Sorry for the late reply, but was going to post something like 'Retro sims rock!' but then got to thinking why that is. So, I've got to realize that while many things have changed over the last 25-30 years, the games that give me enjoyment haven't...and what I seem to appreciate is comparatively simple gameplay. It's like some complexity thereshold where a game flips from 'fun' to 'too much work'. For a particular genre, that threshold occurred in the late 1990s. eg those city building games from Sierra, for which the first I remember playing was 'Caesar III' around 1997. Its successor 'Pharoah/cleopatra' was an improvement and I played the hell out of it. After that came 'Zeus' in around 2000 which while basically the same game, they had added more 'things to do' and I hardly played it all. In terms of sims, the best by far was 'F-22ADF/TAW' which was reasonably easy to learn and a blast to play. 'Falcon 4' went into the 'too much work' category despite my efforts to get into it.
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)
#4621679 - 02/28/2305:21 PMRe: Think I'm coming out of my mid-life stupor / some Fleet Defender source
[Re: mikew]
Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 121,679PanzerMeyer
Pro-Consul of Florida
PanzerMeyer
Pro-Consul of Florida
King Crimson - SimHQ's Top Poster
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,679
Miami, FL USA
Originally Posted by mikew
It's like some complexity thereshold where a game flips from 'fun' to 'too much work'.
I understand what you mean by this and it also explains why so many people have dropped out of flight simming. Sims like Falcon 4.0 and DCS simply require a significant time investment if you want to have an even minimal grasp of what you are doing. Quite understandably many of the simmers from the 90's got married, had kids, got jobs, etc so that significant time investment is no longer practical.
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4621688 - 02/28/2305:51 PMRe: Think I'm coming out of my mid-life stupor / some Fleet Defender source
[Re: PanzerMeyer]
It's like some complexity thereshold where a game flips from 'fun' to 'too much work'.
I understand what you mean by this and it also explains why so many people have dropped out of flight simming. Sims like Falcon 4.0 and DCS simply require a significant time investment if you want to have an even minimal grasp of what you are doing. Quite understandably many of the simmers from the 90's got married, had kids, got jobs, etc so that significant time investment is no longer practical.
Not only that but as a result of the ultra hard-core factions insistence on every switch and system being modeled it takes 2-3 years minimum for a new aircraft to reach the end user. Multiple DCS Flaming Cliffs level aircraft can be completed in the time it takes for one full fidelity F-16/F-18.
"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4621730 - 02/28/2310:50 PMRe: Think I'm coming out of my mid-life stupor / some Fleet Defender source
[Re: MarkG]
DCS is a great technical achievement, and looks stunning, especially in VR. Before DCS World, I bought LOMAC, Black Shark and the A-10C thinking that ‘this time’ I’ll put some effort into learning how to fly these things properly. It turns out that I have absolutely no interest in doing that and probably never will. Wrong brain chemistry I guess.
I get a huge amount of pleasure out of getting a 1990s sim running nicely on modern hardware though. So, while there might be an F-14 DCS Module, it’s Fleet Defender on DosBox for me.
#4621731 - 02/28/2310:59 PMRe: Think I'm coming out of my mid-life stupor / some Fleet Defender source
[Re: MarkG]
mikew, no problem. I'm not good at multi-tasking my thoughts, but I'm going to be back on this thread in a couple of days or so. And it's going to rule!
The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in Gives way and suddenly it’s day again The sun is in the east Even though the day is done Two suns in the sunset, hmph Could be the human race is run
#4621835 - 03/02/2304:13 AMRe: Think I'm coming out of my mid-life stupor / some Fleet Defender source
[Re: MarkG]
There are 4 games I plan to play for the rest of my days that have nothing to do with stealth aircraft, and they are...
Fleet Defender Subwar 2050 1942: PAW (floating mouse issue that needs to be resolved, IIRC)
...and the only one without MicroProse on the box...
Need For Speed SE...
The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in Gives way and suddenly it’s day again The sun is in the east Even though the day is done Two suns in the sunset, hmph Could be the human race is run
#4621845 - 03/02/2311:24 AMRe: Think I'm coming out of my mid-life stupor / some Fleet Defender source
[Re: MarkG]
Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 121,679PanzerMeyer
Pro-Consul of Florida
PanzerMeyer
Pro-Consul of Florida
King Crimson - SimHQ's Top Poster
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,679
Miami, FL USA
I played the heck out of 1942 Pacific Air War back in the day. Hard to believe that sim came out 30 years ago.
