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The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade.

Posted By: NoFlyBoy

The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 06/25/20 08:59 AM

Russia holds big parade marking the 75th anniversary of the Workers' and Peasants' Red Army's victory over that pesky National Socialist German Workers' Party.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-e...ade-goes-ahead-despite-coronavirus-fears









They may be able to Goose march all pretty but that don't mean they can fight.

First time they are under fire, they will cower in a muddy ditch in fear crying for Mama!

Remember them Nazis looked good Goose marching but it didn't help them win a world war, did it? Losers!



One thing I observed while watching that Russian parade. Every person in uniform had a ton of medals on them. You get medals from being in combat. How many wars have all those soldiers been in? How many wars have Russia been in in the past 10 years?

Many of them soldiers marching by are so young I doubt many of them have gotten their baptism of fire yet. I think those Russians officers and generals are handing out medals for anything.

In the 4th YouTube video at 17 minutes, Female Russian soldiers marching by all have medals on them.

How many of them have been in actual combat to perform above and beyond to earn a medal? I bet NONE!
Posted By: KraziKanuK

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 06/25/20 09:48 AM

I have to ask, how old are you NFB?
Posted By: Ajay

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 06/25/20 10:18 AM

Scrolling..scrolling...scrolling..4th video..well, hellooooo ladies!
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 06/25/20 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by KraziKanuK
I have to ask, how old are you NFB?



I asked him that question as well a while back. I don't think I ever got a reply.
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 06/25/20 10:40 AM

In all fairness to NFB, he does make one valid point about the military decorations. Handing out military medals like candy is indeed a trademark of not only Russia but of course the prior USSR and most other prior Warsaw Pact countries as well as modern day China and North Korea.
Posted By: Chucky

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 06/25/20 10:56 AM

That always intrigued me. So many medals,what did they do to earn them? I'd love a breakdown of what they actually are.

I've seen some pretty tight marching from the likes of China and NK but that doesn't mean crap as NFB states.

The Iraq army looked pretty good in a parade I saw circa 1990 but the USA handed them their asses in double quick time a year later.
Posted By: NoFlyBoy

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 06/25/20 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by KraziKanuK
I have to ask, how old are you NFB?


Old enough to drink.

Originally Posted by Ajay
Scrolling..scrolling...scrolling..4th video..well, hellooooo ladies!


Many of them look like the American stereotype of the Russian woman: big, thick and matriarch looking.
Posted By: NoFlyBoy

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 06/25/20 11:11 AM

China loves to parade their troops too. This is from the CCTV (China Central Television) YouTube channel.



China female soldiers in parade formation marching. Someone needs to tell them color red will stand out on the battlefield.



So does North Korea love their parades





North Korea military goose stepping to MORE APPROPRIATE music!!



Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 06/25/20 11:14 AM

You know that there is a big difference between a dress military uniform and a combat military uniform right?
Posted By: NoFlyBoy

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 06/25/20 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
You know that there is a big difference between a dress military uniform and a combat military uniform right?


Yes I do know but they are commies, they love the color red, and we love to make fun of them.

Originally Posted by Ajay
Scrolling..scrolling...scrolling..4th video..well, hellooooo ladies!


Just for you Ajay. Complete with English subtitles translating Russian propaganda song.




Posted By: KraziKanuK

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 06/25/20 12:21 PM


American medals
[Linked Image]
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 06/25/20 12:22 PM

Oh yes, there are a lot of medals for the US military. There's no doubt about that. However, if you see a member of the US military with a chest full of medals and ribbons it's because they've seen a significant amount of combat.
Posted By: Roudou

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 06/25/20 12:38 PM

Well, Putin is not the last to go to war. Chechenia, Georgia, Ukraine, Syria...
Posted By: KraziKanuK

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 06/25/20 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Oh yes, there are a lot of medals for the US military. There's no doubt about that. However, if you see a member of the US military with a chest full of medals and ribbons it's because they've seen a significant amount of combat.

Not all ribbons are for combat.
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 06/25/20 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by KraziKanuK
[
Not all ribbons are for combat.



No. Some are for participating in a specific operation or theater of operations.
Posted By: WhoCares

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 06/25/20 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted by KraziKanuK
[
Not all ribbons are for combat.



No. Some are for participating in a specific operation or theater of operations.

