Is "STEAM" going to be linked to WOFF?? I hope not!!!

Having just been through a great harrrrrangggg with Steam ( trying to play CIV5 ) has not been fun.

With all of your work on WOFF I would hate to see the "cheaters" rob you of the $$$ that are owed to you. So please place some kind of protection in place other than STEAM or one of the other "cyber- big brothers" out there.

I often find myself where an internet connection is nowhere to be found and the "DISK" is my only acess to the game ( that I paid for ).

Thanks for all of the good fun so far flying the old "kites".

CW3SF

I have to say I have many games on steam, and haven't had any major problems, so it's not all doom and gloom.
I'm sure the dev team will do what is right for them to maximise their profits

Who mentioned ANYTHING about Steam, other than you guys, one pro and one con

It would be great if it were on steam, then we could easily download the game again if we had hard drive failure or something.

I'll never understand people's ridiculous distaste for Steam.

I've lowered my Bandwidth but I still have cable, so it's no trouble to me. But what of the person on dial-up. I know of 2, Cable Just Isn't available in their area.

They go and spend $50 for game, only to discover they need an internet connection to play it

Believe it or not, there were games before Steam

There were, but that is quickly going away my friend, you and everyone else in the world will have to adapt eventually because disk based format is going away very quickly.

That depends on the developers, I'd say.
If I'd have to go online each time to be able to play a game, I wouldn't play it.

you can put steam in offline mode and play if your internet is crap or something.

I was under the impression, the benifit of steam was to allow the use of more data than could be stored on your DVD

So now you're saying I need Steam's permission to play my own game

At a time that there are stricter and stricter government controls on the use of the internet

We in the western world are spoiled by our internet availability, I hope it continues

In response to your original wish, when and if OBD utilizes steam, they lose control of their data. Something I doubt will ever happen

I purchased a game years ago (Total War Empire) and when I got it home and discovered that it required STEAM to activate it, I never even broke the plastic wrap. As a result, it still sets on my shelf brand new since I will never use it as long as STEAM is required in any way.

Perhaps this thread would get a bit more informal, if someone with the knowledge
about STEAM or other such services could post their "pro" and/or "contra" views,
confirmed with the reasons for their views?

A brand new Empire Total War unopened and unloved.... sitting on a shelf.... oh the shame....

I used to really hate Steam. and still do sometimes. but you can set steam to offline and still launch the games in your library longs they not online only games, or so you used to be able to do. I think you need to add desktop icons for the games so you can launch them from desktop but i can't remember. I dont have any Steam games installed at the moment to check it.

My biggest hate bout Steam is if you own the game on a CD, that you have previously installed, but have since uninstalled for whatever reasons. when you try to install it again Steam wants to download the entire game, even thou you've run the install from the CD. and its a pain sometimes just to get Steam to forget bout downloading and just run the CD install that said.

Steam does keep your games in a library for you and even if they are not installed they are still listed and can be installed at a click. Steam also offers some great games at reduced prices due to them being digital downloads, but also special offers. and being able to use paypal is a big bonus. specially given alot of games today have after release addons or downloadable content stuff you wouldnt want sittig on a disk taking up shelf space.

WOFF and Steam.

My views i wouldn't be put off at the thought of WOFF being on Steam. If Steam was to provide the online arena for WOFF to be played in then, i am all for it,because prehaps that draw in new members in a steady stream if all was executed well. Also the modders could link up with OBD Software and provide downloadable content and prehaps get something back for the hard work they put in.
However if you feel strongly about a game you want to buy, regardless of certain options being cheaper, I think you should go out and buy the hard copy of the game but maybe thats just me.

My thoughts on Steam are only positive,as long as internet access isn't a problem.
Ok,I have had a few problems over the years but these were fixed by either opening a support ticket or just browsing the relevant Steam game forum.
Freiherr,I believe there is a way to force Steam to install from the disc.
Anyway,if you make a Steam back-up (which I do as soon as a game is installed) this need never be a problem anyway).

I would rather buy a game on Steam than retail and that goes for WOFF as well.

I've used steam since 2006. When steam first came out in 2003 everyone hattteeddd it, I don't know why because I wasn't a PC gamer at the time but in the last four or five years Steam has become THE place to buy games on the PC.

On average Steam has 4 million people logged in per day, there are over 25 million users signed up on steam.

