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#320739 - 12/17/05 01:03 AM Re: Simpit ideas *****  
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If you got room, you can still get a CRT \:\) I got my 24" at a bargain price... It has one significant flaw, beside the space needed: it weighs forty kilograms \:\)

#320740 - 12/17/05 03:33 AM Re: Simpit ideas  

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Yes, 21 CRT's are 89.00 here, with 65.00 shipping. And a big footprint.

#320741 - 12/17/05 02:22 PM Re: Simpit ideas  
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Thanks again for the info. I'm halfway thinking of trying your same fresnel lens with my 21" crt. I'm wondering if brightness is an issue. I noticed their setups include lcd monitors. My crt gets a little washed out when you crank up the brightness during the day. I'll probably bug you again when you get it working.


"There is nothing wrong with laziness. The old saying 'The early bird gets the worm', just goes to show you the worm should have stayed in bed. So, when I volunteered for WW II, I signed up to be a fighter pilot because it was a sittin' down job." -- Robert Heinlein
#320742 - 12/19/05 03:29 AM Re: Simpit ideas  

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Craig, notice the first pic... they are getting popular. Interesting light control too. Nice and cheap

http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=137;t=000076

#320743 - 12/19/05 10:16 PM Re: Simpit ideas  
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If ground targets are much easier to pick out in IL2 that's a good endorsement. I keep thinking I would lose some brightness. I think you have the right idea with the inexpensive and bright LCD.


"There is nothing wrong with laziness. The old saying 'The early bird gets the worm', just goes to show you the worm should have stayed in bed. So, when I volunteered for WW II, I signed up to be a fighter pilot because it was a sittin' down job." -- Robert Heinlein
#320744 - 12/20/05 02:09 PM Re: Simpit ideas  
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Kimchoc, do you see the rings of the fresnel if you change position, I mean do you have to sit "just right" so as not to notice the rings or is there some leeway?

#320745 - 12/21/05 06:12 PM Re: Simpit ideas  

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Gotcha, I havnt really set it up for viewing yet. Mostly just measuring and checking viewpoint distances..
I'm working with only the one monitor right now. Next, I'll take the same monitor and start working on the upper section that will have the Fresnel.
After its all built, i'll order another monitor. They should come down a few dollars anyway.
Thats the next phase.
If I'm not happy with the Fresnel, I'm only out 60.00. I can simply put a 19" monitor in the top similar to what I've done on the bottom.
I went ahead and purchased the fresnel without ever seeing it in an actual game setting. I've seen a bunch of the guys use them in the forums and havnt heard really anything negative as long as you remember that you are compromising. You're trading large size and cheap price for resolution. I think it worth the try anyway.
guages not real, just print-outs from computer for future thinking..


#320746 - 12/22/05 08:13 PM Re: Simpit ideas  

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Heres the whole unit with the frenel lens mounted. Its ready for a test flight.


#320747 - 12/22/05 10:05 PM Re: Simpit ideas  
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looks cool. Keep us posted! I've almost finished a new texture pack for Taiwan to go with that...

#320748 - 12/23/05 01:38 PM Re: Simpit ideas  
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Looks great Kimchoc. Let us know how the test flight goes.

#320749 - 12/28/05 08:03 PM Re: Simpit ideas  

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Test flight was perfect. You cant believe how nice it is to sit in a real seat, not a office chair. I'm still working on viewpoint distances and control distances but heres a quick shot of the fresnel lens in action. First off, there is no way i can re-produce a picture of this setup due to the optics. What you see here is not even close to what it really looks like. There are no circles, flares and the picture IS crisp and clear. No wash out on the sides. My plans call for a 19" LCD behind the fresnel but I just threw the 17" in there to do the test flight. Anyway, heres a pic. I took about 6 pics and all the rest were really bad. Just doesnt do it justice.


#320750 - 12/28/05 08:06 PM Re: Simpit ideas  

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While I am waiting for the 19" LCD to come in from Tiger direct, I was looking at the simpit and got to thinking. I might need one of these...




So I whipped out this one to go under the seat....




eheheheh, a little paint and some cabinet handles....

#320751 - 12/29/05 03:06 PM Re: Simpit ideas  
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Cool, "Flight Recorder" That is creative!

#320752 - 12/29/05 06:08 PM Re: Simpit ideas  
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its your bass speaker or not? very nice

#320753 - 12/30/05 02:39 AM Re: Simpit ideas  

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Yes, it is the subwoofer box.. eheeh

#320754 - 12/31/05 01:20 PM Re: Simpit ideas  
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Nice work on the Black/Boom box Kimchoc.

#320755 - 01/04/06 02:08 AM Re: Simpit ideas  
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Where can these frenel lenses be purchased for computer monitors?I want one.


