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Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop

Posted By: MarkG

Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 12/25/19 09:38 PM

I picked up a couple of el-cheapo laptops from Office Depot, one for us and one for my parents. They'll replace our dying/dead Windows 7 laptops, although parents now mostly use Apple iPads (shown are Windows 10 and Linux Mint Cinnamon 19.3)...

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Lenovo™ IdeaPad™ L340 Laptop, 15.6" Screen, Intel® Core™ i3 [8th Gen - 8145U CPU @ 2.10GHz x 2], 8GB Memory, 1TB Hard Drive, Windows® 10
https://www.officedepot.com/a/products/9008531/Lenovo-IdeaPad-L340-Laptop-156-Screen/

A couple of selling points for me were...

- 15.6" LCD screen with 1366 x 768 HD resolution (my trifocals don't see so well my wife's higher-res work laptop, even with larger screen size).
- Plays and burns DVDs and CDs (optical drives not a given these days).

Nice bang for ~$300.00, IMO.

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I'm dual-booting mine with lots of testing, corrupting and factory restoring as I go (lol). Windows 10 vs. Linux Mint, so who wins?

To me, the champ is still Windows 2000 on my Dell 1.7GHz/512MB SDRAM/40GB HDD/Radeon 9600! biggrin

Many years of tweaking and streamlining...so lean, fast, smooth and business-like, with a Norton Ghost image of my entire partition including all production software ready to go (CAD, Dev, Office, etc.) fitting on a single CD with room to spare. A full dual-boot drive restore takes just a few minutes!

IMO, Win2k was the best NT as it was easier to deal with than NT4 and especially NT3.51. XP was the beginning of the end, the first NT that started offering the "consumer experience" of 9x/Me (also first with online activation). IMO, Windows has been ruined ever since. MS needs to bring back a lean no-nonsense production OS that doesn't insist on constantly reloading install icons of Candy Crush and Spotify on your PC (among other settings issues on updates, not yet confirmed).

One word I'd describe Windows 10 would be...unprofessional. As I understand it, the "Professional" version of 10 is not much better, only the Enterprise version (rental OS, 5-seat minimum) would give me the experience I'm looking for. This one lacks Microsoft's "consumer experience" and doesn't fight you for control of your own PC, although I'm sure it's still as bloated and cumbersome as Windows 7, but with 10's schizophrenic UI (is this for a tablet/touchscreen or traditional desktop?).

Of course, I can't go online with Win2k (my Win2k and XP desktops/laptops are physically connected to a hub with no modem), but I'm still of the mentality that a PC is a production tool first and source of entertainment second. I spent thousands of dollars on my first *real* PC (486 DX2 w/NEC 17" CRT) with no thoughts of gaming whatsoever, only computer drafting, programming and various office needs. But once I added a Creative Labs Soundblaster Multimedia kit (CD-ROM/sound card/speakers), my attitude about gaming changed...a little.

But I digress...

By comparison, I'm blown away with what you get for the money these days! woot

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Fortunately I've found the solution to making Windows 10 Home behave...

And that is to NEVER let it connect online! In my case, I started over yet again with a factory reset and in the initial setup, I withheld my router password (mine is a HughesNet router/modem combo). Cortana will #%&*$# and moan until you shut her up, and 10 will keep bugging and reminding you that it can't connect with messages like, "Ah snap, I can't connect" to "The Web just isn't the same without you" with pic of broken heart. Very professional, MS. I will never again connect with a Windows OS, only Linux (and the current Mint flies on this laptop, same Linux OS on my 2008 Vista laptop so it makes sense that it's so fast).

But for testing my Win2K compiled executables on current Windows, managing music, pics and very large drives, this permanently offline secondary-boot Windows 10 should serve me well. Eventually I'll figure out how to do most things in Linux, but for now my dual-boot is working great. Mom isn't ready to go Linux yet so she'll be going online with 10 (Edge, but still includes I.E.), so we'll see how that goes.

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Posted By: MarkG

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 12/25/19 11:47 PM

So now a long-time default function in the function keys is the secondary function??? confused

For example, F7 has been Spell Check in various word processors for as long as I can remember, but now it's Airplane Mode. Lol.

Yeah, along with the new funky UEFI BIOS and mandatory Win10 drive partitions, I've a bit to get used to (until I learn how to reset everything back to normal).

