homepage

Re: Miss Finland Poker Bluff...

Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Miss Finland Poker Bluff... - 03/31/16 05:15 PM

I don't think there's any reason that women can't play as well as men at all, if not better. I think women are master chameleons and poker players in life, psychological games come easy for them. A lot of what we see and think of them is on the surface- underneath that is extremely calculating and thought out, men project on to them all kinds of things like how vulnerable and sweet they are, and they play that up. If you were a fly on the wall in a women's restroom, they talk and act completely different when they go in there and talk with each other and gossip and share information than the image men and society projects onto them. This is the great big secret about women that men in Western society anyway are in the dark about.

When you see some woman who looks like a delicate little flower with some big bad boy thug, it's likely the woman who's the thug and the man who is the delicate flower in the relationship. Like attracts like, it's the male who deep down under the surface wants that delicate flower for companionship, that's what men are when they seek relationships with women. Men project onto women the values they are attracted to, women project on to men the values they are attracted to because underneath the masculine facade, men are actually quite emotional and desire feminine, motherly love, on the other hand, on the surface women are supposed to be sweet and delicate, it's the women who underneath that veneer who are attracted to power and dominance and status, they seek that by proxy when they are attracted to powerful or assertive males. The woman controls that relationship and can benefit by proxy by who she associates and who she controls and manipulates.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: I heard the fragance is a full frontal assault on your senses.... - 04/01/16 09:08 PM

Men sign the treaty. Women are in charge of relationships. They want to change and mold men into providers for the women once the male becomes attached.

When you look at early 20th Century and late 19th Century photographs of women, they aren't that attractive at all. Makeup technology and modern diet and fashion trends have come a long way to make women more attractive than ever, further, modern culture has put it the attitude into women that they are the prizes, and men facilitate this and are now in a totally different mindset. We have reversed the order as of late- the female has become the prize to be won instead of the male.

For the longest time in human history, women were always more of a burden and a responsibility for the men to take on rather than the other way around. For our ancestors, it would be far easier for a man to be alone and go solo and survive to old age than it would be for a woman without help from others. Women needed to perceive men as a 'catch'- someone who can provide for them, take care of them, and give them those tingling feelings once in awhile to make them feel ready to reproduce.

Our species evolved so that the self sacrificing, caring instinct of men to care for women ensures that the women and her children have better chances of survival- the dark part of this arrangement is that the female need not be self sacrificing for the male and to love the male to make this happen, the 'unconditional' love all flows downward like so:

Men love ---> women and women love ---> children and children love ---> animals.

Always remember that even an attractive woman's self esteem is inherently rather low, they are fully aware of all of this.

Posted By: CyBerkut

Observations and advice on relationships - 04/02/16 02:55 AM

Welcome to this new thread where observations, advice and expertise on relationships can be found. This will be the new home for the subject matter, so that it doesn't continue to intrude into other subjects. Those wishing to expound upon the subject, and those wishing to avail themselves of the expertise, can do so here.

Enjoy!
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/02/16 04:11 AM

Cool idea! thumbsup

I'm going to share with you all my KILLER lines and methods for getting with a honey, but you have to do them in order and over time or they might not work. This may be a little dated so make any adjustments where necessary.

(You can thank me later for this awesome free advice).

++++++++++

In a confident (but not cocky) manner, walk up to her table and ask...

1. "Can I sit next to you?"

If she says, "Sure", play it smooth. Don't woof down your pizza or toss your tater tots in the air and catch them with your mouth! Also, don't ask her, "Are you going to eat that?", this should come much later in the relationship.

When you're done eating and she breaks out the textbooks, don't start pestering her! In fact, break out your own books and pretend to do homework or something. Let her strike up a conversation when she's ready, and if she doesn't just tell her when the bell rings, "See you tomorrow". Let her know you're going to keep showing up every day no matter how boring she is, even if she doesn't seem to like you and is simply tolerating your uninvited presence.

++++++++++

If after a few days you haven't given up and she finally starts talking to you, it's time to take the next step with...

2. "Can I walk you to class?"

If she says, "Ok", be a gentleman and carry her books for extra credit. Keep good posture, don't look at all the nice ass walking by (at least don't make it obvious), and don't say anything stupid. In fact, play it safe and don't say anything at all, just walk by her side like you really want to be there.

++++++++++

After a few days of small talk in the cafeteria and walking her to class [plus a chance encounter at a movie theater], it's time to take the next BIG step and ask...

3. "Can I call you tonight?"

If she says, "Sure", and then writes her number on a piece of paper, you're freggin' in, bro! cheers
Posted By: Friday

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/02/16 09:44 AM

MarkG, you forgot #4, the police dawn raid your house, confiscate all your PC's and laptops and arrest you for grooming school girl :0)
Posted By: Vitesse

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/02/16 11:43 AM

Quote:
and arrest you for grooming school girl :0)


Hey, being a teacher gotta have some perks, no?
Posted By: CG2015

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/02/16 11:48 AM

Where's Mechanus.

He is always so informative.
Posted By: LB4LB

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/02/16 02:14 PM

Says it all:

Posted By: BD-123

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/02/16 02:18 PM

'Can I align my worm-ridden Galleon to your trim Frigate?'
Pinched from Otto Von Bismark's remark about the Austro-Hungarian Empire, but should work well in a club environment.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/02/16 02:21 PM

I've got serious game, yo! bananadance

I think it's about having confidence and just the right amount of swagger.

For example, if she's waiting for you in the foyer, don't come off as being over anxious to greet her. Make her wait a while with anticipation, in fact be the last one off the school bus. Walk down those steps with purpose (whatever you do, don't be a spaz and trip). Pretend you don't even see her at first, as if you have important business on your mind like your financials (how you're going to replace the lunch money you just spent on Battlezone and Defender).

If you're late walking her to class, play it cool like you don't care and walk away from her slowly. Don't start hauling ass to beat the tardy bell until AFTER she can no longer see you.
Posted By: Nixer

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/02/16 02:24 PM

"Are you a model?"

Believe it or not, I have seen it work, more than once.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/02/16 02:25 PM

^ That scene from Say Anything! rofl
Posted By: Vitesse

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/02/16 07:03 PM

You gotta love her completely.
Then you f@#$ing f@#k her discreetly.
And then you f!@#ing bone her completely.
But then you gotta f@#k her hard.

And that, lads, is how 'tiz done. Take it from me.

BTDT, probably.
Posted By: NavyNuke99

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/02/16 07:56 PM

There are few things more expensive than a woman who is "free for the night."
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/03/16 02:04 PM

Damn Vitesse, slow down! I haven't even gotten to holding hands yet! biggrin

In all seriousness, I'd say...

Kiss her. Kiss her passionately and kiss her often. Never stop kissing her.

Have an occasional good old fashion make out session (pretend to be courting her on an Andy Griffith episode). Remind her what it was you did that really stroked her fire in the first place (whatever that might be). In my case it was that first kiss.

Never understatement the eroticism of a good long kiss.

Hint: It helps to stay diligent on your oral hygiene. smile
Posted By: LB4LB

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/03/16 03:26 PM

Never under estimate the power of a moderately priced pair of diamond earrings. Either that or just start leaving the toilet seat down.
Posted By: Vitesse

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/03/16 03:38 PM

Quote:
Never under estimate the power of a moderately priced pair of diamond earrings. Either that or just start leaving the toilet seat down.


In terms of cost benefit, which one works out best?

Quote:
Damn Vitesse, slow down


... and that folks, is what she said!


In all seriousness, when it gets down to the moment, I find this old Guatemalan love songs works wonders...

Cuando limpiado mi cuarto
No encuentro nada
Adonde va con tanta prisa?
Al partido de fútbol

Posted By: CyBerkut

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/03/16 09:26 PM

Originally Posted By: Vitesse


In all seriousness, when it gets down to the moment, I find this old Guatemalan love songs works wonders...

Cuando limpiado mi cuarto
No encuentro nada
Adonde va con tanta prisa?
Al partido de fútbol



Not being literate in spanish, the appearance of "limpiado" did not strike me as an auspicious beginning. wink

I see it has a different meaning than what came to mind though... smile
Posted By: bones

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/03/16 10:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Vitesse
You gotta love her completely.
Then you f@#$ing f@#k her discreetly.
And then you f!@#ing bone her completely.
But then you gotta f@#k her hard.

And that, lads, is how 'tiz done. Take it from me.

BTDT, probably.


Tenascious D?

v6,
boNes
Posted By: NavyNuke99

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/04/16 12:47 AM

Originally Posted By: Vitesse



In all seriousness, when it gets down to the moment, I find this old Guatemalan love songs works wonders...

Cuando limpiado mi cuarto
No encuentro nada
Adonde va con tanta prisa?
Al partido de fútbol



rofl
Posted By: Nixer

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/04/16 02:59 AM

GREAT thread...this could become a classic.

Just needs a little more cowbell or detailed pseudo psycho babble rap.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/04/16 03:15 AM

I can provide a shot of cowbell...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQtwpm3p7Ak
Posted By: NavyNuke99

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/04/16 03:28 AM

You see, scamming's like fishing.

Posted By: TerribleTwo

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/04/16 11:18 AM

No sexy time without sexy mind.

No sexy mind without sexy time.


And that my friends is the ying and yang of what makes a relationship work between men and women. Those who understand the concept will be successful in finding their lifelong best friend and lover. Others will continue reading Internet forums.

Posted By: oldgrognard

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/04/16 11:24 AM

Finding women is easy.

Just be extremely handsome and extremely wealthy. Then don't be a jerk.
Posted By: Crane Hunter

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/04/16 12:04 PM

I for one detest a sense of self esteem in a woman, that's why I use clever insults and backhanded compliments to condition her to a point where she feels that she's merely a cheap piece of meat who's desperate for validation!
Posted By: F4UDash4

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/04/16 12:47 PM

Originally Posted By: oldgrognard
Finding women is easy.

Just be extremely handsome and extremely wealthy. Then don't be a jerk.


Or just be really extremely wealthy, then you can be an ugly jerk and still get women. wink
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/04/16 12:48 PM

You mean to tell me that all of those 20-something year old blondes who married Hugh Heffner in the past didn't do so out of pure love and affection?
Posted By: Wireman

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/04/16 12:51 PM

Sure, pure love and affection of frog pelts.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/04/16 02:06 PM

Since I stopped chasing "women" in grade 11, I can't relate. I bypassed all the BS of the dating scene (and ever having to wrap it smile ) but then I (we) bypassed experiencing a normal developing teen/young adult life. This caused conflicts (nothing unforgivable, thankfully) and we both agree that 20 was too young to marry. But then neither of us could ever see being with someone else, so I think we would have just dated or been engaged longer.

We weren't 100% compatible but we didn't realize it until after the wedding since we hadn't lived together previously (nor had we gone all the way, another risk of incompatibility albeit a small one). Would a trial run of living together made a difference, or were we just too young and inexperienced to enjoy smooth sailing throughout the early years?

Apparently deep down we loved each other enough to keep it together, but I think for example, my obesity was at least somewhat a mental issue of just not being happy with life.

I know one thing (and I love this candid pic my mom took as a reminder of what was), if I could go back in time (2006) I'd punch this #%&*$# right in his fat #%&*$# face...
http://198.65.10.229/DID/Temp/BR_Wedding.JPG

Years I can never get back. frown

++++++++++

I thought I had an appointment with Dr. Mechanus, where the hell is he???
Posted By: LB4LB

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/04/16 03:52 PM

Thought I'd throw this old chestnut in here:

Posted By: Crane Hunter

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/04/16 03:58 PM

I went into a bank the other day to pay a bill, only to find the snobbish female teller get really friendly and even engage in rather blatant suggestive air humping apon seeing the size of my account.

I got embarrassed and left.

She was ugly anyway.

Women are so shallow.
Posted By: LB4LB

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/04/16 04:17 PM

You can look like the Elephant man and smell like a wet dog, but if you got money you will get the honey.
Posted By: PFunk

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/04/16 04:25 PM

Never take her to dinner on the first date. Lunch, or coffee. That way, if things are going badly, you have an escape hatch and you didn't spend that much dosh. If it's going well, you can tell her you'd really like to do this again.
Posted By: No105_Archie

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/04/16 05:04 PM

To quote that famous American philosopher John Cougar Mellencamp : "forget about that macho sh!t and learn how to play guitar"
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/04/16 06:45 PM

The way to flirt with them is to talk to them like a bratty little sister. If you have one you'd say things like this: "Hey, No fair she's coloring outside the lines."

In a real situation, they say something like, "can I have a hug?" Tease them, but say it with a dry tone: "Are you sure you've earned a hug?"

This communicates no need or attachment on your part, since it sends a mixed signal- you're being dry, as if you don't care. It also takes her down a peg, it puts her in the position of coming to you for something rather than the other way around- she has to justify and ask for your permission to give you affection. Most guys would just readily do what she asks if she's attractive, most guys will jump at the chance. Doing that goes off script, and it scrambles their programming, importantly, it also begs a response, or you've won (and she can't let that happen).

If you're single, they gossip and wonder why that is. Men might gossip about women, but not the way women talk about men. It's brutal. They don't say it to your face, but they're trying to figure us all out. If you're shy they'll gossip why that is: whether it's an act to get laid or whether there is something wrong with you or whatever- the basic point is a catch-22. if you're already with someone, they like you more, it's like you've been pre-screened by another woman. If you're single, there might be something wrong with you (because if you were so awesome, why are you single), so they talk about that and chalk you up to being someone of lower worth, until you prove it to them otherwise. This is how guys have learned to act indifferent and cool, because it comes off as not being needy or desperate, unlike the endless waves of males orbiting around waiting for some attention from women, hoping for a chance. If you do anything else, they'll be polite and smile to your face, but talk about why you come off as creepy and share that information, it gets around and girls you don't even know will be aware of who you are on some vague rumors that you may be creepy. They talk about each other, too, it's brutal.

After this, I'm afraid of what I am going to suggest is rather dark. It's not as if ancient cultures like the Greeks had not come up with metaphors like the Sirens beckoning to men, leading them to their destruction, but they knew something even then. Some men will not be ready to accept this part, and they're going to get upset. "Not all women are like this, and so on, women aren't evil." Well, most if not all are in some way. It's not that they're consciously evil, they can't help it, it's wired in them, the same way men are wired to find a pretty, cute face attractive, it's not a conscious thing. But it's 'evil' for men, that's what kicks in that instinct to be attracted to them and want to care for them, those signs of youthful, 'innocent' attractiveness is how nature designed it to 'fool' men and to trap them and arouse their feelings so as to to protect and take care of the woman.

Women don't feel it this way at all, their feelings are kind of more one way, that is, they feel good by what men do for them. Those are the feelings they report to feel, they experience love in more egotistical terms, they don't feel or understand love the way we understand it. I think the way men feel it is much deeper. If you don't believe it, men are known far more to commit suicide after a relationship ends than a women does. Women get over broken relationships much sooner.

Look at a Yin-Yang. If you had to choose which side represents men, and which side represents women, consider altering everything we think about men and women to look at it like that.

It's men that represent the dark side on the surface. From birth, they're born 'white', kind of blank slate but 'innocent'. After life experience, they become 'dark' on the surface, this happens to everyone. Deep down the source is basically 'white' though, but they become darker because of what life does.

With women it's the opposite. They are 'white' on the outside, 'dark' on the inside as the source of their motivations and identity- that is to say, their heart. With women it's the white that's the facade and with men it's the dark (and of course there are males who are going to be bad seeds from the beginning, this is a generality). But women can't help it- they're wired that way, they aren't 'dark' by choice, but that's the way they are wired. But the thing is, they know it- they know that's what they are, they know that the white exterior is a show, and they do actually feel bad and low self worth because of it. They find it difficult really to be friends with each other because of this and because of catty behavior, because they know what are other women are like- you'll even hear them say that.

"Women have no sympathy and my experience of women is as large as Europe."

-Florence Nightengale







Posted By: NavyNuke99

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/04/16 07:12 PM

Originally Posted By: PFunk
Never take her to dinner on the first date. Lunch, or coffee. That way, if things are going badly, you have an escape hatch and you didn't spend that much dosh. If it's going well, you can tell her you'd really like to do this again.


Working in coffee shops in college, I got really good at being able to guess what dating site couples in obvious first dates had met on. It was fun.
Posted By: NavyNuke99

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/04/16 07:15 PM

As for flirting, this approach always worked pretty well for me:

Posted By: MarkG

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/04/16 10:08 PM

Do you sit next to or across from her at a restaurant?

<Apologies for going back to high school, during the get-to-know-you phase it's all I know.>

I remember in those early days always sitting next to my wife at lunchtime, sometimes a friend would be sitting across the table but even if the seat was vacant, I'd ignore it. To me, sitting next to someone isn't as intrusive as across from them because you're not constantly looking in their direction.

Once we really started dating and at a restaurant, I'd sit across in a booth (unless with another couple) and next to at a 4-chair table (seated diagonally).

I've notice couples in booths sit either way, just a personal preference? Or does it matter anymore, with so many smart phones at the table?
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/04/16 10:13 PM

Originally Posted By: NavyNuke99
As for flirting, this approach always worked pretty well for me:



Baby was ready to receive his energy right up until the moment he 'broke character'- then the whole act fell apart. Women experience this quite often, they've developed a number of tests to see if men are full of it, if they're all talk.

Looks are deceiving- women know this about men, for attractive ones used to men putting on a bad act, it becomes routine for them to weed out the wheat from the chaff even to the point that it becomes unconscious.

The important thing to realize is that women are far more deceptive, if that helps to gain confidence and momentum. The basic nature of woman is to put on a show (makeup, high heels, false confidence, and so on).

An ex girlfriend of mine from a few years ago, the last I've ever dated before I decided never to get involved seriously with any girl has me a bit worried. I think I'm in a chess game with a master player, but I'm not sure. I'm not sure who is the one being outmaneuvered- even when I think I am one step ahead, I'm just not sure.

I let her go nicely, but she won't stay away. The scary part is that her persona changes into something different every time I see her again- I know she's reading me and trying to modify her behavior into something that she thinks she's going to work. She tried the sympathy card, and it started working, so she found an in- she could turn on the tears and cry and turn them off again like a faucet. Then I'd see her five minutes later talking to someone else and she's totally different, laughing, smiling, evil looking.



Posted By: marko1231123

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/04/16 10:15 PM

Money will definitely get you a women
but I had a friend back in the day he was about five four skinny as hell and very little money
Give him an hour with the majority of women and he could charm the pants off them literally.
charm, he was born with the gift of the gab.as we say in Ireland
I had another friend who looked like a young Don Johnson back when Miami vice was big
He didant even have to speak or buy drinks they were all over him.
An then there was me sitting there like nervous rabbit trying to be as cool as the rest
I hated the dating scene. the funny thing is when I met my now wife I stopped giving a crap and believe it or not
started to get some attention from the opposite sex when on a night out with the lads
So my one piece of advice is don't try to hard even if you think the girl is the most beautiful girl in the world.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/04/16 10:24 PM

Originally Posted By: marko1231123

I hated the dating scene. the funny thing is when I met my now wife I stopped giving a crap and believe it or not
started to get some attention from the opposite sex when on a night out with the lads
So my one piece of advice is don't try to hard even if you think the girl is the most beautiful girl in the world.


This is easy to believe once you understand why that is so. See, women are more designed by nature to pursue and chase the male, not the other way around- to get that high value 'catch'- that's why it's called a catch. Pursuing is feminine, catty behavior.

My mother was a cruel, manipulative narcissist gave me one and only one piece of advice- women like a challenge (I didn't understand it then). It makes sense, the guys who are more challenging intuitively come off as more valuable and rare- like an expensive car or piece of jewelry.

In the dating game, women have noticed this ploy eventually when some men have figured out that at least pretending to play hard to get achieves better results, while more women with experience become wise to it; so it becomes more and more like an evolutionary arms race between predator and prey, the guys who truly don't care (which is difficult, if not impossible to find) become more rare the further up the ladder they go. At the bottom are all the lonely guys ready to jump at any chance- no good. In the middle are some guys who have at least some game. At the top is the cream of the crop- these guys have options, that's why they don't care. Women like guys who have other options, that signals that these men are high value.

A friend of mine told me some years ago he dropped in on his daughter at work, and he told me ever since then he never saw her or any women the same way again. His daddy's girl, who didn't know he was in the office who didn't know he was listening to the way she talked and behave was like a total stranger to him. Then when she was aware of him being there, she changed personas immediately and was his sweet daughter again.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/04/16 10:49 PM

I keep seeing "money" mentioned...

If a woman grew up without money or having everything handed to her, along with a drive to succeed financially themselves (maybe the two are connected), your money (or lack of) is not going to matter. Some men can have a problem with this (as I sorta did in my younger years comparing paychecks) but you have to get over it. Be proud of her accomplishments, especially if it's what you signed on for in the first place. The pride can still be hurt during a financial disagreement, especially when you know she makes the most cents, I mean sense.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/04/16 10:56 PM

Here's my take on money- it can be interchangeable with status. Status is how women evolved to see males when our ancestors didn't have money, status was the currency. In reality, most people in the world don't have money, the species however still procreates. But this is relative. In a poorer society where they don't have money, it's still the males that demonstrate more skills or mastery within that culture that have highers status- money is an indication of status in some cultures, just being physically more powerful and dominant or able to bring home meat in another indicates status in those cultures.

See, they can spot the potential breadwinners- maybe it's not cash right upfront, you could be a poor student studying hard, but they see that potential.

Men have figured this out who don't have a dime to their name but have figured out that having something that indicates status (an expensive car that the bank actually owns until all the payments are made), can fool women on the first pass.

It's really about status- status can be relative, because in a poor country or society, there are other ways to measure status. Women always try to trade up in status rather than down. In our culture, it's just that money is the easiest, first impression of status.
Posted By: LB4LB

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/04/16 10:58 PM

I can tell you from personal experience, be careful of getting involved with a women who grew up with money. I mean the trust fund baby, never had a job, has no idea the value of hard work and sacrifice kind of girl. As a young (and dumb) man I tried to make a relationship work with a girl like that. I came from very little money and got everything the hard way. She was just the opposite. I was thinking with the wrong head. I look back now and can't believe I was that stupid to have wasted that much time and effort. I was lucky later and found a girl who came from the same kind of socioeconomic background. Life has been much easier since.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/04/16 11:01 PM

And what do women want? More. More and more. They want it all. "What have you done for me lately"- leaving men confused and baffled as to how to make them happy when nothing seems to work. Past favors and benefits have no relevance on this, you have to keep demonstrating that more is coming down the pipe. Unfortunately for women, this actually makes them very unhappy- like spoiled children or rich adults who can have it all. Spoiled children and women will come to resent their givers and providers, they're not happy in life. If everything comes easy and they get what they want, life actually sucks.

Attractive women live a boring existence like this- because there are plenty of men lining up to do whatever they say, and it's not just with money or presents, with everything- open doors for them, get out of their way, put up with their BS, like what the women like, always agree with them, and be a nice guy for them. That's what life looks like to them. Much different perspective than what men have in life.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/04/16 11:33 PM

Fortunately attraction is relative and very individual.

*My* ideal of attractiveness is/was always outside of the mainstream (especially in the early-mid 1980s) so even though I experienced rejection from girls I found very attractive, it really wasn't so competitive (plenty of girls without boyfriends fit my preferences, even in a small town[s]). Still, I'm careful with my wording because most men don't find what I find attractive (especially today). If I were in the dating scene today, I would hope this would work in my favor, but it's not something I give much thought to.

I snatched a mate when we were both just 16 and still wrapping up our gangly teenage years, maybe this also worked in my favor. It's like a friend who takes every opportunity to tell me how much they hate Rush. I see this as a good thing, having a smaller fan base is why I *usually* get a decent seat at a concert. smile
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/04/16 11:52 PM

Originally Posted By: MarkG
Fortunately attraction is relative and very individual.


Yes, but there are basic models that people still find commonly attractive- their self esteem for example or sense of self worth and life experiences and expectations may turn them off from going after what they really want. In other words, people usually settle for what they are comfortable with.

It's not that all women will end up with guys with high status- there simply aren't enough of those guys to go around in monogamous societies. Likewise, it's not that all men end up with what they think looks ideal in terms of physically attractive (even in their estimation of it), they often feel those 'ideal' women are above them. So they are intimidated by them, or they don't look and act right around these girls, and the women sense what's happening- these guys.

But I will say that in terms of deep feelings, women are more shallow than men. They are emotionally driven, however, but again- it's more how they feel from moment to moment. They simply do not feel or understand love the way men do (and I've got a few of them to admit this- once that happens, they may even laugh about it once they realize there's no use to pretending with you).

They seem to understand they don't feel as deeply, men are curious and strange to them for this reason- they want to feel that, too, they want to have that idea of love as men seem to feel, but they never actually get it.

What they feel are more emotions generally, more easily triggered, but not as deeply, that's the sense I get after talking with women what it's like to be a woman. Sexually, their whole bodies are more erogenous than a male's, their entire bodies are like an erogenous zone. The right kind of physical touching is much more stimulating to them than to men- if you like a woman's touch, you can't really imagine what it's like to be a woman to get those tingly feelings. But they're more shallow in terms of their feelings, in terms of passion- that's why they are attracted to men, who are more passionate and romantic- notice passion and romance is directed at women rather than men- so that they can feel what they don't usually feel.






Posted By: oldgrognard

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/04/16 11:55 PM

Posted By: LB4LB

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/04/16 11:59 PM

Why am I thinking of this guy? Warning a little adult.

Deleted. See the NSFW notice.


Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/05/16 06:47 AM

Originally Posted By: Crane Hunter
I went into a bank the other day to pay a bill, only to find the snobbish female teller get really friendly and even engage in rather blatant suggestive air humping apon seeing the size of my account.

I got embarrassed and left.

She was ugly anyway.

Women are so shallow.


I went to an apple store once in Asia. All the women had this arrogant/haughty attitude. It pissed me off. I don't know what happened but when I came back for my unit they were nice to me. I ignored them and quickly left after I got what I came for.

I have this one rule. A woman who displays a bad attitude towards me on the first meeting without provocation is permanently blacklisted/ignored. Never had the patience to get around whatever fence/wall a stupid #%&*$# places around herself. The really idiotic, clueless ones take my reaction as sort of a game.

Anyway IMO I think the creation of this thread is a good move.
Posted By: komemiute

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/05/16 07:31 AM

Originally Posted By: Mechanus
And what do women want? More. More and more. They want it all. "What have you done for me lately"- leaving men confused and baffled as to how to make them happy when nothing seems to work. Past favors and benefits have no relevance on this, you have to keep demonstrating that more is coming down the pipe. Unfortunately for women, this actually makes them very unhappy- like spoiled children or rich adults who can have it all. Spoiled children and women will come to resent their givers and providers, they're not happy in life. If everything comes easy and they get what they want, life actually sucks.

Attractive women live a boring existence like this- because there are plenty of men lining up to do whatever they say, and it's not just with money or presents, with everything- open doors for them, get out of their way, put up with their BS, like what the women like, always agree with them, and be a nice guy for them. That's what life looks like to them. Much different perspective than what men have in life.



I've been married for over sever years and I've never experienced any of this.
Agreed, there were problems but it was definitely never something that had to do with "wanting more for the hell of it".
It's definitely more to do with learning to live together with another person rather than just share the same apartment and do stuff more or less co-ordinately.

But then again I think it's a "Raw material" problem- you can't make chocolate out of mud, despite sharing the same colour.

Just my .02
Posted By: Mad Max

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/05/16 08:38 AM

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
Posted By: VF9_Longbow

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/05/16 09:25 AM

In a place like an Apple store in any big city in East Asia, you're bound to see the worst of the bunch. There are shameless golddiggers everywhere, but not all girls are like that. Don't make the mistake of thinking that everyone is the same
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/05/16 05:05 PM

Originally Posted By: komemiute


I've been married for over sever years and I've never experienced any of this.
Agreed, there were problems but it was definitely never something that had to do with "wanting more for the hell of it".
It's definitely more to do with learning to live together with another person rather than just share the same apartment and do stuff more or less co-ordinately.

But then again I think it's a "Raw material" problem- you can't make chocolate out of mud, despite sharing the same colour.

Just my .02


I don't want to project anything into other people's relationships, I realized that's trouble. However, women aren't usually so dumb that they pull this off so openly and blatantly, unless the guy is such a sap that he gives away everything up front and sets that expectation from the get go. If women were that apparent so readily, all men would have figured out relationships and would have nothing to do with them.

In your example, you may have set good boundaries and expectations sooner rather than later, but I am saying that generally women are chess players.

When men say that women want good looks and money, that's true- what I'm saying is that they want it all. Even women say they want the whole package. They'll take everything if offered. Most guys aren't everything, it's rare to find anyone, male or female who are the complete package- looks, confidence, independence (financially and emotionally and so on). So likewise, all men report liking a pretty face, but not all men end up with that, again individual circumstances don't disprove the rule, there's things to take into account. By the same token, take a woman who looks like a bus ran over head- a women like that really can't expect to have it all, and her behavior won't be like that. Women of course want Prince Charming, but how many Prince Charmings are there? They often say they like tall, dark and handsome, but that's not what they often end up with. I personally never ended up with a gold digger, I'm not rich, that doesn't mean I haven't dated lots of women before. But, what I will say is that over time, the expectations of who gives more will start at some point flowing more and more in one direction- it doesn't have to be tons of cash, but in terms of small favors done or doing what she wants to do or go where she wants to go or becomes more the deciding factor.

That's how women view relationships from an early age- relationships are mostly theirs. The wedding is theirs, the man they land is theirs and so on- and the whole thing is like a competition with other women.

But I have to say it again, women are chess players, and relationships change eventually. It's a matter of time. It's a matter of time for us and for them.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/05/16 05:45 PM

I want to also add how many times friends' wives and girlfriends will flirt with me or start trying to get my attention when they see me out with a girl. It happens too much to be coincidence. This is how they're generally wired. They can't help it. It's not a conscious thing, it's what's wired into them. They're wired to find males more attractive who are more unavailable and who other women find appealing regardless of money, it makes a man more attractive to them. It doesn't mean that they'll actually do anything with that man, but it is the equivalent for them as when men see a hot body and cute face- whether married or taken or not, the guys can't help but notice.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/05/16 06:23 PM




Mechanus, when I read your posts sometimes I think of this guy...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awY1MRlMKMc

That's one way to deal with all the evil women. biggrin
Posted By: LB4LB

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/05/16 06:40 PM

Please God, don't let this thread go longer than the Matt Wagner one. biggrin banghead
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/05/16 06:50 PM

Well, I'm not a fan of Henry Rollins or Black Flag, not my style. I'm not angry like that persona suggests.

But the idea that males and females are entirely monogamous is a myth in my view, shared by others. They behave that way for whatever reason, but what goes on in their minds is a different matter. We all know the way men are- even married or taken men will unconsciously check out a woman when she walks by, studies in public have confirmed this is very normal. There was a program I watched years ago where male volunteers were fitted with a piece of technology into their sunglasses that tracked where eyes moved with a laser dot, and what was shown was very telling- these men, married or not, the laser dot was roaming all over the place, checking out just about any decent looking girl that walked by, scanning and looking at their butts and so forth. The men didn't even realize it when looking at the results.

What we're not used to thinking about and hearing is the female version of it- they do it, too. But men want to project onto women a sense of loyalty like men are expected to have, and women have helped this by declaring that only men are dirty dogs that behave this way, all the while the great big secret is that women are just as 'dirty', if not more so- they know it. I guarantee it. There is a movement underway that's meant to shame men as if they're the only ones who behave dirty and low down, meanwhile, women are these pure, angelic beings. This has always been around since romantic chivalry when men started projecting this Madonna image onto women, men don't want to think of the females in their lives who reared them and whom they respect in this way; the modern version of it may not look so quaint, but it is no less inaccurate.

Posted By: Wireman

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/05/16 07:01 PM

Originally Posted By: LB4LB
Please God, don't let this thread go longer than the Matt Wagner one. biggrin banghead


Aww come on, these kind of threads are great. They not only remind you that humans are the craziest people but proves it. wacky Its a gift that keeps on giving.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/05/16 07:13 PM

Well, the thing that's odd to me is what some of you evidently think is incorrect- as if everything is perfect for everyone. If you don't think everything is perfect, then what exactly is the problem?


I will say that with all the benefits of modern, first world society also comes delusions on top of that. One delusion is that men and women are essentially equal or the same. This doesn't make sense in my view- if men and women were the same, why don't women then just marry and date other women- if there's no difference, why doesn't this happen? Implication: no difference means there's nothing to discern.

So if we accept that basis, then think of the things that men and women think (or project) onto one another as what they find attractive. See how those look different. I will say that if a man walks into the wife store, generally, what the man shops for has a shorter list of interests. Ideally, cute, loyal, that about gets his eyes fixed first, everything else is icing on the cake.

Women in the husband store are going to behave differently. They're going to shop. It makes sense from the standpoint that women probably are going to need a longer list of higher quality ingredients to make and care for babies, right? Isn't that a reasonable supposition. And more discerning women who are hard to satisfy and seem to always want more- well, that would make an ideal mother as those benefits go into the offspring (not necessarily a more ideal partner for the man, though). A man need not be as discerning in contrast to produce more viable, healthy offspring, it is more on women to be wired like that, since they are the ones to carry the offspring and are much more vulnerable while doing so. It's more likely they need more of what the man has to give- genetics, love, protection, resources and so on, rather than the other way around (in order to successfully reproduce).

I say that while culture accounts for some things, certainly beware of the genetics going on under the hood, which I think accounts for a large part of what's going on. Culture is like the tip of the iceberg breaking the surface of the water. "Nature" is like the rest of the great mass of ice underneath the water.
Posted By: Wireman

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/05/16 07:18 PM

Originally Posted By: Mechanus
This doesn't make sense in my view- if men and women were the same, why don't women then just marry and date other women- if there's no difference, why doesn't this happen?


Ummm, which turnip wagon? biggrin
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/05/16 07:18 PM

Don't ask me, I just fell off the onion wagon.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/05/16 07:23 PM

Originally Posted By: Mechanus
Well, I'm not a fan of Henry Rollins or Black Flag, not my style. I'm not angry like that persona suggests.


Well, that's good to know. thumbsup


Originally Posted By: Mechanus
But the idea that males and females are entirely monogamous is a myth in my view, shared by others. They behave that way for whatever reason, but what goes on in their minds is a different matter. We all know the way men are- even married or taken men will unconsciously check out a woman when she walks by, studies in public have confirmed this is very normal. There was a program I watched years ago where male volunteers were fitted with a piece of technology into their sunglasses that tracked where eyes moved with a laser dot, and what was shown was very telling- these men, married or not, the laser dot was roaming all over the place, checking out just about any decent looking girl that walked by, scanning and looking at their butts and so forth. The men didn't even realize it when looking at the results.

What we're not used to thinking about and hearing is the female version of it- they do it, too. But men want to project onto women a sense of loyalty like men are expected to have, and women have helped this by declaring that only men are dirty dogs that behave this way, all the while the great big secret is that women are just as 'dirty', if not more so- they know it. I guarantee it. There is a movement underway that's meant to shame men as if they're the only ones who behave dirty and low down, meanwhile, women are these pure, angelic beings. This has always been around since romantic chivalry when men started projecting this Madonna image onto women, men don't want to think of the females in their lives who reared them and whom they respect in this way; the modern version of it may not look so quaint, but it is no less inaccurate.


Checking out beautiful people doesn't mean anything to either sex IMO, just like checking out an exotic car and appreciating its beauty. Sure, you *may* even for a moment picture yourself driving it, but hopefully you're satisfied enough with the one in your own driveway.

Well, I'm not happy with my literal car but one day I will be again, and it won't be an exotic. smile

Monogamy happens.

If I had experienced infidelity in my 30's (at our worse), it would have still surprised me, only because I think I would have been dumped first (that's the personality that I know). If it happened today (at our best) it would blow my freaking mind, after this much time and history, I don't give it a second thought (and really, I never did).

Me, nah...never gonna happen, nothing to gain and everything to lose. Even the music that motivates and uplifts me would destroy me. I've had my problems but I've never really been depressed, and I don't plan on starting now.

Monogamy happens, I see it all around me. Mine is just one example.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/05/16 07:29 PM

Right, I'm not saying that monogamy doesn't happen, I'm saying that males and females aren't particularly wired for it. Cultural expectations are but a blip on the radar. They change and always have changed. There are many examples of polygamy, and if someone is religious, it's in the Old Testament without any apology for it.

I brought this up in another thread, but it's strange that human females conceal their ovulation. Other primates give more apparent signals. So there's a theory that sounds kind of sinister why this is so:

For our earlier ancestors, the females can receive better genetic donors when it's that time (that's also when females seem to be more attracted to or prefer more dominant traits), then the male provider types can be lured into caring for her and her offspring in exchange for her companionship. Females are so chemically wired that their sexual response cycles are generally tied this way- when their hormones are going crazy, more masculine, dominant traits are attractive. Then when they settle down and regain their senses the rest of the month, they prefer more nurturing or feminine characteristics in males.

Posted By: oldgrognard

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/05/16 07:33 PM

Posted By: MarkG

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/05/16 08:06 PM

Bring on menopause then. smile
Posted By: LB4LB

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/05/16 08:20 PM

Originally Posted By: MarkG
Bring on menopause then. smile


Whoa, dude. Be careful there. Have you ever seen the Exorcist?
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/05/16 08:44 PM

And now for something completely different (as I wait for cabinet parts to be delivered)...

After my mother-in-law passed away, the family divided up her stuff (wasn't much) and I laid claim to her 1980 World Book Encyclopedias...



One day I'm flipping thorough the "B" book and notice there's several pages on "BALLET" and it looked as if those pages were handled allot. No mystery as to who would have done this (I guess it *could* have been her younger sister, but it wasn't) and it gave me an idea.

I searched online and found a ballet to attend, "Giselle", at the LSU Student Union Theater. Also, a very nice pre-show dinner was being offered in the Union for ticket holders. I bought tickets and booked dinner.

Man, I scored MAJOR points in a woman's heart that evening, and still much cheaper than diamond earnings. smile

++++++++++

Fast forward to a family gathering...

Wife is telling another woman all about it (you could sense the excitement building in both of them) and her husband, who was standing off to the side with beer in hand listening, walks over and smirks out a comment that his balls will never be in his wife's purse. LOL. biggrin

I'm thinking that was *me* in my 20s, at least in attitude (I wouldn't have been such a jerk off about it). Damn fool is totally ignoring a possible opportunity, I see this potentially not ending well (which would be on par today).

Point being, keep an eye out for any clues that can lead you to doing something totally unexpected.
Posted By: CyBerkut

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/05/16 10:13 PM

Originally Posted By: MarkG
Bring on menopause then. smile


You might want to research that more, before making that wish...
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/05/16 11:02 PM

Originally Posted By: LB4LB
Originally Posted By: MarkG
Bring on menopause then. smile


Whoa, dude. Be careful there. Have you ever seen the Exorcist?


Originally Posted By: CyBerkut
Originally Posted By: MarkG
Bring on menopause then. smile


You might want to research that more, before making that wish...


