Sopwith Dolphin

Wow RAF No. 19 Squadron's bread and butter plane nice one

Ming

Man those are beautiful !

Will there be a Albatros fighter of some kind ?
How about a Pfalz DIII, I know theres a DXII already?

Ain't that the truth.

Those images are too beautiful to describe!

I

CAN'T

WAIT!

Copterdrvr

Actually, I've just bought my first new computer since 2000! They have come on a bit from my old Athlon 1Ghz with Voodoo 5500 card. Looking forward to buying the Il-2 all-in-one and seeing what flight-sims look like in the modern age.

And I have to say I have a better feeling about this than any of the previous efforts. Wings with Wires were always on a no-win trying to do it in their spare time as a hobby. But here, working with a tried and proven engine and kicking out reular updates, and with the benefit of working somewhere where the cost of living makes it more practical - I think they have a very real chance of getting this one to market.

They could use the Il-2 enginee as is with new models, maps and campaigns and I'd be pretty happy. It's been so long...

Hey, seeing all these "well-worn" previews over and over again gives me a good feeling about this one.

*paint chips* *mars* *oil residue*

(GT seems just fine with taking the extra time required for adding such embellishments).

A slightly Off topic question :
DFo you know a good historical WWI forum ?

Thank you in advance

For aviation part of WW1, Aerodrome is the best.

http://www.theaerodrome.com/

Thank you, I will have a look, before playing ...

Just did a quick look through. At present Gennadich have shown us these planes:

Allied Scouts
Nieuport 17 *!
Nieuport 28 *!
Sopwith Camel F.1 *!
Sopwith Dolphin I
Sopwith Pup *!
Sopwith 7F.1 Snipe *
SPAD VII.C1 *
SPAD XIII C.1 *!

Allied Multi-seat planes
Airco DH4 *
Airco DH9 !
Bristol F.2b *!

German Scouts
Fokker D.VII *!
Fokker DrI *!
Pfalz D.XII *


German Multi-seat planes
DFWC 5
GOTHA *
Halberstadt CL.2 *!
Rumpler C.IV *

* present in Red Baron II/3D
! present in Flying Corps

Which leaves these planes which were present in either RB or FC:

Allied Scouts
Airco DH2
Morane Bullet
Nieuport 11
Nieuport 24
SE5a
Sompith Triplane

Allied Multi-seat planes
BE2
Breguet 14
FE2b
Handley-Page
RE8
Salmson 2a2
Sopwith 1.5 Strutter

German Scouts
Albatros DII
Albatros DIII
Albatros DVa
Fokker E.III
Halberstadt DII
Pfalz DIII

German Multi-seat planes
Albatros CIII
Aviatik C.I
Hannover CLII
Roland CII

I imagine the SE5a and the Albatros DIII and DVa are almost definitely on the list to be modelled; probably the Sopwith Triplane too. Interesting to see what we do wnd up with; to the best of my knowledge the Dolphin is a first appearance in a commercial sim.

I can sooooooo live with pay-for addons!
Even more than with IL2/FB which I have all of!

Perhaps addons can be through Steam?

Me too Neal......it's a scheme I've been trying to impress upon both Third Wire and GT's designers recently.....and one I promoted on the SimHQ forum here for Aspect's now defunct Knights Over Europe effort way back when.

Incorporating the add-on (modular) build concept into a sim's original design and marketing plans makes so much sense today.

First, considering a build process that can span multiple expansion modules, acknowledges the complexities and market forces that make it difficult to get a combat flight sim from the designer's drawing board to the retailer's product shelves these days. Obviously, if a project fails to meet it's required development deadlines, it is in jeopardy of ever being released. We've seen many promising sims come and go (for the WWI era especially), and much of this legacy of failure has occurred because design teams were too small to the task, or the original concept was too unmanageble in size and scope to be sensibly realized.

