I really hate constantly hearing this argument from people.

true - people are complaining because they are not happy.

You should browse some other game forums to see what complaining really is, we are simply exchanging points of view about pricing, quality and product expectations.

This particular developer wont close down because of us posting our points of view.

$10, how about $19.99 ??? that is a fair price for a flyable add on.

most developers work full time - that is the norm rather than not, I know a few that work part time, usually they do that as a hobby.

I hear you. DCS, and every single module for it are all products. The devs aren't our buddies who are doing us a massive favour or anything, way too many people seem to have that mindset.

That's a moot argument. ED aren't part-time. We all have jobs and have various areas of expertise. ED's expertise is the development of flight simulators so there is no excuse for them to continually fail, not meet the timeliness they specify and not learn from previous mistakes.

I'd wager many of us showing the same level of incompetency in their own full-time jobs probably wouldn't have a job for long.

Apparently, many of the developers are doing this part time. Hence the long delays in updates/releases. From what I've read on their forums, they may have one or two full time guys, but the majority are part time.

Look, I understand that you guys want more of whatever it is you want - whether that's your favorite fighter, or a particular campaign for a particular aircraft. I'm not slamming you for having demand, as consumers we are entitled to want whatever it is we want.

Buuuut..

I have been a free mod developer for many, many years. Some of my sound mods were downloaded by millions of people. Occasionally I did payware mods.

If I had ever had the kind of constant grinding from users I would have just quit. The constant negativity really gets to people. They are real people, please don't forget that. You will catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

If you've got criticism it's very important that you voice it clearly to the developers..but do it in a constructive manner and I am 100% positive you'll get a better result. You don't need to be a fanboy. Just give the developers very clear instructions.

For example It's really frustrating to a developer to get something like a bug report that lacks any useful information. I see many people here posting that ED is incompetent but I can't understand why, exactly. What is it specifically that everyone is upset about?

If it's the pricing, all I can say is just buy during the sales when prices drop to something like 10% of the full price..! If it's releasing of betas, well.. don't buy in-development products. This method of selling DLC may be shady to some but I personally am happier to have a partially functional product rather than a fully functional product -as long as it will be polished to a presentable state in further development-.

As far as I know, no DCS modules have failed to deliver what they promised - the M2000 Mirage was pretty rough at release but look at it now, it is fantastic. Just give the developers time and help them out with fixing issues by giving clear, concise criticism that will help them prioritize issues. They'll get to things as soon as they can.

I think this is because the focus of this sim has become so vague, you've got several different factions of simmers wanting what they want. WWII guys want what they backed via Kickstarter that ED took on when the dude failed to deliver. Modern jet guys want to go beyond the FC3 plane set. Helo guys want a true attack platform.

People want the jet/helo/prop that is near and dear to them. Lately the DLCs haven't been interesting to the masses. So they've failed to generate talk. The forums have been quiet, as a result.

ED's latest DLCs have been uninspiring and for many, appear to have diverted focus further away from the goal of a stable AND combined world.

The argument that DCSW is free to play only holds true to the new guy. Granted you do get the Su-25T and TF-51 for free, but after that it IS pay to play. You pay $60 per module and then have the expectation that it gets the updates to fix the things that make/keep it flyable. So far, that isnt happening as fast as people are wanting.

<shrug> so we wait and either gripe all the time, or stay off the forums until something is released that inspires talk.

part time jobs and full time headaches



the 3rd party crews are then staffed by 3rd party developers ...



adding modules can be an expensive pastime - unless you get FC3 level modules.

Except they did away with those. Now I think 30% is the most I've seen, maybe 40%, I don't recall exactly.

Put simply, it used to be for $50-60 you'd get a new sim with a flyable plane, a campaign or two, a theater, and units to interact with, air and ground, with MP.
Now...plane alone is $50-$60. New terrain is $40. Campaigns are $10 a pop. Air and ground units you interact with may or may not actually match the era of the plane you fly in...SA-10s vs P-51s? All are released, after a preorder, in early access or beta which is of undefined length, until "release" which is an arbitrary milestone as often we get nothing more with release (like a campaign) than we did in early access. It's just less buggy, but it's still rarely free of major bugs. Minor bugs are par for the course, not going to quibble about those.

I don't call it shady. It's not underhanded or deceitful. I call it capitalism 101 - charge what the market will bear.
I just don't like it.

I also believe many others don't like it and this will drive away some of their customers, which is hardly a large enough base that they can cavalierly dump the more cost conscious.

I can't believe I'm saying this, so many years after Falcon 3 introduced the idea of an "electronic battlefield" with interlocking titles allowing you to fly the early planes on the later terrains and the later planes on the early terrains, all together in MP, with DCS World finally delivering it to us...but I miss the one and done releases of old.




The Jedi Master

C'mon Daz! You live in the UK!! Surely you're aware of the current healthcare fiasco?




First of all, this isn't about criticism or constructive bug reports. I'm very sure ED has had those in spades.

Incompetency in terms of planning and delivering their plans in the timeframe mentioned in their plans. Lack of direction. Lack of planning. Incompetency in terms of issuing patches that sometimes breaks more than it fixes (tutorials and mods/campaigns no longer working on a new patch), with new bugs that makes you wonder how it made it past the gate in the first place. It's not that "User A said something and ED made it happen," it's more of "ED said something and ED can't even make it happen."

I believe I'll have to add this disclaimer though --- I've not touched ED for a few years so my gripes may no longer be valid.... but reading other people's posts here suggests I may still be on track.

