#3602940 - 07/07/12 12:07 PM
DCS Combined arms balance question
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,896
bogusheadbox
Opinionated Aussie Bloke
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Opinionated Aussie Bloke
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,896
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In the DCS world, trees are not collidable. Radars, rockets, guns and missiles can fly through them.
(Unless i have missed it of course.)
With combined arms. What is to stop a person with a mobile sam launcher to hide inside a forest where they are very hard to see, but yet can aquire targets and fire missiles off from within dense cover as if there is no cover at all ?
Fighterops...
The only TRUE Stealth crowd funded game.
Devs said there was stuff there, but you just couldn't see it.
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#3602994 - 07/07/12 02:34 PM
Re: DCS Combined arms balance question
[Re: bogusheadbox]
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,893
GrayGhost
Hotshot
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Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,893
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The fact that they too need to see their target and track it visually.
-- 44th VFW
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#3602997 - 07/07/12 02:37 PM
Re: DCS Combined arms balance question
[Re: bogusheadbox]
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,111
Wrecking Crew
Smooth Operator
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Smooth Operator
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Posts: 5,111
Colorado
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What is to stop a person with a mobile sam launcher to hide inside a forest where they are very hard to see...? Nothing... ^^^ from The Highway The RWR will point the way. WC
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#3603009 - 07/07/12 03:21 PM
Re: DCS Combined arms balance question
[Re: bogusheadbox]
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 155
Hamblue
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Member
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Guess that's why they made IR sensors
Motherboard: Z87. CPU: 4790K clocked to 4.4Ghz. Ram: 16Gig Power Supply: 1000 watt Video:GTX 780Ti Hard Drives: 500 Gig PCIE SSD and 1TB maxtor. Video Card. Evga GTX 78O Ti OC Controllers: Warthog Hotas, Saitek Combat pedals, Track IR5.
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#3604378 - 07/10/12 02:22 AM
Re: DCS Combined arms balance question
[Re: bogusheadbox]
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 378
mrskortch
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Member
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Posts: 378
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While balance is a game design term and not something typically associated with simulation, it is still a simulation game and to a certain extent balance still matters. Unless the rules of the simulation world are nearly identical to that of the real world we must apply balance and game design to overcome these limitations. One of the unfair advantages that AI posses is the ability to see and shoot through trees. Mission designers may realize this capability and place sams outside of wooded areas, however with CA players can order AI sams to move within a forest, thus negating the intent of balance from the mission builder. Yet the "foul" location of the SAM is but one alternative. CA players can move the sam anywhere, which creates a lovely situation where an attacking player controlled aircraft simply won't memorize the location of specific threats on subsequent replays of the mission. I am curious though- if the slots aren't occupied by people do those assets still exist in the game as ai until someone comes in? Or are they completely separate entities with start points similar to what we are used to? Unless they added a feature that limits which groups can be controlled, any unit that exists on the map, which has the capability of being directly controlled (FPS), can be AI or player controlled at any point in the mission. Some units are limited to an RTS type of control, but you can change the groups ROE, State, formation, and waypoints.
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#3605057 - 07/11/12 12:18 PM
Re: DCS Combined arms balance question
[Re: bogusheadbox]
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,231
HogDriver
Retired Flight Simmer
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Retired Flight Simmer
Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,231
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"Balance" I think is the wrong term here. This is more like an "exploit". You take advantage of something in the game that goes "against the spirit" of the gameplay. From a simulation standpoint it would need to be fixed at some point. Totally killed the immersion for me watching my JTAC vehicle drive through trees like a ghost.
I refuse to buy a flight sim that I have no interest in playing, on the off chance that MAYBE someday they'll make the one I really want to play.
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#3606248 - 07/13/12 01:10 PM
Re: DCS Combined arms balance question
[Re: bogusheadbox]
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,896
bogusheadbox
Opinionated Aussie Bloke
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Opinionated Aussie Bloke
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,896
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As an example here is another post from a member playing a tank in CA. clicky The player is aparently being engaged by tanks that can see through the forest yet he has no way of engaging said enemy until they break cover. As for the other posts. I think it is a balance question. As now you can control the ground units, If the AI can see and engage through dense forests and a player contoled unit of the same ability cannot due to visual implemetation of vegetation. Then that surely would come under balance? Anyway just curious if there is any plans for this or "not at the moment"? Disclaimer: I am not trying to insite a flame war of any kind for or against.
Last edited by bogusheadbox; 07/13/12 01:12 PM.
Fighterops...
The only TRUE Stealth crowd funded game.
Devs said there was stuff there, but you just couldn't see it.
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#3607065 - 07/14/12 09:34 PM
Re: DCS Combined arms balance question
[Re: bogusheadbox]
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 517
159th_Viper
Flyin' it like I Stole it......Always!
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Flyin' it like I Stole it......Always!
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Posts: 517
Texas, USA
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.....As now you can control the ground units, If the AI can see and engage through dense forests and a player contoled unit of the same ability cannot due to visual implemetation of vegetation. Then that surely would come under balance?
Anyway just curious if there is any plans for this or "not at the moment"?
DTAC may very well go a long way towards solving this particular irritation....Certainly looking promising at present.
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#3607364 - 07/15/12 04:22 PM
Re: DCS Combined arms balance question
[Re: bogusheadbox]
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 139
JayTac
Member
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Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 139
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Wow never knew that. Sounds like this issue may never be fixed then, wish I would have seen this thread before buying.
Last edited by JayTac; 07/15/12 04:23 PM.
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#3607543 - 07/15/12 10:02 PM
Re: DCS Combined arms balance question
[Re: JayTac]
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 517
159th_Viper
Flyin' it like I Stole it......Always!
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Flyin' it like I Stole it......Always!
Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 517
Texas, USA
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Wow never knew that. Sounds like this issue may never be fixed then, wish I would have seen this thread before buying. Don't jump to conclusions just yet. As said previously, DTAC is looking promising.
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#3607611 - 07/16/12 12:09 AM
Re: DCS Combined arms balance question
[Re: bogusheadbox]
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,740
FlashBurn
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,740
Washington State, USA
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As an example here is another post from a member playing a tank in CA. clicky The player is aparently being engaged by tanks that can see through the forest yet he has no way of engaging said enemy until they break cover. As for the other posts. I think it is a balance question. As now you can control the ground units, If the AI can see and engage through dense forests and a player contoled unit of the same ability cannot due to visual implemetation of vegetation. Then that surely would come under balance? Anyway just curious if there is any plans for this or "not at the moment"? Disclaimer: I am not trying to insite a flame war of any kind for or against. Not a balance issue.........design flaw. As soon as they did the geee, lets make a bunch of stuff human controlled and playable there where bound to be issues. As a force control element or JTAC......I love the concept. As a ground force simulation I have no idea how that could work and not end up bad. On the fence about getting it. But as of now without better more real world landscapes and trees that do somehting there will be issues. As to playable tanks and stuff...........just a bad idea IMO. Do not match up in quality at all to the aircraft. If I do make the pludge........which I probably will. I forsee messing with that aspect 1 time and wanting to vomit. But to make little plans for ai to go kill stuff with myself zipping around in the air.......hell ya. The ground ai will need to improve ALOT to be a true tactical style game and just forget ground vehicle sim. A couple high detail JTAC type models that work as per real world would serve much better than bad arcade tank game built into a vary good aircraft sim. But I reserve the right to eat my old combat boot if I end up being wrong.
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#3608341 - 07/17/12 06:12 AM
Re: DCS Combined arms balance question
[Re: EinsteinEP]
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 378
mrskortch
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Member
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