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Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase)

Posted By: citizen guod

Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/08/12 07:01 PM

http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/in...136&lang=en

At the time of posting this, DCS is still uploading their files to the page.
Posted By: Silver_Dragon

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/08/12 07:05 PM



Quote:
Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 (FC3) is the next evolution of the Flaming Cliffs series. FC3 features the F-15C, A-10A, Su-27, Su-33, MiG-29A, MiG-29S, Su-25T, and Su-25. FC3 aircraft provide an easy learning curve for new players and focuses on a broad range of aircraft rather than a detailed single aircraft. FC3 adds a number of new features and improvements to previous versions of the Flaming Cliffs series. FC3 is a module of DCS: World, which makes it compatible with all other DCS: World titles like A-10C, Black Shark 2, P-51D, and Combined Arms.


Key Features of Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 include:
A DCS World module that is compatible with DCS titles.
New 6 degrees of freedom (6DOF) cockpit and model for the F-15C.
New F-15C campaign and single missions.
Improved cockpit art for Russian aircraft.
Improved landing dynamics.
Improved flight dynamics for air-to-air missiles.
Updated and improved HUDs and other cockpit systems.
Resource Manager that adds logistics control to missions.
Expanded theatre of operations map into eastern Georgia.
Countless other improvements in the areas of the mission editor, special effects, new models, improved terrain detail and AI.
Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 will require an installation of Lock On: Modern Air Combat or previous version Flaming Cliffs.
Posted By: NavyNuke99

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/08/12 07:07 PM

Well, there goes my weekend!

thumbsup band biggrin whoohoo
Posted By: speck01

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/08/12 07:31 PM

Nice! It's up for purchase now. Kinda wish it wasn't a beta, but oh well - certainly not going to stop me from downloading and enjoying it!
Posted By: UnderTheRadar

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/08/12 07:56 PM

Now I am even more pissed off that I failed my test on Monday and need to keep studying for my retake... grrr...


Purchased it anyway though smile
Posted By: boomerang10

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/08/12 08:03 PM

Figures...I won't have computer access for three months after tomorrow and today is when they release it.
Posted By: Mace71

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/08/12 08:42 PM

Can someone post their thoughts on it when they get chance please? Want to know whether it is just FC2 in DCS World as some of the cockpits I'd seen in screenshots looked like the bad ones in FC2...

This makes me wonder even more:

Quote:
Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 will require an installation of Lock On: Modern Air Combat or previous version Flaming Cliffs.


Why? Just an update?....
Posted By: GrayGhost

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/08/12 09:17 PM

Because FC is part of the LO franchise which Ubi owns, therefore it is required that it is sold as an add-on to LO.
Posted By:

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/08/12 09:26 PM

I'll wait with the purchase for FC 8.0
Posted By: scotsmen54

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/08/12 09:26 PM

Oh my god, not another pre-purchase Beta. For FC, please give me a break, how many years does it take to get it to work right. FC3 should have been damn near perfect by now. Well, That does it for me, I'm finally finished. I was holding on for FC3 but certainly not this after all these years.MY OPINION. Not wasting any more money on unfinished Projects. banghead
Posted By: valleyboy

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/08/12 10:28 PM

Got it, and playing..... found a bug already! refueling in the F-15... is impossible! as soon as the boom is called contact, aircraft rolls sharply to the left and unstopable... until it disconnects tried a few times now, looks like something in the modelling of the boom and the position that it makes contact on the aircraft...
ahh well, back to practicing on the hog for now!
Posted By: NavyNuke99

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/08/12 10:50 PM

Playing as well- launched a quick mission in the Su-33. Took off, flew around a bit, landed- CTD. Also a few graphic oddities. Pics coming soon to the Photo subforum.
Posted By: Para_Bellum

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/08/12 10:54 PM

Is it correct that only the F-15 got a facelift?
Posted By: Remon

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/08/12 10:58 PM

Originally Posted By: scotsmen54
Oh my god, not another pre-purchase Beta. For FC, please give me a break, how many years does it take to get it to work right. FC3 should have been damn near perfect by now. Well, That does it for me, I'm finally finished. I was holding on for FC3 but certainly not this after all these years.MY OPINION. Not wasting any more money on unfinished Projects. banghead


Relax. This is a beta, the game hasn't been released yet. If you want, you can wait for the official release, if not, well...

Originally Posted By: Para_Bellum
Is it correct that only the F-15 got a facelift?



The F-15 gets a 3d 6-DOF cockpit. The other planes, the russian ones at least, are getting the Picardo's HD mods as official cockpits. I think.
Posted By: NavyNuke99

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/08/12 11:07 PM

Originally Posted By: Remon


The F-15 gets a 3d 6-DOF cockpit. The other planes, the russian ones at least, are getting the Picardo's HD mods as official cockpits. I think.


Yep- though there are definite differences between the Ricardo model from FC2 and this one- pics in the screenshot gallery.
Posted By: Master

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/09/12 12:49 AM

DCS world is such a cluster%#&$ to install. They could not have come up with a worse system if they were being paid to.
Posted By: Smokin_Hole

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/09/12 01:15 AM

Originally Posted By: valleyboy
Got it, and playing..... found a bug already! refueling in the F-15... is impossible! as soon as the boom is called contact, aircraft rolls sharply to the left and unstopable... until it disconnects tried a few times now, looks like something in the modelling of the boom and the position that it makes contact on the aircraft...
ahh well, back to practicing on the hog for now!


Yeah, I noticed that too. It seems like some sort of bugged assist feature. Once you connect it begins to modulate the throttles automatically until disconnect. While searching for an option to disable this "feature" I noticed that there is only 1 tab under Options/Special: the Ka50. The P-51 rudder assist tab is gone.
Posted By: Mizzy

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/09/12 01:23 AM

Originally Posted By: scotsmen54
Oh my god, not another pre-purchase Beta. For FC, please give me a break, how many years does it take to get it to work right. FC3 should have been damn near perfect by now. Well, That does it for me, I'm finally finished. I was holding on for FC3 but certainly not this after all these years.MY OPINION. Not wasting any more money on unfinished Projects. banghead


Were you born ignorant, or just taking lessons acting it !
Posted By: Smokin_Hole

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/09/12 01:24 AM

I will say that while the F-15 does look nice from the inside and sounds awesome from the outside, FC3 is EXACTLY what you are expecting: FC2 with a nice pit flying in the improved DCS world. If you buy this on curiosity you will struggle to find a substantial difference. The F-15 flies exactly the same except that you can now land on one wheel. The new missile behavior--perhaps the coolest new feature--can easily be observed within World without buying FC3. The only reason to buy this is so that when your A-10C gets shotdown in a MP server, you can grab a F-15 and extract some revenge. That's really it.
Posted By: Mizzy

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/09/12 01:29 AM

Originally Posted By: valleyboy
Got it, and playing..... found a bug already! refueling in the F-15... is impossible! as soon as the boom is called contact, aircraft rolls sharply to the left and unstopable... until it disconnects tried a few times now, looks like something in the modelling of the boom and the position that it makes contact on the aircraft...
ahh well, back to practicing on the hog for now!


