Borderlands 3

My way-too-early review of Borderlands 3.

I am a big fan of Borderlands 2. It was my first foray in to the franchise. I had read for several years about the game, but don't really think I knew what to expect. It is often described as Diablo with guns. Having never played Diablo, that didn't help me much. But what I read about it sounded fun, so I tried it. And loved it. It clicked on every level -- the characters, the gameplay, the humor, the gunplay and the guns. I bought nearly all of the DLC, and ended up getting over 500 hours out of it, making it one of my most played games of the past decade.

I tried all of the mains, and liked Gaige, Axton and Zero. The first two I played all the way through to Ultimate Vault Hunter Mode, which is like a new game plus, and then plus again, each time retaining all of your skills and weapons, but playing through the campaign with higher and higher difficulty, insanely so at times. The weapons are fantastic and fun, and I couldn't begin to describe all the weird and wild variations.

The characters in BL2 also stand out, and some are among my all-time favorites. Clap Trap, Tiny Tina and Mr Torgue were awesome and I still quote them regularly. And Handsome Jack is one of the best evil overlords ever in my view. The game was well written and for me at least, funny as hell. It's just a fun game.

So Borderlands 3 then has a lot to live up to.

I completely missed the announcement for this game, so when it was released it took me by surprise. That was September, so I gave it the customary couple of months to get the kinks worked out and bought it when it went on sale.

I started as Zane, the operative. His thing is gadgets, and he uses a drone, a clone and a shield as his Action Skills. I played him to level 8, but it didn't click. I thought I'd play him sort of like Axton, but he felt sort of underpowered, and the Action Skills were underwhelming for me. The drone was cool, like Axton's turret in a way, but his style didn't resonate with me. After getting killed twice by the game's second boss, I decided to roll a new main, and chose the Siren, Amara. Honestly, none of the four mains for BL3 light my fire, which is unfortunate. The other two are FL4K, the beastmaster, and Moze, a mech-gunner. But I won't really know if I like them until I try them.

I wanted to use Amara like I used the mechromancer Gaige. A build to focus on Kill Skills and gun damage, but here with an emphasis on elementals. And so far it's going great. She's level 13 now, and can definitely hold her own, feeling appropriately powerful. It seems to me that Amara is in a good place, but the others less so. It will be interesting what Gearbox do with the others. I expect a lot of tweaking from the devs, and who knows what mains will be released as DLC?

And while I see the mains as uninspiring, the guns are not. BL3 takes the concept from BL2 and expands on it, with even more crazy creations and combinations. Most guns now have a secondary mode. For example Maliwan guns might let you switch between shock and fire damage. Or your assault rifle might have a grenade launcher or a tazer attached. A sniper rifle with a missile launcher or shotgun attached. The sheer variety is mind-boggling, even beyond the last game. For me, the weapons are even better, although as a Maliwan devotee I'm not sure I like the fact these weapons now have a charge-up time which takes some getting used to. But elementals are part of my build, so I soldier on. I'm using Jakobs weapons a lot more in BL3 too. Tediore weapons got a big re-work. Instead of just being thrown like a grenade when reloading like BL2, your gun might now home on an enemy. It might sprout legs and chase the bad guy, shooting the whole time. It's a hoot.

The weapons and combat were a big strength of BL2 and I'd say it's even better now. At it's core, this is what it's all about. That, and the loot.

One let down for me is the fact that Handsome Jack is replaced by a pair of live-streaming twins, the Calypsos, who simply pale in comparison. Handsome Jack is one of my favorite all-time characters in a video game. He was awesome. The twins are well, annoying. I suppose that also counts as motivation for defeating them and their evil ways. For me though they are a disappointment. Claptrap is back, and there's something about the way his dialog was recorded that doesn't sit right. It's like the timbre (is that the word I am looking for?) is off and it's slightly annoying. Can't quite put my finger on it. Overall, for me so far, the writing, humor and characters are not up to BL2's level, but then again, a sequel needs to surpass to feel equal in a sense. You need to move forward just to appear you're standing still. Not exactly fair, but it's the way it is. The last words of your victims though is still a riot, with endless variety. One guy last night said as he was dying "My chili recipe dies with me!" I approve of this

I still have a long way to go, but I'd sum up BL3 like this.... If you loved BL2, you will love BL3. In many ways it is essentially more of the same. Frankly, that's all I wanted, since I thought BL2 was so good. For me, the characters, both mains and NPCs, are weaker, but that's offset by even better weapons and combat. And really, that's why I came, for all the wonderful weapons and amazingly satisfying combat action. If you did not like BL2, there's nothing here that will change your mind.

Good review DBond.


The simplest way I can put it for me is that the gameplay, weapons and loot mechanics in BL 3 are improved over BL 1 and 2 but the story and new characters are not as interesting. I only play the BL games in cooperative mode so that may skew my opinions on the game a bit.

If you can get the Telltale Games "Tales from the Borderlands" interactive story, I HIGHLY recommend it. It was really well done, very entertaining, and lots of LOL moments.

Who's your main Panzer? How far in are you?

So we agree then. I've dabbled in co-op, and frankly Borderlands co-op is among the best there is. More games need to follow Gearbox's lead here. Bill Grant and I almost hooked up for some in BL2, but we never quite got around to it. Looking at the skill trees though I noticed it seemed like there were a lot less party support type skills than BL2 had. Less emphasis on it anyway.

It's fun solo, fun co-op.

You know what I miss? Spending badass tokens. I wish they hadn't reworked it so it requires story completion.

I played Tales Bill, and while I thought it was well done, those sorts of point and click adventures aren't really my thing. Expertly written though.

I've been playing as Zane and I think I'm on Chapter 16 so I'm pretty far into the main story. I've liked the Zane character so far.

I think my problem with playing solo in the Borderlands games is that I simply find it to be such a dull experience compared to playing in coop mode. Just like some other games like the Serious Sam series and Ghost Recon Wildlands and Breakpoint, the Borderlands games are really designed to be played cooperatively.

Cool, thanks. I might give Zane another go at some point. Maybe once his trees are filled out more I'd take more of a shine to him. Do you have a favorite weapons manufacturer in BL3?

It's true that Borderlands is a great MP game, but that shouldn't put off any solo players. There is a ton of fun to be had in single player, and you get to keep all of the loot yourself!

I know for certain that I prefer the elemental weapons over the non-elemental ones (Jakobs I believe?) but I don't have a favorite manufacturer among those which offer elemental weapons.

I asked because certain builds can be tailored to take advantage of the characteristics of certain manufacturers. Just curious which route you may have gone.

My Amara build is designed to spread DoT statuses over a large area. It's insanely strong against mobs. I need elemental weapons for it to work well, so lots of Maliwan and spin-up times. Jakobs work well too because so many of their weapons have the ricochet-on-critical modifier. The build is heavy in to the orange tree, a little in blue for the rush stacks, and none so far in green.

Shoot one guy and the four near him all burst in to flames too. Lots of fun. This build is a bit weak against bosses though.

I like the Dahl weapons too, but these are non-elemental, but sometimes you just gotta go with what you've looted if it's stronger. Hyperion, CoV get sold straight away. Vladof and Torgue are evaluated for their charms and kept or sold as desired. Tediore I use for the laughs. Maliwan though are the best suited. A boss (Giga Mind) just dropped a legendary fire pistol and it just melts with these skills.

Not only weapons got a substantial rework for BL3. The shields, explosives and class mods are pretty good too. I returned to Sanctuary last night before shutting down, and decided to spend a golden key hoping to find a really good shield. First roll and I got a legendary shield that doubled the capacity as well as adding a number of other sweet bonuses. I try to keep the golden key spending to a minimum, maybe one every 4 or 5 levels, but it's awesome when it really hits with what you need.

Yeah, I try to discipline myself to not get carried away and use too many keys in a short span of time. I've also learned to check out the Gearbox Twitter page every #%&*$# evening for new golden keys!

I've got a bit of a stockpile. That's another perk of waiting after release. Many keys expire, but some do not, so I was able to pretty easily get 15 or so before playing. I've just spent two or three so far.

Has anyone done the Bloody Harvest thing? I talked to Maurice, which I guess opted me in. I got the ecto from just playing. But not sure I want to go in to the Heck Hole. The event expires in 3 days. Is it worth it? Would you recommend it? At level 13 any loot I get will only be useful for a short time.

I'm tired of the dam/n ghosts already and I've just been playing a few days. So at least those will only last a little while longer. They do drop some good loot sometimes though.

I've played it twice with my usual gaming friend and it's basically just fighting large groups of enemies through a Halloween-themed map (at night of course) and then at the end you fight a big boss who gives you a decent amount of loot when you defeat it. I'd say it's worth playing at least one time.

Thanks PM, Maybe I'll give it a go. I can't imagine putting up with these ghosts for the past month. After just a few days they've become annoying for me, so looking forward to the end of the event. If the frequency were cut by 90% it would be OK. They're like floating loot boxes yes, but there's plenty of loot everywhere so I won't miss 'em.

I said earlier that who knows which new mains would be released as DLC, but I read an article that said there are no plans for new mains. KInda surprising really, but maybe those DLC didn't do well? I bought 'em.

Has anyone played The Pre-Sequel. This is actually the most recent title, after BL2, but I bought BL2 instead and never got around to TPS. I wonder how it stacks up? Reviews are positive.

I really enjoyed the Pre-Sequel and since it was made by the Australia division of Gearbox there are some characters in the game with the stereotypical "bush" Aussie accent.

There are a couple of planets you visit that have zero G so that was something new to the typical BL gameplay.

Thanks, I think I will get it. Now that I am in to BL3 I've been reading the gearbox boards and I see folks make mention of playing Jack as their main, and I'm like when was Jack a main? Did I miss a BL2 DLC? But no, it was TPS.

FWIW, I went to Heck Hole and had no trouble up until Capt Haunt, who smoked me so fast it made my head spin. Some of the boss fights in this game are outrageous.

A few more observations about BL3 now that I've played long enough to hit level 20. I'm digging the game, but one thing that's struck me is that BL3 is not nearly so weird, wild and whacky as BL2 was, and is worse for it in my opinion. It's not as funny either. These things were a huge part of what I liked about BL2, but here it seems they went with a more cautious approach. Or maybe they just didn't pull it off as well.

As fun as I think the game is, quests are mostly fetch, which most folks have grown tired of over the years. I just see it as a reason to go there and shoot things. But the quests are a simplistic and old school. I wasn't expecting different honestly, but I think it could have been better.

Two new elements have been added, radiation, and cryo. My main's build is centered on elemental damage, so virtually all of my attacks are designed to spread these statuses. Irradiated enemies damage those close to them, and cryo attacks slow, and when frozen the target can be shattered by melee.

I'm glad I switched to Amara from Zane. The most fun character I've played in Borderlands was Gaige from the BL2 DLC. I liked the run and gun style, the ricochet-centric combat. My Amara build plays similarly. Her action skills are cool and effective, and the way I've built her makes battling mobs lots of fun. With the right skills, her elemental attacks can spread to nearby enemies, and can add additional effects. For example, an attack with a shock weapon may apply that, plus fire, and a third random status may proc, like corrosive for example. So one attack could apply three different statuses to multiple enemies, making fighting mobs a lot of fun. It never gets old seeing your targets burst in to flames.

The build isn't great for bosses though. Some have been very difficult for me, but it's Borderlands after all. One however, I absolutely smoked it. That was Kawagawa Jr. Everything went perfectly, I never came close to dying. When his lootsplosion rained I ran up to see what fantastic new gear I got and found nothing better than green! I was so disappointed. Not a blue, not a purple and no legendary of course. The RNG loot gods should have rewarded me for such a flawless performance on this fight, but instead mocked me with crap loot. Not even a stinkin' rare. Why have you forsaken me, loot gods?