Pros and cons?

Pros:

- All your games in one place, easy to launch and quick to access, saves you clutter both on your hard drive and desktop.

- Automatic updates, you don't have to search around on the web to find an update for your games anymore because steam automatically updates games whenever a new patch is uploaded by the developer. This can be turned off if you have slow internet.

- Steam puts up game sales on a daily basis, there are daily sales which are smaller single game sales, weekly sales which are large featured packs and sets of games for a bigger discount and then there's event sales like the summer sale, christmas sale etc. that throw up tons of games for huge discounts. It is possible to get some games cheaper from other sites but for the most part nobody beats Steam.

- Steam has a friendslist, you can chat, voice chat, upload and share screenshots to your profile, have multi person voice chats, games that are steam enabled you can easily invite friends to your server or match through the steam interface and with the game overlay you can also chat with them, open web pages in the game if you need to look something up without minimizing and it's just really convenient to have all your friends in one place to talk to whenever.

I mean I just don't see what's not to like unless you have poor internet and even then so what, they support indie devs really well and they get your game out to a lot of people really easily; what's not to like?

I don't really have any cons personally, there's some bugs I run into with my friends list but nothing that affects my games. Occasionally during a big game launch servers will get busy and you might have trouble downloading your game but that can be worked around by changing download servers.

HOWEVER I doubt that WOFF can be on steam unless they manage to get the CFS3 engine from microsoft or whatever it is they have to do so that you no longer require CFS3 to play it, because I doubt that Steam would allow that and if they did nobody would buy it.

Why? I really would like to know, do you have dial up?

Just checked this if you installed games on steam that have a offline mode. If you sign into your stream account in offline mode you can still launch and play your offline games.

I just tried this with Civ IV Colonization which is a digital download version not CD version. I'm pretty sure you can do this with the Total Wars I have Empire,Napoleon and Shogun 2. I'm certain i've played Empire and Shogun 2 without a internet connection so i assuming i've played Napoleon without 1 also thou i think Napolean has a online built into its single player so that might have issues i dont know.

if steam doesn't detect internet it does give you a option to sign in offline if i remember correctly also you can change to offline mode if you sign into steam while online by click steam in top left corner. my guess if your in offline mode you can sign out your dial up.

So no excuses install that Empire Total War Panama Red

You need to make sure you click "save my password" when you sign in next and that'll let you go into offline mode.

steam can be useful, if you're careful and know what you're doing. I hated it at first, but it grows on you. As copyprotection takes a back seat, indie developers and players will use it more.

It's important though to use multiple distribution mediums, it's common sense. Amazon is great, i've bought all my games through it for the last 5 years. Steam and Itunes are becoming more widely used for music, and well worth exploring for future releases.

Red makes a valid point. Unless this is somehow resolved, the rest is moot.

Hellshade

Steam is hatefull in about all ways unless you have a steady good internet conection. And of course in our lifestyle of traveling full time in our RV, we are often way out of range of any internet.

I have asked over and over just how to play CIV 5 while offline and as wierd as it may be, this is advice. Go online FIRST and then turn off ( ie: unplug MIFI in my case ) and continue to play offline and not turn off the computer. What a waste of electricty not to
mention the cost. All this for a $60 dollor game my kids sent me as a gift.

When my new computer arrived ( you folks were a GREAT help with all that ) I made one small error in typing in a code and it took weeks
to get clear instructions as to just what processes to go through so Steam ( and I think steam valve -- what ever that is ) would let me play MY GAME!

Most of the nasty "geeks" on the CIV 5 forum thought that is was very funny that I was having a hard time with steam. The number of incorrect postings as to just how to get back with steam was massive, and I feel intentional.

Every time I try to play offine the little box comes up and says try to reconnect with the internet and then log into steam.
One final bit, before you can logout a very large avert box pops up to offer all sorts of games. After you erase that advert box
and then try to shut off the computer a larger box pops up to say STEAM is not letting the computer shut off. This will last for a short time until steam is done.

I have had a bellyfull of STEAM, and would NEVER buy any game linked to steam or any other "cloud in the sky --- big brother" that
takes over some of my computer's function or time.

Being able to put in a disk and fly those great "kites" in "OFF" is wonderfull. Thanks to all who put it together.



