Mr Rawlings: The laws hold Individuals Responsible for their Acts. For example, A neighbor steals a cow. U dont get arrested for it. The individual that committed the crime does. Even Aristotle back in 384-322 BCE wrote that an individual is responsible for his action. Our current laws also reflect that ethic. Mr Baldwin pointed the gun, pulled the trigger and a person lost their life with another hurt. In this case I think will be just a tragic accident, According to reports of the Safety requirements for film productions The prop master should be the last person to handle the weapon . In this case , the Assistant director took the firearm off a table The new inexperience prop master/ armorer was in the area. ( If Real it should have been in a locked box ) assuming it was clear and gave it to the actor saying it was cold ( meaning ok to use ) Mr Baldwin then used it. ( Re- ported ) If The Problem here is Safety procedures/ Firearm Training were not followed or intentionally dis regarded for what ever reasons. Added to, I doubt if any time or money were spent on Gun Handling for the Actor because he would have followed Nixer's advice which is the same as an Ex FBI Officers on the News. In summation, The actor is at fault in lack of safety training or common sense around deadly weapons causing Death and injury. He is listed as a Producer who are among those that coordinates , , Oversees Safety on a Film production which may explain all the problems reported and turning a blind eye ? I agree the Asst Director was Negligent and just dumb for assuming a gun on a a table was Safe then giving it to an actor ., But Mr Baldwin pointed the gun took a life and caused injury and He helped to create the environment for the tragedy as a producer he allowed his Production Company to be negligent in common sense Safety Procedures with no supervision for the Armorer when 2 accidental discharges occurred days before As reported to the police and News. There is a chance that Mr. Baldwin will be charged with Manslaughter due to Negligent s. On the Money side, Wrongful Death is the beginning The inexperienced Armorer ? The assistant Director ?

And what if ? a disgruntled employee slipped to the table and inserted the shell t that the armorer removed after the shot ?

Ref to John Wick films: I also would like to see behind scenes of his Gun Ballet's They truly changed gun handling in films

I had a roommate in 1995 who had a lot of guns. Grew up with this guy. Not a dumb person. He stored his rifles in a gun safe. He only had rifles, no handguns. Usually a proper gun safe kind of makes you think the person is responsible enough?

He blasted a round one night right in our kitchen while doing whatever he was doing with the rifle. In a 2 bedroom apartment. I was standing 5 feet away. The bullet went straight through the wall to the outside. We never found any trace of either the bullet or a second impact point.

He said (with extremely wide open eyes) "I don't know why it went off!".

I replied "Because first the gun was LOADED, then you somehow DEPRESSED THE TRIGGER".

Ready for a kicker? This was the second time this happened - the first was before he lived with me, there was this hole in a dresser he had from it. I actually knew of that incident before we co-habitated, but it'd been a few years back and I figured he wouldn't do that twice (again I will say this guy wasn't someone I considered stupid).

Another kicker? This guy had a third incident a few years later - I wasn't living with him then.

But hey, DRIVING is a privilege and not a right!

That gun story reminds me of a train accident tale.

You would imagine that it would be nearly impossible for a train to hit a car, right? After all, the train is big, loud, and impossible to not notice. However, they occasionally hit cars primarily because the locals grow so accustomed to their noise and presence that they simply tune them out.

I reckon the same happens with guns and their associated safety protocols.

It's not that simple.

For some scenes (especially for a western like here, front of revolver closeups, loading a gun from your belt ammo) you'll need cartridges with a projectile in them. Usually those are empty cases with no powder. How should an actor check if it's a dud round or a live round?

That's btw half of the story how Brandon Lee died on set.

Yeah, I guess you could use fired primers or holes in the case side to mark them as safe. And expect an actor to check every round?
For some scenes again this might be visible to the audience, so modified cases might spoil the camera shot/angle.

Also, how should an actor check if you hand him a magazine full of blanks (or a Henry/Wichester...), to make sure there isn't a live round in the stack somewhere?

The real question is how a live round made it onto set to begin with. My assumption would be they needed dud rounds, and one wasn't modified.

Good post RSC.

If you listen the western legal mindset, he is still responsible for the unintentional murder of a human being. He should have test the gun before to use it, to be sure there was not a real bullet inside. He would be a punishment a little bit soft than in a case where he did intentionally but it is still a punishment.

This is a very strange story. Some people told me the gun was used to shoot for fun the day before or a couple of hours before to start working by a person of the staff and they forgot to remove the real bullets.

If this is true...

Anyway, a very strange story!

Thanks OG. Coming from you, for a non-gun-owner like me (too many legal fees and complications I can't be bothered with currently) that feels like being knighted.

It does seem to me to be a reasonable theory.

However, if it's true they were using the gun for fun plinking the day before, and then brought it onto the set someone should be strung up by their balls or equivalent female parts.

