#4411756 - 03/20/18 07:52 PM
Re: WOTR news?
[Re: JimBobb]
|
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,394
ArisFuser
Member
|
Member
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,394
|
While they are decent flight games there is no dynamic campaign, that's why WOTR should be the better choice for single player, like WOFF. As far as I know, there hasn´t been a single air simulator with a dynamic campaign since Falcon 4.0 by MicroProse.( edit, JJJ65 proved my bad memory, BOB and Mig Alleys are good examples too) There are and have been several offline , "career mode", randomly generated mission simulators in which the actions by the player make no real influence. They are all sort of scripted, aleatory missions within a more or less historical background and environment (in this, of course,WOFF, notoriously excels). IL2BOS latest career mode is a serious attempt at creating what Pat Wilson tried in his mod, and is a good try. WOFF´s engine creates a very nice bunch of missions well suited for a very realistic war environment because of the number of squadrons, airbases, historical war phases etc and the way they are all skillfully intertwined. The real gem is the background, the amount of historically researched and depicted squadrons, pilots, airbases, etc,... but the campaing per se, is far from dynamic. Creating a dynamic environment/campaign would be a daunting task for a AAA company, and in the case of WW1 quite a nonsense anyway. Having enemy airbases/factories/railways damaged for a certain period of time due to players action would make much more sense in a modern scenario anyway. So, as offline flight simmers we tend to look for historically well researched , plausible scenarios. We feel them as inmersive but the richness of missions and the campaign itself is quite limited in my opinion.
Last edited by ArisFuser; 03/21/18 09:23 AM.
|
|
|
#4411813 - 03/21/18 02:17 AM
Re: WOTR news?
[Re: JimBobb]
|
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 740
Ace_Pilto
Livestreamer/YouTuber
|
Livestreamer/YouTuber
Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 740
Sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha
|
Pat's campaigns are the closest thing I've seen to WoFF outside older games like Falcon and RB3D. They do track individual pilots and aces in great detail in the latest iterations and include dynamic elements that are above the norm in many respects, they're not quite on WoFF level in other regards but, for the average user's purposes, his app is very adequate and user friendly.
All of the big sims these days have neglected one or both of the most important single player ingredients, the AI. To have a viable SP game you need both to play nicely together. BoX. RoF and DCS have achieved varying levels of success in creating drones that you can fight against but none of them hold a candle to the AI in WoFF, they don't even come close to the candle shop. In fact they're on another planet in another galaxy where candles are a distant rumour. No matter how sophisticated their campaigns become they will never be remotely as good as WoFF's because their AI absolutely stinks to high heaven of developer laziness or abject unwillingness to invest in improvement of what should be a core component of any good combat simulation. In IL-BoX, RoF or DCS the AI doesn't care if it lives or dies and it has no tactical nous whatsoever, it's just a slab of code that fights you until you kill it, usually either very badly or with superhuman accuracy and laser precise flying ability.
