I cant wait. ROF has come to a stand still, infact some things are going wrong there.

How much for this sim?? I need to convince the wife that this is cheaper than me drinking beer every evening because ROF if sort of broke.

Lederhosen, I think that a flight sim is incredibly good value - if you compare
the huge amount of time that has to be invested, it is real cheap.
The other sim sells weapon mods for 5 $ per mod/plane - now, if a sim costs for
example 50,- $, then that's only ten times a weapon mod!
So, the basic sim is cheap IMHO - even if it would cost 60,- or 70,- $.
I have spent so many hours flying OFF, that I guess I didn't pay more than 2 Cent
per hour - if at all.

And not to mention the dozens of planes that you can fly and play with a single package (OFF or WOFF).
In order to have in RoF a similar (but not the same) amount of flyable planes what you have in OFF you would need to pay around $200 (yes, I did the math).

The only problem is when do you find the time to fly the dozens of plane. It takes some time to be good with one plane alone. So in RoF you only buy what you really intend to fly, you don't have to spend so much considering the base game with 4 planes is free... and noone has to buy weapon mods, I fly since two years with no weapon mod and only some field mods for a few planes.
I will buy WOFF of course (I'm still flying OFF every week) but making careers I will surely only fly 6 or 7 planes.

@Lederhosen : I don't know what you find is going wrong with RoF, I am at the moment flying two fantastic online campaigns (one with Olham) with respectively 50 players (1916 69 Giap) and 160 players (FEOW III in 2 x 80 players fronts on Fridays and Saturdays) Both will last 6 months.

"@Lederhosen : I don't know what you find is going wrong with RoF, I am at the moment flying two fantastic online campaigns (one with Olham) with respectively 50 players (1916 69 Giap) and 160 players (FEOW III in 2 x 80 players fronts on Fridays and Saturdays) Both will last 6 months."


FEOW is for Squads, and I was never able to get access to the forum, and Giap...no comment.
Aside from that, I meant the AI when flying careers offline.
And don't worry, I'll get this Sim for sure.

I don't have the desire of making this another OFF versus RoF debate but this is my opinion and how I usually play sims which could or couldn't be how others might play here:
Yes, I do have "time" to play dozens of planes but not on the career/campaign of course (this I trend to agree with you) but I do try and play with the other "dozens" of aircraft in single/quick combat/missions from time to time in OFF (even as a break from my campaign/career). Heck, in OFF phase 1 and 2 I even tried the Zeppelin a few times and you can bet if there's a Zeppelin in WOFF I'll definitely try it (even if I won't play a career/campaign with it, if WOFF has any Zeppelin campaign with it, that is).
Besides and while I almost exclusively play for the British in terms of WWI sim campaigns (in Red Baron and now in OFF), sometimes I play for the RNAS other times I play for the RFC and I ALWAYS start my campaign the earliest date possible this means that only for my career/campaign "needs" I need more than 6 or 7 planes alone!

Besides and speaking of quick combat/missions, I remember that I never played with the Roland CII light bomber/recon aircraft. Will try it right now! I hope with this example, do you understand what I meant with my last post? This is something that I just can't do with RoF, unless I buy that aircraft! So if I was a RoF player than I would never try the Roland (for example) but with OFF I can play with it even if I will never play with it more than couple of times...

Just to end my post/argumentation, I'm an "old school simmer" and being an OFF fan and Red Baron fan before that, for me a WWI flight sim means LOTS of aircraft in the initial package which I intend to pay for it only once at an affordable price (with the exception of addons that comes with several new aircraft and improvements such as the "Hat in the Ring" OFF addon). While each aircraft have it's tricks and it may take "some time to be good with one plane" that "learning" time isn't that long as one might think, after all we aren't taking about F-16s or something like that! Besides, real pilots in WWI hardly had any time to "practice" on their planes.
And BTW, the free version of RoF doesn't come with 4 planes as you say but it only comes with 2 (the SPAD 13 and the Albatros D.Va).