CW3SF (some where in the Rockys of Colorado, soon to go Elk hunting with my son and grandson)

Okay CW, you're clearly a very special case, I don't know anyone who travels around in an RV and wants to play PC games at the same time, maybe think of investing in a console instead.

So right off the bat, you're a minority. The majority of people in modern society have broadband at this point, NOT EVERYONE! But the majority, people in well populated areas of europe and most of the US as well as Canada and Japan are pretty much covered and have access to broadband speeds. The fact that you travel around in an RV as you put it, is your life style choice and there are probably a lot of things you miss out on. Steam is not made for people who travel around in RVs.

As for all your other silly gripes.

It sounds like people have told you exactly how to play offline and yet you still gripe, again Steam is not made for people who travel on the road with no internet. The offline mode on steam is for people who know ahead of time they aren't going to have internet, say your ISP has notified you of a short down time, you can set it to offline mode so that you can play while your internet is down. I have a friend who takes his laptop to work and plays on his lunchbreak with no internet, so ahead of time he updates his "cloud- big brother" saves and then sets steam to offline mode, this way he can play at work on his laptop whether he has a connection or not.

Regarding "before you logout a very large advert box pops up to offer all sorts of games", yes whenever you shut down a game it will bring up a box telling you about recent deals; it's an advertisement so it can bring your attention to the specials and deals at the time, this is actually why having your game on steam would probably be a great thing because this is one way Valve brings people's attention to games that aren't big AAA "blockbusters."

If you want to get rid of the box saying "steam needs to close" when you shut off your computer, then right click steam's icon on the task bar and hit "exit" it will take a second to close and then you can shut down without a hitch, but why on earth is this a problem? Every PC does this with any program, when you hit shut down it has to go through the process of shutting off every program properly.

Sorry to say but it sounds to me like you're an old guy who refuses to adapt to changing technology, which is your prerogative and I wish you luck.

We haven't decided on all the methods for distribution, first thing we need to do it actually finish making it. When we do we'll try to cater for as many people as possible with whatever chosen distribution methods.

I hate this Steam threads....
There's always someone who viciously hate and another who insanely love Steam.
Everyone has his own reasons and I respect them.
Hopefully the game will be distributed by digital and by physical means, and everyone will be please.

Well spoken - and could I have a physical something in a box with a cover please?
I am old fashioned.

Steam ? I agree with Herr Olham,

As a Total War player, I have games in the series (Empire TW, Napoleon TW and Shogun 2) that need Steam to install. I was no too excited about it, but in fact I connected to Steam once to install, and a couple of times afterwards whenever I read on the forums there was an update available. Other than that, I've always played offline. Just start Steam in offline mode and start my game after. I'm also using mods and everything works fine. So not really a big problem ...

I won't get into the reasons why I hate Steam (I'm tired of that) but one thing I'm sure:

-> I won't buy WOFF or any other game on Steam, that's for sure!!!

Yes, I'm "old fashioned" as well since I also prefer a physical disk (CD or DVD) and I don't care what others may think about this. And if I have to select and buy a game thru an online retailer I would choose Gamergate (already purchased a few "games", mainly addons there) and I would never choose Steam!

The only problem with Steam is with automatic game updates (patches), they are sometimes slow in coming. But in all fairness it's not really an all Steam issue but mostly a developer issue. Steam does not seem to allow an automatic download/install of a game update (through Steam) if it not mostly ready, so in other words you don't get "Beta" updates through Steam. But there are workarounds if you want to apply a "Beta" update to try on a game you purchased on Steam. If the update breaks more then it fixes it also real easy with Steam to get your game back to where it was before the update was applied. Plus Steam and Gamersgate do offer a one stop place to get many games and DLC's that you would never find in a brick and mortar store. On my last trip to my local Game Stop the PC game section consisted of one 4x5 rack with maybe 20 PC games on it, and they were mostly RPG's, Shooters or MMO's (no simulators at all). Of the last 15 games or DLC I have purchased recently over 3/4 have been digital downloads from either Steam or Gamersgate and I really have no complaints whatsoever.