I can't remember their names but there were a couple of bosses from the first two Borderlands games that were incredibly tough and could not be beaten unless you had a full party of 4 human players. These were bosses that that were not part of the main story but were side missions.

Do you recall specifically which ones from BL2? I soloed that game many times over, but curious if I failed to beat the ones you're referring to.

Probably Terramorphous, and yeah, I didn't do that one.

I just googled it and yeah, you're right, there were a bunch I didn't do

Verminous
Vordicaus
Dexiduos


Others, like Pyro Pete, are hard, but I was able to beat him.

That's the one! Terramorphous. The first Borderlands game had a boss named "Crawmerax" which was virtually unbeatable unless you had 4 players.

I didn't play BL1, but I met his son in BL2

That was part of the Hammerlock DLC if I recall.

The dragons in Tiny Tina's DLC were really hard too if I remember. The lootsplosion though was epic

All of the raid bosses were really hard.

Recalling BL2 makes me want to play it again. There are a number of references throughout the new game to the older ones. I saw a conversation with a NPC and Claptrap. The girl said something like 'Oh my goodness, the real claptrap? I feel like I'm in the presence of a hero! You defeated Flynt. Jack. The stairs!' hehe

I'm really having a blast with this game. The guns are great, the skills are cool and the combat can be intense. I've hit level 27, a little more than halfway through the first run. I continue to be disappointed in boss drops. I don't recall BL2 being so stingy. Most of the bosses have dropped nothing above green, and one had a single blue. Only one has dropped a Legendary, that was Gigamind. He dropped a level 12 pistol called the Expert Hellshock. It was so good I used it up to level 20. It's fire rate, damage and elemental chance were all really high for the level. Good gun.

Two bosses died at the same time I did, the second being Billy. When I died I hadn't realize he had too. With my blood up having seemingly come so close to killing him, I rearmed and ran back in to give him the good news to find him a frozen purple statue (that yielded crap loot). That death cost me $18k. If I had just switched guns at the end instead of waiting for the SMG to reload I wouldn't have fallen. But these fights are so intense that I sort of saturate and I miss stuff. I have to focus on whatever I am focusing on and miss things. It's mayhem. And some of these bosses are no joke. Except the Warden. He's one of the harder ones apparently, but I killed him in less than two minutes. He is supposed to go through five levels of transformation, from normal to god, but he never got past the first. Some builds will just be perfectly suited to a particular situation I reckon. The Rampager though, good grief, that aged me a couple of years. I was down to 10hp at one point, but eventually prevailed. I was seriously pumped up after that fight.

Maybe Graveward will drop me some good stuff.

I suppose in TVHM or Mayhem I'll start to see better drops? It's cool, there's plenty of amazing gear, but a legendary and epic or two from a tough boss fight isn't too much to expect is it?

Some folks at the Gearbox forums talks bout how they play this game, with posts like "I farmed so and so for 12 hours and it never dropped the gun I wanted". And I think to myself how can someone do the same exact fight for 12 hours straight? If I ever get like that just shoot me

I am wondering if anyone might wanna hook up and run through the story on TVHM with me when I get there?

Or not. Well, if anyone wants to try the co-op let me know. It can be BL3 or BL2. It's best if each player is close to the same level, which complicates it all, but even that isn't a requirement. A lower level player would level-up fast, but none of the drops would be usable for a while. My business closes down for a month starting at Christmas so I will have plenty of free time if anyone wants to give it a go. I have a level 35 Amara to run through TVHM with, and a level 50 Gaige and level 45 Axton for BL2. And a low-level Maya, see below.

And Graveward did indeed drop a legendary. This was the hardest fight for me yet. I often read that some players consider him the easiest farm, but that fight wasn't easy for me. I died six times, but five of those were for falling off the platform. Doh. On the other hand, Pain and Terror (a play on Penn and Teller) was easy and quick, and some claim it to be very difficult. It all comes down to the build and gear I reckon.

I've set BL3 aside for a bit, with just the last two chapters to go. I want to wait for the DLC/patch that drops December 19. This is suppose to restore functionality to the Guardian Ranks (like Badass rank from BL2) which is currently broken. I want those bonuses for TVHM.

In the meantime I've started another BL2 run, this with Maya who I hadn't played before. Got her to level 10 last night, with a bit of farming. I'm rather anti-farm. I struggle to understand how players can play this game in the least enjoyable way (farming the same fight over and over) in order to get the best gear and in turn making the game as easy as possible. It doesn't make sense to me when taken to such extremes. A bit here and there isn't bad. But I did want a good gun for the early game. And one of the very best in BL2 is the Unkempt Harold (play on Dirty Harry). This gun is insane, and the farm isn't too hard. I spent a half hour or so getting it.

Here's how this gun works. It's awesome.

When I decided to reinstall BL2 I was very happy to see I had cloud-saved my characters. This is the first time I think I've actually benefited from cloud saves ever. And I saw that it had been exactly four years since I last played, Dec 7, 2015. And I somehow had 140 golden keys. Good grief, that's cool and I can spend those lavishly if I choose.

BL2 is a great game, and with all of the DLC there just so much to do, so much variety (environments and enemies especially). BL3, so new as it is, seems small by comparison, though this starts to change a week from today.

Maybe the Guardian Rank is already fixed? patch dropping today

Patch Notes

Of course they choose to word it like this

"addresses reported issues with Guardian Rank "

Fixed or corrected nowhere to be seen. They'll be gabbing about it on the Gearbox boards so that'll show if it's working again. Since I haven't completed the first run I cannot check myself.

When I finish my current playthrough of B3 with my friend I would be more than happy for us to play a 3 player coop game. We're pretty close to the end of the game but it's difficult to tell how many more hours of game time it will take to finish it.

OK cool. Once I am done with the first run I'll hold off on TVHM, and then we can all start it together. I reckon I'll be around level 37 when the story finishes and can mayhem up a few levels if necessary so we are all around the same place, but of course I do not know where you'll finish. Some players finish at much lower levels. In BL3 I only have a leveled Amara specced as an elementalist with a thing for Maliwan SMGs. I'll be free starting around Christmas as mentioned so working it out shouldn't be a problem. Let me know what level you finish up.

Playing BL2 again now shows where BL3 made improvements. BL3 has better weapons, shooting and movement. You don't get hung up on the environment like in BL2. The vaulting is a nice addition to help scale verticals. Vehicles are better too. They drive better, more fun. BL3 has a long way to go to catch BL2 in most respects, so I'm curious to see how they fare with the DLC.

But they nearly ruined it with the annoited enemies. I really hate those that have an immune phase.

I'm level 36 and I just recently came back to Pandora which looks like is the final phase of the main storyline.

That should dovetail nicely. With the Guardian ranks apparently fixed I'll take it back down off the shelf and finish it up. We should both be within a level or two of one another at that point. Not sure how long the final two missions will be, or if I'll struggle against the last bosses. BL3 missions seem shorter on average than BL2. In BL2 last night I did both the Firehawk and Dam Fine Rescue missions, and those are quite long.

A few more of my random thoughts and observations, mostly compared to BL2. Eridium and storage deck upgrades are both reworked and better in my view. In BL2, eridium is used to upgrade your storage and backpack. In BL3 it can still be used to buy things from Crazy Earl, but it's mostly cosmetic stuff like skins. I don't care much about that. But you can also spend eridium in his vending machine, which gives annoited gear. This is nice and helps fill the gaps when RNGeesus is failing to shine down upon you. I've gotten most of the shields I have used from that vending machine. Although I now have a shield called the Red Suit and it's really cool, it gives constant radiation damage to any nearby enemies. Storage upgrades now cost cash, which I like. Money meant little in BL2 after the early game, but at least now there are some very expensive upgrades to spend it on.

The inventory system is mostly the same, but a little better. The biggest improvement is surely the bank. In BL2 you start with about five slots, and can increase it by two slots for increasing amounts of eridium. In BL3 though, you start with 50 slots and can grow it to 300 with cash. That's a huge change. If you just play through once it won't matter much. But if you want to be able to swap stuff between characters, or just to save your best guns and items after they've been outleveled it's great. There's no equivalent to Claptrap's secret storage, it's just a shared bank between your mains. At least I think that's how it works. I'd need to start a new character to see for myself. You can also decorate your room on Sanctuary, and store/display weapons and other things on the walls.

I said earlier that I like the vaulting, but I think mantling is a better word, right? Regardless, it's a nice addition, as my multiple attempts to scale some verticals in BL2 can attest.

One of the changes I like best in BL3 is the fact that you can customize and switch your action skill(s). You can swap out the skill on the fly to suit the situation. I've only dabbled with Zane and done a full playthrough (nearly) with Amara. With her, I have several actions skills to choose from, whether it be phasecast for a ranged attack, phasegrasp for CC or phaseslam for close range. I can swap shock for fire, and there's also an augment to further enhance the action skill, such as the Allure augment which acts like a singularity grenade from BL2. These must be unlocked through the skill trees, so there's some opportunity cost involved. You can respec anytime on Sanctuary to try out new combinations.

Slag is no longer a thing and the the New Game ++ will be better for it. That was a tedious mechanic.

I think just about every change has been for the better. It just needs to catch up content-wise. DLC like Captain Scarlett, Mr Torgue and Tiny Tina made BL2 a better game for me, not to mention the UVH upgrade packs for higher level caps and new mains. Gearbox has said they plan no new mains for BL3 but hopefully that changes. I'd buy a DLC that simply imported previous game's mains in to BL3.

Absolutely. I distinctly remember having between 2-3 million bucks after doing a complete playthrough of BL 2 and the DLC's with nothing really to spend it on since my character already had super potent level 50+ legendary weapons and gear. In BL 3 I'm lucky to have more than 200-300k at any one time.

When you and you friend play you have it set to cooperative, and not coopetition? If I understand this, it means that if we play together and open say a red chest, each player can loot it, and each will see a different set of items. I don't see your stuff and you don't see mine, but we can then trade. Is that how it works?

Same on boss drops?

Have you fought Troy yet? He's next for me. Speaking of Troy (and Tyreeen).... they've grown on me a bit. I don't see them as lousy villains unworthy of the franchise any more. Not Jack level for me, but not as bad as I first thought.

Yes, we always play on "cooperative" and that is exactly how the loot boxes/chests work. No, we haven't fought Troy yet but I suspect we will very soon.

Jack is the absolute best villain in the entire BL saga so he's a hard act to follow. Troy and Tyreen have been passable for me. Not horrible but also not memorable.

Cool, thanks for the confirmation. Which main does your friend roll with?

I'll fire it up tonight and see if I can defeat Troy and then it's just one chapter remaining I believe. My plan was to then apply the Guardian ranks, and then hang out for bit in Mayhem 1 to see what it's all about.

I had thought that enemies would scale to the highest level player in co-op, but I read a comment that said he saw enemies at his level, but his friend saw the same enemy at his different, lower level. So maybe I don't have to worry about continuing to level a bit if I play some Mayhem 1 after finishing the main story in NVHM? I thought it was best for all players to be close to the same level when playing together, but maybe it doesn't matter in BL3?

If I finish before we're ready to hook up I'll just keep playing BL2 for a while. I'm really enjoying the replay. Fun game.

Troy's no joke. I got him on the second try, once I could recognize his pattern and had a plan to counter it. But he's a tough fight, solo anyway. There are three chapters after that point I think, not just one like I said.

He dropped a sick legendary Maliwan sniper rifle called the Krakatoa. Turning in this mission took me to level 36.

I finished the NVHM run. Level 38, but very nearly 39 which tripped soon after. From around Jacobs Estate to the end I didn't do much in the way of side quests. I could see the levels creeping up and didn't want to go too high so there would be some room to go up in TVHM and so I stuck to the story missions near the end. Level cap is 50 currently.

