Bought a Jeep Wrangler for my daughters 16th B-day last month... teaching her to drive stick, today was the first day on the public road... needless to say people in general are impatient.... so I made up a sign.
I tried to teach my wife stick a year or so ago. She just could not grasp it but to be fair neither could I at first. The problem is that driving stick is all about feel. You can explain it a thousand ways and still not get the method across. I have always wondered if buying a clutch wheel for the PC and having her drive rFactor or some other racing sim would help or if it would just make things worse.
Magnum's teaching his daughter to drive in a straight line by following a carrot attached to a stick on the bonnet (or 'hood' as they call it). It's a well known fact that American cars don't handle properly, so driving them as straight as possible at all times is very important.
I tried to teach my wife stick a year or so ago. She just could not grasp it but to be fair neither could I at first. The problem is that driving stick is all about feel. You can explain it a thousand ways and still not get the method across. I have always wondered if buying a clutch wheel for the PC and having her drive rFactor or some other racing sim would help or if it would just make things worse.
The method I learned on, after failing with other people trying to teach me and that has worked very well with those I taught it to is simple:
Go to a big, flat parking lot at night. Put the student in the drivers seat. Take the car out of gear and remove the parking break. Have them press the clutch in and put the car into gear. Then, without ever touching the gas, raise the clutch VERY, VERY slowly until transmission fully engages. Then explain to them that they need to develop a feel for adding gas to make the whole process happen in a more practical amount of time, being even more aggressive if they are going uphill. Once i got that part of it down, it was simply a matter of developing the feel.
I remember when I was learning stick, the instructor took me to a neighbourhood in Toronto called the beach, it's really hilly area and there are always a ton of people there. People were not very patient with me and I did more than one burnout.
I learned to drive on a stick. It wasn't all that hard, but I'll admit to stalling it several times at first. Then learning to drive on an automatic was duck soup. IMO, it's much more difficult to start on an automatic and then learn a stick than vice-versa.
My grandfather was able to teach me how to drive a manual shift when everyone else who tried (my dad, my uncle,and my boyfriend) failed. I was 16 at the time.
The trick Papaw showed me is real simple. Keep your left heel on the floor when the clutch is in all the way and pivot your foot on it. Let the pedal slip up and down your foot. You can control it engaging easier. To this day I still do this when accelerating away from a stoplight, from a full stop, and I've owned several high-performance V-8 cars over the years, two of which had competition clutches installed.
First thing I drove had a stick (Massey-Ferguson tractor). LOL
The first road vehicle I ever drove was a 1949 Chevy pick-up the hired-hands used on the ranch. Three on the tree that would lock up if you didn't shift it JUST right.
First thing I drove had a stick (Massey-Ferguson tractor). LOL
The first road vehicle I ever drove was a 1949 Chevy pick-up the hired-hands used on the ranch. Three on the tree that would lock up if you didn't shift it JUST right.
Ever used a floor starter???
Ding Ding Ding!!!
Learned to drive on a '51 Chevy Coupe on the country roads. 3 speed on the Tree. Wow did I learn to PULL into 2nd gear rather than PUSH into Reverse! Tough car. went from 1st-Reverse several times.
As long as I have a left foot Ill be driving a manual transmission. Much more involved and interactive, I love it. My Toyota wagon is a 5 speed (well 6 with the Extra Low gear available in 4WD) and we bought our new car with a standard too.
Never had anyone teach me to use the stick. Learned it all on my own after buying 66 Chevy 3/4 ton with a 3 in the tree. Did not take more then 30 minutes to figure it out. Learned on a motorcycle when I was 13, by time I was 16 it nothing to transfer the knowledge and feel.
I like the sign and also like the idea about adding the note about being a K9 handler in fine print, that would be awesome.
Friend taught me in a parking lot behind the hospital at Luke AFB. I thought I was ok and later on she kept commenting about "I'm going to burn the clutch out". I stopped driving her car because as an Amn in dorms I had very little money and didn't want to spend it that way. Since then I haven't driven a stick, however I do ride a bike but I don't think the two are the same. I only use the clutch for starting and starting off from a stop, after that I shift without it.
We don't have a choice over here, and it's definitely one of the toughest parts of learning to drive. People going from manual to stick have the advantage of already knowing the rules of the road and how to manoeuver a car. We have to figure it all at the same time. Signs, steering, shifting gears, operating the clutch. Fun times. Stalling the car in the middle of a busy junction was always great fun
In the end it's really a question of getting used to it and getting the 'feel'.
I've never tried automatic but I don't think I'll be confident with it, because I rely on shifting to lower gears so much for breaking. How do you even do it in an automatic ?
and this thread, in a nutshell, demonstrates why the last American F1 champion was 33 years ago, and why the last non-American winner of the Indy 500 was... last year. And the year before. And the year before that...
