Well, I'm sad to say it, but I've come to the end of my time on EECH.

Over the last few weeks, I've been trying to get back into working on this game and fixing what I can. I've been trying to get some enthusiasm going with my roadmap and wishlist posts, to try and set out some sort of a plan that modders could work on.

The unexpected return of FireBird made me hopeful that some of that plan could be worked on, and with thealx also mentioning he might be coming back to work on some things, also made me hopeful that there would be some active development again. I was hoping that we could agree to work on some things together to really move this sim forward.

However, I've had a PM chat with FireBird and thealx this evening about the future of EE development, and it's brought me to this decision. It seems there's no appetite amongst those that have the most knowledge of the code, to agree a future direction and work together on some things. FireBird especially seems unhelpul in the replies, even going so far as to belittle my abilities and enthusiasm. It seems individual working is the way to go. Good luck to FireBird with the Ogre work. It seemed the best way to modernise this sim, and I was willing to help on this. But help doesn't seem very wanted.

So I'm off.

You might say it's throwing the dummies from the pram, maybe it is. But I've spent too much time on this game, and come to the realisation that it's pointless really. I've got a few other personal web based projects I want to work on, and have been putting them off for some time to work on EECH.

Everything I've worked on so far for the Havoc gauges fix is checked in to the develop_1_16_1_havoc_instruments branch in the codebase.

My Blackhawk cockpit work is also checked in under 2 separate branches. I'll gather together the files for that and check them in, or upload them somewhere over the next week or so. If someone wants to pick that up and work on it, then feel free. If you want a list of what was unfinished, then PM me.

Good luck with whatever you end up doing with EECH. Maybe I'll come back to it at some point in the future, as a player rather than a modder.

It's _very_ impolite to publish _private_ messages without correspondent's agreement.

"there's no appetite" was the reason for many TITANS to leave the project in our past. But they didn't publish private messages anyway.

That's not cool, I really hope you are not trying to make someone responsible for your leaving. Good luck with your personal projects anyway.

I'm not blaming any one person for my decision. The decision not to continue working on this is solely mine. I'm just highlighting the attitudes expressed that made me come to this decision.


My experience of building software in my professional life, is working in teams of developers, testers, and analysts that work collaboratively towards a common goal. I suppose I naively thought that those same principles could be used here.

You are the one who decides how you spend your time. I know how it feels when you have spent so much time on something, and that in the end all momentum is lost...
While work still needs to be done, as a newbie, I can assure you that the last EECH releases are gorgeous! Many commercial, payware addons (for FSX for instance) are much buggier than EECH.
Anyway, we won't have had much time to know each other, but good luck with your new endeavours. Thank you for what you have done!

I fully agree with messyhead here!

It's not what you say, but how you say it. No-one wants to be a boss here and I think messyhead also never want's to be it, but if this project should come to a useable state we have to follow a roadmap.

It's not very pleasant to treat others like fools even if you have more experience in coding. No-one wants to grab Allmods as his project, but we have to make a plan to get things finished, because at the moment the simulation isn't really useable. There are to many bugs and unfinished content in it and if we want players to come to Allmods it should have a playable state for sure.

This is only possible with a plan, otherwise it will go on like the last years. Everyone makes something he has the desire for but nothing ever gets finished and we will never see a useable simulation like BMS is for example.

What is the most important thing in an attack helicopter simulation? The helicopters for sure! It doesn't make sense to think about making the terrain looking nicer or what else, if the helicopters and their cockpits aren't working. That's the first which have to be in a functional state and after this we can make other improvements.

That's what I think about it and I hope that there is a way to work together as a community and not everyone for himself.

Firebird alone spend ~5 years for converting eech to dx9. you must understand him point of view. Without Firebird eech will be dead many years ago.

Maybe,

but that's no reason to be bearish to other guys I think. Don't know what's the reason for his reaction. No-one want's to take Allmods as his own project. He is and ever will be the father of Allmods even so Thealx.

I only had seen that there had no work been done on it for two years now and it still has a lot of errors or unfinished content. As I really love this simulation, for me it wasn't understandable that no-one had worked further on it and so I only tried to get it back to life. My intention was only to get those content which is already in the different versions to one version and maybe bring all of it to a new bugfixed release with some very small improvements like more realistic cockpits for the russian helicopters that weren't upgraded or fixed the last years (MI-28N, KA-50, KA-52).

That's what I still think is the most important. An complete overhaul is a great idea, but we need a functional release in the meantime so that people can play this game. As said an overhaul is an extrem time consumption project and the risk to fail, because the people who work at it have no more time for it, is really high. If this happens and there is no useable bugfixed alternative version available, I think Allmods will going to the graveyard as so many other mods still have done.

If Thealx or Firebird still working in the background at Allmods and don't want that their plans are messed up from people like messyhead or myself, they just have to told us that the project is still under development and they have other plans with it. But I think there have to be some results in a foreseeable future cause otherwise people will loose the interest on it. The bugfixing is the faster way to get results in my opinion and after this nothing is there against a new completely overhauled release maybe something like EECH Allmods 2.0 then.

