I meant no-one in particular, just - in general

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Those would all be great features to have in a campaign no doubt. I think the experience 777 had when they put so much work into the Beta Career for RoF only to have it outdone by a 3rd party made them reluctant to repeat that. I know Jason expressed interest in having a 3rd party PW style campaign. Perhaps campaigns are best done by 3rd parties. The best campaigns and missions for CoD are 3rd party. Eagle Dynamics also said recently they were going to get agreements with 3rd parties for campaigns as well. Certainly BoS will go the same route.

Sounds more to me like lazy developers depending on users to save their game. The content , especially for single players, is far greater in the other titles you mention, than in the joke of a SP system that BOS has.
Too bad they did not learn from the success of ROF and the popularity of Pat Wilson's PWCG.

Microsoft tried a similar experiment with MS Flight, look how long that one lasted... FSX,it's predecessor which is no longer officially supported, however is still going strong.
I will take ROF and it's beta career, over BOS any day of the week - and that is saying something, as my big preference is WWII over WWI. I still play ROF, not BOS.

Oh I'm sure they DID learn from RoF. Jason did express interest in getting that sort of campaign made for BoS but PW isn't really into WWII. I'm sure someone will do that type of campaign eventually. RoF did not ship initially with the Beta Career or Pat Wilsons Campaign. Those were added years later. BoS has been out for 3 months. Give it time...
These developers aren't "lazy" it's just that in today's world developing the game is so much more expensive.
Do you think DCS: MiG-21 comes with a career campaign? All their work today is consumed by making the aircraft themselves.

I would give that talking point a break. BOS is not a brand new game out for 3 months, it was a based on an already existing successful game that has been out for over 5 years now.
Normally the next in line is an improvement on the previous, not a huge step backwards.

That one, just won't fly.

There's a lot about BoS that's different than RoF. You own both so that should be apparent. I understand the ME is different too which is why they're still working on it. if they could just cut n paste WWII planes into RoF what have they been working on for two years? This game launched with 10 planes. RoF initially had only 4. So that's part of the improvement right there.

I'm a little concerned that when the mission editor gets released a lot of missions or campaigns that will get made will suffer from the slowdown that occurs when a reasonable amount of action is happening.
This happens very rarely in the stock campaign as it not very often you see over 20 planes in the air, but in the 3rd party mini campaign that was released a couple of weeks ago, this happens a lot of the time and renders it totally unplayable, for me at least.

I came across this video on YT the other day which has someone playing that mini campaign and you can really tell that it is running slow, the guy comments on it and zooms in on the clock inside the plane.

If you watch the clock and time it yourself you can see that 5 seconds in game is roughly the same as 7-8 seconds real time, so it looks like BoS is running at 1.5 times slower than it should.

[video:youtube]http://youtu.be/TUrS4R_CK24?t=14m21s[/video]

If you start from around 14:20, you will see what I mean.

Mick.

The ME may be different, but at the same time they have given a select few access to it, and have stated that it will be the same, and no different than the ROF ME. But then again, it was supposed to already have been available to the customers in Dec as well...

You are right, BOS is no ROF at all. It still amazes me they departed so heavily from ROF, especially considering the apparent success of ROF. Time will tell, I fear this does not bode well for BOS at all. Just look at the activity, or should I say lack of, on the flight sim forums now for BOS. Even the official forum. ROF will continue to do just fine, especially after the nice update they released in Dec for it.

This is like saying that Parker Brothers shouldn't bother developing gameplay for Monopoly just because someone else might do a better job. Can you imagine how fun Monopoly would have been if they just shipped it without the instruction book? Developers should make games that are able to stand on their own two feet. Sure, support and encourage mods and 3rd party content. However, making games that require 3rd party content to even be enjoyable is doing your job poorly.

BoS doesn't require 3rd party content to make it playable. Can it be improved with such? Yes. But it's not required.

He said enjoyable...not playable.

