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#4364578 - 06/18/17 08:04 AM Re: Attending a Wake [Re: JACKSPRAT]  
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Brit44 'Aldo' Offline
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Now that I think of it, why not have VBH give you his version of the code and his assembly breakdown of the exes? Sorry VBH, just pointing out the logical, legalities of Marks statement. Hex editing the exe is against the end user agreement that accompanied EAW..


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#4364579 - 06/18/17 08:16 AM Re: Attending a Wake [Re: JACKSPRAT]  
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Brit44 'Aldo' Offline
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wink and just to be a sharp stick in the eye.

Is Tommo Inc (which has such grand resources) so unskilled that they can not convert assembly language to C++? Yes you are correct. I am being a total ass with that statement.


TPA who TWI
#4364691 - 06/18/17 10:53 PM Re: Attending a Wake [Re: JACKSPRAT]  
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MarkEAW Offline
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Personally i would pursue trying to get some if not all the mapped out effects of the FXEXE. I mean that's the down side of not using C++ to code it, there is no real code available. Just what VBH knows and has notes about.

So your saying hex editing the exe is against some the EUA?

and for a tick barred under the skin...

What about making the exe not require a CD, or the so called standalone versions that have game data from the original game. Or what about all the data from previous modders of EAW.

You all are hypocrites. lol

Anyhow I still think the best thing to do is get Tommo the src and let them make the game dx9c and code the frontend upto 32 bit. Then the old D3D slow downs won't be a problem anymore and the drop down menus can finally be added to the frontend.
Of course only if the code is open sourced tho for v1.2 by Tommo.

#4364929 - 06/20/17 12:44 AM Re: Attending a Wake [Re: MarkEAW]  
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I really want to post some stupid pictures but I don't want to get in trouble again. I'll just watch from over in the corner...........


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#4365643 - 06/23/17 05:19 AM Re: Attending a Wake [Re: JACKSPRAT]  
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Brit44 'Aldo' Offline
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Stick around dBeav. This is a discussion not a war.

Mark,
The no CD hack should be removed from every version of the source code, in my opinion. This hack was created before the code group was given the code by Atari (if my memory is correct). I believe that VBH's hex editing is in violation of the EUA of EAW. That does not diminish my respect for his skills. I also believe that Gibbo's link to a playable EAW 1.26 is an IP theft. It is a requirement of the copyright owner to defend there IP. I have not seen any defense of the IP from the current owner.

If Thommo.inc wants to make the code open source, they can simply release the non compilable code that was given to the code group and also forwarded to them by a member of the code group when they requested it.. It is my recollection that the code group were the ones that made the source code compile in VS6 from the source obtained when Atari purchased the rights to EAW.

If I remember the Tommo email and postings correctly, it was 'Give us what you have and we will take it to the next level'. The responce was 'here is what was given to us'.

I do not see the code group members as hypocrites, I see them as hobbiests defending there efforts against the latest owner of a product's name and good will to make a fast buck from the modding community that kept some value to the IP of an elder game.

PS. You did not respond to my question for why you thought the EAW community is owed a full release of the modders knowledge. I repete my offer to supplying code that contains both DX6 and DX9 versions for DX rendering, providing they are willing to work within the code group agreement.
Al

Last edited by Brit44 'Aldo'; 06/23/17 05:39 AM.

TPA who TWI
#4365693 - 06/23/17 04:53 PM Re: Attending a Wake [Re: JACKSPRAT]  
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MarkEAW Offline
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The source code standalones still contain original game data regardless if the cd check is there or not, including un credited work. I was just stating facts.

Tommo Inc. doesn't have the src.
The "give us what you have..." statement from them, is BS aswell. You wouldn't need to give them anything but v1.2x src. There would need to be an agreement that the 1.2x code be used as open source by them as so the improvements can be added to the existing source code mods. Also The modders don't need to defend anything, other than their lack of crediting the original others of the add-ons they used in the first place.

You guys clearly have "sides" and you clearly are holding back modder knowledge and tools, hence why it helped the number of players and new modders to dwindle to nothing. This was all denied, but now your admitting to holding back , finally. wow. Your making progress. If you don't document anything, nothing new (including people) will come from it. But your group or "side" has seen to that. Why you think you need to hold back on something you never can profit from is startling. But controlling.

The original agreement is to the EAW community not some boring , communist, code group, that over sees nothing, but holding everything from the other people that wanted to play and mod something., that now left. I tried to explain it, I can't be going over every detail over and over, some things need to be learned for you selves, but i think your fully aware of the conditions you spew, thats all, its not really the situation of you not knowing.

