Star Wars Episode 7 and 8 (and 9 later next week) discussion.

With Star Wars Episode 9 arriving next week, I am rewatching Episode 7 today and Episode 8 tomorrow.

One question I have immediately and there may be more later as I progress through the 2 movies.

In Episode 7, how the hell did Poe get off Jakku and then finding his way to the resistance?

I can't remember if Poe ever mentioned it specifically but I just assumed that he was able to find a contact with the Rebellion on Jakku and then stow away on some freighter or other similar ship.

Having said that, I've found the Disney SW movies to be pretty decent but they have not elicited the same kind of visceral feelings from me that the original trilogy did.

I will watch Episode 9 in the theater because I want to see how they will end a saga that began in 1977.

But I am not holding my breath for anything spectacular or intelligent or logical in term of story and explanations.

If they are really wrapping up the main storyline then i'm imagining a RoTJ type ending. All of the ghosts having a hug out while Rey looks on and everyone else parties in the background.

Maybe some Ewok throwing.

No Ewoks!

I hate those Ewoks!

I do want to see more of Lieutenant Connix.

More specifically, Disney is wrapping up the Skywalker storyline.

One of the new movie theaters here is not happy to be like the others that have IMAX 3D, IMAX 2D, XD, X3D, D-Box or just plain digital non 3D.

They also have:

4DX https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4DX

and

ScreenX https://www.screenx.co.kr/screenx/screenx.php

Both made in South Korea.

and

RPX https://www.whitenoisesound.net/rpx-vs-imax-one-shall-choose/

The ticket price for matinee first show or 2nd show of the day for those 3 options above range from $19 to $27.

You can imagine how much they are at night after 6 pm.

Hell No Way!

I got tickets for just the regular digital non 3D show, first show on Friday December 20th at 9 am, for $10.28 including tax and $1.75 online purchase convenience fee.

That's why I don't like going to movies nowadays.

They make you buy the tickets in advance online and then want to add a $1.50 to $2.00 convenience fee per ticket.

I watched Episode 7, 8 and Rogue One.

7 was okay but it's a remake of Star Wars.

8 was a movie about women who want to be in charge but can't make up their mind because they are women.

Rogue One was good.

Episode 1, 2, 3 and 7 and 8 should had been like Rogue One.

An good popcorn sci-fi movie without preaching and the PC and the annoying characters.

Rogue One is by far my favorite of the Disney-era SW films. It simply "worked" on every level.


The thing to remember about the Lucas prequels is that they were for the most part made for kids. "Revenge of the Sith" at least was an improvement but it could have been so much more.

I didn't watch the whole thing but I heard George Lucas didn't show up.

If that is true,

Why?

He started a world wide phenomenon 42 1/2 plus years ago, he should be there for the finale.

You do know he sold the franchise for a reason right? Lucas was simply done and wanted to move on to whatever new chapter awaited him in life.

Oh yeah, and the 4 billion Disney paid Lucas was just a slight motivator too...

I know he sold Lucasfilm which include Star Wars and Indiana Jones which Disney will be messing up next.

Still, if I were him, I would still had gone to the premiere.

Indiana Jones was already messed up big time well before Disney bought LF.

https://news.sky.com/story/star-war...-as-stars-turn-out-for-premiere-11888769

Early reviews suggest it could end on a high.....

Well, two things about that. Number one, early views always get better responses than when the movie comes out because people are excited to see it first, they're usually connected in some way, and they don't want to be mean. Number two, The Last Jedi has a 91% Rotten Tomatoes review score, so good reviews do not really mean a good movie, only one that pleases critics with specific agendas (it has a 41% audience score).

This is a valid point. Of course from Disney's perspective the movie still made a huge profit so that's ultimately what mattered to them. Star Wars is one of those rare franchises where you can have a high percentage of fans who complain but sure enough will stick around to watch the next movie.

It made money, and even though I hated The Last Jedi (it's the only Star Wars movie I saw in the theater that I didn't buy the Blu-Ray for), I did still pay to see it once. However, there is still a financial hit for that to Disney - I think people didn't go see Solo partly because of a reaction to TLJ, and if you look at the numbers, TLJ is well below The Force Awakens:

https://www.boxofficemojo.com/showdown/sd1648162308/

Another article about initial reactions, calling them "mixed"
https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/ne...-BBY4KdG?li=BBnbfcL&ocid=mailsignout

I expect only the worst from Episode 9. The teaser basically condensed much of what was wrong with Ep 8, and if that's supposed to whet my appetite, well, they're wrong. I'm no longer interested in the main storyline. It's a bit of a pity that Solo was actually decent but bombed because of Ep 8, but then again the reaction from top management that it was just a symptom of an awful audience rather than having made an awful film is an indicator that with these people at the top they will continue to make idiotic decisions and keep throwing established canon under the bus in pursuit of a stupid SJW agenda and cheap visual thrills. In summary, count me out.