Interesting discussion. I don't think anyone I know drives an automatic over here in Britain. I've certainly never met anyone who learned to drive in one. To be honest, I don't even think I've ever seen or been in an automatic. Actually, that's wrong: my granddad had one briefly in the 80s but that's the only one I've ever been in.
I take it learning to drive in an automatic is predominant over there?
I've had 2 auto's in my long history of cars and I would have one again. It has to be in the right car though. Both were large capacity V6's (2.8 petrol and 3.0 diesel) and they were lovely to drive. One foot to go/stop and one hand to steer
About all driving classes here are done on stick shifts. It used to be that if you got taught on automatics, your license would have a note saying you were only licenses to drive automatics.
I have an 89 honda civic and I dont down shift any time I need to break or corner I throw it in neutral and then brake and regear. The reason is that the clutch and transmission are more expensive than break pads. When I drive a truck though I gear down and double clutch where needed.
I think that for city driving and heavy traffic, an automatic gearbox is the more comfortable option. I currently have one and I have to say I do enjoy it. Before I had a manual, and admittedly manual is more fun when driving on a country road or something like that. But at the moment I almost exclusively drive in the city so the automatic is just fine.
But, after having driven a Ferrari 458 last year, I think the future belongs to the dual clutch transmission. It was the first car that I've driven with such a gearbox and I have to say that those things are just marvelous, and one can always shift by using the paddles on the steering wheel.
Interesting discussion. I don't think anyone I know drives an automatic over here in Britain. I've certainly never met anyone who learned to drive in one. To be honest, I don't even think I've ever seen or been in an automatic. Actually, that's wrong: my granddad had one briefly in the 80s but that's the only one I've ever been in.
I take it learning to drive in an automatic is predominant over there?
It's so bad over here that the military trucks are going to automatic transmissions. So many people have never driven anything with a clutch so it's easier to re-equip the trucks with autos.
What's even worse is they are now coming out with cars that parallel park themselves. A relatively simple maneuver that most people can't seem to master...
What's even worse is they are now coming out with cars that parallel park themselves. A relatively simple maneuver that most people can't seem to master...
I just saw an advert on TV with a car that did that about five minutes ago! Mental! Something about that approach just seems like the beginning of a really bad idea. The same car comes with a sensor that brakes for you if the vehicle in front stops suddenly. Hope it puts those brakes on gently: I wouldn't want them to interrupt anyones snooze!
What's even worse is they are now coming out with cars that parallel park themselves. A relatively simple maneuver that most people can't seem to master...
I expect that within the next 20 years or so we'll start to see "automatic driver" options on cars. In 50 years it may be as common as automatic transmissions are today.
I for one hope so. Even though I have a relatively short commute it's still an hour each day wasted.
i agree about the get the feel part down, i drive a eaton fullon (sp?) 18 speed tranny in my semi, i dont look at the tack or speedometer anymore, i shift all 18 up and down by feel alone.
I taught myself to drive stick in a '78 Pinto. Just because it was a Pinto, people tended to keep a good distance behind it.
For the uninitiated, there was a certain year when the Pinto had a faulty gas tank design that didn't require too much rear impact for it to explode. Here is a scene from the World War 2 parody movie Top Secret to illustrate this trait:
It's so bad over here that the military trucks are going to automatic transmissions. So many people have never driven anything with a clutch so it's easier to re-equip the trucks with autos.
The main reason is that today's automatics are just as strong and reliable as a stick. It also means 1 less thing for a soldier to do in the heat of battle. I'd rather have my rifle pointing out the window and using my right hand to return fire, rather than shifting.
I've seen automatics killed from plowing snow, but that's because people slam them from drive to reverse and back. That worked fine in the old days, but with computer controlled automatics a little more finesse is needed. You finish your push, shift, raise/lower the blade to give the tranny time to go into gear, and then give it fuel.
Also, if a truck only has the transmission cooler in the radiator, install the biggest aftermarket model that will fit behind the grille. A thermostat to keep fluid from going through the aftermarket cooler until it's warmed up is a good idea, too.
The trick Papaw showed me is real simple. Keep your left heel on the floor when the clutch is in all the way and pivot your foot on it. Let the pedal slip up and down your foot. You can control it engaging easier. To this day I still do this when accelerating away from a stoplight, from a full stop, and I've owned several high-performance V-8 cars over the years, two of which had competition clutches installed.
Miao, Cat
I tried this in my pickup just now, and either you can flex your foot all the way back so your toes touch your shin or the throw on my F350's clutch pedal is a lot longer than yours LOL. The nice thing about a diesel is I can pretty much just lift my foot off the clutch with no feathering at all and it goes with no shuddering or fuss - and that's in 2nd gear (2.37:1) in a ~7000lb truck. Even loaded down with about 3000lb of snow on the bed I only had to use 1st gear (4.14:1) when starting on a hill.
i agree about the get the feel part down, i drive a eaton fullon (sp?) 18 speed tranny in my semi, i dont look at the tack or speedometer anymore, i shift all 18 up and down by feel alone.
