MOD: The "Other" Channel Map

Seeing as the rules on Mods have been relaxed

There is another Channel Map being worked on that is simply stunning.
The guys of the 352nd are doing some excellent work on a 1:1 scale Channel Map, the attention to detail is astonishing.

For Example:

Warmwell


Horsham


Point Du Hoc


Westhampnett


Biggin Hill


Dover


All still Work in Progress but you can see the amount of love being poured into this map

There is more on http://352ndfg.com/smf/index.php?board=33.0

This is one Map that I am very excited about, I can't wait to get hold of it.

Holy Cow

Cheers

Nico

Lovely work, thanks for the heads-up Brigs

1:1 scale

Nice!

Ming

Simply stunning! Thanks for sharing that info. 1:1 goodness, bring it on! I'm curious how much of each coast will actually be able to be placed on a single map with it being 1:1. Have to check out the link for more info.

Edited to say I found a rough pic or the area. In case others are wondering:

http://352ndfg.com/smf/index.php?topic=1326.60

This link show a pic in the thread of their forums. Now that's a good sized map!

My god, this is stunning...When is the release?

Thank you for the kind words, Gentlemen. This project has proved a much larger job than we originally envisioned, but it is coming along well. We can *almost* see light at the end of the tunnel.

There is a very nice article about the map over at Battle of Britain - Game Hub that you might enjoy reading.

We have received help from so many people in this world-wide simulation community that words cannot begin to express how rewarding the experience has been. The map will be infinitely better because of the community assistance.

Blue Skies!!

Persecutor

Oh my gawd, that is a beautiful looking map!!!
Will it be playable in standard IL2?
I haven't matured to modded stuff.. cause I'm still learning the nuts and bolts of IL2 and am not ready to suck in more at the moment..

Could someone please copy and then post the article here. That site is blocked here at work. Thanks.

Here you go:

Work is progressing apace on this exciting new map...see the gorgeous new screenshots below!



(Please go to the site when home to see the pics- they are worth it!!!)



Follow progress HERE

http://352ndfg.com/smf/index.php?board=33.0
Creating a time machine

An interview with 352nd Fighter Group's 352ndDeacon, 352ndBooze, and 352ndPersecutor

The Blue Nosed Bastards of Bodney have embarked on a project to recreate the airfields and atmosphere of the European Theatre of Operation for IL2, with never before seen accuracy, in a new Cross Channel Map.

If you want an idea of their level of ambition, just look at these two screenshots. First, a historical shot of Westhampnett RAF airfield in 1940.

And here, a work-in-progress shot of the same airfield as created by the team from the 352nd.


Read on for more details of this exciting project.

• The historical accuracy of airfield and landmark layouts seems to be a major feature. What sources did you use for these, and how true do you believe them to be?
An early goal of our map development was to create airfields that are as historically accurate as we can make them, given the limitation of available information, the game engine itself, and our knowledge of map making (which is an art-in-development). We are sensitive to the need to keep the map detail low enough so that the result is playable on the largest number of systems while at the same time presenting a virtual world that gives a sense of “being there”.

For example, our home field of Bodney, England is painstakingly recreated from blueprints, drawings, and available photographs and is as accurate a virtual representation as we can make it. We have given the same attention to detail to each of the airfields we have included in the map. We are keenly aware that squadrons other than the 352nd VFG feel the same way about their home fields as we do and we have worked with many of them to ensure that their fields are as accurate as is Bodney.

Our desire is that the airfields look “real” both from the air and the ground, so that when, sitting in the cockpit on the tarmac, taxiing around the airfield, or flying a mission over or from the field, looking around takes the pilot “back in time”.

We are grateful to the many members of the community that have helped us in gathering accurate period information about geographical locations, airfield sites, design, and appearance. All of the airfields and harbors have been created from aerial photos donated by our map team members or from IL2 community members, most the result of untold hours of research. Geographical sites including the Dover and Pont du Hoc cliffs have been created with the help of many community members, some of whom live in or near the area and have sent us invaluable photographic and verbal descriptions. Without their help the result would not be nearly as visually rich, or accurate, as it is.

One of the truly remarkable things that has happened during our project is the eager assistance that community members readily offer. Such a willingness to help and share so openly is awesome to behold.

• The screenshots are very object rich. Do you intend to deliver the map with this level of object density, and if so, what PC specs will the map be optimized for?
The screen shots that have been posted on the 352nd Virtual Fighter Group forum accurately depict the Cross-Channel Map as it is evolving, although they also include human figures, static aircraft (and occasionally those in flight over the field) and static vehicles, all of which have been added for “color” to help flesh out the feeling of the actual map as it may look during a mission. The map itself, in its raw form, will present the player with an empty airfield complete with surrounding buildings and other structures. It is up to the mission designer to add the static components they feel appropriate for their mission.

Our design approach is to develop a map which gives the mission creator an accurate depiction of the ETO of the period to which he or she can add such detail as they believe is necessary to “flesh out” the mission being created. We hope, by approaching map development in this way, to keep object density at an acceptable level realizing that it all involves compromise; the more detail fixed in the map itself, the greater the requirement for system strength. This map may very well be the largest in the game; we realize we are in “virgin territory” here and are treading carefully.

We test the map repeatedly on our squadron's member systems, which vary from extremely powerful systems to more average, and so far no one has experienced unplayability. We will make no claim or provide no assurance that the map will be all things to all people, or playable on all systems, but from our testing it is apparent that it will run very well on the majority of current systems.

• What coastlines/areas will the map represent?
Our goal was to develop a map that included our Squadron's home field of Bodney, a sufficient portion of north-western Europe to permit cross-Channel flights, and enough of the south-west England, Normandy, and the low countries to make a realistic Battle of Britain arena possible. To this end we ended up with a map area depicted in the image that can be found at Base Map screenshot

A comparison graphic showing the relative sizes of the Cross-Channel map, the Normandy may from the game itself, and CanonUK's Battle of Britain map can be found at How does the Cross Channel Map Compare with Others in Scope??.

• Does the map require soundmod? Which flavours of IL2 will it work with?
To enjoy our map a player must use a sound-mod version of 4.09m. Because the map uses textures from the maps included in 4.09m it will not run on 4.08m. In addition to giving IL2 users the chance to use custom maps like this one, the sound mod adds so much more to the game, including such things as the 6DoF mod; the game is infinitely more enjoyable with the addition of the mods and our hope is that this map will add to that enjoyment.

• Will it come with installer or require some user expertise with installing mods and aircraft?
We recognize that one of the problems faced by the average user of IL2 by the wonderful mods is the complexity of adding so many different mods, in seemingly complicated and conflicting ways. Fortunately the folks at AAA have settled on a folder structure that helps in standardizing the process.

We have developed an installer that will make the addition of the map as easy as humanly possible; all the user need do is point the installer to his or her game folder. The installer will do the rest, the map and missions will be added, and the player will be able to start the game, load a mission, and visit the cross-channel area of the ETO. The installer will require the game into which it is installed contains an AAA sound mod version.

By the way, we always recommend that a player make a copy of their game and apply all mods, including our map, to that copy. In the unfortunate event of an installation problem the player will then always be able to fall back on a working copy of the game.

• Is it intended for online or offline play, or both?
The map is intended for realistic flights over accurate terrain to areas and airfields that appear as they did circa 1940-45, given the limitations of the IL2 simulator engine and our ability to create maps for it. Players who fly online should enjoy the ability to recreate a WWII era mission as it was flown, including the times of comparative routine boredom and the intense but brief periods of terror, and perhaps even fleeing to a safe haven. Up until now IL2 hasn't had, generally speaking, maps large enough to permit that.

Off-line players will have the same ability. Our hope is that both categories of player will find the map enjoyable.

For the player who want to immediately join a battle this map may not be the most appropriate tool, but our fervent hope is that this map provides an ideal opportunity for the player who is seeking the sheer enjoyment of flying back through time into a world 65 years in the past.

• Are you or others already creating missions or campaigns for it?
Missions and campaigns are being prepared that will represent actual day-to-day missions flown by both sides in the Battle of Britain. A great deal of research and mission design effort is going into making sure the results are historically accurate. Our plan is to release the missions and campaigns simultaneously with the release of the map.

The Cross-Channel map is intentionally large enough to include some of the operational area of the 352nd Fighter Group during 1944 and 45. We are developing missions that recreate the actual experiences of the Group based on input from veteran 352nd Fighter Group members and historical records.

Of course, many more Groups and Squadrons besides the 352nd flew in the ETO, and we are thrilled to be able to also offer them the possibility of recreating the arena and atmosphere in which their parent squadrons and groups operated.

• There are (luckily for Battle of Britain fans) a number of great IL2 based Battle of Britain options for players now. In traditional IL2 world there are no fewer than six popular campaigns based on existing maps. In the soundmod world Flyzo has created a workable mod of the Normandy map, and Canonuk is creating a 1:2 map of SE England. What will your project offer that is different from these?
We applaud all the map makers who have successfully adapted older maps or created new ones. Doing so is definitely a challenge and involves a steep learning curve. Our map breaks new ground; it is a 1:1 scale, large ETO map with what we believe is an extraordinary attention to detail. We haven't compared the actual map area to the Slot map, but the two must be similar in total size and detail.

Our team has spent hours in airfield design and construction with an eye to smooth runways and a minimum of overlapping runway plates or gaps between plates.

The size of the Cross-Channel map lends itself, as does the Slot map, to players who enjoy “real time” mission flying; mission planning, group take-off, forming up, flying to target, attacking (or defending), and returning to base safely, all in real time. If it took, in 1944, an hour to fly from airfield to coast (or IP, or rendezvous), it will take the same hour when flying this map. These are truly strategic maps; in that sense the Cross-Channel map brings to IL2 the ETO as many players have clamored for years; a large and accurate venue. Those who came to IL2 from the CFS series will find themselves right at home. Many will say “finally ….. “

• Who are the collaborators?
The Cross-Channel Map's size and area are the result of compromise. Clockwatcher and 352ndBooze both separately started developing, at about the same time, an England-to-France Channel map covering roughly the same areas. Clockwatcher wanted to create the Battle of Britain and 352ndBooze wanted to create a 1943 based map that had the 352nd Fighter Group's home base at Bodney, England. The two compromised and the result was one map that addressed both objectives. The Cross-Channel map is the first installment - the plan is to follow this map with a larger map that includes the majority of the ETO from England east to Berlin and beyond which we are now calling our “8th Air Force” map.



The team putting the map together includes Clockwatcher, all of the members of the 352nd Virtual Fighter Group lead by team leader 352nd Booze, and Ramjagger, who is doing a magnificent job recreating the low country airfields and surroundings. The team enjoys the invaluable assistance of many, many members of the IL2 community.

• What are your thoughts on BoB Storm of War? If you were creating the perfect Battle of Britain sim, what would it look like?
We look forward to the release of Battle of Britain – Storm of War; it holds all the promise of being as large a step forward in combat flight simulation development as IL2 was when first released. However, SoW will present the player with the Battle of Britain arena and time frame which, as much enjoyment as it promises, lacks the aircraft, periods, and battle areas that attract so many players to IL2 and who enjoy the ETO that is represented by our Cross-Channel map and its 8th Air Force big brother.

If SoW evolves as did IL2 it will be two or three more years before we see P-38s, P-47s, P-51s, later Spitfires, Tempests, B-17s, B-24s, British heavy bombers, and the corresponding Axis aircraft that filled the ETO skies of 43-45. The wait may well be worth it, but in the meantime our hope is that our Cross-Channel map offers an immediate solution, using the aging but still viable IL2 platform, to the desire to fly there now.

• It is always dangerous to ask about release dates, so we won't, but how far along do you think the project is...
The map is nearly three-quarters finished.

I've been trying to see these shots for weeks but for some reason the pictures won't load from that site. Maybe someone could post a few here.

Here you are Chivas, look at Horsham wow

Ming
















The Blue Nosed Bastards of Bodney have embarked on a project to recreate the airfields and atmosphere of the European Theatre of Operation for IL2, with never before seen accuracy, in a new Cross Channel Map.

If you want an idea of their level of ambition, just look at these two screenshots. First, a historical shot of Westhampnett RAF airfield in 1940.


And here, a work-in-progress shot of the same airfield as created by the team from the 352nd.

this looks beautiful - great work guys.

Yep, I'm waiting patiently for this beauty.

CS.

Chivas,

From which site will the pictures not load?

... is this the dawn of the golden age of IL-2 we are witnessing? Oleg & Co have their work cut out for them to really nail it down for BOB

Have my doubts about that...but sure as hell hope they do nail it.

This just keeps getting better and better. The airfields are terrific. I'm thrilled that this sim is being modded by so many talented people. It really needed this shot in the arm, in my opinion.

stuff they should have been doing themselves for the 250+ we paid for this whole game. I have to say im one of the few who didnt even try the sound mod or any of them. But looks like the community is doing a fantastic job of improving the game which it desperately needed to keep interest in.

Hi Persecutor

http://352ndfg.com/smf/index.php?topic=1485.0 that has a few airbase

None of the pics in any of the posts would load until this evening and I've been trying for a couple of weeks.

Anyway all looks wonderfull now. Thanks for all your hard work.

~Salute~
Chivas

Thanks for posting Mr Ming.

I ask again.. Will these maps be playable in vanilla IL2/1946 4.08/4.09?

~drool~

No. You will need the AAA Sound mod pack and version 4.09m in order to fly on this map. The reason for 4.09m is that the map uses some of the same textures used by the Slovokia map (at least now it does, that may change later) and those textures are not available in earlier maps. The Sound Mod is necessary for a variety of reasons (some of which I don't understand), but not the least of which is that the map contains textures and objects new to the game and available only in the Sound Mod.

Strictly from a builder/designer's point of view, making the map has been a huge learning experience, and because it is so large a project and taking so long, the knowledge of how to do it and the methods and tools available to us evolve. Many of the early features of the map have been replaced by much nicer components that we didn't know about, or didn't exist, when we started. When one becomes involved in something like this, one's appreciation for the untold hours of work that the original IL2 designers put into the official game becomes much greater.

Thanks for a very well put explanation Persecutor.. I look forward to getting involved in flying that map not so far into the future!

When one becomes involved in something like this, one's appreciation for the untold hours of work that the original IL2 designers put into the official game becomes much greater

Well said mate and thanks for your hard work!

Ming

Amazing to see what a dedicated and talented team can do with the maps!! The attention to detail is overwhelming. It's good to see that you guys recognize the work that has gone into the original maps and tools for it makes your work possible to begin with, but you are lifting the scenery up to a whole new level. Admiration and gratitude towards all the members of the teams!

More at the 352nd Virtual Fighter Group Forum.

Shot 5 out of the above 6 looks majestic. Those .tree.tga's really do work don't they

Plus the usual high standard on the base layout

Thanks Persecutor

Yup, looks pretty darn good to me!!

JESUS #%&*$# CHRIST !

Cheers

Nico

Yeauuuwww!!! There goes an other fuse! Thanks a lot guys; once a day is enough you know. Indeed that 5th picture looks amazing!

Performace data from last beta:

Test System: PentiumD 3.20GHz HT, 2GB, ATI X850XTPE OpenGL 4x 4x 1600-1200

Map: Scale 1:1
236,500 square kilometers
Basic DF map w/ 30+ bases marked as home bases + historic BoB planeset

Time to load: 9.45sec

Is there a shot of the channel?

Hi X MAN there are several on our 352ndVFG forums but here is a quick shot from Le Havre.

Please make this available in Quick Mission. Will that be possible?