If they don't answer any of the questions that they raised in 7 and 8, I will be p o.

I know somebody in the industry that saw it.

What I heard from her... is, well... pretty disappointing...

I think the press and critics are going to eat it up, and the majority of Star Wars fans are going to be very vocal about their hatred of it. There were some very, very, big swings of that bat with this movie that leave a ton of questions that don't get answered.

Myself? I'll wait for the DVD...

Your mileage may vary...

Guess I will have to tell my kids I am getting a refund on our pre-purchased tickets and that we are not going

Nah, don't do that.

They might really enjoy it. :-)

For the die-hard Star Wars folks who have been around since the beginning, it may be a little hard to swallow...

That would be me.

If I didn't have any kids, I will be willing to wait for the DVD or digital download.

I don't need to see it right away.

Plus it costs more now to take a family to the movies than to a nice dinner.

One almost needs to take out a 2nd mortgage just to afford going to the movies.

There are spoilers all over and they confirm all the leaks from a year ago, even the reshoots. SW are hating it, but honestly to me they are a bunch of whining #%&*$#, this is a new star wars not old. BUUUUT, they really done the original gang dirt. they failed miserably at that....remember r2 ? well he doesnt sell as well as the new robot.....suck to be you.

If what I was told is correct, there really didn't even need to be a 1 through 6...

It's horrible what Disney has done to the franchise. I'm all for a "New Star Wars", but don't use characters of the old to sell your movie and then obliterate how those characters came to be.

Just do what more and more consumers are doing and wait to see it at home on a streaming service.

After the last farce, I believe you. No point in seeing this one.

I'll probably see it in the theater, partly because I don't want to hear all the spoilers if I'm ever going to see it, but mostly because I'll be visiting family about the time it comes out and can see it with my oldest brother, who took me to see the original Star Wars movie when I was a kid.

There are two issues at play here.


For me personally, the Disney SW films have been decent but rather forgettable with the exception of Rogue One which in my opinion was very well made and it had the perfect mood to it. As a result, I have had ZERO interest in buying any of them on bluray with the exception of Rogue One.


The other issue is the "big picture" and by that I mean the creative direction that Disney has decided to take with the franchise. All of these rants and complaints from some of the hardcore fans are really for nothing if the films are doing great business at the box office. Sure, "Solo" disappointed but to me that was an anomaly and what mostly hurt it was the fact that it came out less than 6 months after Episode VIII. A true indicator of a declining franchise and overall fan disenchantment will be if Episode IX does poorly at the box office. If that were to happen (which I doubt), you better believe that the Disney execs will re-evaluate their business plan.

Another factor, IMO, is the weird kind of expectations that certain demographics expect. Star Wars is a fantasy space fairy tale, aimed at 12 year old kids. The movies should be watched with that in mind.

When the original SW came out I was literally 12, and it was great. ESB came along a couple of years later and it was also great. But by the time ROTJ came out, I was seeing the cracks but enjoyed it for the sfx spectacle (my other passion). The problems seem to stem from the 30-40-50 year olds who expect to be as thoroughly entranced as they were when they were little kids, and that just can't happen, either the tone remains the same and people outgrow the tone but don't recognise that, or the tone changes and people don't recognise it as "the same".

Now that pretty much any movie can have top-quality sfx, I don't feel I need to watch SW for that, but another factor in the SW universe is design, it's always had great design. I can watch it for that

Excellent post DM!

When you read about all of these rants and complaints on social media about the Disney SW movies, you'll notice that they are not coming from kids or teenagers. They are overwhelmingly coming from people over the age of 30.

Yea I'm in this group. These Disney films haven't been doing what I want to see, but hey, I'm not the target audience, right?