Yep, used to do the same with a 13 speed. It's all about understanding the piece of equipment you're operating.
As stated in the uk there are very few chances to drive automatics, however I was tasked with driving one once, taking some chap around testing tomtom routing around the midlands.
Having never driven a automatic it soon became apparent to me that I should not use the left foot to stab at the clutch peddle when I found my passenger crumpled between the dash and the window screen whilst coming up to traffic lights.... he put his seat belt on soon after
I learned by watching what my parents did with their hands and feet while they drove and at the same time imagined myself doing it. So when I first tried it I actually had a pretty good feel for it already. I didn't even stall the engine So take your daughter out for a drive and tell her to do the same, perhaps it will improve her understanding of it, it certainly won't hurt.
Oh, in Sweden we learn on manual shift cars (the licence obviously include automatics), but like MadDog said we also have "automatic only" licences, mainly for people with handicaps.
Thanks for answering my question. I don't even drive but I've NEVER seen the point of manual transmission. Why make more work for yourself and make a mundane task more complicated than it has to be? You guys got the right idea!
I've NEVER seen the point of manual transmission. Why make more work for yourself and make a mundane task more complicated than it has to be? You guys got the right idea!
The only way I would want a manual transmission is if I had a high performance car. I live in a major city which often has congested traffic conditions so a manual transmission would be completely impractical.
The point is they were around for over 50 years before automatics even began to come along. The newer automatics are a lot better, but still don't give you the amount of control over the vehicle that a manual does. And IMO sticks are just a LOT more fun to drive in certain vehicles - for example, I would NEVER get a Jeep with an automatic even though I'm pretty much impartial for every other vehicle.
Wow. vocatx and I must've had the same parents because the first vehicle I ever drove had a standard, a Massey-Ferguson tractor. I learned how to drive a truck with a standard by Dad turning me loose in a hay field with a 1973 GMC dually pickup with a three-on-the-tree.
Yeah I realize that manual transmission came first, but I perhaps should have said 'today', as to why would you opt for manual transmission today when automatic is available.
Yeah I realize that manual transmission came first, but I perhaps should have said 'today', as to why would you opt for manual transmission today when automatic is available.
I'd say the main reason people buy them today is either because that's what they've always had or because they just find them to be more fun to drive. Driving my pickup with manual tranny is nothing special, but when I had my Jeep there was nothing like dropping down a gear to slow down when approaching a corner or sharp curve, then grabbing a higher gear about halfway through and accelerating out - whether on the road or off. I always took the back roads when I had to go somewhere, because it was just so much fun to drive on those curvy, twisty routes. And off-road, 1st gear and low range let me idle up & over footlocker-sized rocks, up hills so steep you'd swear you were going over backwards, and down those same hills without excessive tire spin or having to use the brakes and risk sliding. Since an automatic doesn't have a direct mechanical coupling to the engine, you can only use the engine to slow you down up to a point then you're basically freewheeling.
Lastly, with a manual tranny you can often start off 1 gear higher than usual in snowy or icy conditions, to help reduce the chance of wheelspin.
Sadly, I believe the majority of transmissions in the U.S are automatic. My "fun" car is manual, but my daily driver is auto. The only reason I choose the auto transmission on my daily driver was for the remote starter for all those cold Vermont winter mornings.
I've talked with European friends about the disparity quite a bit. I think it boils down to how driving is viewed in the cultures. Europeans tend to view driving as a hobby, whereas most americans tend to view it as a chore and the car is an appliance for getting from point A to point B.
I have an 89 honda civic and I dont down shift any time I need to break or corner I throw it in neutral and then brake and regear. The reason is that the clutch and transmission are more expensive than break pads. When I drive a truck though I gear down and double clutch where needed.
I am a little puzzled at this Master. I have never had a problem or ever met a person who has damaged a gearbox/transmission through using the gears to assist with braking. Obviously you don't want to drop from 4th or 5th straight into 2nd at speed, but stepping down through the gears in sequence won't hurt anything. Shifting into neutral (or using the clutch prematurely) drastically reduces the braking action available to you. Each to their own of course .
My housemate learned on a manual transmission and then drove an automatic after that. His experience was that being required to manage the gearbox meant his mind was more fully engaged with the act of driving - when he was driving the automatic, he found he was paying less attention to the road and his driving became worse.
I enjoy driving, and using the manual gearbox very quickly became automatic anyway. Occasionally I'll change gear and change my mind about which gear to go into halfway through, then accidentally put it into 2nd gear at 40mph. This alarms the passengers. And in a typical long-distance journey I'll attempt to shift into 6th gear every thirty minutes or so before remembering halfway through that my car only has 5 gears! I'll always prefer manual transmission for two reasons: a) the folklore is that manual transmissions are more reliable and easier to fix and b) anyone I teach to drive in my car will get a full license, not an automatic-only license.