@ Ricnunes :
No need to argue, I have both OFF and RoF and I enjoy flying both. Being 62, I can also call myself "old school" and I am also a Red Baron vet...lol
I have no interest in quick combat missions and flying a plane a couple of times is certainly not enough to use it properly ! Without talking about F16s (I am also a Falcon 4.0 ex-squadron leader) landing a Nieuport 17 with a good cross wind will take some practice, if not it means the flight model and physics are wrong.

For me nothing replaces flying multiplayer online coop missions or campaigns. I just flew a 90 mns mission in a Roland C2 with a bunch of 35 nice guys and we had a blast. I don't find the same thrill flying against very predictive AI planes, both in RoF and OFF.
My point was just to say that you don't need to spend 200 Euros to enjoy the sim.

Moved discussion of sims pros and cons from the WOFF: NEW DEV SCREENSHOTS thread that are not pertinent to new images and features of WOFF specifically.

Sorry guys but the usual warning applies - keep it civil and reasonable or it will be closed quickly.

Its a good job OBD Software are not like S.O.E you guys would have been banned for mentioning a competitors game in greater detail than what really was required.

Playing what you own is never really going to cost you any extra money. So is OFF worth it yes, but flying Vs Ai cannot and never should be compared to flying or playing Vs Human opponent its a completely different application of the same context.

Sorry for hijacking the original thread.
I didn't see anything "not reasonable" until now and as far as I'm concerned it's over and out.

@ Freiherr_Wulff :

"Its a good job OBD Software are not like S.O.E you guys would have been banned for mentioning a competitors game in greater detail than what really was required."
Now that is a non reasonable statement. There is no competition, they all are part of the same family, you find a lot of the same people and each has its own pros and cons. This is why I use both.

I wouldn't mind being banned from a forum with such a crazy attitude... in fact I think I would probably ban myself from the forum and from the software.

Of course there is no comparison between flying vs AI and flying vs Human. This is why I would never buy anymore any simulation software that does not offer a complete online multiplayer option.
It was OK for OFF because it's old stuff now.

Yes S.O.E did have a crazy attitude but I always bare that attitude in mind when talking on game forums I would only talking about other games either in private or only mentioned them without actually mentioning the names (The Other game etc)

I think when talking about the other game and OFF we should look at the way the two are developed and I can only say the other game is developed to test your skills against other human players, where OFF is developed to test your skills against yourself so to speak yes its against Ai but you ultimately are questioning you own ability and at the same time trying to push the envelope of what you can get away with Vs the Ai. or that's how I feel when I am playing maybe that's why I die a lot lol

P.s
check your pm's if its lets you SimHQ keeps signing me out

I can agree with most of you guys.
I like OFF because of its brilliant campaign, but the AI can be a bit dud at times.
ROF's Campaign is still being worked on etc, but its not all that bad.
However, flying mmp knowing that real pilots are hunting for you gets the adrennalin going. Taking off, forming up and knowing that you will have to cross the mud is quite nerving and then you see a speck up higher and its time to think, quickly.

Corsaire,

Don't get me wrong but are you aware that you're contradicting yourself when you say "For me nothing replaces flying multiplayer online coop missions or campaigns" and "I don't find the same thrill flying against very predictive AI planes"??
I'm saying this because in order to have a good/excellent experience playing coop games you MUST HAVE a good AI and you MUST LIKE flying and fighting against AI - Never saw a Coop game that didn't involve humans versus AIs (Human versus Human is "Team versus Team" and not "Coop").

Anyway and for my part, I hate Human versus Human multiplayer games and one of the reasons is becasuse NO matter what these game modes can never model for example an ambush/attack on an unsuspecting enemy flight - When you play Human versus Human multiplayer games you always know that you'll find enemies in the very next few minutes as opposed to the real life where pilots flew several missions without finding an enemy (which BTW, is well modelled in OFF) which by it's turn makes pilots to become somehow careless over time - This is something that can only be modeled thru AI programing, unless you and/or other humans are willing to play the same game/session for several days/months/years in a dynamic/persistent world which if I'm not mistaken RoF for example doesn't have, but I could be wrong thou...