Surely you play FC series for more reason than refueling the F15? Rather narrow perspective do you not think ;-)

Mizzy
(Ex Beta Tester 'Black Shark' 'Flaming Cliffs 2')
Posted By: PFunk

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/09/12 01:31 AM

My DCS World auto-updated without a hitch to the latest version and I installed FC3 without any problems. Running fine.
Posted By: Mizzy

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/09/12 01:32 AM

Originally Posted By: Para_Bellum
Is it correct that only the F-15 got a facelift?



Read the 'read me' ;-)..just a hint LOL
Posted By: Mizzy

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/09/12 01:33 AM

Originally Posted By: PFunk
My DCS World auto-updated without a hitch to the latest version and I installed FC3 without any problems. Running fine.


neaner
Posted By: Mizzy

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/09/12 01:37 AM

Originally Posted By: Master
DCS world is such a cluster%#&$ to install. They could not have come up with a worse system if they were being paid to.


DCS World will undoubtedly confuse people from 'Alabama' charge ..only joking x

Mizzy
Posted By: speck01

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/09/12 02:14 AM

My first impressions are man alive did FC2 come with way more single player content!

Really hope more missions and campaigns are coming when it's out of beta. Even if it's just getting whatever FC2 stuff they can moved over.

I mean, the F-15 looks awesome, I'm sure the campaign will be fun, but after that it's looking thin mission/campaign wise.

Anyhow, back to mapping all kinds of butttons!
Posted By: LawnDartLeo

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/09/12 02:37 PM

Originally Posted By: Master
DCS world is such a cluster%#&$ to install. They could not have come up with a worse system if they were being paid to.


Install DCS WORLD.... Install modules you want.... Call me confused but that is about the simplest method of distribution I can think of.

Then again, I witnessed the meltdown of friend as he struggled to grasp installing DCSW, then the BS2 and A-10 modules. I find it incredibly simple... but maybe that is just me.
Posted By: 531 Ghost

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/09/12 03:41 PM

Mizzy: Let me be clear, that's enough. Any questions, feel free to click on what YOU signed up to in my signature. MMMMKAY?
Posted By: GrayGhost

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/09/12 04:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Smokin_Hole
The F-15 flies exactly the same except that you can now land on one wheel.


People who don't do intercept profiles and take their A2A more seriously will probably not notice the differences, that is true. It is also true that underlying flight model has not changed (ie. going from SFM to AFM), but it was never meant to.

Quote:
The new missile behavior--perhaps the coolest new feature--can easily be observed within World without buying FC3.


The new missile behaviour is part of the FC3 featureset in terms of what's funding the change. Yes, it is integrated into world, probably because ED doesn't want to do something inane like making your buy FC3 to get that feature.
Posted By: GrayGhost

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/09/12 04:29 PM

Known bug, squashed in testing IIRC.

Originally Posted By: valleyboy
Got it, and playing..... found a bug already! refueling in the F-15... is impossible! as soon as the boom is called contact, aircraft rolls sharply to the left and unstopable... until it disconnects tried a few times now, looks like something in the modelling of the boom and the position that it makes contact on the aircraft...
ahh well, back to practicing on the hog for now!
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/09/12 04:33 PM

like the spinner rims.. lol... and no wing tip trails....
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/09/12 04:34 PM

if some one wanted to, they could make a ClickableData.LUA for the F-15C, the Arg Animations for all the Switches are in place kneeldown
Posted By: blindone

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/09/12 05:21 PM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
if some one wanted to, they could make a ClickableData.LUA for the F-15C, the Arg Animations for all the Switches are in place kneeldown


Are you raising ur hand?

I would buy it- if they had the clickable cockpit. that's the only drawback for me.
Posted By: PFunk

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/09/12 11:11 PM

Mizzy, that's two personal attacks against two different members in one thread. Please edit your posts, or I will edit them for you.
Posted By: Para_Bellum

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/10/12 12:32 AM

Originally Posted By: Remon

The F-15 gets a 3d 6-DOF cockpit. The other planes, the russian ones at least, are getting the Picardo's HD mods as official cockpits. I think.


Thanks, mate.
Posted By: Nate

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/10/12 02:53 AM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
if some one wanted to, they could make a ClickableData.LUA for the F-15C, the Arg Animations for all the Switches are in place kneeldown


It is doable - even as a mod.

Nate
Posted By: redpiano

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/10/12 06:57 AM

Can someone describe the complexity level to me. Startup, weapon systems etc. compared to the A10c what is it like.
Posted By: Frederf

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/10/12 07:46 AM

Have you played the Su-25T for DCS World?
Posted By: Wolfen

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/10/12 07:48 AM

What they said about the clickable F-15C cockpit above. Seems like making a 1000 mile trip and then deciding in the last 50 miles you're not up to it. What a waste. And honestly, is partial implementation of an AFM for the F-15C, particularly during takeoff or approach too much to ask after X number of years. The Su-25T, A-10C and P-51D demon are nearly the only planes really worth flying because you actually feel like you performed an authentic takeoff and landing cycle, or something close to it.
Posted By: redpiano

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/10/12 07:57 AM

Originally Posted By: Frederf
Have you played the Su-25T for DCS World?


Yup.
Posted By: Frederf

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/10/12 10:24 AM

Su-25T is a FC-level simulation. FC3 aircraft are comparable in complexity.
Posted By: redpiano

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/10/12 12:57 PM

Yeah I went ahead and bought FC3, enjoying it quite a bit.
Posted By: Smokin_Hole

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/10/12 02:42 PM

I'm suffering a little from buyer's remorse. It is entirely self-inflicted. ED were perfectly clear about what I would and WOULD NOT be purchasing. What I had forgotten before playing FC3 was how I had long ago moved on from FC2. Excepting the Su25s, the FMs are just horrible. I had forgotten that until that first scripted takeoff in the F-15 two days ago. Then I said, "Sucker! Remember? This is why you never flew that thing!" But ED can also be blamed for making me feel this way. After all, they raised the bar so high with the Su25 and later, the Ka50 and A-10C. It's ok. It certainly won't be the 1st $40 I've wasted (P-51), nor the last. And I am sure I will find something productive to do with the old-school Su25.
Posted By: scotsmen54

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/10/12 04:10 PM

Originally Posted By: PFunk
Mizzy, that's two personal attacks against two different members in one thread. Please edit your posts, or I will edit them for you.