The game really picked up near the end. The last third of the game was great, the environments at that stage were very cool and looked fantastic. The story isn't going to win awards I don't think, but it's not so bad, and it was good to defeat the twins. I found each of those boss battles difficult. My build is better for mobbing, and not so strong against bosses. Only three bosses did I think were fairly easy (Warden, Katagawa Jr and Pain and Terror). But again I think it's down to my build and gear just matching up well with those. For the rest, maybe not so much haha. Still, I was able to get by most in one go, a few took some retries.

I think only three bosses dropped a legendary, but near the end I got quite a few from a variety of sources. Those guns are fun, but the catch in this game is it won't be long before they're outlevelled. I guess that's why many players go to level 50 as quick as they can then just play the same things over and over. They've grinded out all of this awesome gear, and at level 50 it's forever useful (until a DLC that raises the level cap). I'm not in to the grinding and just use what I've found. Some weapons are so amazing that they are still useful long after you'd think, according to level.

Finishing the story unlocks the mayhem modes. These modes make enemies tougher and increase the good loot drops. I've messed around a bit in M1 and the loot is noticeably better already. I can play again in the new game plus, TVHM, or there are a number of gaunlet and arena type challenges too. These tend to be where the grinders grind. I'll check them out at least.

One disappointment is when the story is finished, the Guardian levels unlock. I expected that over the course of the first run, all of those challenge notifications were indicating that I was piling up the tokens. And when it was unlocked I'd have a lot to redeem. But I had just one. I guess you need to begin earning them only when after completing the game, not just spending them at that point. Aside from the stats boosts like in BL2 badass ranks, there are a number of perks that can be bought, and some are pretty OP. One that I definitely want gives you full health and shields when gaining a second wind. That's strong. And there are quite a few more, but they cost a lot of tokens so won't come easily.

As for my main, Amara the Siren, I think it's a good character with diverse and powerful skills. But as I said, the way I built her was good against mobs, but not so much against strong, single enemies. For the first run through NVHM, if you want to hit the capstone on any one tree, you're going to be investing in that almost exclusively. I was over level 30 before I capped the Fist of Elemental tree. So to branch out in to another you'll either have to compromise with uncapped trees, or wait until near the end of the first run. My build was focused on elemental damage, DoTs and spreading those status effects through ricochets and explosions. That's what makes it so good against mobs. If they are fairly close to each other, attacks daisy chain through the lot. Not sure honestly which tree to branch in to, but respecs are unlimited so some experimentation might be in order.

A few thoughts about some of the notable weapons I used...

Abundant Stark Krakatoa -- this is a legendary Maliwan sniper rifle. It looks unremarkable perhaps at first glance, and my roll had just a 2.7X scope. It also has incendiary effect, but curiously at 0% chance. That was odd, so I tried it. Killing an enemy causes that enemy to become am erupting volcano, spewing lava all over the area. Like a manifestation of the build itself. Cool gun

Firesale Long Musket -- A legendary Maliwan SMG that is a parody of Elon Musk's claim that his flamethrowers weren't actually flamethrowers. Absolutely melts anything nearby. The ideal gun for ratch mobs and the like. Combined with the skill Personal Space it means anything near will die quickly.

Backfire Red Suit -- A Pangolin legendary shield that gives constant radiation damage to nearby enemies. The backfire roll makes it also a spike shield. For a melee character this would be unbelievable, but even for mine it was still awesome. You'll never be surrounded for long with this thing on.

Razrez the Dictator -- a legendary Vladof assault rifle that fires three bullets at the cost of one, in a tight group that doesn't diverge. Aiming down the sights increases it to 7 rounds. Graveward was a boss I found hard with my build, but this weapon, and what it can do to critical spots, should make him a much more manageable proposition indeed. It's not elemental, which is the only drawback for my main. I'll keep it for a different character. It would be an awesome gun for Axton.

Expert Hellshock -- legendary Maliwan pistol with a very high elemental chance, fire rate and damage. It carried me though the teen levels.

Mostly though I used Maliwan SMGs, whatever was the best I could find. Kept a few on hand to swap around to whichever element the enemy was weak to. Radiation damage felt the strongest, but maybe that's because few enemies resist it? I also sniped a lot, but that's a given for me in Borderlands. I always use homing grenades too, although I guess they cannot be rolled with elemental effect. Never found one with it. I got a couple of very cool legendary rocket launchers, including one called Nuclear Jericho, which was much more like artillery than a rocket launcher. But I didn't use them much at all, and rocket launchers can be sold for good money so that's where they went most of the time.

Having played through it my take is that Borderlands 3 is a better game mechanically than Borderlands 2, but not better artistically. And by that I don't mean the literal artwork (BL3 looks much nicer), but how the story is written, the dialog, the gags, the weird, wild and whacky. Not poor by any means, but for me it had a lot to live up to.

Mayhem mode has proven to be loot city. Not sure what everyone complains about. Higher mayhem levels should give even better drops, and I'm just messing around in M1. I decided to test out my newest gear and mayhem mode by running through Athenas. The Chupacabra there is a good source for legendaries, and it has Maliwan troops which are fun to fight. In about 45 minutes I had like five more legendaries, and mayhem scales to your level or close to it. Common enemies drop all sorts of purples and blues and anoited gear too. And even found this in a fridge. Holy smokin' lightning. This was one of the holy grail grenades in BL2, and I have to wait a level to use it. But man, and out of a freakin' fridge. Not the first time that's happened, but talk about luck.






And actually I do know what they are complaining about. It's not awesome gear they want. It's a specific item, and with a specific roll and anoitment. Considering that drop rates for specifc gear are usually around 1%, it's no wonder they complain. But it's not the game's fault. I think it's the fact they are so obsessed with specific gear, rather than just roll with whatever awesome stuff they do get.

And I think I misunderstood how to get the guardian perks. I think as you redeem the tokens, once you've invested the required amount you can then choose the perk. The FFYL full shields and health perk cost 15 token it says. But I reckon once I've invested 15 tokens in Survival it will unlock.

Shift Code for a very special gift Merry Christmas WSW33-HSFJ9-CWRZF-6J3B3-JF6BF

Both me and my friend are extreme completionists so we do ALL of the side missions in the BL games so I guess we will be a higher level than 39 by the time we finish. I'm already half way through level 37.

Yeah, I think you'll be higher. I gained nearly four levels just doing the last two or three story missions. I'm 42 now. Part of my thinking was that doing some side missions in TVHM will net me higher level rewards, so I didn't mind putting them off until later., and anyway it gives me new stuff to do in TVHM. The Hammerlock Hunts and the Zero assassinations in particular. Zero's reward for doing them all I want at a high level.

I tried Slaughterhouse 3000 on M1 and thought I was doing great. Made it through three waves and I was like that wasn't so hard. Then I realized there were four more rounds and I died soon after. Torgue mocked me. I'll try it again with Mayhem disabled.

I started a TVHM run in the meantime. I want that FFYL perk that gives full health and shields on second wind. It's called Resilient. That sort of perk would be great for boss fights and all of the gauntlet/arena content.

PM, are there any items you're looking for but haven't found? I'm getting quite a few, and some duplicated (3 Jerichos for example) and some I will probably never use like the Rough Rider shield. If there's anything specific you want let me know and I'll see if I can find one. I've done a bit of Gigamind farming. He's so easy, and easy to get to. Each run takes but a few minutes and I got a boatload of legendaries off him yesterday. The best for my main was a Thunderball Fists pistol. It just wrecks, and was one of my favorites in BL2. I'm level 47 now and all of this stuff will be of declining utility at 50. But I wanted to see what the drop rates were like with repeated runs, even though I had claimed I do not farm. But it's so easy I'll do it again at the level cap.

A few runs dropped no legendaries, most dropped one, and a few dropped two.

I got legendary shields, class mods and a bunch of grenades and weapons off of him, all in less than an hour. I'd like to find a Cutsman SMG, as I reckon it will be perfect for my main. But yet to see one. They say the rare spawn Borman Nates has a higher drop chance for that weapon, so maybe I will pay him a visit. But I will wait until 50 for any dedicated hunt. TVHM story missions pay huge amounts of XP and it won't take too long to hit it.

Nothing in particular but just simply keeping my eye out for any orange weapons with elemental properties. I have plenty of golden keys right now but I tend to be conservative and use them sparingly.

I have three keys. I haven't spent one since level 30, but I've seen no golden key shift codes in a long time. All echo skins, weapons trinkets and that legendary assault rifle Gearbox gave a few days back.

I'm playing through TVHM, and have made it to chapter 13 I think, the Lair of the Harpy mission. I started TVHM at level 42, and will hit 50 before the end of this mission, so the XP is plentiful. I've only done two side missions. Boss drops don't seem any better in TVHM, at least with Mayhem mode switched off. But killing them is easier with a more well-developed character and better weapons. The Rampager gave me fits in normal, but this time I took him out with little trouble. Captain Traunt though has the honor of being the only one to kill me in both modes so far, but hold my beer. There are many more of the annoying annoited enemies in TVHM. The Resilient guardian perk is just as amazing as I thought it would be, and this helps to make the hardest fights easier.

What I am bummed about is I just have one more skill point to spend. Leveling up is a big part of the appeal, and with just one level to go I'll be done.

How does the game compensate for multiplayer? Does it spawn more enemies? Tougher enemies? I imagine something has to be done to counter the additional firepower from the group.

You know, that's a great question which I don't know the answer to right now! I'll have to use my Google skills.


I know there have been other games like Ghost Recon Breakpoint where the number and skill of enemies does NOT change based on number of human players but I really don't know about BL 3.

All I can dig up is some anecdotal quotes that the types of enemies change, more badasses for example (and probably annoited which I despise). Not sure what's true, but the game isn't hard to get through solo, so without some mechanic to raise the difficulty, having three or four players could make it a little too easy I reckon. Or take turns dealing with each mob while the others sit back and assess your performance

Three golden keys

5BCBB-5SRS9-RTW9C-9JCJB-XK3X9

One golden key

WJCBB-WRXS9-R35ZW-HT5TJ-9HJ59

Merry Christmas!

I burnt out a bit on Amara. Level 50, and playing TVHM on M1 was getting me plenty of legendaries, so many in fact that I've been selling most of them. Not enough bank space to keep all of it, and some of it either doesn't really fit my style/build, or I just don't care for it's abilities. That and duplicates. I've found a dozen Smart Guns by now for example. The two items I want are the Hex grenade, which is a legendary grenade that is both homing and elemental, which fits me to a T. And the Cutsman SMG. Still looking.

So I picked up my Zane run again. I had left him at level 8 when Mouthpiece killed me twice and I decided to go a different route. This time I got him first try, partly I suppose because I've got more time in the game, and I had fought him a few times successfully as Amara. He dropped a legendary longbow transfusion grenade that restores 120% shield and 60% health on damage (or maybe the other way around), which is very strong. But at just level 7 it won't be useful all that long.

Haven't really figured out which way I want to go with his build, or if I want to go with two action skills, or grenades. At the mo I'm using the drone and grenades. Don't care to use his shield ability, but maybe the clone would be fun. I'll need to experiment. I've dropped points in to all three trees so far, but I'll respec once I reach Sanctuary.

Is FL4K a fun main? I'll have to give it a go.

Digging this thread out after a year. I just bought BL 3 on Steam to give it another go with the DLC. I bought the Super Deluxe version which includes all DLC, as far as I know.

I've played through level 6 with Amara, but I do not see the fourth skill tree, or I've somehow missed it. This was added with the Designer's Cut DLC. But I don't see this new tree. Not included with my version?

Anyone playing the past couple of months since this was added that knows what is going on? Does the Season pass not include everything?

