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The Future And Current Status of AMD...

Posted By: SkateZilla

The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/14/15 03:54 PM

Rather than continuing my trend of getting into it in other peoples build thread, I'll make a specific thread.

Currently AMD is planning a new CPU for 2016.
(there are rumors regarding type etc, I'll gather up some data).

My concern is with the new CEO and plan to dump the remainder of the Modulized CPU design to return to Serialized CPUs, etc.

The new CPU was supposed to be out in 2016, yet we have NO preliminary architecture schematics, no actual hard data, nothing on the chipset and AMD is still losing important staff members groups at a time.

Even with the APU contracts for MS, Sony, And Others for Consoles, theres no sign of a High End Gaming CPU in the future yet.

I can only continue to use PCIe 2.0 and DDR3 for so much longer, as DDR4 and PCIe3.0 become more mainstream on every other platform.

Along with chipset features becoming more and more outdated on the 990 Series.

My next build was to continue to be AMD, CPU, GPU etc.

But Right now it's not looking good future wise.

The Flagship GPUs coming up, with use of HBM stacked memory modules, will likely bring most AM3+ platforms to its knees due to dated I/O.
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/14/15 06:54 PM

I don't know if AMD's roadmap is being thwarted by technical issues or leadership issues.
Did they decide they're going to do X and Y in 2015 and 2016, only to find out X will take till 2016, but it won't be the X they really wanted, more like 3/4 X, and Y is closer to 2018?
Or did the management say, nope, move up Y to 2015 and push back X...then reverse that decision when it was clear Y wouldn't make it...then reverse it again when X also suffered setbacks while Y was progressing?

Part of the problem is you need to be part fortune teller WRT figuring out what tech will mature, where to invest to ensure that it does, when it will, what the competition will do (in their case, both Intel and nvidia who to date are still largely not stepping on each other's toes with nvidia's exit from the chipset market and Intel's far slower GPU advances than was assumed years back)...

Is it bad luck? Bad leaders? Bad investments? A little of everything? There's no doubt that after the inroads AMD made 10 years ago no one thought they'd be where they are now. People were wanting and hoping for a Boeing/Airbus style duopoly, instead they lost market share to Intel they didn't have to lose and have been forced to compete with them and nvidia by lowering their prices.

My armchair analyst theory is the ATI buyout was a mistake. They could've proceeded to compete with Intel with embedded video just the same and wouldn't have had to worry about competing with nvidia too. They're fighting a two front war against two LARGER opponents who each are fighting only one!



The Jedi Master
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/14/15 07:03 PM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
...Currently AMD is planning a new CPU for 2016....yet we have NO preliminary architecture schematics...Right now it's not looking good future wise...


Agree with post.

Nice if you can use your sources to clarify where things are headed.

As noted in the other thread -- I too would like to continue AMD based on price/performance and some "psychological" factors. However, the CPUs in particular need a boost or Intel will be too far ahead in a couple years (if Intel wants to be).
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/14/15 07:27 PM

As an added thought:

I think the "mass desktop market" is headed for the APU type device with no added GPU -- assuming its not already there. Moreover, laptops and tablets with a low power APU type device meet most folks requirements.

So, AMD is probably spending its limited resources where it can more assuredly make a profit. There are not enough folks who want systems that need high end CPUs.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/14/15 08:32 PM

New GPUs are due out this year, but I have concerns with PCIe2.0 beibg a bottleneck along with the already habdicapped cache on the fx chips.

HBM/Stacked DRAM and Huge GPU will require a mess of memory I/O.

The plan was to dump the rest of the module design, per new ceo abd return to conventional cores (serialized cores vs parallel cores etc). These Chip were due to be test in 2015 and out in 2016. And it was stated that it would not retain the AM3 socket array.

the APUs were updated thru steamroller and excavator architectures, but with them being lower tdp parts the performance is still lacking, even with PCIe3.0 support.

Outside of PCIe3, there's DDR4, USB3TC, NEW SATA, m.2 SSD PORTS, New SPUs, etc.

The FX CPUs are no longer an Option without an updated chipset.
I refuse to go Low TDP FM2+,

I will look into my sources.

Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/14/15 08:49 PM

High Performance K12 is still scheduled for Q1-2016,

Codename "Zen", x86-64 and ARM variants, 14nm FinFET.

No details availible yet about chipset etc.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/22/15 03:24 PM

AMD Finalky confirms some specs (all rumored up til now).

R9-380, Will have 4096 GCN1.2 Shaders, 4GB of High Bandwidth Stacked Memory.

Might have to trade in my 7970 Lightnings soon!
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/22/15 04:52 PM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
AMD Finalky confirms some specs (all rumored up til now).

R9-380, Will have 4096 GCN1.2 Shaders, 4GB of High Bandwidth Stacked Memory.

Might have to trade in my 7970 Lightnings soon!


Thanks for info. I've been waiting for an AMD high end, single chip card with around 4000 shaders to replace my 2x HD7970 (with over 4000 shaders total). So, a very likely purchase smile

Not that the new card will be that much better. Rather, its something new to buy -- that won't be worse smile
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/22/15 05:22 PM

HBM should be good, if spec sheets are accurate,
4GB of VRAM, but only taking the spots on the PCB of maybe 4 chips instead of 16.

Makes room to allow one big GPU chip, with a AiO Water cooler slapped on it out of the box.

Thats likely not even the top end GPU either. (Rx-390).

However, the power draw of 2 lightnings is ~500watts, takes up 4 total slots, and Xfire isnt garaunteed performance.

So I can drop ~200w Any Xfire incompatibilities, get faster memory, VSR and all the latest driver things that arent working for 7000 series etc, free up 2 slots, abd save on heat etc as it will.be water cooled out of the box.

Keep a 7970 lightning as a backup, and give the other one to my brother.

My issue is whether or not it will suffer on PCIe 2.0

Posted By: Flogger23m

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/22/15 08:46 PM

I don't see the point in being loyal to one brand. I do hope AMD comes out with a good, competitive high end CPU to keep Intel innovating though. It looks like the next release of Intel CPUs will be a big jump though.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/22/15 10:13 PM

Originally Posted By: Flogger23m
I don't see the point in being loyal to one brand...


For me, its politics. Since the 90s, Intel and Nvidia have "cheated" a lot -- at the expense of reasonably "fair" competition. Some of this has been proven in court. For example, AMD was awarded 1.5 Billion dollars from Intel -- thing is, the damage had been done and sealed AMDs fate.

That cheating cost customers choice and money.

Being old fashioned (literally as well as figuratively), I merely don't want to "reward" companies like that.

However, that's just me. Other folks either don't know the "back story" or don't care. And, that's okay with me smile

With graphics, being an AMD fan is easy -- Nvidia and AMD switch places every few months -- both are hyper competitive.

With desktop CPUs, its getting hard -- AMD has not kept up. Still, AMD is competitive. That's probably because Intel is not going "all out" to develop desktop CPUs. Rather, they seem to be after "similar performance" at "lower power" -- which is a good fit to the current Market.

In summary, Intel and Nvidia make great products. Were it not for their history, I would be buying their stuff at times -- and don't begrudge others buying their stuff smile
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/23/15 03:12 PM

I could argue you're just rewarding AMD for not getting caught doing the same thing. smile



The Jedi Master
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/23/15 10:33 PM

I do find it odd that the new CEO preaches that high power market is dying and AMD like Intel and nVidia is going for low power etc.

Yet the Rx-380 uses 300w, lol
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/28/15 03:35 PM

Some partially confirmed specs for the "Zen" x86 CPU:
-Codename "Zen", (We already knew that)
-Architecture Family Name "Summit Ridge"
-Market Family "FX"
-SMT (well we already knew they were going back to SMT from CMT.)
-14NM FinFET, Global Foundries
-DDR4 SUPPORT
-PCIe 3.x Support
-95w Max TDP, Up to 8 Cores
-FMx Socket (FM3 Socket.)


Not confirmed/Rumored:
-2016 (Q'3)
-HBM and Hybrid DDR3/DDR4 CONTROLLER.
-Unknown if GCN Blocks will be integrated
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/09/15 08:53 PM

Updates:

R9-370, Tonga GPU Rebrand (R9-285), Q2-Q3
R9-380, Hawaii GPU Rebrand, Greneda (R9-290), Q2-Q3

R9-390, Fiji, 4096 SP, 4GB HBM, 1024Bit Memory Interface, Q3-Q4
R9-395x2, Fiji x2, 8192 SP, 4GB HBMx2, 1024Bit Memory Interface x2, Q4+
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/10/15 03:06 AM

I await Fiji smile
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/10/15 03:50 PM

I want a Fiji x2, but I have to have a PCIe3 slot or it'll choke. And a new PSU, lol.

I think a single Fiji will suffice, same overall SP count, but more efficient, 1GB more of faster memory and a crazy wide memory bus.

Interested in clock speeds, GTX980s are hittin 1.3-1.5GHz easy.

They will be water cooled, bridgeless Xfire abd support all the new SuperSample stuff.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/14/15 08:58 PM

Cooler Master will be Manufacturing the Closed Loop Liquid cooling System on the 390s.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/01/15 02:54 PM

Some Unofficial/Rumored Zen x86 Specs.

16 Total Cores.
4 Modules.
4 ZenCores Per Modules

Each of 16 cores will have its own L2 cache.
Each Module will have its own L3 cache.

DDR4, PCIE3.0, HBM Support for APUs.

Some notes:
All CPUs (even Intel's) share L3 cache across the entire CPU.
Bulldozer shared L2 Cache per module, instead of per core.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/02/15 11:37 AM

What little rumor I've read about the new AMD X86 APU product (CPU+GPU on a die), makes it seem like they've tried to "move past" Intel's current and near future products.

Now, as a practical thing, Intel will probably stay in the lead on the CPU end. But, AMD has always lead Intel on the GPU. Overall, it could turn out to be an "evenly matched fight".

I hypothesized several years ago, that by roughly 2020, AMD and Intel would be effectively "tied" and have similar performing products at similar prices (much like AMD and Nvidia do now). That "prediction" was based on the fact that normal semiconductor materials are reaching their limits -- only a few die shrinks left -- so, on paper, Intel cannot stay ahead forever.

Maybe Zen actually will "close most of the gap" with Intel. If so, fun for an AMD fan and good for most Consumers (competition is good).

"Zen" does have to be released "on time", however (nominally 2016). We'll see.
Posted By: AggressorBLUE

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/02/15 12:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Allen
What little rumor I've read about the new AMD X86 APU product (CPU+GPU on a die), makes it seem like they've tried to "move past" Intel's current and near future products.

Now, as a practical thing, Intel will probably stay in the lead on the CPU end. But, AMD has always lead Intel on the GPU. Overall, it could turn out to be an "evenly matched fight".

I hypothesized several years ago, that by roughly 2020, AMD and Intel would be effectively "tied" and have similar performing products at similar prices (much like AMD and Nvidia do now). That "prediction" was based on the fact that normal semiconductor materials are reaching their limits -- only a few die shrinks left -- so, on paper, Intel cannot stay ahead forever.

Maybe Zen actually will "close most of the gap" with Intel. If so, fun for an AMD fan and good for most Consumers (competition is good).

"Zen" does have to be released "on time", however (nominally 2016). We'll see.


(emphasis mine)

Actually, I think that plays to Intels favor. When smaller NM tech is no longer part of the chip evolution cycle, two options remain:

1. Change "the game", ie look to develop a radically new architecture taking us away from x86. This will require close partnership with lots of the major players out there, including MS and Apple, and various hardware manus. And lots of cash. Intel seems to have a marked history of doing this (USB anyone?). AMD, not to the same level.

2. Develop new materials (nano tech ftw!). This will require a massive investment, to both research the materials and to drastically revise the manufacturing process. Again, advantage Intel.

To be clear: I've nothing against AMD. I switched back to Teal (Blue/Green) after a red build simply because that combo works better for FSX. For a more normalized "workhorse" gaming build, I'd consider shopping red again. I do like how easy AMD made it to OC ye olde Phenom II though yep
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/02/15 03:21 PM

AMD licenses x86 from Intel anyway, so they would likely license the new standard as well.

This is why AMD being bought = bad news for everyone.

If AMD is bought, they lose the x86 license from Intel, which means no more desktop CPUs or APUs they would have to stick with ARM / Mobile.

Which means Intel will have no direct competitor, which means high prices.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/02/15 05:36 PM

Originally Posted By: AggressorBLUE
...Actually, I think that plays to Intels favor...


Agree that, in the long run, we should expect a "breakthrough" that leads to a new direction. As you surmise, most likely, the "breakthrough" will be from a company that can "afford to make a breakthrough" -- and that's unlikely to be AMD.

Still, practically speaking, a genuine "circuit material or technology" breakthrough that improves normally priced consumer products may be two or more decades away.

Looking farther: At about the two or three decade mark (or maybe 5 decades), like many, I hypothesize the "singularity" (or something close enough). At that point, sentient (or virtually sentient) computer AI will begin to take over for all human thought and technical progress will be quicker. Hopefully, that will ultimately be good for humans -- but, I hypothesize it won't be at first and possibly never given the inherent nature of politicians -- whoops, wrong forum for Politics smile

Anyhow, I won't be here to see it -- darn smile
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/02/15 07:48 PM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla


Which means Intel will have no direct competitor, which means high prices.


The real news is that the market is starting to contract enough that two companies in competition can't survive sufficiently well. Intel will raise prices as volumes decrease, regardless of competition.

The future of the PC was never going to be x86/x64 forever, but costs may force it to turn sooner rather than later.



The Jedi Master
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/02/15 08:21 PM

AMD has warehouses full of FX chips and APUs, companies are refusing shipments as they are overstocked and not selling.

These chips will likely find their way to oem for extremely low prices.
Posted By: AggressorBLUE

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/02/15 08:49 PM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
AMD has warehouses full of FX chips and APUs, companies are refusing shipments as they are overstocked and not selling.

These chips will likely find their way to oem for extremely low prices.



...or be tossed into locked dumpsters to be disposed of. nope


Often, companies will just 'burn' (sometimes literally) excess inventory, rather than shoot the replacing product in the foot with fire-sale pricing on the previous generation.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/02/15 09:35 PM

I know Intel litterally has a warehouse space full of older core2duo through pentium MMX chips..

So if skynet comes, they have older tech to fall back on.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/03/15 07:44 PM

New rumor:

AMD Zen x86-64 will support both SMT and CMT.

Ie Each Module will be 4cores, 2 of which will be laege high powered cores (higher IPC in Single thread and HyperThread/SMT), while the other 2 will be smaller integer cores. (For use with CMT.
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/06/15 01:24 PM

Why would AMD support Country Music Television? Talk about a waste of time...




The Jedi Master
Posted By: JG26 vonVampr

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/06/15 02:44 PM

I just built a new machine using a Intel Core i5-4690K. When I was shopping for a cpu, I tried to look at every comparison, benchmark and testimonial I could find. I'm not brand loyal in any way so my perspective was strickly the most stable, high performance cpu that fit within my budget. I ended up going with the i5 and I'm very happy I did. It oc'ed stable @ 4.5ghz and ran cool there with only a DeepCool Lucifer V2 air cooler (although it appears to work as well as liquids twice it's price). In Arma 3, Assetto Corsa, IL-2, Falcon 4.0 and so on it runs all games at ultra settings using a Gigabyte GeForce 970 and the cpu @3.5ghz brilliantly and I really don't even see a need to oc it for what "I" do. It doesn't stutter, choke or slowdown and I'm running it at factory clock until I have a reason not to.

Conversely, my BIL is an AMD loyalist and never in the past would even consider a Intel cpu EVER. He was over visiting and I let him run through the games I currently have installed and he was astounded at the level of performance versus the money I spent. This has always been AMD's mantra, giving it's customers the most "bang for the buck" and I don't believe that applies anymore. In the past the AMD machines I had lived up to that standard, but Intel has really hurt them with the "K" chipsets. They oc easy, they run cool and they perform at a relatively low cost. I think Amd still has a decent foothold in the low budget gaming world, but in middle to high end builds their presence there seems to be fading away. Just my humble opinion ofcourse, your mileage may vary. cheers
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/06/15 06:49 PM

If you want to spend under $150 on any given component, I think AMD can be good bang for the buck compared to what Intel gives. If you're willing to spend over $250, AMD can't match it. Your BIL probably spent less on his by far, and I'm betting that if he spent the same amount on Intel he'd get even worse performance than he does now.

If cost is your overriding concern, you can get good performance from AMD for what little you spend. If smooth gameplay is equally important, and you upgrade bits and pieces as opposed to doing the whole thing at once, you can get much better out of Intel.

Of course, if you insist on having multiple PCs to pay to maintain, then AMD becomes even more attractive because saving $75 on one CPU isn't nearly as big as saving it on 3 or more. However, in a single PC scenario, Intel will win unless you're unwise about where you buy stuff from and what you're buying.




The Jedi Master
Posted By: AggressorBLUE

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/06/15 09:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
If you want to spend under $150 on any given component, I think AMD can be good bang for the buck compared to what Intel gives. If you're willing to spend over $250, AMD can't match it. Your BIL probably spent less on his by far, and I'm betting that if he spent the same amount on Intel he'd get even worse performance than he does now.

If cost is your overriding concern, you can get good performance from AMD for what little you spend. If smooth gameplay is equally important, and you upgrade bits and pieces as opposed to doing the whole thing at once, you can get much better out of Intel.

Of course, if you insist on having multiple PCs to pay to maintain, then AMD becomes even more attractive because saving $75 on one CPU isn't nearly as big as saving it on 3 or more. However, in a single PC scenario, Intel will win unless you're unwise about where you buy stuff from and what you're buying.

The Jedi Master


I generally agree with all this, but regarding the point on the last item about multiple PCs; if you need to buy and setup multiple machines I agree. But as AMD is likely to see you needing an upgrade before intel, but mainly because I've found Intel CPUs have a longer useful life as gaming workhorses, so when they retire they're "service life" (including that of the mobo and other support components) is often more used up.

Case in point, when I was building my first DIY desktop with a Phenom II X4 back around 2010, My little brother was still happily using his DT with an Intel Q660, which he bought from iBuypower in 2008. That rig lasted through 3 or 4 GPU upgrades (the last GPU being carried over to a new rig I built for him) and kept him happy. Eventually he started getting odd heat spikes on the cores, and decided it was time to upgrade the whole kit in 2013. It probably just needed a new CPU cooler (the liquid one IBP put on was well past due for an upgrade, considering the thing never got it's dust filter cleaned).

The same year, I decided to upgrade my Phenom, which just wasn't cutting it in my CPU intensive games. (I also was getting tired of the driver headaches that came with the AMD cards around that time, and didn't want to run an nvidia card with an AMD CPU, which made the choice easier). The Phenom just didn't have the legs of the Intel CPU. That said, my current intel rig is still going strong, and I feel no reason to upgrade any of my kit, save for the power supply (it's about that time). The kit of the AMD still sits in my basement.

The point here being, your likely to find yourself in a multi-device house hold with AMD, as you'll want to upgrade before the machines service life is up, but you're more likely to hang in for the long haul.

Of course, I also have a laptop that sees service as a backup PC from 2008 with a core 2 Duo, which could still do daily office work if my DT wasn't around. So I guess that shoots down my theory smile
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/06/15 10:24 PM

Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
Why would AMD support Country Music Television? Talk about a waste of time...




The Jedi Master


SMT = Simultaneouw Multi-Threading (ie Intel and Hyperthreading).
CMT = Clustered Multi-Threading (ie AMD FX Modules)
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/09/15 03:17 PM

Reviews on Intel's Core M are not so good so far,

If AMD can put out a decept CHIP this year, they can have a nice boost.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/11/15 08:41 PM

So More "Leaks"/Rumors
-16 Zen Cores
-SMT for 32 Threads
-Greenland GPU Stream Processors
-Up to 16GB HBM for Graphics Memory
-DDR4 Quad Channel 3400MHz
-256GB Per Channel
-8 MB of L2 Cache (512kb Per Core)
-32 MB of L3 Cache
-64 PCIe Gen 3 Lanes
-14 SATA Lanes
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/13/15 02:17 PM

You can never have too much cache.






The Jedi Master
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/17/15 01:03 PM

As expected AMD reports significantly low Q1 finacials...
Ends conract with Seasonic abd leaves dense server market.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/21/15 07:21 PM

Server Market CPU without Greenland GPU will have 32 Cores...


Ahhhhhhhh I wants it now....

2016...boooooo
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/27/15 04:13 PM

R9-390X 8GB will use Dual Link Interposer to stack 8GB of HBM,

No dual GPUs :-)
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/27/15 08:46 PM

So apparently only the 390 and 395 are new architecture and the 380 and others will be rebranded 2xx?

I wasn't thrilled when nvidia released the 770 as an OC'd 680, to do the same thing...




The Jedi Master
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/28/15 02:01 AM

They did that with the 200 series too,
290/290x was new 280,285, 289x etc minus the lower spec one that was tue new gpu, they were all tahiti rebrands.
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/28/15 12:46 PM

Ok...so does that mean the 370 will be a former 280 which was a former 190 which was... explode




The Jedi Master
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/28/15 01:50 PM

370x and 370 Will likely be rebrands of 290x and 290
Posted By: Sethos88

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/28/15 03:41 PM

All of them are just rebrands of ATI's Wonder MDA/CGA from 1986
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/28/15 04:17 PM

Hater, :p
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/28/15 05:42 PM

Excavator Module vs Zen x86 Core:

According to leaked slide of Zen x86 core,


1 Master Fetch Per Core instead of Shared Among 2 Integer Cores
1 Master Decode Unit Per Core Instead of Shared over 2 Integer Cores

1 Large Integer Scheduler Instead of 2 Small Ones
1 Large FP Scheduler instead of A small FP Scheduler shared over 2 integer cores.
6 Pipelines w/ L1 cache Per Integer Core vs 4 Per Integer Core
2 FMAC Units @ 256-Bit each per Integer Core, vs 2 FMAC Units @ 128-Bit each shared over 2 Integer Cores
1 MMX Unit Per Integer Core Vs 1 MMX Unit shared over 2 Integer Cores.
L2 Cache Dedicated 512kb Per Integer Core vs 1MB L2 shared across 2 Integer cores.

*512Kb L2 / core was based off the rumored specs.

Should be a significant improvement in FP and Scheduling alone.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/29/15 02:41 PM

2016 Mid and Performance Roadmap:

Zen x86 will use:
FM3 Socket
14nm Process
4 core Blocks w/ 8MB of L2 per Block 512KB of L1 per Core

Performance CPUs:
1st Generation Zen Cores "Summit Ridge"
14nm, FM3
Up to 8 Zen Cores (2x 4 core blocks), 16 threads
No GPU Units

Desktop/All In One APUs:
1st Generation Zen Cores "Bristol Ridge"
14nm, SoC, FM3
Up to 4 Zen Cores (1x 4 Core Block), 8 Threads
GCN Compute Units (Unknown Unit Count)


Lower Level will be 2cores and use similar setup as Beema APUs, uses FT4 BGA socket.

Server Level CPUs will feature 16cores 32 threads, unknown socket.


Next Weekend, expect the floodgates to Open.

Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/06/15 06:08 PM

NDA Ends tomorrow, AMD Analyst day is today, press conferences all day,

So Far:
-AMD Skybridge CPU is cancelled (ARM / x86 Hybrid Core)
-SoI, mobile, tablet and low end is out
-Gaming, APUs, High Performance Cioe is Priority
-Invested in x86, ARM and APIs
-GPUs to finally be formally announced today.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/06/15 07:24 PM

Zen to offer 40% Increase over Excavator clock for clock.
AM4 platform will support CPUs and APUs
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/06/15 08:10 PM

As my own company recently decided, low margin mass production is where you must compete almost exclusively on price and rewards are small.

By concentrating on higher margin lower volume products overall revenue takes a slight hit, but profitability increases.



The Jedi Master
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/07/15 03:15 PM

Pretty much all the 390x rumors confirmed,
-4096 SP GCN 1.2, Double the performance/watt of GCN1.0 (Tahiti)
-HBM and GPU stacked on Single Interposer.
-Water Cooled Version is small form factor (no fans, very short)

FX CPUs:
-Up to 8 cores for consumer, 40% IPC over Excavator
-New cache system
-CPu and APU use the Same Socket (AM4)
-14nm FinFET
-AM4 to support DDR4, USB 3.1 Etc

(Excavator is about 5% higher than Piledriver, so about45% in IPC Alone Puts it around Haswell, then add in the SMT and Chache revamp, DDR4 etc, should be a nice lil chip)

Waiting for specs on AM4,

There are new AM3+ boards out with USB 3.1..

Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/08/15 10:10 AM

AMD seems on the right track. I look forward to the next FX architecture. Its an excuse to upgrade (for now, FX9590 does "everything" I need while running at stock speeds).

Thanks for the regular updates thumbsup
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/08/15 11:36 AM


I dont think Jim has ever had a bad Arch. He left AMD after stomping Intel throgh Athlon64, then junp a round through broadcom, and Apple.
Posted By: kludger

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/08/15 05:38 PM

From reading their recent news, it sounds like AMD will focus more on the high end CPU/GPU market where they have been losing to Intel/Nvidia and stop wasting their time with the low/mid end which they have been winning but has small profit margins.

I know you guys are diehard AMD enthusiasts and will buy AMD either way, but as a neutral PC gamer who cares most about the best bang-for-the-buck high end stuff, I'm glad to hear it because it's been a while since AMD had high end products that attracted my value/performance attention compared to Intel/Nvidia and I want more competition in the high end market.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/08/15 07:00 PM

Intel should be concerned, Jim's last 3 chips he designed for AMD spanked Intels counterpart, when they werent supposed to.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/22/15 01:22 AM

Now pundits showing even more concern over AMD product life cycle and new product introduction delays.

Of course, bankruptcy does not necessarily mean "out of business". Rather, the stock holders lose virtually everything and the creditors lose a lot. Then, the business can potentially start fresh or continue -- by different means (after being bought out at fire-sale prices for example).

Or, they could simply cease to exist.

AMD needs to do everything correctly and on-time for the next few years.

It sure won't be good for consumers (AMD or Intel or Nvidia) if Intel and Nvidia are the only games in town -- think astronomical prices and very slow release of new stuff. We'll see.

AMD Bankrupt by 2020?
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/22/15 02:28 AM

R9-390X and Zen will predict their outcome,

R9-300s are going to be priced significantly higher than past GPUs.

Zen if benchmarks hold up, will be priced significantly higher than past APU/CPUs
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/22/15 03:31 PM

Originally Posted By: Allen


It sure won't be good for consumers (AMD or Intel or Nvidia) if Intel and Nvidia are the only games in town -- think astronomical prices and very slow release of new stuff. We'll see.

AMD Bankrupt by 2020?


Except the market has changed and that's no longer true. If this was 2001, yeah, it would be bad if AMD and ATI vanished.
Without them today, though, it's far more dire. People don't NEED PCs anymore. If nvidia and Intel increase prices for less improvement, the drop in sales will accelerate. They won't price themselves out of the market, since they would BE the market, they would instead DESTROY the market.

How many people would own a car if the only choices were a Ferrari and a Mercedes?
People would instead get bikes, take buses, trains, etc. Make PCs too pricey and people will just get tablets and "smart" devices for internet use and gaming. The PC is no longer the only way to do all these things.

Intel and nvidia aren't competing with AMD...they're competing with Apple, and Samsung, and LG, and HTC. If people have a choice between spending $500 on a subpar laptop or an iPad...



The Jedi Master
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/22/15 09:41 PM

Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
...Except the market has changed...


Agree, the future is complex.

On one hand, less competition at the high end means higher prices and less choice "at the high end". Higher prices mean less sales overall "at the high end".

Moreover, significant (visible, feel-able) performance improvements are technically harder to achieve with each new hardware generation.

So, the market might just stabilize at a given performance level -- with steadily decreasing prices (after accounting for inflation) -- but "no reason for an enthusiast to be enthusiastic" and no economic reason for Intel and others to "push performance".

Most folks will be happy with the readily available, cheap, fun devices. However, the days (or at least, years) of "do it yourself" hardware hobbyists may be numbered. I'm already to the point that nothing currently on the market intrigues me because I know I won't notice the improvement over what I have. And, I'm not sure that will change in the next couple years. That happened decades ago with automobiles. I used to do all my own work and be interested in the new models. Now I buy a new car every 10 or 12 years and don't do a lick of work on them.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/22/15 11:01 PM

If Zen flops, then AMD will likely allow themselves to be purchases and lose their x86 license from intel.

Samsung wanted to buy them earlier, which would move all resources to ARM.

AMD will likely try and same their GPU Division by Jettisoning it before they go out though.
Posted By: Flogger23m

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/23/15 06:22 AM

Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
Originally Posted By: Allen


It sure won't be good for consumers (AMD or Intel or Nvidia) if Intel and Nvidia are the only games in town -- think astronomical prices and very slow release of new stuff. We'll see.

AMD Bankrupt by 2020?


Except the market has changed and that's no longer true. If this was 2001, yeah, it would be bad if AMD and ATI vanished.
Without them today, though, it's far more dire. People don't NEED PCs anymore. If nvidia and Intel increase prices for less improvement, the drop in sales will accelerate. They won't price themselves out of the market, since they would BE the market, they would instead DESTROY the market.

How many people would own a car if the only choices were a Ferrari and a Mercedes?
People would instead get bikes, take buses, trains, etc. Make PCs too pricey and people will just get tablets and "smart" devices for internet use and gaming. The PC is no longer the only way to do all these things.

Intel and nvidia aren't competing with AMD...they're competing with Apple, and Samsung, and LG, and HTC. If people have a choice between spending $500 on a subpar laptop or an iPad...



The Jedi Master


Yes and no. Yes in that tablets can fill the void in some instances; no in that things that require computers/internet are much more common now than in 2001. A tablet can do things, but it is far slower and more time consuming to do the same tasks when compared to a PC. Even typing this post would take 3-4 times as long.

Same for gaming. I don't have interest in phone games and when presented with the option I tend to prefer reading something or watching youtube instead. So there really isn't a substitute for PC games, aside from consoles (which Nvidia would also make money from). Although they do make a lot less from console sales compared to discrete GPUs... so it would be in their interest not to price themselves too high.
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/27/15 02:57 PM

My point isn't that PCs aren't going to not be needed at all, it's that the mass market for them will shrink away if they jack up the costs. The high end market will stay there, but when games run worse on a $400 laptop than on a $400 tablet, why would you get the laptop? Now if Intel and nvidia increase prices so that $400 laptop becomes $800, THAT will kill it.

You can get a BT keyboard for a tablet for like $70.

Don't project your own feelings about using PCs vs tablets onto the entire market and think that's how it is. In the 90s it was "grandma got a PC!" so they could use the internet and watch videos and such. Now it's "grandma got a tablet!" and the old PC from the 90s is still there in the corner for those times she needs it...she's not buying a new one unless it dies. Make the replacement cost more and she won't replace it at all.

The "good enough" performance of ARM chips on mobile devices is killing the need for the low-end CPUs. The high-end ones are still needed, yes, but there's no killer app to propel people to upgrade their 4yr old high end CPU for the latest high end CPU.

I have an i7-2600k that I run at STOCK speeds with a GTX 770. I can run pretty much every game I have, including ones from 2015, at max settings at 1080p (all the display I have room for). Games are being made largely to run on the consoles first, and the new consoles are weak compared to modern PCs. This isn't the 360/PS3 days when they rivaled PCs, MS and Sony went cheap this time.

So I reiterate--the lack of performance innovation is already here, the CPUs are "good enough" for 95% of the people so they spend more time making them power efficient than faster. AMD's competition isn't spurring Intel to do a thing about making them faster, it only keeps prices down. Should their exiting the market make Intel feel they can charge MORE for what they're giving us now...who would go for that?



The Jedi Master
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/27/15 03:44 PM

Latest rumor / unconfirmed is that R300 is R200 rebrands, minus GCN 1.0/Tahiti

And Fiji will be like nVidia Titan, $800ish, and Unique name.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/29/15 05:08 PM

Latest mumbo:

AMD Radeon Fury Max 8GB (Fiji XT x2)
AMD Radeon Fury 4/8 GB (Fiji Xt)
*8GB Version not confirmed by AMD,
but they did announce 8 GB HBM1 w/ Dual Link Interposer

Fiji will be smaller as the Ram is on the substrate with the GPU,
it will be water cooled, 1x 120mm radiator with 1x120mm fan.
it will require 2x 8-Pin Power Connectors.
Rear I/O will be 3 DP1.2a, and One HDMI 2.0

R9-390X, 8 GB = R9-290X (Hawaii XT)
R9-390, 8 GB = R9-290 (Hawaii Pro)
R9-380, 4 GB = R9-285 (Tonga Pro)
R7-370X, 2/4 GB = R7-270X (Curacao XT)
R7-370, 2 GB = R7-270 (Curacao Pro)
R7-360, 2 GB = R7-260X (Bonaire XTX)
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/29/15 07:58 PM

wacky


Marketing.




The Jedi Master
Posted By: Remon

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/01/15 01:18 AM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla

R9-390X, 8 GB = R9-290X (Hawaii XT)
R9-390, 8 GB = R9-290 (Hawaii Pro)
R9-380, 4 GB = R9-285 (Tonga Pro)


This looks weird though. The 380 looks like its better than the 390(x)s, since Tonga is newer, with better tessellation and support for texture compression, plus some features supported by GCN 1.2 only, like VSR.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/01/15 03:36 AM

Hawaii supports VSR.

Basically this line up eliminates all tahiti/GCN 1.0.
Posted By: Remon

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/01/15 05:11 AM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
Hawaii supports VSR.

Basically this line up eliminates all tahiti/GCN 1.0.


What are the features that are supported only by 1.2? I remember there are a few of them.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/01/15 04:40 PM

improved tessellation performance, lossless delta color compression in order to reduce memory bandwidth usage, an updated and more efficient instruction set, a new high quality scaler for video, and a new multimedia engine (video encoder/decoder).
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/01/15 04:42 PM

That was a copy/paste from wiki.

Pretty sure they eliminated tahiti and gcn 1.0 cards as they didnt support vsr or freesync

Tongas minus was 2GB vs tahitis 3GB, that has changed.

But 4096 shaders using less tuan half the power of Xfired 7970s is what I want
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/01/15 11:45 PM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
...4096 shaders using less tuan half the power of Xfired 7970s is what I want


Agree. How much I'm willing to pay for it depends on the performance improvement over the two 7970s.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/02/15 01:10 AM

Originally Posted By: Allen
Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
...4096 shaders using less tuan half the power of Xfired 7970s is what I want


Agree. How much I'm willing to pay for it depends on the performance improvement over the two 7970s.


Hopefully at least 2.6x

4096 SP of GCN 1.2 Cores (vs 4096 of GCN 1.0),

Less Power, More Efficiency etc.

4096 Bit Memory Bus, insane texture bandwidth that makes an nVidia Titan X look like an entry level card.

All on 2 8-Pin PCIe Plugs smile

$849 was the Rumored price ($799 was the rumored MSRP)

I paid $375-$400 for my Lightnings, which can be relegated to other systems. I still have the EK water block that I got for free with one.

I'd have to buy some DisplayPort to MiniDP Adapters if the Rumored I/O is correct.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/02/15 04:21 PM

Top Card is now "AMD Radeon Fury X"

Press conference tomorrow!
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/16/15 07:01 PM

http://hothardware.com/news/amd-flaunts-...deon-300-series

Finally some details on the prices etc.

$649 for Watercooled... Fantastic.

Gonna wait a few weeks build up my budget first.
Posted By: Remon

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/17/15 01:55 AM

HBM is a huge thing. SFF PCs with dual gpu cards. Also, watercooling should get easier/cheaper now, since the memory is on the gpu, we will only need gpu waterblocks to cool them.
Posted By: Bill_Grant

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/17/15 02:49 AM

In the news yesterday was that PC Gaming is skyrocketing (thanks to Steam), and Consoles are faltering.
This absolutely dovetails with new products being released.
Yay! more choices!
Posted By: Sethos88

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/17/15 08:30 AM

Almost considering giving up my 2 x 980s for the dual GPU Fury X. They are massive, no room for my Essence STX, pump out a ton of heat and one of the coolers has developed a slight rattle. I will be giving up Gsync but with a 144Hz monitor, it shouldn't really be the end of the world.

Plus, never thought I'd say this, Nvidia's drivers has severely fallen in quality the past 6+ months. So many problems.
Posted By: FlashBurn

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/17/15 03:38 PM

I am thinking R380 at 200 bucks sounds like a simple way to replace the 2 old and crusty 5870's. I am thinking short term solution that will run with the current mobo in the box. Maybe buy 1 next month, buy another around Nov or Dec. Or do the wait and see. Maybe keep me happy for awhile and upgrade other junk as it comes along. Just not going to go all out till something way way better in the 300-350 price range. And simply don't play enough games that justify super uber right now. I guess thinking good enough for the time being. Get DX12 ready and better than what I got. Worry about the rest later down the road. I need new monitors badly! Messing with my work flow since one crapped out.

What I can say. I felt no need to upgrade until last year. But zero pressing need for what I was playing. I have never gotten 5 years on vid cards before. Was always a 2 year deal post 2000. Pre 2000 was like every year. Does that mean I am getting crusty?
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/17/15 04:16 PM

Originally Posted By: Sethos88
Almost considering giving up my 2 x 980s for the dual GPU Fury X. They are massive, no room for my Essence STX, pump out a ton of heat and one of the coolers has developed a slight rattle. I will be giving up Gsync but with a 144Hz monitor, it shouldn't really be the end of the world.

Plus, never thought I'd say this, Nvidia's drivers has several fallen in quality the past 6+ months. So many problems.



The Dual GPU Fury X is Smaller than one of my 7970 Lightnings, by at least 4 inches.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/24/15 01:47 PM

AMD Clarifies Why It Uses Intel Core i7 In Its Project Quantum Gaming PC

Because people want it smile

On the other hand, as noted in above in our SimHQ thread, there is still "hope" for "change" smile

With its new Zen CPU microarchitecture, ... x86 CPU market
Posted By: Sethos88

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/24/15 01:56 PM

Originally Posted By: Allen


Smart decision.
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/24/15 02:12 PM

I want a holodeck for the price of an ice cream cone but no one's giving it to me!



The Jedi Master
Posted By: Vertigo1

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/24/15 03:34 PM

It's nice to see that AMD is finally going to fix their per-core performance with Zen. I think Arma 3, with its (antiquated) singlethreadedness, has given AMD a blackeye for some gamers.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/03/15 02:41 PM

OMG I Wantz,

Remember when I mentooned APU w/ HBM.?...
http://www.hexus.net/tech/news/cpu/85184-amd-exascale-heterogenous-processor-sports-32-zen-cores/
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/03/15 03:13 PM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
...Remember when I mentooned APU w/ HBM...


Impressive.

I read that Windows can make use of over 200 CPU cores simultaneously -- so, 32 is not too many smile

I read that flight simulator X-Plane 10 is written to use 10 to 20 threads -- which could be assigned to different cores. I can imagine advanced programming Combat Flight Simulators assigning one nearby aircraft per core and more distant planes at one squadron per core -- rather than every plane in the air to only one core.

I'm hoping AMD gets future APU "per core computations" equivalent to CPU "per core computations". My own tests show that AMD APU cores are effectively slower than AMD CPU cores at the same clocks. Moreover, current APU cores tend to run slightly lower clocks than CPUs of similar architecture. The slower APU performance has to do with optimizing for both computations and graphics on the same chip -- I have read. For now, I think of APUs as "not gaming" devices.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/03/15 03:37 PM

APUs use a "Smaller" Core to use less power.
Basically designed for low power consumption instead of high performance.

I want a full Zen CPU 8-16 Cores w/ 32 GB of HBM on it..

Slap a big Water block on it. No need for DDR4.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/04/15 11:12 AM

Today, Fudzilla is saying that the AMD Exascale Heterogenous Processor will have "only" 16 cores with 32 threads. However, they say that's an educated guess. Apparently, we have to wait for AMD to make an "official" description.

Its hinted that they will not make the APU "mistake" of reducing CPU performance just to get more features on the chip. So, there may be 16 full speed CPU cores -- plus other compute hardware.

Oh well, that's the "distant" future of, probably, 2017 (and maybe 2016).
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/11/15 08:35 PM

Microsoft has A Multi Billion Dollar advanced stages proposal on desk to Acquire AMD, CPU and GPU divisions as well as a New x86 License from Intel.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/11/15 09:36 PM

If Microsoft keeps AMD in competition with Intel CPUs and Nvidia GPUs, I'm okay with it. AMD needs a large cash infusion. Competition is good smile

However, in the past, Microsoft when "acquiring other companies" has blundered substantially. So, based on history, Microsoft may take AMD in a whole new direction and eliminate competition with Intel and Nvidia. Hurts Microsoft bottom line (nothing new there) and hurts our bottom line too. No competition means "price shock" and future very slow updates of CPU and GPU frown
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/11/15 09:46 PM

Microsoft wants CPU, GPU and Software delevopment in house to make cheaper Consoles, Phones, Tablets and 1st Party Windows Equiped PCs.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/14/15 02:55 PM

my AMD shares are now w9rth 9x what I paid for them a few years ago...

keep going up, I need a vacation.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/18/15 05:13 PM

Jim Keller has Left AMD (Again)
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/24/15 09:37 AM

Quote:
Chipzilla might have caused slow PC sales at the beginning of the year to boost the price of its Skylake chips later.

A recent study shows that the slump in PC sales in the first half was deliberately made to help Skylake sell better since August..this will mean a low supply of Skylakes in the first half of 2016..

Intel is making piles from this..the suppliers have to buy it at any price. Particularly as Intel's only real x86 market, AMD, is having a bit of a snooze.

..All this gives a warning about what will happen if AMD goes under and Intel takes total control.


Intel Slows Sales to Increase Price

From an article regarding recent Intel price manipulation. Its Intel's extensive manipulation of about a decade ago (back when AMD CPU was better than Intel CPU) that deliberately put AMD in a financial bind in the first place (proven in court, Intel paid over $1 Billion settlement -- but it did not cover AMD losses). Thus AMD R&D languished for lack of funds. This kind of behavior is why I am not an Intel fan -- even though their product is a good one.

Anyhow: Honest competition is good smile Price fixing is bad frown

Just an opinion smile
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/25/15 12:05 AM

Developers/Engineers for Zen were given permission to go all out for the first time since K6-II.

Keller oversaw development, now that it's finished he left the team.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/25/15 12:06 AM

Hmmm, I see we hit the post button within a minute of each other smile

And, from the same site as above a few hopeful words about the new AMD CPU design:

Quote:
AMD has said that its Zen engineers had total freedom to build a chip from scratch and come up with the best..

Zen could be the project that either saves AMD or kills it stone dead so it is not as if there is much pressure .. to succeed..

Plummer said that it was the first time in a very long time that engineers have been given the total freedom to build a processor from scratch and do the best we can do. We guess that if you are making a last roll of the dice, you might as well bet the farm on it..

The new cores will offer at least 40 per cent performance improvement at the same clock-rate compared to existing cores.

Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/25/15 04:04 AM

The MS deal is likely to be a share holders/company saving move.

If Zen under performs, AMD will have spent a huge amount on R&D, and got n9thing in return, if MS buys them it'll wipe the debt and allow AMD to continue under MS Hardware Brand.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/19/15 03:26 PM

Another article where AMD claims to have something good on the way -- in late 2016.

AMD's 2016 GPU doubles performance per watt

She says:

Quote:
"We are also focused on delivering our next generation GPUs in 2016 which is going to improve performance per watt by two times compared to our current offerings, based on design and architectural enhancements as well as advanced FinFET products process technology".
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/20/15 03:28 AM

Zen and Zen Rev. 2 are done and tapped,
Designers/Engineers/Architects that are done have left AMD to cut payroll while Zen proceeds to Pre Production.

Performance on Par w/ Intel's Bridge line is expected.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 11/06/15 01:10 PM

Zen and Next Gen GPUs will use 14nm FinFET at Global foundries NY.

No more made in Malaysia CPUs :-)

AMD already has a few working samples...

Bring on Zen.
Posted By: kestrel79

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 11/06/15 03:19 PM

Cool! I've always stuck with AMD for GPUs so looking forward to the next round of cards.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 11/10/15 03:13 PM

One of my friends at AMD told me both Zen and new GPUs for 2016 are tapped out.

Also said Gen1 Fury GPUs were more of a teaser, the real meat and potatoes will be in the HBM2 14nm LPP GPUs.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/07/15 07:22 PM

AM4 Platform will launch in Q1' 2016
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/16/15 03:42 PM

Zen is taped out, but production is not on schedule, prolly 2017......
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/04/16 03:47 PM

Polaris GPU Architecture:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/9886/amd-reveals-polaris-gpu-architecture/3
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/04/16 04:18 PM

Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/08/16 08:02 PM

More Zen News..
http://www.pcworld.com/article/3020184/c...socket-am4.html


Zen Plus Polaris / GCN1.3

Im gonna end up building a new rig this Winter
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/11/16 11:25 AM

If they work as-advertised, my instincts say I'll be buying the new AMD CPU and GPU earlier rather than later (after release and test reports are in).
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/11/16 04:08 PM

Looking at about 5 months before Polaris hits shelves.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/14/16 04:48 PM

AMD Unviels 64bit ARM processors for Enterprise Servers...

Im tellin ya, 2016 is the year AMD comes back hard.

-ARM Business
-Revised Xbox One and PS4 APUs
-Polaris 14nmFinFET GPUs
-AM4 Socket and New Chipset w/ PCIe3, DDR4, USB3
-Zen 14nm FinFET CPUs and APUs
-AMD Radeon Group Took Over Software and GPU Departments.
-AMD Open Source Drivers and Technologies.


Intel's Skylake CPUs have Load Lockup Problems.
Posted By: BlueHeron

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/15/16 12:57 AM

Finally, a reason to upgrade after 6+ years!
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/15/16 04:06 PM

I don't think anyone is using Skylake for servers, though.




The Jedi Master
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/15/16 07:14 PM

naw, but when overclockers and extreme gamers hit their Skylakes with heavy workloads, they lock up.

Its enough to get ppl to sour on Intel.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/15/16 07:23 PM

Originally Posted By: BlueHeron
Finally, a reason to upgrade after 6+ years!


Might not have to overclock my cpu within an edge of its life to match intel users.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/20/16 10:36 AM

An article today says the AMD CEO indicated the AMD GPU will be mid-year and the "Zen" CPU will be at the end of the year. So, Christmas-time to 2017 for the CPU.

The article repeats that the CPU is expected to be 40 percent faster per clock than the current FX CPUs. They are aiming the first Zen CPUs at gamers thumbsup

That being said, I expect Zen to have slower absolute clocks (my current 8 core FX CPU runs at 4.7GHz to 5GHz "stock clocks"). I hope the Zen "clocks" are close to current clocks. I hope we can eventually get 8 to 16 cores (I expect 4 cores at first and would like to be wrong about that).

http://www.fudzilla.com/news/processors/39721-zen-not-arriving-until-the-end-of-the-year
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/20/16 06:43 PM

Can I get a link to read?

Zen is supposed to be 40% IPC over Excavator Cores, which are faster than Piledriver.

Throw away the bad cache of Piledriver and the timing issues, along with the often ignored or mis used CMT eesourse management, and it should be a noticable increase.

AMD Revenue / Cost saw a improvement in 4th Qtr 2015.
http://www.extremetech.com/computing/221...f-server-market
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/21/16 11:19 AM

AMD will change naming scheme for new products from "islands" to "stars and constellations". They're thinking bigger and brighter.

Quote:
Speaking with VentureBeat on Friday, Raja Koduri had the following to say:

"Our guiding principle for the Polaris architecture was power efficiency. We have the new naming scheme for our architectures. It’ll be based on galaxies, star systems, and stars. You’ll see more of this coming in the future. Polaris is the beginning of our journey through space."

Raja also explained that the company has two versions of its new 14nm FinFET GPUs ready to launch by the middle of 2016.

“Both are extremely power efficient. This is Polaris 10 and that’s Polaris 11. In terms of what we’ve done at the high level, it’s our most revolutionary jump in performance so far. We’ve redesigned many blocks in our cores. We’ve redesigned the main processor, a new geometry processor, a completely new fourth-generation Graphics Core Next with a very high increase in performance. We have new multimedia cores, a new display engine.”

AMD’s Polaris family officially marks the beginning of the company’s journey into the great vastness of space. As Andy Weir, author of The Martian says, “Astronauts are inherently insane. And really noble.” Perhaps the same can be said for ambitious GPU architects in the next couple years to come.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/21/16 04:00 PM

http://m.hexus.net/business/news/compone...medium=facebook
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/03/16 03:51 PM

Zen Performance CPUs will be Late Q4 or Early Q1 2017.

AM4 will be Q3, and APUs for AM4 will still be Excavator Cores until Zen APUs arrive.


My brother FX8120 is trash, water pump failed after power outtage, and when I went to take it off, it pulled the CPU right out of the socket.

no Amount of Artic Clean or floss can get the CPU off the block, I think the thermal paste pretty much harded and the CPU is now glued to the block.

So Now I have a Block with a 8 Core CPU stuck to it, and the Substrate package actually cracked, so kts likely trash.

Luckily I had a old system sitting around with AM3 PhenomII sittin in it.

Score 1 for side of the road pickups, lol,
I pick them up to the frequency of 4 or 5 a week and put them in the garage for spare parts etc.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/03/16 03:51 PM

Hopefully Im selected to build and review an AM4 system :-)
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/03/16 07:28 PM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
Hopefully Im selected to build and review an AM4 system :-)


I also hope you're selected. As a "fan", I think its nice to have an "insider" posting here. Even if you do have to adhere to "non-disclosure" for a time, we still get the true story eventually.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/05/16 12:12 PM

An article on how the fundamental technology of CPUs and GPUs will be changing in "just four or five years" -- according to Intel. The article author indicates aspects of the technology may get into high end graphics cards in a couple years.