Where "participation" can be a very broad term…
Quote
Due to the broadly-defined awarding criterion of "support duty", the GWOT-SM is a quasi-automatically-awarded medal similar to the National Defense Service Medal (NDSM), with the primary difference being that the NDSM is awarded instantly upon entering military service, whereas the GWOT-SM is awarded after thirty days of post-training active service.

GWOT NDSM, just two examples, so yeah, the USA as most others as well have their share of decorations for very little...
Posted By: EAF331 MadDog

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 06/25/20 02:17 PM

Plenty of ribbons are for simple things such as qualifications and completed trainings. These can be represented as medals as well as just badges.

I'm sure you can find a gazillion examples of US servicepersonel with a chest full of stuff who never was near a real war.
Posted By: rwatson

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 06/25/20 02:28 PM

You got that right Maddog..When I was in Vietnam our rear was in Okinawa When we got our butts pounded during Tet They got the same ribbons we got and were never in country
Posted By: NoFlyBoy

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 06/25/20 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by rwatson
You got that right Maddog..When I was in Vietnam our rear was in Okinawa When we got our butts pounded during Tet They got the same ribbons we got and were never in country


Thank you for your service.
Posted By: Crane Hunter

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 06/25/20 03:13 PM

I feel they covered a lot of bases with this one:

Posted By: Chucky

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 06/25/20 03:30 PM

That was a pretty interesting video Crane.

The scene at 3.15 looked staged af though.

At 4.47 what is that IL-2 with the odd looking grille? Never seen one like that.
Posted By: NoFlyBoy

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 06/25/20 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by Crane Hunter
I feel they covered a lot of bases with this one:]


Or this one for China

Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 06/25/20 04:58 PM

Interesting. I didn't know China had female fighter pilots.
Posted By: KraziKanuK

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 06/25/20 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy
Originally Posted by Crane Hunter
I feel they covered a lot of bases with this one:]


Or this one for China





Nov 14 2016

One of China's first female fighter pilots and a member of the country's air force aerobatics team was killed in a training accident over the weekend, according to Chinese state-run media.

Capt. Yu Xu, 30, died Saturday during a routine training flight with the aerobatics team, according to the reports.
The Chinese military did not provide details of the accident in Hebei province, but state-run media, citing military sources and witnesses, said Yu ejected from her aircraft after it collided with another during the training.
Posted By: NoFlyBoy

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 06/26/20 12:18 AM

China has some strange looking jet fighters.

This one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chengdu_J-10 has canard but the cockpit and the nose look like it was stolen from F-16.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheng...12_and_PL-8B_at_ZhuHai_Air_Show_2018.jpg

Wonder how any of these will do if they get into air combat against our F-15, F-16, F-18, F-22 and F-35.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shenyang_J-11

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shenyang_J-16

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chengdu_J-20

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shenyang_FC-31

China's Air Force current inventory

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Liberation_Army_Air_Force#Current_inventory

We still have more aircraft and the world's best pilots

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_United_States_military_aircraft

Posted By: Ajay

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 06/26/20 12:38 AM

We have a memorial park near home that has a large circle walk with poles. The poles are topped with the striped colours of a certain theatre of operations that Australians have served in since the Boer War with a plaque accompying each. Having, funnily enough, just re re re rewatched Top Gun with my daughter recently (thanks simhq lol) and been asked why the air force chaps had so many ribbons and what they stood for, the park was an oppurtune learning walk.

Not that Maverick ever served in the Boer War, unless there is a crossover Final Countdown sequel. Don't ever write Hollywood off, worse things have happened!
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 06/26/20 12:43 AM

The Boer War. Now there’s a war that had a greater influence on future events than most people think.
Posted By: Sluggish Controls

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 06/26/20 02:40 AM

Originally Posted by Chucky

At 4.47 what is that IL-2 with the odd looking grille? Never seen one like that.



Darn, can’t tell if you set up a trap...
I thought the black & white IL2 image was a large backdrop glued on a wall in a room, with the grille being a central heating vent of some sort (for the building, not the IL2 :-P )

Cheers,
Slug
Posted By: Crane Hunter

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 06/26/20 02:43 AM

Originally Posted by Chucky
That was a pretty interesting video Crane.

The scene at 3.15 looked staged af though.

At 4.47 what is that IL-2 with the odd looking grille? Never seen one like that.


It's almost as if they knew they were being filmed?! :p

As for that Il-2 weirdness...