Oh FFS, they have a Season Pass 2 that includes this. Bitter taste. Not a fan. WTF. Seriously? You gotta be sh!ttin' me.

Yearly season passes are bloody annoying.

Quite right, mate. I was chuffed to play it with all the DLC and having a fourth tree was a nice thing to have. But it turned out to be a bit of a damp squib, and I was gobsmacked to find out it was not included with the season pass, well one of them. It's bollocks and I was gutted, and as far as I'm concerned, gearbox will get bugger all from me for such rubbish.

Can't blame you. You already dumped a ton of $ on the game.

Well, it's on me partly due to not knowing what was going on. I failed to do the proper amount of research, assumed too much, and was left disappointed. But I had no idea that there could be multiple season passes. My fault yeah, but screw them for having such a thing in the first place.

Even so, the game is great and I'm not missing much quite honestly. Another skill tree would freshen the game up having already played through it a few times. But in the end it's not that big of a deal. The new skill trees had been one of the reasons I decided to give it another go, but despite my protestations I'm not too bent out of shape about it, and there's quite a bit new and I have all the other DLC now too.

The main issue I have with BL 3 is that I don't really like the mains. In BL 2 I liked several of them, Zero, Axton, Gaige and Maya were all a lot of fun, and I played through with each of them, and more than once. But in BL 3 only Amara has appeal, and there are no DLC mains planned. So I'm playing her again but I wish I could mix it up, and would if the characters were different. I said before that I wish I could just import the mains from other games in to BL 3.

To each their own of course but you can always opt out of buying them. Obviously the market demand is there for additional content via season passes so the developers are filling that demand. Games like Borderlands 3 are multi-year projects that cost millions of dollars to develop so the developer needs to find ways to augment their revenue.

I don't think season passes are the issue per se, but having multiple season passes that control content is. I think that's what WT was getting at. My expectation was that buying a season pass covers all future content. But it doesn't work that way, which is on me. I did not get what I thought I was getting, and investing time in a new run only to discover it was missing left a bad taste.

But now that I've had time to stew over it, I realize it's my fault for not being informed. Gearbox didn't slip a fast one past me, I failed in my rush to play again. And thinking about it some more, this was exactly what happened in BL2 with the Krieg and Gaige DLC. It was a separate cost from the season pass and I bought it and had fun with it. Then again, new skill trees (and action skills) are not quite the same as entire new mains. But the precedent exists, and frankly I'm not hurting for money and I'm happy to support the devs who make my favorite games.

I just wish I knew about it before starting the run. In the end I don't think it matters all that much. A new tree isn't going to cause a huge shift in the experience, but when you've played a certain game a lot, anything new helps to freshen it up.

Speaking of shift..... my golden keys aren't working. Gotta figure out why.

This game is fun. The gunplay is as awesome as ever. Loot drops seem more generous, but could just be RNG.

Thanks for stating the obvious.
Buying the Ultimate/Gold/Ultra or Super Deluxe Edition use to mean you overpaid upfront for future content.
The meaning changed didn't it ?

Indeed it did. Or technically, you can now overpay for some of the future content. And can then pay again for the rest. And again, perhaps?

It's like a trend I noticed on TV commercials where the announcer says something like

And get a second Whizbang 3000, just pay a separate fee!


A separate fee? I can get another of anything if I just pay a separate fee. But somehow they try to make it sound like you're getting some sort of great deal. OK, well not exactly like that.


As far as Borderlands.... I'm liking a number of changes I've noticed since I last played a year ago. One obvious difference is drop rates. Better stuff on average for sure. And vending machines have a much better quality. A lot more Legendaries in vending machines than before.

I worked out my Shift/key issue. They were all in my email, and I could only see them in game, not from the main menu. So that's sorted. I also found I had a lot of great starter equipment there that came with the Super Deluxe edition, and by the time I found it, it was no longer useful. Derp derp.

I've noticed more missions on offer, and of course the DLC stuff. I started the Bounty of Blood DLC at level 13. Not sure if I should have waited, but whatever. I'm not all about max level gear, I don't play this game like the knob-heads who farm the same boss for 12 hours looking for a specific weapon roll. It was the same in BL2, and I liked a few of the DLC in that game a lot, especially Scarlett, Torgue and Tiny Tina. I thought all of those were great, and if you wanted to do it optimally you'd wait to do these so that the rewards were maxed. Weapons like Sandhawk and Pimpernel were amazing, and the longer you waited, the more useful they were.

So I saw this mission about a bounty and took it, then started it. So far it's great. The community bags on it a bit, and not sure why as so far I think it's great. It has a western vibe to it, with a Sam Elliot sort of narration, or like Dukes of Hazard, and it's well written. Maybe I'll like it less by the end, but so far it's cool and fun. The main issue is the more of this I do, the more overlevelled I will be for other things. Borderlands is not great for completionists the way the levelling works and how enemies and loot scale. To keep pace it's best to skip some stuff along the way, once the game has been expanded with DLC, and save it for another run or TVHM.

A quick story about how much fun I have with this game. Not sure this will translate or that I can convey how absurd and funny this was to me, but I'll try anyway. So I reach the first town in the Bounty DLC. I'm walking and talking with the sheriff, and we come across a couple of townsfolk. One is shooting an AR at the feet of another, making him dance to his tune as we've all seen before. The sheriff turns to me and asks me to do something about it. Maybe, he says, if I shoot the shooter's hat off his head he will stop tormenting this poor fella. Not what I would have thought of, but OK sheriff.

Just before leaving Sanctuary on this DLC mission I was checking vending machines and noticed Marcus' had as deal of the day, a legendary sniper rifle called the Compressing Firestorm . Always eager to try new weapons I bought it at a ridiculously low price. As red text it had "Seek Shelter Immediately". Not sure what that means, but sure sounds fun, right?

So when the sheriff suggests the hat pop, I pull out my AR, but the dude's sort of bouncing as he fires his rifle and the sight picture's not great, I might hit the guy in the head instead if he doesn't stop bouncing. So I think, maybe my sniper rifle with the high magnification will let me get a clean shot and pop that right off his noggin and give me a chance to see what this gun does. I line up the shot and pull. The Firestorm unleashed a molten jet of a round, which strikes the hat and explodes in to a nova, as fireballs streak in to the air off this dude's head and cascade around him, splashing down and creating this massive wall of flames all around him. In an instant the fire disappears and this guy struts out of it without his hat and I just lost it. I laughed so hard I was nearly in tears. It was so absurd and incongruous to the setting and scene, and a solution totally out of proportion to the task at hand. Gotta love Borderlands

Right then, where was I...

Oh yeah, overlevelling...so yep, doing that Bounty of Blood DLC took me from level 13 to 17 and I'm not quite done with it yet. But the problem is that any unfinished quests in Promethea are now way below my level, making it both too easy and the loot mostly useless aside from the cash money. And there was talk of heading to Athenas before I decided to take a detour through the new DLC. So Athenas was set to level 13 as well. So this is a bit of a balancing act, trying to get through the game and new stuff but without making parts of the game trivial and meaningless.

Maybe I started this DLC too early, I don't know. But I couldn't know that it would be enough to boost me up four levels. Maybe it makes sense to save the other DLCs for TVHM or another main. It's not much fun smoking an entire map because I'm overleveled by so much. Not the worst problem to have, but an issue nonetheless. At least the Chupacabra dropped leveled gear for me.

Speaking of gear, it's fantastic in BL3. So much cool kit, awesome secondary modes. Tons of cool guns, shields and grenades. In some ways I like BL 2 better, but as far as the gear, BL 3 wins hands down. I will now assess other facets of the two games, since you asked

Characters -- BL2. And it would be for Handsome Jack alone. One of my favorite antagonists ever. Actually, might be top. Unforgettable and I even quote him in everyday conversation, not that anyone would know it. Characters in BL 3 are not whacky enough, in comparison, and the twins... I know Jack, The twins are no Jack. Still pretty good, but after BL 2 it had a lot to live up to. For me, Borderlands 2 has become sort of it's own pop culture. Funny, irreverant, wild, whacky and over the top. Both games have Claptrap, so that's good.

Story -- BL2? I guess? I don't know, I don't play Borderlands for the narrative ya know?

Graphics -- BL 3. Same art style, but BL 3 looks a lot better. It should, given the release dates.

Mechanics -- BL 3. So many little QoL improvements, and more synergy between builds and gear. More special events and limited time content. Mechanically, BL 3 is a nice step forward. Gearbox know they have a winning formula. No need to reinvent the wheel, but they didn't stand still either.

DLC -- BL 2. This may change as I've only dabbled so far in the BL 3 DLC. But if I were a betting man (I am) I'd wager there's no way BL 3 surpasses Tiny Tina, Mr Torgue or Captain Scarlett for me. Bounty of Blood though is a fine piece of work, so we will see.

Gear -- BL 3. Borderlands after all is a looter shooter. The gear is a huge part of the appeal, and if you were to visit the official GB boards you'd think it's the ONLY thing that mattered. Thankfully I'm not insane like those folks. But yeah, the gear is the hook isn't it? If you've never played Borderlands I don't think it's possible to really know how cool it is. Very creative and off the wall. Endless combinations. Gearbox claim a billion guns, which, if you consider every minor deviation a different weapon, then yeah, I bet it does. Last night I was fighting off mobs as you always do in this game and using a Tediore pistol, that when the mag ran dry, instead of reloading, is thrown and a new one appears in your hands fully loaded. The thrown one though isn't quite done, since it grows legs, and runs around chasing the enemies, shooting the whole time. Shoot fast enough and you'll have a half dozen of these running around the area. And that's just one special ability out of many. Bah, I shouldn't even try to describe it. But if you play it, you'll see what I mean straight away. If you're one of those who say "I can only play realistic games" then steer clear. But if you aren't, there is a ton of fun to be had with the gear in Borderlands.

So what's that then? A three-all draw. Seems about right. Two great games. I've left out BL 1, and the Pre-Sequel. I played BL 1 years after BL 2 and I didn't finish it. Had fun, but it shows it's age. I wish I had played it before BL 2. The Pre-Sequel was better, and I liked the low-grav and the vehicle, but it feels inferior to 2 & 3 in many ways. A better game than BL 1 for me anyway. A better game than most of the crap out there really. But BL 2 and 3 are a cut above in the series for me and if I were recommending one to a friend, it would be one of those two for sure.

Oh wait, BL 2 takes the lead. Not a draw.

And that's because of the mains. I realize this is purely subjective, and the next guy or gal will feel a lot differently. But Borderlands 2 had much better mains for me. There were four I really liked in that game, but just one that I sort of like in BL 3. Obviously this has a huge effect on replayability. And three of those five mains are female. Not sure what games I play (ed) where I control a female. Borderlands might be it.

In BL 2 I liked

--Zero. Very cool, mysterious cat with amazing sniping and melee skills. This my ten-year old son's favorite character.

-- Gaige . The mechromancer. She had this skill tree that was all about ricochets. So you could hit anyone anywhere, whatever might be in the way. Just bounce your rounds around the corner. Lots of fun.

-- Axton. Pretty straightfoward soldier type. Great with conventional weapons and has a turret as back up.

-- Maya. A siren with the ability to phaselock enemies, lifting them off the ground and immobilizing them for a short time, and making then extremely vulnerable to follow on attacks. She feels very powerful.

In BL 3 it's only Amara that appeals to me. Another Siren, I use her phasecast action skill, though there are others, and probably better. I play her as an elementalist, all about DoTs and status effects. Her abilities allow attacks to jump from one target to the next. When high level, this means you can shoot one enemy and the six nearby all burst to flames too. Amazing against mobs and another one who feels especially powerful when high up the skill trees. Of the others, I've only played Zane, and he didn't click for me. But I should try him again with the changes that have been made. Moze the mech-gunner isn't my style and Fl4k the beastmaster might be, I like playing ranger-types in other games, and he is as close as you get to that in Borderlands. But his pet seems as much help as hindrance. Maybe I'll give him a shot at some point too. Unlike BL 2, no DLC mains are planned for BL 3.

