Sort of a catch-all thread. I recently picked up another one of these games, and over the past few years we have seen a resurgence in the genre. Older 'classic' titles are fine to discuss too, especially as some have received remastered versions recently.
I'll start with the new one, Pathfinder:Kingmaker.
Pathfinder:Kingmaker
Have only recently started this one, and unlike most runs in this sort of game, I have re-rolled my start a number of times. Seems good from what I have seen (the prologue four times :D). I have a lot of experience in these sorts of games, but with Kingmaker I find the upgrade system dense. There is an overriding fear that early choices will lock me out of later game choices that I might want. Most RPGs have robust leveling/feats/skill systems, but Kingmaker is one that I struggle to feel I've made choices I can live with and won't regret down the line.
I haven't played far enough to have a solid opinion of it, but the early game evokes the classics like Baldur's Gate, and Planescape. We'll see how I feel after getting further along. Combat is RTwP, which is OK-ish. Some folks will like it better, but personally I like turn-based combat in these games. Thankfully there is a turn-based combat mod, which I installed after a few hours.
Good UI, voice acting, graphics. A moderate amount of non-voiced text. Very interesting multi-class character creation/levelling. A ridiculous amount of choices and customization. Reportedly the story is very good. I'll know more in time.
It's also one of, if not the, first to include a strategic side. After a bit you get your own barony which you lord over. Haven't gotten that far so don't know if it's fluff or fun.
Tyranny
Didn't click with me. Interesting premise, good reviews. I played a few hours then shelved it. Not sure why, but it didn't grab me. Maybe I'll give it another go. By most reports it's a good RPG that perhaps I didn't give a fair shake to.
Pillars of Eternity
This one I did like. It's dark and with RTwP combat. A ton of text reading to do, but very well written. Really good story, mechanics and character variety. Weapons include swords and guns as well as the requisite magic users. As mentioned I am not a big fan of RTwP combat, but the story and writing make up for it. Good game.
PoE 2 (Deadfire) has since come out to good reviews. It's been on my wishlist forever, and I struggled to decide whether to buy this one or Kingmaker. I bought Kingmaker because of the strategy game part. But I will get Deadfire before too long.
Divinity Original Sin
Two games, 1 and 2. Really liked both of these games. Not a good inventory system, which in these sorts of games is a crime. But virtually everything else shines for me. Especially the combat, which, of all the CRPGs I've played, remains my favorite. The interactivity of various spells, environments and elementals is endlessly fun to play with.
Which CPRGs do you like, which would you recommend and why?
Pillars of Eternity: Played the first, dropped it 1/3rd into until they changed some key aspects then played storymode just to get the story done. Pillars of Eternity 2: Just picked it up on sale and started it. Enjoying it - about 21 hours played so far. Divinity Original Sin: Loved the game, but some aspects (the equipment stuff) annoyed me. But the spells and characters was amazing. I liked the idea of not being led by the nose but instead having to ask around for quest stuff. Divinity Original Sin 2: Loved it as well, Tyarnny: More a simulator than a real CRPG I think - but I enjoyed it and the decisions and such you have to make.
Pathfinder - Kingmaker: Bought it in the sale but haven't fired it up yet.
ANd the great news is that the Divnity Original Sin-makers are going to make Baldur's Gate 3
I've been playing Pillars of Eternity off and on. I had some hours into it a couple of years ago but then somehow the save file system in the game got messed up.(A problem I read others had too) I've recently tried to get back into it. I want to like but I basically can't do anything of value in combat. I'm assuming the starting level with one of the first available quests to go into that cave with a bear is something that you don't necessarily have to or can do at the beginning. I can't do squat against that bear so I moved on to try and find other quests that I could complete and get some experience. I also get overwhelmed with the vast micro level of character and combat aspects and their many, many stats. Almost too much for me. I guess I'm more used to a simplified rpg system like Titan Quest. I really like PoE atmosphere and really want to get into it but I find that even after a handful of hours everything has a significant grind to it right from the beginning which is something that I find distracts me from actually understanding how to play the game.
Coot, if you want to try a different game, give Divinity Original Sin (2) a go. The combat is turn based and I think better, and certainly easier to get a handle on than RTwP which can be overwhelming. Or you end up pausing so often that it may as well have been turn based from the get go. The first DoS game is really good too.
As to the stats, that's par for the course. That stuff appeals to me, but I can see where you are coming from. For me the overwhelming part is often gear and loot. I have trouble NOT picking everything up in case it may prove useful, and combined with the often poor inventory systems can be a bit much.
I don't recall the bear cave you are speaking of. Perhaps it's just meant for a higher level? Do you have a party yet?
OK, I googled it and it's a tough fight that lots of folks had trouble with. Seems to be meant for later with a full party. Try again later with some levelled companions.
Add Torment Tides lf Numenera to the list. But really the original Planescape Torment is to me the ultimate. You can even play it on am Android tablet now
I've played way too many RPGs to list here. My favorites are classics such as Ultima 6, 7, Ultima Underworld, Eye of the Beholder 1 and 2, Dark Heart of Uuukrul, Baldurs Gate 2, etc.
There's way more I have played. However, this is about newer RPGs, or ones I have played more recently in the last several years.
Recent Likes: 1) Divine Divinity. Larian's first. I hate Diablo, but DD was a lot like Diablo mixed with Ultima 7. Great game! 2) The Legend of Grimrock 1 and 2. Perfectly capture the Eye of the Beholder/Dungeon Master feel. Awesome. 3) Might and Magic X Legacy. Also captures the Dungeon Master/Might and Magic 3/Worlds of Xeen feel. Very fun. Haven't beaten yet.
Recent Dislikes: 1) Dragon Age Origins. They stole their plot from everything. Even quests. The combat was good, but the plotting really ruined the game for me, otherwise it would have been good.
Recent Undecideds: 1) The Witcher 3. Great game, but I can't get into it. Probably because my computer is so crappy for the game (3770k @ 4.2 ghz + 670 GTX), but whatever the reason, I can't play for more than a day or two before stopping for a year. I've been playing the same save for three or four years now off and on. I had a similar problem with Witcher 2. Witcher 1 was amazing, but that too I had to start over three times before I got into it. 2) Divinity 2. Action RPG that is neat but wish could have a different combat system. Doesn't have the charm that Divine Divinity had, plus I wish the dragon flight allowed me to use spacebar and alt to vertically ascend and descend. I think that alone would help the game a bit. Still, has some interesting plot points. 3) Grim Dawn. Really fun action RPG, and allows you to use gamepad! Diablo was Gauntlet, and Gauntlet needs to be played with a controller. Really fun game but I'm undecided so far.
Honorable Mention: Morrowind Overhaul 3.0. Morrowind, with modern graphics and sound. How can you go wrong? The other TES games such as Oblivion and Skyrim are crap compared to Morrowind.
The only recent title in this broad genre which caught my interest at all has been Kingdom Come: Deliverance.
I have watched others playing some of the other mentioned titles and mostly enjoyed them, but they aren't "for" me.
I'm not much of a loot-hoor, stat-chasing numbers increasing is great sort of person. Often ends up feeling like a collection game and a spreadsheet (which can be fun in it's own right), and less of game in which I have a role which I play.
I did like the 'toned down' versions of The Witcher (FRC 1.6b) and The Witcher 2 (FCR 2) both of which reduced the slightly 'over the top' magic and magic items and number creep that were prevalent in the vanilla games. Still exaggerated compared to the source materials by quite a lot, but more tolerable for me.
I found the level scaling prevalent through Witcher 3 to be a bit offputting, even though I did enjoy it in aggregate, it was bothersome that a level 30 sword was for no reason at all 10x as strong as a perfectly fine sword I was using at level 1... plus all the skill and stat increases that magnify either of these by up to 4-5 times on top of that basic increase. This was also particularly weird in this game, as Geralt had "fully recovered" his memories, and abilities and had been actively "witchering" on the path for the past 6 months, apparently without retaining *any* of the skills and knowledge he had recovered during that recovery process, and had a limp noodle and a tissue paper armour.
I came from Runequest, rather than D&D, where a 'highly skilled' PC has a lot of skill in weapons use and defence, but still only has the same resistance to wounding and death that a beginning character has if/when he gets hit... vs the artificial increasing of damage resistance/avoidance via AC and the huge hit point/hit dice pools of higher level characters.
I am somewhat dismayed that *so* much of CRPG is D&D, and so little is the more grounded style of BRP or even of some of the more narrative or grounded modern types. Also so much falls on repetitive, grindy & 'inexpensive" low stakes combat... there are seldom long term consequences of getting into an illegal/risky/injurious fight. Frequently fights become cheesy - consuming enough healing items to stay alive while slowly reducing damage sponges (or huge numbers of mobs), maybe exiting to use more healing/recover abilities and rinse-repeat until success. None of this feels very - "role" playing, but more grinding/cheesing murder-hoboing - all fun in their own way, and definitely 'game' but it doesn't always feel like playing a role.
Even KCD does still fall foul of most of those tropes. It does *try* very hard to make a shape for the player to follow in 'the world', and it does nudge and encourage with in character prods to be a "Good and merciful Christian" and calls you out for your sins to a limited degree, but there are still design elements which deliver number creep with levelling, that present a limitless array of bandits to murder if that so suits you, and minimal consequences for transgressions the majority of the time. (Though with a few harsh outcomes leavened in - the avoidable deaths of quest companions for mis-speaking at the wrong time to the wrong person - your own execution for gross transgressions at a few discrete points, and the option to fail to even complete the tutorial).
I haven't played it much but I like Grim Dawn as well Blastman. Made by Titan Quest folks and I'm a fan of Titan Quest. I still play my original 2007 Gold edition version.