All you will need is the appropriate set of quick missions and QMB+, you will be able to play it in Quick Mission.

Excellant looking map....can't wait...but will my system able to handle it....
Intel 2 Core E8400, Nivida 8800GTS, XP, 4 gig memory ...

Also,,where do I check to see if the 4.09m patch is in...I patched this game so long ago and added the Enjoyr patches as well...

Will this new map (when released) work with the Enjoyr patches as well?

Bloody marvelous lads, and greatly appreciated!!

Ogs.

Jack your system is more than enough to run this map. Will explain more in our release document but you are good to go.

Ogs, thanks we are having a blast building it and are amazed at the things we have had the opportunity to learn along the way.

Thanks again,
Booze

Hiya Booze,

looking great fella

I'm looking forward to flying around that M8

Cheers, Neil

Well this is a big nice map!!!! I am looking to play with it.
I would like to add it to my list of QMB maps and created some templated missions for it.

If you guys are not working with AAA where i am suppoused to get your map.

It's a mystery wrapped in a pizza probably

Ming

No links allowed remember... (MI-5 mode on..)

No doubt there will be a download available. AAA are not the only place for MODs. There are other "independents" working on stuff out there and the Russians have there own site for such stuff.

Thanks everyone,

Neil Great to see you around, and looking forward to you flying it. We are getting oh so close.

Red_Bear just google 352ndVFG and you will find more info. We are very close to finishing the first map which is the 1940 scenario. We also have a late war scenario and 2 other England to Berlin Bomber escort maps in the hopper. We already have several download sites available that we will post to everyone once the map is ready for distribution.

And Brigstock is correct we are finding more and more people everyday working independantly on MODS and this will no doubt become more organized once new MOD sites are completed.

Best regards,
Booze

Such a tasty pizza, too!

Pizza reference meant he or she sounded as if he wasn't trying

Ming

Sorry the rules i9 forgat... I am almos new with this of the mods iremember in the old days that this was a taboo. The times change.... for me there is a guy doing some p47 and he is doing the M and N and i am waiting for that.

Any way thanks for the tip.

Pleas check PM I send you a message and it seems to be working

Correct me if I'm wrong about this, but are'nt these maps going to be available from AAA through a link?

Will this map be installable following a similar procedure to AAA maps's or will it work differently ?

Cheers

Nico

Yes Murph but some online squadrons are making maps for specific campaigns, like the Il-2 War at Hyperlobby which has a mod pack for Hellas: so that everyone flying that campaign can get Crete-compatible fairly simply

Ming

These guys aren't associated with the AAA site any more (think I read that on their forum that is linked to in the first post) so I wouldn't assume that it will be there nor that it will follow their conventions/rules of doing mods. I'd wait for official info on this one from the map makers themselves before making any assumptions either way.

Hi guys, this map will be available through members and multiple squadrons of the IL2 Modding community and will work with your current setup. There will be a single installer that does it all.

I can't way sh***

Do i need to add soe texture to get those trees or i will come with the map?

Wow! Thanks 352ndBooze!

What kind of framerates are you getting with all of these ground textures? Just curious what kind of system do you guys think will be needed to run the game smoothly.

The 352nd Virtual Fighter Group is not associated with the AAA site. The map, when complete, will be compatible with the AAA mod structure and will come with its own one-step installer. We will make it available from as many sites as wish to host it, including our own.

By the way, we are getting closer to completion. We've still got a lot of bases to finish and a few details to correct, but we're getting there. Our hope is to host or hold a "release party" for the community when the map finally leaves our hands and gets into yours.



Tom, we haven't done a frame rate test on the map but I can tell you that our squad members test this map frequently and have a wide variety of systems, some very strong, others older, and none have complained of unplayability. We intentionally leave the airfields comparatively sparse; there is a lot of detail but not so much that frame rates are negatively impacted. The real detail will be up to the mission builders to create.

These new textures are still experimental. So far we've not seen a worrisome fps hit (knock on wood).

Our goal is to make the map playable on the majority of existing systems, knowing that we will never please everyone.

Thanks for the official word on this Persecutor! Looking forward to your release party.

Can someone tell me what in the world a AAA sound mod pack is, and what a sound mod 4.09 patch is? I gotta tell you, when you guys start throwing around term like that, I don't have a clue. Since I have just figured out a little how to use FMB (not very well, I'm afraid) I'm interested in new maps. They sure do look good.

Thanks for any help.

Bob...! Bob - Great to see you!

When did you get back from your trip to Mars...?


....


Brief answers.

Game has been hacked.
Modifications are known as Mods
AAA is All Aircraft Arcade, one of the Mod sites.
Sound Mod was the original mod.

Can I ask a really dumb question?

Has anyone ever thout of organizing all of this together with everyone and trying to put it up as a kind of patch and then quiting

I believe that's AAA's aim, with the unified installer being a pre-alpha version of what they intend to do.

Quiting ? Are you serious ? It's like you've been locked in the same small room for seven years with a chair and a desk, and finally you manage to open that door and visit the 80 rooms mansion behind it. Would you try to fursnish the little room with as many stuff from the mansion as you can, or settle to live in the mansion ?

Cheers

Nico

Hi Bob, you may want to go over to the AAA site and have a look around when you have a moment. All the terms you are hearing thrown around are in reference to the MODs and Mods structure that makes all the new stuff work together. All the downloads you will need to get started are available there. Hackl I beleive they have recently come out with an installer. The 352nd developed our own Unified Installer a few months back and have been using it successfully for a while now and it definitely makes life easier, especially for those who do not have the time to become intimate with the Modding file structure. It combines the MODS into one neat and tidy download. However as new things are developed and or made better the UI will constantly need to be updated, I know ours gets updated every month or so depending upon new developments.

Best regards,

It's advisable Bob to copy your complete Il-2/1946 install somewhere to keep a backup copy in case when installing mods you end up in a mess as I did

An external USB drive is very handy for jobs like this

Ming

Canon, you asked me:

When did you get back from your trip to Mars...?

Sorry for asking the questions. If I knew the answers, I would not have asked. For example, in your response, "Game has been hacked" means nothing to me. I have never heard of AAA, and I have never heard of "sound mod" or "the original mod".

I would like to know how much younger you are than I. There is probably a direct correlation between our age difference and our knowledge of such things as above. I have been through two complete careers, retired, and don't have time nor desire to devote a great deal of my life (or what is left of it) to the above. I enjoy playing the game, like to keep up with changes as best I can, and have found that this forum is a great place to ask how. These folks have always been very helpful, and I have been grateful for the assistance.

Bob - it's a bloody joke. Don't take it so seriously.

I believe that's AAA's aim, with the unified installer being a pre-alpha version of what they intend to do.

Quiting ? Are you serious ? It's like you've been locked in the same small room for seven years with a chair and a desk, and finally you manage to open that door and visit the 80 rooms mansion behind it. Would you try to fursnish the little room with as many stuff from the mansion as you can, or settle to live in the mansion ?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I thought that would be the answer I would get hehehe

Sorry, I guess I just didn't take it that way. I always feel stupid enough when I ask my questions, and have felt for some time that I would get a response such as yours, but in seriousness.

Thanks.

It's all good Bob, I'm certain CanonUK really didn't mean to offend. Most people that aren't familiar with computers can feel a little intimidated when dealing with technical questions. You should be commended for keeping up with the technology. Have fun!

Cheers

We're British we tend to tease our friends Bob so we can see what they're made of when they get angry and therefore emotional, and perhaps reveal more of their true nature than they'd like to. If they react badly we know they won't be any use to the team in a tight spot. It's an angle

Ming

I lost a tooth to that kind of British BS... careful how far you push it

Cheers

Nico

OT!
I learned the following after a year living in Scotland.. regarding all brittish citizens, not just the Scotts..
* Don't trust them
* Don't play football with them
* Don't buy them any beers at the local pub
* Never take them seriously
* All male Brits are notorious wankers
* A Brit will never tell anything to you in a straight and simple way, they think that sounding like Shakespear wrote it they are "sofisticated"
* They all drive on the wrong side of the road so don't borrow them your car when they are paying you a visit in your home country (i.e. the civilised world)!

Mind you, we do actually know the difference between lend and borrow.

I would have a word with your English teacher.

Brits do lend ?

I thought they'd only lend-lease

Well, as english is not my main language and I am a lazy #%&*$# I doubt it will lead to much..

Come on guys, remember this.

What you think is funny, or cute, or brilliant as you write it on your computer doesn't always translate into the same brilliance in the mind of a reader.

My drill instructor once said there is no such thing as a stupid question. Well, right after saying that some moron asked a really stupid question and had the job of sitting back first (with no chair) up against a tree for three hours. Sometimes a smart a$$ response at the wrong time gets you a return that you don't like.

Just remember, before you post ask yourself, 'How is this person going to take this?' If you think they may take it the wrong way you probably should change your response.

Mmm.. I've been giving lectures today on the British Army's current infantry weapons systems to several foreign military advisors, from Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the US and France.. They were polite, interesting, and asked relevant questions, but also were able to laugh with each other as we all swapped a bit of 'military banter'..
Its a pity some of the imature posters knocking around these forums don't act in the same manner.. Take that as you will.

Hi all, here are a couple other screenshots of some custom textures we have under development for the Cross Channel Map. Still tweaking on the set but are inspired by the addition of our offroad dirt roadways. Great fun for tank busting missions.

Best regards,
352ndBooze

looking fantastic it has to be said!

Truly stunning work 352ndBooze!

My hat goes off to you and your team! Thank you for all of your efforts.

Hedge

Stunning work, can't wait to get the chance to flying on these maps!

Wow, looks FANTASTIC gentlemen!

On a side note, I sure hope Lowengrin or someone does a DCG campaign(s) for it.

@ map-makers : please verify if there where so many trees at the side of country road.. just a doubt , seem to me they're a bit too "dense".but great work!:).

@ Falco : Along main roads, probably not, but for small dirt roads found between fields, this is bloody perfect. I know places that look exactly like that not a 5 minutes drive from where I am right now.

Excellent work 352nd !

Cheers

Nico

Ditto VonBarb
It's not too disimilar to Kent country side too. Even on some main roads

Sort of answers the wife's question of "Why, exactly, do you need four gigs of RAM?"

I'm not usually a mod kind of guy, I like to keep things simple, working and hassle free.

In this case though I may have to make and exception, great work.

No don't.. Think of all the enjoyment.. you will absolutely hate yourself.

The psychiatrist is:-

IN

Ming

I'm a mod kind of guy and it's simple, working and hassle free.

Hi all, couple more shots of main roads wip.

best regards,

WoW! ETA?

Probably TW. Not before IIRFR anyway...

Cheers

Nico

Can we get these into DGen?

Or is it another waste of time in that direction, like Bessarabia?




BTW, I only use DGen for campaigns as I've never got on well with DCG for IL2, hence the question.



Tony

Thanks for your inquiry TonyEH. We curently have no plans for DGEN or NGEN with respect to our map. I'm quite sure, if the community excepts the map with open arms, as we have done thus far, that some action may take place to accomodate your needs - perhaps by enthusists in this very forum. We will be including some form of Cooperative BoB Campaign and QMB support. Once the dust settles after the maps' release, I may build an NGEN Campaign for this map, but its a bit early to plan anything along those lines. I would also like to get with 4Shades and work on incorporating the map into SEOW - again, it's a bit early to think abut such things, but, you never know.......


Oscar

DCG uses pre-made maps with fixed routes. You can change any map to which ever one you want. However, with the maps being different - you will have to make your own. There are instructions on how to do that, and it doesn't take that long at all.

Who's going to host this thing? Nobody 8..(

Actually Hackl, the members of the 352nd (26 at last count) fly this map regularly during testing sessions for new bases, weather, spawn point tests, etc. Any somewhat current system today should be able to host - no problem. The only limiting factor I know of would be bandwidth for the host - a modem is definitely out of the question LOL!

Couple shots of Amiens wip.

It looks like a completely different game! Amazing work, I hope you keep presenting Screens to us!

Also, if you don't mind me asking...What is the scale of the map?

CSG_Enven thanks we are glad to do so. The map is 1:1 scale so bring lots of fuel.

Booze, those are some awesome pics mate! Really looking forward to flying this one. S! to all you gents involved.

Hi Booze. I meant to post this on the 352nd's site but the 'no hotmail' policy prevents me from registering there, so here is my question :

Regarding objects placement on the map, I noticed you went for a pretty 'empty' countryside to minimise the FPS hit (ie : few houses outside of towns etc...) but that you also make extensive use of the 'haystack' object in fields, around towns etc...
Now, I don't mean to criticize your fantastic work, but I was thinking that maybe not using those haystacks would give the map a more 'generic' atmosphere instead of the very July-August one created by those haystacks, while at the same time maybe allowing for denser houses placement for the same FPS hit.
I suppose I'm not the first one to think about this, but I figgured I'd post it just in case.

Just my 2cts

Keep up the good work, I'm really looking forward to flying your map !

Cheers

Nico

Personally I think the haystacks add more to the scene than the sum of their parts. We haven't seen any screenshots of villages for this map but I'm sure they are working on it. I really like the direction 352group are taking with this map. Their map may blend all elements much like the Slovakian map does. I know it will be difficult, especially in regards to frame rates, but I'd rather upgrade my system to make it work, than stagnate with the status quo.

Thanks guys, we have not posted any of the villages yet because we are still working on the textures and new approach for them but will put some up soon so you can see where its headed. They will be similar to the setup for the Slovakian map. Also bear in mind that the majority of the haystacks you see are not hard coded into the map. Though some are but most of them are are for screenshots purposes only.

Best regards,
Booze

Any news on this beautiful map ? Extimated time of arrival ? New Screen shots ? It looks like it is being made for the new BOBSOW engine.

FF,

We hit a bump in the development road and have been working our way through a build issue. We've got it solved, finally but the problem caused a delay (besides being very frustrating).

Meanwhile, Booze continues with his creativity and the textures keep getting more beautiful. Base development is nearly completed. We've some cities and villages to finish up and some details to tweak.

We're getting close. Very close.

This map looks stunning! I've installed the mod just to be ready for this map.. It's a must fly! Can't wait for the first opportunity to fly it..

Thanks for the update 352nd Persecutor. There is a great number of us looking forward to.

Really excited at this new development. The thought of flying and fighting over a really good representation of southern England has renewed my enthusiasm for the game.

I may have posed similar questions in the past but that was before mods were deemed an acceptable subject:

1. With these new textures and objects being created, does one presume there will be a couple of new placeable objects as well?

2. If so, what are the chances of creating narrow short lengths of very small brambles/clumps of taller grasses/weeds that one could place alongside the bases of buildings so they look more bedded in?

I've always thought one of the main giveaways in IL2 (and others) was the feeling buildings are perched on top of the ground rather then being embedded with proper foundations. There's nothing to show a blending of the walls and their surroundings.
Look at any number of buildings and they usually have some evidence of wild growth about the base of the walls and maybe some rising staining creeping up from mildew/moss etc. I realise this is nit-picking stuff and hardly vital to the flying exprience, but given we're striving to make things visually much more realistic and authentic, such seemingly minor tweaks do make a difference. Well they do to me . . . !

If there are guys out there tweaking the buildings and their textures, I wondered how difficult it would be to create these small 'objects', given we already have clumps of trees that can be placed by the user.

this is nit-picking stuff

Not at all chox it's a really good idea

Like placing an AA cannon (and other objects) in a spot where it looks as if paths (already painted on the default texture tiles) have been worn down in the getting to it. Added value

Ming

.. What I'd like, but this will probably not be able to be modded in current IL2, is track marks in the soil surface when heavy vehicles go cross country (off the road). In real life it would be fairly easy to spot, from above, track marks from a tank company advance over a field. I've always been struggling to find the 12 tanks marked for attack in game.. in real life if these tanks were combat maneuvering they would be digging big and noticeable scars in the terrain and easily traceable. But this is probably not possible to realise in game.