This would have made a very good, in depth SimHQ article DBond.
Not a sim, but still a very popular game series, relevant to many here.

Thanks for the comment WT. I hope some find it interesting. It's the sort of stuff I'd like to read if I were considering the game.

I was thinking about the comment I made earlier when I said I don't play Borderlands for the narrative. And while maybe that could be considered technically true, it's also true that the writing is really good. It's not a story-driven game, but the dialog is well-written, and it's funny. BL 2 was better written I think, but BL 3 is good too. So I suppose what I'm getting at is that the game would be fun even with no story at all, but the way it is written really adds to the experience. And for veterans of the series there is a nice sense of continuity, characters appear across the titles, references made to characters and events that came before.

My character is level 23 now, and I'm still not done the Bounty of Blood DLC. I had to set it aside for a bit while I tried to catch up to my level on the main story. I started it at level 13 so that's sort of crazy to have a DLC spread so wide over the progression. I've had a great time with it, it's really well done. New characters, bosses, loot. A new vehicle, even if it's pretty much like the Stingray from TPS. A standard hovercraft really. There is a shed load of new legendaries with the DLC too, of which I have gotten several.

Speaking of legendaries.... the drop rate is much higher now than when I played last year. Boss drops don't seem much different, but world drops and vending machines have been reworked. I just want cool weapons, not specifically-rolled cool weapons like many players, and so far it's been awesome. You know that sniper rifle I talked about earlier, the Firestorm? It may have set a record for longevity for me. I got it at level 12 and was still using it ten levels later, at 22. It's that good. I cannot recall ever using any weapon in Borderlands for so long, as they so easily get surpassed. In my Epic runs last year I got a Hellshock at level 12 that I used through level 20, which seemed like a long time. But that shows how great this gun is that it could stay top choice for ten levels. But then at level 22 I fought Katagawa and he dropped another Firestorm! This one has the Sublime prefix instead of the Compressing prefix. It nearly triples the damage of the level 12 one and just wrecks. Drops like this make the game rewarding. I fought that fight well, and then to get a drop of an amazing weapon that I really like and that works well with my build is icing on the cake. Earlier in this thread I talked about how depressing the boss drops were in my normal run. And while it isn't obviously better, my luck at least has been. That Compressing Firestorm got mounted on the wall in my cabin aboard Sanctuary. Borderlands hall of fame

I'm not too thrilled with the proliferation of legendary loot in BL 3. How does the saying go? "If everyone is special then no one is special". The term "legendary" has really lost much of its meaning with BL 3. I distinctly remember going through an entire playthrough of the campaign in BL 2 and I would find maybe 2 (TWO) legendary items that were not mission rewards.

I completely understand, but cannot agree. Your point is valid, and maybe if this was a competitive shooter I'd be lockstep with you. But in single player I think it's awesome. Having so many legendaries to try, with their special effects, is fantastic to me. I love getting one I've never had, reading the red text and description, and then firing it the first time to see what it does. In this run I've gotten some that were pretty underwhelming and some that are just so freakin' cool. But for me I'd much rather have many than few.

It's made it too, that I feel no need to farm at all. I already have amazing weapons because I found them in a fridge or a vending machine. No temptation to farm because I have a uninspiring arsenal. I approve of the tweaks Gearbox made to the drops.

The dynamic most certainly changes significantly when you play BL 3 in single player mode. I only play the BL games in cooperative MP mode so hence my different perspective on the legendary loot. I've tried playing the BL games in solo mode but I get bored pretty quickly.

Still, I can't concur. Even in co-op, which I played in BL 2, but yet to in BL3, I wouldn't care about higher drop rates for legendaries. But I understand your position and it's cool. For me it's not so much the power of these weapons, but the cool and interesting special effects that has so much appeal. Finding weapons that synergize especially well with your build and do so in cool, weird and wild ways is highly appealing. I'm about level 27 now and I've already found more than I did in the entire run last year. I like it.

I finally finished the Bounty of Blood DLC. I started it on level 13, and went to 17, then I left it to complete some other stuff. I came back to it a couple times and fought the final bosses at level 24, rolling it over to level 25 when the Ruiner fell. It's a double boss fight at the end. You fight one, and when she falls, immediately fight a second, so be sure to have your ammo filled haha. Took me three tries to work out the fight.

Before I played this DLC I read about it of course on the interweb. And people are silly sods. I really liked this DLC. Not sure what these people are smoking or why their lives are so miserable lol, but I thought it was very well done, with a smooth style, fantastic narration, a few new mechanics and lots of great loot. The core Borderlands community is an odd bunch. I mean the folks who are regular posters on the Gearbox boards. Everything, and I mean everything revolves around nothing but loot. I am certain they rate DLC like this -- did I find lots of great legendary weapons? If yes = great DLC. If no = rotten DLC.How any fan of this series could play Bounty of Blood and think it's terrible is beyond me. For me it was a good experience and I'm looking forward to the other three DLCs, if Bounty of Blood was the 'worst'

Why do you think so many games now do the loot drops and microtransactions? It generates high sales of the game! All you need for evidence is Rainbow Six: Siege. Do you think this game would be nearly as popular as it currently is if it didn't have loot drops, microtransactions and special loot events? No way.

Loot drops only work if the players themselves are lured by materialistic urges. I frankly find them boring and annoying.

Which apparently applies to the great majority of gamers judging by the sales figures for games that have that feature.

There certainly appears to be a high degree of impulsivity among the gaming crowd.

Well, the game is a looter shooter. It's a core thing. I like it, the way it works in Borderlands. There is so much variety, so many wild and weird combinations, so many fun gimmicks and special abilities. For me it seems natural that gear and loot is so central and that players are motivated by it. But my comment was more along the lines that while loot should be important in Borderlands, for a certain subset of the player base -- mainly the most vocal part that posts on the official boards and does nothing but farm the hardest levels over and over -- is that it is ALL that matters. These players are like a gaming version of the people who build blazing fast PCs, then do nothing but run benchmarks on them. They will do the exact same thing for 12 hours looking for a specific annointment. And then when it doesn't drop, complain about it.

They play the game in the least fun way, in order to find specific gear that will make the game as easy as it can be. It's so odd. Why not start over as a new character? Try a different build. But no, just run slaughter shaft 1000 times straight looking for whatever trinket with a 1% drop-rate they decided is worth so much of their time. Well, let 'em at it. That's not for me. In most cases I'd say 'it doesn't affect me anyway'. But in Borderlands it just might, as these posts and players seem to have some effect on how Gearbox balance the game.

The way I play it though, I'm having a great time running through BL 3 again. With a year away, I'm seeing subtle changes, additional content and gear, trying a different build, using different weapons and kit. It's fun. The levels are flying by, at 29 now just past the half-way point (Lair of the Harpy just completed). I'm having an easier go of it, especially against bosses. The experience of having fought them before helps for sure, and maybe my build is a little better this time around. Traunt killed me once, but then he usually does, well his orbs do. Died twice fighting the Ruiner because of the environment. And Billy barely got me, but I killed him in the rematch. Other than that it's been smooth sailing. In order to not level up too fast I've been skipping quite a bit of the side content. To this point just 17 side missions completed, and yet still I'm already level 29. That's due in part to the Bounty of Blood DLC which shot me forward quite a ways. I might save the other DLCs for TVHM, but they say that the Guns, Love and Tentacles DLC is really good so I might give that a go before then. A couple of my favorite characters from the series make an appearance in this one, so looking forward to it.

legendary sounds better than common..pfff

So close! I wanted to finish my Amara NVHM run before setting off in Cyberpunk, but I didn't make it lol. But I did manage to make it as far as killing Troy. I had trouble with him the first time I played BL3, but this time I smoked him, didn't even lose my shields. So that puts me very near the end, just a couple chapters to go. The first time I played this game I finished NVHM at level 38. This time I am already level 40 and with how much remains will level up a couple more times before it's over. Of course the level cap has been increased from 50 to 65 I think, so that's fine. I've done fewer side missions, maybe a little more than 30 in this run. It was playing that single DLC, Bounty of Blood, that gave me all that extra XP. I have not played any of the other three, saving them for TVHM I guess. I also have not bought the Director's or Designer's Cut DLCs (season pass 2)

I have found a lot of legendaries in this run, but they pretty much dried up over the last ten levels or so. Three of my four weapons slots had purple in them for the Troy fight. Boss drops are no better than before. Maybe three bosses have dropped a legendary. But the rate for world drops seems to have been increased and they are far more common now in vending machines than they used to be.

I'm playing the same character, but I've done a different build. Still heavily in to the elemental tree (to the capstone), but instead of going up mystical assault like last time I went brawl. And this gives me more survivability at the cost of some firepower. The build already melts just about anything, so the additional staying power is great and I can make faster progress. I die a lot less. Very few enemies kill me, but I am good at stepping off ledges and dying in the abyss

I finished all three of the first season's pass DLC. All of them are good, or at least I liked them. Hard to order them, but I think I liked the Bounty of Blood the best. Players list each of the three as the best, so that shows they are all pretty good.

Bounty of Blood -- Played this as a level 35-ish Amara. Great guns in the loot table, a few different mechanics, borrowing from the Pre-Sequel. A similar vehicle as in TPS and those things that propel you through the air when you run over them. There's also a plant that when damaged sends out a spore that hunts enemies and charms them, so they start shooting at each other. This DLC has a western vibe, and has a narrator. I thought it was great. Well acted, with a suitable voice, funny too. I'm going to give it a go as Zane now that I finished G, L & T (see below)

Moxxi's Jackpot -- Played this as a level 45-ish Amara on Mayhem 1 and again as a level 30 Zane. I had fun with this DLC, but it's all indoors and for me had the least interesting levels of the three. But there are a lot of loaders to harken back to BL2 and of course Jack returns, in a way. Be sure to have a good corrosive weapon when starting this one. I waited to play it until I had finished the normal story mode in my Amara run, and in Lilith's chest was a Hornet. This gun just wrecked this DLC. This DLC is also great if you want to make lots of cash. I made multiple tens of millions just running through it with Amara. Of course how much you get paid is dependent on level. But there is a ton of money in this one. As a Zane main, this DLC is maybe the best, since it drops the Seein' Dead class mod. It's amazing as it has a chance to trigger kill skills whenever you damage an enemy. With this your kill skills are going non stop in combat.

Guns, Love and Tentacles -- played this as Zane. It has a Lovecraftian theme and Gaige and Deathtrap make an appearance. Some cool side missions, and really all three DLC had some great side missions. Got some very cool weapons, including an AR called Soulrender that is just sick. It's definitely worth a playthrough.

There is a ton of content in each of these DLC. I advanced at least 10 levels in all of them. Keep that in mind when deciding when to play them.

After hitting the mid-50s with Amara I decided to give Zane another go. I didn't click with him the first time, but this time I've reached level 43 and he just wrecks. All vault hunters take a while to start to shine really, once skills start getting filled in and synergies start the snowball. With Zane it seemed to take a little longer than usual, but once I hit that point, maybe around level 20, he really started to kick some ass. I'm playing him as a Clone and Drone and using a Seein' Dead. I've played some run and gun characters in the various BL titles of course. But nothing to compare with Zane. Lots of fun and a very different vibe than I usually play. Cover and crouching mean nothing with Zane

Explosive rounds

Nine months later I was kicking around what to play, and I thought about Borderlands. I always come back to Borderlands. I fired up BL3, and I guess forgot what I had been doing. Amara was up on the title screen, and I started it to find I was in Normal mode. I thought, that can't be, I'm level 57 or whatever, that HAD to have been TVHM. So I switched modes and that took me to the beginning of the game, meaning I had not been in TVHM previously. Which is fine, because it's fun to play those early bits again with serious weapons, kit and skills. Shiv and Mouthpiece didn't stand a chance, ya know? Played from the start until arriving on Promethea.