Quote:
Chipzilla is looking at tunnelling transistors and spintronics and slowly rejecting the need for speed.

According to the Intel’s William Holt, who leads the company’s technology and manufacturing group, Intel will soon have to start using fundamentally new technologies.

He named tunnelling transistors and spintronics as good candidates, but both would require changes in how chips are designed and manufactured, and would likely be used alongside silicon transistors.

Holt said that the technology will not offer speed benefits over silicon transistors and chips may stop getting faster. ...


To me, this means that the "speed wall" I've been expecting (to happen when transistors hit roughly 5um size) may actually be "just around the corner". After the industry hits it, there will be no significant speed increases in GPUs and CPUs. So, if AMD is still in business in 6 years, it will "catch up" to Intel speedwise -- nature will see to it. Could even happen next year with the new AMD CPUs (we'll see on that one). The "speed wall" could virtually put an end to PC upgrading for raw performance (unless they find a practical way to use dozens of CPU cores and threads in normal games).

The whole article is here: Article
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/05/16 01:27 PM

Like I said, first company to develop serial to parallel task manager hardware solution.

or dynamic core mapping (Which is being looked at by AMD), allowing a CPU to Map multiple cores as one large core, or split back into several smaller low power cores.

thus being able to run serial tasks across mutiple threads without a software layer.

will see the advantage until we move from silicon to whatever is next, bio nueral gel packs, etc.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/12/16 02:10 PM

Zen's topend Server part will have 32 Physical Cores + S.M.T.

Zen's Top end desktop part will have 16 Cores + S.M.T. (No GCN Cores)

APUs will likely peak at 8 Cores + S.M.T. + GCN Blocks
Posted By: Ace_Pilto

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/12/16 02:53 PM

Seems to be a case of

Nvidia: Let's make a better GPU

Intel: Let's make a better CPU

AMD: Hurr MOAR CORES
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/12/16 03:03 PM

To be fair, Intel's designs post-Sandy Bridge have all been more evolutionary than revolutionary. The fact that my i7-2600k can run a game from 2015 at max settings well over 30fps (with a GTX 970, not a video card that is the 2600k's contemporary) is indicative of two trends:

Intel resting on its laurels with minor improvements each gen that don't compel upgrades.

Game developers being restricted by weak consoles so as not to develop games twice, but instead first for consoles then barely upscale it for PC. The Division's producers flat-out admitted that the PC version could've looked a lot better but they wanted it to be "fair for console players" not to outdo it too much. rolleyes This means older CPUs aren't challenged much at all.

Intel is waiting for AMD to catch up before it takes its next big leap. Just watch, as soon as AMD releases a chip that is a worthy competitor they'll release their new one 3 months later that takes all the wind out of AMD's launch.




The Jedi Master
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/12/16 04:05 PM

The Intel roadmapnIve seen says otherwise.


also Zen Operton has 8 Channel DDR4.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/12/16 04:08 PM

Originally Posted By: JimmyBlonde
Seems to be a case of

Nvidia: Let's make a better GPU

Intel: Let's make a better CPU

AMD: Hurr MOAR CORES



Server CPUs for Intel and AMD both always had more Cores.

Several smaller cores running 2ish GHz runs server stack processes better than 8 at 4GHz.

Theres 16 Core Piledriver CPUs for AMD, and Intel has a few 24 Core CPUs in the market.
Posted By: Remon

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/13/16 01:02 PM

Originally Posted By: JimmyBlonde
Seems to be a case of

Nvidia: Let's make a better GPU

Intel: Let's make a better CPU

AMD: Hurr MOAR CORES


Complete lack of knowledge.
Posted By: kestrel79

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/18/16 04:29 PM

Any idea when the new AMD GPUs are coming out? I was going to get a R9 390 next month, or should I hold off?
Posted By: Bib4Tuna

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/18/16 05:30 PM

Originally Posted By: kestrel79
Any idea when the new AMD GPUs are coming out? I was going to get a R9 390 next month, or should I hold off?


I'm on the same boat. Eyeing a 390X on sale, but holding off until something more concrete is announced.
Posted By: kludger

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/18/16 05:55 PM

Any rumors about AMD spawning off the GPU division to it's own company?

I just read that Nvidia had record profits this quarter and can't help but think that the AMD GPU part of the company would do much better without being dragged down by the AMD CPU part of the company.

I'm sure doing too many things with little money limits their ability to do R&D, as well as quality of their drivers and the time they are able to spend on optimization (one area where Nvidia excels at).

ATI did pretty well competing with Nvidia before being acquired by AMD, can't help but think they could be really profitable if split out instead of being strapped to the rollercoaster that has been AMD.

Reference: http://www.fudzilla.com/news/graphics/37006-nvidia-announced-record-year-and-q4-revenue
Posted By: Bib4Tuna

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/18/16 06:14 PM

Originally Posted By: kludger
Any rumors about AMD spawning off the GPU division to it's own company?

I just read that Nvidia had record profits this quarter and can't help but think that the AMD GPU part of the company would do much better without being dragged down by the AMD CPU part of the company.

I'm sure doing too many things with little money limits their ability to do R&D, as well as quality of their drivers and the time they are able to spend on optimization (one area where Nvidia excels at).

ATI did pretty well competing with Nvidia before being acquired by AMD, can't help but think they could be really profitable if split out instead of being strapped to the rollercoaster that has been AMD.

Reference: http://www.fudzilla.com/news/graphics/37006-nvidia-announced-record-year-and-q4-revenue



Already happened:

http://www.engadget.com/2015/09/10/amd-forms-radeon-graphics-division/
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/18/16 08:22 PM

They wanted ATI for the APU technology. Unfortunately, they didn't pay enough attention to the CPU and GPU sides to keep competing with both Intel and nvidia.

Intel only competes with AMD. nvidia only competes with AMD. AMD is fighting a two front war except it's not the largest player, in fact it's the smallest I think.




The Jedi Master
Posted By: kludger

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/18/16 08:56 PM

Originally Posted By: Bib4Tuna


Thanks, being a separate division doesn't sound like it goes far enough to me, if it still has to share R&D and profits with the parent unprofitable dying company...

Originally Posted By: Jedi Master

Intel only competes with AMD. nvidia only competes with AMD. AMD is fighting a two front war except it's not the largest player, in fact it's the smallest I think.


+1 totally agree, I just hope they admit it and split the companies before it's too late to recover market share on either front.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/19/16 02:30 PM

Originally Posted By: kestrel79
Any idea when the new AMD GPUs are coming out? I was going to get a R9 390 next month, or should I hold off?


I'm definitely waiting. If the run-up-hype has truth, the new cards (new architecture and new type of 15nm transistors) will make the old 28nm cards "obsolete over night".

Moreover, the current 390 cards aren't "significantly" (in mind of beholder) better than my "years old" Crossfired HD7970s (which play everything). Of course, that's my personal situation -- not applicable to everyone.

We'll see if the hype is actually true. But, I won't take the chance. Just my opinion.

New cards are supposed to be out sooner than later. Summertime -- I've read?? Fall - if they slip??

Just one of many articles: AMD Summer Launch and Detailed GPU Description

From the front page of same site -- One HOUR Ago:

Quote:
...brand new Radeons have been spotted in the vast array of shipping manifests (via VideoCardZ). All upcoming GPUs have to go through the prototyping phase which, thanks to regulations, means they have to be listed in shipping manifests such as this one. While Nvidia has taken to scrambling their code names using a (yet-unknown) cipher, AMD GPUs remain in clear text. These new GPUs will almost certainly constitute the Radeon R9 400 series and at least one of these – is a 14nm FinFET chip...

Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/21/16 05:25 PM

There are still other Chip Companies making x86 chips for the record...
However they are no where near Intel, nor AMD for that matter..

But let's dwell on the Glory days where we had at least 6 Companies Producing Pentium Equivelent Chips, ahh. Socket 7, and the point where Intel Started getting their butts handed too them by Both AMD K6 and the Cyrix6x Chips, so they tried to stick it to everyone by discontinuing Socket 7 Development and ending AMD's License agreement to use Intel Sockets/Mainboard/Chipset.

And since then:
Cyrix -> National Semiconducter -> Texas Instruments -> x86 Discontinued
WinChip/IDT -> VIA -> x86 Discontinued
RiSE -> STME -> SiS -> x86 Discontinued

Intel -> x86 Active
AMD -> x86 Active
MCST -> x86 Active (RUSSIA ONLY)


There's also a half dozen companies scattered in Russia and China making x86 chips, w/ max speed of 400MHz, they are insignificant.
Posted By: flying-hamster

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/22/16 09:14 AM

AMD is currently offering a free game to owners of specific AMD GPUs and CPUs. All you have to do is visit AMD's website, run its verification tool, and select the free game of your choice.

Link

Far Cry 3
Far Cry 3 Blood Dragon
Dirt 3
Saints Row IV
Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed
Guacamelee
LEGO Batman 3: Beyond Gotham
Napoleon - Total War
Sid Meier's Beyond Earth
DiRT Rally
Tales From Space: Mutant Blobs Attack
DYAD
Space Run

everyone loves a free game

thumbsup
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/22/16 12:18 PM

Originally Posted By: flying-hamster
AMD is currently offering a free game to owners of specific AMD GPUs and CPU,,,


I'm giving it a try based on my FX9590 (which was listed as a valid product). I downloaded their software which checked my system. At this point they say I have to wait 48 hours to be verified because their software says my system is unusual.

My system is "home made" (using AMD components). "Home made" may turn out to be an issue.

FWIW, I have successfully gotten a couple free games from AMD based on my GPU card purchases. If I get nothing this time, no big deal.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/22/16 03:20 PM

I've gotten a bunch on steam for having an AMD GPU installed,, (There was a list somewhere, if it detected Ati/AMD Driver it would say "Free")
also had a bunch from when I had my 8800GTS (nVidia).

Also received at least half a dozen from AMD Gaming Evolved App (Raptr), My brother has received a dozen+, since he plays pretty much all day every day and build up the Raptr Points like they are going outta style.

Seeing as I have an AMD CPU, CHipset, 2 AMD GPUs, AMD SSD, I should be good for something, I might put my AMD Radeon Ram Stick back in, lol.


I did get the same 48 hours thing,

Guessing they gonna look at the System Info File.
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/22/16 04:49 PM

There are a lot of companies making old x86 chips for various applications, mine being one of them. smile

However, they don't develop them. They're simply producing old designs, sometimes with minor modifications, for various non-desktop computing needs. In other words, they don't count as competition.



The Jedi Master
Posted By: BlueHeron

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/22/16 08:05 PM

Got excited about this since I buy exclusively AMD, but my hardware is far to old to be on the list of eligible components:

Phenom II X4 955
Radeon HD6950

Probably wouldn't be able to run most of those games anyway! I'll be upgrading the minute Polaris and Zen are on store shelves.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/24/16 03:43 PM

2 days is up, crickets...
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/24/16 06:37 PM

DX12 MultiGPU demos are mesmerizing...
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/25/16 03:28 PM

No emails from them, guess I dont qualify, lol.

Also. AMD Competes on more than 2 fronts.

They are trying to compete in OEM/Rebranded Memory and Storage.

Best Buy here sells the 4GB Sticks of AMD Radeon Memory.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/25/16 06:38 PM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
No emails from them, guess I dont qualify, lol...


When reading the "fine print" on the site, it seems we needed to purchase the item within the last couple months.

Also, when finally seeing the "free games" available for my product, I was not interested in any of them.

However, I've resubmitted my information -- just to be sure it doesn't work smile
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/29/16 02:21 AM

Quote:
Doom (2016) Alpha OpenGL Benchmarks Surface – AMD Radeon and Nvidia Geforce Graphics Cards Put To The Test


Doom 2016 is OpenGL only (no DirectX). In that new game (not yet released) using a new game-engine, AMD outperforms Nvidia "measurably". Might not be "visibly" to normal eyes; but, in the right direction for an AMD fan.

Many AMD and Nvidia cards were tested.

Quote:
To begin with the 1080p benchmarks, all AMD high end offerings perform better than Nvidia counterparts. In fact the R9 290, R9 290X, Fury X and the Nano all perform better than similarly priced Geforce graphics cards. ..

It is a somewhat similar story for the Doom (2106) 4k benchmarks as well...


Article
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/29/16 02:49 PM

An alpha without driver optimization isn't much of a test. Especially when the only optimization done for the alpha was for the consoles, both of which have AMD GPUs, making them expected to run faster. A tie would've been damning.




The Jedi Master
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/29/16 09:43 PM

Any DX12 engine that supports Asyncronous Processing / Compute, cleanly stomps nVidia.
Posted By: Gman45

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/29/16 10:11 PM

I was an AMD user back when they came out with that 233mhz CPU which was 33 mhz better than the 200mhz offering in other IBM/Intel machines back in the Janes 97 days. I also liked their 7970 and 7850 series of cards. Since then, the last few years have been pretty lacking, they don't even make Laptop performance video cards anymore.

Well, until now, they are shipping R9 400 series video cards to Lenovo now for laptops according to wccf tech, and their new Polaris cards and new CPUs coming ARE supposed to be competitive with nVidia. Enough to get me to switch or build an AMD system - who knows? But having a good option that is competitive with nVidia is a GREAT thing for all gamers and users IMO, they've started to punch back with the R9 and Fury cards, but nVidia is far from on the ropes. I have an investment in several high end Gsync monitors, so I'm sorta tied to nVidia due to that, but will gladly purchase a Freesync equivalent (they are cheaper than Gsync across the board too) if AMD proves that with the new Dx12 stuff they can run with the pack again.

Patiently waiting...
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 03/01/16 03:24 PM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
Any DX12 engine that supports Asyncronous Processing / Compute, cleanly stomps nVidia.


Which is great for those engines, a list that is currently ridiculously short.

As no developer will deliberately make an engine that runs like crap on over 50% of the installed gamer base, it's not really a concern.




The Jedi Master
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 03/04/16 12:33 PM

Polaris and Fury x2 Due out in June/July
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 03/04/16 04:48 PM

I hope June/July actually happens.

For a while now, some have been rumoring the initial Polaris release will be 3 cards. One of those will be a "flagship" super card, they rumor.

I want the "flagship" and am preparing psychologically to spend an amount equivalent to current "flagship" cards -- a lot of $$$.

Thing is, at least one site "read the tea leaves" (their "sources") and came up with an "astronomical" initial asking price ($$$$) for the "flagship". If true, that might make me wait some months for the price to fall. Hope not.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 03/04/16 06:40 PM

The Top End Polaris will not be AMDs flagship, the Fury x2 will, and likely $1K+

I'll prolly wait for Zen and new mobo before I do anything. 2x 7970 lightnings with a 3rd in 4x mode is hardly a bottleneck, Piledriver on the other hand is.


Once DX12 is mainstream Xfire will be pointless, DX12 MultiGPU is more efficient.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 03/05/16 03:48 AM

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-zen-polaris-14nm-finfet,31338.html#xtor=RSS-100
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 03/13/16 07:50 PM

Yet another Zen CPU rumor published today:

Quote:
AMD Zen 8 core high enthusiast Summit Ridge CPUs are allegedly slated for an October release on the new AM4 socket. A source close to AMD claims that the eight core Summit Ridge CPU dies have taped out in January and are running through testing and validation right now...

The CPUs allegedly feature a 95W TDP and eight high performance Zen cores with multi-threading for a total of 16 threads. Zen is said to have extremely competitive single threaded performance, with more instructions per clock than Intel’s Broadwell and just a smidgen behind Skylake...



Note the use of the word "allegedly". We'll see what actually happens.

Article
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 03/14/16 03:31 AM

Maybe my Credit card will get paid down enough by then..lol

From what I understand, Zen Cores are perf9rming better than expected in the samples (ie better than 40% over excavator).

Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 03/15/16 04:05 PM

Ahhh, the Goodies of Info coming outta GDC.... Need Zen and Polaris ASAP...
Posted By: BlueHeron

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 03/17/16 09:19 PM

Ditto, my system on already on it's 7th year. I had no idea a gaming machine could go so long without an upgrade, but it's finally outclassed.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 03/18/16 02:24 PM

Mine is on its 5th,

This past weekend had several crashes whcih I assumed were linked to GPUs.

As screen would have corruped desktop rendered etc,

BSODs were occuring whenever I was running a hardware accelerated Program (3Ds Max, Game Engines, Photoshop, MY MP3 software, etc)

Saturday Kernel dumped, didnt see the error code because I was on remote desktop,
Was unable to connect back, when I got home The system was in a BIOS halted stated with Debug beeps and LED Code reporting no VGA, lol I have 3 of them in there!

Saturday night, had a few more crashes, same thing Kernel dump, reboot start loading windows, then BIOS halt.

Sunday Same thing, Except the BIOS Halts were a mix of "No VGA" and "PCIe Device Error"

During this time every few boots my Xfi PCI card was also MIA. (Wierd Right?)

Wednesday Night I pulled the entire thing apart and cleaned, put back together, and booted, same result. Except the BSODs were now within 10 to 15 minutes of loading windows, regardless of activity.

Booted my Windows 10 insider install, same thing randomized quick crashes.

Finally Wednesday Night, the last crash and BIOS halt after reported Chipset Init. Error Code, Manual Says to Clear CMOS.

I tested with 1 GPU, and system still took a dump when using either of the 3.

No way all 3 GPUs go bad at the exact same time.

They all pass Furmark burn in with no problems.

So my system is sitting idle waiting for my day off to clear the bios and restore essential settings.
Posted By: BlueHeron

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 03/18/16 06:11 PM

Wow, I'm not having nearly that much trouble, mostly poor frame rates.

Still, I get a few BSOD per week whereas before this would NEVER happen. I can't figure out how a once stable system using the same OS suddenly crashes. Maybe Windows Updates?
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 03/18/16 06:30 PM

Im thinkin BIOS settings were messed up or the board is dying.

Cant find this board online anymore, And I wanted to keep it due to dual lan and layout.

I dont really want to drop 100 bucks for a new board when AM4 is just around the corner.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 03/21/16 04:38 PM

Zen will require Windows 10+
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 03/21/16 10:03 PM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
...I dont really want to drop 100 bucks for a new board when AM4 is just around the corner.


I'm in same position with my wife's almost-ancient Phenom II 1100 machine with HD5870 graphics (it was my main system before she got it). It does all she needs. But, it has been "on" 16 to 24 hours a day for years. Now, every few days, it "hangs". I don't even want to take the time to look at it because its so close to "retirement". And, I'd hate to spend $50 to fix it.

I plan to buy a Zen and she gets my current FX CPU and HD GPU (below). Hope her machine holds out smile
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 03/22/16 02:43 PM

Im thinkin My issue was,
The First Crash I had last Saturday, somehow corrupted the bios or something,
And it dropped me to BIOS v 1.70P, which was from June 2012.

I know for a fact I updated the BIOS a few times since installing the board, as the first few months I had to manually enter timings for RAM

Later in 2012 I know I Updated BIOS to 1.90P which was from October 2012, and I was happy because it had AMP support among Windows 8 and some other Fixes.

So I didnt have to Manually Enter RAM Timings, It downloaded the XMP Profiles from the sticks.


This Sunday After a bunch of testing Pulling everything but the GPU, *(Pulled HDMI Recording Card, Sound Card, USB 3 Card, everything).

and more crashes w/ kernel dump code leading to memory, I Cleared CMOS, even though it re-tained the date/time for some reason.

I ran memtest on each stick individually for 8 passes, no errors.

Then downloaded the latest bios and flashed it to v2.00P from Jan 2014 (which I know I never had as the layout of the EUFI completely changed).

Went into BIOS, disabled stuff I dont use (Serial, On Board Sound, IEEE, etc etc, and switched HDD modes to ACHI).

Booted Windows, Installed new Drivers for HDDs, Rebooted again.


Right now She's been stable Since 5 PM Sunday w/ 2 memory sticks, 1 GPU and everything else pulled.

I worked on some photoshop last night, and w/ memory cut in half, it was slow saving Hi-Res DDS files.

Im gonna add back the other 2 sticks later this week, if problems persist then it's the slots,
and I'll just spend the money to upgrade to a 2 Stick Kit, and save all the DDR3 sticks for backups,

I think 64 GB is my Max for this board.

as once I upgrade to Zen, this system will still be running.

My brother's FX-8 Core is still stuck to his waterblock and likely broken
(water pump failed, chip super heated th. paste and hardened it, the chip cracked when we tried to use floss to cut the thermal paste),
He's running PhenomII x2 w/ FX Heatsink until I can get him another chip.

Was gonna give him mine, but might end up keeping it.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 03/29/16 06:20 PM

AMD Removing 32-Bit Driver Support.
Posted By: BlueHeron

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 03/29/16 09:22 PM

That's interesting, should save them quite a few software cycles.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 03/30/16 03:30 PM

it was expected, nVidia will be doing the same soon.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/05/16 02:33 PM

Intel Pursuing License Agreement w/ Radeon Technologies Group for GPU Licenses.

So Intel HD might be replaced by Radeon Rx GPU Blocks,

Intel Also Said they Support FreeSync and GPUOpen.


Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/08/16 09:32 AM

Quote:
AMD Radeon R9 490X and Radeon R9 490 With Polaris 10 GPU Rumored For Late June Release – Paper Launch Expected at Computex

AMD might be planning to launch their first FinFET based products in June.. According to a rumor posted by the source, AMD will have two brand new products based on the GCN 4.0 architecture, the Radeon R9 490X and the Radeon R9 490...

Both graphics cards will be the first to feature the Polaris core that has been developed on the 14nm FinFET process from Global Foundries...


Article
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/08/16 05:27 PM

Crap, Ima need to take out a loan or activate a new CC, lol.

or get a 2nd handy Fury X cheap when peeps upgrade.

My R7970s w/ All MiniDP's are causing Havoc w/ Oculus Rift.

Dont remember off hand if these are HBM2 or GDDR5X

Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/08/16 05:39 PM

Quote:
Polaris 10 is AMD’s mid-range 14nm FinFET graphics chip, Polaris 11 is the smallest of the family and Vega 10 is the HBM2 powered high-end flagship 14nm GPU launching in 2017 to succeed the Fury lineup. It will feature AMD’s next generation Vega architecture and will be the company’s first GPU to feature second generation High Bandwidth Memory.


Same site as above. They claim this info is almost certainly correct -- though still unconfirmed.

Perhaps this means I will not be getting a card this year -- as I intend to wait for "the big one".
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/08/16 06:33 PM

Likely the same, rather have the 40+% performance increase, newer chipset, Usb3.1, pci-e 3.0, DDR4 (meh), and NVMe Protocol for SSDs.

I know someone who had the same Xfire setup I did, and his FPS jumped considerably when he switched to a newer platform w/ the same GPU's.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/09/16 01:17 PM

Quote:
AMD’s Radeon Duo Pro will be officially launching on the 26th of April 2016. The GPU houses two full-fledged Fiji GPUs with a total of 8196 stream processors and 8GB HBM (memory). The card prominently features LiquidVR – which is AMD’s purpose built platform for VR content. The dual-GPU monster has an MSRP of $1500 and will be landing at the end of April.

The Radeon Duo Pro, so far, holds the title of the most powerful graphics card...


This is not the next generation 14nm GPUs which are expected to begin arriving in late June or July.

This one is primarily aimed at Virtual Reality headsets. And the dual-GPU is optimized for that (you need one GPU per eye, ideally). But, its also a Crossfire setup for folks with multiple 2K or 4K monitor Eyefinity setups.

Article
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/09/16 09:09 PM

I thought that was a "pro" card, for Studio Rendering etc...
Posted By: BlueHeron

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/09/16 10:05 PM

That's what I thought too, Skate.

I can't wait for the Vega, my HD6950 just doesn't keep up anymore. frown So it's the Polaris ASAP, then I'll get Vega or Navi in a couple of years.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/10/16 10:28 AM

My 4 year old 28nm HD7970s have 2048 stream processors each (4096 total). And, they still run everything the way I set up for games (default AMD Radeon Settings, "ultimate" in game-settings, highest resolution downloadable textures when available, 0AA). Usually, one card is enough (2048 stream processors).

I want at least 4096 stream processors on a single 14nm GPU. So, I may wait -- now that I know the 14nm "big one" is not due until 2017. I may follow SkateZilla's plan and upgrade my FX9590 CPU first (at the end of 2016 -- at black Friday prices, I hope smile ). Anyhow, I'll "play it by ear" as the cards are released and test reports come out.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/14/16 03:16 PM

Consumer Pascal will be GDDR5X as well.

HBM2 is still in short supply, therefore cost is high, so it will only appear on Pro/Studio Rendering Cards this summer.
Posted By: BlueHeron

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/15/16 02:42 PM

What are the supposed gains of using HBM2 over GDDR5, and how much? Will it affect performance (FPS) as well, or only the amount of textures that can be loaded into memory? Not sure if this a dumbass question. wink
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/15/16 08:01 PM

Originally Posted By: BlueHeron
What are the supposed gains of using HBM2 over GDDR5, and how much? Will it affect performance (FPS) as well, or only the amount of textures that can be loaded into memory? Not sure if this a dumbass question. wink


HBM2 Memory is Stacked Directly Onto the GPU's Substrate Package.

HBM2
+Less Power,
+Easier to Cool,
+Smaller Memory Chip Footprint,
+1024-Bit Interface
+8GB Per Stack (GPU's Usually use 4 Stacks, so up to 32GB for HBM2)
+Faster Memory Lane's to GPU
-Higher Cost
-Lower Production Yield

GDDR5X
+Cheaper than HBM2
+Higher Production Yields
-More Voltage
-More Heat
-More PCB Space Used
-Slower and Longer Memory Lanes to GPU
-512-Bit Interface
-1 GB Per Chip Max


GDDR5X is Simply an Extension of GDDR5 to enable Extreme Clocks (10-12Gbps)(2500MHz - 3000MHz)

GDDR5X Total Bandwidth still doesnt even match the HBM1 Memory used on the AMD Fury GPU's
However HBM1 was limited to 4GB, Thus the Reason why AMD Chose to go w/ GDDR5X short term, Because 4GB isn't enough for some extreme Resolutions and VR Setups anymore. Next Gen Flagships will be 8, 12 or 16 GB.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/21/16 03:32 PM

AMD 400 Series Due out this Summer will be Polaris 10 and 11 and New Chips from top to bottom, No Rebrands.

Top tier will get GDDR5x, Bottom Tier GDDR5.

HBM2 Due Out Next year, followed by NGM1 in 2018.

Depending on specs and Price, even sans HBM2, a 480/490X might be my target once prices come down, and in 2 Ywars jump to the NGM Cards.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/22/16 10:01 AM

A visual depiction of where things are rumored to be headed:

Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/22/16 02:25 PM

Cats outta the bag finally:
http://www.extremetech.com/computing/227...-chinese-market

AMD Might be catching up sooner than people think with Zen Family,
Intel has announced they wil "Scale Back Desktop Processor Development Significantly", And aim more for mobile market.

AMD also has new Deals with Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft ( For Polaris Products, separate contracts from the XBO/PS4/NX agreements ).
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/23/16 08:40 PM

Worth the Watch, Definitely


Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/25/16 09:29 AM

Just another statement confirming that AMD Polaris 10 based cards are the "flagship" products, this year. Presumably, they're out in June/July. Nvidia seems to be targeting the same time-frame for their new flagship, from what I've read (but, I don't follow Nvidia closely).


Quote:
The AMD Polaris 10 GPU is known to be the flagship chip based on the GCN 4.0 architecture. The Polaris 10 will remain the flagship until Vega arrives which is launching in 2017. .. Polaris 10 sounds like a replacement to the Fury X but in fact, it is replacing the mainstream lineup.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/25/16 03:27 PM

Polaris Replaces R9-390X and Below, Fury will remain in production.
All the Tahiti Rebrands and Hawaii Rebrands will discontinue production.

Navi is where it's at though.

NGM, Scalable GPU, Instead of one BIG EXPENSIVE CHIP that will have low Yields per wafer,
They will put 4 smaller Chips on a Single Interposer w/ NGM. As far as the PC is Concerned it's one GPU, when it's really 4.

So Top End w/ Be 4, Mid will be 3, Mainstream 2, Entry 1.

The videos above describe perfectly why this will save Money left and right.

nVidia's New Monster Chip, is selling for $5000, because they only get so many good ones per/wafer.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/25/16 07:48 PM

Finally had the time to watch the videos. Thanks for posting them.

The presenter's "speculation" regarding the future of AMD, Nvidia, and Intel sounds quite thoughtful and believable. As a fan, it was fun to watch/listen to a positive evaluation of AMD's possible near-future.

Conclusion: Bye bye, Nvidia (well, maybe) wink

Anyhow, at first blush, it sounds like I should plan on a Polaris 10 sooner than later. Then, I can anxiously look forward to the Navi as the card to follow my Polaris 10 -- and hope Navi becomes what the presenter "speculated" it would be.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 04/27/16 02:40 PM

I might have to bite the bullet and upgrade my GPU First,

None of my Lightnings work w/ VR Headsets (no HDMI, all MiniDP and Single Link DVI).

Tried 4 Different MiniDP-> HDMI Adapters, 1.4 Active, 1.4 Passive, 2.0 Active, etc,

None worked 100%,

So I've resorted to downgrading my GPU's to the 7870XT Backup (7930), as I gave my 7950 OC to my brother.

Seems I can Get a 4 GB R9-380X for lil over $200, and I expect that to drop a bit when 400 Series Launches,

So I might see the 400 Series Prices as well.

But I need more than 1536 Sh and 2GB of Ram to Run VR. lol.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/02/16 11:49 AM

Quote:
AMD's desktop and notebook midrange Polaris GPU lineups are expected to be announced during or soon after Computex 2016 in Taiwan (May 31st - June 4th) early this summer.


Hopefully, a single highest end Polaris 10 will be nearly as fast as my 2x HD7970 Crossfire. That would be enough incentive to buy a new card at around $350 (the rumored price range). But, rumors are rumors. Maybe we'll see some facts at the end of this month.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/02/16 03:14 PM

Ditto,

Replace the Xfired Lightnings, Keep them preserved, When I build a new system, put lightnings back in the old one and use that one for studio rendering, and the new rig for gaming smile
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/07/16 02:36 AM

GTX1080 Priced at $599, Titan Crushing Performance, half the TDP.

Big Beefy Chip, they gotta be selling them at a loss to try and maintain market share.
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/07/16 06:33 AM

1080 it is for me........just waiting for the £££ conversion but no doubt it will be £699 as we usually get ripped off.
Posted By: flying-hamster

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/07/16 08:44 AM

From there press release:

At a special event today, Nvidia announced their new flagship graphics card: the GeForce GTX 1080. The card uses a new Pascal GPU built on a 16nm FinFET process, as well as GDDR5X memory from Micron. Nvidia says they spent several billions of dollars developing Pascal, and the result is a massive GPU capable of powering today and tomorrow's games at ultra quality settings. It's also energy efficient thanks to improvements in the way Nvidia delivers power to the GPU, making Pascal the company's most efficient architecture yet.

According to Nvidia, the GTX 1080 is "a whole lot" faster than the Titan X, and faster than two GTX 980s in SLI, while consuming a lot less power. The chart below sees the GTX 1080 consume around 180W of power, compared to the 165W TDP of the GTX 980, with performance around 30% faster than the Titan X. An on-stage demo of the GTX 1080 had the card's core running at 2.1 GHz air cooled, with a temperature of less than 70°C. While these aren't the stock clock speeds for the 1080, it shows just how overclocking friendly this card will be. The stock clock speeds for the GTX 1080 are 1607 MHz with a boost of 1733 MHz, on 2,560 CUDA cores. This suggests the card is using a GP104 core rather than the full GP100 GPU used on the Tesla P100, which comes partially-disabled with 3,584 CUDA cores.

The GTX 1080 will retail for $599 in its basic edition, and $699 for "Founder's Edition", although it's not completely clear what benefits the Founder's Edition will bring. The card will be available worldwide from May 27th. There will also be a GTX 1070 available for $379 ($449 for the Founder's Edition), which Nvidia says is faster than a GTX Titan X, packing 6.5 TFLOPs of performance and 8 GB of GDDR5 memory. The GTX 1070 will be available from June 10th.
GTX1080

Over to you AMD,intersting the stats on Nvida's website are against the 980 not the 980ti or titan and the recomended power supply is only 500 watts!!?
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/07/16 09:47 AM

Competition is good -- increases options and decreases prices smile
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/07/16 11:02 AM

By the way, it will be interesting to compare AMDs 14nm manufacturing process "performance" to Nvidia's 16nm manufacturing process.

Until the actual comparison-test reports come in, we can't say which is better. There are rumors -- but they are rumors.

Nonetheless, "on paper", AMD 14nm should have a "measurable" performance advantage -- in FPS and/or power use. They should also cost less per chip at a given performance level.

Thing is, AMD is said to be aiming at "very low power requirements" and "low price" with the first Polaris cards (versus highest possible FPS). Nvidia may have emphasized something else. So, we won't know anything for sure until both AMD 14nm and Nvidia 16nm cards are on the market and tested on a spectrum of different games.
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/07/16 12:49 PM

A few interesting features on the Pascal cards for VR too
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/07/16 02:49 PM

http://www.geforce.com/hardware/10series/geforce-gtx-1080

1 Power Connector :-O
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/09/16 10:47 AM

Quote:
Nvidia’s latest GeForce flagship gaming card, the GTX 1080, is already in the hands of reviewers as Nvidia begins seeding evaluation samples to the press who will be putting the company’s latest product through its paces ahead of the card’s May 27th launch date.

Reviews will go live on May 17th.


The Nvidia "1080" is anticipated to be a $600 card and the 1070 closer to $500. The May 27 launch is for a $700 card. Previous rumors indicated Nvidia production was behind AMD. So, the first cards out may be in "short supply" -- almost a "paper launch" (Nvidia has done this before -- we'll see how it turns out this time).

Recent AMD Polaris 10 rumors imply AMD will first release a $299 to $350 product. AMD's rationale is rumored to be that the vast majority of Gamers won't spend much more than $300 for a card (although, SimHq members might be exceptions to that rule smile ).

Anyhow, the new AMD marketing plan is rumored to be "high sales volume" (with excellent performance) versus Nvidia's "fastest card on the market" (that few will actually buy because of the high price). Nontheless, the Nvidia strategy does keep Nvidia in the "public eye" -- which has great impact on sales volume overall.

Hopefully, AMD will keep the "late May to early July" time frame that they are rumored to be targeting.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/09/16 02:20 PM

AMD is seeing the bigger picture,

nVidia is still living in the 2002 market.
PC Sales are Struggling w/ Mobile Devices taking over, Gaming PC's of the $2000+ Variety are losing out to Consoles, etc etc.

The only way to bring customers back to PC Gaming is to give them cheaper hardware.

nVidia's Full PASCAL GPU is selling for $5000,

1080 is about 1/2 of the Full GPU at $500
1070 slightly less

nVidia's GPU's are Huge, they get less per wafer and even less yields due to defects,

Almost guaranteed they are selling the 1000 series at a loss, they dont want to lose their 80% Discrete Marketshare.

AMD is Fabricating smaller GPU's, while they wont have a Fastest in the world this round, they will have more GPU's per wafer and more complete GPU's yielded.

Next Gen (Navi), will be scalable via interposer (2/3/4 GPU's on the Interposer w/ HBM2. As Far as System and DX12 is concerned it's one GPU, when it's really in fact multiple.

Crossfire and SLi will likely be dead in 2 years, there's no point when DX12+ Supports Explicit Multi GPU, and Vulkan will have it's own version of the same tech.


The Bigger Picture?
Discrete GPU's are 15% of the Total GPU Market Share right now, w/ Consoles Taking up 75% (65% Current 10% past)

AMD owns about 78% of the Total Market share via owning 100% of the Consoles, part of past consoles, and 100% of the 3 next gen consoles.

Developers, Who have relied on nVidia Pro Cards to develop on, will start shifting their Studios to AMD Pro/Sumer Cards,
NO Point developing on nVidia Architecture when 80+% of the Market will be running on GCN1.1, 1.2 and 1.3.

No there's the "Port to PC" Market, The Games will be coded to be efficient on GCN as the consoles run them, no one is gonna fork out $600+ FOR A gpu when a Entry/Mid Level $260 and Below GPU can Run the Games at 1080p/60fps which is still the standard.

Their 80% PC Marketshare is about to take a nose dive.
They cant afford to turn people away w/ another $1499 Card that will be replaced by a faster cheaper one a few months layer (Titan/x80Ti's).

Now PC GPU Market Share is about 15%,
Multiple GPU's is about 2% of that, if not Less.
4K and VR are still a small % of that 15% as well.
XFire / SLi is a hassle to code for, developers would rather not deal with it at all. the amount of XFire/SLi Supported titles being released drops like a rock every quarter.

Further proof SLi is dead, a majority of the new "GameWorks ready Effects/Engines" in nVidia's GameWorks SDK do not support SLi, but will work fine w/ DX12 EMA.

Even when Navi/Scalable GPU's Launch, the GPU Die's themselves will be cheaper to manufacture and they will get more per wafer, so a 2 GPU Die on a Single Interposer Card would cost significantly less than a card w/ a GPU that has 1.5-2.5x the die size.


Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/09/16 07:49 PM

I'll just say this--market share is irrelevant when a majority of your products are sold at low margins.

My company, which is a semiconductor company that sells chips to many of the big companies out there, including Intel, GM, and others I'm not allowed to name, recently dumped manufacturing many high-profile yet low-margin chips for them. I believe one was for the Xbox, actually.
If you need to make 500,000 chips that cost you 75 cents, that you only sell for $1, but have yield issues such that you're only making $50,000 profit on that order...why bother? Using that manufacturing capacity (which is finite) to make smaller numbers of higher margin chips just makes sense.

Having large market share for name recognition is not more meaningful than having the fastest card for name recognition. Larger profits are.

It's a simple investor fact--if you're selling a small number of chips at a large profit margin, well you can sell more to increase profits. That looks good. If you're selling a large number at a small margin, well you're not going to be able to increase the price...so you have to sell even MORE chips which becomes harder and harder to do as numbers increase. That looks iffy.

It looks to me like you're trying to spin things as positive or negative because you want them to be so, not because there's any real truth to it. Intel and nvidia aren't worried, and AMD isn't feeling like they're about to crush the competition.

Simply put AMD is trying to fight a two front war, when none of its competitors are, whilst having the least amount of resources. nvidia went whole-hog into discrete and mobile, never cared about CPUs. Intel went with CPUs and mobile, never really cared about discrete although they've done some integrated. AMD's mobile side isn't as strong as either of the others as they tried to do the CPU/GPU/APU thing. Intel and nvidia really only compete with AMD, not each other.

AMD's purchase of ATI was a gamble that might have paid off if they'd come out with great APUs within a year or two of the acquisition. They took too long, WAY too long, and the market has changed away from PCs and consoles to the point where the area they're strongest in is now the weakest part of the market-. It's like declaring in 2016 you have the best mounted cavalry division in the world. Great, if it was 150 years ago, but how does that help against mechanized infantry and air support?

IMO AMD needs to bite the bullet and redivide into the old AMD/ATI again so they can focus their efforts correctly. ATI might be able to best nvidia, but AMD/ATI never will because they're worried about Intel. AMD might beat Intel, but AMD/ATI never will because they're worried about nvidia. They're unwilling or unable to ignore one and focus on the other.
If AMD's lackluster showings weren't obvious, all you need to do is look at the evolutionary, not revolutionary, products nvidia and Intel have been shipping the past few years. I went from an i7-2600k to a Skylake and saw modest improvements only...because Intel doesn't need to push it. Likewise my 770 to 970 jump helped things but not in any jaw-dropping way...because nvidia doesn't need to push it.

It's been years since I bought an AMD CPU or GPU because they've not had the best performance in the price range I look at of roughly $350 each for my lone PC. There was a time when I had an FX and a Radeon, but W was president.
Like HP's purchase of Compaq, or 3dFX of STB, the ATI buy was a strategic error that has had lasting effects.



The Jedi Master
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/09/16 08:39 PM

Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
...It looks to me like you're trying to spin things as positive or negative because you want them to be so, not because there's any real truth to it. Intel and nvidia aren't worried, and AMD isn't feeling like they're about to crush the competition...


Good analysis of "price, volume, profit".

Its cool to have some positive things to say about AMD -- to an AMD fan smile

And, we fans would sure like things to get better businesswise for AMD because:

Competition is Good and AMD is the only realistic competition for Intel and Nvidia (I'd hate to think how slow CPU and GPU progress would be and how much things could cost without competition).

However, we're not trying to "spin". Spin is a form of lying.

Rather, we're simply regurgitating rumors regarding AMD -- and hoping they're true "this time". They've been in error in the past. So, as usual, we hope and wait for the test reports and the financial statements.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/10/16 11:23 AM

Since we've provided some Nvidia info in this AMD thread, here's a bit more to clarify Nvidia's new-era 16nm products that AMD new-era 14nm products will be competing against:

Quote:
[Nvidia] Founders Edition means "reference clockspeeds with an upgraded heatsink"

With the launch of Nvidia’s Geforce Pascal lineup this week beginning with Geforce GTX 1080 and GTX 1070 .. [what are the] actual differences between Nvidia’s reference card designs and the alternative Founders Edition models that will cost an extra $70 and $100, respectively.

..According to journalists briefed on the matter, the basic idea here is that Nvidia is replacing the word “reference card” with the term “Founders Edition” .. its new “Founders Edition” units will feature some upgraded heatsink and cooling technology ...



And another AMD rumor similar to previous ones,

Quote:
...26th – 29th May. AMD will be officially announcing their next-gen Polaris based graphics cards. These will include products based on both Polaris 10 and Polaris 11 chips. It’s not surprising that AMD is hosting this event just a few days after the NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 will be available to public. It is not confirmed whether AMD will paper launch their graphics cards at this date but knowing that the NVIDIA cards will already be out in the market, AMD will definitely [it is speculated] be aiming for a full retail launch...

Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/10/16 02:30 PM

I dont think R9-480X is gonna be double my R7970.

But if they Have the same power consumption drop as nVidia, I'll be glad w/ 1 GFX Card taking up a Single 6 or 8 Pin Connector. smile

Less heat the better.

w/ DX12 Explicit Multi-Adapter, XFire and SLi is dead from DX12 Onward. (Vulkan uses Similar Underlying tech).

Also helps as AMD as I said before can slap 2,4,,6 or however many GPU's on a Interposer and DX12 will pool them into ONE GPU, and not have to worry about XFire Drivers/Profiles.

So DX12 Sees One GPU Pooled, But Each GPU will have it's own resources on die (Compute Engines, Command Processors, Schedulers etc).

4 Schedulers, Compute Engines and Command Processors Maintaining 1500SP's each is better than 1 Scheduler/Command Processor/Compute Engine trying to drive 6000SP's by itself.

Especially in Multiple Viewport Renderers (ie VR), and Engines that allow Unlinked Explicit Multi-Adapter.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/11/16 01:50 PM

AMD has moved the VEGA10/HBM2 launch up.
Posted By: BlueHeron

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/11/16 08:43 PM

Link?
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/11/16 08:53 PM

Originally Posted By: Allen


However, we're not trying to "spin". Spin is a form of lying.

Rather, we're simply regurgitating rumors regarding AMD -- and hoping they're true "this time". They've been in error in the past. So, as usual, we hope and wait for the test reports and the financial statements.


I would also classify spin as drawing a positive conclusion from facts and rumors that could also easily lead to a negative conclusion, but choosing to go with positive.

For example - fact: politician accused of scandal. Not proven, just an accusation that went public.

Positive spin would be people rushing to their defense, giving character testimonials, positing conspiracy to stain record to hamper their effectiveness, etc. No lies, just refusing to believe the scandal is true and that it's an attempt to hinder them, innocent till proven guilty with irrefutable proof.
Negative spin would be expressing sadness/outrage/shock that said politician could do such a thing, speculating on the likelihood of a resignation and the timing (hinting that sooner is better), casting aspersions on those who are defending the accused as being complicit, etc. No lies, just instantly believing the worst of them, guilty till proven innocent with irrefutable proof that it was a lie to begin with.

You could say that because AMD's new product X is Y% percent better they're going to dominate the product cycle as its competitors scramble to catch up, or you could say that despite the improvements in the technology on paper, AMD has a history of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory and that they need a miracle to have a result that does more than just perpetuate the status quo.
Both based on the facts/rumors of the new product, but very different perspectives of what it means for the company and its customers.

That's what I mean by spin--putting a rosy face on the worst news or dumping cold water on the best news.

I don't have an opinion on the rumor one way or another, I just think based on recent history it's expecting more from AMD than they've proved they're likely to deliver. They've certainly done it in the past, but that past is getting more and more distant and investors want to see a victory today or tomorrow. It's the perils of being a publicly traded company in the 21st century. Even the mighty Apple is showing cracks to its investors.




The Jedi Master
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/12/16 03:37 AM

No More Tahiti and Hawaii Re-Brands.

Polaris 10/11 will cover R9-490X all the way down, no mo GCN 1.0, 1.1, GCN1.2 Rebrands

Everything will be 14nm FinFET GCN1.3 w/ DP1.3 and HDMI2.0a and GDDR5X.

Fury/FuryX will continue to be the Top GPU for the "Enthusiast market", (At Least until Vega10 and HBM2 are ready in 2017ish(Now October 2016))
Though it might get a design update a lil to compete w/ the 1070/1080s (Lower Price, Higher Clock Rates, etc.)
But it will be the same GPU as before.
Clock increase and $75 Price Drop would keep it competitive w/ 1070/80. as it's about 10% behind now in DX12 (AOS Bench), That's 3 FPS at 30, 6 FPS at 60, 9 FPS at 90, 12 FPS at 120, 14 FPS at 144 Hz, easily overcome by slight overclock.
Negligible to the Human Eye.

Looking at the Scope of things, AMD Can Get away w/ it easily.

Polaris is a small Die compared to Hawaii XT and Fiji, kepler and Pascal...

Let me put it this way:
-Full 16nm Pascal Die 610mm^2 ( GP100 - 3584 Cuda Cores)
(This Full Pascal GPU is Retailing for $5000 in Pro Market, will launch later for gamer consumer market w/ 16GB max HBM2)
-Full 16nm Pascal Die 436 (est.) mm^2 (GP104 - 2560 Cuda Cores)
(This is the GPU used in GTX1080 and Laser Cut for GTX1070)

-Full 28nm Fiji Die 596mm^2
-Full 28nm HawaiiXT Die is 438mm^2
-Full 28nm TahitiXT Die is 352mm^2
-Full 14nm FinFET Polaris is 232mm^2
(This would put it about 3000ish SPs, Slightly Higher than Hawaii, and AMD has been touting 2.5x Density, so it maybe more than that if 232mm^2 = 580mm^2 density (3700ish SPs)

Alas we'll find out in a couple weeks..

Now,
The Bigger the GPU Die, the less you can put on a wafer, and lower the yields from said wafer due to defects in the manufacturing process and wafers.

The Smaller the GPU Die, the more you can fit on a wafer, and higher yields from said wafer.

ie,
if you can put 4 GPU Dies on a wafer, and the wafer has 1 defect, you lose 25% of the wafer and 1 GPU, left w/ 3 Viable Samples.
if you can put 8 GPU Dies on a wafer, and the wafer has 1 defect, you lose 12% of the wafer and 1 GPU, Left w/ 7 viable Samples.


So in conclusion:
Big GPU Dies Fit Less per Wafer and Produce Lower yields Per wafer, forcing price to skyrocket to pay for manufacturing costs (nVidia and AMD Both Pay for the wafers)

Small GPU Dies fit more per wafer and produce Higher yields per wafer, allowing price to stay lower and sell more units per wafer.

now, Add abotu 2 years to this Equation w/ DX12 and Vulkan Both using Low Level GPU Pooling (explicit multi adapter mode etc).

Add Interposers to the GPU Design, and Suddenly 2 to 4+ GPU Die's Per Substrate Package is more powerful and cheaper than one large chip of competing size.

ie:
4 Schedulers, 4 Compute Engines and 4 Command Processors Maintaining 1500SP's each (6000 Total)
Would Perform better than 1 Scheduler/Command Processor/Compute Engine trying to drive 6000SP's by itself.
Especially in Multiple Viewport Renderers (ie VR)

And Cost Significantly Less to manufacture.


This is where Navi takes over, One Small GPU DIE Design, that is Linked w/ Multiple Dies on the Interposer to Form High Performance GFX Cards.
Posted By: kludger

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/12/16 06:27 PM

I don't buy into the rumors too much, the only thing that sways me is when Nvidia and AMD have products in reviewers hands that can be compared, I buy my GPUs based on bang for buck for the types of games I play, no loyalty at all...

I think AMD moving up their launch date is reaction to NVidia's release dates for the 1000 cards. Hope both of them have strong products so that we consumers have a good choice, and also so prices are competitive, in the current gen there hasn't been very equal competition, and the price for the same GTX 970 I have has stayed roughly the same since I bought it 18months ago...

GPU prices have been flat and high for too long:
https://pcpartpicker.com/trends/price/video-card/
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/12/16 07:15 PM

Quote:
...the only thing that sways me is when Nvidia and AMD have products in reviewers hands that can be compared, I buy my GPUs based on bang for buck for the types of games I play, no loyalty at all...



Agree. We fans have learned that rumors are rumors -- only cold hard data and cold hard prices are fact.

No loyalty and basing procurements on objective facts is, needless to say, a sensible, commendable stance. thumbsup

As fans, some of us have loyalty to certain companies -- in that we want to see them succeed. For some of us, those feelings are not based on performance or stock prices. Rather based on the actions of certain companies over the decades we've been following the IT business. Some companies have left a "good taste" and some have left a "bad taste" based on their business practices. But, much of this is "old news" -- so, I'll leave it at that.