Wish for it or not, it's coming...soon!

Being that my wife and I are 48 (5 weeks apart) we've thoroughly, I mean THOROUGHLY researched the effects of aging and what to expect with both of us over the next decade or so. We'll deal with each crisis as it comes up, shouldn't be any surprises. I'm confident that physically and emotionally we'll be just fine. smile
Posted By: LB4LB

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/05/16 11:10 PM

It starts with hot flashes. Fights over the thermostat. Waking up in the middle of the night thinking you have a blast furnace lying next to you. It's all good if she listens to her doctor and controls things as best as possible.
Posted By: oldgrognard

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/05/16 11:13 PM

It never goes well. Never.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/06/16 04:01 AM

Originally Posted By: LB4LB
It starts with hot flashes. Fights over the thermostat. Waking up in the middle of the night thinking you have a blast furnace lying next to you. It's all good if she listens to her doctor and controls things as best as possible.


Thermostat fighting?! We've been doing that for as long as I can remember (skinny [always cold] vs. fat [always hot] climate control wars)! biggrin

We stay up-to-date on all of our medical examinations (GP/dermatologist/dentist/cardiologist/GYN) so I'm not too worried, whatever might need fixin' in the future will be. smile I'll elaborate a little in my next post.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/06/16 05:11 AM

Originally Posted By: oldgrognard
It never goes well. Never.


This may be, but my wife is one of the most driven, disciplined and undramatic persons I know. If *I* didn't provide a little drama in our lives it might even get boring! biggrin There's been meltdowns over the years, but it usually takes a whole lot of *me* to make that happen. But we've chilled so much over that past 8 years or so, I don't remember our last real argument!

Since this is also a "love and marriage" thread, yes?

Our lifestyle change (which we've yo-yo'd at times) since 2008 is permanent now, to her (especially) we have no choice but to live the rest of our lives being mindful of what and how we eat, along with getting regular exercise. Whatever *I* do, she's never going back even for a little while (allowing for the *very* rare splurge).

How do I put this...

I (we) have overwhelming motivation to continue improving our lifestyle. For her I think it's still mostly about health, including some serious nuclear cardiology tests she has coming up (every so many years). Working on body and stamina is truly a health improvement, but growing out the hair and getting a new wardrobe isn't. That's mainly to satisfy *my* more superficial improvements, and I'm working hard to reciprocate (well, it's too late to try and grow out my hair smile ).

Any possible negative effects of menopause (and we know what they are) will be corrected if and when the time comes. Same with me, if the day comes that I need to see a urologist, I won't hesitate to make that appointment. It's that important to us.

P.S. No matter how you choose to fight it, getting old(er) sucks!
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/06/16 11:01 AM

Originally Posted By: MarkG

P.S. No matter how you choose to fight it, getting old(er) sucks!


It's still much, much better than the only other option. wink
Posted By: RSColonel_131st

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/06/16 11:37 AM

It's interesting to compare Mechanus' and Mark's writings here in this thread. Both of these two share a lot about their relationship life.

Mechanus' world is conditional, transactional. I sure as hell came from there, I know it. Every single thing (and that includes humans, because in that world they are also objects) has some value attached, and is constantly being traded. That's why he is giving all that "advice" he's been dishing out, because he's trying to get a handle on how to manage his trades.

A friend of mine wrote a very good piece on this that explains it much better than I ever could:
http://markmanson.net/what-love-is

MarkG on the other hand seems to live a relationship based on valuing the other for who they are. Not based on what "value" they provide. As a result he's been happily married ever since (and I really enjoyed reading that story about the ballet tickets.)
Posted By: No105_Archie

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/06/16 01:12 PM

RSColonel: That was a very good article by your friend and it makes eminent sense to me.

In high school I was "the skinny guy with glasses who excelled at math and physics" ; but I also learned to played lead guitar in a band and had figured out the teenage female mind pretty well......so despite being skinny, myopic, and "a nerd", I was never stuck for a date or pretty much anything else I wanted.

As I got a bit older I settled down with a girl that I had met who accepted me for what I was and I accepted her. We have now been together for over 40 years and married for over 38. We have gone through good times and bad "richer and poorer..in sickness and in health" and everything the world could throw at us but are still 'best friends'.

I enjoy reading these posts as well. I fully understand the "transactional" approach to relationships because "I was there" as a young man and I know folks who are still there in their sixties. I also understand "unconditional" relationship because that is where I am now.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/06/16 02:28 PM

I was never bullied in highschool and never felt left out.

But WTF

I was totally oblivious to that. I never cared about coolness. There was a time I was invited to play with a band, ok fine whatever. Never chased anything (acceptance, trend etc), never cared about my clothes. Although one day my mother took the effort to buy me some "cool" teenage clothes. Girls at the school were surprised and said something like, "First time we see you wearing trendy clothes". Months later, I'm back to wearing the old "non-trendy" #%&*$# cause it felt more comfortable.

Couldn't relate with the article. However it did explain a lot on how the people around me in Highschool behaved. LOL. It also explained the behavior of young women I encountered in other countries.



Posted By: MarkG

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/06/16 02:35 PM

Thanks,RSColonel_131st. smile I feel like I'm still aimlessly stumbling through life most of the time, and I just get lucky sometimes. Getting older isn't SO bad I guess, with age does come wisdom and a calmer personality.

I think a part of me will forever remain stuck in HS, wanting to live like the more carefree teens I remember us being. There's so much “grown up” crap we have to deal with every day that it's nice to escape whenever possible, just have some fun and relaxation.

Yesterday afternoon my mom took an ambulance ride to the hospital with a heart concern. She first went to her local doctor and after an EKG he called for the ambulance. She's ok (nothing serious) and back home, but it's just an example of mid-life pressures and concerns (worrying about your elderly parents is a big one).

I enjoyed the article by your friend you posted. thumbsup
Posted By: Peally

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/06/16 02:38 PM

Originally Posted By: PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted By: MarkG

P.S. No matter how you choose to fight it, getting old(er) sucks!


It's still much, much better than the only other option. wink


Time machines?
Posted By: VF9_Longbow

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/06/16 02:52 PM

I am the kind of guy who has experienced both worlds.

When I lived in Canada I was the ultra-good-guy type who never won the girls. You probably know what I mean.

As I entered my mid-late twenties I became the bad boy and you know what, it is true, bad boys do get all the girls - I was with a new girl every night if I wanted to be. It wasn't just a Japan thing, girls from all over were all over me, and I was not particularly rich or good looking and I am pretty short as well at around 5' 5 or 6" tall.

It is quite clear to me now that I'm 30 that if you want a good relationship you need to have a balance of edginess and stability in your character to get with women who will stick with you in hard times but are not so dull or ugly as to be rejected into the chaff pile..! That sounds brutal but that's how life is I suppose.

In 2014 / 2015 I was impacted by several life changing, life threatening events which completely turned my world upside down. I found myself going from a fairly high income to almost nil income, but it also made me realize that if your personality has the edginess that women like, you will still attract women regardless of your own income, looks, social status etc.

I have dated more women than I should have, and these days I have decided I want to settle down a bit, but I can say with absolute certainty, your outlook on life and the confidence, edginess you project, determines how attractive you are to most women. If you are a dull, boring kind of guy, women will treat you like an ATM. Do not tell women you like computer simulators as a hobby! Tell them you like playing electric guitar, flying airplanes, gun fighting, whatever.

If you are doing risky stuff or at least appear risky, you will attract a LOT of women from all areas of life. Having an unusual hairstyle but a personality that completely contrasts with that hairstyle may drive women crazy once they get a chance to talk to you. I ended up dating a famous politician in Japan once simply because of this reason. That was a relationship doomed from the start but it was something we'll probably both treasure til our last days.


Examples of seemingly risky behavior:
Hair and clothing styles that go against the accepted rules of your profession.
Refusal to acknowledge generally accepted titles such as Dr., Mr., Mrs. etc and simply calling people by first name, and establishing personal connections extremely quickly, going into personal details, stories, etc. quickly
Going for drinks without any intention of "follow up" (if you know what I mean). Just leave 'em hanging as if it had never crossed your mind.

Things like this are pretty much guaranteed to net you a load of women... But if you want a stable relationship, once you've set the hook, you have to transition into a more stable, subtle kind of personality.


There are some people who are lucky enough to just find the right person and end up married with them, but for the rest of us, try exploring out of your bubble a bit. It took me nearly 10 years to figure women out but at least in my case, I'm quite sure I've got a clear picture these days. Give it a try. Don't think of women as obnoxious abusers of men - they're not, though some individuals might be. Just cater to the image they want and you will see, even the worst kind of gold digger will go for the old broke pool-boy or biker-guy if that's the image they're interested in. Cater to image and then adapt yourself if you want to stay together afterwards.
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/06/16 02:57 PM

Sometimes I feel like Dr. Phil would enjoy being a member of SimHQ. biggrin
Posted By: RSColonel_131st

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/06/16 03:18 PM

Longbow, good post, but two parts that don't match with my experience:

1) "Edgy" or "Risky'" are not exactly the words I would use or the image you need to transport because for me that's too much "Bad Guy" and that's a myth. Fact is that you have to have your own personality - usually a trait of guys who enjoy what they do, in such that there are things important to them in life, and they do them not to impress anyone but for the enjoyment of it.

Someone who does Triathlons or any other endurance sports for example. Someone who's really dedicated to playing an instrument. Someone who enjoys building things (woodworking etc.)

None of these things I would call particularly "edgy" but they will do just fine to make you an interesting partner. And that doesn't require that she shares that hobby.

2) Your examples are all about being a bit rebellious, being a bit too "constructed". If this is your personality, then by all means wear different clothes and hair. But not to do it to appear as something. The fact that you descripe to "transition" into a more subtle personality is already too much playing. Such thoughts shouldn't even cross your mind on a date.


**********************

And that's really the problem: Too many people are "playing the game". That basically means there is a huge filter between their emotions and their words/actions, that filter being their brain trying to manipulate conscious actions for some specific preferred outcome.

I've worked literally years at finding out who I am and being happy with who I am. As a result I can have some nights, in my favorite bar, with the right music, where I just need eye contact across the room and will get a very magnetic reaction from women. But that is not because I'm particularly "edgy" or standoutish - rather because what you have inside does indeed radiate outwards - once you get rid of that annoying filter mentioned above.

Some people (like Mechanus I assume) get really good at using that filter. And it can get you "results". But living in a constant state of subconsciously managing your thoughts, behaviour and everything else to match a certain rolemodel is very much not happiness. Once you experience a true un-filtered connection (with a partner who's also not filtering) you'll never go back to the other side.

PS: There's a huge downside to being authentically, unfiltered you, and a highly developed version of you at that. You'll only meet very few potential partners who will match what you want. But those will be the ones that make you really happy. I've had as many women as I have candles on my birthday cake. But all I want right now is that one who will stick around to old age - she's gotta be special to earn that position.

PPS: Anyone with surplus redheads, send them my way please. Dart? NavyNuke?
Posted By: Wireman

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/06/16 03:19 PM

Originally Posted By: PanzerMeyer
Sometimes I feel like Dr. Phil would enjoy being a member of SimHQ. biggrin


No he wouldn't. He doesn't need the money that bad.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/06/16 04:14 PM

If anyone is still in the dating game, it helps to understand why women have low self esteem. It doesn't seem like it, especially the really attractive ones- how can that be? They must have these amazing lives and get what they want all the time. Well, they kind of do- that's why they can have low self esteem. They don't have the challenges in life that give them a sense of self actualization by overcoming them. It all comes too easy for them- if guys are always cat calling and opening doors and getting out of the way, and helping them with their problems, liking what they like, afraid to disagree with them for fear they'll lose her, constantly turning heads and constantly orbiting around (which they definitely notice), and if they get this kind of behavior day in and day out, life is actually pretty boring for them and they don't really get a sense of self worth from this. All my female friends who post ten pictures every single day on Facebook looking for a hundred likes and getting men and women constantly telling them how beautiful they are clearly fall within this behavior.

Female agency or identity or self realization or whatever you want to call it is designed to receive. That's even how they're anatomically built- ultimately designed to receive. To receive the male so they can conceive babies (whether they actually go the route of motherhood is a different story). And it's more- to receive love, to receive attention. Women love attention, even when they say they don't (they don't necessarily want the wrong kind of attention). These selfie pics you see lately with breast feeding in public I have no doubt is more attention seeking behavior under the guise of something else. There's an article on Yahoo of this woman with huge breasts doing this, and it looks like soft porn. They're hanging out for the public to see- this is completely deliberate to get attention, and they pretend it's not of course, and if you say it is, they'll shame you for it. But it's so wired into them so as to almost be unconscious.

But it never really translates into a sense of self worth because they constantly need more. If you can achieve self actualization without needing external approval, your sense of self worth doesn't come entirely from others, your identity and agency comes from within, you're comfortable with yourself, you're ahead of the game- ahead of most men and women, especially women though.

They go through life differently than us and have a much different perspective, and we don't really see what it looks like. All we see is the surface, they look confident, they'll even act like they are, but it's mostly an act, especially this thing that girls are doing where they try to act tough, they even call themselves 'bad b1tches', that of course is all phony for typical middle class girls (some rougher neighborhoods are a different story). If they have any strength at all, it's just the collective bargaining power that women have over men, because men are often afraid to go against what women do out of fear of being publicly shamed, or they're afraid they'll never get female attention or get laid, and there's plenty of males that will back up women and help them against other males who call women out on what they're doing.



Posted By: Crane Hunter

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/06/16 04:28 PM

I've made a point of dating every kind of woman I could (within the bounds of good taste and reason), going outside my comfort zone at times.

Not just for thee lulz, but as to be able to truely say I know what I like and what I don't like in a sammich assembler.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/06/16 04:41 PM

I think that's a great idea. You get a broader, larger scope of what women are like, more exposure and more experience and so forth. Going outside your normal social circle you can experiment more, and they don't know who you are so gossip doesn't necessarily travel around your own neighborhood.

The funny thing is was how much more attention I got from the Spring Break sorority looking girls. They were never my type- but maybe because of that, my lax, more indifferent attitude to them made me more interesting to them. In the end, I knew there was no possible way I really even wanted to be friends with them. Our tastes and outlook are way too different, but again, that taught me more about how the 'law' of push and pull attraction may work like that.
Posted By: LB4LB

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/06/16 05:00 PM

Posted By: RSColonel_131st

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/06/16 05:23 PM

Mechanus, could it possibly be that high-self-esteem women are screening you out so early you don't even know they exsist?
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/06/16 06:11 PM

Of course. All kinds of women screen me out for different reasons. But you also have to pay attention to the way they behave and read between the lines. Just as men play it cool, women do this, too. A lot of males just don't see women doing this. They'll pretend not to notice you the way men pretend not to notice them in order to come off looking cool. They may drop the most subtle cue once and only once for you to pay attention, and if you don't pick up on this, they don't do it again.

Some thing you may notice are women who look like they're trying to screen everyone out- they come in a bar or something and sit there and look like they can't stand anyone coming near them with their arms folded in front of them looking defensive. To the untrained eye, this looks like they don't want anything to do with you. This is actually a bad act. It's just designed to weed out the bad prospects and the typical bad kind of attention. They didn't spend hours getting ready and getting dressed up and go out to a bar just to be alone. Of course, they don't want just anyone paying attention to them, but if a guy is reasonably cool and comfortable with himself, they'll definitely be interested in you.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/06/16 06:27 PM

Also I want to say why it's such a mind game that everyone suffers from.

Growing up, I was very shy around women, I had no experience with them and I didn't know what to make of them. So on it went like that for awhile, I gave up and thought I had nothing to offer then. I remember the first time girls did start talking to me and tell me they thought I was very mysterious, some told me they thought I was a player, I had no idea what they were talking about, I was very shy. But they assumed my aloofness was because of something else- I simply got lots and lots of girls already and wasn't 'hungry'.

Then again, many of them thought something else and thought I was creepy for being shy. Because girls correctly assume that all guys want women, so If I were to 'pretend' like I don't, they assumed what I was doing was creepy.

The lesson is everyone has different baggage going on in their heads, but true, natural self confidence around the opposite sex which doesn't come from external validation is rare, in my experience.
Posted By: RSColonel_131st

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/06/16 07:50 PM

Your interpretation of women is... weird.

Why are you so focused on those who play games?
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/06/16 07:59 PM

Well, this may sound like re-direction, but do you think they don't? If you think they don't, I'm willing to listen.

Here's what I'll say- it's all a game whether we like it or not. If you like women, you have to accept that games come with them. First take women: makeup- that's inherent deception. Why do they apply makeup, something to enhance and totally change their appearance? That's part of the mating game, the mating strategy. Women have something else going on under the hood. The time when they are most receptive, this volcanic chemical thing is going on with them which makes them more randy than men think is possible, and they have to learn to conceal that. Again, deception. I don't blame them for it, it is what it is.

It's both sexes. When they meet, the way they behave of course is their best 'game,' their best, first impression. People of course go on a first date, they put on their best show to impress, guys will act like gentlemen, and so on. This is inherently deceptive. We don't think of it this way, but it is by definition, nobody gets to see what other people are like upfront, and they're chasing a persona put on at that moment. Who is like that all the time? Who dresses to impress all the time? Nobody. Who is a gentleman all the time? Who is a lady all the time? When men and women are at home, they look and act completely different than their public persona. So it is all a game, a game of move and counter move. This is observable in other animal species as well. Mating dances and mating calls and rituals, and so on.

But convince me instead that none of this is happening, I'm open.
Posted By: CyBerkut

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/06/16 08:26 PM

Originally Posted By: RSColonel_131st
It's interesting to compare Mechanus' and Mark's writings here in this thread. Both of these two share a lot about their relationship life.

Mechanus' world is conditional, transactional. I sure as hell came from there, I know it. Every single thing (and that includes humans, because in that world they are also objects) has some value attached, and is constantly being traded. That's why he is giving all that "advice" he's been dishing out, because he's trying to get a handle on how to manage his trades.

A friend of mine wrote a very good piece on this that explains it much better than I ever could:
http://markmanson.net/what-love-is

MarkG on the other hand seems to live a relationship based on valuing the other for who they are. Not based on what "value" they provide. As a result he's been happily married ever since (and I really enjoyed reading that story about the ballet tickets.)


Mark Manson, it appears, is a pretty wise fellow. thumbsup
Posted By: CyBerkut

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/06/16 08:27 PM

Originally Posted By: PanzerMeyer
Sometimes I feel like Dr. Phil would enjoy being a member of SimHQ. biggrin


I suspect I would have a strong urge to whiz on his leg and tell him, "It's raining out!" wink
Posted By: Wireman

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/06/16 08:35 PM

Originally Posted By: CyBerkut
Originally Posted By: RSColonel_131st
It's interesting to compare Mechanus' and Mark's writings here in this thread. Both of these two share a lot about their relationship life.

Mechanus' world is conditional, transactional. I sure as hell came from there, I know it. Every single thing (and that includes humans, because in that world they are also objects) has some value attached, and is constantly being traded. That's why he is giving all that "advice" he's been dishing out, because he's trying to get a handle on how to manage his trades.

A friend of mine wrote a very good piece on this that explains it much better than I ever could:
http://markmanson.net/what-love-is

MarkG on the other hand seems to live a relationship based on valuing the other for who they are. Not based on what "value" they provide. As a result he's been happily married ever since (and I really enjoyed reading that story about the ballet tickets.)


Mark Manson, it appears, is a pretty wise fellow. thumbsup


It was a well written article but hardly earth shattering. Most folks with any form of introspection figure the game out fairly early in adulthood. That being said, I will look foward to reading some of his other stuff.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/06/16 08:42 PM

I'll add some Freudian school into the mix. Our early experiences will figure into our development certainly.

Most people are raised by women- through your mother, through female teachers, whatever, somehow women have a strong influence on the perception of males. The trouble with this is that males are configured and trained and conditioned to think of women in a way that they think of their future relationships and women generally this way. Women are the fairer, kinder, more sympathetic sex; purer, sweeter. It's no wonder where the Madonna complex comes from.

What I'll say is this is incorrect to apply this to women outside your own bloodlines in your romantic and personal relationships. This is the tendency however of men to put women on a pedestal and be self faulting for everything, and the tendency to see the kinds of things I'm saying about women as 'strange' or something, as if women aren't people but these mythological creatures: "women in fact are asexual, it's men who are the ones who want it all the time." This creates a weird mindset for men, because on the one hand they want to think of women as these heavenly angels, and on the other, there is still a biological imperative to want to mate with them. Maybe this doesn't happen with all males, but I certainly see this tendency.

If you guys want some fascinating reading, there was a fellow by the name of Briffault who wrote a very convincing argument about the nature of women, The Mothers

http://www.amazon.com/Mothers-Matriarcha...ult+the+mothers

It turns everything about the social origins of 'patriarchy' and the idea that men formed the heads of family and society around and provides convincing arguments why it's really the women who established it all in our development.
Posted By: CyBerkut

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/06/16 08:54 PM

Originally Posted By: Mechanus
Well, this may sound like re-direction, but do you think they don't? If you think they don't, I'm willing to listen.

Here's what I'll say- it's all a game whether we like it or not. If you like women, you have to accept that games come with them. First take women: makeup- that's inherent deception. Why do they apply makeup, something to enhance and totally change their appearance? That's part of the mating game, the mating strategy.


Not always. There are plenty of married women who aren't looking for action from either their husband or someone else, wearing makeup. Why? Because 1. It is a societal norm. 2. They realize there are a lot of superficial people around, and it is a way to help keep superficial people from just discounting/ignoring them.

Your posts on the subject tend to embrace sweeping generalities. Whether you realize it or not, there are people out there that do not fall into the categories you describe, at least not any more. Undoubtedly they did at some point, but it isn't necessarily a life sentence.

I don't think RSColonel_131st is saying that games/deception do not happen. I believe what he is getting at, and what I would say, is that it isn't happening with all women or men. As that article by Mark Manson describes, some people move on past that. Some others never do.

Your choices/actions may be serving as a filter that results in women who have a different goal to not be interested in you. May be. I don't know, as I'm not living your life. On the flip side, you're not living everyone else's either.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/06/16 09:03 PM

Originally Posted By: CyBerkut
[/quote]

Not always. There are plenty of married women who aren't looking for action from either their husband or someone else, wearing makeup. Why? Because 1. It is a societal norm. 2. They realize there are a lot of superficial people around, and it is a way to help keep superficial people from just discounting/ignoring them.




Just so that I understand you, you're saying that married women aren't doing this, correct? That's kind of my point all along. Once married, the mating game has ended already.

This is my point, yeah, once married, then the couples co-habitate and see each other more and more for what they really are. The makeup comes off, the couples don't try like they did during the initial courtship phase.

A female friend of mine said that she and her husband got quite sick of another, so they tried 'dating' like they did when they first met to spark that flame once again, but this is what I mean who people in the initial phases are acting much different, and this is why from my own observation is that relationships do take time to see what the other person and their habits are really like. They don't really truly know until they live together when they get comfortable enough to relax their guards and behavior starts to be more consistent. Those people who jump right into marriage or something serious like living with one another after a few weeks or months of passion are playing a very risky game. Once that initial attraction, mystery and fun wear off, then they're going to see what they're stuck with when the situation may become harder to separate without getting messy.
Posted By: CyBerkut

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/06/16 10:02 PM

Originally Posted By: Mechanus
Originally Posted By: CyBerkut


Not always. There are plenty of married women who aren't looking for action from either their husband or someone else, wearing makeup. Why? Because 1. It is a societal norm. 2. They realize there are a lot of superficial people around, and it is a way to help keep superficial people from just discounting/ignoring them.




Just so that I understand you, you're saying that married women aren't doing this, correct? That's kind of my point all along. Once married, the mating game has ended already.

This is my point, yeah, once married, then the couples co-habitate and see each other more and more for what they really are. The makeup comes off, the couples don't try like they did during the initial courtship phase.

A female friend of mine said that she and her husband got quite sick of another, so they tried 'dating' like they did when they first met to spark that flame once again, but this is what I mean who people in the initial phases are acting much different, and this is why from my own observation is that relationships do take time to see what the other person and their habits are really like. They don't really truly know until they live together when they get comfortable enough to relax their guards and behavior starts to be more consistent. Those people who jump right into marriage or something serious like living with one another after a few weeks or months of passion are playing a very risky game. Once that initial attraction, mystery and fun wear off, then they're going to see what they're stuck with when the situation may become harder to separate without getting messy. [/quote]

Let's revisit the sequence:

Originally Posted By: RSColonel_131st
Your interpretation of women is... weird.

Why are you so focused on those who play games?


Originally Posted By: Mechanus
Well, this may sound like re-direction, but do you think they don't? If you think they don't, I'm willing to listen.

Here's what I'll say- it's all a game whether we like it or not. If you like women, you have to accept that games come with them. First take women: makeup- that's inherent deception. Why do they apply makeup, something to enhance and totally change their appearance? That's part of the mating game, the mating strategy.


You continued on with more generalizations, but I didn't quote those.

I then replied with:
Originally Posted By: CyBerkut
Not always. There are plenty of married women who aren't looking for action from either their husband or someone else, wearing makeup. Why? Because 1. It is a societal norm. 2. They realize there are a lot of superficial people around, and it is a way to help keep superficial people from just discounting/ignoring them.

Your posts on the subject tend to embrace sweeping generalities. Whether you realize it or not, there are people out there that do not fall into the categories you describe, at least not any more. Undoubtedly they did at some point, but it isn't necessarily a life sentence.

I don't think RSColonel_131st is saying that games/deception do not happen. I believe what he is getting at, and what I would say, is that it isn't happening with all women or men. As that article by Mark Manson describes, some people move on past that. Some others never do.

Your choices/actions may be serving as a filter that results in women who have a different goal to not be interested in you. May be. I don't know, as I'm not living your life. On the flip side, you're not living everyone else's either.


So, to answer your question... No, that is not correct. I'm saying plenty (as in "some") married women aren't wearing makeup in some circumstances as an act of deception. It's also true of some unmarried women, BTW. Women also wear makeup for other reasons. In some sectors of the business world, for example, it is de rigueur as much as wearing proper business attire. The point being, not all women are engaging in deception. Not even all single women.

Yes, generally speaking, most people attempt to put their best side forward early on. But not all people. Some people grow past that and realize that things generally turn out better by being authentic right from the start, and they wish to have that from the people they associate with as well. I would say such people are a minority, but they are out there. They are worth finding, and their existence should not be discounted.

Of course, if all one is really interested in is adding notches to the headboard, then people who have put the games behind them are probably not good prospects.
Posted By: Crane Hunter

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/06/16 10:06 PM

I don't bar, do online dating or let anyone play matchmaker.

As far as I'm concerned, restaurants were invented so that I can encounter serving wenches who are suitable for my purposes, while enjoying a meal.

Its nice that they often provide them with name tags otherwise I tend to get their names mixed up.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/06/16 10:48 PM

It's my experience that women are going to be deceptive. Perhaps a person who doesn't see it this way doesn't agree it because he is being deceived- by definition, one is not supposed to know one is being deceived, or it's not deception. I realize that is a bit of a tautology, but I mention 'he' because it is men who are the ones typically deceived, it's not women who are deceived by women, they know and even often tell you what they really think of other women. Why do so many women even tell you how catty and how calculating women can be, while men, who aren't women, come up with some different take on them which looks much more docile? Men are typically the ones who come up with these ideas about women who are so innocent and pure.

Speaking of women in the business world, they can really get a leg up if they are attractive, wearing makeup, dressed to impressed rather than not- many men who have no problems dealing with other men can be quite taken with an attractive woman. Women might even say they prefer working with men because it means not having to put up with the behavior of women, but sometimes this also means that they know men will subconsciously give up bargaining power if they are taken with the attractiveness with the woman or can be seduced by her.

But just like there are lots of guys out there who play the game being some dumb brute so that women will like them, women have their images as well. A lot of deception however isn't necessarily the fault of women at the beginning, it's the projection that men put on them, and women feel they have to live up to that.

The exception to the rule tends to be things more like the Amish communities or things like this which try as much as possible to live more plainly, but still- even they try to repress or downplay basic urges, which is still in my view trying to create some form of reality that isn't altogether aligned with base instincts

“Deceiving others. That is what the world calls a romance.”

- Oscar Wilde
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/06/16 10:56 PM

I don't consider giving off a good first impression as being deceitful. I've had jobs where the dress code was lax, work area could be messy and you might skip shaving for a couple of days (especially during crunch time). Other places had more stringent codes.

But I always cleaned up nicely and wore a suit to an interview. smile
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/06/16 11:00 PM

People generally don't, that's my point, it's not normally thought of that way. But to use a gross analogy, if you were to look at anything else being sold to you and find it worked differently when you took it home, then you would feel 'cheated.'

This doesn't happen with relationships the same way because our feelings are involved differently than consumer goods. When feelings are involved, we're not as rational about what's going on.

This is the nature of relationships- even if they're dysfunctional, we still often prefer them rather than being alone, we still justify what happens, we still gloss over the problems or pretend they aren't there.

I don't per se blame people for this, I understand the powerful basic need for companionship. But the flip side of this is that they are always risky, ignorance may be bliss up to a point, until we're blindsided by people who are capable of abusing this sort of need.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/06/16 11:28 PM

My take on things sounds like the glass is half empty, I admit that it sounds dark, I can't reverse this thinking anymore. It's like once I saw the Wizard of Oz behind the curtain, it's too late for me.

Men and women read their 'targets', that is, the people who they are interested in, and will to some extent tailor their behavior for that person. Women are awesome at it, but they don't really have to be, because if a male is attracted to begin with, it doesn't take much more effort from the woman to hook him.

You may think of men doing this, but I noticed women giving me presents that might align with my interests, and I would ask, "how did you know?" And they wouldn't actually let me in on the secret, instead wanting me to believe there was some chemistry between us that was readily apparent. Well, it was apparent that they had been studying me already, studying my friends and relationships with others and already figuring out how they were going to get 'in'. You can look at this as sweet, romantic gestures on the one hand, another way of looking at this might actually be that attraction, the mating game, life itself as fundamentally dark like that. I just realize this happened the other day. A girl I know was talking to me and practically repeating the same things I said to someone else as if to establish a rapport.

"Mirroring" others is what subconsciously happens when people are attracted, they mirror each other's speech, gestures, body language, there's also ways of deliberately and consciously doing this (You like baseball? I like baseball too) to influence people's attraction levels.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/06/16 11:32 PM

I kinda like it when my wife gets a little dolled up for the evening (especially for "date night").

In addition to light makeup and lipstick (or whatever), I like the stuff they do to their eyes (dark borders and color on the lids, also the eyelash stuff). All subtle and none of this press-on or fake stuff, mainly just adding a little color (just my preferences, no offense to others).

On these evenings, in addition to shaving and trimming up the goat I trim my nose hairs, pluck any hairs growing off my old man ears, trim my eyebrows, etc. I also trim any other body hair that's become unruly.

Now she wants me to start dressing nicer more often (she's had enough of the same old light blue long sleeve dress shirts and faded jeans), it's fair play I guess. Hey, I'm cool with that, let's go shopping. smile

And when I finally get that illusive 32" waist she wants me to buy my first tuxedo! Ooooh...James Bond with a bald head and glasses! biggrin And driving a 2008 Honda Element! frown I think I'm going to go shake me a vodka martini.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/06/16 11:36 PM

Right, I'm not saying we shouldn't like it, I'm saying that notice when that stuff tends to stop happening after we're involved long enough, that's when people stop putting forth that effort.

That's why I'm sure most or all of you will say that relationships are hard work. I just want them to be breezy and fun. I actually am astonished by the stamina ya'll seem to have to be in them for the long haul like that.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/06/16 11:53 PM

By the way, a lot of the women I know who are still single in their thirties and forties are suddenly getting very into sports when they had no interest in them before. I think this is mostly another fabricated interest hoping that men will take notice, and I think this interest will likely not exist once in a relationship.

Thirty or forty years ago, I don't remember anywhere near the amount of female sports fans as I see around lately, and I think this has something to do with dating strategies. Certainly the old sitcoms where the stereotypical man and women who don't share the same interests, that is, the oafish men sit around watching sports and won't take their wives out anymore is being challenged. And I think that a lot of these women don't actually like sports as much as they claim to be doing as of late. You may think differently, but I see too many women who either jumped on the bandwagon only when these teams suddenly became very good and were winning a lot when they had not before, or they openly used to complain about sports but stopped doing that once they're starting to hit that wall in dating and are finding a smaller available pool of men, so, naturally, going into male spaces opens up more opportunity. You don't tend to see that behavior with men- you don't tend to see as many males invading 'female spaces', and if they are doing that, women often are suspect with their motivations, and probably with good reasons.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/07/16 12:33 AM

Originally Posted By: Mechanus
Right, I'm not saying we shouldn't like it, I'm saying that notice when that stuff tends to stop happening after we're involved long enough, that's when people stop putting forth that effort.

That's why I'm sure most or all of you will say that relationships are hard work. I just want them to be breezy and fun. I actually am astonished by the stamina ya'll seem to have to be in them for the long haul like that.


One thing you and I probably have in common Mechanus, we're not cut out to be fathers. smile

EDIT: That would be some seriously messed up kids!
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/07/16 12:38 AM

You never wanted to or you don't think you'd be good at it? I'm not meant for reproduction, it needs to end with me.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/07/16 01:17 AM

Originally Posted By: Mechanus
You never wanted to or you don't think you'd be good at it? I'm not meant for reproduction, it needs to end with me.


That's affirmative on everything (four answers). Gotta run, I'll return to this later.
Posted By: Mad Max

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/07/16 09:36 AM

dizzy
Posted By: RSColonel_131st

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/07/16 10:20 AM

Re "Playing Games"

There are single women (and men) - fewer of them than the other kind, but they exist - who don't.

My best friend is one of those women.
The girl I'm currently dating is one too.
I'm one of those guys.
Mark (the one from the article) is one of those guys.

If these girls put on the Hot Stuff, then it's because *THEY* like to see themselves like that. If *I* work out my body then it's because I like to see myself like that. If I behave in a certain way during a flirt then it's because *I'M* like that.

It's not surprising but a little bit sad that this even needs to be highlighted today: You date by being who you are, to meet the people who are your match. Everything else is Bull$hit.

If you pretend to be the girl who likes fancy dress and sexy makeup but drop it six months into a relationship, how can you expect him to stick around?
If you pretend to be the guy who likes coming up with small surprises but stop doing it after a year, how can you expect her to stick around?

Seriously, I don't often preach: But here I say - if you don't get this, you'll have crappy relationships for a very long time.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/07/16 02:54 PM

Originally Posted By: MarkG
Originally Posted By: Mechanus
You never wanted to or you don't think you'd be good at it? I'm not meant for reproduction, it needs to end with me.


That's affirmative on everything (four answers). Gotta run, I'll return to this later.


To elaborate a little on not wanting children...

Wife had a plan to excel in school, attend college on scholarships, get a good paying job and take care of her mother (long since widowed) and herself.

I also had a plan, never to be married with children. I saw enough of this circus when I lived at home, no thanks.

Our plans coincided, at least at first.

++++++++++

After lots of small talk and walking her to class, I wrote her a heartfelt letter how I wanted us to be closer. I was politely rejected (still have the letters smile ), not because she didn't like me but because she felt a social life outside of work and school would only be a distraction. She thought it unwise, unfair even, to get involved with someone while having so little time to give. Her solution was to write me off (literally).

After getting past her cute little Chic jeans, denim skirts and hair ribbons, I had fallen in love with the person that she was. I moved slowly and proved to her that we could still date and I wasn't going to derail her plans. Always the perfect gentleman and I never complained about the time she couldn't give to me (at least until we married, when I did an about face).

Her initially putting marriage and children on the back-burner was a big plus to me, I knew I wouldn't have to deal with it for a long time. Except I changed my mind about marriage, and after cleaning up my act and ceasing the double life, so did she.

I never changed my mind about not having children though, and by our late 20's/early 30's (most opportune time for us) I think she had all but written off the idea as well. Our marriage wasn't healthy (wasn't *all* my fault, despite my family's opinion), her mom needed ever more attention and things would only worsen. She needed to get off the pill after so many years and had the Essure procedure, while our overall health continued to decline.

Then we hit 40 and turned our health around, our marriage followed.

Looking back I have plenty of regrets and guilt (mainly for becoming my father, acting one way to score a good wife, and then changing), I try not to dwell on it so much and enjoy what we have today.

My older brother and sister have more traditional families, the former a daughter, the latter two daughters and a son. We always seem to have parents with us. smile
Posted By: Harry-the-Ruskie

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/07/16 03:59 PM

Originally Posted By: CyBerkut


Not always. There are plenty of married women who aren't looking for action from either their husband or someone else, wearing makeup. Why? Because 1. It is a societal norm. 2. They realize there are a lot of superficial people around, and it is a way to help keep superficial people from just discounting/ignoring them.

Your posts on the subject tend to embrace sweeping generalities. Whether you realize it or not, there are people out there that do not fall into the categories you describe, at least not any more. Undoubtedly they did at some point, but it isn't necessarily a life sentence.

I don't think RSColonel_131st is saying that games/deception do not happen. I believe what he is getting at, and what I would say, is that it isn't happening with all women or men. As that article by Mark Manson describes, some people move on past that. Some others never do.

Your choices/actions may be serving as a filter that results in women who have a different goal to not be interested in you. May be. I don't know, as I'm not living your life. On the flip side, you're not living everyone else's either.


Give it up bud. He's too stoned with his hubris to know what the hell you are saying.

As Harry Callahan said :-

Posted By: CyBerkut

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/07/16 04:12 PM

Originally Posted By: RSColonel_131st
Re "Playing Games"

There are single women (and men) - fewer of them than the other kind, but they exist - who don't.

My best friend is one of those women.
The girl I'm currently dating is one too.
I'm one of those guys.
Mark (the one from the article) is one of those guys.

If these girls put on the Hot Stuff, then it's because *THEY* like to see themselves like that. If *I* work out my body then it's because I like to see myself like that. If I behave in a certain way during a flirt then it's because *I'M* like that.


Oh now... perhaps you're just being deceived and don't realize it (including deceiving yourself, I suppose)... or something. rolleyes

Originally Posted By: RSColonel_131st

It's not surprising but a little bit sad that this even needs to be highlighted today: You date by being who you are, to meet the people who are your match. Everything else is Bull$hit.


Ayup. Some folks are not looking for a 'match' though. Their goal is more along the lines of hooking up. As Mark put it, they are engaging in conditional relationships.

Originally Posted By: RSColonel_131st

If you pretend to be the girl who likes fancy dress and sexy makeup but drop it six months into a relationship, how can you expect him to stick around?
If you pretend to be the guy who likes coming up with small surprises but stop doing it after a year, how can you expect her to stick around?

Seriously, I don't often preach: But here I say - if you don't get this, you'll have crappy relationships for a very long time.


True. As they say, however, "Common sense, isn't." Some folks get it though.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/08/16 06:08 AM

It's a shame that you can't know at 20 what you know at 50!