Also wondered if it might make sense to partially block the barrel on film guns. But I guess the risk of injury from the ensuing handgrenade (in case of a live round mixed in) isn't much better than the chance to not hit someone with the bullet.

I don't know if Hollywood productions make regular use of partially obstructed barrels, or not. I could see the use of such barrels having their own challenges / issues.

A "blank" round (one that has primer & powder, but no bullet) still has to have something in front of the powder to keep it contained in the cartridge... a cardboard / plastic / paper / thin wax barrier, or even the cartridge walls folded in. So you end up with the potential for that engineered partial obstruction to gather more material and become much more obstructed... which can lead to bad things happening.

The armorer has supposedly said that she wasn't sure she was ready for that job. She is Thell Reed's daughter, and one would think she would be experienced enough to know her way around firearms & firearms safety. That doesn't mean she had enough experience on Hollywood production practices though, which may be where her supposed sense of insufficient preparedness stems from.

It has been reported that the Assistant Director grabbed the gun off of a table, announced it was a cold gun, and handed it to Baldwin. I'd like to know why he felt justified in proclaiming it was a cold gun, etc. Did the armorer tell him that, or did he assume it? Or, as seems unlikely, was something nefarious going on?

Shoestring budget with cost cutting leading to shortcuts seems to be the likely culprit at this point. Cutting corners is frequently the cause of mishaps.

Luv reading these posts so much information and input.

If the stories are true of Plinking the night before then they must be real Guns using Blanks or capable of firing Real Ammo. The Armorer/ Prop master who I believe is required to keep them locked up and giving each weapon a final check before allowing use made a serious mistake and my well be charged / sued In addition to Mr Baldwin's production Company for not following or supervising the In experienced Armorer after Malfunction of guns were made.

Some Re Inactors approach the safety problems of Western style weapons in their Public Shoot Outs by Not aiming at a person, dummy ammo or ammo with out a primer or power in Belts for Looks, One person to load/ check guns and blank cartridges. and following all required Industry Safety Rules. Another way is the Rules of the Cowboy Action Shooting which is a closed Range setup Guns are Supervised when loading or unloading and everyone at the location is a Safety Officer that can stop the routine at any time when seeing rules not followed by anyone. No Free Passes.

https://youtu.be/q3pUgNFQpZs

https://youtu.be/QZqn1V05UoQ

Uhm, interesting...

This character is a bit complex

Crane isn't known for making politically correct memes.

lol

RSColonel, you do me too much honor.

Just when I thought this story couldn't get stranger.

According to the 911 call by the Script Girl ( the Transcript shown on the News. ) She said the Blank Blank " Asst Director is yelling and blaming me for not checking the Gun " Other people stated that The Asst Director gave the Gun and told the Actor It was cold ( safe to fire)
Unbelievable ! Mr Baldwin's Company allowed this crew Guns to play with ? Another Tid Bit that came out : Live Bullets were on the set. ! Who, what, and, why are still unknown. I think the Assistant Director should be De-Nutted.For not checking and Assuming the gun was unloaded. Bottom Line : this Production Company was not concerned with Safety.


Just a Guess : Someone / some ones. had the gun last and went Plinking with live Ammo and never emptied the gun. or maybe it had a misfire so thought it didn't go bang so just leave it inside the weapon Returned it to the Armorer's location. ( thinking she will check it } Next day during production, the armorer placed the guns on a table ( not checking the fire arms or assuming that they were empty the last time or maybe busy doing something else The Asst Director comes along Assumes they have been checked and passes a loaded firearm to the Actor telling him it was cold . A totally preventable tragedy occurs then the Asst Director Blames the Script Girl for his actions. ( she did the right thing during that sad time period Clearly Upset by what happen and being yelled at She Called 911 for Help }

From the reading I've done, I see normal movie filming using weapons (real, fake, etc) has very reasonable "film industry standard" procedures to follow. Its a "safety first" meme.

They are actually easy to accomplish (my "a child can do it" meme). Often a double check is required -- i.e. the person who hands the gun to the actor must check just before handing it over -- even though it should have been checked previously that day.

Some individuals "responsible" for doing this, get tired of following all the procedures every day all the time (they are simple, quick, repetitive, boring procedures -- but, part of the job). Per statements by people involved, one of the responsible individuals on this film was known to be of that "irresponsible" type.

Some of his crew said, Alec was one of those responsible to check the guns before their use

https://rumble.com/vo847o-alec-bald...-checking-gun-rust-crew-member-says.html

I'm not an expert on Hollywood film labor laws but since he's one of the producers for the film they may have a point. I guess we'll see how this all pans out.

Methinks this Gutierrez-Reed wench should have stuck to making Antifa porn.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...illed-cinematographer-pictured-home.html