I remember harping on the KOE forum years ago that "less is more", and that when a design team entertains the idea of making a high-fidelity simulation, they should at first think about their "survival"......that is, being able to sustain the quality and intergrity of their build-process over time, and being able to deliver a product at the end of that process. With this imperative in mind, delivering a high-quality, marketable product in a timely manner becomes the most important objective.....without delivery, all else is failure.

In this same vein then, careful consideration should be made of how to deliver on the desired end-goal with the resources available, while minimizing the difficulties that threaten that goal. In this regards, designers and customers need to allow themselves the latitude to realize success, by making the goal attainable from the onset, and by keeping the on-going process practical. In this regard "doing less is more" becomes the imperative, in that keeping the build process targeted, promotes the attainment of the ultimate objective.....delivering a high-quality product at the end of the process. So from the beginning of the process, when analysing what sim package can be practically designed should occur, the ultimate goal of final delivery must be weighed against what the market will support. This is where customer expectations enter into the equation of whether a product, once delivered, is ultimately successful.......what ultimately are those most important customer expectations that must be fulfilled!

This is the area I reserve my criticism for not only a sim's designers, but for us simmers too, in that designers must have the discipline to realize that they can't deliver on each customer's personal expectations, but that they must try to satisfy their ultimate objective of finally delivering that marketable product that most cutomers will want to buy. As simmers and potential customers, we also have a responsibility in allowing designers to reach their goals of final delivery, and that once realized, that the end-product is something that will satisfy our expectations. As an example, would it be practical for us simmers to expect the inclusion of one hundred high-quality aircraft in an equally high-quality, high-fidelity sim today, before we would consider buying it? Should WWI simmers demand up-front that the whole land mass of Flanders & England should be modeled, and with requisite detail, before we would consider buying that either? Demanding delivery, and maintaining expectations that are impractical to realize, and ultimately unrealistic to hold, does neither sim designers or us customers any good. In the end, maintaining impossible expectations can mean the failure of both designers and customers to realize their mutual goal......having a product delivered to the marketplace in the end.

With these factors in mind, the process of building a sim's content over a series of mutually complimentary releases, would seem like a way to assure delivery of both. The modular "add-on" concept allows the designer's time to accomplish their goals in a timely manner, while allowing simmers to receive continued support on their original investment. The add-on scheme allows for a mutually supporting and beneficial "system" to coexist between the producer of a product and the users of the product, in that it inherently recognizes that both sides of the marketplace need each other to survive!

In summation (finally), I think most simmers recognize we depend on the survival of game designers to be able to get the products we desire to buy, and without their staying in business we have little chance of seeing our hobby continuing on into the future. For this reason we must mutally support each other, and both get something out of our relationship together. Like many consumers nowadays, I have high expectations over the products I'm willing to buy, but I also realize that what I buy expresses what I value too. In the end I'm casting a vote for what I individually value, want, and need. I think most us here on this SimHQ forum want to allow GT to be successful at giving us something we're wanting, and are hoping the relationship results in our mutual benefit. I'm also hoping GT will be around to continue their support of this and maybe other products, so that this hobby of ours continues to grow and prosper into the future........those are my greatest expectations (and desires).

Very well written. The nail has truly been hit precisely on the head.

I'm willing to start off with a basic core selection of aircraft operating in a relatively confined area-especially if I'm assured that bigger and better things are to come in the near future.

If it looks real purdy and they fly real good, I can live wid it for a bit.

Copterdrvr

I can see that the addon model might need some things:

1) All addons should not be required to play online. What maps and planes are used should be by the server.

2) Same for offline, the mission sets the needs.

3) The sim engine should be set in concrete, new version means new game. It will make addons not needing updates and always the same standard for addon makers, see #5.

4) Distribution of addons... avoid stores and go direct online? This part is MOST difficult to beat piracy. However below I try to show a way to do this.

5) Gennadich able to have outside parties make planes, maps, whatever, with approval on a percentage fee basis.

