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HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019)

Posted By: reconmercs

HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 06/28/19 01:01 AM

Really gonna need Hollyweird to stop remaking classic movies just to make them worse than the original. The CGI looks HORRID.... and of all directors, they give this to Roland Emmerich....SERIOUSLY?!?!

Posted By: Pooch

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 06/28/19 01:17 AM

Oh man! I had such high hopes for this film. Really, that looks friggin awful. I see Pearl Harbor and the Doolittle Tokyo bombing. The Midway battle, alone, wasn't enough to fill up a two hour movie?
Gotta admit that I'm a bit dissapointed by that preview. Thought I'd be running out to see it the day it's released. I'll wait til I can rent it.
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 06/28/19 01:17 AM

Mark my words, this will be just as cheesy and bombastic as “Pearl Harbor”.
Posted By: Crane Hunter

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 06/28/19 01:19 AM

Seriously, that looks like a game intro from 2002.
Posted By: reconmercs

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 06/28/19 01:26 AM

Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Mark my words, this will be just as cheesy and bombastic as “Pearl Harbor”.



Stupid love triangle aside, I actually don't mind "Pearl Harbor" its obviously not historically accurate but at least they used a few real warbirds, this looks like early 2000s computer graphics at best.
Posted By: wheelsup_cavu

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 06/28/19 02:52 AM

Not the least bit surprised it is this crappy considering what I saw about who was involved before the trailer came out.


Wheels
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 06/28/19 10:35 AM

I see this film being a box office flop not only because of the niche subject matter but because it just looks horrible based on the trailer.


Maybe the studio should have hired Chris Nolan instead to make this? He hit it out of the park with "Dunkirk".
Posted By: Tom_Weiss

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 06/28/19 11:01 AM

I rather watch Sound of Music instead.
Posted By: Raw Kryptonite

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 06/28/19 01:21 PM

Looks good to me, but I fully expected simhq to generally hate it. LOL
I’ll probably see it in the theater.
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 06/28/19 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by Raw Kryptonite
Looks good to me, but I fully expected simhq to generally hate it. LOL
I’ll probably see it in the theater.



I don't think anyone on SimHQ is expecting any kind of "high brow" deep intellectual interpretation of Midway but I think its perfectly reasonable to expect a war movie to not look like a frenetic video game and to not have the obligatory cliche love story.
Posted By: Raw Kryptonite

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 06/28/19 01:51 PM

The cgi looks fine to me, but who knows, it may still be in production since it doesn’t come out until Nov. As for love story, maybe there is one. All I saw was a little girl and Mandy Moore, I guess living on base. It wouldn’t be out of place since soldiers have families and loved ones. How well it’s presented remains to be seen, but I don’t see any reason to be negative about it.
Posted By: DBond

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 06/28/19 02:06 PM

Having read the comments before watching the video I was expecting much worse. Clearly it's CGI but I thought it looked allright.

And the credits revealed it has Woody in it, so that's not all bad biggrin

I'm more interested in this than 99% of the other movies.
Posted By: Pooch

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 06/28/19 02:27 PM

I guess I'm going to have to get use to the, over the top, CGI images of modern film making. That's just the way it is now. I was hoping to see at least one real SBD roll over into a dive. And as usual, the tie fighter CGI mechanics, of the airplanes. The Zero's flying down the street two feet off of the ground look as though they were taken right out of "Pearl Harbor."
And that isn't on base housing. You can be in Honolulu and see the naval base. It made security, there, rather difficult. Spies working out of the Japanese embassy on Oahu used to go on a hill, near the base, sit down with some lunch, and watch the goings on there. They would take note of the times that the PBY patrols would leave and come back, how many ships in the harbor...etc...
But I was expecting a more realistic approach. Hoping, anyway. Doesn't look like it.
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 06/28/19 02:34 PM

I agree 100% with Pooch.


There is nothing made in Hollywood today that comes close to movies like "A Bridge Too Far", "Patton" or "Tora, Tora, Tora" in terms of staying as close to historical fact as possible and not having to rely on a constant bombardment of over the top action scenes.
Posted By: F4UDash4

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 06/28/19 03:22 PM

I don't mind CGI, there aren't enough WWII birds of enough types, especially not Japanese, flying to stage a real air battle using just real aircraft.

But CGI doesn't have to mean unrealistic maneuvers and flying. The strafing down the street at treetop level for example, utterly ridiculous.
Posted By: ArgonV

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 06/28/19 04:06 PM

I don't care I still want to see it. The original Midway movie was... Not great.
Posted By: F4UDash4

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 06/28/19 04:22 PM

To each his own, I thought the 1976 Midway was great.
Posted By: Raw Kryptonite

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 06/28/19 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by ArgonV
I don't care I still want to see it. The original Midway movie was... Not great.


Yeah, the side stories in particular had a whole lot to be desired.
Great cast, but fairly crappy otherwise.
Posted By: Mr_Blastman

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 06/28/19 04:32 PM

Meh. Just play some 1943 and get the same experience, except you get to call the shots:

Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 06/28/19 04:38 PM

The 1970’s Midway film absolutely proves that having a great cast means nothing if your script sucks.
Posted By: Pooch

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 06/28/19 05:24 PM

I didn't like the 70's version, at all. They used too much old WW2 combat film that has been seen in movies since the forties, for Pete's sake. Lots of scenes of Hellcats taking off from Essex class carriers. And for the big dogfight over Midway they used the scene fron "The Battle of Britain!" Geez!
The guy who played Heston's son was way too whiny, for my taste. The whole, "You won't help my Japanese girlfriend! I hate you!" crap was a bit much. The kids a FIGHTER PILOT! Please.
I was hoping that this was the film that would do it right.
Posted By: Crane Hunter

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 06/28/19 06:00 PM

Midway and other important WW2 battles are the kind of subject matter that would be handled much better by crowdfunded indie efforts rather than low common denominator focussed Hollywood.
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 06/28/19 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by Crane Hunter
Midway and other important WW2 battles are the kind of subject matter that would be handled much better by crowdfunded indie efforts rather than low common denominator focussed Hollywood.