So this morning I searched out this thread, and just looking at the screenshot above, which is so impressive that I'm miffed it got no oohs and ahhs lol, but it's clear it was Zane who I was playing last. Wonder why Amara was shown when I logged in? And it's funny I had forgotten so much, so soon. And now I don't know which to play haha. I had forgotten all about the Zane run.

Borderlands is a wonderful game, one of my favorite series eva, although it's really only 2 and 3 that I like. I've played them all. I bought the original Borderlands on the coattails of BL2. I liked BL2 so much I wanted more. But while BL1 a good game I think, it didn't quite trip my trigger. Maybe it's just old. It felt sparse, and maybe people who have played it will know what I mean by that. Dropped probably 30 hours in to it before shelving it. Later I bought the Pre-Sequel, and hit maybe 50 hours, but it also lacked something hard to define, or somehow it failed to click. Some good bits to it, but it failed to rise to Borderlands 2 level for me. I even played Tales from the Borderlands, a point and click adventure type game, which, while not really my type of thing, impressed me with it's excellent writing and storytelling.

Borderlands 3 though hit the right notes. Fantastic fun. Recently I was discussing in a different thread games I've bought but either never played, or stopped after an hour or two. One of those was Doom, the one that came out in 2016. I complained that I didn't care for the pacing, in essence just too busy. Too much happening, too many enemies, all the time. There are times however when Borderlands is exactly this, a massive mad mob of malevolence and maladjustment rushing and shooting and saying endlessly funny things. I regret how many chili recipes I've caused to be lost to history on the end of my muzzle. I like chili. But it works for me in Borderlands. I love the combat. And the wild weapons, the funky grenades, firing a burst that sets four enemies alight at the same time. The satire, the characters, the jokes. The formula works for me.

BL3 isn't quite as funny to me as BL2 was. BL2 was written better I think, had better characters and mains, especially. But Borderlands 3, even if I don't like that mains as much, is just a better game for me all around. It mostly doesn't have Handsome Jack, which is sad, but otherwise I really like the direction Gearbox went with BL3, which is just really BL2 but better. It's smooth, and fun and entertaining. It scratches that itch when you just want to shoot stuff, and make it explode. And to play a game where you can leap from any height without fear of injury or death. Something so liberating about that.

Anyway just a few thoughts about Borderlands, offsetting my compulsive need to discuss whichever game I'm playing at the moment. But it is a discussion board for gaming, and I'm just providing content

Good post DBond. I keep thinking now what the future will be with the Borderlands franchise. It appears based on what I've read that BL 3 was a big commercial success so I'm assuming we will see a BL 4 sometime in the future. Considering what happened to Lilith though I'd be curious to see where the story goes from there.

You're always interested in this side of our hobby, and me too. So I looked it up. This article says the series has sold 60 million copies, and says BL3 is 1/6 of that, so 10 million. Not bad. It also says BL4 is in the works. It also says that Gearbox got snapped up. Didn't know.

https://www.tweaktown.com/news/7778...on-copies-generates-1-billion/index.html

OK about Lilith. We don't know if she's alive or dead, and I'd bet the house that BL4 will be in part centered around finding her. Maya died, but Lilith we don't know, right? She flew off in to space, but unlike Maya, we didn't actually see her die. Here's an article which agrees

https://gamerant.com/borderlands-4-borderlands-3-struggle-villain-problem-calypsos-jack/

I also agree with their main point regarding Jack vs the twins. I was initially disappointed in them as the antagonists, but that mellowed over time. Still not Jack's league, but I liked them more (as villains) after a while. I mean Handsome Jack is one of, if not the, best antagonists in gaming, at least in my view. Big shoes to fill.

After remembering the Zane run, I switched to that, and played a couple of levels. At this point, in the mid 50s, Zane is really powerful. His skills and action skills synergize so well. For example, kill skills that increase speed, and kill skills that increase damage based on how fast you're moving. This stuff stacks up fast. Having two action skills that can both deal damage and take aggro is really strong. I didn't like Zane in the early levels, but the deeper I go the more powerful he becomes. I just did the Troy battle and it was over fast. So nearly done and then I'll think about a TVHM run.

I also decided to try Fl4k, played to about level 5. Not feeling it, but then I think I had the same initial reaction to Zane. I don't care for the pet really, because it keeps fighting forward, forcing my pace, which I don't like. I like Fade Away, that's a cool skill. Maybe I'll give him some more time.

Anyone ever play Risk of Rain? That's looks like the same sort of vibe from a gameplay perspective.

Completed the normal run with Zane, but had an issue with scaling. Usually a new area scales to my level, but over the last stretch of the game this didn't happen. In the early 40s I did the Bounty of Blood DLC, coming out the other side in the low 50s. Returning to the main game I expected to be overlevelled, but only on maps I've visited before. Instead, it stayed underlevelled through to the end, so that the final levels were all stuck around 44 while I was around 54. Disappointing as it was a breeze, and the loot was useless. Not sure why it went this way, new areas usually scale to my level.

Anyway, with NVHM done and dusted I can now apply Mayhem mode, which always scales. I only play in Mayhem 1. It essentially doubles the strength of the NPCs (health, shields, damage) and kicks the challenge level up a notch. It also increases drop rate and quality I think. It's just the right amount of boost to keep things interesting, which let's face it, is needed when you are this far along in your build.

I finished the main game with Amara at 57 and Zane at 55, the DLC propelling me through the levels. Level cap is 72. Not sure whether to kick on with one of those in TVHM, or do the slaughter shaft sort of content, which isn't really my bag, but it's fun in small doses. Or start a new run/continue with Fl4k. Haven't tried Moze yet. It would be fun to play through the campaign from level 1 in co-op.

Having finished the game as both Amara and Zane I think I have to give the slight edge to Zane as my favorite. He feels more well-rounded, stronger in combat and has a more appealing personality. Snarky quips. Both are a lot of fun though.

And having just seen the ending again, I can comment further on Lilith and Borderlands 4. The very last image shown in the game is a drawing that shows Lilith, some planets and the word "Where?". As Lilith takes off to Pandora's moon, Tannis says "That could kill her". Could, not would, ya know? The Firehawk's alive I reckon.

Yeah I can buy that analysis. Concerning the ending I also wondered how much Gearbox had to pay Alicia Keys in royalties so they could use her song.

I don't know how much these things cost, but I'm sure it's pricey. I'll guess $35k. Haha, it could be triple that or half of that. No idea.Maybe it's done on a per-copy-sold basis. The music in games is never much of point of interest for me. I turn it off in most. But Borderlands hooked me from the off. My first title was BL2, and that cool opening with No Rest For the Wicked really struck a chord, pun intended. Great song and synonymous now in my mind with Borderlands.

So I kept playing Zane, starting over in TVHM set to Mayhem mode level 1. I was incorrect I think when I said this mode buffs the enemies by double. It's +200%, which is actually triple, right? If you add 200% that makes 300%, so triple. I 'discovered' that I can roll the Mayhem bonus. I didn't know this, and rolled until I got the lootsplosion one, and it's now a sea of loot! Every kill by critical grants a lootsplosion and it's great. Purples, some legendaries and gobs of cash and eridium. Probably too much really, but when you've played through the game this many times so what? Made it to level 61 as a Clone and Drone Zane. Mayhem mode brings the challenge back in to the combat, although annoiteds are maybe a bit too spongy. But otherwise it's just the kick the game needs at this stage.

Then for kicks I decided to fire up The Presequel. Hadn't touched it since January of 2020 according to Steam. I'm maining Jack, level 24. I said earlier that TPS didn't quite click for me, but I had fun this time. It's a good game, all Borderlands games are, but it's just not as good as some of the others for me. Low-grav and the oxygen gimmick give it a different vibe, and I like the Aussie accents. I think I'll keep playing and see where it leads. At least it's a Borderlands game I have not played through to the end, so it's still new in that sense. Hit level 25 just driving and floating around the map shooting stuff and blowing it up.

Games are like movies and tv shows in that the music is mostly "background" music and thus quite forgettable most of the time but once in a while you run into a true gem. For example I think the music for the Mass Effect games is outstanding and most of it I still can recall very well in my mind.

I enjoyed the Presequel quite a bit when I played it Coop but I was indeed wondering about all of the Australian accents. At some point I checked out the sub-developer of the game and found out that it was made by the Australian branch of Gearbox software so then it made sense to me.

I could probably count on one hand the number of games where I choose to leave it on. Total War is one, I love the strat-map music in those games. But all shooters it is off, Borderlands included. I'm talking background music, as some music is iconic, like that in the Fallout games. But there you're tuning in to radio stations, and can switch it on and off as needed. I like music, just not in most of my games.

Yes, 2K Australia, good on ya mate!

Actually, I don't think they are Gearbox, but that's splitting hairs.

They get some stick from the core Borderlands crowd. Some love TPS and some decidedly do not. For me it's third of the main Borderlands games, above BL1 but short of 2 and 3. But it's still a good game, these things are relative.

Who did you main in TPS Panzer? I took Jack because I like him so much in BL2, but I'm not a huge fan of his game style in TPS. I wonder if I would have liked another main better? Players seem to think that the mains are TPS' biggest strength. Don't care to start over now, so I'll ride this one as far as it takes me. If I finish TPS and want more, then I'll think about a switch.

For me Borderlands 3 has to be crowned king of the series. It does fall short in some ways, mostly around the writing. But the improvements BL3 brought just make it a better game overall. I don't find it nearly as funny as I found BL2, and there is no character in BL3 that surpasses Torgue, Tiny Tina, Handsome Jack or Claptrap (except Claptrap). And.... I found the mains far better (for me) in BL2. So you'd think that BL3 couldn't possibly be better after that.

But mechanically, BL3 is so much better. The gunplay is improved. The weapons/grenades/shields themselves expanded, more options, combinations and switchable modes. The movement through the maps is vastly improved as well, with mantling added, and no longer getting stuck on things like BL2. It's just better to play even if the experience suffers in Borderlands 2's shadow. And of course BL3 looks a lot better, but it should given the release dates.

I'm still keen on Borderlands co-op so if you ever get the itch to give it another go let me know. I have all four of the games and all of the DLC aside from whatever was in the BL3 season pass 2.

I played as Wilhelm. I actually had to look it up because I couldn't remember any of the 4 main characters for TPS. I also can't believe it was released in 2014! It just doesn't seem like it's been 7 years already. Wow.

There are six mains with the DLC, adding Jack and Aurelia. I must have gotten a GotY edition.

After my last post I might have to rethink my ranking. I said BL3 is top, but I'm not really sure. It's is a better game mechanically, but writing is something I value, and having main characters that appeal to me is paramount as well. And BL2 is top in those respects.

So yeah, I'm going to put BL2 back on top

I should revisit that game. Never did finish my Zero run....

Story-wise I have to agree with BL 2. It really had the most memorable characters and plot.

True, and no one is asking me to rank the Borderlands game, but yet I am struggling with it lol.

I'll use nostalgia as the tiebreaker, so BL2. I hope BL4 blows them both away. Well, or just not suck. The only way Gearbox can mess things up is to try and change it too much. They know where their bread is buttered and I expect a good game. These games have given me hundreds and hundreds of hours of fun and it says a lot that I come back to them so often.