AMD has not been infallible. Some products are quite good (particularly graphics cards) and cost effective but to an extent that has been overshadowed by a nearly fatal error. To me, the genuine mistake was the deliberate design direction they took with the "Bulldozer" CPU (which has spawned the current FX CPUs and CPU parts of AMD APUs). The direction they took was a "dead end" -- and they should have known that -- heck, even I knew that when they did it.

The upcoming Zen CPUs (this Fall??) are set to totally erase that CPU error -- according to the rumors. Intel may remain slightly in the lead, but not by enough to worry about -- according to the rumors smile

And, a couple years from now, the AMD GPU design is set to be a "game changer" -- according to the rumors. I won't be surprised if Nvidia matches it smile

Now, if only AMD The Company can stay in business that long.

Competition is good smile
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/12/16 08:01 PM

I've already seen Polaris 10 and 11 in action... I just havent seen exact Core Counts and TFLOP Data.

Unless you game at 120Hz and/or 4K, R9-480/490 (top End Polaris 10 GPUs) will be enough.


As for the Construction Cores/Modules....
Where to begin, the approach might have looked good in theory/on paper,
But it was plagued by Poor Design Decisions (using Parts of old Architectures instead of designing new ones, Internal Fabrication issues set it back 16 months, which set it back even further on the performance gap, the long delay in deciding to abort the architecture and start from scratch.)

Jim Keller came in and told the design team to throw away everything and not to look at old architectures, build every part of the die from the ground up.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/12/16 08:08 PM

nVidia as of right now stated they have no plans of making small GPU Dies a Priority, they enjoy cramming large dies on their wafers only to throw a bunch of them away to fabrication defects.

Hence the $5000 Price tag of GP100, they simply have no yields w/ the 610+mm^2 Die, they cant even sell it to consumer market because there arent enough working samples, and the cost of the working samples.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/13/16 12:06 AM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
...Hence the $5000 Price tag of GP100, they simply have no yields w/ the 610+mm^2 Die, .. there arent enough working samples, and the cost of the working samples.



Nvidia went that path once before (a few years back), as I remember it. They only managed a couple thousand GPUs that worked. They sold them to the public at a loss -- so they could continue to advertise that "Nvidia was the fastest".

Of course, lately they've been doing well.

Meantime, AMD said years ago, they would make fast cards. However, it was pointless to compete for the "fastest card on the market" with Nvidia because Nvidia would "do whatever necessary and spend whatever necessary" to produce the fastest card and win. "Fastest" has always been the "bedrock" of Nvidia GPU brand recognition. If Nvidia's fastest card isn't the fastest made, they really screwed up (or AMD did really good).
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/13/16 02:28 PM

The Mis-Conception w/ the Internet is the The Pro Duo wasn't meant to be a FuryX2.

It's not gonna get performance of a Fury x2.

It's a ProSumer Hybrid Card, deisgned to both do Content Creation and Gaming.

I still get tons of Support Emails/Messages asking why their "$4000 nVidia GPU sucks in games".,
From People that don't realize there are Differences in the Gaming and Professional/WorkstationCards, and Their Drivers.

The Pro Duo Uses Dual Fiji GPU's but also has Workstation Components as well as Gaming Components.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/13/16 03:06 PM

Some "Leaked" Specs showing up on Twitter this morning, though they counter info I have.

But:
R9-490X / Polaris 10 Die
32 Compute Units / 64 SP Per / 2048 SP
140w TDP / Single Power Connector
8 GB GDDR5x @ 17500MHz x 4 on 256-Bit Interface
5.6TFLOPs
HDMI 2.0a, MiniDP 1.3

Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/13/16 03:22 PM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
Some "Leaked" Specs showing up on Twitter this morning, though they counter info I have.

But:
R9-490X / Polaris 10 Die
32 Compute Units / 64 SP Per / 2048 SP
140w TDP / Single Power Connector
8 GB GDDR5x @ 1400MHz x 5 on 256-Bit Interface
5.6TFLOPs
HDMI 2.0a, MiniDP 1.3



How can the bandwidth be so low...spec wise it isn't a million miles away from the GTX 1080
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/13/16 04:02 PM

Bandwidth?
Both are on 256-Bit Bus.
2500MHz x4 for 10Gbps isnt really needed for the type of Gaming the Polaris 10 GPUs are designed for.

That being said, nVidia bumps clocks up like crazy all the time, their GPU's are practically gonna be hitting 2GHz on AIB Products.

Gotta question What's the benefit in cranking from 7GHz to 10GHz? Other than Power Consumption and maybe 10-15%

.


Also, My Mistake, the AMD GDDR5X Runs at 1750MHz x4 , hit "5" instead of "4".

My info actually says Polaris 10 will have more than 2048 SP, and more than 7Gbps GDDR5X Memory.

But the "Leaked" Specs floating around today are no where near the ones I have from more reliable sources.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/13/16 07:13 PM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
...My info actually says Polaris 10 will have more than 2048 SP...


Hope that's accurate. I imagine it will need roughly 2800 SP and roughly 50 percent higher clocks than the 28nm cards to be the card I want. We'll see. Good to have an AMD "insider" posting here smile

Ideally, I'm looking for something roughly "twice" the performance of one of my current 4 year old 28nm cards. If I could get that for the rumored price, its a done deal. I don't really care how they multiply Stream Processor count and clock rate to get that 2X performance. However, I know that will not translate to every game being 2X FPS (for example, a few older games are more CPU limited and may show little or no increase).
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/13/16 08:01 PM

Anything higher ^2800 is likely gonna be the Vega 10s.

But the Polaris 10 Full Die is supposed to replace the Hawaii GPU's, while only Needing Single 8 Pin Connector.

2300 maybe...
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/14/16 11:51 AM

A couple things:

First note:

I just ran 3D Mark FireStrike Extreme on my system (the correct Firestrike for a 2K monitor). My system is not overclocked. Firestrike Extreme was visibly smooth.

Performance of my Crossfired HD7970s was just above AMD R9Fury and about 10 percent below Nvidia GeForce GTX1080 (presumed, leaked Nvidia performance was published).

Its hard to see paying a lot for 10 percent -- which is "measurable" by 3DMark but "invisible" to the "naked eye". Of course, the new cards would be faster than mine in SLI or CrossFire; but, for my use, the point of the new cards is to do away with CrossFire (Crossfire and SLI are said to be -- on the way out).

Lots of folks have a pair of HD7970s. Apparently, they're "old", but not yet "bad" -- according to 3DMark Firestrike.


On a second note:

I noted above that Nvidia will take a loss to win.

In a rumor just published (less than an hour ago at this writing) the author notes that Nvidia is rumored to have just won a contract with Nintendo for a hand held console (up to now, AMD has won all the new consoles). The article says:

Quote:
...the Nintendo NX handheld will be using Nvidia Tegra-based SoC. Apparently, the Nvidia team was told to get a console win no matter what, and Nintendo supposedly got a very favorable deal, so favorable that .. According to one source, Nvidia may even be taking a loss on this deal. ..


The truth remains to be seen. But, it is interesting to me to read this so soon after my comment above.

Article

After this month, presumably we will no longer need "rumors". We'll have some facts on both Nvidia and AMD new-era parts. Nvidia's test reports are officially due out on May 17 -- just 3 days smile
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/14/16 03:38 PM

if true, wont mean diddly, but I doubt it's true.

2 Sources reported it, 1 said they "Assumed and were sitting on the story until someone else came out with it".

OK, so where's the proof? lol.

Contracts would have surely been signed by now, with pre production units about to be revealed in less than a few months.

Then again, w/ nVidia's ARM Division in the toilet.... I wouldnt be surprised if it were true.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/16/16 06:24 PM

Quote:
We are beginning to sense AMD’s cunning plan
Marketing might not be as daft as we thought

AMD’s Polaris strategy is becoming a bit clearer and even if we thought that the fabless chipmaker might have dropped the ball a bit, it's cunning plan is starting to make sense.

..AMD could take roughly 7 per cent of Nvidia’s sales in a single quarter, by releasing a graphics card in a price segment that Nvidia had nothing.

Now Nvidia is going to be focusing on the high-end first and will not release anything for the performance for the mid-range for ages. But AMD will have its Polaris there and ready .. about six months ahead of Nvidia ..

Then when AMD releases its flagship graphics card based on the HBM2 powered Vega 10 GPU, .. it will arrive with a spec which is better than the GTX 1080 and is meant to go toe-to-toe with a possible GTX 1080 Ti or Titan X successor.

Good for AMD but means that prices will be higher because AMD does not have to undercut Nvidia.


Just another rumor article that looks on the "bright side". Time and financial reports will tell. smile

Article

Nvidia's official 1080/1070 test reports are due tomorrow.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/16/16 08:03 PM

AMD's Low/Mid Tier Polaris Cards can Run 1080p w/o extra Power Connectors :-O
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/17/16 01:13 PM

I wonder how well nVidia locking out 3/4 way SLi is gonna go over with the community, lol.
(Can unlock w/ a Key from nVidia, but they will not support it in drivers)

3 reviews read, same underlying tone, NV is shooting the industry standards the finger and developing their own proprietary tech.

Did they inherit 3Dfx's decision making stupidity?

- Baseline support for Asyncronous Shaders / DX12, But they Developed their own GameWorks/nVidia Version (Dynamic Load Balancing)
- Baseline support for DX12 EMA, While they continue to try and push SLi, even after neutering it.
- No Support for Adaptive Sync at all (Despite Hardware Capable of Supporting it)

How Many Studios still use Game Works?, lol.

The Limit of 2 Cards is a Band Aid slapped on the cards because the SLi Bridge doesnt have the bandwidth to send the 4K/90Hz images fast enough.
All this R&D to Make Beefy GPU's they completely forgot about the other parts of the technology... lol,
AMD doesn't have this problem as they use xDMA.

My judgement is based on business and development decisions, as previously posted about (Large Die Chips, etc, and now lack of Industry Standard while cramming their Proprietary Features down consumers throats.)
Which is What eventually Doomed 3DFx. Who had unmatched 3d Performance in the 90s and Alienated themselves from OEMs while Cramming Proprietary technologies into their GPUs, and eventually being spanked by both ATi and nVidia.

Anyone who witnessed the downfall of 3DFx Interactive can match the same dumb decisions being made by nVidia to them.

A. Shifting to "Pure Performance Only" (Voodoo 4/5 was supposed to be pure performance and was beat by GF256), Couldnt Compete with Entry Level Price Points.
B. Shifting Production to Retail Performance Cards only, Removing OEMs, Forcing OEMs to Buy from nVidia, 3DFx Loses Income from OEMs which was previously their major source of revenue.
(nVidia Shifted to High Performance GPUs and Alienated Consoles, which make of up 75% of the Market, and that 75% now belongs to AMD)
C. Started Ignoring Industry Standard and MS DirectX (When they announced they'd only support OpenGL or Glide), nVidia is doing the same w/ Basic Implementation of DX12 Features, while the more advanced features are part of the GameWorks API

Lets see what happens when they convert a console port to a GameWorks DX12 Title... and hopefully it doesnt completely botch like other titles the last 2 years have.


Im not gonna wave I told ya so's in anyone's face,
But I can almost guarantee a few months after the 1080s are out, everyone that spent $600+ on Reference or AIB Partner Cards are gonna go donkey kong when they finally have enough laser cut GP100 Chips to sell 1080Ti's for $700 - $1000 w/ nearly 80% more performance over the GP104 Chips.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/17/16 06:50 PM

I started with 3DFx -- I remember them as $300 cards all those years ago -- with less than 1/100th the performance (or is it 1/1000th) of modern cards. Have even saved my original cards. I was saddened to see 3DFx throw it away apparently due to arrogance and, evidently, a lack of business acumen and/or common sense.

I've read some of the Nvidia test reports -- similar to the leaked results published recently. Now, I await AMD's first 14nm product reports.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/18/16 10:38 AM

Quote:
Figures from Mercury Research show that AMD appears to be clawing back some market share..

Of course market share does not mean profits..

Mercury Research’s latest GPU market report, show that in the first quarter overall graphics unit volumes declined by 10.2 per cent in comparison to last year. However AMD gained discrete GPU market share..

The findings confirm what Wells Fargo analyst David Wong said earlier this week..

This suggests that what Nvidia has lost has been gained by AMD...


Article
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/23/16 03:35 PM

Quote:
AMD has revealed that Zen will have double the performance of the FX 8350 and will trade blows with Intel’s eight core i7 5960X Extreme Edition. ..

AMD’s Zen 8 core enthusiast class Summit Ridge CPUs are reportedly slated for an October launch on the company’s brand new AM4 socket based desktop platform. These next generation FX CPUs will include eight and six core configurations. Which will deliver double the performance core for core of AMD’s current desktop FX 8300 and 6300 series lineup...


Both AMD's Vega GPU (competes with Nvidia 1080) and Zen GPU (competes with Intel 8 core) are now both rumored for October. I await October -- but, in the mean time, lets have a great summer of golf, biking, swimming, or whatever smile

Article
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/23/16 05:32 PM

'Scuse me while I express my self..


"WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"

ok Im back,.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/23/16 05:40 PM

Originally Posted By: Allen
I started with 3DFx -- I remember them as $300 cards all those years ago -- with less than 1/100th the performance (or is it 1/1000th) of modern cards. Have even saved my original cards. I was saddened to see 3DFx throw it away apparently due to arrogance and, evidently, a lack of business acumen and/or common sense.

I've read some of the Nvidia test reports -- similar to the leaked results published recently. Now, I await AMD's first 14nm product reports.


I still have my AMD K6-II / Voodoo 3 Rig in the closet for running early jane's sims, problem is, I got no controllers that work on Gameport anymore.. haha.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/23/16 05:45 PM

Originally Posted By: Allen
Quote:
AMD has revealed that Zen will have double the performance of the FX 8350 and will trade blows with Intel’s eight core i7 5960X Extreme Edition. ..

AMD’s Zen 8 core enthusiast class Summit Ridge CPUs are reportedly slated for an October launch on the company’s brand new AM4 socket based desktop platform. These next generation FX CPUs will include eight and six core configurations. Which will deliver double the performance core for core of AMD’s current desktop FX 8300 and 6300 series lineup...


Both AMD's Vega GPU (competes with Nvidia 1080) and Zen GPU (competes with Intel 8 core) are now both rumored for October. I await October -- but, in the mean time, lets have a great summer of golf, biking, swimming, or whatever smile

Article


Can ya Fix the URL? lol


EDIT: Nevermind, Found it.

http://wccftech.com/amd-zen-cpu-performance-double-fx-8350/
Posted By: kludger

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/23/16 07:39 PM

Man, October is a long way away, was hoping to see AMD Vega reviews and comparisons to Nvidia 1080 the next few weeks.

Doesn't bode well for AMD then, usually Nvidia releases Ti versions in the fall so 1080Ti will probably be out around that time, not to mention the various vendor gamer overclock versions...
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/23/16 08:03 PM

1080Ti's will be $1500-2000+ as a Fully Functional GP100 Card is Going for $5000 MSRP and Selling for $6500 Due to Availability,

I honestly don't see us getting them this year, the yields for the GP100 Chips alone are severely low,
I don't think they are gonna be able to Bin enough defective Laser Cut GP100 Chips quick enough to sell 1080Ti cards this year.
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/23/16 10:23 PM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
Im not gonna wave I told ya so's in anyone's face,
But I can almost guarantee a few months after the 1080s are out, everyone that spent $600+ on Reference or AIB Partner Cards are gonna go donkey kong when they finally have enough laser cut GP100 Chips to sell 1080Ti's for $700 - $1000 w/ nearly 80% more performance over the GP104 Chips.



Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
I honestly don't see us getting them this year, the yields for the GP100 Chips alone are severely low,
I don't think they are gonna be able to Bin enough defective Laser Cut GP100 Chips quick enough to sell 1080Ti cards this year.



You seem to be hedging your bets for a guaranteed win there! thumbsup
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/23/16 10:45 PM

A few months after the 1080s are out can be 30-120 days.

That being said, the 1080s are Paper Launched, they are not for sale yet.

And reports of GP100 Yields have gotten worse since then.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/23/16 11:56 PM

http://videocardz.com/60253/amd-radeon-r9-480-3dmark11-benchmarks

So, A Single "490X" would get 14,461

The Lowest 7970 XFire Score I Could Find was 17,950, w/ GPUs and RAM Overclocked to 1.26GHz / 7.14GHz
Posted By: kludger

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/24/16 01:28 AM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
1080Ti's will be $1500-2000+ as a Fully Functional GP100 Card is Going for $5000 MSRP and Selling for $6500 Due to Availability,

I honestly don't see us getting them this year, the yields for the GP100 Chips alone are severely low,
I don't think they are gonna be able to Bin enough defective Laser Cut GP100 Chips quick enough to sell 1080Ti cards this year.


Why would the prices of the 1080Ti be higher than Titan X which has been at ~$1000 for the last 12 months?
https://pcpartpicker.com/trends/price/video-card/#gpu.chipset.geforce-gtx-980-ti
https://pcpartpicker.com/trends/price/video-card/#gpu.chipset.geforce-gtx-titan-x


From the info posted so far I would expect the 1080 at $699 (same price as 980Ti has been), 1070 at $379 (same as 970), 1080Ti at $1000 (same as Titan X has been), depending on whether AMD has anything to compete, and from that October launch for Vega, it looks like they won't have anything to compete for a while sadly (assuming they don't get delayed).

Color me disappointed, AMD seems to have DX12 figured out so was hoping that was the boost they needed to get back in the game.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/24/16 02:55 AM

Originally Posted By: kludger
Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
1080Ti's will be $1500-2000+ as a Fully Functional GP100 Card is Going for $5000 MSRP and Selling for $6500 Due to Availability,

I honestly don't see us getting them this year, the yields for the GP100 Chips alone are severely low,
I don't think they are gonna be able to Bin enough defective Laser Cut GP100 Chips quick enough to sell 1080Ti cards this year.


Why would the prices of the 1080Ti be higher than Titan X which has been at ~$1000 for the last 12 months?
https://pcpartpicker.com/trends/price/video-card/#gpu.chipset.geforce-gtx-980-ti
https://pcpartpicker.com/trends/price/video-card/#gpu.chipset.geforce-gtx-titan-x


From the info posted so far I would expect the 1080 at $699 (same price as 980Ti has been), 1070 at $379 (same as 970), 1080Ti at $1000 (same as Titan X has been), depending on whether AMD has anything to compete, and from that October launch for Vega, it looks like they won't have anything to compete for a while sadly (assuming they don't get delayed).

Color me disappointed, AMD seems to have DX12 figured out so was hoping that was the boost they needed to get back in the game.



Because it's New and Will outperform the Titan X.

Prices were already Announced for GP104 (GTX1080 and GTX1070)
$699 - GTX1080 Founders Edition (Added VRM Phases and Extra Cooling)
$599 - GTX1080 STOCK / REFERENCE (Lack Of VRM Phases and Extra Cooling)
$449 - GTX1070 Founders Edition (Added VRM Phases and Extra Cooling)
$379 - GTX1080 STOCK / REFERENCE (Lack Of VRM Phases and Extra Cooling)

1080 Ti will be a Laser Cut Version of GP100, which had a MSRP of $5,000

With The Consumer GP100 you Get 16GB of Unified HBM2 Memory, and Proprietary Features a Gamer Wont Use (nVLINK for Example.), and a GPU that wasnt 100% Functional and was laser Cut to be on a Consumer Board.

Considering None of the "Pro" Features will be cut going from Pro to Consumer, the price wont be cut to much from that $5000 Tag Either.
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/24/16 05:51 AM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla

Considering None of the "Pro" Features will be cut going from Pro to Consumer, the price wont be cut to much from that $5000 Tag Either.


I don't believe that for one second. I think your slightly biased view of AMD is getting the better of you here. Amidst all the previous hype for Polaris I dont recall you or anyone else expecting Pascal to have the performance level we're seeing from first wave of cards.

Ultimately these Polaris cards are looking quite disappointing. Bang for buck they look to have a nice mid-range but obviously aren't looking to compete with Nvidias top tier. When Vega drops, Nvidia are just going to dwarf the performance again with the 1080ti and I think this will only be magnified if AMD bring forward their release dates.......if anything it will alow Nvidia to sandbag .....its not looking any different to this generation at the moment IMO with AMD challenging the wallet but top level performance being owned by Nvidia.

I went down the route of 7970 and then 390 last Gen, only to realise the 970 was the better bet for DK2 and the games I played so ended up with that. Until AMD start challenging Nvidia are going to keep their prices artificially high. The Fury X just wasn't cutting the mustard for me when the price point was so close to the 980ti hence why Nvidia had no pressure to drop the price and came out on top in most games performance-wise.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/24/16 10:22 AM

Today's rumor is that Polaris will be "announced" in early June and "may" become available in July. By July, we'll have new rumors regarding Vega and Nvidia future plans. Probably, it will be late in the year before "its all sorted out" based on actual data -- and we see how the AMD 14nm node has done versus Intel's and Nvidia's similar nodes.

Short term, I'm interested to see if a "July release" low cost Polaris 470 card will be appropriate for my wife's computer.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/24/16 02:46 PM

For Nvidia fans and "best card regardless of who makes it" fans a very speculative article on what the GTX 1080 Ti will be -- probably a GP102 core as a basis.

The foregoing short phrases are the parts presented as "fact":


Quote:
...the GP102 core [exists] ..

..Our usual sources have been very tight lipped about the this particular die but they did state that it would be “exactly half way” between the GP104 and the GP100. ...


They indicate Nvidia yields are currently low on advanced 16nm chips -- but they say that is normal considering their large size and at this point in their development.

Article
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/24/16 03:37 PM

All I need is:

- Crossfired 7970 Performance (doesnt have to be a perfect 200% scale either as Xfire isnt a perfect 100/100.)

-At least 3 DisplayPorts for my monitors, and 1 HDMI for Rift.
(Tho Id prolly keep my monitors on the system I have now for 3d graphics work etc.)

Everything else is a perk.
-150% More VRAM (3GB vs 8 GB)
-Lower Power Consumption
-Lower Heat Output
-Higher GPU Clocks
-GDDR5X / Higher Memory Clocks
-Same Performance Level with 140-170w Card vs 2x 250+w Cards
-The new GCN1.1+ Feature Set (xDMA for Xfire etc).


Also there was a 3DMark Entry, that has been deleted, showed the same AMD generic Adapter at 1750MHz GPU, and 2560MHz Memory (10.24GHz)..

Posted By: kludger

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/24/16 05:19 PM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla

Because it's New and Will outperform the Titan X.

Prices were already Announced for GP104 (GTX1080 and GTX1070)
$699 - GTX1080 Founders Edition (Added VRM Phases and Extra Cooling)
$599 - GTX1080 STOCK / REFERENCE (Lack Of VRM Phases and Extra Cooling)
$449 - GTX1070 Founders Edition (Added VRM Phases and Extra Cooling)
$379 - GTX1080 STOCK / REFERENCE (Lack Of VRM Phases and Extra Cooling)

1080 Ti will be a Laser Cut Version of GP100, which had a MSRP of $5,000

With The Consumer GP100 you Get 16GB of Unified HBM2 Memory, and Proprietary Features a Gamer Wont Use (nVLINK for Example.), and a GPU that wasnt 100% Functional and was laser Cut to be on a Consumer Board.

Considering None of the "Pro" Features will be cut going from Pro to Consumer, the price wont be cut to much from that $5000 Tag Either.


Your prices and assumptions are off because you assume the new gen cards will come in at a significant price increase because they perform better than the current gen card they are replacing, which has never been true, the new gen usually slots into the price point of the old card with possibly a minor price adjustment while the old card falls in price.

Also you were posting Nvidia "Founder" version prices which are pre-order early adopter prices and higher than the actual MSRP for the partner vendor overclocked and improved cooler versions which most of us enthusiasts buy anyhow, for the example the 1070 will have $449 for Founder version but MSRP of $379 for the partner versions with probably a lower street price even, which is not far off the $350 street price that the 970 has stayed at last 18months.

It's ok that you lean toward AMD, but it won't help to live in a fantasy world where you expect Nvidia to be dumb enough to shoot itself in the foot by pricing themselves out of the current market on the new gen, that won't happen.

AMD need to come out with good performing cards this gen that put pressure on Nvidia from a performance and price perspective, their experience with DX12 on XBox One is a big advantage toward the next gen performance, but it's disappointing that yet again Nvidia will have nothing to worry about until October at the earliest.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/24/16 05:47 PM

NV already stated founders edition cards will be availible for the life of the product,
its simply a marketing name to sell beefed up cards.

599 for referencee, 699 for FE. AIB Partners will be somewhere in between.

My GP100 Prices are accurate, the cost of 16nm Wafers vs how many fully functional or even 75% functional dies they get is the reason the cost is higher.

Id say the same thing about AMD, except they are wasting wafers on 610mm^2 Dies for GP100, and around est. 510mm^2 for "GP 102", which likely just a laser cut GP100 chip, thats being sold with defective parts disabled.

Their top Polaris Die is 232mm^2, so on any given wafer they are producing more than 4x the volume with higher yeilds due to wafer defects not hitting as many dies due to size of the dies.

Vega 10 will likely be about 350-400mm^2 at most.



As for nVidia not shooting themselves in the foot over pricing, erm, yeah, they havent been doing that?
Posted By: kludger

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/24/16 07:21 PM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla

As for nVidia not shooting themselves in the foot over pricing, erm, yeah, they havent been doing that?


Not sure what you mean by this? Can you explain?

Their recent earnings call showed a profitable quarter and improved over the prev year, especially in their gaming division... the price of Nvidia cards has stayed strong and in demand for the last 12-18 months due to no competition.

They certainly seem like they have the market/competition down pat and I wouldn't expect them to make a mistake with next gen, which is why I hope AMD doesn't continue to waffle and focus on the mid/cheap market and miss the advantage they seem to have on DX12 compared to Nvidia.

PS. not trying to sound like a Nvidia fanboy here (because I truly am a best bang for my buck neutral and would love nothing more than for AMD to come out with something that makes me go red again), but just not seeing where your pessimism about Nvidia for the Pascal gen is coming from.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/24/16 08:31 PM

not directed towards nVidia parsay.

I just dont like biased tech review sites that are telling everyone that AMD isnt going to compete with nVidia at the high end segment.

A. AMD doesnt really need a High End Part, A 480X will drive VR and 4K fine.
B. nVidia baically said entry level isnt important to them, neither are small dies.
C. Entry and Mid Level Revenue is more prophitable and has more volume, they are thinking backwards, not everyone is g9nna wanna spend 700+ on a GPU, 300 is the sweet spot.
D. nVidia takes their press events, shows off mind dazzling tech demos to dr8ve sales, and that tech is part of the GameWorksAPI which is all but abandoned by developers now.
E. AMD is already taking back marketshare just by owning the console market.
F. Vega10 Will still launch BEFORE nVidia with HBM2 etc
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/24/16 10:17 PM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
not directed towards nVidia parsay.

I just dont like biased tech review sites that are telling everyone that AMD isnt going to compete with nVidia at the high end segment.

A. AMD doesnt really need a High End Part, A 480X will drive VR and 4K fine.
B. nVidia baically said entry level isnt important to them, neither are small dies.
C. Entry and Mid Level Revenue is more prophitable and has more volume, they are thinking backwards, not everyone is g9nna wanna spend 700+ on a GPU, 300 is the sweet spot.
D. nVidia takes their press events, shows off mind dazzling tech demos to dr8ve sales, and that tech is part of the GameWorksAPI which is all but abandoned by developers now.
E. AMD is already taking back marketshare just by owning the console market.
F. Vega10 Will still launch BEFORE nVidia wit


But not a single one of the points A-F above have any relevance to AMD competing at the high end whatsoever.......if you go by your points alone then AMD aren't competing - you're picking out profitability, budget, market share and release dates as a counter argument! What are your points in retort to high-end competition because that's what you're saying you don't agree with in your opening sentence.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/25/16 03:34 AM

Tou'che.
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/25/16 06:01 AM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
Tou'che.


No, I'm just wondering what your real beef is after providing a list of informative and truthful bullets........however none of them are related to the reason you're giving about what drives your AMD biased posts.

What's going to break the mould in this next generation of cards other than pure speculation? I haven't seen anything different yet than a carbon copy of the Fury X versus 980Ti situation whereby AMD have a very good card but it's pipped to the post by the Nvidia equivalent in almost every department.....therefore with similar prices the Fury X becomes a very hard sell.

The 1080 is undoubtedly a very powerful card and it looks like AMD aren't trying to challlenge that.......so why would anyone believe that AMD are suddenly going to come out with something later in the year that blows performance out of the pond when we all know Nvidia also will have a card ready for release in future which will push the current bar even higher?

It seems a monumental task for AMD.....I'm also surprised they haven't released more information about Polaris 10 because with even though they're not competing with the 1080, that release on Friday will undoubtedly sway many other people to opt for the 1070 when that becomes available and that is a card they can challenge.

The real issue for me who doesn't care about a particular brand name when buying a GPU is that Nvidia have shown their hand and the benchmarks and reviews are backing up the performance. AMD on the flip side are talking more and more about efficiency but this is still side-stepping the performance element.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/25/16 11:16 AM

Quote:
Sony forecasts 60 million PS4 by April 2017

...some analysts believe that PlayStation 4 has a big chance of selling over 100 million units before the end of the lifecycle...


Notable since PS4 uses AMD CPU/GPU (as does XBox).

For the longest time, most games were developed on Intel/Nvidia hardware with the help of Nvidia engineers -- giving Intel/Nvidia an advantage over AMD because unique features of Intel/Nvidia were used and unique features of AMD were ignored.

I remember an interview with Nvidia engineers who admitted games were deliberately coded to give Nvidia "an FPS edge" -- because of this, Nvidia did not have to update their GPU architecture as often as AMD had to to compete, they said. I imagine Nvidia is still involved in many games.

Moreover, games developed on Intel/Nvidia hardware were debugged as they were written, while AMD hardware often was not (so some initial releases gave AMD problems).

It has been predicted things will begin to "go in AMD's favor" now that most gaming console hardware will be AMD hardware. That is, games, as written, will be optimized for AMD. However, games may accidentally ship with unintended performance issues for Intel/Nvidia since they will get less optimization and less testing on that hardware. Of course, those issues will be fixed as they arise.

We'll see how things actually turn out.

This is something that probably has been mentioned before in this long "AMD thread".

Article
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/25/16 02:43 PM

Originally Posted By: Paradaz
Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
Tou'che.


No, I'm just wondering what your real beef is after providing a list of informative and truthful bullets........however none of them are related to the reason you're giving about what drives your AMD biased posts.

What's going to break the mould in this next generation of cards other than pure speculation? I haven't seen anything different yet than a carbon copy of the Fury X versus 980Ti situation whereby AMD have a very good card but it's pipped to the post by the Nvidia equivalent in almost every department.....therefore with similar prices the Fury X becomes a very hard sell.

The 1080 is undoubtedly a very powerful card and it looks like AMD aren't trying to challlenge that.......so why would anyone believe that AMD are suddenly going to come out with something later in the year that blows performance out of the pond when we all know Nvidia also will have a card ready for release in future which will push the current bar even higher?

It seems a monumental task for AMD.....I'm also surprised they haven't released more information about Polaris 10 because with even though they're not competing with the 1080, that release on Friday will undoubtedly sway many other people to opt for the 1070 when that becomes available and that is a card they can challenge.

The real issue for me who doesn't care about a particular brand name when buying a GPU is that Nvidia have shown their hand and the benchmarks and reviews are backing up the performance. AMD on the flip side are talking more and more about efficiency but this is still side-stepping the performance element.


I plead as being blinded by ambition.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/25/16 07:54 PM

Those Leaked Polaris 10 Benchmarks might actually be R9-470x and R9-470, not the 480 Line.

Regardless, Tomorrow Starts the 3 day g33kfest.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/30/16 12:40 AM

Quote:
AMD Radeon RX 480 Graphics Card Running Doom 1440p Demo Spotted – Shown Off At Polaris Tech Day, NDA Lifts 29th of June 2016


The article was based on a post from someone at the presentation. That, apparently accidental and "not permitted" post, was later taken down.

Apparently, June 29 may be the "big day" for AMD fans. As noted previously, the first cards are rumored to be "mid-priced" with excellent (not "the best") performance. They are rumored to be intended to be suitable for all practical purposes -- but not necessarily for SimHQ performance addicts or AMD fans who want "the best" smile
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/30/16 09:02 AM

Surely by keeping information back until that point they're going to lose a lot of customers to the GTX 1070 who may be sat on the fence right now!
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/30/16 11:22 AM

Quote:
Surely by keeping information back until that point...



Agree that AMD might do better to let people know what they've got coming. However, it would be a "paper launch" for sure -- some folks don't like that.

On the other hand, an article today suggests (to me) Nvidia rushed a few cards out the door to get publicity -- but, they were not ready for a full launch either.

Quote:
Geforce GTX 1080 supplies may be scarce until mid June


Apparently, only a few Nvidia 1080 actually made it to "sale".

Future shipments will be delayed, it is reported/rumored. The speculation implies (to me) roughly June 20 for initial availability -- if one did not get one of the first few released.

We'll see if AMD RX480 is on the market June 29 -- or if, it too is a "semi-paper" or "full-paper" launch.

Article
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/30/16 03:07 PM

AMD has been demo-ing Polaris for the last 7 months, lol, I sure hope they do more than a Paper Launch.

the June 29th Date is legit as well.
But ya know there's gonna be some meaty leaks smile

Like dumb sites using their press review cards to run benchmarks for an article to be published on the 29th, but forgetting the results are uploaded to a public database...
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/30/16 05:22 PM

There will be a live stream tomorrow I think.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/30/16 06:36 PM

also regarding that Doom Pic.

it's Running Doom at 144Hz at 1440P VSR.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/31/16 12:23 PM

Quote:
Multiple independent sources have confirmed that AMD has Zen x86 prototype chips ready for demonstration, and we might see them .. during the Computex 2016 press conference in Taiwan...
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/31/16 05:18 PM

Meanwhile Top O the Line Skylake CPU will be $1600, lol...
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/31/16 05:44 PM

Zen and Polaris Architectures will be Used in Microsoft's "Scorpio" Project.

Which Maybe more of a Small FormFactor Windows 10 Gaming Box than a Actual Xbox Console.

By time the Hardware Hit's shelves,nearly every XBO Title will have been patched / ported to UWA and Run on Windows/DX12.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/31/16 06:43 PM

AMD RX 480 presentation slide leaked before the official press conference (later today).

RX 480 only $249 -- if the "leak" is correct. But, excellent performance -- particularly with DX12 and implements "up to date" gaming features.

Quote:
...we are looking at a graphics card whose sole purpose is to deliver premium AAA and VR gaming at 1440P resolution. This graphics card will be available at a very nice price point around $249 US as the slide points out..


At $249, it would be worth a close look. We'll see if the "leak" is the real thing later today.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/31/16 07:13 PM

I'd Get 2 of them or Get a 480X

480X should easily beat a Hawaii GPU while using Less Power.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 05/31/16 11:14 PM

INSANELY LOW PRICE on RX 480 is now rumored in a "mainstream" publication. Price too low to repeat and retain credibility (assuming an AMD fan reporting on AMD has any credibility) smile

Official price is rumored to be released in a few hours -- and put rumors to rest -- if the rumor is true -- which rumor? -- I'm confused biggrin
Posted By: kludger

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/01/16 12:10 AM

Is the RX 480 competing with the 1080?

Hoping for some good news from those rumours.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/01/16 01:53 AM

No, according to rumors, not close. Based on rumors, one would have to CrossFire two RX 480 to get nearly one 1080.

The goal with the first AMD cards is full performance on 1440p (2K) monitors (like my 32 inch center monitor) -- at relatively low cost. However, the 1080 seems aimed at three 2K monitors (at least I would use it that way) -- maximum performance at maximum price.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/01/16 02:16 AM

Watching presentation now:

RX 480 $500 card performance (they say) in a $199 card -- the INSANE price rumored above was true.

Kept watching:

Now done with Polaris presentation. Of course, being an AMD presentation, its very "positive" about AMD vs Nvidia 1080. They indicate features in upcoming popular games that 1080 does not support among other things -- like Crossfired RX480 beats 1080 in Doom 4 at much less cost.

So, details will wait until June 29 unless there is an earlier leak.
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/01/16 02:30 AM

Originally Posted By: Allen
No, according to rumors, not close. Based on rumors, one would have to CrossFire two RX 480 to get nearly one 1080.

The goal with the first AMD cards is full performance on 1440p (2K) monitors (like my 32 inch center monitor) -- at relatively low cost. However, the 1080 seems aimed at three 2K monitors (at least I would use it that way) -- maximum performance at maximum price.


What's the definition of 'full performance'? I'm guessing workable frame rates or possibly a 60 fps target as it depends on the context - it doesn't sound like a 90fps frame rate will be possible at 1440p which is the target frame rate for VR.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/01/16 02:36 AM

Quote:
...What's the definition of 'full performance'?...


Those are AMD's words. We'll see. Ostensibly on June 29.

I added a few words to my above post. Regarding the ongoing presentation.

They really stressed that AMD wanted to take a new direction to attract 10's of millions of folks who could not afford $700 cards. With the first Polaris models, they wanted to produce maximum performance possible at the low price point most buyers were willing to pay -- under $300. So, they aimed everything they did at the under $300 market. They claim they hit it. Sounded good. We'll see on June 29.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/01/16 02:44 AM

My internet is out here for a few days, but I watched the firzt 10 or minutes while in wifi hot spot, will watch the rest tomorrow
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/01/16 11:21 AM

Summary based on last night's presentation and after reading some articles this morning (that had more info from the presentation):

The only "new news" (to me) last night was the confirmed Price -- and a confirmation by AMD management that the Polaris goal was "Price/Performance" leadership. Other items confirmed some of the rumors we've posted above.

AMD RX 480 pricing $199 (4GB) and $229 (8GB).

Performance rumors indicate approximately R9 390 performance (today, R9 390 roughly $300). Also supports latest new gaming features (that 28nm AMD and Nvidia products do not fully support).

Presentation last night showed Crossfired performance of $229 version slightly better than single NVidia 1080 (at least in the game shown). We'll see.

To be released June 29th.

So, as noted above, initial Polaris releases are aimed at "normal people" with limited gaming budgets who want to play everything full speed on a new 2K monitor -- not those with extra money who want the "very fastest regardless of cost" or want multi 2K or 4K monitors (Eyefinity) at very high speed smile
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/01/16 02:31 PM

the 52% utilization was a bit of an eyebrow though, wouldnt that mean a single GPU would perform about the same?
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/01/16 03:02 PM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
the 52% utilization was a bit of an eyebrow though, wouldnt that mean a single GPU would perform about the same?


I don't know.

The Crossfired RX 480 were performing a bit better than Nvidia 1080 -- where 2 RX 480 were operating at just over 50 percent capacity (so may have "had head room") -- but 1080 was nearly 100 percent and had "no more to give".

I speculated that may be due to the graphics API being used. The AMD Polaris design is rumored to outperform the 1080 design with some APIs that game companies use. For example, AMD was said to perform very well with the "cross platform" APIs -- for example Vulcan.

I'm assuming we'll know by the time we can actually buy a Polaris.


From AMD site -- regarding Vulcan:

Quote:
...From the consortium that brought you OpenGL, Vulkan is a new graphics API.. Vulkan gives devs total control over the performance, efficiency, and capabilities of Radeon™ GPUs and multi-core CPUs.

Compared to OpenGL, Vulkan substantially reduces “API overhead,” .. Vulkan also exposes GPU hardware features not ordinarily accessible through OpenGL.

Vulkan inherits these capabilities from AMD’s Mantle graphics API...

Though the Mantle API was tailored for AMD hardware, Mantle was also designed with just enough hardware abstraction to accommodate almost any modern graphics architecture [so it works for Nvidia too -- maybe not as well, though]...
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/01/16 03:08 PM

36 CUs = 2304 SPs, Running at 1266MHz/2000MHz, 5.5 TFLOPs.

Considering my Single Lightning is about 3.8 TFLOPs, and in 80% Efficient Xfire scenario, My cards put out about 6.5 Tflops.

Id Consider it, for the sheer fact that I can run 2 of them in the same power envelope as one of my lightnings.

A single card wont match a perfect set of 7970s in perfect Xfire, but it would be a significant single card performance increase while dropping power consumption.

I will wait and see if AMD puts out anything better with Polaris, but Likely gonna wait for Navi.

But seeing Im on a budget, it depends on budget at the time.
Posted By: kludger

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/02/16 02:17 AM

Originally Posted By: Allen

Presentation last night showed Crossfired performance of $229 version slightly better than single NVidia 1080 (at least in the game shown). We'll see.

To be released June 29th.

So, as noted above, initial Polaris releases are aimed at "normal people" with limited gaming budgets who want to play everything full speed on a new 2K monitor -- not those with extra money who want the "very fastest regardless of cost" or want multi 2K or 4K monitors (Eyefinity or SLI) at very high speed smile


Based on the above 2x480s crossfired performing like a 1080 probably means the 480 is about the same as a 980 which 2 SLI'ed equal the performance of a single 1080... so that's a good deal $229 for 980 like performance, that's sure to help the price of the 980 drop in the next few weeks along with the 1080/1070 coming out. We won't truly know until it's in the hands of reviewers and benchmarked.

BTW if you look at the Steam Hardware Survey the most popular GPU is the GTX 970 which has been in the $300-$350 range for 18months, so I think if AMD is going to ignore that segment of the market (which will now be ready to upgrade to a 1070 or AMD equivalent) they are passing up a lot of potential sales.

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

I'm glad to see them have a good bang for the buck card which the 480 appears to be but also would love something that competes with the 1070 or even 1080.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/02/16 02:57 AM

Quote:
...would love something that competes with the 1070 or even 1080.


Presumably, the Vega rumored to come this Fall (October 2016 but may delay to 2017 depending on rumor) will compete with 1080 or even the follow-on to 1080. Nonetheless, I believe Nvidia will do whatever it has to do to provide a faster card -- even if they can only make a few and sell at a loss (as highest FPS in their best card is what defines the brand). So, I expect Vega to perform measurably slower (but not visibly slower) than what Nvidia answers with. But, I imagine the AMD Vega will have other advantages -- like lower cost and better performance in some situations.

In 2018 (??) AMD has an all new design approach coming out called Navi (mentioned by SkateZilla). It's a way to put multiple chips together on one card -- and they act as one chip (not like Crossfire). That approach should be capable of humongous speeds in a very cost effective card (smaller individual chips are much cheaper to make) -- with single card performance advantages. We'll see.

Based on the rumors, I'm leaning towards Vega for myself (this Fall) and RX 480 (in July) for my wife (she does not need the power -- but she could use a new card -- and it will be fun to test). Then, when Navi arrives, I'd probably buy one and "retire" the Vega. Meantime, my two HD7970 still play my games visibly smoothly on "ultra" graphics settings (0 AA).


Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/02/16 12:33 PM

In the AMD presentation, Crosfired RX 480 out performed single Nvidia 1080 in Ashes of the Singularity (a DX12 title).

Some have questioned "how could that be"? Skatezilla and I gave some thoughts earlier in this thread. I thought it might be the graphics API.

Others are asking the same question in on-line articles -- because the AMD and Nvidia images looked slightly different. AMD has responded with the game settings for both cards. The settings seem identical. They used the AotS provided "in game" benchmark that the AotS developers themselves put in to compare systems -- which seems "on the up and up".

However, AotS uses "procedural" rendering. That is, it takes into account what it is running on and the game situation and then modifies what it shows you. So, in that sense, no two systems will have perfectly identical in-game images.

Fudzilla tries to explain it:

Quote:
...During AMD's product demonstration on stage at its Computex 2016 launch event, some noticeable differences could be distinguished between the texture quality of the Radeon RX 480 CrossFire demo and the single Geforce GTX 1080 demo. As many have noted, Ashes of the Singularity is a DirectX 12 strategy game that uses procedural generation for rendering textures, along with dynamic game character unit composition depending on the map situation. These rendering features will prevent any two running instances of the game from ever being identical..

Regardless, we are thankful that AMD's responses have shown to be transparent and cooperative so far during a few short email conversations on the matter...



Fudzilla Article

My Summary: In brief, partly it is the Graphics API. It has been rumored elsewhere that AMD does a good job using DX12 and Vulcan because unique hardware support has been built into the AMD design for a couple years now. However, its only now that these APIs are being used in games.
Posted By: Bib4Tuna

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/02/16 01:53 PM

My concern with the 1080/480 comparison was the % utilization.

Sure, you are getting similar FPS with the 480s in Crossfire, but their utilization was about half.

They tried to spin it as "you still have room for performance", but I would have had preferred a higher utilization, and much better FPS.

Unless both cards FPSs were capped, this actually does not sound that good to me. I am not a fan of XFire (prefer single powerful card), and that would had made me consider it seriously for the first time.

But I will definitively jump on a 480X, or a Vega based card when they come out.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/02/16 02:15 PM

I might get one RX480 to hold me over for a year, if not longer

w/ 3rd Party AIB Cooling overclock it a little, 8GB Variant for sure.

Right now between VR and fighting w/ my 7970s and having to use a 7930(7870XT) to have a working HDMI port.
(my Lightnings dont have an HDMI Port).

It gets in the way.

if i can get a cheap $250 stop gap w/ 1 HDMI 3 DPs and enough power to render more than decent FPS than 2 7970s in XFire.

in my experience only 2 Programs ever ran XFire at 1 100%/100% Utilization, that would be Furmark and at Times Battlefield 3.

outside of that games were always like 75/75, which means 150% 7970, which is pretty much where the RX480 Sits.

I just cant afford to wait till this winter for the Vega GPUs, I need something ASAP.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/02/16 02:18 PM

Originally Posted By: Allen
In the AMD presentation, Crosfired RX 480 out performed single Nvidia 1080 in Ashes of the Singularity (a DX12 title).

Some have questioned "how could that be"? Skatezilla and I gave some thoughts earlier in this thread. I thought it might be the graphics API.

Others are asking the same question in on-line articles -- because the AMD and Nvidia images looked slightly different. AMD has responded with the game settings for both cards. The settings seem identical. They used the AotS provided "in game" benchmark that the AotS developers themselves put in to compare systems -- which seems "on the up and up".

However, AotS uses "procedural" rendering. That is, it takes into account what it is running on and the game situation and then modifies what it shows you. So, in that sense, no two systems will have perfectly identical in-game images.

Fudzilla tries to explain it:

Quote:
...During AMD's product demonstration on stage at its Computex 2016 launch event, some noticeable differences could be distinguished between the texture quality of the Radeon RX 480 CrossFire demo and the single Geforce GTX 1080 demo. As many have noted, Ashes of the Singularity is a DirectX 12 strategy game that uses procedural generation for rendering textures, along with dynamic game character unit composition depending on the map situation. These rendering features will prevent any two running instances of the game from ever being identical..

Regardless, we are thankful that AMD's responses have shown to be transparent and cooperative so far during a few short email conversations on the matter...



Fudzilla Article

My Summary: In brief, partly it is the Graphics API. It has been rumored elsewhere that AMD does a good job using DX12 and Vulcan because unique hardware support has been built into the AMD design for a couple years now. However, its only now that these APIs are being used in games.


AS I Said, the last 10 seconds of that demo, the nVidia side clearly had a more defined shadow on the ground and more brown paths than the ATI Side, but I also noted that I didnt know if that was because of how the AI had Damaged/Destroyed/Deformed the Terrain, etc.

Other than that obviously glaring difference, the 3d Object/Texture detail was the same, as well as the shader effects.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/02/16 02:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Allen
Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
the 52% utilization was a bit of an eyebrow though, wouldnt that mean a single GPU would perform about the same?


I don't know.

The Crossfired RX 480 were performing a bit better than Nvidia 1080 -- where 2 RX 480 were operating at just over 50 percent capacity (so may have "had head room") -- but 1080 was nearly 100 percent and had "no more to give".

I speculated that may be due to the graphics API being used. The AMD Polaris design is rumored to outperform the 1080 design with some APIs that game companies use. For example, AMD was said to perform very well with the "cross platform" APIs -- for example Vulcan.

I'm assuming we'll know by the time we can actually buy a Polaris.


From AMD site -- regarding Vulcan:

Quote:
...From the consortium that brought you OpenGL, Vulkan is a new graphics API.. Vulkan gives devs total control over the performance, efficiency, and capabilities of Radeon™ GPUs and multi-core CPUs.

Compared to OpenGL, Vulkan substantially reduces “API overhead,” .. Vulkan also exposes GPU hardware features not ordinarily accessible through OpenGL.

Vulkan inherits these capabilities from AMD’s Mantle graphics API...

Though the Mantle API was tailored for AMD hardware, Mantle was also designed with just enough hardware abstraction to accommodate almost any modern graphics architecture [so it works for Nvidia too -- maybe not as well, though]...


then again, now that you mention it, AMD has had a definitive Edge in DX12 w/ ASYNC.


A fun side fact,
DX7->11 was developed w/ Intel and nVidia's Assistance.
DX12/Vulkan was developed w/ Intel and AMD's Assistance.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/02/16 10:31 PM

Originally Posted By: Bib4Tuna
My concern ..

..I will definitively jump on a 480X, or a Vega based card when they come out.


I see it similarly.

