A World War II plane crashed at Bradley International Airport in Connecticut on Wednesday morning, sending plumes of smoke into the air. The vintage Boeing B-17 crashed at the end of a runway while trying to land, according to the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA). Rescue efforts are underway, according to airport officials. "It is a civilian registered aircraft, not flown by the military," said a statement from the FAA. "Local officials will release information about the people aboard."
I stopped by on a Saturday evening in Greenville SC to see Nine O Nine about 7 years ago on my way to babysitting my grandkids, the next morning early I stopped again on my way home. Arriving early they were just setting up. With only a handful of people around I had the opportunity to climb inside the ball turret. What an experience.
A sad loss , what with 5 dead and many more Hurt.. The a/c cannot be replaced It appears ( from News feeds its Toast } I used to go by a Ford 3 motor that was mostly parked at a small local airport. On occasion , it was rumored that it flew so people could join the mile high club. It flew. The a/c caught a gust of wind on take off and turned into a junk pile , no one killed buy it was a very large pile of Metal . Tin ? After a few weeks the pile disappeared. Another sad irr- replaceable a/c lost.
This is so very sad. I haven't flown on Nine-O-Nine, but I've seen it many times. I've also gone up on their B-24 multiple times. It's very sad that people who were looking to bond with history, perhaps family history, had such a tragic experience. It will probably impact the ability for others to go up on these aircraft, and perhaps the funds that support maintaining them as living history.
Here's a photo I took of Nine-O-Nine taking off while waiting for my B-24 ride in 2008:
I’m so glad I got to tour Aluminum Overcast a few years ago. Wish we could’ve done the flight. Of course the loss of life here is the worst part, but it’s sad to see these planes diappearing too. Seeing these things from the inside is an eye opening experience, I’m still amazed at what these crews did.
From 2013 when Nine-O-Nine, WitchCraft (B24J) and a P51C whose name I can’t remember flew in to PWM for a couple days. I can’t even imagine what it sounded like when hundreds would take off using much higher octane avgas.
RIP to those who lost their lives. Also an irreplaceable piece of history lost. Someone on Reddit who claims to have inside information was claiming that the plane was fueled with the wrong fuel prior to the flight. No way to assess the veracity of what is only a rumor at this point, but that explanation would make more sense than a single engine failure downing a four engine bomber.
Some photos taken onboard during my flight in 2006:
Most commercial aircraft get retired after 25 to 30 years. Now lets throw in an extra 20 years because its more durable since is was built for military use so we're up to 50 years of lifespan (just for this discussion as there's no rule like that). However for the B-17 we have to go back to at least when the last version was built ..... 75 years ago. Should a plane built at least 75 years ago (or more) still be used to fly at all ?
Most commercial aircraft get retired after 25 to 30 years. Now lets throw in an extra 20 years because its more durable since is was built for military use so we're up to 50 years of lifespan (just for this discussion as there's no rule like that). However for the B-17 we have to go back to at least when the last version was built ..... 75 years ago. Should a plane built at least 75 years ago (or more) still be used to fly at all ?
That would depend on what maintenance / inspections are done upon it over the years. It's probably fair to say that warbirds like this that are preserved / resurrected get fairly comprehensive attention to all of the systems, and airframe. The trickiest part, I suspect, is assessing the fatigue upon load bearing parts. Non-Destructive Evaluation of metal parts can get pretty pricey, and I imagine at least some of it would involve some fairly extensive disassembly of the plane.
Machines that are well kept up with proper maintenance, inspection, replacement parts, and so on can run like new as long as it is operated within the tolerances. I am sure the engines have been rebuilt and parts replaced and structurally I am sure the plane was inspected after and before each flight. Age has nothing to do with it for machines...it's all in the maintenance and operator.
Most commercial aircraft get retired after 25 to 30 years. Now lets throw in an extra 20 years because its more durable since is was built for military use so we're up to 50 years of lifespan (just for this discussion as there's no rule like that). However for the B-17 we have to go back to at least when the last version was built ..... 75 years ago. Should a plane built at least 75 years ago (or more) still be used to fly at all ?