For my part I also like Coop games (Humans in the same Team versus AIs) but unfortunally with a rather busy life and a 4 year old daughter which call very often for my attention and the complete lack of a "PAUSE" button in multiplayer games, means that I only play exclusively my games in single player/offline. With this, trying different in order to find out if I like them or not, make for me and IMO an interesting way to invest some of my spare time in OFF or any other combat flight sim that I play, specially when for some reason I'm a bit fed up with my career/campaign.

For the rest, it's just a matter of personal taste and I won't comment or reply any longer...
Just to end, yes this a very civilized discussion and actually I'm only replying this because it was moved to a more "proper" thread and for my part it will definitely continue to be civilized discussion.

thats not always so. I've flown a few foto recce missions deep over Hun lines (MMP) and was very glad that I was smart enough to avoid being found (well I like to think so). Nothing gives me more pleasure as a mission completed and I'm still alive to write about it (on or offline). Infact its just not knowing whats up ahead thats a big kick. Most computers set up a mission with enemy crossing your route, online I have know idea if this will be so. I love the thrill of turning to go over and sneak by, and I hate the fact that to get home I have to do just the same once more....and a lot of times the Hun is waiting.

We could do pro's and cons and in the end its what you like personaly. However I have never feared an AI pilot, but online I know the majority are infact Aces (with hundreds of hours logged) and I cant make one mistake or its "Exitus".

What I find wrong about online flying, is the expertise of almost each and every flyer.
It cannot be anywhere near the real WW1 flying - cause that would make the real flyers
of that time look like clumsy twits.

Most online pilots have died dozens or even hundreds of times, then they resurrect again
and carry on with all the knowledge gained before.
They know when the aircraft will break apart, and they train on and on to fly it next to
that point without braking it.
Also they do not have to fear terrible wounds; or to burn on the way down.
So when I fly online servers, I feel like being on a tournament of invincible top aces -
not among average WW1 pilots, with a rare ace here or there.

Don't get me wrong - I know it cannot be any different. And I know I am also flying with
the knowledge of hundred pilots.
I only describe this, because online flying is as unreal to me as flying against AI -
only in a different way.

You are wrong...
We are flying campaigns without any AI planes, some guys yesterday made a one and a half hour patrol without seeing any enemy or firing a single bullet, and Olham can testify we've been flying 4 hours last Friday (several missions) and we play our campaigns for over 6 months in a persistent world, by the fact that the results of one evening (bombing, destroying factories or airfields, bridges, convoys on the roads) directly influence the conditions of next evening cession through number of planes produced, quantities of fuel or ammo available at airfields.

This said I can understand it is not your cup of tea, but I can tell you that without this (and the whole social links around being permanent member of a team) I would have stopped flying sims long ago. My sons being 32 and 27, I don't have the same problem as you have..

Agree, but even if this is a flight sim, it is still a computer game and therefore will never model reality. Except if when you die you desinstall the sim from your PC for ever...

When I play solo against AI and come back from a mission with 5 or 6 kills, I don't find it more "real"...

As I said - it's both unreal. And I share both worlds with many others here.
Always hoping one day it might be more realistic.
If WOFF has "intelligent AI", which will even retreat when outnumbered or lower -
who knows; maybe that will be a new way of flying single player campaign.

But we'll continue meeting in the virtual skies - I won't give up the online flying.

Pat Wilson's Campaign Generator for RoF has made great steps in the behaviour of AI flights. Pat is a veteran modder for Red Baron and is improving his software at the speed of light (we are testing version 15.0)
I look forward to continue flying with you in the virtual skies, always a pleasure !

Is there a friends list in that other game ? A place where you can store the names of your friends and see when they come online ? I think that might convince me to give it a try if only to fly against the people who visit OFF forums.