Today I am at the Asuluk SAM range where I will be qualifying on the S-75M3 Volhov (SA-2E Guideline) SAM system. I will be engaging an LA-17M target drone which will be flying a B-52 flight profile. Enough chatter, lets shoot something out of the sky, da?

The target:


My "work station" for today.



Lets get started, da? Systems... Check!


Start the generators.


Raise the antenna.


Activate the RSN-75V3 Fan Song E radar. It might come in handy. =p


A check of the Vector-2VE Integrated Air Defense System (IADS) shows our target is inbound.


A flick of this switch will bring our RSN-75V3 Fan Song E onto the target. Note, the small black needle is the direction our Fan Song is facing. The orange needle represents the direction our SAM battery is facing.



Switching the Fan Song to narrow beam mode.


Acquiring the target.


Begin the missile gyro spin up.


Switch our Fan Song into Lobe On Receive Only (LORO) mode. Note, LORO is the only mode that can ACCURATELY guide missiles.


Set the missile radio fuse. SOP calls for a "standard" fuse of 300m, however, I prefer the 100m. The standard is all the way to the left if you're wondering.


Missile gyros are spun up, and they're ready to fly.


Activate the guidance system.


I will be using the "Three point guidance" for this engagement. Under the current engagement parameters this is SOP. Three point guidance guides the missile(s) straight at the target instead of leading. To enable we want the "T/T" setting.



Aligning the battery with the target.




Missiles are ready.


Target is within 70km, lets set our radar for 70km.


Note, the upper set of numbers is used for range when using the 150km mode. Our target is currently around 67km.


We should probably choose "live fire" mode over "simulation"...


Target is in range! Note the dotted line below our target. It's the estimated point of impact. So we should intercept our target ~45km.


Pusk!



Three direct hits! The "splatter" on the radar is the debris field. Now then, how do we know it's really dead? Lets look at the altitude and airspeed before and after impact.

Before:


After:


The Fan Song's view of the crash.




I'm really glad I found this little sim, it's a lot of fun to play. I really hope the developer keeps working on this for a long time. I'd love to see the SA-10 Grumble simulated one day. On a side note, only the SA-2E "Guideline" and SA-3B "Goa" are playable. The good news is the SA-4 "Ganef" is currently in the works.

Which 'little sim'? I didn't on first glance see a link or description.

Oh, sorry about that. http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

However, there's one catch to this sim. You MUST use 1280x1024 resolution to play it, if your monitor doesn't support that res you're sadly out of luck. I hope the developer will add support for other resolutions sometime.

Do you need to set the desktop to that res, or does it switch to full screen rendering at that resolution on start?

Sadly you have to set your desktop res to 1280x1024 then start it. It's a pain in the butt if you want to use another resolution, but it's worth it.

Edit: I forgot to mention, it also takes like 10 minutes to install.

Now that is an interesting write-up! Something I've never before seen for sure!

Very cool!

Ditto, never seen anything like that. It would be cool to have a cut session where the missile is launched and tracks to target.

Wow, this looks mightily interesting! :o

That is indeed very interesting. Thanks for posting this. Please show us more. One of the first things which came to mind was "wouldn't this be neat if the DCS series incorporated this into one of their modules."

Perhaps a realm of possiblity? Can you imagine being in multiplayer and trying to track and shoot down human opponants in aircraft? Anyway, just some random thoughts. Again, thanks.

DCS would be an extremely good candidate too seeing how LOMAC 2 will be compatible. Hey, lets just throw SBProPE in too.

I was thinking about it yesterday watching the preview on VBS2 preview.
I recall back in the day, Microprose wanted to do something similar even though it was only planned to be compatible for their titles; have M1 Tank Platoon2 simmers hook up with Gunship! fliers and play together.

Why could developers not agree on a defined standard for a plug in for different sims, that would allow different sims to communicate with each other. That way you have people playing DCD:BS play with, say SBPro. While having air support from LOMAC2, and infantry being controlled by Arma2 players.
I mean, you wouldn't have to allow any other sims to connect, as you change the options for the servers, but it'd be great to have the possibility.

Now that would be a shhhhweeet deal!

This is fascinating. Are there other views, like a 3D view, or a missile or target view?

Yah, I've always thought a "all-in-one" sim that actually had high fidelity modeling would be great. However no one is interested in putting the time and resources into making a sim like that. The best we can hope for is arcade games like BF2... Altho, so long as there is an AWSM included I'm happy (Naise|AWM4Joo/Naise|OM4Joo).

@Brian

No, there's no 3d to it. It's purely what an operator would see. Maybe one day he'll add a 3d engine to it, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

No, only 'panel' displays within the control van. It is like 'Harpoon' but with the 'click to designate' replaced by the full switchology.



Can be very busy as well - here I only made three successful lock-ups on targets within range (all on the low altitude intruders from the south), and splashed two with two engagements using 5 missiles... The third and fourth in this formation were predicted to be outside the kinematic range by the intercept point. The other two flights turned away after accomplishing their reconnaissance task (identify the location of the S75 firing battalion).
No IADS for target designation, so targets picked up using the P18 search radar.

Pretty awesome sim! Would be great if it had a debrief screen rather than just dumping you back to menu though. I want to know what it was that I just shot down...

Agreed. Even a sim needs some game elements.

Looks pretty cool...is there a scenario editor?

vertical

No, but the developer is making more combat zones.

We'll have to check this out. It looks very neat.

(EDIT) This is cooler than an ice machine at the South Pole. Full-on procedures for employment of both the S-75 and S-125 missile systems, both as part of an integrated air defense system and on its own, using its organic air-search and tracking radars to isolate approaching targets. And the radars are modeled in a very sophisticated fashion. Whoever put this together has a very detailed understanding of these systems. It even models early jamming countermeasures and launcher reload times! Fan-tastic! And the PDF based documentation is absolutely top-notch.

