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Devotion (film)

Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Devotion (film) - 12/05/22 02:01 PM

This is a movie about the first black US Navy aviator during the Korean War. There's a lot of news right now in Hollywood that this completely flopped financially at the box office. Do we have any theories as to why so few people were interested in seeing this?

1. Subject matter? I guess no one really cares about seeing a Korean War movie? Admittedly the Korean War seems to be a forgotten war compared to other wars.

2. Poorly marketed? It seems this movie really wasn't marketed very much either online or on TV. Maybe the studio execs already knew this was going to flop so why pour more money into it?

3. Post-Covid effect? Maybe a lot more people will see this movie but not until they can stream it at home?

Either way, I just think it's pretty sad that this movie flopped so badly because it will just discourage studios even more from making films like these in the future.
Posted By: ebud

Re: Devotion (film) - 12/05/22 02:49 PM

I was really looking forward to this movie and even I still haven't seen it. It's really such a niche movie that I can totally understand why it flopped sadly. No one I know other than maybe the few veterans I know would have any idea about ANYTHING related to Korea and even they probably won't see this movie even when it goes to Netflix. Your average person off the street has never even heard of the Korean War and even if they sorta remember something from middle school history, they could not care less about it. Yeah, it is sad, but only a blockbuster with big names can draw a crowd now, especially a war movie, but honestly I don't think even Tom Cruise could have pulled in crowds for this movie.... well maybe if it was semi-fictional and wasn't a "modern look at racism" which from the reviews I have read is what is really is. THis is just my opinion, but I don't think black people in general would give two hoots about this movie and the people who might want to go see it might be turned off from the "evil white folks trying to keep black pilots down" historical theme. People are tired of being lectured to in entertainment, but I could be totally wrong. I will see it this week though.

Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: Devotion (film) - 12/05/22 02:56 PM

You make some valid points ebud and thanks for that well written response.
Posted By: Haggart

Re: Devotion (film) - 12/05/22 03:53 PM

If the critics at Rottentomatoes gave it an 82 and the audience score was 92 ..... that's enough for me to give it a chance with me too.
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: Devotion (film) - 12/05/22 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by Haggart
If the critics at Rottentomatoes gave it an 82 and the audience score was 92 ..... that's enough for me to give it a chance with me too.



I'll be seeing it on Friday. My wife has zero interest but that's fine. I've been to the movie theater before by myself. biggrin


But yes, both the critics and the people who bothered to go see it have given the movie high marks. It just failed to interest enough people.
Posted By: Haggart

Re: Devotion (film) - 12/05/22 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
[quote=Haggart]If the critics at Rottentomatoes gave it an 82 and the audience score was 92 ..... that's enough for me to give it a chance with me too.


I'll be seeing it on Friday. My wife has zero interest but that's fine. I've been to the movie theater before by myself. biggrin


haha ! ...... i know what u mean Panzer ! ....... while the focus of the movie may not be just about the war ...if one can include the word "war" in it .... then my chances that my wife would want to see it have already dropped 30% lol !


....and I'll add ....% chance my wife would play a sim or mmo with me ..... -200%
Posted By: Wigean

Re: Devotion (film) - 12/05/22 04:34 PM

Mixed reviews on IMDB.
Varying mostly from 6 - 10, averaging 7.
I will see this when it is available in Norway.
Some people say it is slow, with little action.
Don`t mind that really. A movie about a man and his way towards military aviation is sparking my interest any day.
Hehe, haven`t seen Maverick yet so, yeah. smile

Did a search on Itunes for it.
Result?
Selena Gomez: Devotion.
I`ll wait. biggrin
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: Devotion (film) - 12/05/22 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by Wigean


Did a search on Itunes for it.
Result?
Selena Gomez: Devotion.
I`ll wait. biggrin



It's still in movie theaters so it wouldn't be on ITunes yet.
Posted By: Snow46

Re: Devotion (film) - 12/05/22 04:50 PM

Planning on seeing it Friday. It looks like an interesting story. I was surprised to find out how many theaters in the area have closed down for good as a result of COVID. Also haven’t seen a lot of advertising on the movie.