I didn't realize how far along I had been, and finished it. That boss battle at the end against the Sentinel was no joke. I went in at 26 so not really underlevelled, but my gear was. Mostly level 23/24 stuff and I got my ass kicked. So I left and got some (slightly) better gear then farmed the flying dudes around the vault entrance for XP until I levelled up, then went back in a beat him. 34% of the players have finished which seem pretty good.

To get here at a relatively modest level meant I skipped many of the side quests through the game since I outlevelled them so fast. This way they'll be new if I run through again in TVHM which I expect always matches your level. Or maybe try a different main? Not sure. Might be worth another go. This return after a couple of years was fun. In some ways TPS feels like an expansion for BL2, same UI and mechanics for the most part. Overall a pretty good Borderlands game with some cool twists.

Happy Birthday DBond! I hope you have a good one.

Yeah Happy Birthday DB!!

Thank you gentlemen. Had a great day.

After finishing TPS I kicked around a few ideas for what to play next. I briefly considered picking up my Borderlands 1 run, with Mordecai, and BL2 too. Took a run around the Steam store page, and a few titles to tempt me, but I pulled no triggers. Instead I decided to reinstall Bioshock Infinite. I know right?

I bought it at release and played a few hours but then dropped it, although I don't recall why, since I liked the other Bioshock games. Anyway that's what I'm on now, we'll see how long it lasts. The cloud once again saved me and my old run, which I picked up for the first time in seven years! Like my recent New Vegas run, it's cool to just pick up where you left off after so much time has passed. This time from 2014.

I personally enjoyed Bioshock Infinite but I can clearly see why some people didn't care for it. The story is really confusing and "out there" in the weirdness category and the "sky city" setting was also a big change from the underwater setting of the previous games.

Yeah, I was completely confused, picking up after so long and not from the start. Hopefully I catch on as I move forward.

Did you play the DLC where you return to Rapture Panzer?

Yes I did and it makes the story even more confusing and enigmatic and the very ending leaves you scratching your head a lot. The gameplay was fun though.

I had a look at the DLC but didn't buy it yet. It's on sale (75% off) through Nov 22. The season pass is. I decided to wait and see how I felt after playing Infinite for a bit before picking that DLC up. The player base seems to like it a lot. And I have to admit the idea of returning to Rapture is tantalizing. It was quite remarkable at that time, which was 2007 if that can even make sense

I was thinking about it last night and wondered if Bioshock was the first game I played where your character held a weapon in one hand and magic in the other. Ever since, I've really liked this sort of concept, with the Witcher games following suit of course.

For me it was a fantasy-themed shooter called "Hexen" where could play as three different classes of character. If you played the mage you could wield an edged weapon in one hand and magic on the other. I think the game came out in 1995?

I did the same thing with Bioshock Infinite. It's definitely on my backlog list of games to get to.

This thread actually inspired me to give BL2 another shot. I picked it up a while ago and never really gave it a try. So far it's not too bad, the story and characters are interesting and unique, the voice acting is pretty good as well.
It's also outside of my normal game genre, so I may just keep at it!

That's cool JC, Which character are you playing? Do you have the DLC?

If you think that playing co-op would be fun give me a shout.

I did runs as Axton, Gaige, Maya and Zero.

Give it some time to let Handsome Jack assume center stage. But maybe you're already pretty far in.

I remember Hexen but I never played it.

I've still never really played Bioshock. I always stop and start it for some reason and I like underwater settings too. I still have it installed with a I think a few tweaks to make the mouse and physics work better but I only ever get a few minutes in and stop. I suppose I should give it a go to see what its all about. I played many hours of Infinite but left it for a few years so I'd have to start over to remember what's going on. I'm not sure I like some of the themes or messaging in these games but I enjoy the setting. I recently installed Black Mesa since its been finished but haven't started it. I look forward to playing Half-Life again only this time around with this Black Mesa remake which looks like they did a good job. PanzerMeyer I think I saw that you said you had never played the original Half-Life. It really was a great game and genre standard setter. I'd recommend you give it a try with Black Mesa for a great FPS experience.

I never played the originals but I did purchase System Shock 2 on GOG and modded it. Again I left it for a couple of years. I think I got lost and didn't know how to proceed. I love a good space, story shooter adventure game. I see that the System Shock remake is coming out and looks pretty interesting. The system requirement seem pretty lenient too. I downloaded the demo from GOG to see how it runs but haven't tried it yet.

I bought Black Mesa too, but dropped it after a couple hours. Half Life is one of the greatest games ever in my view. I bought the game to re-live it after all these years but I think I expected more of a graphics improvement. That's not the most important thing but it looked older than I expected. I'll return to it. With my recent run of older games it fits right in.

After inviting JC for some Borderlands co-op I thought I should check and make sure my characters still exist and to see which ones I've gotten to which level. Hadn't played BL2 since January 2020, but yes they're all still there. I saw I had a second Axton, who was just level 8 so I thought what the heck and fired it up and played for a couple of levels. Ran through the whole Firehawk mission and that was fun.

We really should get some Borderlands co-op going around here. Any of the games would be fine with me. It supports up to four players.

While checking out the state of my BL2 I looked over my DLC.I have nearly all of it, but I have not downloaded the HD textures pack (free). That sounds great, but I read some Steam comments and they're mixed. Anyone here using this?

As for Bioshock, the first game sort of blew me away. I recall climbing out of the water in to Rapture and feeling a sense of wonderment. it was so unique and I liked the whole vibe. Infinite is good too but I'm pretty early on I think, I just rode the lady airship or something like that, had to chase Elizabeth down after she slugged me with a wrench, if that reveals where I am. I think I may have missed some Infusions when I played years ago and that's sort of nagging at me, I feel compelled to go get those, but I don't know I can return to those early levels, and anyway I'm not sure I did miss any.

These are all great games we're talking about. Coot mentioned SS2 and that's another one, and if there's a remake coming then I'll have to give that a look. Those old Looking Glass games are dripping with nostalgia for me. System Shock and Thief were games that I really took to, exceptional design, sound, and gameplay. I can live with older graphics, but it's the other stuff I want to see updated, like controls, resolutions, inventory and those sorts of things. But new graphics would be welcome too. I hope we see more remasters of older, classic games.

I'm playing as Axton, and I'm currently at level 6. I'm working on the Best Minion Ever mission, just got killed by Flynt in my first encounter with him.
Not completely thrilled with the game save system, as I'm not interested in having to go through areas I've already cleared and clear them again to get through. Seems like a waste of time to me.
Am I doing something wrong there?

Flynt is tough. One of the hardest fights in the game, especially the first time you meet him. Your gear may suck at this stage. Did Bewm and Boom drop a legendary grenade for you?

If you die and respawn you can sometimes just shoot him from there, and not dropping in to the lower level. Don't get discouraged, that's one of the most difficult spots in the game. Once you get past him you'll reach Sanctuary and the game will open up.

The save system, yes, I get it. No nothing you're doing wrong. You have to get to one of those 'save pods' or whatever they might be called. You can always retreat to the last one to get a save too if you need to.

For me re-fighting re-spawns is actually pretty good because it's just more XP, raising my level and making everything to come that much easier. But I see where you're coming from. If you get too frustrated with Flynt I could always hop in to help you through it. My lowest level Axton is level 10. But I could always start a new character too, it only takes a couple hours to reach that level.

At level 6 you should have your turret. Are you deploying it? If you stay up top you can chuck the turret down behind him so he shoots at that while you rip him up from above, near the vending machines. Concentrate on Flynt and use his minions for Second Winds. After respawning see if you can get him to come after you and approach that little opening down to his area. He can't jump up to you. This way you can retreat out of view to recharge shields and can buy more ammo if needed.

Flynt has a *chance* to drop one of two very good pistols, as a reward for sticking it out. Of course he may not drop them too.

My biggest frustration with the save system is that I don't usually have a ton of time to sit and play the game, so I feel like I'm wasting time going through parts I've already completed. Today was a good case in point. I sat down to play and spent all my available time trying to get back to where I left off.
I never did, so now I'm back at the start of the level. Very frustrating.

If you die and respawn it should be to the latest checkpoint. If you reload it's to the beginning of the level, or at least I think this is how it works. Yeah, not much we can do about that, it is what it is. I had the same reaction as you when I started playing Borderlands, but after a while I no longer did. I got used to it, accepted it maybe? All the Borderlands games work like this, for better or for worse I suppose. I think if you push on you won't really notice it much anymore, it's only really an issue now because of how linear the opening stages are until you get to Sanctuary, after which point it's more like a hub, not rails.

Well, maybe try my tips for fighting Flynt and the offer stands to join forces. There are a few MP-related achievements I want so it would help me too.

Took care of Flynt...somehow...and I on the "Road to Sanctuary," so hopefully i'm in better shape?
Flynt dropped a pistol, but it didn't seem like it was better than what I have already, so I left it alone.

I used to think the auto-save feature was included by developers to make the game more challenging and to discourage reckless tactics but later on I found out that it's a carry-over feature from consoles. If a game is primarily designed for the console it will most likely have an auto-save system.

Flynt can drop Thunderball Fists, which is a legendary shock pistol, a really good one, and would have an orange aura on the ground. The other pistol I think is called Flynt's Tinderbox, a blue unique fire pistol. Not a big deal, it's still low level and those would be outlevelled fairly quickly anyway. That first big bullymong you fought, Knuckle Dragger, can drop a Hornet, which is a great corrosive pistol. He's worth farming for it.

Be sure to police up the area after a boss battle, as the lootsplosion can send the loot flying and land behind a crate or somewhere else out of sight. But of course all drops are subject to RNG. Boom and Bewm can drop the Bonus Package grenade which is OP at this stage.

Now that you've nearly gotten in to Sanctuary everything will open up, and you can start to get additional weapons slots, inventory space, fast travel and more.

If you want good gear you can use the golden chest there. You need to set up your SHiFT account. Check this link for the codes. Most expire. You can just copy and paste them in to get more keys. Lots of purples and some legendaries can be gotten this way. I have 81 golden keys I saw yesterday.

SHiFT Codes Borderlands 2

Scroll to the bottom for the latest. Looks like there's at least one current code for five keys. Codes can be entered directly through the SHiFT website, or through Social on the pause menu in game (load the current save first). Golden chest loot is always levelled, so open the chest just after hitting a new level so that you maximize it's useful lifespan.

I wanted to add, at Panzer, that I'm starting to come around to your way of thinking about legendaries. In Borderlands 3 legendaries drop like rain. In Borderlands 2 they don't have anywhere near the same frequency, and they do indeed feel much more special as a result. Not rocket science, this, I realize, but the novelty of so many legendaries has worn off. In BL2 a good legendary weapon is a game changer. In BL3 it just goes in with the rest of them haha.

I messed around a little more in BL2 last night, firing up my level 50 Gaige run in TVHM. What is the level cap now? 72?

I was in the Dust, crouching around near some baddies when one of those Moonshiner trucks came along, blindsiding me and impaled me on the tusks or whatever is sticking off the front. I was in FFYL, impaled, at 50 MPH, and it was just like the opening credits lol. I died. That cost a fortune!

I distinctly remember only getting like 2 or 3 legendary drops during my last BL2 playthrough. I think it's safe to say that the proliferation of legendaries in BL 3 was purely a marketing move to get players to accept the new "SHIFT" system and to use it frequently to add a "social media/gaming" dimension to BL 3.

They come at a better clip in TVHM, but still reasonable, not like rain.

I noticed when I fired up the Gaige run at level 50 that I was still packing a level 37 DPUH (Double Penetrating Unkempt Harold). Of course that's a superior weapon, and still relevant 13 levels later. In BL3 it would extremely rare to have a weapon last that long.