Piracy limit strategy:
Game purchased must be registered and given a unique registration number to play. Addon purchase would require the registration. Addon would be keyed to only that registration.

Not perfect by any means as one person could still make copies for friends but one sale being made into 1000's of game copies becomes less feasable when the addons those people want must also be provided by the same a-hole that made the copies. A few questions in register, not just what is your number and copies floating around do get known by the makers who flag that registration for no more addons. Since addons come out over time there is time to kill the pirate copies.
Not perfect but compare to copy protection on disk that gets broken quickly and limits legitimate sales.

Just some ideas. I am sure that marketing and business people can improve on or point out the fatal flaws in them.

Neal,

I think I agree with with your points 1 & 2, if you're expressing that adding content such as maps, planes, and mission packs should remain a choice, and by electing to add or not add content should not cause an online server to loose functionality, or for a person's game to become obsolete (no one is wanting anyone to be forced to buy add-on content if they don't want too). This is why I see "patches" and "add-ons" as performing different functions, with patches aimed at upgrading a sim's core code (and this upgrading should remain free as has been the gaming industry practice), while add-on modules would allow for the expansion of the sim's coverage, with new models and any needed maps and missions included, and these modules would be purchased for a fee. Still, any code changes needed to enable new add-on content to function, or to upgrade the basic sim's operation should remain available for anyone wanting to patch their installation for free.

The boon to a designer-driven add-on scheme, is that it would represent the "official" means of expanding a sim's core content. Having the originators of the sim involved in its on-going expansion would go a long way towards promoting the quality of new add-on content, and control it's availability, while assuring its compatability when installed, as well as any on-going support needed.

Another bonus to an officially-sanctioned (and promoted) add-on concept, could be the greater frequency that new content could become available, and the modest per unit charge needed to cover the production and profit costs to market these new modules. With more nominal pricing being possible with this scheme of more frequent expansion availabilty, some might even feel less inclined to pirate new content, because it would be so relatively inexpensive to buy in the first place!

Now let me to link some artwork that I previewed on GT's forum awhile back, showing just some ideas of what these add-on packs could cover (we're not talking big "title-like" expansions here, but contained and "themematic" content):





Allowing each of us to select which modules we choose to include in our sim's expansion, giving us the option to "grow our own sim" over time.......to custom tailor our sim's content to the periods and plane's which we most want to try. I have a feeling that most of us in the end will want to get them all.....especially if it's an affordable process to do so.....which should be a hallmark of the whole concept anyway (as conceived from the start).

Hey, let me also thank Copterdrvr for his comments and input into the conversation here, as well as those ideas that Neal is expanding on......besides talkin' about this stuff comes easy, but in some small way maybe it could result in some tangible, and positive results......who knows!

!!ENGLANDGESCHWADER!!

I think I'm looking forward to GT's sim more than BOB.

Oh, I forgot to mention that the above expansion "themes" were grafted onto artwork by Stan Stokes (which I took off an advertising website), and they represent hypothetical ideas about add-on modules for GT's upcoming WWI sim.

"!!ENGLANDGESCHWADER!!"

I like that one too Oilburner.

Gilman Louie showed the way ahead with his very sucessful Falcon3.
The base sim was followed by Mig-29 and F-18 addons and additional campaign locations. Each spread the work load and maintained sales of the base sim well past the normal first wave.
The addons had the cash flow equivalent of a new sim going out the door every six months. That suported and maintained an enthusiastic team for several years.
The same was intended with Falcon4 but we can see the result when Gilman sold and the new management abandoned the base strategy.

That's what we're talkin' about.....maintaining enthusiasm (and support) for both the design team, as well as for the sim's fan-base, with more frequent content releases.

Hey a bit off the present subject, but related to Oilburner's enthusiastic post above, here's a good link to a bit of history on the Englandgeschwader:

http://www.angelfire.com/hi5/tgenth/gotha/GothaGIVe.htm#p2e