I'd really like a 480X with roughly 2800 shaders (if they come with that many). An RX 480X like that would probably be a single card performing about as well as my CrossFired HD7970s. For a pricetag in the $300 range, it would be a "no brainer". Maybe Vega will be called RX 490X smile
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/02/16 11:52 PM

I wouldnt be surprised if there was a RX-480X above the RX-480 for $300ish w/ 40-44 Compute Units.

the RX-480 at $199 was a Strategic Launch to gain massive attention
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/03/16 01:14 PM

After finally watching the video, on something other than my phone. it was clear the nVidia Card was having terrain rendering issues which caused the brown paths and overdone shadows.

as for the 51% Utilization, that was running Single Packet mode, The higher packet modes were in the 89%+ Area.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/04/16 12:40 AM

AMD has "lead" by years on some important hardware things (example "Tessellation"). But, except for consoles that are AMD powered (and XBox and PS4 are now), developers developed for PC on Intel/Nvidia and ignored AMD benefits -- until Nvidia copied them.

Along those lines, Async Compute (used by DX12) was developed hand-in-hand with AMD corporation, and AMD hardware has supported it for a while now. Nvidia hasn't. Only the new Pascal 1080 and 1070 can make use of it. Thus, the info that follows:

Quote:
Async Compute became quite controversial when it turned out that NVIDIA’s Maxwell architecture did not receive any performance boosts to it due to lack of hardware support.. Ashes of the Singularity under DirectX 12..

[One of several AotS Developer Tweets] Async/AMD GPU intrinsics were key for hitting perf on consoles..

..As Pascal cards slowly flood the market, it is possible that more developers will go ahead and try to use Asynchronous Compute in their games while they were previously a bit reticent to use something that didn’t work well on NVIDIA cards...


Article
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/04/16 10:47 AM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
After finally watching the video, on something other than my phone. it was clear the nVidia Card was having terrain rendering issues which caused the brown paths and overdone shadows.

as for the 51% Utilization, that was running Single Packet mode, The higher packet modes were in the 89%+ Area.


That seems to have been confirmed in an article today.

The authors researched the situation. The issue was that Nvidia did NOT operate correctly. They could not be sure if it was Nvidia hardware or Nvidia DX12 drivers. But, they say "its what you would see" if you owned a 1080 today. Moreover, the tests were fair to both AMD and Nvidia.

Article
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/04/16 06:22 PM

Originally Posted By: Allen
AMD has "lead" by years on some important hardware things (example "Tessellation"). But, except for consoles that are AMD powered (and XBox and PS4 are now), developers developed for PC on Intel/Nvidia and ignored AMD benefits -- until Nvidia copied them.

Along those lines, Async Compute (used by DX12) was developed hand-in-hand with AMD corporation, and AMD hardware has supported it for a while now. Nvidia hasn't. Only the new Pascal 1080 and 1070 can make use of it. Thus, the info that follows:

Quote:
Async Compute became quite controversial when it turned out that NVIDIA’s Maxwell architecture did not receive any performance boosts to it due to lack of hardware support.. Ashes of the Singularity under DirectX 12..

[One of several AotS Developer Tweets] Async/AMD GPU intrinsics were key for hitting perf on consoles..

..As Pascal cards slowly flood the market, it is possible that more developers will go ahead and try to use Asynchronous Compute in their games while they were previously a bit reticent to use something that didn’t work well on NVIDIA cards...


Article


AMD Developed XFire before nVidia had SLi :-)
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/05/16 05:39 PM

Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/07/16 08:43 PM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
Originally Posted By: Allen
AMD has "lead" by years on some important hardware things (example "Tessellation"). But, except for consoles that are AMD powered (and XBox and PS4 are now), developers developed for PC on Intel/Nvidia and ignored AMD benefits -- until Nvidia copied them.

Along those lines, Async Compute (used by DX12) was developed hand-in-hand with AMD corporation, and AMD hardware has supported it for a while now. Nvidia hasn't. Only the new Pascal 1080 and 1070 can make use of it. Thus, the info that follows:

Quote:
Async Compute became quite controversial when it turned out that NVIDIA’s Maxwell architecture did not receive any performance boosts to it due to lack of hardware support.. Ashes of the Singularity under DirectX 12..

[One of several AotS Developer Tweets] Async/AMD GPU intrinsics were key for hitting perf on consoles..

..As Pascal cards slowly flood the market, it is possible that more developers will go ahead and try to use Asynchronous Compute in their games while they were previously a bit reticent to use something that didn’t work well on NVIDIA cards...


Article


AMD Developed XFire before nVidia had SLi :-)


Both of which got it after 3DFx had it 16 years ago. wink

Anyway, that Steam survey shows a lot--like nvidia is in over half the PCs, while AMD is only in 1/4 and Intel and the rest make up less than 1/4. So a game that doesn't work well on nvidia is slitting your throat. Obviously you want it to work on all 3, but Intel's are so slow that it's a losing proposition to try, so you have to optimize for both the others and that nets you over 3/4 of the systems.

Beyond that, when 1 out of 20 are using the 970, yet no more than 1.6% are using the top AMD, which is only R9 200 series, it looks crappy for AMD. Of that first page, 28 are nvidia, 9 are Intel, and 9 are AMD. AMD needs a real hit on their hands. There are two ways to do that--same performance for lower price than competition, or better performance at the same price. The 1070 seems to have clearly bested the Fury and 980 at their price point, and the 1080 is tops, but the below $400 market is still open until the others come in.

To me the most surprising stat is 40% Win10 64!




The Jedi Master
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/08/16 03:16 PM

Quote:
New platforms not until January

We have been expecting Intel and AMD to release their new generation CPU’s by the end of the year, but now it looks like we will not see them until January.

Digitimes claims that both Intel and AMD have delayed their launches until January 2017 at CES 2017 because the upstream supply chain still has serious inventory issues, and market demand has been pants.

Chipzilla’s Kaby Lake platform was originally scheduled to launch at the end of the third quarter and AMD's Zen architecture in the fourth...


Article

I have been avoiding any new AMD CPU or GPU purchases for quite some time now -- willing to wait "years" for the new stuff (because what I have plays everything I play at ultra). Another quarter-year has been added to the CPU wait.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/08/16 03:27 PM

Samples are already out, so I Guess they both want to get better yields before throwing them on the market.
Posted By: Remon

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/08/16 04:00 PM

Originally Posted By: Jedi Master


Both of which got it after 3DFx had it 16 years ago. wink

Anyway, that Steam survey shows a lot--like nvidia is in over half the PCs, while AMD is only in 1/4 and Intel and the rest make up less than 1/4. So a game that doesn't work well on nvidia is slitting your throat. Obviously you want it to work on all 3, but Intel's are so slow that it's a losing proposition to try, so you have to optimize for both the others and that nets you over 3/4 of the systems.

Beyond that, when 1 out of 20 are using the 970, yet no more than 1.6% are using the top AMD, which is only R9 200 series, it looks crappy for AMD. Of that first page, 28 are nvidia, 9 are Intel, and 9 are AMD. AMD needs a real hit on their hands. There are two ways to do that--same performance for lower price than competition, or better performance at the same price. The 1070 seems to have clearly bested the Fury and 980 at their price point, and the 1080 is tops, but the below $400 market is still open until the others come in.

To me the most surprising stat is 40% Win10 64!




The Jedi Master


Eh, it's not like the market can't reverse. It's happened before.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/08/16 04:08 PM

Marketshare is already shifting as a result of all Consoles being AMD,

Developers are now developing on AMD, once the results trickle down to PC Ports of the Consoles, people will start buying AMD Cards.

not to mention the $200 Cards in a few weeks going on the market..
Posted By: kludger

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/08/16 05:00 PM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
Marketshare is already shifting as a result of all Consoles being AMD,

Developers are now developing on AMD, once the results trickle down to PC Ports of the Consoles, people will start buying AMD Cards.

not to mention the $200 Cards in a few weeks going on the market..


You're still looking at it with rose colored glasses if you think AMD is going to win the PC market with mid and low level cards.

The Steam survey charts don't lie, there's a lot of demand for the mid-high level (GTX970/1070), and as far as the low-mid market, the majority of the people who won't pay $300 for a card go console anyway...

Sad to see a company that once kicked Nvidia's butt with some of my favorite GPUs I've owned (ATI Radeon 9700Pro, ATI 5870), now concedes that mid-high market to Nvidia and just focuses on low-mid level cards that compete mainly with with onboard Intel video and tablet gaming.

That may keep money coming in but it's not going to win them the PC GPU market. I still have hope that they split the GPU part of the company out to their own company so they can compete 1:1 with Nvidia instead of being hamstrung by being tied to the CPU part of the company which is fighting a losing battle with Intel and sapping some of the R&D money and resources I'm sure.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/08/16 05:13 PM

Quote:
...concedes that mid-high market to Nvidia...


Rumor is that the competitive/high-end AMD Vega 10 is set for fall/winter.

Usually, card companies start with the "high end" and then sell the "cut down" models -- often using the working-parts of defective high-end chips.

AMD is going the other direction with a long term plan in mind. Part one is to make the best possible "small" chips.

The game-changer AMD part is Navi in 2018. It goes the opposite way. It puts "smaller chips" (like the Polaris 10 or Vega 10) together on a single card -- ACTING LIKE ONE CHIP (no Crossfire). That way, they can make an "off the charts" card unlike any before -- but, it will be made of small "cost effective" parts.

The idea with Navi is to "bury" Nvidia in the ultra-performance/price market. So, AMD has not "given up". Rather, as one writer put it, they have a "cunning" multi-year plan (Navi is only part of that plan).

Only time will tell if the rumored plan works. Also, since we know about the plan, so does Nvidia. I expect "no holds barred" competition.

Competition is good smile
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/08/16 08:28 PM

I agree. Just IMO they've been doing a half-assed job of it lately. Intel and nvidia are basically only occasionally looking over their shoulder while they do whatever they want. Imagine if the auto market was like this, you'd have the choice of buying a Ford or a Suzuki... Both are good products, but Ford is NEVER going to say "if we're not careful, we could lose market share to Suzuki."

Kyle on HardOCP put up an editorial recently where he talked about his insider info from AMD, and it jives with what I've seen them doing. While the details he relays may or may not be accurate, the overall picture he paints of their missteps is all too believable.




The Jedi Master
Posted By: kludger

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/08/16 09:43 PM

Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
I agree. Just IMO they've been doing a half-assed job of it lately. Intel and nvidia are basically only occasionally looking over their shoulder while they do whatever they want. Imagine if the auto market was like this, you'd have the choice of buying a Ford or a Suzuki... Both are good products, but Ford is NEVER going to say "if we're not careful, we could lose market share to Suzuki."

Kyle on HardOCP put up an editorial recently where he talked about his insider info from AMD, and it jives with what I've seen them doing. While the details he relays may or may not be accurate, the overall picture he paints of their missteps is all too believable.




The Jedi Master


Thanks for the heads-up on that HardOCP article, I enjoyed reading it, sounds like a lot of politics going on inside AMD right now, will be very interesting to see how things pan out, here's the link in case anyone else needed it:

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2016/05/27/from_ati_to_amd_back_journey_in_futility
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/08/16 10:28 PM

Thanks for the link. Their last paragraph "summarizes it" to me.

Quote:
...I can already hear the fanboys ripping into my thoughts here yelling about the HardOCP's NVIDIA and Intel bias. This editorial is based on what I hear throughout the industry from insiders that know what is going on inside of AMD. AMD is not in a good place and there is no shortage of current and recently departed employees that are eager to share their take on what's going on. Lisa Su has lost command of her ship, and Koduri is about to put it on the beach and hope he can make it to shore in his Radeon Technologies Group lifeboat.


This came across as a "breathless tirade" by a site/author that admits (in the article) it has been ostracized by AMD for its previous bias.

That does not mean they are guaranteed to be "stretching the truth". But, its not an ideal article to consider a source of "reliable rumor". By the way, I'm a fan -- but, I'm not "yelling". The "yelling" was done in the article (in my opinion, of course).
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/09/16 01:20 PM

A brief "financial page" article today says both AMD and Nvidia are "moving up" nearly equally as investments -- however:

Quote:
Analyst claims RX change was better than Pascal

MKM analyst Ian Ing claims that AMD’s recent gaming refresh was better done than Nvidia’s.

Writing in a research report, Ing said .. AMD’s transition to the RX series from the R9 this month is proving smoother than Nvidia’s switch to Pascal architecture from Maxwell..

Ing upped his price target on Advanced Micro Devices stock to 5 from 4, and on Nvidia stock to 52 from 43. On the stock market today, AMD stock rose 0.9 per cent to 4.51. Nvidia climbed 0.2 per cent to 46.33..

“We would grow concerned if the present [Nvidia 1000 series] availability pattern persists in the coming weeks, which would imply [Nvidia] supply issues/shortages,” Ing said.


Just an "investment analyst" perspective. On that note, Newegg has 12 different 1080 cards listed -- all "out of stock" today -- they've never had one "in stock" when I've checked. There seem to have been some that I missed -- as there are several owner reviews of 1080s. But, apparently the supply is "thin". Nvidia may have rushed a few cards to market for publicity ahead of AMD's Polaris 10 rumored-launch date. Other rumors, mentioned in previous posts, indicate Nvidia will have more stock sometime this month. We'll see how "bountiful" the AMD launch is -- in 3 or 4 weeks.

Article
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/09/16 02:51 PM

The article from the other day made me LOL, I dont take anything he says about AMD seriously at all.

The stock gap is crazy...

1080 shipping for consumers is delayed and slow, but review websites have a stack of 7 or 8 of them when they post to facebook. lol

And people assume the GP102 to fare any better?

Bottom line, the dies are huge and the yields are low...
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/09/16 02:56 PM

Its also funny how ppl bashed AMD over power consumption,

When the 1080s from AIB Partners are pushing 300w.
Posted By: kludger

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/09/16 09:53 PM

I think you may be over estimating the stock gap.

Plenty of people posting about having received their 1080 Founders Editions on other forums I frequent (Overclock.net, Reddit, Shacknews etc.) so I think those that pre-ordered FE are receiving theirs, sounds like it performs well but the fans aren't great.

I'm sure as soon as the vendor partner versions ship it will improve both the stock and fans.

Personally I'm looking forward to see the 1070 partner editions (especially Gigabyte G1 Gamer, MSI, EVGA FTW etc).

Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/09/16 10:11 PM

I believe 1080 pre-orders were/are being filled. I believe perhaps a couple thousand people have gotten a 1080. But, maybe it was only a few hundred "enthusiasts" -- I don't know.

I believe Nvidia will eventually ship in quantity. "Eventually" may be two weeks or may be longer.

I believe Nvidia will solve its fan issues. I believe Nvidia new generation will have faster FPS cards than AMD new generation (at least for a few months).

But, I'm not "put off" by the "rumored" AMD approach -- presented in previous posts. I think they are currently competing on "bang for buck" and are very likely to win that one by a serious margin -- using small, profitable chips.

I also am an optimistic Cleveland Browns fan (literally). (for those not in USA, that's an inside joke) smile
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/09/16 11:24 PM

Yes, but bang for buck is only great if there is also some horsepower on tap for us to play our games and sims.

A Radeon 290 or 750ti could be best value ever, but pretty pointless for what is rapidly moving towards 1440p resolutions as standard. Its the one point I fear for AMD. Being green and having low power is lovely.......but not at the expense of horsepower of framerates when VR is also upon us.

I'm not particularly keen on crossfire/SLI just because it comes in cheaper than a higher tier single card. The trade-off often isn't worth it. For me at the moment AMD just isn't providing what I need and doesn't look like it will do for at least another 12 months.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/09/16 11:47 PM

Quote:
...rapidly moving towards 1440p resolutions as standard...


1440P is "2K" gaming. As you note, 1440P is the new standard. Some older 28nm cards already do well with it.

But, folks on a budget moving from 1080P to 1440P and needing a new GPU may not want to spend a lot to get the performance. At least, that's what AMD believes.

According to AMD, the first AMD RX 480s ($199 and $229) are deliberately aimed at 1440P. I am considering one for my wife's 1440P monitor -- we'll see when all the test reports are public on June 29.

There was an article today about a leaked RX 480 performance figure. I did not report it because it mostly says what we've been posting. It indicates that the RX 480 is most of the way to "4K" -- at $229 or less.

Here is the "leaked" chart. One chart does not prove anything. But, it is encouraging. Note how this score goes most of the way towards 4K (2160P). I personally think its possible the $229 version will handle 4K at highest settings in most current games. The printed "graphics score" is most "telling". Not everyone will have a high end Intel CPU.

Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/10/16 12:04 AM

Originally Posted By: "Allen"
I personally think its possible the $229 version will handle 4K at highest settings in most current games.


I don't agree with you on that point but it really depends on what your definition of 'will handle' is.

A gpu may handle a game at 2k or 4k but if that means it will run at a framerate of 10fps then its still unplayable......or if a steady framerate of 30fps drops to 15-20fps when busy is equally bad.

Likewise there are many cards under the minimum spec for VR that will handle it......but as we're all aware its the high 90+framerate that is absolutely key. If handling is running at a minimum then it simply won't be enough for some people regardless of price or power-efficiency. Lets be honest, the 980ti is pretty much the minimum for VR, although a 970 can 'handle' it.

I do agree with you that the AMD cards will suit many people, for enthusiasts who want cutting edge or one step behind the curve I think AMD are not going to be there for a good while yet. It will certainly be interesting to see how the RX480 fares against the 1070 but I can personally see it being the 980ti v FuryX all over again and we know how that turned out.



Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/10/16 01:01 AM

Quote:
...A gpu may handle a game at 2k or 4k but if that means it will run at a framerate of 10fps then its still unplayable......or if a steady framerate of 30fps drops to 15-20fps when busy is equally bad...


Agree.

I feel a true framerate of 30+ with no drops into the teens is "visibly" smooth to the most human eyes (some folks have exceptional vision) -- movies were 24fps for decades -- TV was 30fps -- home movies were 15fps -- and virtually no one complained. I would claim virtually no one can really tell 90fps from 60fps in a "blind test". Most monitors in use have 60fps refresh -- so, above 60 is invisible on those monitors (even though one can "measure" that the card is attempting to put out 100 fps) -- yet, folks still play and enjoy the games at 60 or less.

Thus, yes, it is a matter of the definition.

I go by what I can actually "see" with unaided eyes -- not by "measurements" when deciding if a game is playable. However, some folks go by "measurements" and are unhappy if their GPU is not "measuring" above some number.

No way is wrong. We all do it for fun. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I simply think most will be happy with a smooth 30fps (and up) -- if they don't turn themselves off by "measuring" the FPS.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/10/16 03:40 AM

Most Puzzle RPG Style games can do fine at 30FPS.


Sports, Action/Fast Paced Games 60 FPS Minimum.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/10/16 03:42 AM

AMD See's the Price of Wafers Going Up, nVidia will continue to make monster GPU's that Cost $1000 without batting an eye.

The 1080 AIB Partner Cards are going to be $775-800+.
Posted By: kludger

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/10/16 04:19 AM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
AMD See's the Price of Wafers Going Up, nVidia will continue to make monster GPU's that Cost $1000 without batting an eye.

The 1080 AIB Partner Cards are going to be $775-800+.



Source for those prices? Everything I've read has the 1080 FE at $699 MSRP and the custom partner cards at $599 MSRP. Or is this still you guessing based on the current cost of the Titan X which it performs like?

Still not seeing where you get your pessimistic Pascal price outlooks from, even without AMD competition until fall your prices are way higher than whats been announced.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/10/16 09:13 AM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
Most Puzzle RPG Style games can do fine at 30FPS.


Sports, Action/Fast Paced Games 60 FPS Minimum.



I should clarify. I'm not arguing with anyone here. I've merely been stating the case that, according to rumors, AMD would probably make to justify their "business model" that says RX-480 is a good product for AMD to market.

I play action-RPG mostly. And, during "fights" even 20FPS minimum is okay.

My 14 year old Grandson specializes in "twitch" games -- sometimes on-line against other players. He's WAY faster than me. But, he's happy with his low cost computer running an FX6350 CPU and HD7850 GPU. The fastest card in the family (16 of us) is a 17 year old's R9-390 (RX 480 is supposed to be slightly faster) -- he's "super satisfied" with the 390.

So, that's my "first hand" basis. A small sample size.

The 480 should outperform XBox and PS4 -- most popular games on the PC derive from those consoles (grandkids have consoles too). Most people are happy with consoles -- PC gamers are a minority -- "Enthusiast" PC gamers are a small minority. So, the majority of console players switching to a gaming PC would probably be very happy with 480 at $199.

HOWEVER, I do think if I were a competitive "twitch gamer" fighting it out against other human gamers, I would want "every edge" -- 120FPS would be great smile

And, I realize many SimHQ members want the maximum. They may not be happy with RX480. Heck, I'm waiting for Vega myself smile
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/10/16 12:30 PM

Likewise...I've been waiting for the 'next-gen' since about 12 months ago. My GTX 970 as I've said before is at its limits for 1440p with everything maxed out in a lot of games.

With my Oculus due in the next couple of weeks, I've waited long enough now for the upgrade hence my order is already in for a GTX 1080 (Inno3D version, not FE lol) which should arrive next week. Like many people say, there is always something around the corner, but waiting to see what card will compete with the 1080 from AMD probably means another year of waiting.

If AMD release something that blows the 1080 out of the water which I think is probably unlikely then another upgrade is also an option but from what I'm seeing at the moment, and can only go from real reviews and benchmarks then I'm more than happy with the performance I'm going to have. Will the 1080ti be worthwhile moving to? Who knows, like Vega....it can only be speculation at this point in time.
Posted By: kludger

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/10/16 03:33 PM

Yeah same here, my GTX970 works fine for Ultra settings at 1080p, but I'm wanting something that will allow me to play most things with triple monitor 5760x1080 resolution at high or ultra settings, which I can only do in a few titles now, so I play most things at 1080p ultra.

I've been on that quest for the triple monitor holy grail since first having my horizons broadened to 5760x1080 with my ATI5870 and Eyefinity and iRacing all those years ago.
Posted By: kludger

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/10/16 04:14 PM

Originally Posted By: kludger
Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
AMD See's the Price of Wafers Going Up, nVidia will continue to make monster GPU's that Cost $1000 without batting an eye.

The 1080 AIB Partner Cards are going to be $775-800+.



Source for those prices? Everything I've read has the 1080 FE at $699 MSRP and the custom partner cards at $599 MSRP. Or is this still you guessing based on the current cost of the Titan X which it performs like?

Still not seeing where you get your pessimistic Pascal price outlooks from, even without AMD competition until fall your prices are way higher than whats been announced.


Just to follow up my own reply, EVGA has posted prices for their 1080s and they range between $599 to $679 for the top end FTW gamer version (which are all below the $699 Founder Edition:

http://www.evga.com/Products/ProductList.aspx?type=0&family=GeForce+10+Series+Family

I suspect patient people will be able to pick them up even cheaper from Amazon/NewEgg sales, rebates or promotions once stock catches up with demand like all the generations before.

Not very impressed by their initial prices for the 1070 $409-$449 which is higher than the $379 that had been expected. Maybe an opportunity for AMD if they have a 1070 competitor up their sleeve for fall or sooner.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/10/16 06:52 PM

Originally Posted By: kludger
Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
AMD See's the Price of Wafers Going Up, nVidia will continue to make monster GPU's that Cost $1000 without batting an eye.

The 1080 AIB Partner Cards are going to be $775-800+.



Source for those prices? Everything I've read has the 1080 FE at $699 MSRP and the custom partner cards at $599 MSRP. Or is this still you guessing based on the current cost of the Titan X which it performs like?

Still not seeing where you get your pessimistic Pascal price outlooks from, even without AMD competition until fall your prices are way higher than whats been announced.


In the defense of the AIB partners, the listings were deleted, But there were more than Simply a "GPU in a Box"

$749-799
But from what I saw:

-Premium Built 1080GTX GFX Card,
-Moisture Resist Coating to Protect PCB from Moisture/Liquid Drips
-2x 8 Pin PCI Connectors w/ LED Diagnostics
-14 (12+2) Phase VRM,
-3 Fan Cooler w/ Flat/Sq Heat Pipes,
-RGB Adjustable LEDs,
-Assorted Adapters (Molex to 6 Pin, DP to DVI/ etc)
-Custom HB SLi Bridge, w/ Adjustable RGB LEDs.
-Internal HDMI Ports on the Back of the Board Next to Power Connectors
-Breakout Box for front panel HDMI and USB3.0 Ports
-Back Slot Bracket for HDMI Ports
-Mouse Pad
-Wrist Protector
-Case Sticker
-4 Yr Warranty


Well worth the Price, if you can afford it.
Posted By: kludger

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/10/16 07:19 PM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla

In the defense of the AIB partners, the listings were deleted, But there were more than Simply a "GPU in a Box"

$749-799
But from what I saw:

-Premium Built 1080GTX GFX Card,
-Moisture Resist Coating to Protect PCB from Moisture/Liquid Drips
-2x 8 Pin PCI Connectors w/ LED Diagnostics
-14 (12+2) Phase VRM,
-3 Fan Cooler w/ Flat/Sq Heat Pipes,
-RGB Adjustable LEDs,
-Assorted Adapters (Molex to 6 Pin, DP to DVI/ etc)
-Custom HB SLi Bridge, w/ Adjustable RGB LEDs.
-Internal HDMI Ports on the Back of the Board Next to Power Connectors
-Breakout Box for front panel HDMI and USB3.0 Ports
-Back Slot Bracket for HDMI Ports
-Mouse Pad
-Wrist Protector
-Case Sticker
-4 Yr Warranty


Well worth the Price, if you can afford it.


Interesting, is that for water cooled systems or something?

What makes it worth the extra $100 ?
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/10/16 07:35 PM

The AIB 1080 cards in the UK are £540 through to £650 on average and are usually very close to the same amount in $$$.

I've only seen one card over £700 and that was a water-cooled version.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/10/16 08:03 PM

http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=5920#kf

Was one of the Ones Listed at $750, but the listing has since been deleted by Reseller (Amazon and New Egg).

Likely for the wrong price.

But Amazon Prices have gone up due to availability:
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=GTX1080

$800 to $1100
Posted By: kludger

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/10/16 09:38 PM

Nice card, Gigabyte is one of the good vendors (my Gigabyte GTX970 G1 is very overclockable), hopefully those models will be as well.

Ah yeah those prices are all Amazon Marketplace sellers. I had a co-worker who was one of those, he always pre-ordered a bunch of the new video cards, iphones, android phones and then on release sold them at huge markup on Amazon, eBay, Craigslist until stock caught up with demand.

Good way to make a bucks if you have the patience/nack for it.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/10/16 10:09 PM

For what comes w/ that Card, it's worth the price IMHO.

Few reviews have said the AIB Cards dont overclock much better than the 1st Party Founders Edition Cards, despite the Extra 8/6Pin Connector.

The all blame the new nVidia Voltage Control.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/10/16 11:28 PM

Article says 1070 is out -- buy it now before the stock disappears.

It confirms the lack of 1080 stock and high prices.

Article
Posted By: Remon

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/12/16 11:28 AM

Originally Posted By: Allen
Article says 1070 is out -- buy it now before the stock disappears.

It confirms the lack of 1080 stock and high prices.

Article


Or don't buy the crappy FE and wait for much better non reference cards.
Posted By: Bib4Tuna

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/12/16 06:09 PM

if legit, 480 is better than a 980 (all non overclocked).

Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/12/16 07:43 PM

Quote:
if legit, 480 is better than a 980 (all non overclocked).


If true, that's better than I expected -- and its the $199 4Gb model. I expected between R9-390 and R-390X. I note its at 1080. Maybe need the 8GB $229 model for 1440P??

Thanks for the chart.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/13/16 03:27 AM

O_o
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/13/16 10:18 AM

Quote:
Sony has official confirmed the rumors that it is building a 4K VR-friendly flavor of the Playstation.

According to the FT the new PlayStation 4 gaming console will be upgraded so that it can offer ultra-high definition 4K resolution and richer graphics...


4K and VR in a PS4 console. Just noting this because the PS4 uses AMD CPU and GPU hardware.

The upgunned PS4 will use an upgunned version of the AMD components. Thus, more 4K and VR games are likely to be developed for AMD hardware first (then ported to Intel/Nvidia). However, switching from Intel/Nvidia primary-development to AMD is not complete -- its ongoing -- its a process.
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/13/16 12:58 PM

Originally Posted By: Allen
Quote:
Sony has official confirmed the rumors that it is building a 4K VR-friendly flavor of the Playstation.

According to the FT the new PlayStation 4 gaming console will be upgraded so that it can offer ultra-high definition 4K resolution and richer graphics...


4K and VR in a PS4 console. Just noting this because the PS4 uses AMD CPU and GPU hardware.

The upgunned PS4 will use an upgunned version of the AMD components. Thus, more 4K and VR games are likely to be developed for AMD hardware first (then ported to Intel/Nvidia). However, switching from Intel/Nvidia primary-development to AMD is not complete -- its ongoing -- its a process.


To put more perspective into this, the leaked specs from several weeks ago already pointed this towards Polaris (RX480) and the same cpu with higher clock I believe.....whilst I can see this is a requirement for a higher frames-per-sec for VR I really don't think we're looking at 4K gaming at all - not for console titles anyway. You only need to look at how much horsepower is actually needed and how the 980Ti/Fury copes - there is no chance consoles will get 60fps in premium titles unless games are massively gimped, and given that Sony has already stipulated to developers what is/isn't allowed between 'normal' and 'Neo' games I think we have a fair idea of what's coming and that will be 1080p/60fps locked across the board with some extra bells and whistles. I'm sure there will be 4K content but probably video and not AAA games.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/13/16 02:18 PM

Originally Posted By: Allen
Quote:
if legit, 480 is better than a 980 (all non overclocked).


If true, that's better than I expected -- and its the $199 4Gb model. I expected between R9-390 and R-390X. I note its at 1080. Maybe need the 8GB $229 model for 1440P??

Thanks for the chart.


The DX11 Performance Maybe more than the "Overall" Performance Increase, due to the GPU Re-Structuring and adding of Updated Blocks etc.

Likely tweaked so DX11 Utilization is better.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/13/16 02:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Paradaz
Originally Posted By: Allen
Quote:
Sony has official confirmed the rumors that it is building a 4K VR-friendly flavor of the Playstation.

According to the FT the new PlayStation 4 gaming console will be upgraded so that it can offer ultra-high definition 4K resolution and richer graphics...


4K and VR in a PS4 console. Just noting this because the PS4 uses AMD CPU and GPU hardware.

The upgunned PS4 will use an upgunned version of the AMD components. Thus, more 4K and VR games are likely to be developed for AMD hardware first (then ported to Intel/Nvidia). However, switching from Intel/Nvidia primary-development to AMD is not complete -- its ongoing -- its a process.


To put more perspective into this, the leaked specs from several weeks ago already pointed this towards Polaris (RX480) and the same cpu with higher clock I believe.....whilst I can see this is a requirement for a higher frames-per-sec for VR I really don't think we're looking at 4K gaming at all - not for console titles anyway. You only need to look at how much horsepower is actually needed and how the 980Ti/Fury copes - there is no chance consoles will get 60fps in premium titles unless games are massively gimped, and given that Sony has already stipulated to developers what is/isn't allowed between 'normal' and 'Neo' games I think we have a fair idea of what's coming and that will be 1080p/60fps locked across the board with some extra bells and whistles. I'm sure there will be 4K content but probably video and not AAA games.


No one said 4K 60 Fps/ at Ultra Settings :-), Likley 4K 60 FPS w/ Reduced MSAA and Details et.c
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/13/16 02:42 PM

http://hexus.net/tech/news/graphics/9365...medium=facebook
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/13/16 03:31 PM

Xbox One S will have updated HDMI Output, Larger HDD etc, same APU.
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/13/16 04:36 PM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
No one said 4K 60 Fps/ at Ultra Settings :-), Likley 4K 60 FPS w/ Reduced MSAA and Details et.c


I didn't mention 4k at ultra settings either. I very much doubt a 980 on PC or an AMD equivalent with console optimisations has a hope of hitting 4K/60fps in any game regardless of the settings.

That's not a cue to show off a benchmark running minesweeper either! winkngrin
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/13/16 04:44 PM

Forza APEX Runs 60FPs at 4K on a R9-390 w/ Reduced Settings.

So a RX-480 w/ some other details lowered would prolly work.


Also, Xbox One S, 40% Smaller, Integrated PSU, 2 TB HDD,

Likely 14nmFinFET Version of the same Custom APU?
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/13/16 05:31 PM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
Forza APEX Runs 60FPs at 4K on a R9-390 w/ Reduced Settings.

So a RX-480 w/ some other details lowered would prolly work.


When settings aren't reduced, Forza Apex can only just about hold 60fps at 1440p with a 390 so that's a more accurate indication!

But it comes back to that definition again doesn't it...... 'will run' or 'handles'. Let's be honest, any game can run at 4K but it's the laws of diminishing returns when the settings have to be reduced to get there or the framerate is so low that it actually affects the gameplay. I'm sure that won't put Sony off from making all sorts of outlandish claims though and mustering the console crowd into an absolute frenzy.

I wonder how long it will be before people are claiming the Sony Neo/PS4.5 is the most powerful gaming system in the world. Ever. smile2

Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/13/16 05:45 PM

Forza w/ Reduced Settings for 4K on my PC (Using 1 7970) still looks significantly better than Forza at 1080p on XBOX One.

That being said, Not Every XBO Game is going to be 4K.

Forza 7 and FH3 maybe the first ones, as they run on DX12 and UWA.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/13/16 06:04 PM

Next Xbox will have greater than 6 FLOPS of GPU Power.

-8 CPU Cores,
-320 Gb/sec Memory
-6 TFLOPS of GPU Power

-4K / VR Ready (Likely DX12 Games w/ Oculus/Vive Compatibility)
-Fall Out 4 is Going VR

-Ships Next Year

-All XBO Games will work on XBO, XBOS, XBO=4K/VR Consoles (VR/4K Modes Require the 4K Console).

-UWA/XB Crossbuy, Buy a Game on Windows 10, Play on XBO and Visa Versa.

Sounds like they took an RX480 GPU and Put it in the Xbox One Hardware Set.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/13/16 06:10 PM

I just "report" the "rumors" -- usually with a "quote". If the rumor says "4K" that's on the person who wrote the article, not me.

We'll see -- when the items (GPU cards, Consoles, CPUs) are released. If the rumored specifications are wrong (overstated), it won't be the first time. Actually, I've lost count of how many rumors have been "overstatements" smile
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/13/16 06:16 PM

I got someone at E3, they are gonna pry for info,

but it does sound like they took the RX480 w/ GDDR5X

5Gbps * 2 * 256 / 8 = 320Gbps
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/13/16 06:17 PM

Also,

New Benchmark leaks show RX-480s Overclocked to 1400MHz having performance matching a Fury GFX Card.

AIB Partner Model Pix are starting to leak...

Im hearintg 1500MHz GPU and 9GHz Memory is EASY on 8 Pins.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/13/16 07:35 PM

AMD Announced RX-470 and RX-460
Posted By: kludger

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/13/16 08:03 PM

Meh... was watching that and hoping for an announcement of a 490 reading
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/13/16 08:05 PM

You and me both.. lol..
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/13/16 08:27 PM

Me too. I ass-u-me it won't be for "months". Hope I'm wrong again smile
Posted By: Remon

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/13/16 08:29 PM

Is AMD doing a presentation of their own later on E3?
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/13/16 09:31 PM

The Did Already I Think.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/13/16 10:20 PM

Today's announcements make it clear -- AMD is competing on price -- low low price for what you get (they say, not me say).

They say a $299 RX 400 series card is coming -- maybe that's the one some SimHQ folks would want.

RX-470 and RX-460 Announcements -- $299 Card Implied
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/14/16 09:39 AM

NEW AMD-Powered CONSOLES to be POWERFUL

Quote:

...A next generation gaming console with over four and a half times the performance of the company’s current XBOX One game console.

Microsoft Announced

"Project Scorpio. Coming Holiday 2017, Project Scorpio will be the most powerful console ever created, with 6 teraflops of GPU delivering a premier console gaming experience including true 4K gaming and high fidelity virtual reality. Project Scorpio will join the Xbox One family and coexist alongside Xbox One and Xbox One S and all of your Xbox One games and accessories are compatible."


Rumor/speculation is that Sony will try to match it -- the planned PS4 update will not match this. The console redesigns over the next year are apparently not minor.

Article

Another Article on the Same Subject

Among other things, that article compares an aspect of the console to the Nvidia 1080 -- eek

Quote:
...Microsoft is calling its next-generation console project an “uncompromising gaming machine” packed with 4K video output at 60fps, VR support, an 8-core AMD CPU and over 320GB/s of memory bandwidth. This puts total system bandwidth right on par with Nvidia’s Geforce GTX 1080...


4.5 times the performance is starting to be "big", if real. Games will become "more AMD technology oriented", I speculate -- if the AMD-powered console wars really takes off -- and if the war results in AMD consoles nearly as strong as a high end (not maxxed out) gaming PC.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/14/16 04:28 PM

Which means Console Ports will Literally be PC Versions Ported to Console or Vise Versa w/ Minimal Changes.

a Xbox 4K Game will simply enable 4K Textures / VR Modes if the Hardware ID is that of a Xbox One 4K etc.

Otherwise use gets a normal Xbox One title.

I wouldnt be surprised if APU + DDR3 is Swapped out for APU + HBM2
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/14/16 05:50 PM

Originally Posted By: Allen


Quote:
...Microsoft is calling its next-generation console project an “uncompromising gaming machine” packed with 4K video output at 60fps, VR support, an 8-core AMD CPU and over 320GB/s of memory bandwidth. This puts total system bandwidth right on par with Nvidia’s Geforce GTX 1080...


4.5 times the performance is starting to be "big", if real. Games will become "more AMD technology oriented", I speculate -- if the AMD-powered console wars really takes off -- and if the war results in AMD consoles nearly as strong as a high end (not maxxed out) gaming PC.


Oh come on Allen....you have been largely impartial up to this point. I can feel the excitement in your post and know you're an AMD fan but lets not get carried away, as 'powerful' as they like to market this its no different to the PS4/XO at launch.

Whilst some people were getting carried away by a mobile Jaguar CPU others knew what was coming and why it would struggle.

Bandwidth doesn't maketh the performance.....just ask yourself why Fury X is beaten in almost every game by a 980Ti. As for 'AMD consoles' (as you referred to them) being nearly as strong as a high-end PCs they're not going to be released until Q4 2017 when the competition will be Vega/Navi and the 1080TI and beyond. PCs obviously move on, consoles will always be years behind the curve at the point of launch.

Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/14/16 07:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Paradaz
...excitement..Bandwidth doesn't maketh the performance..... will always be years behind the curve at the point of launch.


Honestly, I don't get "excited" because very little comes out as good as the "rumors" -- the rumors are based on "sales pitches". We need "DATA".

Meantime, I generally agree with the rest. Although, to some extent, some (not all) games have run better on Nvidia because they were coded for Nvidia with Nvidia's help. Over the years, the few games coded for AMD with AMD's help have usually done better than might be expected on AMD. So, its not "all hardware" -- its partly how the games are coded and "who's involved". The direction of console game coding might impact PC game performance smile
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/14/16 08:06 PM

That's pretty much my point......it takes more than just a number, be that bandwidth, Tflops etc for a meaningful comparison and certainly to judge a product. You even caveat one of the quotes yourself by stating an aspect is equivalent to the GTX 1080 - what makes that particular aspect even relevant?

Regardless of how powerful a particular AMD product is, what are the developers going to use to develop their games on?.....one of the arguments would say that they would use the most powerful hardware available and that is where AMD are absolutely lacking. Publishers also won't be using a mid-range GPU to show off their products.
Posted By: kludger

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/15/16 02:56 AM

I'm skeptic about whether the XB1 project Scorpio and PSX will actually compete with gaming PCs with top end video cards...

The "nextgen" consoles were originally advertised as supposed to compete with the gaming PCs a couple of years ago too, but as someone who bought both a XB1 and PS4 and like them just fine, the graphics quality (AA/AF) and framerate never even matched what my i5-2500k and GTX560 gaming PC could do, nevermind the top end video cards of the time.

My guess is that these higher end consoles just allow 4K resolution and higher textures compared to the baseline consoles, but no better AA/AF or higher framerate than the current console standards which is usually 30FPS and some jaggies.

I'd be amazed if they ever compete with a top end gaming PC and GPU like a GTX 1080 or AMD 490, I'd love to be proven wrong, but their track record on delivering any "nextgen" console wow factor compared to a top end PC is not good, more like just barely meeting what a mid priced budget gaming PC can do.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/15/16 12:30 PM

Originally Posted By: kludger
I'm skeptic about whether the XB1 project Scorpio and PSX will actually compete with gaming PCs with top end video cards...


I agree. The top end PCs will always stay ahead. And, skepticism is warranted regarding most "sales pitches". But, I do think "the practical gap" between normal gaming PCs and Consoles will continue to shrink over the years.

This thread is "The Future And Current Status of AMD..."; so, it appropriately contains posts that speculate about things that impact the "future status" of AMD.

To me, the importance of major consoles all being made of the same basic AMD CPU/GPU/APU technology is that they are going to "set the tone" for which technology is "best supported" by the large game developers.

The above is certainly not an overwhelming advantage for AMD -- but, an "improved situation" that helps AMD survive and leads to sustained AMD competition for Intel/Nvidia. If the consoles were Intel/Nvidia, that ultimately might weaken or kill AMD -- leading to no competition for Intel/Nvidia -- leading to high prices and deliberately holding back improved technology.

Competition is good for all -- regardless of what CPU/GPU one purchases. But, for competition to exist, there has to be viable competitors. So, I "pull for" AMD to continue on smile
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/15/16 03:07 PM

The fact that gaming sites and news sites keep messing up what they are reporting is funny, they report the XBO S as a new console and people are whining about the 2 yr life of the console not buying a new one, etc.. News sites also reporting that XBO S will do 4K Gaming, Nope.

Xbox One, Original Launch Revision

Xbox One S, Revised Hardware, Same APU and GPU specs, Condensed Mainboard Layout, Removed Proprietary Kinect Port, Replaced w/ Windows10 USB Adapter and Driver, Updated HDMI Scalar Chip, Updated HDMI Specs to Support 4K @ 60Hz and HDR. Integrated PSU, Cut Power Consumption TDP, Likely SoC Upgraded to 14nm FinFET.

Now, the 4K Resolution is Simply for the UI on 4K HDTVs, Games will continue to run normal resolutions, upsaled to 4K using the Scalar, Games are NOT going to be Running 4K Natively. I Dont know why News and Gaming Sites are saying otherwise, and I dont know why console people believe it.

HDR is also a feature of the Upgraded HDMI Port, and Not a Game Feature to enable/disable, it will globally effect output of the HDMI Image.

The fact that users are griping over a new console, is funny, it's the same console, just revised to save money on manufacturing, same w/ Xbox 360 and Xbox 360S. But the users believe what they are fed via twitter and news articles.

They also assume the removal of the Kinect Port means kinect is dead, when in reality, the port is proprietary, and not needed and took up alot of space w/ circuit runs and the port itself. It was no longer needed as XBO Can use the USB Adapter and the Windows 10 Driver.


Project Scorpio is nothing more than a Mid-Range Settop PC for HDTVs, As in a Small Form factor PC designed to hook to a TV, Same for the Xbox One and Xbox One S,

it will Run the Windows 10 Kernel like all the Xbox Ones Do, It will use the same UI as Xbox One.

All games going forward are built on UWA and DX12, so they will work on Both XBO and Windows 10,

Making a More Powerful "Console" will allow the developers to include the 4K/VR Updates/DLC in their UWA Titles for both PC and Xbox One Platforms.


I wont be even looking at the XBO Scorpio, as I'll have VR On my PC and just use Windows 10 and Cross Buy which should be in Full Force deployment by Holiday 2017




What I do so Happening w/ Crossbuy, is Account Abuse,

ie:
All accounts on my Xbox One Share XBLive and Games, I Download Games on my Account, and they are playable by all Accounts, which my brother's account was a silver account on XB360, but it has Gold Permissions on XBO.

So, w/ Cross Buy, I can Purchase, Say Forza Horizon III, Download on both Xbox One and PC/Windows 10.

Sign Out of Xbox One, Let my brother Sign into his account,

I'll goto my PC and Sign into my account, and Go Online w/ Forza Horizon III using PC and Wheel, while he goes on FH3 using XBO and Controller.


We've already done this with XB Games for Gold (I'll download say HALO REACH onto XBO and XB360 w/ My gold Account), He'll sign into his Account on XBO, which is normally a Silver Account, Get on XBL Open a Room, I'll goto other room, get on Reach on the XB360 and Sign in as my Gold account, join his party, and room, then invite a bunch of my friends, it works w/ Every Games for Gold Game we've tried.
Posted By: kludger

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/15/16 03:17 PM

Originally Posted By: Allen

Competition is good for all -- regardless of what CPU/GPU one purchases. But, for competition to exist, there has to be viable competitors. So, I "pull for" AMD to continue on smile


Yeah I agree and pull for AMD as well, but I'm just a bit more picky on what I'm impressed about biggrin and I want them to actually deliver a kick ass GPU and console solution and not just an "ok" option that just allows higher res, but not really any improvement in framerate or AA/AF because they are trying to keep the price as low as possible.

I actually prefer playing multiplayer games on XB1/PS4 instead of PC as there's less hacking and less whiners, but sometimes when I have the same title on both platforms (BF4, Far Cry 4 etc which I buy first on console and then later cheap on PC) and I play it on PC at 60+ FPS, it's jarring to then go back to console and play the same game at 30 FPS and more jaggies...

My biggest wish for the enhanced "nextgen" consoles would be to have them finally be able to handle 60 FPS on all games like PC does, that would actually impress me and might make me upgrade to the enhanced console version.

I don't plan to upgrade to 4K TV until there is lots of actual content to watch, which right now doesn't exist, so to me seems like another gimmick to sell TVs and consoles, like 3D was and flopped.
Posted By: kludger

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/15/16 03:23 PM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
Making a More Powerful "Console" will allow the developers to include the 4K/VR Updates/DLC in their UWA Titles for both PC and Xbox One Platforms.

I wont be even looking at the XBO Scorpio, as I'll have VR On my PC and just use Windows 10 and Cross Buy which should be in Full Force deployment by Holiday 2017


Yeah I think VR is the true potential for these more powerful console versions... Microsoft barely mentioned VR, but if you watched Sony's presentation, VR was all over the place and there were a couple of things that actually looked potentially awesome (VR StarWars Battlefront and Resident Evil 7) especially with the $399 price of the PS VR headset.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/15/16 03:33 PM

Yeah, I dont see the PS4 Running a VR Title at a Decent or comparable Res or FPS as Vive/Rift.

Fallout 4 in VR will be nice, and I can use Kinect II to track my hands smile

Why develop and force people to use a proprietary piece of hardware, when you can simply include a driver and runtimes and allow users that have Vive/Rift already to plug those into the console and go.

the GPU Block on PS4's APU is Well below Recommended VR Specs for every other HMD.

I didnt get to see all of the Sony Conference, Will watch it later on.


Either way, all of these consoles are AMD :), which means most of these games likely use GPUOpen and LiquidVR Libraries during development and not GameWorks/VRWorks smile
Posted By: kludger

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/15/16 04:26 PM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
.
I didnt get to see all of the Sony Conference, Will watch it later on.

Either way, all of these consoles are AMD :), which means most of these games likely use GPUOpen and LiquidVR Libraries during development and not GameWorks/VRWorks smile


Yeah I agree with you on VR, i.e. if I go that route, it's definitely on the PC, but I can see VR selling a few consoles if you can buy the VR headset plus console for about the same price as the headset on PC.

Definitely check out the Sony conference, as a fanboy of both consoles (and PC), I enjoyed the Sony one much better than the Microsoft one, much less talking and awkward marketing speak compared to Microsoft, and much more focus on showing games and VR... but then again I hate marketing speak.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g135oVqDR-Q


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRAhtB79b5I

Also I'm not ashamed to admit that Call of Duty Space Marine actually looked damn awesome, I might pick it up if it turns out good, even though I hate normal COD games.
Posted By: Bib4Tuna

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/15/16 08:03 PM



This benchmark seems to vary a little from the Korean site one, but still shows the value/FPS of the RX 480.

http://videocardz.com/61005/new-amd-radeon-rx-480-3dmark-benchmarks

Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/15/16 11:46 PM

Thanks for the link.

Just tested my "single" 28nm HD7979 (not Crossfired) against the above 14nm RX480.

Extreme: HD7970 = 3880 - RX480 = 5708 - RX480/HD7970 = 1.47 -- 47 percent faster

Ultra: HD7970 = 1820 - RX480 = 2856 - RX480/HD7970 = 1.57 -- 57 percent faster

From what I "saw" during the benchmark test, "visually" 3880 is fast enough (barely). So, RX480 is not fast enough on Ultra -- but is more than fast enough on Extreme (my setup is nominally Extreme). Reports say that RX480 does even better in actual games -- we'll see.

Anyhow, if these numbers hold up when the official numbers become available, RX-480 at $229 is a good upgrade (by my standards) for 2x HD7979 (my games play well on a single HD7970). Odds of me buying RX480 for myself have improved. If I buy one for myself, I'd give my wife an HD7970 until the Vega comes out (then buy a Vega for myself and give her the RX480).

[EDIT] Another article indicates virtually no difference between the $199 and $229 RX-480s in the Ultra benchmark. On that basis, I would consider the $199 version. We'll see.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/16/16 03:02 PM

nVidia will be cutting the Price of the 980 Ti's to $369 Range + Most ETailers are doing Coupon Codes.
GTX980 and Below will not be seeing a price cut, they are EoL, and will be liquidated at current prices.


Which means in 2 weeks, RX-480 will have Zero Direct Competition in the $199-$250 Market, aka the 85% of Discrete GPU Sales Market.
Posted By: kludger

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/16/16 04:49 PM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla

Which means in 2 weeks, RX-480 will have Zero Direct Competition in the $199-$250 Market, aka the 85% of Discrete GPU Sales Market.