During my service with the Swedish army tank forces (Strv 103C S-tank) we were thought to be careful of how we entered defensive or stationary positions as to not reveal our selves to be spotted from above..

The buildings in the Slovakia map appear to be imbedded in the ground because part of the foundations are visible on slightly sloping ground. Its a great effect far superior than most any map I've seen. Buildings on most other maps and sims appear to be floating above the ground.

Thanks for that Ming - I thought it was only me who did that! I always try to set up defence sections, huts, parked vehicles etc at the end of or immediately beside these paths or dirt tracks as it looks more natural. Same as telegraph poles dotted about at estimated correct distances and either running beside the tracks or crossing grass areas directly to the side of a likely building.

I'd always hoped there would be some new tree objects we could add, rather than the same height and quite wishy-washy pale green groups of five we currently have (unles there have been more added - haven't played for a while). I know there were some garish four-bladed types that looked most cartoonish so I never used those. Trouble is, despite trying to arrange groups in likely positions, all being the same height and colour it really doesn't convince.

However the new scenery on the BoB map looks way better. I'd just like to create some softer edges around the bases of buildings. I'm sure I can feel the breeze from all those heads shaking in utter disbelief and muttering 'sad git' or something suitable . . . oh, it was my wife ...

Nope, it's not just you mate.

I spend many hours ( sad git alert ! ) building up airfields with trees, and AA etc. around the premade paths and so forth.

I second ( or third ) your request for a low bushy object.

I second ( or third ) your request for a low bushy object.

And a beaver pool

Ming

Hi all, just though we'd stop in and post a couple recent shots of progress on the 352nd Cross Channel map. Since the last post we've finished up 11 more Luftwaffe bases and a couple more RAF airfields. RAF Stapleford below. Persecutor is very close to finishing all the roads and bridges for the entire map. We do not have a release date yet but we are marching closer.

Best regards,
Booze

Now that is simply stunning; it is precisely how I would imagine it should look in the simulation.

Agreed!

I think the map package should ship with a shovel to pick up your fallen jaws from the ground!

Amazing pics! Keep up the great work.

Just stunning screenies from the "other channel" map!!!

I had to double check the http line...to make sure I am in the right place!!
You are not just kidding us...right?
>--------O---------<
!Thank you!

This map is going to be so good.. Thanks to all you talented people!

Thanks all for the kind words. Kadin I promise we are not kidding.

Booze

I've jjjjust mmmelted!

We've got a damp patch be warned

Ming

Couple of pics from Hawkinge.

Literally jaw-dropping Booze, amazing work thanks!

Can you do the oak and elm, ash and Southern beech please? The pointy larch around churches and large houses, rounded-profile native species in the fields. The spreading chestnut tree beside the forge

Ming

Windsock!

I'm slowly running out of superlatives praising this project.

Have you done Raydon yet?

F%$&ing Cool! Comes to mind & can probably be used many times!

Thanks all. Warbirds we should have Carpiquet completed by this weekend then I believe Raydon is next on the list.

Booze

Any chance of getting the opportunity to try this map out.. like beta.. limited size.. soon?!!?! I'm dying to get flying on this one!

We know how frustrating it is to see stuff like this and have to wait for it. Fortunately, we *are* in fact getting very close. Long ago we decided to *not* release a beta version but to hold off and release the map when it is done as well as we can do it.

Naturally, stuff changes; we learn new tricks, new objects become available, and we find small errors (sometimes not so small) in what we have done and have had to go back, once almost to square one, to fix them. This is a learning process for us (there are no textbooks). When it's finally done (pretty soon now, I think) we hope you'll all agree the wait was well worth it.

One thing this map is not vaporware.

I think it is clearly understandable that such a map takes a long time to design, even for a team, if the quality requirement is even average, and you are trying to make more than an "average" quality map.

Yes, I understand that it takes alot of time and that Murphys Law does apply at times. Please not get me wrong, the tone of my request is one with admirations and desire, not frustration

Where's the fun working away at something for years if you can't share your work-in-progress

It's not stressed that this work is WIP but that's only because the label fell off

This way Persecutor you get to share your WIP plus you can point "Why isn't/Why is..." questions to the sign. It's quicker, leaving you more time to work. Stop reading immediately and get back to work btw

Ming

Leave me alone, Ming. I'm busy working on the map!!

Thanks, Col Monroe has passed away but I am sure he would have been happy to see his old home field Raydon finally in this sim.

Warbirds I saw that he had passed away a while back and I'm very sorry our map was not completed in time for him to see it. However we will be building Raydon in his honor so I hope in some small way he knows it will be our way of saying thanks for all he did. We are finishing up on Carpiquet as we speak and hope to have it posted by tonight or tomorrow am. Then will put the finishing touches on Raydon and should have it ready in a couple of days.

Best regards,
Booze

can this work be integrated with compans new maps he made ? his work is photo realistic from medium and high altitude.

your airfields, and immediately surrounding scenery, are extremely good from low altitude,

why not integrate the 2 so we get the best of both worlds ?

You should be able to add Compans very good textures to any map. I'm hoping the 352nd Group can stay with a few British 3D villages similiar to the Slovakian map. Not sure if its possible considering the work required.

Rootango we will not be using photorealistic textures except possibly for small parts of London and Paris. Besides our airfields thus far we have developed over 40 custom textures that match our map, we have just not displayed them yet but they are all similar to what you see surrounding the airfields.
Compans textures are very good and you can put them into any map you would like by editing the load.ini file.

Chivas we are still sticking to the plan with the small villages. We are working on a couple custom village textures in fashion with the Slovakian style but trying to make them look English and French.

Cheers,
Booze

Excellent...I like the color, wheel streaking, and texture of the runways...they stand out naturally, without overshadowing the terrain surrounding them. Not sure how hard it would be to add slight changes in color in the roads to make them blend naturally with the terrain.

Booze...I expect you have your own gameplan for London etc...but you're welcome to use or adapt my textures. Looking forward to seeing this and Cannon's map released.


S! Comp

Compans thank you for the offer, we may take you up on that, your textures are Outstanding. What we are planning on doing for London and Paris is using textures like yours for the majority of the city area but have one section cleaned and populated with target buildings somewhere around the downtown docks area. This will be best for game play and also give those that want to bomb London or Paris an area with actual targets to destroy. Thank you again your offer is very gracious and appreciated.

Chivas thanks and yes I goofed up when I took the screenshots. We have 3 runway textures we're playing with and when I generated out the texture I forgot to add the outer glow. Its a brownish color that blends in pretty good with the surround areas. We are working on Raydon now so you will see the runways there in a couple days. Always appreciate your input.

Best regards,
Booze

Hell!

What is the date at which the Carpiquet field is reproduced?

I know it is easier to criticize than to make! The general shape is excellent but I can't help myself not noticing that the two dispersal area W of the field are missing, and the large hangars and some of their associated tarmac areas around the field are either wrong (again, sorry) or missing.
All the large hangars were present in 1940 because of french origin.

Also, the runways were concrete, so should be light grey (and dirtied like you did nicely), without white central markings, and the same goes for all the taxiways, including the ones in the dispersal areas.

Here is a photo of Caen in 1945:



Note that the dispersal area at the bottom of the photo (which is one of the two missing) is still very much in use today, hangars included...

Amically,

JV

Not sure how hard it would be to add slight changes in color in the roads to make them blend naturally with the terrain.

There's a lot of roads but for me too roads could be re-textured to blend more naturally into the surrounding terrain 100% agree with that Chivas. Less grey tarmac more Chalky, Cobble and Rubble yes, the English lawyers partnership. Ask for Barney

Ming

Thanks guys, will make the updates, appreciate the input. JV any chance you might have a pic of the field in 1940 also, or was it pretty much the same?

Best regards,
Booze

Why is there no second runway on this recon shot of 44 like on your WIP shots? And the only runway that should be there is considerably shorter.

Booze - so have your team figured out how to have extra texture slots on the load.ini? Are you able to have an unlimited number of airfield textures in addition to the landscape textures?

Guys.. airfields evolved during the war.. things changed as the war progressed.. C'mon, the airfield is absolutely fine as it is...

Hello!

Zorin was quicker than me as I was ready to publish this very same image which is from April 44.
So it is now obvious that the second runway is British and made of PSP or Marston mat, which explains its darker tint in comparison with the very light grey of the German main runway.
It was established in July 44, after Carpiquet was re-taken by the Canadian troops and named B-17.
Most probably the British engineers found it more expedient to establish a new runway first than trying to repair the main one which was heavily damaged by the many bombings.
My photo is of 1945 and makes an interesting comparison!

To answer Booze, out of experience my analysis is that Carpiquet was like many large French airbases had only grass runways in 1940 during BoB. The large hangars and their tarmac were all present (there are many varieties, at least 3, maybe 4 by the way!) as well as the peripheral taxiway and the "life zone" on the left on Zorin's photo (which is East of the field).

At the end of 1940/beginning of 1941, the German beefed up the taxiways, added the main runway and the dispersal areas in their typical fashion (I have a photo of the western group which shows they were already there in 1942), all of this in light grey concrete, which made them quite easy to spot.
The Germans were used to break the shapes of their concrete runways by using large patches of green paint or mixtures of paint and organic materials; at least it was lowering the albedo...I think some of it can be seen on the right end of the runway on Zorin's photo; those patches are too large to be bomb crater repairs...

Most of the concrete installations (at least the real ambitious ones like runways) were not begun before the end of 1940! As an example, Abbeville which was a very important German airbase as you all know had its first concrete runway (out of 3) laid out at this moment (info CanonUK, by the way! Thanks!).
Some BoB airfields have had some concrete work by mid-40, but it was limited to taxiways, simple hangars (1 or 2 A/C) and other small buildings like field command post, Flak stands and the like.

The airfield question is a extensive one...Wait for the day where we will have to unravel the realisations around Foggia (and more generally in Italy!) or the Germany fields, from 1939 BoF to defending the Reich 1945...Hmmm! that will be fun!

Amically,

JV

Hi,

Here a shot from 10th July 1943.



plus image of damage to airfield hangers taken in 1944



hope that helps a little

yours stu

Damn! I forgot to look in Footnote...Good find, Stu!

JV/Stu, thanks for the info and the aerial, this should be easy enough to fix and will work perfect for 2 or 3 versions of the map. I'm currently working on Raydon so if you happen across any early pictures of the field a link would be appreciated.

Thanks again,
Booze

Wow.

Bodney?

Edit...found it. Are you using reference pics from Sam Sox or Punchy?
I'd like to see an accurate version of Bodney, one that isn't personalized and modified for your online squadron. Not complaining...just a thought. Since the 352nd is the Squadron that I'm writing about, I have a certain attachment to seeing that field done realistically if possible.

Cheers
Gambit21

I live about 5 miles southwest of Stapleford and your version is a pretty good representation of how it looked up until only a couple of years ago (there is an tarmac runway now). Can't wait to fly over it.

Gentlemen, all;

The 352nd Virtual Fighter Group Team, lead more than capably by 352ndBooze, is spending hundreds and hundreds of hours to make this map the very best we can make it. Booze in particular every day pushes the outer bounds of what we think the simulation can handle and in doing so learns much that makes the map ever so much better.

In doing that we are making judgment calls every day; this field will look this way at this period of time, the other field will look the other way at the other period of time, these textures are what we will use, those we will not; these roads are not going to be added, those are, and so forth. In making these judgments we are considering all the input we've had from countless community volunteers over months and months of contribution (including from these forums), providing opinions, photographs, links to historical information, maps, airfield layouts and the like. That input is freely given from the heart with the only intent that everyone's enjoyment of the result be improved. The map is turning out better than our wildest imagination could have conjured up, in no small part because of the community input.

However, somewhere, sometime, we have to draw a line around things and say "this is the way it will be". Candidly, since it is our map, it is our line to draw. Bodney is the home field of the 352nd Fighter Group, we have access to blueprints and images of the field during the time the Group was there, and we're comfortable that we've made it as historically accurate as we can. The same is true of every field we've re-created. We've exercised a bit of artistic license with Bodney because of, well .... because it is OUR field, OUR map, and because we can.

When the map is released it will be completely open source, and every one of you is free to adjust, modify, tweak, improve, and whatever to your heart's content, and if you improve upon it you will have our undying gratitude. We certainly do not claim we are perfect; only that we try really, really hard to do the right thing well. One of our goals, when we're done with the map and have learned enough to feel comfortable to pass our knowledge along, is to produce a series of "this is how we did it" tutorials, if for no other reason than to give would-be improvers a jumping-off point.

We have never suggested we can be all things to all people; on the contrary we are quick to realize that we cannot accomplish that remarkable feat, especially alone. The virtual world encompassed by the Cross-Channel Map is entirely new ground. We wish we could improve upon the road textures but unfortunately they are hard coded (as far as we know) into the game. Perhaps someone, somewhere, will figure out how to change that fact. Maybe, before this adventure is over, we will. At this point we have to live with the limitation. We're not even sure that this map will play well on most systems with fifty or more pilots; we haven't been able to test it at that level and we know full well we are way out past the bounds of the known into "uncharted territory". But .... we have no problem going there ... someone has to do it, it might as well be us. How about going along for the ride with us? It should be really, really fun!

Accurate photographs of any airfield at any point in time, particularly Luftwaffe fields, are very hard to find. We have searched high and low for them, had invaluable community input in finding them, and settled on the results of our search. Daily, someone else will find something new and revolutionary, something we will have wished we had known yesterday. But we didn't, and we've already determined what plan we would use. We have to live with some plan sometime, at least for now. A new discovery is a wonderful thing, and a perfect thing for someone to add to the map once it's released; every such addition will be with our blessing (we ask only that our initial contribution be recognized).

The imagery that Booze is providing is incredible; he's an artiste of unusual ability and is doing an absolutely terrific job of making a virtually realistic map from what has been, until now, a much more obviously "computer simulated" world. No doubt a year from now knowledge and tools will have evolved to make this work, no matter how good it is now, seem "passe". For now, though, I think you'll agree it is out there on the cutting edge.

But it will all have been worth the effort if any of you enjoy flying the map, and every corner of it, (and I have absolutely no doubt that every one of you will).

Blue skies!!

Bodney is the home field of the 352nd Fighter Group, we have access to blueprints and images of the field during the time the Group was there, and we're comfortable that we've made it as historically accurate as we can. The same is true of every field we've re-created. We've exercised a bit of artistic license with Bodney because of, well .... because it is OUR field, OUR map, and because we can

More power to your elbow Percy

Ming

Hello Booze! I am not an English airfield specialist so I will let some other people looking for Raydon info. Besides the English side is relatively well documented, in opposition to the German side!
I just wanted to confirm what I was saying about Carpiquet during BoB time; a friend of mine passed me a drawing of Carpiquet 1940 which settles definitively the question: grass field with peripheral concrete installations including all the large hangars. here is the drawing:



So, generally speaking NONE of the German-side airfields during BoB time had any concrete runway (not before late to very late 1940): this includes Le Havre, Caen, Saint Omer Arques and Longuenesse, Abbeville, Calais, Dunkerque, Le Touquet, St Inglevert, Berck, Lille Sud, Montdidier, just to name a few. Some very few airfields did benefit of a concrete runway at the start of the BoB, those built by BEF: the only one I know for sure is Yvrench/Cramont, with a slab organization distinctly not German.