So far I'm seeing way too much change for the sake of change, IMO. Change is good when it makes sense, not so much when it doesn't.
Posted By: Arthonon

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 12/26/19 12:27 AM

The F-key change isn't a Winows thing, it's a Lenovo thing. Other PCs don't do that, while some do. Often there's a function lock, or something in the BIOS to make it a permanent change. That change was made because a lot of people prefer that functionality the way PCs are often used.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 12/26/19 12:44 AM

Ah, the BIOS "HotKey" setting...thanks. thumbsup

Tomorrow I'll start a methodical in-depth look at all BIOS settings then move on to features and settings of Windows 10 and the latest Linux Mint.
Posted By: Crane Hunter

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 12/26/19 02:18 AM

Operating Systems and user interfaces in general seem to be getting less and less intuitive in the last 10 years.

Its like they're going out of their way to maximize the time and effort it takes to accomplish a given task.
Posted By: Mr_Blastman

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 12/26/19 02:28 AM

My parent company is requiring me to upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10 in January. I am dreading this.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 12/26/19 03:52 AM

My biggest issue with modern OS's is their massive sizes with so many unneeded and sometimes forced features (Windows being the worst culprit). I'd pay to have the ability to install only those features I want, but this would require parts of the OS to once again be modular and independent. Like most 2000-era software, I want my OS and programs to be as lean and mean as possible, and to run only minimal required background services.

Take Office 2000 for example...you can install a bare minimum of files with a tiny footprint and tell the installer to install the other parts off CD "on first use" (while determining if a feature is even worth loading the CD for...a winking paper clip is not). Some software has a minimal "Laptop Install" where you install additional features only if you need them. You have lots of install options.

I'm not comfortable with an OS until I crash and trash it many times over, and smaller OS's are easier to manage and restore. As long as you know the ins-and-outs of your cloning/imaging software, you can easily and quickly restore disk/partition images at different stages of setup while experimenting. I've restored this new laptop back to scratch a couple of times just deciding which method of Linux dual-booting I was most satisfied with and learned some things about both OS's along the way. Every drive I use has multiple saved images at different stages, so I never worry about experimenting or HD crashes (which has never happened that I recall). It's still relatively easy to restore these behemoth OS's, just not so quickly anymore, nor with managing and storing their images, especially if you backup in triplicate.

That said, the free home version of Macrium Reflect seems pretty slick and has decent speed considering image sizes. I'll have to decide later if I'm going to upgrade my Acronis (~$40.00) that I used for Win7.

BTW, I never keep my personal/irreplaceable files on the same drive as my OS (regardless of OS default save locations), always on a different drive which I backup regularly in triplicate. Working in Windows 2000, all images and backups are so tiny by comparison. EDIT: Also, I feel like I have complete control over Win2k, it doesn't feel like it's fighting me like 10 does.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 12/26/19 06:03 AM

Just wanted to add...

1. It's nice to occasionally catch up with modern tech. 20 years from now I'll probably still be on Win2k (just love 2000-era software) but I never want to fall completely behind.

2. I'm more comfortable with the current Windows than Linux, although the gap is closing. The latest Mint is the most polished and Windows-like Linux I've used, but I wish it were even more like Windows (selecting a filename twice to rename it vs. having to right-click and choose Rename). Linux can be cumbersome by comparison, but this latest version is very good.

3. This laptop doesn't have the usual heavy bulky power brick, just a larger but light wall plug-in with thin cord. Sweet.

4. I miss the packaging...

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Posted By: Chucky

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 12/26/19 10:15 AM

You may already be aware but most of the 'fluff' in the start menu can be uninstalled (right click and if there is an uninstall option you can get rid),otherwise Ccleaner will dispose of a lot more if you are looking to trim it down further.

Personally,Win 10 to me is the best O/S for gaming but if I gave that up then maybe Linux,either Zorin OS (looks more like Windows than Mint) or Mint itself.

And yeah,when doing a clean install unplug the router,M$ really want you to create a M$ account and they made that difficult to skip with the latest build unless you go offline.
Posted By: Arthonon

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 12/26/19 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
My parent company is requiring me to upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10 in January. I am dreading this.

Technically, it's Microsoft that's requiring them to, because they're dropping support for Windows 7 on January 14th.

We're upgrading everyone at work, and for the most part, going from 7 to 10 hasn't been much of an adjustment for people, and most of these are non-technical people.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 12/26/19 08:44 PM

Thanks for the tips, guys. cheers

So far my learning curve has mostly dealt with a newer style BIOS (UEFI, sometimes needing Legacy settings for booting), making images with new mandatory partition, playing nicely with another OS on boot, and some administrative tasks.

As far as the UI, it looks to me like a tablet-centric version of Win7, although I've cleaned it up a bit (no Start tiles for me). But as mentioned above, at least (un)pinning and uninstalling is easy enough. I have no real problems with Win10 as long as it stays satisfied to be permanently offline.