The "wrong fuel" thing is just hearsay at this point, but if that's true, then age of the aircraft doesn't matter one bit. I can go get in the newest Cessna out on the flight line and things are going to go terribly wrong if it's got the wrong fuel in it (and I don't catch it in pre-flight).
Most commercial aircraft get retired after 25 to 30 years. Now lets throw in an extra 20 years because its more durable since is was built for military use so we're up to 50 years of lifespan (just for this discussion as there's no rule like that). However for the B-17 we have to go back to at least when the last version was built ..... 75 years ago. Should a plane built at least 75 years ago (or more) still be used to fly at all ?
Do you realize how many “old” airplanes are still flying with safety records as good as just from the factory aircraft. Aircraft going through an Annual Inspection are required to be as airworthy as the day they left the factory. In many cases they are better now than then. That is the case with mine. My Cessna 177 is 50 years old.
I also think of aircraft like B-52s and C-130s. They're still serving strong since the late 50s I believe. I get bothered when I see Youtube comments saying a plane this old shouldn't be flying and so on and so forth. From my limited understanding that is not how it works. As other's mentioned, these warbirds have large percentages of new and rebuilt parts, new avionics and maintenance as good as any you'll find and they have to follow the same regulations and standards everyone else does I assume.
Our local, historically celebrated warbird the "Tico Bell", a C-47 that flies out of the Valiant Air Command in Titusville, FL at airshows all over the country recently has been involved with the relief efforts for Hurricane Dorian. A D-Day and Berlin Airlift veteran has taken multiple flights now back and forth to the Bahamas to provide aide materials doing what she was built to do.
I just ran across a video I forgot I had taken. This was October 28, 2018. "Nine O Nine" overflew my house while I was out in the yard and I captured a short video on my phone. Flying past my flag is particularly poignant.
Some of my family rode in that exact B-17 a couple years ago. My grandfather was a B-17 captain in WW2 so it was both an aviation and a "family" thing...
Somewhere I have video of them during that flight, trying to find it...
The B-17 that crashed was also involved in another crash in 1987 and repaired. "The aircraft suffered severe damage in August 1987: While performing at an air show in western Pennsylvania that year, Nine-O-Nine was caught by a severe crosswind after landing. "Despite the efforts of her crew, she rolled off the end of the runway, crashed through a chain link fence, sheared off a power pole and roared down a 100-foot ravine to a thundering stop," the foundation said. The bomber suffered severe damage, though no fatalities. The aircraft was repaired and featured in airshows."
The B-17 that crashed was also involved in another crash in 1987 and repaired. "The aircraft suffered severe damage in August 1987: While performing at an air show in western Pennsylvania that year, Nine-O-Nine was caught by a severe crosswind after landing. "Despite the efforts of her crew, she rolled off the end of the runway, crashed through a chain link fence, sheared off a power pole and roared down a 100-foot ravine to a thundering stop," the foundation said. The bomber suffered severe damage, though no fatalities. The aircraft was repaired and featured in airshows."
My motorcycle has 11k on the odometer, 2004 model, always garaged, EVERYTHING maintenance wise is current.
The B-17 that crashed was also involved in another crash in 1987 and repaired. "The aircraft suffered severe damage in August 1987: While performing at an air show in western Pennsylvania that year, Nine-O-Nine was caught by a severe crosswind after landing. "Despite the efforts of her crew, she rolled off the end of the runway, crashed through a chain link fence, sheared off a power pole and roared down a 100-foot ravine to a thundering stop," the foundation said. The bomber suffered severe damage, though no fatalities. The aircraft was repaired and featured in airshows."
The aircraft is disassembled as far as it can be and inspected. Structurally it has to be 100% sound, every spar, bulkhead, stringer, and longeron is inspected. Every rivet, every screw, every wire, every hose and cable, and every clamp has to be as new for it to pass its airworthiness inspection. On an aircraft like this you’re probably looking at a good 4-5000 man-hours for the repairs and inspection.