While my wife has no objection to war movies (as long as I don’t object to chick flicks), she also hates the thought of MMOs or sims.
Posted By: NoFlyBoy

Re: Devotion (film) - 12/05/22 05:52 PM

Have not heard about it.

It's the story of this Naval Pilot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_L._Brown

Ship name after him https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_L._Brown

Fresh https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/devotion_2022







The U.S. Navy did not have jets on their aircraft carriers when Korean War began in 1950? Using a 10 years old aircraft?

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Posted By: NoFlyBoy

Re: Devotion (film) - 12/05/22 06:10 PM

One review I read

Quote
Saw it and it was "Based on True Events", aka Hollywood took liberties with the truth/reality of history.

next part has spoilers

Hudner never shot down a Mig-15 with or without Ensign Brown's participation.

The use of the word "scuttle" applies to the self sinking of a ship and not the (napalming) of the crashed F4U-4 Corsair's to deny their exploitation by the enemy.

Don't believe Ensign Brown disobeyed orders to not attack a bridge which the movie shows he single-handedly destroyed either.


The airplane graphics were EXCELLENT. The ship was so-so of an Essex Class carrier. How they parked aircraft on the flight deck was never done, but apparently desired to fill up the camera's lens with "stuff" to catch the eye, just like so much flak you couldn't walk on, but would SWIM in!
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: Devotion (film) - 12/05/22 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy

The U.S. Navy did not have jets on their aircraft carriers when Korean War began in 1950? Using a 10 years old aircraft?



No one did in 1950. It was only 5 years after the end of WWII you know.
Posted By: Mr_Blastman

Re: Devotion (film) - 12/05/22 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy

The U.S. Navy did not have jets on their aircraft carriers when Korean War began in 1950? Using a 10 years old aircraft?


You realize that the Air Force still uses H model B52s, right? They last rolled off the production line in 1962...
Posted By: NoFlyBoy

Re: Devotion (film) - 12/05/22 06:19 PM

The Navy and Marines had these in Korea in 1950

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_F2H_Banshee#US_Navy_and_Marine_Corps

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_F9F_Panther#US_Navy
Posted By: F4UDash4

Re: Devotion (film) - 12/05/22 06:22 PM

Even with new F-35's being bought in increasing numbers the AVERAGE age of all current US fighter aircraft is 28 years old.
Posted By: ArgonV

Re: Devotion (film) - 12/05/22 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy

The U.S. Navy did not have jets on their aircraft carriers when Korean War began in 1950? Using a 10 years old aircraft?



The U.S. navy in Korea was still very much using prop planes (along with jets). Even by your own Wiki article, there's a photo of Brown in the cockpit of his F4U.
Posted By: semmern

Re: Devotion (film) - 12/05/22 10:36 PM

Saw a post about this in an airplane group on Facebook, where someone asked «Woke-meter reading from 1-10?» and someone replied «0!», so maybe it’s not woke enough.. smile That, and the fact that if you asked 100 people on the street about the Korean War, I bet 97 of them would go «the whatnow?»

Apart from the Panther and the Banshee, the USN didn’t use jets in Korea as far as I can remember. Even the USAF used F-51s, F-84s and F-80s until they were outclassed by the MiG-15 and relegated to attack duties. They even flew B-29s on bombing missions until the losses became unbearable.
Posted By: ebud

Re: Devotion (film) - 12/06/22 01:54 AM

well crap, I tried to stay away from reviews and reaction posts since they usually spoil the movie but since there are no plot twists to this I gave it a go... looks like I will wait for it to make it to rentals or Netflix... sounds like a snoozefest and like I feared, its less about the war and more about the relationships and racism of the era... I know lots of people seem to enjoy it, but just as many think it was slow... but this post on IMDB confirmed what I was thinking about the film... I get it, but that doesn't mean I have to like the direction they took and from what I have read, the flying scenes/combat make up maybe 10% of the movie frown


"This movie is about Korean War heroes and it should stand on it's own by showing the accomplishments of the service members. Anyone who's slightly aware of American history knows the challenges black citizens faced, especially those excelling in areas where they wouldn't normally, such as flying. Rather than focus on the achievements this movie constantly reminds the viewer every step of the way that blacks were discriminated against and bullied in an overt manner. If you're looking for war action there's very little; it focuses almost solely on the constant discrimination Jeese Brown faced as a young pilot."
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: Devotion (film) - 12/06/22 04:06 AM

Thanks for that info ebud and it's a shame that so little actual air combat is featured.