There was a cartoon I've been meaning to draw for years now. It shows the difference between European and American cars. European cars are basically a giant shoe or rollerskate, like a kind of clothing that you strap onto yourself that enables you to move around at 70mph. American cars are like a mobile living room where you sit and wait for your destination to appear around you!
Actually, US cars are starting to become more like their European counterparts these days. A lot of that may be due to increased fuel costs (yes, the cost of fuel here is still very cheap compared to European prices, but it is a lot more expensive than it used to be.
My dad had an Opel cadet, 4 cylinder with a 4 speed tranny, back in the 1960's when I was learning, and being in the mountains, you had to learn clutching on hills right off, and holding on hills without the brake was handy. It took a bit of practice to move from left foot on the clutch, right on the brake, to right on the gas, while letting out the clutch just to the point of engagement, so you don't roll back.
Living in a neighborhood without much traffic helped.
There was a cartoon I've been meaning to draw for years now. It shows the difference between European and American cars. European cars are basically a giant shoe or rollerskate, like a kind of clothing that you strap onto yourself that enables you to move around at 70mph. American cars are like a mobile living room where you sit and wait for your destination to appear around you!
Heh. Years ago, there were never any coffee cup holders in any of the old german cars I would drive. That's a bit aggravating for Americans.
Also worth noting that an auto loses around 5mpg to the equivalent manual - with petrol at ~£1.40/l ($8.74/usg) over here (UK) that's a not inconsiderable saving.
Maybe in the old days of non-locking converters and no overdrive, but a modern electronically-controlled automatic with a similar overdrive ratio will get fuel mileage so close to that of a manual that for all intents & purposes they're equal. Moreover, driving style will have a much bigger effect on mileage with a manual than with an automatic. If you drive by the shift light you'll get the best mileage (obviously, don't shift into 5th at 30mph while climbing a grade even if the light comes on then.)
Having driven auto and manual, I prefer a manual gearbox every time (apart from the porridge-stirring one on the Peugeot courtesy thing my wife has while her Audi is fixed).
Manual gives better economy and a nicer driving experience. Auto gives more relaxation and a better passenger experience. A bad driver with a manual shift can be a nightmare to ride with!
I learned to drive manual transmission in the Canadian Military, in a Deuce and 1/2. I still prefer manual, my pickup is manual trans 4x4 fun to drive especially in the winter. It's all about feeling that "friction point" when the clutch grabs, and giving gas. it has to be a smooth transition, too fast and you stall.
I have driven manual for 20 years but have just recently bought my first automatic. It's a nice drive but I prefer the control I feel I have with a manual. In NZ on the East Coast where I live there are a lot of hills to traverse if you want to do any long distance travel. That's where I miss my manual.
My dad had an Opel cadet, 4 cylinder with a 4 speed tranny, back in the 1960's when I was learning, and being in the mountains, you had to learn clutching on hills right off, and holding on hills without the brake was handy. It took a bit of practice to move from left foot on the clutch, right on the brake, to right on the gas, while letting out the clutch just to the point of engagement, so you don't roll back.
That's another difference between European and American cars. What's with the American-style parking brake? All the cars I've driven here have a great big lever between the gearstick and the driver's seat which, when pulled upwards, applies the brakes in a very definite way. Hill starts are straightforward because you're controlling your brakes with your left hand (in a right-hand-drive car), the clutch with your left foot, and the throttle with the right foot. Elaborate dance moves unnecessary! But it seems American-style cars use some crazy handle that you pull out of the dashboard that doesn't have much effect on whatever the wheels are deciding to do...
Daftest parking brake was in the Mercedes Vito. Right-hand-drive. The parking brake was applied with a pedal left of the clutch, and released with a handle on the dashboard right of the steering wheel. So you can't apply the parking brake while pressing the clutch. So you must put the car into neutral before you can put the parking brake on. This is very dangerous when stopping in traffic because if the car behind hits you while the car's in neutral and with only the footbrake on, the driver will recoil backwards and release the footbrake and your car then cannons into the car in front. Which is your liability.
Then again, the pneumatic parking brakes on the buses I drove for three years, which could take several seconds to release if they weren't correctly maintained (and they never were), made traffic lights with a short green period quite frustrating to pass...
Originally Posted By: NH2112
Maybe in the old days of non-locking converters and no overdrive, but a modern electronically-controlled automatic with a similar overdrive ratio will get fuel mileage so close to that of a manual that for all intents & purposes they're equal. Moreover, driving style will have a much bigger effect on mileage with a manual than with an automatic. If you drive by the shift light you'll get the best mileage (obviously, don't shift into 5th at 30mph while climbing a grade even if the light comes on then.)