I guess he doesn't want to listen to you.

Would appreciate it if you remove the offending posts. Thanks.
Posted By: Wolfen

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/10/12 04:59 PM

I'm a bit disappointed, honestly. Nothing has changed. The manual is the same except for the cover. The tutorials are the same. That in particular I didn't really expect. The flight characteristics are basically unchanged, except for maybe very subtle things and for those who are more erudite. The Su-25 is still basically the only plane worth flying in FC3 as it has been for many years. The avionics are still like game avionics. The only difference it seems is that it now fits into DCS World.
Posted By: Enigmatist

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/10/12 06:04 PM

I think its brilliant jump in and fly stuff, only thing it lacks are more missions and campaigns
Posted By: Hamblue

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/10/12 06:43 PM

The only Issue I have with FC3 is that I flew A-10C first. At this point I'm spoiled with the clickable cockpit. Only additional planes with clickable cockpits will satisify me at this point.
I think it's worth the 40 bucks but doesn't hold a candle to the A-10C and probably the KA-50 (don't have it)
Posted By: redpiano

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/11/12 08:25 AM

I also think it's great, not having played previous lock on games this gave me incentive by providing me with a better looking plane to fly and the new and better DCSW menus. I don't think it's worth 40$ but it's not like they're going to lower it.

Plus being able to just hop in and go without all the complexity of the A10c or BS2 is very nice.
Posted By: GrayGhost

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/11/12 08:44 AM

It is meant for a) people who want an easier/simpler fare and b) those who must have fast-movers and A2A combat no matter what (like me!). The community did ask for FC3 in order to bridge the FC2 -> DCS Fast Movers transition. So, you can play online now with air to air aircraft supporting you should your mission have airborne opposition ( or, perhaps, they'll come hunt for you if they're on the wrong side ... )

Originally Posted By: Hamblue
I think it's worth the 40 bucks but doesn't hold a candle to the A-10C and probably the KA-50 (don't have it)
Posted By: Silver_Dragon

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/11/12 09:31 PM

FC3 updated features

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1601224&postcount=1
Quote:
Although a list of changes were stated on the FC3 web page, it seems that this was not noticed by many users. Many of these changes were in fact what the team has been working on since the product was delayed. This was in addition to addressing many serious bugs.

FC3 page: http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/series/flaming_cliffs_3/

There will of course be further changes while FC3 is beta, but until those features are final and integrated into an installer, we cannot comment on them at this time.

(sorry, I was out of the country when FC3 was released)

---

DCS World Integration

Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 operates as part of DCS World. As such, DCS World must be installed prior to installing Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3. DCS World is a new, free, combat simulation. DCS World provides a free-to-play Su-25T ground attack aircraft with no online restrictions. Online DCS: World includes friendly and enemy forces that can be controlled by other players or AI air and ground units. The purchase of additional DCS modules allows the player to have careers as pilots of the A-10C Warthog, KA-50 Black Shark attack helicopter, P-51D Mustang, or armor vehicle commander. You may read more about DCS: World and its modules at: http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/

Common F-15C and A-10A Changes

- Updated US RWR threats display logic - threats in scan mode do not update their position continuously anymore.
- US RWR display symbology was made stabilized to the horizon.
- Glide slope/localizer deviation bars were removed from F-15C/A-10A HUDs.
- Adjusted F-15C/A-10A HUD gun reticle distance sector visual appearance.

New F-15C Cockpit and Updated Cockpit Systems

Perhaps the most noticeable new features with Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 is the new, beautiful cockpit. This cockpit is fully rendered in every detail and provides 6 degrees of freedom of movement within the cockpit. This new cockpit includes both day and night lighting, an improved HUD that is focused to infinity, re-worked HUD symbols and many improvements and new functions for the radar and radar warning receiver:

- New flap position lights
- Flaps position lights logic was updated.
- AI & SAM warning lights are functional now.
- Active jamming is indicated by open X in the center of TEWS screen. Flashing X - standby, steady X - active.
- CHAFF/FLARE, and MINIMUM lights are operational now.
- Marker beacon light was made functional. MKR display was added on HUD.
- Added CSET display on HUD - is displayed for the first 10 seconds after ILS mode selection.
- Steer mode select knob was animated.
- Fixed HUD Integrated Flight Director indication.
- Added bank steering bar on HUD.
- HUD altitude scale is always barometric now.
- Removed radar altimeter scale from HUD.
- Fixed AoA scale and numeric indication on HUD.
- Adjusted HUD display logic of Mach number and current/maximum G displays.
- ADI light was made functional.
- Fixed unstable radar lock at certain ranges in the vertical scan mode.
- Radar scan zone in TWS is limited by 60 degrees now.
- DTWS scan zone automatic centering is implemented.

Changes to the A-10A

- Fixed bank steering pointer and bank indicator animation on ADI.
- Adjusted TVV position limits on HUD. Out of view arrow has been added for TVV.
- Pitch numerics were changed to Flight Path Angle numerics on HUD.
- Adjusted position limits of various HUD symbols.
- Reworked visual shape and display logic of the destination index (tadpole).
- Added TD box (steer point position) on HUD.
- Fixed visual appearance of the Target Designator Cue (TDC) on HUD.

Changes to the MiG-29 and Su-27/33

- Stations display was removed from Su-27/33 HUD.
- Radar scan zone on Russian aircrafts is now always centered on the tracked target in TWS.
- 'Target unlock' command is now functional in Russian TWS - current track and radar contacts data is cleared.
- Radar is correctly returns back to TWS (instead of RWS) on Russian aircrafts when STT is lost.
Common Changes to All Aircraft
- Fixed momentary jump of the HSI course pointer in some cases when steerpoint is switched.
- HSI course/bearing/distance pointers and ADI steering/deviation bars animation was made smooth in all aircrafts

Improved Air-to-Air Missile Flight Dynamics

- With a return to a heavy focus on air-to-air combat in Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3, the flight dynamics physics of air-to-air missiles has been improved in multiple ways:
- Launcher platform speed, thrust, missile weight, total drag, gravity, etc. are all calculated to determine missile speed.
- Missiles now incur realistic energy bleed that accounts for drag, induced drag and gravity. Induced drag calculates g-load and that factors the missile’s lift. Missiles will now bleed energy very quickly if the target performs hard maneuvers.
- We added a longitudinal-load fuze arming type. The missile warhead of missile will only be armed after reaching the assigned longitudinal g-load (acceleration). Otherwise the missile will not detonate.
- We added a limited duration to the missile’s power system (gas-generator, generator and hydraulic pump). When the onboard power system is exhausted, the missile goes ballistic.
- We added a self-destruction timer. Some missiles will self-destruct when the timer is reached.
- We added altitude based of self-destruction. Some missiles will destruct when reaching an assigned altitude above ground level.
- We added a guidance timer delay. After launching a missile, the missile will fly straight from the from launcher for safety reasons before initiating the guidance stage. This is typically 0.3…1.5 seconds. For example: the R-27R missile flies unguided forward for 0.5 seconds before guidance to target starts.
- We added parameters of loft trajectory. The initial range to target, the range of transition to proportional navigation, and initial angle of loft are all factored.