And it is 100% free to download! I'll be recommending that we do a formal review of this software at some point in 2010.

Miao, Cat

Yah, this guy really knows his stuff. Hope to see a SimHQ review!

Moo, Chris

It's coming, I just have to get familiar with the software and get organized. Should have the review to guod sometime during 1st quarter 2010.

I'm in contact with the developer already. He's a nice guy and I've invited him to come and post here. It's a fascinating story. Sim's been in development for 4 years already, and it is based on declassified Hungarian and Russian sources that have come out since Hungary obsoleted its Soviet air defense systems in 2000. It's an effort by an enthusiast for enthusiasts.

BTW, how did you get the screenshots? Is there a key for that to take them within the sim?

Miao, Cat

Good to hear. I didn't know how long he had been working on it. Four years shows a good desire to see it done, so hopefully we'll get more SAM systems to play with!

As for screenshots I used FSScreen, but it only saves in .bmp. I'm not aware of any in-game screen capture function.

Moo, Chris

I just used 'Printscreen' and Photoshop.

Very tolerant of Alt-tabbing, & although it doesn't appear in the program list you only need click into the sim to return to it.

Just tried it out. Very neat, gives a very good idea of what it must have been like to use these for real. I just took out a drone flying a B-52 strike profile, now to try something a little more challenging.

-Jenrick

For the ultimate challenge, see if you can stop a two or three missile ripple of the Koliber AShM fired on the Ustka test range in Northern Poland. They travel so fast that even locking them in the time available isn't assured, and the remaining fragments often overfly the firing battalion...

Being under fire from SSN22, SSN12 or SSN19 type AShM suddenly doesn't look fun at all...

(S75 is equivalent to the SAN-2, and S125 to the SAN-1 so both saw service as shipboard AADMS).

The P15 'Styx' isn't too much of a challenge by comparison, but having more than one in the air tends to make them too short-legged to reach as they perform a dog-leg.

I'll try that. Currently I've been messing with 4 aircraft flights, or a pair with jamming. More then one target moving at high speed makes for a very difficult exercise regardless of profile.

-Jenrick

So far, you shot on drones, and other easy targets...
... now, you can feel the full might of the USAF unleashed.

New version of the SAMsim is released:
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Includes the situation of Hanoi (Linebacker-II raid 19.12.1972.):
4:40am 19th of December, 1972. Hundred plane is participating in the third wave, during Night-1 of the Linebacker-II raid against Hanoi, the biggest bombardment of a city since World War-II. 51 B-52 will deliver carpet bombing against the Kinh No Industrial Complex (18 B-52), Gia Lam Rail Road Yard (12 B-52), and the Hanoi Radio (21 B-52). The supporting force consist of 36 F-4E Phantom-II, 6 F-105G Wild Weasel, 2 EB-66B Destroyer, 2 EA-6B Prowler, 1 EC-135 Looking Glass and 1 EC-121H AWACS. The nine SA-2 battery, defending Hanoi is firing 35 missiles during 16 engagements. B-52D `Rose-01` is shot down, Cpt. Richard Cooper, and TSgt. Charlie Poole dies. Cpt. Hal Wilson, Cpt. Charles Brown, Maj. Fernando Alexander, and Cpt. Henry Barrows are survives the ejection. B-52D `Rainbow-01` is also hit, but able to fly back to base.

Target acquisition radar display range can be selected between 90-180-360km.
Corrected several minor issues. (invisible ground targets, ground targets out of destruction zone, switching to I87V while range tracking)
Missile g limit is reduced to the realistic level.
Jamming burn-through is implemented.
Wartime scenario pre-mission briefing maps added.

Happy New Year!

Looks good, and I have downloaded the new version.

Looking further ahead, the AAR functions of .916 will be very welcome.

The most frequent comment I see is the lack of scalable resolution is hurting accessibility for those with flat screens particularly.

This is going to be a cult classic. I'm looking for our old trackball so I can see if that helps target acquisition with the P18 radar in manual control for the S75. I can't seem to get it right with the mouse, I'm forever jamming the radar down.

Miao, Cat

Use the H<5 switch
That allows the SNR-75V3 to bank 3 degrees below the horizon, without locking down.

Welcome Hpasp!

Thanks for this labor of love!!!

Version v916 is released
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
It contains After Action Report window, and some fixes...

Happy New Year,
Hpasp

That was fast!

Miao, CAt

I was toying the idea of AAR for quite of a time.

We also wanted to give the players of the feeling of the FOG of WAR.
Most of us were probably laughed on the Vietnamese, or Serbian reports of shooting down the 2000. US plane, but sitting behind the controls of an SA-2, you could only see, that your missile blown up...
... is it really hit anything???
You will be never sure of.

Now I would need to dig myself inside of the historical reports about El Dorado Canyon.
That was the fist time ever, the HARM missile was fired by anger.
(The toughest opponent of any SAM)

Best Regards,
Hpasp

Some serious military site about this sim...
http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Sov-SAM-Simulator.html

"Air Power Auatralia sought advice from several contributors with operational experience on these systems, and all confirmed that the simulator provides a high quality representation of the SNR-75 Fan Song E, and SNR-125 Low Blow."

There's nothing better for a sim than guys that operated the real thing to say it's realistic. Playing flight sims gives the impression that the SAM operators have it easy, so it's nice to see how challenging it really is to operate even the "simple" SA-2. I'm looking forward to seeing which systems you'll model, and I'll keep hoping for an SA-10 Grumble!

Now THAT's certainly interesting.

Documentation describing the events of the "Operation El-Dorado Canyon" can be downloaded from:
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/

As my historical analysis of these events are now concluded, I can start to program it into the SAMSIM.

