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#4479524 - 06/22/19 08:05 PM Fokker ace strategy  
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Simes Offline
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I've been doing some research into the early German aces, who predominantly flew the Fokker Eindeckers from mid 1915 through to mid to late 1916.

All of them scored 90 to 95% of their kills before mid 1916 against enemy two seaters, very few victories against single seat fighters were registered. Despite the large and ever growing French and RFC fighter numbers in the air from the start of 1916.

From mid 1916 there are more and more recorded victories against Nieuports and DH2s (but far more Fokker losses too).

Clearly therefore, the early German pilots who lasted long enough to become aces, did so by avoiding fights against the French and RFC fighters if at all possible. However by mid 1916 it was virtually impossible to avoid enemy fighters and very hard to get away from them due to the performance gap between the Eindeckers and the entente fighters.

I think this would also have to be the tactic to adopt flying Eindeckers in WOFF, unless you want a very short and abrupt career indeed explode


"A great deal of an aeroplane could be holed without affecting its ability to fly. Wings and fuselage could be—and often were—pierced in 50 places, missing the occupants by inches (blissfully unaware of how close it had come until they returned to base). Then the sailmaker would carefully cover each hole with a square inch of Irish linen frayed at the edges and with a brushful of dope make our aircraft 'serviceable' again within an hour." Cecil Lewis
#4479533 - 06/22/19 08:42 PM Re: Fokker ace strategy [Re: Simes]  
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Polovski Online content
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Yes very good idea, go for the unarmed or weak armed 2 seaters and avoid fighters sounds like a good way to try to stay alive.


Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#4479537 - 06/22/19 09:29 PM Re: Fokker ace strategy [Re: Simes]  
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That is what Iron Maiden sing: "Run to the hills, run for your lives..." smile

Last edited by JJJ65; 06/22/19 09:31 PM.
#4479545 - 06/22/19 11:27 PM Re: Fokker ace strategy [Re: Simes]  
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Originally Posted by Simes
I've been doing some research into the early German aces, who predominantly flew the Fokker Eindeckers from mid 1915 through to mid to late 1916.

All of them scored 90 to 95% of their kills before mid 1916 against enemy two seaters, very few victories against single seat fighters were registered. Despite the large and ever growing French and RFC fighter numbers in the air from the start of 1916.

From mid 1916 there are more and more recorded victories against Nieuports and DH2s (but far more Fokker losses too).

Clearly therefore, the early German pilots who lasted long enough to become aces, did so by avoiding fights against the French and RFC fighters if at all possible. However by mid 1916 it was virtually impossible to avoid enemy fighters and very hard to get away from them due to the performance gap between the Eindeckers and the entente fighters.

I think this would also have to be the tactic to adopt flying Eindeckers in WOFF, unless you want a very short and abrupt career indeed explode


Exactly how I'm keeping my pilot going in the Deep Immersion campaign, Simes, but it's tough to completely avoid those Nupes. You should come and join us smile


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4479546 - 06/23/19 12:20 AM Re: Fokker ace strategy [Re: Simes]  
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Pick YOUR fights if possible, and even then, with the Eindecker it can quickly go wrong.

Woff sends our flights mostly to the front lines, when in reality the Hun didn't have to wonder that far to find his enemy.
Thanks to Trenchards "Very" offensive policy the poor RFC sods had to go miles into Hunland. This would make things some what easier
for the Bosch pilots. They could almost certainly avoid scouts and pick off the poor Be2's.

If I was piloting a EIII in campaign I'd forget the assigned mission or alter it with JJJ's mission editor each time.
Avoid the front if possible and should those evil N11+++ or Dh2 show up....err run. I would


make mistakes and learn from them

I5 4440 3.1Ghz, Asrock B85m Pro3, Gtx 1060 3GB
#4479547 - 06/23/19 12:39 AM Re: Fokker ace strategy [Re: lederhosen]  
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Originally Posted by lederhosen
Pick YOUR fights if possible, and even then, with the Eindecker it can quickly go wrong.

Woff sends our flights mostly to the front lines, when in reality the Hun didn't have to wonder that far to find his enemy.
Thanks to Trenchards "Very" offensive policy the poor RFC sods had to go miles into Hunland. This would make things some what easier
for the Bosch pilots. They could almost certainly avoid scouts and pick off the poor Be2's.

If I was piloting a EIII in campaign I'd forget the assigned mission or alter it with JJJ's mission editor each time.
Avoid the front if possible and should those evil N11+++ or Dh2 show up....err run. I would


Completely agree! And even in an EIV, I run (well,as you know, my pilot Konrad's a complete coward).


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4479548 - 06/23/19 12:40 AM Re: Fokker ace strategy [Re: Simes]  
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...and isn't this why WOFF is so darned cool? You have to think and act historically to survive!


I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4479624 - 06/23/19 05:56 PM Re: Fokker ace strategy [Re: HarryH]  
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Simes Offline
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Originally Posted by HarryH
Exactly how I'm keeping my pilot going in the Deep Immersion campaign, Simes, but it's tough to completely avoid those Nupes. You should come and join us smile


It is tough as even at the end of 1915 there seems to be a lot of them. The Moranes aren't easy either.