I'm just lucky to still have my soulmate. She would have been the ex that at some point in my life would have probably come back to haunt me. This kinda thing happens, so I hear.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/13/16 02:59 PM

/deleted

nvm at this point in life, I shouldn't be asking about anyone else's opinion these matters. Probably need to craft a default cruel message to make sure some women never, ever message me again. It worked one time, should be good enough for the rest.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/13/16 03:41 PM

I for one am disappointed. I saw there was a long post (I enjoy reading as much as writing), posted in another thread, came back to read it and it's gone. smile
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/15/16 09:03 AM

Sorry about that. But don't worry, looking back, it wasn't worth talking about. Nor wasn't even worth mentioning. Probably wasn't even worth thinking about on my part. smile I just decided that my sop for these things should be: move to trash, empty trash, move on with life and don't even try to remember their names (scratch that, names are plastered over from profile pictures to the email display name...). Then block (number or email or user) after that.

Kinda annoyed at myself that I felt something about it.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/15/16 06:51 PM

Women are not as vulnerable and helpless as they can lead men to believe. They're capable of putting on a tremendous show in order to get men to do what they want. Act weak, cry, pout, they know that by doing this men will react. Again I say it- women can cope and get over relationships far better than men generally do- with the exception of men who usually have tons of girls chasing them, the average guy is much more emotionally invested in relationships than the average girl.

Of course, the less attractive the woman is, the less likely it works this way for her.

The only way to appreciate what life looks like for an attractive girl is to understand life from the point of view of a celebrity- even a non-celebrity female can have a celebrity-like life if she's attractive enough and knows how to use it. Men go out of their way for them, they notice men checking them out and paying compliments all the time, other women hang around them in order to get benefits that drain off and so on.

Women often know they can get men to help them with their problems, or say to do more favors for them for next to nothing done in return- "Thank you ma'am, may I have another." For instance, it's much more likely a male will spend the time and energy to help a cute female to pack and move rather than the other way around. Females don't have the same sense of duty or obligation- those are male concepts that males want to project onto females. With male-male relationships, males tend to have an understanding that a favor done is reciprocated in the future. With male-female relationships, it often does not work that way.

Yes, all relationships are transactional, but male-female relationships in a first world modern society tends to be more skewed in favor of women.

It's difficult to convince men to see it this way, because they often don't want to believe it. They are mesmerized by what they see in front of them- appearances. Because they are so visual, they are so smitten with the appearance of women that they can lose their heads. They don't think as objectively and rationally with women they are attracted to in the same way as they do other males or with females they don't like as much. So women know how to take advantage of that. They are certainly not dumb.

This is the last I'll say of it, but really look at the way boys and girls develop- it's much different. The games that boys learn to play have set objectives and award points and things like this. The games that girls play with one another look much different- objectives to winning aren't measured in points and tallies like that, say in playing house or other kinds of social games like truth or dare, it's much more open ended and about social dominance and continuously trying to outdo one another in social skills (which they can apply later in their adult relationships). Females I believe by nature are quite competitive with one another and are much more status obsessed than males are (that's why they are attracted to things like status much more than men are- men generally aren't turned on more by a woman's status, if she's cute and projects vulnerability, that is enough to put the male mind in a tailspin).

So that's how Nature works it and puts one over on us. That's the grand scheme of things. I understand perfectly well that lots of men don't want to see this, it either ruins the fantasy or it's dark and lonely to contemplate to think of ourselves being used in this manner for no purpose other than to help the species procreate, with little regard for our own feelings and such.


Good luck-

Posted By: RSColonel_131st

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/15/16 08:20 PM

You are such a negative person that whoever you end up with will hopefully deserve you...
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/15/16 08:33 PM

I don't see it as negative. It's quite liberating and here's why:

You have so much more to gain once you realize what's happening and accept what it is. Then you realize the position you come from is better than women. Once you free yourself from delusions about women, you have inherent strength over them.

You can love or understand women- you probably can't do both.

Depending how you see it, this is the the weird irony- by acknowledging what's going on, you're no longer under any spell that they can cast over you. You talk with them and act with them any way you want. They respect that- and watch how they are more attracted to you and start chasing you. But you have to obliterate your former feelings and suppositions to get to that point.

You also open up more possibilities in your life, being single means you can come and go as you please, you're free to pursue your dreams independent of women, and again, women will try and chase you and catch up with you. Because that represents the guy who is on the go, on the move, doing things, that's a catch. A guy who is waiting around for women to accept him is not. That is how Nature has played it out. I keep saying this.



Posted By: RSColonel_131st

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/16/16 02:42 AM

*Yawn*
Posted By: CG2015

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/16/16 02:58 AM

Never argue with a woman even if you are right because you can't win.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/16/16 06:51 PM

In 'normal' kinds of arguments, the male typically looks at it differently- as if to identify and solve the problem. Troubleshooting a problem is usually not what women want to hear, and that's a fundamental disconnect between the sexes. They just want to talk through it until their emotions settle down, they don't approach it logically like that. You're just there to be an emotional dart board for them to throw at. This is also how guys often get friend zoned once they start doing this with women they're interested in but not yet in a relationship with. What the guys are doing wrong is acting like the boyfriend without yet being the boyfriend, and women instinctively just start taking advantage of that. The guy gets added to the male emotional support group with the other guys who fall into that well.

Men and women I think are never really quite happy with the situation. They've tried it every which way for thousands of years, and there has still been no solution to make them both happy.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/16/16 08:24 PM

And I've known women to do this and admit doing this- they will start fights just to see if they can get a rise out of you. It injects drama, and it's part of the constant testing of the men that they're with. They want to see what the reaction looks like to continuous prodding and pushing. That is the purpose that nagging serves- it's a test of the male to see what pushes his buttons, how he stands up for himself against women. Because that is an indication of what sets him off and how he might stand up to other problems.
Posted By: RSColonel_131st

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/16/16 08:48 PM

The problem with your advice is that you quite obviously live in an emotional dark and bad place, and you're trying to teach everyone else how to also survive in that place. Quite possible using the occasion to reinforce in yourself the feeling that you aren't totally lost (i.e. as long as you can give advice you feel you aren't helpless, you feel you've got a handle on the situation).

Now, the truly wise man would rather go to a bright and loftly area and enjoy the view there. Instead you insist on trying to drag everyone into your cave.

I do get why you do it, but it's really rather dangerous and unhealthy. However, now that it's all contained here in this thread it will eventually die anyway.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/16/16 10:37 PM

Well, you're incorrect. You seem to follow everything I say though. You don't have to.
Posted By: RSColonel_131st

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/16/16 11:00 PM

I'm not incorrect; I've had plenty of experience with people who sound/act/behave just like you, and I was one of those myself. Takes one (former) "pickup artist" headcase to know one, eh?

I put that warning here mostly not for your benefit, but for those of other, maybe younger members who may be tempted to take clever and scientific sounding advice from someone without understanding where that someone comes from. Gonna put you on ignore now (again) since I said my piece. If you insist on spreading your almost infectious negative worldview about man/female energy around I obviously can't stop you, but I can make sure people take what you say with a grain of salt by providing the necessary counterpoints.
Posted By: oldgrognard

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/16/16 11:25 PM

That's a good assessment.
Posted By: Nixer

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/16/16 11:58 PM

Been avoiding this like the plague, had to peek when I saw OG responding.

Congrats to Cybercut for creating this thread....kind of like a nice circular file. thumbsup

It's all PsychoBabble to me.



biggrin

edit: DOH, realized it was Cy that created this wonderful dumping ground.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/17/16 12:02 AM

Originally Posted By: RSColonel_131st
I'm not incorrect; I've had plenty of experience with people who sound/act/behave just like you, and I was one of those myself. Takes one (former) "pickup artist" headcase to know one, eh?

I put that warning here mostly not for your benefit, but for those of other, maybe younger members who may be tempted to take clever and scientific sounding advice from someone without understanding where that someone comes from. Gonna put you on ignore now (again) since I said my piece. If you insist on spreading your almost infectious negative worldview about man/female energy around I obviously can't stop you, but I can make sure people take what you say with a grain of salt by providing the necessary counterpoints.


See, I'm not a pickup artist. And I am talking about relationships here, because I've been there, too. You seem to think a lot of the things I say is strange, so I don't think the things I say would be news to a pickup artist if that's what you say you were.

Relationships and attraction and have been studied virtually to a science. Seriously, there is nothing I am saying that psychologists and researchers, ordinary men and women themselves don't say. I just aggregate all these things with my own experiences, which has had its own ups and downs.
Posted By: TerribleTwo

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/17/16 12:20 AM

DevilM alias Kontackt5 alias Mechanus, has been ofering relationship advice for so long now, yet still seems to have trouble finding a good woman to be with.

If someone is truly interested in finding a lifelong partner, then you listen to the folks who have been in a happy lifelong relationship such as myself and others.

Besides I wouldn't trust someone who has to keep changing his identity when he becomes unhappy with his posting history.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/17/16 12:27 AM

I don't think anyone thinks relationships end up like the movies. If that's what it's like, that's news to me, and I don't think anyone really feels that what's they are. I don't know anyone who feels that way. So, all I'm doing is empathizing and talking about what people don't usually talk about. I was disappointed, I thought they were supposed to be like what everyone else was saying. And then I figured out that wasn't true at all. What's also true is how often people want to keep this very important component swept under the rug. If everyone does this, then I think the problems keep repeating themselves since people kind of experience them and don't share what's going on, thinking that these things only happen to them.

But anyway, I will quit, so I'm sorry if that wasn't what people wanted to talk about.
Posted By: TerribleTwo

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/17/16 12:38 AM

The problem is that women aren't objects to be deciphered or unlocked, or decoded, they are humans with different parts. They want everything any other human wants, another person to share their life with. If your potential partner doesn't want that and you do, then that partner is not for you and not worth your time. It isn't a game.. If you think it is, then you're wrong.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/17/16 01:27 AM

My posts may seem negative but I just want to point out that the negativity is coming from a different angle. While most of the discussion is focused on women, my motivations are a bit different.

I'm ignoring job opportunities from all over the world especially the U.K.
I'm ignoring corporate jobs.
Ignoring women messaging me should be trivial but somehow it annoyed me.

I'm sure the women messaging me could be a good partner for someone else but I can predict that replying with that message will complicate the conversation (either ignore or send a tremendously offensive message that you can expect no reply). The only force behind my actions above is I don't have the patience anymore.

I no longer have the patience to tolerate moving into other places and adapt. No money in the world will make me take a job anywhere else besides my own country. No patience to tolerate any corporate BS either.

Most of all, I no longer have the patience to tolerate a relationship with a woman.

This is a personal choice that I won't recommend to other people who value what humanity has to offer. Go out, find a woman, get a good paying job and enjoy life.

I'm just looking for something else and the very bad thing about what I'm looking for is that no amount of money in the world, no woman, no material thing in the world can help with what I'm searching for. Even now, I'm thinking that not even God (should it exist) can grant it.

TL;DR
My posts should not be related to the current agenda here in any way. Any way that it may be related is pure coincidence (freakin sound like a movie disclaimer).
Posted By: Wireman

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/17/16 01:30 AM

This is getting dark.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/17/16 02:15 AM

Originally Posted By: TerribleTwo
The problem is that women aren't objects to be deciphered or unlocked, or decoded, they are humans with different parts. They want everything any other human wants, another person to share their life with. If your potential partner doesn't want that and you do, then that partner is not for you and not worth your time. It isn't a game.. If you think it is, then you're wrong.




I think this is what men get wrong. Women study men. Of course they do. It benefits them to do so, or else they could end up in dangerous or abusive relationship. They study the body language of men, the way they carry themselves, their interactions with women and other men, this what evolution has probably done to make women much better at this than men.

I've said it before- all the bathroom talk and gossip and the games they play are well beyond what men are usually prepared for. If men have the attitude that the game of love is a spontaneous magical thing like the movies, like the Hallmark commercials, I would say it looks much differently, in particular from the point of view of women.

It's men that tend to have more of these romantic notions that women aren't as inherently equipped for. With them they assess the guy's potential worth and talk with their friends, exchange information, it floats around. Those games that they play when they're young serve a purpose, that's what it's preparing them for in the future, and what men are so ill prepared for- except ironically the much derided 'pickup artists' who actually do see through all that and tend to keep their emotions at a distance. Most of those guys started out like a lot of other guys, eventually becoming jaded because they saw what the differences between the sexes and what women really were like without the illusions that society tend to promote, it's nothing like the social programming that men have been given.
Posted By: LB4LB

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/17/16 02:30 AM

Mechanus, just curious, how old are you? Maybe you are still around younger, immature women. No offense but you are over thinking things way too much. Dude, the vast majority of women are just stumbling thru life just like the vast majority of men. It's all about luck. Find a good women, don't screw it up, treat her right, and if you are lucky you will lead a happy life. That's it. That all it is.
Posted By: Wireman

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/17/16 02:37 AM

Originally Posted By: LB4LB
Mechanus,...Dude, the vast majority of women are just stumbling thru life just like the vast majority of men. It's all about luck. Find a good women, don't screw it up, treat her right, and if you are lucky you will lead a happy life. That's it. That all it is.


There it is...
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/17/16 02:44 AM

Originally Posted By: LB4LB
Mechanus, just curious, how old are you? Maybe you are still around younger, immature women. No offense but you are over thinking things way too much. Dude, the vast majority of women are just stumbling thru life just like the vast majority of men. It's all about luck. Find a good women, don't screw it up, treat her right, and if you are lucky you will lead a happy life. That's it. That all it is.


They stumble through life, but I will disagree on this point- they are much more calculating and rational than men seem to realize or give them credit for. In evolutionary terms, males have the physical strength, they probably developed the 'social intelligence' as a response that they can really outhink and outsmart men. They can develop practically a sixth sense for sense for guys that can come off too needy or too anxious to get to them to bed or get them into a relationship as well as all kinds of other things. Nagging is practically a calculated woman's skill to tear down a guy little by little over time in order to break him in the way she wants, men don't nearly do that to that degree.

It's where we'll never agree. If you're on one side of the line, you think it's a level playing field. If you're on the other, you won't view it this way at all, you will tend to think like a woman once you understand women, and from that point on there's turning back except if you get lonely, then you revert back. But as they say, we'll agree to disagree here.
Posted By: LB4LB

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/17/16 02:57 AM

Well, I guess all I can say is if you find a girl who will get you a fresh beer while you are tracking bandits in LOMAC so you don't have to hit the pause button, she's a keeper. I'll leave it at that.
Posted By: TerribleTwo

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/17/16 02:31 PM

Originally Posted By: Mechanus
Originally Posted By: TerribleTwo
The problem is that women aren't objects to be deciphered or unlocked, or decoded, they are humans with different parts. They want everything any other human wants, another person to share their life with. If your potential partner doesn't want that and you do, then that partner is not for you and not worth your time. It isn't a game.. If you think it is, then you're wrong.




I think this is what men get wrong. Women study men. Of course they do. It benefits them to do so, or else they could end up in dangerous or abusive relationship. They study the body language of men, the way they carry themselves, their interactions with women and other men, this what evolution has probably done to make women much better at this than men.

I've said it before- all the bathroom talk and gossip and the games they play are well beyond what men are usually prepared for. If men have the attitude that the game of love is a spontaneous magical thing like the movies, like the Hallmark commercials, I would say it looks much differently, in particular from the point of view of women.

It's men that tend to have more of these romantic notions that women aren't as inherently equipped for. With them they assess the guy's potential worth and talk with their friends, exchange information, it floats around. Those games that they play when they're young serve a purpose, that's what it's preparing them for in the future, and what men are so ill prepared for- except ironically the much derided 'pickup artists' who actually do see through all that and tend to keep their emotions at a distance. Most of those guys started out like a lot of other guys, eventually becoming jaded because they saw what the differences between the sexes and what women really were like without the illusions that society tend to promote, it's nothing like the social programming that men have been given.


The "movies" by which you keep referring to seems to be the viewpoint YOU have. That women are calculating creatures, studying and documenting every fine detail of a potential partner. That's what we see in movies, etcc... where a woman has to be "figured out" by a cool, cunning man... This is wrong my friend. Put away your copy of "the Scent Of A Woman" and start over.

Humans want to be around someone who is real, acts normal, genuine. Men want friends like that and women want mates like that. If you go around trying to play a part and be something you aren't you'll be a sad little man. Get the game out of your head and just be normal, stop the fake stuff. Men and women alike can spot a false persona equally. I hate guy friends who aren't real, and women do to.
Posted By: oldgrognard

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/17/16 03:23 PM

Yep.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/17/16 04:07 PM

I guess it's whatever makes you happy?

Maybe Mechanus is happy playing cat-and-mouse relationship games. I wouldn't be, I need some stability.

My sister and her husband find happiness having a house full of grandchildren. The messes and fingerprints would drive me insane!

Others I know find happiness in religion, also not for me.

I believe my wife finds happiness (or at least contentment) hanging with the elderly. I watch how she interacts with old folks (incl. population in nursing homes) and how they respond to her. And that's after realizing she could never cut it as a teacher (a class she took her senior year of HS, "Novice Teaching" to 1st graders, made an A but it was not for her).

So...whatever makes you happy.


Although I sometimes wonder who Mechanus' target audience is, most SimHQ'ers already have steady relationships, yes?
Posted By: Crane Hunter

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/17/16 04:19 PM

Just got dumped via text, in part I guess because I spent too much time with a woman named Nora from Boston a few months ago.
Posted By: VF9_Longbow

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/17/16 06:51 PM

Sorry to hear that Crane, text dumping sucks.
Posted By: Crane Hunter

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/17/16 07:04 PM

Thanks.

I'm moving away in a few weeks and that would have almost certainly been a deal killer anyway but it would have been nice to end my longest ever continuous relationship on a better note.
Posted By: RSColonel_131st

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/17/16 07:46 PM

Commiserations Crane. It's little consolidation but you don't really want to be with someone who doesn't have the character to end something face to face.

TT, excellent post up there.
Posted By: Mad Max

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/18/16 01:01 AM

Better that than finding your wife of 18 years was a cheater, which was my experience with my first wife.

Everyone is different.
Posted By: Robbster

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/18/16 08:56 PM

My girlfriend say’s that I’m afraid of commitment...well she’s not my girlfriend… more a Wife. winkngrin
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/18/16 11:45 PM

Girlfriend...wife?

This is probably going to sound terrible if taken the wrong way, but here goes...

I don't think of my wife anymore as much a wife as I do a girlfriend. Our relationship is the only one we've known and we're happy to keep it this way, so it isn't about now (decades later) wanting a non-monogamous relationship. It's just that I never again want to feel that by getting married I've crossed some finish line and now it's ok to relax and get comfortable (to completely "settle down", I guess). I want to keep training for something I may never reach the end of, or maybe if I reach really old age I can feel like I've finished this race.

It's not that I have anything against the legal contract of marriage, or vows taken (which may have helped save my marriage at times). For the most part though, none of that matters to me (especially today), I'm who I want to be with regardless of signatures on paperwork and promises spoken to a judge (civilian wedding).

I can't speak for my wife and I don't know if she feels the same way (she probably has a more romantic view of marriage), but she seems to very much like my personality and attitude lately, the wooing and dating and constantly working to keep the flame burning (e.g. laying out a blanket in the backyard under the stars to sneak away from my parents for a little while - another nostalgic trip).

She's told me she'd marry me all over again, but not at 20 and some things would need to be different. But like myself, she wouldn't change the past if it meant possibly leading to a much different present (watching too much Back to the Future maybe? smile ).

I know my views of marriage and never really settling down aren't natural and wouldn't be beneficial for society at large, it's just who I am. My wife grew up without a father and male figurehead (it was never in her older brother who has his own issues) so I figure she's at least a little damaged as well, maybe a reason we connected and kept it going for so long.

I've been told I'll never experience the greatest joys of life, to hold my newborn and to refer to my wife as "the mother of my children". That very well could be, but I'm happy enough with how it's turning out.
Posted By: TerribleTwo

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/19/16 12:15 PM

Whatever works Mark.

One thing you have with your wife is an ever multiplying number of unique experiences, and as time goes on, becomes stronger. It's the one thing a girlfriend will never give you, a lifetime of memories unique only to you and your wife. This is the value of marriage. Humans place a high value on uniqueness, whether it be your grandfather's watch, or your mother's wedding ring, we hold these one of a kind things dear to our hearts, it is the only thing that separates it from any other old watch or ring.

Marriage is similar. You can have a sexual escapade with anyone, you can plow through 7 girls in 7 days, you can date 12 girls in 12 months, but you can only have a lifelong relationship with one other person, and with that a unique set of shard moments and experiences.

Intimacy is further strengthened by this uniqueness. It is a very strong bond. Just like your grandfather watch.

So one has to wonder why anyone would walk away from this. I have my own ideas, but not the least of these is the fact that life has a lot of stress, even more when you add kids. When we stop making meaningful memories with our partner, that bond weakens. That's why marriage is work. You have to continue to work to love the one you fell in love with. But like all trials, when you come through a victor, the reward is powerful and fulfilling.
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/19/16 12:51 PM

Originally Posted By: MarkG

most SimHQ'ers already have steady relationships, yes?
That would be my guess as well since I would estimate that the average age of the active SimHQ member is probably around 40 or so.
Posted By: Crane Hunter

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/19/16 01:50 PM

Originally Posted By: Mad Max
Better that than finding your wife of 18 years was a cheater, which was my experience with my first wife.

Everyone is different.


Yeah, that would suck.

Personally I'm not saddened by the breakup itself but by the fact that she was my oldest friend and it would have been better to end things on better terms.

Ah well, NEXT!
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 04/19/16 01:52 PM

Originally Posted By: Crane Hunter

Personally I'm not saddened by the breakup itself but by the fact that she was my oldest friend and it would have been better to end things on better terms.

Ah well, NEXT!



If she really did dump you because she felt that you shouldn't be playing PC games then she wasn't worth it IMHO.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/15/16 04:06 PM

Coming back to this thread...

Friday night (a little after midnight) my wife and I are walking hand-in-hand across the LSU campus back to the car after a concert, and she starts up a conversation we've had before, but not really at length. To summarize, she loves all the attention and affection I'm giving her these days (started in 2008 but really for the past three years after her mom died), but is concerned I'm being a wee bit obsessive about it. She knows that while she's at work, I'm working on the house with my father, while keeping an eye on my mother (who can still cook and do little things, but you have to occasionally be observant of what she's doing [like leaving a stove burner on]).

What has her concerned I think, is my disinterest in hitting the books (math, programming, etc.) and working on my game (F-19 redo) lately. She's noticed a change, that I'm not as passionate about the things I once was, that I don't spend time anymore alone in my man cave office, getting excited over some new discovery or getting something to work (usually a piece of code or 3D modeling I'm having trouble with). She thinks that with all the romance and dating (I usually only post about the music related stuff here), along with the workouts and evening outdoor activities (walking/running) that I'm losing focus on my own individual interests and dreams.

I don't know if she's saying in a subtle way that I'm beginning to smother her (I don't think so as this has never a problem in the past), or that she's afraid I'll (or we'll) begin to burn out on the current intensity of our relationship. Or maybe she thinks I'm not being my own person enough anymore, because to me it has become all about "us" lately.

I know I don't always get it.. confused

Anyway, she loves that I've killed television (a waster of time that we don't have right now) and that I do all this date night/weekend planning and want to spend so much time with her (even in non-romantic settings...which can change on a dime if the situation allows), I think she just feels that I'm going a little overboard with it, that I'm losing focus on just being me.

In past years this conversation would have probably turned into a HUGE argument, I would have taken a hit in pride and ego and said, "I can ignore you or I can dote on you, nothing seems to make you happy!" Instead, I considered the words of someone I deeply love and trust has my (and our) best interests at heart, and started thinking of ways I can make changes for the better (which might include spending less time posting about it on SimHQ. smile ).

And then I pulled her into the shadows of an alley and kissed her the way she likes to be kissed (and I didn't sense any protesting about it). biggrin

++++++++++

This is sorta related to a discussion we had here on having friends outside of marriage. My wife has occasional dinner (once a month or so) and sometimes even spends a Saturday with an old HS friend, I just don't have the need. In my 20's it was good to hang out with the guys, approaching 50 I'd rather spend the evening alone with the dogs until she gets home, probably a good time to get back working on my studies and my game. In fact, she's having dinner Thursday night with her best friend from HS. I'm glad she gets a girls night out, and that she's always been very good about checking in on arriving and leaving her destination to let me know she's safe.
Posted By: RSColonel_131st

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/15/16 04:52 PM

Hmm, interesting feedback, and be glad she's able to give it so concretley.

I'd maybe mark a day or two a week where you spend the evening doing your own stuff.

Long version, something I've come up with a few weeks ago and is worth sharing. A model on dating and relationships that really works, and which fits well here:

Imagine you live in a city where your house gets randomly teleported every night to a different place (as long as you want it, you can chancel the teleportation any time with a phone call to the city council). So, usually every morning you wake up with a new person living in the new house just opposite from you.

Your job is to keep your house neat on the outside, to have it painted nicely, nice windows and doors. And also to have a lot of nicely detailed rooms inside... living room, kitchen everyone has, but also a room for your gym/sports, one room for your computer games, one full of music instruments (if you play some)... whatever interests you have

You'll eventually invite that girl who lives opposite for a coffee, showing her your living room, maybe your kitchen. If she's cool she'll likely invite you for coffee also. She will have different rooms from yours, but also interesting things there.

Next time she comes over (if you both agree to not get teleported for the time being and so keep living across each other) you might show her some more of your house. And you'll get invited for dinner and to see some more of her rooms. Some of the things you see there, you'll like a lot (like that bookshelf full of great inspirational stories she has). Some maybe less. You'll two will find out quickly if you are happy in any room of your and her house, or if there are some rooms that you keep for yourself. Overall if things work there will be lots of spaces where you can hang and very few where you can't hang together. And you'll spend equal time on both sides, alternating between being host and guest.

You'll quickly see that having your own great house is nice (and mandatory). But it's even nicer to have twice the space to use. And as the time progresses and you keep visiting each other, eventually you'll start to decorate the way in the middle between both houses which you keep crossing. Put out a bench, some deck chairs, a grill. Maybe she plants some flowers. That is the way you have together, the place that both of you can design.

This is the model of a well-working dating and relationship dynamic.

Problems arrise if one person has a very small house. Or rooms fall into disrepair as you don't use them anymore. If you're always hanging out in her place, or she always wants to stay at only your place, then you no longer have the benefit of two large places to enjoy together. The person with the bigger, more interesting house ends up always being the host for the other partner. Which gets tiresome.



Which sounds like what happens now. You're focusing so much on the path between your two houses, and on her rooms, that your own house is being neglected. That in turn means she's losing space because you are giving up space, she's losing the guy who had a house full of interesting rooms to show her. Make sure you keep being that guy for her, by making sure that you keep building and improving your own home.

Posted By: mikew

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/15/16 05:14 PM

Originally Posted By: MarkG
What has her concerned I think, is my disinterest in hitting the books (math, programming, etc.) and working on my game (F-19 redo) lately.

We're all concerned about that...
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/15/16 05:39 PM

RSColonel_131st: That was deep, man. And believe it or not, I actually get it! thumbsup

mikew: Good to see you again! cheers Well, that settles it then. I gotta start stepping off cloud 9 and get my flight simming mojo back! And that's really what she wants, for me to have balance in my life.
Posted By: RSColonel_131st

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/15/16 08:52 PM

Thanks Mark, happy if it helps.

I came up with it, of all things, in my bathtub pondering some recent failed dates. And with a bit of vanity I might say - it really is the complete model to diagnose bad relationshios (from first meet to years later).

It also makes it very easy to understand what to look for, and what to not accept, when you meet a new person - or where to spend energy in building a good relationship even after years.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/16/16 07:21 PM

Originally Posted By: MarkG


I don't know if she's saying in a subtle way that I'm beginning to smother her (I don't think so as this has never a problem in the past), or that she's afraid I'll (or we'll) begin to burn out on the current intensity of our relationship. Or maybe she thinks I'm not being my own person enough anymore, because to me it has become all about "us" lately.

I know I don't always get it, like when you think they're complaining that you're being a bit too...rough, and then after they complain that you slowed down or that you asked too many questions of concern like, "You sure you're ok?". You're suppose to be able to figure out when "No" means "No" (which to me it always should) or when it really means "Don't stop what you're doing even if I seem to protest it". confused


And then I pulled her into the shadows of an alley and kissed her the way she likes to be kissed (and I didn't sense any protesting about it). biggrin


The problem is when people attempt to apply what makes logical sense to how feelings work. We want to make sense of things, we want them to be predictable so we know when we're doing the right thing or not. Feelings do not work this way. Attraction is not a choice, and with women, it's their feelings that determine what they feel from moment to moment. Applying past observations of what may have looked like something that worked might have no effect in the present or the future. A mistake in dating to make is to assume that a woman's interest one moment in the past means the same thing again later on.


Males and females often baffle one another, because they are different- with women, it's typically more how they feel at that moment, the past is not necessarily and indicator of what will work again. Women for example will like 'it' rough, but you can't be apologetic about it, it only works when the guy is confident and can read women's responses intuitively when rough is too rough, then sense when to back off and let the woman feel comfortable enough to resume again.

"No means no" always- actually it doesn't. I can't say about marriage, but in dating, women reserve the right to change their mind about this (or anything) on a whim, at any time. Women will sometimes bluff men to see how they react- to see if they persist, to test their resolve or to test how confident to confront challenges or how clingy they might be (there's probably an evolutionary reason for this, since in the past, the woman's status is very much anchored to the man's status that she hooks up with and may conceive children with, females have evolved psychological games and sorting formulas they apply even subconsciously on men to determine what sort of partner they're dealing with). That's why I say that men, maybe good intentions as they might have but naive and probably misled by pop culture, are really, really at a disadvantage generally in dealing with women if they don't realize this stuff is going on. Simply not playing on the same field. If they really don't believe that, women will score points all over them and they have no idea it's happening.

It's known as a 'sh!t test', (there's other tests, women for instance may lie and say they have a boyfriend already to see if the prospective suitor backs down, panics, persists- a good strategy to pass the sh!t test is to simply ignore them as if she didn't say anything and not to react and just move on) to see what kind of male they're dealing with. Furthermore, because women often have guilt saddled on them for being interested in sex to begin with (or be considered, loose, easy and so on), they put up a front of disinterest. So it's up to the male to be able to read these individual circumstances and determine when women are bluffing disinterest or really are disinterested.

Collectively, women pull one big giant sh!t test on men all the time (ahem, feminism is the biggest 'sh!t test' of all- it's like they are coming together and are saying, "are you really letting us get away with this?"), when they come together and agree to put down males for their seemingly one track minds. A controversial topic which everyone knows is when women dress sexy and provocatively in public- they don't do this to get people's attention, right? Just because they are dressed like that, they don't want the attention from others, right? The answer is yes and no.

Whenever you see women sporting cleavage or some other kind of dress which accentuates their bodies in public, yes, it means they want attention, they just don't want just anyone's attention. If some high value looking guy (good looking looks confident, looks successful, doesn't look desperate or creepy) walks by, they absolutely love the attention from the guy. If on the other hand you get a bunch of typical dumb dudes, or you get the average sleaze constantly cat calling them or getting in their faces, that's the kind of attention they don't want. You don't see elderly women typically dressing in ways to invite sexual attention and attraction, you don't see women who don't feel proud of their figures dressing that way, it's not an 'accident' that a women dresses to signal for attention and then acts like she doesn't want attention.

This is on purpose- males have to be able to read the individual women and context and gauge what the mood is. Again though, with long term relationships, these things may or may not apply the same way, after years and years together the relationship changes from the mystery attraction phase into something else.

Posted By: oldgrognard

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/16/16 07:41 PM

"No means no" always- actually it doesn't."

WTF kind of advice and thinking is that ? I hope people dismiss that for the poppycock it is.

Yeah, try using that in a court. You'll be convicted.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/16/16 07:46 PM

A women can say yes and still claim rape later on too- yes can mean no, no can mean yes. If you really want to avoid that risk entirely, the thing to do is to avoid women altogether. But if that's not an acceptable option, then you have to be able to read them.

Again, it's about gauging the women at that time. You have to watch not only what women say, but what women actually do- and the latter is more important. That's a rule of thumb for all situations- women may say they like you or say they like a certain thing, but if they don't act like it, then it's the latter that should be what men pay attention to.

I was in a relationship with a woman and we were at her place and her friends were on their way over. I started coming on to her a little before they arrived, and she said smiling, "stop it," but not in a demanding or assertive way, in a playful, teasing way. So I read her interest and the way she actually behaved, rather than what she said, and I kept going- not with a rough touch, in a gentle, teasing way, mirroring her gestures. And she didn't stop me, while still playfully telling me to stop. Well, we stopped because the doorbell rang, otherwise it would have went further.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/16/16 07:51 PM

To add to this- look at the covers of women's dumb romance novels. What is a scene on them? Some guy grabbing them and the woman often looks like she is swooning- resisting, yet weakening to his grip at the same time. Again, no accident- women can and are turned on by scenarios where the male is assertively taking her and she resists yet is succumbing to him. That is in their fantasies to some degree or another, but males have to read the individual woman and gauge where her comfort zones are and know the pace to proceed at- back off if necessary and let her come to you when she's ready again.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/16/16 08:26 PM

Yikes! eek

I edited my post although now I'm being quoted (my fault), but what I meant to say was not so much the word "No" (a firm "No" means "No" ALWAYS) but the vibes you might be getting that you can totally miss interpret...

"I thought..."
"Why did you think that?"
"Because you..."
"Actually,..."

<miss-communication>

"The safety word is 'banana'". - Lois Griffin biggrin

Man, I hope that clears up what I was saying (or shouldn't have said in the first place). Believe me, I know what "NO" means, I was a 20-year old virgin on my wedding day! smile I just don't always get the subtle messages.

++++++++++

Now I'm thinking I need to take her advice and focus on more important offline activities, I'm only going to get myself in more trouble here.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/16/16 08:40 PM

The vibe is a good way to put it. Again, there's what women say and what they actually do- the vibe is the overall picture you get from a person. There are girls who will give a weak 'yes', but the vibe you get is actually 'no'- she's not comfortable and not sure what to say, but says yes for her reasons. This weak vibe should be an indication not to proceed. She's saying yes verbally, not really.

I've had a few women who scared me with how rough they liked it- way too rough, and it didn't turn me on, and when I wanted nothing to do with it, that made them even more turned on and more vicious and wanted it rougher. And some of them gave the firm no, but that was their thing- they wanted me to proceed more as they resisted, that's what turned them on.

Regardless of the individual psychology of the particular woman, collectively, women have biologically and socially evolved to read men to get information that they don't otherwise get- from the appearance of men, say, looks can be deceiving. So to some women who are turned on by a guy who persists, that indicates subconsciously to them a guy who goes after what he wants in life, and could be a good provider and so forth.

But to reiterate, each person has their own comfort level of where that begins and ends, that's the vibe you have to read.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/16/16 09:08 PM

I'm going to risk getting in deeper and add one more thing to this discussion, because it'll bother me if I don't.

If your personality is of a gentle nature (and if you're fat you might be called "a big soft teddy bear" smile ) then you might have a tendency to not be...assertive (if that's the correct word) enough. Even after making a compatibility adjustment (and this can take years), you may still be too quick to want to 'back off' and then continually question the situation because it's just in your nature to be that way, although you may have completely miss-read (and thus possibly ruined) the moment.

My equating any of this with the firm words of "No" (or even "Stop") was inappropriate.
Posted By: RSColonel_131st

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/16/16 10:32 PM

Mark, you didn't post anything wrong, don't worry. Anyone with a brain got your meaning.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/16/16 10:58 PM

By the way, for those who want to get a perspective from a woman on men:

There was a very controversial book written in the early 70s by a feminist named Esther Vilar called, The Manipulated Man - it was considered shocking at the time when third wave feminism was kicking in and a feminist wrote about what women really think and feel about men. It talks about the ways men are naturally manipulated by women and the inherent natures required of women to do it. There are probably evolutionary advantages to it, because the weaker sex needs assurances and guarantees that she has some kind of control over the stonger, potentially more dangerous partner, the very advantage of a strong, assertive male to gather resources and dominate social hierarchies, could also mean a volatile brute when his temper gets away from him, females evolved to manipulate essentially the partner that would help them survive and raise children. Hence why the women who love dumb brutes who display dominance over others but can be tamed at home. Males are generally clueless about it. It's a fundamentally different mindset that males and females have.

http://www.amazon.com/Manipulated-Man-Esther-Vilar/dp/1905177178

As with anything a woman does, you might presume an ulterior motive, because why would a woman, a feminist, reveal 'the truth' about the way women actually think versus the way society conditions men to think of women? That would be a good question to ask yourselves, but let's say you have an open mind and are at least curious:

Would men prefer not to know the truth and live in ignorance, or would they rather confront the truth of the way women really are and the way the sexes are fundamentally different and diverge in their own interests?
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/16/16 11:55 PM

Originally Posted By: RSColonel_131st
Mark, you didn't post anything wrong, don't worry. Anyone with a brain got your meaning.

Thanks. <wipes forehead>

I was just thinking of an example where I don't always get it (and was probably thinking too far back anyway), and chose a poor example. But ok, I won't stress over it any longer. smile
Posted By: W-Molders

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/17/16 04:31 AM

men want looks and woman want money ... end of story.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/17/16 04:46 AM

Women want it all: they won't per se turn down a good looking man, but they want everything, they want the whole package in principle. But the whole package is rare, there's only so many of those guys to go around. It's the same thing with men- as a rule, all men want an attractive face, but not all men end up with that, based on what they think they can get. There are studies which have shown that people tend to prefer the attractiveness of their potential mates based on how attractive they perceive themselves. Even though men and women were shown pictures of attractive members of the opposite sex, when choosing long term partners most people prefer the 'level' of looks that they think themselves are worth, in other words they don't have to worry about trading up or down too much, they don't have to worry about a partner who might perceive themselves as too good for them, or a partner that is too low on the scale to interest them.

The thing that baffles men is the mystery: what do women see in us? Because men have little choice but to think women are attracted to things the same way men are attracted.

So why do women apparently prioritize looks lower than men? Well, it's the way they experience life differently. You see attractive women get a lot more attention and get hit on and cat called and even experience subtle and not so subtle signs- turning heads and so forth, men opening doors for them, getting out of their way, offering to help, and so on- every single day, several times a day virtually 365 days a year. To these women, all men start looking alike, they all look the same. Even handsome men get boring to them when they act like all the other men. That's why men, good looking or not, start looking generally the same to women. It would be similar to a wealthy guy or celebrity who gets women throwing themselves at them- they all start looking the same. If women looked who like models threw themselves at you constantly, even that would get boring.

What I stress is that looks get you noticed, but it only opens the door, it just means you can make more mistakes than a less attractive man before the woman passes.

But it's not about your looks so much as it is your vibe. The same way theme music can set the tone in a movie in drastic ways, it's people's vibe that make the impression. A man's looks are divergent with his vibe, say, if he looks quite handsome but his vibe comes off creepy or goofy or something. Then his looks are irrelevant.