Ding! Ding! We have a winner ladies and gentlemen. smile


Having said that, I have NO CLUE how Chris Nolan managed to make his "Dunkirk" film a box office hit in the US. That guy must be an alien with super powers or something.
Posted By: Tarnsman

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 06/29/19 01:45 AM

And people thought "Pearl Harbor" was bad.
Who else is thinking of re watching "Tora Tora Tora", right now?
Posted By: Blade_RJ

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 06/29/19 03:10 AM

cgi didnt look bad for me, it was the composite that looked off in some scenes, and the color pallete chosen that makes it stand out. but the story seeem, eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek
at least we can skip to the good bits
Posted By: reconmercs

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 06/29/19 04:14 AM

So... there are actually two movies based on the Battle of Midway coming out this year....This one also has crappy CGI but at least the story looks a bit more interesting/believable. Its supposedly based on a true story.




As far as real airplanes for movies, really wish the warbird community would get off their asses and start volunteering their services more often. Seriously. You don't need large fleets, just a few and supplement it with large scale models and supporting CGI, Dunkirk and even more recently Hulu's Catch 22 prove that:




Posted By: Pooch

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 06/29/19 04:51 AM

Recon, to tell you the truth, that other one titled "Dauntless" doesn't seem to be telling the true story at all. That whole thing with the SBD's getting creamed and the Admiral turning on the lights so they could make it back is pure bullshite. Didn't happen. The U.S. air groups at Midway did not return at night time.
I don't know how well they are sticking to the story of Midway in "Midway" just yet. The woman you saw with the little girl is playing the wife of Commander Dick Best who was the squadron C.O. of the SBD's aboard the U.S.S. Enterprise. So, at least that is true.
One of the things that bothers me is the need to show the attack on Pearl Harbor and the bombing of Tokyo. They have to fill up the two hours with constant frenetic action. I would like to see some build up. Maybe some training being done, maybe some scenes of life aboard the carriers. What was going on behind the scenes where the code breakers were working. Like "Tora Tora Tora." I guess today's audiences don't want that. A film has to begin with an action packed scene or people get bored.
Well, we'll see. But, I'm not as anxious to see it as when I'd first heard about the project.
Posted By: Pooch

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 06/29/19 04:55 AM

Oh, and by the way, I think that Catch-22 showed how to do CGI airplanes scenes the right way. They looked real, and didn't do anything that a real B-25 couldn't do. It was very convincing.
Posted By: reconmercs

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 06/29/19 05:49 AM

Originally Posted by Pooch
Oh, and by the way, I think that Catch-22 showed how to do CGI airplanes scenes the right way. They looked real, and didn't do anything that a real B-25 couldn't do. It was very convincing.


Very true, the large formation scenes looked great! Also, there were 2 real B-25s used for the show along with a real C-47 and real JU-52:


http://warbirdsnews.com/warbirds-news/catch-22-remake-warbirds-over-sardinia.html
Posted By: Ajay

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 06/29/19 01:07 PM

This movie will probably suck big time but i'll drag my kids along to it just to flush out all of the super hero movies i have been inundated with by them over the last decade.
Posted By: Falstar

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 06/30/19 01:54 AM

Uhhh Uhhh Woody Harrelson, I'm sold
Posted By: KraziKanuK

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 06/30/19 12:28 PM

Why am I thinking another 'Red Tails' type movie?
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 06/30/19 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by KraziKanuK
Why am I thinking another 'Red Tails' type movie?



You would be correct sir. It seems current day Hollywood CANNOT make a war movie without relying on endless explosions and over-done action scenes and also without any cliché dialogue.
Posted By: Sokol1

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 09/13/19 01:11 PM

https://www.imdb.com/list/ls053181649/videoplayer/vi2275786521?ref_=vi_nxt_ap
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 09/13/19 01:23 PM




I think you put the wrong link. smile


Anyway, reconmercs already posted a link to the trailer in his initial post.
Posted By: Arthonon

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 09/13/19 01:29 PM


That goes to a video where stars talk about embarrassing shows they like, and you have to click on the Midway trailer on the right
I think this goes directly to the Midway trailer:
https://www.imdb.com/list/ls053181649/videoplayer/vi3198992153?ref_=vp_pl_0

It looks like the sequel to "Pearl Harbor" that nobody asked for.
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 09/13/19 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by Arthonon


It looks like the sequel to "Pearl Harbor" that nobody asked for.



Now that is a perfect description!!
Posted By: Nixer

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 09/13/19 02:28 PM

Cool...a 2 hour CGI cut scene from a never released video game.
Posted By: Dart

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 09/13/19 02:58 PM

The needless love triangle in war films is just about as old as making war films, as is including an actress to share the center stage.

Even my beloved Wings had to be re-written before shooting to include Clara Bow, as she was (literally) the "It girl" and the studios wanted her in the film to increase box office.

That they did it as good as it could be done is neither here nor there...they still had to do it, and it really didn't add to the story one bit.

Indeed, the formula was invented right there and has been repeated over and over again, except the Wings approach where at the end of the war the love interest and the protagonist don't wind up together has been abandoned. I think how they ended the film wound up paying off her inclusion.

Caveat: Yes, I know that Clara Bow wasn't written as a love triangle; she was the girl with a crush and the object of romantic dispute wasn't even shown after the first two minutes, but it still remains.
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 09/13/19 03:09 PM

Interesting post Dart but Hollywood has shown that you can make a perfectly great war film that is commercially successful without it having any kind of love triangle/interest. Patton, A Bridge Too Far, Platoon, Apocalypse Now, The Longest Day and many other films fall under this category.
Posted By: Pooch

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 09/13/19 03:18 PM

There's no love triangle here. As I've already mentioned, the woman in the film is playing the wife of Commander Dick Best, C.O. of the SBD's aboard the U.S.S. Enterprise. I don't see anything wrong with showing the pilot's private lives. That's hardly what's wrong with this.
It's things like that attack by the Japanese "Nell" bombers. I think I saw one crashing into a carrier. When the Hell did that happen? And what's with the,
"I think it's Midway, sir!"
"Well, Washington doesn't agree!"
"Washington is wrong!"
Never happened! Everyone pretty much agreed that there was a good possibility that the Japanese were going after the little island. They just weren't sure. In all of their messages about the attack, the Japanese only reffered to their target as "Island X." Hence that clever trick the U.S. Navy used, sending the fake message about Midway's water purification system not working.
I don't know. I was just hoping for a more serious take on the subject, guess.
By the way, people keep reffering to the film as a remake. No it isn't. It's just another film about the Battle of Midway. Pearl Harbor wasn't a remake of Tora Tora Tora.
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 09/13/19 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by Pooch

I don't know. I was just hoping for a more serious take on the subject, guess.