[Linked Image]

I wonder if they just hastily patched previous battle damage with some random piece of metal they had lying around?
Posted By: Sluggish Controls

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 06/26/20 02:51 AM

Hmmmmm.... Stop that, don’t make me look silly.
It is a wall-mounted image with a vent.

Cheers,
Slug
Posted By: KraziKanuK

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 06/26/20 02:55 AM

It is a vent to allow the stench the rear gunner produced to escape when attacked.
Posted By: Crane Hunter

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 06/26/20 04:10 AM

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Hmmmm.

Not sure if result of vented mural, vodka or maskirovka?
Posted By: Chucky

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 06/26/20 09:00 AM

Was it a trap? To save face I'm going to say...yes? duh
Posted By: BD-123

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 06/26/20 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy


They may be able to Goose march all pretty but that don't mean they can fight.

First time they are under fire, they will cower in a muddy ditch in fear crying for Mama!



I think you might need to do some research into the combat roles played by Russian women in WW2 mate, before you make such sweeping statements.
There were a good number of courageous women aircrew including fighter aces, ground troops and sailors who fought and fell in the 'Great Patriotic War'. Whatever one thinks of the USSR, and particularly the egregious Stalin regime, one can't deny that the Soviet States were the main cause of the defeat of the Axis, if it is measured in blood.
Snipers for example:
"The Soviet Union deployed women as snipers and in a variety of infantry roles. Between 1941 and 1945, a total of 2,484 soviet female snipers were functioning in this role, of whom about 500 survived the war. Their combined tally of kill claims is at least 11,000."
Posted By: NoFlyBoy

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 06/26/20 09:55 AM

Go back and re read it. I said they. I was referring to everyone seen marching in the 4 YouTube videos. It wasn't directed specifically at the women soldiers.
Posted By: Sluggish Controls

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 06/26/20 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by Chucky
Was it a trap? To save face I'm going to say...yes? duh


thank you
Please don't tell others.

Cheers,
Slug
Posted By: Dart

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 06/26/20 11:43 PM

Point of information:

In the US Army, every medal has a ribbon to go with it, but not every ribbon has a medal.

A soldier can have four rows of ribbons and only have six actual medals to wear.

For example, I have the Army Service Ribbon (it primes the pump, as it means one has completed Basic Training and AIT; yes, gentle reader, the US Army had a participation award long before it became fashionable), the Overseas Ribbon (I served a tour overseas), and the Non-Commissioned Officer Academy Ribbon (with a "3" device), for examples, and none of them have a medal to go with them.

smile
Posted By: JimK

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 06/27/20 04:29 AM

Posted By: Crane Hunter

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 07/11/20 04:17 AM

All-female crew embarks on Black Sea patrol in first for Russian Navy

SEVASTOPOL, Crimea (Reuters) - In a first for the Russian Navy, an all-female navy crew carried out patrols on the Black Sea on Friday in preparation for Russia’s Navy Day celebrations later this month.

The crew, on board a patrol boat, fulfilled a broad array of drills on their maiden voyage, simulating how they would react to an incursion by saboteurs including by tossing RGD-5 hand grenades into the sea.

“I decided to become a member of the crew because it’s very interesting,” said Olga Chelkova, a senior engine mechanic. “It’s promising and, most of all, it’s an experiment that women have never taken part in before.”

The voyage marks a symbolic step in Russian women’s quest to play a more active role in the armed forces, an institution dominated by men.

The navy still holds barriers to entry for women. A decree signed by President Vladimir Putin in 2000 lists 456 jobs in 38 industries which women are barred from doing because they would entail “heavy work and work in harmful working conditions”.

The role of captain is not on the list but seaman is, and serving a seaman’s apprenticeship is standard practice for male cadets and a necessary step to take on a command role.
The Russian government plans next year to shorten the list of jobs women are barred from holding.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-in-first-for-russian-navy-idUSKBN24B2PO

Nyet Comrade, no seamen allowed.
Posted By: Nimits

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 07/11/20 05:53 AM

Originally Posted by BD-123
Whatever one thinks of the USSR, and particularly the egregious Stalin regime, one can't deny that the Soviet States were the main cause of the defeat of the Axis, if it is measured in blood.
Snipers for example:


Except that, from September 1939 to June 1941, the Soviets were the main enablers of Nazi Germany. For all the multitude of failings of the British and especially the French government and military leadership in 1939-1940, Hitler would never have been able to pull off the destruction of Poland and the defeat of France, at least in so short a time, if Soviets had not guaranteed his eastern front (and actively assisted in the destruction of Poland).