Another cultural difference - no car I've driven has had a gear-change light!
That's another difference between European and American cars. What's with the American-style parking brake? All the cars I've driven here have a great big lever between the gearstick and the driver's seat which, when pulled upwards, applies the brakes in a very definite way. Hill starts are straightforward because you're controlling your brakes with your left hand (in a right-hand-drive car), the clutch with your left foot, and the throttle with the right foot. Elaborate dance moves unnecessary! But it seems American-style cars use some crazy handle that you pull out of the dashboard that doesn't have much effect on whatever the wheels are deciding to do...
Daftest parking brake was in the Mercedes Vito. Right-hand-drive. The parking brake was applied with a pedal left of the clutch, and released with a handle on the dashboard right of the steering wheel. So you can't apply the parking brake while pressing the clutch. So you must put the car into neutral before you can put the parking brake on. This is very dangerous when stopping in traffic because if the car behind hits you while the car's in neutral and with only the footbrake on, the driver will recoil backwards and release the footbrake and your car then cannons into the car in front. Which is your liability.
Why not simply put the car in neutral and hold the car stationary with your right foot on the service brake pedal, then work the pedals in the normal manner when it's time to go?
Most larger American cars and trucks have the parking brake pedal to the left of the clutch as well, with the release either being a T-handle under the dash or a 2nd push on the pedal. My Jeep had the park brake handle between the driver's seat and gearshift, but that's just for parking. To me it seems more troublesome to have to bring a hand into the equation, instead of just quickly moving your right foot from the service brake pedal to the accelerator while letting the clutch out. That's always been the way I've done it even on the steepest hills, and I can count the number of times I've stalled or rolled backwards in the past 25 years on the fingers of 1 hand. The only time I did it differently was while out 4-wheelin' in my Jeep, when I'd just start the engine in 1st gear if I stalled on a hill (Jeeps have a fuse you can remove that bypasses the clutch pedal switch, to let you start in gear.)
Originally Posted By: Dozer
Then again, the pneumatic parking brakes on the buses I drove for three years, which could take several seconds to release if they weren't correctly maintained (and they never were), made traffic lights with a short green period quite frustrating to pass...
That's why you watch the crossing thoroughfare's light and release the brake, shift into gear, and make yourself ready to roll when the crossing light turns yellow.
Originally Posted By: Dozer
Another cultural difference - no car I've driven has had a gear-change light!
I think it's more to do with computerized engine & powertrain controls letting you know when you're operating outside the engine's optimal area WRT fuel economy, based on throttle position, vehicle speed, and engine RPM. Shift lights didn't show up till the first feedback carburetors came on the scene in the early 80s.
Why not simply put the car in neutral and hold the car stationary with your right foot on the service brake pedal, then work the pedals in the normal manner when it's time to go?
Because if someone hits the back of your car in that state, the impact will relax your pressure on the brake pedal and your car will shoot forward.
Quote:
That's why you watch the crossing thoroughfare's light and release the brake, shift into gear, and make yourself ready to roll when the crossing light turns yellow.
Unfortunately the bus company had specifically prohibited this. Releasing the handbrake before it was safe to move == black mark from undercover driving inspectors. Happily there were no covert driving inspectors!
Why not simply put the car in neutral and hold the car stationary with your right foot on the service brake pedal, then work the pedals in the normal manner when it's time to go?
Because if someone hits the back of your car in that state, the impact will relax your pressure on the brake pedal and your car will shoot forward.
I guess that makes sense. I've been hit from the back while sitting at a stop sign in my truck, though, with the truck in gear, right foot on the brake pedal, and left foot ready to lift off the clutch as a car went in front of me on the crossing road, and my right foot stayed in place. My left foot came off the clutch pedal and stalled the engine, though.
Over here, you're very unlikely to be ticketed if being hit from the back by someone else pushes you forward into the back of another car. There's really just no way to prevent it. You could leave 50 feet between your car and the one in front of you, and if a large truck hits you you'll probably still hit the one in front of you even with the parking brake on.
A manual transmission makes you a better driver as you have to be aware of what is going on around you.
Almost wrecked the brothers Vette because I had a momentary lapse, forgetting it was an automatic (had a Triumph GT6+ at the time). Yup hit the clutch, err brake, and moved the console stick while going into a turn. Locked up the rear end and went sideways just missing the curb and the pole just beyond. Young reflects saved the day.
American cars, at least back in the day, were heavy. Could always tell if someone drove a manual as the left leg was always bigger than the right leg.
The best time to learn a manual is in the winter when there is some snow on the ground > less likely to stall. Or on dirt if there is no snow.