And that's the catch. If you are going to do a wide theatrical release for a relatively big budget film then you have to appeal to the lowest common denominator if you want to make a profit.


There is certainly an audience out there for serious war films but you won't find it at the movieplexes. You would need to release your film on a streaming service or on a cable network like HBO which caters to niche audiences.
Posted By: Ajay

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 09/14/19 01:59 AM

Saving Private Ryan. No love triangle and constantly tops lists of best war films and crushed it at the movies.
Posted By: The_Admiral

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 09/14/19 02:59 AM

I don't want to defend some of their artistic choices - obviously everything is always too close to each other, too low, explosions too big, actors too bombastic, etc...
The whole thing do look like a trainwreck to people like us, but still, they did their homework on a number of things and, moreover, I'd better have one big movie (and a smaller one actually at the same time) about the topic than none at all. As you can imagine, making a realistic game about the topic myself, my skin sometimes shivers at the sight of some of these shots - but it's not all bad, I am going to say why in just a minute

First, though, I would like to address a couple injustices Ive read over here, if I might - sorry in advance Pooch wink

Originally Posted by Pooch
Recon, to tell you the truth, that other one titled "Dauntless" doesn't seem to be telling the true story at all.

Well, the Dauntless' starring crew doesn't seem to be based on a SBD actually, more like one of the few surviving TBDs, that is VT6's 6-T-8 crewed by pilot MACH Albert Waldo Winchell and gunner RM 3/c Douglas Marvin Cossitt. They had it all, from the die hard ditching, the hurting, the ultimate rescue on the 17th day at sea, and along the way they even had a Japanese submarine close on them, inspect them and leave them to their fate. You can't invent that.
A lot of SBDs ditched on the way home (Enterprise's airgroup was already very short on juice even before finding the Japanese force) so it could be based on another tale. If a SBD was substituted to a TBD though, I could understand in regard of the action I suppose. Still.

Originally Posted by Pooch
That whole thing with the SBD's getting creamed and the Admiral turning on the lights so they could make it back is pure bullshite. Didn't happen. The U.S. air groups at Midway did not return at night time.

Well, it did happen, and they did come back at night time! On the second day Spruance planes that went out there looking for Hiryu didn't find her (she had slipped beneath the waves by then) and had to return at nightfall. Spruance took the decision to switch on the lights. It might have played a small role in Mitscher's own decision to do the same at the battle of the Philippine Sea, as Mitscher at that time was the CO of Hornet.

Originally Posted by Pooch
It's things like that attack by the Japanese "Nell" bombers. I think I saw one crashing into a carrier. When the Hell did that happen?

During the raid against the Marshall islands, a Nell tried a desperate dash for Enterprise's deck and crashed into the water after scratching the flight deck, sawing in half a SBD with its wing. AMM 2/c Gaido had been manning his defensive gun during all the action, and stayed there even when the sawing happened. Gaido died at Midway, as his dauntless ran out of gas and had to ditch. His pilot and him were captured by a Japanese destroyer (Makigumo), beaten, tortured and eventually executed at sea, which obviously makes him an interesting topic for some dramatic story-telling.

About the Marshall raid and the G3M's attempt at early kamikazing (with a pic of the SBD cut in half)
http://www.cv6.org/1942/marshalls/marshalls_2.htm
https://usnhistory.navylive.dodlive...ate-first-class-amm1c-bruno-peter-gaido/

Originally Posted by Pooch
And what's with the,
"I think it's Midway, sir!"
"Well, Washington doesn't agree!"
"Washington is wrong!"
Never happened! Everyone pretty much agreed that there was a good possibility that the Japanese were going after the little island. They just weren't sure. In all of their messages about the attack, the Japanese only reffered to their target as "Island X." Hence that clever trick the U.S. Navy used, sending the fake message about Midway's water purification system not working.

Well Washington didn't agree with the analysis, that one part is true. That is why Pearl Harbor had to make sure that Washington would follow them in their assessment. People usually think think that the water purification ruse was made so that the US side as a whole could ascertain that Midway was the target, but truth is they knew it before. It was more of an internal affair - HYPO (Hawaii, that had a special connection to Nimitz as CINCPAC) was pretty sure about its own interpretation pointing to this info, and OP-20-G (Washington, which directly reported to King as COMINCH) disagreed regarding the reliability of the assessment that Midway was the next target, which naturally had an impact on Nimitz' own on-going debate with King for force allocation. The Pearl Harbor crowd pretty much "tricked" the Japanese into sending the message without telling Washington, so that Washington would come to that conclusion alone by decrypting the said message. Washington didn't know it got somewhat, hum, "played" until after the battle. Again, the script doesn't need to go look for the drama very far, it's just there right before their eyes.

Altogether, I can't hate the idea of this movie. Emmerich is having fun, right, at the expense of the authenticity, true that. But historically speaking, most of the depicted episodes actually happened, and the overall amount of research deployed for details, accessories and the rest is still pretty good - if not staggering considering past attempts in the WW2 genre (U-571, anyone?). But some have pointed out that 1976's Midway ain't really a masterpiece either - still, a lot of those who saw it when they were kids still hold this movie dear to their hearts, and remember that time fondly. Some movies age better with the progressive embitterment of our hearts and the development of our critical sense (Tora Tora Tora, A Bridge Too Far...), some others very much less so (Midway, Battle of the Bulge...) but in the latter case, if you were at the movies with your dad in 1976, or by the family Christmas tree a few years later during a TV screening, and remember that you first came to know about Dauntlesses and carriers when watching it, I'd rather thank them for this opportunity than shoot the messenger. I expect Midway to exactly play this role for the younger generation - at a certain point, the interest in these battles is running thin enough like that year after year not to welcome any initiative of the kind that will broaden the audience, even just a tad bit.