Resource Manager

In any war, logistics plays one of the most critical roles. If an army air force cannot be resupplied, it will be useless in battle. The new Resource Manger allows mission designers to add the element of resource management into missions.
Mission builders can now place warehouses on the battle map and allow them to resupply airbases and other facilities with set amounts of weapons and fuel. This can be done for both single player and multiplayer missions.

---

I posted this earlier but I think it bears worth repeating here:

Philosophy Behind the Release of FC3

Although it was not stated in the original announcement, I wanted to share the motivation behind FC3 and the logic behind some of the choices we made.

With the current divide between FC2 and DCS, we felt there was an unneeded gap between the two products that only served divide the larger Eagle Dynamics product community. Further, those flying DCS online really had no dedicated fighter aircraft, just mud movers. For a more encompassing online experience, this needs to change.

Given that "DCS: Fighter" is still a ways off, we hope that FC3 will serve as a good bridge while we continue to flesh out the stable of DCS aircraft (both 1st and 3rd party). However, given the time window for this and the available resources, there was a lot of back and forth discussion internally of what we could and could not do in a reasonable time frame. In the end, a list of improvements was created that we believe will most benefit FC3. Many of these improvements though (like AAM AFM, resource manager, etc.) could not be specific to an FC3 install, rather they would have to be part of DCSW or it would break the game online. Make no mistake though that these features were specifically created for and budged for FC3.

As for the new and improved F-15C cockpit, work on this started about a year ago because we felt of all the FC aircraft, it is the most popular. That is not a slight to the eastern aircraft, nor any indication of some sort of western bias. While we would also have LOVED to include a new and improved MiG-29 or Su-27 cockpit, the time needed would fall well outside the product window. As someone that has been flying Eagle products since the original Flanker, I too look forward to a new Crane cockpit!

As mentioned before by our moderators that show boundless patience, it is not our decision regarding the requirement for a LOMAC installation. This was a stipulation with Ubisoft that allowed us to create these addons. However, this is also a big reason why FC3 will probably be the last LOMAC product.

Finally, on the matter of price, we price all products based on the financial investment compared to forecasted revenue based on two decades of experience. For those that think we make money hand over fist making these titles, you could not be more wildly mistaken. If we solely based price on what end users deemed the cost should be rather than based on actual development costs, we would have been out of business long ago. As it is, we are often lucky to break even on these products.
Posted By: Paul Saunders

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/11/12 10:34 PM

Bought it, like it. Flying it xwing aroundthetree
Posted By: Boomer

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/11/12 11:14 PM

Can someone explain to me what is meant by a "scripted take off" in the FC3 F15C? I suspect I know but would like clarification.
Posted By: Smokin_Hole

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/12/12 11:35 AM

Even though I said it in a previous post, I am using it from a position of ignorance similar to the way people use the word "overmodeled". In my case, I expect a takeoff to be somewhat linear. Once sufficient airflow is achieved over the stab, I should be able to raise the nose at a predictable rate based on aft stick displacement. This is not what you get with the F-15. The nose appears to lighten on its own during acceleration (as expected) but if you apply stick displacement the rotation seems unnaturally slow. Once the mains leave the ground however the nose instantly reacts to that extra stick displacement. This all implies that a different set of rules calls the shots during the takeoff roll (where the player's inputs are to a degree ignored) compared to the rules used in flight where the response to player input is more realistic.

This might be due to the need to account for the different axis of rotation between ground and airborn. On the ground the airplane rotates in pitch at the hub of the main landin gear. In the air the rotation is at the CG. The two locations are separated by feet not inches. Maybe the SFM just isn't able to handle the transition between the two in a way that is believable to picky pilots like me.
Posted By: Boomer

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/12/12 12:13 PM

Gotcha, thanx, and yes I too noticed that. Rather unsatisfactory.
Posted By: CaptCanada

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/12/12 01:21 PM

Just thinking out loud here, but , would it be possible for a FC3 Lite version, I mean, one without the SU25 and A10, as DCSW already has a SU25 and most ppl already have the A10 DCSW module. I think most ppl are buying/getting FC3 soley for the F15.

It would have been nice to have an option of getting a lite version with just the F15 with the Mig29&Su27.

Would it be a legal issue mainly, as I don't think it would be a software issue to just get those three into a FC3 Lite module for use to use.

smile
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/12/12 03:55 PM

FC3 has the A-10A and Su-25, not the Su-25T and A-10C. They have different cockpits and fight very differently. Granted the FM's are similar, but ask any WWII simmer if he'd rather not have a P-51D because he has a B or not have a Bf109G because he has an E and you'll get a resounding no.




The Jedi Master
Posted By: CaptCanada

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/12/12 05:34 PM

I realize that so that is why I said that not have the A10A or SU25 in a lite version wouldn't matter since the newer versions of the respecive aircraft are available. All ppl are buying FC3 for is for the F15.
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/13/12 08:13 PM

Maybe SOME people, but I know of many people who like the MiG and Flankers as well. The A-10A has been largely replaced by the A-10C, but sometimes it's fun to use the simpler one.



The Jedi Master
Posted By: ijozic

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/14/12 05:11 PM

Originally Posted By: CaptCanada
I realize that so that is why I said that not have the A10A or SU25 in a lite version wouldn't matter since the newer versions of the respecive aircraft are available. All ppl are buying FC3 for is for the F15.


Yeah, but what would be the point of such a release? To save a few bucks? Since most of the work has went to the F-15 anyway, you might save like $5 tops with such a release so it would have been pretty much pointless.
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/14/12 05:41 PM

Since pretty much no real time was put into those planes, largely being ported over from FC2, it would indeed knock very little off the price. I'm sure the reason FC3 goes for $10 more than FC2 is because of the F-15C!