It might be interesting for You, that:

How to shoot the F-117A with the S-125M1 Neva (SA-3B) VIDEO TUTORIAL, made by UV59 Hungarian exSAM battery commander is available...

http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

I don't share this pessimistic view. It may still be five to ten years ahead, but the chances aren't too bad, the more simulations are capable of interfacing with each other. This is not a trivial issue ... but since armies more and more are willing to throw low cost simulations into their mix of simulation tools - and at the same time want them to work with the "big" sims as well - even us small developers have an incentive to develop the necessary drivers for interaction.

Okay, so we still need to come together at some point and create a common package. I could imagine that a joint game server with a pay for play scheme might be a business model that will make the (independent) developers consider if they shouldn't recycle the already finished integration work for the military to integrate their products for the consumers as well. I don't think it would work with a big game publisher though.

But give us some more time to develop really mature interfaces that are robust and capable. Soldiers make better guinea pigs than consumers. We need to work out the rough edges first.

Would be interested to 'integrate' this into FC2....

New Version of the SAM Simulator (v0.917) is avaiable.
LINK


It includes the situation of the 1st of May 1960, the famous U-2 shot of Francis Gary Powers above Sverdlovsk.

Cool!

Miao, Cat

2K11M1 KRUG (SA-4B Ganef) simulator under construction pictures...

Excellent, but I've not even started to lean the SA-3 yet

SA-3 is the Stealth killer.

You might had theoretical discussions about how the Serbians were able to down it...
(and if they done it once, why they were unable to duplicate it)
... now you can try it by yourself.

(The situation in the sim is exact representation of the events, personally from those, who were in the UNK cabin that night

Man, I love you guys doing this kind of sims, my hat off for you.

Gary Powers Jr, visiting the Almaz design bureau...
... looking at the system, that downed his fathers U2 plane.




Any similarity to the sam simulator, is not accidental...

What a fun simulator! I'm still learning the SA-3, but am a little confused by the 3 scenarios as it seems that every target turns away before getting within striking distance. I've re-tried them with the transmitter off the whole time (to see if I was scaring my prey off) but they still turn away after closing to within 30 km - not a great solution for a 25km missile!

edit: What am I doing wrong?

Hi,

As you not written any specific info, I could only guess...

1, You can select different battery by clicking at on the map, before you start the situation.

2, You need to wait for the next target.
Air attacks can lasts for more than 30min, as several attacker waves arrives.
The scenarios at the sim are from declassified (eastern, and western) military materials, and the timing is as it happened in reality.

3, Contrary to the practice of the firing ranges, real targets not used to fly head-on against the SAM battery...
... except if the target is a Wild Weasel, working on you.

Best Regards,
Hpasp

Here is the Sa-20 sim...

Realistic to the switch!


Or rather this:

Thank you, I've really found this program very interesting.

I have a few questions regarding S-75 system

1) What does the H<5 actually do (I know it's for low altitude targets), besides freeze the radar in wide-beam mode?

2) I've noticed a lot of undocumented switches, lights, and knobs on the Q screen. What do some of these do? In particular, what are the other fuse options besides normal and 100m?

3) Is there any way for users to make their own scenarios?

Quick Reply:

1, H<5
There is a safety switch in the SNR, that stops its movement down, when it is at zero degrees.
(before it rolls over

When this safety switch is locked, you cannot move it in elevation, before you unlock it.
(page 12, point 4 in the manual)

When your target flies low, it would be annoying to lock the SNR down accidentally, so there is H<5.

When you select H<5, your bore-sight is moved down by 3 degree, electronically.
(on the elevation [left] display, it is at -3 degree)

So you can safely target low flying targets, you will only lock-down at 3 degree below ground.

This mode can only be used with the 20degree wide beam antenna.
With Narrow beam, and LORO antennas, you cannot sink the bore-sight by 3 degree down electronically, as they are only 1,7 degree narrow.

2, There are several switches, that has effect, but not described in the manual.
(RAB-OT-VM, Elliptical Search, RAB na Fo/2, etc...)
The manual is already 50 pages, so I wanted to include only the most important ones.

There might be sometimes an advanced manual be released, describing these tricks.

FUSES:

STAN: normal mode 300m (for targets flying over 1,5 degree elevation)
RAB PO ADA: Against 50's spy balloons. It will detonate the warhead sooner, and cause the warhead fragments to impact in a bigger area.
ZAGRUB RV: Against targets releasing Chaff, with older type of missiles.
(it will not explode by chaff)
USU-ZAGRUB RV: Against targets releasing Chaff, with USU equipped missiles.
USU-NLC: 100m sensivity
USU-NC: For nuclear armed missiles.

3, In Hungary, you can add targets, and modify waypoints, speed altitude etc...

Thanks for the reply. I would be very interested in an advanced manual.

I get the impression that against medium altitude targets (2000m-5000m or even lower), if they get close and elevation is high, it is as good or better to use LOBO instead of H<5. Would you say this is possible?


Thanks for fuse settings. Is chaff modeled in the sim?

Yes, I am aware of Hungary. I was thinking though of the Cuban Missle Crisis, or earlier Vietnam Rolling Thunder scenarios, or use by Syria, or use by PRC against ROC. S-75 played a central role in world history for a quarter century, I think. Some way to build more complex scenarios would be very useful.

Thanks again for making this interesting sim. For a long time I was under the impression that the SA-2 (S-75) system used a semi-active radar homing terminal phase in addition to command guidence. But here I find out, no, the command guidence is just more accurate than one would expect. it's been very interesting.

SA-1 (S-25), SA-2 (S-75), SA-3 (S-125) used Track While Scan radar and Command Guided missiles
SA-4 (KRUG) used Monopulse radar and Command Guided missiles
SA-5 (S-200), SA-6 (KUB) used Continuous Wave radar, with Semi Active Radar Homing missiles

"I get the impression that against medium altitude targets (2000m-5000m or even lower), if they get close and elevation is high, it is as good or better to use LOBO instead of H<5. Would you say this is possible?"