And then they can go on buying our game, but that's another story entirely wink
Posted By: Ajay

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 09/14/19 04:48 AM

Nail on the head. Midway,Tora, Bulge etc. Loved them as a kid and spurred major interest that lasts until this day. They all put me to sleep these days though.
Posted By: Pooch

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 09/14/19 03:51 PM

Well, hopefully, with everything else I'm wrong about, I'll also be wrong about how well this film is done. I want to come away saying, "#%&*$#! That wasn't wasn't half bad at all!" I'm really hungry for a movie of this type.
Posted By: The_Admiral

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 09/14/19 03:54 PM

Well. Hum.
Honestly, no, I will bet that you're gonna be right about that one, unfortunately ^^
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 09/14/19 11:18 PM

Don’t forget that this was directed by Roland Emmeriich who is essentially the German Michael Bay.

‘NUFF SAID.
Posted By: reconmercs

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 09/15/19 02:28 AM

Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Don’t forget that this was directed by Roland Emmeriich who is essentially the German Michael Bay.

‘NUFF SAID.



Michael Bay has made some stinkers in his time but he still has "The Rock", "Bad Boys", "13 Hours", "Armageddon" and I will still defend the first "Transformers"... Emmerich has "Independence Day", everything else has been garbage IMHO
Posted By: Arthonon

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 09/15/19 03:29 AM

I think "The Rock" was OK, and I agree that the first Transformers wasn't bad (I don't know anything about the original Transformers story line, so that might be why), but just about everything else he's made that I've seen has not been something I've liked.

For Emmerich, the only move he's made that I thought was any good was the original Stargate movie.
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 09/16/19 10:44 AM

I just looked it up online and the production budget for the film was 100 million.


There is NO WAY this movie will make a profit at the box office.


As for Michael Bay, he is decent at making action movies. He just needs to stay away from any kind of historically-based subject matter.
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 09/16/19 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by Arthonon



For Emmerich, the only move he's made that I thought was any good was the original Stargate movie.


Same here. "Stargate" is the only Emmerich film I actually have on bluray.
Posted By: reconmercs

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 11/05/19 02:55 AM

Welp.... I guess I'm gonna have to take back some of my criticism of Emmerich... I just got back from a screening of Midway... and.. It's actually a pretty good movie! The CGI is still pretty bad and the Pearl Harbor scenes are ...bad, really bad but once they actually start delving into the battle of Midway, Emmerich does a really good job depicting the actual battle from both sides and fleshes it out a lot better than the older film. It does a good job depicting how big of a battle it was. If you can get past the CGI and horrid depiction of the Pearl Harbor attack, I'd definitely recommend checking it out!

One gripe I did have beside the above mentioned, there is not a single US fighter plane depicted in the entire movie which was just odd, they even depict a few other planes I won't spoil since they aren't in the trailer but not a single F4F Wildcat or F2A Buffalo is depicted in the movie ...
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 11/05/19 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by reconmercs
Welp.... I guess I'm gonna have to take back some of my criticism of Emmerich... I just got back from a screening of Midway... and.. It's actually a pretty good movie! The CGI is still pretty bad and the Pearl Harbor scenes are ...bad, really bad but once they actually start delving into the battle of Midway, Emmerich does a really good job depicting the actual battle from both sides and fleshes it out a lot better than the older film. It does a good job depicting how big of a battle it was. If you can get past the CGI and horrid depiction of the Pearl Harbor attack, I'd definitely recommend checking it out!

One gripe I did have beside the above mentioned, there is not a single US fighter plane depicted in the entire movie which was just odd, they even depict a few other planes I won't spoil since they aren't in the trailer but not a single F4F Wildcat or F2A Buffalo is depicted in the movie ...



You may find this interesting:

https://variety.com/2019/film/features/roland-emmerich-midway-1203387268/
Posted By: reconmercs

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 11/05/19 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted by reconmercs
Welp.... I guess I'm gonna have to take back some of my criticism of Emmerich... I just got back from a screening of Midway... and.. It's actually a pretty good movie! The CGI is still pretty bad and the Pearl Harbor scenes are ...bad, really bad but once they actually start delving into the battle of Midway, Emmerich does a really good job depicting the actual battle from both sides and fleshes it out a lot better than the older film. It does a good job depicting how big of a battle it was. If you can get past the CGI and horrid depiction of the Pearl Harbor attack, I'd definitely recommend checking it out!

One gripe I did have beside the above mentioned, there is not a single US fighter plane depicted in the entire movie which was just odd, they even depict a few other planes I won't spoil since they aren't in the trailer but not a single F4F Wildcat or F2A Buffalo is depicted in the movie ...



You may find this interesting:

https://variety.com/2019/film/features/roland-emmerich-midway-1203387268/



that definitely explains the quality for the visual effects, sucks that its getting harder and harder to do these types of films in Hollywierd...
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 11/05/19 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by reconmercs



that definitely explains the quality for the visual effects, sucks that its getting harder and harder to do these types of films in Hollywierd...



That's why more and more film-makers are going to streaming services. You get much more bang for your buck by releasing a movie on a streaming service than you do by releasing it theatrically unless of course it's a huge established money making franchise like Star Wars, Jurassic Park, Marvel, etc.
Posted By: carrick58

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 11/05/19 07:00 PM

A Bridge to Far , The longest Day, B and B , Run Slient Run deep. Band of Bros, all nailed it for me the others about WWII just &&&*&*&
Posted By: Crane Hunter

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 11/05/19 08:08 PM

Many of the no-budget indie WW2 films on YouTube are better than anything Hollywood has made in a long time.
Posted By: F4UDash4

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 11/05/19 08:12 PM

Mark Felton has a great channel on YouTube and the old Wings / Great Planes programs can be found there as well. Much better than any military documentaries created in the last 10-20 years.
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 11/05/19 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by Crane Hunter
Many of the no-budget indie WW2 films on YouTube are better than anything Hollywood has made in a long time.