Later during war, the use of macadam for runways was not unheard of (Rosières, f.i.) but was exceptional: the rule was that most of the runways were made out of concrete slabs with no marking, except attempts at camouflage as explained before.

Now, like 352nd Persecutor so aptly explained, this is your map, so good luck!

JV

JV thank you, the diagram and your info is much appreciated.

Booze

No kidding.

Booze - did you see my question on page 16?

Warbirds as promised here is a couple pics of our wip draft of Raydon. After we touch it up we'll set the final buildings and runway points but this should give you a quick look. There are more on the 352nd website if you're interested. Not sure if you are the one who contacted me a couple months ago but if so we will be putting out a document upon release of the map that includes data on all the airbases. We would like to dedicate Raydon to Col. Monroe so if you have any history or information on the Col. you would like included please let me know, we would be honored.

Canon we have a couple new techniques we are using.

Best regards,
Booze

"Canon we have a couple new techniques we are using."


Cagey bugger!



S! Comp

And is that 'new technique' a method for having even more textures in the load.ini?

*BUMP!*
Long time no update.. I'm dying for some news on the progress of this Channel map!

Hi Lacrits, thanks for asking. We've been working steadily away on the maps, trying to get some flying time in and trying to get ready for the upcoming Holidays. 352ndPersecutor has recently finished off the entire road/rail network and all the bridges for the entire map which was a huge job but behind us now. So we're putting everything in place and getting things cleaned up for our first release of our Cross Channel Map. We have not set a date because it just never works out when you do that so we'll for sure let everyone know a couple days in advance of where and when.

Below is one of our recent wip of RAF Upavon which is a small grass training base which will be included in our 1943 version.

Best regards,
Booze

*ring ring..*
- Santa rep "Hello, Santas ordering departement.. how may I help you?"
- lacrits "You know that Channel map the 352nd are working on for IL2.. ? Could I add it to my wish list to have Santa deliver on Christmas eve?"
- Santa rep "No problems, it's now added directly under new joystick and new external harddrive.."
- lacrits "Great! So what are my odds for this wish coming true?"
- Santa rep ".. sorry dude, can't say.. these things are tricky you know with bits and bytes it's so different to wood and nails.. But if you are a good boy, behave and be nice, rest asure The Big Man and his elves will do their best for you"

Thanks for the update Booze!
Love all the stuff you putting up here on the new Channel map! I'm also silently browsing your forums now as well.. biting my nails.. But don't worry, I can contain myself!
Best of luck to the 352nd map makers crew and their progress!

Gordon Bennett! what a wonderful project!

God speed 352nd, have a great Christmas and New year

S!ap

Stunning screens!!
I imagine a SoW:BoB map maker looking at this thread and scratching his head

You know, that makes sense VP. I wouldn't be surprised if parts of this map magically reappeared in SoW...

Cheers

Nico

Wow! You chaps have Upavon looking good - you even appear to have it on a slope (which it is). Is this correct, and have you managed to include sloping runways ?

Thanks all, and our best wishes to you all for a Great Holiday and Wonderful New Year!

Dunkelgrun thanks. Upavon is currently on a flat surface. Putting it on a slope is possible but requires alot of extra work to do it right. We'll see how much time we have into the 43 map. Thanks again.

Booze

Looks great, one thing (not sure if possible) that would make the trees look excellent is if there were many different hieghts. One thing about il2 compaired to the other sims is it has no feel of height taking off on the ground, everything is scaled too small. Very large trees woulf break up the same level scale of things a bit.

Everything you guys did looks excellent and just taking about the game itself Makes me want to use the blue noses except the unarmed 540kmph wing break mustang is so fustrating

I wonder too if it can be modeled (given the time of year) smoke rising out of chimneys and such without being a FR killer. This in it's self without anything more is absolutly stunning and you guys should have been on the payroll. I hope to see this map soon under me as I fight off the Huns and crash for no reason

Beautiful map Booze.
I can't wait to fly it.

and a Happy New year to one and all.

Wheelsup


(Post # 8)

Hi All most recent update at Thorpe Abbotts

Beautiful! How many more airfields do you have to go, hint, hint

Ruger thanks. The BoB version is completed and being assembled now for release. The late war version of the map we still have many airfields like you see above to build but should not take as long as we have some new techniques we are using in the build.

Best regards,
Booze

That's good news, Booze! Thanks for the update. Any idea of the hoped for day of release? Meaning your hoped for release, not ours as that would have been months ago. Keep up the great work!

WOOOHOOO

Excellent, excellent excellent ! I have a question for you Booze : When (what year) does 'late war' start ? Which version of the map would be best to represent, say, August 19th 1942 ?

Cheers

Nico

So let me get this straight - you guys are duplicating CannonUK's work?

No, this is a completely different map with different textures, cities, roads and airfield placement. It (roughly) represents the same area as Canon's map, but differently and at different time periods.

You can't have too many Channel maps

Cheers

Nico

X-Man,

No, we are not duplicating CanonUK's map. The 352nd VFG map is much larger and is 1:1 scale. In its first iteration the Canon map was 1:2. I'm not sure what it is now as I believe it has been adjusted to be larger in scale, but still not 1:1.

You can see a good comparison of the two maps, and the in-game Normandy map, here.

Additionally, the 352nd map will be released in two versions; the first will be the 1940 Battle of Britain version with airfields, both RAF and German, that are historically correct for that period. The second will be an 8th Air Force version that will model Allied and Axis airfields during the later war years (1943-45) with a corresponding emphasis on Allied fighter and bomber bases and later Luftwaffe airfields.

The two maps will probably serve different purposes; the 352nd map is larger and lends itself to long, real-time co-ops. Canon's map, being smaller, will, I suspect, satisfy other needs better.

looks amazing, how hard would it be to make runways an actual ground texture kinda like midway. Looks so much more realistic then the thin flickery mat runways to me this game uses. Something i never got is why 1c use them that way instead of a ground texture. Another thing that would be cool is if we canmod the bomb blasts on runways to stay there longer. I think one patch they stayed for 3 seconds depending on bomb size. it would be nice to up that to a much longer time since we have no way of disabling runway spawns. Something that was a great feature and online game play in other flight games of the past.

352nd Persecutor - thanks for that detailed yet brief explaination. They will all be welcome additions to the game and I must say, this is going to be great.

Leadspitter, many of the newer maps (CannonUK's, the Slovakia and Slovenia maps as well as the new MTO map) use modified ground textures for airfields. They blend in nicely with the surrounding terrain and you can take off/land in any direction.

Leadspitter, yes you can pretty much design what you want now and get it to work in the sim without to much trouble.

Booze

Damn nice screeny there Booze! Really really looking forward to release of your channel map..

There is something I've always wanted to ask : If your airfields use ground textures and there are so many different bases so accurately modelled, just how many different textures slots are there in your map ? I've seen more airfields on your site than there are texture slots in a standard load.ini...

Did you have to sacrifice texture diversity elsewhere to be able to have so many 'unique' airfield textures loading with the map (though it doesn't look like you did) or did you - man I hope you did - find a way to add as many texure files to the map as you want ?

Cheers

Nico

I'm pretty sure it involves pagan symbols, witchcraft, voodoo and something with a goat. Yes Booze I saw you leading that goat into the "CCM Map Shack" the other day......

Seriously though, what they are doing and how they do it are beyond me. I just love what they are actually being able to do. I know for the VFG, Bodney is very important, and to me as well, but I was also really looking forward to Thorpe Abbotts, and they have nailed it IMHO....you can almost hear the B17s warming up in the hardstands....

Great stuff Booze! Can't wait to play on this map!!!

Looking at the latest screenshot and I wonder if there is a cloud mod included in your map.

~Salute~
Chivas

Fantastic, look so much better than anything we have seen form SOW.

Yes Oleg would be hard pressed to make the airfields look any better than what we are seeing in 352nds wonderfull map.

Just to counter your slightly negative tinged posts on SOW development,:) everything else should be much better with the highly capable SOW engine. Especially in terrain elevations with actual river banks, London Docks with vertical pilings, just for a start. The villages, London, White Cliffs of Dover detail, moving weather fronts, will be unprecedented. Especially if the developer can pull off the cinematic quality he's striving for.

It will be interesting to see what kind of computer will be required to turn some of the detail up with playable frame rates. Luckily the developer has a history of writing very tight code.

Your right it was a wee bit negative, we haven't really seen any SOW terrain yet and no doubt it will be stunning but it does raise the question how these lads and Cannon can be so productive when they work pretty much alone and on a part time basis, yet we see very little from Oleg.

Nobody wants screenshots of the SOW terrain more than I, but there can be many valid reasons the developer has decided to delay displaying any info. You also have to realize the map modders are dealing with a completed game engine with no concerns with combining new AC, AI, FM, DM, Unprecedented number of objects and detail, moving weather systems, together with playable frame rates. This is a huge stubbling block as I've seen no real advancement of computer capablilites over the last few years.

Also.

1. Any terrain screenshots released will be immediately be copy, pasted, and tweaked for use by IL-2 map modders.

2. Any wip screenshot posted with features that don't make the final cut will be immediatly used against them by the "YOU PROMISED CROWD".

3. A new terrain ideas could be used by other competitive developers such as ROF, etc.

4. Mainly I think the terrain is so complex and detailed that the developer is not sure what detail will make the final cut even with terrain detail options.

All pure speculation of course, but having developed simple projects that seemed so simple drafted in my imagination and yet so difficult to bring to fruition. I can't imagine the difficulties in completing something as complicated as a cinematic combat flight sim.

That said SOW is still 10 to 16 months away so there is plenty of time to hype the game.

~Salute~
Chivas

I can't belive this




This is..........is.............STUNNING! I can't wait for my moment in the drizzle

Just b-e-a-uuuutiful Booze!

Just those pointy trees to camouflage then for utter perfection. The oak and beech, the elm and the chestnut. Pines are Norwegian. Them and the larch. The larch. And not forgetting the cedars of Lebanon, holly and the yew around the Vicarage

Next week: Birds of Britain starring Barbara Windsor

Ming

I thought I saw a squirrel some place too Ming

That is one bumpy runway, how does the AI respond to it?

Just being curious here

I like the contrast of the trees vs the wide open spaces, meadows, pastures.

Week after: Open Areas of Britain starring Gracie Fields.

I suspect he was looking for his nuts.... (the squirrel that is...)

Hello everyone!

If like anyone else I am impressed by the beautiful work made on airfield implementation in IL2, I still find the historical research quite lackluster....

Let me explain a bit: in the case of Beauvais-Tillé airfield, historical and geographical unfortunate errors have been made. The "352nd" Beauvais airfield could be used as a 1941-1944 airfield; however the real BoB Beauvais Tillé airfield was exactly South of the one depicted, the E-W hard runway marking its northern border.
The original terrain was the one used by the Germans during BoB and did exist until the end of the war. This means also that a certain number of fields and hedges shown on the image above should not and never were there...



On the 1945 photo, taken from the North, the BoB airfield is at the top:



In the red ellipse the original 1927 airfield, and in green the BoB airfield. Note that there were no hangars or installation whatsoever when the Germans established themselves at Tillé. All the work was done between end of 1940 to presumably end of 194/beginning of 1942.

There is something still more interesting at Beauvais: the Germans also created a second BoB airfield at Nivilliers:



In red, Tillé/BoB, in green Tillé/41-45, in blue beauvais Nivillers (aircraft standpoints/hangars were mainly in the wood on the right, most of them having been annihilited now by the crossing A16 motorway.
In yellow the concrete connection between the two airfields (still existing!). All the concrete installations are post BoB like for Tillé. During BoB the A/C were presumably hidden under camouflage nets on the wood edges like they did everywhere else at that time.

Also, Arras Roclincourt airfield was created out of nothing in 1962...The real Arras airfields were in Duisans (too small, barely usable for fighters) and St Léger (bomber airfield, mainly Do-17 during BoB. Abandoned during 1942).

I am always available for help if I can...

Amically,

JVM

An Airfield Spotter......

Interesting info, but I would hardly call the 352nd's historical research "quite lackluster". They may or may not have made a mistake or two but overall its "quite impressive".

JVM thanks for the info, please check your PMs. Would welcome your help. Unfortunately for me all the errors occurring on the Luftwaffe bases are mine and mine alone and in no way should be a reflection on the 352ndVFG. As you can see my forte is not research.

Chivas I believe we are using the standard cloud MOD in our package. I'll need to check with Coster from our squadron. He was one of the originators of the Unified Installer and Version Switcher. He updates them for us every month or so as new MODS are developed and our entire squadron installs the same one so we are all on the same page. I will check and get back with you.

Zorin yes bumpy indeed. The screenshots you see are not the final versions of the bases they are still undergoing testing. But since we are making some better progress in understanding what we can and cannot do with the game engine, new ideas pop up that we like to try. My thoughts are that somewhere in the sim there must be a setting that would allow us to adjust the smoothness of the ground and or the textures themselves to allows us to land on surfaces that are not perfectly flat. It is fun to test the bases with the sloped runways, although I normally end up on my nose. I have enough trouble landing when its smooth. So if we do not have an answer prior to release of our late war map then the airbases will continue to be flat.

Thanks again all for your comments and suggestions

Best regards,
Booze

Hey Booze, I think I was some gravel out of place, think you could fix that please before you release the map, it's just not 100% accurate

Don't think it's an easy task to be 100% historically accurate when you are trying to put out a Channel map with alot of airfields on both sides.. I think if the 352nd were striving for 100% accuracy we would have to wait several years before we saw this map released.. Once released I'm sure there will be update releases, revisions, that follows with bug fixes and adjustments etc. "quite lackluster" sounds a bit harsh in my ears.. but maybe it's just a language thingy and not your intention to put the 352nd down?

Guys its all good. I am sure comments here are not meant to be harsh or critical. Again we welcome the assistance and more insight into the Luftwaffe bases. We realize that the map is not going to be 100% accurate but we'll try to get it as close as we can with what we have available and new things pop up everyday. Plus I am confident that BoBSOW will be released the day after we complete our map anyway.

Booze

Booze, please check MP.

And no, I do not want to belittle in any way 352nd and Booze work, which I find of wonderful execution! However some of the physical/historical data need some (sometimes extensive) rework, and Booze seems to agree with my statement, so I will help...that's all, folks!

JVM

Thanks JVM, yes we appreciate you sharing your expertise on the subject and your personal data to assist us in getting this map into shape. This is a win win for all and like Christmas time for me. New data, time to get back to work.

Best regards,
Booze

D*mn, another delay, I don't need every hanger its historicl location, I never knew where they were in the first place.

Gentlemen thats Excellent and I mean Excellent Work please keep it up


S`

2nd that!
I'll settle with a semi-historically accurate first release.. Then down the line feed me the more accurate. Knowing the amount of research thats gone into the project so far I am sure I am getting a damn good expirience, even better than damn good given whats available to date.. However you twist it, it's still a game!

there must be a setting that would allow us to adjust the smoothness of the ground

New maps means that the XYZ coordinates of a map's terrain mesh are accessible, is there a problem with the final map not allowing smoothed areas even after they've been created? A practical limitation?

Model a big concrete roller object?

Does this mean we're never going to get cricket pitches

Ming

Not to worry guys this will not delay our original release of the BoB map. This will however give us a much more accurate solid platform to build the late war map upon. Thanks again to JVM for his assistance with the Luftwaffe bases.

Ming I cannot guarantee the Cricket Pitch but we're going to keep working on the runways until we figure it out.

