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#2976425 - 03/14/10 08:54 PM
Posted by Waggs on theDCS forums
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,545
Simbo_Sim123
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Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,545
Tonyrefail South Wales
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Dear all,
As most of you are aware, the development of Flaming Cliffs 2 has taken much longer than expected. What was originally planned as a two month development cycle has turned into a nine month development cycle. This was primarily due to including much more new content than we had originally planned and an extended beta test period to clean up the product. We wanted to address as many community concerns about Flaming Cliffs as possible.
Unfortunately, time is money and the cost of development has far exceeded what was budgeted. As such, in order for us to at least break even on Flaming Cliffs 2 we have had to increase the sales price to $29.99 USD. This software will both upgrade Lock On to Flaming Cliffs 2 and Upgrade Flaming Cliffs to Flaming Cliffs 2.
We understand that some of you will be upset given the earlier sales price announcement and we apologize for having to make this alteration of our original plan. We do believe though that Flaming Cliffs 2 will be a great product and well worth the cost of admission.
Thanks,
Matt
I will stil be buying it on release !
Simbo Sim123
Last edited by Simbo 123 SQDN; 03/14/10 08:55 PM.
Mae hen wlad fy nhadau yn annwyl i mi,
Gwlad beirdd a chantorion, enwogion o fri;
Ei gwrol ryfelwyr, gwladgarwyr tra m�d,
Dros ryddid collasant eu gwaed.
Gwlad, gwlad, pleidiol wyf i'm gwlad.
Tra m�r yn fur i'r bur hoff bau,
O bydded i'r hen iaith barhau.
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#2976490 - 03/14/10 10:44 PM
Re: Posted by Waggs on theDCS forums
[Re: Nate]
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,893
GrayGhost
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It will upgrade either to FC2, both LO and FC1.
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44th VFW
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#2976495 - 03/14/10 10:47 PM
Re: Posted by Waggs on theDCS forums
[Re: MedinaES]
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,893
GrayGhost
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It isn't a patch. There is plenty of new capability in the software, far more than a patch would confer.
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44th VFW
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#2976511 - 03/14/10 11:14 PM
Re: Posted by Waggs on theDCS forums
[Re: GrayGhost]
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,126
MedinaES
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Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,126
Destination Unknown...
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It isn't a patch. There is plenty of new capability in the software, far more than a patch would confer. - Runs under DirectX 9C
- Improved Mission Editor with trigger system
- New terrain area to include much of Georgia. This will be same map as used in DCS: Blacks Shark. As such the Crimea has been replaced with the addition of Georgia.
- More detailed terrain to include more ground objects, larger forests, and higher resolution elevation data
- Improved clouds
- High resolution airfield textures
- Improved multiplayer system with embedded game browser
- More robust online cheating prevention
- New and improved menu system
- Numerous new, highly detailed ground units including infantry
- Improved flight performance for player-controlled aircraft
- Improved flight models for all artificial intelligence (AI) controlled aircraft
- New, more realistic G-tolerance modeling
- Limited 6 DOF cockpits that move up, down and sideways according to maneuvering
- New and highly-detailed Su-25 model
- Advanced ballistics are implemented for all flyable aircraft, including ricochets of AP rounds
- F-15C locked target IFF indication
- More realistic ranges, seeker guidance and fuzes for air-to-air missiles
- More realistic electronic countermeasure operation and performance
- New and improved sound engine
- New radio message voice-overs By using the DCS environment, Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 2.0 users will have improved terrain, mission editor, AI flight models, 3D objects, artificial intelligence (AI), and multiplayer. The aircraft of Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 2.0 will include:
• Su-25 (new 3D model)
• Su-25T
• A-10A
• Su-27
• Su-33
• MiG-29A
• MiG-29C
• F-15C
Several new missions and campaigns will be included in Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 2.0.
Sorry but it looks a patch to me. Most of them are fixes and improvements the higher maps resolution is an upgrade of the poorly optimized lockon engine.
Last edited by jt_medina; 03/14/10 11:17 PM.
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#2976525 - 03/14/10 11:35 PM
Re: Posted by Waggs on theDCS forums
[Re: MedinaES]
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,893
GrayGhost
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,893
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- Runs under DirectX 9C
- Improved Mission Editor with trigger system
- New terrain area to include much of Georgia. This will be same map as used in DCS: Blacks Shark. As such the Crimea has been replaced with the addition of Georgia.
- More detailed terrain to include more ground objects, larger forests, and higher resolution elevation data
- Improved clouds
- High resolution airfield textures
- Improved multiplayer system with embedded game browser
- More robust online cheating prevention
- New and improved menu system
- Numerous new, highly detailed ground units including infantry
- Improved flight performance for player-controlled aircraft
- Improved flight models for all artificial intelligence (AI) controlled aircraft
- New, more realistic G-tolerance modeling
- Limited 6 DOF cockpits that move up, down and sideways according to maneuvering
- New and highly-detailed Su-25 model
- Advanced ballistics are implemented for all flyable aircraft, including ricochets of AP rounds
- F-15C locked target IFF indication
- More realistic ranges, seeker guidance and fuzes for air-to-air missiles
- More realistic electronic countermeasure operation and performance
- New and improved sound engine
- New radio message voice-overs
- New single player missions
- New Campaigns
- New Training Missions
Many pieces of this software are completely new to FC; as such that is no longer a patch. Patches fix bugs. This is an upgrade - it adds a significant amount of functionality. And even things that one might consider to be on 'patch' level such as the FM adjustments - I know from personal involvement that many, many hours went into tuning those, including alterations to the flight model required to make things work correctly, as well as testing. The amount of work and type of enhancement precludes this from being a mere patch. I don't recall where this 'unoptimized engine' bs myth keeps coming from, but that's exactly what it is: a bs myth. And EVEN just the textures and additional area took someone's time to do - significant time. Would you like your work to be undervalued? The price is what it is due to time and effort spent on the product; it is not based upon your (incorrect) impression of what it is.