Turn it around- think of an attractive woman. If that same woman had a hideously ugly laugh that she belched out constantly, yelled and screamed at the top of her lungs all the time, and her body language was quite masculine, well, that undoes what her looks could have done for her because of her vibe.

Posted By: RSColonel_131st

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/17/16 09:40 AM

The problem, Mechanus, is that you are still, every single post of yours, looking at women as some kind of computational device where it's your job to make the right input to get the right output.
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/17/16 11:23 AM

I wonder if people 5,000 years ago felt romantic relationships were this complex? biggrin
Posted By: Peally

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/17/16 02:12 PM

Back then you just bopped her on the head with a rock and dragged her to your bachelor cave.
Posted By: RSColonel_131st

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/17/16 02:21 PM

And always drag at the hair, not the feet.
Posted By: Peally

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/17/16 02:21 PM

Of course, we're not savages.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/17/16 04:55 PM

Originally Posted By: RSColonel_131st
The problem, Mechanus, is that you are still, every single post of yours, looking at women as some kind of computational device where it's your job to make the right input to get the right output.



I think the problem is everyone's. Relationships are a problem for everyone. The fairy tales aside, the lies told about what they are supposed to look like is not reality. If you still cling to that reality, you will never understand women.

It's a dividing line either you cross or you won't. If you refuse to accept this, you will not understand and you will still have the fairy tale version of things, which by now I would assume you see there's something wrong with it. How long will keep going pursuing that, holding out for it, waiting for it, still assuming it's out there going to pop? When do you give that illusion up and see things for what they are?

Men and women are not the same, that's a fundamental mistake that men make to assume that when they look for a soul mate or something. They think that they're going to find that woman who thinks the same way as they do, that doesn't happen. As I've said before, that's the way men think, that's the kind of stuff you see in the movies, written by and for men who don't have a clue about women.

Women absolutely positively view you differently than you view them. Their sex drives are different, their brains are wired different, they're different.

Keep believing otherwise- then you fall into one or two categories, which are the flip sides of the same coin.

1) You're a traditionalist, you believe in romance, chivalry, and this sort of thing. Well, look what that is- chivalry is not a code women are expected to reciprocate- they're not even capable of it. It's men who risk their lives and are self sacrificing for women, men are the romantic ones and the ones in awe of women- they put women on the pedestal. Women simply are not expected to return sentiments like that. Do women shield men in danger with their own lives as much as men do for women- it rarely happens the same way. Likewise, it's men much much more likely to commit suicide after a broken relationship than women. That shows how much women actually care about men.

2) You're a modern feminist or feminized man. With third wave feminism, the goal isn't to make women equal with men (which women don't really want with men anyway), but to declare women, again, superior and to put them on a pedestal.

All relationships are transactional- nobody gives their affections out of charity, a woman will never give herself to you just simply because you exist and you deserve it. There is something you must be able to do for her, or provide for her, you're a utility. There was a fellow named Briffault who summed it up nicely-

Quote:
"The female, not the male, determines all the conditions of the animal family. Where the female can derive no benefit from association with the male, no such association takes place."


Women are attracted to guys they respect- they trade up in respect, not down. So the problem in long term relationships is that unless the guy continues to keep offering more to the woman, she starts losing respect as a function of time. You have to keep providing more, as they're never satisfied. There's a problem though- if you give in and give a woman everything her heart desires, like a spoiled child, she still loses respect for you. She'll take it and resent you for giving in and giving her everything. You can't respect someone who kisses your ass. It doesn't work that way. It's in their nature to always want more- that is what creates an ideal mother ias a woman who can keep extracting resources or favors from their mates or their suitors. That's in their biology.

So men are really in the dark at what happens. In the beginning of a relationship, that's when they're awash in pair bonding hormones responsible for that feeling called love. Over time, as that wears down, the woman will change and doesn't act the same way. That's when her hypergamy instincts kick in, and she starts putting crap on the male to satisfy her more and more. The male works harder to please with less benefits coming back his way.

But keep believing in fairy tales, it's your life. Do as you wish.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/17/16 05:07 PM

A woman's life is more valuable than a man's. A woman's eggs are more expensive than a man's sperm. Males continually produce sperm over their lifetime, there's always more where that came from. A man can potentially impregnate several woman at a time, but a single woman can only be pregnant once at a time for a long period, and then still has to raise those children. Therefore, women are the more expensive commodity. When men are in large supply because of the lack of wars or famines or whatever, and their labor is replaced by machines or computers, they become increasingly worth less. Attractive women on the other hand, well, it doesn't happen the same way. They're always desireable.

Basically a society needs fewer high value men who can impregnate lots of women rather than lots of mediocre men and a few women to procreate in order to propagate the community with healthy offspring. So on a large scale, men's lives are not worth as much as women's. And our culture does everything to promote that idea. It's only getting worse and worse. I've said this before, in the past, the males were much more of a catch than they are today.
Posted By: Wireman

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/17/16 05:12 PM

Barnyard princple.
Posted By: oldgrognard

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/17/16 05:12 PM

How much of this is going to be on the final ?
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/17/16 05:16 PM

Originally Posted By: oldgrognard
How much of this is going to be on the final ?


I have the Cliff Notes version if you want them. biggrin


Mechanus does make many valid points though. Humanity overall is becoming less and less valuable due to an oversupply and a lessening demand for labor but this is especially true for men as Mechanus pointed out.
Posted By: Wireman

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/17/16 05:20 PM

Yes. But it is not exactly mind blowing knowledge for folks who are of average adjustment in the mixed crouds found in society.
Posted By: Peally

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/17/16 05:22 PM

Huh, I thought he was just a broken record.
Posted By: Dart

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/17/16 05:31 PM

Originally Posted By: PanzerMeyer
I wonder if people 5,000 years ago felt romantic relationships were this complex? biggrin


They were, and they weren't.

Our concepts of love and romance are fairly new and not necessarily universal across all cultures (even today).

Coupling was decided by families, not individuals, and people made their marriages work because the only other choice was to be absolutely miserable - and a lot were.* This was true even in the lower classes, and if one was truly poor one didn't get married at all.

Right through the Victorian Era a man had a wife and a mistress and that was perfectly fine.

Personally, I never thought getting married was a "finish line" or anything of the sort. I viewed it as a solemn vow that was going to take effort to fulfill. It's definitely been an adventure so far and just keeps on getting better.

Part of that is to stay interesting. Not sexy, not adoring, not romantic, but interesting. After all that great sex people have to talk to each other if they live in the same house, and if there isn't anything to share it kind of falls apart.

* Even in the lack of arranged marriages there is the matter of the illusion of free will. When people are given a choice of mates from a group selected for them (through a whole host of mechanisms), it's not really free choice. If I ask what you'd like to eat - an apple or an orange - I'm not asking you what you'd like, I telling you to pick one or the other.
Posted By: Top Gun

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/17/16 06:42 PM

this is all I see from Mechanus, had to turn that on long ago. Never seen a guy talk so much in circles and just bloviate about himself.

banghead

Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/17/16 07:32 PM

As far as I can tell, the hostility comes from fellows who sort of sense that this is what is true, but they're not ready to accept it. Anger and frustration is probably a normal reaction when their eyes begin to open. If it didn't bother them, they wouldn't get upset. Block me if you must, I never block any of you.

I'm not religious, but there's something to take from the Adam and Eve story from the Old Testament. I think there is profound wisdom in it.

What happens? They have it all, living in the garden of Eden. Everything they could want was provided and taken for. What does woman do? That's not enough. She wants more. Thus the curse of Eve- the curse of being a woman. Never. Satisfied. Ancient cultures knew something even then.

Is it better to always give or to always receive? It's probably empty either way, but I think it's worse to be the one to always expect to receive, since that person is dependent on external forces, rather than independently able to find their own source of strength, and so on. The difference between man and woman.

If you believe in a Creator, he, she, it, or whatever has made it this way. Whether you believe in a Creator or whether you believe this is naturally how our species evolved with our without that, the same outcome either way. Consider it a warning that they left behind when writing these parables and stories you see in so many cultures.
Posted By: oldgrognard

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/17/16 07:40 PM

Originally Posted By: Mechanus
As far as I can tell, the hostility comes from fellows who sort of sense that this is what is true, but they're not ready to accept it. Anger and frustration is probably a normal reaction when their eyes begin to open. If it didn't bother them, they wouldn't get upset.




It exposes your understanding of things if you think that is why people are hostile to your obsessive postings on this.

Why do you continue this, you are not doing yourself any favors. Certainly you can see that people are not laughing with you.
Posted By: LB4LB

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/17/16 07:48 PM

Have you ever looked over at a car on the highway and seen a really old man with a really old lady in the passenger seat? Most of the time the really old man just has the '1,000 yard stare' as they go down the road. The women is usually just sitting there silent. They look like they have been married for about sixty years, and the secret to their success is that they can just barely stand each other enough of the time to keep it together. You sometimes see them in a restaurant like a Denny's or a Golden Corral. The whole meal, no conversation, no drama, no stress, no bull sheet, no nothing. Yet, they both seem pretty content.

All I can say Mechanus, is lighten up dude. It's not that complicated. Just like a new born baby, it just happens everyday.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/17/16 07:51 PM

Well, I do lighten up all the time.

I'm terrible at small talk though- never understood it, I'm not good at it or really capable of it. Yeah, provocative topics interest me. That might get people irritated, I'm not trying to do that on purpose, I have nothing to offer in the way of small talk, though.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/17/16 07:54 PM

And I don't look at people in public and assume a whole lot about what goes on at home, there's the public display and what really happens back home.

As people move into their twilight years, it's hoped that things calm down a bit when the hormones are no longer in play.

Even then I'll tell you something personal about my grandparents- content as you put it, but they slept apart in separate bedrooms for decades, didn't really spend a lot of time together, they watched separate TV shows in separate rooms, did different things around the house. The little time they did spend together was about an hour at dinner time, which was enough for them.
Posted By: LB4LB

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/17/16 07:57 PM

And did they seem happy and content?
Posted By: Wireman

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/17/16 08:01 PM

Damaged goods-Sounds like you've got a good grip on your life though. That post does shed light on your other posts. Carry on.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/17/16 08:01 PM

I'm not sure. I never asked them what they really thought or felt. They seemed content to be apart but for the one hour or so they were together, then they just did their own thing. I kind of regret that, but I was too young to understand that kind of thing to ask those kinds of questions. I'll never know.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/17/16 08:06 PM

And I have to stress something here- nothing I say about this is original, so if you think this is all coming from me, that would be incorrect. I've invented nothing about any of this.

It would be naive to assume that people haven't studied relationships and extensive discussions haven't gone on about them. Something as important as relationships have been dissected like a science.

I think the problem with males is that they are usually the ones to dismiss these topics because they aren't as technical, they don't think they are as important, or they aren't as interested in them. Thus again the disadvantage they face in their relationships with women, who do tend to study these things much, much more. It's an inherent imbalance that men are typically more uncomfortable in rectifying, therefore, they're always much more clueless than women about relationships and are easier blindsided.
Posted By: Dart

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/17/16 08:18 PM

I read Mechanus' posts and accept that he's more pick-up artist than the settling down kind - and with that none of what he writes is offensive.

Heck, been there, done that, managed not to get a t-shirt or a diagnosis. If the goal is to pick up chicks, have fun, some laughs, and move right along when it's not fun any more, then the science and art of attraction are best to be studied. It doesn't work in the long run in a marriage - one can't fake anything for more than a few months, and the first blush is just that - but it does work wonders for a Saturday Night (or a Tuesday afternoon).

I admire people who realize they're not cut out for the commitment of marriage and stay single. Loads of people just aren't built for it and try it anyway, usually multiple times, and are miserable. And yes, one can flip from man-about-town to stay-at-home Dad pretty easily, if one really wants to.

My wife is brilliant and understands there is a difference between taming and domesticating animals. And real men are no different.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/17/16 09:49 PM

Just stating the obvious, Mechanus' perspective is with dating and short-term hookups whereas my perspective is being in a long term relationship (all that I know), where total trust was established eons ago.

My efforts have been all about getting the spark back, and now to keep the flame going for the duration. I can pinpoint the very day my life and marriage began changing for the better (well, if only I could find the paperwork to an emergency doctors visit). I knew on that evening of pill popping, EKGs and scheduling of next day early morning stress tests that my wife was really going to stick by me no matter what. Why I doubted it near the end of the previous 20-something years, I don't really know other than the fact that we didn't seem to like each other anymore (love was there, not so much friendship...if that makes any sense).

It's been only the last 8 years (out of 32, 28 of them married) of turning it around, 3 that it's been *really* good and last July (I think) in Atlanta, we realized we'd done it, we'd made our relationship what we'd always hoped it would be. Really though, the first 5 or so years of marriage were good if not great, but it started going south after that, right up to that doctors appointment.

I'm doing it by going back to what got it all started in the first place, and it wasn't my intelligence nor my money (which were in very short supply smile ). It's mainly just spending quality time together, and doing lots of fun and romantic things.

Our first date was a concert (Alabama '84) and we've always enjoyed listening to music together, especially live music where you also feel the energy of the audience and are encouraged to get a little physical, if just a waist holding sway. I feel like I hit pay dirt in this regard (thanks Baton Rouge! thumbsup). For example, swaying with your Mrs. while the band right in front of you is belting out Heart's "Alone" is flipping awesome! smile

Blanket under the stars, little notes and short letters, phone calls just to say "I'm thinking of you", everything I can possibly think of that worked then...also works today.

But it takes two to make it work...

She *could* just roll her eyes and consider my actions too corny or high schoolish, but she doesn't. Same with Friday night's spontaneous lip-locking, she could have pulled away and said, "Knock it off!" or "Quit being silly.". Instead she submitted and melted into my arms (damn, now I'm sounding all mushy and stuff).

I believe what she's been missing from me is assertion (which shows desire), beginning somewhere around my late-20's when I started becoming *really* fat. It's hard to feel manly with a huge belly and moobs, ya know? Not to mention problems caused by being seriously overweight and blood pressure in the stratosphere, take a Viagra in this condition and your heart explodes?

Assertion shouldn't be confused with aggression though, that to me is when you can cross a line of consent and communication is key to knowing exactly where the lines are drawn. I say if you're not sure in the moment, err on the side of caution (assuming you're not signing detailed contracts like in the movies smile ). Or just use "Banana" as the safety word! biggrin

I don't know if I'm very interesting to be around, but I sure do try to show her a good time and I'm working hard to look my best!
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/18/16 12:21 AM

Certainly long term and short term relationships differ- I have very low stamina for it, so count me out on long term relationships with women. I really feel better alone altogether than being in a monogamous relationship. It feels completely contrary, and it feels suffocating.

This is really for the brave, again this isn't just me saying it, here is the Wikipedia summary about the book I recommend about the long term strategy of the female of our species, particularly under the conditions in Western Civilization and how it has empowered women:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Manipulated_Man

I really recommend this book, if you don't believe it, no harm can come. But the danger is you'll likely recognize some things you've seen before.

If you still want to hold out for the dream, do not look at it. I recommend reading this book if you have the slightest interest in male-female dynamics and you want to understand what has happened, certainly if you want to even the playing field more. It's a bitter pill to swallow though, and plenty of guys will not do it. I think it's ironic, because once you understand this, you've flipped the script on women so to speak, and from that point on, the world looks different, and you are no longer the mere utility they think of us as. There's simply no articles in Cosmo or other women's magazines titled: "What do women do when men figure out women's manipulative, cold natures,", rather the articles always presume how to control men and get them to dance to the music that women call.

The interesting thing I found when I became more independent of women, and didn't care what they thought of me, and I wasn't trying to impress them and gain their approval, they found me more attractive then. That's the way it works and that's their curse- they get what they want all the time, either through the female collective such as feminism, or individually, then they are miserable for it and demand more. You do the take away on them and show them the door, then they come back for you.

Posted By: Dart

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/18/16 01:38 AM

Quote:
The interesting thing I found when I became more independent of women, and didn't care what they thought of me, and I wasn't trying to impress them and gain their approval, they found me more attractive then.


Partner, long term relationships work on the same principle, only with a small twist.

I can't speak for other successful marriages, but mine works day-to-day on respect. P--sy whipped men are not respected by their spouses, nor are "submissive" wives.

I don't try to impress my wife or gain her approval as much as I make sure she looks at me as someone she respects and wants around. That means holding up my end of the bargain as much as I can and expecting her to do the same - and acknowledging it when she does so. It's about teamwork and drawing from each other's strengths to be successful at things.

Part of that is being an individual and encouraging her to do the same. She didn't blink twice when I told her I was going to get a pilot's license and build an airplane, as it was clear it was something I was going to do. At the same time she will notify me of something she really wants to do or purchase as a courtesy.

It also means there are many occasions where we tell each other that we don't want to hear what they're talking about. Or put a limit on it. I will only endure about twenty minutes of reality show information, and she the same about airplane stuff.

There are times when we talk about decisions to be made and courses of actions to take, naturally, but usually it gets resolved quickly.

Then again, I married a pretty unique woman. We match each other really well, and I knew pretty much from the first day I met her that we were compatible for the long haul.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/18/16 01:53 AM

Mechanus, I believe it was Jedi Master who said something very wise on these boards that I've never forgotten (paraphrasing)...

If you have strong opinions about something, the internet is full of people who share your opinions, no matter how whacked they might be. A group (or book) can make your opinions seem to have merit, because others agree. I've been guilty of this myself.

In fact, I don't even read opinionated blogs anymore unless the author allows comments and criticisms, otherwise it's just a bunch of people agreeing with each other.

Men want... Women want... sweeping generalizations that may or may not apply to you and yours. Here's one for you, I enjoyed going to my first ballet more than I enjoyed my first college football game (both within the past couple of years)! So much for the stereotyping! biggrin

Red pill, blue pill, flush all the pills down the toilet (including my BP pills after my upcoming August physical), I just want to be happy...and I am. smile I hope you find happiness too.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/18/16 02:07 AM

Each of us finds our own center, and you have to do this on your own. You can't force it or contrive it, you might listen to someone else, but you can only come to your own conclusions or it won't be natural. I've said it many times, challenge what I say about this, don't just take my word for it. At the very least, the important thing to do that men tend not to so much is to discuss relationships. It's considered women's domain, and that's potentially dangerous if men don't start doing it, too.

Of course there's always 'not all men are like this, not all women are like this' and so on, but there are general things that still hold true, and individual variances within those general rules. So a general rule is: men like attractive faces on women, but not all men will agree on what that is, for example. But the general rule is still true.

So I will say, it's men who are the passionate, romantic ones, not the women. It's not the women who initiate romance, it's not the women who tend to develop passions, not just about romance but in general. After all, women are attracted to this mysterious, passionate energy that men seem to posses that they tend to lack. Women just aren't the risk takers and things like this that men are. Sure, you'll hear about women pioneers in such and such field, but only after men did the risky thing and laid the initial groundwork first. From a biological standpoint, it's not the woman who should be the risk takers as they are the ones who bare children, indeed, look at the way men's bodies and women's bodies are constructed. Men's agency looks designed or evolved to be the ones to break through barriers and settle new ground, female agency is designed to receive the fruits of all that. It shows in their physical construction, and it's the general mindset, there's variation between individuals and individual cultures, but the general rule is still true.

It may be something that's difficult to accept, but women and men do not feel the same way, or else if they did, then it would probably look 50/50 that they married each other as well of the opposite sex. It can't be the same, they feel differently.

In fact I say they are roughly equal and opposite. In matters of intelligence, emotions, behaviors, men tend to show more variations at the extreme ends, more male Einsteins, but more male Jack the Rippers, for example. Women on the other hand tend to be lumped more in the middle range. On a large scale, it all evens out, so for example, men tend to score higher and lower at the extreme ends of IQ, compared to women, who tend to occupy the middle and show less variation. But they both average out.

Here's the thing- men are usually quite logical, except when it comes to women. The physical appearance of women, short circuits men's logic circuits, and they buy into the appearance of their vulnerability and this kind of thing. They don't often pay attention to women when they themselves explain what women are really like, again, the logic fails here and they don't listen. Women can tell you what they themselves don't like about other women, there must be something to it when a woman tells you how they can be.
Posted By: W-Molders

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/18/16 06:11 AM

COPY AND PASTED FOR OUR SURVIVAL....

Leykis 101 Rules

Leykis 101 is a doctrine developed and promulgated by US radio personality Tom Leykis designed to teach male listeners how to achieve the most sex within the least amount of time, effort and money. Followers are called "Leykis 101 Students", and Leykis is "The Professor." Though only men are true Leykis "students," women are encouraged to listen to learn how men behave and think. Leykis' 101 class is currently held on The Tom Leykis Show on Thursdays.


$40.00 Spending Limits

Leykis 101 students are cautioned against spending more than $40 on a date. The reasoning behind this is Leykis' opinion that more money spent during a date will not necessarily lead to a better chance of sex, contrary to the belief of most 'uninformed' men. If the person a student is dating does not want sex by the third date, a Leykis 101 student is instructed to "dump that #%&*$#". Leykis asserts, as a matter of convenience to his students, that if a woman doesn't have sex with them by their third date, it means she has no intention of ever doing so.

If you have to go on several dates before reaching your goal, this can make girls very expensive. How do you do this? There's several ways to cut costs. If you are going out to dinner, eat first. Then at dinner, just order a salad or bowl of soup. What girl is going to eat more than the guy, especially if it's the first dates? Does she want to look like a little piggy in front of him?


3 Dates Rule

This one can be the hardest to follow, but abide by it. Girls know within the first 5 minutes how far they will go with you, and will probably do so at the earliest possible time. If you've been crossed off the "I'll sleep with him" list, it's very very difficult, and time consuming to get back on it.

Your time is better spent chasing new prospects. If you're on the list, you can still screw it up by being a jackass. If nothing's happened in 3 dates, it's time to move on. The chances of you sleeping with her by now is very low. The only time you should see her again is if there is guaranteed sex. Continuing to pursue her will just cost you more money and waste more of your time.

No Means No
Regardless of the situation, when a woman says NO, stop whatever you are doing or about to do and get out. Even if you are in the middle hot steamy sex and she says No, you stop what you're doing and get out.

* No does not mean she is playing.
* No does not mean just this one time.
* No does not mean she consents to sex.

U.S. laws mostly favor woman and will very rarely will it protect a man's right. Men do not have the same luxury as innocent until proven guilty. Men are tried, labeled, and accused with little discretion.

If a woman cries out rape you will not past GO, you will not collect $200.00, but you will go directly to jail. It is not worth spending the next 10 years in jail and living the rest of your life as a sex offender.


Single Mothers
Never Date Single Mothers.

Why? You already know their stance on abortion: they won't have one. Don't risk paying vaginamony or child support. Her kids will always be #1 in her life, and do you really want to take second-place to a woman? I didn't think so. Why support another man's mistake? How do you know she's not looking for a support figure? Or someone to support her financially? Think of all that, and realize that the odds are stacked against you. She's already had one mistake. She won't go for the Hail Mary (more on that below). The last guy didn't stick around. Why should you?

This isn't to say that some of them aren't very nice, have been screwed over by ex-husbands, or would be very great mates. But if you're just looking to get laid, they are a definite off-limits. More than likely, you're hooking up with a girl who wants another try at something she messed up the first time. With the hostility of today's legal system towards men, you just don't want to take the chance.

Leykis insists that some men have been ordered by the courts to pay child support to their former wives, even though they were not the biological father of her children. This, he asserts, financially ruins the men for many years making them unable to start a new life with another woman or enjoy the money they make.
Tabasco Sauce
Dispose of the used condom by flushing it down the toilet. Since this is not always possible, men are encouraged to carry some hot sauce to pour inside the used condom. According to Tom Leykis, there are several cases where women have attempted to impregnate themselves with the contents of used condoms, in an effort to extract child support payments from the man. Leykis advises men who use the 'hot sauce method' to "get out as soon as they hear a scream", probably indicating that the woman has tried 'injecting' the contents of the condom into herself. Leykis says, "if you're the risky type, stick around and sue her for attempted extortion."

Habanero and Tabasco are two widely used. Put some inside the used condom and kill the sperm.

In an attempt to get pregnant, there have been several reported cases where women take the used condom, insert the sperm into themselves, and try to get pregnant. Without your consent of course.

TAG!! You're It. For the next 18 Years

Why? Child support and she's set with your money. Especially if you are rich. Do not just leave it lying around. If you use the hot sauce method, and you hear her scream, take your stuff and RUN. If you're the risky type, stick around and sue her for attempted extortion. Her area is very sensitive to chemicals and she will think twice before trying that again.

Dating Co-workers
Dipping your friend in the company ink is a strict no-no.

In fact, you should not engage in any conversation with a woman at work unless it directly relates to work. Do not compliment them. Do not ask them out to dinner. Your conversation outside of work should be limited to Good (Morning / Afternoon / Evening). If you go beyond this, you're a lawsuit waiting to happen. If you do date a coworker and you break up, things can get tense around the office (especially if it was a nasty breakup). She can sabotage your career or, worse, file lawsuits claiming sexual harassment. At the minimum, you will have to see her every day, and maybe collaborate with her frequently. It's just not worth it. With all the background checks employers perform, if a sexual harassment lawsuit pops up you can say good buy to that job.

The courts are very hostile towards men in this regard as well, so just play it safe. If women want to be engaged in normal conversation, they can lobby the courts to be more lenient first. We're not going to risk our future to try to get a date with someone who, for all we know, is waiting for a guy to say "nice skirt" so she can claim sexual harassment and settle for a large sum of money.

Report all sexual harassments! If do not report it then it means that it is acceptable for a women to sexually harass men and get away with it.

Facts About Sexual Harassment
The U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission

Sexual harassment is a form of sex discrimination that violates Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

Unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature constitutes sexual harassment when submission to or rejection of this conduct explicitly or implicitly affects an individual's employment, unreasonably interferes with an individual's work performance or creates an intimidating, hostile or offensive work environment.

Sexual harassment can occur in a variety of circumstances, including but not limited to the following:

* The victim as well as the harasser may be a woman or a man. The victim does not have to be of the opposite sex.
* The harasser can be the victim's supervisor, an agent of the employer, a supervisor in another area, a co-worker, or a non-employee.
* The victim does not have to be the person harassed but could be anyone affected by the offensive conduct.
* Unlawful sexual harassment may occur without economic injury to or discharge of the victim.
* The harasser's conduct must be unwelcome.

It is helpful for the victim to directly inform the harasser that the conduct is unwelcome and must stop. The victim should use any employer complaint mechanism or grievance system available.

When investigating allegations of sexual harassment, EEOC looks at the whole record: the circumstances, such as the nature of the sexual advances, and the context in which the alleged incidents occurred. A determination on the allegations is made from the facts on a case-by-case basis.

Prevention is the best tool to eliminate sexual harassment in the workplace. Employers are encouraged to take steps necessary to prevent sexual harassment from occurring. They should clearly communicate to employees that sexual harassment will not be tolerated. They can do so by establishing an effective complaint or grievance process and taking immediate and appropriate action when an employee complains.

Approaching Women in Groups[/b]
Girls travel in packs when they're not looking to hook up. It lets the not-so-hot girls get as much attention as the real babes in the group. It's almost impossible to get one alone, much less take one home. Most likely, if you approach a girl in a pack, one will act as a "blocker," stalling you from your real girl. Chances are, when women are in a group, that someone is sober enough to tell her know, and insist that she go home with them. Just don't pay them any attention. Don't buy them drinks. Take a number, maybe, but don't pursue them.


Sex to Go
No spooning. No cuddling. No staying over. In and Out. This might be hard, might be easy, but if you do these things you're sending her a very clear message: you're not interested in a serious relationship. A serious relationship is the only time these kind of actions are appropriate.


Serious Relationships:

The general rule is, don't have a serious long-term relationship until you're 25. If you're in a committed relationship, it says you're ready to settle down.

Get everything out of your system first:

The three-ways, the one-night-stands, the fetish girls, the fantasies. Wait until you're in the 30's before you marry. You should have a well-established career by then, you'll be better prepared to afford a wife and kids. Hopefully within a steady well balanced home environment. Remember, once kids are involved there is no such thing as separation. She will always have some input into your life.

Even if you leave she can make you pay child support. Make sure you are ready to have kids and make sure both of you agree on it.

If you're under 25, you should not have a girlfriend.

You should be having fun and sleeping with as many people as possible. Some men do mature at different rates. If you're ready for marriage or kids, go for it. Just remember that over 50% of marriages fail. You had better be damn sure of it, or you will be paying for it the rest of your life. Marriages where both parties are older than 25 have a much, much higher success rate.

Children raised in solid households are much less likely to be social delinquents.

Weekend Dates

Do you want to look like a loser who has nothing better to do on weekends than wait for her to call? You should not answer calls from potential booty calls Thursday-Sunday, unless it is guaranteed poon.

* You have to make the girl believe that she has competition.
* That your time is valuable.
* That you have better things to do on weekends than spend time with her.
* You are a person in demand, even though you may be at home watching T.V.

She'll may be thinking: Are you with another girl? Are you in the bars? Attending important meeting? Keep her guessing. It will intrigue her.

Humans generally want what they can't have. If you make her believe she can't have you, she'll be that much easier to bag when you "let her in." Even if you have nothing to do, let her leave a voice mail. You're busy (banging other chicks, for all she knows).

If you do call never leave a voicemail;

If you do break this rule then One is the limit. she'll be wondering what you wanted and if you made other plans.

Remember, you're a person that is always in demand!

Cell Phone Dates

If a girl answers a cell-phone call in the middle of dinner, get up and leave.

Why? The person on the other end is the guy she's going to have sex with when she finally gets rid of you. If she says it's her kids, you're already violating the no "Single Mothers" rule. Her work? It's a date and it's late, if her work is more important then you, then it will always be more important. If she says its her friends, all her friends know she's out. That's just how women work. She can just turn the phone off and wait to gossip until the date is over.

You on the other hand, should carry a cell phone. Avoid answering it during dinner, by have your buddies make a call or two. Ignoring her for "work" makes you look important and in control. She will try to test you and get your attention on her. Sex might be used to get your attention.

If a female answers a cell-phone call in the middle of dinner, Leykis advises that the male should immediately get up and leave. He justifies this as follows:

* It is possible that the caller is another man who she is going to have sex with when she finishes her date.
* If the caller is one of her children, the man is already violating Leykis' 'no-single-mothers' rule.
* If the call is work related, and is deemed more important than the man now, it will always be more important.
* If the caller is a friend, Leykis claims, the woman is "most certainly lying because all her friends know she's out."

Leykis 101 Students believe that if a woman deems her male date unimportant enough that she feels comfortable answering her cell phone during the date, she is not sufficiently interested in having sex with the man. This really applies to two people that don't know each other or have never had sex with each other before.

Leave the resturant and the bill with her immediately, Tom advises that this would save the man a good deal of money. In contrast, he believes the man should always carry a cell phone on dates.

Leykis' logic follows that a man ignoring a woman for a work related call will actually make him look more "important and in control", thereby drastically reducing the "waiting period" women observe before having sex with men they're dating. Leykis claims that a woman will try to test a man, trying to focus his attention on her and, he believes, there's a good chance that sex might be part of the attention-getting hunt.

Women in Bars
A wingman can be helpful to break up a pair of girls or get them at your table, but going alone can be just fine. If you're desperate, just leave. Girls can smell despiration a mile away. That has a small stink of desperation, and if the girls in the bar see you get rejected once, you're pretty much shot for the night.

Sit at the bar or at a small private table. You have your money on the table (it's the closest item men have to attract "horny women"). Dress nice, in darker clothing (to appear dark, mysterious, etc.) Have a drink or two, and just watch the action. Scan the room. See who you want to have sex with. Sooner or later, girls are going to approach you. Wonder if you're waiting on someone. Or if you're just lonely.

By not approaching, you're not buying girls drinks that you have no chance with. Girls who approach you will likely sleep with you because you've already made the list of people they will sleep with. Now you just have to close the deal.

Homely Pickings
Normally only the fugally women remain late into the evening before the club or bar closes. The hot women have already found the men the will be doing while the fugally one's get left behind. If you don't care who you have sex with then this is the best time to find a desperate girl. Buy know you should be to drunk to care and horny enough to have sex with with Miss Rosy Palms.

Save yourself some money, goto a club before it closes, and pickup those women no one else would touch

Birth Control
Always use birth control no matter what.

You should be using birth control AND so should she. The pill is NOT the only form. There's about 12 different forms of birth control , they can't be allergic to all of them. If a girl is not on birth control, she wants to have a baby. Maybe not right away, maybe not with you, but if it happens she won't be too upset.

Do not, under any circumstances, stick it in without a condom. Even if she says she's on the pill. You don't know if she's tell the truth, or missed a dose, or simply forgot. You just don't know. Don't take her word for it and protect yourself.

Remember, 60 minutes of irritation is better much better then 18 years of child support.


Over the Counter Birth Control

1. Latex & Non Latex Condoms for Men
2. Female Condom
3. Spermicide Alone


Prescription Birth Control

1. Diaphragm
2. Cervical Cap
3. Birth Control Pills
4. The Mini-Pill
5. Depo-Provera
6. The Patch (Ortho Evra)
7. Norplant
8. Progestasert IUD (Intrauterine Device)
9. Male Sterilization (Vasectomy)
10. Female Sterilization
11. Contraceptive Sponge
12. The Hormonal Vaginal Contraceptive Ring (NuvaRing)
13. Emergency Contraception
1. Copper T IUD (Intrauterine Device


References:

* http://www.fda.gov/opacom/lowlit/brthcon.html /> * http://www.4woman.gov/faq/birthcont.htm#two />

No Gifts
Unless she's your wife never buy her a gift.

If you get them a gift once, they will try to get more expensive gifts later. If you HAVE to buy a gift for a girl, getting jewelry is probably the worst idea. Girls take jewelry as a sign of commitment. Getting her jewelry will either scare her off because of commitment, or drive her more into commitment, which you don't want unless you plan on marrying her.

You should not get her anything unless you have had sex with her. Remember, you're trying to get laid not develop a relationship.

Beverage Consumption

If using alcohol is your method of entry, then never buy a women beer or a light liquor. Not only will she not get the buzz your looking for but she will be taking a piss all night long. Leykis 101 students buy their women harder liquor such as Jagermeister, tequila shots, long islands, etc.

Never take advantage of someone that is unable to consent to sex. You don't want to spend the next 10 years in jail and labeled as a sex offender for the rest of your life. 60 Minutes of pleasure is not worth destroying the next 60 years.

Women and Alcohol

Are Women More Vulnerable to Alcohol's Effects?

"Women appear to be more vulnerable than men to many adverse consequences of alcohol use. Women achieve higher concentrations of alcohol in the blood and become more impaired than men after drinking equivalent amounts of alcohol. Research also suggests that women are more susceptible than men to alcohol-related organ damage and to trauma resulting from traffic crashes and interpersonal violence. This Alcohol Alert examines gender differences in alcohol's effects and considers some factors that may place women at risk for alcohol-related problems."

Metabolism

"Women absorb and metabolize alcohol differently than men. In general, women have less body water than men of similar body weight, so that women achieve higher concentrations of alcohol in the blood after drinking equivalent amounts of alcohol (5,6). In addition, women appear to eliminate alcohol from the blood faster than men. This finding may be explained by women's higher liver volume per unit lean body mass (7,8), because alcohol is metabolized almost entirely in the liver (9)."

National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism No. 46 December 1999



Types of Dates

No Coffee, breakfast, or lunch dates.

Why?

They're non-threatning. There's no booze. There's good lighting. All the advantages a bar or club are gone. Girls say, "well they're no-pressure situations," or "I don't feel like anything is expected of me afterwards." In translation: "I don't feel like I need to, or should, have sex with him afterwards."

This is bad! It might sound "mean," but you want them to feel pressure. You want their inhibitions a little lower. You want them to feel like something is expected of them. Your chances for getting laid increase dramatically. Nobody ever got laid after a coffee-shop date. There's no point in going. Just say no.



Jerks and A$$holes

We are a$$holes and jerks.

That's right. If you follow these rules, you'll probably be called a jerk or an a$$hole. Wear it with pride. "Nice Guys" don't get laid.

Ever notice how all the hot girls keep complaining about guys they hooked up with who turned out to be an assholes? You could be that guy! The guy who has his way with her one night, then leaves the next day and is never heard from again. Or maybe hooks up with her for a few weeks, then she finds out he has another girl on the side.

A monogamous relationship is not what you're looking for.

Master Filibuster

Take her home and do not stop for food.

She's just been drinking all night, you both are horny, and you're quickly trying to go to her house to hopefully get laid. You want to minimize the distance from drinking to sex. If she asks you to stop at a fast-food restaurant, or diner, she's stalling (filibustering). She knows she's a little buzzed and is trying to buy some time to sober up. Sober up so she won't be as horney and try to avoid sleeping with you. If you don't want this to happen then then don't take her out to eat.

Avoiding it is relatively easy AND sets you up for a quick exit later. If she asks, say that you have to work early the next day, you'll drop her off, and and leave. If she can't get another ride home, she'll drop the idea. If she can, she'll probably be having sex with the booty call/ride after you leave anyway. If you get back to her place and get it on, you then have an excuse to get out fast.


Eating Before Dates

The idea goes back to our Spending Limits rule. Eat a hearty meal before you go out on a date with her. That way, when you take her out to dinner, just order a green salad, and save money. No woman wants to eat more than you or else she'll look like a pig.



Marriage Contract

It should go without saying to get a Prenuptial Agreement.

Today, marriage is like a merging of two corporations. If you get married, you each take on half of each other's assets. That is, unless you sign a prenuptial agreement. Even that isn't guaranteed.

* If you have her sign it very close to the wedding, the agreement can be contested in court as having been signed "under duress."
* If you have a date already set then sign the prenuptial, it can be thrown out for forcing the woman sign under duress. Make sure to have the prenuptial agreement signed before setting a date.
* You should keep separate accounts. Buy your toys with your money. She won't get half of them if you can prove you alone funded them the gifts.
* Keep a shared account for bills and everything else, but a private account for toys.
* Make sure both of you have your own lawyers. That we she can't claim you and your lawyer coerced her into signing the document.
* When it comes to signing the paperwork, have it recorded, and for a little extra hire a retired judge to witness the event. That will play in your favor in case she claims during the divorce she was pressured into signing the agreement.
* Be very detailed and address all issues regarding kids, sex, her weight, how much she gets after certain years, palimony, cheating spouses, kids, the dog, businesses, stock, 401K, etc..
* You do not want the government screw you over for forgetting something.
* Read several books about divorce agreements so you have a good idea going.
* Pay the extra money for a reputable lawyer it will save you tons of money in the long run.

She may argue that getting a prenuptial is setting the marriage up for failure. Don't be fooled because this is not the case. No more is getting car insurance is setting one's self up to get a car car accident.

You are creating the prenuptial so that BOTH of you can be protected in case one passes away or there is a divorce. You both want to do what is good for the family! By no means is this a selfish act. You want to make sure that the government take control of something you both have struggled hard to build. If she doesn't want a prenuptial then she is the one that is trying to hurt the family.