If you go and watch Hellshade's latest videos you'll see a Nieuport that just refuses to be shot down. It's wild and unpredictable maneuvers are almost human. The Nieuport makes repeated attempts to disengage rather than carry on the fight under hopeless circumstances and displays competence and an awareness of its' surroundings and situation. It even uses unorthodox and uncoordinated maneuvers in a desperate attempt to turn the tide and escape. WoFF is a perfect showcase of what a good AI should be and anyone who isn't actively trying to either emulate or better is isn't even in the game in terms of being competitive in offering a single player combat flight sim. Comparing Hellshade's video and my own experiences to my experience playing a mission in BoX or RoF's career/PWCG is like comparing chalk and cheese. PWCG is a great app, the new BoX career is well presented, good enough levels of detail to be called a campaign and both are quite adequate until you fly a mission in them. Try something like a 109 or 190 in BoX and watching as your entire flight die in short order because they haplessly tried to out turn a flight of I-16's on the deck at 250-300kph. It is absurd. I often shut the game down in disgust, wondering exactly what the latest patch notes were referring to when they touted "Improvements to AI"
What improvements exactly? Who's AI have 777/1CGS been improving since RoF was released in 2009? I think their AI programmer must forget to submit his work each patch because I certainly haven't seen any progress whatsoever in all that time. The AI in BoX is EXACTLY the same as RoF AI was in 2009. I think they're lying about improving it to be honest Trying a career in RoF is no better, the flight commander tours the lines diving after every single balloon and completely disregarding anything else until archie kills him, either that or he tries to turnfight Dr.1's in his SPAD and dies. PWCG fixes this by removing most of the balloons. DCS AI seems to be pretty much the same, I've never seen it attempt to do anything other than maneuver for a shot. It never flies defensively, never tries to escape, it's always calculating the most efficient path to maneuver for a gun solution and that's all it does. I can't comment on ED's dynamic campaign because there is no such thing which is a mystery to me. Imagine a new Silent Hunter game where you can go into the boat, turn on all the switches and tootle around at sea but apart from that nothing ever happens. Seems like a total waste of time to me unless you really like flicking historically accurate switches. Or perhaps a Formula 1 game where you just drive around the track on your own.
In short the latest sims are offering a single player experience that is either non-existent or a mile wide but an inch deep whereas WoFF offers you depth and breadth that would intimidate Captain Nemo. I sincerely hope that these new companies get their act together and at least get on a competitive footing, until then keep showing them how it's done OBD.
Last edited by Ace_Pilto; 03/21/18 02:19 AM.
Let's pretend I got the BWOC badge to embed here.
Wenn ihr sieg im deine Kampf selbst gegen, wirst stark wie Stahl sein. "The best techniques are passed on by the survivors." - Gaiden Shinji
|
|
|
#4411842 - 03/21/18 07:39 AM
Re: WOTR news?
[Re: Polovski]
|
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 616
JimBobb
Member
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 616
|
WOFF's campaign system is way more dynamic than many other so called dynamic campaigns. The normal campaign missions never just repeat they are freshly generated every time you go to fly. Even if you quit and try it again. i.e. they are not just a bunch of pre set missions as found in most sims. Also the coming and going of regular pilots is tracked, their deaths and so on a lot of things are dynamic. Also we do keep an eye on your player and what he does, for example shooting a friendly will get you in trouble, more than once often get in in mega trouble and so on.
The only thing that isn't is you can't destroy an airfield and expect it to be still destroyed on other days later like F16 Combat Pilot (which had a far more interesting campaign system than Falcon at that time).
We introduced some scripted events for the Gotha and Zep Blitz - as they were historical events and occurred on specific days, and targets were historically specific etc. However even those will still always be somewhat different when you run them. S! Polovski, can we expect new things with dynamic campaign in WOTR ?
|
|
|
#4412207 - 03/22/18 03:11 PM
Re: WOTR news?
[Re: Polovski]
|
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 616
JimBobb
Member
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 616
|
Oh and fundamental on the Dynamic campaign point that is often missed.. one big "Dynamic" function not found in most sims, is that in WOFF the enemy flights are actually on real missions, not spawned. Enemy troops are out in major battles, tanks etc. All fighting each other. The world is a living world.
Big difference from spawning a few aircraft or objects along the way or only at the target. In WOFF you can stumble across activity or completely miss it by luck just as in real life.
That is great Pol, but can it be done real time for WOTR? The only thing that kind of brakes this immersion for me that it is not real time, meaning it would be cool if you could see everything on map moving while you are sitting in menu tower. I guess this is what makes Falcon 4 and Enemy Engaged such great, that you can see it in real time! (and also the destroyable buildings that are destroyed over time). In enemy engaged you can just sit in the tower and watch the war fight itself if you want to.
|
|
|
#4412211 - 03/22/18 03:39 PM
Re: WOTR news?
