#3917426 - 02/27/14 07:27 AM
Re: Mt. Gox appears done for now- Bitcoin over?
[Re: Kontakt5]
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Kontakt5
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It's a currency according to whom? Not anywhere I ever go to spend money.
It's ridiculous to make it the government's fault if private parties don't accept it.
Now I don't defend the government when it should be criticized, the government ought to be criticized, but bringing in the government here isn't really the issue. This happening had nothing to do with the government. Bitcoin exchanges are currently not regulated, so it has nothing to do with the government. This is an unregulated market here doing whatever to itself.
No one gets out of here alive.
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#3917561 - 02/27/14 03:15 PM
Re: Mt. Gox appears done for now- Bitcoin over?
[Re: Kontakt5]
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Jedi Master
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The collapse of a bank does not imply the collapse of a currency or the value of what people store there. It only means the bank was run into the ground.
This was a really poorly run virtual bank with no ATMs or drive thru tellers that didn't use legal tender.
The Jedi Master
The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
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#3917643 - 02/27/14 05:21 PM
Re: Mt. Gox appears done for now- Bitcoin over?
[Re: VF9_Longbow]
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Kontakt5
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just because you don't use it means it's not a currency?
there is a difference between legal tender and currency. What I am getting at is that it helps a currency if it is commonly used. From a practical point of view, if few people accept it as currency, it doesn't function like it whether you call it currency. Even Bitcoin users aren't necessarily using it as currency, rather, speculators seem to be the biggest share of people interested in it. Widespread use helps make the case more that it functions like a practical currency. But if just very few people accept it as currency, it's a bit overblown. It's even self limited by its own circulation cap of just 21 million Bitcoin, meaning it won't go into widespread use. Finally, the volatility problem will need to be solved before it becomes a stable, reliable currency.
No one gets out of here alive.
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#3918334 - 02/28/14 07:50 PM
Re: Mt. Gox appears done for now- Bitcoin over?
[Re: Jedi Master]
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Cold_Gambler
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The collapse of a bank does not imply the collapse of a currency or the value of what people store there. It only means the bank was run into the ground.
This was a really poorly run virtual bank with no ATMs or drive thru tellers that didn't use legal tender.
The Jedi Master The problem is not so much that Mt.Gox was badly run, the problem is more that 1- it was the biggest and 2- it was subject to a number of successful attacks (and it is not the only bitcoin exchange targeted) on its holdings. What confidence is there that its successor will be more secure? There are plenty of hackers out there, the risk is low and the rewards are great...
looks very modernishy-phoney-windows eighty-tabletty like
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#3918340 - 02/28/14 07:56 PM
Re: Mt. Gox appears done for now- Bitcoin over?
[Re: Kontakt5]
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The funny part about that picture is that guy is like the ONLY protester there. The rest are press!
The Jedi Master
The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
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#3918346 - 02/28/14 07:59 PM
Re: Mt. Gox appears done for now- Bitcoin over?
[Re: Kontakt5]
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I see it as something endemic to the whole scheme:
These exchanges are not run by businessmen who understand market risks and business cycles. These are more technically minded go getters trying to cash in on something- something right now that exists because of speculators more than a mainstream desire for this so-called currency.
As in anything else, speculators are people who buy the Bitcoin and then hold them, waiting for an opportunity to resell them again at profit. That appears to account for the main volume of trading rather than you or I or anyone else walking into McDonald's with them or paying the neighbor's kid to mow the lawn.
Since the 'currency' is volatile and unproven, you may as well have sketchy exchanges to go with it.
No one gets out of here alive.
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#3918371 - 02/28/14 08:30 PM
Re: Mt. Gox appears done for now- Bitcoin over?