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I have GOT to look into using "Virtual Box" one day (a recent video by an ex-Microsoft developer)!...

Microsoft Windows 2000 - Best OS... ever?...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6CS4zwU43Y
Posted By: Ajay

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 12/27/19 11:34 AM

Once you lean it out and get rid of the crap you'll be laughing G. I stayed on 7 for a few extra years because i dreaded 10, i was sold on it within a week once i trimmed it down.

I've never had a bsod, never been interrupted by an update, never had a virus/trojan or related issue, i cannot remember the lat time a program crashed or froze, everything i install old or new just works..mostly. Some older games/programs require some mucking around but nothing like the late nights and bleeding eyes of 20 odd years ago.

It's been about two years since my last fresh install and it just cruises along without any hiccups. Daily driver, tons of hours under its belt smile
Posted By: Mr_Blastman

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 12/27/19 04:09 PM

Hmm, so upgrading from 7 -> 10, say enterprise or professional, is still pretty easy? I don't want to reinstall everything.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 12/27/19 04:41 PM

I like your attitude, Ajay. thumbsup

Yeah, I can see one day maybe getting into Win10 the way I have Win2k with these dedicated books...

Microsoft Windows 2000 Registry Handbook
Microsoft Windows 2000 MS-DOS Command Line

...among others which have taught me how to take total control of my OS. I don't know if one even *can* take total control of Win10, especially while being connected. BTW, at this level you realize just how closely 2000 (NT5.0) and XP (NT5.1) are related, XP being a bloated 2000 with Fisher Price UI...and it's only gotten worse with each Windows version, IMO.

Meanwhile I'm running the same current Linux on a 12 year-old laptop as I am a brand new one (consistency), and Mint (Ubuntu-based) is considered a heavy distro, especially with the Cinnamon desktop. Some lighter versions of Linux even make my 1.0GHz/256MB RAM fly! But it's not Windows sigh and I have lots invested in Windows-based software (not sold on Wine yet, but Linux DOSBox is nice if a bit confusing to configure).

I'm posting this from my local library, their Windows books only go up to 8.1 and Linux Red Hat Fedora (2004). frown

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The holidays have wrecked my study schedule worse than I'd planned (family moving out of country so making an extended visit [which was nice], getting new laptops sooner than expected, lots of football to watch). I'm just going to play until the new year as I'm having so much fun with these laptops (Win10 supporting my old stuff pretty well so far, but much more testing to do). I like having access to identical new laptops, one with Win10 online and one with Win10 permanently offline, for comparison.
Posted By: Chucky

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 12/27/19 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
Hmm, so upgrading from 7 -> 10, say enterprise or professional, is still pretty easy? I don't want to reinstall everything.


You shouldn't have to,I never did when I first upgraded 7-10 although I do like a clean install so that's what I eventually did. If you do the upgrade, Win 10 retains the desktop look of your old 7 so you should feel at home and I find the menu layout easy to understand.


Posted By: Pooch

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 12/27/19 05:50 PM

Just coming over to 10, now? Well, welcome to the 21st century! Lol!! I think it's the least problematic OS they've released, yet. And, as has been mentioned, the best for gaming. Had it since it came out, when you could move over to it for free. Can you still do that on older systems?
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 12/27/19 05:54 PM

Concur with Pooch on WIN 10 being the best for gaming. Remember the driver and compatibility disasters when Windows 8 first came out? There was none of that with WIN 10. It's been a rock solid stable OS for me so far.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 12/27/19 06:26 PM

I feel that I should answer this one line-by-line... smile

Originally Posted by Pooch
Just coming over to 10, now?

Not my fault, it was pre-loaded on my new laptop.


Originally Posted by Pooch
Well, welcome to the 21st century! Lol!!

And that's always a good thing? Anyway, I've been using a current OS for some time now, just not Windows.


Originally Posted by Pooch
I think it's the least problematic OS they've released, yet.

The NT's have always been solid for me, although NT3.x could be finicky (and this was before Web support). I did skip Win8/8.1 though.


Originally Posted by Pooch
And, as has been mentioned, the best for gaming.

As a retro gamer (I've never considered myself a real gamer), Win10 was never a requirement. But I will use it for testing my own compiled Win2k executables.


Originally Posted by Pooch
Had it since it came out, when you could move over to it for free.

I used a 3rd-party solution on my Win7 laptop to stop the constant Win10 nag screens and forced upgrade.

BTW, I trust Microsoft not at all and would prefer to never give them another dime, same with Autodesk.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 12/27/19 06:34 PM

Another pic from the vault, part of my software graveyard...

