Zeppelin to catch and go whoomp! Or maybe the Archie protecting the kite balloons. Or real gun jams you couldn't always unjam.

Yup, there were a LOT of good things in that older game that I wished made it unto RB3d.


Au revoir en l'air...S!
Hex
#2252520 - 07/06/07 03:00 PM Re: RB3D :Effect of scud clouds? sun glare? code released? [Re: LE Heureux]  
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 111
Vox Offline
Member
Vox  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 111
Quote:
Boy they sure were! Remember trying to catch those 2 Rolands that dived away through the clouds and shot one up so badly?!? The only thing worse was trying to fight the Brisfits which were fast AND had a bad stinger in the tail... or maybe it was trying to get a Zeppelin to catch and go whoomp! Or maybe the Archie protecting the kite balloons. Or real gun jams you couldn't always unjam.


Yes I do \:\) I forgot about those gun jams! The clouds were more like dense cloud banks. When you were inside, you couldn't see Sh*& You just heard the eerie sounds of nearby engines searching for you ...You had to watch your instruments; it was easy to stall and turn over inside. One time I popped out the top of the clouds, into a clear blue sky, to finally find a balloon I was hunting for ...Then instinctively looking behind me to see others emerging from the white-- huntin me. What it lacked in graphics, it made up for it in drama and gameplay. 16 color RB got me hooked on combat sims. Still a good simple game to hook new players into flight sims.

#2253228 - 07/07/07 04:16 PM Re: RB3D :Effect of scud clouds? sun glare? code released? [Re: Vox]  
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,097
Skylark Offline
Old Timer's Club Member
Skylark  Offline
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Hotshot

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,097
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Hi Guys,
I'm using HASP2 and I've found that the cloud cover still works
or else my flight leader has gone blind.....
With our flight above solid cloud cover. Escorted German bomber flights can
fly right across our path, below this cloud cover, without being seen by our flight leader.
I've also noticed that when pursued by an aggressive Albatross. A zoom climb above the
cloud cap, seems to through him off the chase.
Also, during particularly difficult combats, a 'Split-S' manoeuvre downward and diving through the overcast below, followed by an abrupt change of direction,
has saved this pilot's butt more than once during this career campaign....

As for the 'Sun's Glare'... This seems to have no effect on my opponent's SA
other than making landings, into the sun, difficult for me....

Last edited by Skylark; 07/07/07 04:22 PM.

"The further backwards you look, the further forwards you can see"
Winston Churchill

http://www.sandbagger.uk.com/skylark.html

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