When I worked at the FBO at Portland (ME) Int’l Jetport our a/c maintenance shop did an airworthiness inspection on a Grumman Goose, which is a twin-engine amphibian of similar vintage as the B17. That thing spent months in various stages of disassembly before being put back together and going on a check flight.
"Investigators from the National Transportation Safety Board are looking into reports that the plane had engine problems before it took off."
I wouldn't read much into that. To bystanders seeing the crew working around, adjusting the engines prior to taxing out looks like "engine trouble". I've seen them do this myself several times.
I’ve heard unsubstantiated scuttlebutt that they may have been fueled with the wrong fuel.
we had that happened to one of our CL-215. Luckily we found out that it was fulled with Jet-fuel before they started the engine, but still, it was a pain to empty the tanks and clean it all
"The National Warplane Museum has had the honor of operating the 8-17 “The Movie Memphis Belle” for the family of David Tallichet and the Military Aircraft Restoration Corporation for the last four years.
In light of the increasing hourly operating and insurance costs in connection with the aircraft the Museum’s Board of Trustees has decided to cease operating the airplane effective immediately and terminate the lease of the aircraft. We have notified the Tallichet family and are working through the process of returning the aircraft."
I imagine insurance costs are going up for all the remaining flyable warbirds and that will be a large factor in the eventual ceasing of operations for most if not all, for as those offering rides to the public at least.
The Federal Aviation Administration, citing safety concerns, has revoked the Collings Foundation’s permission to carry passengers aboard its historic aircraft, one of which crashed and burned at Bradley International Airport in October, killing seven.
The World War II B-17G bomber Nine O Nine developed engine trouble shortly after takeoff from Bradley on Oct. 2 and crashed as the pilot tried to nurse the crippled aircraft back to the airport. Five passengers who paid $450 each to fly aboard the historic aircraft, the pilot and the co-pilot were killed in the resulting crash and fire.
Four passengers and the flight’s crew chief survived, although some suffered serious burns.
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An inspection of the bomber’s engines found problems significant enough to cause the FAA to question “whether the engines were inspected adequately and in accordance with the applicable maintenance requirements.”
Specifically, the inspection found that magneto and ignition failures existed in the aircraft’s No. 4 engine. Magnetos, engine-driven electrical generators that produce voltage to fire the engine’s spark plugs, were not functioning properly. An attempt to jury rig one had left it inoperative, according to the report. A second magneto on the No. 4 engine, when tested, produced a weak or no spark to four of the nine cylinders it was supposed to fire.
Inspectors also found that all spark plugs required cleaning and that all of the electrode gaps were out of tolerance. Further engine inspection “indicated signs of detonation and associated damage," the decision reads.
An inspection of the No. 3 engine showed “all spark plug electrode gaps were out of tolerance, fouled, and revealed various signs of detonation." Inspection of the engine also revealed problems with the cylinders, according to the report.
“As a result of these findings and other information, the FAA questions whether the engines were inspected adequately and in accordance with the applicable maintenance requirements,” the decision reads.
Wow, that is sad to hear. It sounds like the accident could have easily been avoided, and we would not have lost those people and a historical aircraft. I also imagine there will be a number of lawsuits, and wonder if there may even be criminal charges.
I have flown on their B-24 multiple times, so I might be fortunate that something bad didn't happen with that aircraft. Now I am hoping they can/will sell their aircraft and someone who is willing to maintain them will get them flying again.
That's sad and tragic. There is a group of WW2 airplanes that tour the country and give paid rides. I don't know if they are the same one as the B-17 that crashed. 2 years ago they came here and friend of mine was close friend with one of their pilots and founder. I could had taken a ride on a B-17 and a B-24, 30 minutes long, for free. They also had a P-51 too. But I couldn't get away from work project we had.My friend joked he will tell them to put me in the ball turret underneath it for the whole ride. Do they still have the ball turret on these tour planes or are they removed?
Aren't those sparkplugs rather hard to come by and rather expensive to boot? Not that I'm saying it's a good excuse, it's just said and I'm afraid we'll be seeing the end of those old flying warbirds all too soon.
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