Take another war movie for example, "Glory". That featured race relations AND it had several really fantastic battle scenes.



So, it CAN be done but you have to have the right people involved in making the film.
Posted By: F4UDash4

Re: Devotion (film) - 12/06/22 10:50 AM

There are two heroes portrayed in this film, Brown and Hudner, each of a distinctly different type of heroism. My concern for this film has always been, since I knew it was being made, that it would concentrate almost entirely on one hero at the expense of the other. I will probably end up watching at home on my own TV at some point.
Posted By: ebud

Re: Devotion (film) - 12/06/22 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Thanks for that info ebud and it's a shame that so little actual air combat is featured.


Take another war movie for example, "Glory". That featured race relations AND it had several really fantastic battle scenes.



So, it CAN be done but you have to have the right people involved in making the film.

Yeah, I'm still excited to see it, Glory was good from what I remember, its been a while honestly... I like my war movies thoughtful but tense and action-packed (mostly)... not a fan of political/social commentary infused into them honestly, but I know those are few and far between and that would rule out the majority if I were to refuse to watch them for that reason. I actually took a copy of Moffie, cut out all the fluff and turned it into a basic training/war movie and not a gay pride movie lol, I can hear pearls being clutched at the thought of it lol. Wasn't bad without the main subplot lol. Personally one of my favorite movies is Greyhound...all combat, no fluff. I bet most hated it for that very reason. Get off my lawn!!
Posted By: NoFlyBoy

Re: Devotion (film) - 01/08/23 06:42 AM

This just drop on Amazon Prime https://www.amazon.com/Devotion-Jonathan-Majors/dp/B0B8NXP66H

I might take a look cos it's free.
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: Devotion (film) - 01/08/23 11:31 PM

Devotion was praised by most critics. It’s just too bad that the general public didn’t care to see it.
Posted By: NoFlyBoy

Re: Devotion (film) - 01/09/23 01:07 AM

The movie is 2 hrs 19 min. Skip the first 1 hr 14 min of the usual Hollywood race stuff to get to the first air battle scene.

We know there was racism back then and we know he is the first Black Navy pilot and we know Whites try to held him back and even some of the Blacks in the military hated him for being with Whites but no one needs to be subjected to 1 hour and 14 minutes of it.

Then skip to 1 hr 35 min to the next battle scene and when that is over, you can forget the rest of the movie, 30 minutes more to go and no more combat scenes, you know how it ends by reading the WIKI page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_L._Brown#Death.

if you are expecting a movie like Top Gun Maverick with air combat scene, you will be disappointed. Total air combat scenes is about 10 minutes.

Reviews:

Quote
Incoherent - The story drags, is one cliche after another, and it says nothing interesting about the war or the time period. On top of this, any comparison to Top Gun is laughable.

Could Have Been A Lot Better - Same old crap from Hollywood. A lot of racial overtones. Same kind of war movie. Bar fights. Immature thought processes. Not following orders and instructions which endanger enlisted and officer lives. This movie was crap. I couldn't wait until it was over.

Cliched, dull, funny - Devotion is one old trope after another after another. Most of those scenes involve some kind of trope speech given at just the right moment to the troops.

Another one - This could have been a very good movie, but very much of current ideology and moral panic stood in it's way. Almost every minute we were treated with some lesson on back woes. Now and then there are glimpses that movie could take off, pun not intended, but instantly loses fuel and lift with another healthy dose of blacksplaining.

Ruined by Wokeness - This movie could have focussed on a magnificent pilot, inspiring friendship, and draw dropping feat of sacrifice. Instead, like Gollum clutching the ring as he dissolves in lava, the writers can only focus on racism and hate.There is no journey of the character. The character stays trapped in hate unlike the real person.

