B-17 "Liberty Belle" Down

http://www.wthr.com/story/14893917/vintage-plane-crashes-in-illinois

Wow, that's just devastating. Glad everyone got out OK, but that's a terrible loss of an aircraft.

That is bad news.
Looks like they all survived though.

Damn...
Love to see these old bids flying but they seem to all eventually end that way Afterall, they were never meant to clock so many flying hours.
At least the crew walked away from this one.

Cheers,
Slug

A buddy of mine works on the other side of the airport where my base is and is supposed to be getting a B-17 in for avionics upgrades in a week or two. Hope this wasn't that one.

Some of the stories seem to indicate that he landed in a field due to an onboard fire, which continued after they escaped.

http://www.wlsam.com/Article.asp?id=2211477&spid=

This breaks my heart.

Terrible news. The Liberty Belle is the B-17 I took a ride in several years ago. What a loss of a great aircraft.

+1

That was the first thing I thought when I saw the thread. Terrible. I had hoped that it would some day come up here and I could go for a ride as well.
So sad to see these old birds go. I am happy that everybody survived.

And to think that just a couple of weeks ago, I saw that same bird flying around in KC.

Damn, that is bad news...

how many are there left (flying or static)?

Taken from Wiki...

http://www.simhq.com/_air5/air_175a.html

Assuming Wiki is to be believed,she was grounded the week before for mechanical problems.

What awful news.


Wheels

Frankly, It's pretty weird seeing as the airplanes I fly are based at the Sugar Grove airport. I took a few friends up in a 182RG yesterday and we all stopped to look at it for about 30 minutes. Next day it's gone. The crew are supposedly on their way back here right now, and people have been talking to the chase plane pilot.

And yes, when I was out at the airport yesterday, it was still grounded due to a crack in the fuel tank. They sealed it and that was that.

Waiting on the B17 crew to get here, but for someone reason everyone has left but they left their mechanics trailer here. So I'm assuming they're coming back. I'll keep you guys updated

I thought that same thing!!

Poor girl... she had a good life.

Another magnificent, beautiful bird that will never grace the skies again. I am super-glad that everyone walked away, though.

I'm really really glad all got out ok! Still, a great loss none-the-less...

Fire in the cockpit, wow they were lucky it could have been much worse.

There is no sound but the video is bad enough without it.

http://youtu.be/qePZ4Z36mNQ


Wheels

As an A&P aircraft mechanic myself, an onboard fire and a recently sealed cracked fuel tank issue might add up. If you don't mix the B-1/2 sealant well enough it won't set up and cure right. I don't know the facts yet, just my own observation.

BTW, received word from my buddy who was supposed to install the avionics upgrade to a B-17 and this is the aircraft that was supposed to be here in Ft Wayne. They were going to have an open house at the avionics company he's working for in a couple weeks and use that as a static display.

I feel for the person who did the tank repair. If the fire was caused by an improperly sealed fuel tank the person who did the repair is going to feel like dirt.


Wheels

Sucks, and very sad for the people who look after her, but you have to look on the brightside. They all walked away.

On the positive side, she didn't go out rusting away in a field covered in foliage with animals nesting inside.



The Jedi Master

And even brighter side she wasn't scrapped at the end of the WWII like most others. She had a good life and everyone made it out but it's still a tragic end to such an amazing aircraft. My Grandfather served on B-17s so this hits home.

A common enough sight nearly seventy years ago, but mercifully, LB was the only casualty in this incident.

Always sad to see an old bird go. I'm glad this crashing B-17 didn't claim any other lives though.

Cheers

Nico

She is off to join her sisters that never made the return flight 70 years ago.

Very sad to see but its great that all onboard got out OK. This seems to be an all too common occurance with these old aircraft.

Heh, yea I guess they'd all go, one way or another outside of a museum (which is still no guarantee).

As I heard an R/C pilot say about his hundreds of hours and dollars invested in a beautiful model that was reduced to wrinkled paper and balsa chips in an instant... If you don't want to crash them, don't fly them.