Is it out in 2 weeks? If so shouldn't we already be seeing some reviews and actual game benchmarks and not just 3DMark scores?

Hoping actual game benchmarks will be good if AMD spent some time on decent driver support.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/16/16 05:06 PM

NDA Lifts on June 29th, which is also the sale day.

I know at least 5 guys that have press review cards already.
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/16/16 05:42 PM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
nVidia will be cutting the Price of the 980 Ti's to $369 Range + Most ETailers are doing Coupon Codes.
GTX980 and Below will not be seeing a price cut, they are EoL, and will be liquidated at current prices.


Which means in 2 weeks, RX-480 will have Zero Direct Competition in the $199-$250 Market, aka the 85% of Discrete GPU Sales Market.


Sounds great if you're selling GPUs or have shares in AMD. $369 for a 980Ti is outstanding value winkngrin
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/16/16 06:01 PM

Benchmarks will start leaking next week garaunteed, cuz some of these sites dont realize once they compare their results with other GPU's in the online database, their entry is stored in the database as well.


Also:
http://www.tweaktown.com/news/52621/rade...-380/index.html

http://techreport.com/news/30279/amd-teases-radeon-rx-470-performance-and-polaris-11-details

http://www.lowyat.net/2016/107592/full-specifications-of-the-radeon-rx-480-graphics-card/

I would seriously consider 2 of those in explicit Multi-Adapter Modes if more sims supported the modes with VR..

xDMA Linking would negate any XFire Bridge Bottlenecks at higher resolutions/frame rates.

Something nVidia is still behind in.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/16/16 08:17 PM

OOps, Mistake:
980 TI's are $400-460
980's are $380ish
970's are $240ish

980 Price is a bad deal considering 1070's Price:Performance:TDP
Not to mention RX-480 will likely beat both in Performance and TDP, for LESS $.
Posted By: kludger

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/16/16 08:30 PM

BTW looks like we won't have to wait long to find out what the XB1 4K can do, just received an email from Gamestop saying pre-order now for the Xbox One S 2TB Console $399 and available on 8/31/2016.

http://www.gamestop.com/xbox-one/console...mp;om_mid=21724

"Introducing the new Xbox One S. Play the greatest games lineup, including Xbox 360 classics, on a 40% smaller console. Experience richer, more luminous colors in games and video with High Dynamic Range. Stream 4K video on Netflix and Amazon Video, and watch UHD Blu-ray movies in stunning 4K Ultra HD. Then get the enhanced comfort and feel of the new Xbox Wireless Controller, featuring textured grip and Bluetooth.*"

No 4K games available for a while I would guess...
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/16/16 08:36 PM

ASUS and MSI Accused of Sampling Revi...etail Units

Quote:
ASUS and MSI Accused of Sampling Review Units of GPUs With Higher Clock Speeds Compared To Retail Units


The "secret" boost is very small. This is nothing totally new. This type of thing has been going on for years. For example, ASUS used to always overclock motherboards I was interested in by about 1 percent -- to "seem to be" the fastest and best.

The examples mentioned in the above article were Nvidia 1080 and 1070 cards from ASUS and MSI. They've done it with AMD parts in the past. So, if ASUS or MSI is just a bit faster, its not necessarily better technology -- it easily could be a minor overclock (relative to standard).


To repeat a point about RX-480 versus Nvidia 980 parts: RX-480 closes some of the gap in DX12 and Vulcan (versus DX11 benchmarks) -- due to the circuitry (not due to the drivers alone). Some older AMD cards also contain circuitry that does better with the new graphics software (DX12).

So, if one is buying to play the latest DX12 games over the next couple years, pundits are saying RX-480 "should" (not guaranteed) close some of the gap with the 970/980 products (compared to the DX11 benchmarks published so far). For completeness, Nvidia 1080 and 1070 circuits are up to date.

Bottom line: We have to wait for the full RX-480 test reports in actual games before we know what to buy (and what to avoid).
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/16/16 10:06 PM

Originally Posted By: kludger
BTW looks like we won't have to wait long to find out what the XB1 4K can do, just received an email from Gamestop saying pre-order now for the Xbox One S 2TB Console $399 and available on 8/31/2016.

http://www.gamestop.com/xbox-one/console...mp;om_mid=21724

"Introducing the new Xbox One S. Play the greatest games lineup, including Xbox 360 classics, on a 40% smaller console. Experience richer, more luminous colors in games and video with High Dynamic Range. Stream 4K video on Netflix and Amazon Video, and watch UHD Blu-ray movies in stunning 4K Ultra HD. Then get the enhanced comfort and feel of the new Xbox Wireless Controller, featuring textured grip and Bluetooth.*"

No 4K games available for a while I would guess...


You might be a little confused kludger? The Xbox One S is effectively just an Xbox One 'Slim' with same spec (OK, some small upgrades) as existing 'fat' console....as Skate has already said it has same CPU/GPU spec so it's not going to magically produce 4K gaming....nor will it suddenly be pushing games at 1080p/60fps however it will 4k video capable.

It's going to be the Xbox 'Scorpio' with updated cpu/gpu spec that brings 4k gaming.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/16/16 10:42 PM

Xbox One S is not the new Xbox 4K/Project Scorpio.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/17/16 05:09 PM

Quote:
AMD RX 480 Can Hit 1.5Ghz+, New Overclocking Tool With Voltage Control Coming

...With the Radeon RX 480 and the RX 400 series in general AMD wants every user to be able to extract even more value out of their RX 400 series graphics card. Beyond what they’d normally get straight out of the box. The key to achieve this is to make overclocking more accessible, more convenient and more valuable. This is where AMD’s new overclocking tool will play an instrumental role in supercharging the bang behind every buck...


1.5GHz is the rumored maximum advertised overclock. More normally expect 1.4GHz on air -- they rumor. Some cards will be "factory overclocked" -- as expected.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/17/16 05:36 PM

1.4 GHz should gimmie enough performance to retire the Lightnings. lol
Posted By: kludger

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/17/16 06:10 PM

Ah thanks Paradaz and Skate, I had thought the XB1 "S" was for "Scorpio", I guess confusing marketing success for an idiot like me biggrin
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/18/16 10:44 AM

Quote:
AMD Stock Rally Continues

AMD (NASDAQ: AMD) stock continues its rally this year and is up ~9.8% on the day. As many of you may recall, AMD stock jumped significantly this year with the expectation of multiple new offerings both in CPU and GPU technology in Zen and the much vaunted Polaris range bringing greater performance per watt and per dollar..

..Lisa Su is also on a charm offensive, talking up AMD’s game and explaining how AMD will reap the benefits of its multi-year investment program. You can see her chatting with CNBC...


I think the market as a whole is in "bubble mode" (due to political actions). So, I'm not suggesting anyone "invest" for the long term ("trading" in the short term is okay) smile

This is just to indicate that the AMD "game plan" may be paying off with some investors. Long term gains will depend on AMD execution and how long the government keeps doing what it is doing. My opinions, of course.

Article
Posted By: Remon

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/19/16 12:26 PM

Originally Posted By: Allen
Quote:
AMD RX 480 Can Hit 1.5Ghz+, New Overclocking Tool With Voltage Control Coming

...With the Radeon RX 480 and the RX 400 series in general AMD wants every user to be able to extract even more value out of their RX 400 series graphics card. Beyond what they’d normally get straight out of the box. The key to achieve this is to make overclocking more accessible, more convenient and more valuable. This is where AMD’s new overclocking tool will play an instrumental role in supercharging the bang behind every buck...


1.5GHz is the rumored maximum advertised overclock. More normally expect 1.4GHz on air -- they rumor. Some cards will be "factory overclocked" -- as expected.


1.5 isn't the maximum. There are vendors that will be selling 1.5GHz cards. Not that they will have much more headroom, but there should be a bit more room for an OC over that.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/19/16 05:33 PM

like i said, i know some guys that are saying 1400MHz makes the 480 run on par w/ the Fury.

1500 is easily attainable on aftermarket cooling.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/19/16 08:57 PM

So Going by Core counts and clocks alone:

TAHITI - 7970/R9-280X = 2048*2*925 = 3.8 TFLOPS
TONGA - R9-380X = 2048*2*970 = 3.973 TFLOPS
HAWAII - R9-390/290 = 2560*2*1025 = 5.248 TFLOPS
POLARIS- RX-480 = 2304*2*1266 = 5.838 TFLOPS
HAWAII - R9-390X/290X = 2816*2*1050 = 5.913 TFLOPS

POLARIS- RX-480 = 2304*2*1500 = 6.912 TFLOPS
Fiji - R9-Fury = 3584*2*1000 = 7.168 TFLOPS
Fiji - R9-FuryX = 4096*2*1000 = 8.192 TFLOPS
Fiji - R9-Fury Nano = 4096*2*1000 =8.192 TFLOPS

Now you have to take into account the core improvements from GCN 1.0 (Tahiti), 1.1 (Hawaii/Tonga), 1.2 (Fiji), 1.3 (Gen 4/Polaris)
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/20/16 09:20 PM

Quote:
Exclusive: Codename Starship

...it looks like AMD has a 7nm product called Starship which will arrive soon..

..The 7nm flavour will be codenamed Starship..

..server chip will have 48 cores and 96 thread support..

Starship is still a concept project and if all goes well, you might see it as soon as 2018...


They speculatively rumor that the 7nm desktop equivalent is also planned.

What's interesting about 7nm is that it is "close to the end" of the downsizing possible with "silicon transistors". That is, there probably will be a practical 3nm someday -- but, maybe not -- under 3nm may not be possible at all.

So, we are approaching the year when the rate of CPU improvement drops sharply -- and when AMD catches up to Intel simply because the technology is "against the wall" and Intel will "stand still" while AMD continues forward to their side (at which point AMD stalls too).

Of course, Intel/AMD are already trying to "break through" to a new technology -- so far, I have not read a "convincing" rumor that they have found a practical successor technology.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/21/16 11:16 AM

Quote:
AMD RX 480 Overclocked to 1607Mhz

So far everything that this particular individual has leaked we’ve managed to corroborate and confirm with our sources. So we know that his leaks are genuine..

..The GPU-Z screencap also confirms pretty much all of the specifications that had been leaked a month ago..

..we have confirmed one additional piece of info. And that is on launch day, 29th of June, only reference RX 480 cards will be available...


The $199 4GB reference card looks better and better for my current purposes. We'll see. But, I am ready to "pull the trigger" on day one -- at $199.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/21/16 02:02 PM

yeah, as long as the blower and heatsink hold up, I'll get one to hold me over until the new stuff comes out.

1600MHz is around 7.3 TFLOPS, Ima Aim for around 1400 myself.


on the other side of the coin I've seen GTX1080's at 2100MHz already.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/21/16 06:49 PM

Yes, I too await the Fall AMD releases (both GPU and CPU). Nonetheless, if rumors are true, RX-480 is a large improvement over my HD7970 -- at $199. So, I'll buy one to "hold me" until Fall.


Quote:
...AMD's Zen processors are seeing stable development and have a satisfactory yield rate, and about to enter the engineering sample stage in the near future..

..AMD Zen chipset designs have already been finalized and will begin shipments at the end of the third quarter and start mass production in the fourth.


[EDIT] Claimed/Rumored: RX-480 Reference will be in good supply at launch date (by comparison with Nvidia 1080 availability at launch). Some sites are taking pre-orders (but not Newegg or Amazon, yet -- where I will go for mine).
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/21/16 07:17 PM

If you have no compatibility issues with Cross Fire:
Two RX-480s in CrossFire for $400-500 w/ only 300w max TDP,

I'd switch to that in a heartbeat, cuz My lightnings pull stupid amounts of power in Xfire mode when both are maxed to the point my APC Beeps that it's overloaded and it's a 1000w UPS/APC, I had to install a Second PSU, To feed the 2nd Card and Plug that into a Separate UPS to keep them from Overloading when playing in XFire Mode.

So drop a fair amount of Power Consumption and heat while getting a Performance Boost Per GPU I'll take it.

with DX12 EMA, No need to continue Xfire Drivers, support the DX9/11 XFire Modes, but DX12 EMA is legit, neighbor was running a R9-280X and a nVidia 970 with crazy good performance,.

Im Looking forward to Split Screen Rendering, so each GPU does a Single Eye.
Posted By: Bib4Tuna

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/21/16 08:37 PM



Confirmation on RX 480 8GB reference base price is $229.


http://videocardz.com/61262/amd-radeon-rx-480-8gb-to-cost-229-usd
Posted By: Bib4Tuna

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/22/16 03:21 PM



AMD says it has enough stock to meet the demand for the release day:

http://wccftech.com/amd-rx-480-pre-order-in-stock/
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/22/16 03:31 PM

Somebody just signed for a pallet of RX-480's at a warehouse :-)
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/22/16 03:54 PM

Quote:
Complications w/ USB 3.1 Circuit Run Distances will have a impact on AM4 Motherboards due to Re-Timer Chips or USB3.1 Controllers being placed to keep signal from degrading.


Funny this pops up in my RSS Feed and sites are pushing it as a AMD Problem, Intel has had this problem for over 2 years now.

Estimated Cost increase is $2-5, But everyone's jumping at the chance to stab AMD for something that Intel is having issues with too......
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/22/16 06:31 PM

Quote:
US$1.4 billion at stake

Intel is still contesting the landmark US$1.4 billion antitrust fine from the European Commission, which in May 2009 found it had abused its dominant position in the market for x86 processors.

In 2009 ruling the Commission, the EU's top antitrust authority, found that between October 2002 and October 2007 Intel sought to exclude its main competitor, AMD from the x86 processor market. It granted exclusivity rebates to four PC and server manufacturers, Dell, HP, Lenovo and NEC, the Commission found...


I wasn't paying attention. I thought they paid up. But, no. Their actions cost AMD Billions -- back when AMD CPUs were better than Intel CPUs -- so, Intel effectively paid folks to NOT use AMD. Dell's entire profit for one year was claimed to be the "payoff money" -- that is, Dell products on their own were not profitable that year.

AMD could use the money.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/22/16 06:40 PM

it was obvious when Intel was hush hush and then bailed on Socket 7 platform w/ Zero Notice,

forcing AMD, CyRix, WinChip, and about half a dozen others to either abandon x86 market or develop their own board,
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/22/16 07:16 PM

Posted By: kludger

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/22/16 07:41 PM

Good gfx benchmark numbers but when are they going to release actual benchmarks in popular games?

SLI/CF value all depends on how well the drivers and games support it.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/22/16 08:55 PM

june 29th when the NDA is lifted.
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/22/16 09:02 PM

Its almost amusing anyone is celebrating a 1% win from a crossfire setup against a single card regardless of cost.

Who in the right mind is going to opt for CF RX480 against a GTX 1080? If you're prepared to spend $450 on two cards surely you'd also realise that $200 isn't worth the hassle, incompatibility and nause in comparison to a single card? I'd probably go for a 1070 myself for similar money if cost was an issue purely based on a crossfire setup is obviously based on performance......the problem being you're left with a relatively weak compromise from a single RX480 if your chosen game doesn't support or scale crossfire.

Lets be honest, someone with CF RX480 is unlikely to be playing on a single 1080p screen....a single card isn't going to be great for VR (when dual GPU is realised) or 1440p and beyond.

You rarely find anyone who had used SLi/CF without horror stories.....in a lot of cases it just isn't worth the entrance fee.
Posted By: kludger

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/22/16 10:41 PM

I think one of the main selling points of the 1080 and 1070 for me is they perform like 2x980 SLI and 2x970 SLI respectively.

So it sounds like 2x480 CF = 1080 = 2x980 SLI performance, so the value probably depends on much AMD and Nvidia battle it out as far as pricing of the 480 versus existing 980 stock.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/22/16 11:43 PM

Originally Posted By: Paradaz
...CF RX480 against a GTX 1080...


No argument.

I'll buy an RX-480 now (if performance rumors are correct) and a Vega in the Fall/Winter. Vega will probably come close to or surpass CF RX-480. I can rationalize the RX-480 now because my wife could use a new card and so could my Grandson (buying an RX-480 frees up two HD7970).

Meantime, even a single one of my 4 year old HD7970s plays all the games I play currently at maximum settings (1440P and 0AA which I prefer). Leaked info indicates a single RX-480 may equal 1.5 HD7970 in some cases (a nice upgrade, if true).

Crossfire can be a good low cost upgrade in a year or so when RX-480 stock is being cleared for the next big thing. That's how I did Crossfire HD7970 -- got a cheap one a year or so later. Crossfire mostly works for my games -- not always -- however, I don't need it for any games I currently play at 1440P on a single monitor (I have 3 monitors).

Just info, FWIW.
Posted By: Remon

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/23/16 12:37 AM

Originally Posted By: Paradaz
Its almost amusing anyone is celebrating a 1% win from a crossfire setup against a single card regardless of cost.

Who in the right mind is going to opt for CF RX480 against a GTX 1080? If you're prepared to spend $450 on two cards surely you'd also realise that $200 isn't worth the hassle, incompatibility and nause in comparison to a single card? I'd probably go for a 1070 myself for similar money if cost was an issue purely based on a crossfire setup is obviously based on performance......the problem being you're left with a relatively weak compromise from a single RX480 if your chosen game doesn't support or scale crossfire.

Lets be honest, someone with CF RX480 is unlikely to be playing on a single 1080p screen....a single card isn't going to be great for VR (when dual GPU is realised) or 1440p and beyond.

You rarely find anyone who had used SLi/CF without horror stories.....in a lot of cases it just isn't worth the entrance fee.


No one's celebrating. It's just a measure of 480's strength. A hard concept to grasp, I know.
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/23/16 06:22 AM

Really?........you should try looking at the reaction on the Internet to these articles showing the firestrike benchmark with the 1% lead!
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/23/16 11:55 AM

Speaking about Vega, today's rumor:

Quote:
AMD VEGA 10 confirmed?

Raja Koduri is supposedly meeting a GPU design team in Shanghai, where they celebrated ‘a milestone’ in Vega 10 GPU development. .. (quote: ‘long way to go before you see it’). .. VEGA 10 will be equipped with HBM2 memory, a technology that is still very rare in GPU industry (only available with Pascal GP100).

Earlier leaks indicated that AMD is working on a new chip with 4096 Stream Processors. It is without a doubt a new competitor to Pascal GP104 and probably even upcoming GP102.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/23/16 02:33 PM

Originally Posted By: Allen
Speaking about Vega, today's rumor:

Quote:
AMD VEGA 10 confirmed?

Raja Koduri is supposedly meeting a GPU design team in Shanghai, where they celebrated ‘a milestone’ in Vega 10 GPU development. .. (quote: ‘long way to go before you see it’). .. VEGA 10 will be equipped with HBM2 memory, a technology that is still very rare in GPU industry (only available with Pascal GP100).

Earlier leaks indicated that AMD is working on a new chip with 4096 Stream Processors. It is without a doubt a new competitor to Pascal GP104 and probably even upcoming GP102.


If Clocks stay the same,
That's theoretically 10.3+ TFLOPs


I thoroughly enjoyed reading the AMD Bashing in the comments of some of the recent articles.

Claiming AMD is ignoring the PC Master Race, and catering the the console players.

And I'm sittin' there like:
"Umm, So you're saying a company positioning their products in the 86% of the Discrete Market is a bad idea?"

nVidia's GPUs are Positioned in the 9% Discrete market that Spends $500+, Their GPU Yields are Still in the Toilet, so Availability is still in the toilet


End Run Scenario?

Polaris 10 is 232mm Sq.
Pascal 104 is 350mm Sq.

Polaris-10 is Getting fantastic yields per run, Pascal-104 is not, Polaris Costs Significantly less to produce due to size and yields.

So While people struggle to get their hands on the GP-104in the 9% $500+ Performance Market,

People are going to be buying the Polaris-10's in mass on launch day.

so if the RX-480 outsells the GTX1080 10:1, AMD is not only bringing in more revenue due to Price and Availability,

they are also taking Discrete GPU Marketshare from nVidia, that used to be the GTX980/970/960 and 950ti.

as far as AMD is concerned, they can have that 9%, they'll take the 86%
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/23/16 03:04 PM

http://www.thecountrycaller.com/32630-ad...s-at-full-load/


-Less than 60^c w/ Default Fan Profile on Full Load/Stress Tests,
-100w Load at Full Load..




So.... Running an Higher / More Aggressive Fan Profile, and with 50w of headroom on that 6 Pin Connector.

Seing 1500MHz Easily, and Guys are on Skype saying their review boards are hitting 1600MHz. (which would be double a 7970)

I never see the temps in Gaming that I See running stress tests....

I *Might* Hold off to see AIB Partner Offerings, because Im still trying to budget in $250 for one.

But the 100w Peak in Stress tests w/ 60^C temps is Fantastic.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/23/16 03:08 PM

Quote:
...Radeon RX 470, which should end up with a US $149 MSRP for the 4GB version..

..Ellesmere Pro GPU with 32 Compute Units and 2048 Stream Processors..

With these specifications, the Radeon RX 470 could end up faster than Radeon R9 380X, which means it could be a perfect choice for 1080p gamers...


RX 470 4GB should equal or exceed my HD7970 3GB performance. My HD7970 (single card) does 1440P very well. So, as they note, no one on 1080P (or less) should need more to play the best current games at maximum settings -- at only $149 list price -- a new era in price/performance.
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/23/16 06:56 PM

It's also subjective Allen and depends what games you're playing....I moved from a 7970 to a GTX 970 and got a hefty performance increase - however a GTX970 is still on the limit at 1440p if you're wanting to max all those settings in the latest games. Your typical BF4, Witcher, DCS, Arma are really pushing the 970 to its limits and that already has a 30-50% performance increase over the 7970.

I can see some of the advantages in the new Polaris cards, especially cost/bang for buck but at the same time I do see a lot of comments about market share and sales figures....the only issue there is that they're great if you're selling these cards yourself or if you have a stake in the company - as a simmer/gamer sales figures aren't going to help us or provide extra performance in the short term.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/23/16 09:26 PM

Originally Posted By: Paradaz
It's also subjective Allen and depends what games you're playing...


Agree and agree smile

Particularly with the "subjective" aspect -- I go by what I "see" and "feel". If a consistent 15FPS minimum looks and feels good, its okay with me -- I won't measure the FPS (like I used to do). Others have different criteria and may be appalled to get "only" 30FPS -- even if they can't actually see the difference between 30 and 60 in a blind test. To each his/her own.

So, different folks may see it differently. I'll be interested to actually own an RX-480 and "see" and "feel" what it gives me. I am open to the possibility that it will have an unexpected flaw.

Regarding games, lately I play Fallout 4 (with some substantial visual mods that add loads of extra grass, plants, trees, and details) and Witcher 3 stock with updates -- both at maximum visual settings (0AA). Other games I play are not as tough on the GPU.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/23/16 11:11 PM

Like I said,

I'll get one as a Stop gap, as the current setup I have isnt VR Compatible, and I have to replace a Lightning w/ an older 7930 GPU for HDMI,

I'll likely get an RX480 as a Stop gap, overclock it, then when vega hits, get one of those, and demote my 480 to my brother's rig, replacing a 7950
.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/24/16 12:39 AM

Quote:
Advanced Micro Devices, Inc (NASDAQ: AMD) Shares Drop 8% With Sharp Increase In Traded Volume


In an above recent post, I noted AMD shares were climbing based partly on an improved perception of the business plan.

Now, they are dropping. The price did go up substantially. That triggered the sell off by profit takers (Traders).

As I noted above: Trading (buying and selling in the short term based on market indicators) is okay. But, not Investing (holding for the long term).

Just posting this for completeness. If I talk about "up", I must talk about "down" to be even handed.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/24/16 10:36 AM

Everyone's stock took a dive yesterday.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/24/16 04:03 PM

At this moment, Newegg is showing RX-480 by six manufacturers. Not for pre-order. Rather for "auto notification" when they are in stock. I signed up -- but, buying will wait until we have "hard test data".

A consideration: All 6 currently showing are reference and have 3 x DisplayPort and 1 x HDMI port -- so one's monitor(s) need to support that (or buy an adapter).
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/24/16 04:08 PM

AIB Cooling Solutions wont be out on the 29th, dont remember where I saw it,

However 95-100w Full Load in stress tests and a SHORT PCB completely covered w/ heatsink and shroud w/ fan extended over the edge, i doubt cooling will be a problem on the stock cards.

It does look like I'm gonna need to get at least 2 DP -> MiniDP adapters ($7 each...) for my Monitors
(io have 1 DP->DVI-D, and like 8 MiniDP->DVI-D Active Adapters + a Bunch of MiniDP->HDMI ones I tried w/ the Rift)

As None of the AIB Photos of their custom boards show a variance away from the 3 Full Display Port connections.
Posted By: Bib4Tuna

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/25/16 03:41 PM



biggrin

Taking a page from Apple's Macintosh playbook, I see...
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/26/16 12:46 AM

Quote:
AMD’s RX 480 is now beginning to hit US stores. In quantities that are allegedly more than 20 times larger than GTX 1080 shipments at launch..

..yesterday a Microcenter branch in Overland Park Kansas revealed to a customer that they’re receiving a shipment of 100 RX 480 cards on the 28th of June. That’s exactly 25 times as many GTX 1080 cards the same branch had [at launch]..which was only four. We called the branch & confirmed. We were also told that their stock of GTX 1080 cards is currently limited...


Newegg has a 4GB Sapphire reference card listed (not for sale yet) -- along with 7 other make/models.

Rumor is that some stores are ALREADY have them "in the house". Some have not signed papers prohibiting sale prior to 29th. So, some cards may be available before June 29, the rumor monger speculates.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/26/16 01:40 AM

ive physically unloaded at least 2 palets of them.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/27/16 12:43 PM

Sites are leaking Software slides of the new OC tool from RTG.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/28/16 10:21 AM

At the moment I write this, Newegg has 37 Nvidia 1080 and 1070 listed -- 0 1080 models and only 1 1070 model in stock.

Today's rumor is that Nvidia will release the 1060 a month earlier and at lower prices than planned to compete with RX-480. It will be interesting to see actual 1060 availability in the first month.

Tomorrow, the RX-480 speculation/rumor-mongering ends, presumably. It will be interesting to see actual RX-480 availability. That is: Will this be an RX-480 "semi-paper launch" (like Nvidia's) or a real launch. Anyhow, I'm ready to "grab one" -- unless the reviews "say otherwise".

Competition is good smile
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/28/16 02:36 PM

1060 can launch today, and no one will see one till september
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/28/16 08:00 PM

Tomorrow is gonna be fun smile
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/28/16 08:12 PM

My GTX1080 arrived last Friday......its beautiful thumbsup

Some RX480 reviews ready for print tomorrow are already getting leaked;

http://wccftech.com/radeon-rx-480-gaming-performance-review-leaked/
Posted By: kludger

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/28/16 09:57 PM

Man congrats on the 1080, was it worth it?

From that leaked review, it looks like RX480 = GTX970 and not GTX980 as some suggested.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/28/16 10:58 PM

Originally Posted By: Paradaz
My GTX1080 arrived last Friday......its beautiful thumbsup

Some RX480 reviews ready for print tomorrow are already getting leaked;

http://wccftech.com/radeon-rx-480-gaming-performance-review-leaked/



Looks like a combination of all the leaks and no actual content of their own.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/29/16 12:22 AM

Originally Posted By: Paradaz
My GTX1080 arrived last Friday......its beautiful thumbsup


Agree. The 1080 is the new-era, fastest single card on the market. And, it will remain the fastest for at least a few months wink

Tomorrow, the RX-480 will be new-era also. Remains to be seen how fast. confused

Enjoy the 1080 smile

Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/29/16 12:50 AM

3 hours to go.. :-)
Posted By: kludger

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/29/16 01:43 AM

Hmm the initial ones that have popped up on sale have been at $249 and even $284:

http://www.nowinstock.net/computers/videocards/amd/rx480/
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/29/16 02:56 AM

Yup. Its late on the 28th as I write. Going to bed.

So far, the prices are "higher than rumored" ($239 plus shipping) to "ridiculous" ($375 from third party re-seller). Most cards are "listed", but not yet on sale.

The one 4GB version that was listed previously has been "taken down". That should have been the $199 version.

So far, no good. Hopefully, I will awaken to better news.
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/29/16 05:00 AM

Originally Posted By: kludger
Man congrats on the 1080, was it worth it?

From that leaked review, it looks like RX480 = GTX970 and not GTX980 as some suggested.


Well, I know that I paid a premium and UK prices don't really align with the dollar equivalent but It's obviously a top card......I paid £579 for the Inno3D iChill X3 version and pre-ordered it on 28th May. The date kept getting pushed back as it was originally due on 10th June. It's obviously a beast of a card.....whisper quiet and I'd 'patiently' waited since the back end of last year for it. The plan was always to give my 970 to my son and upgrade in preparation for my Oculus VR which arrived a week before the GPU so timing was good. I was so tempted to splash out for the 980ti in the run up to the Pascal release out of sheer impatience.

I'm still testing the waters and playing with the Oculus but in comparison to my old 970 which struggled to keep its head above the water in Project CARS at max settings at 1440p, the frame rate would sit around 40-60 but the deal breaker was when things got busy such as when it rained or at the start of a race with loads of cars on the track it stuttered and the fps dropped so low it forced me to drop settings. The 1080 cuts through it like a knife through butter and maintains 100fps with everything at 'ultra'. At 1440p that's overkill but for the Oculus the high frame rate is essential and it's something else for the immersion.

In terms of bang for buck it's always going to be hard to justify however as the fastest single card and currently the only one that will get close to the 90fps in most games for the Oculus until multi-GPU is supported and can drive each eye-piece it's worth the asking price (for me). I'm very interested in AMD's offerings starting with the RX480 as I'm hoping it provides the much needed competition and starts driving Nvidia's silly prices down. I guess that in the future my upgrade path will be a second GTX1080 if the scaling turns out to be good and the price is reduced unless the 1080Ti or AMD Navi smashes performance into a completely different level in which case I'd have to suck humble pie and remortgage my house!

0600hrs here in the UK and the RX480 info is still not published yet.

Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/29/16 01:23 PM

In Doom and Fallout 4 at 1440P at ULTRA settings (games of interest to me), looking at the entire timeline plot (averages can be misleading) of FPS vs Time on one site, RX-480 is equivalent to R9-390 and barely exceeds GTX 980.

The RX-480 tends to win at points where framerate drops to lowest levels (where FPS becomes most important). Framerates in roughly 40 - 50 range (more than enough for me at 1440P ULTRA).

That's what the rumors have been predicting (in my reading of the rumors). So far, so good on the test reports (in my reading of them -- others may have a different opinion).
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/29/16 01:34 PM

I ordered the Sapphire RX-480 8GB. Cost me $244 (with shipping) -- a $14 premium overall. And, Newegg "slow" shipping frown
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/29/16 01:41 PM

so far in benches that favor nVidia, RX480 exceeds 390X and bareley touches Fury GTX 970 and 980s,, in AMD favored engines, it stomps 970 and 980s and barely matches 390/X

At 1080P


As you move thru 1440p to 4K the 480 drops to below 390X.

The Power Consumption numbers dont match up tho.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/29/16 01:53 PM

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/RX_480/29.html


of course they skimped on the cooler, Id remove it and repaced with an AiO water cooler.

Remove shroud, remove heatsink, mount AiO, cut tube holes in the shroud, remount shroud, keep fan for blowing on VRM and memory.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/29/16 02:02 PM

Here's a typical chart of FPS vs Time 1440P Ultra Fallout 4.

Of interest to me is the fact that the chart wiggles a lot. Rather than "do the exact math", I look at the overall impression.

It would be hard to tell the compared cards apart just by playing the games. My favorite mantra, one can "measure" a difference, but it would be hard or impossible to "see".

At the point where framerate drops for an extended period (a key point) RX480 tends (not always) to be towards the top (not on the top). One won't "see" the difference, but its in the right direction.

I note that my "impressions" are "subjective" to an extent -- but, what we "see" is subjective (vs. Objective measurement).



Posted By: Hunedog

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/29/16 03:05 PM

The card only had 32 ROP's, that in itself is impressive. Slam 64
into the equation you got yourself a 1440p contender. IMHO

A great 1080p card for a more than reasonable amount of dough.

Asking price for a 1070 is $580-620 for a 1070 where I am. Having said that
Go! AMD Go!


runningdog
Posted By: kludger

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/29/16 03:14 PM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
so far in benches that favor nVidia, RX480 exceeds 390X and bareley touches Fury GTX 970 and 980s,, in AMD favored engines, it stomps 970 and 980s and barely matches 390/X
At 1080P
As you move thru 1440p to 4K the 480 drops to below 390X.
The Power Consumption numbers dont match up tho.


Yeah, now that some real game benchmarks are coming out, it looks like the RX480 is a good priced card that is on par with the GTX970 and not the GTX980 as some of the leaked artificial benchmarks suggested (plus or minus the titles that favor AMD or NV and vice versa). To be honest I think the those leaked artificial benchmarks cause more harm than good as far as setting expectations that this would perform like a 980 and now you get the inevitable disappointment of reality.



Still great value for something that matches the 970, the 480 will definitely make Nvidia have to drop their prices on the 970/980.

Here's hoping AMD also have something up their sleeve to battle with the 1070/1080, which is more what I am interested in.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/29/16 03:25 PM

also gotta look at driver tuning for polaris.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/29/16 03:26 PM

DX12 should be a strength of RX480 versus the previous generation Nvidia cards. A comprehensive review article posts this chart. Note the RX480 outperforms 970 and 980 (on average) by a notable amount (in this article). As usual, the differences may not be "visible" when playing.

Posted By: Bib4Tuna

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/29/16 03:27 PM


I have seen several reviews today. They have one thing in common.

They are all over the place.

There seem to be kind of consistent in the 480 numbers (I guess because all we have right now are reference cards).

But the Nvidia numbers are inconsistent among testers. Everyone is using different cards. Some even using factory overclocked cards.

On the average though, AMD achieved what they wanted/promised.

But other than that it gets confusing, as people pick and choose results to reinforce their particular bias.
Posted By: kludger

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/29/16 03:34 PM

Yeah agreed the 480 is a good card for the mid level gamer market sector and well priced, unfortunately I think the artificial leaked benchmarks just provided fuel for the fanboys to stoke the fire before (AMD fanboys expecting a 980 competitor for $200) and after release (Nvidia fanboys doing the I told you so).

That's one reason I don't put much faith in rumors or leaks and wait for actual game benchmarks.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/29/16 03:43 PM

to amend my previous statement about Nvidia engines and AMD favored engines.


the Rx480 easily stomps the entire 980 and below line in almost every DX12 Engine.

Im gonna wait to see Partner Cards, if not mod the Reference Cooling.

But only 1 review had the off power and heat numbers, I think they got a bad card.
Posted By: kludger

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/29/16 03:49 PM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
to amend my previous statement about Nvidia engines and AMD favored engines.
the Rx480 easily stomps the entire 980 and below line in almost every DX12 Engine.


Can you provide some examples?

The ones I've seen are not any sort of easily stomping, unless you consider 2fps at 1080p and then level at 1440p, and 1 FPS less at 4K on Total Warhammer and then exactly even fps on Ashes of Singularity...

http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/amd-radeon-r9-rx-480-8gb-review,12.html
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/amd_radeon_r9_rx_480_8gb_review,13.html

I'm honestly interested to see if there are some real world game stomp examples, otherwise those kinds of exaggerated statements are what leads to bad expectations and then I told you so's.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/29/16 04:04 PM

for clarification, when I say stomp, i mean beats another gpus scores/stats while costing significantly less.
Posted By: kludger

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/29/16 04:14 PM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
for clarification, when I say stomp, i mean beats another gpus scores/stats while costing significantly less.


Ok cool, thanks for clarifying, I agree, it's definitely a terrific bang for the buck especially on DX12 titles.

Anyone seen any realworld game benchmarks with crossfired 2x480 versus the competition?

Haven't really seen any yet.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/29/16 04:26 PM

most of the DX12 benches were ran with ASync off to make it fair.

if you turn on Async, AMD FPS jump.


there was a link in my RSS feed for 2,3,,4 way xfire benches article, but it 404s when clicked, and after refreshing rss its gone.

Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/29/16 04:59 PM

EK has released pix of the 480 Waterblocks...
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/29/16 06:44 PM

http://www.pcgamer.com/best-buy-mixed-up...gn=buffer-maxpc


haha....


Buddy of mine got his off the shelf at local shop, they got plenty, we gonna overclock the bejeevies out of it.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/29/16 07:17 PM

I see Newegg (where I ordered mine) is out of stock of all brands. So, I guess I did okay both getting a card and the manufacturer I wanted.

The only review issue I've come across for RX-480 Reference cards is that some reviewers don't like the Reference cooler. But, that's to be expected in a "reference" device -- its the cheapest version usually -- and AMD typically skimps on the cooler.

Anyhow, now I wait 4 to 7 days for it to arrive. Then, I'll see for myself how it handles what I play versus my HD7970s.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/29/16 07:25 PM

Originally Posted By: Allen
I see Newegg (where I ordered mine) is out of stock of all brands. So, I guess I did okay both getting a card and the manufacturer I wanted.

The only review issue I've come across for RX-480 Reference cards is that some reviewers don't like the Reference cooler. But, that's to be expected in a "reference" device -- its the cheapest version usually -- and AMD typically skimps on the cooler.

Anyhow, now I wait 4 to 7 days for it to arrive. Then, I'll see for myself how it handles what I play versus my HD7970s.


The reference cooler is pretty cheap, Its simply a small aluminum heatsink with copper contact plate, no heat pipes, no vapor chambers, and it only covers the gpu area, everything else is cooled from small cheap heat plate.

like I said,
If the mounting holes are the same, Id swap out the heatsink with a cooler on one of my retired Cards,

Or Mount a $30 AiO water cooler to the GPU, likely needing a shim, then some copper heatsinks to The ram and vrm modules cut a space or remove the top shroud plate and make a custom one to allow space for AiO hoses and use the centro fan to push air over the copper sinks w/o void warranty for cutting shroud cover..

I think they might be throttling in these benchmarks, specially when 3 sites repprted load temps of 85°c+


For me, the best case scenario is the heatsink mounting holes are the same size as previous ones,

I have a 7870XT Sapphire DualX Cooler, Sapphire 7950 DualX Cooler, and 3 MSI R7970 Lightning Twin Frozer Coolers (1 was an Extra i got on ebay for $5).

All of which will be replaced as I get new cards, so the 7870XT has a heatsink that's rated for well above anything the Polaris Chip will put out.

Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/29/16 08:35 PM

Good suggestions. It would be nice to have a "left over cooler" to switch out.

If heat is an issue, I'd prefer a cheap water cooler to match my water cooled CPU. However, money is an object based on "principle" -- so, I'd go cheap. In my view, RX480 Reference is not a "good deal" if I must replace the cooler to get acceptable performance. We'll see smile

[edit] Just checked. Cooling is too pricey,
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/29/16 09:03 PM

i think reviewer decided to limit the fan, but thats just me.
Posted By: Remon

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/29/16 11:47 PM

I'll wait for the non-reference models. I don't trust that 6 pin connector. Plus, there are issues with the card drawing more power from the PCIe slot.

And Total Warhammer dx12 is in beta still, it was released today. Was the 480 really tested on dx12?
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/30/16 12:03 AM

Hhhmmm......

Skate..can we confirm for clarity.....

I know this is an AMD enthusiast thread but the GTX 980 'exceeds' the RX480 performance at 1080p with 10fps+ but at 1440p the roles are reversed and the RX480 suddenly 'stomps' all over the competition with +1fps and the price suddenly becomes a significant element of the testing? (using benchmarks from your own links)

If custom water cooling with very limited overclocking capacity becomes part of the reason one would opt for the RX480 with 5% headroom over a GTX 970/980 with 10-20% overclocking headroom, is it a viable solution in today's games especially given the Nvidia's prices are reduced and offer a viable more powerful alternative?

Initial impression seems like to be that you're far too keen to promote the virtues of a brand name over actual gaming performance.
Posted By: Remon

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/30/16 12:18 AM

No one said that you need watercooling or that the headroom is only 5%. And the card shouldn't be compared with the 980, it's opposite the 970. In the future, when dx12 is more common, yes, it will be a better card than the 980. Probably.
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/30/16 01:02 AM

That's right...no-one said you need watercooling......but overclocking headroom so far seems to be tight on the RX480 yet we all know from experience its plentiful in the 970/980.

With the much needed price reductions from Nvidia on the GTX970/980 it's still the better card to opt for at the moment. Question is.....is the RX480 really a breakthrough or just more of the same from AMD? The gaming benchmarks aren't the massive breakthrough nor bang for buck differential that were hinted at especially when Nvidia reduce their prices due to the competition.

Is is enough to sway game developers to use this instruction set as the PC benchmark....? Obviously not. My personal thoughts are that whilst AMD are back in the game in the mid-range segment their top end card in 12 months time is just going to get trumped again. Is bang for buck enough to get PC market share....? Or are game devs going to continue the current trend and use the highest spec Nvidia cards to promote their titles and subsequently advertise the green camp as the best gaming option?
Posted By: Remon

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/30/16 06:19 AM

When you consider dx12 performance, 480 is again the better card. And actually the 480 right now is the best perf/$ card out there. Unfortunately, techpowerup is broken, when it'll start operating well, there's a graph there that shows the 480 first in bang for buck, with both the 4 GB and 8 GB configurations.

What do you mean instruction set? Dx12? That and Vulkan both favor AMD, so, they are the most future proof cards out there right now.

Anyway, TPUs per/$ chart at 1080p

Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/30/16 10:41 AM

Originally Posted By: Paradaz
That's right...no-one said you need watercooling......but overclocking headroom so far seems to be tight on the RX480 yet we all know from experience its plentiful in the 970/980.

With the much needed price reductions from Nvidia on the GTX970/980 it's still the better card to opt for at the moment. Question is.....is the RX480 really a breakthrough or just more of the same from AMD? The gaming benchmarks aren't the massive breakthrough nor bang for buck differential that were hinted at especially when Nvidia reduce their prices due to the competition.

Is is enough to sway game developers to use this instruction set as the PC benchmark....? Obviously not. My personal thoughts are that whilst AMD are back in the game in the mid-range segment their top end card in 12 months time is just going to get trumped again. Is bang for buck enough to get PC market share....? Or are game devs going to continue the current trend and use the highest spec Nvidia cards to promote their titles and subsequently advertise the green camp as the best gaming option?






The Gaming Benches are pretty much where they are supposed to be, i took exceptions to a few, because the numbers dont add up, and it's likely because the reviewer ran the card hot, one after another after another for benches w/ no cool down time, No way the 480 reaches 85^c a few minutes into a benchmark.

nVidia Slashed GTX980/970 Prices, but those are EoL SKU's, and will likely be gone soon.
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/30/16 11:37 AM

Originally Posted By: Remon
When you consider dx12 performance, 480 is again the better card. And actually the 480 right now is the best perf/$ card out there. Unfortunately, techpowerup is broken, when it'll start operating well, there's a graph there that shows the 480 first in bang for buck, with both the 4 GB and 8 GB configurations.


Whilst I don't disagree with what you're saying there, performance per dollar is only valid if budget is your main driver. Overall performance is of much higher importance to many people and the GTX1070 also offers fairly pretty good value especially as it offers almost twice the level of performance across almost every game .....saying that if the GTX 970 is the most popular gaming GPU the RX480 isn't going to be of much benefit even at the relatively low cost so are big numbers going to be shifted? To anyone with a lesser card with a budget looking to upgrade its obviously a no-brainer though.

I would also add that it's far too early to be claiming a certain card/manufacturer is a winner in terms of DX12 when there are only a few titles that utilise it together with Nvidia's obvious driver problems. It's not all about Async Compute either when Nvidias performance drops off in DX12 titles when not even using it. It will be interesting to see how the GTX1060 fits into the rankings and price point but hopefully it benefits everyone and the competition drives prices further down.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/30/16 12:53 PM

1060 will be nice budget card, However 3/6GB Variants, 192-Bit memory, according to GP106 Chart, and a Paper Launch Next Week, who knowns when stock will be available, as they moved the launch up in response to AMD's RX480.

TDP will prolly be around 125w, so they'll likely round up to 150w (Slot + 6Pin),

Not gonna get much lower than that running GDDR5 or GDDR5x at 8Gb/sec+

Posted By: Remon

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/30/16 04:49 PM

Nvidia doesn't have driver issues in dx12. It's the exact opposite. AMD had driver issues in dx11, which are solved now.
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/30/16 04:53 PM

Clearly - I'm sure you have a perfectly rational reason then why DX12 compatible hardware takes a nosedive in performance even when Async Compute is not being used.......and if drivers cannot be improved then Nvidia won't be expecting any performance increase?
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/30/16 05:10 PM

Asynchronous Compute was developed w/ Cooperation from AMD, they supported it since HD7000 Series,

So HD7000, HD8000 (Mobile), Rx-200, Rx-300 and Rx-400 Series.

nVidia on the other hand didnt care much for it and didnt really work on it until Pascal Architecture.

nVidia's original excuse was their scheduler was already that efficient it didnt need Async to fill processing gaps. etc.


Which kind of makes Sense,
Using the same Engines
AMD on DX11, gets spanked by nVidia on DX11
AMD on DX12 w/ AC Off, Has a Performance boost to bring withing reach of nVidia.
AMD on DX12 w/ AC On, Has this Drastic Performance increase, overtakes nVidia, who pretty much either had no performance gain or a regression.

AMD's DX11 Drivers had a bottleneck, that's slowly been fixed over the last year or so since RTG Started.
Posted By: Remon

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/30/16 05:22 PM

Bad programming, and Nvidia not supporting async compute, is at fault more than anything else. Quantum Break has massive problems, Tomb Raiders implementation is crippled due to the game being Nvidia sponsored on the PC (on consoles it supports async compute, which is removed on the pc).

Forza Apex, I believe there's no loss in performance there between dx11 and dx12 too, just AMD cards run the game better, and Hitman on a 980 has the exact same performance in dx11 or dx12 too.



AotS, which of course supports async compute, works much better in AMD, and no driver will change that, since not even Pascal support async compute on the hardware. I don't know what happens with Total War Warhammer's performance.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/30/16 05:44 PM

Forza Apex is DX12 Only.

Forza 6 and Forza Horizon III also Use DX12 that was part of the DirectX UWA Xbox Update a while Back.

Either Way, Games Programmed for UWA use an API that's designed to run Applications on AMD Hardware.
Posted By: Remon

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 06/30/16 10:18 PM

Anyway, it runs very well on Nvidia cards too. It's not the APIs fault. It's AMDs fault that dx11 run badly on their cards.

Which, to be honest, means something about GCN 1.1 cards. They are 3 years old, the 390x is essentially a 290x card with more memory, and it was competing with Nvidias more recent cards.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/01/16 01:29 AM

Skatezilla,

Regarding your comments about a cooler. Seems that the "custom" RX480 (not Reference) may see some very high clocks with cooling. But, not every GPU can do it.

The RUMOR





That could be worthwhile spending more $$ for. Have to wait on the custom (non reference) cards to see what hits the market.

On the other hand, I'm looking forward to Vega -- and spending more than I did (before then) is not in the plan. I do have one of those slow, noisy, power sucking Reference cards on its way (due Wednesday) wink
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/01/16 01:44 AM

Well w/ 1266MHz, they are hitting 170watts, which is well over the Limit, and drawing 100w from the pcie slot which is dangerous.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/01/16 11:34 AM

Quote:
Advanced Micro Devices, Inc (NASDAQ: AMD) Acquires Software Company ‘HiAlgo’ – Pushes Forward On Streamlining Software Side Of Gaming Technology


The article indicates other acquisitions/partnerships recently.

The point is that AMD "seems here to stay" (in AMD's eyes, at least).

Good news for competition. Competition is good smile

[Edit] Article also notes AMD $2 Billion in debt. However, Intel owes AMD $1.4 Billion that Intel is "fighting in court" to overturn. So, if Intel pays up. That also would help AMD -- assuming I got that part right.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/01/16 11:46 AM

An article that came up within the last 45min (as I write) says:

Quote:
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 Official Specifications and Benchmarks Leaked – 15% Faster Than RX 480, More Than 40% Efficient Than Polaris 10


However, its not apparently faster at everything -- based on an information-limited "leak".

So, Nvidia fans may have a low cost competitive product to consider. However, those are Nvidia's "leaked" numbers. So, we'll see.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/01/16 12:03 PM

going by the GP106 Specs, I doubt it, GP106 will be about 3.8 TFLOPs. and have a smaller memory bus.
Posted By: Remon

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/01/16 12:08 PM

If anyone plans to buy the reference, there are reports by a german site that undervolting the card actually improves performance and of course power draw.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/01/16 12:18 PM

http://m.hexus.net/tech/news/graphics/94...ides-published/

1060 Slides.

Note I can 99.99% Garauntee those 480 crushing numbers are from specific instances that use GameWorks/VR Works etc.

No way you spank another GPU by 100% with 2 less TFLOPs, smaller memory bus and smaller memory banks.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/01/16 12:19 PM

Originally Posted By: Remon
If anyone plans to buy the reference, there are reports by a german site that undervolting the card actually improves performance and of course power draw.


Im seeing the same, in fact, underv9lting increases the OC ability a lil.

more mV = More Power = More heat.

Undervolt them = Less power = Less heat = less GPU throttling at 75°c.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/01/16 03:53 PM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
...No way you spank another GPU by 100% with 2 less TFLOPs, smaller memory bus and smaller memory banks.


I felt similarly: That the "basic underlying numbers" don't fully add up to a crushing defeat of RX-480. Much depends on what was actually measured and how it was measured.