[Re: JimBobb]
|
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 616
JimBobb
Member
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 616
|
Having enemy airbases/factories/railways damaged for a certain period of time due to players action would make much more sense in a modern scenario anyway. So, as offline flight simmers we tend to look for historically well researched , plausible scenarios. We feel them as inmersive but the richness of missions and the campaign itself is quite limited in my opinion. While true, a game is a game and for example I would like to be able to change the fate of history,,, that's the charm of video games Look at Hearts of Iron 4 or Europa Universalis 4 by Paradox, it's a godd example of how to make a sanbox game with historical background.
|
|
|
#4412690 - 03/25/18 11:09 AM
Re: WOTR news?
[Re: JimBobb]
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,993
Robert_Wiggins
BWOC Survivor!...So Far!!
|
BWOC Survivor!...So Far!!
Hotshot
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,993
Lindsay, Ontario, Canada
|
Case: Cooler Master Storm Trooper PSU: Ultra X3,1000-Watt MB: Asus Maximus VI Extreme Mem: Corsair Vengeance (2x 8GB), PC3-12800, DDR3-1600MHz, Unbuffered CPU: Intel i7-4770K, OC to 4.427Ghz CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Seidon 240M Liquid CPU Cooler Vid Card: ASUS GTX 980Ti STRIX 6GB OS and Games on separate: Samsung 840 Series 250GB SSD Monitor: Primary ASUS PG27AQ 4k; Secondary Samsung SyncMaster BX2450L Periphs: MS Sidewinder FFB2 Pro, TrackIR 4
|
|
|
#4412703 - 03/25/18 01:48 PM
Re: WOTR news?
[Re: JimBobb]
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,910
dutch
Member
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,910
EURO-zone
|
I do not think OBD have to convince any Woff owner in buying Wotr, we know what we are getting and that it will be excellent in its own way. The Wotr market expension is all about the actual combat flysimmer, that is now flying a payware game like BoX, Clod-blitz, DCS or playing the free to get, Falcon, BoB2, il2-1946 & CFS3 expansion packs. How to get these flyers into Wotr and make them pay $60,-
Last edited by dutch; 03/25/18 02:01 PM.
|
|
|
#4412779 - 03/25/18 10:57 PM
Re: WOTR news?
[Re: Hellshade]
|
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 237
Bronnx
Member
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 237
|
Excuse me, please : which flight sim is this one ? Thank you
It's Microsoft Combat Flight Simulator 3 - but with a lot of the WOFF UE textures ported over. Could you please tell me where / how to start ? Where exactly do i find all those mods, from WOFF, on this subforum ? http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/forumdisplay.php/7-CFS3-General-DiscussionThank you
Intel I7 4790K / 16 GB DDR3 / Samsung SSD 850 EVO 500 GB / Gigabyte GA Z97X-UD5H / GTX 1080 / 4K Samsung UE55KS7500 / TrackIR 5 / X55 Saitek
|
|
|
#4412812 - 03/26/18 10:22 AM
Re: WOTR news?
[Re: dutch]
|
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 616
JimBobb
Member
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 616
|
. How to get these flyers into Wotr and make them pay $60,-
I would pay 120 $ if I could get this on GOG or Steam, always loosing my DVDs and download links expire from avangate ! all other flight sims (il 1946, clod, BOX , DCS) are on steam also, just sayin.
|
|
|
#4412913 - 03/26/18 06:16 PM
Re: WOTR news?
[Re: JimBobb]
|
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 237
Bronnx
Member
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 237
|
Nobody can help me, guys? I already opened an account on this forum, but i can't post anything, yet
Intel I7 4790K / 16 GB DDR3 / Samsung SSD 850 EVO 500 GB / Gigabyte GA Z97X-UD5H / GTX 1080 / 4K Samsung UE55KS7500 / TrackIR 5 / X55 Saitek
|
|
|
|
|