Ok. More enjoyable.
How does that make BoS different from every other flight sim ever made?
Like they all weren't made much more appealing through the addiction of user generated and 3rd party content.

I'm waiting to see what the ME can do as well, worried about the limitations

I haven't played every flight sim ever made, but BoS is the least enjoyable single player of all of the ones I have played. I think we can agree that most good flight sims have a single player that at least attempts to create a realistic experience of participation in the war their title is covering. They may fall short. They may have imperfect elements, but they try. BoS doesnt try to do that. Hence, the vitriol.

I'm starting to understand some of the guys complaints about the lack of aircraft in the scenarios.....I mean maybe 6 to 8 IL-2's with a cover of two fighters. The combat is limited and the tactics kind of stale. Very often I find myself alone...making passes on attack aircraft and bombers....I know it's been shown to have 21 or so aircraft up and about at times....but I haven't experienced that except in an escort mission..if I remember correctly.

Mission types, exclude something as basic as just a fighter sweep, and never have I encountered any substantial numbers of enemy fighters. Id be interested to hear if any of you guys actually have....in the Campaign section.

We were told we'd have this historical campaign, lets forget that we didn't get the choice of choosing a unit like we were told we were getting or get historical medals like we were told we were getting but this campaign is far from historical because of what you mentioned above and what many others here have experienced. Its just the quick mission builder hid behind a paper thin façade of a few cut scene's. The number of aircraft you get to see in the air at any one time is really low and doesn't give you the feeling of being in a huge battle. The ground forces are also slim on the ground even when flying within the corridor of activity set in the flight path, if you stray outside these corridors the amount of air and ground vehicles are near non existent. The enemy aircraft suddenly spawn as you hit the trigger point and the follow the same procedure when you attack, it just gets predictable and stale.

To me its not a campaign at all, I may as well just use the QMB. We're told by ardent BoS fans that everything will be fine once the full mission builder is released and third parties get their hands on it. I did not pay $100 to wait on the off chance that someone somewhere might build a satisfactory campaign and then possibly pay for that. The developer created campaign should be a benchmark for other third party campaign's to be measured against. What they have released is a slap-dash half hearted attempt at creating a campaign and as a customer I should not be waiting on a third party to fix it.

They have the mission editor and its working, its in the hands of a select few of their most ardent fans so why can't we all have a look at it? I makes me wonder that the low numbers of aircraft and ground forces we see in the campaign are a limitation of the engine as has been suggested by those with a good knowledge of Rise of Flight's server software and mission editor. Given the strict control over the dedicated server which resulted in one supporter having his access to the deserver removed for posting mild criticism of the unlocks then is the full mission builder being withheld to avoid the scrutiny of those who would speak out about its limitations until more copies can be sold and its too late? The way this developer has behaved silencing criticism, punishing those who speak out and paying shills to promote the game I don't feel that idea is too far fetched.

that's my theory....this lack of release is buying time...not for a wonderful overhaul of the ME from the RoF version, but to prevent full discovery of the limits of the BoS DNE implementation.

The Chir Front Missions released by Veteran66 at the official site are little more than more of the same from the existing SP Campaign

Edit -- I had not read the earlier post with YouTube video above showing a Chir Front mission with unusually high entity count (by my experience playing a few of them) --- but you can see the game choking on it --- too bad he does not post system specs

You keep on coming up with conspiracy theories of the DN game engine "choking" however it is strange that RoF regularly has 65-70 players with happy results and no mass complaining on their forums....It has been said mmany times by people who have built missions that the BoS engine is improved over the RoF DN engine.

Cheers Dakpilot

Show me don't tell me

Understand what that means?

You start posting mission recordings (tracks) with large numbers of AI that allow the entire userbase to download and play and see how these tracks perform on their systems

And then and only then...will you be taking concrete verifiable steps towards demonstrating what the DNE BoS can and cannot do

Until that happens

It is more subjective nonsense