The Jedi Master
Posted By: SoupyC

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/16/12 10:42 AM

So...which version of LOMAC should I buy if I want this? I was never an ED simmer before Black Shark, so I never got into LOMAC or Flaming Cliffs, and now, I've heard rumours that the digital version won't work (its $30 still anyway...) and I really just want to play FC3. What a dumb requirement...
Posted By: Genbrien

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/16/12 03:35 PM

Originally Posted By: SoupyC
What a dumb requirement...

It's Ubisoft fault

Quote:
So...which version of LOMAC should I buy if I want this?


1st one, wich is LOMAC
Posted By: KRT_Bong

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/17/12 02:05 PM

I already have LOMAC/FC1 I think it's a little ridiculous that if you didn't already own the first you can't install FC3 till you have purchased it at maybe $10 which brings the entire cost to $50 I think you should get at least $10 off if you own it and package the full install together as a download if you don't at the $40 price, I bought A10-C at $20 on Steam, I bought BlackShark 1 but can't use it in DCS world so it's pretty much abandoned. These kinds of things alienate the people you want to buy your product and if I buy it at 40 bucks and it later becomes available cheaper I will really be torked. So bottom line will there ever be a sale on this?
Posted By: Nate

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/17/12 02:26 PM

Originally Posted By: KRT_Bong
I already have LOMAC/FC1 I think it's a little ridiculous that if you didn't already own the first you can't install FC3 .....


It is very ridiculous, as has oft been said, it is being imposed by UBIsoft as they own the IP rights for Lock On. As for the eventual sale, I'd say it will happen in time.

Nate
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/19/12 02:20 PM

Originally Posted By: KRT_Bong
These kinds of things alienate the people you want to buy your product and if I buy it at 40 bucks and it later becomes available cheaper I will really be torked.


Oh, like I bought the Alien anthology on Bluray last year for $80 and this week it's $20? Or I bought Prometheus on 3d BD for $25 and this week it's $15? Or I paid $60 for A-10C on Steam after release so I don't get Nevada free, only to watch the price plummet over and over again later on? Or I pre-ordered Deus Ex 3 at full price to see it drop to under $15 in 3 months? Or I paid $30,000 for my car brand new and now it's worth less than $8500?

You want to save money, wait. Why do you think Black Shark 1 is so cheap now? Because it's obsolete! Of course, BS1+B2 upgrade is still cheaper than BS2 full, so...



The Jedi Master
Posted By: Boomer

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/21/12 04:34 PM

I will buy FC3 but, IMHO it is overpriced @ $39 unless the scripted FM issue is addressed, FC2 was only $29 when I bought it new.
Posted By: Hamblue

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/21/12 08:19 PM

Did you buy FC2 when it came out or months later?
Posted By: scotsmen54

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/22/12 12:34 AM

Wait till after release and 2 months after that and buy it for $9.99. These sim prices drop rapidly. Hard to understand paying $39.99 for the pre-purchase Beta's of anything. Just hold off for 3-4 months and get it for next to nothing.
Posted By: Allen

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/22/12 01:01 AM

While I understand that development costs have to be recovered and a profit made and Ubisoft needs to get a cut, it does feel a bit odd to buy LOMAC, FC1, FC2 -- and now FC3 all at "full brand new game price"

Why? Because FC3 is merely a good "port" of the others (which were also "ports" or simple upgrades of the original LOMAC) over to DCS World. Also, don't like the hassle of installing one and then the other. I'm essentially paying 4 times for the same game.

I'll buy it "eventually" as DCS World is, overall, an extreme quality simulation, to me. However, I wish I had to deal with only a single FC3 download and installation. Would have been easier for the customer to simply give Ubisoft a "cut" of the FC3 selling price -- and forget about the out of date products.

Of course, FC3 is not the only game out there that for "intellectual property" reasons requires ownership of an outdated game to play a new game.

Just seconding or thirding the sentiments of other posters. Or, venting, or ranting. However one wants to read it smile

Meanwhile, once I have FC3, I'll very likely enjoy it. But, I'll wait for the "finished product" -- and hope that developers find better ways to handle this type of situation smile
Posted By: Boomer

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/22/12 08:14 PM

I like and will buy but even so $40 is overpriced for a rehashed port over.
Posted By: Brennus

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/23/12 02:22 PM

Here's the way I see it. It's like a kick starter contribution, only we get something to play with to hold us over 'til the real toys are ready...
Posted By: KRT_Bong

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/23/12 03:46 PM

Actually the analogy that sums it up for me is that it's like buying a car that several years later you get a new coat of paint, have the seats redone and give it a tune-up and it costs as much as it was when you bought it new and still looks basically the same. I appreciate the fact that it involves labor but it's not like it is a whole new car.
Posted By: Silver_Dragon

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/27/12 11:01 PM

Su-27 new model to FC3

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1616375&postcount=3
Quote:
New Su-27 model coming for FC3 / DCSW.

Work in Progress screen shots attached.







http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1616395&postcount=8
Quote:
I want DCS Flanker so much

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esac_mirmidon
This is an ED Su-27 model? Or a colaboration with Hungarojet work?

All ED AFAIK.

Nate
Posted By: NavyNuke99

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/28/12 12:53 AM

Well, I guess this salves the pain of learning that DCS: MiG-29 by Razbam isn't going to happen.
Posted By: Agiel7

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/28/12 07:15 AM

Anyone else having problems with the DCA mission in the new F-15C campaign? It seems to me that if you want to have half a chance of nailing the Su-24s in time you have to say nuts to the Vaziani ATC, power up and taxi and takeoff immediately. And even though the AI MiGs and Flankers don't pose too much of a problem with their SARH R-27s alone or in pairs, the fact that there's six of them when 3 and 4 are still taxiing and the Patriot operators left their TA radars blasting while they went out on a smoke break makes it a losing proposition.
Posted By: Silver_Dragon

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 11/28/12 10:15 AM

Other surprise... checking the russian forum, look date: (01/31/2012).

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1389183&postcount=1733

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR=23=Sparco
Quote:
Хотелось бы узнать ещё про су 27 ?
3д кабина будет делатся а сам вешний облиг су 27 останится такойже или всё таки доведуте до уровня 15е очень хотелось узнать .

Делается и модель Су-27 и кабина.

--------------------
Translate (gogle)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR=23=Sparco
Quote:
I would like to learn more about the Su 27?
3d cabin will Delate vernal bond while he'll stay there 27 takoyzhe or all the same level of finish to 15th wanted to know.

Make and model of the Su-27 and the cabin.


More later, Chizh, moderator of ED forum talk que subsequent model to improve to FC3 has been the Su-33 internal and extermal model. Others can be follow them on the future.