I supposed its not a cRPG really but I love Expedition: Conquistador. Its probably the first game that got me liking turned based combat. I never liked turned based or strategy much as a teen but I really enjoy it in Conquistador. I like the setting and the music is great. It really has a charm about it. I find the combat fun. Moving characters around hexes and they all have different abilities or roles. I also like the scenes where combat takes place whether its in jungle or in a ruin and I also like the animations and reactions of characters in combat. It has a tactile sound and feel.
I also have Legends of Eisenwald who I think are friends with the Expedition developers. I've only played a little of it but I'm not sure I like the combat yet. Its basically turned based like in Conquistador but your units don't actually move from what I can tell. Your guys are just lined up however you have them configured and then each takes a turn making an attack. I don't like that. I like Conquistador's style because you can actually move your guys around the hexes, trying to flee or flank enemies and even surround vulnerable enemies with multiple troops.
Neverwinter Nights 2 came out in 2006 and I think it was the first one of these sorts of games that I really liked. Until then, party RPGs weren't my thing. But this one played great (especially with the Mask of the Betrayer expansion). The banter between Khelgar and Neeshka was highly entertaining, the crafting was cool and the gameplay and story were good, even if the combat sort of sucked. IIRC, it was after that game that I tried the classics, including NWN 1, which I did not like for whatever reason. But BG2, Planescape, Icewind Dale and more followed and I found I really enjoyed this sort of game. Of course after a bit these sorts of games fell by the wayside, until the recent resurgence of the genre.
Has anyone played any of the remastered versions of these old-school classics?
I've played Pathfinder:Kingmaker up to the end of Act 1. I still can't escape the nagging sensation that I'm making regrettable leveling choices, but there is respec so it really isn't a big deal. I like the game, but it's not captivating me, yet anyway. Combat with the turn-based mod is better for me, initiative actually has value at least. But the combat isn't fun in the same way I found it was in DOS, but that's a high target and I don't expect that every game will improve on it. The 'camp' mechanic works well, the game is well written, story seems good. After finishing Act 1 I move on to the kingdom side of the game and I'm eager to see how that plays out. Comments from players are mixed.
I like the de-emphasis on gear, which is always something I struggle with in most party RPGs. So much stuff, and each character (not to mention the ones cooling their heels back at base) needs attention and different gear, with different bonuses to synergize with their builds, and it can all become a bit of chore.
Many player reviews complained about balance, but I haven't had any trouble with that. They recently made many changes in response to player feedback, so I believe a lot of the early complaints had been dealt with by the time I bought the game a few days ago. There's little groundbreaking in P:K, but it's a solid DnD 3.5 game. And hopefully the Act 2 stuff will be cool.
CRPG is isometric, or my definition of it is, at least. Think Baldur's Gate, Planescape, NWN, Fallout 1 and 2 and the like.
Back during the glory days of CRPG's I was almost entirely a flight sim, racing sim and first person shooter player so I didn't pay attention to that genre. My first RPG was Knights of the Old Republic and even though I took a look at games like Baldur's Gate and Planescape, the whole isometric set up just doesn't do it for me.
KOTOR is a classic for sure! One of the best of it's ilk I reckon. 2003-ish or thereabouts.
It's no surprise that these games aren't your thing. Well, not you specifically necessarily. It's just that as PC games bloomed through the 2000s, with better and better graphics and gameplay, that old-school isometric RPGs were left behind. These sorts of games lacked the flash that newer games were flush with. So they more or less stopped making them.
But I like good gameplay, writing and intricate systems and mechanics. And these areas are where these sorts of games tend to be strong (and part of why I am in to strategy games as well). While they lack the flash, they make up for it with substance. I tend to like any game that forces me to make considered choices and struggle with the opportunity cost of those choices.
While the gameplay in Kingmaker is solid if unspectacular, the character building is immensely intricate. One of the best multi-class character building games I've played. Maybe the best as I can't really think of another that has so much potential for character creativity and synergy of class mixing. This part of the game really shines. Too bad level cap is 20. Double that would give double the fun
I've been reading him for years. His goal is to play every single CRPG in existence, in somewhat chronological order. He also maintains spreadsheets of games he is going to play, and those he has with ratings that you can view. There are some /very/ good CRPGs I'm sure you've never heard of or played that are pre-1993, and if you can get around the graphical limitations, may find a good time to be had.
Cool thanks I'll check that out. The point you make about accepting the old-school graphics is a good one. I'm not one of those that put too much importance on that. But there is some sort of threshold, and sometimes I cannot get past it. That's why these remastered versions hold interest for me. And it's another reason why the resurgence has so much appeal for me. The same sort of old-school gameplay but with modern graphical touches and GUIs, systems and mechanics that benefit from modern standards. So in many ways it goes beyond just graphics and extends in to the other aspects of the games. One small thing about Kingmaker.... inventory is shared between party members. A small touch, but one that has far-reaching effect. In DOS 1 for example, each member had his/her own inventory. But only certain party members could either identify or use certain items. So the amount of screen-swapping and inventory juggling was high. With this simple shared inventory in Kingmaker, all of that is gone. Each member contributes their strength to what the party can carry. But no trudging through each character to work with it. A nice touch, a QOL improvement.
Another one is in many CRPGs you'll have certain party members who can perform certain tasks, let's say disarm a trap. In most games you need to select that character and give orders. In Kingmaker, just clicking the trap automaticlly selects the character in your party most suited for the task. Over-simplified? For some it will be. Others, including the not-getting-any-younger me, find these types of changes most welcome..
But this is an interesting article about the making of KOTOR. It mentions that in 2003 it was faster to give an employee a disk and fly them to Germany to do the German version than it was to try and transfer over the net. 48 hours to transfer, or 12 hours to fly. Haha, old stuff
Blastman, I checked out that site. The man is playing some really OLD-school RPGs! 1981 to 1992. Very interesting, thanks for sharing the link. But all of those games are on the other side of the threshold for me
Time really does fly by as you get older. It's still mind-boggling to me that I was playing KOTOR 16 years ago. It feels more like it was just a couple of years ago.
Time really does fly by as you get older. It's still mind-boggling to me that I was playing KOTOR 16 years ago. It feels more like it was just a couple of years ago.
I played it, but some time after it had been released, so maybe 13 years for me
But yes, time sure does fly. Been at this for nearly 30 years now, more than half my time on earth. And I still play something nearly everyday. Did so just last night matter of fact
And that was more Kingmaker. I completed Act 1, which features a set-piece battle at the end. It has the potential to be rather difficult, but there are ways to mitigate it with some attention to preparation. Upon winning that battle, I was crowned a baron and given my own fiefdom. This was the thing that interested me and caused me to buy this game instead of Deadfire.
It's still too early to form a proper opinion of this feature, but superficially it's pretty cool. Been at this a long time as I said, and the cynic in me knows that things like this often seem cool at first glance, but as the layers are pulled back you begin to realize it's all fluff with little real consequence or meaning. But for those interested in the game I'll give a brief run-down of what it's about, but it's too soon for me to know if it's actually worth your time.
With minor spoilers, the premise is you are tasked upon your arrival in the game with defeating an evil baron called the Stag Lord. He's rather powerful, and well-guarded. If you can defeat him, you gain control over the lands he had stolen for himself. You become the baron. There's a management screen where you deal with all the various issues and problems common to this sort of thing. You assign advisors, acquire new lands, build towns and cities as well as venture out on traditional RPG style quests. Various events pop up and must be dealt with. Succeed and the stats for your realm increase. Fail and they drop. These are things like Military, Loyalty, Economy, Community and more. How important these things are will become more clear over time. But at first glance it's rather nifty.
Building my newly-sited capital presents me with 9 building slots, plus one at the waterfront and one for defensive fortifications like walls. Building points are accrued over time and used to both expand your fledgling empire as well as build the infrastructure. You character alignment plays a part as well. Some buildings are only available to Lawful lords for example. My character is currently Chaotic Neutral, but now that I am of a certain stature -- I own my barony dammit -- I am trending towards more lawful actions, as I have to set a good example for the peasantry don't I?
There are a number of buildings you can choose for each of those slots. Taverns, breweries, barracks, watch towers, longhouses, shrines and the like, each imparting a certain bonus on your realm's stats. Adjacency bonuses can increase this further, so some careful planning is in order to maximize their benefits. I hope it all has real meaning, we shall see.
Conversations with the nobility during my swearing in ceremony hint toward political intrigue and war on the horizon. Looking forward to seeing how it all plays out from here. The transition from Act 1 to Act 2 is a drastic change in the game's scope. I've built my village, expanded my borders, appointed my advisors (who will probably undermine me before stabbing me in the back!)
If nothing else it's quite novel and has gotten my attention.
Partly it was due to choosing too easy of a difficulty level (normal), partly due to regretted leveling choices for my companions, and partly due to the fact that my kingdom was in trouble because I failed to act quickly enough with the problem events that crop up. Event cards pop up constantly, and one of your advisors must be assigned to it to resolve it. With all advisors already so engaged, a new problem popped up. Eight-legged beasts were roaming the countryside, terrorizing the populace. There was but one advisor suited to the job, and he was dealing with an earlier one. No worries I thought, I'll just put him on the new one when he's done in a few days.
But I had failed to notice that eradicating eight-legged interlopers takes twice as long as dealing with bandits and brigands. So by the time he was available again, there was too little time left before the event would expire to complete it. All the while, my kingdom's loyalty and community values dropped by -1 each day. Soon the people were 'worried' and once the event resolution failed due to running out of time, the spiral would accelerate. So I decided to start over with the benefit of some experience.
Honestly, this happens in virtually every RPG I play. I get a good run going, I learn the mechanics, then think of all the ways I would have done things differently, finally succumbing to the overriding, nagging desire to restart. And here too. It's better for me in the long run, even if 20 hours were gone.