You explained the reason right there in your post. They are no-budget/tiny budget so there's very little risk involved if not very many people watch the film.
Posted By: Crane Hunter

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 11/05/19 11:54 PM

Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
You explained the reason right there in your post. They are no-budget/tiny budget so there's very little risk involved if not very many people watch the film.


And the microbudget efforts will only continue to get better as Hollywood keeps getting more cringe.
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 11/06/19 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by Crane Hunter


And the microbudget efforts will only continue to get better as Hollywood keeps getting more cringe.



There's a huge seismic shift going on now with the entire box office/theatrical distribution system due to the advent of streaming services. More and more consumers are simply not bothering to see certain genres of film in the movie theater anymore and instead are just watching them online. With some very rare exceptions like "Dunkirk" the war/military genre is one of those affected by this shift.
Posted By: muffinstomp

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 11/09/19 09:00 PM

Ok, the numbers and consumption development are a debate quite valid. But I have to come back on the trailer...

I'm speechless, the CGI are lacking behind some 12 years. IF you'd like to make people think it was possible and adequate to fly 10ft above the pavements (to have a better aim on kitchens and playgrounds?) it should look convincing at least. And it just doesn#t at all.
Zekes diving into that hell of AA among the ships to empty their peas over that walls of steel is just to much for me. And starting with the lighting on all objects involved, sources of flashes, dubious shadows, a/c physics, exaggerated numbers and formations aloft it feels so wrong.
And to make things worse:
Over-emphasized drama sequences like the Dauntless going down faster and faster are depicting that kind of warfare wrong for most of the audience. Not aware of the complex technologies and efforts built into that plane many people will think the pilots are too daring and deliberately were risking their crate to come apart from pure speed/audacity. The actual tension should be down to one infernal minute of deadly ackack blasting by your heads. That supposed air race factor yet is offending my last remains of military common sense.

I don't know what Emmerich is after at all. Make a living, sure. But is there any story line apart from getting knocked once and hitting back hard in return? Scared girls, extra-dumb politicians and (luckily) some Mr.X on the right track? How much luck was involved that the US could finally show some skills and bravery? We sure would have missed out on some pretty good heros, right?

Is it a blatant show-off in "Bagged them!" or a (rather weak) attempt to give the former veterans one more kudos? Was it just that Emmerich felt insulted by the way Pearl Harbor dealt with the matter? Well, I was too.
Anyway, as a director who kind of built his glory on a pretty good CGI film I don't know how the heck he can coms around with battle scenes like those. Is this truly a genuine contemporary Hollywood/cinema production?
Posted By: NoFlyBoy

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 11/09/19 09:08 PM

When I first heard about this a long while back and that it's by Roland Emmerich, I knew it's gonna suck just like Michael Bay's Pearl Harbor did.

Also from Midway, there were only 4 B-26 based there that attacked the Japanese carriers fleet using torpedoes.

In the movie, they showed like 20-30 of them all attacking at once from high altitude using bombs.

Then there is another scene showing the Midway's based SBD attacking the Japanese carriers fleet and 5 of them get shot down together and they all followed the leader into the ocean, one after another within seconds of each other.
Posted By: Bill_Grant

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 11/13/19 05:48 PM

Has anyone gone to see this movie yet?
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 11/13/19 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by Bill_Grant
Has anyone gone to see this movie yet?


I will not see it in the theater but I will at least give it a shot when it's on Netflix or cable.
Posted By: Arthonon

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 11/13/19 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by Bill_Grant
Has anyone gone to see this movie yet?

Hey Bill, there's a website for building aircraft models that I frequent, and not surprisingly they are very interested in this story, the aircraft involved, and even some historical accuracy. Overall, those who have seen it are not completely dumping on it.

Here's a link to that discussion:
http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/310500-saw-midway-tonight/
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 11/13/19 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by muffinstomp


I'm speechless, the CGI are lacking behind some 12 years.



It MAY sound like a lot of money but the budget for the film was only 100 million. To make a war epic theatrical release today with a well known cast of actors and top of the line CGI, you are looking at a minimum 175+ million dollar budget.
Posted By: NoFlyBoy

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 11/13/19 07:27 PM

Red Tail sucked. Lucas should be ashamed!

This new Midway is an insult to everyone who fought in the Pacific theater.

I haven't seen it and never will not even if it's free but I hear is historically inaccurate.

Plus Woody Harrelson as Admiral Chester W. Nimitz?

He may be the right age as Nimitz was in 1942 but he just doesn't look believeable as Nimitz.

Henry Fonda as Nimitz in the original Midway.

Now he was Nimitz!
Posted By: NoFlyBoy

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 11/13/19 10:14 PM

Yup.

Watching something intelligent and accurate about the Battle of Midway instead of that Hollywood trash.

https://www.smithsonianchannel.com/shows/battle-of-midway-the-true-story/0/3475927
Posted By: MigBuster

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 11/13/19 10:18 PM

Saw it last night and thought it was very good actually - one of the better WWII films of recent years IMO
A few hollywood moments in there but was definitely more towards the Tora Tora Tora historical side of things with them playing actual characters and the CGI seemed pretty good to me.

A good intro for those not familiar with it and a good bit at the end highlighting each main character and what they went onto.
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 11/14/19 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy
Yup.

Watching something intelligent and accurate about the Battle of Midway instead of that Hollywood trash.

https://www.smithsonianchannel.com/shows/battle-of-midway-the-true-story/0/3475927



That's why this is called a "documentary" and not a "movie". wink


Having said that, sensationalist and just simply incorrect statements like these bug me:

" It's June 1942 and the world's fate is about to be decided by a handful of pilots and their untested aircraft."


