The U.S.S. Thresher investigation

F4 recently mentioned the release of documents related to the Thresher investigation in another thread. I just saw this recent post, which includes an excellent video presentation on what is known so far.

Panel: ‘Navy Has Done Itself a Major Favor’ in Releasing Thresher Investigation

Rest in peace, brothers.

I remember very clearly hearing that on the evening news.

I remember it well.Yes,,RIP Brothers

Is the remains still on the seabed, or was there a recovery of any of it?

Mick.

Yes, some parts were recovered. The rest remains on eternal patrol.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Thresher_(SSN-593) :
"Trieste II was commanded by Lieutenant John B. Mooney Jr., with co-pilot Lieutenant John H. Howland and Captain Frank Andrews, in an operation that recovered parts of the wreckage in September 1964."

Just read this about the incident:


“Propulsion failure during deep dive test on 10 April, 1963, subsequent emergency ballast blowout failed due to icing issues; Vessel sank past maximum depth limit and imploded, killing all 129 crew members.”

I can’t even fathom what must have been going through their minds after the failure of the emergency ballast. RiP.

One of the most disturbing aspects is that back then, when the reactor scrammed (tripped), the main steam isolation valves automatically closed, and could not be immediately reopened. That killed the steam supply to the main propulsion, which prevented a powered ascent to the surface.

U-tube steam generators have a notable amount of remaining steam inventory in them when a scram occurs, plus there is (reactor) decay heat still available to generate some more steam. If they could have utilized that steam, there is a very real possibility they could have made it back up to the surface, and had time fight / stop / minimize the flooding.

During my time in, that main steam isolation automatic closure/interlock was no longer the case. A hard lesson learned.

The Subsafe program addressed a number of things learned from that tragedy. My boat, U.S.S. Jack, SSN-605 did not get the full Subsafe package, which left some limits on what we were allowed to do.

Thanks for the input gents, a tragedy indeed.

Mick.

Always good to hear from someone who has real experience and knowledge. Thanks CyBerkut !

My son lost crew-mates too. One was left on deck when the sub dived. Brave men, submariners.

Oh man... that sucks. You don't expect that kind of thing to happen during peacetime. Of course, they may have been somewhere that somebody else didn't want them to be...

It was in peacetime, sheer accident. Huge investigation later.

Not in this case, but our subs regularly penetrate river estuaries etc where they shouldn't be. Edward my son has some hilarious tales of fishermen etc. from his time in the Otama and the old Orion.

I would assume so since I don’t think any Australian subs have seen combat since WWII.

Wish it was so Panzer, we have been involved in many wars since WW2 (not your statement I know) and our subs are constantly sparring with Chinese coastal forces, mainly Intel missions. My own son has an Australian Combat Service decoration. And of course the ongoing Forever War with nations we assume will be enemies at some time and exercises with our friends.

This sh!t never ends, and we only have the population of NYNY.

This tells a bit about Australian sub operations Cold War.

Sorry, but you will have to copy and paste.

https://www.navalofficer.com.au/o-boats1/#:~:text=It’s%20the%20great%20untold%20story%20of%20Australian%20naval,effort%20to%20check%20the%20Soviet%20Navy’s%20formidable%20fleet.

Submarines are inherently dangerous things to be on, surfacing and submerging, and when bad things happen, normally everyone on board dies, like Thresher and Scorpion. No survivors. There are no real built-in safety margins even with the big nukey boats. Submariners are very brave men as a rule. My son has told me of another occasion when his boat took on several tons of seawater on diving with a faulty hatch, and they only pulled out of a potential crushing accident by seconds. Natch our diesel-electrics are worse than most nukeys as a clear passage exists for snorkel to the engine room. Brave men.

Cyber will know more about it than me.

Excellent article OG. Both Otama and Orion got a mention. Edward was comm officer and though he kipped on a rack of Mk48s he had a private booth, illegal to search, where the crew stashed contraband to smuggle back into Oz.

We saw him and his mates in Sydney a few times when in port at Platypus. They were good lads, all very young and full of p!ss and vinegar. On one liberty in Singapore they got Australian ship liberties banned.. the submariners were renowned as fighting drunks when ashore and another Oz ship, a skimmer, had their liberty stopped because of the way the sub boys behaved. Just young blokes letting off steam after a long patrol.

Age shall not weary them nor the years condemn...... On the going down of the sun, and in the morning, We shall remember them.

For lost O-Boaters.....

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/Oberon_class_submarines_commemorative_plaque%2C_Rockingham_Naval_Memorial_Park%2C_September_2019_01.jpg


BTW it's "submarrinners" not "submareeners"

Excuse my ignorance but couldn’t some of the big nuke boats have an escape section that could maybe detach and float to the surface? I’d imagine space is the thing as there isn’t much on them for everything they carry, but some of them are pretty huge.

Mick.

Only one 'n' in submariner Max. At least here that is how it spelt.

He was talking about how to pronounce the term.

It doesn't strike me as practical. Yes, such a thing could be built, but the tradeoffs would not be attractive. The escape section would have to be self- contained pressure vessel. Adding one large enough to carry the entire crew, or two smaller ones that combined could accommodate the entire crew, would require a substantial amount of additional metal. Some additional systems would be needed as well... and for a space that normally wouldn't get utilized. Subs are very much about packing maximum combat capability into the available space. The crew amenities that are included are there to enable extended operation.

Besides... when things go wrong, they generally do so quickly. You want the crew focused on solving the problem, not on possibly trying to make it to some form of submersible life boat. If you are losing the boat in water deeper than crush depth, it's likely there won't be time to evacuate to a detachable escape vessel. If the boat goes down shallower than crush depth and remains intact on the bottom, the Navy has rescue equipment that attach to the escape hatches and evacuate crew members in batches. Reference U.S.S. Squalus.

https://youtu.be/tRzNr9Q9iOw

Submarines, as with space craft, have space at such a premium, you may as well build a second submarine/hull.

"The Space Shuttle was fitted with ejection seats for the two pilots in the initial "shakedown" flights, but these were removed once the vehicle was deemed operational and carried additional crew members, which could not be provided with escape hatches. Following the 1986 Challenger disaster, all surviving orbiters were fitted to allow for crew evacuation through the main ingress/egress hatch, although only when the Shuttle was in a controlled glide, as the crew would have had to reach the exit from their seats and jump out."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Launch_escape_system

A total waste of money to appease the public conscience by giving the appearance of a chance for survival in the event of an emergency.

Spacecraft and submarines are inherently dangerous. God bless all those brave enough to venture forth in them.

Another thing about submariners and submarines, there is a a lot of personal stress.

My boy wasn't the same when I saw him after he left the Navy as he was on joining Cerberus. A different bloke, no joy of life left. It took years to bring him round and he's still not right. He lives alone with his son here in town.

Sh1t happens to these guys, and, to me at any rate, if they want to clear out the tubes a bit on shore leave and have a few fights, that's just fine by me, and I would fight the bloke who said otherwise.

Appreciate the input gentlemen. Yes, you would have to have serious stress control in those boats. Personally I don’t think I could handle the thought of being in one for any length of time knowing how close death is.
Kudos to them all.

Mick.