Huh! "Four or five times" may have been an exaggeration, but I distinctly remember them feeling farther apart. Maybe it has to do with the fact that I can't get far enough away from my pedals at my desk as I was in the real airplane. [briefly scoots back out of reach of joystick] Nope, still feels wrong ... huh.

And I know for a fact that the P-47, for example, did have much wider-spaced pedals than the CH ones, because I specifically measured the spacing when I sat in a real P-47 (on the ground, sadly). http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:4TqZS...t21.jpg&t=1



What do you mean?

Update: I think I've figured out why I perceived the Cessna pedals to be farther apart; the pedals themselves are wider, and unlike the CH Pedals they do not have "grooves" forcing your feet into a specific position, so you can rest your feet on the outside of the pedals in the Cessna. Thus my feet were indeed farther apart on the Cessna's pedals than I can get on the CH Pedals, in addition to me being farther away.

I use a Cougar with Hall sensors, CH pedals and Throttle Quadrant. Many people complain about the stiffness of the Cougar but I've used them since they came out and it is "normal" for me. I do end up with a sore wrist after flying with my squad in our little online war we do but that's because of an old martial arts injury where I ended up destroying the tendons stabilizing my scaphoid and lunate bones of my wrist and as I've gotten older they just kind of move on their own grinding against each other and what ever other nerves are around... But I could never go back to the old plastic sticks I used to use before the cougar as they just feel too "flimsy" to me now. I'm toying with the idea of buying the new Warthog HOTAS once it has been out for awhile and can read user's reviews/critiques. Just don't tell my wife how much they cost.

The Cessna pedal's pedal might be a inch wider or so, but not much. I can't put my feet in the grooves on the CH ones if I have shoes on, but I can on the Cessna even wearing my cowboy boots. (Can't fly the Pipers in my boots) The Cessna pedals do have some tabs that stick out on the sides at the bottom to keep your feet from slipping off of them. You're feet are pretty much on them, or well, you don't really have anywhere else your feet can be. It's pretty tight down there.

Most larger planes, single seat planes, and tandem seat planes will have pedals spaced further apart. But in a small plane with side by side seating they have to put the pedals very close together. Space is at a premium.

Yes in a 150/152 you sit really flat and have your legs stretched out pretty far, but that also depends on the airplane. I would say that in a Cessna 172 I have about the same leg bend as in my computer chair. In a Citation V I have my legs bent even more than in my chair. They are really cramped in the cockpit... Their pedals are wider, but bigger airplane.

If you notice in ROF the planes don't even have rudder pedals. They have a rudder bar. It's basically just a plank of wood that's hinged in the middle.

What I was talking about when I said sit in the middle and use the outside pedals. If you're too fat to fit in one seat, you can fly a side by side two seater by sitting on both seats and putting your feet on the two outer pedals. Which makes them work correctly and gives room for a rather wide load. I've seen it done...

Yep, I talked myself into the x-65f this summer. Works brilliantly for me. I had the common concerns about the total lack of movement and axis bleed, but I find control is every bit as good as with previous sticks I've used. I do have to use a response curve for pitch, but that was true with my last joystick and Il-2 as well.

For me, the lack of movement was the selling point. I have my steering wheel and flight controls all lumped together in one place and there is no room to accommodate much, if any, throw on the joystick without it bumping into the seat, the wheel, the table etc. It wasn't cheap, but it is perfect for my setup, and it seems to be built like a tank - so hopefully won't be spending anything on controllers for several years to come. Used like this it doubles well as a button box for racing sims too. Quite pleased so far.

By "grooves" I mean the things that are meant to hold your feet in place. I can't move my feet from side to side on the CH pedals, because the "grooves" stop me, but I could move my feet from side to side in a real Cessna. That let me put my feet farther apart.



Perhaps, but you are almost certainly not forced to sit as close to your gaming pedals as I am. My desk sucks, and it's right up against a wall, and there's not much I can do about any of it. In order to be far enough from my pedals that it's comfortable and easy to use them (like in a real airplane), I'd have to be sitting too far from my desk to reach my joystick. (Well, technically, I could reach it, but holding that position for a while would put serious strain on my upper body.)

http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/9517/pedalpos.gif (Image is not exact.)

In position 1, I am comfortable over a long period of time. Arm position is good, leg position is good. In position 2, I am uncomfortable over a long period of time. Arm position is good, leg position is poor. In position 3, I am extremely uncomfortable over a long period of time. Arm position is terrible, leg position is good. Position 1 isn't an option for me because of my desk and such, so I use position 2 instead of position 3. I suppose that theoretically there could be a position 4 which has terrible arm position and bad leg position, but I can't imagine a situation where that'd be necessary.

I started with some Logitech joystick that didn't even had a hat. Moved quickly to a Logitech with FFB, but the deadzone in the middle was so bad that i couldn't use it. After some time, i bought a Saitek Evo (no FFB) which was the first i liked because it had better precision than the previous ones, and was easy to move in any direction. After some time, i saw in a local store a HOTAS Cougar whose price went lower and lower as nobody bought it, so ... i bought it. Was impressed with its looks and software, but didn't like how it moved. Added U2Nxt and Hall Sensor mods, finally i could really fly it.

Yet, i heard that FFB was advantageous with RoF, so after another year i bought from eBay a MS FFB, and i can say it's great; great; great.