Thanks for the invite, I've had a look at the DiD stuff on here and I may well have a go soon. At the moment I'm still learning ropes (and pulleys and levers) ....as they say.

I've just started a new career flying Eindeckers in December 1915 and I intend to put all this advice and learning to the test. I'll have to if I'm going to survive the 7/8 months before I'm likely to fly anything else dizzy

I've decided it's too easy to jump straight into Alb's....plus....as I see it...I'm wasting having 1915 and early 1916 available to fly through....the secret is to become good enough to survive it....rather than miss it all together and join in September 1916.


"A great deal of an aeroplane could be holed without affecting its ability to fly. Wings and fuselage could be—and often were—pierced in 50 places, missing the occupants by inches (blissfully unaware of how close it had come until they returned to base). Then the sailmaker would carefully cover each hole with a square inch of Irish linen frayed at the edges and with a brushful of dope make our aircraft 'serviceable' again within an hour." Cecil Lewis
#4479660 - 06/23/19 10:17 PM Re: Fokker ace strategy [Re: Simes]  
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Sims’s, every new pilot at the front was learning the ropes. You would fit right in. For myself, there is no other way to really get into a pilot. Hope we see you there soon.


Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear or a fool from either end.
BOC Member since....I can't remember!
#4479683 - 06/24/19 02:48 AM Re: Fokker ace strategy [Re: Simes]  
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OvStachel Offline
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Your main objective/mission is to kill the recon/observation/bomber craft. Once that's accomplished, you're wasting time, ammo and lives sticking around to mess with their air cover.

Same tactics used today. Kill the threat... expedite Fox Oscar!!

Last edited by OvStachel; 06/24/19 02:48 AM.

The Black Baron of Boistrancourt returns!!

I'd rather die fighting, than live for nothing. - Gen. G.S. Patton
#4479702 - 06/24/19 08:37 AM Re: Fokker ace strategy [Re: Simes]  
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jeanba Offline
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Originally Posted by Simes
I've been doing some research into the early German aces, who predominantly flew the Fokker Eindeckers from mid 1915 through to mid to late 1916.

All of them scored 90 to 95% of their kills before mid 1916 against enemy two seaters, very few victories against single seat fighters were registered. Despite the large and ever growing French and RFC fighter numbers in the air from the start of 1916.

From mid 1916 there are more and more recorded victories against Nieuports and DH2s (but far more Fokker losses too).

Clearly therefore, the early German pilots who lasted long enough to become aces, did so by avoiding fights against the French and RFC fighters if at all possible. However by mid 1916 it was virtually impossible to avoid enemy fighters and very hard to get away from them due to the performance gap between the Eindeckers and the entente fighters.

I think this would also have to be the tactic to adopt flying Eindeckers in WOFF, unless you want a very short and abrupt career indeed explode

The first point was that the war was not won by shooting down enemy scouts but by preventing ennemy recon, arty spotters and to a lesser extent bombers to do their job.
Therefore it was logical that they went for 2-seaters.
This was the same for french pilots too.
But it was not that easy to shoot down a 2-seater: Over Verdun, in a Fokker vs french 2-seater (Caudron G4 / Farman ...) combat : the ratio was between 2:1 to 1.5/1 in favor of the Fokker. So the Fokker had an obvious advantage, but it was not one-sided.
The difference is that starting in 1916, the concept of "air superiority" (ie : sweeping the sky from all enemies aircraft) was maturing so scouts fought each others at nearly every opportunity.

Another point is that the french conducted bombing daylight bombing missions with a high number of slow, lowly defended Voisin bombers, giving lot of opportunities for german pilots to become aces. They stopped in middle 1916 => less targets !

Last edited by jeanba; 06/24/19 08:57 PM.
#4479778 - 06/24/19 08:25 PM Re: Fokker ace strategy [Re: jeanba]  
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HarryH Online content
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Really good point re Voisins, Jeanba. It was great when OBD added Caudrons to the SIM, but Eindeckers still need more fodder to graze on to make a career more realistic smile

Last edited by HarryH; 06/24/19 08:25 PM.

I'm "Stutter Free" At Last! God bless WOFF, and all who fly with her!
#4479786 - 06/24/19 09:10 PM Re: Fokker ace strategy [Re: HarryH]  
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Originally Posted by HarryH
Really good point re Voisins, Jeanba. It was great when OBD added Caudrons to the SIM, but Eindeckers still need more fodder to graze on to make a career more realistic smile

The French were not very impressed by the Fokker performances (though they were interested by its synchronized armament) and german losses on french fronts were basically equivalent to french losses,
Even the Voisin losses / sortie was not very high (there was simply more sorties) and most of them were shot down by 2-seaters anyway

#4479856 - 06/25/19 06:19 AM Re: Fokker ace strategy [Re: jeanba]  
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Simes Offline
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Originally Posted by jeanba

The French were not very impressed by the Fokker performances (though they were interested by its synchronized armament) and german losses on french fronts were basically equivalent to french losses,
Even the Voisin losses / sortie was not very high (there was simply more sorties) and most of them were shot down by 2-seaters anyway

Absolutely, the majority of Fokker victories were scored by a handful of clearly very skilled pilots, but even these were dwindled down by attrition.....von Crailsheim, Eduard Böhme.....Immelmann. By early/mid 1916 it can't have been much fun getting entangled with aircraft 10/15mph faster than you...and with a much better rate of climb...no matter how skilled you were.