Um...no. The "world's fate" was indeed decided during the Battle of Britain and then later on again at Stalingrad but the US victory at Midway while important did not determine the outcome of the entire war but instead was the turning point of the war in the Pacific.
Posted By: F4UDash4

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 11/14/19 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer

Um...no. The "world's fate" was indeed decided during the Battle of Britain and then later on again at Stalingrad but the US victory at Midway while important did not determine the outcome of the entire war but instead was the turning point of the war in the Pacific.


I agree that the "world's fate" verbiage is a bit much the same logic you use to debunk it can be applied to the Battle of Britain/ Stalin grad. Those battles determined the fate of Britain / Soviet Union, but not the world. Germany was never capable of conquering the world.
Posted By: NoFlyBoy

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 11/14/19 01:38 PM

So what would had happen if Japan won at Midway, destroyed all 3 carriers, and then went on and took Hawaii causing the US to lose their Pacific shipyards and naval base?

The U.S. will sooner or later build more carriers and their mighty Pacific fleet.

Wouldn't Japan still ended up losing but just a bit later maybe in 1946 or 1947?

Or will a loss at Midway and the loss of Hawaii cause the US to concentrate on Germany and not put so much effort in the Pacific against Japan until Germany was defeated?

During that time, however number of years it would take to defeat Germany, Japan would be left unfettered to continue its conquest of the Pacific which will probably include Australia and New Zealand?

If that were to happen, after the US has finally defeated Germany, maybe they will leave Japan alone since it had conquered most of the Pacific and its island and countries and negotiate a peace?

Is that also a possible outcome?
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 11/14/19 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by F4UDash4
Germany was never capable of conquering the world.



It wasn't and that also was not in Hitler's plans anyway. However, an Axis victory in the USSR would have meant the elimination of a major huge front for them and the Axis would have then been able to concentrate their forces in North Africa to fight the UK and the US.
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 11/14/19 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy


Wouldn't Japan still ended up losing but just a bit later maybe in 1946 or 1947?




I think this would have been the most likely scenario. A Japanese win at Midway would have only bought them more time since Japan was hopelessly outclassed compared to the US when it came to industrial capacity/production. I believe Japan built less than 10 aircraft carriers during the war while the US built well over 150 between fleet, escort and light carriers.
Posted By: muffinstomp

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 11/15/19 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted by muffinstomp


I'm speechless, the CGI are lacking behind some 12 years.



It MAY sound like a lot of money but the budget for the film was only 100 million. To make a war epic theatrical release today with a well known cast of actors and top of the line CGI, you are looking at a minimum 175+ million dollar budget.


I guess you're simply right. On the other hand he could have focused on other (cheaper) aspects within his movie before it gets to look cartoonish.

Thx for your posts, Panzer. You've shared some interesting links already in this thread.
Posted By: vonBaur

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 11/16/19 02:47 AM

But "the fate of the world hangs in the balance" sounds so cool. And dramatic. And it's Hollywood.
Posted By: Bumfluff

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 11/16/19 05:15 AM

Nope. The Russians are right on that count. The flower of the Wehrmacht was snuffed out at Stalingrad. Was all downhill from there.
Posted By: NoFlyBoy

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 01/12/20 09:01 AM

Watching this.

Let's make crap up, Hollywood.

At the beginning of the movie, during the attack on Pearl Harbor, the USS Enterprise, located 170 miles west from southwest of Hawaii (that is the correct position) launched SBD Dauntless dive bombers to locate the Japanese carrier group.

Once the Japanese fleet was located, the Dauntless were instructed to mark the Japanese carriers with smoke bombs and the torpedo planes from the Enterprise would be dispatched to sink them.

That never happened in real life!

Not only that, the Dauntless were sent 185 degrees when the Japanese fleet, both of them, were north and northeast of Hawaii.

Those Dauntless should had been headed 320 degrees.
Posted By: NoFlyBoy

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 01/12/20 09:27 AM

After Pearl Harbor, the movie moved on to this which I was quite surprised by it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshalls%E2%80%93Gilberts_raids

Very few people know about this.

Between the events of Pearl Harbor and Midway, most everyone think the first attempt by the USA to take the war to the Japanese is the Doolittle Raid.
Posted By: NoFlyBoy

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 01/12/20 11:28 AM

This is a Chinese co-production!

It's alright.

The CGI is dumb.

Showing 10 planes diving on a carrier like a bunch of sheep following each other into the ocean.

I doubt that's the tactic that was used by the US carriers torpedo and bomber planes at Midway.

They mentioned a few names of those who took place in the battle on both sides but they left out Ensign George H. Gay.

The historical accuracy was correct on some things and wrong on many.

I was in middle school at the time when the first Midway movie was released in 1976.

I spent hours at the library researching the subject by going through dozens of books and pouring over countless newspapers articles on microfiche on the battle:

remember, back then in 1976 there was no internet and WIKI and SIRI and GOOGLE and so on.

I wrote a 10 pages paper on the Battle of Midway which earned me an A+.

Now if you want to know about it, just open the WIKI page.

Too easy!
Posted By: Nimits

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 01/13/20 03:25 AM

Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy


Wouldn't Japan still ended up losing but just a bit later maybe in 1946 or 1947?




I think this would have been the most likely scenario. A Japanese win at Midway would have only bought them more time since Japan was hopelessly outclassed compared to the US when it came to industrial capacity/production. I believe Japan built less than 10 aircraft carriers during the war while the US built well over 150 between fleet, escort and light carriers.


Probably, but, as with all what-ifs, you change one thing, and how many others change? Historically, the Guadalcanal campaign, even after the victory at Midway, delayed the American offensive operations in Europe by several months. If the American navy is forced to pull back after a crushing defeat at Midway, would the US have instead gone into a complete holding operation in the Pacific and concentrated harder on Germany, or would it have delayed the war against Germany even longer?

If the former, do the Americans have the will to fight the war into 1948 or 1950, given that the Japanese would probably have taken all of New Guinea, Samoa, Christmas Islands, etc. and at least seriously threatened Australia, New Zealand, Hawaii, and India in the meantime. Moreover, the Japanese Navy, will still outnumbered would feature 8-10 fleet carriers with presumably better quality crew and planes than were frittered-away historically in the naval-air actions in 1943-1944? After 10 years of war, is the American public willing to accept a negotiated peace?