Crediting the Soviets with defeating the Axis would be akin to crediting a man for stopping a murderer after he had five minutes before just handed the murderer a gun.
Posted By: F4UDash4

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 07/11/20 06:36 AM

Originally Posted by Nimits
Originally Posted by BD-123
Whatever one thinks of the USSR, and particularly the egregious Stalin regime, one can't deny that the Soviet States were the main cause of the defeat of the Axis, if it is measured in blood.
Snipers for example:


Except that, from September 1939 to June 1941, the Soviets were the main enablers of Nazi Germany. For all the multitude of failings of the British and especially the French government and military leadership in 1939-1940, Hitler would never have been able to pull off the destruction of Poland and the defeat of France, at least in so short a time, if Soviets had not guaranteed his eastern front (and actively assisted in the destruction of Poland).

Crediting the Soviets with defeating the Axis would be akin to crediting a man for stopping a murderer after he had five minutes before just handed the murderer a gun.



+1


I routinely have to remind people, when they laud the USSR for "singlehandedly" defeated the Nazis in WWII, which side they started that war on. Seems most forget that part.
Posted By: KraziKanuK

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 07/11/20 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by Nimits
Originally Posted by BD-123
Whatever one thinks of the USSR, and particularly the egregious Stalin regime, one can't deny that the Soviet States were the main cause of the defeat of the Axis, if it is measured in blood.
Snipers for example:


Except that, from September 1939 to June 1941, the Soviets were the main enablers of Nazi Germany. For all the multitude of failings of the British and especially the French government and military leadership in 1939-1940, Hitler would never have been able to pull off the destruction of Poland and the defeat of France, at least in so short a time, if Soviets had not guaranteed his eastern front (and actively assisted in the destruction of Poland).

Crediting the Soviets with defeating the Axis would be akin to crediting a man for stopping a murderer after he had five minutes before just handed the murderer a gun.

10 American Companies That Colluded With Nazi Germany During WW2
https://newspunch.com/american-companies-nazi-germany/
Posted By: F4UDash4

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 07/11/20 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by KraziKanuK

10 American Companies That Colluded With Nazi Germany During WW2
https://newspunch.com/american-companies-nazi-germany/


The headline is a lie, as practically all the examples took place BEFORE the US entered WWII or even before WWII had begun at all.

Nor does a handful of countries having minor financial dealings with a country rise to the level of the leaders of those two countries conspiring to invade, conquer and divide a third country. It only makes for very, very weak "whataboutism".
Posted By: Sunchaser

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 07/11/20 12:43 PM

KraziKanuK , you might consider a bit of research regarding the sources of the stuff you reference.
Posted By: oldgrognard

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 07/11/20 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by F4UDash4
Originally Posted by Nimits
Originally Posted by BD-123
Whatever one thinks of the USSR, and particularly the egregious Stalin regime, one can't deny that the Soviet States were the main cause of the defeat of the Axis, if it is measured in blood.
Snipers for example:


Except that, from September 1939 to June 1941, the Soviets were the main enablers of Nazi Germany. For all the multitude of failings of the British and especially the French government and military leadership in 1939-1940, Hitler would never have been able to pull off the destruction of Poland and the defeat of France, at least in so short a time, if Soviets had not guaranteed his eastern front (and actively assisted in the destruction of Poland).

Crediting the Soviets with defeating the Axis would be akin to crediting a man for stopping a murderer after he had five minutes before just handed the murderer a gun.



+1


I routinely have to remind people, when they laud the USSR for "singlehandedly" defeated the Nazis in WWII, which side they started that war on. Seems most forget that part.


I was always a bit confused that the Allies declared war on Germany for invading Poland but not the USSR. For some reason the Russians got a pass on it. I chalk it up to Real Politiks where you just do the best you can to hold to your ideals balanced against the reality of having to succeed.
Posted By: NoFlyBoy

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 07/11/20 01:09 PM

Very few people know this but because the Germans were not allowed to rebuilt militarily and also hold military exercises after World War 1, they did it in Russia. Many of their tanks and planes were built in factories in Russia. The Army and Luftwaffe did their training on Russian grounds with Stalin permission.
Posted By: F4UDash4

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 07/11/20 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy
Very few people know this but because the Germans were not allowed to rebuilt militarily and also hold military exercises after World War 1, they did it in Russia. Many of their tanks and planes were built in factories in Russia. The Army and Luftwaffe did their training on Russian grounds with Stalin permission.