I was thinking to sell my modded Cougar, but! i talked with a friend who has some equipment and i intend in the short term to make a prolongation shaft for the handle, and in the long term, maybe, to make another handle - one which mimics a Sopwith Camel stick.

( Ideally i'd like a floor-mounted, long shaft stick with FFB, but this would be too expensive. Anyway i could trade my modded u2nxt+hall-sensors Cougar for a precise long shaft stick (without FFB). )

Anyway the MS FFB2 is great, those of you who have it, use it!

HOTAS Cougar with the Uber NxT (HALL sensors) gimbal mod, corrected button positions on the stick and throttle and i even made the throttle shaft "tougher/stronger" by filling out the gaps with epoxy and painting it black. F-16 SIMPED pedals and a Saitek quadrant to make the package complete. Really nice flying. Going to update my "pit" with the Warthog, which will degrade my Cougar stick to a simple relay box but hey..we call it "progress" heh?

Ok, I have a almost related question but would it be possible to program the Saitek instrument panels to work with ROF or would they have to put in some code for ROF to output instrument values?

I would love to pick up a few of those and set up a altimeter and rpm gage set. The rest of the instruments I can look for in game but those two are the most used to say the least and then I could dump out my 2d instruments off the screen.

CH Fighterstick and Pro Pedals. ON the laptop I occasionally use a MSFFPro but it has been getting squirrely lately so I may end up plugging in my Fighterstick when I fly (just autorudder the thing). I have a throttle quadrant from CH that I don't use with the game, the extra axes would just confuse me.

Logitech Wingman Force Feedback - there was a sale where they were 90% off - so I bought a few. It is too bad they are so twitchy (makes DCS:BS unusable).

I also had an X-52 Pro, but the rudder started giving all values as hard left. I tried disassembling it but I didn't manage to get far enough (anyone know of a manual on who to strip down and rebuild this stick?)

Thanks for the stick curve links. I got the pitch calmed down now. I also removed the springs from the stick like I have others in the past. I find no tension is best for me and takes away all the forward pressure these kites require as there is no stick center now so you just fly the stick where you need it.

That's why I like my stock X-52, its weak spring will precisely center it and I never have to fight it.

I leave a touch of tailheaviness in as a reminder that these machines tended to be that way, but wouldn't want to have any more than barely noticeable forward pressure needed. Some have opined that using anything but stock, unmodified curves is somehow cheating or unrealistic, but I can't see that. When I used to fly in the 3-D world, if a plane was going in for maintenance I'd send some notes along so the riggers could tweak it to my liking.

The same goes even for stuff like damping sensitivity around a center as in yaw. In RL you only got one flavor of input, and over time as you became more intimate with your plane your control pressures applied would become more subtle. Using the curve is just a digital way to implement this since any PC peripheral device isn't going to ever be the same as a physical linkage...it's a pretty nice way to approximate this learned subtlety of input, I think, and a satisfactory compromise for the differences between the virtual and real interface.

[MF] Gunloon

X52Pro FTW.

Say, Dart, I've read the ad hype, but what do you think makes the Pro better? The thought's idly occurred to me to up mine from stock to Pro. The layout suits me as well as any device out there can, so if the Pro's that much better I'd give some serious consideration to switching at some point. A real user's opinion carries a lot more weight with me than an ad writer's description

[MF] Gunloon

Gunloon I took all the springs out including the twist handle one. It was hard to get used to at first but it really feels more like flying. Liberate yourself, get an old ms pro from Goodwill for 5 or 10 bucks and take all the springs out, give it a try.

When I fly my buddies 150 there are no springs in the rudder pedals and yoke, you just fly the plane, not the controller. You dont have to be concerned about forward pressure, you just set the stick where it flys best. I started with the SE5 and now can reaally haul around the Dr1 with no problems. No springs,,,do it.

Also the Dr1 elevator set to fly level is too much down extension. I am not sure how the real one was set for level but I have flown many large RC versions of this plane and did not need that much down force or trim.

Freedom 2.4
Dont know if its good or not but i know i am not very good:)so i need time.

I just started using my old MS SW FFB2 with my G940 pedals and throttle.

I like the G940 set. Got it over a year ago to replace my SW FFB2 when it was acting up. I immediately thought the G940 improved my flying mostly because of the pedals and throttle and so many more buttons.

Last week I got out the old SW and hooked it up because I'd read about lengthening the handle for smoother control. It didn't act broken any more so I started setting it up. Had to save a MSSWFFB2.MAP file because it took the 0 position in the device order. Meant resetting a lot of buttons and axes, have only done the main ones so far. Still playing with adjusting the forces to taste.

Bottom Line - I already think the SW joystick makes my flying smoother and livelier than ever in combo with the G940 pedals and throttle.

P.S. For liveliness I also have my Logitec X-540 sub-woofer bungeed to the bottom of my chair seat which IMHO is where you should feel most of the rumble of the engine and the vibration of the guns.

I picked up a practically new MS SW FF2 stick for $30, +15 shipping (to Hawaii on a slow boat from the midwest which took over a month). It was on ebay.
Dont suffer with a stick if you dont have to...watch for a good deal on another

A first series MS Force Feedback Pro (gameport). I somehow got it to work in Win7/32, but sadly without the force feedback.

Idiot -> me, for double posting on two separate months...