If the latter, the bomber offensive is later getting started, German armament production possibly reaches its full potential (or close to it), artillery production is not diverted to anti-aircraft weaponry, and the Luftwaffe fighter force is not withdrawn from the Eastern Front. In 1943-1944, the Luftwaffe is able to hold its own against the VVS, possibly even maintain local air superiority over critical areas, and the Heer, not nearly as short on artillery and anti-tank guns, has a much better chance of repelling Soviet attacks (which themselves would be severely lacking in logistical support if Lend Lease were curtailed). Presumably with the Allied buildup and landing in western France delayed several months or even years, Hitler and the OKW do not feel it necessary to funnel a disproportionate number of high-quality, highly-mobile SS, Panzer, and Panzergrenadier divisions (as well as large numbers of Panthers and Tigers) to the Western Front, leaving eastern army groups with mobile forces sufficient to contain and possibly even destroy Soviet breakthroughs. Given that, historically, the Soviets were nearing the end of their "endless" manpower reserves in the spring of 1945, a German military that manages to stay fully focused on the Eastern Front all through 1943 and 1944 probably at least stalemates the Soviets for the foreseeable future. If the war in the east "got stuck" for a couple of years, would Stalin and Hitler have been willing to negotiate a peace? Probably not, but we do know Stalin considered seeking terms a couple of times early on, so it is not entirely impossible, and if that happened, how would the war have gone?

Certainly, of course, Americans could have probably resolved things in their favor later in 1945 or 1946 by delivering nukes world-wide. . . but then again, if the Germans held out a couple of years longer, or the Japanese managed to get hold of sufficient quantities of uranium (both possible if America lost at Midway), could they have developed an atomic bomb in time to keep the United States from using at as war-winning weapon? While the odds are against it, they are much better than what the historical timeline allowed.
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 01/13/20 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy
This is a Chinese co-production!




Simply put, the film would not have been made at all without money from multiple studios and foreign sources.


Having said that, "Midway" was still one of the costliest commercial flops of 2019.
Posted By: wormfood

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 01/13/20 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy
After Pearl Harbor, the movie moved on to this which I was quite surprised by it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshalls%E2%80%93Gilberts_raids

Very few people know about this.

Between the events of Pearl Harbor and Midway, most everyone think the first attempt by the USA to take the war to the Japanese is the Doolittle Raid.


I was surprised by that when I saw it as I didn't think it, or the Doolittle raids, would be in a film about Midway. I thought it was a good job to include some historical accuracy and lesser known operations. I guess they had to do something to balance the mediocre CGI, bad aircraft tactics, and airplanes that ignore physics.

The only big thing they got really wrong that I can remember was where and what the carriers were doing when Pearl Harbor was attacked. In the movie they were on their way to Pearl with more aircraft and historically they were on the way to Wake to reinforce the air group there.

Overall I it wasn't bad and I kinda liked it. BUT, I went in there with really poor expectations based off the terrible trailers. Also, it being Hollywood I also expected them to get most everything completely wrong. So, ah, good job Hollywood for exceeding some very low expectations.
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 01/13/20 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by wormfood
So, ah, good job Hollywood for exceeding some very low expectations.



I guess it all boils down to what level of historical inaccuracy the viewer is willing to let slide. If a viewer is expecting 100% historical accuracy then trying to find that in a Hollywood movie is a waste of time. They might as well watch only documentaries.


I'm thinking right now and I believe "Tora, Tora, Tora" is probably about as close as any Hollywood-produced film has even reached to being 100% historically accurate but in my opinion I don't think those types of war movies really sell anymore with today's audience.
Posted By: wormfood

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 01/13/20 08:33 PM


Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted by wormfood
So, ah, good job Hollywood for exceeding some very low expectations.



I guess it all boils down to what level of historical inaccuracy the viewer is willing to let slide. If a viewer is expecting 100% historical accuracy then trying to find that in a Hollywood movie is a waste of time. They might as well watch only documentaries.


I figure if we judge it by baseball stats, the 30% accuracy of Midway is pretty good.
Posted By: Nimits

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 01/14/20 02:21 AM

Originally Posted by wormfood
.

The only big thing they got really wrong that I can remember was where and what the carriers were doing when Pearl Harbor was attacked. In the movie they were on their way to Pearl with more aircraft and historically they were on the way to Wake to reinforce the air group there.


Enterprise had already flown off the F4Fs to Wake and was on the way back to Pearl on 7 Dec 41. In fact, if some rough weather had not slowed her down, she would have been pulling into Pearl right about the time of (if not just before) the Japanese attack. A group of Enterprise aircraft did fly into the middle of the attack, and others were shot down by friendly fire later that night when they attempted to land at Ford Island.
Posted By: wormfood

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 01/14/20 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by Nimits
Originally Posted by wormfood
.

The only big thing they got really wrong that I can remember was where and what the carriers were doing when Pearl Harbor was attacked. In the movie they were on their way to Pearl with more aircraft and historically they were on the way to Wake to reinforce the air group there.


Enterprise had already flown off the F4Fs to Wake and was on the way back to Pearl on 7 Dec 41. In fact, if some rough weather had not slowed her down, she would have been pulling into Pearl right about the time of (if not just before) the Japanese attack. A group of Enterprise aircraft did fly into the middle of the attack, and others were shot down by friendly fire later that night when they attempted to land at Ford Island.


Thanks for that Nimits. Guess my memory isn't as good as I thought.
Posted By: Mr_Blastman

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 01/14/20 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy

Now if you want to know about it, just open the WIKI page.

Too easy!


I'm not nearly as old as you are but I do remember card catalogs, and that saddens me that our youth today will never experience such antiquity in their learning endeavors. Because information is so readily available now, they'll practically trust any McWebsite because™. Truth be told, though, stuff like Wikipedia is so easy to edit and change. Most of the information was hardly vetted by a team of professional editors or authors or had to face public scrutiny on the book store shelves, or deal with the reviewers in the press.