[Re: Kontakt5]
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Tulip Mania "People were purchasing bulbs at higher and higher prices, intending to re-sell them for a profit. However, such a scheme could not last unless someone was ultimately willing to pay such high prices and take possession of the bulbs. In February 1637, tulip traders could no longer find new buyers willing to pay increasingly inflated prices for their bulbs. As this realization set in, the demand for tulips collapsed, and prices plummetedthe speculative bubble burst. Some were left holding contracts to purchase tulips at prices now ten times greater than those on the open market, while others found themselves in possession of bulbs now worth a fraction of the price they had paid. Mackay claims the Dutch devolved into distressed accusations and recriminations against others in the trade." ~400 years later and people are just as dumb...
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#3918376 - 02/28/14 08:42 PM
Re: Mt. Gox appears done for now- Bitcoin over?
[Re: kludger]
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However, such a scheme could not last unless someone was ultimately willing to pay such high prices and take possession of the bulbs. This is essentially the same exact thing that happened with dot com stocks in the late 90's and the housing market a few years ago.
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
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#3918398 - 02/28/14 09:15 PM
Re: Mt. Gox appears done for now- Bitcoin over?
[Re: PanzerMeyer]
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This is essentially the same exact thing that happened with dot com stocks in the late 90's and the housing market a few years ago.
+1 Look at the price last 2 years, the bubble really took off since Nov: http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/bitstampUSD#rg730ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zv The the price took off in Nov not due to any change in intrinsic value, but due to the hype and speculative trading and the resulting demand. Even now the price still has a long way to fall to be where it was just 6 months ago, but all the speculators caught up in the hype who bought in the last few months can't sell without taking a serious haircut so they are holding on hoping for the run on Bitcoin to stop... Not much different than the price/value of tulips in 1637 ![biggrin biggrin](/forum/images/graemlins/default/biggrin.gif)
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#3918418 - 02/28/14 10:00 PM
Re: Mt. Gox appears done for now- Bitcoin over?
[Re: Kontakt5]
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Kontakt5
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There is probably no such thing as an unlimited ceiling. In a seller's market, at some point, there will be less and less buyers who can afford to buy in, sellers will have a harder time to find buyers who can afford the fair market asking price. That's generally the tipping point where the scheme comes crashing down. Buyers can at that point get back in the game once the commodity is cheap once more, then the cycle repeats itself- assuming the economy wasn't wrecked first.
No one gets out of here alive.
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#3918490 - 02/28/14 11:52 PM
Re: Mt. Gox appears done for now- Bitcoin over?
[Re: Kontakt5]
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People are not using Bitcoin to purchase goods and services on a very wide scale- even your government doesn't consider them a currency, and it's likely not many businesses in Japan do, either.
It's behaving more as an investment than a currency, so people are buying them, betting on reselling them. That's not a currency.
Most trading is probably occurring because of speculators, people are buying them with the idea of reselling them, like say what people do with other property or assets. The few people actually using them as a currency are outnumbered by the speculators.
It's a currency the way there are certain forms of currency in a prison, it exists as a currency for relatively few people, to the outside world, not so much.
No one gets out of here alive.
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#3918849 - 03/01/14 10:22 PM
Re: Mt. Gox appears done for now- Bitcoin over?
[Re: Kontakt5]
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Well, it doesn't draw good comparisons to other stable, First World currency that drops half of its value in two months.
The way someone acquires it isn't based on fiat power, that's true- but it's not based on anything at all.
Fred pays Ted $500 for 1 Bitcoin.
What is the currency is this transaction? It's the $500, it's not the Bitcoin. The Bitcoin sold for $500 for no intrinsic reason.
By the way, as for the government being on our backs for some reason, the alternative is that several Bitcoin exchanges have failed, vanishing the buyers' money with them. Mt. Gox is not the only one that failed, it's just that these other ones weren't really publicized.
No one gets out of here alive.
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#3920517 - 03/05/14 08:44 AM
Re: Mt. Gox appears done for now- Bitcoin over?
[Re: Kontakt5]
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Cold_Gambler
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And another bitcoin "bank" gets robbed and closes: article
looks very modernishy-phoney-windows eighty-tabletty like
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