It is possible, but strongly not recommended.
Your target can sink, and your SNR could lock down, causing the loosing of the target.

"Is chaff modeled in the sim?"

Chaff layer is simulated over Hanoi, when the B52's arrive...

"Some way to build more complex scenarios would be very useful."

All situations included are from declassified military material, as exact, as possible.
(routes, timing, jamming, etc...)
Real history is more interesting for me, than imaginary situations...

Yes, you're very right. After more practice, H<5 is the way to go.

I think your situations are very complex and VERY well done. I wasn't trying to suggest that they weren't. It's just that after I've already played all the missions- that's it...

Anyway, this is the best I've been able to do so far. Five kills during LinebackerII, 2 unknowns
(F-105Gs I suspect) and 3 F-4s.

First, think I got into a shootout with the wild weasels, which I somehow mannaged to win. I suspected this at the time because they were lower than the main raid and hit the deck when I engaged them. I had no idea they were shooting back until I read the debrief. I avoided the worst by being very disciplined with the radar transmitter. You don't need it much in the Linebacker mission anyway....

Next, I turned my attention to the main raid. My battery was southeast of the target area and after I shot down the second target, the raids had finished their bombing runs were turning off target and heading into my firing range. Some of the targets were able to jam the fan soing, but not the spoon rest and showed up as distinct, very large blips against the soup of ECM noise. So, I handed off the bearing and locked on (without turning my radar on) to the ECM signal with the fan song. I then used the spoon rest to feed real-time range information to I87V, rather than than getting the altitude off the plotting chart. (Besides, the plotting chart is next to useless in Linebacker. This is a massive airraid and the chart is unreadable in miutes.) The tactic seemed to work and I claimed two escorts. After the raids passed by I turned my attention to a flight at medium altitude to my north that happened to be in my firing circle. Again, I was able to get info from spoon rest and get another kill this way.

I think to moral of my story is how important it is to be disciplined with the fan song transmitter, and how much more useful spoon rest can be instead.

******************************************************
4:40am 19th of December 1972
Night-1, Wave-3 of the Linebacker-II raid against Hanoi.

Targets:
Kinh No Industrial Complex - 6 cells of B-52s (18)
Gia Lam Rail Road Yard - 4 cells of B-52s (12)
Hanoi Radio - 7 cells of B-52s (21)

Supporting force:
36 F-4 Phantom-II
6 F-105G Wild Weasel
2 EB-66B Destroyer
2 EA-6B Prowler
1 EC-135 Looking Glass
1 EC-121H AWACS.


45:55, F-105 Wild Weasel number 1 of pair-2 launched AGM-78 Standard ARM missile.


47:06, Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 39km
Target azimuth: 253°
Target elevation: 3°
Target altitude: 2.5km
SNR mode: Wide Beam - 75km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)


47:36, Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 29km
Target azimuth: 253°
Target elevation: 3°
Target altitude: 1.9km
SNR mode: Wide Beam - 75km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)


47:50, Missile exploded on Channel-1
killed by SAM. (miss distance: 9m)

48:26, F-105 Wild Weasel number 1 of pair-2 launched AGM-45 Shrike missile.

48:46, B-52 number 1 of cell-2 bombed Hanoi Radio.
49:01, B-52 number 2 of cell-2 bombed Hanoi Radio.

49:18, Missile launched on Channel-3
Target distance: 28km
Target azimuth: 252°
Target elevation: 8°
Target altitude: 4.1km
SNR mode: Wide Beam H<5 - 75km
Missile guidance method: K (Half Lead Elevated By Constans)

49:18, B-52 number 3 of cell-2 bombed Hanoi Radio.
49:51, B-52 number 1 of cell-1 bombed Kinh No Industrial Complex.

49:52, Missile exploded on Channel-3
killed by SAM. (miss distance: 7m)
50:09, B-52 number 2 of cell-1 bombed Kinh No Industrial Complex.
50:27, B-52 number 3 of cell-1 bombed Kinh No Industrial Complex.
51:20, B-52 number 1 of cell-4 bombed Gia Lam Railroad Yard.
51:23, B-52 number 2 of cell-4 bombed Gia Lam Railroad Yard.
51:29, B-52 number 1 of cell-3 bombed Hanoi Radio.
51:44, B-52 number 2 of cell-3 bombed Hanoi Radio.
51:52, B-52 number 3 of cell-4 bombed Gia Lam Railroad Yard.
52:01, B-52 number 3 of cell-3 bombed Hanoi Radio.
54:50, B-52 number 1 of cell-5 bombed Kinh No Industrial Complex.
54:58, B-52 number 2 of cell-5 bombed Kinh No Industrial Complex.
55:10, B-52 number 3 of cell-5 bombed Kinh No Industrial Complex.

57:40, Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 51km
Target azimuth: 308°
Target elevation: 9°
Target altitude: 8.2km
SNR mode: Wide Beam - 75km
Missile guidance method: I87V/TT (I87V Three Point)

57:53, B-52 number 1 of cell-6 bombed Gia Lam Railroad Yard.
57:58, B-52 number 2 of cell-6 bombed Gia Lam Railroad Yard.
58:03, B-52 number 3 of cell-6 bombed Gia Lam Railroad Yard.