But I am still having trouble with mixing my classes. Just So. Many. Choices. Lots of classes, and any character can take any amount of levels in any one, alignment restrictions aside. A neutral or evil aligned character cannot be a Paladin for example, standard stuff.
Let's say you choose the basic fighter class for a character. Straightforward, right? Not so fast there Skippy! There are four fighter subclasses, and this is true for most of them. But whatever, we'll take a level of fighter. But I want sneak attack damage. OK, a level in Rogue too then. Now I have fighter feats and rogue abilities. Wouldn't mind this character having some buff ability, so how about a level in Cleric? And I could, literally, take a single level in 20 different classes if I wanted to.
Of course you wouldn't do this, as you'll never get the best parts of any class by being level 1. But it illustrates the blank canvas that character building is in this game. The sheer scope of possibility is pretty amazing, but if you're like me, there is too much latitude really, too much of "but what if I did this...". Any path I choose leads to second-guessing, or class-envy as there are things I want that I cannot get due to the choices I made. And the nagging feeling that the two alt-class levels I took might mean that now I won't get that sweet level-20 talent that a pure-class build would have reached. Sheesh!
Who would have thought that such an intricately designed cornucopia of choice would lead to such angst!
My doctor prescribed installing a respec mod, which I have done. At least there is a way back should I fall afoul of making good choices. With this I can respec my character and all companions. Like RPG-Zanax ya know?
For my main character I started with a Ranger, which has been my go-to class since forever. Ranged attacks, cool bows, animal companions are always fun to play with. Then I restarted with a Rogue since there is a very good Ranger companion. Then I restarted with a fighter-sourceror hybrid, but felt gimped. And finally I am now running a fighter with a level of Vivisectionist. That grants sneak attacks and mutagen, both of which synergize nicely with a melee fighter. But I could have chosen a Kineticist, or Duelist, or an Arcane Trckster, or Eldritch Knight, or...., well, you get the idea.
Most RPGs allow multi-classing these days, but this game is on a different level from those I have played thus far.
I forgot to mention a modern RPG in my original post:
Vaporum. Not a party RPG, but a single player steampunk dungeon crawler. I had enough fun with the game that I beat it. If you like Grimrock/Dungeon Master/Eye of the Beholder, etc., Vaporum is a nice take on the genre that is blended with another--Steampunk, which does not see many games made after.
Have you played it Red? What are your impressions?
I looked in to it a few months ago during EA, and love the aesthetic. Seems a labor of love with some neat ideas. The thing I took away from the reader comments was that it was a bit repetitive and shallow from a gameplay standpoint. Perhaps the dev(s) expanded on it since then?
As for Kingmaker, I restarted as mentioned and have now made it back to that point, but better off since I used that experience to build a better main and companions. Plus I was a level higher when I became baron which helps, since I played the first chapter more efficiently and thoroughly.
Kingmaker is a really good RPG that has some obvious missteps or questionable design decisions, particularly in the kingdom management area. I have a long way to go still, but there are some things where I wonder what they were thinking. The devs seem to be receptive to criticism, so perhaps some more changes are on the way.
I love the character building, combat is pretty good. Quests are OK and the kingdom management is promising if flawed. Lots of content, and the game is technically sound. It's very much in the Baldur's Gate vein. As always it seems, the game is in a better place than some player reviews and comments would indicate.
Have you played it Red? What are your impressions?
I looked in to it a few months ago during EA, and love the aesthetic. Seems a labor of love with some neat ideas. The thing I took away from the reader comments was that it was a bit repetitive and shallow from a gameplay standpoint. Perhaps the dev(s) expanded on it since then?
Hey DBond, sorry for the delay. Can´t say much because I just started playing, but first impression is positive so far, basically because it´s a different approach to RPG, in the scense of aesthetics combined with minis/figurines on a boardgame tile style map wrapped up in card driven events/quest with loot and character customization.
Nothing really new as for gameplay, but to be honest, after so many years playing games, one can´t say "this is new" in the game industry. Game mechanics now days are mostly all the same but with added chrome, so new formulas are hard to come by. At least the game is attractive and is pleasent to play and look at. AI seems competent and maps are small and tight so proper tactics are needed. Seems to also have good replay value, as you build/get new figurines with new gear so replaying maps is feasible. At the sale price Iam quite happy with it, and overall enjoying the ride.
As for other RPG´s, Iam not to good at "builds", so I have the same problem most folks have with RPG´s, once you learn how the game works and your into the journey of the quest, you then realise that your build(s) are flawed and need to start over. But we have been there so we are ok with it and start all over again. That´s one of the reasons why I like "UnderRail" or Grim Dawn, as you only have one hero to build, and also because for combat it becomes a bit easier to deal with. I never finished "Icewindale" because my group was flawed somewhere or I didn´t know how to use them correctly, so yeah I tend to prefer "one-man-bands", but not all RPG´s are solo type so I have to adapt to them as long as the game is good enough for me to make the effort.
Yeesh, I have never understood the whole "start over and try again" philosophy until you get the right party mix. I've always endured with my starting party in whatever RPG I played, having carefully and thoughtfully spent some time when creating them as to what might jive. Generally, I've lived by the rule of having 50% fighting characters(Paladin/Warrior/Ranger, etc.), a rogue(or someone with the skills), and the other 40 - 50% being spellcasters, with one strong in healing, the other strong in raw magic ability. So with a 4-man party, I'll have two fighters, a mage and a cleric(as you'd find in most dungeon crawlers, or even Dark Heart of Uukrul), and with a 6-man party(this started with the original Bard's Tale), that would mean 3 fighters, a rogue, and two mages. I think in Baldur's Gate 2 I had 3 fighters and 3 mages.
There are some rare exceptions...
In Sentinel Worlds I had 4 "fighters" and a medic, as that was sci-fi, but of those fighters, 2 used melee, 2 used ranged, and the medic had ranged and heal.
In Wizardry 8, one of the greatest RPGs of all time--that I think I forgot to mention, I had a fighter, a ninja, a ranger, a engineer and two mages. The engineer was interesting. He made weapons that were similar to spells--contraptions that allowed him to do things. If y'all haven't played Wizardry 8, you should.
In the Might and Magic games, I had 3 fighters, 1 rogue, and two mages.
And in Ultima 6/7, I had ~6 - 7 "fighters" and one mage, the player character or Avatar. The Avatar was the only party member that ever could have spells in Ultima games.
The formula works. What does become challenging is when you pick the wrong kind of mage, but in AD&D(I like second edition), for example, you can generally get by without having to worry about specialists.
Then there are oddities like Fallout 1 and 2, where you have guns, and a dog. "A Boy and his Dog," anyone?
Yeesh, I have never understood the whole "start over and try again" philosophy until you get the right party mix.
OK, but we weren't talking about party composition, that's fairly simple. But about builds. Which isn't, at least with certain RPGs, and certainly with Kingmaker, which is the deepest system I've encountered. And as mentioned I had three reasons for starting over. For me it's standard stuff to restart with the benefit of experience. Otherwise, the poor choices I made will nag at me as the game progresses. And anyway, party composition is just a matter of taking a different group on the next quest. Most RPGs allow you to swap them in and out of the party. Kingmaker has 11 companions, plus the ability to hire/create mercenaries like most do these days. And while I say it's fairly simple to pick party composition, that's relative. The opportunity cost of choosing one over another is still high. For my run, I've more or less settled on one tank, one high DPS fighter, a second-liner with a reach weapon and spells, a rogue, a ranger, a cleric and a bard. But then you get in to which cleric, or which second liner will you take. Each has good points and bad. But these sorts of choices are part of what makes games like this fun.
Doh, that's 7, and party limit is 6, so even one of those has to be dropped. Decisions, decisions
One of the reasons builds are tricky is prerequisites. Unless you already know the classes inside and out, you're bound to run up against an upgrade you want but that you hadn't prepared for by choosing the right skills or feats prior. For example in Kingmaker I wanted to make the NPC companion Octavia an Arcane Trickster, which synergizes well with her rogue/wizard multiclassing. Arcane Trickster has a number of requirements, such as level 4 in Trickery, Mobility, Arcana Knowledge and can cast 2nd level arcane spells. The first two are no issue for a rogue. But if you didn't realize you needed to put points in to Arcana, you'll find the class locked until you do, which now might be another four levels. So you're picking it up at level 9 instead of of level 5.
And with how many sheer choices there are this same sort of scenario repeats itself often, and a restart allows me to roll them all again, but better. And not only better, which is good, but builds that I like, which is important to see a game through. In addition, you start to get a feel for the drops. Specializing in great axes might not pay off if the game is stingy with great axe drops while falchions or glaives are popping like pinatas.
Further, maybe you just made a choice you regret. Certain things might look appealing on paper, but in practice leave you underwhelmed, and restarting allows you to give something different a go. For me a RPG restart is as natural as rain.
As for my Kingmaker run (part two), the second go-round has my kingdom in much better shape (glad I restarted ). The people are 'Serene' instead of worried, and everything's going really well. It's a balancing act that frankly few are going to nail first time. But with the benefit of a little experience, it all starts coming together. Without a restart I think my kingdom would have imploded by now. Instead, it's thriving and the people are satisfied with the upstart baron and his methods. I'm enjoying Kingmaker and while it has flaws in my opinion, it's a really good RPG.
Yeah, I can think of a number of reasons to begin anew. Maybe you've built your main to be a carbon copy of a NPC companion that you get later, making one of them redundant.
Or you follow a skill or spell procession that leaves holes, or locks out particularly powerful ones later on. Or you choose to focus a weapon that you don't have the proficiency for (derp derp)
Or perhaps you find that your alignment locks out areas or items that you want. Lots of reasons.