As with anything it really comes down to the user and how comfortable/uncomfortable they are with these services. I use to be a big "I want a hardcopy not a digital download" guy also. But like Bob Dillon said "the times they are a changing" and if you want to play whats new you best get somewhat comfortable with these new services cause they are not going to go away now. Of course you can stay under your rock and play games from the 1990's and early 2000's only

@ricnunes,
Hate to break this to you but Steam and Gamersgate are tied very closely together on a lot of titles. I rescently purchased Il-2 CLoD on Gamersgate because it was a few $$ cheaper then Steam, guess where I had to go and activate Il-2 and in which library it shows up under?

As long as your internet use remains free, operations like Steam will exist. The gentlemen over at the UN are thinking about an internet use tax, the proceeds to fund vaccines for third world countries

We said sales tax would never come to the internet also.

If there ever comes a time, that I must pay to play. So much for surfing the web, and Steam and all such sevices

PS . . . make mine on disc

Pol, can't you just be all things for all people at all times? Is that really that much to ask?

Steam, DVD, CD. Hell, if you ship it on 360k low density 5.25" floppies I'll find a way to get WOFF installed.

If anyone refuses to buy the sim because they don't like one of the formats it becomes available in, that's their loss.

Don't listen to any of it Pol. What you can do for delivery options is what you can do. OBD already has shown a strong track record for doing it's very best for it's customers. Some people just aren't happy unless they are crying like a victim, even when nothing is wrong.

I don't see why anyone would not want it to be on steam as it would most assuredly bring in more money and get the game to more people and if you want it to be successful I don't see how that could possibly be a bad thing.

That's probably because you don't listen to the people having problems Redpiano.

Personally, I really don't like applications which 'do things' to my PC without my prior consent. It doesn't matter if it's a hamless thing they want to do, they're taking a liberty with my equipment. I don't like the way that's becomming commonplace. I pay for my bandwidth, and I prefer to decide what its used for rather than abdicate that decision to a salesman.

What I hate most about Steam is the number of ad hominem attacks it seems to inspire.

Is the problem Steam or is this just crappy behavior? good grief!

I have sims on Steam and sims on disc. Sims/games aren't my entire life or even my entire entertainment, so I don't get up in arms about stuff like this. As when the cable is out, if the internet is down I--and this might sound kinda crazy--just go do something else (I don't really watch TV, but work with me here). I have a lot of something elses to do and, besides, the internet is never out for long. I don't worry about any telemedia conspiracy that dictates what shows I can watch at specific times, or what games I can play when, yadda, and I damn sure don't search for molehills to turn into mountains. "The killer bees are coming and we'll have to live inside!" "The next ice age is coming!" "Global warming is going to kill us all!" "Y2K!" "The world is ending May 5 2000!" "We'll all catch AIDS from mosquitoes!" "People hide AIDS needles in theatres!" "The hole in the ozone is giving everyone cancer!" "Acid rain will kill the world's forests by 1992!" "Cell phones blow up gas stations!" Blaahhh blaahhh blaahhh. People worry about that nonsense and talk about it endlessly, and then what actually happens is something largely unexpected, such as some mideast f #%&*$#-stains crashing hijacked planes into buildings.


Anyway, more power to one's beliefs, but IMO the real concern should be the usury-esque shipping cost of OTF products. Their/your products are outstanding, no doubt, but nine bucks to ship a lil' ol' disc? Seriously? I paid it, and will pay it again if I must, but seriously?

What exactly is steam doing with your equipment? Everything it does automatically can be turned off.

Hate to break it to you Uncleal but you already pay taxes on your internet, look at your bill As far as the UN dictating a world tax on internet use I really don't see that happening (at least in the USA anyway). They tried stuff like this before and basically no US Congressman or Senator, right or left will ever give that stamp of approval if they want to keep their jobs. Now the US taxing it own citizens for internet usage could be whole another matter. As far as sales taxes on internet purchases go I was pretty sure all along that this would have happened eventually. It was a sweet ride while it lasted but when billions of dollars of merchandise is being sold (probably more merchandise being sold on the internet then at brick and mortar stores) and the US Government and states were not getting their tax monies on these sales it was a foregone conclusion that it wouldn't last forever. But I'm with Hellshade on this one, however WOFF is sold I'll be buying it.