Unkempt Harold

Of course the name is a play on Dirty Harry. This weapon can be farmed right where JC is now, Three Horns Divide. Behind the Catch-A-Ride with vending machines not far from Sanctuary (the fast travel point), some bullymongs can be battling a NPC called Savage Lee. He drops this weapon. He can be farmed by reloading and looking at the mini-map for red enemy dots. When they are there, Savage Lee will be fighting those bullymongs. Savage Lee does not spawn every time, and of course does not drop the weapon every time he does show up. That's farming

The pistol though is fantastic, and well worth a few tries anyway. The one with the double penetrating prefix is ridiculous. Great weapon.

I picked up Tiny Tina's Wonderlands, a Borderlands-style spin-off. If you played Tiny Tina's Assault on Dragon Keep DLC for Borderlands 2 you have a rough sketch of how this game plays.

I'm a few hours in and like it, mostly. Loot feels re-balanced, especially compared to BL3 where Legendaries were too common. Grenades are gone and replaced with spells. Six of one, half dozen of the other. It works well, and the cooldowns are short.

Multiclassing is now a thing. You pick a starting class and at level 40 I think? you can add a second class on top. At level 7 I'm a long way from that. I'm playing as a Spore Master, sort of a ranger vibe with a mushroom companion that farts poison gas clouds.

Writing is good, I've laughed out loud a few times. Humor and wild gun play is what I come to Borderlands for, and so far that's what I've gotten.

The game is 20% off on the Steam summer sale. This game was another Epic exclusive, and so I waited for Steam release. Even at the discounted price it's still almost $50, and the DLC is largely panned. I'd say skip this one, at least at this price, unless, like me, you're a massive Borderlands fan. If not, wait for a deeper sale down the line.

I'll be buying Tiny Tina soon as I'm sure it will have great Coop play just like BL 3 did. Right now I'm still busy with a few games and it's taking me forever to finish Elden Ring.

I put Elden Ring on the wishlist recently and I might just have to get that one. Maybe if it goes on sale.

As for Tiny Tina's Wonderlands I'm having fun with it. Level 19 or thereabouts now. Multiclassing comes much earlier than level 40 as I had guessed earlier. I got it at level 16, and it's triggered by completing a certain main story mission so you could get it even earlier. I went Clawbringer as the second class so I have two pet companions now. You still get just a single point to spend per level so if you're going to the capstone on the primary class you won't be putting many points in the second class for a while. But you still get the second class' feats and abilities.

One thing that stands out is how the game now matches your level. In other Borderlands games when you entered a new region for the first time the game locked everything in that region to the level you were when you got there. So as you play through the missions you gain level so by the time you've about cleared it all you're over-leveled. But in TTW the mission levels keep pace and everything in on-level throughout. That works nicely and fixes one of the few complaints I had with the Borderlands formula. Like in the Bounty of Blood DLC for BL3 I started it at like level 14. By the time I was done I was over level 20. When it was over and it was time to get the awesome legendary rewards they were all level 14 and useless. In Tiny Tina this is better.

The game play is standard Borderlands stuff with a few twists. Without giving too much away the premise is you are a character piece in a game of "Bunkers and Badasses", a D&D type thing with Tiny Tina as the dungeon master. The BL2 DLC was a lot like this, but this expands on it in every way, with funny fourth wall breaks. World movement is conducted on a sort of table top set up, with bits of cheese curls, popcorn and push pins hinting at the miniatures in an adult-sized world.

Nearly level 20 now and I've yet to see a single legendary item. New items include rings and amulets to further customize your character. Spells replace grenades.

Anyway, it's fun, and just more Borderlands. Nothing here for folks who didn't like the earlier titles, but plenty here for those who did.

Elden Ring is hands down the greatest fantasy RPG I've ever played. It blows away Skyrim in my opinion.

Yep! #%&*$# good game! Get it, DBond!
I really wish they would add 32:9 ultrawide support, officially.

I will eventually. You guys, and the opinion at large, rate it highly. I don't like third person games, but make exceptions for the best ones. I think I'd like it just fine based on what I know of it. But I'll let it marinate for a while and when I get it it will be its best self

I was disappointed to see that in character creation you MUST choose pronouns in TTW. No option to ignore or to add your own. Drop/dead were to be mine I think, if editable. Not a massive deal here, but make it optional.

I mentioned the additions of amulets, rings and spells. Also new are melee weapons -- great axes, swords and the like. Borderlands is all about the gunplay for me, but the melee weapon is there to take a few whacks when the baddies are in your personal space. It's always equipped in its own slot. Most of the gun manufacturers are new, but similar in many ways to the old standards. Alt-fire modes make a return here as well.

A random screenshot. Check out the objective, you can tell Mr Torgue is involved

I'm convinced Mr. Torgue was based largely on Randy Macho Man Savage.

Yeah, good shout. What a great character.

I talk about the humor in Borderlands, and it's an acquired taste I reckon, as some folks clearly don't get on with it. And usually the funny stuff makes me smile, or a little laugh, occasionally a guffaw. But last night I was playing and two of the side quests had me rolling. Laughing out loud and tears in my eyes funny. These missions were Lyre and Brimstone and Inner Daemons. Highly recommended.

There have been a few quality of life improvements and one that stands out is the backpack is bigger. Or roomier. Upgrades are again paid with cash (there is no eridium equivalent) and I've gotten the third tier and I believe I can carry 51 items in the backpack. That's like double what it used to be in the BL2 days.

There are no TVHM type modes.

There's a Slaughter Shaft equivalent, called Chaos Chamber, but that's not what I play this game for. If you read the Gearbox boards there is a core of players who do nothing but grind this over and over. I roll my eyes haha.

The multiclassing is a great addition, I like it. At about level 24 I hit the Spore Warden capstone, and now am climbing the Clawbringer tree.This diversity in build and abilities is great and fun to play with. With those particular classes combined my class is now called Wildfire. I can choose between four class abilities, although I am mostly using the Spore Warden one called Blizzard. Purple class mods have bonuses for two classes to dovetail nicely with multiclassing.

I went with a crit and pet build. The multiclassing gives me two companions, a poison cloud spewing mushroom and a fire-breathing wyvern (who I named Mush Morton and Zippo). As always in Borderlands, the fun for me in creating a build is finding synergies between skills. Like Zane in BL3, who had a kill skill that increased movement speed. And another kill skill that increased damage based on how fast you were moving. The two complement each other and act as force multipliers. Here, one example is a skill that grants extra damage to the companions that stacks on every crit shot. My crit chance is really high through the build choices so the companions are strong as a result. Works beautifully and these pets not only kick ass but draw aggro of course, making the build more survivable.

And now that I'm climbing the second skill tree it adds abilities and bonuses quite divergent from where I was heading in the primary class. This is a great twist to the old formula and helps breathe new life in to Borderlands builds. Then again, each character has only one skill tree, not three or four like previous titles, so the multiclass is rather needed.

One thing that feels a bit off is how some of the 'dungeons' are handled. Instead of having a level to pick your way through, it is broken down in to 'encounters', which are set piece battles. Once you've killed a certain threshold of baddies, the encounter is won. Grab the loot, and enter the portal, where you're taken to the next encounter. So you're not working your way through the level, just blasting away at bad guys until the final portal takes you back to the overworld, as it is called. Not all locations are done like this, but it's used liberally. The combat's the thing right? But it feels like a shortcut, filler in a sense.

I was level 26 before I found the first legendary item. That's like nuts, man. But blues and purples are really good in Wonderlands. The drop rate for red-text blues is high. You know, like say Pimpernel or Sandhawk from Borderlands 2. Gear's only good for a couple of levels anyway.

I finished the campaign. It is fun -- more Borderlands -- and you can't go wrong there. The game looks good, plays well and is funny. There were several side quests that had me rolling, and which was the last game to do that? My character's quips were great. In one boss battle both the boss, and I, died at the same time, sending me back to the New-U station or whatever it is called. As I sprinted back to the boss arena I was thinking about whether the loot would still be there just as my character said something like "I hope nobody stole my loot' and I laughed. That's what I was thinking!

Overall it is a worthy addition to the series. The multiclassing is a neat twist, as are the new gear slots and types as well as the spells mechanic. The game's well-written, fun and free-flowing. The combat's great, although I don't care so much for the 'encounter' thing they've gone with in some spots. I'd prefer proper levels like all the titles before. There's more end-game content and I gave the Chaos Chamber a run. New currencies like souls and moon orbs are used after the campaign to extend the content, and for example you can re-roll enchantments on your gear using these.

It was probably too easy if I'm honest, I died maybe four times through the entire run (not counting fight for your life). My character felt quite powerful indeed, especially near the end when I had filled out my skills trees. Once you hit the level cap, which is 40 before any to-be-released DLC, you take up 'myth rank', which works sort of like the badass rank from earlier titles, but here you gain myth levels which grant points to be spent on incremental bonuses so the character keeps improving even beyond the level cap which is nice. I have to admit to a certain issue I have with RPG-style games, that once I hit the level cap and no longer have build choices to make or look forward to, that my interest quickly wanes. For example the first Pillars of Eternity. I hit the level cap way too early and never finished that game. Great game, gameplay and story, but I came for the leveling, I guess. But in TTWL there's still some carrot out on the end of that stick. Content like the Chaos Chamber is fun in small doses, but not something I will spend much time with I don't think. I'll probably clear up the few remaining side quests, which are great in this game, and call it a day.

I did indeed return to finish up the side quests, and I believe that is the first time I've done them all in a Borderlands title. I'd rate those on TTWL as the best in the series taken as a whole, if only because of how much I laughed

When that was done I wanted to change course and play a different game. The one I think makes most sense is Elden Ring. But at 60 GB or thereabouts I didn't want to spend time waiting for it to download haha, so I started a new run in Wonderlands as a Stabbomancer just to give a different class a go. Played through to level 7 or so but of course some of the novelty has worn off. But with a full run under the belt I can play it better, knowing what I know now.

Which leaves me looking at Elden Ring which I guess won't be going on sale any time soon. Do people play it with mouse and keyboard? Or a controller?

I play it with mouse and keyboard. Yes, I know the game is really optimized to be used with a controller but I don't like controllers and simply can't get used to them. It's not part of my DNA to use console-style controllers.


What kind of internet bandwidth do you have? Even a 60GB download shouldn't be taking hours to complete.

I don't know that answer, but Steam downloads always cap at 13 MB/ sec for me. Never higher. Can I do something about that?

It probably would have taken an hour which isn't bad, but I was in the mood for playing at the moment. Maybe tonight I'll download it.

Try changing your download server. You can find it under your profile settings in steam.

I have done, and no different. What do you get?

I don't know off hand but I'll be sure to note my download rate the next time I either get a game update or I buy a new game.

That would be fine.

Unable to find my next new game, I fired up a second run in Wonderlands. I wanted to try a different class, and bump the difficulty. As I said, the first run felt too easy. I've already died as many times in run two as all of the first one.

First run I did on Balanced difficulty. This time I chose the highest setting, Intense. Not sure exactly what changes, but it does say that the player deals 15% less damage whilst the enemies deal 15% more damage.

I chose the Stabbomancer class, looking to build a run based on speed, crits and some melee. Like Zane from BL3, the Stabbomancer has a skill to increase movement speed and another to increase damage based on how fast you are moving. It's a big shift in playstyle from the Spore Warden/Clawbringer build where I sat back more, used range and firepower while my companions fixed the aggro in place.

The damage buffs and de-buffs in Intense are noticable, but I think the extra jeopardy here is primarily because I have no pets to draw attention and deal damage. As a result the run is more challenging, combat is more drawn out and I have to use all of my tools to prevail. It's a significant step up in challenge. That is also due to the fact that early in this build I'm dropping points in to speed without the associated increase in damage skills until I level up and can spend more points in making the synergy come together.