All due respect to Blastman, but those games listed are rather old. Not bad, just old. The new wave of CRPGs has expanded on many of the concepts in those games. Especially in terms of classes and leveling in my view. I remember how bewildered I was playing NWN 2. At first I had no idea which feats to pick. And now having played games like PoE, D:OS and Kingmaker I realize that NWN 2 was rather simple, by comparison. Simple choices like to cleave or not to cleave are no longer quite so simple when the opportunity cost is factored in, not to mention what each choice opens up or locks down, down the line.
It would be good if someone else here started a run on Pathfinder Kingmaker because I have some ideas I want to bounce off you
And an admission.... I must admit I've considered that cRPG stood for 'classic' RPG, when it seems that most people see it as 'computer' RPG, which is a much broader thing. In which case Witcher and lots more are included. I've always used it as classic, or the sort of old school top down isometric turn based or RTwP combat RPGs, like those I listed in the OP. These are the sorts of games I intended this thread to be about, and sorry for the confusion.
Yeah, I get it. No offense taken. They might be old, but the gameplay is timeless. Also, much of the older games had better writing than the newer ones--though there are exceptions. Albion was one. Highly regarded mid-90s RPG, but the writing was like reading cardboard. To be honest I haven't played through the newer ones that I'd be interested in, such as Pillars of Eternity or Divinity Original Sin 1 and 2. I have most of them, just haven't played them yet because I need to finish the other ones that I have already started. These days an RPG might take a few years for me to beat, unless they're /really/ good like Dragon's Dogma--but that's an action RPG, not what you're seeking.
I did start up Pillars a few months ago and was immediately drawn to the world. What perplexed me was if they were using 3D backgrounds or 2D rendered ones. Not that it mattered, but I marveled at how good the game looked.
Most newer games have luxuries in them the older ones did not have, such as quest journals, dialogue logs, automap, etc. Stuff that you wouldn't find in classics like the original Ultimas, though subquests originated in those titles. To me, an RPG should have good combat, but also have a fully realized world rich in lore, characters, environment and story. And yeah, cRPG to me is Computer RPG. Us CRPG players are quite persnickety, and use the term to differentiate our games from console RPGs, often called JRPGs, for Japanese RPG. Only a rare few of those are interesting to me. I prefer more developed systems and attributes like you'd find in AD&D 2nd Edition--though oddly the Ultimas are very stat light. Their world makes up for that.
Agreed, many of the new games are the much like the old ones, but benefit from today's standards as I said earlier. Little QoL stuff that makes the experience better.
Of the three new ones you listed Blastman, I think I'd go with either PoE or DOS 1. DOS 1 has the best combat in my opinion. There was something changed for DOS 2 with regards to combat, and what it was escapes me. But they changed something, maybe the way initiative works? Action points? Whatever it was made me feel that it was a slight step back. DOS 2 is a great game and I played it through. But for me DOS 1 has the best combat system. YMMV.
It's interesting you mention Dragon's Dogma. I bought it on the strength of user reviews and played it for a half hour before shelving it. The consolitis got me. I keep meaning to revisit it as I heard it's really good, a hidden gem.
I enjoy Dragon's Dogma very much. I've got 99 hours in it and still don't feel like I'm too far into it. I started with it when it came out on Xbox 360 and then the Dark Arisen version but its so much better on PC with 60fps. It still has a low quality, bizarre night time vision impairment thing but its a great game. Definately an action RPG like Blastman said and not a PoE cRPG. Dragon's Dogma has a combat formula and difficulty that's balanced just right for me. I really, really struggle with games like Nioh and Lords of the Fallen. They are just too frenetic and difficult for me. My brain and nerves get too rattled from their insane level of fast paced, skill-based nuanced combat. I almost feel trauma coming off of them and I just can't handle it. DD though feels just right for me. I love having Pawn characters that not only help you in combat but have enough personality that they feel like they keep me company especially in the dark places of the world. Speaking of, even with 99 hours I don't feel like I'm anywhere near the end nonetheless the Dark Arisen expansion.
I also love the details within each combat style set in the game and a game pad is really a must for something like this. For example, if you play around a little bit, you'll find that most weapon classes or styles have two or three different attack types which I think is cool. Enough variety without being overly complicated by too many choices. I also feel Dragon's Dogma gets fighting large monsters right. I think its great to be able to actually grab hold of and climb up cyclops and other monsters attack. It feels Lord of the Rings like in that regard. Speaking of which, I'm ready for a serious open world, Lord of the Rings RPG. I enjoy War in the North and I think its a better LOTR game than the Shadow of Mordor games. However, I'm chomping at the bit for a Witcher/Dragon's Dogma quality LOTR game set in a huge open world.
Good post Coot, I'll have to revisit that game. It's been a couple of years now, and I can't recall precisely what didn't click with me, but I think it was just the controls. Any game that begins with "Press Any Key" typically isn't streamlined for PC. But that's a minor complaint that wouldn't take much to push through.
Last night I came home from work, walked the dog and filled his bowls, then sat down and fired up Pathfinder: Kingmaker. Checked the affairs of the Kingdom and all seemed in order. There would be five days before the next issue requiring my attention, so I gathered my party and went forth to adventure and see what we could stir up. Traveling through the lands to my east, we rolled back the fog to reveal a location called Lonely Barrow. Read the short description and entered. There, we found a sprawling underground labrynth, a tomb of sorts. It was guarded by a number of skeleton warriors, a little lower level than my party so it was little trouble dealing with them. Deeper we went, looting the various sarcophagii and reading the inscriptions and clues along the way.
Eventually we reached a room guarded by lone sentinel called the Lonely Warrior. Level 15. We were 7. But just one of him. But when the fight began he seemed to summon his army, and another 8 skeletons came from all points. I managed to kill the boss, but not before he wiped most of my party and eventually all were dead, with two skeletons still standing. I reloaded to find that I could not leave the tomb to return later. It had sealed behind me. I'm sure I could have prevailed in this fight with some preparatory buffing, but I had left my two Haste characters back at the castle. Haste would swing it. Haste cures all.
Uninspired, I reloaded a save before the tomb and headed to another nearby location. Enroute, we had one of PK's random encounters on the road. These happen a lot. Usually some low-level trash mob fight, without the mob. Two or three enemies to smite for experience and worthless loot. This time it was a single wervyn. He was easily dealt with but not before he got a single hit on my main, which did -11 points of permanent constitution damage! It can be removed by various means, none of which are quick or readily available. I didn't care to deal, enthusiasm depleted. To Steam!
Checked my wishlist and PoE Deadfire was on it. Clicked the store page and still full price. But what's this?
"Patch 5.0 - Turn-based mode and The Ultimate challenge out now!"
Turn based?? Insta-buy.
So I played PoE 2 for a few hours and loved it. I had played PoE 1 so I'm familiar with the franchise. Character creation is cool, but man do I struggle making these choices, even picking a character name. Sheesh. But I did it, and ultimately picked a wood elf Devoted Psyblade that will wield dual sabres. Using the Cipher base class, so a hybrid multiclass build, spells and blades. Always a fun setup in a RPG.
Character creation is way different from Kingmaker. You can multiclass, but it's all decided at the start. Anyway, it's odd that I could pull a u-turn so abruptly while I am enjoying a game as I was Kingmaker. But still, certain things nagged at me, something about the pacing once you have the kingdom management that I didn't like. I plan to return to it, but for now PoE 2 has it's hooks in. Turn based combat works perfectly. Spoiled for choice these days
DBond, you should play Dragon's Dogma with a 360 Controller on the PC, if you have one. The game's intuitive combat is built with a controller in mind. I know folks have played through the Dark Souls games with keyboard, and mouse, but I can't imagine the experience being good. Same goes for Dragon's Dogma.
I do have an XBox controller, bought it to use for the new exploration modules in Elite Dangerous. Good tip, I'll give that a go. But not any time soon I don't think. Got plenty of PoE 2 left
Kingmaker is a great looking game, but I was instantly struck by how much better PoE2 looks. It's beautiful. And smooth, and did I mention it has turn based combat now? Maybe there is a mod anyway, I used one for Kingmaker which made that game far better for me. But it's now officially part of PoE and it works splendidly. I expected to like PoE 2, but I liked it even more than that in the few hours I played it. Who else played it?
I'm a little deeper in to PoE 2 and liking it very much. Obsidian has a heck of a track record when it comes to RPGs as everyone knows, but surely this game is near the top of that list. They know their stuff.
It's been a couple of years since I last played Pillars the First. So my recollection may be a bit hazy. But I am struck by how many changes I've noticed. And of course some 'changes' may just be me mis-remembering.
Stamina is removed. Or somehow in there but melded in to health pool. I think it's just gone. Not a bad thing really.
Can multi-class now (with various subclasses as well). Of course this has all the attendant advantages and disadvantages. More versatile but less powerful in the end.
Many abilities and spells have been changed from once-per-rest to once-per-battle. That's a huge change.
Level cap bumped to 20. Wasn't the original release of PoE capped at 12? It was really low, in the event I'm wrong.
The whole ship thing. I'm at the point where I just repaired it and gone to sea, so too little time with it yet. But so many RPGs are going a similar route, even if the embodiment varies.
Permadeath for companions. Maybe this was in the first game? But if a companion 'dies' 4 times without rest they are gone forever. Kingmaker has the same sort of thing, but with less cushion before the perma part.
Party size reduced from six to five. A significant change, but one I like.
And those are just the things that have become apparent to me in the short time I've played. So it's much like PoE, but different too, and I'd rate most, if not all, of the changes as improvements. It plays well. Looks great.