Quite sad watching that film of the burning wreck. Really scary if it was a cockpit fire, or a fuel tank fire, I'm so very glad they all were able to get on the ground and escape.

Darn
Well at least she brought the crew down alive!

This is sad, and it crashed about a half hour away from me. Glad everyone made it out.

Oh my, what sad news.

Well, it's been a hell of a day to say the least. There are definitely days where you think you should have just gone back to bed. I can't comment on details really (don't know much more than what's in the news postings anyway) - but I talked with Ray briefly and apparently he had just left the airport by a few minutes in the Liberty Foundation's P-40 on their way to their next stop in Indiana. He turned around when the incident occurred and has been dealing with this all day - he's in emergency mode right now, so I just more or less expressed my sympathy and let him get back to it.

The death of this fine lady comes as a shock and I feel sad for the loss but I feel a bit philosophical at the same time. I feel that it would have been a bigger tragedy to keep this warbird locked up in a museum. She had a devoted family of mechanics, pilots, crew, and volunteers to keep her airworthy and a plane like that needs to spread her wings.

I was only ever a volunteer, but I will cherish the time I was able to spend showing people the aircraft and the flights I had for the rest of my life.

Rest in peace Liberty Belle, thank you for getting your final crew on the ground safe.

Like so many of her sisters who made it back, but never flew again, she brought her crew home. What better can you say about an airplane?
I hope someone, somewhere, is restoring another one.

Damn shame.

I've been in this plane 3 times and flew in it once. My heart sinks to hear of her loss.
Thankfully everyone is alive.

They'll retrieve a data plate and the tailwheel and somehow rebuild everything around around those two parts... we'll see Liberty Belle flying again in no time!

Well, if your going to have to "improvise" a landing in a flaming aircraft, there aren't many better alternatives than a B-17.

Even in the year 2011, she still proved to be tough as nails, and keep her crew alive.

RIP

Odd, looks like no propellers were moving during the crash or they would be bent. One feathered on inboard left. Wonder what happened?

I could see that happening.

RIP Liberty Belle

"She brought her crew home"
S! Liberty Belle

Gear were down.

Yes I was going to add, the fire is what probably caused the plane to nose forward once stopped and the wings to detach from the fuselage. She probably landed well in that field!

Nice picture! Any chanse there is a high resolution one?

Too sad with Liberty Belle

If it had to happen, better with a trained crew only on board than carrying civilians enjoying a Fathers Day treat. Could of been a much worse tragedy.
I presume looking at the pix that some components will be able to be salvaged anfd may give life to another vintage bird hopefully.
Very sad.

From what I can tell, the landing was simply a 'forced landing'. The damage to the airframe was caused by the fire, not the landing itself. This would explain why the props weren't bent.

Linky:
Liberty Belle

The pilot deserves a medal under the circumstances!
The facts speak for themselves... Perfect three point on a wing and a prayer!
And there maybe life in those engines, yet!

Sad to lose the old girl, but Duxford is just putting the finishing touches on another babe!
Mary Alice...
http://www.culture24.org.uk/history+%26+heritage/war+%26+conflict/world+war+two/art355322
http://www.ww2f.com/wwii-today/51467-restoring-b17-mary-alice.html

check this out for FACTS

liberty belle offical webpage

I feel totally opposite from you, but I guess why opinions are like @ssholes, everybody's got one...

Too bad she couldn't have been preserved for future generations, and maybe they could have used her for a painstaking perfect rebuild some day. Anyway, it is not that sad regarding B-17s, because a lot of those are still flying. But the unique remaining types that some people keep flying... Well, that is just a disaster when they go down.

Here's more info from the Liberty Foundation on the loss:

http://www.libertyfoundation.org/index.html

It sounds to me like there was minimal damage from the landing, and the firetrucks could have put the fire out but didn't want to get stuck on the wet field, so they didn't go in.

this is why they shouldn't fly these planes except for special occasions because the odds of them crashing is too high they got their crew though the war and should be left in peace to rest, but on the upside at least the crew got clear.