The information is there, so it must be, because.
Posted By: Arthonon

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 01/14/20 05:54 PM

Wiki certainly has issues, but when books were published years ago, I'm sure many of them were fraught with inaccuracies as well, but no one every went back to correct them. Believing something just because it's in a book is not much better than believing it because it's on a website, in my opinion. Both still require multiple cross-references to ensure you are getting accurate information.
Posted By: Mr_Blastman

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 01/14/20 06:34 PM

True, published books aren't guaranteed accurate. In fact, many publishers will not vet content contained within books, but generally speaking most authors will go to greater lengths to verify what they are writing is accurate. Their reputation is on the line, and if they were to continually produce works that were inaccurate, they run the risk of publishers dropping them or the public not purchasing their work. With Wikipedia there is little financial benefit to prune the work so it is accurate.

But publishers aren't a shield, as they'll routinely blockade authors from publishing if their works do not conform to the accepted ideals of the "in" crowd. There are books and authors out there rife with bias and agenda, and some of them sell very well to a fanatical fan base.

The rule of thumb with any research is multiple sources at all times.
Posted By: Nimits

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 01/15/20 04:45 AM

Originally Posted by Arthonon
Wiki certainly has issues, but when books were published years ago, I'm sure many of them were fraught with inaccuracies as well, but no one every went back to correct them. Believing something just because it's in a book is not much better than believing it because it's on a website, in my opinion. Both still require multiple cross-references to ensure you are getting accurate information.


Books for sure can have mistakes of varying degrees of severity. The big difference is that you cannot (1) change or delete information from a book without people knowing it and (2) you know who wrote the info (and, if it is a serious/scholarly work, where the author got the info), both of which are not consistently true on Wikipedia or other internet sources.
Posted By: F4UDash4

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 01/15/20 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by Nimits
Originally Posted by Arthonon
Wiki certainly has issues, but when books were published years ago, I'm sure many of them were fraught with inaccuracies as well, but no one every went back to correct them. Believing something just because it's in a book is not much better than believing it because it's on a website, in my opinion. Both still require multiple cross-references to ensure you are getting accurate information.


Books for sure can have mistakes of varying degrees of severity. The big difference is that you cannot (1) change or delete information from a book without people knowing it and (2) you know who wrote the info (and, if it is a serious/scholarly work, where the author got the info), both of which are not consistently true on Wikipedia or other internet sources.


Example: The absolute worse error I've ever seen in a book was in a biography of Astronaut Alan Shepard, "Light This Candle" by Thomas Neal. The author described transpositioning and docking as happening in earth orbit, then the Apollo CSM using it's engine to send the stack on to the moon. There were other inaccuracies about aircraft/spacecraft etc. all through the book, things that a person with no technical knowledge of aviation or spaceflight would not notice. Made me question the entirety of the book, ie the personal things about Shepard's early life that I can't verify.
Posted By: wormfood

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 01/15/20 03:59 PM

Another problem with older books on WW2 is they were written without the benefit of any Japanese or Russian sources.
The other problem, in my case, is you read them 20-25 years ago, forget some of it, and then get other ones mixed in.
Posted By: F4UDash4

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 01/15/20 04:05 PM

For almost 30 years after the war all war histories were written with no knowledge of allied code breaking success, ie Ultra and Magic.
Posted By: Arthonon

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 01/15/20 04:19 PM

Just for the record, I wasn't saying that books weren't useful, or didn't have advantages over wiki pages, but that they are not a fully reliable source either, and in either instance, it is a good idea to read multiple sources and perspectives.

You don't necessarily know the bias of the person writing any book, and unless someone challenges the accuracy publicly, you may not hear about it. Also, an advantage of wiki pages is that they can be updated with new information as it becomes available, whereas a book cannot. So there are advantages and disadvantages to both, but I wouldn't rely on any one of them as being accurate without separate sources being compared.
Posted By: Timothy

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 01/16/20 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted by Crane Hunter
Midway and other important WW2 battles are the kind of subject matter that would be handled much better by crowdfunded indie efforts rather than low common denominator focussed Hollywood.


Ding! Ding! We have a winner ladies and gentlemen. smile


Having said that, I have NO CLUE how Chris Nolan managed to make his "Dunkirk" film a box office hit in the US. That guy must be an alien with super powers or something.



I look forward to Tenet.
Posted By: Timothy

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 01/16/20 09:08 PM

Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy

They mentioned a few names of those who took place in the battle on both sides but they left out Ensign George H. Gay.


I have his book signed by him.
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 01/17/20 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by Timothy



I look forward to Tenet.



Me too. Supposedly it takes place in the same universe as "Inception".
Posted By: Arthonon

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 01/17/20 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted by Timothy



I look forward to Tenet.



Me too. Supposedly it takes place in the same universe as "Inception".

Would that be the dream universe or the real universe? biggrin
Posted By: vonBaur

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 01/18/20 01:53 AM

Originally Posted by Arthonon
Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted by Timothy



I look forward to Tenet.



Me too. Supposedly it takes place in the same universe as "Inception".

Would that be the dream universe or the real universe? biggrin

Yes. rofl
Posted By: 3instein

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 07/02/20 12:45 PM

Really looking forward to Tenet as well and also wonder if it's related to Inception in some way.

It is a little strange that the main characters names aren't listed in IMDB as some believe them to be Cobb's (Leonardo DiCaprio) children in Inception and them being listed would give the game away. Will be the next film I'll go to the cinema to see.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6723592/

Mick. smile
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 07/02/20 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by 3instein
Really looking forward to Tenet as well and also wonder if it's related to Inception in some way.



The main actor in "Tenet" has confirmed that both films take place in the same universe.
Posted By: NoFlyBoy

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 08/02/20 12:57 PM

Tenet has been pushed back again from mid July to late July to August and now to September.
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: HOLY CRAPPY CGI BATMAN (Midway 2019) - 08/03/20 02:57 AM

Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy
Tenet has been pushed back again from mid July to late July to August and now to September.



Yup, it sure has.
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