Booze

Looking forward to this Booze

The other bit was serious Booze, can you explain why you're having difficulty? I bet someone could help you out if you cast your bread on the waters. I'm very interested to find out why flat areas are tricky to create as part of the terrain mesh, sounds like a two-pipe problem

Amen to that Brigs, really looking forward to this map

Ming

Thanks Brigstock, always nice to see ya.

Chivas I checked with Coster and we are using the very first cloud MOD that was introduced last spring I believe it was version 1 of Flushy's.

Ming please check your PM's when convenient.

Best regards,
Booze

To all involved in this map. Outstanding work ! I'm looking forward to this and especially the " late" war map. Your work is greatly appreciated.

Looks like bounching "Dick Auto" over Belgium at 7000M from a ground start might be a reallity. Especially with the Me 410s, Fw 190As hitting bombers and Bf 109Gs and Fw 190Ds as escort Woohoo! It's going to be fun!

Bump!
(Cause I think it needs it..)

Booze, any news on the the early BoB map development.. or maybe a hint at a release date?

Yes let's not put any pressure on anyone or anything that's the main thing papers, papers

Ming

You're no fun, Ming! Now where are those thumb screws... I had them yesterday...

F19_lacrits thanks for asking. No difinitive date as of yet, but we're working on it daily. Here's what we are doing. The first map we release (The 1940 map) is going to be our original plated base version which we are reassembling now. See below. The reason for this is we already have almost all of the bases completed and to redo the 1940 map in all textures would set us back a while. We are going to release this one first and then use the textured bases for our Late War Map. This way the first version of the map will be out and everyone will have something to fly.

Another reason is recently JVM provided us with much needed data and photos involving the France/German side of the map. There is some incredible things in what he has given us and we want to take the extra time and build these in with as much accuracy as possible. We will be creating new textures and models for this version in which we hope to include, new hangers, buildings, bunkers, fortifications, sub pens, etc.

JVM I want to thank you again for sharing your work. We realize this is not something that one acquires in a few hours searching the net but must have been years of steadfast research. We appreciate all you have shared.

Best regards,
Booze

Thanks for the update, Booze. You'll have to forgive us, we're an impatient lot by nature and it's a testament to the quality of the work you gents are doing that we are so revved up and anxious to get our grubby little hands on it. S!

That is a good approch Booze, that way you'll have the master layout with the evolution of the years to come and still have the foundation of the original model to draw from, brilliant! Horsham is looking fantastic, not only decause of the arrangement and placement but also the lighting and the dynamic. I can almost hear the birds singing in the trees and Ming family slurping buckets full of tea with milk Great job and tell the boys that we are all patiently awaiting this beauty with anticipation of the North and South turning it's skys into flaming avgas and melted cheddar

Thanks guys, and no worries on the impatience. We're looking forward to getting this first one completed and impatience creeps in at our end also. Its all good we'll keep after it.

Booze

The "Horsham" you refer to is a presume "Horsham Saint Faith" , there is another Horsham in Sussex

I'm running out of fingernails, you can nearly see the bone on my left pinkie...

Hey Booze, what happenned to your nice custom fields ? These appear to be from default Slovakia ?

Cheers

Nico

Those screenies are wonderful and hinting of great missions and sorties to be flown in the future.. not so distant future
I feel like a kid with no candy and you 352nd are waiving a huge bag of it infront of my face!

Mmmmmm, good candy, too.

The 1940 BoB version of the map will have the "Slovokia" style airfields. The 43 version will have the newer textured airfields. At least, that is the current plan.

Yes, Horsham Saint Faith.

Hi all, made some good progress this week. Couple shots of Chain Home Radar.

Best regards,
Booze

Booze, those pics are simply gorgeous!!! Didn't think could get any more impatient for these lovely maps in progress but you've done it to me now! Great work mate. S!

+1, just beautiful Booze, take yer time, take yer time

Jeez, i bet even Olegs ass is clenching! :-)

What's he doing to us is it a plot to lure us into selling our first-born for this mod

Sold

Really excellent work on the towers Booze and as usual no pressure but get a move on Avatar told me to tell you <runs away>

Ming

Now, if you could just lean a bicycle against the wall it'll be complete!

Seriously, superb work Booze!!

The Chain Home towers were made by Mr Jolly for my Channel map months ago, and were included in the UI 1.1.

Thanks guys, been going at it hard this week getting things installed, everything is coming along well, thanks for the kind words.

Ming no worry on the first born, these maps are on the house. And are you giving Avatar a hard time?

Ogdens sometimes we decorate up the airflelds and other sites we create when we make the screenshots to post but when you get the map most all the areas will look like the pics above. Just the main structures are there. This way you can decorate them yourselves for each mission or campaigns you create. The bicycle is a nice touch.


And yes the Towers above are from the Public Release of the most recent UI. We appreciate Mr. Jolly releasing them with this version. We actually have our own set created also but we have not yet been successful in getting the 3D converter to work. However we just brought on a new gentleman that is working on this for us. The exciting thing is that over this last week he has already created several new buildings for us for importation into the Channel Map. Most of the new objects are modeled after the Luftwaffe buildings provided to us by JVM. I am really really excited to get these in. Thanks again for JVM for making these available to us. The majority of our team is from the US. We have one member from GB and another from the Netherlands and one from Canada. Its important to us that the airfields on both sides of the map are equally as nice and as accurate as possible so that everyone can choose an airfield to call home should they want, so that is our goal. Thanks again for all your comments.

Best regards,
Booze

well isn't that great - mods should be used right?

Yep, I agree. I was just letting Ming know their provenance.

Hi Joe, i have UI 1.1 but i dont see these new towers i still see the old ones on the channel map. What am i doing wrong?

Thanks Canon, hugely impressive stuff all you modding chaps are creating for us and special thanks to Mr Jolly for building us the biggest WW2 simulator sandbox coffee house on the Internet from Oleg's wonderful legacy. Beat this Armed Assault 2 or even 3 probably

Ming

They hadn't been made when the beta was released. They're part of the final release (which is my current WIP)

Hi all, figured we would just go ahead and post up of some our our new models we have in the works. We have a great 3d modeller working with us now named Champ and he has been kind enough to start putting together several models already for use in our 1940 and 1943-1945 maps. Here are a few examples below. Please note these are a wip and some do not have skins on the yet. The Luftwaffe Hangers and the Machine gun tower are based off of diagrams provided to us from our friend JVM. The towers base is similar to the Chain Home Radar bottom with wire and wood slats on the top piece. Champ has provided us a Tower Bridge, Big Ben and an Eiffel tower as well as other prominent monuments or buildings needed. He has also created custom fitting hangers for the BF-109 and the 110 also based off of diagrams from JVM. We have many many more in progress we hope to have in soon. We're looking to create all new industrial targets as well as Subpens, Marshalling Yards, Oil Refineries and large train depots so just rolling with this to see where it might take us.

The Bodney Admin Hut is special to us because we received the data on this from one of the original members of the 352ndFG. Several of us had the opportunity to attend The Gathering of Mustangs & Legends in Columbus Ohio in 2007 where we were privileged to meet and talk with many of the members of the Group. We were told about this Admin Tower from a wonderful gentleman named Wayne Mark who sat down and told us about what life was like at Bodney airfield. We're still checking to see if this was solely used at Bodney or if it was used at some of the other stations also.

Best regards,
Booze

Simply stunning! Keep up the good work guys!

Something tells me I'll be spending MANY hours flying around this map

Great stuff there Booze. Looking forward to it!

Hi Booze.

This gets more and more impressive with each update.


Wheelsup


(Post # 37)

Marshalling Yards, Oil Refineries and large train depots so just rolling with this to see where it might take us

Northern France, Belgium, Holland I hope

And perhaps a revisiting of Krymskaya, which was a bit disappointing in the original- but look at the glorious terrain possibilities down there with the beach towels

Ming

Thanks all. Ming ya just never know where we all may end up with this sim. At this point we're just hanging on for the ride.

Booze

Booze - Thanks for your efforts to make this game more fun for all of us. Also, and you show the work you are doing on the French side of the Channel as well

Hello Booze, hello everyone!


Beware, the hangars you are showing are not exactly "Luftwaffe" hangars...Those ones are pre-war French hangars and in consequence do not belong everywhere! they were only present in some established French air bases (not all of them)...

For what I know, as far as the BoB area is concerned they were present in Rouen-Boos (a jointed pair, still existing), Amiens Glisy (a jointed pair, gone replaced with modern design), Caen-Carpiquet (2 jointed pairs, gone only concrete base left), Villacoublay Sud (several jointed pairs, probably 4, gone replaced with modern designs, SE of the field)), Rennes St Jacques (2 X 2 jointed pairs, still existing, very easy to spot on GoogleEarth, they are painted white!)...There are many others, but not in the BoB-related area.

As a bonus: a photo of Beauvais-Tillé in 1938 (= BoB!)



JV

JVM, nice to see you, thanks for the breakdown, we'll make sure the hangers make it to their proper locations. And thank you also for the great aerial of Beauvais-Tillé.

X_MAN, appreciate the kind words, we're trying to do our best to get it as close as possible.

Booze

352nd- outstanding work!!!!Although,this does not begin to describe your efforts. I have been to your site and reviewed the WIP. I'm sure you are tired of " diplomatically " answering ,when ?However,just thought I'd ask.

Frequent Flyer thanks. Never get tired of hearing it. Well even though I cannot tell you exactly when, because I do not really know myself, I can say that it will be in the not so distant future for the release of the 1940 map. We are busily reconstructing it as all the pieces are built and applying the new textures. Our original thought was to release it with the Slovakian textures and then we realized how many original textures we had made and decided to use them here also. Its coming along nicely and will post some pics soon.

Many thanks,
Booze

Hurra ! Excellent news ! Thanks for the update and the hard work Booze !

Cheers

Nico

Booze,
Thanks for taking the time to reply. Both maps from what I have scene are stunning.

Ooooh, I so hope release is getting close.. Feed me, feed me 352nd!

Well, seriously, you guyz have to take your time ofcourse. You will not release it until you are happy and satisfied. A great release is much better than a mediocre release.. So please excuse me if I am seeming a bit over eager and excited about getting this map down on my PC and flying it.. cause I sure am eager and excited!

Tease

Yeah! Like this bunch needs any more teasing, huh?

If brown is the new black
Then "it will be in the not so distant future" is the new "2 weeks"

Everything is relative.. So is it AAA "2 weeks" or more like SOW "2 weeks"?

Everything almost

Ming

It's been so silent in this thread for too long.. I've got this feeling we are at the "calm before the storm". Oh please tell me it is so!

I could tell you but then I would have to hit you in the face with a creme pie.....or something.....

Accepted..

Can we get a beta or something I can't take it any more!

Hang in there guys its getting closer. Have not posted anything new recently because we are busily working on the 1940 map. Will post some pics soon. Thanks for asking.

Booze

Thanks for the update..

Hi Guys, hope all is well with everyone. Been a while since we posted anything because we've been busy reassembling airfields. Finished up on Kenley and Manston this weekend and hope to test them tomorrow. Working on Maupertus as we speak. Thanks JVM. Was doing some coastline work today and grabbed a couple shots around Dover.

Best regards,
Booze

Glad to hear it's not toooo far off. Those pics are killing me! Nice work guys.

Beautiful!

Nice Targets

Have to be set to indestructible methinks - three of them are still there today.

You ever noticed "re-spawn"? Kinda mimics the re-build but in game

Point is, the Luftwaffe never succeeded in knocking one down. Disabling the radar station by disrupting the power supply, yes, but the bomb blasts merely passed through the latticework.
No bother to me what happens to them in game - hint ---> ; just letting you know.

Agreed! Targets non the less - and easy to find too.

They were difficult to knock out.. lots of bombs passing harmlessly through the girders.. just because they were big and easy to spot and all that..lol

Looks very good Booze, your team (you) have a real good eye for detail, good on ya mate!

.......I wouldn't say they were industructable.....

Hi guys couple shots of Croydon wip.

Best regards,
Booze

STOP....................FOR THE LOVE OF GOD MAN!!!!

Amazing realistic perspective. This will be such a pleasure to fly over.

Croydon, town of my birth, thanks so much for the beautiful rendition :-)

Wow! Very impressed with Croydon, heaven knows what that's going to do to framerates on my PC. You keep going, I'll upgrade!

Booze and 352nd map crew; You have to stop teasing.. you are making me sick!

Such prefect colours and signs of wear on the ground textures.
This will be a joy.

Enough praise- back in front of the PC with you!!! We NEED this.

No.. keep the pictures coming lads, they are much appreciated and help us understand just what fantastic work you lot are achieving...

Hi all, airfields and textures this week. Couple of shots from across France.

Best regards,
Booze

DAMM Booze, that looks great!

Excellent as usual Booze! Thanks for the preview.

Nice teaser!

SOMEWHERE IN OCCUPIED FRANCE

Those armour units aren't on holiday!

Thanks for the delicious update Booze, very nice

Ming

Well now.. I think that can be debated compared with units "somewhere in occupied Soviet union"

I'd just like it if I could occupy that map, Booze get with it lad...;)

PARTLY OCCUPIED RUSSIA

Big place

'Occupied France' has a special resonance to it to an English or Welsh ear, is why I mentioned it, more frisson

Ming

Somewhere in France...soon to be discovered by a flight of tree-top height Mossies!!

LOL, you guys are a hoot!!! Thanks!!

Booze

Not soon enough for my liking!!

*reaches forward from the back seat and tugs Booze on the shoulder


"are we there yet?"

And dad replies, "DON'T MAKE ME STOP THIS CAR OR THERE"S GOING TO BE BIG TROUBLE MISTER"

Looking good Booze.

Wheelsup


(Post # 52)

Love the screenshots Booze, the map's lookin' real bonza mate

Cheers, Neil

He's from Australia

Probably

Ming

Hi Neil, thanks for the comments and great to see ya!

Booze

Hi all a couple shots from last nights testing session. We have a lot of land adjustments going on this week, here a couple wip shots. Still adjusting elevations.

Best regards,
Booze

This is though to take... I hope I can keep it together and continue to wait for all this goodness you guys are doing... must hang on... I must!

BTW, thanks for the update!

Come on 352ndBooze admit it- you are really Oleg Maddox and his design team working under aliases, and the screen shots are from your soon to be released Storm of War (two weeks for sure).

I can't take the suspense any more

P.S

Nice work

Very nice, booze !!!

Man those cliffs look absolutely fantastic ! Excellent job on those !

Cheers

Nioo

Excellent shots Booze.
Those cliffs are amazing.


Wheels


(Post # 71)

Minor observation, the cliffs don't look steep enough to me, IRL they are near vertical. In fact at the base of the cliffs they are undermined by the waves.

Sorry to nitpick but I live on the South coast & see 'em nearly every day!

Gnasher, I think there are limitations in the game's code that don't allow the creation of truly vertical cliffs.

Unfortunately they can't make them any more vertical Gnasher.
From my understanding it has something to do with the game limitations.
It is a compromise they are stuck with at this time.

If I am wrong I am sure Booze will be along to correct me or explain it better to you.

Wheelsup


(Post # 72)

If the elevations were as in the real cliffs we wouldn't have had such good fps and fast map-loading times on our earlier computers. Swings and roundabouts you know all about them down there on the Coast I bet. Proper sharp-edged and vertical white cliffs, SoW:BoB. Won't be long now. In geological terms obviously, say half an era feels like

Ming

Someone want to translate Ming into some form of English? He is not usually this babelfishalisious....but dang....thats not fair on a monday man =)

LOL!