Taking the time and energy to create a prenuptial shows that you care about the other person and have made a conscious effort to think about protecting the family.

The great thing about perpetual is that it give you and your wife the opportunity to set expectation before the marriage. So you both establish expectations and know where the other stands before making a large commitment.

I am not a lawyer and the above items are just some points i've heard on The Great Tom Leykis Show.
You Choose the Date
You're paying for the date then you choose where to have it. You can decide what to do, where to go, and how long to do it for. If the woman pays for everything, great, you can do what she wants. The person who's paying is the person who decides.

Otherwise, you might get stuck going to a ballet or musical when you'd rather see a movie and booze it up. Worse, she will pick the most expensive restaurant or activity possible to see if you will pony up. Having a firm plan shows that you're in control.



Income and Women

Your income generally determines the type of woman you will get.

It's not often that you see a really rich guy with a really ugly girl on his arm. But you quite often see really amazing girls on the arm of homely but rich guys. Look at rock stars -- some of the ugliest guys on earth, but they get laid more than you can ever hope to. Money and power will attract women just as much as a 12" penis. Work hard on your career. Strive high. Don't settle. Stay hungry. Girls upgrade all the time to a richer man and guys do it to with hotter and younger girls.

Facts of Life

* Leykis claims that the more money a man makes, the more attractive he is to females.
* Leykis claims that "young and hot girls" are a natural substitute for Viagra and Cialis.
* Leykis also claims that until a student's career is established, he should not have girlfriends. He often quotes empirical evidence as justification for not getting married.

Male Friends

Unless they are gay, male friends want to have sex with their female friends.

If the guy didn't find the girl attractive in the first place, he probably wouldn't have spent time with her in the second place. He just couldn't close the deal. Even worst he became her friend. If they both get drunk together and she offers sex, he will take her up on it. Be very wary of girls that spend too much time with their guy friends.

If she disagrees with the above, have her call and flirt with one of her guy friends and ask him if he would come over and pound her tonight. Most likely she will be ringing the doorbell before she hangs up.



No Sex At Your House

Never bring a woman back to your place.

Do you really want her to know where you live after you've dumped her and moved on to the next one? Do you want her dropping over uninvited on weekend and nights to "see if you're around?" No!

Have sex at her house or a hotel.

No Compliments

Never compliment a women.

It gives them a sense of power. You want to be in control. You don't want to let them think they can manipulate you. It raises her self-esteem and will probably lessen your chance of getting laid.

Remember, we are jerks and assholes that don't give a #%&*$#.

Easily Replaceable

Your goal is to make a girl feel like she doesn't matter and that she is easily replaceable. Make sure that she knows this. On nights she doesn't put out then leave and call the next person on your booty call list.

Even if you don't have a list, do not admit, and continue to leave. This will up her competitive spirit to have you stay around longer. In the spirit of competition, always check out girls that are hotter and younger than the girl you are with. If she calls you on it, admit it. She will feel threatened and it might give her more incentive to sleep with you or give you the best sex you've ever had. Remember, you're in charge not her.
Holidays

There are several important events that girls really want a guy around for. Christmas Eve and Day, New Year's Eve and Day, Valentine's Day, Thanksgiving Day, birthdays, etc. If you've been with a booty call for a while when one of these is comes up, then dump her.

You'll save yourself the money that would have been spent buying her a present, and there's a lot of lonely chicks out there who want to be with somebody--anybody. Women want to feel feel validated on the holidays, so they go out on a hunt to find the sucker to buy her presents. Your appeal will be much higher as a man during these times. Sticking around with a girl during these times plants long-term thoughts in her head. You don't want that for a booty call.

Change is Not Inevitable

Some women have this idea that men are there to be molded and changed to suit their needs. This becomes more prevalent after a man's married.

When you watch "the game." She can be welcome to support your activities but if she insists you stop, you insist she leaves. Women love what they consider a "fixer-uppers." That's why shows like Trading Spaces and Queer Eye for the Straight Guy exist. Girls think they can take a guy that makes good money and is pretty good looking, and turn him into their fantasy man. Don't let them do it. Your friends and habits were there before she was. She took you as you are. If she's not happy with it, she's the one that changed and she needs to deal with it.

Ladies:

"Men don't get hints". Nagging doesn't help. In fact, if you nag, it's more likely to make us doing what you hate, just to spite you. You took the good with the bad, if you don't like what they were doing before you got together then you should have left.

Prepare your Identity

Be the Doctor, Lawyer, Successful Business Man, Band Leader, or Millionaire these gold digging women are looking for. Play their game and come out ahead.

How is she going to know you're not really a doctor at 11:30pm after a couple Long Island Ice Teas? If you drive a Old Camery, say your car is in the shop and rent a better car like (Porsche work well) for a night out. If you're truly desperate, write your phone number on an ATM receipt that shows a very large bank balance (how will she know it's not yours?)

You must never tell a girl exactly how much you make. It gets them thinking about what you can afford to woo them with. Worse, it can get them thinking about how to spend your money. Show them that you have lots of money, let them think they can get their hands on it, but never let them have it. Go as cheap as possible. The rich didn't get rich by spending money. Stick with the $40.00 dollar rule.

Remember, when you are pretending to be someone else to have proof:

* Friends to vouch for you.
* Fake business cards.
* Fake home address in a rich area.
* Rented expensive cars.
* Nice suits, pants, and shirts.
* $100's on the outside and $1's on the inside.
* An attitude that you're better then her.
* Fake expensive watches and rings.


Power Before Kids and Marriage

Men have the upper hand before marriage and kids. They are not shackled by the government, kids, or a wife telling them what they can and cannot do.

While women are trying to trap men into marriage the government is forcing men to pay child support for children that are not theirs.
Paternity Test
Always get a paternity test no matter how sure you are that it is your child. You do not want to be paying 18 years for some one elses bas--- child.

Even if she says that she does not want your help raising the child get a lawyer and make sure you get a paternity test. Because in many states she can claim you are the father after a year and the government will force you to pay child support.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/18/16 01:51 PM

I use to listen to Tom Leykis years ago on AM radio (also Clark Howard and then David Paul [local Atlanta personality similar to Leykis]) and take his opinions as pure entertainment. smile

"Leykis asserts, as a matter of convenience to his students, that if a woman doesn't have sex with them by their third date, it means she has no intention of ever doing so."

I assume it doesn't normally happen *this* quickly, but I know just by talking with younger family members that the world moves much too fast today (accelerated further by constant instant communication?). I've seen the results in my own family with teen pregnancy (still in HS) and broken marriages.

You can't help but watch a show like Andy Griffith and long for a simpler time (minus other issues of the day). And it's not just age talking, I've always felt this way. If I had to choose just one, I'd take Mayberry over Gotham or in real life places, Main Street Madison, GA over Bourbon Street, New Orleans, LA.
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/18/16 02:13 PM

Originally Posted By: MarkG
"Leykis asserts, as a matter of convenience to his students, that if a woman doesn't have sex with them by their third date, it means she has no intention of ever doing so."

This is usually true unless the woman is religious.


Yes, there will always be exceptions but I think this is true in general.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/18/16 03:12 PM

Originally Posted By: PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted By: MarkG
"Leykis asserts, as a matter of convenience to his students, that if a woman doesn't have sex with them by their third date, it means she has no intention of ever doing so."

This is usually true unless the woman is religious.


Yes, there will always be exceptions but I think this is true in general.

Doesn't allow much time for building anticipation, does it? Or the enjoyment of getting to know you progress?

I know I need to mentally get out of high school, or at least into college, damn mid-life crisis (although the grass is definitely *not* greener to me outside of my own yard - both figuratively and literally). What I *really* need is a convertible, then I'd be all set! biggrin

Real life conversation I had recently...

"Are you really happy?"
"Yeah."
"Wait, no." <as I'm popping in an 80's "mix tape" disc into the factory CD player>
"This car sucks, it's no fun to drive at all and factory sound is terrible."
"But otherwise, yeah." <takes her hand>
Posted By: Dart

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/18/16 04:02 PM

I used the third-date-or-gone rule of thumb back in the 1980's and I never heard Leykis. Indeed, I was kind of a second date kind of guy.

Or, hell, I was the "avoid the wait - go ugly early" kind of guy.

Quote:
Homely Pickings
Normally only the fugally women remain late into the evening before the club or bar closes. The hot women have already found the men the will be doing while the fugally one's get left behind.

Save yourself some money, goto a club before it closes, and pickup those women no one else would touch.


Hahahahaha...middle of the road works, too.

But I never looked for drunk chicks or faked being who I am.
Posted By: Peally

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/18/16 04:06 PM

Originally Posted By: PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted By: MarkG
"Leykis asserts, as a matter of convenience to his students, that if a woman doesn't have sex with them by their third date, it means she has no intention of ever doing so."

This is usually true unless the woman is religious.


Yes, there will always be exceptions but I think this is true in general.


That rule is so old and outdated it's painful. If a girl I'm dating needs to do the deed by the third date somethings wrong, and that relationship ain't gonna last.

Makes sense if you're just hooking up with people but for anything long term that's hardly a rule.

Maybe I'm just an outdated late 20-something.
Posted By: VF9_Longbow

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/18/16 04:06 PM

3 dates with no sex = fail is definitely a good rule of thumb. There are always exceptions, if the girl is especially romantic or it looks like the dates may be leading to a serious relationship things might take more than 3 dates. If you really like a girl in a "marriage material" type of way, make sure she knows how much you like her by the 3rd date, but you don't necessarily need to screw her to do that. A romantic kiss at the end of a date with a concrete time set for the next date might melt her heart (Then again if she's a bit trashy this might be what makes her decide to chuck you out, so know the type of girl you're with!)

If you're just looking for something casual I'd say 2 or 3 is the magic number. First date sex while perhaps fun, has potential to wreck something that could have been good, so just hold yer horses til the 2nd or third date.

Most girls will reject you if you haven't made some sort of move by the 2nd or 3rd date so don't forget about that. It's a fine line between catching the fish or losing your lure, hook and sinker..!!
Posted By: LB4LB

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/18/16 04:27 PM

Things sure seemed a lot less complicated when I was young and chasing skirts. I was a dork, so maybe they were and I just didn't know it. I remember things like the 3rd date was big test, things could go either way. In college, nobody really dated, you just 'hooked up' like the kids say today. I have been married, divorced, and have lived with my current girlfriend for years now. I don't have any answers. I was always shy, so I am glad I grew up during a time were girls were aggressive in what they wanted. I was considered a nice guy, but back then that could be a good thing. It doesn't seem that way anymore. It seems like many young women today like the loser types.

One thing, playing guitar in a band did help things a little bit. Even for a dork. biggrin
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/18/16 04:51 PM

Originally Posted By: Peally


Maybe I'm just an outdated late 20-something.
That or women in Wisconsin takes things REALLY slow. wink
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/18/16 04:53 PM

Here's the thing about the nice guys- they're everywhere, they're a dime a dozen. They're boring.

A guy in his mind thinks 'I'm a nice guy, what's wrong with that?" Nothing intrinsically wrong, except=

Nice isn't sexy. Just simply being nice, well, that's a friendly vibe, not a lover vibe. In romance novels, the male characters aren't nice. They're anything but nice. Nice gets you friend zoned and added to the collection of nice guys who orbit around women and do nice things for them or behave nicely to them.

Women know what's on a nice guy's mind- they're wondering, 'Ok, another nice guy, does he really just want to be nice and be friends, or is he being nice because he wants to score? Why doesn't he act like he wants to score, why the nice routine?' Because they know what men want. Men are being nice because they want something, let's be honest- they're not nice to the unattractive girl over there or over there, they're being nice to me because they want to score.

If I think I'm a nice guy, well, there's a million more guys like me waiting in line. I'm nothing special. I'm not getting her juices flowing, if you know what I mean. Me and every other nice guy think we're exceptional for being nice, but again, that's most guys. Now it can work, but often not on the girls you like, it works on the girls who don't get much attention, if you know what I mean.

Men, be passionate- you have to create sexual tension in the woman, nice doesn't do that.

On the other hand, nice makes a good partner, but the problem with this is eventually, when a woman is ready to settle down, a nice guy is a good candidate for a doormat that a woman can walk over. Yes, they really are capable of running over nice guys.

This is why it's important to flip the script on women. See, again, they're used to guys checking them out all the time. Yes, even nice guys turn heads and check them out and stare at them from across the room but don't approach them or say anything, so that's what they see day in, day out from tons of guys, all these nice guys in the world.

Women get used to that, men all look the same- they all behave as if like a movie script. A woman shakes a body part, they heads turn like automatically. She approaches a door men want to open it, they want to help them with their things or problems, all on cue like a script, men look like these predictable machines.

Then they notice this one guy who doesn't look at them and doesn't seem to react the same way. He looks different, he has a different vibe. He seems unimpressed and seems to think of himself differently like better than me. Some kind of hotshot for not looking at me and kissing my ass. Jerk. How dare he. I must know more....

Posted By: MarkG

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/18/16 05:00 PM

LB4LB, I was a dork too. Even any "cool" stuff I might have done was really just stupid, I was mostly introverted with very few similar loser friends. I remember being laughed at because I was chasing after the teacher's pet type.

I mostly bypassed adult dating as I knew at my HS graduation that I was probably going to marry my girlfriend. I tried messing it up a couple of times the following couple of years, but always recovered.

I'm not pretending to stand on any moral/religious grounds with any of my comments as it was mostly about not chancing a pregnancy before college was over. We married during her junior year so that part of her plan was nullified (I couldn't wait to leave the reception and make that one hour drive. wink ).

I'm happy to continue emulating dating and courtship at home. smile
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/18/16 05:01 PM

+1 Mechanus.
Posted By: LB4LB

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/18/16 05:17 PM

Many women like guys that seem uninterested or unattainable. Hell, even I got more attention from women once I had a wedding ring on. Myself, I never cared for those kind of women. To each his own. I get the whole thrill of the chase thing. You are wrong in thinking that being a nice guys equals fawning all over a girl and letting here treat you any way she wants. That's not always the case. I believe in the 'do onto others as you would do yourself'.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/18/16 05:22 PM

You're right. And if you're good looking, aloof + good looking = intimidating and unattainable.

So do you have to display some vulnerability and offer cues that you are approachable, without breaking frame and looking like it was an act. Now you understand there is a subtle mating dance going on, now in you're a game with the woman. You've just leveled up from nice guy to cool guy in training.

So yes, you'll start noticing girls getting frustrated and being intimidated by you the same way attractive girls intimidate most men.

And you'll see how little self confidence women actually have, because it's rare for them to encounter a guy like this and they don't know what to do or how to handle it. They don't get much experience with it.
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/18/16 05:31 PM

I have to bring up my Luke Skywalker and Han Solo analogy.

When I was a kid I remember a lot my female friends saying about how they would love to have Luke as a husband but they would want Han Solo as their boyfriend.

Why?

Of course because Luke was the mild mannered nice idealist and Han was the mysterious rogue who spoke his mind.
Posted By: LB4LB

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/18/16 05:35 PM

There is nothing more sadder than a guy who looks like Jabba the Hut, but thinks he is Han Solo. Many women know a poser when they see one. Of course, may don't too.
biggrin
Posted By: Peally

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/18/16 05:43 PM

Originally Posted By: PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted By: Peally


Maybe I'm just an outdated late 20-something.
That or women in Wisconsin takes things REALLY slow. wink


I tend to date "sweet" girls wink

The longer I've waited, the better everything ends up being.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/18/16 05:50 PM

*NSFW*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqHYzYn3WZw

This is potentially what the next generation of entitled princesses may start thinking of themselves.

The joke may be on them, though. As men become more feminized and go along with how women are conditioning them to agree with everything they do and roll over if they want to get anywhere with women, the women themselves will find themselves more dissatisfied with the generation of easy to tame male doormats they've created in the first place.


Just want to remind everyone to pay attention to the very first sticky in yellow highlighting. Stay off the NSFW stuff.
Posted By: LB4LB

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/18/16 06:00 PM

No, those girls will end up alone and bitter. Shame on the 'adults' who made that video.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/18/16 06:37 PM

Originally Posted By: Peally
Originally Posted By: PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted By: Peally


Maybe I'm just an outdated late 20-something.
That or women in Wisconsin takes things REALLY slow. wink


I tend to date "sweet" girls wink

The longer I've waited, the better everything ends up being.


Hear, hear to all the sweet girls! cheers

If you have any edginess at all, they'll help keep you in check.

If they're *too* sweet and innocent like a Disney character, you'll help take them out of their shell and be more fun (just try not to make mistakes like buying them the "Sex and the City" DVD collection...ouch. frown ).

Find one that compliments you, like Dart said earlier.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/18/16 06:46 PM

Originally Posted By: PanzerMeyer


Of course because Luke was the mild mannered nice idealist and Han was the mysterious rogue who spoke his mind.


Ding ding ding ding ding. Han Solo creates that sexual tension that even the mythical 'sweet girls' crave. There was a scene in Empire Strikes Back where Solo stares straight into Leia's eyes, leans in slowly as if ready to embrace and kiss her and says something like, "You could use a few more scoundrels in your life." This is something women just don't see from the legions of nice guys every day- it creates that tension that women thrive on, it gets the lower regions all tingly. For the male, it's the equivalent of a women staring into your eyes and seductively putting her chest in your face while implying what it all means.

By the way, once the girl tames the bad boy Han Solo, she's conquered him and the expiration date will kick in. The fate of all bad boys is that once they give in to their feelings, they start behaving like the nice guys and become the tamed beast and get boring. That was the fate of all the alpha jocks you might have known in HS who got all the girls- look what they turn into. Typical run of the mill guys.

Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/18/16 06:55 PM

Originally Posted By: LB4LB
There is nothing more sadder than a guy who looks like Jabba the Hut, but thinks he is Han Solo. Many women know a poser when they see one. Of course, may don't too.
biggrin


Well, better a Jabba the Hutt who thinks he looks like Han Solo than Jabba the Hutt who thinks he looks like Jabba the Hutt.

What you think of yourself is a lot of the puzzle how others will perceive you. It shows in your body language, in your attitude. So if it looks like you think poorly of yourself- you are the best judge of character of yourself- that's how others will perceive you. They're subconsciously using the information you provide.

It's simply better to think of yourself as desireable as a place to start.

Seduction is really letting women come to you rather than the other way around. The male peacock shows up, that's his job- he doesn't pursue the hens, it's the other way around. It's no use to have all the colorful plumage if he's the one supposed to be pursuing. But he shows up, the pea hens assess his colors and his body language, then decide whether to pass or not. That's how it works.

See if a girl likes what she sees, she'll make it easy on you. She'll come closer to you and stand or sit next to you, then start giving signals like playing with her hair or doing something like to signal that she's nearby and notices you. Now it's up to one of you (most likely you) to make the first move.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/19/16 03:58 AM

Had another little talk this evening, I gotta skedaddle and go cold turkey for a bit (sucks that I'm still not mature enough to balance my online addiction time, even with a sucky ISP).

I can't relate to much of the recent discussion because I've never casually dated, much less had causal sex. I guess that's an advantage (or not) of meeting in school, by the time you go out on your first formal date you pretty much already know each other from everyday socializing. Also, I think I may have gone to her house at least a dozen times before dating (unless visiting her with her family counts as dates).

I'm still cringing at some of my previous wording (or why I brought it up in the first place), but just know that *I* don't set the boundaries/limitations/rules/pace/assertion, I never have. Nor have I ever tried to push those boundaries, I just want to make her happy to be with me. If that's being whipped then I'm ok with it because I'm stilled married (yay!) and want for nothing... <now Mechanus cringes> smile

++++++++++

Again, I get the good ideas from SimHQ. Had I passed that "Rick Springfield" interstate billboard without remembering what Logan wrote about his wife enjoying the concert, I might have blown it off. And it was at Rick Springfield that I found out about "The Molly Ringwalds" which has become our favorite date night. thumbsup

I hope I've provided some good ideas myself, dinner and a movie are fine if that's your thing, but to me nothing beats live music (and do a little dancing with her for extra credit)!

So...I'm taking a break, I'll be back (although not so detailed personal life anymore, gonna cut that out now, hope I didn't offend anyone too much)...
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/19/16 05:15 AM

You've got more stamina in these things than me, for what it's worth. I would never make it that far.

I get the sense that Dart can train women and knows how to set the expectations with women, really flipping the script around on them, because that's what they attempt to do to us.

The way I look at it, in general, someone is always going to care more in the relationship than the other. That's the person who's in less control of it. Now there are women who prefer that, they want to make sure they are the shot callers, and that's what they feel comfortable with- having the power. And they will select the male partners who are ok with that.

Years ago when I was more naive, I dated one woman who I could sense seemed to be attempting to train me to be her monkey. To think like her, she wanted me to decorate my apartment the way she wanted, wanted me to 'service' her when she wanted. She never called me once, it was always me calling her first. If I never called her, we would never talk. She was attempting to train me to be the one to call her and to feel I needed her more than the other way around, and basically training me to be like a machine that exists for her benefit. I sensed that out, I stopped calling her for a day or two, I never heard from her again after all that.

That is a woman who wants the control and wanted me to feel like I had no power. Didn't care at all that I never called her again after we had been dating and all that.

That was one of the most cyborg-like women I've ever met, she had no interest, no passion for anything. Whenever I proposed that we do something or just brought up topics to talk about, all she said was: "Yes" "No" or "I suppose." That's all. I got the impression that she was behaving the way couples might behave in a passionless relationship after a long stretch, but she was doing this rather immediately. There was virtually no honeymoon phase, so to speak, it went right into the woman controls all phase immediately.

That was absolutely a women looking to land a guy to just be someone to provide for her protect her, give her what she wanted when she wanted it. She was very attractive by my standards at the time though, otherwise I would have ditched it sooner. That was a learning experience for me, that my real first encounter with "dance, monkey, dance." Her self esteem would have to be abysmal to need to do that.
Posted By: W-Molders

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/19/16 05:33 AM

HERES THE GOLDEN RULE TO KEEP FEMALES IN CHECK... LIVE FOR YOURSELF AND ANSWER TO NOBODY... STAY STRONG AND LET HER FOLLOW... BE NICE AND MONOGAMOUS AND COOPERATIVE WITH THEM BUT YOU MARCH TO YOUR OWN BEAT... MOST WILL FALL OFF THE WAYSIDE LOOKING FOR SOME OTHER GUY TO CHUMP... BUT YOU WILL FIND A FEMALE THAT LIKES WHO AND WHAT YOU ARE... STICK TO YOUR GUNS PEOPLE
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/19/16 06:02 AM

That is true- you look out for number one. That's hard for guys to take if they are romantic or have been heavily programmed to think like the movies or like with a sense of chivalry or something.

That's the irony- women are attracted to men who are selfish and look out for themselves and who are independent- that's the antithesis of clingy or needy. And really, we shouldn't be attracted to women who are too smothering and clingy, either, but it's especially true with our interests in women.

My theory on why this is so is that as a species, mankind would not progress if men stopped discovering and exploring and so forth if they put down their work and made women a full time preoccupation. So it's like the grand design favors males who don't put women as their number one priority. And that's why women are attracted to guys who demonstrate skills, interests, passions, proficiency in things in their own lives other than being dependent up their need to be with women. That's how it is. Worlds are discovered when men are independent and more cool towards women, otherwise, we'd still be stuck in some primitive stage.
Posted By: W-Molders

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/19/16 05:11 PM

the reason females like azzholes is because it gives off alpha male traits ... alpha males increased their and the offsprings survival.. females are biologically attracted to the men we hate...

how many times have you either thought our heard other people say 'what does she see in him'

she doesnt know what she sees... she 'feels' it..

biology is a #%&*$# ... you can can trick and take short cuts if you learn how to be a PUA..

PICK UP ARTIST.. when I learned how to be a PUA it worked.... it really works....

google how to be a pick up artist and you can cheat thousands of years of evolution and you dont need money or status to do it. ..... now KEEPING them is another story but at least you can dabble and have fun.

GOOD HUNTING
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/19/16 05:13 PM

This thread has been a very enjoyable read. smile
Posted By: PFunk

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/19/16 05:20 PM

And we wonder why we see these women clad in shorts and tube top screaming at the cops carting her 'bad boy' away in cuffs.

Women can be remarkably stupid about these sorts of things. Speaking as a 'nice guy' who married a 'nice girl' who got knocked up in high school by a 'bad boy', you'd be shocked at how much they appreciate the little things like holding down a job, staying out of jail, and not beating the living crap out of them.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/19/16 05:47 PM

Has anyone ever seen the film Circle of Iron?

It was a movie based on the philosophy of Bruce Lee, he was supposed to star in it before he died, so David Caradine took over Bruce Lee's role.

The chop socky is terrible and amateur because the actors in it were not really martial artists, but the point is less about that as Bruce Lee was trying to demonstrate the different views of an older Eastern vs. younger Western culture, and there's a profound statement in there about love and trying to hold on to it, killing it in the process. I recommend it if you are a fan of films, but also to get some of the messages in there.
Posted By: Dart

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/19/16 06:02 PM

Quote:
That's the irony- women are attracted to men who are selfish and look out for themselves and who are independent- that's the antithesis of clingy or needy. And really, we shouldn't be attracted to women who are too smothering and clingy, either, but it's especially true with our interests in women.


I find those things - being selfish and being independent - as being mutually exclusive. One can be both empathetic and independent - no need to teat women like trash in order to get them into bed (or to have a relationship, for that matter).

I've always been a WYSIWYG kind of guy; I'm fairly easy going, but not a push over. When I was single it was take-it-or-leave-it with women and I didn't pursue high maintenance women (overly aggressive or weepy) for that reason. Smart, strong women were more my speed, as they tended to have the same attitude of wanting the opposite sex without needing the opposite sex.

Plus my attitude was that if my batting average was .25 that it's a long statistic and will require many more attempts. I wasn't exactly the chick magnet, but I did alright....and it wasn't ever about putting notches in my belt. Most times I didn't actively go looking for sex, it just worked out that way.

Now that I'm married, some of the same rules apply. I am very appreciative of my wife and all she does - and have a profound respect for who she is. When she has a strong opinion or concern about something I pay strict attention to it; we don't always agree, but she knows I take her seriously. Mention the word "control" in the context of our relationship and one will get snorts. We don't control each other in the slightest. Influence, most definitely, and we have some clear ground rules that were established before we were married that still hold to this day.

The funny thing is that I told her pretty early on that I had no interest in dating her; my goal was courtship. Dating is the process of discovering all the things that one won't tolerate, while courtship is finding out if one doesn't have any of the disqualifying traits (while still having all the desirable ones). So topics like money and children come up pretty quickly, and are treated seriously.

My wife is the most intelligent person I've ever met, so I knew she was looking at me as a long term prospect as well once I brought up courtship. My formal proposal for marriage was no surprise, nor was the answer. So we sealed it with a formal ritual full of solemn vows taken just as seriously as they were given and it's been a helluva good time since.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/19/16 06:11 PM

This is how I see it- I don't treat women as trash, but even if they think I do, that's what turned them on.

You can turn 'hate' into 'love' so easily with women, because either one is an emotional spike, and that's what they thrive on. Like a way to do this is with a clever, backhanded compliment, the way they're doing it with each other all the time.

For instance.

"Do I look fat in this dress" Ah, this question, one that you cannot answer correctly, except, for this:

"Yeah, it makes you look fat, that's why I think you should take it off and let me see those beautiful breasts, baby."

There other ways of doing it to get them mad at you, then you transform that into: "I was only kidding, baby, just wanted to get a rise out of you, lighten up."

Their mindset is alien to us males, except perhaps to effiminate, gay males or something. But there is something to be said for creating a sense of tension, and that's what that is. They do it to when they start fights seemingly for no reason, it makes them feel.

In my opinion, emotionally they are rather flat, so strong feelings at the moment that spike them up is really what gets them turned on. Just watch women's daytime TV talk shows and they're not sweet and delicate at all, they look like different creatures. Oprah throws gifts at her audiences, and they all turn into these dumb savages.

Women are basically teenagers in my view. They mature faster than boys, then at around 16, 17, 18, that's where they stop maturing emotionally, until they hit menopause. Men on the other hand have a much greater capacity to keep maturing. They are slower, but deeper. Women are much more shallow.

I've had these discussions with women that I had no interest in, or I had no chance in hooking up with and I've got them to admit to this stuff. And then some of them have like sly grin I'd never seen them do before, as if they knew "Here's a guy who finally figured it all out." And some of them even propositioned me for sex right after that.
Posted By: Jayhawk

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/19/16 06:57 PM

Or: "It's not the dress that makes you look fat, it's the fat that makes you look fat." ready smile
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/19/16 07:11 PM

Notice that you'll never see a guy ask his wife/girfriend if he looks fat wearing a certain pair of jeans or pants.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 05/20/16 03:02 AM

By the way, I don't want to make it sound like I was a natural born misogynist, like a lot of guys, I figured
out things about them that I wasn't being told. As I gradually began to form a different picture of them
over time, like a lot of guys, I started losing my feelings for them in the way I had before. I always sensed
there was something weird- mainly because I was an outsider looking at relationships objectively, rather than being
involved in them myself. I wasn't the popular kid with women when I was younger, instead I found company
with older kids who were kind of misfits, and I watched what happened with them, but also movies and music
and things like this kind of warped my thought process, and made me have something in the back of my mind
that made me think someday this will be different and so forth.

Well, I don't smile around women much, and I can kind of sense a few other guys who don't smile, and I recognize it- these are the guys who have figured out the 'scam' that love is, certainly not the ideal picture. And isn't ideal for women, either- I think they actually have it worse. Their relationships with one another are
often paper thin and quite catty, and that's the unhappy situation for many of them. And they too can get these
ideas about love that they're attracted to rather than what it is, especially when their biology doesn't quite
agree with that. Maybe the images in pop culture are necessary to give people hope to look forward to. Again, funny thing is, as I act the way I want to act around women, I don't hold back, and I say what's on my mind, that brought me more attention from them than trying to appreciate and respect them did.

My weakness is still seeing a woman cry, I detest it. But I also know enough now to know that women
are capable of turning that on and off like a tap when they want to get their way. Is it evil that they are
capable of doing that and they use that? I don't know, but that's kind of insinuated into the design and
how they can get men to do what they want.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Why We're Probably Living In An Alien Video Game - 06/06/16 09:48 PM

The genius of Rod Serling, he knew what a lot of males don't seem to either figure out or don't want to accept:



People say that women are such a mystery, they really aren't when you get past their deception that either they or society has made up about them. Those of you who 'get it' are the ones who understand what brooding, dark characters like Nietzsche and Serling and what all the bad boys feel as instinct already. The Han Solos and the James Deans and the other characters who neither submit to the alpha-male hierarchy nor seek its protection per se, but only if it benefits them. These are the mysterious lone wolves who come and go as they please, and form their own paths and tribes and create their own worlds- women have responded in research to show a sexual preference for these types of males who demonstrate dark, brooding, independent, passionate characteristics.


Posted By: Ssnake

Re: Why We're Probably Living In An Alien Video Game - 06/07/16 06:04 AM

You really only have that single topic, do you?
No matter how a thread starts, you always find a way to bend it towards "Mechanus' lecture on how other boys should meet girls". It's a bit tiring, frankly.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Why We're Probably Living In An Alien Video Game - 06/07/16 07:26 AM

It's not the only thing, but I do admit I think it's very relevant if people want to talk about existential matters- that is an important component of it. The species has evolved because these things are going on. This is the heart of it, if this design however or whatever you think is designing it has made it this way whether it's a simulation or not, the tinkering which apparently is in the design experimenting the way it does- nothing is more to the point than the way the species in this design replicates itself in that process. And mainly because so many males are in the dark about it, females know the score.

There is a discussion going on now that in the future, the males may go virtually extinct, the females having less need for them are doing what they can really to suppress the existence of males, perhaps the goal is asexual reproduction, if possible. It's really a fact that in the animal kingdom, the females, not the males, determine the conditions of the family, and by extension the tribe, and society at large- through the males that they select as leaders, doers, and simply partners to procreate with. When computers and machines replace men's labor, and women begin to do it as well in the labor force, men's worth plummets.

I think that's highly relevant, because generally, the female of the species sees the male as a potential threat, which he can be if he's not providing some use, he's a nuisance in the best case, and a threat at the worst. That's how females think of males, males consistently rank women more attractive than women rank them, in surveys it's shown that males overrate themselves in how they think their female friends view them, and I see a lot of trends pointing to an agenda which seeks to minimize males in society. Men find women much more attractive than the other way around.

Totally relevant, to overlook this I think is quite strange, frankly.





Posted By: QuantumPeep

Re: Why We're Probably Living In An Alien Video Game - 06/07/16 10:12 AM

Good lord, the therapist is in da house...again...and again....and again. What SSnake said!

You really have interesting stuff to contribute at times, but for the love of god, can you please stop relating everything to women?!

Comments were moved from the alien Video game thread, in case anyone is wondering
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Why We're Probably Living In An Alien Video Game - 06/07/16 10:18 PM

Well I make the case in support of Briffault's Law:

Quote:
The female, not the male, determines all the conditions of the animal family. Where the female can derive no benefit from association with the male, no such association takes place


Understand it is the female of the species which chooses the males to reproduce with and sets the conditions of the social associations. That's why I bring this up repeatedly, society is constructed by females through their association with males.

The male sex drive is generally stronger than the female, so the female takes advantage of that- either consciously or subconsciously as part of the long term mating and evolutionary 'strategy'

I'm sure you've all heard the quote- all of history is really just an attempt at impressing the opposite sex and so forth. Subconsciously, that's what men are doing with women ever in mind when they procure resources and territory and build things and whatnot.

Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Why We're Probably Living In An Alien Video Game - 06/07/16 11:05 PM

So if you can imagine our species in its development, some pretty harsh truths would take place in the wild. The females probably were a lot more feral, they had to be prepared to abandon or even kill offspring that weren't going to make it or they couldn't feed or take care of, likewise, the lives of males could come and go at a whim, so to get too attached to a male when his life could end at any time was not a good idea. And that's thousands of years of evolution encoded into the female, she's different intellectually and emotionally than the male.

Read my first post in the 'Relationships' thread:


http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4245650/1/Observations_and_advice_on_rel

Female selection routine fundamentally looks at those 'dark' traits that select men posses as sexy, that is to say, those they want to mate with on a primitive level (but not necessarily those for good relationships). The alpha males provide the genetic donors, the beta males provide the resources and security, the nice guys- the guys females take advantage of and manipulate.

This is wired into our species more or less. So like wild animals like lions, the females are just as nasty as the males, they're more physically powerful than our females, but mentally and emotionally our females our females are capable of suddenly taking men to the cleaners and suing the hell out of them, never mind years of fidelity and being together. Men generally don't attempt to financially decimate a woman the way they can do those things. If you've ever seen the movie The War of the Roses, they make that case perfect what happens when men even attempt to go up against the female capacity for revenge and ruthlessness.

Why so ruthless? When she perceives herself stronger than her male partner, the hypergamy instinct inside of her starts to think she 'bet' on the wrong male- the male who puts up with her demands and gives into everything her heart desires. He ceases to turn her on sexually and appears to be lower status than her at that point, she resents him. Multiply that over countless times over the ages to understand our species evolving.

I've seen the most outwardly sweetest girls drop the facade after getting to know them, and seeing that all that surface stuff is the hook to get me attracted to them and to care for them, then the female nature starts to show you what it really is. Once the male starts making concessions because his feelings are attached, they turn into something different than the fairy tales make them look like the pure ones.

So I say to men, if you have any love and respect for women, then it is your duty to give them what they actually want- not to be placed on a pedestal above you. This can be a tall order, because in relationships, they can keep at it and don't give up with the nagging and nit picking and general moodswings and constant tests they fling at you.


Posted By: TerribleTwo

For those who forgot. - 06/21/16 10:48 AM

Overly attached girlfriend needs to be seen every few years.

Posted By: MarkG

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/21/16 02:23 PM

The problem with marrying the first girl you date (assuming for life) is that you never get to experience the wonderful variety of girls/women, including the rare creepy psycho nutjob. Maybe not so pleasant in the moment but I'm sure the memories become very comical over time, especially when swapping female horror stories with your buds. You can relate and you get to say, "Been there, done that." I feel like I missed out. sigh
Posted By: Chucky

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/21/16 02:32 PM

My last serious relationship was with a psycho.I didn't know she drank like she did until it was too late.Total train-wreck. That was over 10 years ago.

MGTOW forever!
Posted By: WileECoyote

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/21/16 02:35 PM

Ok, TerribleTwo, spill it out, why did you recall this video exactly? wink
Posted By: Ajay

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/21/16 02:46 PM

Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/21/16 02:51 PM

Originally Posted By: MarkG
The problem with marrying the first girl you date (assuming for life) is that you never get to experience the wonderful variety of girls/women, including the rare creepy psycho nutjob. Maybe not so pleasant in the moment but I'm sure the memories become very comical over time, especially when swapping female horror stories with your buds. You can relate and you get to say, "Been there, done that." I feel like I missed out. sigh


I only had one serious girlfriend before I met my wife, we dated for 3 years. I dated maybe 2 or 3 others. All of it was a slog at best and a nightmare at worst. I wish I'd had more good dates before I met my wife, but my track record was pointing at "everlasting torment" so...
I'm not sorry at all.




The Jedi Master
Posted By: Chucky

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/21/16 03:04 PM

Thanks Ajay hahaha
Posted By: MarkG

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/21/16 04:19 PM

Try living with your elderly mother and 5 months and counting menopausal wife, who have no problem being a tag team opponent. The solution is really simple though (EDIT: other than living outside like my father does):

1. Your own space, man cave office bedroom – no women allowed unless in workout clothes (including baggy pajamas, apparently) or lingerie.

2. Headphones w/MP3 player. This one is most important because you can be anywhere in your house and not hear a damn thing except your tunes! tuner biggrin
Posted By: Dart

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/21/16 04:35 PM

If one doesn't have at least one scar from dating a Crazy Chick, one didn't do dating right.

If one is over the age of 30 and still dating Crazy Chicks, one is doing dating wrong.
Posted By: Bohemond

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/21/16 06:49 PM

Tru dat, Dart!!
Posted By: kludger

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/21/16 06:57 PM

Yeah if you don't date the crazy chicks first, you don't have as good a perspective to appreciate the good one when you find her.

The crazy chick memories are also good motivation to put the work in with the good one to overcome the rocky patches that life throws at you if you stay together for a long time.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/21/16 10:08 PM

All women are 'crazy' opportunistic solipsistic creatures because they had to be- imagine in pre-civilized cultures how females have lots of kids because many don't survive, having to make the decision to abandon or kill the ones who wouldn't make it. Imagine the males who come and go out of their lives, abandoning them or getting themselves killed. Furthermore, imagine countless times a tribe or group invades and wipes out the men of another group, then take all the women for war brides and sex slaves and things like this, and women had to change loyalties, abandon attachments just like that on a whim. Women evolved differently than men, who have more idealistic notions about women making for a soul mate and partner at home.