Writing is a subjective thing. But for any true fan of these games it's often one of the most important parts. I know some skip over that stuff, but their loss. The writing here is excellent, as you'd expect. Story is taking shape but too early for me to form a true opinion. I expect to like it in the end. We shall see. Fully voiced too, which the first game was not (nor Kingmaker for that matter)
Combat is good. I don't like it as much as Original Sin combat, at least not yet. I opted for turn based as I said. It's the best for me. It takes a bit of adjusting, especially when casting spells, as they don't hit right away (during that turn), but a bit later and it takes some getting used to the delay. In a sense I find it too easy, mainly due to the self-healing that characters get. And as soon as combat is over all party members restore full health, spells and abilities. So all you need to do is survive this battle, and don't have to be concerned with what is around the next corner, as you'll be back to full strength. Resting is needed in some cases, but in general you'll be back to your best as soon as there are no enemies in range.
Leveling is improved over the original. It's the same in some respects, particularly the stingy skill points. Feats are varied and plentiful, but precious and there is a high opportunity cost here as you are forced to NOT pick most of them. So what you DO pick is important. I think it's another change, and again I may not recall correctly, but in PoE 2 all the skill points of the party contribute to the skill check for the main. It's not one to one. Let me 'splain.....
Say your main has a Diplomacy check and has 4 points in Diplomacy skill. In just about every RPG those 4 points are all you have to work with. But in PoE 2 all party members contribute their skill points to the roll. It's not one to one, so if the other four members have a total of say 15 points, a +5 is added to the skill check, in essence giving the main a Diplomacy rank of 9. Haven't quite worked out the ratio, but that's gotta be pretty close (about 3 to 1)
That's enough jabberin' for now, but I am impressed with PoE 2 (I knew I would be). Wasn't sure I'd care for the ship mechanics, and still am not. But the rest of what I've seen is well done.
You know how I said that restarts were natural as rain? Yep, once more.
I played PoE 2 until I reached about level 6 or 7. There was a quest at an island which was a redoubt of sorts for pirates. Had some business there. Snuck in and it all went to hell, fireballs and blood everywhere, killed everyone in the place, though I didn't mean to Well, turns out that at least one of the charred bodies was a potential party member, and it seems that perhaps it could have all been done more peacefully.
But they started it. Anyway, this would not do. I could have just reloaded a save before entering the pirate fort. But I had chosen Classic (normal) difficulty and it's just too easy, the combat anyway. For example one of the early story quests is to visit a digsite. When I went there in Classic I went through with just three party members, with no trouble. When I did it again in Veteran I had a hell of time. Doing it with three party members got the party wiped with quickness. So I reloaded and headed back to town where I recruited a Druid mercenary and returned to the digsite. Party wiped again.
Back to town and hired another merc, this one a barbarian. With a party of five I made it, but only just. So just that one difficulty level made a huge difference in the challenge of the combat -- breeze through with three vs barely survive with five. Enemy numbers are increased, and it seems they use different tactics and use more of their spells/abilities. In PoE 2 the early bits are the most difficult, especially I think that digsite. So Veteran should prove the sweetspot, challenging but not too hard. RPGs like this are best balanced at a point where you need to use all of your tricks, all of the tools at you disposal to prevail. Witcher 3 was like that, D:OS 1 and 2 were like that. These games shine brighter at the higher difficulty settings for me.
Along the same lines, PoE 2 has an interesting feature, and I can't recall seeing it before, though maybe some games have it. You have the option to set level scaling. You can choose to have no scaling at all, all encounters scaled, or critical path only (main quests). There is also an option to only scale up. Good stuff that allows for better customization, allowing the player to tune the challenge. I've gone with no scaling, meaning I'll be overleveled for some fights and forced to return later for others. Wasn't sure which option would be best, but after this run I will know.
One last reason I chose to begin anew was that I had chosen a character build that wasn't clicking for me. I made a Cipher, muticlassed with Soulblade with fighter and Ascendant subclasses. Ciphers use a currency called focus to spend on their abilities. When focus reaches maximum level, an Ascended Cipher gets powerful bonuses. In practice though I found it difficult to actually reach max focus. So I re-rolled and eliminated some of the subclassing, and now the focus is used for powerful strikes, which are easily reached and useful several times in each battle.
Switching gears for a moment, earlier I had talked about D:OS 2 and how I didn't like some of the changes to combat from the first game. The thing I mentioned was a change to how action points or initiative worked. And I remember now a second change that I didn't like, and that was how they split armor in to magical and physical armor. I didn't like how it played out in battle. The second game was better in just about every respect, but those changes I didn't like.
Man, it's tough getting a discussion going. I think I just choose to talk about games that no one plays Have a look at my Warhammer 2 thread for a really sad case of unrequited commentary.
But I've not let that stop me in the past.
After the restart described above, I've restarted no more. And a few more comments about my thoughts and experiences with PoE 2. One thing I think that Pillars gets right is flanking and positioning. It stands out a bit more in turn based I think. In Kingmaker it's too simple. A character is considered flanked in that game as long as it is engaged in melee with more than one enemy, regardless of actual positioning. It's countered somewhat by Attacks of Opportunity, making battlefield movement dangerous,
In PoE 2 a character is only flanked when the two engaged enemies are on opposite sides, as seems proper to me. Movement through the battlefield is more free, suffering only from Disengagement Attacks. The end result is that it feels more tactical, and the squishy backline characters are in more peril. Both you and the opponent are more free to reposition during the battle.
I really enjoy the firearms (pistols, arquebus, blunderbuss), which in practical terms aren't much different than a bow, but the crack of the report is much more satisfying
The combat is really good. I wonder what I would be saying if limited to RTwP? It isn't as interactive let's say as DOS, the environmental and elemental stuff isn't there really. but it's good.
The ship stuff is fine I suppose. The world map is mostly sea, interspersed with islands, an archipelago. Essentially you travel around the world map in your ship, the Defiant. It can be upgraded with heavier cannon, faster or more durable sails, stronger hulls and the like. Or if you've the coin, can be replaced with other ship types. You can also hire deckhands, navigators, cooks, canoneers and doctors. You can choose to attack merchants, or ships might chase you down and attack you. You can engage in ship combat of sorts (played out in text) making choices like....
Turn to Port Hold Position Fire the Forward Cannons Half Sail Brace for Impact
and so on, it's turn and text based. Works fine I suppose, but I would have liked a 3D version with cannons barking, masts folding, sails holed and smoke everywhere.
Or you can choose to board and play it out like normal combat. This is what I usually do, as I like the combat. It's a big fight, with 10 or so a side. Winning nets you booty and plunder, things like money and provisions and experience for the crew. You have to keep your crew fed and well cared-for, less they mutiny. So it works well enough, but honestly I'd be happy with a huge world map to walk across. It's novel anyway.
The story is taking on an epic quality worthy of such a game. Playing the gods against one another, deciding the fates of many. Various factions, and accompanying politics, abound. I've barely begun (several times hehe) and it's getting it's hooks in. I've just reached level 6 and no intentions to restart again. So let's see where the game takes me
Still playing Pillars 2. This is a fantastic RPG, certainly one of the best I've played. Top five for sure. It's difficult for me to separate the good ones, how to objectively place one great game above another. Having sunk nearly 100 hours in to it though I've seen enough to know PoE 2 is among the best of the bunch.
It ticks all of the boxes -- writing, story, lore, mechanics, voice acting, graphics, soundtrack, combat. I can't really see what weaknesses it has (aside from loading screens/times perhaps). Some folks say the ship related stuff is weak, and I'd agree that the ship-to-ship combat isn't a strength. But I can just avoid that and directly board the enemy ship, so mechanically it's not much of an issue, since you're never forced to fight ship to ship (which is turn-based text).
For me the introduction of turn-based combat is key. It takes way longer, but is much better
And it is HUGE. So much content. In all that time I'm just level 11 and have maybe seen half of the game. Combat has really started to shine as my party acquires new spells, gear and abilities, and of course the enemies you encounter do too. It's challenging, tactical and fun. Since starting over at Veteran difficulty, the easy encounters are fewer and farther between, but as I opted for no level-scaling some do still occur, as I visit areas intended for earlier in the game. The open-world aspect means the player is free to proceed as he sees fit, and while I maybe miss a bit more structure, open world RPGs have their own charms.
Character building is good, though not nearly so complex as Kingmaker. Companions and their quests are well done, and there's every chance one could leave if you choose the wrong path. There's a lot of moral ambiguity, a lot of grey in PoE 2. Many RPGs have a distinct good vs evil vibe, but PoE 2 is far more shaded. Rarely is there an obvious choice. Lends it self to true roleplaying, not just choosing the "right" or obvious course. The whole faction aspect is this way. None of them are good guys really, so you need to align with whichever one suits your character or needs best.
My main is a Psyblade, which is a multiclass Cipher. He is multied with fighter, dual wields Sabres, wears light armor. Deals massive damage through his Soul Annihilation ability, and has a number of CC spells/abilities. It's a great class, especially in long battles, as the Cipher can continue to generate focus for his abilities long after the dedicated spellcasters have run dry. Typically I run the main, a pure fighter, a pure ranger, a priestess (like a cleric), and a wizard in the party. But I mix it up for certain quests.
Just a few thoughts I had about the game, and I'll post again later as I get deeper in to it. If you're wondering which RPG to try next you can't go wrong with PoE 2 if this sort of game suits you.
I am approaching the end of PoE 2 and last night I was browsing RPGs and Arcanum was one. This is the 2001-era title? It's a good game, but not sure I can go back so far. I also looked at BG2, Planescape, the new Torment Tides of Numenera. I've been enjoying my RPG kick lately, and looking for the next one.
I might give Tyranny another chance. Folks praise it, so maybe I should revisit it to see what I'm missing. I looked for NWN 2 with Mask of the Betrayer. I thought it might be fun to play that again after so much time, as it was one of my favorites. But it's not on Steam anyway. I probably still have the disks somewhere. But that too may be too far gone.