Edit: the forum not support cirilic text
Posted By: Silver_Dragon

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 12/16/12 06:19 PM

bugs list update:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1629669&postcount=744
Quote:
List updated:
2 - Mig29S external fuel tanks not displayed on fuel tape
12 - F15 HUD unreadable
19 - SU-27 cockpit textures include English labels. Not consistent translation. Examples: MSL and GUN on the weapons panel
20 - SU27 entire RWR is in English
23 - Su-25, Su-25T and Mig-29 Caution, Warning and Trim lights are in english instead of russian letters
29 - MIG29 Command Airspeed in LDG mode way below minimum
30 - SU27 Command Airspeed in LDG mode slightly below minimum
39 - SU27 when leading edge flaps are operational audio is heard for normal flaps
42 - SU33 floating on pitching AK deck
43 - SU27/33 weapon panel characters misalignment if the cockpit illumination is on
44 - G940 HOTAS FFB issues/not functioning correctly
46 - F-15C antenna does not track PTD in elevation with TWS
47 - Air to Air missiles do not have INS
48 - ECM uses FC2 behaviour in DCS world
49 - Missiles expend too much speed when turning
50 - Short range missiles do not turn hard enough
51 - Virtual Pilot G-Tolerance is too low
53 - SU25A Airbrake Pylons keep defaulting to the Russian SU-25 1st skin and the bort numbers become an outline in external view when zoomed out
55 - Russian HUD guidance symbology in LNDG mode incorrect - missing glide slope error circle at certain runways
56 - Russian plane pilots have corrupted Pilot head textures at night
57 - Russian planes have corrupted landing light animations
58 - Missile HOJ mode not functional
59 - Mig29 incorrect flaps deployed for player-controlled aircraft
60 - Multiplayer datalink not functional for Russian aircraft
65 - Chimney smoke visible through undercast
67 - Mig 29A flap extension animation incorrect
71 - Multiplayer audio from other players not present (drogue chute)
73 - SU27 gets AoA warning of F15
74 - Water not visible in mirrors of FC3 aircraft
75 - Wingtip vapour effect missing from flyables
76 - SU25A antenna on nose cannot be seen from cockpit
77 - Contrails misaligned/too close to engines of aircraft
80 - Multiplayer clients do not see SU25A/T airbrake deployment
81 - F15 turbine fans not spinning
82 - F15 Gun pipper tracking issue (Impact point below target)
87 - F15 AIR intakes appears to be without any animation
92 - Disappearing player names from the menu in multi-monitor setups
95 - No TTI indicator on Mig29/SU27/SU33
96 - ILS Bugs/Inconsistencies in SU-27
97 - SU27/SU33 EOS not slewable in Elevation
98 - SU27/SU33 lack EOS Narrow Mode Scan
99 - Russian Helmet Designator Circle stays on target after lock
100 - IRST sensor is Gimbal-Fixed in search mode
101 - No audio tone when HMS locks target
102 - HMS Targeting Ring behaviour/illustration incorrect
104 - Mig29 Canopy Jettison lever transparent at night
105 - Russian Pilot kneeboard showing incorrect map of Crimea
106 - SU27 audio for flaps deployment not heard in external view
109 - No heat blur on jet engines when spooling up or at idle
111 - SU25A/T drogue chute cap remains open after first rearming
113 - F-15. Mig29, SU27, SU33 Localizer Deviation Bar exhibits incorrect behaviour in banking maneuvers
115 - Floating Ghost Missiles in Multiplayer
116 - SU25A Inner Flaps defaults to the Russian SU-25 1st skin in external view
117 - Contrails visible through Clouds
118 - Landing reference lights on Admiral Kuznetsov very dim and unclear
122 - SU-33, SU-27 and Mig-29 Gear Lights Halo not visible at night
123 - F-15C Misalignment between under-fuselage weapons-pylons 4,5,7 and 8 and missiles
124 - Touch smoke only draws when the 2nd main wheel make contact with the ground on landing
125 - SU25,25T, Mig29, SU27 and SU33 Cockpit lighting incorrect colour
126 - SU27 Mirror textures corrupt
129 - The lofting dynamics of the AIM-120B/C borked/non-functional
130 - F15 Flood Mode functionality incorrect
131 - Failures system not operational in a MP environment
132 - No airbrake sounds for SU25A/T
133 - Incorrect cockpit lighting for A-10A
134 - MP all aircraft receive all radio chatter from friendly airbases
135 - FC3 flyables missing external cockpit lighting texture
138 - Weapon Quantity selector in Su-25 and Su-25T not working for Rockets
140 - Su-33 falls through Kuznetsov (on landing)
141 - Su-33 hooks aircraft carrier rope at distance about 10 km
142 - The NEZ (No-Escape-Zone) calculations are reversed
144 - SU-25T no weapons-station indications in HUD when Vikhrs selected
145 - Russian Fighters HUD improvement
147 - SU-33 sticks to the runway in cross-wind conditions


http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1629684&postcount=747
Quote:
Ta

Thanx to all who have and who continue to contribute. As it stands, there are 74 bugs left to be actioned out of the list of 147.......We are getting there
Posted By: cichlidfan

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 12/16/12 07:26 PM

Originally Posted By: Agiel7
Anyone else having problems with the DCA mission in the new F-15C campaign? It seems to me that if you want to have half a chance of nailing the Su-24s in time you have to say nuts to the Vaziani ATC, power up and taxi and takeoff immediately.


Ignoring the ATC completely is the best option for DCS, period.
Posted By: EinsteinEP

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 12/16/12 09:23 PM

Originally Posted By: cichlidfan
Ignoring the ATC completely is the best option for DCS, period.

That's been my experience, too, unfortunately.

I have yet to meet an AI ATC I like. I have met enough human ones to make me fear and respect that role, though - so complex and challenging. It can't be easy to "just" code up into AI.
Posted By: Boomer

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 12/17/12 12:26 PM

Originally Posted By: EinsteinEP
[quote=cichlidfan]I have yet to meet an AI ATC I like.


IMHO the best AI ATC continues to be Falcon 4's: it does reasonably well at sequencing multiple jets on the ground and in the patterns.
Posted By: Radejet

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 12/18/12 09:32 AM

That ATC in Falcon 4.0 is mile ahad of others sims....
Posted By: JonnyD

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 12/25/12 04:25 PM

Don't say I'm just a grumpy old git - today I bought FC3. I have no interest in the F-15 and I haven't touched a DCS or ED product for over a month due to the various bugs and issues. I just want to see World turn out well - preferably before the Lancer is released! If paying them another 25 quid helps bring that about, then so be it.