Nvidia makes really good stuff -- no argument there. Still, I have found one needs to be extra careful taking their official-word, "look behind the curtain" (i.e. wait for the unbiased reviews that may indicate what are they are leaving unsaid).

Spoken like the AMD fan I am smile
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/01/16 04:16 PM

By time the 1060 hits shelves AMD likely would have fixed most of the issues via Driver and Firmy updates.. lol

Every VR users I know that upgraded from 980 or the Ti/Titan GPUs are still wondering and looking for these massive VR FPS Gains that nVidia Advertised in the tech Demos and press conferences..

They are no where to be found, because those numbers are based off their Carnival VR Tech Demo that is prolly the ONLY piece of software that uses VR Works, which is not compatible with SteamVR nor OculusVR's API's
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/01/16 04:20 PM

Originally Posted By: Allen
Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
...No way you spank another GPU by 100% with 2 less TFLOPs, smaller memory bus and smaller memory banks.


I felt similarly: That the "basic underlying numbers" don't fully add up to a crushing defeat of RX-480. Much depends on what was actually measured and how it was measured.

Nvidia makes really good stuff -- no argument there. Still, I have found one needs to be extra careful taking their official-word, "look behind the curtain" (i.e. wait for the unbiased reviews that may indicate what are they are leaving unsaid).

Spoken like the AMD fan I am smile


Then again,

RX480 is 5.8TFLOPS
1070 is 6.4 TFLOPS,

And the Performance gap is pretty big.

But the GPU Architecture's are vastly different in size,


Like Comparing a 4Cylinder Camaro to a V6/V8 Mustang in a Wide Open Drag Race...
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/01/16 05:05 PM

http://videocardz.com/61769/exclusive-powercolor-radeon-rx-480-devil-pictured
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/01/16 08:18 PM

Quote:
Is the RX480 a power vampire?
... Tom’s Hardware which found that the RX480 they had received for review drew 86W through the PCIE slot. That’s 11W above the maximum 75W specification required to meet compliance..

AMD’s Senior VP and Chief Architect Raja Koduri was a bit puzzled when asked about the rumour. Mostly because PCIE compliance is one of the basic tests before a card goes out. He said that the RX480 passed its testing, but he was taking the reviews seriously..

AMD also points out that the RX480 met ‘Peripheral Component Interconnect Special Interest Group’ (PCI-SIG) compliance testing. So it passed external industry testing ..

But it is weird how this story is being shaped into a “card is broken story”..

It looks like the Nvidia and AMD wars are turning so nasty that it is going to be increasingly difficult to trust any industry deep throats for a while...


Article
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/01/16 08:55 PM

I've seen it in more than one place, but toms was the first one, and they are Pro Intel, they'be been sour on AMD for a while.

The Reviews Likely Screwed w/ Voltages in Wattman before they knew how to use it, as every site said the same thing Wattman is crazy detailed and confusing.

no way the Chip should need more than 1v, my 28nm Lightnings barely need 1.1
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/01/16 09:01 PM

Coincidentally, Sites that Reported the High Power Draw, Also Reported the 85^C Temps and Throttling, as well as lower than other site's scores.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/01/16 09:57 PM

Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/02/16 12:19 AM

I watched it all. He uses Tom's own test report data. Conclusion seems reasonable.

Other cards Tom's has tested behave this way (including popular Nvidia cards). Interesting if Tom's did not make it clear that RX480 behavior is not unique but is one of several that behave in a similar way (I did not see it if they did). Anyhow, no users seem to be reporting failures or issues with those Nvidia cards.

So, if its happening to RX480 too, its very likely not a problem. Remains to be seen whats actually happening, if anything.

Honestly, I'm not the least bit worried.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/02/16 12:41 AM

there was another video i forgot to post...

Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/02/16 10:54 AM

Quote:
We have some good news for those concerned about RX 480 PCI-E issue.

AMD issues an official statement declaring that the overcurrent issue may be resolved with a driver fix soon. We expecting an update from AMD on this driver implementation around Tuesday.

As you know, we continuously tune our GPUs in order to maximize their performance within their given power envelopes and the speed of the memory interface, which in this case is an unprecedented 8 Gbps for GDDR5. Recently, we identified select scenarios where the tuning of some RX 480 boards was not optimal. Fortunately, we can adjust the GPU’s tuning via software in order to resolve this issue. We are already testing a driver that implements a fix, and we will provide an update to the community on our progress on Tuesday (July 5, 2016).


It seems that Tom's (and some other sites) got it right with the card they were given.

Since other make/model cards also do/did it without reported issues, I'm still not worried.

What does bother me is that FedEX moved my RX-480 from California to Texas and back to California just a few miles from where it started -- now, its not arriving until Friday. I very much prefer Amazon Prime's free two day shipping (but, Amazon didn't have the cards). In fairness, Newegg has a "Prime" service also which I used but let lapse because there has not been any reason to upgrade my computers for a couple years.
Posted By: kludger

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/02/16 05:26 PM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
there was another video i forgot to post...



Thanks for posting that, so looks like Crossfire RX480 is faster than SLI GTX970, and better than GTX1070, but below GTX1080.

Good value when compared to SLI GTX970 or a single GTX1080, but seems like a single GTX1070 is the sweet spot compared to two XF GTX480 for people like me who still play a lot of things that aren't DX12.

Great to have the options though.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/02/16 10:54 PM

it looks to match until you get to Higher resolutions, where they just dont have enough umph, even together.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/02/16 10:59 PM

Originally Posted By: Allen
Quote:
We have some good news for those concerned about RX 480 PCI-E issue.

AMD issues an official statement declaring that the overcurrent issue may be resolved with a driver fix soon. We expecting an update from AMD on this driver implementation around Tuesday.

As you know, we continuously tune our GPUs in order to maximize their performance within their given power envelopes and the speed of the memory interface, which in this case is an unprecedented 8 Gbps for GDDR5. Recently, we identified select scenarios where the tuning of some RX 480 boards was not optimal. Fortunately, we can adjust the GPU’s tuning via software in order to resolve this issue. We are already testing a driver that implements a fix, and we will provide an update to the community on our progress on Tuesday (July 5, 2016).


It seems that Tom's (and some other sites) got it right with the card they were given.

Since other make/model cards also do/did it without reported issues, I'm still not worried.

What does bother me is that FedEX moved my RX-480 from California to Texas and back to California just a few miles from where it started -- now, its not arriving until Friday. I very much prefer Amazon Prime's free two day shipping (but, Amazon didn't have the cards). In fairness, Newegg has a "Prime" service also which I used but let lapse because there has not been any reason to upgrade my computers for a couple years.


NewEgg is usually 2 day shipping from NewJersey for me.

I did have one Item get to Richmond, then go back to NJ, then come back, Not sure but I think the Label was damaged, as the label was reprinted and re-applied over top of a partial label (checked by peeling it off) at the NJ UPS Overgoods Warehouse, where Boxes go when the lebels are missing or unreadable.

Like i said, there'd be a driver update to keep the GPU from sucking more power than it needs, watching some videos, it was suckign 1.15/1.2v, it does not need that much, not at 14nm.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/03/16 05:14 PM

errrrmm:
https://www.twitch.tv/buildzoid/v/75850933
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/03/16 05:17 PM

TBH though, Every Review has been of the 8GB Cards, I wanna see the 4GB Power Charts.

I honestly think the 4GB shoulda been a 6-Pin, and the 8 GB shoulda been a 8 Pin.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/03/16 05:54 PM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
...4GB shoulda been a 6-Pin, and the 8 GB shoulda been a 8 Pin.


No argument -- seems very reasonable.

My thought is this.

CrossFireX and SLI use 2, 3, or 4 cards. For each of those GPU cards (up to 4 on a big motherboard), the limit is 75W off the PCIE bus (cards other than GPU have different limits).

If a person is only using one GPU, how bad is it to use say 100 PCIe watts on a bus that supports 2, 3, or 4 x 75 (150, 225, or 300W)? Likewise, if one is using 2 GPU in CrossFireX, how bad is it if those two cards use the power of 3 cards.

Just wondering if this concept is why no-one has reported problems using one of the "over powered" PCIe Bus powered GPUs. That is, there is actually "room to spare" -- particularly if a person only has one or two GPUs plugged into the PCIe Bus.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/03/16 06:57 PM

the power draw isnt sustained,

it's spikes, causing the avg to go above the max power for the slot.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/04/16 02:05 PM

Toying with the idea of switching out the RX-480 reference non-heat-pipe cooler for a custom Sapphire HD5870 heat-pipe cooler. The HD5870 runs at 230W max-measured; so, its heat pipe cooler could be fine for RX-480 (which is set up for 150W TDP).

In looking at "tear down" photos of the RX-480, the cooling attach points and dimensions (relative to cooling) look standard -- just like the HD5970 -- but, when I get the RX-480 (now Friday), we'll see.

I'm taking the HD5870 out of service anyway -- so, I may try the cooler. Its "no extra cost" to me.

Just a thought that others may find useful for a reference RX-480 (use a cooler from an older card) -- if it works for me.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/04/16 03:09 PM

is it the Reference 5870 Cool or Aftermarket One?, I think the reference ones would have fitting issues w/ items underneath the heatsink,
Another thing to consider is weight of cooler, the PCB for the RX480 is actually short.

Other than the 4 mounting holes spacing,
You'd also have to look at the retainer Bracket for the GPU Substrate Package,

ATi had the habit of making the GPU Die Lower than the Retainer just like AMD does now.

So the Cooler would have to have the extruded part to touch the GPU Die, otherwise a copper contact surface without the extruded part would sit 1-2 mm above GPU Die due to Retainer bracket.

Should be 4 Screws for the Alu-Block, and about 10 for the Shroud and fan assembly.

The Twitch Video I posted, the guy tears his down at least 4 times to mod it (add capacitors etc)
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/04/16 04:23 PM

From Fudzilla:

Quote:
Vega 10 is the successor to Polaris and if all goes well you will see the world’s first HBM 2.0 based GPU from the house of AMD – RTG in the first part of 1H 2017, possibly even in Q1 2017.

The timeframe doesn’t come as a great surprise as significant milestones have been reached. ...


And, to repeat the news:

Quote:
...Last week reviews started complain that the Radeon RX 480’s power draw was enough to fry lower priced motherboards.. [initially] only one reviewer had noticed the problem, and it could easily have been a card issue.

But then the reviews started to confirm the problem – the 150-watt card used on average 168W under load...


This could turn out "benign" (as noted above, other cards have had this issue with no problems for users); but, heck, since I bought one, I may have jinxed them. For sure, many custom cards (like Sapphire's with 8 pin power) should have no issue -- the on board power circuits are great -- but really needed an 8 pin connector to fully meet all industry standards (as Skatezilla suggested above) smile
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/04/16 04:41 PM

By time I get the budget, I might as well aim for a Vega GPU w/ my Tax Return,

But I'd get a RX480 for my brother, Retire the 7900 Cards altogether, and save my Lightnings for backup system purposes.

I'd put them back in this system, when I build my Zen Build and move my Vega GPU to that one.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/04/16 04:46 PM

I big blow to Green Team,

the RX-480 Competitor,
GTX1060 Reference Design does not Support SLi on the 3GB Versions,
PCI-6 Pin Connector is integrated w/ Heatsink Shroud and Soldered onto the PCB, So Removing the heatsink shroud would no longer be a simple mod.
Posted By: kludger

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/04/16 08:20 PM

Who would be SLI'ing a 1060 though?

Rare to hear anyone talk of SLI 960 in this gen so I doubt anyone will care if they cant do it in the new get, people who want SLI would go 1070 or 1080 anyways.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/04/16 08:56 PM

Ppl Xfire RX480s, and they are the same performance class.
Posted By: kludger

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/04/16 09:02 PM

The only reason people Xfire 480s is because there's no 1080 competitor... anyone who would SLI two 1060s would just buy one 1070 instead.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/05/16 01:33 AM

Quote:
AMD RX 480 4GB Early Units Have 8GB of GDDR5 Memory, Unlockable Via BIOS Update

Soon after the RX 480 was released some rumors began to surface suggesting that early retails units of the 4GB RX 480 are actually 8GB versions flashed with the 4GB BIOS...


So, if you are one of the lucky folks who found one of the first 4GB RX-480, you may actually have an 8GB unit. But, you need to flash the BIOS. If the 4GB units are really 8GB with a 4GB BIOS, then maybe you will also get the memory speed upgrade.

Article
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/05/16 03:50 AM

Interesting...
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/05/16 10:14 AM

Some Zen CPU and APU news:

Quote:
Exclusive: Comes in 2017

AMD’s CEO Lisa Su said both publicly and to Fudzilla exclusively that its desktop Zen comes first, followed by server, notebook and embedded products. We have some exclusive news about the first Zen based APU that will come with four Zen cores and Polaris graphics.

There will be many versions of the Zen but the one that caught our eyes has four Zen CPU cores and up to 11 GCN cores. This will result with an APU for notebooks as well as embedded systems with up to 704 stream cores...


As we know, Zen is designed to operate much like Intel CPUs. It should be approximately equivalent performance to a same-core-count Intel CPU.

The AMD Zen APU should have superior graphics to Intel CPUs with the same core count. Important because graphics is the usual limitation on cheap PCs and Notebooks. Consequently, AMD Zen APU could become the "go to" chip for those items. We'll see next year.

And, after that:

Quote:
...The real change is expected in later part of 2017 when Intel is expceted to launch its first 10nm Cannonlake processors. As far as Fudzilla is aware, AMD will skip the 10nm and go directly to 7nm after 14nm, but this is another story all together...
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/05/16 02:25 PM

The Jokes online about the Ram Flash is funny, people are posting photoshopped DLC Booster Cards that state "Double Your Ram now", haha
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/05/16 02:32 PM

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-radeon-rx-480-power-measurements,4622.html#xtor=RSS-100
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/05/16 03:39 PM

Thanks for the link.

Though Tom's says RX-480 overdraws current "significantly". They also say that newer PCIe bus implementations on motherboards and GPUs can actually handle more current than the specification (which is out of date with regards to new hardware). So no problem.

But, here are key sentences of Tom's summary:

Quote:
...Current hardware should be able to handle this amount of current without taking any damage..

..We never implied in our launch article that a system made up of solid components might be directly damaged by an AMD Radeon RX 480 graphics card running at stock clock frequencies.

There shouldn’t be any problems unless cheap, dirty or outdated components are used, the card isn’t installed correctly, or the amount of power drawn is increased by overclocking the card...


Like I said above, I'm not worried about my RX-480, yet smile
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/06/16 10:18 AM

Driver to fix RX-480 reference card power draw issue to be out soon.

Quote:
...The company’s new solution baked into the driver to reduce the current drawn from the PCIe slot is meant to address the card’s PCIe power draw directly. Reducing it down to a level below the 75W PCIe slot limit. The optional “Compatibility” profile on the other hand is meant to address the card’s overall power draw, pushing it firmly below the 150W TDP – thermal design power – of the card. Furthermore, AMD is promising to deliver new gaming specific performance optimizations with the new driver. With promised performance improvements of up to 3%.

AMD states that the PCIe slot power draw reduction coming with the new driver is separate from the optional low power “compatibility” profile. Which means that, thankfully, the power draw from the PCIe slot will be reduced upon installing the new 16.7.1 driver. Without affecting the card’s performance and regardless if you opt to use the optional low power profile or not...


New driver improves performance (very slightly) for a couple reasons.

In the mean time, folks have been overclocking RX-480 which increases power use by a lot in some cases. That extra power use has not caused reported power problems. Of course, heavy OC requires better than reference cooling.

My Sapphire reference RX-480 is still on its way to me. I'll see how all this plays out when I test mine smile
Posted By: Bib4Tuna

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/06/16 02:53 PM

From Sapphire's support site - on the select product download list -




490! boing

DDR5? ok... sigh
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/06/16 03:27 PM

the GTX 1060 is only 10% faster in Syntetic benchmarks (Firestrike).

I seriously think that there are more compute units in Polaris, AMD just didnt want to release those right away.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/06/16 03:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Bib4Tuna
From Sapphire's support site - on the select product download list -




490! boing

DDR5? ok... sigh


Looks like a typo, shares the same part # with the nitro 8gb 480, just different revision, nitro being 1, the stock being 0
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/07/16 01:49 AM

My Sapphire Reference RX-480 8GB came.

On paper, ideally it should be roughly 42 percent faster than one of my Sapphire HD7970 OC (factory overclocked). I was expecting somewhere between 30 percent and 50 percent faster (not knowing much about the architecture). In real games and benchmarks, both the CPU and GPU have a role. So, in games I would expect less than 40 percent and down to 0 percent in some cases.

In my tests (3 game settings and 3 benchmarks -- 1440P max settings), I got 0, 29, 35, 18, 38, and 40 percent faster than HD7970 OC. Pretty much like I expected. But, I was hoping to be "pleasantly surprised" with consistently higher numbers than I actually got. I'm rarely "pleasantly surprised" smile

I did not try overclocking, yet. I may. But, overclocking rarely gives me "visible" improvements. I would expect about 7 to 10 percent more with my Reference RX-480 (i.e. approximately 50 percent improvement in that one test).

In a nutshell, to me it was worth buying at the price of $244 (the two HD7970 cost over $700 total). It will slightly improve my game experience on my more graphic intensive GPU limited games -- that do not benefit from CrossFire. However, it does not have "mind boggling" performance (mind boggling would be 50 percent or more faster than HD7970 for the $244 price). Since the RX480 4GB at $200 has nearly the same performance, the RX-480 4GB would approach mind boggling for the price.

This RX-480 was for fun and is a place holder until Vega 10. Then, when I get my Vega, my wife (who just got one of my HD7970) will get the RX-480.

[Edit] A very gentle overclock got that 40 percent number (noted above) to 54 percent. In that sense, RX-480 now performs as well as I could have expected (I expected 50 percent max improved graphics performance).
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/07/16 01:26 PM

It has been verified that many or all of the 4GB RX-480 currently on sale for $200 are actually 8GB cards with a 4GB BIOS. Reflashing the BIOS gets one an 8GB card for $200. The cards are in an 8GB box with a 4GB sticker pasted over the 8GB.

Don't know how long that will last (or if it is already over). I surely would have bought a "4GB" card had I known. One could go to the local store and check the 4GB boxes for the sticker (if one has a local store).

I, of course, make no guarantees. I'm merely reporting what has been written.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/07/16 02:41 PM

They also have Stickers applied to the Heatsink Shroud,

lol, No need to dis-assemble to void warranty, it's obvious by looking at stickers.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/07/16 07:46 PM

The 16.7.1 driver for RX-480 came out. Its supposed to fix power issues with no hit on performance. AMD says up to 3 percent increase in FPS -- of course, the words "up to" allow zero as an outcome.

My 2 tests showed 0.0 and 2.5 percent FPS increase.

Reports indicate power usage down on the PCIe bus -- raised power on 6 pin connector. Net lower power. Moreover, there is a "toggle" (normally off) that lowers power draw to the "PCIe Standard". Over 5 percent FPS increase in one game -- others were less.

So, at first look, it seems like AMD did what they promised. Lower power, can set power all the way down to PCIe Standard, and increased FPS in some cases.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/08/16 12:07 AM

I tried a quick overclock using WattMan (included in the driver package). Before using, look up WattMan on Youtube -- its not intuitive at first. However, once you see the "trick", its not hard -- just click, click, click.

I found that the card tends to NOT run at full rated speed all the time. You can use WattMan to force it to run at full rated speed a larger part of the time (you decide how much larger). That, without overclocking, speeds up the FPS very measurably.

In addition, I tried moving the full-speed from 1265 to 1325MHz (a VERY gentle overclock).

That (higher max clock plus more time at max clock) got me to the hoped for greater than 50 percent better than the HD7970 in the test that previously showed 40 percent better. It was 54 percent better. There was no overheating using the Reference Fan.

The extra FPS were, of course, "measurable" not "visible to the unaided eye".

Just follow up information.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/08/16 12:10 PM

you can prolly undervolt and still overclock the gpu.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/08/16 12:21 PM

https://www.techpowerup.com/223981/amd-releases-pci-express-power-draw-fix-we-tested-confirmed-works
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/08/16 11:33 PM

Quote:
The RX 490 is a dual GPU graphics card
...
All of these things indicate to us that we are looking at a dual GPU solution, probably one based on a full version of Polaris 10...


A ton of "speculation" and a small amount of fact-based "analysis" went into this Rumor.

Could be true. AMD marketing could use a competitor to 1080 (while we await Vega). A dual-GPU RX-490 could compete directly on FPS in benchmarks and some games. As we know, such a card could cost much less than 1080. Moreover, DX12 is implementing support for CrossFire and SLI (which it did not initially).

But, unless AMD is going to try some of its Navi technology sooner than expected, its still just CrossFireX. FWIW, Navi is speculated/rumored to combine multiple GPUs on one card -- such that they act like one GPU (no CrossFire or SLI problems).
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/09/16 02:32 AM

Explicit Multi-Adapter would see both GPUs as one Resource, Both Banks of RAM as Their own, No more mirrored Memory Arrays.

So, a Dual GPU 480 w/ 8GB Total in DX12 EMA Mode would be seen as a 4612 Core GPU with either 8GB or 16 GB of Ram.
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/09/16 06:14 AM

Yet the GTX 1080ti is likely to be announced in August with the 1080 Titan coming at a later stage. Looks like we'll be back in a similar situation whereby Nvidia can trump anything that AMD do and spoil the party.


I hope AMD can release something that truly competes so that Nvidia are forced to evaluate their prices. Lets be honest, it's been a while since we've had a good fight at the top end.
Posted By: Remon

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/09/16 08:59 AM

Originally Posted By: Paradaz
Yet the GTX 1080ti is likely to be announced in August with the 1080 Titan coming at a later stage. Looks like we'll be back in a similar situation whereby Nvidia can trump anything that AMD do and spoil the party.


I hope AMD can release something that truly competes so that Nvidia are forced to evaluate their prices. Lets be honest, it's been a while since we've had a good fight at the top end.



rolleyes
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/09/16 09:29 AM

What are you rolling your eyes at?....you disagree? The point is that even if an RX 490 is competing with a 1080 as Skate and Allen have mentioned....the 1080ti is likely to have another 50% performance (according to leaks) so anyone wanting that single card performance from AMD still won't be challenging at the top level because the 490 will be competing with Nvidia's second tier card.

The 1080 Titan will then be fighting it out with AMDs top end cards with HBM2 - is anyone going to bet at this stage that AMD have it wrapped up? I'm not so confident. Maybe it comes down to whether your allegiance is to a certain brand....I'm certainly not but with VR I need guaranteed performance and good drivers which is something that AMD have struggled with in recent years and they don't currently have a GPU which will push 90fps at 1440p for VR so the choice is already limited. The last AMD card I had was a 290X and in some games the performance was poor in comparison to the Nvidia equivalent (or in the case of DCS and the Oculus DK2 it wouldn't run at all until a workaround was introduced) which ultimately forced my hand down the GTX 970 route.

I'd also waited since half-way through last year to upgrade my GPU ready for the retail Oculus....the RX480 obviously isn't going to cut the mustard in view of getting high frame rates so my options were to wait even longer with no guarantee when we'd have a competitive card or drop silly money on a GTX 1080.
Posted By: Remon

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/09/16 11:34 AM

rolleyes

You again propagate myths. AMD doesn't have bad drivers, at least they're no worse than Nvidias, and the whole trumping by Nvidia whenever AMD releases something. This is some high level fanboying right here. Just wait for the releases.
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/09/16 11:55 AM

It's widely accepted that AMDs drivers in the past haven't been great, they certainly haven't been as regular to keep up with the flow of games. Asd I said I my last card was a 290X about 2 years ago so unless it's drastically improved since then it's perfectly valid - I certainly don't recall AMD offering day 1 driver updates for the latest games but could be mistaken.

Trumping by Nvidia?... well that's fact in terms of performance. You can roll your eyes as much as you want but I'm speaking from experience from owning most of AMDs and Nvidia cards in recent years...buying and selling one level behind the top-end curve - AMD have always released value for money cards which is why I plumped for the 7970 and 290X at the time, however Nvidia have always had the card for pure performance - granted, they have often gone for brute horsepower than efficiency but whether you look to the 290/390 or Fury X of recent years Nvidia have always had an equivalent pushing better frame rates in most games, only the most ardent fanboy would even attempt to argue that.

In terms of current cards I'm going off Skate/Allen's posts above.....the R480 isn't challenging the 1080 and it was never attempting or designed to, however if the 490 is going to be the card to challenge the 1080 as discussed above then it's not going to be challenging top end performance because the 1080Ti is going to push the bar much higher than it is now. There's nothing fanboy about saying that whatsoever, we have no idea what the RX490 or 1080GTX performance will really be but like I said it's a comment based on what the guys above are saying. Perhaps you think the RX490 will have performance above and beyond the current GTX1080?

Sounds like you just want an argument for the sake of it which wouldn't be the first time. Perhaps you need to discuss it further with Skate/Allen because RX490 performance that matches GTX 1080 in a few months time isn't going to get everyone that excited if the 1080Ti is another level above.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/09/16 11:58 AM

I agree AMD is behind Nvidia on "raw maximum FPS" in the highest cost products. For a variety of reasons, its been that way for years.

The main reason may be that being first in FPS (no matter what they have to do to get there) is a cornerstone of Nvidia marketing (at least, that's what they said at one point).

The second reason is that (according to Nvidia engineers who were interviewed years ago), nearly all games are developed on Intel/Nvidia with Nvidia help (though that's changing) -- and Nvidia coders make sure the games run better on Nvidia -- they say its relatively easy (given their access to the game engine).

Nowadays, there's more to a graphics card than raw FPS. In providing those "other" things, AMD can be competitive and even slightly ahead. Moreover, smaller differences in FPS (say 10 percent) are not "visible"; those are for advertising/marketing purposes.

My prediction, that I have made before, is that Nvidia will usually be ahead on FPS for a given price range. If not, something went terribly wrong at Nvidia. AMD wants to win at FPS. But, they have said they will not compromise their product approach just to get that win.

Since Vega10 is still in development, and AMD knows the competition, Vega10 may temporarily lead in FPS when it is released.

Navi is a new ballgame. Since AMD GPU architecture has been aiming towards a Navi solution for a while, AMD migh actually beat out Nvidia with Navi -- and Nvidia may take a while to catch up (and surpass) AMD on that one. However, I imagine Nvidia is already "designing" to beat Navi -- so, we'll see smile

Competition is good smile
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/09/16 12:11 PM

Totally agree with the above however it's largely irrelevant why or what makes one card faster or better than the other.

As we're all aware AMD have had the better technology and hardware implementation in recent years but the problem is as gamers we can only play what the developers have implemented and regardless of whether Nvidia are using dirty tricks or throwing their money around it has meant that Nvidia has edged peformance.

Buying a GPU at this moment in time means for me at least with VR as I've already mentioned was not a difficult decision, simply because AMD isn't competing. I do find from some of the posts in this thread there is almost a 'hope' that developers switch from the Nvidia collaborations over to AMD based on market share of the audience or the association of current consoles using the same APIs and libraries but until that happens Nvidia still have that performance edge and in my opinion it's a bit of gamble assuming that AMD will actually pull this off.

We can only go on current games at the moment, and there are nowhere near enough DX12 or gaming utilising Async Compute to determine that AMD are or have closed the performance gap. What if the devs that have used Hairworks etc in the past continue to do so?....it will mean that regardless of AMD still having these quality GPUs are still going to be struggling to match performance within games.

Originally Posted By: "Allen"
AMD wants to win at FPS. But, they have said they will not compromise their product approach just to get that win.


I think the quote above is probably key, but the problem is that Nvidia are prepared to do whatever it takes to ensure they have the best performer regardless of how they get there.

Competition is most definitely good and desperately needed for us as consumers.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/09/16 12:14 PM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
you can prolly undervolt and still overclock the gpu.


Seems true.

Using WattMan, I reduced voltage (microscopically), reduced allowable GPU temperature 5C, and increased allowable power draw 20 percent -- while setting the max clock to 1300GHz (from 1266).

Now, a card that cycled between roughly 1150+ to 1260 runs almost constantly at 1300 (during a game) and runs cooler.

The 4GB RX-480 is looking better and better for the money (on paper). So far, nothing I've run has used more than 2GB of RX-480 RAM. I assumed the 8GB RAM was overkill -- so far, it is -- 4GB seems enough (at least for 1440p in my recent games).
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/09/16 12:20 PM

Originally Posted By: Allen

The 4GB RX-480 is looking better and better for the money (on paper). So far, nothing I've run has used more than 2GB of RX-480 RAM. I assumed the 8GB RAM was overkill -- so far, it is -- 4GB seems enough (at least for 1440p in my recent games).


It might be better to state what games you're playing. What works for one person or a particular game will be wildly different for someone else playing other games. A lot of people play Arma 3 on these forums and that often goes above 4GB VRAM at high settings/+600 draw distance. Quite a few recent titles use lots of VRAM too.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/09/16 12:29 PM

Originally Posted By: Paradaz
...it's largely irrelevant why or what makes one card faster or better than the other.

As we're all aware AMD have had the better technology and hardware implementation in recent years but the problem is as gamers we can only play what the developers have implemented and regardless of whether Nvidia are using dirty tricks or throwing their money around it has meant that Nvidia has edged peformance....


We see things similarly -- particularly what drives a most current customers to consider Nvidia over AMD. So long as Intel and Nvidia greatly outsell AMD, those two will control what gets implemented in games. In some way, its amazing that AMD (being an "outsider" with little way to influence the process) competes as well as it does.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/09/16 12:35 PM

Regarding RAM size and RX-480 4GB:

The price competitive Nvidia 1060 3GB has only 3GB. So, maybe for a few people the corresponding RX-480 4GB wins that one smile
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/09/16 01:14 PM

Regarding the comment about "my" gaming experiences not encompassing all gaming experiences:

I agree. My reports on what I do with my system and how it works are NOT to be considered "gospel". The next person may experience something different depending on their games or PC hardware.

Folks should base their purchase decisions on "official test reports" from the sites that do that "for a living".

I post abbreviated versions of my experiences merely to indicate that I am "an actively involved customer" who is "paying attention" to what is going on in the industry today. And, also, to give prospective CPU/GPU buyers some things to consider when they read the test reports.

I've posted a lot lately. It was "pent up" as I waited for two years for a new AMD product to buy. A month or two from now, I'll probably be "back in hibernation" as I await the "next big thing" from AMD smile

Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/09/16 02:45 PM

Originally Posted By: Allen
Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
you can prolly undervolt and still overclock the gpu.


Seems true.

Using WattMan, I reduced voltage (microscopically), reduced allowable GPU temperature 5C, and increased allowable power draw 20 percent -- while setting the max clock to 1300GHz (from 1266).

Now, a card that cycled between roughly 1150+ to 1260 runs almost constantly at 1300 (during a game) and runs cooler.

The 4GB RX-480 is looking better and better for the money (on paper). So far, nothing I've run has used more than 2GB of RX-480 RAM. I assumed the 8GB RAM was overkill -- so far, it is -- 4GB seems enough (at least for 1440p in my recent games).



All us AMD Enthusiasts on another forum have been plugging away, even after the reviews saying the complete opposite of AiB Lab techs in regards to Overclocking.


So Far, they've gotten better overclocking by Undervolting the GPU.

The Reviews Power Draw numbers during benchmarks etc had us all looking at each other, why a 14nm Chip would require a 1150-1225mv to sustain 1200MHz....

Then when they tried to overclock the thing, they already had too much voltaqge going to the chip, causing more heat than needed, so of course the thing wouldnt overclock stable, it already had a too much mv going through it, and when they overclocked it, they pumped even more into it.

Some of the reviewers had a higher mV going to that lil GPU than I did going to my Lightnings (28nm Gen 1 7970s)


One Guy actually Undervolted and flashed the 4GB BIOS to his to disable 4GB of the Power Hungry Ram until he actually has a need for it.

And is running 1450Mhz on the GPU w/ stock cooling and staying under 70^c
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/09/16 10:39 PM

Based on what you said just above, I tried some more overclocking experiments. I did not do so good a job that I would "stand behind" my results. But, the results were interesting.

In a nutshell: For a given Frequency (MHz), there is an ideal maximum voltage and an ideal maximum power setting. That is: More power or less power gives LOWER FPS. More voltage or less voltage gives LOWER FPS. We're only talking 1 or 2 FPS -- say the difference between 55FPS and 57FPS (in my limited tests).

Lower maximum voltage and lower maximum Power (above normal power) generally do lead to higher FPS in the range I tested (until one hits the optimum).

Lower voltage and lower maximum power lead to much lower temperatures.

In other words, setting maximum over power (50 percent) and maximum volts (approximately 1.175) will make things hot, but may not give maximum FPS.

Right now, I'm running at 1315GHz maximum, 1.100V maximum, 20% over nominal power -- very conservative -- not trying to set records. This gives me almost 50 percent more FPS (at most) than I got with my HD7970.
Posted By: Remon

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/10/16 10:58 AM

Originally Posted By: Paradaz
It's widely accepted that AMDs drivers in the past haven't been great, they certainly haven't been as regular to keep up with the flow of games. Asd I said I my last card was a 290X about 2 years ago so unless it's drastically improved since then it's perfectly valid - I certainly don't recall AMD offering day 1 driver updates for the latest games but could be mistaken.

Trumping by Nvidia?... well that's fact in terms of performance. You can roll your eyes as much as you want but I'm speaking from experience from owning most of AMDs and Nvidia cards in recent years...buying and selling one level behind the top-end curve - AMD have always released value for money cards which is why I plumped for the 7970 and 290X at the time, however Nvidia have always had the card for pure performance - granted, they have often gone for brute horsepower than efficiency but whether you look to the 290/390 or Fury X of recent years Nvidia have always had an equivalent pushing better frame rates in most games, only the most ardent fanboy would even attempt to argue that.

In terms of current cards I'm going off Skate/Allen's posts above.....the R480 isn't challenging the 1080 and it was never attempting or designed to, however if the 490 is going to be the card to challenge the 1080 as discussed above then it's not going to be challenging top end performance because the 1080Ti is going to push the bar much higher than it is now. There's nothing fanboy about saying that whatsoever, we have no idea what the RX490 or 1080GTX performance will really be but like I said it's a comment based on what the guys above are saying. Perhaps you think the RX490 will have performance above and beyond the current GTX1080?

Sounds like you just want an argument for the sake of it which wouldn't be the first time. Perhaps you need to discuss it further with Skate/Allen because RX490 performance that matches GTX 1080 in a few months time isn't going to get everyone that excited if the 1080Ti is another level above.




What is widely accepted and what is true is two completely different things. Day 1 drivers aren't as important as drivers that don't burn your cards.

As for your value for money argument, I think you're misremembering things, the 7970 ghz was better than the 680 and the 7970 equal to the 670, they were the top cards of their generation. Nvidia releasing better cards right after AMD releases only happened with the 780ti (and this wasn't that much better than the 7970 ghz) and the 980ti, and I would hardly call that a tradition.

Quote:
but whether you look to the 290/390 or Fury X of recent years


Well, that is recent years. The 290/390 and Fury X are recent years, you don't have other examples other than those.

As for who wants the argument or not, well, your posts talk for themselves. I told you one thing, wait for the benchmarks.
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/10/16 11:58 AM

Originally Posted By: Remon


As for your value for money argument, I think you're misremembering things, the 7970 ghz was better than the 680 and the 7970 equal to the 670, they were the top cards of their generation. Nvidia releasing better cards right after AMD releases only happened with the 780ti (and this wasn't that much better than the 7970 ghz) and the 980ti, and I would hardly call that a tradition.


Are you looking at someone else's post?...disregarding all the nonsense in your post above the only point where I even bring up 'value for money' is where I stated that AMD have always released value for money GPUs. Value for money however doesn't always equal performance and the RX480 is a great example of that......$199-$249 is brilliant value for money if budget is one of your major concerns for the power it brings, but not if you're trying to drive the latest games at max settings with a 1440p monitor or targeting 90fps with a VR headset then it doesn't matter what bang for buck you're getting because it wouldn't be up to the job. It's all relative.

You just lost all credability by stating that the 780ti wasn't much better than the 7970 GHz... It probably depends on what your definition of 'close' is because the 780ti was competing with and beating the 290X.

Posted By: Remon

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/10/16 12:56 PM

Quote:
You just lost all credability by stating that the 780ti wasn't much better than the 7970 GHz... It probably depends on what your definition of 'close' is because the 780ti was competing and beating the 290X.


Meant to say 290x. I think it's clear it was a mistake.

Quote:
disregarding all the nonsense in your post above the only point where I even bring up 'value for money' is where I stated that AMD have always released value for money GPUs. Value for money however doesn't always equal performance and the RX480 is a great example of that


Do you really want to continue with this stupid argument? No, AMD doesn't always release value for money cards. The 7970ghz wasn't value for money, it cost the same as the 680, the normal 7970 released even higher priced.
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/10/16 02:38 PM

Originally Posted By: Remon
Do you really want to continue with this stupid argument? No, AMD doesn't always release value for money cards. The 7970ghz wasn't value for money, it cost the same as the 680, the normal 7970 released even higher priced.


You've just answered the point that you're arguing yourself......the 7970GHz cost the same as the 680 (and often came in cheaper) yet it was more efficient and had the slight edge and therefore better bang for buck. This is the same reason why I and many others bought the 7970 GHz over the competing Nvidia card at the time. The 7970 released 6 months before that...of course it was going to be priced higher on release.

Everyone's mileage of 'value for money' may vary but we're talking about equivalent AMD and Nvidia cards here. The 7970 GHz was a no brainer as were the 290X which clocked past the 390 and into 390X territory for much less money in comparison to competing Nvidia cards. It was only when the 780ti came along and then the GTX 970 that Nvidia trumped these cards by a good margin.

Like I said, you're arguing for argument sake and making silly mistakes along the way. Who would guess you were talking about the 290X earlier when you mentioned the 7970GHz. You've been talking nonsense for a few posts now.

Posted By: Remon

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/10/16 03:50 PM

No. Value for money is a condescending term that people like to throw around for AMD, because it makes them sound cheap. You use it that way, since I haven't seen you use it to describe 970, for example.

Look, if I liked to argue for the sake of argument I would make meaningless long ass posts repeating the same over and over. I'm not the one doing that. Anyway, I'll show you who's doing this for the sake of argument by doing something you can't do. I won't be answering any more of your posts.
Posted By: Remon

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/10/16 04:07 PM

It looks like the 1060 isn't as close to 980 as Nvidia claims.

http://videocardz.com/62086/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1060-rumors-part-5-full-specs-2-0-ghz-overclocking

The 480 paired with a worse CPU beats it, by a good margin.

The article isn't exactly unbiased too, they claim that in OpenCL the 1060 is better than the 970 and the 480, but the picture they use has it losing to the 480 in 5 out of 7 tests. OpenCL is of course AMDs field, but it is much closer to the 970 (even losing to it once) than the 980.



Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/10/16 04:39 PM

sleepysleepysleepy

Originally Posted By: Remon
No. Value for money is a condescending term that people like to throw around for AMD, because it makes them sound cheap. You use it that way, since I haven't seen you use it to describe 970, for example.


Don't be daft, many people talk about 'value for money' and 'bang for buck'....it means exactly that. I don't care who manufactures a GPU, I make a choice based on performance, cost or both depending on my needs at the time and over the years that has switched between AMD and Nvidia depending on which particular card fits best. Value for money has come into these decisions on a number of occasions....and yes, I'd say AMD has won the 'value for money' trophy on a number of occasions because Nvidia is often a complete rip-off.

Originally Posted By: Remon
Anyway, I'll show you who's doing this for the sake of argument by doing something you can't do. I won't be answering any more of your posts.


I tend not to answer my own posts anyway so it's not an issue. thumbsup

As for your RX480 and GTX 1060 comparison.....have you got anything that's actually meaningful given this is a gaming/simulation website? Perhaps you should wait for some valid benchmarking - in current games for example. winkngrin That's rhetoric obviously....I know you won't be replying so I'll wait for someone who knows what they're talking about to provide the links when they become available.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/11/16 05:07 PM

My neighbor scored a RX-480 4GB for $159 locally, I asked him to snag me one, but he went back and the rest (4 or 5) were already gone.
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/11/16 05:21 PM

He should have bought the lot that price on the first visit!
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/11/16 06:00 PM

he couldnt afford it on his own, had to come pick me up, I went back with him to buy at least 2, all gone.
Posted By: Remon

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/11/16 08:43 PM

Doom released the Vulkan patch, AMD cards getting a huge bump in performance.

http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/new_patch_brings_vulkan_support_to_doom.html
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/12/16 03:23 PM

https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/sapphire-radeon-rx-480-nitro.html?sf30772985=1
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/12/16 03:51 PM

Interesting.

They're showing 1317MHz max boost with a custom cooler and custom main-board.

Since last posting on my speed, I've settled on 1320MHz "virtually" full time in games and benchmarks. At reduced voltage it runs cooler than it did "as received".

However, at only $10 more than I paid, getting the boost "as received", advanced cooler, custom motherboard, and an 8 pin connector seems well worth it. It should overclock higher than mine and run quieter and safer.

Nonetheless, a 10 percent overclock FPS boost will not normally be "visible" only "measurable". So, it would have to get into the the 1450MHz range to even start to make a difference that one might "see" in special cases (vs my 1320).

Now, the RX-480 4GB at $159 your friend found seems "unbeatable bang for buck" smile
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/12/16 05:54 PM

http://hexus.net/tech/news/graphics/9445...medium=facebook
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/14/16 04:33 PM

AMD is now working directly with developers to build DX12 Renderers with full support for EMA and ASC.

Basically making Dual Rx470s in EMA relevant.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/15/16 03:49 AM

I got 3DMark Time Spy DX12 free version (I own full DX11 Firestrike). Ran it on RX-480. It runs automatically at 1440p.

I got good, visibly-smooth frame rates with the demo and first graphics test. The second graphics test was smooth to almost smooth most of the time -- down to 10fps occasionally. The CPU test gave smooth frame rates.

The exact numbers mean little to others as we all have different systems. However, Time Spy benchmark is reported to have "far more" complexity than Firestrike -- and uses advanced GPU features. So, all in all, the DX12 visible performance of my RX-480 was mostly "very good to usable" in the benchmark. I assume the benchmark is tougher than a game -- I'll see eventually.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/15/16 03:01 PM

Civ 6 and Ashes of Singularity are DX12,

As is Forza 6 APEX (Free on Windows 10)
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/22/16 06:28 PM

http://hexus.net/tech/news/graphics/94888-sapphire-nitro-rx-480-launched/
Posted By: Bib4Tuna

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/22/16 06:34 PM




But not available in the US yet, so meh!
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/23/16 02:12 PM

Quote:
AMD Expects Limited Zen CPU Shipments in Q4 2016 – Full Volume Launch in Q1 2017

The AMD Zen based FX processors are highly anticipated by enthusiasts and gamers around the globe as these chips will bring the performance of CPU on par with Intel’s latest processors at very affordable rates...

"We have been very focused on the server launch for first half of 2017. Desktop should launch before that. In terms of true volume ability, I believe it will be in the first quarter of 2017. We may ship some limited volume towards the end of the fourth quarter, based on how bring up goes and the customer readiness." Lisa Su, AMD CEO via AMD
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/23/16 03:14 PM

IM hearing October from a bunch of review guys.
Posted By: BlueHeron

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/24/16 01:36 AM

October - I wish! My old Phenom II is barely carrying today's load. I'm hoping some OC'ing and a new RX 480 will squeeze out some descent performance for a little longer, but I know VR is out of the question until I get a Zen running. smile
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/26/16 02:17 PM

I wanna Polaris-Pro GPU w/ a 1TB SSD on it :-(
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/26/16 11:04 PM

Nintendo Finally Confirms they went Green Team,

Doesn't Affect AMD's Masterplan, as it's in the ARM Division,

Games Developed for NX will not port to x86, and most of the time games developed for Nintendo never port to other consoles.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/27/16 12:35 AM

I would not be surprised if Nvidia "made them an offer they could not refuse" to get a chunk of the console business. Parenthetically, that's what Intel did early in this Century when AMD had the better CPU -- Intel "bought" the market.

If Nvidia were shut out of consoles, it would look bad for Nvidia's brand.

We'll see how well Nvidia's total package turns out. Their GPUs are first rate. But, the CPU side of the war has been a losing battle for them (in tablets, phones), so far. And, I have an Nvidia powered high-end tablet -- first hand experience that says -- buy AMD if you need a CPU/GPU (APU) solution.

However, they might do it right this time.

Competition is good smile
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 07/27/16 02:29 PM

the NX will be a Portable Console, so No Where near the power of Xbox One, Xbox Scorpio, PS4, PS4K, etc.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/01/16 10:20 AM

Rumoring that Intel to have 10nm parts in 2017 to replace current 14nm high end parts. 10nm costs less per transistor.

Also, rumoring that 7nm may be the "wall" and possibly nothing significantly smaller will be practical. I personally was "guessing" 3 to 4nm as the final wall that will not be breached.

The "wall" means no more dramatically significant "per core" improvements in CPUs.

Quote:
Cannonlake processors on track as Intel starts up 10nm factory

... The company will be starting up the 10nm factory this quarter..should enter into trial production later this year and should be able to ramp up to volume production by the end of 1H 2017.

..Intel managed to keep its node lead over other third party fabrication facilities like TSMC and Samsung.

..now the only major problem remains beating physics every time. At 7nm and below physics breaks down pretty quickly and quantum physics effects start becoming a serious problem...
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/01/16 11:26 AM

by 2020, CPUs will stop getting smaller, and they will work on ways to stack the cores instead of shrinking them.
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/01/16 01:24 PM

We'll have to switch from electricity to quarktricity or something to go smaller.



The Jedi Master
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/09/16 03:12 PM

If you're interested in getting a RX-480, even a Partner AIB Solution,

Get the 4GB Version regardless,

the 8GB Versions of these cards use too much power, even when re-designed VRM Arrays are used.

the < 150w Number was for the 4 GB Versions, the 8 GB Versions use more power.

Also, the 8GB Models are pretty much pointless,


Example, I've worked with now 5 guys, that use RX480s because of PRICE:PERFORMANCE.

They all bought the 4GB Version, which was 8GB Versions re-flashed, (the 4GB Sticker on the 8 GB on Box and Card were dead givaways).

So we tested extensively.

with any game that used Texture Resolutions high enough to fill more than 5GB of the RAM.

The GPU itself didnt have the Umph to render the game efficiently w/ MSAA Cranked or Ultra high textures loaded into the frame buffers.

While having 8 GB is future proofing sort of...... The GPU itself dont have the umph to render games that would use all 8GB efficiently.

It's like attaching a Cargo Trailer to a Honda Civic.


If you want FSAA Cranked w/ Ultra hi Res Textures, shadows, AO etc get a GTX1070/80 or wait for the AMD Equiv this fall.

Depending on how long of a delay that is, I have been looking at ever falling AMD Fury/FuryX Card Prices... Droooling.. as I can Get a FuryX for $299 ($399 - $100 in Coupon Codes/MIR/Un-Used Credit)
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/09/16 06:34 PM

Agree -- and I own an RX-480 8GB. I'm not upset about it. Mine works fine.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/09/16 07:19 PM

Flash it down to 4GB, Save Power Consumption/Heat and see no performance impact.
Posted By: kludger

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/09/16 08:29 PM

The 8GB situation sounds similar to the GTX 970 fiasco, where 4GB turned out to be 3GB fast and 1GB slow/useless memory, much ado about nothing, as it turns out the card kicked butt and I've never had any issues with that slow 1GB memory, so it really only mattered for the fanboy arguments and the class action lawsuit... I'll take the $30 refund though.
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/10/16 02:46 PM

Actually it's 3.5GB/.5GB, not 3/1, so the odds of you needing more than 3.5 but less than 4 (at which point it will slow down anyway) is fairly slim. Still, performance at 3.75 is better than at 4.25, it's a middle ground.

They could've easily just sold them as 3.5GB cards but it would've taken marketing effort to explain that to the uninitiated and that extra .5 as I mentioned does offer a benefit over being forced out to main RAM.



The Jedi Master
Posted By: kludger

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/10/16 03:32 PM

Ah yeah that's right, hopefully the marketing guys learn a lesson, but I somehow doubt it.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/10/16 03:46 PM

nVidia's issue was the memory controller on the GPU after they disabled SMs, didnt allow for straight access to the entire 4 GB Memory Array, so it was divided into 2 partitions w/ 3.5 being the main one with direct Access and the 2nd one accessible via alternate controller.

they shoulda just made it 3.5 gb, woulda saved them problems, users problems, lawyers problems, and saved them production money on removing 1 GDDR5 Chip from each PCB and the aforementioned extra controller.


AMD's issue is they slapped 8 GB on a Card that cant run games w/ texture or frame resolutions high enough to use that 8 GB.

Like I Said, it's like trying to attach a Cargo Trailer to a Honda Civic.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/11/16 05:52 PM

Presumably, the first Zen CPU benchmark number has "leaked". This benchmark score is for an Engineering Sample. We don't know what the clock speed of the final version will be.

At the clocks shown, its competitive with Intel. However, the details of the tests are unknown. So, though encouraging to an AMD fan, only time will tell.

Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/11/16 07:40 PM

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/233...over-piledriver
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/11/16 07:46 PM

Encouraging if true with no tricks to influence results. Especially at lower clock speeds than the Haswells. Still, it's puzzling why they didn't bench against Skylakes or at least Broadwells. The 4670k is 3 yrs old, 4790 is 2.




The Jedi Master
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/11/16 08:28 PM

So a Beta Version of the Chip is already living up to the Hype.

I'm gonna dig and see if I cant get specs on the Eng. Sample Model Number.

Pretty sure it's under clocked vs what the retail is suppose to be.

I wish a CPU from Intel w/ 8C/16T was on there, as it would be a more direct comparison when you adjust for clock difference.