Also considering Wasteland 2. Another game that gets high praise is the Shadowrun series. I have Shadowrun: Dragonfall, which I played for a few hours before shelving it. Maybe that's another one worth a revisit? Also Shadow Tactics : Blades of the Shogun. Highly rated, but I didn't give it enough time. I should try it again.
I also, for the first time ever really, have a backlog of games I bought on sale but haven't gotten around to.
-- Dark Souls 3. Still have never played a Dark Souls game. I bet I would love it, but I fear I would hate it, and so I've done nothing
-- Darkwood . A top-down horror game that I played for a few hours. Seemed pretty good but I didn't really know what to do.
-- This War of Mine. I bet i would like this one too, but am in no mood to invite depression upon myself.
-- Frost Punk. Gets good reviews, I'll get around to it eventually I think. Not in the mood to have crisis upon crisis heaped upon me.
-- Outlast. Not in the mood to scare the sh!t out of me.
Yes, it´s the 2001 title. At that price I just bought it, havent downloaded yet though. Want to keep my PC a bit healthy, in the sense that I don´t want to install a bunch of games that I wont be playing shortly. Last PC format I did I could barely see my desktop LOL!
But back to the topic, Arcanum is from the folks that did Fallout 1-2 which is basically Wastland. I was about to buy Wasteland 2 not to long ago on sale, but not everybody seems to be happy with it, some bugs never got fixed and I hate to be playing a game for hours just to find out Iam stuck or bugged.
Planetscape Torment is the only "Enhanced" edition that they got right, all others seem to have issues/or boken, so I would go with that one if I had to choose. I also have Shadowrun Dragonfall Directors Cut, and so far I have had to redo some missions because my tactics havent been good enough, so yeah it´s challanging or I just suck at it!
Not to much of a fan of Dark Souls 3, tried it but I just don´t like to be hammering a boss over and over again in order to get to the next screen. BUT I did love "The Surge", basically because I found the hammering more satisfying, It really gave me the sense of swing and impact on fights, liked the theme better too.
This War of Mine I started to play last week and so far I like it, can´t say I will get into a depression mode later on in the game, but for the sale price I got it, if so I´ll just dump it if it gets on me.
In a similar mood, I don´t want a game to scare that crap out of me at present, played "Observer" cuz I like the theme, but soon stopped LOL! Reason why I don´t play Alien, but someday I need to play that for sure!
Don't start with Dark Souls 3, start with the first one, and play them in order. Of the three, I've played through the second one the most, which is odd, because most consider the second as the weakest but I disagree. The first, though, is quite a bit easier than the second and third--if that's saying much, but gives you a chance to get used to the play style. They're RPGs, but they're also metroid and zelda but do metroid and zelda better than metroid and zelda do, if that makes sense--namely the first one. The second one has far less an interconnected world, though the third tries to strike a balance between the two. The third is brutal. Definitely don't play the third one first.
BTW Don't worry, they're not as hard as some may complain they are. Hard is Sekiro. No. Sekiro is pure masochism with a bed of nails strapped to your back, being squeezed into you by a vice. Even I gave up on Sekiro... at the first major boss. The Dark Souls games are quite relaxing and pleasant experiences that reward you as you go further in. Sekiro doesn't. It simply punishes you harder and harder. That and Sekiro isn't an RPG anymore.
But use a 360 controller when you do play them.
Over the weekend I started Kingdom Come: Deliverance. My computer is way too old to play, but I'm having fun. What a wonderful game so far. Reminds me of Sierra's classic "Quest for Glory" games, with the degree of worldbuilding and character development I've seen.
Thanks Red, good post. Please let me know your thoughts after more of This War of Mine.
Your thoughts on DS3 mirror mine, that's exactly what keeps me from playing it. And the fact that I think other players can show up? Or is that opt-in only? When I played the Division 2 I was taken by surprise when I saw other players in the game. I thought it was SP only, although it seems they are only encountered at the base hubs.
You mention Alien and that's been on my wishlist forever, it gets high marks from players, and there was a thread here about it and the members liked it.
I know what you are saying about Wasteland 2. Some love it, some are highly critical.
Thanks Blastman. I bought DS3 because everyone said it was the most 'accessible' DS game. I tend to like hard games, but I don't tend to like doing the same thing over and over. The Kayran in Witcher 2 is a good illustration of game design that irks me. I picture Dark Souls as entire games of Kayran battles.
KCD is one of my favorite RPGs ever. We had a long thread about it recently. Great game. Have fun.
Dark Souls 1 has only one or two "Kayran" battles, and I totally get what you're saying. The Kayran was annoying as hell. The difference with Dark Souls, though, is the game is fair--save for one very specific spot which doesn't last long. Once you understand the Dark Souls combat systems, you can fluidly tango with most any enemy and boss--some bosses I beat on the second or third try, and a couple on the first. There are a handful that are quite challenging, but Dark Souls 1 paces them far enough apart you can spend hours exploring the elaborate world without facing any. If you like exploring, Dark Souls 1 does that best.
They're all great games, though. In the second it helps tremendously if other humans are online so you can farm humanity from helping them kill bosses to get your health max restored. You don't have that issue in the first. I've spent a lot of hours in these games.
Thanks Blastman. I'll get around to trying it sooner or later. I'm certainly interested, but something else always seems to get played instead.
And about KCD.... I completely agree. I love the game world, and especially how they did the countryside, and how the towns and villages are all so faithful to city planning (or lack thereof) of the time. Few games I've enjoyed as much just traveling around.
I love the Witcher games including Assassin's of Kings.(Recently finished a third playthrough) I agree though. The Kayran fight is terrible lol. Its a great idea but it very much is a hellacious QTE level moment that's not done very well and not explained well at all to the player. There is no fight like it before or after in the game. I had to watch a youtube walk through the first time. I also play the game on a higher difficulty level but always turn the QTE option to easy.
I have This War of Mine too but I only dabbled with it. I know its popular I just don't know how much time you have to put in before things start getting interesting.
You all are mentioning Alien. What game are you talking about? Is there an Alien RPG? If you're talking about Alien Isolation I LOVE that game. That being said it took a long time for me to not be to be too scared while playing. I had a hard time at first with the game because of how creepy and intense it was. I eventually came up with a solution that helped me quell my fear level and it really helped and it consisted of two things. If anyone is interested let me know. AI is outstanding. I'm wanting to play it again soon as its been a couple of years since I first beat it. A game I enjoy but to this day still gives me trouble even more so than Alien Isolation now is SOMA. That game doesn't even have fighting like AI does and even though I'm almost done with the game, it still scares the dickens out of me. I'm actually having a hard time finishing it because the last "entity" I find difficult to avoid and the environment in the last level is close to pitch black.
Yeah Coot, talking about Isolation, which isn't a RPG, but a good game it seems. I rather took us off on a tangent there.
I've played a number of scary games over the years, but I'm not really a horror fan, never played Resident Evil, but did play one of the Silent Hill games years ago. I 'd say that Thief The Dark Project was the game that raised the most hackles for me. And also Shalebridge Cradle in Thief Dark Shadows and the little girl in F.E.A.R games too.
In PoE 2 I'm level 15 now, still a ways to go. I suspect I might hit the level cap of 20 some time before the end at the current pace, so I plan to ignore some of the remaining side content, which will also reserve some stuff should I play it a second time. And I might just do. For me it's a great RPG, I'm digging it. The main disappointment for me is the Ranger class. It's just not very interesting. Most of the special bow and ranged type abilities that many RPGs have, like ricochet, barrage, reactive shot, pin down (all D:OS stuff) and so on are absent. It's pretty meh. I didn't play a ranger because of this, and the cipher is a lot of fun and quite powerful, but I still have a ranger in the party. It's the least interesting ranger I can remember. Most of the other classes are much better, and lots of options too with mutli-classing now a thing. There's an acceleration of power in a well planned party as you level up, as the synergy of the myriad of buffs, de-buffs, gear and combat skills that you gain seem to propel you past the enemy's capabilities in the later stages of the game.
I think this is partly due to the fact that in an open world RPG like this, the devs must account for main story followers and completionists alike. How can you scale the game for each type of player? Perhaps that's why this game has configurable level scaling. I opted for no scaling, but even if I level scaled the enemy would be same-level and that's manageable at higher levels with all the capabilities you now have. I could play at the highest difficulty, but then I would hate the early game I think. No fun dying anyway, but the outcome of late-game combat is hanging less in the balance than it did early on (on Vet difficulty). Not uncommon in RPGs, or any game really. But the open world aspect makes it stand out in PoE 2.
Still playing Deadfire. Level 17 and very near the end, but I've burned out a bit on it. Been at it for nearly a month
I could embark on the final quest (or keep doing plenty of side quests) but finding motivation hard to come by. It's a great game but after so many hours I'm needing to switch it up. I do this all the time and then fail to return to actually complete the game. I do want to see how it ends though. My motivation is usually tethered to challenge level and as the levels have ticked by the challenge has waned.
So, needing something different, I re-installed several of the games I mentioned earlier. Tyranny, Shadow Tactics:Blades of the Shogun and Dragon's Dogma:Dark Arisen. I started a run in Dragon's Dogma and played for a bit. This game is starting to show it's age a little (2013), but that means it is super smooth. Player comments are rather glowing, praising combat and character building. I guess it will take some time to see for myself, but combat in the earliest stages isn't inspired, just hack and slash (or I'm doing it wrong), It's cool to battle the monsters by climbing on them and attacking vulnerable points, but so far I've seen no real tactical side to it. Maybe it's me. Games like this often take time to come together, to shine.