#4365713 - 06/23/17 07:17 PM Re: Attending a Wake [Re: JACKSPRAT]  
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Mark you have just shot yourself in the foot brilliantly.
.
Over two years ago I gave the company contracted by Thommo.inc the source code we originally received.
They were unable to compile it.
I also gave them a working 1.2x setup, but they did not want their clients to have to use a the d3d windower program to circumvent 7217, so they were not prepared to release it..
I am not giving them any material made by me, or the code group. It is our intellectual property, and is not available for others to make a fast buck from.
Only two days ago I contacted them again, as my email reply from two years ago has not been answered. So far there has been no response.

From now on I will only be posting online game sessions and updates in this forum.


The best EAW online games are at GameRanger: GameRanger Site

My EAW Downloads pages at MediaFire are HERE including the new 160 Specials

Simple 160 installation with 9 theatres and 21 planesets CLICK HERE








#4365733 - 06/23/17 09:18 PM Re: Attending a Wake [Re: JACKSPRAT]  
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MarkEAW Offline
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How did I shoot my self in the foot Jel?
Sounds like your just waiting for something to happen? are you looking for a change in activity then?
For people that feel EAW should go on, you do everything you can not to let it.

If you gave them the v1.2x code you didn't help them at all to compile it, maybe they need a list of files that only need to be included. They clearly need help if that's the case, so why not? Why are you so hard pressed to not help, your little group is.
Did you intentionally give them a #%&*$# code and start laughing afterwards? Help them get passed the intentional setup, you got help to fix up the code.

no one said to give them your so called intellectual property. Who cares anyhow. They just want 1.2 working really, A simple compatible exe that they have to make cause it can't be provided to them.

#4365819 - 06/24/17 09:02 AM Re: Attending a Wake [Re: JACKSPRAT]  
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MrJelly Offline
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I did not want to respond, but there are factual errors in your post.

Quote
you got help to fix up the code
The only external help we received was late in the play by Zeus who fixed the code so that we could use Glide3 and BMP files in Glide.


Quote
A simple compatible exe that they have to make cause it can't be provided to them

You seem to be confused about what Tommo/Nightdive want to do, which is to release a 1.2 exe which runs via steam on modern PCs, without a glidewrapper or a windower.
I cannot compile any exe that fully meets their requirements, so I sent them one that may require the GlideWrapper, the d3d windower, or both.
It worked in Vista, Win7, Win8.1 and Win 10, but they were not prepared to release something that may require external files.

Last edited by MrJelly; 06/24/17 09:09 AM.

The best EAW online games are at GameRanger: GameRanger Site

My EAW Downloads pages at MediaFire are HERE including the new 160 Specials

Simple 160 installation with 9 theatres and 21 planesets CLICK HERE








#4365825 - 06/24/17 10:46 AM Re: Attending a Wake [Re: JACKSPRAT]  
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MarkEAW Offline
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You didn't want to reply? thats the whole purpose of the forum is to reply, reply???

eh, I'm referring to when the code was first being worked out to be compiled and fixed. You had MPS EAW Team memeber (s) helping then...
But you why won't you help them compile the code? Just to get them started?

I'm not confused, I said all they really want is a working v1.2 exe. I meant to say 'compatible' with the newer Windows OS.
The Steam overlay is separate from the game.

#4365948 - Yesterday at 11:12 AM Re: Attending a Wake [Re: JACKSPRAT]  
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MrJelly Offline
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This is who we are dealing with: http://www.nightdivestudios.com/games



The original contact I received contained this:

So you are a part of the group? That's good. I have some nice news for you.

I work for a video game company and we specialize in re-releasing old games on modern platforms. We are currently contracted by a company who owns the rights to European Air War. The company bought the rights from Atari a few months ago and we have been tasked with putting the game out on Steam.

Instead of just putting the game on Steam and that be the end of it, I was wondering if you and your group would like to come together and work on something special for the Steam release of the game.

I can't really say much more than that right now. The release date of the game is set for the end of this month.

If you are interested, please let me know and I can and get something worked out.


Note that this is for a Steam release.
As a result their company received a full working 1.2X installation with the 7217 fix and Ctrl-G framerate display included.
They also received the source code from which I compiled this exe.