AMD Phenom II X4 955 3.2GHZ,MSI K9A2 CF V2 MB,6GB Corsair DDR2 Ram,EVGA Geforce GTX560 1GB,500GB Seagate drive,200GB WD drive.
#320756 - 01/05/06 09:51 PM Re: Simpit ideas  

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I'm starting to have a better opinion of the fresnel lens the more I work with it. Here you see I have installed the 19" monitor and have it just about as good as it is going to get. The fresnel I have is made for a TV,(saw the info on the box) even though it is sold as a simpit fresnel. Thus the viewpoint from your eye to the screen is quite alot more distant than simpit users would really like. The viewpoint distance is the point at which the fresnel lens has magnified the image of the LCD to cover the entire screen of the fresnel. On mine, I estimate this to be about 60" or more and as you can see, mine has not covered the entire lens from my seated viewpoint. 60" would be about the distance one would watch a TV from. But IMO, too far for a Simpit builder.
What I have accomplished is a slight magnification of the LCD AND an appearance that I am looking past the LCD. Which seems a bit realistic to me. If you were to look outside the cockpit , then down to your panel, your eyes would re-focus. This is a nice benefit from the fresnel.
In all, I am happy with my $56.00 investment and I still have a bit of tweaking to do. I got mine from here.
I would do some checking on focal and viewpoint distance before I purchase another, which I may do, now knowing about the viewpoint distance. Anyway, it is shaping up. Just about time to dis-assemble and paint and locate it to its proper home.



Still cant get you guys a good pic yet. The fresnel is quite alot clearer than my poor pic shows.

#320757 - 01/09/06 02:59 AM Re: Simpit ideas  
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My wife would kick my but.

Semper Fi


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#320758 - 01/09/06 05:01 AM Re: Simpit ideas  
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I have been playing with fresnels, for a while now. There is alot of bad info out there. Some people blindly believe that the highest groove density is all matters, or use the biggest size lens. These can sometimes negate the very reasons for using them, in the first place. You could end up with a focal length a couple inches in front of the screen. (Although, it looks like Kimchoc1's problem is just the opposite.)

One of the reasons for using a fresnel is to create a larger display. A well designed lens should make it seem that your monitor size has doubled. (Not that the lens is double but your perception of the magnified image is.)

The second is the sense of distance it provides. The lens make the display seem larger but farther away. This gives the brain the "depth of field" cues it needs, to fool it into thinking it is looking outside and past the monitor. This also forces the eye to re-focus, when looking at stuff inside the cockpit. It's suprising the level of realism that this provides.

As a side note, that is why I have pressed for advances to the multiple display handling and other cockpit builder's type improvements, in EECH. If you notice, in Kimchoc1's pic, he is using MSFS. So, he can put his instruments on the 2nd display. This allows him to take advantage of the "depth of field" cues, when switching from the outside and inside views. Aside from a more realistic controls layout and some switches, you can't complete a decent EECH cockpit without moving the MFDs to the 2nd monitor. As it is now, you would have to pan down (or switch the view) of the primary display to see them. Since they are still behind the fresnel, they are also magnified and the cues are lost. (It's a damn shame someone smarter than me can't figure this one out!!!)

One big problem with fresnels is stray light. That includes light on the front and the back of the lens. The fix for the front is easy... Add a small 3"-4" hood around the sides and top edge of the lens housing. For the back, there is more too it. Excessive light in the back creates the kinda washed out effect that some people complain about. This can come from the monitor's light bouncing off of the side of the housing and off of the back of the lens itself. The best fix for this is to buy an AR (anti-reflective) lens and to make the inside of the housing as dark and sealed as possible. (Matte black paint will work but thin sheets of black neoprene rubber are the best!)

After exhaustive research, here is where I get my lens from.

http://www.icetec-uk.com

As well as selling decent priced AR lens, their site does an excellent job explaining fresnels. They sell pre-made housings, too. Although, the lens come with plans to make them yourself, for alot cheaper. But hey, if you're lazy....rock on.
Design FYI - The lens are about 11" square. They will work on a monitor up to 21". They mount about 8" in front of the screen and your face needs to be about 13" in front of the lens.
They're also including plans now, for some wacky head-mounted fresnel design. It's not for me because it eliminates the whole depth of field thing but apparently it gets rid of the edge distortion and allows for variable magnification. (To me, it sounds like a headache waiting to happen but it might be for somebody.)

Another site to check out is:

http://www.bugeyetech.com

They are WAAAAYYY overpriced but just checking out the design of their housings may be helpful for the enterprising builder.

Hope this helps!

Tim


Grizzly's Comanche Simulator
"Fear is the mind killer. - Frank Herbert"
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