In order that one gender’s sexual strategy to succeed, the other gender must compromise or abandon its own, that is to say, the sexes are attracted to different aspects of the other, one must give way or no association takes place at all. For example, women are inherently the more solipsistic of the two sexes- her physical attractiveness is virtually the sole criterion that attracts a man (I'm not talking about relationship bonding, I just mean initial attraction which brings the two together in the first place), whereas Nature has put it in man to be attracted to that physical appearance. That's why women spend more time self absorbed rather than impressed by others outside of themselves (or why they aren't as concerned with how handsome a man is compared to other characteristics), it doesn't work if both sexes are equally solipsistic, one has to be the one who attracts and one has to be the one who is the attracted. Mutual attraction for the same reasons is not how it works.

The flip side of this is men, not per se through their physical appearance but through their status, or at least the appearance of their status attracts women- so men attract women when they are career driven, or have engaging hobbies or something like this.

This is how it's been going on in the history of our species, the only thing that changed are the messages deluding us about how it works and hiding it from plain sight. We tell ourselves otherwise because we like to have these quaint ideas about romance, then paint the 'few' women who don't conform to these ideas as the bad apples or the crazy ones- they are all the same to some extent, just as to some extent men all behave a certain way as well.

I know cognitively wealth and/or social status can turn women on sexually, I don't know what it's like to actually experience something like that, I am not wired the way women are.

If you think in the evolution or our species, it's not hard to see why this is: in order for women to have children in pre-civilization, they simply can't do it alone. They would not survive on their own getting through pregnancy and taking care of themselves at the same time, they need help from others. So, through the evolution of our species, Nature has devised it so that males are attracted to these women so that they can provide for them (again, it doesn't work in the reverse- women are not attracted to men for the same reasons), hence, that explains the solipsistic nature of women. They live life and go through it differently- there's always an ample supply of males lining up for access to her, always an entourage of male orbiters waiting around, offering help or being friendly waiting for their chance with the woman- because she's good looking, the men don't do that with women they aren't really attracted to.

What the women are really turned on a primitive level is that ever elusive, unattainable, detached, mysterious alpha male. All the others are the beta male orbiters that they give their attention and resources to in exchange for sexual access to her from time to time, i.e., the beta males are the relationship guys who provide the resources and the home and security, the alpha males are the ones they want to slip away with and have tawdry affairs with, then return back to the beta males again. Think the difference between Luke Skywalker and Han Solo, respectively.


To be fair, they think men are crazy in the way they behave: men are much more horny all the time in ways women won't understand, they have sex on the brain a lot more of the time. I read something about a female body builder whose testosterone levels were raised and that made her more randy like men, and she said: "I can't understand how you men can live like this all the time."
Posted By: LB4LB

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/22/16 12:46 AM

Originally Posted By: Dart
If one doesn't have at least one scar from dating a Crazy Chick, one didn't do dating right.

If one is over the age of 30 and still dating Crazy Chicks, one is doing dating wrong.


Very true. I have friends who are dating women who have crazy adult aged daughters. The apple doesn't usually fall far from the tree. I do remember a few crazy girls from my youth. Got a couple of scars.
Posted By: LB4LB

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/22/16 12:49 AM

Originally Posted By: MarkG
Try living with your elderly mother and 5 months and counting menopausal wife, who have no problem being a tag team opponent. The solution is really simple though (EDIT: other than living outside like my father does):

1. Your own space, man cave office bedroom – no women allowed unless in workout clothes (including baggy pajamas, apparently) or lingerie.

2. Headphones w/MP3 player. This one is most important because you can be anywhere in your house and not hear a damn thing except your tunes! tuner biggrin


My brother used to say the secret to a successful marriage is a detached garage. If they actually have to go outside to get to you, they will bother you less.
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/22/16 01:07 AM

If those scars from dating crazy women occurred during sex, is that necessarily a bad thing? smile
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/22/16 01:18 AM

Barring STDs or the girl trying to trap a man with a pregnancy, it's not a bad thing except for the awful things girls can do- they can assent to sex and then claim rape after, it happens more than people think or admit. She can gossip about the guy to other women, word spreads about the guy among his social group he's not aware of them gossiping about. We really have no idea what others are saying about us behind our backs- especially women. They can be making up all kinds of stuff, like how lousy you are in bed, or what a weak man you are or what have you, who knows. Sometimes another female friend of mine would tell me what other women gossip about that spreads around that they don't say to your face, and it's horrible. Men can do this too, call the girls they've slept with sluts and this sort of thing, but it generally stays with the guys as guy humor that they bond over, males aren't out to destroy females socially the way women actually enjoy doing that to others. That's why I tend to get in and out of situations with women I don't know to keep that down to a minimum.

The best advice I can give in relationships, and I'll be summary: get involved with women you like, but aren't crazy head over heels in love with. That's the most stable balance I can offer. When men are absolutely crazy over the girl, they won't act right- their feelings will make them basically worship the woman, put her up on a pedestal above him, put himself out for her, just like the storybook prince- and the irony is that is the opposite of what turns women on. Soon after that, she'll perceive herself as higher status than her partner who is putting so much effort into her, it kills attraction in them, it's as repellent to them like daylight is to Dracula.

Women you're not really crazy about, you don't act like you're crazy about- and that appeals to their hypergamy, because they perceive you as higher status, and it's in their nature to want to want to nurture your love out of you to them like a seed to a plant, not get the plant upfront like that. They are wired to like that challenge. Guys who throw themselves at women are not a challenge, they give it all away, they perceive these guys as lower status. Something to work for is worth having, something that is easy to obtain and throws itself at you is cheap.

I've probably known maybe one guy who was in totally in love, but had the stamina and discipline not to act like he was in love, and that's probably what kept her glued to him as long as it did (she was a model, quite attractive to his standards, he wasn't rich or handsome, just really playing it cool as if she wasn't all that- he did that for years, I'm not sure how that eventually turned out or how long he could keep that act going).
Posted By: MarkG

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/22/16 02:19 AM

Originally Posted By: Mechanus
The best advice I can give in relationships, and I'll be summary: get involved with women you like, but aren't crazy head over heels in love with. That's the most stable balance I can offer. When men are absolutely crazy over the girl, they won't act right- their feelings will make them basically worship the woman, put her up on a pedestal above him, put himself out for her, just like the storybook prince- and the irony is that is the opposite of what turns women on. Soon after that, she'll perceive herself as higher status than her partner who is putting so much effort into her, it kills attraction in them, it's as repellent to them like daylight is to Dracula.


If you aren't crazy head over heels in love with someone then what's the point of having a relationship? Here's what you do, find a woman who *deserves* to be put on that pedestal (I'm sure a lot of fathers here will agree, I do it for different reasons).

Yes Mechanus, some women have *earned* that pedestal many times over, if you find one like this then try to recognize that fact before it's too late (hopefully she'll have lots of patience with you). It won't turn her off and if you take it too far she'll tell you.

Of course I'm talking long term relationships, as always.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/22/16 02:30 AM

I with I could tell you otherwise, but that's not how it works. Men and women are not attracted to each other the same way. Men have to accept this, or they're living in a cloud of some sort.

Women love you, but it's in their way, not yours- not the way you love them. If we weren't products of the 20th Century narrative, you would think much differently than you do about this. Quite simply, we've been programmed with notions that are quite off the mark, i.e., the way it really happens don't seem very romantic to us- therefore, what's wrong isn't the romantic narrative, it must be the behavior that's wrong, chalk it up to a few bad individuals rather than the narrative being the incorrect story how this all works.

If you think that women love us the way we love them, that doesn't work- otherwise, they would just love women, too, for the same reasons, right? (or we would love men). So that right there should tell you something.

Have you ever noticed this dynamic in your life, I don't how much you've dated, but it looks like this: the women you might have liked a lot or were attracted to didn't so much like you as much, and the ones who liked you were more off your radar. The reason why is the one who cares less 'wins'- the one who cares less is perceived by the other as the catch. With women that is especially pronounced in their sorting formulas.

It's weird, because for some bizarre reason, I remember becoming attracted to some girls who were considered far less attractive than the ones who liked me, and those less attractive girls had all the options- and for those reasons could act and behave in any nasty way they wanted, and I would put up with it. Meanwhile, the attractive girls who liked me would go out of their way for me, and to me it was "meh" . That really is the phenomenon at work, but it's more pronounced now more than ever in favor of women.

With women in the work force almost on par with most men in their peer group, with men's jobs being replaced or automated by computers, with men not being in short supply and with a healthy mortality rate, men are losing their collective status, while women on the other hand are becoming increasingly more narcissistic, raised to believe that they can do not only everything that men can do, but are more attractive, on top of that, and it shows. In places like Silicon Valley where men outnumber women, even the less attractive girls are starting to have lots of attitude like they are very attractive and deserve the very high status males. I wouldn't buy stock in men until something drastically shifts the other way again.

Rather than the romantic narrative we've been conditioned to believe, it probably works more according to supply/demand principles. Not romantic, sure, but the truth doesn't necessarily have to be something we like.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/22/16 03:06 AM

As far as the point of relationships, I suspect that it's nature's design to propagate the species, not concerned with what happens to individuals, that's the point. The feelings you have aren't a choice- you have them whether you want them or not. That seems to be the scheme of sorts, whether you want it or not you have this thing nagging at you making you want to be with a woman you become attached to you want and take care of her. Her agenda is to make sure to attract the right male for her and her offspring. The point is that it's the way life reproduces itself, puts these chemicals in us which makes us bond long enough to have children and raise them to a certain age, that's about the time it takes for the infatuation phase to wear off- long to enough to reproduce and give the offspring a healthy chance. After that, it's not per se necessary to even stay with the same women, the species reproduces more if the man goes off and impregnates others rather than stays anchored to one woman over his lifetime.

The narrative on top of that written by poets and stuff making it sound better than that- that's what it may be high time to question.
Posted By: oldgrognard

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/22/16 03:14 AM

Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack. - General George S. Patton.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/22/16 03:28 AM

But I stress this too, the positives about recognizing all of this for what it is- once that's done, it's much more empowering. When you figure out women, you really start to figure out human behavior across the board, that's what it comes down to, understand how much men's behavior consciously or subconsciously is tethered to women, how much the sexes behave really because of one another, even in seemingly unrelated ways. Men today probably do a lot, like discover things, accumulate wealth and resources, build things owing to their primitive instincts to attract women. That's probably what is guiding the human species like it does. From building huts to space stations, all to build worlds to impress the opposite sex is in our DNA.

When I started viewing women much differently than I did before, something profound happened- virtually overnight, women started showing more interest in me than they ever did before. Something in my body language and attitude was intriguing to them at this point, and I really do see it as an advantage, not a disadvantage.
Posted By: VF9_Longbow

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/22/16 01:25 PM

Originally Posted By: oldgrognard
Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack. - General George S. Patton.


hehhehh. I like this quote.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/22/16 03:22 PM

And to be sure, there are men simply chalk what I'm saying is cynical or a bad attitude, it's not- I don't say the things I say because I'm cynical or have a bad attitude. It is what is, men have to be deprogrammed from probably the biggest lie that there is if they want to know the truth about their attraction to women and vice versa. It's not any more cynical to point out what men find attractive about women's physical beauty, it is what it is.

It's likely that it's shocking for most men to confirm that there is something about women that doesn't seem 'quite right' based on the way that they're raised and conditioned to believe- because why didn't their parents or other trusted people raise them tell them differently? Why didn't the movies and the fairy tales tell them differently, why is everyone misleading them?

Love is chemical, that is shown by science. They've shown this in a species such as the vole, which pair bonds for life, that simply denying the chemicals responsible for the behavior changes the behavior of the vole:

http://knowingneurons.com/2013/02/13/why-prairie-voles-fall-in-love-a-chemical-romance/

It's true for us as well, I suppose it's our vanity and vulnerability which doesn't want to believe this, we of course believe something entirely different, and it calls into question our own existence and humanity to unplug from this narrative and realize the tremendous lie we've been told.

I'm not cynical, I'd wave my magic wand if I could to make everyone happy as they want it if it's the story book version they'd prefer. It's just not that way.

Posted By: LukeFF

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/22/16 05:14 PM

Originally Posted By: oldgrognard
Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack. - General George S. Patton.


Amen

Oh, and on that note: I got engaged last week, and the two of us couldn't be happier. We've both waited a long time for the right person to come along, but we are glad we did not give up and lose hope along the way.
Posted By: LB4LB

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/22/16 05:33 PM

Great song about looking for a cynical girl.

Posted By: Mechanus

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/22/16 06:39 PM

Well men are attracted to women who look about as pretty as another man does, that happens all the time, right? It's not cynical to point out what men are attracted to about women, that's taken for granted, everyone knows this.

It's not cynical to explain how women are wired if that is the truth. My motivation isn't cynical- I'm not explaining things because I wish to make people feel bad about themselves, but to help them understand, this is where the translation isn't synching up.

Women are not attracted the way men are attracted, and despite what the pop psychologists and relationship experts say about couples and trying to reconnect them when the passion falls out, it does not work like that.

Attraction is not a choice. You cannot cajole it or bargain it or obligate it the way the Dr. Phils think you can. All that education and yet they don't grasp that love at its basic causes is chemical (or they know it and don't want to admit it)- you may have heard the analogy that love is like a drug in music or whatnot, because it is, it behaves the same way as a chemical addiction. The bonding hormones have been identified and described as to how they work. Maybe it's man's curse that he is so smart so as to discover these things, it ruins the 'magic,' as it were.

The way men and women feel attraction is quite different. You just don't see handsome men lining up to date or marry some rich old crone the way attractive women can do. You don't see women visiting prostitutes or as interested in Pr0n the way men are. When Playgirl magazine came out, the publishers realized immediately that women weren't the customer base, they weren't interested in looking at naked men the way men like to look at Playmate Centerfolds. It was the homosexual men who were the customers. Men and women are different, the strange thing is the way it's hiding in plain sight, and it's because of the wrong messages permeating society about how it works which obscures it.

So I say again, it's not about being cynical, because for men there is hope. It's actually women who are in a sadder state than men, as both sexes tend to objectify the other, that is, they have an ideal of the other in mind rather than the way they really are, women's ideals are far more schizophrenic and unfulfilled, their idea of a perfect guy in the end doesn't satisfy them, a perfect guy doesn't offer the mystery and excitement they crave, he's already figured out and the women are a mess when they realize it because of how they're wired. A perfect guy it turns out is boring, he's not chaotic like a woman's psychology.

Finally, women's entire validation comes from one thing: their ability to attract men. And that is easy to short circuit, that's why you often see these unattractive, lame guys with these hot women, and you may think: "What is the problem here."

A is male

B is an average looking female

C is a very attractive female

A treats C the exact same as B, he is neither overly impressed nor nervous around either, he is comfortable interacting with and charming both as if they look exactly the same.

This puts C in a tailspin, her validation comes entirely from the external source- the man's behavior according to how attractive he thinks she is. If he doesn't put her up a on pedestal because of her looks, she's got nothing, and she knows it. Her attraction level rises substantially for A.




Posted By: CyBerkut

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/22/16 07:16 PM

Originally Posted By: LukeFF
Originally Posted By: oldgrognard
Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack. - General George S. Patton.


Amen

Oh, and on that note: I got engaged last week, and the two of us couldn't be happier. We've both waited a long time for the right person to come along, but we are glad we did not give up and lose hope along the way.


Congratulations Luke! It sounds like both of you were smart about it. Best wishes to you and yours! smile
Posted By: CyBerkut

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/22/16 08:23 PM

Originally Posted By: Mechanus
Finally, women's entire validation comes from one thing: their ability to attract men.


Yeah, there's no cynicism there... rolleyes

I see you're still fond of making such overly broad statements. That is where, at least in part, your credibility is diminished in the eyes of some people here.

Human beings are not merely sexual beings. They can value other aspects of life, and some can even make decisions / commitments without being totally dominated by the hormones/chemicals that happen to be coursing through their body at a given moment.

Sexual attraction obviously plays a big part in most couples' bonding, but a lot of people with their heads screwed on right take additional factors into consideration before making commitments. It takes more than a chemical change in a human brain at age 20 something (or whatever) to keep a couple happily together into their 60's (or later).

I think the english language does us a disservice in wrapping up multiple aspects of love into that single word. Ancient Greek had multiple words (eg. eros, philia, agape, pragma, ludus, philautia )to more accurately convey the different types of love. Too much focus upon just two or three of those makes for a very shallow person, and poor prospects for a lifetime of happiness.

Mechanus, you can know your own experiences, and you can choose to believe whichever of the things you have been told or read. But you can't know everyone else's experiences.

Some of us have lived, or know other people, who do not match the sweeping statements you sometimes make. Now you could take the attitude/position that they are wrong and you know better (and I think it is safe to say that you have in the past)... but I submit that it would be cynical to do so.
Posted By: RSColonel_131st

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/22/16 09:13 PM

Originally Posted By: LukeFF
Originally Posted By: oldgrognard
Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack. - General George S. Patton.


Amen

Oh, and on that note: I got engaged last week, and the two of us couldn't be happier. We've both waited a long time for the right person to come along, but we are glad we did not give up and lose hope along the way.


Duuuuude! Congrats!

Pictures required biggrin
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/22/16 09:25 PM

Originally Posted By: CyBerkut
Originally Posted By: Mechanus
Finally, women's entire validation comes from one thing: their ability to attract men.


Yeah, there's no cynicism there... rolleyes

I see you're still fond of making such overly broad statements. That is where, at least in part, your credibility is diminished in the eyes of some people here.


No, it's that men think of women still in different terms and have a hard time giving this up. It's like saying it's overly broad that men aret attracted to women's beauty, therefore, discard the notion that men are attracted to female beauty. Too broad a statement.

It's likely that the sexes evolved in this way: the males are attracted to the fertile, youthful looks of females, it's called neoteny. Men usually do not report finding old looking women more attractive. Female sexual strategy however doesn't work the same way, that's why you can see younger women paired with older, more powerful or resourceful men.

To say that all men or all women aren't like this is missing the point: all men and women are like this to an extent, it's just a matter of how they perceive their own value and what they think their value 'buys' them. If I have low self esteem or don't view myself as a catch, then the tendency is I will think more attractive women are out of my league, and I may look for other characteristics, for example. I may distrust the more attractive women and my ability to keep one from wandering. That is also shown in experiments in human mate selection, I'm not making this up.

I'll argue the real cynicism is the denial of all this- if anything keeps people in the dark and in ignorance, it's the attempt to addle people with the romantic narrative, that's the thing that shackles people to relationships that go bad or makes people unhappy, thinking that they've missed out on things granted to others.

I'm not making up the chemical basis for attraction, again, this has all been identified. The made up thing, the questionable thing is the storybook narrative.
Posted By: RSColonel_131st

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/22/16 09:44 PM

I wonder, page after page, why you are on such a mission to prove to everyone else (or, as you might put it "liberate everyone else from") the thought that your ideas about partner selection are even remotely valid.

I mean, let's assume you really found the holy grail. You, one of the 1% that actually understand how women work. You've got it all figured out and could write a book about it (in fact one might argue you already have... here.)

Why then aren't you either happily married (if you believe in monogamy), or living like Hugh Hefner in a mansion bought for with the money of your beautiful spoiled-rich hotel heiresses (plural intended)? Why would someone who really has females figured out even have the time to post on an internet message board dedicated to flight sims and general computer games? Don't you have a model waiting for you, or two?

Because you see: the thing that puts your whole "presence" here on feets of clay is precisely the way you run about trying to convince everyone else of your theories, trying to invalidate any other guy's notion voiced here on the board about how relationships work.

We know we've members here who by all outside apperance live a very happy marriage. OG, Dart, Mark come to mind as they share most about their private life, but there are plenty more. Thing is, I see none of them going round and round trying to convince you or me that their approach to dating somehow was the "way of the superior male". Somehow they just don't feel the urge.


Want to know what I believe? I think deep down you are a hellish insecure boy. You want either of two things to happen by posting here: That someone comes along who restores back your faith in women (who quite obviously did something very cruel to you) and gives you back the ability to believe in a relationship between man and woman which is NOT based on transaction of intangible goods. Or that someone comes along and confirms everything you say, to the letter, so you while you would still be unhappy about the state of your affairs you'd at least have the feeling that no one else has found a better way and it's not your fault.


Now, everyone's free to use the message boards of this planet for his personal self-help session, but the problem with your approach is that you are installing things into people less secure in their experiences than the "old crowd" here. Bad things. Negative, cynical beliefs. I do actually wonder how you are set for real-life friends, because that atidude is toxic and not likely to have guys hang out with you who are clean in their own spirit.

And believe me, admits all the criticism you caught from me the past month there really is a part left that wants to help you, and I think others here are doing the same even if subconcious. But you aren't open and listening, which is why you are still locked in a very ugly world with very ugly rules. I truly hope you find a way out of the maze in your head.
Posted By: Wireman

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/22/16 10:01 PM

Good luck.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/22/16 10:02 PM

Originally Posted By: RSColonel_131st
I wonder, page after page, why you are on such a mission to prove to everyone else (or, as you might put it "liberate everyone else from") the thought that your ideas about partner selection are even remotely valid.

I mean, let's assume you really found the holy grail.

Why then aren't you either happily married


Because of the above- because I wouldn't survive in marriage. But keep in mind this: I'm not the only one. It's just not as common that men cross that line that I've explained.

I've explained often why I talk about this, I'll do it again: the topic is interesting to me. And there is an interest in me to explain what I've found. It would be the same thing with any of you and topic of interest and talk about it.

You can insult me as you seem to be fond of doing, it changes nothing about what I've said. I'm in it for the topic itself and to help people who want to understand things if it seemed like a mystery to them before. That is my motivation as I've said.

The thing that I think is wrong that I often hear men say is that women are a mystery- they actually aren't so mysterious, the female mystique is only because men often just don't want to hear about it. They're too perfect in men's eyes, except for the few bad apples, not understanding what women as a whole are all about.

If women are playing games, they run hot and cold, they're not being mysterious. If they seem unpredictable and send mixed messages, it's because the man is doing something wrong- when they want to take you to bed, they don't communicate mixed signals. It's men's egos that want to believe otherwise, men often want to believe the women are just more mysterious rather than the way they are really behaving in the ways the do because of the imperative of female mate selection. Men want to believe of course that all the time they invest should pay off like the narrative tells them, only then to see the unexplained mystery of women come and and then go or change behavior, chalk it up to feminine mystique, and then forget about it. That's why I am here explaining what I do. It's men's ego which don't want to be bruised and which wants to believe that women are attracted to them in the same way they are attracted to women for what they are which gets in the way of seeing women for what they are. Like I said, I am actually genuinely interested in the discussion, which for me of course is a debate because I realize many men aren't ready yet to see it the way it's explained.






Posted By: oldgrognard

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/22/16 11:00 PM


Like RSColonel, I have some consternation that someone might actually believe the misogonistic advice you are giving. Do you think we are 10 year old boys who need to be told about females ? You lecture us like we are in some reeducation camp and have to have our reality changed to yours.

If you think you are being insulted, you bring it on yourself. As said, some people were actually trying to help you.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/22/16 11:22 PM

Why should they? I don't know to be honest if they should or not. I'm saying what I say and it's for them to decide. Just ignore what I'm saying if what I'm saying sounds like 2 + 2 = 9. No harm no foul, right?

One part of me says they shouldn't believe me- if they honestly feel more comfortable with trends are being what they are, then it's not really anything I can do for them, they would rather not know.

My final word on this is that the divorce rates being what they are and the way they favor women should make men feel uncomfortable, and that those things are the result of society favoring women, but you think I am the misogynist. Most men consciously or subconsciously would do things like shield a women they don't know with their own bodies before they would a man, help a woman out in distress before a man, or give up their seat to a woman on a lifeboat so they go down with the ship before they would other men. It's not likely those same women would do the same for us. Consciously and subconsciously, most men are viewed by other men and by women as disposable utilities, basically when a man cannot do something or provide someone with some service, he is gone from society, it doesn't want him. He's no use, unlike an attractive woman placed in the same situation can coast- and men as a whole don't do a whole lot to really do anything to help themselves or each other to balance it out, they're just happy to get female validation. I think this is all subconsciously the way we're wired and it's part of human behavior and our evolution, and we see the practical results of it.

I've given people the choice, believe one thing or the other, I don't want to force people. Nothing I say here sounds interesting or plausible- fine, I won't say it any longer. Good luck then.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/22/16 11:35 PM

What I'm about to say may apply to Mechanus, maybe not...

I've been wondering why I post allot of the stuff I do here (especially over the last 3 or 4 years), mainly why started getting personal since 2009/10. I signed on late 2003 and have thousands of posts about flight sims (believe it or not), revealing very little if anything about my personal life. This really changed around 2012/13, IIRC.

I did the online self-diagnostic research and what I came up with was low self-esteem/seeks validation. Hard to accept because I've made much progress in many aspects of my life the past few years, but I must feel like it's not enough. Even with successful weight loss (although I still have a ways to go) I still feel like the fat guy who dressed and played the typical fat guy role at family reunions (fat guys might know what I'm talking about).

It could also be a touch of mid-life crisis (how old are you Mechanus?), the weaker male mind/ego who feels they haven't lived up to their full potential, maybe have some regrets and wishing they could relive parts of their life for the better.

I dunno, I'm not a psychiatrist. smile
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/22/16 11:51 PM

I'm in my forties, I'm told I look I look like I'm in my late 20s, but I insist it's not my looks, it's my attitude now. I have far more success with women now than I did when I was younger, and the irony is people think I am a misogynist or dysfunctional- well if I am, that says something about women, because I am more successful with them now by a factor of a 100 then I was when I was probably more like what some people here would think I should be like.

I personally am not one who expresses himself with small talk. That's one of my failings for some people is that I don't grasp it. The deeper the topic it is, the more uncomfortable it may be if it arrives at something important to talk about is what I prefer. Maybe I have trouble understanding that not everyone wants that.
Posted By: RSColonel_131st

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/23/16 12:19 AM

Originally Posted By: Mechanus
I'm in it for the topic itself and to help people who want to understand things if it seemed like a mystery to them before. That is my motivation as I've said.


Laudable motivation, but I can't really recall anyone here ever asking you specifically about relationship advice. "To help people" would mean explaining things to those who are confused and asking for clarifications. Do we appear confused to you?

So yeah, maybe give it a rest unless someone really asks for specific advice. Even then there are whole boards on this magical internet thing devoted to the topic (and populated by people who think a lot more like you). I've been there, I've learned some things, had to hard unlearn some others. Your view on women and the world they live in is pretty toxic either way you turn it - you might not realize it but that kind of "advice" can be harmful.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/23/16 12:32 AM

I am stopping, it's just becoming a drag.

But you do find it more intriguing than you admit- despite what you think of my character and despite what you think I say is toxic (which I disagree), you can't stop reading it. You say I'm say I'm so awful yet you can't turn away, which means you're reading it in order to comment on it - why? You do find enough merit to do that. Some of what I'm saying probably does make a little sense in order for that to happen, otherwise you just ignore it. I ignore threads and posts that I don't find interesting, so at least consider that as bad as I seem to you (which is strange to me- why is the truth bad?), you got something out of it, because I do too, believe it or not.


Posted By: CyBerkut

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/23/16 12:54 AM

Originally Posted By: Mechanus
Originally Posted By: CyBerkut
Originally Posted By: Mechanus
Finally, women's entire validation comes from one thing: their ability to attract men.


Yeah, there's no cynicism there... rolleyes

I see you're still fond of making such overly broad statements. That is where, at least in part, your credibility is diminished in the eyes of some people here.


No, it's that men think of women still in different terms and have a hard time giving this up. It's like saying it's overly broad that men aret attracted to women's beauty, therefore, discard the notion that men are attracted to female beauty. Too broad a statement.


No, it's not "like saying it's overly broad that men aret attracted to women's beauty, therefore, discard the notion that men are attracted to female beauty."

Saying:

Originally Posted By: Mechanus
Finally, women's entire validation comes from one thing: their ability to attract men.


isn't like that. It's not merely too broad a statement, either. It's an obviously false statement for many women and ignores the much more complex totality of their being. If you think that women like Margaret Thatcher, Mother Teresa, Sally Ride, Sandra Day O'Connor, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Hillary Clinton, Joan of Arc, or Ronda Rousey have their entire validation come from their ability to attract men... then I'd say that is solid evidence of being seriously disconnected from reality.

One doesn't have to limit themselves to only famous women of accomplishment to see them finding validation in other things either... it's just easier to illustrate that way. Women in the workplace can find validation in recognition of work well done. Mothers can find validation in raising children to be law abiding, contributing members of society. That's not to say all of them do, but there are plenty of them that do. It's all around us and readily seen, if one merely looks beyond the gonads and hormones.

I'll repeat: You can know your own experiences, and you can choose to believe whichever of the things you have been told or read. But you can't know everyone else's experiences.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/23/16 01:28 AM

But you're not understand the point I'm making. Obviously a lesbian doesn't feel that way. A mother with her child doesn't feel that way.

I'm talking about the context of romantic relationships, that's the point you missed. When it comes to that, the female's currency for attraction is based on her physical appearance to attract a mate.

You see guys attracted to women because of their jobs? No. Attracted to their wealth? No. Status? No. Ability to protect the man? No.

You'd have to understand it from a socio-biological standpoint, women evolved the way they have in terms of the men they attract, which is through their physical looks first and foremost. Even in society, women 'outrank' other women based on their looks. Women spend so much time on their physical appearance, because it is so important.

Women would not know they are attractive if people did not pay them any mind and constantly remind them of it. Some men are handsome but often don't know it, because they don't get the same validation as women do. Women are used to this validation much more, when you take that out, something is amiss, and it is the source of a self esteem problem- it's that important. When men don't find them attractive, the girl is on a different path in their lives. Life is much harder for them. Girls and young women know this, they are very competitive with another when they are young and they are already establishing their hierarchies and realizing what their lives are going to be like and what kind of careers and husbands they are going to have based on that.

Less attractive women don't have the same options as attractive women, they don't get the same opportunities, they have to rely more on other things, their intelligence, resourcefulness- more like a man. Even in her non romantic relationships, she can always have her entourage of men willing to help her out, guys she can flirt with to get them to fix her problems, it helps them in job interviews and negotiating with men and so on.

So attractive women, when you take their number one currency out of it, it throws them off. Even in our not so distant past, this could be a matter of survival or whether she has children or not- if a man doesn't find her attractive, she's on her own, or else she may attract men who are not so much prime candidates, but it's the best she can do.
Posted By: Legend

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/23/16 02:05 AM

Originally Posted By: LukeFF
Amen

Oh, and on that note: I got engaged last week, and the two of us couldn't be happier. We've both waited a long time for the right person to come along, but we are glad we did not give up and lose hope along the way.


Congratulations, Luke! All the best to you and the (near) future Mrs FF.
Posted By: CyBerkut

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/23/16 02:56 AM

Originally Posted By: Mechanus
But you're not understand the point I'm making. Obviously a lesbian doesn't feel that way. A mother with her child doesn't feel that way.

I'm talking about the context of romantic relationships, that's the point you missed.


I didn't miss the point. I just find the narrow focus upon only certain aspects of romantic relationships to be shallow.

But OK, let's re-examine the statement in just the context of romantic relationships. It is still wrong.

Originally Posted By: Mechanus
Finally, women's entire validation comes from one thing: their ability to attract men.


Sadly, I'm sure some women have fallen into that way of thinking. However, there are women who also find validation in choosing their partner wisely. There are women who also find validation in holding true to their moral convictions while finding a partner. In other words, they can find validation in the choices that they make, not merely in who they can attract to choose them.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/23/16 03:09 AM

It's 'logical' the way it works- with male selection routines prioritizing their looks so much, it's the outcome of that.

It's true for us all- attractive people in society are given more options in life, they are perceived as healthier, more intelligent, more fun to be around, more trustworthy.

With women, it just happens to be so much more important. And this is why I explain the strange phenomenon when you see what looks like a mismatch when you see an apparently attractive woman with a guy she looks like she could do better- and people scratch their heads how this happens. If it's not his wealth or something like this, it's the guy's personality that trumps, the guy is acting in ways that doesn't remind the girl of her potential social status because of her looks, she thinks he's the catch, not the other way around.

The times when I used to hesitate more because I used to think, "You know the girl is pretty, but I want to see what her personality is like for relationship material," - bombed every single time. When I did that instead of acting on just the primary attraction level, I lost every time to some jerk who made the move that I didn't make.

That's the dynamic I explain, when I was the 'nice guy,' I lost every time to the guys who just simply didn't care about things like her personality and that sort of thing, and these women apparently would trade me for them every single time. These women would go with these jerks, and then cry to me about them, and then go right back to them and it repeats itself.

So I realized I can't change women, if that's the way they are, if that's what they prefer, it's not for me to tell them otherwise. No, I'm not a jerk to them, but I don't hesitate if the right signals are there, I don't try to make a girlfriend out of them first and try an establish a deep relationship, because again, every time I did that I lost to some other guy who was quicker on the draw.

Fortune favors the bold, they generally are more attracted to guys who display some characteristic that takes them out of their usual routine. Girls are sometimes over protected and supposed to be lady like all the time, but they aren't, and they don't want to be all the time- they can be very not like that, and chaos and turmoil can be quite attractive to them. We are not used to this idea if we're raised to be gentlemen, again, we often apply to them what we think they ought to be than the way they are. They like the idea of a storybook romance like in the movies, which are anything but pleasant and that sort of thing, it actually is attractive for a guy to swing in on a chandelier and take them away, and that's how they perceive these wrong guys versus the nice, pleasant guy who don't ignite any passion. At least the wrong guys provide that turmoil and uncertainty. This may sound weird, but it is a real part of female psychology.

It's not our job to save them, they resist it even more and it doesn't work. I've tried it, they disliked me even more when I did.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/23/16 05:23 AM

Originally Posted By: Mechanus
I'm in my forties, I'm told I look I look like I'm in my late 20s, but I insist it's not my looks, it's my attitude now.


Ah, so it IS a mid-life thing! smile

Driving you crazy too, huh? Like the final encore of youth, you picking up hawt young chicks (I assume you're getting laid constantly), me reliving the 12th grade but with coinage in my pocket and access to the goodies.

You know we're going to look back at all this one day and say, "WTF were we thinking?!" biggrin Hopefully before we reach an age where it seems creepy (you) and silly (me), or maybe we're already there but we don't see it. wink
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/23/16 05:47 AM

It is in this sense: at some point I said to myself that I'm not getting younger. I'm going to step out of my comfort zone and try something different I wasn't doing before. Why not? What is there to lose? That was the impetus for change.

I've mentioned before I am a late bloomer, I went through my twenties with virtually no attention from women but two, I was just mystified why this was so. It wasn't adding up. It was by series of chance things that I did that started to add up differently slowly but surely.

I'm going to say this now, and it's going to sound weird. I wouldn't believe it if I hadn't seen this myself.

One time I was at party with some friends, after some drinks, some of the female guests were making fun of me and teasing me. You can't let them get away with that.

I went up to one of the girls taunting me, and I nudged her a little bit so she fell backwards against the wall, and I went up to her and looked into her eyes and quoted this Christopher Walken character in the movie Nick of Time where he warns Johnny Depp about what's going to happen.

This created tension in her that she almost had a big "O" right there and then. And the women before us all just looked totally mesmerized. She asked me how I knew to do that. Where did I learn that? "Learn what?" I asked "Dominate me like that." I didn't know, I had never heard of it anywhere, I was drunk, and it seemed like fun at the time. They were making fun of me, and I felt like turning the tables. This does something very primitive to them. It's losing control to you that drives them nuts- it's the most macho thing in the world to take control, and despite feminist women and things like this say, they have this primitive thing that even they don't have a choice in. They want to lose control, not too much control to where it's dangerous; the individual woman's experience and comfort levels enter into it, but all of them to a degree have this potential to act like this. I touched on it before with the romance novels and women succumbing to the dashing male. A bit unpredictable, a bit dangerous to know- the archetypal swashbuckling or Byronic Hero type romantic character.

I mentioned this to another guy once, and he said, "You're just figuring this out? They're all like this." Often times the women themselves don't even know, they don't explore just how bizarre and extreme their sexuality goes, especially if the men don't know it to try on them. Ever since then, I have experimented with other kinds of sexist behavior with women, and if you know how to do it, it does turn them on. If you're more reserved, you won't believe this, there is nothing in your upbringing that would ever clue you in to it.
Posted By: RSColonel_131st

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/23/16 08:17 AM

Originally Posted By: Mechanus
I am stopping, it's just becoming a drag.

But you do find it more intriguing than you admit- despite what you think of my character and despite what you think I say is toxic (which I disagree), you can't stop reading it. You say I'm say I'm so awful yet you can't turn away, which means you're reading it in order to comment on it - why?



Train Wreck phenomeon. You don't want to look but can't help yourself.

Seriously though, call it a study of people that I'm interested in. You're an interesting study object.
Posted By: PFunk

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/23/16 12:00 PM

Originally Posted By: Mechanus
Finally, women's entire validation comes from one thing: their ability to attract men.


There's your problem right there.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/23/16 02:10 PM

Well, the chances of us being here is a bit diminished if that weren't the case. If men didn't find women attractive, then I think you can see logically what happens (or what doesn't happen rather). Not hard to understand. Not hard to understand that is the core of female validation to attract a mate in her wiring, men have their version of it as well. It's important that females get their validation externally, and act accordingly to be attractive. That's not a problem to see. If it wasn't that way, they would get their validation more like men are expected to, by their work, careers and so forth- but I repeat, men aren't really attracted to women's careers. Society doesn't place as much a premium on women for their careers. Women themselves always try to get that external validation, always put on makeup and put on a good presentation for external validation no matter what their careers. Even older women if they were doctors or professionals of some kind still try and look good when they go out the door. It's right in front of you happening everywhere. It's quite important. Women like attention. They like to know they can turn heads.

I understand why men don't get it, because I didn't either. Men aren't told anything, sure you show up on a date, and that's about it- you pay for things, now the women give you her affections, because you're there like she is, and you paid for dinner. That should get you everything you need, the hot girls will be lining up to get at you. Now they're going to be chasing you and calling you for dates.

Wrong. Do you wonder why that isn't how it works?

Women aren't turned on the same way men are. Men think "I'm a guy, I'll show up, and pay for things, that should do it." That's not how it works, they're not turned on like men are, men are the visual ones who get their stimulation just by looking at a women, not the women. Furthermore, just the act of paying for stuff isn't how it works, either. That's just a bribe at its most basic. "In exchange for paying, you give me affection." That's exactly what that is.

Look at it this way: Han Solo doesn't pay for things, it's not that he's paying for things. James Bond isn't paying for things when he walks in the room and all eyes move to him at that moment. The charismatic characters in the movies aren't just paying for things and the women characters or the women in the audience just fall for them because he's buying. "Oh he pays for dinner and he's nice and he helps out around the house, he's dreamy."

It's the vibe the man has, it's something about him that the women thinks to themselves, "There's something about him, he's not behaving like anyone I've seen before." It's his vibe.

All the nice guys look and act more or less the same, it's all the same deal. They're nice, they're pleasant, that's it. Sure, they dress nice and can be handsome, that's still not it, again, that's more like how men are attracted to women. Those things don't hurt, but that's not the core of a woman's attraction.