While I am sure multiplayer is better in many ways, I certainly feel I have got my money's worth playing single player. In fact I have never played DCS World multiplayer.

I have the A10C, KA50, BAE Hawk, P51, F86,FC3 and UH1 modules, along with the NTTR terrain. Seriously considering the Gazelle and F5 too.

DCS is an outstanding experience with the Oculus Rift (and I assume Vive) too. Given that there are some limitations associated with using the Rift though, single player might be the best option when using one of these headsets.

That's just it. It is being done by part timers. Avio are part time, yet they charge full price. They haven't quit their day jobs, and I would implore them not to just because. They haven't finished the 101 in a reasonable time. They are struggling with it while showing nice screenshots of their next project. JFC finish what's been payed for before announcing new projects. Do they really think their previous customers are going to buy their mirage after the fiasco that is the c101? That's where the complaining comes from. These developers are taking money and are showing a complete lack of focus.
Veao are full of part timers and it shows. They too are struggling with the Hawk that has been partly funded with beta moneys. Their roadmap is going to keep them all busy until they're all in their 90s if each module takes as long as the Hawk has done so far.
BST still have unfinished modules for sale while releasing the F-5 in beta state. Only their Sabre is finished.
If I am going to pay for a beta, not anymore I must add, I would want to see the Developer working on it and not showing screenshots of their next unfinished release which will take resources from what I have paid for. I don't think that is unreasonable and I don't think it's unreasonable to complain about it.

DCS:WW2, Hawk, C-101, Huey, Mi-8. HUD and Doppler radar on Ka-50 still aren't getting repaired.

If the developers are doing this part of full time is as irrelevant as it can be until part time developers start charging part time prices. I don't give a hoot what the VEAO devs do as their full time job when the Hawk I payed for looks like garbage, or when the Huey still doesn't have any engine temperature, etc. And as has been pointed out, the large sales are long gone. Instead we've got even higher prices than we used to have before, and a bunch of monetized modding content, which is an interesting turn of events. Guessing the whole DCS 2.0 thing cost more than anticipated.

"we are simply exchanging points of view about pricing, quality and product expectations. "

All I see are the same group of people (5 or so) complaining about anything and everything related to DCS. I have yet to read one positive remark from any of these guys and I wonder what drives them. All they achieve is turning people completely off on trying out the only modern sim available and thereby missing out on a fantastic product, warts and all.

Don't want to participate in beta..? Don't hand over your cash, idiots!

And for all the people who believe this stuff should be bought for the price of 2 beers on a Friday night... You come across as dumb and naïve. I can assure you these products are as cheap as possible. This is a niche market. The [Text deleted] who are calling this developer 'greedy' have no idea what they're talking about.

I'm done venting now.

To me DCS captures the feeling of flying a combat jet perfectly. Physics are second to none and the graphics are as good as it gets. I'm only interested in single player and create most of missions myself.. with just the right amount of randomness to keep things interesting. Flying online works beautifully at home but I spend a lot of time on the road so that doesnt do it for me. I dare any of you to find a similar product that approaches the level of fidelity of DCS. Let's hear it!

{Crickets}

Seriously... you can't call certain people '..iots'? And then turn around and say ED forums are heavily moderated... you've got to be joking me.

Also, note that I didn't name any names.

New planes are cool and everything but what do you do with them after you have learned how to use them?

The mission editor in DCS is pain in the ass and limited compared to other mission editors like in BMS (broken record) and Dangerous Waters. Look at the most played multiplayer missions in DCS, you've got simple training missions, aerobatic and air-quake they aren't complex to make and maintain but in my eyes don't offer a lot of replayability.

I've created multiplayer mission in the past and to keep them up-to-date with ED's patches as well as fresh was a hassle and you as the creator knew where everything was or would be even with randomizing scripts.

Missions that are run by the S77th, 51st for example are better but still don't offer dynamic large scale battles (Falcon Online style). The Blue Flag 24/7 mission was the fist time in DCS that I felt like my input in destroying a SAM or enemy plane helped the overall war effort but even that didn't large amount of ground forces movement and had issues with scripts and needed to be restarted regularly because the engine couldn't handle it.

Slightly of topic regarding system complexity, I think that with BMS 4.33 the F-16 weapons and system are more advanced and "harder" to learn than the A-10 or any other ED product for that matter.

you obviously do NOT browse these forums

besides criticizing them I do this







and that is for the past week

and if that is not enough, I just happen to run a flight sim website

www.lockonfiles.com

which also support DCS products.

not that doing all this is a requisite to be able to post one's opinions, anyone and everyone is entitled to do it.

the same way no one is forced to but beta products ( *** I don't as a rule now *** ) no one is forcing anyone to read negative posts.

Tom Weiss has been doing a lot for the DCS community in terms of offering value-added content completely for free. He could be selling this stuff.

Anyhow, we seem to be getting away from the main point, that DCS' prices are a little steep for what appears to be less content. That's a perception problem. My perception is that it doesn't look anything unlike what Just Flight does with the MSFS series. In fact, it's essentially identical in scope, and in some cases, cheaper. A LOT cheaper. Try to find a studio-produced F-15C for $10 in MSFS. It isn't happening.

Unfortunately ED's bug readers are not as knowledgeable as they need to be. I reported an EOR aircraft placement issue at Groom Lake and was told it wasnt a bug, and dismissed. Since then, I've added other bugs and never even got an acknowledgement.

So I gave up reporting anything. They obviously dont want the help, but do need it.