Models of cliffs and anything else are made from vertexes, the dots that joined up make the model: each point has a position in the X axis, a position in the Y axis, a position in the Z axis. Maybe up to six bytes/point or eight for military SatNav (something like that, high resolution points on the map being the idea, 10m resolution and so on)

Oleg's cliffs are not created directly (from what meagre info one can gather) by using a database of XYZ points, the matrices are generated by the various shades/colours on a map/terrain image. Bit like bump-mapping where lighter shades may represent higher spots on the model's elevation. Maps are a big bumpmap, good compromise for speedy loading and rendering on older computers, not so many XYZ points in a map's dataset (hard drive space, memory footprint) for the terrain net but then a less sharply-defined object results: rolling edges. Think of the complex wireframe underlying realistic cliffs and think how many XYZ points there would need to be for just realistic white cliffs. Oleg will come up with something <cross fingers>

Look at the city in GTA4 if you want to see a render engine handling the numbers of vertexes that we're going to need for realistic white cliffs and proper riverbanks in SoW:BoB. There's millions of em quite liderally I shouldn't poptastically wonder </Nicey>

Basic cube object, 8 points, XYZ vertexes

White Cliffs, 500,000 points and that's only a half-mile east and west of Dover Harbour

All your dataset are belong to us </Gothic>

Oh no you don't Adolf we have calculators and we're not afraid to use them!

Ming

Thanks Ming.

Wheelsup


(Post # 73)

I understood the first Mingthing better than the second one...

Watch out Ming must have "got sum" last night

BTW, B-E-A-UUUtiful shots Booze, Booze where did you get that moniker, don't worry me man

Hi guys, thanks for the great answers! Gnasher everything my friends here say is true to answer your question. However this is a really great game engine IMHO and everyday we are learning new things so we're gonna keep working on those cliffs as we go and see where we end up. Thanks for asking.



®uger noone has ever asked me that before but it goes back about 9 years ago to a game called Desert Storm that I used to play with my son. He was 11 or 12 at the time and every other Friday night we would pull an all nighter playing video games, or until we fell asleep with the XBOX controllers in our hands. But on the weekends I occasionally enjoy a couple glasses of red wine especially on a friday night after commuting home from Washington DC. Anyway I always used to use my regular name in the game while playing against my son until he informed me that I had to come up with something "Cooler" to be able to game online. Ohhhhhh, so that was the night Sgt. Booze was born. He looked at me, rolled his eyes and said you're drinking red wine Dad that doesn't coun't. He is older now and does not have time to game with the Old Man any longer so when I signed up with the 352nd I kept it because it brings with it alot of good memories for me. I changed it from Sgt. Booze to just Booze because 1st Lt. Sgt. Booze just didn't sound right.

Best regards,
Booze

That's cool Booze. Nice story.... and great memories for you. Cheers! (with a glass of wine of course)

Guys,

I did say it was a MINOR observation, it's no biggy at all, the map looks fantastic!

One thing I would request though is the inclusion of Shoreham airfield in the map. It's the oldest airfield in the UK (since 1910) & had quite a war record as a Tangmere satelite & emergency recovery airfield. During WW2 it was home to a RAF SAR sqn & the FFAF so isn't heavily recorded in alot of literature. Also it was the site of the the 1st RAF kill during BoB proper (Adler Tag onwards) so for SAR & FFAF purposes it's very relevant, several B26's & a B17 made emergency landings there. It's also been used in numerous films/TV series (Tenko, Da Vinci Code etc). It was also the 1 friendly airfield used by Clostermann after downing 2 FW190s!

Here's a pic of the BF109 downed on Adler Tag, you can see the Hangars & control tower in the background (There's a railway line in between) :-



BTW Shoreham is also the venue for the official RAFA BoB Airshow nowadays, I can post pics if anyone's interested.

This really looks beautiful, but I have to ask. (Sorry, I didn't read through 34 pages...) Will this scenery mod come with some/any campaigns? Will it be for online flying only? I am asking this in a very nice way.... Not trying to be rude or anything like that. Just wondering... I have the 4.09 beta patch, yet, there are only a couple missions that guys wrote using it... (or maybe I am looking in the wrong place?)

Jim

Awesome story Booze, you sound like a MAN much like myself, yes I live in those memories too, not a bad thing. I hope that you didn't think that I was implying anything by what I said, I know that we all live to a degree vicariously thru our online persona, Ruger obviously a tough guy eh! But your boy must be very proud to have such a great gaming friend aside from the father that you were and are to him now, we mold our futures in our childred. Trust me when I say that at any time in my gaming past I could have had the handle 'Beer' I remember at times flying Fighter Squadron till 4 in the morning and having to close one eye to play. Cheers my friend and keep up your great work, both fantasy and reality work

And of course along with Shoreham no depiction of West Sussex would be complete without Wisborough green

Don't forget the NAAFI canteen or the CO's dog.. not forgetting the urinals that never work in hut 17.. oh, nearly forgot, can we have Nellie Parker, the sqn 'bike', as she's always good for morale!

I cant speak on what fields are in or not....I just dont have that info. But to answer the question about campaigns and stuff....

We are going to include at release a set of COOP's that have one mission for each day of the BoB. We have AAR's for each day. We are choosing 1 mission for each day (on days when something happened, some days everyone just watched it rain). Something to bridge the gap between release and when the really good campaign makers get something going.

So get your practice in shooting those little BB's at the Hun, and get used to a carborator'd Spit because Jerry is tough to drop with spitwads.

You guys are doing a fantastic job on getting the channel to look good! I know how much time this takes so i feel a deep respect for the work you guys are doing.

to take down the amount of vertices in a model you can apply LOD maps, atleast i presume IL-2 has the capability to do such a function.

That will be perfect. I noticed that with some of the new maps, as great as they are, finding missions and campaigns for them is hard.

Having the BoB map released with as comprehensive a mission pack as that is very impressive.

We really appreciate what you guys are doing Hookecho

Thanks for the answers!! This really looks like a winner! I am sure there will be some mission builders for "offline" play too. I am sad to say... I never got 'into' online play.

Jim

You can still play Coops offline too, or convert them to single missions.

Ruger no worries my friend, did not think you were implying anything, you just got me thinking and thats hard to do. Seems like such a long time ago to. My kids/adults now (all 3 of them) are playing WoW and they are really into it. But you know how it is you have to make an appointment to see them between college, work and WoW. However they still show up when they hear me throw a couple steaks on the grill.

And we are very fortunate that our entire 352ndVFG squad is involved in helping out with the Cross Channel Map. As Hook said several members are creating missions to go with the map that will be a starter at least for everyone upon release of the map. We're hoping that the community will enjoy it enough that some of the talented Mission/Campaign builders will put some great stuff together.

Booze

For the first time today, I was able to convert a coop mission into a single player and I was successful at it. So, that is good news!!

Jim

or just host your own online mission of 1, and the AI will fill in the slots.....no conversion needed

I know what you're saying Booze, having my own little separation anxiety, but the fud seems to do the trick eh!



I think that the map guys making the missions are going to know best where the spectacular action will be best played, you guys made the map after all. This is great that you guys are doing this for many reasons but primarily because after the installation the first thing I want to do is fly, something wrong with me

three cheers to the team!!! pick-a-pack of firecrackers si-boom-ba, our team, our team ra-ra-ra

@Ruger

Sometimes I spend hours doing just that very thing.....but for other reasons. Booze is such a taskmaster - LOL!!!

Well I'm sure that I am a part of a much larger group when I say will all be very excited to see the working of the minds of yourself and others that are involved in this great project. I'm sure that there is a mutual thrill you all get when you create something new for the map and I would assume that we all are a little A-D-D, like a moth to a flame. I hit my head on the monitor about three times when I first saw your work on the Channel so yeah, I understand Keep up the good work over there and I would gladly buy you all a beer at the local pub if we had one...

Ruger thanks, I'm still laughing. We must be from the same era because I remember that one. Great stuff.

And do not let Oscar fool ya he needs no prompting from me to be working on the map. He is currently putting some final touches on some harbors he created which look really great!

Best regards,
Booze

I used to know how to do this, long ago. Could someone please post the procedure to convert/adapt a Coop Msn to an offline mission?

I am not an On-liner, though I tried it out for a few weeks Years Ago..it was just not my cup of tea. What would be the difference in 'play' between a 'converted Coop' offline and flying the coop with a 'crew' of just me,+AI, on-line?

I wasn't even close Booze, oh well it's only been about 45 years since I saw this... (@ 6min)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tYPdTytB...PL&index=18

For this team I like mine better, get to work Oscar

Doolittle Raider:


It was pretty easy. I hope you understand my directions. You will FIRST need to know where the COOP mission is located in your IL2 game. After you know where it is at, start the game and:

Open the Full Mission Builder

Then, in the upper left corner,

click on FILE, then,

click on LOAD and this will take you to the folders where the missions are located. Click on the folder where your mission is at that you want to change.

Open that folder and select the "Name_of_Mission.mis file" and click OPEN and then your mission will load showing the map and all the 'flights' on it. To zoom in, use the scroll button on the left side of the map.

So, all you need to do now is CLICK on one of the aircraft. You will see red and blue lines. CLICK on one of the ROUND DOTS and then, you line will start to blink. Go to the top of the page and click on VIEW, then, OBJECT. NOW you need to click on the bar that says SHOW. This will show you the aircraft you have selected. IF this is the aircraft you want to fly, then, click on the word PLANE and CHECK the box that says, PLAYER. Click on the word FILE in the top, and RENAME the mission to anything you want and SAVE. OR... you can just hit the PLAY button after you select FILE and then, you will FLY the mission you just convereted from a COOP to a Single player. EASY... It took me longer to type this than actually "fixing" a COOP mission to a playable SP mission.

Good Luck!!

Jim

Thanks for the detailed instructions...many will benefit from reading them. I do that in FMB for various missions, changing which aircraft I will fly (bomber or escorting fighter, for example, or wingman versus lead fighter, etc).

I can see now that there is no other way to change COOP to Single offline mission other than going into FMB...time consuming before each/every mission, but will do the job.

I'm wondering...if we were to ask very nicely...if the group building the coops could "produce" two versions of each of their missions as they build them. Once the mission is built, it seems they could save it as COOP, then open an aircraft track and designate it as Player Piloted, then save it as the Single Player Offline Mission version. The package of Offline Single Player Missions could then be made available along with the COOP set of missions.

The only major problem with converting the forthcoming BofB COOPs to SP's ourselves,in FMB, is that when one opens a COOP in FMB, one can't avoid seeing the entirety of the planned/projected action, even with just a cursory glance, which would include location/tracks of enemy aircraft, potentially spoiling any surprises written in by the COOP Mission builders.

So...COOP BofB builders, would that be possible to crank out two versions, COOP and SP?? Please??

Why not just play the coop offline, then you can select any plane in the mission without all that fmb stuff.

hi - any hint as to when this wonderful looking map might come out?

after a massive struggle (i made it harder than it was) i finally managed to download AAA's unified installer this weekend to begin playing on the spits v 109s mods server. it's absolutely fantastic. the battles in the mk I spit over the channel are great. i highly recommend to all.

Two weeks

Starting when

Ming

Do not say two weeks

Ming

Okay. Be sure.

K...three weeks.

I just did the same last night.. downloaded. This evening I'll be trying install and joining WoP's Spit vs. 109 mod server.. hope to see you there in my 109 E1'a sights this evening

OT: So Compans announced is doing some new skinning for a new chanel map due soonish.. Can't be other than this one huh?!?! Please tell me this is so!!! I've been biting my lip and refraining from nagging this thread to pieces with "got to have it now.. " "please release" "is there a release date".. But now I've just had it and the blood taste in my mouth is some thing I'd like to end!!! Come on 352nd map gurus -> make my day.. my week.. my year!

(never ever take me seriously.. gawd knows my wife learned that in a few days and by son too!)

Keep it up, Lacrits, that way I won't have to.

If it's going to be either map I would bet Compans would have more insight into Canon's map that this one, but that's just my own speculation based on nothing more than casual observation.

Hate to spoil the '2 weeks...be sure' mood here but I'm no more clued in than anyone else at this point. Looking forward to both maps myself...they'll both have different unique qualities. Must admit I'm looking forward to some long haul missions to Holland. I started designing a 1942 campaign, got 4 missions in and realized I should wait. That gives me plenty of time to work on the skins though. The Hurri one I just released took months!

S! Comp

I'm confused. Maybe someone could help by explaining the current State of Affairs regarding:

There is a Channel Map now...I think called a 'Beta channel'...I think by Canon??? Which i believe I am using and have just completed an excellent "Biggin Hill" Campaign.

There is a map being built by Canon (with Compans help???)???

There is the map being discussed in this thread, "The other Channel Map"

Any help for an old and 'slow' guy? Thanks

DoolittleRaider - I asked the same question

S!. I'll tell you what I know. Yes, Canon made the Beta Channel map and is working on a newer much nicer (in his words) version of that map. Compans helped with the textures a bit but I don't think much else regarding the map. (please correct me if I'm wrong Compans!) and the 352nd guys are making a separate Channel make (referenced in this thread) that is a 1:1 scale and is therefore larger than Canon's map, which I think is a 2:3 scale if memory serves. We're all anxiously waiting for both of these maps to be released as they are all working extremely hard on them and putting a lot of attention to detail into them. Will be great fun!!! Hope that helps.

Yes I produced the textures for the map. Cannon has designed a whole world in there though. Both maps look excellent...choice is no bad thing!


S! Comp

And a fine job at that Compans I agree with the consensus here that both maps will be welcomed by the community and both will have differences that add to their individual charm, I'll have them both for sure...

Hi all just wanted to let you know we're still kicking and work on the Cross Channel Map is still progressing. Last couple of weeks we've been working on adding/adjusting land elements and textures as well as tides and swamps. 352ndOscar has built some really beautiful Harbors which I'll try and post a couple pics over this weekend. Plus we have a host of new surprises in store. Unvbelievable what you can come up with after 5 cups of coffee.

Best regards,
Booze

Maybe some Easter Bunny 3D-objects Booze?
Looking forward to some more frustrating teaser screenies soon!

Looking forwrad to the screenies!

Truly unbelievable, whats going on here. I have a question. Will it be possible to use this map as, let's say, an Eighth Air Force map, or will that come later? I assume there will be some large airfields that Forts and Libs can use. As an Eighth Air Force squadron, I'm sure you guys have planned for that stage of the war, too.

Lacrits not sure about the 3D Bunnies way to much work to clean up after.

Pooch thanks for asking yes we already have in the works a 1943 - 1945 version that will be our 2nd release after the Battle of Brittain Map. It will be on this same map just updated with all the 8th AF airfields as well as updated Luftwaffe airfields. You can preview a few of them on the 352ndVFG website and we will post pics here in this wonderful Forums also as we progress along.

Best regards,
Booze

Bump Any news?

He keeps bumping it, I keep getting excited as it pops up if I can say that in mixed company. Someone have a word with him

Don't stop though, I can take it. The bumping not the popping up

Ming

"just a small town girl" "Dooooon't stop, believvvving, hold on to that feeeeeling" RRRRRIPPPP frisby...

Can't speak for Booze, but, we are in the process of doing the final placing of the bases on the map - so far, Manston, Croydon, Kenley, Biggin Hill, Middle Wallop, Boscombe Down, Debden, Tangmere are in - many, many more are built and are sitting in the queue. Most of the map conturing work is done (maybe a little tweaking just before release). The ports of Le Harve, Portsmouth, Southampton, Boulougne, Calais, Dunkerque have been added to those of Dover and Cherboug. We are also finalizing the texture set. Some modders have been engaged to produce some objects for the map. The Coop BoB Mission Pack continues to be tested and tweaked. Probably more but its a big project to bring this together - especially when its being done in our 'spare' time - if there is such a thing.