I love stick shifts. With the exception of one car I owned (and hated), they have all been sticks. I hate automatics. I hate not having full control of the transmission, especially in the winter time. It was because I was driving a stick that I was able to avoid some pretty bad accidents because I was able to throw the car into neutral and maneuver on momentum and judgment re-applying power only when it was safe to do so. And, of course, the fuel economy rocks.
The fastest I ever taught anyone how to drive a stick was in 15 minutes.
I took them to a parking lot where they had all the space in the world to learn about the friction point. Then they got used to getting it going, shifting, etc. Thing is, there is no stress of say, other traffic pressuring you to get going, or stalling at a critical moment where you have to get the car going immediately (such as in the middle of an intersection with another car coming).
So, I have what is like a Bones' Stick Simulator. Inspired from the scene in "Glory" (and later "The Last Samurai") where the student has to do what appears to be an easy task but now the instructor is stressing them out by a threat of being shot and or the unnerving sound of a gun. In my version, I put the student on a steep driveway in neutral and have the parking break engaged. When I say, they have to put it in gear and release the brake and if their friction point skills are good enough, they should be able to catch the car before she rolls back and hold it in position until they can hit the brake and throw the car back into neutral. If not, they will either roll backwards freely (very unnerving!) or they will stall the car and roll back freely.
If they stall I am on them right away yelling "Start the car! Start it! A car is coming and it's gonna hit you! You have to move this car go go go!" and if they don't, well, then we just "died." They learn REAL quick under those conditions and have no trouble driving a stick after that. When they do stall in real life, they know exactly how to recover before anyone even notices.
Of course, they still have PTSD to deal with, but hey...comes with the territory haha.
... whereas most americans tend to view it as a chore and the car is an appliance for getting from point A to point B.
Which is why you have Cruise Control!
...which I have never had a chance to use in Southern California, as traffic tends to bunch up, slow down, speed up, and come to a grinding halt at extremely random intervals.
Of the four cars I've owned, three have been manuals, and I can't see myself ever willingly going back to driving an automatic. Even living in overcrowded areas with bumper to bumper traffic, having to play the pedals helps keep me focused and alert to how the drivers around me are going to try and kill me next.
I think the scariest trend I've seen thus far have been the commercials for the new M-B E-Class that has the sensors that alert the driver if they drift over the center line- once again proof that most drivers over here seem to be too preoccupied with everything BUT driving when they're behind the wheel.
It's fascinating to me how different people's attitudes can be when it comes to driving a car.
As for me, I view driving as strictly a practical activity that I do to get from point A to point B so I see no need in adding any extra work to it by having to worry about changing gears and using a clutch.
Yeah, my vehicles are tools to get a job done. None of my pick-ups are 'toys'. I've got a Polaris Ranger I use on the ranch as well. It is also a tool to accomplish jobs with. Checking/building/repairing fence, spraying weeds and brush, checking water troughs, putting out mineral. In spring, summer, and fall I'm on it more than I'm in a pick-up.
I've been looking at the new Ford Mustangs and considering an upgrade. I have a 2010 V6 automatic, bought slightly used, and from my experience I don't think a manual transmission would be very comfortable for me in that particular car. I'm tall so if I don't move the seat all the way back my knees will brush the bottom of the dashboard; unfortunately, the steering wheel has a short column that does not telescope, only tilts. The result is that I drive with my arms almost fully extended. I think that if I had to work the clutch and the shifter as well, I'd have to sit either hunched forward or partially sideways. (Also, I already have some trouble seeing the guage cluster through the steering wheel so using the tachometer might also be problematic.)
I've driven pick-ups, dump trucks, semis and tractors and even a few cars with manual transmission (including a couple column shifters) so I'm not 'afraid' of driving a stick. I used to enjoy the long throw of the old floor-mounted stick in F-250 pick-ups when I was younger. But for convenience's sake I prefer an automatic. My typical driving is either 1) stop and go in city traffic; or 2) hundreds if not thousands of miles on the Interstate within a very compressed time period.
Anyhow, the EPA rating on the current V6 Mustang models actually give slightly better MPG with an automatic transmission than with manual. The GT model's rating is opposite with about 1-2 MPG better using a manual transmission. Individual driving habits and conditions might give far different results, of course.
My local Ford dealership seems to only like to put manual transmission Mustangs on the lot. Perhaps it is because they are priced several hundred dollars less than automatics. Perhaps they are more appealing to the 'sports car' crowd.
It's fascinating to me how different people's attitudes can be when it comes to driving a car.
As for me, I view driving as strictly a practical activity that I do to get from point A to point B so I see no need in adding any extra work to it by having to worry about changing gears and using a clutch.
Extra work? After almost 40 years of driving standards I don't even notice clutching and changing gears. In fact, as with the Vette incident, I have to watch myself that I don't shift gears in the automatic I now drive.