But if you wanna go on Performance Per GHz

Turbo Clocks:
i7-4790k (3.6/4.0 Ghz) 65.4/100-6.54/4.0 =.1635
Zen ES-1D (2.8/3.2 GHz) 58.0/100-5.80/3.2 = .18125
i5-4670k (3.4/3.8 GHz) 52.6/100-5.26/3.8= .13842
FX-8350 (4.0/4.2 GHz) 42.0/100-4.20/4.2= .100

Or:
Zen ES-1D (2.8/3.2 GHz) 58.0/100-5.80/3.2 = .18125
i7-4790k (3.6/4.0 Ghz) 65.4/100-6.54/4.0 =.16350 -9.753%
i5-4670k (3.4/3.8 GHz) 52.6/100-5.26/3.8= .13842 -23.63%
FX-8350 (4.0/4.2 GHz) 42.0/100-4.20/4.2= .10000 -44.827

Base Clocks:
i7-4790k (3.6/4.0 Ghz) 65.4/100-6.54/3.6 =.18166
Zen ES-1D (2.8/3.2 GHz) 58.0/100-5.80/2.8 = .20714
i5-4670k (3.4/3.8 GHz) 52.6/100-5.26/3.4= .15470
FX-8350 (4.0/4.2 GHz) 42.0/100-4.20/4.0= .1050

Or:
Zen ES-1D (2.8/3.2 GHz) 58.0/100-5.80/2.8 = .20714
i7-4790k (3.6/4.0 Ghz) 65.4/100-6.54/3.6 =.18166 -12.30%
i5-4670k (3.4/3.8 GHz) 52.6/100-5.26/3.4= .15470 -25.31%
FX-8350 (4.0/4.2 GHz) 42.0/100-4.20/4.0= .1050 -49.30%
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/12/16 06:32 PM

http://hothardware.com/news/nvidia-record-earnings-143-billion-strong-demand-for-pascal
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/12/16 07:08 PM

Another thing to consider,
Prices of 390/X Cards are dropping a bit, if Power isnt an issue, and 8 GB 390X w/ 3rd Party Cooling for the same price ($250-$280) is well worth it, and it will have the power and memory bus to use all 8GB without a problem.


I may hold off till tax return time to build my Zen Rig.

But My brother's rig has been handicapped for months now since his AiO Cooler pump failed and the FX 8 Core became cemented to the water block and cracked and likely pulled some pins off when removing it, we used his old Phenom X2 Spare because I had no budget to buy a new one.

He may or Maynot get my FX8350, but I'll likely keep my current system w/ 1x MSI Lightning for studio stuff, so I wont have to re-activate everything (3Ds max, Vegas, etc etc).

New Rig will be Zen CPU Hopefully (at least 8c/16t), DDR4 (24+GB), and a fairly decent GPU (Vega Likely)

1 Screen + Oculus + Windows 10 to Run Xbox One Cross Buy Titles.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/12/16 07:42 PM

Like you, I'm still waiting for Zen, Vega (the RX-480 was a "quick fix" -- like a drug for my AMD fandom).

I just gave my Grandson my older FX8350 gaming rig (that was operational but little used). He's in college and needed a desktop capable of good graphics for his Architecture courses. I think it will serve a greater purpose with him than me. So, I do see the merit of giving family the older stuff (that's still useful).
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/13/16 10:06 PM

RX-470 Benchmarks are like 2% Slower (4-7 FPS) in Games Avveraging 65-75 FPS on RX-480 and R9-390s



Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/16/16 12:33 PM

Minor rumor/speculation that Vega will NOT be a bigger Polaris/RX-480. Rather, its probably a new architecture. Rumor indicated that its still months from release.

Quote:
...The just launched Polaris based RX 400 series products are based on the company’s 4th generation GCN architecture. According to several filed patents and some very interesting leaks via AMD’s engineering staff VEGA is based on a brand new iteration of GCN...
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/16/16 02:29 PM

O_o?

Im still looking at this expanded AMD Engineering Sample Benchmark that they "Theorized" the performance levels based off the One slide from wccf tech.

And Im just wondering if they made their BIAS Obvious enough by having every Intel Chip still spanking the Zen ES by a Pretty large margin, and Even Losing to the FX8350 on some.

And people are going to assume the charts are legit and bash AMD.
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/16/16 05:53 PM

But even on the benchmark scores you posted, you have to wonder why 2 year old Intel chips are being compared?
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/16/16 06:51 PM

they are well past the ES Phase, the one chart is prolly months old or 100% fake..
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/18/16 12:50 AM

Another lengthy Rumor/Speculation article about AMD Zen CPU (possibly out late 2016 in small quantity).

Basically, for example, Zen doubles FX8350 performance in a relevant CPU performance benchmark -- even though Zen clocks are slower.

Thing is, these articles are not crystal clear about what is being compared to what. The new Zen handles twice the threads as FX8350/FX9590. Its not clear if the huge Zen advantage is per core, or per thread, or per chip (twice the threads).

So, I'll remain cautious until more concretely clear and beyond question Zen data is available. Right now, I'm not exactly thrilled with what I read -- the only concrete data is that initial Zen engineering samples run much slower clocks than my FX9590.

Article
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/18/16 01:08 PM

Intel Core i7-6900K 20M Broadwell-E 8-Core 3.2 GHz is $1100 at Newegg today.

AMD presented a one-to-one comparison to Zen 8-core 3.0GHz with i7-6900 set to 3.0GHz.

Quote:
...AMD wanted to show that it has a dog in the race. .

AMD can clock its CPU to at least 3GHz and beat Intel’s Core i7-6900K de-clocked to 3.0GHz in at least one benchmark. This tells you just part of the story, as there are many question about Zen performance remain unanswered. AMD has said that the desktop part will ship before the end of the year so read late Q4 2016.

AMD stresses that it has achieved 40 per cent Instruction Per Clock improvement compared to Excavator core and this strategy was one of the foundations of Zen strategy..

On paper AMD looks good, and let’s hope AMD will have a good launch. The PC industry needs AMD to finally give Intel run for its money. Bring the competition back.


Article
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/18/16 02:44 PM

Im like a kid... "Are we there yet?"... lol..
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/18/16 02:56 PM

https://www.techpowerup.com/225129/amd-demos-breakthrough-performance-of-the-zen-cpu-core
Posted By: Brun

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/18/16 04:54 PM

"AMD can clock its CPU to at least 3GHz and beat Intel’s Core i7-6900K de-clocked to 3.0GHz in at least one benchmark"

I can beat Usain Bolt in the 100m if his shoe laces are tied together.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/18/16 08:48 PM

Originally Posted By: Brun
"AMD can clock its CPU to at least 3GHz and beat Intel’s Core i7-6900K de-clocked to 3.0GHz in at least one benchmark"

I can beat Usain Bolt in the 100m if his shoe laces are tied together.


That means Clock for Clock AMD can Match the Intel Counterpart.
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/18/16 09:01 PM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
That means Clock for Clock AMD can Match the Intel Counterpart.


But possibly with the caveat that is correct......but only up to 3Ghz clock speed (in at least one benchmark) , otherwise why would they be so selective?
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/19/16 04:55 AM

they are running engineering samples,

The final revisions will jave higher clocks.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/19/16 10:17 AM

An article that "bubbles with enthusiasm" for AMD -- written by a usually "clear headed" group.

Quote:
...On June 1 2016 AMD was trading at $4.43 and yesterday the company closed at $7.04. Back on January 20th, AMD was trading for $1.8. If you do a quick sum, someone who bought AMD at $1.8 has gained 391 percent in seven months.

It looks like that things are going to get even better. After the Zen demo presentation we had a chance to get a quote from Patrick Moorhead president & principal analyst of Moor insights & strategy.

"What AMD showed about Zen last night was very compelling on performance. AMD said that power would be competitive, The frequencies we saw will be even higher at production, and will scale..."


Article
Posted By: Aeronautico

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/19/16 10:51 AM

Quote:
someone who bought AMD at $1.8 has gained 391 percent in seven months


Unfortunately, only 291%. I know, I am one. wink
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/19/16 11:16 AM

Originally Posted By: Aeronautico
Quote:
someone who bought AMD at $1.8 has gained 391 percent in seven months


Unfortunately, only 291%. I know, I am one. wink


You "put your money where my mouth is" smile

Glad to see it "paying off" thumbsup

By the way, I'm not implying that I had anything to do with your "good investment sense" -- that's "on you".
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/19/16 02:02 PM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
they are running engineering samples,

The final revisions will jave higher clocks.


Wasn't there a time when AMD released CPUs with higher clocks than Intel's CPUs?

I don't recall anyone underclocking the AMDs to match the Intel for benchmarks. The whole point was always that Intel and AMD did things differently "under the hood" and clock speed was no longer a reliable marker.
No one talks about GPU clock speeds after all except within a current generation, when the next comes out it's understood and accepted they could be much faster or slower but still offer better performance.

Or to put it another way: What's the point? A benchmark of an engineering sample, not running at final speeds, against an outdated Intel production CPU... It's just numbers juggling.

Might as well talk about the benefits of the 2017 Toyota Tacoma by claiming it has more cup holders than a 2005 F-150--assuming that they don't change that by the time the 2017s hit the dealers, of course!

Perhaps they think it's clever, but I see it as another AMD marketing misstep. There are two sides to a business. You need to make a competitive product/service profitably, and then you need to convince customers of that fact.

Regardless of their technical merits, I think AMD has been SERIOUSLY struggling with their marketing in recent years. Intel hasn't had to do much marketing lately, but nvidia has done very well on that score and Apple could sell a 286 in a shoe box to their customers and they'd pay $1500 for it.
AMD couldn't sell a warp drive to Elon Musk for $100.

Seriously, whoever AMD's PR team/firm is they need to be fired. Actually, they need to lose their jobs and be barred from ever holding a marketing position again. With this level of incompetence they should only be qualified for gov't jobs.




The Jedi Master
Posted By: Aeronautico

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/19/16 02:16 PM

Originally Posted By: Allen
By the way, I'm not implying that I had anything to do with your "good investment sense" -- that's "on you".

To be honest, the investment is still "good" but not that good: I jumped in in July 2015 at US$ 2.03... but I can't complain. hahaha
Up today another 7%+ by the way. yep
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/19/16 02:26 PM

Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
they are running engineering samples,

The final revisions will jave higher clocks.


Wasn't there a time when AMD released CPUs with higher clocks than Intel's CPUs?

I don't recall anyone underclocking the AMDs to match the Intel for benchmarks. The whole point was always that Intel and AMD did things differently "under the hood" and clock speed was no longer a reliable marker.
No one talks about GPU clock speeds after all except within a current generation, when the next comes out it's understood and accepted they could be much faster or slower but still offer better performance.

Or to put it another way: What's the point? A benchmark of an engineering sample, not running at final speeds, against an outdated Intel production CPU... It's just numbers juggling.

Might as well talk about the benefits of the 2017 Toyota Tacoma by claiming it has more cup holders than a 2005 F-150--assuming that they don't change that by the time the 2017s hit the dealers, of course!

Perhaps they think it's clever, but I see it as another AMD marketing misstep. There are two sides to a business. You need to make a competitive product/service profitably, and then you need to convince customers of that fact.

Regardless of their technical merits, I think AMD has been SERIOUSLY struggling with their marketing in recent years. Intel hasn't had to do much marketing lately, but nvidia has done very well on that score and Apple could sell a 286 in a shoe box to their customers and they'd pay $1500 for it.
AMD couldn't sell a warp drive to Elon Musk for $100.

Seriously, whoever AMD's PR team/firm is they need to be fired. Actually, they need to lose their jobs and be barred from ever holding a marketing position again. With this level of incompetence they should only be qualified for gov't jobs.




The Jedi Master



AMD Broke Off from "Marketing Clock speeds" to "Marketing CPU Ratings" with Athlon XP etc.

The Consumers still compare Clock for Clock, so why not give them what they wanna see, a Direct Clock for Clock Comparison.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/19/16 06:20 PM

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-zen-cpu-stock-market,32520.html
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/19/16 07:56 PM

Eh, SOME do. I wouldn't want them in charge of flying the plane I'm on if the pilot was incapacitated, if you know what I'm saying.

The enlightened ones say "if I spend $XXX on a CPU, will the AMD or Intel offering give me better performance in what I need it do?" That's what matters. You can say it runs at 5Hz and I won't care as long as it's faster than the other guy at that price.

As for stocks, I find percentages funny as they lie. If your stock price is $250 and it goes up 300%, WOW. If instead it's $1...meh.

When a kid makes 15% profit on their lemonade stand, that's really very little. When an oil company makes 15% profit on their $100bn+ revenues, that's a lot.



The Jedi Master
Posted By: Aeronautico

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/19/16 08:08 PM

I don't understand. You might have one $250 share or 250 $1 shares, 300% is still $750.
You are talking about companies' capitalisation? One company might have a million $250 outstanding shares, and another a billion $1 shares: which one is bigger?
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/19/16 09:10 PM

Clockspeed isnt the answer...

AMD was selling 5GHz FX8 Cores that were easily stomped by 3.5 GHz i5's
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/20/16 10:38 AM

As previously noted, in my intense study of the Stock Markets and Strategies, I can summarize -- buy low, sell high, but, in most cases, don't plan to "hold" for long term growth over years.

As previously noted, AMD's huge and obvious mistake with FX series CPUs was going for "clock speed" over "instructions per clock".

Comparing "instructions per clock" and "instructions per watt" is the simple way to compare two CPU "technologies" relative chances for longer term success.

AMD is claiming, by their tests, that AMD CPU technology is now competitive with Intel technology. The folks who buy stock would be interested to know their CPU architecture may be "back on the competitive track" -- and the company stock may have "bottomed out" and will now tend to rise (generally speaking). That's relevant because its a primary job of the AMD CEO and management team to grow the stock price (among other things).

Opinions smile
Posted By: Misty

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/20/16 03:23 PM

Quote:
As previously noted, in my intense study of the Stock Markets and Strategies, I can summarize -- buy low, sell high, but, in most cases, don't plan to "hold" for long term growth over years.


I for one only buy dividend growth stocks (PG, MFST, BA, MRK, CSCO, LMT, T, VZ etc.) and keep them until there is a dividend cut or bad news.
The AMD stock is for traders only.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/22/16 05:46 PM

Quote:
...AMD Takes Graphics Share From Nvidia For The Fourth Consecutive Quarter

Now sitting at 34.2% of the graphics market AMD has nearly doubled its share in 12 months, which was down to as low as 18% in the same time last year. Effectively returning the company to its recent long-term share average of ~35% between 2012 and 2015. Following this 12 month recovery the company is now looking to breakaway with more long-term share growth. Driven by a ramp of its next generation graphics product Vega which is set to succeed Polaris in 2017...


Nvidia still sells twice as much graphics as AMD. However, the direction is good for AMD stockholders and fans.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/22/16 07:47 PM

That will only go up w/ inclusion of Next Gen Consoles Sales, as well as OEM Deals in place on both APUs and Desktops w/ Embedded RX460s from major Manufacturers.

Stock prices continue to climb.

And we still dont have Vega/Zen yet.
Posted By: kludger

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/22/16 11:30 PM

Originally Posted By: Jedi Master

Might as well talk about the benefits of the 2017 Toyota Tacoma by claiming it has more cup holders than a 2005 F-150--assuming that they don't change that by the time the 2017s hit the dealers, of course!

Perhaps they think it's clever, but I see it as another AMD marketing misstep. There are two sides to a business. You need to make a competitive product/service profitably, and then you need to convince customers of that fact.

Regardless of their technical merits, I think AMD has been SERIOUSLY struggling with their marketing in recent years. Intel hasn't had to do much marketing lately, but nvidia has done very well on that score and Apple could sell a 286 in a shoe box to their customers and they'd pay $1500 for it.
AMD couldn't sell a warp drive to Elon Musk for $100.

Seriously, whoever AMD's PR team/firm is they need to be fired. Actually, they need to lose their jobs and be barred from ever holding a marketing position again. With this level of incompetence they should only be qualified for gov't jobs.
The Jedi Master


+1 about the poor comparisons to 2 year old CPUs and the terrible marketing... they have been lost in the marketing and R&D strategy since the 5870...

Also if you own AMD stock consider selling it while it's high, I had a coworker in the late 90s who bought 3dFX stock from being a big fan of their Voodoo1/2 cards "they're the future of gaming man!", unfortunately he didn't sell the stock before the Voodoo4/5 and I believe he lost all his money he invested in 3dfx. Technology stocks are very volatile...
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/23/16 09:29 AM

Quote:
AMD Opens The Lid on Zen Architectural Details at Hot Chips – Huge Performance Leap Over Excavator, Massive Throughput on 14nm FinFET Design


A lengthy description of Zen CPU architecture with slides as presented by AMD -- initially up to 32 cores and 64 threads in some products. It will be combined with Vega GPU for number crunching in some huge core count products.

Quote:
...A 2 socket solution should mean a total of 64 cores and 128 threads along with denser memory capacities that make Opteron sound like a kid in the park. We would also see next generation HPC server chips which combine 32 high-performance cores alongside massive Vega GPUs that will be used to crunch FP64 calculations. That has been in the plans for quite some time and with Naples rolling out in Q2 2017, we might see it sometime around 2018...


Article
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/23/16 03:59 PM

I'd post more if SimHQ's Ads didnt crash the browsers.. lol.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/24/16 10:09 AM

Quote:
... AMD was one of the launch partners for the new Deus Ex: Mankind Divided game and it appears it will be bundled with some of AMD's hot FX-series CPUs..

..a copy of the new Deus Ex: Mankind Divided game with a purchase of a 6- or 8-core AMD FX CPU. According to details provided by AMD, the promotion will run from August 23rd to November 14th or until the supply lasts.

Currently, some of the hot AMD FX-series CPUs like the 6-core FX-6300 or 8-core FX-8320 are selling for as low as US $100 and US $130, so bundling a US $60 game sounds like a really good deal...


Not a bad "bang for buck" -- if one was going to buy Deus Ex. Of course, they are trying to sell off the FX CPUs before Zen hits in a few months.

If I didn't already have multiple FX CPUs in the house, I'd wait for Zen anyway smile
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/24/16 02:53 PM

My brother needs a decent AM3+ CPU, the PhenomII x2 is Bottlenecking his performance something fierce, lol.

I had already decided to keep my FX8350 Rig intact, so as soon as his job situation is settled He'll prolly ask for advice on a FX 8 Core,

They should have the 8 cores on clearance soon... doesnt need anything more than 8 Core 3.5ish GHz, so the 95w models would work fine.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/24/16 03:01 PM

As for AMD's Marketing Shadiness...

it's better than nVidia's Bullying/Stealing/Buyout Shadiness....

nVidia in the last 20 years, has either bought out competition, bullied it, or just plain stole from it.

A Majority of the Proprietary Tech they develop is based off Older Code that what patented by other companies..




Then there's this, if true, pretty much sums it up.:
https://www.techpowerup.com/225287/nvidia-ansel-post-fx-based-on-stolen-mastereffect-reshade-fx-code
Posted By: kludger

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/24/16 06:06 PM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
As for AMD's Marketing Shadiness...

it's better than nVidia's Bullying/Stealing/Buyout Shadiness....

nVidia in the last 20 years, has either bought out competition, bullied it, or just plain stole from it.

A Majority of the Proprietary Tech they develop is based off Older Code that what patented by other companies..
Then there's this, if true, pretty much sums it up.:
https://www.techpowerup.com/225287/nvidia-ansel-post-fx-based-on-stolen-mastereffect-reshade-fx-code


Good point about Nvidia, but I think the problem with AMD is not so much shadyness as incompetence.

How are they ever going to compete with Nvidia when their marketing praises a new product while comparing their to past gen Nvidia or 2 year old Intel product?

Anyone researching their product and reading the marketing sees right through it and it comes off looking even worse.

The example Jedi gave of comparing your new truck model to a years old Tacoma model is perfect...
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/24/16 07:51 PM

Originally Posted By: kludger
Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
As for AMD's Marketing Shadiness...

it's better than nVidia's Bullying/Stealing/Buyout Shadiness....

nVidia in the last 20 years, has either bought out competition, bullied it, or just plain stole from it.

A Majority of the Proprietary Tech they develop is based off Older Code that what patented by other companies..
Then there's this, if true, pretty much sums it up.:
https://www.techpowerup.com/225287/nvidia-ansel-post-fx-based-on-stolen-mastereffect-reshade-fx-code


Good point about Nvidia, but I think the problem with AMD is not so much shadyness as incompetence.

How are they ever going to compete with Nvidia when their marketing praises a new product while comparing their to past gen Nvidia or 2 year old Intel product?

Anyone researching their product and reading the marketing sees right through it and it comes off looking even worse.

The example Jedi gave of comparing your new truck model to a years old Tacoma model is perfect...



They Compared RX480 to 980s and 1070s etc.

The Issue with AMD FXx1xxx and X3xx Desktop Chips was,
Bulldozer was delayed A LOT, by time it came out, Intel had already advanced IPC of their initial iSeries even more than the advantages between Nehelem and AMD K10 PhenomII and AMD 15h BullDozer CPUs,

Another Issue is they Hyped/Promoted Performance using their own Compilers, and completely forgot, 99.999% of the World uses Intel x86 Compilers

Soooo... That Performance went down, then you add in the Errata Delay, The Subpar Cache and handicapped CMT Integer Cores..

Bulldozer and the 15h Family was a unconventional CPU Architecture, that had ZERO Support, AMD was hoping CMT would become wide spread, it did not, even with O/S Patches and Driver Changes, CMT had Issues due to the Cache System and Shared Resources.

Pile Driver addressed some issues, but the Subpar Cache and Handicapped Integer Cores still limited performance, once AMD Realized the Architecture was not good for anything other than High Clock speeds and sucking power, they Scrapped Further Development on the AM3+ Platform and Hired Jim Keller to come back and start work on entirely new Design.

The engineers shifted the 15h Design to Low Power Fm2+ Platform and Slapped Some GCN Blocks onto it and the APU was Born.
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/24/16 08:56 PM

Yeah, nvidia pulled the same thing that AMD did when they bought ATI! Buying other companies to get access to their tech, it's downright immoral!




The Jedi Master
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/25/16 03:15 PM

Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
Yeah, nvidia pulled the same thing that AMD did when they bought ATI! Buying other companies to get access to their tech, it's downright immoral!




The Jedi Master


Umm, nVidia Buys Companies to Remove them From Competition... or to sabotage their competitors,
Not just to Acquire their tech, half their Tech is Swiped from Concepts that AMD and Other Developers from the early 90s produced. (ATi, SiS, etc)
Though, look at nVidia's Company Acquiring History as well as their "new tech unveiling" timelines.

nVidia has bought a major company almost every 10-14 months, and then later unveiled that company's assets as New nVidia tech, not just for GPUs, but for Networking, Mainboards, etc etc.


AMD didnt simply Buy ATi, let alone Buy ATi to steal their Tech,
They Acquired them w/ Permission from the Majority Stockholders from both companies, who generated the finances for the loan used to Purchase the Company.
The Stockholders Literally pushed this Acquisiion from both sides.

AMD Bought ATi, to shift their business and Offices to California from Canada,

ATi was left to Face nVidia alone when 3DFx Fell off, ATi was Based in Canada, and outsourcing Fabrication and Assembly it was causing delays and cost over-runs.

By Allowing AMD to buy them, they moved to a Company that had their own Fabrication Facilities, as well as a parent company with more money to compete directly with nVidia.

By Buying ATi, AMD now had access to Graphics Architectures to Integrate into it's Processor Architectures without having to design their own.

This was a big deal, as Intel had already Announced Upcoming Intel Chips Containing Embedded GPU's (IntelHD) Capable of Rendering etc.

AMD's APU's hit the Market a year after Intel HD enabled CPU's.

After the AMD Had some issues, AMD Separated their Fabrication Facilities into it's own Company (Now Global Foundries) and Divested it, they no longer own GF.


nVidia, Bought 3DFx Out of Bankruptcy, and inherited their debt, just to get access to tech and patents.
nVidia, Bought Ageia Out of Bankruptcy, and inherited their debt, just to get access to their Accelerated PPU and it's Code, which Resurfaced as nVidia GameWorks PhysX.
nVidia, Bought Out ULI just to force them to Terminate their Chipset contract with ATi, then sold them off.
I can go down the list of company acquisions by nVidia, and what that companies tech surfaced as under the GameWorks or


Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/25/16 07:18 PM

Most people really don't care Skate, its how a lot of businesses work and you generally don't give up the chance to grow when the opportunity is there.

Regardless of the mission statement, the objective of almost all businesses is to make money/profit. Give a gamer value for money, cutting edge performance, somewhere between those two markers or simply just the ability to play the games they enjoy and they'll be happy.

If 'Skate Zilla studios' could turn a huge profit, expand year on year and grow as a business I'd wager you wouldn't really care about who you were trampling over in the process. Dog eat dog, always has been, always will be.

Money makes the world go around. You make your own luck and take your chances.......with regards Nvidia, they're hardly thieving technology in many of your examples...they didn't force 3DFX to become bankrupt and they took the opportunity when the chance arose - just like any other company could have done. I'm not sure why you would feel so threatened or intimidated by such a company or be blinded to another company that it means blind fanboyism clouds logical judgement.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/25/16 07:23 PM

Not saying nVidia is Evil.

I enjoyed the bejeevies out of my 8800 Cards for YEARS, well After other people chose to upgrade I was still rockin them Puppies...

Just sayin' they got some crazy business practices, AMD has their own head scratching practices.


as for 3DFx Buyout, there's so many stories behind that and VooDoo5, it's borderline SciFi, lol..
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/25/16 07:26 PM

True, but I think a lot of the 'big" companies have their ghosts in the closet. I'm sure we could talk along day long on Microsoft and Apple just for starters and they'd both put a lot of companies to shame with their dodgy practices.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/25/16 09:58 PM

"Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

Companies with lots of power will tend to do the "wrong thing". That so many do it "makes the point", over and over.

Still, "wrong is wrong". The fact that "nearly everyone who can" does it, does not "make wrong into right".

Civilization might be more civilized if "we the people" held the powerful more accountable.

In the case of politics, we vote with our ballot -- for the success of the least offensive politician. In the case of free enterprise, we vote with our coin -- for the success of the least offensive company.

But without competitors, there is no choice for us to make -- and we are at the mercy of the "powerful".

AMD is the only viable competitor for two powerful companies, Intel and Nvidia.

Competition is good smile

Just opinions smile
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/25/16 11:49 PM

Competition is good, yes....but the point is that just because you don't like a particular company doesn't mean that everything they do is 'bad practice' which is pretty much the vibe given off in this thread whenever Nvidia is mentioned.

Buying up a bankrupt company is par for the course, it isn't tantamount to 'stealing' technology and they didn't force a gun to their head! What exactly do you want to hold Nvidia accountable to........having market share? Being popular with PC gamers because they are providing the performance they want/crave? They almost have a monopoly on the discreet GPU market for many reasons......one of them is because AMD have been poor competition and another is because they have earned the right to be in that position by taking the opportunities in front of them. They haven't got shed-loads of money to buy other companies out by robbing banks!

Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/26/16 12:13 PM

Quote:
...but the point is that just because you don't like a particular company doesn't mean that everything they do is 'bad practice' which is pretty much the vibe given off in this thread whenever Nvidia is mentioned...




For the record, I personally don't hate Nvidia -- they make excellent graphics cards. I have bought them in the past. I have an expensive Nvidia powered tablet.

Its not dumb to buy Nvidia. Many here just buy the best available GPU, independent of manufacturer. I agree with that practice.

But, this is the "AMD fan" thread smile

We're not "cheer leading" -- that would be gross. Mostly, we simply report things about AMD -- often merely by quoting an article (rather than giving our own opinion). But, we try to be accurate. That is, if AMD "blows it" (like they did with the FX CPU design), we say so. If they seem to have an advantage over Intel or Nvidia (the only real competitors), we say so.

The object here is NOT to "bash" Nvidia -- or even to say much about them -- this is the AMD thread. However, we occasionally note reasons why we're AMD fans. In doing so, its natural to "make a comparison" that's not favorable to Intel or Nvidia. Normally, its not their products that are an issue with me personally, its their business practices (that I have watched for decades now).

Anyhow, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. On this AMD thread, it makes sense that one will occasionally see statements favorable to AMD that others don't agree with. Its also true, one might see statements unfavorable to a competitor (that others don't agree with).

If AMD "owned the market" and Intel and Nvidia were minor players, I imagine AMD would start acting in ways that I would not approve of -- Power Corrupts. Competition is good. smile

This is just an opinion statement and an explanation of why one would tend to see "anti-Nvidia" statements here from time to time. Its not an argument. And, I don't expect everyone to agree with my thoughts. smile

For what its worth smile
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/26/16 12:30 PM

Back to the regularly scheduled programming smile

Quote:
Question Time – Is AMD (NASDAQ: AMD) Stock Overvalued?


AMD stock continues to climb. A long article written by someone who professes to be able to analyze stock prices. He finds the plus and the minus in the current situation. Generally, the article is "cautionary" not "negative".

Article
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/28/16 02:38 AM

haha toms strikes again..
http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/pci-express-4-will-deliver-75-watt-over-pcie-not-300w.html
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/29/16 10:00 AM

Quote:
Next Generation Radeon Flagship With Vega 10 Architecture Will Be Coming in 1H 2017 – AMD Confirms
.. ..
Official roadmap confirms Vega based, 14nm FinFET flagship will not be landing this year

..The first half of 2017 means that the time-frame AMD has given for the architecture lies anywhere between January 2017 to June 2017. This also means that AMD’s synergy between its product portfolio stands to be maximized in the first half of 2017 considering Zen based x86 CPUs for the enthusiast market will also be shipping in volume during this time frame. Zen processors and Vega GPUs can trigger a new upgrade cycle in the enthusiast market and for followers of the red camp..

..This could also means that we might not be seeing the GTX 1080 Ti any time soon (considering the Ti will eat into TITAN sales and the GPU manufacturer will have no incentive to release the card so soon)...


Article
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/29/16 03:29 PM

HBM 2 is still in short supply, and high cost,

HBM 3 is on the way,

in 2 or 3+ years we'll have Phase Shift Memory...
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/30/16 10:19 AM

Quote:
Rumor : AMD Zen & Bristol Ridge AM4 Motherboards Coming In October

AMD’s upcoming AM4 motherboards for Zen & Bristol Ridge are said to be debuting in October according to chatter by motherboard partners. ..

Bristol Ridge APUs for the desktop are set to launch around the same time..

..we’ll see Zen on display at CES in January of 2017. ..

AM4, AMD’s Next Generation Unified Socket For APUs & CPUs

AM4 is the very first unified socket by the company. Finally bringing all of its desktop products under one roof. The next generation AM4 socket will be compatibel with both desktop APUs and CPUs. ...


As an AMD user who builds more computers than I need, I've appreciated that AMD has kept the same Motherboard Design (socket part) for the FX CPUs over the years. Now, AMD CPUs and APUs will all use the same Motherboard. Get one good motherboard and it should last for years through multiple CPU and/or APU upgrades. Useful and cost effective, if one likes to upgrade a lot.

Article
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/30/16 02:33 PM

Still rocking my 990FX Boards, With both FX and PhenomII Chips.. :-)

Im ready for PCIe 3.0, m.2, DDR4 (For the love of god, DDR4 is now Cheaper than DDR3, and I can run 32GB easy!)

Both of my AM3+/990FX Boards still had PCI 32-Bit Slots, Hopefully they are gone for more PCIe Slots, the only thing I used them for was the SB Xi Cards,

But lately I've removed them and used the onboard sound + the XFi/EAX Audio Driver for them, so literally removed a card, and Used the RealTek EAX/XFi Control Panel Driver.

Cut on Power Draw, Slot use, heat blocking my GPUs.. etc. I miss some of the XFi Platinum Features, but the Audio Ram was never used, nor is EAX, which hasnt been used in a while, though I do put EAX Profiles on for games, and use a generic profile just to get better and more lively audio.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/31/16 10:29 AM

As noted in a separate post, new AMD and Intel CPUs and APUs will only run Windows 10, it is rumored.

Its not perfectly clear to me why Windows 7 and 8 will not run. However, part of the rumor is that the new chips need new drivers -- which will only be supplied for Windows 10.

Does not affect me. But, I know many folks still like/use Windows 7.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/31/16 10:39 AM

Quote:
Intel Launches 7th Generation 14nm Plus Processors Featuring Kaby Lake Architecture

Intel has just recently launched the Kaby Lake architecture with a total of 6 SKUs as well as the m-series. Building up on the 14 nanometer process,...


A lengthy description of AMDs new CPU competition from Intel. I assume the new Intel cores will be slightly faster than the AMD Zen at the same clock rate. But, folks will need to consider other aspects such as cost, power requirements, final clocks, and core count to pick the best CPU for their purpose.

Of course, AMD fans will buy AMD smile

Competition is good smile

Article
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 08/31/16 02:42 PM

Originally Posted By: Allen
As noted in a separate post, new AMD and Intel CPUs and APUs will only run Windows 10, it is rumored.

Its not perfectly clear to me why Windows 7 and 8 will not run. However, part of the rumor is that the new chips need new drivers -- which will only be supplied for Windows 10.

Does not affect me. But, I know many folks still like/use Windows 7.



Not a Rumor, MS Confirmed around January, they will not be making any new OS CPU Drivers for any new CPUs starting in 2016 for anything other than Windows 10.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/01/16 06:11 PM

Quote:
AMD Releases Radeon Software Crimson Edition 16.8.3; Adds Crossfire Profiles For Battlefield 1 & Deus Ex: Mankind Divided
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/02/16 07:16 PM

if it comes to ot, Ima end up getting a Fury or FuryX
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/03/16 10:12 AM

Quote:
AMD Has Plans To Create The ‘Starship’ Processor With 48 Cores / 96 Threads On The 7nm Node .. planned for 2018

..Since all of this is basically just leaked paperwork at the moment, it would be prudent to take it with more than a pinch of salt...


Apparently, this is two or three month old news, but I hadn't seen it.

Going straight past 10nm to 7nm is the "big news" to me. It means faster progress to the "end of miniaturization" -- as some folks think 7nm is the smallest possible CPU architecture using "silicon" (I personally won't be surprised if smart folks get down around 3 or 4nm).

Once CPU cores are as "small" as possible, the only improvement will be in core count and architecture tweaks -- thus 48 cores. I imagine 48 cores could help flight simulations and other simulations -- if the simulations are coded to use 48 cores/96 threads. For example, one "thread" per aircraft in some air battles seems natural -- compared to only one or two threads for the entire world and all active units combined in older wartime simulations.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/04/16 07:02 PM

With 400 Series gaining Inventory,

Etailers are clearancing the 300 Series,

Seeing 380s for $140, and 380Xs for 179.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/05/16 12:16 PM

Quote:
Intel Corporation May Have Pushed 7-Nanometer Tech to 2021

The chip giant's first 7-nanometer products may not arrive until 2021, with substantially improved new products based on the technology in 2022...


Intel plans a 10nm node next. Some folks are speculating that Intel 7nm will be delayed to 2022.

Article

As noted in an above post, others hypothesize (based on limited information) that AMD will skip the 10nm node entirely and go straight to 7nm. That makes sense because 10nm may not be that much faster than 14nm -- and some folks (like gamers) just want speed.

Some think 7nm will be the end of the line for downsizing silicon circuits -- and may be hard to do. If AMD succeeds at 7nm first, their CPUs might surpass Intel (for the second time this century).

This is speculation and guessing in 2016. But, it does show that big increases in CPU and GPU performance are less likely in the near term. Thus, our current upgrades to 14/16nm CPU and GPU may last a few years as the 10nm node may not be "significantly" faster and may be later than planned -- and 7nm may be much later than originally expected -- these are upgrade cost/benefit considerations for those of us AMD fans upgrading early next year (Zen CPU and Vega GPU).
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/06/16 11:17 AM

Quote:
AMD Launches 7th Gen Bristol Ridge APUs For AM4 Desktop-OEM PCs – Promontory Chipset Stack Detailed

AMD has officially launched their 7th generation, Bristol Ridge APUs for desktop platforms. The latest APUs will be available for sale through several OEM manufacturers. The new series would utilize the Excavator and GCN core architecture..

..AMD had already launched Bristol Ridge for notebooks but are now bringing it to the masses on desktop platforms...


These are 28nm AMD APUs. I've built a couple computers using the older model APU. Based on my limited experience, SimHQ folks should not be looking to an APU (from AMD or Intel) for an acceptable PC gaming experience. Don't buy an APU intending to match it with a separate GPU. Just get a "stand alone" CPU and "stand alone" GPU.

However, for those on a really tight budget, the new APU should beat Intel for low cost (without a separate GPU) gaming in a low cost PC or laptop -- because they do have excellent AMD GPU circuitry (Intel's in-CPU-chip graphics are improving but still second rate). Based on my experience, you can play all the games with the APU -- but, not to SimHQ standards smile

These will use the new AM4 motherboard technology. The AM4 motherboards will run ALL of the upcoming AMD CPUs and APUs.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/07/16 09:47 PM

I Steam VR benchmarked my current RX480 powered system (listed below). Mostly, frame rates were above 100fps and never below 90fps.

My RX480 system just meets the full standard (does not exceed it) as shown by the screenshot below. That is what AMD advertised -- they said the RX480 would fully meet the VR specifications but not exceed. Parenthetically, the FX9590 CPU also fully met the specification.

During the run, two images are up on the screen -- side by side. I let my "eyes" "spread" (opposite of cross) to watch the scene in full 3D stereo without needing special glasses or a VR setup. I suppose others could do the same.

Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/07/16 11:35 PM

It took me both of my 7970 Lightnings to Get to the Green, lol.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/08/16 10:42 AM

Quote:
Sony Launches AMD "Polaris" Powered Playstation 4 Pro

..Under the hood, the PlayStation 4 Pro features an all new semi-custom SoC designed by Sony and AMD .. with 8 cores .. The GPU component is where the action is. .. based on the [AMD] "Polaris" GPU architecture...


This is an upgrade of current Playstation 4 with substantially improved graphics. It it is said to use the latest AMD graphics (as found in RX480).

The new Microsoft "XBox One S" also uses an upgraded AMD chip.

As noted other times in this long thread, this implies that new console games will be optimized for AMD graphics. Of course, many of those games will become PC games also -- some with Nvidia tweaks -- but, underneath, primarily AMD graphics.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/08/16 02:42 PM

seeing as Xbox One S is sporting "5 TFLOPS" I'd Say it's a RX480 GPU embedded.

both AMD and Sony have been spamming my inbox with "Polaris on Consoles" Emails/Tweets, lol.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/09/16 11:44 AM

Quote:
AMD releases new Radeon Software 16.9.1 drivers


These are a hotfix. Not a new WHQL set.

Quote:
TSMC to begin 7nm volume production in Q1 2018


Rumor is, AMD will bypass 10nm node and go straight to 7nm. We'll see.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/09/16 12:11 PM

A DX12 benchmark set that looks good for AMD. The RX480 is even competitive with Nvidia 1070 in this game in DX12 at 1080p.

As previously noted, AMD does better than most folks expect when using the most up to date graphics APIs (DX12 and Vulcan). So, AMD RX480 "bang for buck" makes sense if one has to keep a card for a few years -- as DX12 and Vulcan titles are released.



Article
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/09/16 01:52 PM

I will never, NEVER, play a game without some form of FSAA ever again. Jagged lines are the ultimate experience destroyer to me. The whole screen looks like utter filth.

No-FSAA benchmarks are up there with comparisons at 640x480 resolution for me. How does a card perform when it's set the way I would actually play a game? That's all that matters. If a game doesn't have FSAA, I force it thru drivers every time. You can make a 15 year old game surprisingly decent despite low res textures with high FSAA.



The Jedi Master
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/09/16 03:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
I will never, NEVER, play a game without some form of FSAA ever again...


I wondered if the no FSAA in the tests might bother some folks smile

Personally, I never use FSAA (one exception where I turned it on by default when selecting Ultimate settings for a game).

Historically, once we got to 1080p, I always set AA to 0 -- makes the game "blurry" to my eyes on a "good eyes" day (normal monitor at about 30 inches view distance). Occasionally 20/15 vision at computer distance on a very, very "good eyes" day. On the other hand, dry eye can somewhat cloud things at other times -- so AA is unnecessary biggrin

It has occurred to me that others may see things clearer and have faster eye response than I have. So, they may prefer AA and higher frame rates than are okay for me. Thus, from time to time, I mention that I use 0AA and mention that 30fps looks smooth to me -- so folks understand where I'm coming from when I say something "looks good" and "plays smooth".

In summary, yes, I agree. Giving the FPS both with and without AA seems relevant. thumbsup

I actually do wonder if the different forms of AA now available and the different AA algorithms used by AMD and Nvidia makes a fair/true "1 to 1" comparison more difficult -- so they just skip AA at times.
Posted By: Bib4Tuna

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/09/16 04:01 PM


The DX12 update on DE:MD has been a disappointment for me.

The internal benchmark of the game says I gained 8% on average FPS (~56), but the whole thing is a stuttery mess on the actual game.

On DX11, on a mix of Ultra/Very High settings, runs very smooth (51 Average) and looks gorgeous.

Even on a R9 390X with 8GB, it only reverts to smooth on DX12 with default High settings. My Average FPS goes up to 65.

And yes, I'm using Crimson 6.9.1.
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/09/16 06:51 PM

Yes, the raw fps rate is no longer a sufficient barometer either. If your fps averages 60 by spending half its time at 120 and half at zero, that's not good. smile

Stutters, dropped frames, tearing, hitching, there are various issues that don't appear in a given bennchmark but may make a game unplayable for some users. That's why people who say "it has to be 60" make me laugh because in a vacuum that's meaningless. Give me a smooth issue-free low frame rate over a "fast" rate with all that junk in it.

There were some games in the past with the ability to have dynamic details, it would crank it up when the game ran fast and smooth and start lowering it when the game slowed down. This has fallen out of favor, although with most games being lazy console ports the performance is usually fine anyway.



The Jedi Master
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/11/16 10:48 AM

Quote:
AMD Partner Globalfoundries Begins 12nm FD-SOI Rollout – Product Tape Out Expected In 2019
...
GLOBALFOUNDRIES’ new 12FDX technology is built on a 12nm fully-depleted silicon-on-insulator (FD-SOI) platform, enabling the performance of 10nm FinFET with better power consumption and lower cost than 16nm FinFET. The platform offers a full node of scaling benefit, delivering a 15 percent performance boost over today’s FinFET technologies and as much as 50 percent lower power consumption.
...
Where 12FDX’s true advantages lie are cost and simplicity, two things that FinFET’s design complexity and high expense really cannot contend with.

Fab 1 in Dresden, Germany is being equipped to begin trial production of 12FDX and subsequent volume ramp and mass production in 2019 ...


Article

Intel will have 10nm quite soon. But, is putting 7nm off until 2022, it is rumored.

AMD has multiple partners making "silicon" for them. Each approaches things a bit differently.

Recent announcements, rumors, speculations suggest 12nm, 10nm, or 7nm as AMD's next major process node (after 14nm). Interesting to me, is the timing of all the new nodes.

The other thing to notice is that actual "speed" increases relatively little (15 percent) but power efficiency is way up.

Competition is good smile
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/11/16 03:22 PM

Quote:
Exclusive: Is Intel Really Starting To Lose Its Process Lead? 7nm Node Slated For Release in 2022

... Intel has delayed its 7 nm process to 2022. The 7nm node has been referred to, many times, as the end of conventional process technology and, quite repeatedly, the start of the road where physics will start to break down (we will go into detail on this below). Quite understandably, Intel has started to slow down its shrink schedule to milk the existing nodes for a bit longer and most of all – buy it precious time. ...


Article

In connection with my above post: A long technical article that discusses how all "nodes" are "not created equal" and other technical stuff.

The summary conclusion is that Intel does nodes best. And Intel's 7nm will be the first "true 7nm" -- even if it is the "last 7nm" on the market.


Still, the actual performance differences between nodes are not real big in terms of making a game FPS difference people can "see" and "feel" (versus only "measure") -- and games are the toughest test for most PC buyers. Thus, being last with the best 7nm may still equate to being last in the games arena -- or not. We'll see. Of course, I expect Intel to stay "at the top" in the CPU world in sales volume -- no matter what they do smile
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/12/16 05:46 PM

Quote:
AMD grows market share

...figures from Mercury and Jon Peddie Research show that it has been growing market share for the fourth consecutive quarter.

..In total discrete graphics, AMD gained 4.8 share points to 34.2 per cent of market by unit volume (based on Mercury Research). In desktop discrete sector, AMD saw a 7.3 share point increase, rising to 29.9 per cent market share...
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/13/16 05:34 PM

https://www.techpowerup.com/225786/amd-readies-x370-high-end-chipset-for-summit-ridge-processors

Quote:
AMD is readying three motherboard chipsets for its next-generation socket AM4 desktop platform. With its 7th generation A-series "Bristol Ridge" APUs, the company launched the A320 mainstream and B350 premium motherboard chipsets, while keeping a better-endowed high-end chipset under the wraps, which makes its debut with the ZEN "Summit Ridge" processors. It turns out that this chipset is the AMD X370. The X370 chipset will debut with the first ZEN "Summit Ridge" processors along the sidelines of the 2017 International CES, next January.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/14/16 11:57 PM

Quote:
Wall Street analyst says Intel chip better than Zen

A Wall Street analyst, with no thought to his personal safety, has dared to question what AMD fans have been telling us for ages – Zen will bring about peace on earth, cure cancer and above all give Intel a good kicking.

However, Christopher Danely with Citigroup has bravely claimed that with its “Kaby Lake” family of processors, Intel remains a “step-function ahead of AMD Zen when Zen chips are released in Q416”...


See we AMD fans at SimHQ can "take __it" and smile smile

Anyhow, the article is probably correct. AMD will be one node of experience behind Intel. As the Intel 14nm is a step in their architecture path but is all new to AMD (so AMDs version may not be "perfect").

However, that may only translate to about a 5 to 15 percent per core-clock advantage for Intel. Far less than the advantage has been recently. And, I would claim that 15 percent in a CPU will not be truly noticeable in most uses (in the office or home).

Moreover, the AMD 8 core / 16 thread processors may be selling for enough less than Intel that AMD would be the "rational choice" for most uses. Although, I expect most would buy Intel due to previous purchases and brand recognition.

However, we'll see. Nothing may turn out like I expect. It would not be the first time (I still remember "Bulldozer") smile

Competition is good smile
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/15/16 02:34 AM

is this the same analyst that swears AMD is lying about 40% more than Steam Roller and says it's more like 40% over the Core that Came before Bulldozer (Orachi I think)
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/15/16 12:45 PM

Even this "biased" analyst agreed that the new AMD Zen actually is 2 percent faster (per clock) than the Intel chip it was tested against -- in the test that was run.

In effect, he's just saying the new Intel chip will be faster than the old Intel chip (to which I say -- no kidding). Moreover, he is "guessing" that AMD Zen will not improve between engineering and production (could be true).

And then, he writes an article -- as he is paid to do smile

Then, a writer known for his "smirky" style writes an article about the analyst's article -- as he is paid to do smile

Finally, I copy the smirky words over to SimHQ -- for the fun of it smile

As we all know, we'll find out the truth when the products are on the shelf and independently tested -- prior to that is rumor and guesswork (sometimes educated guesswork).
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/15/16 02:47 PM

Analysts say a bunch of stuff to try and sway stock prices, lol.

Intel's IPC has been flat lined or slightly lower the last 3 new Architectures, I doubt all of a sudden then get a 15% boost out of no where.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/15/16 02:48 PM

Originally Posted By: Allen
Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
I will never, NEVER, play a game without some form of FSAA ever again...


I wondered if the no FSAA in the tests might bother some folks smile

Personally, I never use FSAA (one exception where I turned it on by default when selecting Ultimate settings for a game).

Historically, once we got to 1080p, I always set AA to 0 -- makes the game "blurry" to my eyes on a "good eyes" day (normal monitor at about 30 inches view distance). Occasionally 20/15 vision at computer distance on a very, very "good eyes" day. On the other hand, dry eye can somewhat cloud things at other times -- so AA is unnecessary biggrin

It has occurred to me that others may see things clearer and have faster eye response than I have. So, they may prefer AA and higher frame rates than are okay for me. Thus, from time to time, I mention that I use 0AA and mention that 30fps looks smooth to me -- so folks understand where I'm coming from when I say something "looks good" and "plays smooth".

In summary, yes, I agree. Giving the FPS both with and without AA seems relevant. thumbsup

I actually do wonder if the different forms of AA now available and the different AA algorithms used by AMD and Nvidia makes a fair/true "1 to 1" comparison more difficult -- so they just skip AA at times.



I haven't Run MSAA in a while, VSR at 1440p (for Eyefinity) or 4K downsampling to my 1080p screen works better for me.
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/15/16 08:19 PM

Depends on the title and the method used. Some need serious help, some do better with this combination, some do better with another.

However, rule of thumb is at native monitor res most games look like a computer picture unless you work the MSAA/FXAA/rendering tricks.




The Jedi Master
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/16/16 10:58 AM

Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
Depends on the title .. Some need serious help...


A good point.

Nearly always I'm playing one of the games known for the better graphics. On top of that, where feasible, I normally add 3'd party high resolution textures (or frequently, I make them myself -- I like to mod games).

So, whereas a normal game's normal texture might be 512x512 pixels or 1024x1024, I could be running up to 4096x4096 (which my RX480 handles well). I also incorporate a few higher detail 3'd party 3D models in some rare cases (e.g. Skyrim).

Why do I do it -- so I won't see the pixels -- or faceted versions of nominally smooth objects.