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4621857 - 03/02/2301:40 PMRe: Think I'm coming out of my mid-life stupor / some Fleet Defender source
[Re: PanzerMeyer]
I played the heck out of 1942 Pacific Air War back in the day. Hard to believe that sim came out 30 years ago.
+1
Still my all time favorite combat flight sim
"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4622519 - 03/11/2302:55 PMRe: Think I'm coming out of my mid-life stupor / some Fleet Defender source
[Re: MarkG]
This maybe should be in the 'Flight Sim Pit Builders' forum, but I was setting up for some gaming and noticed a couple of things: 1 The relative proportions of hardware have changed a bit since Fleet Defender came out 2. Fleet Defender itself could use a resolution bump.
#4622528 - 03/11/2306:08 PMRe: Think I'm coming out of my mid-life stupor / some Fleet Defender source
[Re: MarkG]
About bumping Fleet Defender's resolution, I don't believe it's possible for us mortals to do anything with it. As with most DOS games, there's no in-game resolution options (thus no variables in code). I believe the game is super-hard-coded (including some ASM for speed) to a single graphics mode, the most popular being Mode 13h (320x200 pixel linear 256-color paletted). Not to mention any hacks which would assume this single graphics mode.
Which makes me wonder what kind of Juju magic DID used to squeeze an incredible 640x400x256 out of DOS EF2000! Also, Need for Speed SE (640x480x256) as shown above, which I play under DOSBox (versus the Windows setup option)! How they accomplished this in pure DOS, I have no idea. Note that each has a lower 320x200 option.
I know of no DOS games which used the 640x480x16 mode, the idea that many more colors (256 vs. 16) was worth a lower resolution. ModeX only increased resolution a little, from 320x200 to 320x240.
And then there's this...
"In 1995, TIE Fighter also received a Collector's CD-ROM. The CD-ROM version offered optional enhanced SVGA graphics, increasing the game's resolution from 320x200 to 640x480." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_TIE_Fighter
Anyway, my other stuff is done so I'm back on thread. Looking at my options now for file transfers.
The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in Gives way and suddenly it’s day again The sun is in the east Even though the day is done Two suns in the sunset, hmph Could be the human race is run
#4623871 - 03/29/2305:54 PMRe: Think I'm coming out of my mid-life stupor / some Fleet Defender source
[Re: MarkG]
Thanks! It's just a generic 65" TV. The 60fps limitation doesn't bother me, and I'll never let it connect directly to the internet...but thank you, streaming companies for keeping the price down.
Fleet Defender is probably best played on a smaller screen for the reasons you describe. We need a remake with natively higher resolution...but it doesn't need to be much higher.
#4624851 - 04/16/2312:35 PMRe: Think I'm coming out of my mid-life stupor / some Fleet Defender source
[Re: MarkG]
..and now I've come across my boxed version. I miss the old days where buying something like ' Fleet Defender' would go something like this: 1. Read rumours about upcoming game in gaming magazine. 2. A month or so later there may be pictures and an interview with the dev. 3. Maybe then a preview/demo on the magazine's CD. 4. Head off into town on release day only to find out we're too off the beaten track, so buy another couple of games instead. 5. Finally have it in my hands, so straight to the pub to read the manual. As seen in the picture, I'd be in the pub a long time to read though the Fleet Defender documentation. 6. Get home and realize that a 80486 is not good enough, so need to upgrade PC. Yes!! Been waiting for an excuse to do that. 7. Buy new PC 8. Finally Install game and start it. 9. Meh....
Now it's down to this 1. Half-heartedly look through Gog and Steam's stores. 2. Buy a game and install it 3. Meh...
#4646898 - 05/20/2403:25 PMRe: Think I'm coming out of my mid-life stupor / some Fleet Defender source
[Re: MarkG]
I wouldn't call it a 'crises' because I didn't do any of that stupid stereotypical crap (hairpiece / sports car / cheat). In fact, my experience has been positive (health and marriage), more of a life-course correction I made almost 15 years ago which I plan to stay on. But now I want to permanently (not another false start) embrace some hobbies that once brought me joy (triggered by a new cheap guitar). And modern-era flight sims bring me joy.
So I thought I'd start (again) with MicroProse's Fleet Defender which IMO is one of the more polished sims. Already I've progressed further than ever with the intention of successfully completing all campaigns.