59:00, Missile exploded on Channel-1
F-4 number 1 of pair-4 escorting the bombers killed by SAM. (miss distance: 32m)
02:54, B-52 number 1 of cell-7 bombed Kinh No Industrial Complex.
03:10, B-52 number 2 of cell-7 bombed Kinh No Industrial Complex.
03:29, B-52 number 3 of cell-7 bombed Kinh No Industrial Complex.
04:08, B-52 number 1 of cell-8 bombed Hanoi Radio.
04:22, B-52 number 2 of cell-8 bombed Hanoi Radio.
04:36, B-52 number 3 of cell-8 bombed Hanoi Radio.
06:26, B-52 number 1 of cell-9 bombed Hanoi Radio.
06:40, B-52 number 2 of cell-9 bombed Hanoi Radio.
06:55, B-52 number 3 of cell-9 bombed Hanoi Radio.
06:57, B-52 number 1 of cell-10 bombed Kinh No Industrial Complex.
07:16, B-52 number 2 of cell-10 bombed Kinh No Industrial Complex.
07:38, B-52 number 3 of cell-10 bombed Kinh No Industrial Complex.
08:04, B-52 number 1 of cell-13 bombed Gia Lam Railroad Yard.
08:19, B-52 number 2 of cell-13 bombed Gia Lam Railroad Yard.
08:33, B-52 number 3 of cell-13 bombed Gia Lam Railroad Yard.

09:04, Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 43km
Target azimuth: 321°
Target elevation: 11°
Target altitude: 8.6km
SNR mode: Wide Beam - 75km
Missile guidance method: I87V/TT (I87V Three Point)


10:07, Missile exploded on Channel-1
F-4 number 1 of pair-6 escorting the bombers killed by SAM. (miss distance: 23m)
10:29, B-52 number 1 of cell-14 bombed Gia Lam Railroad Yard.
10:43, B-52 number 2 of cell-14 bombed Gia Lam Railroad Yard.
10:58, B-52 number 3 of cell-14 bombed Gia Lam Railroad Yard.
11:39, B-52 number 1 of cell-11 bombed Kinh No Industrial Complex.
11:53, B-52 number 2 of cell-11 bombed Kinh No Industrial Complex.
12:08, B-52 number 3 of cell-11 bombed Kinh No Industrial Complex.
12:54, B-52 number 1 of cell-15 bombed Hanoi Radio.
13:08, B-52 number 2 of cell-15 bombed Hanoi Radio.
13:23, B-52 number 3 of cell-15 bombed Hanoi Radio.
14:01, B-52 number 1 of cell-12 bombed Kinh No Industrial Complex.
14:14, B-52 number 2 of cell-12 bombed Kinh No Industrial Complex.
14:27, B-52 number 3 of cell-12 bombed Kinh No Industrial Complex.
15:07, B-52 number 1 of cell-16 bombed Hanoi Radio.
15:20, B-52 number 2 of cell-16 bombed Hanoi Radio.
15:33, B-52 number 3 of cell-16 bombed Hanoi Radio.
17:15, B-52 number 1 of cell-17 bombed Hanoi Radio.
17:29, B-52 number 2 of cell-17 bombed Hanoi Radio.
17:41, B-52 number 3 of cell-17 bombed Hanoi Radio.

19:11, Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 18km
Target azimuth: 25°
Target elevation: 8°
Target altitude: 2.8km
SNR mode: Wide Beam H<5 - 75km
Missile guidance method: I87V/TT (I87V Three Point)


23:23, Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 7km
Target azimuth: 354°
Target elevation: 20°
Target altitude: 2.7km
SNR mode: Wide Beam H<5 - 75km
Missile guidance method: I87V/TT (I87V Three Point)


23:51, Missile exploded on Channel-2
F-4 number 2 of pair-1 blocking Noi Bai airfield killed by SAM. (miss distance: 59m)

25:30, Missile launched on Channel-3
Target distance: 21km
Target azimuth: 12°
Target elevation: 22°
Target altitude: 8.2km
SNR mode: Wide Beam H<5 - 75km
Missile guidance method: I87V/TT (I87V Three Point)


Total, SNR On Air Time: 8min 10sec

Commander Nguyen Van Phiet of the 261/57 SAM battalion, describing how to shoot down a B-52. He downed three. (Brick 01, Tan 03, Scarlet 03)

See the drawing on the board.

Great thread, hpasp. I haven't had the opportunity to write up a review, but I haven't forgotten. We're watching, and we all think your efforts are outstanding.

Miao, Cat

Thanks,

After my holidays, you will be able to got close relationship with the first eastern MONOPULSE SAM system.
It was never exported beyond the iron curtain, and has secret capability against Nuclear Tactical Ballistic Missiles...
... ~30 years earlier than the Patriot flop at the Gulf War.

Upcoming KRUG (SA-4B Ganef) indicators:

Angle Officer's IPP instrument



Range Officer's instrument

Downloaded it some days ago and I'm really having a great time with the S-75. Next step is to try the S-125. Looking forward to the SA-4 too.

BTW, didn't the wild weasels target search/acquisition radars (i.e. spoon rest) during Linebacker II? As there is no option to turn off it in the simulation it shocked me at first that it wasn't being destroyed.

You will be shocked more, if you learn, that Wild Weasels were unable to target P-18 Spoon Rest (metric wavelength) radars during Operation Allied Force, over Serbia in 1999.

The small head of the AGM-88 HARM missile is not capable to guide on metric wavelenght.
(Simply physics...)


This is one of the main reason, why the F-117A was lost over Serbia, as the Spoon Rest's were able to work without any danger.


(Serbian P-18 Spoon Rest During OAF, 1999)



The SA-4B (KRUG) simulator is ready, currently I'm working on the English language documentation...

Next year, the Big Stick will come...
... the SA-5B Gammon, the biggest SAM ever deployed.




(Now the Iranians are muscling with that...)

The 2K11M1 KRUG (SA-4B Ganef) simulator will be released within weeks.
(the program itself is ready, the documentation is not yet)

I'm patiently waiting for it!

The new version of the SAM Simulator (v918) is ready.