For sure, Star Wars always had some fun visual effects. But for me it was easy to go in looking at the visual drama, and with each viewing, look at the characters and story a bit more subtly. Looking at the characters and story were the main reasons why I'd revisit the Star Wars original trilogy in the late 1990s and 2000s. Let's face it, the 70s and 80s visuals can look a bit dated compared to the latest CGI stuff even from mid-budget movies, so finding that kind of visual wow-factor can be done easily in countless other films that followed 1983.

Even when it comes to the Star Wars prequels, putting aside the many criticisms about acting, dialog, and similar, at least the characters and story progress with a sense of continuity toward what they were aiming to support.

This is perhaps my biggest fault as I watch the Disney films. At this point, I'm not going in looking for a visual effects display. If I were, well, the new films certainly deliver. If that's the qualifier for an excellent film, then fine I guess. But the reason I'm watching new Star Wars films is to see where those 40 year old characters and story are taken to their conclusion. And what I've seen so far regarding this has not felt like it's got the same sense of "convergence" or whatever you want to call it. There are some bits and pieces that seem to make sense, but other elements feel like they are completely disconnected from who those characters ever were before. To the point that after the 2nd new film, I don't even care if I see the 3rd one.

Some of this is very likely due to the first 6 films having been guided by George Lucas (for better or worse, I leave to the reader). From what I gather, the Disney people didn't want this, and after the prequel's poor fan reception, I'm pretty sure Disney didn't want to risk "Return of the Prequels" by having Lucas hand on the films. And so the resulting final development of these characters does not appear to have come from a singular story design arcing through all 3 new films, or even much regard for strongly connecting those old established characters, nor with where they are taken in the new films.

Or maybe that's all too much what's wrong with *me* as the viewer. Hey Star Wars is a kiddie film! I didn't think as hard about the plot or characters in Frozen or Moana, so why bother here?!

I wouldn't take it to this extreme but I think you have hit on one of the major issues. I think too many fans over-analyze the Star Wars films when in fact Lucas never meant for his Star Wars universe to be put under such intensive intellectual scrutiny. He has himself been quoted that the main inspiration for Star Wars was the 1930's Flash Gordon serials. In other words, pure escapist entertainment with great visuals.

I think the issue I see with this line of thought is that most of those older people liked Rogue One. I think it shows that if you make a good Star Wars movie, they'll like it, and that the other Star Wars movies they don't like, they don't like because they are not as well made, not because they didn't get the same thrill as when they were 12.

Also, The Force Awakens made a lot of money, and The Last Jedi did too, but it made a little more than half as much as TFA, and I think that indicates that people were excited for a new Star Wars movie more than TFA was a great movie. The Phantom Menace made more than the following prequels, but I don't think that means it was better, it was just meeting pent up demand. As a percent, the other prequels didn't drop as much as TLJ did after the initial movie, so I don't think it was just the older Star Wars fans that were disappointed with TLJ.

Of course this is just one critic review but many of the insights provided I found interesting,

https://variety.com/2019/film/revie...ridley-adam-driver-jj-abrams-1203445811/

Tomato meter currently sitting at an abysmal 55% with 118 press reviews.

It would appear, what I have been told is correct.

Dammit.

Edited to add -- Rouge One was an absolutely stellar movie, IMHO.

I don't watch films for special effects, ever. I watch them for story. If all a film has to offer is special effects then I pass.

The writing in the new films has been steadily declining. The Force Awakens was okay, and you could tell Larry Kasdan was at work with the way the plot progressed and the characters developed, but by halfway through you could see producers at work screwing around with his script and it became ad nauseam regurgitation. Everything spiraled downhill from that point in subsequent films, save for Solo which had a decent script(yeah, I'm one of /those/ who thought Solo wasn't bad, but based on the writing and screenplay alone, Solo wasn't).

I gauge these films like anything else I watch and that's the quality of the writing, plotting and character development alone. Not as a Star Wars fan. I've seen far too many films and read too many novels to hold an attachment to one franchise or another. But if the core fundamental elements that comprise a good story are not met, my interest wanes, and so does my assessment.

The Last Jedi was horrible. It failed in so many ways in the writing department that there is no way the next film can recover. The franchise is dead. That script never should have been produced into a film. I know they had issues, and the patched it together by committee, but it was a disaster, as has pretty much everything since TFA sans Solo.