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Posted By: MarkG

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 12/27/19 08:46 PM

If I may be allowed to soapbox vent a little on a current event (my thread was partially meant to be a vent)... smile

There's an issue that's happening now that I want to discuss, but first a little backstory...

==========
My wallet closed to Microsoft and Autodesk early-to-mid 2000's for different reasons. The Autodesk reason was that up until AutoCAD 2005, AutoCAD could be activated online or via phone call (if you didn't have internet). In both cases you received a static activation code (connected with serial# only, not hardware) to enter for your perpetual license which remains usable for any future installs and on any PC.

With AutoCAD 2005, you have to activate with each install to receive a new code, the original and follow-up codes won't work...for a perpetual license.

Autodesk has recently shut down their activation servers for all 2010 and previous AutoCADs, claiming they can't be bothered to support legacy activation technology. So much for having a perpetual license, right?
==========

Fortunately I won't be affected because, although I purchased a 2005 upgrade, I stopped using it (in 2005) when I found out how the new activation system worked (and would have never upgraded my 2004 had I known). This left me with going back to 2004 which is technically not legal as you're suppose to discard all previous upgraded versions. Yeah, right. I actually went back much further, figuring that if I can't stay current with AutoCAD any longer, I might as well go back to my preferred version which wasn't a recent one.

This is one reason I stick with Win2k over XP, although I have enough XP-era Dells with accompanying XP CDs in storage to last a lifetime (and I'm still on my original factory XP Dell, but with Win2k installed...PC hardware overkill)! biggrin After much testing, any one of my XP CDs is automatically activated on any of my Dell PC's, not just the PC it shipped with. I assume this is different for Win10 as it looks to me like Windows serial# info is stored in the BIOS, which I find a bit disconcerting.

Yes, a perpetual license means forever unless it uses online activation DRM (which I completely avoid, unless I receive a permanent future-proof code or static offline method of activation).

P.S. My most expensive, comprehensive and productive AutoCAD-based architectural/construction software runs in...MS-DOS. And DOSBox runs it perfectly. smile I think DOS support will never die, and now there is DOSBox for Linux.

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Edit:
AutoCAD - Previous version support change

If my current network licensing file includes products which are v2010 or earlier, will I be able to get an activation code?
No. Product version is validated during the activation process. Versions 2010 or earlier cannot be activated.

What about products that didn’t use the year as a version (for example, R10)?
All products using a non-year version scheme are included in the v2010 or earlier set of releases and can no longer be activated after August 31, 2019.

Why did Autodesk choose to make this change in their product activation process now?
The majority of our activation code generators are built on aging technology, some of which are no longer supported by the vendors that built them. Aligning product activation practices allows us to retire many of the unsupported generators which reduces risk and ensures that we provide the help you need.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 12/27/19 11:38 PM

Originally Posted by Crane Hunter
Operating Systems and user interfaces in general seem to be getting less and less intuitive in the last 10 years.

Its like they're going out of their way to maximize the time and effort it takes to accomplish a given task.


I deleted a longer answer before posting because I'm just rambling now. I'll make this short. smile

I think back to the 80's and early-90's when computers and software were exciting! For me it was visiting the Autodesk and Microsoft booths at COMDEX, or attending any number of smaller computer/software demos and expos (mostly in Atlanta). At one time I had three CAD magazine subscriptions along with a PC and VB mag subscription, it was hard to keep up (but remember we had no online).

New releases of AutoCAD (for me, starting with v2.5 in a 1987 LSU Continuing Education class...no college credit) were usually mind-blowing with so many new highly-requested features. It tapered off after 2000 (IMO) when now we were getting 2nd and 3rd ranked features which bloated the program and UI with too much stuff that nobody asked for. But what else could they do (before forced subscription) for yearly upgrade sales with advertising new features? I get that, but usually the user loses (unless you really want one of the new features). Diminishing returns in productivity, IMO.
Posted By: NoFlyBoy

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 12/28/19 12:43 AM

A laptop that you won't allow to connect online because the WIndow OS wants to call home all the time is pretty much a useless laptop.

Any laptop, PC, tablet, phone with no internet service and no internet access is useless nowadays.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 12/28/19 01:06 AM

Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy
A laptop that you won't allow to connect online because the WIndow OS wants to call home all the time is pretty much a useless laptop.

Unless you dual-boot to a non-Windows OS that can connect. smile


Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy
Any laptop, PC, tablet, phone with no internet service and no internet access is useless nowadays.