++++++++++
But going through my old dusty archives, I found some weird stuff, and I don't even know how I got it (or how many years/decades ago).
Like some interesting C files from Fleet Defender...
I regret bumping such an old thread but it seems that MarkG doesn't accept private messages!
This is relevant to my interests, Fleet Defender is one of my go-to retro sims for a relaxing weekend, still, to this very day. Along with Falcon 3.0 and it's Hornet and MiG-29 add-ons but I digress...
Mark I'm curious if you were ever able to decode or dump the campaign files to break them into individual missions that could be loaded and played with Fleet Defender Gold's mission maker?
#4646904 - 05/20/2404:14 PMRe: Think I'm coming out of my mid-life stupor / some Fleet Defender source
[Re: Hans]
Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 121,679PanzerMeyer
Pro-Consul of Florida
PanzerMeyer
Pro-Consul of Florida
King Crimson - SimHQ's Top Poster
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,679
Miami, FL USA
Originally Posted by Hans
[quote=MarkG]
I regret bumping such an old thread but it seems that MarkG doesn't accept private messages!
Mark is a very infrequent poster on SimHQ so I think it's a case where he got your private messages but he just hasn't logged into SimHQ yet to notice them.
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4646906 - 05/20/2405:36 PMRe: Think I'm coming out of my mid-life stupor / some Fleet Defender source
[Re: PanzerMeyer]
I regret bumping such an old thread but it seems that MarkG doesn't accept private messages!
Mark is a very infrequent poster on SimHQ so I think it's a case where he got your private messages but he just hasn't logged into SimHQ yet to notice them.
Ah, actually when I tried to send him one I got an error saying he wasn't accepting them.
#4646908 - 05/20/2406:06 PMRe: Think I'm coming out of my mid-life stupor / some Fleet Defender source
[Re: Hans]
Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 121,679PanzerMeyer
Pro-Consul of Florida
PanzerMeyer
Pro-Consul of Florida
King Crimson - SimHQ's Top Poster
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,679
Miami, FL USA
Originally Posted by Hans
Ah, actually when I tried to send him one I got an error saying he wasn't accepting them.
I wasn't even aware that feature existed. My mistake!
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4646967 - 05/21/2409:05 PMRe: Think I'm coming out of my mid-life stupor / some Fleet Defender source
[Re: MarkG]
I'm hoping to run into him on here, hoping he's datamined some good stuff. Yhea I'm probably one of like five people who still think of Fleet Defender as "The" Tomcat simulator but I just can't justify the cost of lDCS...
#4646971 - 05/21/2409:59 PMRe: Think I'm coming out of my mid-life stupor / some Fleet Defender source
[Re: Hans]
Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 121,679PanzerMeyer
Pro-Consul of Florida
PanzerMeyer
Pro-Consul of Florida
King Crimson - SimHQ's Top Poster
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,679
Miami, FL USA
Originally Posted by Hans
Yhea I'm probably one of like five people who still think of Fleet Defender as "The" Tomcat simulator but I just can't justify the cost of lDCS...
The problem is that if you want to fly the F-14 your options are very limited. There's DCS, Fleet Defender and maybe Jane's US Navy Fighters? I can't think of any other titles from within the past 25 years.
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4646972 - 05/21/2410:40 PMRe: Think I'm coming out of my mid-life stupor / some Fleet Defender source
[Re: PanzerMeyer]
Yhea I'm probably one of like five people who still think of Fleet Defender as "The" Tomcat simulator but I just can't justify the cost of lDCS...
The problem is that if you want to fly the F-14 your options are very limited. There's DCS, Fleet Defender and maybe Jane's US Navy Fighters? I can't think of any other titles from within the past 25 years.
War Thunder, sim mode isn't terrible, but it's 99% online against other people in air quake. Ace Combat and Project Wingman, but those are far from sims, fun, but definitely not realistic.
#4646980 - 05/22/2410:37 AMRe: Think I'm coming out of my mid-life stupor / some Fleet Defender source
[Re: PanzerMeyer]
Yhea I'm probably one of like five people who still think of Fleet Defender as "The" Tomcat simulator but I just can't justify the cost of lDCS...
The problem is that if you want to fly the F-14 your options are very limited. There's DCS, Fleet Defender and maybe Jane's US Navy Fighters? I can't think of any other titles from within the past 25 years.