The consolitis is offputting, but that's subjective. For example when you start the game you have to hit 'any key'. OK. Then you have to click on a choice to go to main menu. Why am I not already on the main menu? Clicking main menu highlights main menu, and then you click on main menu again to go to the main menu. Sheesh
I've played Planescape, many moons ago. I've been kicking around revisiting some of these 20 year old classics. And honestly, I don't hold Planescape in quite the same hallowed light as others do. It was a really good RPG, a classic. The writing was phenomenal, the story was great I thought. But character building and combat were not so great, or that's how I remember it. A RPG with little latitude for roleplaying. Maybe worth another go? I have been checking out Tides of Numenera. Have not pulled the trigger because frankly I'm not sold on it, and partly for the same reasons as the original Planescape, even if Tides is more of a 'spiritual successor' than a sequel..
For better or worse I now compare everything to the Divinity Original Sin games, as for me it's the best total package in the genre. I am not saying Planescape is a poor game, but for me not the best either. Like BG2 I've long thought it was a little overrated, but there's no accounting for taste. I didn't think it was when it was new, but over time. I didn't dislike D&D 2.5 back then, but now I don't care for that ruleset. It likely wouldn't bother me to play it now, but I'd still be aware of it's peculiarities. There's no perfect game.
I realize opinions are shaped by the paradigm of the time. Everything is sort of frozen at the moment of the experience, and often we, or just I, judge it based on the expectations of it's era. Like if I say Half Life was the best game ever, I am right. But now?
Divinity Original Sin for me moved the goalposts. No question it's my favorite turn based combat. And that combines with good quests, great graphics, interesting companions and robust character building. No game will appeal to everyone, but the D:OS games would get my vote as best isometric RPG today. Others think they suck
Divinity Original Sin. Talking about it so much I decided to consider another go at it. I finished D:OS 1 twice, once on Classic and again on Tactician after Larian graciously gave us the Enhanced Edition for free. But D:OS 2 I never actually completed. I made it to the last town, and did most of what was there before taking a break from which I never returned. So that's been nagging at me.
I reinstalled the game and wanted to see if I had had the foresight (or laziness) to keep cloud saves on, and if so I'd have the option to simply continue from the last save. And lo and behold, there they were, all my saves from two years ago. But all were marked as incompatible. Hmm. There's only one reason for this right? A new version of the game.
And sure enough, it's now the Definitive Edition. Larian's awesome. How did I not know of this? No matter, a new version sounds just perfect, so I started a new run on Tactician. Made it off the boat and did some stuff in the first town, but quickly was faced with what I didn't like from D:OS 2 -- the armor system. It can be argued eternally whether it's a better system than the first game. I'm uninterested in that, but it's clear I don't care for it.
Here's how it works.... Each enemy can have two armor types, physical and magical. Some have one or the other, some enemies have both. In combat, attacks deal one or the other type of damage, and hits will deplete the armor pool for one type or the other. Spells like CC cannot be applied until the armor is defeated. So to do something as simple as Charm, you need to remove their armor first.
This is a problem for a mixed party as far as I am concerned. In one battle, two characters attacked an enemy and removed it's magic armor, and began to reduced the target's health. Then it was the ranger's turn (my main). But his bow does physical damage. The ranger's attacks now have to start over, he has to reduce the physical armor pool to get at the health pool. I just don't like this system.
I'm not a min-maxxer. I'm a roleplayer. I don't pick the best stuff because it's the most powerful or effective, but because it fits the character or what I have in mind, and this armor system encourages me to build a single-damage party instead of the mixed party I have planned. Having a mixed physical/magic party is versatile, but with the way armor works, far less effective. It would be boring to only deal one type of damage I think.
Maybe as I play I will notice some tweaks from the new Definitive Edition, perhaps it plays better or I will grow to not be bothered by it as much. My complaints about the reworked initiative system also were evident. This is a fantastic RPG, and in virtually every other way it's amazing. It's beautiful. It's well-acted, even the descriptive stuff is voiced. You know how you'll have some dialog, and the narrative will say something like
"The shopkeeper slowly raises his head, but seems to take no notice of you.." This is all fully voiced.
The thing is, both of these things I complain about were introduced for the second game. It didn't work this way in the first. Maybe I should just play that one
But the rest of it is a masterpiece. And the music. The music is glorious.
I haven't found a comprehensive changelog for the Definitive Edition, but for those who might be wondering what changes were made check this link
Man, this sh!t's hard. I've played through on Tactician before, but I don't recall it being quite so difficult. I am getting my ass kicked from here to Tuesday, but it's pretty awesome. Perhaps some of the changes for the Definitive Edition made it more challenging? I need to sort of probe around looking for ways to gain XP. Fight those crocodiles? Party wipe. Reload. OK, let's see over there, some tainted turtles. Wiped again. Reload, how about this group of bandits? Got 'em and the XP. What's in this dungeon? Oh my, too early
I could play in Classic mode, which would make the fights easier. But I don't want to. You know how in most games --all games really -- higher difficulties mean more hit points, boosted weapons and other clear 'cheats' for the AI? Well, in D:OS it means the AI actually fights better. They use more skills and abilities. For example in Classic I've never seen the AI use teleport. In Tactician they do, so you could at any moment watch as one of your party members is teleported on to lava and dies instantly. The upshot is that in tactician you'll see far more varied play from the AI as well as have to deal with many more statuses -- shocked, stunned, knocked down, charmed etc -- than on lower difficulties.
This is the sort of thing I bemoan in so many games, Total War being a good example of cheating AI at higher difficulties. I say I just wish they would play better. In Original Sin that's exactly what it is, and I cannot give that up because it's hard. And as an experienced player not just of RPGs but of Original Sin, I know that I will start to catch up. As I level and gain new talents, abilities, spells and gear the gap will narrow, and if I play on lower difficulties the late game will be too easy. So better to persevere early so that the late game is still challenging.
Earlier I was talking about the armor system and kicking around ways to offset it. Pondering using a single-damage party with all characters built to deal either magical or physical damage. I've sort of done this, but not fully, as magic is still a staple. But I've set up my party to all be able to deal physical damage, and the magic is mostly for buffs, debuffs, crowd control and healing, but not damage aside from necro, which is physical. Having three swords and one damage-dealing fire wizard just doesn't work well as an example.
For anyone who likes the game and is considering giving it another go because of the new version, just do it. The game is even better than before, and there is new stuff. One thing I will mention and it's a spolier, but one you would encounter an hour in to the game, is a new squirrel character that you meet and he tags along with you. I highly recommend making Pet Pal your pick at character creation so you can talk to the animals straight away. This squirrel is hilarious.
As mentioned I think this game is the best of the bunch, and playing it again two years later, having played Deadfire, Tyranny and Kingmaker and others since then, just reinforces my view. Opinions are subjective and I don't expect everyone to like it. But if isometric RPGs are your bag, you have got to play this game. And play it on Tactician, where the combat is the best ever (in my opinion of course)
DBond, since you love Divinity Original Sin, have you ever played through the original Divine Divinity?
I have not, though it's in my library as it was bundled with D:OS 1. I've read good things, but Original Sin is so good that I just play that instead. What's your take on Divine Divinity Blastman?
I hate Diablo with a passion--mainly because it is Gauntlet with a mouse, and Gauntlet is meant to be played with a controller. I love, however, the Ultima series, particularly 6 and 7 which are open-world masterpieces. Few games have ever sucked me in like they have. Divine Divinity is Diablo meets Ultima, with combat like Diablo, but worldbuilding like Ultima. So I was able to overlook the combat to enjoy the actual plot, the world, and the characters put within the world to give them game personality and charm. So long as you make good decisions when you apply skills to your character, you should be able to do fine. But there are multiple outcomes and choices have real effects on the world.
I absolutely recommend, if anything to see where Larian came from. But the game is fantastic--and I hate Diablo. I'm even contemplating a second run through after losing my savegames to a hard drive bbq, and I was in the last quarter of the game.
Kingdom Come Deliverance continues to amaze me. I spend 90% exploring the world, talking to folks and solving problems, and very little if ever in combat. And I love it. I've also devised a very devious scheme...
In most every RPG I've ever played, I have been a Paladin, or at the least a lawful good, or neutral good character. Essentially my RPG avatar mirrors my real-life personality of that where I couldn't even kill a common house bug, and view life as an immeasurable gift. But I'll kill bad guys. But... what if I /were/ the bad guy, for a change, but to everyone in the world who knew no better, appeared to be the good guy?(no spoilers, please)
So, I learned how to read yesterday. This is the first step towards my plan. I'm hopeful what I have in mind works, but from what I see in Deliverance, there truly appears to be a living, breathing world, with folks going about their daily routines, and I think I can have some nefarious fun here, defying my conscience, same as I did in Elite Dangerous as a pirate. If it works, I might share the story here.
But not since Ultima 7 have I seen a world that feels as alive as what I've seen here, so far. I am glad this game is not another Elder Scrolls/Skyrim clone. Those are so dead and lifeless(except for maybe Morrowind), whereas Deliverance is delightful, so far, despite the bugs and myself using a save game mod because I hate repetition and redoing hours of work due to a cutscene not autosaving after a major game event.
High praise. Maybe I'll give it a go. Thanks for the recommendation.
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Kingdom Come Deliverance continues to amaze me. I spend 90% exploring the world, talking to folks and solving problems, and very little if ever in combat. And I love it. I've also devised a very devious scheme...
By all means, share it. Love that game myself.
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But... what if I /were/ the bad guy, for a change
You gotta play Tyranny.
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whereas Deliverance is delightful, so far, despite the bugs and myself using a save game mod because I hate repetition and redoing hours of work due to a cutscene not autosaving after a major game event.
That's cool, although when I played through saves weren't an issue. I thought they would be, but I fell in to a cycle, sleeping each night, which saved it, and it all went fine. But whatever works, and losing progress sucks, so yeah.