I'm going to say forget about everything you know or think you know about what an alpha male is. Maybe the thought comes to mind the captain of a football team, sure those can be alpha, but that's not per se what it means. It's a mindset, not a career or position. There are alphas in prison, there are alphas in the boardroom, there are alphas who collect garbage.

An alpha is a guy who doesn't look like everyone else, he behaves with his own personality that is just captivating in the room. He stands out even if he's not trying to.

Here is Jarvis Cocker from the band Pulp, after he was arrested for storming the stage Michael Jackson was performing on at the Brit Awards years ago. Michael Jackson's act was kind absurd at the time, and Jarvis Cocker jumped on stage and made a spectacle to protest it. Here is the interview afterward:


This guy is alpha as hell. Skinny guy with glasses, He completely is Alpha, uninhibited by pretense, afterthought, or conscious awareness of any influence that could have a hope of prompting introspection about his state. It's his presence, aloof and apart from the rest.





He's not some big thug or super hero looking guy, his presence is just captivating to people. He just gets naturally what a lot of guys spend a lot of time learning 'game' or learning pickup moves have to practice and don't get naturally. He is effortlessly cool and just 'the guy' in the room.

Posted By: MarkG

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/23/16 03:13 PM

Soo...

Women want to look pretty.

Men chase after what they find attractive.

Is there a revelation here?

Guess what, some men want to look nice too. Have you not been following "The SimHQ Diet and Training Thread?"

Here's another thought...

We don't all find the same things about women attractive, either physically and even with personality. There may be similarities within a range of attributes, but some of us might prefer an extreme either way, and I think there's a pretty wide range of what any group of men find attractive. I've seen this at strip clubs (early 90's) and porn (more recently than I'd like to acknowledge, all in the past now). "There's a lid for every pot," know what I mean? Of course you're going to chase what your heart and hormones desire, especially when you're young.

Your comments just seem way too generalized (as pointed out to you already). Also, how many SimHQ'ers really need "Sex and Relationships 101"? We're not in high school here (even if some one of us still pretends to be).
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/23/16 03:27 PM

Of course men want to look nice too, but I'm saying that's not the primary objective for women- women themselves say that. Over and over again when asked what they find attractive, looks don't rank first the way men prioritize it. They're being honest when they say that. If they liked looks the same exact way men do, they probably would be attracted to women, too. In fact, many of them do say they find women more attractive look at, but yet they still aren't romantically attracted to them.

Women aren't the primary consumers of magazines showing nude bodies, they aren't the ones driving the strip club industry. It's right in front of us. The generalization is true.

It's your vibe, it's what's known as your 'frame;' looks don't matter when the vibe doesn't square up. So, for example, you could like Christopher Reeves as Superman, but if your vibe was like Pee Wee Herman, the looks are really kind of undone by that. Sure.

The generalization thing is true: generalizations exist and they are true. You live by generalizations everyday, both consciously and subconsciously. If you have an analytical mind, that might throw it off and make it seem like generalizations don't exist, because you see exceptions to generalizations and things like this and dismiss generalizations because you see all the possible variables or deviations from the generalization. On dates, it's often better in many respects to not overthink like that.

Exceptions to the rule do not disprove the rule, the rules are still there. So as a rule, people who who live in the ghettos are not rich. Maybe you'll find a few exceptions, but that is the rule. Women do not prioritize looks the way men do in the same way, that is the rule, that is what you'll find is true.

There's lots of guys I think are good looking who I see who are alone and don't attract women, and I used to wonder why that is, now I get it. It doesn't work the same way. A man's looks don't hurt, but women have evolved differently in the way they select mates. A guy who is exciting, mysterious, a bit unpredictable, has a personality that makes her think "something about this guy," trumps a guy who looks perfect, just looks like a TV personality but a wooden, cardboard personality.

Posted By: oldgrognard

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/23/16 03:38 PM

Originally Posted By: Mechanus


One time I was at party with some friends, after some drinks, some of the female guests were making fun of me and teasing me. You can't let them get away with that.

I went up to one of the girls taunting me, and I nudged her a little bit so she fell backwards against the wall, and I went up to her and looked into her eyes and quoted this Christopher Walken character in the movie Nick of Time where he warns Johnny Depp about what's going to happen.
.


And this is what concerns me about the "advice" you are giving. Like when you advocated that no doesn't always mean no.

That was assault and communicating a threat.

You were lucky she didn't file charges. You were lucky there was no real man there to come to her defense. Those are not the actions of a strong secure man. That was childish punk behavior.



Why would anyone think that you have things figured out and take advice from you ? That would be like taking financial advice from someone who can't turn a profit. By your own admission you do not have strong family connections. You do not have a meaningful romantic relationship. You admit to having no interest in marriage or a committed relationship. Therefore you have no children. You have told us that you don't have real close friends or do well in social situations. You are not successful in your occupation and are only doing shaky contract work and do not think you are going to be renewed. You don't even seem to like what you are doing. You are not involved in some kind of charity or community programs to help others. You do not have a religious commitment. You have not dedicated yourself to some cause such as the service of your country or first responder. I would ask you if you think you are well thought of ? Your posts here make you seem tragic and obsessed. You can't even figure out that this thread was created not as a pat on the back to you. You even hijacked another thread that a moderator moved from its location to here because of your post. So, in summation you are not living the kind of life that would seem fulfilling to most of us. 
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/23/16 03:48 PM

It's not communicating a threat, I understand why it sounds like that, it's not.

So, it wasn't going up to a stranger on the street and doing that, the context was completely different, these were people I knew, everyone was in a good mood, and she did not take it as a threat. So if I didn't make that clear, that's my fault, but I will state it, if it was taken as a threat, it would have turned out differently. It wasn't creepy or anything like that.

There are things you have wrong about me, but it wouldn't matter, you don't like me anyway. Granted, I am not the kind of guy that you probably would find interesting.

The difficulty I'm having is explaining what I found out about women that were also surprising to me, and it's difficult to explain it because it is so counter intuitive based on how we're raised. They go outside of most of our experiences and it's 'shocking' if one doesn't really know about it.

This comes from being raised by women- your mothers, teachers who impact your lives, women are the sugar and spice and everything nice gender, and that's what's programmed into us from an early age, so we don't think of women and what really goes on in them contrary to them. There's a whole different side to them entirely.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/23/16 04:31 PM

When I say these things to women, they're never offended- they are actually intrigued. Men can be intrigued but often shocked at the same time, because raised they way they are to want to protect women and be nice to them, it's contrary to anything that a lot of them heard. The soft, vulnerable species which isn't like this.

But if women are the ones capable of being the ones in the sex industry, if they are the ones capable of being the strippers, there really is something about them that's different. They like to feel sexy and wanted in primal way, it's often contrary to the expectations that society places on them to be ladies and be proper and things like this. They're quite schizophrenic because of those two competing issues going on with them. Sure.

It's like Shania Twain: you got the money and the looks, you got the brains, but you need the touch. I need to feel sexy with you.

Posted By: MarkG

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/23/16 04:44 PM

Just know the difference between assertion (if it's requested of you in an established relationship) and aggression (which no sane person wants to experience).
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/23/16 05:12 PM

You'd be surprised, you ever see girls at boxing matches getting excited watching guys pummel each other? Ever see them deliberately instigate fights with men? They can be more cruel in their wiring than you think.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/23/16 05:22 PM

Here's the goldmine, I've been alluding to it, I haven't spelled it out quite yet, it may sound a little abstract, I'll do my best.

How to be effortless attractive, how to be attractive by literally doing nothing. It's not easy, it doesn't come naturally. Doing nothing is harder than one might think. It takes practice. I was always naturally more shy around women, so it wasn't too hard for me, but still required me to understand some things that I didn't know why or how it worked until I really studied it.

So when you go out, be aloof, don't look at anyone unless they speak or approach you first. Do nothing that suggests that you are attached to others, just simply do nothing but mind your own business.

Why? When most people are out, they are looking others, they respond subconsciously to others, to sounds, to movement, they react: when some girl for example twitches or moves a body part, men can't help but look. People's eyes are always scanning at everyone else, heads move, eyes move.

Why is it so important to be detached? It's what's known as frame. If they're looking at you first, or you're not looking at them when you're not looking back, they are in your frame, you're not in theirs, that's very important. If you are looking at a girl, you are in her frame. You may have noticed that people who don't notice you but you notice them seem apart from you- different, it raises your attraction, you're in their frame. When you chase women, when you seek their validation, when you play by their rules, when you agree with what they say all time for fear of rejection, you're in their frame. Reverse this, pull them into your frame by being a little aloof. Set yourself apart.

Another way to look at is when looking at photographs.

Here is one of Liz Taylor, not looking at the viewer, but looking off frame, as if her attention is drawn somewhere else. You are pulled into her frame. Look at photographs like this and see the difference when the subject looks back at the view or looks out of frame.

http://gossip.whyfame.com/elizabeth-taylor-was-late-to-her-own-funeral-10444

For women, this is extremely important, especially since if they are even reasonably attractive, their public appearance pulls most men into their frame. You want to be the guy who pulls them into your frame, as if you're the catch, as if you're the show. Be aloof- do nothing.

Posted By: Wireman

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/23/16 05:33 PM

Posted By: MarkG

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/23/16 05:56 PM



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfatrAqd22c

38:20: "Hi Badger, you're book on how to pick up trashy women came today."

GOTO 49:10

biggrin
Posted By: RSColonel_131st

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/23/16 06:48 PM

Is that the same Mechanus who a day ago said:
Quote:
I am stopping, it's just becoming a drag.


And here you are again, telling everyone your "goldmine" on how to be an idiot, and how to be agressive towards women.

Posted By: kludger

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/23/16 07:18 PM

Originally Posted By: LukeFF

Amen
Oh, and on that note: I got engaged last week, and the two of us couldn't be happier. We've both waited a long time for the right person to come along, but we are glad we did not give up and lose hope along the way.


Congrats LukeFF, best wishes to you and yours!


Originally Posted By: Mechanus

I've explained often why I talk about this, I'll do it again: the topic is interesting to me. And there is an interest in me to explain what I've found. It would be the same thing with any of you and topic of interest and talk about it.

You can insult me as you seem to be fond of doing, it changes nothing about what I've said. I'm in it for the topic itself and to help people who want to understand things if it seemed like a mystery to them before. That is my motivation as I've said.


I think the problem some of us have in reading your posts is that your advice and opinions focus on the young adult, shallower parts of life, the pursuit of picking up women, and controlling what they and other people think of you.

Most of us outgrew caring much about that stuff after our 20s as we matured, became responsible for things, and established lasting family bonds with women where the relationships are about happiness, honesty and caring, and don't just depend on sexual mind games and manipulation.

So your advice can come across to us as naiive, misguided, and sometimes even self defeating, as if you are trying to convince yourself more than us, that you have to behave that way to avoid being mistreated or ignored.

I don't really think we are the right audience for your advice. You might want to consider finding a group who is more focused on that type of relationship discussion, either online or in person, sounds like you might enjoy it more or benefit more that way. Just my $.02
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/23/16 08:27 PM

I understand, so I'll look at this way.

When males are still single, they're often shamed for being so- why aren't they tied down and married? Well, some don't want to get married for their own reasons. Ok fine, but I still enjoy living life, doing that later in life doesn't have to be a bad thing save for the prejudice that it should be so.

Why should I live according to someone else's model of what I should be doing? If it works for me, what works for you works for you. People don't normally shame married people, but single people get this all the time as if there is something wrong with them. So it's as if men are worth less if they are single, and that is a real thing- there is basically a single tax, when you're married you get a tax break. Married people are just viewed as more 'valuable' to society or something like this.

The generations coming up behind us, the millennials and what have you are going to be even more like this- watch it happen. For whatever reason, they are putting off marriage or not getting at all in larger numbers. That is going to be a cultural shift that takes place, and it won't be as 'weird' as some might think.

I never put people down for being married and living the button down life, that's fine for them. But there is as strange tendency to shame single people. Why aren't they like us? What's wrong with them? Can't they see it's immature? It's fine if you think so, but it's not going to change people just to shame them for it. Marriage is a risk as far as I'm concerned, it's too easy with no fault divorce for the woman just decide she's bored one day and just decide to leave and take the assets with her.

Why don't I have a steady girlfriend? Once in awhile I do, but after awhile, the older they get the more they try to tie you down, and the more you deal with people's set ways. Here's that threat again, and quite frankly their personalities aren't anything I really find I have a lot in common with to tie myself to them. I just don't deal with it, at least, not to the point that I share my resources and life with them in that kind of commitment, which benefits them more than it does me. I'd rather come and go when I want and do what I want, and that's a good life for me. In all honesty, many of my married friends seem to envy me more than I envy them.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/23/16 10:15 PM

Single shaming? smile Can it be any worse than married child-free shaming?

Lots of Roman Catholics in both of our families (including wife until she fizzled out), getting married at 20 while making the decision not to have children is not very popular 'round these parts.

We knew at the very least we would wait, starting off rough, selling her car to pay for the wedding (although our families volunteering and catering really came through to make it nice...~100 people, total cost of only $2k). Getting and then keeping her mom out of debt was our first priority even before the wedding (loved the woman but man she was *terrible* with money).

The right time for kids never came, and that was my fault. My regret isn't not having children (I never wanted to be a father), my regret is not being upfront enough about it at the very beginning, that I'd likely never change my mind. When the opportune time finally did arrive (rather, when time was quickly running out), my personality and increasing health issues nipped the idea. This kinda stuff can be a deal breaker for a marriage, and I could sense the resentment.

I said it before, the day I finally saw a doctor to keep her from leaving me, the EKGs and pills to lower my pressure (wasn't sure if I was having a stroke), wife in the corner with her head in her hands crying, I really felt like I had ruined both of our lives. That feeling went deeper than just my health with skirting class III obesity, my carelessness and dishonesty hit me all at once.

Oh, the drama! eek All true, though. The game changer at 40, and what it took to permanently change my lifestyle.

Still we get a little child-free (or child-less, however you want to label it) shaming but in a friendly way, or they believe something must have been wrong with one of us ("Have you thought about adoption?"). Meh, I think that and any skinny shaming is all in the past now.

EDIT: Oh, and congratulations Luke! cheers
Posted By: Murphy

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/24/16 01:59 AM

As much as I hate to post in this thread, I must say;
Congrat's Luke!

-----------------------


And now that I'm here, Mechanus, you have my sympathy.....for everything.
I do feel sorry for you, and your sad uninformed attitude toward the opposite sex.
My hope is some day, you realize how very silly you sound, giving instructions to all of us.
Like a child, who's been nowhere, preaching about life, to adults.

Some day, I do hope you return to read this, and realize yourself, how ridiculous all this really sounds to the rest of us. wink

Enjoy your thread, I apologize for interrupting the sermon.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/24/16 04:08 AM

Correction...

Over dinner tonight I asked wife (and mom who helped tremendously with organization) how much did our wedding cost. Right at $2k (not $6k), and that included dress and everything! Who says having daughters are expensive (besides my brother)? smile
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/24/16 07:13 PM

Originally Posted By: MarkG
Single shaming? smile Can it be any worse than married child-free shaming?



I don't know, but I'm sure it's no fun for you.

I think this is what it is, if anyone else wants to give their opinion, I'll listen.

Men in general are viewed more suspiciously than women. That's how it is, our species probably wouldn't make it if that weren't the case. Women are protected more and they don't really have to do anything to earn it. The more attractive they are, the more it is instinctual for people to want to protect them. If that weren't the case, the species doesn't reproduce, the women are the human beings, just by existing they have worth- up to a point. Once they are past their fertile years and their looks start to decline, they are not as valuable. Then they have the status more like men face- people don't take much pity on old bag ladies, nor find them attractive enough to worry about them. A healthy, attractive young woman however will virtually never find herself in that position unless she has a severe mental disorder or drug or alcohol addiction. Someone will always look out for and protect an attractive woman. It's how we're wired, it's how the species behaves probably on a subconscious or intuitive level.

With men, it's quite different. They're the human doers. If they're not doing something useful for someone or for society, no one cares about them as much. They're much more disposable, there's always more men where that came from. So if a man is ever in the position that he's disabled and can no longer support himself, he's a burden, if family don't take care of him, no one is going to, he slowly disappears out of society.

Single guys are just not viewed as part of society the same way, they're competition for other men, so they don't particularly like them, that's where the shaming comes from. They're not doing anything useful for anyone else but indulging themselves. No use to anyone but themselves.

Maybe there's something not quite the same but similar with no child shaming- you're not providing your utility by producing the next generation to keep the species going, even though you're married, you're still indulging yourself by not sacrificing by producing offspring and the next generation. Virtues are often entirely centered around self sacrifice, that's why people like virtue- someone is doing something for someone else. Shaming is how those virtues are reinforced by bringing to bear social stigmas.

I don't think this all happens per se on conscious level, it's probably largely subconscious, social behavior evolves like this without conscious decision. That's what makes it more powerful and compelling.
Posted By: Rick.50cal

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/24/16 08:37 PM


Dude...

READ


THE


ROOM.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/24/16 09:02 PM

Well, if there's one good thing about airing it out here, I almost always end up discussing the same things in real-life (gets stuck in my head).

All is forgiven and forgotten, mistakes and regrets acknowledged by both (I tend to focus only on my own shortcomings).

I really like the way she put it recently, "Look at your parents, late-70's and still very vibrant. If we also live to be at least 80, then we're not even at the halfway point of our marriage yet!" Then a few other more personal comments about what we'll still be doing at 90, a bit optimistic I think, but I love this woman's attitude! biggrin

Older women not as valuable? They are to the men who love them. wink

++++++++++

And with that, I'm going on a musical vacation (Music Board -> Brit Floyd).

Later. wave
Posted By: Wireman

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/24/16 09:23 PM

It's a marathon. Pace yourself.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: For those who forgot. - 06/29/16 03:05 AM

Originally Posted By: Wireman
It's a marathon. Pace yourself.


It's the realization that you're likely much closer to the finish than the starting line.

Feeling a little something like this...

==========
Tired of lying in the sunshine staying home to watch the rain.
You are young and life is long and there is time to kill today.
And then one day you find ten years have got behind you.
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun.
==========

++++++++++

Got back a couple of hours ago, best mini-vacation of my life, or one of them anyway! Driving home I had this overwhelming feeling that I've left most of my mid-life anxieties in a Candlewood Suite at CityCentre (Houston), Texas. I'm going to get my head out of my ass past now and live in the present and for our future.

Except with music and most media of course, the old stuff is always going to be better! biggrin
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Someone failed math - 06/29/16 06:52 PM

Originally Posted By: Cold_Gambler
This reminds me of the vid of the GF who couldn't answer how far they'd have driven in an hour if they were going 60 mph... In both cases, I feel that while yes, the GF is empty-headed, the BF is the bigger a**hole for filming it and posting it online. Meh, I dunno... maybe I sense of humour is broken.



Well, I say this elsewhere- in general, attractive women just don't need to do much, just show up. That's all they need to do, that's why things like personality or creative thinking just isn't a priority for them, neither evolutionary nor cultural pressures really required that for them to succeed and to reproduce. Men may laugh at them, but they don't stop trying to associate with them. So it really doesn't matter. Even as far as philosophers go, I don't think there's ever been a female who did anything original that was groundbreaking, it's just not important.

And I don't actually think it matters, the human species doesn't really need a lot more intellect to procreate and thrive than it has already- except to just to keep up with society, which gets more complicated and convoluted. I'm already out of the loop on lots of things like the latest technologies, and there are kids who could skate circles around me because they can write apps now.
Posted By: PV1

Re: Someone failed math - 06/30/16 07:26 AM

Originally Posted By: Mechanus

And I don't actually think it matters, the human species doesn't really need a lot more intellect to procreate and thrive than it has already-


Procreate, yes, alas. Thrive, not so much.
Posted By: PanzerMeyer

Re: Someone failed math - 06/30/16 11:08 AM

Originally Posted By: PV1
Thrive, not so much.
Biologically it is most definitely thriving. 7.5 billion plus people and counting.
Posted By: PV1

Re: Someone failed math - 07/01/16 09:00 AM

Originally Posted By: PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted By: PV1
Thrive, not so much.
Biologically it is most definitely thriving. 7.5 billion plus people and counting.

That's thriving the same way a yeast colony thrives,
just before its accumulated ethanol waste kills it.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Someone failed math - 07/01/16 08:18 PM

I suppose that is true of all things- consider all life as basically cancer. Thriving means to propagate itself, competing, evolving, mutating, growing, consuming energy. What else thrives in a different sense than that?

Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Someone failed math - 07/01/16 08:23 PM

A good movie to watch which behaves like that utopian rat experiment is The Beach with Leonardo di Caprio. That's basically what it is- a few people remove themselves from society, which they view as a growing cancer. In the process they set up their own utopian cure from that by dropping out. Before long, their utopia starts behaving the same way as the society they can't stand anymore. One of them escapes looking for a 'cure for the cure', and that's where the story begins.
Posted By: coasty

Re: Someone failed math - 07/02/16 06:50 PM

thriving has to do with achieving one's potential, in my opinion, and it seems a decreasing percentage of humanity is doing that.
Posted By: PV1

Re: Someone failed math - 07/03/16 10:31 AM

I think of a species thriving when it is solidly
embedded in a stable ecosystem, not when it is
careening toward destruction, regardless of the
head count.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: For those who forgot. - 07/09/16 05:37 PM

I'm going to make one more comment about "No" meaning "No" (or "Stop" meaning "Stop"), and it may be my last post for a while as I might be losing internet this afternoon until I find another option.

We talked about this in Houston. She doesn't remember ever having to say it, although I seem to remember once, before we were engaged, I was hammered one night on a Gulf Shores beach and I might have began misbehaving a little. But as I recall I only had to be told once and that was the end of it (and she doesn't even remember saying it).

No, my problem apparently has been hearing these words (or even sensing protest) in my own imagination. The issue becomes of trust, you can't read someone's mind, you have to trust that the person you're with will speak up if they need to. It's still better to err with a heavy foot on the brake than the pedal, but better yet not to err at all and fortunately communication gets better with age.

Of course a verbal "No" or "Stop" or "Banana" (A "Family Guy" reference smile ) means exactly that, unless you're playing some game and agree on the rules or something (that kinda stuff goes over my head).
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: For those who forgot. - 07/10/16 03:29 AM




Scenes like this gets women hot- not just in the movies, in real life. At some point in their lives, men and women fantasize about relationships and what they think they're like. Even the most Spock like male can turn to putty when he is attracted to a woman. The fact of the matter is that relationships don't often behave like this. Over time, they become routine and this sort of thing, and the fantasy doesn't square up with the reality.

You see, most guys don't act like Han in the above scene. They don't create tension. Tension is what drives a woman's interest dramatically- you may have heard it said that women like drama. Most men don't create a situation like this with their presence. Even women often don't know how this works because they don't encounter it at all- maybe one or two out of a hundred men can pull something like this off.

See the difference is that Leia isn't actually running away when she says stop and knock it off and to Han and to leave her alone. That's the difference. You don't chase and pursue, but you read the situation. You live in the moment, that's how women want to perceive romantic men. If that doesn't happen, then you just have a nice guy and a girl with no tension between them. There's just a friendly vibe, no romantic tension. The things that cater to women's desires in movies and books and music and things like this are all based around this concept.

They really can't help it, that's the way they're attracted the way men are attracted to a female's looks. And men are really like this too. Because men are told they are the ones to initiate all of this (or not at all if they think women just like a nice guy), in a lot of men's minds, they actually would be turned on if a hot girl were to create this kind of tension with them. They just don't get to experience it, either. But who wouldn't want that?

Consider in our past over thousands of years how we've evolved- when they males who went after what they want got the goods. That's the way it worked. That's embedded in female psychology on a primitive level in response to those males.

So I'm not saying to keep persisting is the automatic answer all the time, but there are times when you intuitively read the situation and women's feelings. Women operate on their feelings, creating tension stabs right to the heart of it.

Men of course are raised by women to treat women with respect and treat them well. Of course men want other men to treat their daughters and wives and sisters and mothers and friends with respect, sure. So in the process, men are taught how to get along and be friendly with women, which is not what creates romantic tension. And so therefore the few males who rethink this, deprogram and start again from a different basis- from the basis of attraction rather than getting along like friends, are the few who get it.

What's happening now is with things like social media and pop culture telling the sexes that they are equal, which is a tremendous lie, the sexes are taught how to get along on that basis. So young men and women are all friends now, and there is no romantic tension between them, there's no mystery between them, at least not for women, because men are all around them now, so all these guys are constantly getting friend zoned, not understanding how attraction works.

The gap, the distance between males and females should be made wider again. Bringing them around each other and making them too familiar with one another destroys that romantic tension, that mystery for women. It's just like a relationship that's no longer new and routine and familiar.

The basic thing any guy should do is treat women like their lovers- always. You do this through your presence and affect and vibe, the tonality of your voice- Harrison Ford has a great verbal tone in this scene. You do this like Han Solo by creating romantic tension right from the start. This doesn't mean you always will score, but you will never get friend zoned. If there is no tension, there is no attraction, then you read that and just move on again (which ironically tends to start raising the interest level in women- again because that's like the movies_. The guy leaving raises interest in the women, like in the movies. It's a game of push and pull- you push forward then pull back. That causes the women to gain interest. Then you push forward and pull back. That raises the tension and the interest, and she's getting the tingling feelings. Women are like cats- you show them something and take it away, as if what they get to see is only a preview, and hiding it drives them nuts. This is also analogous to the sale technique known as the takeaway.

Guys should really figure out watching women's soaps and things like this, because that's really how it works. It's not about nice guys hooking up with hot girls, it's about the tension and drama.
Posted By: Mad Max

Re: For those who forgot. - 07/11/16 04:28 AM

Is this thread an instruction manual for teenagers?
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: For those who forgot. - 07/11/16 06:35 AM

This is what I'm saying: Men might think what I'm explaining is juveline and immature and not true of adult women. And I again I say this- that is the very premise that needs to be discarded, thinking that adult women aren't turned on that way. The proof is right in plain sight. Do they like drama? Yes. Do they like to watch tv programs and movies with drama? Yes. That tells us something. When they're younger that's what they wish life was going to be- a dashing guy swings in on his chandelier and sweeps them off their feet and takes through danger and excitement, sure.

I don't hear women saying that characters like Han Solo aren't sexy and they don't find his behavior appealing and they think it's for teenagers, whether younger women or middle age women, they all think that's sexy. It's men who are the ones who think they shouldn't be this way or women aren't this way. They wouldn't necessarily want to settle down with a guy like that, because they know over the long run, that's not conducive for a stable relationship. But they certainly fantasize about that. Both sexes have these fantasies about each other, which often don't square up with reality.

Women like these kinds of situations. Adult women, yes. And plenty of adult men too would find the idea of being Han Solo in his adventures whipping around the galaxy and charming Princess Leia loads of fun. People might grow out of that when they become realistic when they're older, but it doesn't it mean that basis isn't still there as to what they think and feel is sexy.

So I'm saying that there is one Han Solo for every 100 everyday guys. The women do like the Han Solo appeal insofar as it's the exciting thrill ride versus the other 100 that are nice, but don't provide those thrills. Women like these thrills like men like a women's looks. They can't help it. Guys don't understand the attraction to these kinds of rebels or just jerks that women go out with- what does she see in him? He treats her terribly. Well, it may make sense if we assume the premise that the males with some bit of a dark streak in our evolutionary history were the ones who could parlay that into advantages, either through brute strength or cunning social ability they could achieve results and mastery over others, take out rivals if need be, protect the woman, bring home Woolly Mammoth pizza or whatever. That could be the reason why- that is still residual in women's wiring, despite a few centuries of civilization, it hasn't been bred entirely out of them yet.

I'm not saying this as a good or bad thing like I'm not saying that a bird has wings is good or bad, it just is what it is. I'm just the messenger, I didn't make it this way.

The general theory is that the way our species evolved is that the guys who could display some sort of strong or distinct character traits different from the rest of the pack were the ones who either could bring home the bacon, or could be leaders or were socially adept and successful with others who could have some sort of advantage that translates into benefits that would be put into the females he associates with are how the sexes evolved and are subconscious in female selection routines are how it works. They can't help it anymore that men can't help being attracted to a nice figure. That's why Han Solo is attractive. Women don't choose to find him sexy, they find him sexy without a choice involved, and it's behavior. Whether or not it's juvenile is up to you, but it is what it is, and I'm just the messenger explaining it.

Women like drama, and they'll create it if the men don't provide it. That's why they start fights seeming for no reason to push your buttons. They create drama, especially once relationships kind of settle into the routine mode. It injects something they can feel into it for the same reason why they can be attracted to bad guys and the wrong guys, who break their hearts- it's that need for drama. They don't even choose it, it's just like an attraction to a good looking girl. The sexes probably presume a lot of the other- each one thinking the other is attracted in the same way, which they aren't.
Posted By: Rick.50cal

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/12/16 07:41 PM







The world is changing. Things that were normal, will land you in jail today. Or on a watch list.

Buyer beware.


Oh, and just because some women have fantasies that are quite "out there", doesn't mean that you are legally covered. Nor does it mean she ACTUALLY wants to experience all of those fantasies.

Imagine a misunderstanding gone wrong... you were indulging her fantasy. Then it goes wrong, or she breaks up with you. Or you her. Three weeks later you are trying to explain to a judge. Good luck with that.

I have noticed that many old movies contain scenes once deemed "romantic" or "hot", that in today's world would lead to arrest and rape charges. Don't confuse movies with reality. It's been noticed also that many "romantic comedies" that women so dearly love, feature behavior that would in the real world be considered stalking and harassment, and would result in court orders, among other things.

So when you guys look for advice on getting women, BUYER BEWARE.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/12/16 07:57 PM

Yep.

Realize that women have agendas, and they don't necessarily resemble anything sweet and romantic. That includes getting pregnant and latching onto a meal ticket, that includes changing their minds the next day and claiming sexual battery unless the man commits or something like this. They always reserve the right to change their minds about what is happening or what did happen. They can say yes and give all the signs, all that's required is that in their minds the least bit of doubt enters into it (say they were disappointed, say that the man was only interested in sex), that doubt is enough to put the man into potentially a lot of trouble.

I've long reached the point where I respect the calculated, callous horror that women can inflict on men. It's not to say that all men are saints, of course they're not. But women are capable of some truly calculated evil.

I've told women to their faces whoever came up with the aphorism that women are 'sugar and spice and everything nice' has perpetrated one of the biggest lies that's possible, and I've seen some of them laugh and giggle like I've never seen before. It's not that I blame women, I 'get' why female nature is the way it is, in the course of our evolutionary history, being female meant facing some very tough realities and being very pragmatic.

Really to understand women is to understand at a minimum three basic concepts:

1) hypergamy- women select men who bring some use for them that they themselves can't or don't provide.

2) 'monkey branching' - women love opportunistically; they love men so long as the man is of some use; if the man becomes disabled or loses his job or can't provide like he used to and becomes a 'burden', or if a better option appears, women's minds begin to wander. This is again part of the long term strategy of the female. Better believe that women have a plan B C or D in mind, because men can come and go in their lives, they have to be prepared to move on without looking back. If women loved men unconditionally, that could be a problem for the species- that would mean they may get attached to weaker men who can't provide for her and her offspring, that would be a problem, and of no use to her to be saddled with feelings like that.

3) solipsism- women inherently view the world and men as to how they benefit her. Again, it's not to blame women, it would be like blaming spiders for catching flies, it's how they are. They probably don't realize most of the time that they are solipsists- by definition. But they perceive the world, men, relationships, life itself as to how they relate to her. Everyone does this to a degree, but female nature raises this another level, and they have no reason not to think this- especially if they are attractive, that typically means more men and society making life easy for her and front and center of attention. attractive women are treated like royalty, and to be loved like the center of the universe is how they presume that men want to treat them.

Now add on top of that any array of daddy issues or whatever other lifetime traumas that happened to them.
Posted By: Dart

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/12/16 08:08 PM

Some times there just aren't enough rocks.

-Forrest Gump

(btw, Just for fun re-watch Jenny initiating sex with Forrest. Then reverse sexes, where Jenny is the "Just Below Normal" nearly retarded person and Forrest is the one coming through her window in the middle of the night, knowing that the girl has a crush on him. Makes it totally creepy.)
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/13/16 10:59 PM

You're quite right. I actually started viewing women as creepy once I turned my thoughts around on the subject. They went from these mystical, sublime creatures to something else- and in the process, that's what actually increased my confidence with them. Because once you see them differently than these unicorns or these untouchable beings, you're much more comfortable and confident around them, and that's when that start finding you so much more attractive. That's when they start pursuing you when you find they really aren't that great. I sometimes tell guys I know, "I know you want this girl, and it might be fun in the beginning, but are you sure the juice is really worth the squeeze?"

Once you get past the infatuation phase and the intensity dies down, you'll see how the relationship changes, and it's not as fun anymore. The woman changes, in fact you see what her personality really is on a daily basis rather than what she was like in attract mode, and they are never as fun or as charming or as in good humor then (to be fair, men aren't either- relationships are pursued on the basis of what people think they're like rather than what they are).

When you see them as imperfect people rather than perfect goddesses who follows a kind of life map, you start to realize you have to protect yourself from a creature that looks like this:

If they're modern attractive women, in their younger years up into their 20s is when they cut loose, go wild, have fun with the bad boys and party guys and so forth. Sometime into their late 20s, they start to see their one currency- their looks begin to fade little by little. At this point, they are beginning to hit the wall. Depending on how long their looks last keeps this inevitable future from happening sooner rather than later.

Once they calculate they aren't as attractive to these first types of guys and the attention they get is increasingly from the thirsty guys who missed out the first time around, they figure it's time to settle and find a guy who will take them. Now they're going to find the loyal, more sensitive, loving guys who make stable partners because they are stable in their careers, aren't as likely to leave them. This is a good plan for the woman, because in the worst case scenario, she can always divorce, take some of the money and prizes with her, and do this again, if necessary.

Women don't age like fine wine, they age like milk, and it's not just their looks, their personalities tend to get worse. Knowing this, they employ emotional manipulation and abuse on their partners over time. That's the nagging and gaslighting they start heaping on the guy in order to lower his self esteem and keep him a state of partial confusion and attachment to her and not thinking he could ever leave her, thinking she's the best thing he's ever found and so forth.



Posted By: LB4LB

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/14/16 12:31 AM

Man, this thread just wont die. skullhead
Posted By: TerribleTwo

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/14/16 12:45 AM

I've never seen a guy be so wrong so many times in one thread... I think Mechanus is looking to set a record.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/14/16 01:04 AM

You're absolutely right. Relationships are exactly what they're like in the Disney movies. From day one until the day you die, there is nothing like this going on at all. They're perfect.

In fact, you can see something wrong already: no one goes to the movies to see a love story that's perfect. Without the drama of breakups and heartbreaks and relationship problems, there's no love story. Nobody goes to see perfect stories, especially women, especially women aren't attracted to that.

None of the things I'm saying are just my experiences, I've experienced enough of them to see the patterns with my own eyes, but this is also based on what I've seen and talked to and witnessed with other people, and just reading all kinds of materials on it in a realistic way.

Basically it's the Disney version, which I guess you're supposed to believe because you were raised with it or because the folks at Disney, who want to make a buck must know what they're talking about.

Even religion, if you're religious, doesn't explain relationships like the Disney version at all- in religious texts, they are supposed look much differently. Does the Old Testament look like a Disney movie in the way relationships work? No. They actually explain it in the way I'm talking about how females partner up, they marry up in status, known as hypergamy. And polygamy is practiced. The modern monogamous relationship based on love is a new concept, this was not a luxury people had before. And those older societies point to the high divorce rates in Western society and explain exactly what's wrong: they're based on something as volatile and as fleeting and as dangerous as feelings. In any other pursuit, something based on feelings is dangerous, but when it comes to relationships, that's what's supposed to happen, therefore it's counter-intutive to question that, despite much of the older cultures having a totally different take on it.

I'm not saying their model is what people should do, but I'm saying what the common perception of what people have of them is mostly a construct, and it doesn't necessarily agree with biology or with in practice what creates stable relationship patterns.

Old societies which have been around for a while explain them much like how I've explained it in the nature of human relationships they have a different practice, which are more stable- arranged marriages not based on love. Old societies have shared their wisdom and despite all that, you mainly have modern Western men and women who think much differently.

All of this versus the Disney version. It must be the Disney version that's correct.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/14/16 01:12 AM

Basically, to explain all of this in a realistic way, I've come to expect people to be incredulous, some are curious, some will refuse to believe it- but that's because of course the message is not at all comforting. I get it.

My advice is just to watch women and see what they do. It's in plain sight. Pay attention to what they say but more importantly watch what they do. Listen to their conversations when you're just kind of out of sight and they don't notice you, you get a different picture.

Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/14/16 01:34 AM

The ancient concept of the dowry- the brides' parents provide a payment of some sort to the groom and his family. This is to help the groom's family to get a head start, because they have to take care of the daughter and her children. It's more of a potential burden to take on.

You can't say I'm wrong or that I'm making this up, it's a fact. That is the definition of a dowry. That is what it is.

What happened since of course in First World society is the reverse- the woman now is perceived as 'the catch', this has twisted things and turn them around a bit. Now the man proposes on one knee because he is asking her if he 'deserves' her rather than the other way around.

Which way you prefer is up to you, but in no way are relationships being explained to people in a realistic sense in my view. The millennials and the following generations sense this is out, and they're putting marriage off more and more. Modern culture has evolved to the point where marriage is quite problematic for both sexes.
Posted By: CyBerkut

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/14/16 02:03 AM

Originally Posted By: LB4LB
Man, this thread just wont die. skullhead


This thread is serving its purpose:
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4245650/Observations_and_advice_on_rel#Post4245650
Posted By: LukeFF

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/14/16 02:11 AM

Originally Posted By: TerribleTwo
I've never seen a guy be so wrong so many times in one thread... I think Mechanus is looking to set a record.


No kidding.
Posted By: LukeFF

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/14/16 02:14 AM

Quote:
The modern monogamous relationship based on love is a new concept, this was not a luxury people had before.


You must be reading a different Old Testament than the one I have read and do read.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/14/16 03:29 AM

It is referenced, I'm not making it up. And how many wives and concubines was King Solomon said to have? Nearly a thousand as far as I hear. Now, whether he had as many as that may be exaggerated, but it does appear there. Generally the man is still supposed to respect all his wives, but the first being is supposed to be the ranking matriarch.

I don't want to turn this into a religious discussion, but there are lots of things in the Old Testament that would seem quite alien to modern culture. That includes taking war brides, which God even commanded. You can look that up- slay everyone to the last, man, beast, child, but the virgin daughters they can keep. That is repeated quite often.

From a survival standpoint, it would actually make sense to practice polygamy. It would make more sense for a man with power and resources to have several wives rather than several weak men who struggle to subsist to each have one wife. Those wives would actually have more resources if they were partnered with the single more powerful man. And the funny thing is, even in modern society you see this- guys with the money like the famous actors or the Hugh Hefners attract multiple women. It's in plain sight. It's not an anomaly. You don't see it the other way around, that is to say, you don't see multiple men chasing after older wealthy women.