- Both my laptops (WinXP [originally Vista] and Win10) dual-boot to Linux Mint for going online.
- I had an Android tablet but hated the tablet experience, same with my Kindle Touch.
- Looking into ditching my flip phone for a Jitterbug (I don't need a smart phone as wife has a work iPhone...bless her for seldom being on it and putting it away when we're out together).
- When I'm not playing as I am right now, 90% of my PC usage is on a desktop with no internet capability and I'm very happy with it. smile


Posted By: Dart

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 12/28/19 02:32 PM

I'm going to have to go to Win 10 soon, as my Win 7 is looking like it has some corrupted files and crap, and my mighty repair disk has a crack in it.

I get where MarkG is coming from - not being able to really dig in and control the machine is the opposite of operating the operating system.

This is the trend of computing from the start, though. First we had to type in programs from text. Then, to make things easier, we could record those programs we typed in on cassette tape. Then floppy disks came along and we didn't have to type in programs any more. Then hard drives and actual operating systems, which required much, much interaction just to make them work. Then we got a GUI. Neat. Still had to do a lot of work just to make it run well. Now it's just taken care of.

The whole OS thing is one of trying to make it easier for the average user. And that means bloated systems (why do I need to download a driver? It should be included!) and lots of bells and whistles that are pretty.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 12/28/19 04:58 PM

Thanks, Dart. smile

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I cleaned up some of my posts on this thread to be clearer, especially with the current AutoCAD activation situation...

In summary, I can't activate my AutoCAD 2005 perpetual license on my new laptop (since activation was removed 8/31/19...my birthday smile ). Not that I care as I use 2000i with a permanent code, the most hated of upgrades as it had limited new features. 2000"i" was mainly a spit shine polish of 2000 but at full upgrade price. I actually love the idea now because I really like 2000 and using polished software, even if at the time we thought the polish should have at least been discounted.

++++++++++

But why 2000 (20 year-old software)? A lot has to do with the mentality of Autodesk and the AutoCAD community to that point (oh how I still miss the nerdy CompuServe AutoCAD forum...before the CS - AOL connection).

AutoCAD out of the box is practically worthless, always has been, always will be. Even for 2D floorplan construction drafting, it's not that great (BTW, I've only recently learned 3D).

AutoCAD doesn't begin to shine until you roll up your sleeves and make it your own!

As an extreme example, I'm stripping down the program like a car engine, rebuilding it piece-by-piece with new parts (commands, dialog boxes, menu systems, etc.) while discarding what I don't need (mostly internet-related jazz). From 3D modeling and terrain generation, to creating a flight-specific 3D graphics calculator, my final 'game dev' version of AutoCAD 2000i will hardly resemble the stock program.

And this is the Autodesk mentality from decades past, and why Autodesk once provided a Customization Guide the size of the User Manual in a box that could give you a hernia...

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From what I can tell in my admittedly limited current-environment experience (occasionally visiting businesses), the mentality of transforming the software *on that level* is no longer actively encouraged by Autodesk nor embraced by its users. Also, gone are the lean mean easily customizable versions of AutoCAD, now limited by its massive cumbersome bulk.

I think I understand why these changes are happening, I just can't go along with them.

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Posted By: MarkG

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 12/28/19 09:26 PM

Going to show a couple more older pics, my office is still the same (except dead Acer laptop in second pic)...

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The laptop on my desk remains my main portal to the online world except when I unplug, sometimes for months at a time, to...correct my priorities.

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Posted By: Haggart

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 12/29/19 01:09 AM

MarkG how's your dad going to enjoy playing Fortnite or Overwatch with that laptop ? biggrin
Posted By: Ajay

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 12/29/19 01:15 PM

Is that picture the Simpsons?
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 12/29/19 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by Haggart
MarkG how's your dad going to enjoy playing Fortnite or Overwatch with that laptop ? biggrin

I'd never even heard of these until recently as a young family member has a Fortnite addiction that's giving him some real trouble. I can relate to online addiction, I'm ok as long as I keep it to SimHQ. smile

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Originally Posted by Ajay
Is that picture the Simpsons?

Yeah, like the Saturn V it's a puzzle, although mosaic (wife projects for the man cave)...

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Some AutoCAD...I need a bigger space!...

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Posted By: MarkG

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 12/29/19 10:40 PM

One more OT post (it's been a sweet reflection)...

Windows 2000 commercial...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCzBS11xPkQ

...but now I'm going to get serious with testing Win10 and Linux, mainly to see just how well they support my legacy programs and games (Windows and DOS). But first I have to go next door to see why my mom's wireless Cannon printer has stopped working in Win10, but still works in Win7.