P.S:

As an example, I want to use Allmods with my homecockpit and have still made a lot of hardware for it (own HOTAS for the helos of EECH, extra consoles etc.), but as I've had the possibility to do a more intense test with 1.16.0 for the first time ( because the past years I had also much work in my RL ) and jumped into the MI-28 pit seeing that there are no more working instruments (only tested 1.15.2 before) I really was very disappointed. Next step was jumping in the KA-50 and what's this, still no working instruments after the upgrade either ! And still dark cockpits you couldn't read any instruments and so on...

Sh... for what I've made all the work for my cockpit to be compatible with Allmods if so much isn't working and no-one cares for it since two years?!?

But I love it and there is also no alternative to it at the moment if you want to fly attack helicopters other than only the KA-50. That's why I started to work on it and after making some small adjustments for myself I was able to do, I thought it would be real nice if the work on this project will come to a new begin to fix the content and make it really useable. So I decided to go to the forum and look for some other guys who are still interested in it.

It's a simulation, not an action game and that's why things have to work as realistic as possible of course. If you just want to jump in a helo and smash tanks or other aircraft with a lot of eyecandy and a impressive terrain there are many other action helicopter sims out there you can fly.

I have no idea what is going on, but I don't like the way how modders was separated on good guys and bad guys.
Conflict started with firebird's attitude. Have someone checked code he pushing? Can you read it? I can't. So when he giving me advice, I am listening and not argue, like it happen in provided conversation.
As for topic - making public discussions about game future is not correct - most of the people can't know game from the inside, and opinions about what is right and what is wrong are completely subjective. Community pushing game forward, but directions should be chosen by someone professional.

Hi Guys,

I'm watching this thread and wondering where this is going to end.

I think messyhead made the mistake of trying to organise the modding of EECH as he would a project at work, which would never work. At work, people are paid to work on stuff they don't particularly want to. On EECH we rely on individual's giving up their time for free.

We also can't expect modders to go back and fix the mistakes or unfinished code of someone else. If they want to, that's great, but it's not their responsibility.

I personally use version 1.15.4 in my pit because that was the last one I am aware of without problems. I'd love to install the latest work, but I'm not confident in it.

I agree that messyhead should not have published a personal message on the forum, it is exactly that PERSONAL.

Viper has been desperately trying to kickstart what he thought was a dying simulation. I must admit it looked that way to me too. Cudos to him for trying.

I would try and help with coding and fixing bugs if I could, but I cannot follow how the sections of the program interact. I've programmed in the past, but these were always linear programs. If the existing modders could explain how the sections interact, that may allow some of us less capable ones to try and fix what's wrong. This is only a suggestion and not me "taking charge".

I'm sure there are others like me out here.

How about we start the discussion again ?

Andy

I was trying to get a community of modders to work together towards some common goals. The mistake I made was assuming that there was a community.

No-one seperates the modders to good and bad guys. In my opinion Firebird is one of the best guys which ever worked at Allmods and we have to thank him for his work alot, but there is also no reason for him to be unkind to other guys, if they make some suggestions to bring Allmods further, specifically as he disappeared for two years from the project. Who should know that he will ever come back again?

Maybe it's a language problem here but it seemed a bit arrogant to me too what he answered and this obtains not only to what messyhead here posted.

There maybe some different assumptions to what is important and what not, but there is no doubt that in an attack helicopter simulation the cockpits and the weapon systems of the helos should work first before thinking about anything else.

It's like building a race-car without a steering wheel and footpedals and then going to work at the race-track for a more enjoyable ride. It doesn't make any sense if the essentials don't work. For this I have not to be a professional to know this.

Maybe the whole cockpits have to be reworked if a new technology for Allmods is used and that's why he is the meaning that it makes no sense to fix anything before now. But as I said before, no-one wants to wait for an completely overhauled Allmods 1.1X.X in the year 202X which most likely never happens if you look at the past two years.

There were two years gone without even the smallest fix after 1.16.0 Fix1. I don't think it is really in an usefull completely playable state, so that no fix was necessary. And now rebuild the whole thing again before making anything really useable!?!

I don't understand this. Maybe for coders it is more important to work at the project and not to have a useable, flyable and enjoyable simulation, but if that's the reason it should be stated as a tech-demo.

Hi Andy,

nice to see you here again.

I think you are right with starting again, but at the moment I'm really angry. I'm the guy who ever want's to get along with everyone but I could not suffer it if someone get's unkind without any reason. Maybe it's also so much disappointing to see what happens if some guys that actually share the same interest and hobby try to work together.

I started this whole thing in the hope we get further with Allmods and maybe become friends in a new great community.

O.k. after thinking about all this a little bit more intense, I also decided to quit my attempt to get Allmods alive again.

I have another project I really want to finish, my homepit. That's all I want to do from the beginning.

I will stay with 1.15.4 and only use the US choppers, cause as Andy mentioned before and what I also always told, I'm thinking that this version is the most advanced at the moment.

Allmods should stay where it belongs and this is in the hands of the professionals. I'm confident looking for further releases or bugfixes.

Allelujah! Cant read 100 times the same bs in every thread.

I don't really think that's called for.

I dont really think public private messages is serious.

@ blackshark

what an intelligent response

Ok. I don't think what I posted was particularly bad. It could have been a conversation carried out in the forum, and the response would have been the same.

Your post above is a direct attack on a forum member. It's not the first time recently that it's happened.

I'm going to lock this thread now, and ask another moderator to look at your post, and what I posted. If they see anything to be out of order, I'll apologise for it.