Aren't you all tired of these Steam threads?
I would close this thread for good, before it turn out nasty, like happens in most of the times.
Devs already answered:

Not to get all political one this forum, but some pretty outragous crap has become law, accomplished via Executive Order, The U.S.Congress has never been consulted

Normally I would absolutely agree with you on this one VP, but having just read JFMs list of outstanding whack job conspiracy theories, I must say I'm morbidly fascinated with where this all might lead. My vote for the final WOFF Steam theory is as follows:

When the Y2K Bug hit, the Illuminati used it as cover to blow up gas stations with their cell phones to create a hole in the ozone layer which was intended to speed up global warming. It was all an effort to off-set the impending Ice Age which was being caused by the global deforestation, itself caused by the effects of acid rain...which as we all know was supposed to destroy the rain forests by 1992 but turned out to be a full 8 years behind schedule. (Many are blaming Congress) Naturally, the killer bees were forced out of Brazil since their habitat was wiped out and made a new home in America Movie theaters, where their constant stings gave rise to the utterly preposterous fear of AIDs needles being left there on purpose. (Thank God that's cleared up!) Attempts to contact the Illuminati have been stonewalled because, due to Tea Party led budget cuts in the US Postal Service, mail is no longer delivered to Area 51. When reached for comment, the left wing extremist P.E.T.A. organization simply responded with "postal carriers aren't animals. Let them starve."

Meanwhile, OBD just wants to finish their sim and will then secure whatever means possible to distribute it because it's in their best interests to make as many options for purchase as possible available to their customers. They may or may not offer the option you like because OBD - contrary to popular belief - is NOT the Illuminati. (Yes, I was disappointed too. I kept hoping Pol's real identity would turn out to be Tom Hanks. Or maybe Tom Cruise. Hey, ever notice all secret societies have a leader who's first name is Tom? hmmm) At any rate they (OBD, not the Illuminati) don't control everything under the sun, as much as we would like to believe they do.

I'm not 100% sure about the OBD part, but I'd bet my life on the rest of it.

P.S. Everyone's getting cancer.

Discuss.

Hellshade that conspiracy tie togather was worthy of Lovert. Thanks that was very helpful in getting alot of things right in my mind.

Thats very true Uncleal and I sure don't want to get too political either, but if I remember my American Civics classes correctly (could be wrong here as that was a looooong time ago) anything like that kind of law from the UN has to be ratified by congress as it would have to be along the lines of a treaty of some sort.

Steer clear from the politics please guys, Steam chat fine. Pretty varied opinions on steam eh...

I can hardly wait to get back from Elk hunting and see what else has been said.

My whole point was paying $$$ for a game and not being able to use it when an internet connection is unavailable is wrong.
My money my game!!!

To be up front about Steam and CIV 5, some time ago playing off line could be done ever so often. Now that is not happening.

The out cry of this issue on the CIV 5 forums is wide, deap and very angry.

When I said there has to be a better way, I fully expcited someone to offer up "some other way". That has YET to HAPPEN!

Could "some other way" be intering a package code plus a password each time?

I would hope some of you folks who are GURUS would work on this. And the others who are ranting about all sorts of "stuff" cool off
and have a pint.

It is misleading to say that you can always play your Steam game in offline mode. Each time you restart your computer, you have to log in to switch to offline mode. Catch-22, get it? So, if you have a laptop and are going to be away from the internet, you're out of luck unless you log in before you leave home and leave the laptop on all the time. If you are at home, you have to log in every day and switch modes. Internet out? Tough luck. Steam server borked, as it often is? Too bad.

I allowed Steam onto my computer for only one reason; to play Skyrim. I don't plan to ever buy another game that requires Steam.

This never happened to me with in any of the titles that I purchased on Gamersgate. True that I didn't buy IL-2 CLoD on Gamersgate or in any other place for that matter (and most certainly never will!) but I did notice that when you open this game (IL2 CLoD) purchase page on Gamergate that the information about it's DRM will show as: "Steamworks". But most of them games (and all that I purchased) on Gamersgate don't have "Steamworks" has their DRM which is fine for me and somehow contradicts what you are claiming - I will say that IL-2 CLoD is rather an exception than a rule.
So regarding Gamersgate and purchasing games there it's simple: If it has "Steamworks" DRM (or any other that I don't like) I won't buy it, at least there!