It's certainly a challenge flying Eindeckers, as I'm finding out dizzy

I agree with HarryH too, we could do with a few more two seaters on all sides to fill the sky up a bit.


"A great deal of an aeroplane could be holed without affecting its ability to fly. Wings and fuselage could be—and often were—pierced in 50 places, missing the occupants by inches (blissfully unaware of how close it had come until they returned to base). Then the sailmaker would carefully cover each hole with a square inch of Irish linen frayed at the edges and with a brushful of dope make our aircraft 'serviceable' again within an hour." Cecil Lewis
#4479862 - 06/25/19 07:35 AM Re: Fokker ace strategy [Re: Simes]  
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Originally Posted by Simes


I agree with HarryH too, we could do with a few more two seaters on all sides to fill the sky up a bit.

I love flying 2-seaters.
I have more fun with the aviatik CI than with the Fokker EIII.
I only wish there were a larger variety of missions (there were for OFF, but some mods are not compatible with WOFF:UE).

#4479865 - 06/25/19 09:14 AM Re: Fokker ace strategy [Re: jeanba]  
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JJJ65 Offline
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Originally Posted by jeanba
Originally Posted by Simes


I agree with HarryH too, we could do with a few more two seaters on all sides to fill the sky up a bit.

I love flying 2-seaters.
I have more fun with the aviatik CI than with the Fokker EIII.
I only wish there were a larger variety of missions (there were for OFF, but some mods are not compatible with WOFF:UE).

+1
Can you send me any OFF mod incomaptible with WOFF:UE? I will try to look into it and make it compatible.

#4479869 - 06/25/19 09:47 AM Re: Fokker ace strategy [Re: Simes]  
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I had problems with Bletchley's mission Types and of course when mixing Additionnal Bombner Traget's to Bltchley's misison types
This is a pity because we can either add new recon missions or new bomber targets, but "not both"

#4479884 - 06/25/19 11:10 AM Re: Fokker ace strategy [Re: Simes]  
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Would you like to combine Bletchley's mission Types and Additional Bomber Targets? That is possible, but the probability of bombardment missions will be significantly decreased.

#4479905 - 06/25/19 01:44 PM Re: Fokker ace strategy [Re: JJJ65]  
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I tried a combination of both for early war, when 2-seaters mainly flew recon + Arty spotting, and few bombing and this was ok, excpet I had troubles when a bombing mission was generated

Indeed, the problem is that there should be a distinction between Recon, Arty spotting and bomber units as in reality, I don't know if it exists in the game.
For instance, most french 2-seater units with 1?? numbers (ex : Br111) were bomber units. Two digits were usually recon unit (C46), and 2?? "highly specialized units" or units sent to other fronts.

Last edited by jeanba; 06/25/19 01:45 PM.
#4481635 - 07/05/19 07:55 PM Re: Fokker ace strategy [Re: Simes]  
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here are a few suggestions:

ignore your assigned flight plan and fly as high as you practically can. the Fokker isn't fast enough to overtake most of it's targets w/o a pretty good altitude advantage.

before you get into a fight decide if you're going for a mission kill or confirmed victories. if I already know that there's almost no likelihood of getting confirmed victories-- I tend to use less ammo simply forcing the Allied pilots to land behind German lines and become POWs. the other benefit of thinking in terms of mission kills is that if I'm being more cautious, using less ammo, then I will also be more likely to have ammo if I run into somebody else late in the flight that I'm not expecting. if you've got plenty of wingmen, and you know that they'll probably stay close, then you can take the luxury of trying to go for confirmed victories.

try to avoid chasing planes towards enemy lines. it's better to chase them when they're heading deeper into German territory. always try to herd your intended victims and keep them over German lines as long as you can.

the Fokker E.IV is a sluggish old dog of a plane. the extra firepower and marginal speed advantage it has over the E.III is only good at lower altitudes. the higher you fly, the more you'll wish you were flying a Fokker E.III instead. if the E.III takes a graceful bow like an opera singer while you're turning than the E.IV drops like an anchor-- not a big fan of this plane. I might have liked it if it had three machine guns... because then the miserable performance might -sort of- be worth it. but since it only has two guns... it's a sad, wretched little machine to fight in.

in either case, though, use your rudder to correct your aim. try to avoid banking - as the wing warping isn't very responsive.

I try not to attack unless I can secure the element of complete surprise. it's not too unusual for me to fly at x2 or x4 time acceleration and stalk an intended victim for as long as 10 minutes to get into my desired position. it usually involves being above them, then diving quickly into their blind spot. if I can get as close as 50 yards I will do that.

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