It expands the already simulated systems,
the SA-2E Guideline (S-75M3 Volkhov), and the SA-3B Goa (S-125M1 Neva)

with the newly added

SA-4B Ganef (2K11 KRUG-M1).

It can be downloaded from here:
SAM SIMULATOR HOMEPAGE

Excellent! Just had my first kill from it, after much head-scratching I will admit. I thought the 'target designation mode' switch was up....when actually it was only in the middle "why isn't the radar rotating..why..."

Now the actual learning of the system can begin!

Practice target LA-17MV [Program-1] simulating EA-6 Prowler killed by SAM. (miss distance: 22m)

Congratulation.
You need to decrease the ON-AIR time also.

The toughest target will be the SCUD-A missile.
At some point, it will overfly the 1S12M1 SOC detection zone...

I love this sim! I've finally abandoned my beloved SA-2 in favor of the SA-4. It's a lot more complex, and I've probably barely even scratched the surface of learning the system. But man this thing is fun to use!



The only problems I've noticed is not all of the systems work backwards. For example, while shutting down the SA-4, if you lower the antenna and engage the travel lock the radar display is still lit. Also, I can change the radar modes, and the right side of the radar mode select box stays lit instead of reverting to all of the left side lights being on. Of course, this is a overly minor thing that probably only bothers me, lol.

Thanks,

Stowing the Antenna tower is done at different order, I will be include it in the next minor correction version.
(There is one button at the K04-9M1 that is not discussed in the manual...)

Step-0, Turn off the transmitter
Step-1, Rotate the antennas to zero position with that button (the four epsilon/beta zero light will light up)
Step-2, Stowe the antenna tower with the deploy switch
Step-3, Lock it

You know, that these infos are that James Bond risked his life 25 years ago...

Ah, good to know. And yes, it's odd to think that people risked their lives years ago for what is common information today.

Another thing I noticed is the manual doesn't cover all of the steps to engage multiple targets. It covers the two buttons for a soft/hard reset, but it doesn't cover how to reset the LONGTRACK radar so you can designate a new target. If anyone is wondering how to do it, there's a switch to the left of the mode select switch (which is to the left of the gyro switches). Flipping this switch up and then back down seems to reset the LONGTRACK, returning your target select cursor.

Ah thanks! I was just going to ask this.

You are right, its the left one...

[/quote]

Great shot, but if your SNR is on the air for more than one minute, than your performance is evaluated as
"does not meet the requirements".

Yah, That was my first intercept after I figured out how to work the basic systems. At that point I wasn't too concerned with remaining hidden, as much as just trying to hit that SCUD, lol.

The new version of the SAM Simulator (v0.919) is available.
SAM SIMULATOR HOMEPAGE

All scenarios can be played with each of the simulated SAM systems.
The KRUG doc is extended with the "SOC request new target designation" switch.
The antenna tower can be stowed now.

Very cool, thanks!

Out of interest do you have a full list of the Version History? it would be interesting to see the evolution of the SAM Simulator..

I've just tried to shoot down the SR-71 with a fictional Krug in Vietnam. It makes shooting down the Asuluk Scud look easy - you get a whole new perspective on why the SR-71 guys consider themselves almost invincible... the thin-ness of the valid launch zone is breath-taking...

Hi Hpasp and all others
At first thanks for this nice simulator. However I noticed that in the latest version (0.919) is one mission from 1970 - War of Attrition not available although it was available in previous version (0.918). It is the fifth mission - day VII.3.
Regards

The SR-71 guys were always turning beside the target (ruining intercept point prediction), never flown directly ahead...
... and of course, they were jamming like hell.

If I EVER GET FIVE FRAKING MINUTES I want to try to hit a Scud with the SA-2. hehehehehe

Miao, Cat

Oh, a question: Does the sim work with Win7?

I'm still planning to do a writeup. I just haven't had time-been in court or traveling-and I'm out of town again all next week.

Miao, Cat

Yes

Hi
Two questions. Was anybody able to shoot down SR-71 with 2K11 Krug? And was anybody able to shoot it down with any type of SAM in the third scenario (XII. 19. - 14:40) and with which battery?
Regards

This seems like a really interesting sim . I've been wondering, are the missiles modelled physically, with regard to their manoeuvrability and also is the 'three point' method of guidance mainly used in the presence of jammers? I ask this because this form of guidance is pretty sub-optimal, so will impair the range of the missile. Also the pure pursuit style of intercept requires that the target being track not take severe evasive measures (such as would be executed by an agile tactical fighter aircraft), as only a very manoeuvrabale missile will be able to complete the interception.

Missiles, and targets are modeled in the digital area, with 1/10th sec accuracy.
When the missile, and the target is close enough, the modeling accuracy increased to 1/100 sec.

Three Point is only a backup method in case of the S-75M, and the S-125M (SA-2/3), when jamming cannot be burned through.
The main method is the Half lead, or the K.

Three point is still the best method with command guidance, if the jammer denies the range information.

Do not forget, that when these systems were designed, what "agile fighter" meant...
... these are 50 years old weapons!!!

Thanks for the reply Hpasp

In terms of turning performance do you know what these early generation missiles were/are capable of? I know the U.S Nike Hercules initially had a 7G limit, which was later increased to 10G.

Also you mentioned 'Half Lead' & 'K' guidance. I assume 'K' is an intercept trajectory but how his half lead calculate and when is it advantageous?

Thanks

Hi,

If you download the simulator, and install it, English language documentation is describing all type of data, and guidance method...
... overload capability is depending on missile type:

SA-2
2.5-3g

SA-3
6g

SA-4
6g

SA-5 (depending on altitude)
H=0km 6g
H=20km 10g
H=35km 2.5g

Your next workplace, to be implemented into the SAM Simulator:

*drools*

I love the long range stuff.

I promise you the longest range stuff of the Cold War.