That's wrong. I can understand for a typical plane, but for a historical plane like that, do whatever you can to attempt to save it.

Liberty Bell was in a museum and was damaged in a Tornado before they restored her. So "Safe" in a museum is not necessarily correct.

I shudder to think what might happen at Planes of Fame, Yanks Air museum, Palm Springs Air museum, or the March Air museum, or any air museum in California during a really big earthquake. The loss of historic aircraft safely tucked away in a museum could be immense.


Wheels

Reading that made me boil. The fire department exists to take risks in order to save life and property. What is the cost of a pulling a stuck fire truck out of the mud compared to the value of an aircraft, especially one like "Liberty Belle"?

while it is true they CAN be damaged in a place like a museum, a museum that is properly protect the odds of a plane destoryed beyond repair are slimer then when it crashes.

So long as there are more than a handful of examples still in existence the B17's, and other warbirds, should keep flying. That is what they were intended to do, not sit and collect dust. There are already several B17's on permanent static display, the flying ones don't endanger those at all.

While it's nice to look at airplanes in a museum, nothing compares to seeing one fly right over your head. They are airplanes...fly 'em.

I seen a 'Lanc and then was able to touch it. It was beautiful. I thought I was pretty lucky. Later, it flew low over me. The previous sensations did not compare.

That is an misconception on your part about the effectiveness of the museums. Due to their size several museums are storing their B-17's outside and they are cared for less often than Liberty Belle or any of the other flyable B-17's. Birds and the weather are taking their toll on them and every aircraft stored outdoors every day. Most museums just don't have the money to build hangars big enough to house them or the personnel to dedicate to maintenance on a daily basis.

This site will give you a decent overview of the static B-17's on display and how they are displayed.
http://www.johnweeks.com/b17static/index.html
When time, weather, and the birds destroy these examples all that will be left of them is the pictures too. IMO, How fast that happens will be dependent on our support of the museums and the condition of the airframes after 70 years of being stored outdoors in the elements. It was amazing to me when I was shown by the aircraft restorers at Planes of Fame how an aircraft can look perfectly sound but the amount of deterioration that is unseen is huge.

I am not making a statement against the museums either. The museum's I have visited are staffed by extremely dedicated yet overworked volunteers who want to do more but can't due to money constraints. If it were up to them all of their planes would be maintained daily and have appropriate shelter from the elements.


Also, IMO without the flyable legacy aircraft to keep generating new interest in the warbirds the museums will wither and die on the vine causing all of their collections to end up being scrapped.


Wheels

A crash like this can certainly bring up concerns, but kind of echoing other posts, seeing an airplane in a museum doesn't really give anyone the complete historical picture of what they were like. Sure you can see them there, but you don't hear the engines, you don't feel what it was like when they flew overhead, so having them only in museums is a bit of a disservice to history, to me.

I've been lucky enough to actually fly on a B-24, which my father worked on and flew a few non-combat missions on back in WWII, so being able to fly on one really made me feel more connected to his youth, and I'm so glad I was able to have that experience.

And again echoing Wheels, those types of activities generate interest for many, helping to keep them supported and maybe even interest someone a bit more in history.

As a pilot of and tinkerer with several vintage planes, including several Tiger Moths and Europe's only flying Fairchild PT-19 Cornell, I can't understand those who say vintage planes are better off in museums. There is simply no comparison between touching one in a museum and the sensation of seeing and hearing one fly before you.

S! to the Liberty Belle. She brought her crew safely down, like so many other B-17s before her.

I am so sad right now

Just a nitpicking observation about the title of the link to this thread on the SIMHQ home page, and some posts in it, the aircraft did not crash. It made an emergency landing. Only after landing was the aircraft destroyed due to their not being able to put out the fire.

Happy b'day Dogsbd.

I know,

Not able? Correction not trying to put out the fire.

Well, when I posted this it had just been reported on the news and there were no facts.