To make sure I have just recompiled it It runs in Windows10, but needs the windower to avoid a garbled map screen in Windows 7. I no longer have Windows 8 or 8.1

Later in the proceedings I received this

And I don't know if we can ask customers to go through the process of having to assign an exe to a global dll hook. We need a fully modular system that allows the game to be installed anywhere and the user just clicks Play. We really can't ask them to do complicated stuff after the purchase of the game.


The final thing I received was this from the CEO on April 7th 2015:


Greetings Tony,

I believe you have been in contact with one of my employees, a number of months ago regarding the source code for European Air War. I wanted to reach out to you personally and see if you had any interest in helping us re-release the game with the numerous fixes/patches/improvements you and your community have made to it.

We currently have the rights to re-distribute the game, but as you know the retail version does not function on current operating systems. We'd really appreciate your help on this so please let me know what your thoughts are on this and we'll go from there.

Looking forward to hearing from you,

Stephen
.

_______________________________________________________________________________________

My reply:

Greetings.
Luckily I checked my junk mail folder before emptying it.
I think that it is important to outline some critical issues with the way EAW runs.
The released game crashes immediately on most systems because the exe checks if the player's graphics card/driver combination can handle 8 bit graphics, and nowadays it cannot. The dreaded 7217 error message is generated, and this became a real problem when players started installing better cards and drivers back in about 2001. The background to this is that the EAW selection screens are in a compressed form of 8 bit PCX files, which the exe decompresses.
A friend of one of the original programmers did a hack to make the exe believe that a 16 bit card could handle 8 bit, and this fixed the problem for several years. One annoying side effect is slow and stuttery mouse movement and reaction to mouseclicks, but this is far better than 7217.
The game runs well once selections are made and it is launched.
However, the problem is re-emerging because many card/driver combinations cannot handle 16 bit graphics these days. I am getting the 7217 with the Windows10 tech preview.

Another alternative is the d3dwindower program that runs games in a window. I just ran the 1.2exe with the no CD crack in Windows10 using the windower, without the 7217 error. However, the windower is ancient, and some features do not work in operating systems later than Vista. One key feature for me is that in Vista I can set EAW as the "current program" in the windower and If I fly online at GameRanger EAW runs in a window via the windower. In later operating systems this does not happen, and the game runs in full screen, but generates the 7217 error for me in Windows 10 because it is not running through the windower. So, playing online at GameRanger is not possible in Windows 10 for me. I play online at Gameranger in XP, Vista and Windows 7. Windows 8.1 works too, but there is a slow frame rate problem.

We have never been able to replace the compressed 8 bit PCX screens with other graphic forms such as 24 bit BMPs, or jpg files etc, and this is the crux of the problem.

Another issue is that the game uses DirectX 6, and nobody has the skill to make it run using the full features of DX9 or later.

So although we have improved the game incredibly in a number of areas these issues remain, and would need to be addressed before we even start.


Best wishes


My last sentence implies that I was prepared to help, but the email remains unanswered. As a result of this thread I re-contacted him again a few days ago, but no response at this juncture.
The ball is in their court and has been for over two years.


The best EAW online games are at GameRanger: GameRanger Site

My EAW Downloads pages at MediaFire are HERE including the new 160 Specials

Simple 160 installation with 9 theatres and 21 planesets CLICK HERE








#4365950 - Yesterday at 12:10 PM Re: Attending a Wake [Re: JACKSPRAT]  
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mikew Offline
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Fascinating! I love the 'release at the end of this month' optimism. smile

Getting these early Windows games into a consumer-friendly state in a Win10 environment is a mammoth task.
Having the source code may even be counter-productive as there's be a fair amount of effort getting it to even compile without the original Watcom (or maybe VS6...I don't know what EAW used) dev tools.

#4365975 - Yesterday at 02:55 PM Re: Attending a Wake [Re: JACKSPRAT]  
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Most members of the code group compile in VS6. These days I have to use Win XP in an Oracle Virtual Box on my W10 drive in order to run VS6. The compiled exes run fine, but need the windower program in Win 7 to overcome the garbled map problem. My current Windows 10 installation runs all versions well smile


The best EAW online games are at GameRanger: GameRanger Site

My EAW Downloads pages at MediaFire are HERE including the new 160 Specials

Simple 160 installation with 9 theatres and 21 planesets CLICK HERE








#4366023 - Yesterday at 10:24 PM Re: Attending a Wake [Re: JACKSPRAT]  
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MarkEAW Offline
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Thanks for explaining it out in detail.

If they do get back to you, make sure they modify the v1.2x code as open source, like on github, so you can apply those fixes/improvements if you so wish to. Just a thought.

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