Well, I did something sinister last night. On my way back to town I came across a group of bandits doing battle with a couple of soldiers. One of the soldiers panicked and dropped to his knee, begging for mercy, pleading for his life as I galloped past and came to a stop, while the other ran into the woods off the side of the road while one bandit gave pursuit. I finished off one of the accosters and saw that the soldier on the road had gone catatonic, so I ran to the woods, where the remaining solder was flailing his torch in desperation. In an effort to help, I killed the bandit and gained reputation, but...
That soldier that was catatonic?
He ran up behind me and shouted, "Halt! You're under arrest!"
For helping his cohort. Ungrateful dolt. So, what do I do?
I ran! Ran and jumped on my horse and sped off. In most games, I would restore my game. But not this time. No, I devised a plan. I couldn't have him make it back to town to report my false crime, now could I? So I came back, trotted up slow behind him upon my horse, and waited for him to notice. His buddy was gone. And he got mad when he saw me, so I dismounted, killed him when he attacked me, looted him for all his good stuff, and left his body in the grass well off the side of the road. Problem solved. No guards in town paid me any attention. It was as if nothing had ever happened because in 1400, the police don't have motorola. =)
Earlier I mentioned how I was struggling to win battles in the early stages of Divinity Original Sin 2 playing on Tactician mode after deciding to give it another go in the wake of the Definitive Edition release. This mode makes combat far more challenging than in the Classic and certainly the Explorer or Story modes, which I've not tried. Tactician removes the shackles on the AI and they can and will deploy their entire suite of abilities. Player levels 2 and 3 seem to be the most difficult (for me anyway) as the better AI places a premium on your party's combat prowess.
By level 5 however, some of this gap is overcome, partly through attributes and skills, but mostly through gear. It's around this point that your party begins to become properly fitted out. Combat is still a true test, but the feeling of being too underpowered compared to the enemy is mitigated. Weapons, and especially armor pieces, allow you to survive the initial high level spells that most enemies fire in the opening turns.
It's about this time too that you'll escape the opening area, which brings new vendors and characters with higher level stuff. Gear in Original Sin is stat leveled, so you'll only use any particular piece of gear for a short time -- a few levels at best -- before replacing it with something better. My main is a Ranger. At level 4 I found a crossbow called the Houndmaster which was a nice step up. At level 5, after following the companion quest for Ifan, he received another crossbow called the Shadow's Eye. I stole it. This bow nearly doubled my damage, as well as granted the Chameleon Cloak ability. This sort of acquisition is a big shift, and gear in DOS 2 is an essential part of the process on Tactician. A fight which was a toss-up before now becomes considerably easier with this additional capability.
Poor Ifan. I used him for his bow. After taking it I stripped him of all his gear and dismissed him. Just room for one Ranger in this party! He now stands around the Seeker camp in his skivvies with a Toy Crossbow slung over his shoulder. Not very imposing I must say
I am really glad to revisit this game. I'll say in any RPG thread that it's my favorite, but playing it again against the recent experiences with Kingmaker, Deadfire and others, really shows how amazing it is. Those are fantastic RPGs in their own right, but for me DOS 2 is clearly the finest. It has it's weaknesses -- inventory is still a bit of a mess, the map and journal could use some work, and some combat mechanics don't suit me -- but taken as a whole, it's the best isometric RPG I've played. The graphics, voice acting, music, story, writing, quests, character building, combat and companions are all top notch. Load times are fast, fast travel is instant, framerates are smooth.
If my praise doesn't swing you, here's a 10/10 review of the new edition from Gamespot. You can even play it on consoles!
I have been playing through Divinity 2 Developer's Cut over the past year. So, what do I think?
The graphics are very nice, but gameworld-wise compared to the first one, doesn't seem to draw me in as well. The story is good, and definitely has some great sequences--especially one part where you choose minions--fantastic.
But I haven't been sucked in like I was on the original Divine Divinity. I could not stop playing Divine Divinity for weeks--which is rare. Over the past few years, there have only been a handful of games that have sucked me in: Dragon's Dogma, Prey, and so far Kingdom Come Deliverance. At best, I can hope for one game every year or two to grab my attention. Not even Witcher 3 has been successful doing that.
The only thing I'm honestly disappointed with in Divinity 2 is the dragon flight--for the most part it is nice, but I can't ascend or descend vertically using the space bar and a crouch button. The only way to change altitude is by flying forward and nose up/nose down. With a dragon, I should be able to beat my wings and have complete vertical control, regardless of momentum. I would think. But I don't, and that drives me nuts.
You don't need to play the first game to play the second. It's a pretty cool game, but the first worked better for me. Not to mention Divine Divinity has some of the absolute best 2D graphics in an RPG, especially with the widescreen fix.
I'm an Ultima 6 and 7 fan. My bar is ridiculously high for world design. Think J.R.R. Tolkein level.
For two bucks though, Divinity 2 is a great buy. Definitely worth a try.
That´s what I thought too, at this price it´s worth a try at least. Either way the whole saga is on sale, so one can pick there posion if so Still on the fence with DOS EE, will see. I have DOS2 DE that I havent played yet, so that why Iam still on the fence with DOS EE.
Thanks for your impressions Blastman, Very useful.
Red, I recommend both of the Original Sin games and $27 for DOS 2 DE is a great price.. I think the second one is a better game, but in some ways I prefer the combat of the first game. There were many changes for DOS 2, most for the better IMO, but some less so. For example, one thing you can drop points in is Leadership. In DOS 1 it was a great ability. It could grant +5–10 Initiative, +10%–15% Damage, +10% Chance to Hit, +2% Critical Chance, +10% Armour, Fear Immunity, +1 Willpower and +1 Bodybuilding to all party members within 5m of the leadership character. For the second game it was reworked to mean that each point would increase the bonus to party members as +2% Dodge and +3% to all resistances. Useful I suppose, but far below what it did in the first game. The upshot is that due to opportunity cost, a player will probably ignore Leadership in DOS 2. Those points are better spent elsewhere. Honestly, on Classic or below it doesn't really matter how you build your characters, it's all viable. But on Tactician you have to be more selective to have success. It's more dangerous and deadly and character builds and especially party synergy are paramount.
I'm now level 9 and have reached the second island. I am loving it. The new version isn't all that different, but it's noticable and even better now. What a fantastic RPG. And most of the rework is in the final Act, so I am looking forward to that. But not in a hurry.
I go on about how great I think the combat is, and partly it's due to how integral terrain and elements are. How you (and the AI) can manipulate surfaces, how elements can be combined and how terrain height factors in. The high ground is a real thing in DOS (if you have the Huntsman ability). It not only increases damage, but range as well, or each is decreased when shooting uphill. Since I am playing a Ranger main, this is wonderful, and makes it feel more tactical than in most RPGs. There are a number of abilities to assist me in repositioning, such as Tactical Retreat and Spread Your Wings. And if you succeed in escaping the Ghetto with the black cat who tags along still alive, he gives you a summon ability and a swap places perk. So you summon the cat. leap him to high ground and swap places with your ranger. Costs 2 AP which is nice.
The combat is an ever-changing tactical puzzle which constantly asks questions of the player. Each encounter is different, and it is a lot of fun to work it out.
Another really cool thing about DOS is it is classless. Many RPGs now have multi-classing, but DOS goes further and is classless. Any character can have any ability. The class you choose at creation is simply a template (which itself can be altered at game start). Where you go from there is up to you, limited only by your imagination and the points you have to spend (and the skillbooks you have). Of course if you spread too thin you'll be versatile at the cost of how powerful you are. And from the start of the second act you can respec at will at no cost. So if you happen to find a few cool skillbooks you can simply respec a character to use them if you want, or if you regret the path you chose. It's free-form character building taken to the limit.
So Red, I highly recommend, no I implore you, to give one of the DOS games a go. If you are good with character builds and RPG combat you should play in Tactician. It's worth it. Doesn't matter which game you start with, and since you already have DOS 2 might as well start there and if you do not like it you can save the money of the first game. It would be great to discuss the finer points of the game with someone
And one more point....the voice acting is superb. For such a huge game, with tons of dialog, it is really amazing. There's a character called Malady that you will meet, and her voice actress is phenomenal. The narrator is excellent, well just all of it. Top shelf.
Thanks for all your input above, very kind of you, and yes I belive you Bond, they are good games to play. Just not sure if your implore magic is gonna work on me yet, or maybe your magic scrolls have been cursed ...
Because Spiderweb Software (Exile remakes by Jeff Vogel) are on sale at GOG, so here Iam again choosing one or two of them! A side from that, his new work just came out today too, Queens Wish: The Conqueror.
It's cool, play what interests you. Who knows, you could find DOS not your thing.
As for me, I'm still forging ahead in DOS 2. I'm level 16 and just finishing Act 2. Playing the Definitive Edition on Tactician is the hardest RPG I've played. The battles are ridiculous sometimes. I walked up to one witch that was hovering over a big fire surface. She threw me some shade, as the kids say, disparaging my lineage or whatever insults she hurled. But that wasn't the worst part, After PASSING a speech skillcheck she attacked anyway after summoning some nasty looking creatures. But they never got a chance to go, as her first turn one-shotted my entire party. All dead, in 3 seconds or so. Need a new plan I reckon and she was the same level as me!
I am meticulous about gear, skills, party synergy, quest order and on and on, and none of that mattered one bit as she made me look stupid. I have yet to go back to her. I might just skip her altogether. Every battle is a test. It's so hard at times that I'd love to see folks step up and take it on and see how they'd do, if for no other reason that to give me a barometer to stack myself up against. I suspect that many would just quit in disgust
So don't play Tactician if you just want to enjoy a romp through the game. It's a test of your RPG mettle. I'm quite pleased to have made it this far. The cool thing is it forces me to come up with all sorts of crazy strategies, using every inch of the mechanical latitude the game allows. I'd be bored playing on Classic, just using the same basic rotation through each battle. On Tactician you really need to use your noggin.
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