I get the kid angle. But the original films had more than kid appeal. They followed "the Hero's journey" and while doing so gave us decent character development and excellent world building. The pacing, plot twists and sci-fi setting were a bonus--but these films stand the test of time. They had amazing special effects for the time, but they didn't need to special effects to succeed because the quality of the writing was solid enough to carry the films and the special effects did what I believe they should have done in that they enhanced the experience. No, they weren't perfect, either--the "red shirt" moments at the end of the film were a great example. But the universe felt so alive and vast and anyone who watches the original trilogy for the first time I dare to not feel as if they want more.

There's no reason to want more in the new films because the writing does a very poor job touching all the elements we need to have the same experience the old films gave us. Where they betray us the most is character development--perhaps they excel at character betrayal, but development is next to nil and the plot devices used, and progression, are poor.

If a film has a bad plot, unless there's brilliant comedy or sparkling dialogue, producers should do the right thing and drag the script out behind a shed and give word to the firing squad.


Maybe this is why I dislike most modern kid movies, or most of the ones I have seen. But anyone producing these new Star Wars films should realize they aren't crafted for kids alone. They should be for the fans of old, the kids of new, and whatever troglodytes are left living under rocks who have never heard fo Star Wars--to sell them on the franchise, of course.

Maybe I will drop my kids at the movie theater and go pick them up when it's over.

The oldest is 13.

The youngest is 9.

Or have Grandpa go in my place.

Grandpas always love spending time with their grandchildren.

Indeed, Lucas never intended or even expected the intensity of fan involvement with the story the original trilogy presented. But I am not satisfied that this is a good reason not to have realized that this situation had actually developed. As long ago as 1999 it was evident, and I think that the treatments of the 2nd and 3rd prequel episodes show increased recognition and adjustment to this reality by Lucas himself.

Twenty years on, this is not a mystery for modern writers. The situation is probably even worse now, as far as those who complained back in 1999 (me)... as I am 20 years older and and am on the way to becoming a curmudgeon by late middle age!

Solo bombed because Ep VIII was so bad. Top franchise management however seems to have made the conclusion that Star Wars fans are a horrible audience that simply hate women. This is very unfortunate, as is their destruction of established canon (the Holdo maneuver) for the most pathetic of all reasons, a stunning 10 seconds special effects scene. 70% of the overlength film were a waste of time as nothing that Poe and his gaggle of friends do bears any consequence whatsoever for the plot, nor did it help much to develop their characters. The remaining 30% are a mix of the implausible with the groanworthy stupid, and the slaughter of canon that lays the axe on the very foundation of all prior movies. If you can destroy ships by lightjumping through them, why haven't the rebel used jumpdrive equipped obsolete ships under control of driods to defeat the Stardestroyers of the past. How are capital ships even a thing. Why didn't they teleport a massive freighter into the Death Star. Why did Adm. Holdo wait until her whole fleet had been destroyed before sacrificing the last remaining ship to take out the flagship of the enemy fleet. Why are there even thousands of people on board of a space battleship when a single person can fly the damned thing from the bridge, and even get the jumpdrive timing right (okay, not every jumpdrive needs Chewie and the hydro wrench, admittedly).

Ep VIII was worse than Ep I, which was just completely superfluous. Nothing of what's shown in Ep I is required to understand Ep II. But at least Ep I doesn't destroy canon. Ep VIII however was downright destructive, and the closing words of Leia Organa were utterly delusional. With the entire Rebel Fleet consumed save for the flying junkyard of the Millenium Falcon she dares to utter the words that they "have everything that we need. We have hope!"
Not only flies that into the face of reality, it's also really great leadership there. All your dead buddies? We never really needed them. Move on, everybody.


God, Disney really made me hate the Rebellion by now.

Of course it is impossible to quantify just how many people stayed away from "Solo" when it was released due to the Rian Johnson backlash but I'm inclined to say that it was only a minor factor. Why? Because the vast majority of the multiplex audience falls under the "casual fan" category which means that they don't care that much to pay attention to details about whether or not established canon is being respected or whether or not there is some SJW agenda. They just go to see the great special effects and to be entertained.


The much bigger factor to me was the fact that Solo was released too soon after Episode VIII so that meant too much market saturation and audience fatigue.

Solo is the only new Star Wars I've not seen. Can't recall why actually, but probably will at some point.

For me, it was a decent effort. Not terrible and yet nothing really memorable. I may watch it a second time but I'm in no rush.

I agree, there's no way to really know how much VIII impacted people going to see Solo, but it was definitely a factor in my not seeing it. I think audience fatigue could be included too, as I was fatigued at how awful the Star Wars movies coming from Disney had been. I didn't want to have to sit through another bad one.