See - I'm a generous grumpy old git! neaner

I did notice how, with the release of the latest patch, they called it a 'free upgrade' rather than a fix of all the broken stuff! Surprised they didn't charge for that, as it happens (honestly).
Posted By: Silver_Dragon

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 12/25/12 06:40 PM

Check the future DCS:W FC3 1.2.3 Patch here (incoming days)
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3706125/Re_DCS_World_v1_2_3#Post3706125

Great quantity of bugs fixed, improve features and new Su-27 exterior (with new 6DOF cockpit Su-27 cockpit and Mig-29S Multitarget AA-12 launch capability on the future on future patch)
Posted By: Silver_Dragon

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 12/25/12 08:41 PM

By Wags

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1636088&postcount=62
Quote:

Although we can now talk about the new Su-27 cockpit and new MiG-29S radar mode, there are some other "big" items coming for FC3 too, but they are still in early stages and a bit early to announce them yet. All in all, we are striving to put a lot of new content into FC3.


http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1636138&postcount=70
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jctrnacty
I thought i will skip fc3 but after hearing these news i will buy it right now.

Its nice to see that ED listen to their loyal fans. Good job ED !!!


Thanks and merry christmas
We honestly do listen, but we cannot meet all expectations. We could have kept the feature set frozen for FC3, but we read the feedback, we discussed it internally, and saw where the product was lacking from the view of our core customers (you guys). We decided to address this (as much as we could), but the drawback though is that it will stretch out development at least a couple of months. In order to cover this increase in the product development budget, we had to adjust the cost a bit for the final version. However, we will continue to honor the original price of the pre-purchase of course.
Posted By: scission

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 12/26/12 03:49 PM

I can't find info on what campaigns for which aircraft are included here. Can someone let me know please?

That Su-27 looks amazing.

EDIT: Nevermind. Looks like there is only ONE campaign for the F-15. That's it. According to the website.

Too bad, I really want to give them my money for a complete product. (Never going to happen)
Posted By: Mace71

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 12/26/12 03:57 PM

There's a SU-27 campaign coming in the next patch.
Posted By: EtherealN

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 12/28/12 04:01 PM

Originally Posted By: scission

EDIT: Nevermind. Looks like there is only ONE campaign for the F-15. That's it. According to the website.

Too bad, I really want to give them my money for a complete product. (Never going to happen)


No, there is one new campaign for the F-15C.

The product is in beta and all features are not yet in. Further details on these released at the appropriate times.

Current open beta (v1.2.2) includes four campaigns:
A-10A - The Valley
F-15C - Bear Trap
MiG-29S - Over the Hump
Su-25 - Cold War Warrior
Posted By: Destructis

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 12/28/12 08:12 PM

FC3 sounds like it is right up my alley. I am not good enough at flight sims to fly the A-10C.

I totally get that people are complaining about the price. I don't want to spend any more money than I have to. I also think that *some* people complain about the lack of quality or variety of flight sims. I am going to pay for FC3 this weekend. I look at it as supporting a genre of games that I am interested in.
Posted By: ADHS

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 12/29/12 11:41 AM

Originally Posted By: EtherealN
The product is in beta and all features are not yet in. Further details on these released at the appropriate times.

Still selling betas around ? LOL
Posted By: Longbow fanatic

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 01/22/13 07:15 PM

I love it... graphics are so far ahead of anything else out there, the clouds, the sunsets, the contrails, the 6DOF pits ( soon to be on SU27, SU25 and A-10A as well) and the avionics ain't half bad, still as good as BMS falcon... I don't know what there is to hate about it... maybe cause I never played FC2, but to me this sim oozes quality, and when they release the Hornet, I'll be doing carrier traps all day! And yes I started with Blackshark , then A-10C until I was burnt out on it...
Posted By: UnderTheRadar

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 01/27/13 11:38 AM

Originally Posted By: EtherealN


Current open beta (v1.2.2) includes four campaigns:
A-10A - The Valley
F-15C - Bear Trap
MiG-29S - Over the Hump
Su-25 - Cold War Warrior



Why release the campaign before the training and single missions?
Posted By: Nate

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 01/27/13 12:50 PM

Because they aren't finished?

Nate
Posted By: Smokin_Hole

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 01/27/13 12:55 PM

Originally Posted By: Longbow fanatic
...and the avionics...still as good as BMS falcon...


Really? Have you played BMS? BMS is very close to WH in terms of avionics and systems fidelity. Flamming Cliffs makes no claim to be anywhere close to that standard.
Posted By: UnderTheRadar

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 01/27/13 04:17 PM

Originally Posted By: Nate
Because they aren't finished?

Nate


Oh, ok. I thought releasing the campaign before you knew how to fly the plane didn't make any sense but, now I see that it still does not. Thank you smile
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 01/28/13 06:07 PM

The single missions I wouldn't think would be much of an issue compared to a campagin, but I know those training ones require lots of work.



The Jedi Master
Posted By: UnderTheRadar

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 01/28/13 10:32 PM

I would say the logical thing would be training first. Then an instant action mode or series of single missions. Then the campaign.
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 01/29/13 03:39 PM

Yes, except training is being made all-new AFAIK while the campaigns are ports of FC2's.
In other words, you want them to NOT release things that are already done until the not-done stuff is finished just because you'd use it first?




The Jedi Master
Posted By: Boomer

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 01/30/13 04:07 PM

Originally Posted By: Longbow fanatic
and the avionics ain't half bad, still as good as BMS falcon..


Sorry my friend but you are WAY OFF THE MARK on that.

FC3 is "medium" fidelity, even says so int he FC3 manual.

FBMS is hardcore all the way, much more in depth for avionics and weaponizing fidelity.

Another example of a hardcore sim is the VRS TP Bug.
Posted By: GrayGhost

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 01/30/13 04:34 PM

*snicker*

Originally Posted By: Helo_Head
Another example of a hardcore sim is the VRS TP Bug.
Posted By: JonnyD

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 01/30/13 06:47 PM

Originally Posted By: GrayGhost
*snicker*


+1
Posted By: Boomer

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 01/30/13 07:19 PM

Really?

You 2 do not consider the VRS TP Bug hardcore?

http://forums.vrsimulations.com/support/index.php/TacPack_Documentation

Hopefully neither of you think FC3 to be so.

Aside from that, what do yo base your opinion on? Do tell.
Posted By: GrayGhost

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 01/30/13 07:35 PM

The fact that you can't get the real aircraft's maintenance/ops manuals needed to make a hardcore simulation of the Superbug.
Posted By: Boomer

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 01/30/13 09:39 PM

Originally Posted By: GrayGhost
The fact that you can't get the real aircraft's maintenance/ops manuals needed to make a hardcore simulation of the Superbug.