Not a war movie - It felt like the trailer duped us. I was expecting to go in and see a Korean War film from the perspective of navy aviators. Kind of a style mix between Top Gun and Pearl Harbor. However it was far from that. There are only two action sequences in the entire movie and they don't last very long. Very underwhelming.
Posted By: Mr_Blastman

Re: Devotion (film) - 01/09/23 06:12 AM

Typical modern Hollywood, making a movie far longer than it needs to be. The 1995 film, "The Tuskegee Airmen" was only an hour and forty five minutes long, plenty enough, and was really good.
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: Devotion (film) - 01/09/23 11:33 AM

Heh, an actual excellent post from NFB! I give credit when credit is due! smile
Posted By: Chucky

Re: Devotion (film) - 01/09/23 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Heh, an actual excellent post from NFB! I give credit when credit is due! smile


Yeah, at this rate I may unblock him smile
Posted By: Trooper117

Re: Devotion (film) - 01/09/23 02:23 PM

Quote
Incoherent - The story drags, is one cliche after another, and it says nothing interesting about the war or the time period. On top of this, any comparison to Top Gun is laughable.

Could Have Been A Lot Better - Same old crap from Hollywood. A lot of racial overtones. Same kind of war movie. Bar fights. Immature thought processes. Not following orders and instructions which endanger enlisted and officer lives. This movie was crap. I couldn't wait until it was over.

Cliched, dull, funny - Devotion is one old trope after another after another. Most of those scenes involve some kind of trope speech given at just the right moment to the troops.

Another one - This could have been a very good movie, but very much of current ideology and moral panic stood in it's way. Almost every minute we were treated with some lesson on back woes. Now and then there are glimpses that movie could take off, pun not intended, but instantly loses fuel and lift with another healthy dose of blacksplaining.

Ruined by Wokeness - This movie could have focussed on a magnificent pilot, inspiring friendship, and draw dropping feat of sacrifice. Instead, like Gollum clutching the ring as he dissolves in lava, the writers can only focus on racism and hate.There is no journey of the character. The character stays trapped in hate unlike the real person.

Not a war movie - It felt like the trailer duped us. I was expecting to go in and see a Korean War film from the perspective of navy aviators. Kind of a style mix between Top Gun and Pearl Harbor. However it was far from that. There are only two action sequences in the entire movie and they don't last very long. Very underwhelming.


As I suspected... won't be watching this.
Posted By: Tarnsman

Re: Devotion (film) - 01/10/23 01:21 AM

Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
Typical modern Hollywood, making a movie far longer than it needs to be. The 1995 film, "The Tuskegee Airmen" was only an hour and forty five minutes long, plenty enough, and was really good.

Yep. "The Tuskegee Airmen" was better than "Red Tails" by a long shot.
Posted By: NoFlyBoy

Re: Devotion (film) - 01/10/23 01:22 AM

Those reviews are from online. They are not mine.
Posted By: Flogger23m

Re: Devotion (film) - 01/10/23 04:48 AM

Movie was passable but a bit boring. It primarily relied on the racial aspect. It was a bit odd as well in those scenes. While it would be hard to make a plot about such a person without mentioning the issues once, to keep going on and on about it did get old. The air scenes were very limited like mentioned above. This was a political commentary movie first, with a setting of a war. That isn't necessarily bad but it just didn't work in this movie. They needed some more air time.
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: Devotion (film) - 01/10/23 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by Flogger23m
Movie was passable but a bit boring. It primarily relied on the racial aspect. It was a bit odd as well in those scenes. While it would be hard to make a plot about such a person without mentioning the issues once, to keep going on and on about it did get old. The air scenes were very limited like mentioned above. This was a political commentary movie first, with a setting of a war. That isn't necessarily bad but it just didn't work in this movie. They needed some more air time.



IMHO, "Glory" is the prime example of how you make a movie that balances the racial/discrimination aspect while having some great battle scenes and maintaining a high degree of historical accuracy.
Posted By: F4UDash4

Re: Devotion (film) - 01/12/23 09:27 PM

This clip reminded me of this movie. Keep in mind Bill Burr is in fact married to a black woman.

https://youtube.com/shorts/gb9R3eovKyA?
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