The "manual gets better mileage" thing is a myth that depends upon the skill of the driver. Around here I can always tell a manual driver by how the car rocks back and forth as they accelerate! I'd say less than half the people driving manuals SHOULD be. I was able to drive my first 2 manual cars as smoothly as an auto, but when I inherited my mother's old automatic in college I was ecstatic. Finally no more foot-dancing and hand spastic rotations in traffic!
There is no "joy of driving" in Florida. The roads are flat besides overpasses, and those are all built so the trucks can drive them easily. I never downshifted for braking, I just stuck it in neutral. Corners are almost always 90 degrees at a light or stop sign. Turns are made at 15 mph tops. On the big roads you might have a "kink" of 10-15 degrees, but you won't feel the car change direction it's so slight. There is no snow or ice to worry about, just water on the road, and that doesn't matter. Unless you're driving at 3 AM, there's never less than 10 cars around you at a distance of maybe 20-30 ft, all of whom are on their damn cellphones (because they drive automatics), so unless you're a masochist you get an automatic to reduce the stress of driving in pretty much the only way you can.
Maybe if a nuke was dropped here there would be few enough cars on the road to make it enjoyable, but as I posted a few weeks back, we've seen an increase in population of 3 million people in the last decade and we have no new highways, just a few that were widened here and there. All the same roads now carrying a LOT more people.
Those of you who talk about how you have fun driving? I hate you.
The "manual gets better mileage" thing is a myth that depends upon the skill of the driver. Around here I can always tell a manual driver by how the car rocks back and forth as they accelerate! I'd say less than half the people driving manuals SHOULD be. I was able to drive my first 2 manual cars as smoothly as an auto, but when I inherited my mother's old automatic in college I was ecstatic. Finally no more foot-dancing and hand spastic rotations in traffic!
There is no "joy of driving" in Florida. The roads are flat besides overpasses, and those are all built so the trucks can drive them easily. I never downshifted for braking, I just stuck it in neutral. Corners are almost always 90 degrees at a light or stop sign. Turns are made at 15 mph tops. On the big roads you might have a "kink" of 10-15 degrees, but you won't feel the car change direction it's so slight. There is no snow or ice to worry about, just water on the road, and that doesn't matter. Unless you're driving at 3 AM, there's never less than 10 cars around you at a distance of maybe 20-30 ft, all of whom are on their damn cellphones (because they drive automatics), so unless you're a masochist you get an automatic to reduce the stress of driving in pretty much the only way you can.
Maybe if a nuke was dropped here there would be few enough cars on the road to make it enjoyable, but as I posted a few weeks back, we've seen an increase in population of 3 million people in the last decade and we have no new highways, just a few that were widened here and there. All the same roads now carrying a LOT more people.
Those of you who talk about how you have fun driving? I hate you.
The Jedi Master
This is 100% my sentiment as well as to why I don't care for ever having a stick shift car.
wouldnt drive an automatic if you paid me, slow clumsy, expensive pieces of over engineered rubbish.
Besides driving is fun, automatics take all the fun out of something and leave you with something so functional its almost Vulcan!
If I want to be entertained while driving I just fire up one of my PC racing sims.
If you drove manual you would understand Adam. Theres entertainment, theres recreation. Then theres the simple pleasure of being in control of a machine. I find it most confusing as you Yanks love your guns etc for the reasons of the power and control etc. Well its exactly the same thing with a car. With a proper car you are the one directly controlling the machine, its a part of you. you have the power, you have the control.
PS, Adam, i might have to start calling you Vulcanmeyer :P
If you drove manual you would understand Adam. Theres entertainment, theres recreation. Then theres the simple pleasure of being in control of a machine. I find it most confusing as you Yanks love your guns etc for the reasons of the power and control etc. Well its exactly the same thing with a car. With a proper car you are the one directly controlling the machine, its a part of you. you have the power, you have the control.
PS, Adam, i might have to start calling you Vulcanmeyer :P
If I owned a sports car and I lived in a low population area then I most likely would have a different mindset. Like Jedi Master, I also live in overcrowded Florida and I just don't see any possible enjoyment out of having a stick shift car where I live. It would just add more work and frustration.
If you drove manual you would understand Adam. Theres entertainment, theres recreation. Then theres the simple pleasure of being in control of a machine. I find it most confusing as you Yanks love your guns etc for the reasons of the power and control etc. Well its exactly the same thing with a car. With a proper car you are the one directly controlling the machine, its a part of you. you have the power, you have the control.
PS, Adam, i might have to start calling you Vulcanmeyer :P
Have you known any gun owners who don't take their guns to a range to fire them? Outside of possible antiques/collectors' items? They buy the gun, take care of it, and then just keep it in a box all the time? No? Driving a car in Florida is the equivalent of that. Have you ever driven in downtown London? Imagine that everywhere, from when you leave your house till you get to work and back and when you have to go to the store. All the time, every place, never ending.