Very few of the general public knows that but I'm betting most of the members of this forum, being history buffs, knew it.
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 07/11/20 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by Sunchaser
KraziKanuK , you might consider a bit of research regarding the sources of the stuff you reference.



I’m sure he doesn’t care about research when you consider his past overtly anti-US posts.

No need to do that. So don’t.
Posted By: Catfish

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 07/11/20 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by oldgrognard
[...] I was always a bit confused that the Allies declared war on Germany for invading Poland but not the USSR. For some reason the Russians got a pass on it. I chalk it up to Real Politiks where you just do the best you can to hold to your ideals balanced against the reality of having to succeed.

As a german i did not understand this too for quite a while, this was not discussed at school here wink.
England had signed a treaty with Poland that it would help/defend Poland in case of a german aggression, not in case of a russian or any other one.
I guess what happened after WW2 with the annexation of Poland by Russia and England's non-reaction to this, could be described as Realpolitik.
Posted By: BD-123

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 07/11/20 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by F4UDash4
Originally Posted by Nimits
Originally Posted by BD-123
Whatever one thinks of the USSR, and particularly the egregious Stalin regime, one can't deny that the Soviet States were the main cause of the defeat of the Axis, if it is measured in blood.
Snipers for example:


Except that, from September 1939 to June 1941, the Soviets were the main enablers of Nazi Germany. For all the multitude of failings of the British and especially the French government and military leadership in 1939-1940, Hitler would never have been able to pull off the destruction of Poland and the defeat of France, at least in so short a time, if Soviets had not guaranteed his eastern front (and actively assisted in the destruction of Poland).

Crediting the Soviets with defeating the Axis would be akin to crediting a man for stopping a murderer after he had five minutes before just handed the murderer a gun.



+1


I routinely have to remind people, when they laud the USSR for "singlehandedly" defeated the Nazis in WWII, which side they started that war on. Seems most forget that part.


That is not my intention whatsoever, apologies if I did not make myself clear. I included the proviso, 'if measured in blood'. Only China, a nation often overlooked in that bloody conflict suffered more casualties, much of which was self inflicted by ruthless disregard for the home populace in measures to stem the advance of the occupiers, internecine conflict and rampant corruption. No Democratic nation would stand for the losses accrued by countries under a dictatorship.
All the allies played their part in the defeat of the Axis. Without the industrial awakening, adaptability and massive production of materiel, (fatally underestimated by the Axis Powers) of the USA, and fortunately for Britain a policy of 'Germany First', all that blood may have been spilt in vain. As well as US deployed manpower and equipment, I'm considering 'Lend Lease' here.
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 07/11/20 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by Catfish
Originally Posted by oldgrognard
[...] I was always a bit confused that the Allies declared war on Germany for invading Poland but not the USSR. For some reason the Russians got a pass on it. I chalk it up to Real Politiks where you just do the best you can to hold to your ideals balanced against the reality of having to succeed.

As a german i did not understand this too for quite a while, this was not discussed at school here wink.
England had signed a treaty with Poland that it would help/defend Poland in case of a german aggression, not in case of a russian or any other one.
I guess what happened after WW2 with the annexation of Poland by Russia and England's non-reaction to this, could be described as Realpolitik.



The USSR also committed several major atrocities against civilians in East Prussia and in Berlin but none of those in charge faced any repercussions after the war. As you said, Realpolitik.
Posted By: Nimits

Re: The Russians never waste the opportunity to show off how well they can hold a big pretty parade. - 07/12/20 05:38 AM

Originally Posted by oldgrognard


I was always a bit confused that the Allies declared war on Germany for invading Poland but not the USSR. For some reason the Russians got a pass on it. I chalk it up to Real Politiks where you just do the best you can to hold to your ideals balanced against the reality of having to succeed.

Well, remember, the Soviets did not reveal they were on the Nazi side until Poland was obviously doomed (and the French had been unwilling to do much to intervene even against Germany even in the beginning of the campaign when it might have done some good). Since there was no way for Britain or France to do much against Russia without going through Germany, there was not much point in going to war with them in 1939.

That said, serious planning was done to intervene on Finland's side against the Soviets in the 1939-1940 Winter War, but the war ended before the Allies could work out exactly how they would get their troops there (since Sweden and Norway were both still neutral).
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