I've got three more days to play and experiment, then on Jan. 2 I'm back to my brain-melting studies (some of November and December already lost, I'm at least 3 weeks behind now). I'll report anything interesting.

our_readers
Uh, this one does.
eek2
Posted By: Flyboy

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 12/30/19 01:45 PM

I only upgraded to Windows 10 recently after using Windows 7 for the best part of 10 years. I put off the transition for as long as possible because I listened to all the people complaining and naysaying, but honestly I don't have a problem with it. A few cosmetic tweaks and it's really just like using... well... Windows. Windows 10 is a very powerful and functional modern OS that I'm enjoying using, albeit on a system that exceeds the hardware requirements significantly which can only be a good thing.
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 12/30/19 01:48 PM

Holy cow. The space-time continuum ceased to function in Mark's office circa 1993.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 12/30/19 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Holy cow. The space-time continuum ceased to function in Mark's office circa 1993.

Lol. Plus I live in the boonies with sketchy cellphone service and satellite internet! I've had family tell me that visiting my home was like walking into a time warp. biggrin Some adjust better then others.

But I want to point out that this isn't so much about nostalgia or being a Luddite than it is about control, and that's not something I'm not willing to relinquish. It's also about tinkering and for my PCs to never try and protect me from myself. I take full responsibility for what I do with them and have so for decades. For example, I would never trust any built-in OS Restore or Snapshot tool, wishing I could bypass installing them.

Also, the current AutoCAD activation issue is just one example of why I will never rely on online activated software or SaaS, and I'm thankful that my favorite version of AutoCAD (and Windows) is activation-free. But now I'm learning that my new laptop has a Windows product code burned into the BIOS, and I don't like where this is going...at all.

If I didn't have such an investment in, and even love for, older Windows software, I'd go total open source (starting with Blender under Linux). If I find that Win10 can't properly run my own Win2k compiled executables (not likely), that's what I'll do...start over on open source. It's the only current software I trust.
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 12/30/19 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by MarkG
that's what I'll do...start over on open source. It's the only current software I trust.


I recall that you don't play any modern era games at all so going open source may indeed be a great option for you.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 12/30/19 04:01 PM

Although not open source, this is my biggest temptation to go full Linux, an AutoCAD clone for Linux...
https://www.bricsys.com/en-intl/bricscad/

It even supports the customization I'm currently learning, AutoLISP and VBA (when absolute speed-critical isn't required, for this you still need C/C++/C#).

The killer for me is that BricsCAD copied AutoCAD's Ribbon interface which I CANNOT STAND! As bad as it is for Office-like products, it absolutely SUCKS for fluent computer drafting, IMO!

But then I also won't go Chrome Browser because it doesn't offer an optional old-school pull-down menu interface like Firefox.

I hate that Win10 uses the Ribbon for everything.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 12/31/19 07:34 PM

Some goober perspective...

From my 1993 receipt pic on this thread for additional RAM...
https://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4453294/1

4 x 4MB simms RAM: $624.00 (16MB)

That's $39.00 per MB. This $300.00 laptop includes 8GB RAM.

8GB of RAM in 1993 would have cost me: $39.00 x 8,000 = $312,000.00! eek2

If my rough draft percentages are correct (ratio costs of RAM to total unit), this laptop, had it existed in 1993, would have cost me around a million dollars!

Now consider that this current baseline model in '93 would been light decades beyond bleeding edge (in reality, unusable smile ). And since you pay for bleeding edge, let's double the price to $2,000,000.00 USD.

Pffft...i3 piece of crap. biggrin
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 12/31/19 07:51 PM

Nice comparison you made there Mark and it really shows in a stunning way just how cheap PC hardware has become over the past 30 years or so.


To go a bit further back check this add out. So for 256k internal memory and a 15 MB hard drive you pay only 5 grand!











Attached picture 3F952BFC00000578-0-image-m-51_1493119169922.jpg
Posted By: Arthonon

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 12/31/19 08:17 PM

And those prices aren't taking into account inflation. $39.00 in 1993 is the equivalent of $68.44 in today's dollars.
Posted By: F4UDash4

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 12/31/19 08:24 PM

Recently I saw a 1980 add for a VCR, $750 for the player and $15 blank tapes. That is, with inflation, $2500 / $50 today.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 01/05/20 04:57 PM

sigh

Well, for the moment I've surrendered to Win10, resetting my laptop to factory once again and starting over the normal way, with the exception of not creating a Microsoft Account. But I am online with it now <shudders>, by request from my mom and wife.