There's no joy in control of a machine if the machine isn't free to be used. There is an astonishingly low number of boat owners in Austria if you look into it. Same principle.
The "manual gets better mileage" thing is a myth that depends upon the skill of the driver. Around here I can always tell a manual driver by how the car rocks back and forth as they accelerate! I'd say less than half the people driving manuals SHOULD be.
Yep. Around here it's always people who accelerate hard from a stop, then suddenly lose their acceleration and even start slowing down while they struggle to find the next gear. Forcing me to throw on the brakes half the time.
Originally Posted By: Madaboutsims
Originally Posted By: PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted By: Madaboutsims
wouldnt drive an automatic if you paid me, slow clumsy, expensive pieces of over engineered rubbish.
Besides driving is fun, automatics take all the fun out of something and leave you with something so functional its almost Vulcan!
If I want to be entertained while driving I just fire up one of my PC racing sims.
If you drove manual you would understand Adam. Theres entertainment, theres recreation. Then theres the simple pleasure of being in control of a machine. I find it most confusing as you Yanks love your guns etc for the reasons of the power and control etc. Well its exactly the same thing with a car. With a proper car you are the one directly controlling the machine, its a part of you. you have the power, you have the control.
PS, Adam, i might have to start calling you Vulcanmeyer :P
I learned to drive manual and I've spent a lot of time driving manuals. I don't drive for pleasure or to enjoy controlling a machine. I drive because it's required to get where I need to go.
Loved my manual transmissions. Actually loved the cars without power steering too, but they were TR7 and MR2, so pretty small. When I had to move on to a car with an automatic it took me weeks to stop using my left leg on a clutch that wasn't there anymore. Horrible traffic here in Atlanta area, but I'd still choose a manual over automatic, especially if it was a sweet ride, not my 7 passenger minivan.
Hey Magnum, Did you head up to the Myrtle Beach area to buy that jeep? Conway Ford off highway 501 is where I roamed alot. College was there. I just noticed the dealership info on the left side of the jeep.
OK, so here's another case for manual transmissions that just happened to me not half an hour ago.
I drive Hondas- always have- and the last three that I've owned have all had VTEC motors. Basically, that means that above a certain RPM threshold (usually around 6200 RPM), a different set of intake and exhaust camshafts come in to play, boosting power and torque for the last couple of thousand revs in the band (gotta love that 8200 RPM redline).
Just a little bit ago, I was entering the freeway from an entrance with an exceptionally short merging lane. As I was coming down the ramp, the driver in the far right lane, either from being completely oblivious or being intentionally malicious (either is possible in Southern California), sped up and refused to shift over to the left another lane to make way for me. With a dump truck behind him and maybe 50 yards to spare before either being run off the road or getting sideswiped by this guy, I kicked the transmission down a gear into the thick of the VTEC engagement zone, and with the last 25 or so HP and 20 or so ft-lbs of torque available, I was able to accelerate around him and into traffic.
Had I been in my old auto Accord, I may have been able to pull it off with the manual gear selector for the automatic transmission, but since I was only a "voting party" in that car the delay or possibility that the transmission's logic might have overruled my decision (because I would have bounced the engine off its rev limiter in two gears) it's unlikely I would have been able to avoid a collision. Additional control= safer, which is why you'll have to pry my stick shift from my cold, dead hands.
I think at the end it's just a matter of taste. My father taught me ion a manual and I always drove a manual. I don't feel like more task to do or more things to consider, it just happens: you are at a certain speed in 3rd, and the next thing you know is that you are in 4th, just like that, without thinking about it. It doesn't really add any extra workload.
And yes, like NavyNuke99 said, controlling the amount of power that the engine is able to deliver at a certain speed is a great thing. When you know the car you're driving, you kind of know that at a certain speed, in a certain gear, you can get certain acceleration.
And, again a matter of taste, to me, nothing beats the joy of moving the stick, feeling the transition from one gear to the other... It just feels great, even when you have to be careful with your cigarette while you change gears. You kind of hope for a stop that requires you to change gears!
My first lesson at driving was on a stick, th' ol' "3 on a tree" in my Dad's work truck , at 13 on a desolate west Texas two lane road. the first vehicles I owned were trucks, all standards. Haven't driven or owned a manual in over 30 yrs now lol. But I still can drive one with no problem. Manual's back then were so much more common. And CHEAP ! I'd ruin the transmission on my ol' 65 Chevy truck and go get another one for 20 bucks exchange.And it took around 30 munites to swap it out lol. Aaahhh the good ol' days!
I miss stick. I first learned on a '57 GMC Suburban that was missing the right hand side door. LOL!
I then drove a '63 VW Bug for years. Funny thing would happen when I switched to automatic. Took me week or so to quit slamming my left foot on the floor when I was trying to go after a light turned green.