And also I can promise to you the biggest target acquisition radar of the Cold War...
... 33 meters (110 feet) wide, and 11 meters (36 feet) tall. (NATO Code: Tall King)

Thanks for the info Hpasp
I'm downloading the sim now, so hopefully I'll be able to get stuck into it over the next few days.

BTW, would I be correct in assuming half lead guidance is different to intercept guidance, i.e with half lead the missile leads the target, but doesn't initially head for the intercept point?

Wow... I've got it to less than 1:17 but shaving that last bit is hard...

Also I haven't managed to successfully use half lead yet - all my shots so far have been 3 point guidance. Nothing has happened when in half-K when pushing the Launch button. Anything un-obvious I will have missed?

Was the launcher in the forbidden zone?
(launcher pointing toward the SNR)

Please find the doc:

page 25, point 6
page 37, column description

It fired immediately in 3 point, but nothing in half-K - I assume some goof on switchology (user error) but no idea what.

The restricted firing zone is wider in 1/2, than in 3T, because of the large lead of the missile.
The SPU was in the wide restricted zone of the 1/2 method, launching was forbidden.
When you switched to 3T, where the restricted zone is much narrower, the SPU got outside of it, and you were able to launch.

No something is wrong, I can not get a ready light in 1/2lead. Switch to 3T on it goes so i can launch. Not bad tho I still hit.
And that last SR-21 scenario. The aircraft is allways above the envelope. Ive tried I87V distance input instead of altitude. Allways miss.
How does the SR-71 know that Im switching my APP-75v range to <75 when transmitter is off? Because as soon as I do he starts jamming?
Can guidence switch midflight to 1/2 lead?

These two questions are getting deeper, that the SIM documentation...
... so these will be long answers.


"How does the SR-71 know that Im switching my APP-75v range to <75 when transmitter is off? Because as soon as I do he starts jamming?"

In Vietnam, the USAF started to use the RWR's, that would alarm the crew in case a missile is launched.
It receives the command guidance signals emitted by the SNR to guide the missile, and alarms the crew.
The crew in response would drop their bombs, to gain maneuverability, thus abort mission.

When this was recognized by the Soviets, the SNR's were field modified to allow emitting missile command guidance signals, without launch of a missile.
(This is where the 10'000 launched missile number came from...)
On the Q screen, below the right corner of the left "K1hE" instrument is a green lamp, named RPK.
When it is lighted up, then you are emitting command guidance signals.

So when the SNR is in BR mode, and 75km resolution, it will start to emit false command guidance signals, and the SR-71 start to jam.

These two questions are getting deeper, that the SIM documentation...
... so these will be long answers.


"Can guidence switch midflight to 1/2 lead?"

You can change it (at least in theory), but it will add severe dynamical error to the guidance equation.
To have enough time for the missile to reduce this error, there is a rule, that you shouldn't do it when the missile-target remaining flight time is less than 25 second.

At the "A" screen, there is a red lamp between the displays, illuminating when it is too late to change...

"So when the SNR is in BR mode, and 75km resolution, it will start to emit false command guidance signals, and the SR-71 start to jam"

BR mode?=Narrow Beam?
What does the H>15 switch do in the I-64V panel SA-2E?
And the Primary-Continous switch on the K04-1M1 panel SA-4B?
Why does the SR-71 sometimes jam sometimes doesnt in the SA-4B scenario?

BR mode?=Narrow Beam?

"live fire mode"
Please check included documentation, page 33, point 5.

What does the H>15 switch do in the I-64V panel SA-2E?

H<1, or H<5, or H>18 ???

And the Primary-Continous switch on the K04-1M1 panel SA-4B?

It changes the target designation mode of the SOC, when using PNS by the SNR.
Please check included documentation, page 26, point 1.

Why does the SR-71 sometimes jam sometimes doesnt in the SA-4B scenario?
Hmmm, I should check it...

H>18 Sorry using a lcd flatscreen not in native resolution. looked like a 15.

So Continous=IS32 (PatHand)
Primary=IS12 (LongTrack)
and should be Continous to Fire?


The random jamming is only SA-4B
Allways jamming in SA-2E scenerios.

H>18 should be used, when your target is flying over 18km altitude.
Changing this switch will change the missile guidance equation.
(narrow guidance vs wide guidance channel)

[if you forgot to switch, you loose only few percent of hitting chance...]
... so it is not described in the manual.


So Continous=IS32 (PatHand)
Primary=IS12 (LongTrack)
and should be Continous to Fire?

Nononono!
Please read the manual.
Primary is used, when the SOC is transmitting target data for the SNR target acquisition.
Continuous is used, when the SOC is transmitting target data for the SNR "PNS" target tracking mode.

Well, that's what I could get vis-a-vis the SR-71:

13:45 19th of December, 1972.
SR-71 bomb damage assessment flight number one.

2K11 KRUG-M1

13:03, Missile launched
Target distance: 78km
Target azimuth: 191°
Target elevation: 17°
Target altitude: 23,9km
Missile guidance method: TT (Three Point)

14:10, Missile exploded
SR-71 Habu hit by SAM. (miss distance: 223m)

Total, SNR On Air Time: 1min 32sec

Little concern, because for the SR-71, I think, almost any damage (or even a turbulence caused by near miss) during flight with such parameters would mean crash.
Of course, it took me a few occasions to score any hit (one that I did not record was as near as 167 m). What's interesting, you can get better results using 3T rather than 1/2 guidance method (no hit at all), which seems surprising when engaging such a fast mover...
Ah, and he NEVER attempted to jam.

Hpasp, thanks again for a new set of enjoyable whiles behind the "pusk" and accompanying stuff.
By the way, does the Krug have its own "K3" option? I deplore watching the missiles bypassing targets at the range display without detonating...