My mom was having trouble with hers (coming off Win7) and I figured the best way to help her was to have a similar experience (our two identical laptops are now setup almost exactly the same). Unlike my father, my mother has always had an aptitude for computers, retiring from the FAA as a certified network administrator back when the FAA was transitioning from Novell to Windows 2000. But now she's 80 and not so quick on the changes (also sharing my Luddite attitude a little smile ). So no Win10/Linux dual-booting for me, just a straight-up 10 experience (although I refuse to use the terms "app" and "cloud", access the "store" or enable Cortana).

Just noticed that after a mega Windows update (1909), OneDrive has returned and I can no longer uninstall it. At least Candy Crash (whatever that is) hasn't returned.

++++++++++

How about some positives (I try to be fair)?

- Win10, although schizophrenic (Microsoft's misguided vision of a unified experience, the same UI for all devices), it's pretty smooth (much attributed to new hardware, no doubt). I actually like the Start Menu better than 7 (but not 2000/XP...mine is well organized). I still wish for a leaner meaner business (vs. commercial) version, like the early NTs.

- Win10 runs my BlitzBasic (game dev middleware) programs perfectly, even with being Win2k-era and DirectX7-based. You only have to enable DirectPlay and 10 makes that very easy (although the community has released a newer 10 version without DirectPlay, Blitz3D now being free and open source). I'm very happy so far with 10's BlitzBasic (Amiga compiler ported to Windows) compatibility; although I'll likely continue as I was (2000/XP desktop next to XP/Linux laptop [Linux for online]). I now have a Win10 test machine and my results so far are very encouraging.
Posted By: Mr_Blastman

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 01/11/20 06:42 PM

Trying to upgrade to Windows 10 today and it is already a nightmare.

Never in my life has this been easy.

Today, I buy a 10 Pro key from Amazon, go to Microsoft to get the upgrade tool, run the tool, and... NOPE. YOU CAN'T UPGRADE, INELIGIBLE VERSION.

I am running Windows 7 Enterprise N

This version of windows can't be upgraded to anything but Windows 10 Enterprise which is subscription only. #%&*$# that. I will not pay a subscription to use my PC.

So... my only choice is to downgrade Enterprise to Pro. BUT.... big problem here. I don't have a 7 Pro key.

I'm screwed.

I hate computers. This is why I got out of the programming/IT biz 15 years ago... sick of all the nonsense bs.
Posted By: JimK

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 01/11/20 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
Trying to upgrade to Windows 10 today and it is already a nightmare.

Never in my life has this been easy.

Today, I buy a 10 Pro key from Amazon, go to Microsoft to get the upgrade tool, run the tool, and... NOPE. YOU CAN'T UPGRADE, INELIGIBLE VERSION.

I am running Windows 7 Enterprise N

This version of windows can't be upgraded to anything but Windows 10 Enterprise which is subscription only. #%&*$# that. I will not pay a subscription to use my PC.

So... my only choice is to downgrade Enterprise to Pro. BUT.... big problem here. I don't have a 7 Pro key.

I'm screwed.

I hate computers. This is why I got out of the programming/IT biz 15 years ago... sick of all the nonsense bs.


The reason I gave up years ago, found out the hard way same as you. I have the same operating system and bought the 10 upgrade from Microsoft website. Wound up installing it on a fresh drive keeping
the old system safe. Trouble was once the upgrade started it had to find the old and validate upgrade. This is where it all went downhill fast. Finding out that over half of the programs I use will not work
in windows 10 I gave the install upgrade. Rolled it all back to get rid of it all.
Posted By: Mr_Blastman

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 01/11/20 07:12 PM

I have to upgrade for work. I have no choice.

But I need a 7 Pro key to downgrade...
Posted By: FsFOOT

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 01/12/20 08:39 AM

MarkG; Nice!

Yah I really like Linux Mint. Using 18.3 and 19.2 Mate version on 2 Laptops. Really solid.


Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman


Trying to upgrade to Windows 10 today and it is already a nightmare.

Never in my life has this been easy.

Today, I buy a 10 Pro key from Amazon, go to Microsoft to get the upgrade tool, run the tool, and... NOPE. YOU CAN'T UPGRADE, INELIGIBLE VERSION.

I am running Windows 7 Enterprise N

This version of windows can't be upgraded to anything but Windows 10 Enterprise which is subscription only. #%&*$# that. I will not pay a subscription to use my PC.

So... my only choice is to downgrade Enterprise to Pro. BUT.... big problem here. I don't have a 7 Pro key.

I'm screwed.

I hate computers. This is why I got out of the programming/IT biz 15 years ago... sick of all the nonsense bs.