Publicly available and being used by VRS, I have them as well.
Posted By: JonnyD

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 01/30/13 09:52 PM

If you say so.

Edit - okay, that was a little short - so I'll add that I know a certain person on another forum who works with these aircraft (or worked) and came up with a list of the stuff that was either missing or simply wrong on the VRS Superbug.

Some of it was really simple stuff, too, like even the shape of the thing.

PS - surely you aren't talking about THESE?
Posted By: Boomer

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 01/30/13 11:20 PM

Yeah those are the ones I was referring to, not enough perhaps as to what you think counts as hardcore?

I am willing to be proven wrong, not a fan boy.

But elaborate please on what else VRS has wrong, I would like to know.
Posted By: JonnyD

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 01/31/13 09:33 AM

Well I'm no expert on this particular aircraft and I'm not prepared to argue points that someone else who is has made - in fact I have no interest in it at all. But to be honest I wouldn't call any FSX aircraft hard core as FSX is not a hard core simulator - wasn't built to be.

Unless by hard core you simply mean procedural?

I have about 850 add-on aircraft for FSX and I wouldn't call any of them hard core - but then I suppose it depends on the 'eye of the beholder' and people see things differently. I didn't mean any offense to you - far from it, but I don't see FSX or any of its add-ons (and I have spent more hours on that sim - especially on the team of one of its most popular add-ons - than on all my sims put togther since 1982) as hard core.


I've been really gobsmacked by some of the 'sims' termed "hard core" around the net.

Some of the the performance related behaviour described in those guides I linked to are far in excess of what FSX can achieve.
Posted By: Boomer

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 01/31/13 12:21 PM

FSX is not "hardcore" no. It is mainly useful as a platform for add-ons.

Having said that, I would challenge anyone to show me a more detailed ("hardcore") sim than say the PMDG 737ngx or the upcoming PMDG 777.

Or, for that matter, a more complex version of the SHornet than the VRS version at present.
Posted By: Mace71

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 01/31/13 12:56 PM

I would call VRS SB hardcore in as much as it is as close to a working representation of the Superbug as were going to get, even if some of it is conjecture. The various systems are as deep as Falcon BMS or DCS A-10C even though it uses FSX as its platform. And I really think there arent enough sims around for us to start taking 'sides' on them and slagging off and laughing at perfectly good simulations.
Posted By: GrayGhost

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 01/31/13 01:19 PM

Originally Posted By: MaceUK33
The various systems are as deep as Falcon BMS or DCS A-10C


How are you going to model them 'in depth' if you don't have the manuals for these systems?

Quote:
And I really think there arent enough sims around for us to start taking 'sides' on them and slagging off and laughing at perfectly good simulations.


It's more like laughing at what people think is hard core, or 'in depth'.
Posted By: GrayGhost

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 01/31/13 01:21 PM

You won't find one, because the manuals for that are not available. An 18C, on the other hand ... (And no, the NATOPS is not good enough. ).

Originally Posted By: Helo_Head
Or, for that matter, a more complex version cfg the SHornet than the VRS version at present.
Posted By: Boomer

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 01/31/13 02:21 PM

Originally Posted By: GrayGhost
It's more like laughing at what people think is hard core, or 'in depth'.


Then what sim fits your definition of "in depth"?

I have flown them all since circa 1988. ;-)
Posted By: GrayGhost

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 01/31/13 02:28 PM

If we're talking about the aircraft itself?

Programmed to simulate the aircraft's flight characteristics and avionics systems accurately, from the system's operating manuals. There are varying degrees to which this may be achieved .. it isn't possible for all aircraft smile
Posted By: JonnyD

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 01/31/13 04:04 PM

Yeah, it is a difficult subject matter as everyone has their own opinion of what hard core means - it's very subjective, I guess.

I've been racking my brain cell, trying to think of one I know that I would call hard core, but I can't.

Yes, a lot of sims or add-ons have 'in-depth' procedures and so on, but that's all it is - sitting at a PC going through procedures.

In that respect, one could say that Jet Pilot, released on the Amiga in about 1996 (just had to get mine out to look that up! biggrin ) was hard core.

It reminds me very much of when GTR the racing game came out. It was a real swine to control and those that were able to suddenly thought they had the most realistic, hard core racing sim there was. When people complained it was difficult they were told by this crowd that it was how it was in real life, and they should go back to their 'arcade' games.

Yet those of us who have driven real high-performance race cars know that all that is a load of rubbish. the physics were just awful.
When GTRevo was released, these know-it-all types started maoning. Too many people could drive them fast - it must be dumbed-down and too arcade.
Then Simbin said they were really pleased that with GTRevo they had finally managed to get the physics so much closer to how it is in real life!

Yet, if you look around the GTR fan bases you'll still find people swearing it's the most realistic ever.
Posted By: Boomer

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 01/31/13 05:22 PM

Well then for now my list of preferred "hardcore" combat sims that I fly run:

FBMS
VRS TP SB
DCS A10C
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 01/31/13 08:11 PM

My problem is all too often a so-called "hardcore" sim will focus on one aspect of a simulation and neglect the others. There's a lot more to a sim than having switchology procedures painstakingly reproduced with zero automation.

For instance, modeling an aircraft's flying and avionics to a T and then having wacky AI, ridiculous over-the-top Hollywood-style combat scenarios with mission objectives that would garner you a MOH every sortie in real life (better kill 10 planes and 10 tanks yourself!), and in-flight comms that resemble an Abbot and Costello routine. That was Falcon 4 on release. It took years of modding the source code to fix it up.

Then there was Back to Baghdad, and that had a shorter shelf life than bottled milk.

So when people say "X is wonderful" when it so clearly fails at doing anything other than simulating ONE aspect of a true hardcore combat simulator, I laugh.



The Jedi Master
Posted By: Boomer

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 01/31/13 11:55 PM

Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
Then there was Back to Baghdad


LOL...you and I are aging ourselves: bought that garbage on release circa 1995 (?) @ $100 or some rip off price, HIDEOUS "sim"...crappy manual, buggy, single digit FPS...

http://www.gamespot.com/back-to-baghdad/reviews/back-to-baghdad-review-2538121/

http://www.migman.com/sw/Back-to-Baghdad/mag_advert.php
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) - 02/01/13 06:02 PM

Ah, but as I was a poor college student at the time, I couldn't afford it, so I waited...and was VERY glad I did. wink




The Jedi Master
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