Last edited by GrayGhost; 03/14/10 11:38 PM.
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44th VFW
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#2976532 - 03/14/10 11:48 PM
Re: Posted by Waggs on theDCS forums
[Re: GrayGhost]
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,126
MedinaES
Member
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Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,126
Destination Unknown...
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This is a Patch  Where are the REAL new maps, airplanes, air to ground radar, real optimized multiplayer, a truly next gen engine?. For a 5 year old product this is a patch. Please, Don't offend my logic. For a five year old product paying for those fixes 30 euros is a ... I am gonna save what I really think.  The good news is that, Hey!!, I'll buy it!!.
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#2976537 - 03/14/10 11:56 PM
Re: Posted by Waggs on theDCS forums
[Re: MedinaES]
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,943
Nate
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,943
Dublin, Ireland
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Where are the REAL new maps, airplanes, air to ground radar, real optimized multiplayer, a truly next gen engine?.
That sounds like a new Full Sim to me, not an addon to a current sim. Nate
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#2976540 - 03/15/10 12:02 AM
Re: Posted by Waggs on theDCS forums
[Re: GrayGhost]
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,126
MedinaES
Member
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Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,126
Destination Unknown...
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I don't recall where this 'unoptimized engine' bs myth keeps coming from, but that's exactly what it is: a bs myth.
And EVEN just the textures and additional area took someone's time to do - significant time.
Would you like your work to be undervalued?
The price is what it is due to time and effort spent on the product; it is not based upon your (incorrect) impression of what it is.
I passed it! My incorrect impression is the impression of many of us. And yes the simulator is poorly optimized given that in order to run it properly it has passed nearly 5 years before you can have a decent performance on cities. Listen to who is gonna buy your product.
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#2976543 - 03/15/10 12:11 AM
Re: Posted by Waggs on theDCS forums
[Re: MedinaES]
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,893
GrayGhost
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I passed it! My incorrect impression is the impression of many of us. So many of you like working for pittance? ...  And yes the simulator is poorly optimized given that in order to run it properly it has passed nearly 5 years before you can have a decent performance on cities.
Listen to who is gonna buy your product.
... many of you who have created 3D gaming engines and are qualified to make such statements ... right? It doesn't matter whether you are buying the product or not - when there's a lot of objects and a large FoV as well as a large view distance, performance will suffer. You don't get to optimize yourself out of that.
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44th VFW
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#2976556 - 03/15/10 12:33 AM
Re: Posted by Waggs on theDCS forums
[Re: GrayGhost]
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,126
MedinaES
Member
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Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,126
Destination Unknown...
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... many of you who have created 3D gaming engines and are qualified to make such statements ... right? It doesn't matter whether you are buying the product or not - when there's a lot of objects and a large FoV as well as a large view distance, performance will suffer. You don't get to optimize yourself out of that. Trust me I know how hard develop code is, in fact you would be surprised that someone behind this keyboard has a knowledge of what it takes to create something from nothing with a few guys. But don't even tell me this is worth 30 euros because if you keep telling me this and keep offending my logic and intelligence then I am not gonna buy this ever. Create software is hard, improve it can be a headache, debug it double headache, but don't sell my the idea that 30 bucks is the fair price because that's not true. By the way It doesn't matter whether you are buying the product or not Really!?. Thats a good way to improve sales! 
Last edited by jt_medina; 03/15/10 12:42 AM.
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#2976610 - 03/15/10 02:22 AM
Re: Posted by Waggs on theDCS forums
[Re: khriztian]
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,270
sinner6
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,270
Fort Worth,TX
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I will be there on day 1, Eagle Dynamics has kept to their ideals and stuck with flight simulation instead of taking the easy path and making games for the Nintendo DS. That alone ensures I will support this product. These are some great things being ADDED in 2.0.
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#2976707 - 03/15/10 06:25 AM
Re: Posted by Waggs on theDCS forums
[Re: sinner6]
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,699
NavyNuke99
One Man Wolfpack
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One Man Wolfpack
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Raleigh, NC
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I will be there on day 1, Eagle Dynamics has kept to their ideals and stuck with flight simulation instead of taking the easy path and making games for the Nintendo DS. That alone ensures I will support this product. These are some great things being ADDED in 2.0. +1. And it'll be the same thing for me when DCS: A-10 comes out.
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#2976760 - 03/15/10 12:02 PM
Re: Posted by Waggs on theDCS forums
[Re: NavyNuke99]
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 475
Lucky812
Member
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Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 475
Corpus Christi, TX
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I already have 3 copies of FC, whats another $29.99. Bring it!
i7 2600K
ASUS GTX580
46' LED
Bose Speakers
TM Warthog (CH Products, Logitech G-940 and Cougar are gathering dust)
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#2976792 - 03/15/10 01:39 PM
Re: Posted by Waggs on theDCS forums
[Re: Nate]
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Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,524
Keithb77
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Member
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,524
UK
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So long as the 7 extra months in development do not mean 7 more months until it is released...  I'd buy it next week for $30 in a heartbeat (at $1.5 to the pound), in November maybe not. Cheers, keith
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#2976804 - 03/15/10 01:50 PM
Re: Posted by Waggs on theDCS forums
[Re: Keithb77]
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,943
Nate
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Member
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Posts: 1,943
Dublin, Ireland
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...nine month development cycle..... FC2 development started around June 2009. Nate
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