We do know how you all like screenshots, so I'll put a bug in Booze's ear to get you something to tide you over.

352nd Map Team

LOL, yes thanks for the bug Oscar will get some new screenies up in the next couple of days. I apologize for being so long in between screenshots all but the last 2 weeks has been filled with activity working on the map and we all have been doing just that. Much progress has been made and lots of new developments. Please hang in there as we progress along and will have some new shots up in the next day or so.

Best regards,
Booze

I'll take this one Tbag

Ming

I really like the updates on this project. I think this map will do wonders for the community. In conjuction with the AAA Mod, WOW!

Thanks Oscar and Booze!

Ming, I didn't think about the possible side effects of bumping

Taking this opportunity to bump the thread and.. well.. Booze.. do you remember this post above?

You edited out the 'but don't quote me...' bit

Ming

Nope Ming, I edited in the "rolling eyes" smiley cause I thought it fitting to the "banging head to the wall" smiley; Booze on the left of the wall and me on the other

I edited in the "rolling eyes" smiley

I don't see that

Are you just bumping this thread for an update

If so I've been the unwitting victim of a conspiracy

Ming

LOL, sorry guys, will put a couple up this evening, lacrits don't want you to get a headache. We promise we've been busy assembling the map.

Booze

Assembling?!? We want to hear finishing!

Looking forward to the update.

Ming, somehow I doubt that you can ever be an "unwitting" victim ... of anything.

Just say "two weeks" and his world crumbles, oh yeah!!!

Hi all, couple of pics of North Weald wip, will have some other airfield pics soon, trying to keep all the balls up in the air,

Booze

Awesome pics Booze, good luck with keeping your balls aloft..lol

Cheers, Neil

Well I've said it before Booze "stunning" I can't think of a better term for your work If you stand on your head.......never mind, you probably already that trick

Thanks Booze! Really nice and wow a huge airfield there.. I just got a thought of modelling in a Lotus 7 and putting it in so I could drive around that airfield and do some power slides.. Wait, oh yeah.. this is a flight sim.. Really looking forward to this map.. may it soon be available..

<fireworks display oohs and aahs>

Very nice airfield Booze thanks for the update!

Ming

Question for the 352nd Mod Team - Are you guys working on both maps concurrently? Just asking a question and this is just for my information (...I am not getting impatient)
My crack unit of Fw 190A-3s are awaiting orders to patrol the channel from the Circuses and Rodeos of '42! When the Empire Struck Back!

From the looks of some of those larger airfields, I don't see why we couldn't go ahead and use this map for later war scenerios, too. Those hardened runways will certainly handle Thunderbolts and Mustangs, and they seemlong enough to accomodate Forts.
And X-Man, I'm sure there are fields on the continent that can operate 190's.
Least, I hope so.

Wonderful work - the airfields are sooo much better than anything we have at present. Not being nit picky - to me there seem to be a few too many pointed northern pine type trees for southern England. Otherwise absolutely fantastic work. Pointy trees or not I will probably live on this map when it sits in my computer. Brilliant work everyone. I am envious of your skill, dedication and time that you are devoting to this.

RedToo.

Reply for X_Man:

While we are concentrating on completing the 1940-BoB version, a lot of the prep work is being done for the late war map as well just by the nature of the work we do on this map. Much like the Slot maps, there will be changes "over time" to facilities, etc. So, you may see a base look one way in the BoB version, but be upgraded or changed in the Late War version - as it would have been. Or, know a base was located at some place on the map that doesn't exist at the time of BoB, but appears later as a part of turning the British Isles into a veritable floating aircraft carrier.

Reply for RedToo:

When someone breaks the 'code' for those treelines, trust me, we'll integrate some White Pine, English Oak and Elm into the mix.

Thanks for the reply Oscar, I had no idea that the treelines were fixed.

RedToo.

Oscar_352nd - Thanks for the reply and more importantly for the eloquent reply to RedToo's statement. I am sure you played out several different versions in your head before you choose the one you went with.

Greetings all, working on Duxford this weekend, here are a couple wip shots.

Booze

Yeah...go ahead and dangle it in front of our faces, and then yank it away, laughing.
Sadist!

WOW! nice shots Booze, did you guys mod those blimp hangers? Duxford looks like it's been quite an undertaking for you but you sure pulled it off well.

Airfields were always one of the weakpoints of this sim. This stuff is making it so incredibly immersive!

Thanks for the update Booze!

Nice! Thanks for the added tease.

great work, but this is taking years and the hard labor seems to have no end in sight

why not release an initial version of this map with just the main coastal airfields, so we can start using it ? more rear located airfields and additional bases can then later be added in a 2e version of the map to make it more complete.

I'm not usually one to ask for beta's, but in this case I think it would be a sensible choice to release the map in stages. If the map were of a smaller area, I'd say wait until it's done though.

Very nice screenies!!!
.. as some one said, it would be great to get a first taste of this map soon. I am dying to fly it!

as some one said, it would be great to get a first taste of this map soon

That was you and I quote

Ming

And the natives are getting restless... Okay, down right unruly!

A beta would be nice and I asked for one months ago after supplying some field info and pictures. But this is more a work of art than a procedural process and as a work of art will be only be released by the artist when it is to their satisfaction. This is a good thing and I would recommend to tread lightly with the artist (I was one myself years back) and give them room to breath and create.

Nope.. keep working at it guys. Finish the map first please. I can wait, it'll be worth it!

except that most of us here will never use 75% of the more rear located airfields, its simply to far to fly from them across the channel all the way to france, or to take off from them when we try to scramble quickly when the germans attack england.

the same can be said for the french airfield from where the bosh launches his raids. the coastal ones will be used, and the ones deeper inland will rarely be used.

so why not give us an initial map with the coastal bases for both sides, and we can pound the ibie geebies out of each other while the rest of the map gets completed. this also will allow the campaign and mission creators to get cracking on the new map

we are in dire straights for some new life into the old il2 horse

As much as it surprises me, I'm with the patient crowd. Let them finish the map ad release it when it's done. Why would we want to simply be amazed when we could get blown away ?

One of the reasons I'm being so patient is that the first thing I'll do when this map is released is jump in a virtual Sptifre or 109 and tour all the places I have lived or know that are on the map. Owing to their pretty rural nature and lack of tactical importance, these places will probably be the last to be included in the map...

Cheers

Nico

Will a hand full of M&M's work, I mean just for the time being

Quess we better feed the squirrels...........

Duxford looks mouth-watering. Thanks Booze. (I feel like I just thanked this bottle next to me)

Great work on the maps and tantilizing screen shots!

[facetious]The bases look a little too tidy. We need some litter objects - beer cans, cigarette butts, brambles and nettles growing up around the hangers, and such like. Its OK. We can wait.[/facetious]

~Flatlander

EDIT PS: Oh and Triffids. Definately we need a Triffid object in FMB.

Actually, we do have the Triffids. We've domesticated them somewhat and keep them well secured in a facility just north of Leicester. The MoD has a special section organized to train them and polish their combat tactics so they can be used in an upcoming Special OP against the "Fatherland".

LOL, you guys are a hoot. Thanks for all the kind words. Remember we are building the shell, its up to you all to get it dirty.

And yes Oscar I had to look it up. Triffids - The triffid is a highly venomous fictional plant species, the titular antagonist from the 1951 novel The Day of the Triffids by John Wyndham

Booze

I live in Leicester... I'm also in the military.. I know nothing, and you haven't seen me.. Right!

If we are to have Triffids then we might as well add giant hogweeds.
"Long ago in a Russian field
A Victorian explorer found
The regal hogweed by a marsh
He captured it and brought it home."

Odd, just heard that song on the radio...

comparing this project with some of the screenshots from the newly released ww-1 sim (RoF), i am amazed at how much better the screenshots from this il2 project look.

kudos to whomever found a way to improve the terrain textures, the scenery looks like a major step forward in realism


are we there yet ?

If I have to stop this car....



Wheelsup


(Post # 147)

At last, a motorway service station. No one drinks anything this time suck a pebble or something

Ming

I am a bit curious about how this map displays villages.
We have a lot of maps in Il2, but what strikes me is that there is an awful lot of farms and fields, but very few villages and urban areas..... I mean where do the people live?

Are small towns and villages represented on this map?.. or do we have just thousands of individual fields with some larger housed areas?

I do recognize the difficulty with too many objectss and such , just curious.

Hi Klunk thanks for asking, yes we have them, many of them, and we have intentionally not displayed any towns or Cities yet because its going to be a surprise. We also realize that there is a balance we need to achieve to keep the great playability in the map. So what you will be seeing is that balance and the continued growth from the BoB map into the 43-45 map and beyond.

Best regards,
Booze

Towns and Cities.....this is very good news.

Hi all, hope all is well. Couple recent pics.

Best regards,
Booze

Good God man! That shot of the shipyard is so damn neat! You guys have got the mapping and structures down pat Booze, K release it!

Every new screen shot is a treat.

Freakin' amazing shots and work! Every time I don't think I could get any more impressed with your work I get corrected... Well done 352nd team!!! I also didn't think I could feel any more impatient about getting my grubby little hands on this map but there you go, proved wrong again!!

Thanks for sharing the pics Booze! I do hate you for being able to fly on that map ya know. Of course I mean that in the nicest of ways.

That's a massive number of chimneys for Gravesend. The cement works were all out to the west at Northfleet and Greenhithe, and had one big tall chimney each rather than lots of stumpy ones. And all the houses round about had grey roofs because they were covered in cement dust that had solidified in the rain. No one ever hung washing out in Greenhithe!

I think one of the best selling points of what these chaps have done is that it's not all pristine with a fresh coat of paint. The buildings actually look lived in and used, perfect amount of 'stank'

The buildings shown in these pics are actually a blend of default FB objects, Slovakia buildings, and a couple items from LAL_RONE's 'Hangars' pack. But I agree, it looks fantastic !

Cheers

Nico

Great screenshots as always Booze.


Wheels

Good bump there Wheelsup.. been long time no new. Yeah.. nice screenies.. I want more!

Well no screen shot today but will say getting closer. We've adopted the "a little less talk and alot more action" stance.

Booze

Good on ya team, keep up the good work!

352nd is in the building

Ming

I figured you guys wouldn't mind but I stickied the topic.

I'm interested in it too.

Hi Tom, thanks, we don't mind at all. Will put some new screenshots up soon. We've had a big push recently and have been working very hard adapting some new things to the map.

Best regards,
Booze

No more hunting it down.


Wheels

Yeah, no more scrolling to the middle of page one

Cool Tom, this is a great idea, glad I thought of it

Middle of page one ®uger.
Good grief I didn't realise I had been scrolling that far..
No wonder it took so long to find it.


Wheels

I know......really! bout wore me out Wheels...

I don't mean to rain on the parade but when is it going to be finished?

To quote the lastest information from their site.
"Soon....."

Not being a jerk they just aren't sure yet either.


Wheelsup

are we there yet ?

Don't make dad stop the car!!!

Bump

Wheelsup

I have to ask Booze, I hope that this isn't a can of worms for you. But, have you ever posted your progress over at AAA, do you intend to? Is this a subject that you would rather not answer at this time? Where's Ming?

®uger not a problem my friend, no can of worms. Actually back in the beginning a gentleman named ClockWatcher and I started the very first Channel Map over at AAA and we had a pretty good thread going there. Unfortunately things happened, there was a falling out and politics got involved and the map team thought it best to go independant on the project so we moved all of our stuff over to the 352ndVFG website and have been there ever since. Its been good and bad but we are still moving along nicely with the maps. Not as quickly as most would like but moving along nicely. We have had days like this where we wish there was more help, but all is good. AAA has some really talented people over there and have produced some really great stuff and I certainly wish them continued success. Many of the members are kind enough to still keep in touch with us on a daily basis so for that we are greatful.

And have not seen Ming all day, wonder what he's in to?

Best regards,
Booze

Where do you think?.. In the Sqn bar again drinking pink gin..

Thanks for that reply Booze, sometimes this can be a touchy subject. I do know that there have been a few departures from AAA by some modders for whatever their reason. I was just curious for no other reason as to why I haven't seen you or the map there, such talent usually ends up there. It's almost as tho AAA has the market cornered to a degree but I'm all for the independents that want to create on their own without outside influences. Good on ya mate, I hope that everything comes together the way you want it......................... without the pressures of the 'gimmes'

"pink gin"??? that has to be an umbrella drink or I don't think Ming will have any of it!

If you are British you will know what 'pink gin' is all about... certainly not an umbrella drink, and it was the drink of choice in the mess after an extremely hot and dusty patrol.. As soon as my patrol report was completed I always used to take my veh commanders straight to the bar to have a long one with lots and lots of ice.. lovely!

I've never really been a fan of gin, pink.......hell yeah!

Hi all here are a couple Late War map updates with the new Kevinp roads Mod.

Booze

Ming has been spending his time with Rise Of Flight. Seems to be really into it. Still waiting for my copy.
Uh, while we're on the subject of waiting.................

Booze, I didn't want to have to be the one to tell you this but, there has been a conspiracy. Yes it's true and every time you fall for it, myself and a few others purposely take this thread off topic to lure you into posting new pictures. Don't feel bad, we are an advanced unit, specially trained in forum subversion tactics, you're not the first to fall prey. As you see, we never fail, we like the new screenies and appreciate them lots, we have control and expect more will follow, don't fight it, we are in control, cheers

more likely "Rise of Beer Foam" or "Pinky Out, Pinky Down" the new manly stool challenge

Holly cow!
Custom objects too?

I can't hardly begin to tell you how GLAD I am that you guys do NOT use those horrific "photorealiostic" textures. I do appreciate the mapmakers work - believe me - too bad they spoil it all with texturelayers of utter ...... sorry I just get carried away when I see work which is in other aspects excellent and the destoyed by the notion that textures from sattelite images makes a good looking map...

Your's is.... quite frankly beautful! (don't tell my mrs that I define a piece of polygons and such as beautiful .... it might lead to ugly consequences )

Ahhhh, ok ®uger now I see your diabolical plan. Pretty slick. My head hurts now. LOL!! Your advanced unit is good!

Klunk thanks for the compliment, not sure if its beautiful, but we're trying our best. And your secret is safe with us, no mention to the Mrs.

Booze

Actually very cool shots Booze, I'm also glad that you guys considered the domestic side of rural Englang during the war, gives it the homey touch...

I think it is time to change the title of this thread; remove the word "other" and use capital THE Channel map

As the 'horrific' photorealistic texture maker you're probably refering to in your post above Klunk I'd like to say that you're very welcome to your opinions. I think the map in this thread looks truly excellent and I'm looking forward to using it. However, variety is no bad thing and Cannon's map looks amazing too and will be much used as well. I don't see our hobby as a competition, nor an excuse to insult others' hard work. There's room for everyone here. I don't regard anyone else's work as a threat and I'm sure the guys at 352nd feel likewise. Vive la difference!

S! Comp

Sorry Compans if I hurt anyones feelings. "Horrific" might be an unsuitable word. As you probably read my post you also saw that I wrote that I appreciated the work and also called it "in other aspects excellent". I can't see how that is insulting.
Canon's map ( the one we use in the community which is now called Beta) is much appreciated by anyone, also by me (again). It is excellent work (again) and I am sure his upcoming map will have an even higher standard.
BTW, I didn't even have this map in mind. You just assumed it.