I sympathize but only so far. I wouldr just go to the second hand shop or whatnot and get a used Laptop with Win10 on it. For $200 you get the Laptop and the OS.
Or better yet, just tell your job you are leaving unless they pay for the OS.
Even better; quit serving bthe M$ eco-system of corporate slavery and take a serious Linux course for your new job and learn a career that will never go away~!


Originally Posted by JimK


The reason I gave up years ago, found out the hard way same as you. I have the same operating system and bought the 10 upgrade from Microsoft website. Wound up installing it on a fresh drive keeping
the old system safe. Trouble was once the upgrade started it had to find the old and validate upgrade. This is where it all went downhill fast. Finding out that over half of the programs I use will not work
in windows 10 I gave the install upgrade. Rolled it all back to get rid of it all.


Having been a tech that wrangled with Windows since my Win95 upgrade to the 3.11 486DX2_66 PC I started with. I never paid for a single M$ product since a mentor bought me the Win95 upgrade disk and classes at School. Second hand products gave me all other until recent.
When XP went out I started switching to Linux.
I have slicked Win7, 8.1 from various machines. Now using Linux Mint here although I occasionally use other versions in the Ubuntu / Debian ecosystem.

Would I want a Win 10 or other version machine now? No, there is no use for me.
Even if I hack it to death there is always a new twist the latest M$ SOB's throw at one. From telemetry to Got-Ya! 's of all sorts.
I got off the un-merry-go-round.

I liked some M$ products for what they were useful for. But frankly they always throw you a weird curve ball at some point. Its like you have a nice car and then they want you to fork over $155,000 for a Tesla. F that! I don't need a Tesla. Tesla has nothing on what I can do with that money I can have 10 nicer and faster cars then you can by from Tesla.

I wish I hav never learned M$ products I would have like $MIllions now if I had stayed in the real geek world and learned Linux, its like 10x the salary now of M$ IT positions and hardly any cost by comparison.
Sadly I didn't.

Yes I'm a Linux installer now but the population is brainwashed by M$ and their manipulations. Hardly anyone will even try Linux now here in the U.S, Maybe in Europe they have better Intel?

I could hardly get anyone to use my services in the public sector because they are too stupid to actually know the power of a real computer.
That's actually the point of Android also btw. Nice that the general public can use a phone. But bad that everyone now becomes their corporate clone-drone cash-cows to milk the life-blood of freedom from.
Like the rest of the modern day trends is all disguised to 'making you smarter' when its the opposite objective they want.
Next the robots will be serving up everyone the automatically paid groceries their smart-fridge ordered to their cashless- society card and if there is a power outage they all starve.

And who need the buyers choiice anyway when an AI can make better decisions what you should eat on your diet or your doctor orders it for you, etc.?

Sorry for a bit of a rant, but its half true in reality from the sci-fi novel already!


Posted By: Mr_Blastman

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 01/12/20 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by FsFOOT


I sympathize but only so far. I wouldr just go to the second hand shop or whatnot and get a used Laptop with Win10 on it. For $200 you get the Laptop and the OS.
Or better yet, just tell your job you are leaving unless they pay for the OS.
Even better; quit serving bthe M$ eco-system of corporate slavery and take a serious Linux course for your new job and learn a career that will never go away~!



Before I got into finance 15 years ago and began writing novels, I wrote code for UNIX variants such as Solaris, Tru64, AIX, Linux, BSD, etc. and automated AI between many systems as well as processing code for bank to bank transfers of money, etc. Preaching to the choir here. =)

My desktop that I use every day needs to be Windows 10 as I'm an independent advisor and I don't want to take the risk with client data that it could be exposed through Windows 7 nonsense. I have been stalling as long as I could because frankly I cringe at doing computer work anymore.

The reason I got out of the computer business can be summed up as I reasoned one day, "What's the point of learning new ways over and over, again and again, to do the same thing?" In that industry we'd always learn a new language to do the same thing. A vision of a ballpeen hammer bashing skulls in materialized in my mind, as Einstein once said something along the lines of, "Why memorize something when you can look it up?" The whole logical paradox of learning new languages or versions or whatever violated a core tenet of my inner self, which is "Keep things simple stupid."

Thus I left.

But right now, this is my own little hell again because I'm wrestling with nonsense that shouldn't even be.

I got Enterprise N downgraded to Pro N. Now I'm trying to get 10 to upgrade Pro to 10 Pro while retaining my apps. Microsoft makes very little simple.
Posted By: Mr_Blastman

Re: Initial experience with Windows 10 on new laptop - 01/12/20 06:32 PM

Now I need a Windows 10 Pro N key, not a Pro key. Microsoft can go to hell. Awful company run by awful directors.
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