I am not a famous wealthy guy, but I and others have noticed this effect: women like you more when you have options, when they see other women attracted to you, that starts the ball rolling and more women find you attractive too- like feeding one cat, more comes around. I think this is biological, it's in their instinct to follow each other to the man perceived as the most successful, because guys with several women indicate to female psychology as successful, resourceful or powerful or whatnot. And guys have learned how to successfully 'hack' into this in their wiring. Say this doesn't happen, well, I'm sorry, but I know it does. I've experienced it myself. You get more female attention once you already have women's attention, from there it snowballs, it's a feast or famine effect. They get jealous, they fight to be the one, but they are most attracted to the one top guy. Women trust other women in terms of what they seem to be attracted to. Single guys are everywhere, and they look anxious to meet women, that's no good. A decent looking woman can have any single guy she wants, that's easy, because single guys are so available, it's not hard to attract a single guy. But a guy is perceived as unavailable, especially when multiple women are chasing him, that indicates some kind of status, that guy's behavior will be vastly different than the thirsty single guys, his behavior will be like he gets women all the time, isn't thirsty for female attention, and that's more attractive to women. This is why 'playing hard to get' is a basic strategy that most guys should know. That's the first thing to do. As much as they might want the girl, they have to behave as though they get other women, because an anxious guy comes off like all the other single guys. Easy to get, not high value.

Now I'm not saying we should all practice polygamy (which is not even possible), the point I'm making that every societal practice is a construct, whether you talk about past or present, one version or another. They may each have problems, but our construct as it is new and doesn't have as much precedent, in fact it looks quite volatile given the marriage statistics, with the high divorce rates in the West, or people putting it off altogether.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/14/16 04:08 AM

I know people don't want to believe what I'm saying, which I understand, because to me it's like the scene in the third Indiana Jones film where you're supposed to take that step, the 'leap of faith' over the chasm. You're told it can be done, but all your intuition and experience up this point says that it can't.

But I'm going up against guys who are going to have to convince me that apparently their wives and girlfriends remained exactly as they did the first day they met. I've made my case, it's quite strong as far I'm concerned, not the case for the other version.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/14/16 05:37 AM

Men probably don't put themselves in the perspective of women and see the world through their eyes, I'll show it in a diagram.

When I was younger, people asked why I was single. I honestly didn't know, it confounded me. I was nice, I always was were I said I would be, I was available, I was a nice guy to be with. That's just it- I look like all the other guys doing the same thing.

0 = an attractive woman

X = an attractive male, assume that all X's are about the same, give and take, their behavior is the same, they're all like me.

This is what the world looks like from an attractive girl's point of view.

Here she is looking fine as wine (the periods are just for spacing)

...0....

XXXXXXXX

All the single Xs are ready to go- they all look the same. They all act the same, they're all willing to please. And all of them think in their own minds that they're probably different, not realizing they look pretty much the same. The male ego does not process this very well that they all look the same.

Now let's look at it this way.

Here she is, but notice someone stands out. Looks more aloof and detached and not as thirsty.

...0....
XXXXXXX.........X

Who grabs her attention? That's right, you guessed it.

Now let's change it a little. One of the guys through his body language, affect, vibe, attitude really starts to stand out now. The other X's are bewildered. Each thinks "I'm a decent guy, why that other guy over there." Just by virtue of standing apart, the Y is to the O what a physically attractive girl is to all the X's out there. Different. Above the rest.

...O....
XXXXXXX.........Y


So pair Y with O, now he's really standing out. Other O's notice, he looks even more different than the rest of the single X's this is a lady's man, more take notice.


............O...O...O...O

XXXXXXXXX...Y............

Now the situation is reversed. The rare guy is the one attracting female attention.

OOOOOOOOOOO
.....Y.....

This is how men want it to be ideally, as marriage serves a purpose to pair a man with a woman and guarantees him companionship.


OOOOOOO
XXXXXXX

But this is the opposite of how attractive females attracting powerful or resourceful or influential males probably evolved to look like

OOOOOOO
...y...

Or as Henry Kissenger said it: "Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac."




Posted By: Zamzow

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/14/16 06:15 AM

Somebody doesn't know when they're being reverse trolled.

I had sex tonight.
Posted By: TerribleTwo

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/14/16 02:17 PM

Mechanus, what the....? Is your point? You make one post after another after another after another, before anyone can reply.

Who cares about your thoughts on women, I'm more interested in what your goal is? I think this is the first time in SimHQ forum history that I've seen so much obsessing over a single topic. And I've been involved in various topics a long time now, even your old nicks weren" t this obsessive... What's going on with you?
Posted By: RSColonel_131st

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/14/16 03:09 PM

Oh come on, the FW-190 armor glass plate discussion easily beats him. Well, it involved multiple dozens of people.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/14/16 03:46 PM

Originally Posted By: TerribleTwo
Mechanus, what the....? Is your point? You make one post after another after another after another, before anyone can reply.

Who cares about your thoughts on women, I'm more interested in what your goal is? I think this is the first time in SimHQ forum history that I've seen so much obsessing over a single topic. And I've been involved in various topics a long time now, even your old nicks weren" t this obsessive... What's going on with you?


You mean you don't care about the topic? Then I can nothing I can say matters and I don't know why you bother reading my comments or that it would get to anyone. Showing up to say you don't care what I have to say yet keep reading it, yet keep pursuing what I say and responding doesn't make sense. You must be interested, and for that to happen, what I'm saying at least in part must matter than you admit.

I've said this elsewhere, I find this topic of utmost interest and fascination. It's so incredibly relevant, this is the experiment we're all trapped in together.

I could keep all this to myself, it doesn't really benefit me to share things like this with others, it only would give others insights would take away all the advantages I know how to leverage, but I found for some reason that I don't want to, I want to expose this for some reason- maybe to help others and it helps me in return because I don't feel like I'm just keeping this all in and I'm alone with it.

So look at the Amish and the Mennonites- they're on to something. Why is it so important to them to curb the desires of both sexes- and look how they've done it with plain dress and keeping material desires and possessions to a minimum. They clearly know what the temptations of both sexes and how it works. No man really is that distinct from any other with his resources and power, no woman really looks all that attractive more than any other.

It doesn't mean it's paradise, I'm sure there is still the temptation there, but they curb the instincts as best as possible, and that's why those communities are kind of living in the past. It's not an accident.
Posted By: TerribleTwo

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/14/16 07:15 PM

Originally Posted By: Mechanus
Originally Posted By: TerribleTwo
Mechanus, what the....? Is your point? You make one post after another after another after another, before anyone can reply.

Who cares about your thoughts on women, I'm more interested in what your goal is? I think this is the first time in SimHQ forum history that I've seen so much obsessing over a single topic. And I've been involved in various topics a long time now, even your old nicks weren" t this obsessive... What's going on with you?


You mean you don't care about the topic? Then I can nothing I can say matters and I don't know why you bother reading my comments or that it would get to anyone. Showing up to say you don't care what I have to say yet keep reading it, yet keep pursuing what I say and responding doesn't make sense. You must be interested, and for that to happen, what I'm saying at least in part must matter than you admit.

I've said this elsewhere, I find this topic of utmost interest and fascination. It's so incredibly relevant, this is the experiment we're all trapped in together.

I could keep all this to myself, it doesn't really benefit me to share things like this with others, it only would give others insights would take away all the advantages I know how to leverage, but I found for some reason that I don't want to, I want to expose this for some reason- maybe to help others and it helps me in return because I don't feel like I'm just keeping this all in and I'm alone with it.

So look at the Amish and the Mennonites- they're on to something. Why is it so important to them to curb the desires of both sexes- and look how they've done it with plain dress and keeping material desires and possessions to a minimum. They clearly know what the temptations of both sexes and how it works. No man really is that distinct from any other with his resources and power, no woman really looks all that attractive more than any other.

It doesn't mean it's paradise, I'm sure there is still the temptation there, but they curb the instincts as best as possible, and that's why those communities are kind of living in the past. It's not an accident.



Yes I am interested - in finding your hurt. And I think we should all step in to perhaps steer this thread into something more productive. You've spent 60+ posts or more essentially regurgitating the same falsities about women. The few that I have scanned over look like the words of a madman to be honest. There's really no reason to continue rewording the same ideas. I do think you are attempting to hide some deep emotional turmoil by posting nonsense.

You were clearly hurt by a woman at some point in your life. Either your mother or a girl you were dearly in love with. Look, there's plenty of old timers here who have found a single human girl that loves them regardless. I have one, others as well. There is wisdom in our words. It's not that we found the "perfect Disney girl" as you put it, it's that we see things differently.

I'm assuming you haven't asked any questions yet (because you have all the answers), but maybe it might be good for you. Others, like myself, have wonderful relationships. We have the answers.

No sane girl is going to be with the man you've described in 60+ posts (maybe more I haven't really counted them all).

Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/14/16 08:27 PM

That's not it at all.

Really consider the things I'm saying you've categorically said I'm wrong about.

Han Solo, James Bond- women find them sexy. Wrong.

Eye contact is sexy - Wrong.

Being too available is not unusual or attractive or challenging or interesting to women because that's the way most men are when attractive women are around - Wrong.

Confidence and appearing comfortable is sexy. Wrong.

Men aren't attracted to women's careers, status and money. Wrong.

Women don't like men the same way men like them, that's why you don't see women visiting prostitutes and lapping Playgirl Magazine off the shelves. Wrong.

For thousands of years across cultures, men and women have practiced different relationship patterns rather unlike they do today in the West. - Wrong

When men and women meet, they aren't really seeing one another how they always act at home, the first impression isn't the full story - Wrong

I could go on- this is just a start at all the things I'm saying that's apparently wrong.


What is wrong is the basic narrative of how men and women operate, as if they're both the same. That's been the message in modern First World society only for a relative short period of time, it tends to coincide with our democratic views of course, but consider the thousands of years before then where this wasn't the case, that starts to look pretty arbitrary.

I get it though, because entire industries have grown up around this idea and deluded people, again, as if it were a Disney flick. The relationship experts and the Dr. Phils, those guys don't have a clue, I doubt any of them really seriously dated much to have a grasp of what they're talking about other than the platitudes they tend to spew about opening communication, helping out with the dishes once in a while and so forth, again, they talk as if for thousands of years relationships looked exactly the same way as they did today. They simply haven't.

We have been programmed in a way that seems to hide what is really going on under the hood, like cementing it over.




Posted By: TerribleTwo

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/14/16 09:04 PM

Originally Posted By: Mechanus
That's not it at all.






No I think it is. Your opinions of women have roots in something far deeper than some shallow intellect. I've talked with a couple fellers who had the same philosophy about women, that they are manipulative, conniving, and evil. That kinda sums up your philosophy. Your thoughts are very shallow, but they originate from something far deeper.

I fully suspect you will deny your hurt, especially in an online forum. I guess that's perfectly natural.
Posted By: RSColonel_131st

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/14/16 09:21 PM

Mechanus, contrary to what you might believe I mean you no harm. I have no ill will against you.

With that said, let me ask again the question: What do you hope to achive by posting here?

There is no one here that is asking for advice. There is no one reading it and saying "Thanks, that made my relationship life better". You get Zero (capital Z) encouragement to keep posting from the community. But you keep it going, since months.

********************

I still maintain you are posting here because you either want to find someone who confirms your view of women. Because you somehow are wondering, deep down, why you got all this hurt and problems, when others haven't. You don't want to believe it's something you did, or something that's wrong with you. So you are looking for people to confirm what you write, in order to feel that the situation isn't your fault.

Or, the other option: you want to find someone who gives you your belief back that women can actually be nice and relationships can be happy, non-transactional and liberating. Because somewhere deep down inside you sits a little Mechanus that actually wants to have an emotional interaction with the fair sex, not just a trade of items based on playing games.

These two aren't mutually exclusive. Either way it's clear you've been hurt, you are trying to recover somehow. We are the wrong persons to speak with, however.

The third option - to me an unlikely one - is that you operate from the same position as some generic conspiracy theorist, believing that there's a big bad thing going on but no one knows or beliefs, only you and a select few others can save the world. You don't strike me as that kind of guy, but your recent posting frequency and tone is slowly going into such a direction. Please don't become that guy.

********************

You are an intelligent person. Take a step back and monitor your own actions here: You are posting on a message board dedicated to computer games and casual popular things, frequented in the majority by 30+ guys most of which are in a happy relationship, married, kids etc.

As others have pointed out, you are putting three or four postings in a row without anyone replying, in a defensive, sometimes slightly agressive tone. You aren't engaging in conversations. You are, sorry for the choice of word but it's accurate, "spewing forth your opinion". But you are doing this in a place where people obviously don't need and don't care for your "advice".

By some clear clinical indicators which as hobby-psychologist you will be aware of yourself, your behaviour here is mentally unhealthy. It is not the behaviour of a strong, confident guy who is happy with his life and balanced in his beliefs. Such a guy, when he tells the truth and people just don't care to learn, will simple leave the room. He will not start to shout and repeat himself over and over again.

Please, do take that step back, and look at yourself and your pattern of behaviour here. Count the posts you made in this thread versus the amount of posts made by others. Take in the signals you are sending.



I truly believe you should look for some kind of spiritual or psychological assistance and guidance. I'm not saying help, because you appear to get trough your life okay. But really, deep down, ask yourself why you are doing this here. And if you figure out it is some way of coping, some cry for help then seek people who are good at attending such needs.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/14/16 09:50 PM

I am doing this to invite debate and discussion, sure. I can only say it again- I find the topic terribly interesting, because I live in the world with all of this going on around me.

Most males won't talk about it. Women are rather easy to talk to about it, I've already talked as much as I can get out of them without hearing the same things over and over again. I do know the contempt they often have for men that they don't necessarily say openly around them, and sometimes I see the point, sometimes I think they're being unfair. But there are differences between them that make it difficult for them to really understand what the other is up to, and here is where women excel and have the natural advantage- men's typical aversion to the topic itself and to bury their heads in the sand set up men for the shellacking that they can get from women, who are far more crafty and have far more sense on how to maneuver in relationships and dating than men often realize. It's easy for them to control and manipulate by a long term process of nagging which breaks men down, they don't want to hear it, eventually they may give up and just do what the women say. Again, this has been going on a long time, perhaps an evolutionary advantage, you see, the very thing that separates a man from a woman- his physical strength and independence while making a good provider doesn't mean the woman has control over him, however. She has to break that down (I recommend watching the sitcom Married With Children- no other show I've ever seen really explains the sexes so well in such a funny way).

Talk to men, and much of the time they get upset or don't want to talk about all this, they don't want to hear it. So this is one thing that women get right about men- they behave exactly as they say, they get upset easily, just discussions of this sort does it.

And women know how to push men's buttons, they've been doing it for a long time now. Women need to know what kind of guy they are anchored to, because the man's status translates into the woman's status and her offspring. It may be a survival trait for women, by doing that they can test a man's patience, because if he gets upset easily, that indicates weakness in their view. The biggest weakness isn't per se physical weakness but mental weakness, if a man can't handle a woman, he is not strong in her view. And they do this whether consciously or subconsciously, and men, who are used to bottling their feelings up inside, again, that is a 'weakness' in women's view, and I agree with them. It's like when they say how men won't ask for directions- that is weakness, women intuitively know that showing vulnerability is sometimes stronger than hiding it, because a guy who is comfortable with himself to do that when necessary is showing strength, he doesn't fear the consequences of not having his guard up all the time.


But yes, after dating for more than 20 years now and been involved with more women short term and long term that I can remember, I've learned some things. I am a bit different now than the programming that I had when I was younger.
Posted By: RSColonel_131st

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/15/16 08:03 AM

Quod Erat Demonstratum.

You totally ignored anything I wrote to you, and just went right into another rant how evil women are, and how men (with the exception of you, of course) all don't understand it.

You wrote two huge paragraphs and yet didn't address a single point I raised in my previous post.

You're not having a discussion here. You are having a monoloque. Like a Chem-Trail believer, who when people talk about entirely different things, will use the slightest opening in conversation to talk about chemtrails.


This was my last post adressing you directly because it's pointless. You really need help, but we here are not the audience or the solution for you.
Posted By: TerribleTwo

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/15/16 02:27 PM

In case anyone needs even more insightful information about women you can check out Mechanus's posts in the historical threads listed below, under his former nick 'Kontakt5'.

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3906745/1

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3414613/1
Posted By: Peally

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/15/16 02:39 PM

Ah yes, the communist.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/15/16 07:05 PM

Originally Posted By: RSColonel_131st


You wrote two huge paragraphs and yet didn't address a single point I raised in my previous post.




What do you want me to say? I've explained repeatedly why I say what I do. Repeatedly. You've asked this question several times, each time I've explained why the topic interests me. You want me to agree with you on some point that I am not at all balanced or something in relationships. That is really what this is all about.

So in sum, men and women are different. They are not attracted to each other the same way. That wouldn't even make sense logically, because that would mean that for all practical purposes there would be one sex that would be attracted to itself. From an evolutionary standpoint, it doesn't work that way, the species would have to evolve so that women would take care of men during pregnancies and protect men from other men encroaching on their mates and so forth, or on the other hand, the female would have to attract the male on the basis of her resourcefulness, her ability to provide for him and his offspring, her ability to build a nest egg and so on. You never hear males gossiping with one another, 'Ooooh, she would make a good provider," 'Ooooh, I would love to take a ride in her sports car," and so forth, you get the idea.

So all these constructs about relationships and love that you get somehow forget these basic facts, and when people are awash in their feelings and emotions, that also clouds their perceptions of how it all works.

All of what I'm saying necessarily has to be thought in a much different way, and the proof is right in front of us all. It is of course the ideals of what people think of relationships rather than the actual practice of relationships, or the actual 'agenda' and objectives Nature has which people distort and replace with their own idealistic views.

You want me to admit that it all works out for everyone and that love is blind and all this sort of thing, well, it doesn't quite work this way. Our species would have a different set of troubles if it did- that would mean that men and women both would be attracted to qualities that would put it in jeopardy. For example, it simply would be strange to contemplate that women providing resources and protection for men when women are the ones who go through a very helpless phase during pregnancy is the way it worked out. On the other hand, it does not work so well for men to be attracted to women who have visible signs of being past their most fertile years and not able to bear healthy young.

It makes sense, doesn't it? What doesn't make sense is to think of relationships in a modern context where it's boy meets girl, that's it, Walt Disney takes over, that's the end of it without any selection routines, with no 'games' and courtship displays going on which weed out prospects. You certainly see that in other species, if we think of ourselves as animals, then it's a good assumption that happens with us- and it does. I know it does, most women know it does on some level or another, men, the ever hopeless romantics raised to believe with a certain code or belief system in First Would societies often are the ones who aren't as realistic here. Only men can have that luxury to be deluded like that, they aren't the ones who have to endure pregnancies and carry them to term, so they are the ones who probably evolved to be deluded more by their feelings and invent romantic concepts which distorts, suppresses, or obscures the real reasons why female behavior looks baffling to them- because they think women are attracted and love the same way.

If men think women's behavior is mysterious, that's the reason why- they have been programmed to think of women mostly in the opposite direction. Women on the other hand, know that men tend to put them up on a pedestal and often have these sort of perfect beauty Madonna complexes, so that screws them up, so now they know that have to act in accordance with some false image about them. Meanwhile the attraction to the mysterious bad boys probably owes to something that's in their nature- like attracts like, if there is anything to the notion of 'chemistry'.











Posted By: oldgrognard

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/15/16 07:26 PM

Why would anyone give any credit to your "analysis" ? If you can't correctly analyze how you are portraying yourself in these posts, why would anyone think you have anything of worth to lecture us about ? What you are displaying is not wisdom but obsessed foolishness and dangerous thinking in that you have promoted rape( your proposition that no doesn't always mean no), assault, and communicating threats to intimidate someone. Your "advice" could get someone prosecuted if they used it.

Let me ask you a simple question.

How do you think you are being seen by the people here ?
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/15/16 07:36 PM

I have not promoted rape, but since you bring this up, that explains something about the female species. Are people ready to hear this?

It is known that many women have rape fantasies (and those are the ones who admit to it), you don't have to take my word for it, you can look that up. You can look up the phenomenon that women sometimes do have orgasms during rape- now it doesn't mean they want to be raped, but there is something in their biology which does this. Again, look this up, you don't have to take my word for it. It might be similar to the Helsinki syndrome, where female victims of kidnappings form bonds with their kidnappers, which baffles people. Again, I'm not making this up, you can look this up yourself.

The theory goes, not my theory, the theory goes that in our evolutionary history, forced copulation was responsible for lots of pregnancies, it's in women's 'makeup' in some primitive way. The women who were insensitive enough and pragmatic enough to survive that and raise the offspring and grow attached to them probably has some basis in biology.

Then there are studies which show that many women are attracted to traits which are borderline sociopathic, that is, men who display lots of pride and narcissism. That would make sense again in our development, those are the males who are the potential conquerors, providers,protectors, those guys pass on their genes to promote strong offspring. On the other hand, it is of course dangerous to hook up with these kinds of guys, so in an evolutionary arms race between the sexes, females have their own evolutionary responses to that, that is, in the ways they are capable of dealing with and controlling men in the ways I explained earlier.

Posted By: Peally

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/15/16 07:43 PM

You need professional help. Seriously.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/15/16 07:44 PM

You didn't look anything up. Seriously.

I say it again, you can look it up yourself, don't take my word for it.
Posted By: oldgrognard

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/15/16 07:51 PM

Mechanus, yeah you did. From an earlier post of yours in this thread:

"No means no" always- actually it doesn't. I can't say about marriage, but in dating, women reserve the right to change their mind about this (or anything) on a whim, at any time. Women will sometimes bluff men to see how they react- to see if they persist, to test their resolve or to test how confident to confront challenges or how clingy they might be ........ " Blah, blah, blah. And then you later went on with this :

"It's known as a 'sh!t test', (there's other tests, women for instance may lie and say they have a boyfriend already to see if the prospective suitor backs down, panics, persists- a good strategy to pass the sh!t test is to simply ignore them as if she didn't say anything and not to react and just move on) to see what kind of male they're dealing with. Furthermore, because women often have guilt saddled on them for being interested in sex to begin with (or be considered, loose, easy and so on), they put up a front of disinterest. So it's up to the male to be able to read these individual circumstances and determine when women are bluffing disinterest or really are disinterested."



Try using that in court and you will face prosecution for rape.


Now back to the simple question.


How do you think you are being seen by the people here ?


Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/15/16 08:00 PM

Originally Posted By: oldgrognard
Mechanus, yeah you did. From an earlier post of yours in this thread:

"No means no" always- actually it doesn't. I can't say about marriage, but in dating, women reserve the right to change their mind about this (or anything) on a whim, at any time. Women will sometimes bluff men to see how they react- to see if they persist, to test their resolve or to test how confident to confront challenges or how clingy they might be ........ " Blah, blah, blah. And then you later went on with this :

"It's known as a 'sh!t test', (there's other tests, women for instance may lie and say they have a boyfriend already to see if the prospective suitor backs down, panics, persists- a good strategy to pass the sh!t test is to simply ignore them as if she didn't say anything and not to react and just move on) to see what kind of male they're dealing with. Furthermore, because women often have guilt saddled on them for being interested in sex to begin with (or be considered, loose, easy and so on), they put up a front of disinterest. So it's up to the male to be able to read these individual circumstances and determine when women are bluffing disinterest or really are disinterested."

Try using that in court and you will face prosecution for rape.



But did you understand what I said here? In a particular example, my girlfriend at the time was saying, "Stop it, our friends are coming over." But her body language, her laughing, the smile on her face, her turned on expression was something entirely different.

This again I have to say, you can consider what women say, but what they do and how they behave can be quite different.

It's similar to a way a lot of men I know because of their upbringing or whatever it is pretend as if they they aren't interested in sex, that's too sinful, that's too base, they're above that sort of thing when everyone knows it's on all men's minds. Any guy who acts in a way contrary to that is just repressing it. Women do the same thing.

And again, it's more because there are these constructs cementing over what really goes on under the hood.
Posted By: oldgrognard

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/15/16 08:02 PM

Going to answer the simple question ?
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/15/16 08:08 PM

I don't know the answer to that, and what difference does it make? Does it change what I say? If I worry about what others think for whatever reason they have going on in their heads, than that is sort of my problem, there are all kinds of people in the world who may not like us for whatever reason. Can't be worried about it.

I have never had a woman ever think as bad of me as you might think they do. I have had these very discussions with them in very frank and honest way, and what they say are things like, "Wow. You get it. You are so easy to talk to, most men can't do this." Because it is showing them sympathy to talk to them, knowing the problems they have to face with men. Men are the ones who won't listen to them because they don't consider these things.
Posted By: oldgrognard

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/15/16 08:16 PM

Originally Posted By: Mechanus
I don't know the answer to that, and what difference does it make?


Yeah, you do. You just can't be honest about it because it would establish that you are not doing yourself a good service by continuing with this obsessive mysoginist lecturing.

How about you do a little test. Print off all this thread and take it to a professional mental health counselor. Don't say it is about you or reveal who's who. Just ask for a appraisal from them.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/15/16 08:25 PM

You won't look up what I'm saying, I didn't invent the Helsinki Syndrome nor any of this. Misogynist? It's not my thinking, I say it again, you can do a search on what I'm saying and it will pop up.

This is what's strange to me- no matter how much I say you can find this information yourselves, I didn't invent this, you still think (or maybe you don't, you may just be more interested in not liking me personally above all else.) like it's a figment of my imagination. On some level I understand, because there was a time when I wasn't aware of any of this and it sounds strange. But the difference I was open minded to question my own suppositions, and then it started to click- you rather shoot the messenger. You can look this up yourselves. Has nothing to do with me. If you won't look it up, that's the indication of what's going on.

I'm only showing the connections, so if women seem baffling or strange, it's not me, it's the difference of the sexes. I'm only showing the bridge between the two.

You might look up some of what I'm saying sometime when you're curious, and unless you think I hijacked the Internet and it's all filled with my reports and articles, it's all there without having anything to do with me.

So yes, I can stop talking about it now, it's now up to you to look it up if you want to know more. Remember, I did not invent any of this.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/15/16 09:08 PM

Dammit, I like the way I departed from this thread, but since my ill-written words were quoted previously on this topic...

Mechanus, I think maybe *you* need to look it up.

Rape is a non-consensual criminal violent act and no sane woman would fantasize about being the recipient of it. The "rape fantasy" you speak of is erroneous wording at best, what you're referring to even at its darkest is not a rape fantasy. Look it up.

A mild example might be, in an established loving relationship where you have a long track record of ZERO domestic violence, where she knows there's 0% chance that you'd ever contemplate doing her physical harm even in your worst heated arguments, would be that on *occasion* she might want you to be a little more assertive, especially if your personality tends to be passive. And along the way, don't try to read into a situation what isn't there, she'll clearly let you know if you're crossing a boundary (a verbal concise "No!" or "Stop!" would be a clear indicator, yes?).

I know there are darker examples (there's lots of weird fantasies and fetishes out there) but even those are still consensual (even if one pretends that it's not), and not all fantasies are meant to be experienced, I would think. But since you're not in a steady relationship where trust and communication have already been established, you should probably mind your manners always, else you're playing with fire.

The funny thing is Mechanus, the spicy fun you seem to want in a relationship you could probably have, without the possibility of being dragged off in handcuffs, with a long-term trusting lover. smile
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/15/16 09:36 PM

Mark, I say it again-

You can look it up for yourself. It's nothing I've invented.

The theory goes that in the history of the human species over thousands of years, there has been lots of forced copulations (it's even in the Old Testament- the passages where they were conquering rival tribes they were commanded to kill everyone off but to do with the captive virgins you can just imagine). That is somewhere in the human species. I am not promoting anything, I'm only explaining it.

And there is something wanton in the female member of the species where that is in their wiring. If you believe feminists, all sex is rape. And maybe they have a point in a way, though I am not going to get into that.

But look it up yourself- that is often a fantasy of women to be taken by a strong assertive male, and those kinds of fantasies are strongest during that time of the month, that's when the women are most chemically turned on by the alpha male characteristics, then during the rest of the month they regain their senses and they are more attracted to sensitive beta male provider characteristics. On the other end of the spectrum, lots of guys are turned on by the idea of a passive, submissive female, which is the corollary to that.

So that is the dynamics between the sexes. Again it's just shooting the messenger, or again it's missing the point entirely to say that I say you should do anything.

You see the kinds of art on romantic book covers? Here, have a look- what does it look like? I've explained it before, they're not of a nice guy and a girl having a stroll in the park eating an ice cream and all this bland G rated kind of thing. In fact, the stuff on these book covers are rather tame compared to the freaks that women can be.

http://www.fabioifc.com/page4.html

You'd have to believe that I am the one drawing the book covers in an effort to fool all of you. That's absurd. As I've explained it, the woman is kind of swooning in the presence and in the grip of the male. Now I'm not saying that you go out and find a woman on the street and do this. But I'm saying if you know who you're dealing with, if you are intuitive to the girlfriends wives and women in your lives, you can do more than just the standard boring stuff.

It's your programming as a male in our society to be the nice guy rather than the sexy guy, I understand it, which makes this so hard to believe. It was when I heard women laughing about me and making fun of me for being the nice guy behind my back when I realized I was dealing with something entirely different that I began to rethink everything. Now I know what most men don't. And I get it, it's like explaining the most counter-intuitive thing in the world.



Posted By: oldgrognard

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/15/16 09:46 PM

You keep saying Helsinki Syndrome when it is Stockholm Syndrome. Helsinki Syndrome is an erroneous reference to the Stockholm Syndrome.


https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-difference-between-Stockholm-syndrome-and-Helsinki-syndrome
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/15/16 10:01 PM

Ok, Stockholm Syndrome.

But we have to think from a basis that the sexes can't simply both be passive. It doesn't work, then they never hook up and nothing happens, no offspring. One gender has to be the one to take initiative as a basic principle.

Often times that will be the women but because men are often told to have restraint, to behave, to not assume anything, (or other reasons, the individual man is shy around women, like I was, and that's when I was very unsuccessful) so that in turn puts the woman on the other side of where she does not always want to be, either. They do have some notion in them that the male is the one designed anatomically speaking to be the one to 'put in the work'

It's just a matter of each individual where their comfort zones are, but even in women's fantasies like on those book covers, she's swooning in his grip and all this sort of thing.

Of course reality differs from the fantasy, men often don't behave this way, or when they do it's often ugly and clumsy and sloppy.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/15/16 11:00 PM

Originally Posted By: Mechanus
But look it up yourself- that is often a fantasy of women to be taken by a strong assertive male, and those kinds of fantasies are strongest during that time of the month, that's when the women are most chemically turned on by the alpha male characteristics, then during the rest of the month they regain their senses and they are more attracted to sensitive beta male provider characteristics. On the other end of the spectrum, lots of guys are turned on by the idea of a passive, submissive female, which is the corollary to that.


Someone else's words, not mine...

==========
"When a woman has a 'rape fantasy' it's inside her own mind. The fantasy rapist is a figment (creation) of her own imagination. "He" is totally under her control, a robot. She is not physically harmed in any way. She is not injured. She is not infected with any STDs. She is not impregnated.

In a real male-on-female rape the woman is not in control. She is subdued in some way: frightened stiff, overpowered, drunk, drugged (whether self-administered or not), coerced by some kind of a threat. The man may intend her no injury. But how does she know that? He has already crossed the threshold of decent behavior."
==========

You do see the difference between a so-called "rape fantasy" and an actual rape, don't you? And again, people can fantasize about things that they don't necessarily want to live out, wouldn't you agree?
Posted By: Mad Max

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/15/16 11:15 PM

Am I the only person who finds this stuff repellent?

Anybody else got daughters?
Posted By: kludger

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/15/16 11:49 PM

Originally Posted By: Mad Max
Am I the only person who finds this stuff repellent?

Anybody else got daughters?


Yes Mechanus has some very warped and troubling views about women.

One silver lining of this obsession of posting these cringey "advice on how to pickup women" posts in this thread (and the mods moving his posts here - thankfully) is that at least he stopped with the same obsessive posting about marijuana in every topic like he used to under his old nickname 'Kontakt5'.

Mechanus please get some professional help, it will give you someone to talk to about this stuff that will be interested in hearing your theories and causes for them, and hopefully if you stick with it, eventually it may provide the potential for having normal, rewarding relationships with women someday.
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/16/16 01:12 AM

I understand entirely, believe me- because men are raised to get along and respect women and even worship them and think of them as pure and this sort of thing, they don't understand female attraction and how it works and is not like what they think it is. This happens with both conservative men and liberal who men are raised to think that women are these things that they aren't.

I can only repeat it once more- you can look up for yourselves what I've said about female sexual arousal, you don't have to take my word for it. It's men who are the ones who delude themselves, they don't want to believe that women are like this, because they've been programmed to take care of and nurture what they perceive as the weaker sex. Throughout history, men have sought to dominate and control female sexuality, if they were so 'innocent' and 'nice,' there would be no need to do this.

There are books that have been coming out which explains a whole different side to them. Now, do you guys think I wrote these books? You must. You must have to believe in some grand world conspiracy that I have created the world, I have created all this to fool the few of you here at SimHq. Here is a book that came out that even explained how much more 'perverted' they are than you think:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/16/books/review/what-do-women-want-by-daniel-bergner.html



https://www.amazon.com/What-Do-Women-Want-Adventures/dp/0061906093


Furthermore, I'm saying they're not as weak psychologically as men often think, I think they're much stronger than men, because I'll repeat it again: for tens of thousands of years in our evolutionary period, in many ways it's harder to be a woman who were the ones who had to deal with terminating or aborting pregnancies or being prepared to abandoning their own offspring who weren't going to make it. Men were the battle meat who could come and go and abandon them, or simply force themselves on them. If women didn't develop mechanisms to psychologically deal with it, they wouldn't survive.

Think in much different terms than you've been programmed, and the world looks much different then, and you see women in a different light.
Posted By: TerribleTwo

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/16/16 01:15 AM

Mechanus' rape commentary is similar to the time we had an argument about morality several years ago. Back when he was using the nickname 'DevilM'. Essentially what he does is intellectually dance around the edges of the extreme, insinuatng weird ideas, in this case, that women secretly want rape.

No amount of abuse is going to affect ol' Mechanus. He'll just change his nickname again, and restart with the same stuff.

Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/16/16 01:26 AM

Well, I've said several times upon deaf ears, it's out there for your look up yourselves.

If you want to know more, you can look it up yourselves. None of this comes from me.

See, here is the thing that should be apparent. Men are so ridiculous to the point that even women think they're ridiculous, when it comes to women, men are incapable of being rational. That simply is the point they are incapable of it. I get it on the one hand, because I know men by the same evolutionary and cultural pressures which make women are the same that made men.

Like when you hear women say behind every great man is a great woman, well, if that's true, then are also behind the tyrants as well. The crooks on Wall Street, the world tyrants and all this sort of thing, well, who are the great women behind them? Their wives, their daughters, their girlfriends, mistresses and so on, they all benefit from these types of people, but the women never get the blame for that. Can't have it both ways. Surely you guys have seen mothers and such support their sons who are in prison no matter what they've done.

The male of the species basically lives on the leash attached to women, so they are the reflection of what the women are. If the men are violent or cheats or what have you, that's because somewhere along the line, the women were mating with these very types of guys and those characteristics keep getting passed on.

It's the naive mind of men refusing to see this when it's all right in front of us that is astonishing.

Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/16/16 01:39 AM

Finally, another book I have to recommend, written by a woman, not by me:

https://www.amazon.com/Manipulated-Man-Esther-Vilar/dp/1905177178


This explains how women have for a long time now learned to control men in relationships, and their views of them are vastly different. They don't view men the way men view them.
Posted By: Mad Max

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/16/16 02:06 AM

So he's DevilM as well as Kontakt5?
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/16/16 02:21 AM

Men have it all figured out when it comes to relationships. No one has any problems with them at all. If that is the consensus, then of course nothing can be said on the contrary. I know it's not true, I understand the power women have over them and why they don't want to hear it. If you have problems in your relationships with women, you aren't the only ones. There's nothing unique about it.

Relationships are known to follow fairly uniform patterns for everyone, there's the beginning excitement and passion phase, when that dies down, both partners begin to see things in a different light, they begin to see each other differently than they did in the beginning and that's where they begin to learn to be with one another despite their faults, and they realize the inherent friction between each other. This can be a testing phase, and as others have said it's an endurance race.

I think people deliberately hide these things from themselves, and from each other, and it's going to keep continuing like this. No one wants to hear it, they don't like talking about it, if we all do this, then it has no choice but to keep doing this.
Posted By: Zamzow

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/16/16 03:13 AM

Hey Mechanus, aka Kontact, aka DevilM.... what happened to you?

I used to think highly of a lot of your posts ten or twelve years ago...
Posted By: Mechanus

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/16/16 03:25 AM

I'm not trying to do anything here but explain something that's been on my mind for several years. If you have any notion about women that they didn't seem quite right to you, I've been there too, most men today in modern society the way are raised are probably unaware of it in some way or another.

I don't get involved with women in long term relationships anymore, the patterns I've seen with them tell me it's not a good idea.

If I had a son, I would have a talk with him about this stuff because it ain't like the movies. It's not to say I blame men or women, neither can really help the way they are. But men can help themselves and each other the way women have, the way women share information and talk about men and know what they're doing whereas men unfortunately just often avoid the topic. That may be good in a way, because it keeps them shackled to the way things are, but to take a quote from the jacket of that book:

"Men have been conditioned by women like dogs like the way Pavlov conditioned his dogs."

I think women and men exist to teach each other something, women teach us what we are supposed to be based on how they interact with us and how they choose to associate with us, by virtue of that, they teach us something about ourselves and the human race.
Posted By: MarkG

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/16/16 03:26 AM

I'm starting to zone out of this thread, wanted to include a more uplifting thought...

I was an accident (lol - joke's on them smile ), born on my parent's 10th wedding anniversary (see my Music -> Brit Floyd thread if you want a visual of my folks) which means that this Aug. 31 they'll have been married 59 years. Their marriage wasn't always great and neither was mine, but in both cases we held it together and later turned it around.

When I think about it, my wife and mother have many similarities as do my father and I (the negative ones get better with each generation, I suppose). If my wife and I can at least manage to have their contentment with each other, their marriage and life in general when we reach their age (assuming we live to be in our late 70's and beyond), we'll have considered our life together to be a success.

The plan is to one day hold her wrinkly old hand on the front porch rockers and say, "Wow, what a hell of a ride!" biggrin

All that gibberish you wrote and linked to Mechanus, whoosh! Right over my head!
Posted By: Zamzow

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/16/16 05:18 AM

DevilM used to post some seriously incisive and "on point" commentary.


It's sad to see a guy like that doing this.
Posted By: Murphy

Re: Observations and advice on relationships - 07/16/16 12:09 PM

This thread is closed.
Your posts are threatening to women.

Mechanus, you have one day to reply to my PM.

Refrain from posting, until then.

Murphy.
© 2024 SimHQ Forums