I am not referring to ANYONE, I am referring to what I have seen.
I have no clue what textures you have done Compans, I only refer to some screenshots from different recent maps. If those are by you I have no idea.

However, I still have the opinion that cropped sattelite pics for textures in in general looks flat, and inferior to these ... some textures even really really bad. Sorry but I do and though it came out harsh, I AM glad they do not use it on this map.

Hmm how do you get the impression that I think it is a competition? I think you overanalysze my input and opinion, but I do apologize if I used a word that you found insulting.

Vive la difference and freedom to express an opinion about it

Holy cr@p, I've forgotten to comment on the latest Booze-pics!!!

.. Great screenies, it's ready.. now release!

The real problem about textures is not how you make them, but how well you blend them together. The way each texture is laid out on a map is what really makes a difference : avoiding of repetitions, realistic riverbanks and cities... There are some great maps out there which are utterly ruined for me in some areas because the maker just applied the same texture across wide, flat areas.

This is actually the only grudge I have against photorealistic textures, which are otherwise very good me thinks : they feature lots of small 2D villages and farms which can easily create very noticeable repetition patterns. I've been slowly working on removing them on Compans' textures, also creating new tiles from his textures by rotating them or adding new fields to break up the patterns. Might release those one day when I'm happy with the result, and with their original author's permission of course.

This is something I'm really interested in with this map and would like to see more pics of. Though the airfields look absolutely stunning, it seems to me that the fields textures could use some more blending. Look at the fifth pic from the top in Booze's latest batch of screens : you can see a field pattern repeating itself quite noticeably at least four times over an area roughly the size of the airfield. This is not the first time I've noticed this in Booze's pics.
In most of these pics, the camera is probably no higher than just a couple meters high, but the higher you'll fly, the more obvious these repetitions will be, which would be a pity on a Western Front map where combat altitudes were generally pretty high.
With regards to repetitions, Compans' photorealistic textures can really go both ways : some of his textures will create noticeable repetitions (FrenchFields) while others, because they are so dense, (BOBfields) will conceal them.

Mapmakers need to find the right balance and stop focusing on the textures themselves but rather on how to create believeable scenery with what they have at their disposal.

Cheers

Nico

U might have a point there VB. Also I guess it's a matter of textures blending in on the overall "graphical design" of the game ... that some parts are "photo realistic" whilst others are not, such as cloucs, objects, airplanes.... it makes a non-consistant impression; for me anyway. What I like with the textures I have seen on these maps is that the colour scheme and "cleaness" blends in naturally in the game. They don't collide with the graphical impression of the game

I understand what you mean Klunk. In that regard, Compans' textures make sense in the greater scope of his overall work in the sim, his aircraft skins blending very nicely with the photorealistic landscapes. One problem that seems to persist in his and other's photrealistic textures is the different colour levels in each batch, due to original pictures quality or season during which they were taken, causing different sets of photorealistic textures to look weird when used simultaneously on the same map.

Booze, how did you go about the job of creating the Map-t file ? I know it can be pretty time consuming and difficult due to the greyscale format of the files, but I have a little technique which allows to create varied Map_T layouts in just a few clicks. It may require a slight edit of the load.ini to assign some of the most repeating textures to slots where they'll be less obvious, and some fine tuning in some areas, but the effort/result ratio is pretty unbeatable.
I'll stop here as I believe SimHQ policy on Mods only allows me to discuss the matter this far

Cheers

Nico

Hi Compans very nice to see you, hope all is well and you are having a nice summer.

Guys we totally respect everyones opinions and are glad to have everyones interest and input. But perhaps it would be better if we kept everything at a level where we do not say anything that might be a negative please. We welcome any and all constructive criticism regarding our map and are always open to suggestions. I am personally a Big Big Fan of Compans skills his work is wonderiful IMHO and we would be using them ourselves if we were going in that direction but our map Team decided a different plan which is good because now everyone will have 2 very different maps to use. There is no competition, there is no choosing, everyone can have both. And if you do not like one or the other we promise noone will show up at your house and force you to fly them. The reason for us putting up screenshots is because we are taking a journey so to speak and wanted to have those who were interested take it with us and to help us get opinions and imporvements along the way. The last thing we want to do is cause arguments or have anyone feel bad, our intentions were for this to be a positive thing for all. So as a personal favor to us we request that we all take everyones feelings into consideration before we hit the Submit button and we all play nice please.

Nico I would love to see what little technique you are using. We are still working on texture placement but have not totally nailed down all of our textures yet. We have close to 100 new textures we have made but are still testing, so I'm very interested in hearing what you are using.

Many thanks,
Booze

Not trying to hijack this thread but by all means release them. I should say that producing my textures is not just a simple matter of taking sattelite images and making a tile out of them. There is much editing, pasting and colour/tone transformation that goes on. A very lengthy process. I feel that my tiles do work together and are designed as such, with the exception of the last 3 French tiles I've produced which are seasonally different to the previous ones.
I agree that they don't work perfectly with some game objects, but my philosophy is to improve things and other people will improve objects, houses etc...and the game'll catch up.


S! Comp

Spoken in real standup fasion!!

Update anyone?

The map team is working hard to overcome a couple of difficult build issues; the solutions are very close. Once the issues are overcome the rest of what remains unfinished should be easy and the road to release downhill. At least, we hope so.

Well if I can wipe the sweat off anyone's head, let me know

Hi all, been doing some country work this weekend.

Booze

Wheels

This would be nice for my summervacation.

Good looking!

Lookin' good Booze! Hope things are going more smoothly for you guys. S!

What one second! Do I see street lights?

Hi X-MAN I learned that light trick just yesterday from 352ndOscar our Guru of all things FMB. Its a light pole and one of the ground lights that you elevate by doing the following.

Instructions from 352ndOscar below.
Place the light
Go To ZOOM MODE (enter key)
Hold down the F4 key
Select light object with mouse,
Push and pull mouse to raise and lower light object holding the right mouse button and F4.
Should work ok
You will have to ‘zoom’ in on the object to work with it – that’s for sure.
Problem is, it is VERY touchy and you will experience a lot of aggravation if you’re doing something like ‘headlights’. If you are doing something like rafter lighting then it’s a lot easier.
If you have to have multiples, then set the first one like you want it - in zoom mode - then insert another – in zoom mode – and it will be exactly like the first one. Repeat as many times as you need.

Lots and lots of possibilities with this effect.

Best regards,
Booze

Nice images. I must admit, my enthusiasm for this has lessened a great deal over the last few months. It's still exciting and all. But more in an abstract sort of way. Like when looking at town-planners concept sketches of the future. Still exciting, but I'll be much older and will probably have moved on by the time it gets here.

Hi Feathered, thanks for your comments and I appreciate your position. I have to admit I also have those days when I'm working on the map and wonder will I have an abundance of ear hair developing by the time we finish this project? It sometimes seems like a never ending journey. We are all working on the map every day but there is alot of ground to cover and there is just alot to do, but we're doing our best with the time we have available in between real life. We cannot give you a date as of yet but we are getting closer to a release of the first map, so perhaps once that comes out I hope it may renew some of your lost enthusiasm. But even if not we always welcome your visits and appreciate your comments.

Best regards,
Booze

Well as Booze is much nicer person than I will ever be. Feathered_IV, I think this statement is immature and counter productive.

Let me get this straight, you are less excited about this project because a team of people that apparently have real lives (jobs, families, commitments and other interests outside IL-2 map development) that are doing something at their leisure for the enjoyment of others for ZERO payment have not met your stipulated deadline?

It seems to you have no concept of time management and what a strain such projects have on people. Frankly, I hope you have moved entirely on by the time this map is released and joined a less grateful community. There is no room here for sending our talent (verse common users like you and me)on guilt trips because your parents never taught you virtues like patients and thinking before you speak (or type) because people will judge you by them. Sometimes things take time kid - understand? Now go take out the trash, do your homework or something and let adults be.

Hate to say this after the trouble you apparently went through to put those lights there, but wouldn't streetlights be slightly err... not recommended under a curfew ? I mean with the Blitz and all, wasn't everybody supposed not to leave bright lights on for fear it might help Jerry bombers navigate over England and find their targets ?

Thanks for sharing the trick though ! I remember seeing a static truck with headlights on in a mission I recently played and wondered how the hell that was possible. Now I know

This map is looking better with each update BTW. I too must confess I've lost enthusiasm (compared to the state of near-dementia I was in after I discovered there were two Channel maps in the work ), which is probably better for everybody, cause I'd just loose sleeep over this beauty Now I'm just really really really looking forward to exloring it. I mean really

Cheers

Nico

Wheels

We've faced two really difficult hurdles, both of which brought us to our knees and stopped development until solved.

Recently the most serious of the two was solved. Now ..... just one hurdle more .....

If you think YOU are anxious for this map to be released, consider how anxious the Team is to get it done and off their plate so they can move on to other things .

We've solved the other major problem and things have speeded up considerably. Keep watching for a pleasant announcement. Solving this problem has taken at least a month off of releasing the map.
We're working as fast as we can and we don't see any further developments that will slow us down.

*Opens us big-4ss physics book *

'Chapter IV - Time and Space continuum : How to bend'

Cheers

Nico

Wheels

Ooooooh.. Now I'm getting exited again after a period of trying to ignore posts in this thread.. I am really looking forward to this release!!!

Curse you for ever posting this, and damn my eyes for reading it... I was working on a nightfighters campaign, do you know that ? Yes, it means what you think it means : Now I just have to put lights everywhere... on trucks, on parked planes, on ships...

CURSE YOU !

Cheers

Nico

LOL, Nico, I know what you mean. Its these darn kind of discoveries that keeps you up at night.

Booze

lol!... WWII, the blackout.. ARP wardens.. 'PUT THAT LIGHT OUT!'.. Allowing lights at night anywhere could get you killed.

I know, I know... But do you know if that blackout was enforced everywhere ? I know it may not be historically accurate to have them in the Channel area, but what about the Med ? Lights just look too damn good.

Cheers

Nico

They were enforced everywhere, either the Police or special patrol forces made sure of it. No matter if it was the Med or Channel area.

Ok fine, I'll remove all the lights I put on each Central_Med map city then... Would lighthouses still be OK ? I mean, for obvious reasons...

Cheers

Nico

Mr. V. Barb, Please take a moment to review the nature of the previous comments and consider that they are far less of a consideration than the majority would have it. Please also consider that anything that you do from now and to completion of this project is above reproach and all coments to the contrary may be disregarded as such...

Cheers!

Of course. I had just assumed the blackout rules weren't enforced as strongly in other areas, and placed some lights in cities and such, but I am still trying to make things as historically acurate as I can and therefore dramatically reduced the light signature of most towns and bases. I still learnt a lot placing these lights and got some ideas for other scenarios.
It didn't really feel right to have Malta and Tunis lit up like Christmas Trees in 1943 anyway

Now, if someone could put this thread back on topic with, say, mouth-watering preview pics or updates of some kind

Cheers

Nico

TOTALLY!! gityer butt'n gear Booze

Hang in there, ®uger -- Booze has some surprises to announce. He, and the rest of the team, have been working like dogs, and there's actually some success achieved.

You know I was teasing, I'm the guy at the zoo that makes faces at the baboons and they figure out a way to get me, I think they're smarter that me. Cheers my friend and if I wasn't a patient man my wife would be playing the harp, X 500

Hi all, well we figured it was about time we started bringing in some of our new models to give you a taste of what you'll be flying into. Please remember these are a work in progress. Special Thanks to Champ for the models! Concrete textures were blended from R1's fortifications, many thanks for his unending hard work for the community.

Best regards,
Booze

Two questions that come to mind.

Do they actually fire?

Do they have a shadow?

Also working on the Blister Hangars today.

Cheers,
Booze

It's looking good, but then every screen shot has.

Very nice booze, those quanza's look just like corrugated metal that lost some zinc, love the towers.

I have to ask and maybe this is a little premature but how many hours would you guess (I think that's all you can do) that you have accumulated as the 'other' collective? Also if this causes you to shake as you're thinking about it please stop, that may be nervous exhaustion

Thanks for the answers

If I may, I took the liberty to replace the ingame barrels with more decent ones. You'll find them over at AAA.

Thanks Zorin, Got em, Great job, they look really nice! Will for sure use these. Top notch on the Ordnance MODS also!

Booze

Looking pretty nice, guys!

Can't wait!

Hi all one of the German Machine gun towers we are currently working on. Should pack some punch.

Best regards,
Booze

Cool! Thanks.

Nice towers Booze.


Wheels

This work in progress is a big reason why I reinstalled IL-2. I'm enjoying the Biggin Hill campaign in the beta version and look forward to every update on this thread. Thanks for the work being done.

Hi all, here is one of the versions of our Type C RAF hangars we are currently working on. Thanks to our friend and its creator Remi.

Best regards,
Booze

SWEET!

What are average computer specs to run this map with some planes in it please?

Another question please, one that will surely bring some ire my way.

This and "The "Other" Channel Map" are pushing a year in developement, is there actually a finish point or will you guys just keep adding cool stuff until we all die in 2012?

Sunchaser,

Actually, this map is nearly two years old from original concept to this point. We are keenly aware of how long it is taking; much longer than we ever imagined. The task is much larger than we ever imagined it would be.

We continue to learn, to develop new techniques, and find ourselves going back and redoing things we had already "finished". The entire squad stood back and took a look at what we were doing, what the projected finish date was, decided most of us would be in a convalescent home before we got very close to that date, and have altered our plans.

We don't want to rush, we don't want to release a POS, but we don't want to all be old men when we finally get to fly the map with you folks. These are all issues we recognize and are working to solve.

I know .... I know .... "that's nice, but when will it be done". I honestly don't know, but we are pushing to get it done NOW. When is "NOW"? I don't know. But we won't be old men in a convalescent home, of that you can be assured.

Any machine that runs 4.09m well should handle this map okay. Obviously the map is large, and while it itself doesn't have "too many" objects on it, mission builders could populate airfields and cities and add moving objects that might push the outer boundries of what a minimal system could handle. We can't assure anybody that any given system will run the map fine, but we *can* tell you that in our squad of nearly 30 pilots no system has been unable to run the map comfortably. During testing we have discovered some techniques and objects that severely impact frame rates and have either solved the problem by fixing the object, or removing it altogether. The map runs far better than do the Berlin or Finland maps, and easily as well as does the Slot map.

Of course, all this development and testing takes ............. time.

Hangar looks the ducks' nuts guys!

Can't wait to do proper sorties over the channel and back!

Any chance of a RAF Redhill in the 1940 map?

Persecutor, no problem! Just send me a copy (I'll share it with the rest of the squad to save you the hassle) and we'll test away helping you guys out. It's the least we can do, after all, you guys have helped us tons of times flying against FA!

352nd Persecutor, thank you for the prompt and enlightening reply.

Going back to waiting patiently now.

Well....waiting sorta patiently.

(did not want you guys to think we stopped caring.)

I agree.
I am still looking forward to it.


Wheels

Don't know if that's been asked before and it might be a silly qustion but: Did you guys talk to Team Daedalus if there is any chance to include this amazing work into 4.09?

Hi guys, we're still pluggin away and are finishing up with our custom RAF airfield buildings and hangars. Here are a couple from the set below. Hope everyone is having a great summer.

TBAG thanks, I beleive they have already finalized their version of 4.09, but thanks for the kind words.

Booze

Great shot! Although I suspect that bloke is peeing against the building.

I hate to admit it but I thought the same thing when I saw the picture.


Wheels

That's what I do half way threw the day at work accept it's an explosives magazine.