Solo was the second best film of the new series, after Rogue One IMO. Mind you, not as good as Rogue One, but certainly better than Episode I or II (okay, that bar is low). It respected canon, it demonstrates that So, "okay". "Decent". "Quite adequate". To be honest, I wish they would make more films like this and give the main stroryline a mercy killing. Which seems to be the case with Episode IX, from what I'm hearing.
The Star Wars univers is vast. There's tons of stories to tell. Just, please, no more déja-vus. I mean, The Force Awakens was a two-hour long déja-vu. A remake of a film that I like, so in itself not the worst move they could have made, but too much of a copycat to stand on its own legs. We had desert planets before, adolescent junk collectors before in which the force was strong, masked villains, hooded overlords, plane-busting starkiller space stations, swashbuckling fighter jocks, cuddly robots, space taverns teeming with alien creatures. What we didn't have before, ever, was a storm trooper turning good. And what do they do with Finn? They turn him into a sidekick. These are the kind of movie sins that I cannot forgive.

So, rather than rehashing everything for the nth time, explore the seedy side alleys of this universe. Tell us the youth of Solo (check), what happened before Episone IV (check), covert Jedi ops (The Mandalorian, check). These are projects where the writers have considerable creative leeway. Give them freedom, I say. That's why I think that Solo deserves more love. It's not a great film, but definitely not horrible either. It deserved success because it went into the right direction, and apparently the Disney top management is no longer capable of telling the difference between a good script and a horribly bad one. Credit where it's due, Walt Disney did. He may have been a better business man than artist, but at least he knew what was necessary to build a collective of creative people that could make great films (also a few mediocre, and one or two plain bad ones, but still a way better than average track record over multiple decades).
Todays' Disney managers know everything about IP protection, Franchise Management, Cross Media Marketing, Cash-flow management and a gazillion other important skills to run a multi-billion dollar empire. But they have lost their touch, completely, when it comes to identify<ing good skripts and how to protect the long-term value of the probably most valuable entertainment brand in their portfolio.

I read 2 online reviews today giving the movie away and I am not happy with what I've read.

I will still see it tomorrow because I promised my kids we will go see it tomorrow on their first day of 3-weeks Winter break from school.

After reading those reviews and also taking into consideration my hatred of Episodes 1-3,

to me, there will always only be 3 Star Wars movies.

call me mean spirted, but as a trekkie seeing all those fanbois crying and raging, its...its....mauhauhuahhauhar
there are still the series, that kennedy doesnt have much of a hold.

Well, to me, Abrams raped and pillaged Star Trek as well, The first Star Trek movie from him was dumb and bland, but the second was offensively bad. I think he was trying to pay "homage" to STII, but ended up insulting those who liked it. From everything I've seen about him personally (well, almost everything), he seems like a really good guy, someone I'd like to hang out with, but I don't think I've liked anything he's made.

a. What a blessing, that Star Trek doesn't suffer from similar symptoms
b. Fortunately the late works are just the same quality as the original series
c. Fortunately, there's not a single bad Star Trek film. They're all good. No weaknesses.
d. Paramount has always been a blessing, and been nothing but supportive of the fan community


Closing remarks: Star Wars is less unscientific as Star Trek. At least there's no time travel.

awww. did i hurt your feeweeng ? your clearly missed the point but whaaaaatever.

I think part of the issue is writing evolves, which is good because if it did not then the same stories over and over would be boring. But the problem is that despite it evolving, the screewriters, producers and scripts by committee are ignoring the fundamentals of strong storytelling and that's why these films are bad.

Finn being a main character would have been awesome. #%&*$# shame he was ignored. So much missed opportunity. Same with Snoke.

The new films violated a cardinal rule and that is they ignored the universe that had been created and instead operated outside the confines and boundaries that were already established--particularly with Luke, Han and other characters. Break this by rewriting how a universe works after it has been long established and everything falls apart.

See Episode 1 "midochlorians" for reference.


This is worldbuilding 101, FYI.

Pfft. Try to impress someone else with your level 1 trolling.

Just saw it with my daughter, we luked it. Our two local cinemas were packed to the hilt, all sessions. We thought Palpatine was a good comeback character, he has one very epic scene, you'll know it when you see it.

I'm leaving the luked it misspelling in, seems appropriate.