I also find amusing that some people here seem to be "pissed" that some (or perhaps many) of us don't want to buy any games on Steam AND and at the same time are also AGAINST the WOFF devs aptempt to distribute the game thru others means other than Steam! It's also amusing to read that if we (the ones that don't like Steam) don't buy WOFF is our loss - No if we that don't like Steam don't buy WOFF it's the devs lost PERIOD - from where I came from a NO PURCHASE EQUALS TO A NO PROFIT!

Anyway, I'm glad that the devs are working on alternative ways (alternative to Steam) to distribute and sell WOFF. You can bet that I will be one of the customers that will certainly buy from a diferent source other than Steam and will never buy on Steam, that's for sure!

Well in the highly unlikely event that STEAM ends up being the only distribution model - I guess all the people waging a "Holy War" against STEAM can just enjoy the screen shots and video clips provided by players who were willing to purchase it through that method, even if it's not our preferred choice through which to purchase.

Yes, the Devs will lose out on some money. You, on the other hand, will lose out on hundreds, possibly thousands of hours of historically accurate WWI flight sim bliss. I'm sure the choice will be worth it to you just to deprive STEAM of a few dollars.

Hellshade

Well, this discussion sure put some steam in the boiler... heheh heh ...<crickets>

You know I'm WAY out of the loop when I just found out about Steam last fall. FWIW, I'll take a DVD or even a jump drive any day. Due to budget restrictions, I have the slowest cable internet they offer. Plus, just being a crotchety old thing, I like my games and my forums (even beloved ones such as you guys) separate. i don't play a lot or buy a lot; just my flight sims. So Steam wouldn't do much for me.

It seems HIGHLY unlikely that Pol and the rest of the devs (God help them, and I mean that) would go to a Steam-only distribution, if (as has been noted) the can distribute on Steam at all, due to the Microsoft connection. So let's all climb out of our trenches, exchange gifts, play soccer, and hang on for two more weeks...!

Best,

Tom

I did said " a lot" which implies more then just a few games but certainly not indicating a majority, 1/2 or even 1/4 of the games offered at Gamersgate. Here are some other games I purchased at Gamersgate, Shogun 2 (and all DLC), Saints Row 2-3 (and all DLC), Dead Island Game of the Year Edition, The Walking Dead are just some examples that have Steamworks DRM so it's more then just Il-2 being an exception to the rule. Yes you are very correct in they all say "Steamworks" in the DRM section but it still shows that Gamersgate has some kind of agreement with Steam on selling certain titles. So it is possible anyone buying games on Gamersgate thinking they are avoiding Steam altogether could find out differently just by not noticing the DRM or knowing beforehand that the game is a Steam exclusive. But what if the DRM is not listed at all? Heres an example on one game I purchased at Gamersgate, Dead Island Game of the Year Edition, list no DRM whatsoever but it's Steamworks. I'm not saying I was misled by Gamersgate because Steam or no Steam doesn't matter, for myself it all comes down to who has it at the best price.

Steam will not be linked to WOFF.

HTH

WM

And with that, there can be no doubt that an important question has finally been settled.

OBD is in fact...the Illuminati.

You really need it, Human Drone.

I do indeed. I have a somewhat higher count over at Combat Ace, but I'm certainly no Olham! They have some pretty nice "smilies" here, though!

On the subject of Steam: If I came home one day and laid out this killer business plan for content distribution, forums, etc, and got the family all hyped up about it, said I had funding, we were gonna be rich, blah, blah, blah and then they said, "What are you going to call it?" and I said "STEAM!", immediately all conversation would stop, they'd roll their eyes and walk out of the room. Same with things like "Bluetooth." Who names this stuff?!

Yup steam sucks but it's great

Steam is named steam because it's made by Valve, steam, valve you get the idea.

Anyways, they just put out an update that lets you sign into offline mode without being online first, so now you have no reason to hate steam.

Well, I have no opinion, hate or otherwise, on Steam, but again, who decides to name a software distribution company "Valve"? I guess that halfway makes sense, at least.

But anyway, part of the attempted humor of my post was that my family is so used to my cornball ways that as soon as I came out with the oddball name they'd assume the venture was doomed to fail. They'd be like "Why would you cripple a really good idea with a really screwball name?" and they'd be all over my case for being deliberately weird... and yet, these unusual names succeeded.

Oh, and bisher - steam doesn't suck, it blows. Usually. I have seen steam siphons used once in a while.

This IS AWESOME news! PERIOD.

Thanks for the reply WM.