Last but not least - as you are planning to make your fans happy with the SA-75M, will you attempt to simulate the visual channel? (I know that it's a backup one, nevertheless... :))) )

SR-71 were able to fly back from a sortie over Vietnam, with several (SA-2 made) holes in its tail fin.

Ah, and he NEVER attempted to jam

That is a mistake in the current version.
In the current version, the SR-71's RWR is only alarms upon SA-2 illumination.

At the next version, it will be sensible for SA-2/3/4/5 also.

By the way, does the Krug have its own "K3" option?

It has no K3, as it could be jammed easily...
... shown in Vietnam.

You either launch normally, or arm the fuse right after the launch.
manual page 46, point 8.

Last but not least - as you are planning to make your fans happy with the SA-75M, will you attempt to simulate the visual channel? (I know that it's a backup one, nevertheless... :))) )

Currently Im working on the S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B Gammon) system.

You can start to learn these panels...
... the Cold War longest range system.
S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B Gammon)

Target Acquisition Officers workplace


Target Tracking Officers workplace


Firing Officers workplace

to vintorez - nice catch of that Habu anyway

to Hpasp - question - is it possible to burn through jamming with SA-4 as with SA-2 and SA-3? - in Vietnam scenario no matter how close is jamming fighter it still jams SA-4 range information

PN79: more on that topic (the odds in the 1440 scenario):

14:40 19th of December, 1972.
SR-71 bomb damage assessment flight number two.

S-75M3 Volkhov


52:24, Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 84km
Target azimuth: 256°
Target elevation: 16°
Target altitude: 23,9km
SNR mode: Narrow Beam - 150km
Missile guidance method: UPR (Half Lead)


52:32, Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 78km
Target azimuth: 257°
Target elevation: 17°
Target altitude: 23,9km
SNR mode: Narrow Beam - 150km
Missile guidance method: UPR (Half Lead)


52:38, Missile launched on Channel-3
Target distance: 74km
Target azimuth: 258°
Target elevation: 18°
Target altitude: 23,9km
SNR mode: Narrow Beam - 150km
Missile guidance method: I87V/TT (I87V Three Point)


53:34, Missile exploded on Channel-2
SR-71 Habu hit by SAM. (miss distance: 264m)

Total, SNR On Air Time: 3min 56sec

The path is as follows: track him at narrow beam (greater range) in 150 km resolution (not to make him jamming), set the I87V/TT for the station and UPR at the missile. Successful tracking will quite accurately feed the I87V, so when he starts to jam (at your launch moment at the latest, see Hpasp's explanations above), the missiles will "have some idea" where to fly, because "track" will be maintained by I87V.
This all provided that he SR-71 doesn't come to an idea to make slightiest turn in the meantime...

I also experimented with switching the missile guidance from I87V to UPR at some 30th kilometer of the missile flight (launch when the SR-71 is in the middle of the envelope). Switching 10 km up or down makes huuuuuuuuge error . I scored a hit (still, not a kill).

To Hpasp: how big is the missile (SA-2) damage radius as modelled in the sim? Does it vary? ShTAN fuse has only 300 m of sensivity. In operational sense: will K3 bring greater chances to damage in case the ShTAN would't be triggered anyway? (I mean the case of a SR-71 when triggering the radio fuse is rare, due to huge computing errors). Setting aside using K3 at very small altitudes - easy to understand, tried with success

Et voila!

14:40 19th of December, 1972.
SR-71 bomb damage assessment flight number two.

S-75M3 Volkhov


56:18, Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 83km
Target azimuth: 256°
Target elevation: 16°
Target altitude: 23,9km
SNR mode: Wide Beam - 150km
Missile guidance method: UPR (Half Lead)


56:30, Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 74km
Target azimuth: 258°
Target elevation: 18°
Target altitude: 23,9km
SNR mode: Wide Beam - 150km
Missile guidance method: UPR (Half Lead)


56:42, Missile launched on Channel-3
Target distance: 67km
Target azimuth: 260°
Target elevation: 20°
Target altitude: 23,9km
SNR mode: Wide Beam - 150km
Missile guidance method: UPR (Half Lead)


57:17, Missile exploded on Channel-1

57:24, Missile exploded on Channel-2
SR-71 Habu killed by SAM. (miss distance: 27m)

57:32, Missile exploded on Channel-3

Total, SNR On Air Time: 4min 14sec

Fusing was set for K3.

Congrats and thank for info. I was able to shoot it down only in the second Vietnam scenario (13:45). Now I will try to do it also in this scenario (my previous attemts were unsuccessful).

is it possible to burn through jamming with SA-4 as with SA-2 and SA-3? - in Vietnam scenario no matter how close is jamming fighter it still jams SA-4 range information

The KRUG (as it was the first mobile SAM system), is emitting much weaker impulses, compared to the fixed SAM systems, so I do not expect successful burn through.

how big is the missile (SA-2) damage radius as modelled in the sim? Does it vary?

It is depending on altitude, against the SR71, it should be around 300m the maximum.

Thanks for explanation.

"The path is as follows: track him at narrow beam (greater range) in 150 km resolution (not to make him jamming), set the I87V/TT for the station and UPR at the missile. Successful tracking will quite accurately feed the I87V, so when he starts to jam (at your launch moment at the latest, see Hpasp's explanations above), the missiles will "have some idea" where to fly, because "track" will be maintained by I87V.
This all provided that he SR-71 doesn't come to an idea to make slightiest turn in the meantime..."

The Habu is continuously climbing as the fuel is used up. This effect is modeled in the SAMSIM, but it seems to be not enough to ruin the effectiveness of the I87V.

SR-71 Habu killed by SAM. (miss distance: 27m)

Congratulation!

Where was the wreck fallen?
If it fallen outside of the defended country, than it will be hard to prove the kill...