Dummy me -- sometimes (not most games) I do use FSAA in a sense. Just been doing it so many years its second nature and I don't think about it smile
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/19/16 11:02 AM

Quote:
...Socket AM4'.. has 1331 pins which is a big boost on the 942 pins supported by AMD's AM3+ socket..

..The new AM4 socket is the same 40mm [size] as previous AMD sockets - it is unclear though what is happening to the CPU cooler compatibility...


Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/19/16 11:13 AM

Here is the Intel Roadmap for comparison to AMD oriented statements in this thread.

Interesting that AMD and Intel will be competing at 14nm for at least a year.

And, Intel is "limited" to 6 cores/12 threads while AMD is pushing for 8 cores/16 threads in that period. We'll see.

Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/19/16 04:47 PM

Originally Posted By: Allen
Quote:
...Socket AM4'.. has 1331 pins which is a big boost on the 942 pins supported by AMD's AM3+ socket..

..The new AM4 socket is the same 40mm [size] as previous AMD sockets - it is unclear though what is happening to the CPU cooler compatibility...




If only they Zoomed out so we can see the retention bracket.,

AMD Did say the increased number of PCB Traces forced them to make changes to the cooler retention system, so
AM2/AM3/AM3+ Coolers will not fit.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/20/16 10:15 AM

Quote:
Vega 10 is coming next year and it seems that it will be faster than the P100 card. P100 (21.2 TFlops) is a supercomputer part .. with 24Tflops, Vega 10 will significantly outperform Geforce Titan X.


As of today's rumored leaks, the top Vega GPU is rumored to be the fastest future GPU currently known about. Speculated to beat Nvidia's best upcoming parts.

We all know Nvidia will react with something faster smile

However, if they don't -- oh, oh dizzy
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/20/16 02:30 PM

TFLOPs doesnt translate equally to FPS.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/20/16 02:34 PM

Quote:
AMD Zen+, Vega 20 & Navi GPUs To Be Built On 7nm FinFET – Globalfoundries Announces Risk Production For 2018
..
AMD Expects To Have 7nm FinFET Zen+, Vega 20 & Navi Products On Shelves Before 2020

..This announcement comes off the heels of AMD’s recently amended wafer supply agreement with Globalfoundries, its biggest foundry partner. Which spans five years from 2016 to 2020 and includes a clause guaranteeing collaboration between the two companies on the development of 7nm FinFET. This indicates that AMD has clear plans to migrate its computing and graphics roadmap to 7nm and have products produced on the process out by 2020.

Dr. Lisa Su, AMD president and CEO

“The five-year amendment further strengthens our strategic manufacturing relationship with GLOBALFOUNDRIES ...


Article

Whoa. Now AMD is threatening to jump ahead of Intel. It was a rumor. Now Dr. Su says its a fact.

We'll see how successful GF 7nm turns out to be. But, it makes sense, if one believes 7nm is the "end of the line" for downsizing architecture, why mess with 10nm? Take this "chance" to "maybe" get "one up" on Intel.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/20/16 02:47 PM

https://www.techpowerup.com/226012/amd-vega-10-vega-20-and-vega-11-gpus-detailed
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/20/16 06:08 PM

So

Vega 10 = Fury 2.0 (4096 SP, 16GB HBM2, 512GB/sec, 24 TFLOPS)
Vega 11 = Polaris 10 Replacement
Vega 20 = 7nm Shrink of Vega 10 w/ 32GB of HBM2 / PCIe 4.0

Polaris 10 is already getting replaced after only a year.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/21/16 11:29 AM

Quote:
AMD A12-9800 Pushed to 4.8 GHz on an AM4 Board Called Octopus

.. it does feature the AM4 socket and the B350 chipset. .. this motherboard is built for the DIY market and isn’t finished yet in terms of design. So it’s just an early look at what kind of overclockability some really good value AM4 motherboards would offer to users..

The chip was clocked to a maximum overclock of 4.8 GHz, a cool 27% increase in clock speed. Chip voltage was configured at 1.325V. At this overclock, the chip managed to score 4608 points in HWBot Prime benchmark. The great thing about this testing is that it was performed on air. The AMD in-house built, Wraith cooler, was used for cooling. The cooler has set a great foundation for AMD reference coolers that will be compatible with the AM4 socket...


A12 APU is still the older 28nm node -- but updated architecture and R7 type graphics

Overclockability on air is good news in a sense. But, using an A12 APU for a gamer's computer with a separate GPU is not recommended to SimHQ readers. Nonetheless, it could make a good very low cost system that could play all games (newest games at reduced settings), based on my AMD APU builds.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/21/16 03:36 PM

Excavator Cores.... So 4.8 = 3.9 Intel
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/21/16 06:58 PM

Appears AM3 -> AM4 heatsink compatibility will depend on Mainboard manufacturer and design.
Posted By: kestrel79

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/22/16 04:53 AM

Good to hear! Think I'll hold out for one of these gpus smile
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/25/16 01:24 AM

AMD 300 Series and Partner Cards will start getting HEFTY discounts to clear out stock.

In Early 2017, 400 Series will be on Clearance to make room for 500 Series.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/26/16 08:58 PM

Quote:
AMD X370 For Enthusiast AM4 Motherboards:

... we have X370, a high-end chipset for overclockers and tweakers who need robust platforms. This chip provides the ultimate low-level control to its users and delivers ultimate graphics card bandwidth. By bandwidth, AMD is referring to max PCI-Express lanes as this is the only chip in the stack that supports multi-GPU functionality. The chipset supports both, CFX (CrossFire) and SLI..

..AMD has mentioned two full x16 (Gen3) lanes for GPUs. AIBs can add additional lanes through a PLX chip but that would add to the cost...


So, now we know to buy only an X370 motherboard -- when the day arrives -- next year.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/26/16 09:34 PM

2x 16 Lane Slots is the "maximum"?
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/26/16 10:08 PM

Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/26/16 10:58 PM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
2x 16 Lane Slots is the "maximum"?


I edited the above post: 2x16 standard, add another with a special chip.

My reading of the rumors and speculations is that Crossfire and other multi-card setups will slowly lose support by AMD and Nvidia. The wave of the future (Navi??) will be single cards with multiple GPU chips that act like a single GPU chip -- very cost effective (smaller chips -- less bad ones) and potentially unlimited shaders. So, maybe this is just the beginning of the future.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/27/16 04:39 PM

My understanding is around 7NM w/ HBM3, AMD is going to stop supporting xDMA XFire past 2 Cards, and if you want 4 GPUs you'll have to get dual GPU Cards.

Chips would be small enough, Instead of Multi Card / Multi GPU Setups it will turn into Single Card / Multi-GPU Setups

It would make sense, have one 16 Lane PCIe Slot, and a Card with 1, 2, 3, or 4 GPUs on the PCB, and Link them Using a PCIe Controller on the PCB.

That was pretty much the path I Posted months ago.... I was told I was crazy on the Overclocking Websites... lol, We'll See.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 09/30/16 09:05 AM

Quote:
Vega 10 with HBM2 will launch this year

.. sources have confirmed that Vega 10, AMD’s first HBM 2 card will by announced before the end of this year, at least for the professional market..

.. doesn’t mean that they will have too many to sell. The general idea is to get the customers excited and ship in volume in early 2017...
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/03/16 05:57 PM

Quote:

Fun historical fact for AMD fanboys

In Ancient Greece there was a Titan called Nemesis who was connected to all things evil which were caused by envy. ..

When the Italians took over Greece they were impressed by this goddess and gave her a new name which would inspire terror for centuries – iNvidia (pronounced invidia)

It just goes to show, the more things change, the more they stay the same. Curiously iNivida was always shown dressed in green, because she was always envious. ...


Article

A very old depiction of iNvidia:



A cuter version:



No, I don't hate Nvidia -- just for fun smile

Competition is good smile

Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/03/16 06:22 PM

i was under impression it was pronounced "en - vid - E -ahh"
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/04/16 07:25 PM

Quote:
AMD Zen Launching In January At CES 2017 – High-End X370 AM4 Motherboards Shipping In December

AMD’s next generation Zen CPUs will reportedly launch at the upcoming Consumer Electronics Show in January 2017. This next generation family of desktop processors code-named Summit Ridge will feature up to eight cores & sixteen threads and will be compatible with AMD’s upcoming AM4 platform. There will a wide collection of AM4 motherboards displayed on the show floor, including the high-end models featuring the X370 series chipset.

This news, which will undoubtedly have AMD fans excited to bits, comes directly from the supply chain reports Digitimes. AMD is currently in the process of clearing its existing inventories of FX 8300, 6300 and 4300 series processors with a combination of aggressive price cuts and bundles to make way for Zen...


Article
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/05/16 07:04 PM

Party Party Party
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/07/16 02:29 PM

An article discusses the improvement from generation to generation of Intel processors.

Quote:
...The feeling was that Kaby Lake is a decent step forward. But it is pretty dull .. It does follow a margin of improvement which is about what we expect these days. Haswell to Broadwell gave us maybe 10 percent. Going from Broadwell to Skylake yielded similar results. Is 10 per cent worth getting excited about? Not really and not worth dumping your Skylake for...


They point out most AMD generational improvements are also in the 10 percent range.

This just supports my "biases". If one buys "today's" best CPU, it will be "years" before something comes out that actually makes a "visible" difference in games ("measurable" but not "visible").

The upcoming AMD Zen CPU should make a big 40 percent jump because AMD goes from a "poor" CPU architecture to an "up to date" CPU architecture. Intel made that jump a few years back -- so is stuck on the 10 percent path.

After Zen, AMD may also be stuck on the 10 percent path during future years. Moreover, if 7nm really is the smallest architecture -- we are close to the very end of progress (on single Core, single thread performance).

Based on my BIAS, it could be that the next CPU one buys may be the last one they ever actually need to buy for games (except to replace a failed part) -- at least for older SimHQ members, like me. But, I'll buy the new ones just for fun smile
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/08/16 09:58 PM

Allen, do you know where the "Disable Displays" option is in the new Drivers?

I cant seem to find it anywhere. and literally all my screens are on for no reason, wasting power on the GPU by forcing higher GPU and memory clocks.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/08/16 10:47 PM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
Allen, do you know where the "Disable Displays" option is in the new Drivers...


My issue with Crimson is that it made it "harder" to set up multi-displays. Its just not intuitively obvious -- like it used to be.

As you know, there are 3 panels to control displays (on and off settings):

1. Right click desktop and pick "AMD Radeon Settings". This gives the main, supported settings.

2. When in "AMD Radeon Settings" click "Preferences" then click "Radeon Additional Settings" to get the "old style" AMD settings panel. This one used to make setting up multi displays "easy as pie". Now, most of the selections -- including activating and deactivating displays seems to be missing. However, they say you can set up Eyefinity using this panel. I tried it long ago and had to reload a "System Image" to get back to a workable system.

3. Right click desktop and pick "Display Settings" -- the Windows 10 app. Then click "Display". The page that comes up allows one to turn displays on and off. I've used it. However, I am "too cautious" to experiment with it now. I have my system working how I want it and don't want an unexpected problem to crop up -- I just leave it as it is all the time.

So, in brief, I'm not sure. But, one could try item 3 above. It has worked for me in the past, but I have not tried it recently -- and newer drivers may work differently.

This is my only issue with AMD drivers. They seem to make Eyefinity easy. BUT, then its hard to change back and forth to other monitor configurations without "screwing around" (at least for me). Hopefully, they will eventually do away with the "old" panel and incorporate all the old features into the Crimson panel -- in a clear and understandable way. Or, maybe they just want us to use Windows 10 "Display Settings" to configure display orientations and "on/off".
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/08/16 11:25 PM

Exactly what I saw, it's missing from the additional settings, and I have windows 7 so the option to turn off screens isnt there,

Power off, and windows still see's them, I have to physically unplug the DVI Cable, and that causes some wonkiness.

But right now for some reason, I get this annoying flicker w/ all 3 screens on that i didnt get before the update. The Screens are fine, jist every few minutes all 3 flicker at the same time, I'm not sure what causes it, sometimes it's one and done, other times it does it multiple times before stopping, Like pixel shift, Right now I've unplugged other monitors to see if it continues, if it does then I know it's something to do w/ all 3 enabled, which I didn't have a problem before.

Might roll back, as the updated drivers brought more problems than it solved, i was hoping it would solve the hard lock when closing oculus rift software but it didnt, So might as well uninstall and roll back.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/08/16 11:45 PM

I havent had any flicking since I unplugged the other 2, I might just have to look at the DP's and move some stuff around.

But I Didnt have any problem Running 6 Screens off the card before (4 MiniDP-> DVI Active, 1 DVI-I, 1 DVI->HDMI)

Might be a MiniDP Chain issue,

if I unplug the Left Screen's Data Cable, the Left and the Right Lose Signal and All that's Left is my Center,

if I unplug the Right Screen's Data Cable, the Left and the Right go out, and again, Only Center...

:-/

During Post and Linux it runs fine, so must be the new driver.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/09/16 09:15 AM

Interesting to see I'm not the only one.

For years, AMD graphics drivers got "bad press". But from about 2003 to CRIMSON they gave me virtually no problems (only two or three times I had minor issues in that long span).

However, with Crimson, they have "some old" mixed with a lot of "new" and its not "fully sorted" yet -- for multi monitor setups.

Maybe forcing one to use Windows 10 for some things is an "evil plot" to get us all on Windows 10. Hopefully, AMD got a "few million" from MS for their "cooperation" (just kidding, of course) smile
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/09/16 10:19 AM

Related to our notes that maybe 7nm CPUs and GPUs represent "the end" of progress for "silicon" transistors.

Quote:
Smallest. Transistor. Ever.

Berkeley Lab-led research breaks major barrier in transistor size by creating gate only 1 nanometer long

...the laws of physics had set a 5-nanometer threshold on the size of transistor gates among conventional semiconductors..

Some laws are made to be broken, or at least challenged..

..The key was to use carbon nanotubes and molybdenum disulfide (MoS2)...


Note: They did NOT use silicon. So, maybe 7nm (maybe slightly smaller) remains the smallest we'll see from silicon.

In the mean time, long term, people will try to find a way to get smaller than that -- by using materials other than Silicon. Thing is, these other materials are harder to work with -- so, only time will tell if they will be successful -- its not obvious they will be successful (in my career we worked with other circuit materials -- that looked good in simple applications but had unsolvable fabrication problems when trying to make a complex CPU type part).

Along those lines, to quote more from the article:

Quote:
...it’s a proof of concept. We have not yet packed these transistors onto a chip, and we haven’t done this billions of times over. We also have not developed self-aligned fabrication schemes for reducing parasitic resistances in the device...


Still, for a "Materials Scientist/Engineering Scientist" (or similarly trained), solving this intractable problem is what life is all about -- its fun smile
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/09/16 07:32 PM

Well I Started getting the flickering on 1 screen last night, so I just shut everything off, I think the repeated brown outs from hurricanes winds spoofed my UPS, as late last night, every brown out the UPS would shut off completely and claim battery overload.


But Like I said, I can turn on / off monitors individually in pre-boot environment and Linux Fin by unplugging the DVI Cables,

But in WIndows w/ the Latest drivers I unplug one and the other goes off as well,.

plus the flickering wasnt occuring in Linux Boot USB or Pre-boot Environment.

When I was cleaning I accidentally reset my CMOS w/ the back I/O Button, lol,
So all the Cx Power States are re-enabled and my OC is removed,
But I made sure the load the Ram's AMP and Chipset settings for Ports I dont use being disabled, and SATA Settings/Modes..

Cx States shouldnt cause these issues.

once Power stabilizes here I'm gonna remove the Drivers and go back to the one that allowed me to turn off screens.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/11/16 10:46 PM

Quote:
AMD x86 Zen Architecture Will Implement Game Changing Encryption Features Such as SME, SEV and HW Based SHA – Not Present In SkyLake or KabyLake

..powered by a security co-processor [in the CPU chip]..

...at this moment, no competing Intel [current or future] architecture has any known features to rival these...


Uh-oh, will AMD actually "get the jump" on Intel for a (big) change???

Gamers won't care much; but, could result in more market share with some major companies.

Article
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/11/16 11:02 PM

2 immediate problems with that.....

1) it will get cracked and if its in hardware, how does it get fixed?

2) it potentially puts liability for the integrity of data at the source. Assuming that third party security experts may not be required that's a big responsibility onto teams/companies who aren't experts in that field. With that in mind will large companies actually put the trust in CPU encryption technology? - I doubt it, I'd wager they'll continue to use and pay for 3rd parties to take this on and also leave them with the responsibility should the worst happen.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/12/16 08:57 AM

Originally Posted By: Paradaz
2 immediate problems with that....


Good points. I didn't give it much thought before posting.

I guess it remains to be seen if they've done something special to address those reasonable concerns smile

While I'm not a security expert, this feature sounds useful. Apparently, it makes the RAM in use by the CPU "encrypted" -- from the above article that describes the features:

Quote:
...Enter Zen SME. Zen Secure Memory Encryption is something that allows the complete encryption of the memory being used. Your data is encrypted when it’s in transit on the internet. It has always been encrypted when it’s stored on an HDD or SSD in server farms. But the RAM is one place where it has always existed in clear text. With Zen SME, we can close the last remaining “cleartext” portion and enable encryption in the memory as well – for truly end to end security...


I imagine the encryption can change every so often, thereby making the data actively in RAM a "moving target" that is, thus, harder to crack. However, as noted, I don't know the ramifications. It will be interesting to an AMD fan to see if this idea has traction.
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/12/16 12:54 PM

Having worked for more than one large (1000+) company over the years, I'll just say there are some common-sense security measures that STILL are hard sells. Encryption is beyond that.

Encryption is one that is rightly difficult to get approval for because of the overhead it introduces into administration. You need a support force adequate to the task or you will be crippled.

When the choices seem to boil down to implementing tight security with a large IT/security team to support all the issues or having a tiny team and skipping it, most companies choose the cheap route. Because investors.



The Jedi Master
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/12/16 07:04 PM

Quote:
AMD Gaming Evolved APP By Raptr No Longer Being Supported By AMD
...
Starting September 12th 2016, AMD is no longer bundling the “AMD Gaming Evolved App” by Raptr with builds of Radeon Software. The application will still work. AMD will cease to undertake any compatibility testing, install support or general technical support for this application, nor will it be available through Radeon Software or its installer. Previous builds of Radeon Software that include the “AMD Gaming Evolved App” dated before September 12th 2016 will remain intact and will not be affected. -AMD
...


I never used it. I don't trust apps that make independent changes in game settings (or any other nominally "user" settings). Moreover, AMD did mention it broke some games. Not unexpected from a 3'd party app.

Oh well, now that its gone, I don't have to "opt out" when installing driver updates.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/13/16 03:09 AM

wonder if I should blow all my AMD Points on random stuff then... hrmm..

also wonder what they would replace it with.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/13/16 09:36 AM

My main issue was that Gaming Evolved was 3'd party vs by-AMD. AMD did not have full control.

When it started breaking some games (so I have read), I was incredulous that AMD would make it a part of the AMD driver package. I expect my AMD drivers to only do "good things" that hold up the AMD brand name.

However, "AMD Gaming Evolved APP By Raptr" was "automatically" installed unless I opted out -- which I did because I felt it was "just one more thing to go wrong".

As previously mentioned, I have very few driver or graphics problems because I keep the AMD driver game-settings "vanilla". I only use in-game graphics settings to change in-game graphics (virtually always to "Ultra" or equivalent). I do this because games are virtually always debugged for vanilla driver settings but cannot always handle un-tested combinations of "optional" driver settings (or so I have read).

AMD does say one can still get the App and use it. Just they won't support it.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/13/16 10:10 AM

Quote:
AMD To Allegedly Price-Cut Radeon RX 470 Graphics Card To Tackle GTX 1050 Ti – Expected To Retail For $169 US

...Just for comparisons sake, the RX 470 has 2048 cores clocked at 1206 MHz and 4 GB of GDDR5 VRAM that comes in a 120W package. The GTX 1050 Ti comes with 768 cores clocked at 1392 MHz and 4 GB of GDDR5 VRAM. The card is expected to feature a TDP close to 75W. It’s quite evident from the the specs that the RX 470 is the faster solution but these are different architectures and what matters is the price to performance value of both of these cards...


Part of the problem is that retailers sell AMD RX4xx series cards for more than "suggested list price" (they do that with some Nvidia products also). More normally, products are sold at a discount -- not a "mark up". Just the way it goes right now because 14nm GPUs are the first substantial GPU performance/price change in 4 years -- and the market is not yet settled.

Speculative Article
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/13/16 05:29 PM

I never really used it for anything other than tracking gameplay, and it usually only worked with steam games etc, and had to mod the JSON database file to allow it to track DCS and a few other games,

I have a Ton of point though, as does my brother, so if AMD is dropping it, then its only a matter of time before the store to redeem points is disabled,

The Video Recording App was Meh, sometimes it worked, other times it didnt, OBS Works fine, but I'd rather AMD Develop a Driver level recording tool that will record and compress MP4 w/ minimal CPU usage and GPU Usage.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/14/16 10:18 AM

Quote:
TSMC’s 7nm tech is on track

...Volume production of 7nm is planned for 2018..

.. expects to ramp its 5nm process, which will also target mobile products and high-performance computing, in 2019...


5nm is some folks "theoretical minimum size" for Silicon. So, they are trying to get there. I have always ass-u-me-d, that whatever the theoretical minimum, some bright team will figure out how to beat it -- so, maybe 3nm is the true minimum?? At least until they get to 3nm - then shoot for 2nm smile

As noted previously, AMD is apparently skipping 10nm for CPU and GPU and jumping down to 7nm -- presumably to play catch up with Intel. Articles like these "give hope" to the AMD masses smile

Very Short Article
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/14/16 10:27 AM

Quote:
AMD’s New Polaris GPU Revisions En Route With A 50%+ Improvement In Perf/Watt

... new revision of Polaris 10 that’s will go into the embedded market will bring down the typical board power from 150W as is found in the RX 480 to less than 95W. .. will also improve clock speeds ..


They note: This improvement may not see the desktop right away -- because desktop is not as "power limited" as embedded battery powered. However, it may show up next year in a hypothesized RX-485, etc.

Article
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/14/16 12:55 PM

That's why they're working on things like quantum computing. They're getting down to the size of electrons here, and once you reach that you can't work with them anymore because uncertainty means 1's can randomly become 0's and vice versa and your effective speed will plummet as error correcting skyrockets.

I know there was talk of using photons, but I'm not certain it's practical.

More likely to improve speed they will need an entirely alternate way of creating processors than the electron-in-silicon we've been using for decades.



The Jedi Master
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/14/16 03:05 PM

Originally Posted By: Allen
Quote:
AMD’s New Polaris GPU Revisions En Route With A 50%+ Improvement In Perf/Watt

... new revision of Polaris 10 that’s will go into the embedded market will bring down the typical board power from 150W as is found in the RX 480 to less than 95W. .. will also improve clock speeds ..


They note: This improvement may not see the desktop right away -- because desktop is not as "power limited" as embedded battery powered. However, it may show up next year in a hypothesized RX-485, etc.

Article


Polaris 10 is dead after December, it was a stop gap for Vega, Vega will cover everything but the eSports Tier. Polaris 11 will continue afterwards.

Apparently P10 was just a Beefier Polaris 11,
Polaris 11 was the Initial Technical Operation Target of the Architecture, it was designed for lower Power, small chips, etc.

They Beefed it up and made Polaris 10, which was both a good and bad decision,

As it brought the theoretical power consumption improvements and low cost to Mainstream (ahead of nVidia), but it also had teething issues that cost it some sales at launch, and since P10 was only a Temporary stop gap fab until Vega and HBM2 were ready, AMD cant afford to Over Fab and have stock sitting around.

Once Vega enter mass production, Vega will Cover Performance, Mainstream and Value, While Polaris 11 will continue to cover HTPC/eSports.

Though the last CC'd Email I saw regarding some projects w/ Manufacturers, was that some SKU Based PC & Entertainment (SKU Based meaning pre-built and sold at retailers like walmart, sams club, costco, etc),

There are some plans to have Polaris 10 Embedded GPU's on their Proprietary Mainboards for their pre-built desktops and all in one PCs, and possibly Polaris 10 Powered laptop Graphics.

Polaris 10 / 480 is also still rumored to be in the XBO:Scorpio Console, so if they cleaned up the Architecture to run under 100w then it will benefit the consoles.

But for the Retail AIB / Card market, Polaris 10 is dead in 2 months, any fabs after that will be sent to Embedded / Retail SKU Customers (Dell, Microsoft, Alienware (Dell, lol) etc).

Vega will Give more Performance w/ Lower Power Consumption
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/14/16 03:27 PM

On that topic, I cant seem to get my GPU to go back to Idle w/ the new drivers either.

1 screen, all others unplugged, rift unplugged, still sitting at 500Mhz/1375 Mhz. Hrmmm....

Gonna Roll back this weekend I guess, and swap this lightning card with my other as primary just incase the card is acting up.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/14/16 08:57 PM

AMD Signed Deal with Alibaba to have AMD Radeon Pro run their Cloud Servers

AMD Shares Have Gone up 5% Since the Announcement this morning, to 131%
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/15/16 08:47 AM

Since FPS matters to hardcore gamers, Nvidia has a new VR feature that optionally adds FPS to games played on a monitor -- but,it is a trade off. So, one has to check if an FPS number is measured with "Multi-Res Shading" turned on.

I don't know if AMD GPUs can "use it" or if this is strictly an Nvidia-only feature -- seems Nvidia only right now. Personally, once FPS are "high enough", I would not sacrifice "picture quality for FPS quantity" -- but, that's me.

Quote:
...The Multi-Res Shading feature can project images into multiple viewports on a display while adjusting the resolution of each display independently and while this increased performance in VR titles like Everest VR, Raw Data and some other titles, it actually improves performance by up to 30 percent..

..[Nvidia] Multi-Res Shading somewhat cheats as it adds a border that is rendered in 60 percent resolution, or precisely, 40 percent lower resolution than the center main part of the screen. For example, if you are playing the game at 3840x2160 (4K/UHD) resolution, the MSR border is rendered at 2304x1296 resolution.


An Nvidia-supplied picture is worth a thousand words:




Article

More Detailed Optimistic Article
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/15/16 01:27 PM

Makes perfect sense for VR. Looks to be using Nvidia SMP so Nvidia only.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/16/16 09:11 AM

Quote:
OpenCAPI Brings Together IBM, AMD, Google and Several More for Heterogenous Computing

...Moore’s Law will be dead by 2020, according to experts, which will obviously require a worthy successor.. Thanks to the combined expertise of leading companies ranging from Google, AMD, IBM, HP, NVIDIA, and several others, a new specification called OpenCAPI has been announced, and it promises to increase datacenter performance by a significant margin while offering significant advantages in other scenarios...


Article
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/17/16 10:15 AM

A part of the gaming PC "bang for buck" calculation for Gamers.

Quote:
According to PC World, [AMD GPU supporting] FreeSync monitors are not only cheaper, but offer a wider range of vendors, screen size, refresh rate, and resolution [than Nvidia GPU supporting G-Sync monitors]..

..Look at the price list. LG’s [AMD] FreeSync monitor has several 1080p monitors under 30 inches diagonal with an ultrawide 21:9 aspect ratio, priced as little as $279. With [Nvidia] G-Sync, the only 1080p ultrawide monitor is a 35-inch curved panel from Acer with a much higher refresh rate and it costs $900. The cheapest ultrawide 1080p G-Sync monitor will set you back nearly $1000..

..Tom Petersen, Nvidia’s director of technical marketing admits that that the high cost to develop G-Sync monitors puts them into a pricier segment of the market. But it is supposed to be a premium product...


As frequently happens, AMD does well in a "bang for buck" scenario.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/17/16 05:34 PM

AMD GPUs continue to do well in DX12 -- particularly on a "bang for buck" measure.



DX12 is the future. So, if one is buying for the "long run" and has a "budget", AMD continues to look good. But, that's part of the AMD marketing strategy -- "bang for buck".

According to AMD statements, AMD knows Nvidia will do "whatever it takes" to finish first in the FPS competition (regardless of price or other things). Thus, AMD competes on price and other factors that improve gaming.

If one wants the highest FPS, period, buy Nvidia. For a more "balanced" GPU, buy AMD (according to AMD).
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/19/16 02:37 PM

debating if I should sell some of my AMD Stock, or wait and see what happens..

Also,
nVidia ... 1050/1050ti, will be manufactured by Samsung.... get your fire extinguishers ready (lol).

THat being said the whole Note 7 Ban is blown out of proportion, 17 Million units, 2 Dozen Incidents (some of which were insurance fraud incidents).

The phone was rushed, and apparently the internal charge circuit had a heat sensitive short,

One website got ahold of 20 Note 7s from the trash of a Service/Dealer store, 20 for 20, they caught fire when hooked to a charger and:
-Wrapped w/ a shirt
-Put in a Box in a warm room
-Left inside of a glass box outside

So there's that.. lol.


Then people started bandwagoning, "My Note 2 (TWO) Caught Fire. lol,then the washers and dryers.

And now people are Claiming Samsung SSDs and NVMe Drivers are bursting into flames...

shrug...
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/19/16 09:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Allen
AMD GPUs continue to do well in DX12 -- particularly on a "bang for buck" measure.



DX12 is the future. So, if one is buying for the "long run" and has a "budget", AMD continues to look good. But, that's part of the AMD marketing strategy -- "bang for buck".

According to AMD statements, AMD knows Nvidia will do "whatever it takes" to finish first in the FPS competition (regardless of price or other things). Thus, AMD competes on price and other factors that improve gaming.

If one wants the highest FPS, period, buy Nvidia. For a more "balanced" GPU, buy AMD (according to AMD).


The trouble with this sort of propaganda graph is that it doesn't actually show anything relative or even useful.

You don't play 'bang for buck' and there is no indication of performance......what frame rates is an RX480 getting on Battlefield 1 at ultra settings @ 4K resolutions? Fair enough....it has almost twice as much bang for buck as a GTX 1080 but if you're getting 15fps with the 480 and the 1080 is getting 40fps then you're still not going to be happy regardless how much bang you're getting in the first place. It's going to be the best part of unplayable. Can you put a price on value if minimum performance isn't met?

Bang for buck isn't going to give you 90fps at 1440p in a VR headset either.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/19/16 09:58 PM

Quote:
...The trouble with this sort of propaganda graph is that it doesn't actually show anything relative or even useful...


It nominally wasn't propaganda. It was an article at a site that is relatively neutral.

True, a "bang per buck" graph does not tell a gamer enough to know what to pick.

But, it does say, "take a look at this before you decide" -- if money is an issue.

My Reference RX-480 plays all my games fast enough at "ultra" (for that game) settings at 2K (1440p) resolution (I don't play "all the games" -- so, I'm not saying all games would do that well).

60fps is the fastest my monitor can refresh (like many monitors). And, I see 60 up there most of the time (have Steam set to show FPS all the time). Only if I add high-res 3d party textures and so forth in my games do I occasionally drop below 30. However, down to 15fps (true minimum, not average) it still plays almost smooth to me (my eyes may be slow). If I get 15fps on rare occasions, its okay and does not bother me. However, I realize others want a "perfect" experience at all times.

Some games (particularly flight simulations) are more CPU limited and the GPU matters less, but none that I am playing lately push my system.

For reference, some TV is 30fps and some movies are 24fps. Back in the day, home-filmed 8mm movies were 15fps and looked okay to most.

With a 60fps refresh monitor, I really couldn't make use of 90fps. I doubt many folks could tell the difference between 60 and 90 in a "blind test" -- I couldn't. However, for those that can, they should go for it.

All the foregoing to say, we all do what's fun and have different needs and desires. "Bang per buck" matters to some of us (not everyone) smile
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/20/16 07:51 PM

My point is that it doesn't matter what GPU you might look at buying......a graph that shows only bang per buck without any reference to performance is useless.

The graph in the posts above is absolutely propaganda.....its sole use is to show that the two AMD cards are far 'better' than the three Nvidia cards. Who in the right mind would use that information as any basis of buying a card other than someone blinded only by the AMD brand.

As for your TV/film 24fps mention, thats totally irrelevant in comparison to gaming. Its not the same at all due to the techniques used (mainly how shutter speed works together with motion blur). As you're also aware, maximum framerates aren't the be all and end. all........but minimum framerates can easily break a game - another important factor missing from
a graph that only shows bang per buck.

I have 60hz monitors too, but I also have a VR headset so 90fps becomes a very important number - being able to tell the difference between 60fps and 90fps is not part of it at all....and also a performance indicator that the graphs totally bypass.

If you look at other reviews of the RX 480 playing BF1 @ 4k in DX12 (what your graph is reflecting) you'll see that it gets an average under 30fps with dips well under which make the game unplayable as it stutters under the workload. You can see there how a 'bang per buck' graph doesn't show you the value you would really have......unless of course that value is measured in frustration and disappointment.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/20/16 11:09 PM

Well I Rolled back and still cant find an option to disable screens, lol.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/20/16 11:16 PM

edit: Found A way.. Hidden among windows settings..

At least the roll back allowed me to restore my GPU Power Profiles, (darn thing was idling at 500/1375 w/ no displays on, lol)

now it idles a cool 300/150

And no Flickering when running 3 screens.

(I think the flickering was the Power States being messed up)

Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/21/16 10:11 AM

Quote:
AMD Prepping $10,000 Vega 10 powered “Dracarys” Graphics Card With 1TB+ Of Memory

.. we’ll get a sneak peak at this Vega 10 powered graphics board as early as next month at Supercomputing 2016..

.. new 20+ FP16 teraflops VEGA 10 graphics engine which has more than double the graphics horsepower of Fiji In the Radeon Pro SSG..

.. is set to launch in the second half of next year. Some units will be available at an earlier date, for a cool $10,000. Dracarys is exquisitely unique that it has effectively no competition, simply because there’s no other product like it. Which means that AMD can charge for it as much as its customers are willing to pay...


No problem, the $10,000 price is only for the "first ones" -- merely wait a bit for the price drop.

I wonder what the "bang for buck" number is for this "commercial use only" Dracarys smile
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/21/16 10:32 AM

Based on initial somewhat speculative leaked information, AMD plans an RX 470D/SE to compete on "bang for buck" with GTX 1050 Ti. Speculation is that it will cost roughly $150? and launch in November?.

From the Vidiocardz site we get the following DX12 benchmark performance:




Article
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/21/16 02:09 PM

Originally Posted By: Allen
Quote:
AMD Prepping $10,000 Vega 10 powered “Dracarys” Graphics Card With 1TB+ Of Memory

.. we’ll get a sneak peak at this Vega 10 powered graphics board as early as next month at Supercomputing 2016..

.. new 20+ FP16 teraflops VEGA 10 graphics engine which has more than double the graphics horsepower of Fiji In the Radeon Pro SSG..

.. is set to launch in the second half of next year. Some units will be available at an earlier date, for a cool $10,000. Dracarys is exquisitely unique that it has effectively no competition, simply because there’s no other product like it. Which means that AMD can charge for it as much as its customers are willing to pay...


No problem, the $10,000 price is only for the "first ones" -- merely wait a bit for the price drop.

I wonder what the "bang for buck" number is for this "commercial use only" Dracarys smile


Because it has a 1TB SSD Built Onto it.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/21/16 07:54 PM

Quote:
Intel Core i5-7600K vs Core i5-6600K

...Both chips were tested on stock configuration and clock speeds. The Core i5-7600K bested the Skylake chip in all possible ways. The end result was 6.14% faster single-threaded performance and 9.12% faster multi-thread performance. In gaming, the Core i5-7600K was around 4% faster...


Intel's latest 4-core/4-thread gaming CPU is 10 roughly percent faster than the previous model in a CPU benchmark. However, that translates to only 4 percent faster in games (according to the above site).

The point: I expect AMD's Zen CPU to be much faster than the previous AMD model in a CPU benchmark. However, as Intel shows, an improvement in overall CPU instructions per clock or improvement in CPU clock rate does not directly translate to an equal improvement in FPS.

In my experience, in most games I've checked, only about half the CPU improvement shows up in a game (sometimes more sometimes less) -- roughly what the Intel CPU showed.

I still await Zen's advertised 40 percent improvement with "tempered optimism" -- that is, "I'll believe it when I see it" in a game smile
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/24/16 02:17 PM

From gamersnexus.net:

Quote:
AMD sent us an email today that indicated a price reduction for the new-ish RX 460 2GB card and RX 470 4GB card..

AMD's price reduction drops the RX 460 2GB to a $100 MSRP (from ~$110), with the RX 470 dropped down to ~$170 MSRP (from $180)..

The good news is that the market is responding as it should: AMD is adjusting its prices to compete with nVidia's new [1050] products, and that's a good thing for consumers. Let's just hope those prices stick [because re-sellers, e-tailers tend to overcharge for the new 14nm cards vs. suggested list price]. The new prices are expected to be in effect on 10/23.


Competition is good smile
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/25/16 09:40 AM

Quote:
AMD Reports Q3 2016 Earnings
Increased GPU sales offset decline in desktop CPU shipments

Last week, AMD posted its earnings report for Q3 2016, showing a revenue increase of 27 percent over the previous quarter and up 23 percent year-over-year..

..The company says the operating loss this quarter, compared to an $8 million operating loss in Q2, was due to a $340 million Wafer Supply Agreement (WSA) with GlobalFoundries. The agreement, amended in August, lasts five years and allows AMD to source its 7nm process node from GlobalFoundries...


Revenue up. But, net loss due to "investments" for the future -- including source for 7nm node.

Since the agreement with Global Foundries lasts 5 years, I "assume" that means 7nm will be coming in roughly 3 or 4 years. As other reports have indicated/speculated, AMD is skipping 10nm and going straight to 7nm for its next node.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/25/16 07:34 PM

Quote:
AMD CEO Confirms Zen Launching Early 2017 For Desktops, Q2 For Servers

AMD confirmed this past Friday that it’s launching its next generation family of enthusiast Zen based CPUs in early 2017. The new product line-up for desktops code-named “Summit Ridge” will be flagshipped by an eight core, sixteen thread CPU..

..The enterprise and server market is the most interesting for the company when talking about the impact of Zen’s introduction on its financial performance. It’s an extremely lucrative market with a significantly wider profit margin compared to the desktop and mobile segments...
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/25/16 08:12 PM

Nivida 1050Ti reviews are out. I scanned some GTX 1050Ti reviews that compare it to the RX-460 and RX-470.

I had expected the 1050Ti FPS to be comparable to the RX-470 -- since FPS is the Nvidia selling point. But, it isn't in the reviews I found. Its notably slower. While somewhat faster than the RX-460, its also significantly more expensive.

Yet, it did cause AMD to lower its RX-460 and RX-470 prices smile

Competition is good smile
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/26/16 03:08 PM

Quote:
AMD Stock Rallies More Than 14% in 48 Hours On Bullish Optimism Over Fundamental Growth Indicators
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/27/16 02:20 PM

Quote:
AMD will sell server CPUs at Happy Meal prices so you can supersize servers

..first decent Xeon alternatives in ages pressure [Intel]

..[Zen's] significantly-lower-than-Xeon prices mean a chance to supersize servers with other nice-to-haves..

..[AMD has] had some success in price-sensitive markets like government and education where buyers want maximum bang for buck ..

..AMD is on track with Zen if it can flawlessly execute a successful launch. No pressure


Promising news because AMD fans want AMD to successfully compete across markets -- so they can stay in business and keep prices lower for AMD fans -- oh, and everyone else smile
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/28/16 10:01 AM

Quote:
Apple announces [AMD] 14nm GPUs for its shiny new Mac Book Pro lineup

...the company has also introduced three dedicated GPUs for its MacBook Pro 15-inch variant called the Radeon Pro 450, Radeon Pro 455 and Radeon Pro 460. .. we expect at least two of these to be based on the Polaris 11 GPU...


Using 14nm AMD parts, Apple showed dramatically increased graphics performance (increased 57% to 130% depending on test) versus previous high end 13" and 15" Apple laptop models.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/28/16 01:11 PM

weren't the masses and some tech sites reporting on rumors that apple was going back to Intidia. (Intel/nVidia)
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/29/16 10:27 PM

AMR has some interest designs coming for future APUs.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/31/16 10:08 AM

While off topic for this thread, it would be interesting to some SimHQ folks with an EVGA 1070 or 1080.

Article
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 10/31/16 03:49 PM

only the ones made by Samsung....
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 11/02/16 10:13 AM

Just putting this here because its interesting -- no matter what hardware one has.

A pie chart of Windows version market share. Windows 7 still rules -- even though official support is done. Businesses did not want to change from W7, it is said (makes "dollars and sense"). Windows 10 has no downsides I have found (except no Windows Media Center support).

Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 11/02/16 01:10 PM

Win 10 is definitely taking down 8.1 and 8. Amazingly XP still has almost as many users as 8.1 and almost 4x Win 8.

Win 7 has become the next XP. After 15 years we still have over 8% using it. Win 7 will be 15 in 2024, I'm sure it's number will be 8% or so. Of course, XP will keep dwindling as the PCs that run it start to fail and replacement hardware fails to support it.



The Jedi Master
Posted By: Nixer

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 11/02/16 04:16 PM

Apple must have one heck of a profit margin on their PC's to even bother with that market share.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 11/02/16 05:13 PM

Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
Win 10 is definitely taking down 8.1 and 8. Amazingly XP still has almost as many users as 8.1 and almost 4x Win 8.

Win 7 has become the next XP. After 15 years we still have over 8% using it. Win 7 will be 15 in 2024, I'm sure it's number will be 8% or so. Of course, XP will keep dwindling as the PCs that run it start to fail and replacement hardware fails to support it.



The Jedi Master



Any "New" Systems with "New CPUs" will Require Windows 10+
Posted By: Bib4Tuna

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 11/02/16 05:15 PM

Originally Posted By: Allen
Just putting this here because its interesting -- no matter what hardware one has.

A pie chart of Windows version market share. Windows 7 still rules -- even though official support is done. Businesses did not want to change from W7, it is said (makes "dollars and sense"). Windows 10 has no downsides I have found (except no Windows Media Center support).




I always like to contrast what they show at the Net Market Share site with other sources, because they do not let you filter the data unless you pay.

Their data is global, which includes China and countries still in development. Which make Win XP and 7 still good alternatives, and OSX a very rare one in those locations.

Statcounter gathers similar data than NMS and allows you to filter the data. Filtering by US market provided no data, so I used the North America filter and got this:



http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-na-monthly-201509-201610

And you can see, it is more representative of the US market, with OSX in proximity to Windows (still below), and Windows 10 quickly closing the gap on Windows 7.

To further contrast, these are the current hardware stats for Steam. Gamers seem to have gone full blown on Windows 10. Remember this is gathered from a fraction of the 150-175 Million active accounts of Steam, so it is very representative of gamers worldwide.



Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 11/02/16 09:17 PM

Originally Posted By: Nixer
Apple must have one heck of a profit margin on their PC's to even bother with that market share.


A few years back I read that Apple made roughly 30 percent of the total industry profit selling computers (I think it was limited to that but may have included cell phones). Anyhow, at the time, I interpreted what I read to mean that Apple really "marks things up" relative to other companies.



Originally Posted By: Bib4Tuna
I always like to contrast what they show at the Net Market Share site with other sources...


Informative look at it thumbsup

Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 11/03/16 10:46 AM

Quote:
New AMD x86 Zen Blender Benchmarks Surface – Show Equal Performance To A 10-Core Intel Xeon E5 Chip


Benchmark Chart -- AMD near top of all CPU tested -- "shorter bar is better"

It was an AMD Engineering Sample test. BUT, they did not show how many cores in the AMD Zen engineering sample (anywhere from 8 to 32). The article (not linked) indicates Engineering Sample clocks are usually lower than the final clocks will be.

So, this news is not truly informative -- and the article is not worth reading. But, it is AMD news smile
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 11/04/16 03:56 PM

http://blenchmark.com/cpu-benchmarks
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 11/05/16 08:09 PM

Quote:
AMD Zen Based Summit Ridge Processor Family To Have Dedicated Overclocking Variants – Aimed at Enthusiasts and Overclockers

...The part will feature 8 cores based on the Zen architecture. These special, enthusiast-grade chips would ensure high OC margins but also ship with higher frequencies compared to standard 95W variants. The TDP would remain at 95W for the higher clocked variants given that these are cherry picked..

The special OC variants will be shipping at higher prices compared to regular 8 core variants and would require some decent AM4 motherboards to churn out their true potential. Last but not least, the chips are said to ship without any heatsink cooler, that would otherwise be available with normal variants..


AMD has usually "cherry picked" the top of the line CPU out of the "standard bin" of chips -- and given it a new part number. Its why I like to buy their best (most expensive) CPU -- its "hand selected". Not saying other manufacturers don't do the same.

The article indicates 40 percent more instructions per clock on these 8-core/16-thread Zen CPUs.

It all sounds good. But, it remains to be seen what the clock rate will actually be.

If roughly 4GHz for the "enthusiast" chip, great (that would be an improvement on my 8-core/8-thread FX9590 at 4.7-5.0GHz). If around 3.2GHz -- well, I will probably buy one -- but, I want more -- much more smile

Article
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 11/06/16 02:36 AM

Waiting is torture!!>....
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 11/06/16 10:10 AM

Quote:
Holiday 2016 Graphics Card Buyers Guide

[$100] If your budget is $100 or less we can’t recommend anything lower than the XFX Radeon RX 460 2GB for $99.99 on Amazon..

[$100-150] In the next bracket we recommend the EVGA GTX 1050ti 4GB graphics card..

[$150-200] At under $200 the XFX RX 470 is hard to beat.

[$200-250] ..XFX RX 480 4GB and get a bit of a boost over the RX 470. But, if you can find another RX 480 with 8GB for under $250 you need not hesitate..

[$250-300] ..my pick is the MSI Gaming X RX 480 8GB or the MSI Gaming X GTX 1060..

[$300-350] ,,At this price point the [AMD] Sapphire NITRO R9 Fury may be a last gen gem,,[$270 next 4 days at Newegg -- was selling for over $1400 list at one point]

[$350-500] ..the GeForce GTX 1070 of course..

[$500+] ..Our pick is the ASUS GeForce GTX 1080 ROG STRIX...


Article


AMD comes out looking good in this "bang for buck" "buyer's guide" article smile
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 11/06/16 11:14 AM

AMD have always been good bang for buck......this is not a new trend and what everyone would expect. The big problem and where they have always struggled is at the top end where they get pipped by Nvidia. You could also say from that guide that Nvidia come out looking very good too at the performance end of the spectrum.

Everyone wants competition driving lower prices so lets hope Vega bucks the trend........its not just about raw performance now, only the top end cards are driving VR and 4K performance at high settings and high framerates so there's more at stake than owning the 'best' or 'fastest' card just for the sake of it.

Posted By: Remon

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 11/06/16 11:17 PM

No, it's a myth that AMD was always bang for buck and not good in the top end.
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 11/07/16 02:49 PM

It depends on what time scale you look at.
Recently it's been b4b, but a decade back ATI was often beating nvidia and then back again as cards like the Radeon 9700 came out.

I miss those days, although I prefer the power of today's cards more. smile



The Jedi Master
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 11/07/16 05:33 PM

Quote:
GloFlo had decided to jump from 14nm to 7nm directly, while skipping the 10nm process because it believed that 10nm will help not much to improve power consumption and costs for clients.

“The 10nm node is more like a semi-generation process, similar to the previous the 20nm technology, which could not meet clients' requirements,”he said.

.. enter volume production in the first half of 2018 with initial clients including IBM and AMD.

“The 7nm process has a number of advantages, including multi-core, high-speed I/O capabilities, reducing power consumption by 60 per cent, upgrading performance by 30 per cent , cutting costs by 30 per cent doubling the yield rate per wafer, while providing 2.5D/3D packaging services,” he said.


Supports the rumor that AMD will skip 10nm entirely and go straight from 14nm to 7nm. Intel is making 10nm parts -- however, this article and others have surmised that 10nm may not offer enough improvement to be worth an upgrade over 14nm (except to Intel fans smile -- as an AMD fan, I understand smile ).
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 11/07/16 08:20 PM

Quote:
AMD Launches Radeon Pro WX 7100, WX 5100 & WX 4100 Workstation Graphics Cards – The Most Efficient Yet

..The Radeon Pro WX 7100 and WX 4100 will be available on-shelves next Thursday, Nov 10, at $799 and $399 respectively. The Radeon Pro WX 5100 will be available a week later on the 18th of November at $499...


These cards are similar to the RX480, RX470, RX460 -- but, for commercial use.
Posted By: Remon

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 11/07/16 08:58 PM

Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
It depends on what time scale you look at.
Recently it's been b4b, but a decade back ATI was often beating nvidia and then back again as cards like the Radeon 9700 came out.

I miss those days, although I prefer the power of today's cards more. smile



The Jedi Master


It's closer than the 9xxx series, Nvidia didn't have an answer for the 5870 till 6 months after its release, same with the 7970, and even with that they had the GHz edition ready to answer to the 680.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 11/08/16 02:50 PM

Quote:
[from Newegg]

PowerColor RED DRAGON Radeon RX 480 DirectX 12 AXRX 480 4GBD5-3DHDV2 4GB 256-Bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 CrossFireX Support ATX Video Card

$189.99
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 11/08/16 04:59 PM

tempting...

But with my budget still being in toilet at the moment, any money I spend now will block me from getting Vega/Zen.

That and I was able to squeeze some extra performance out of my 7970 Lightning in Single card mode, that put's it a hair behind the RX480
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 11/08/16 08:02 PM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
tempting... any money I spend now will block me from getting Vega/Zen...


I too will wait.

I seem to remember a relevant rumor: Next year the RX480 (Polaris Architecture) will be replaced with a similar priced Vega variant. So, RX480 (and just about everything else currently being sold by AMD and Nvidia) will be out-of-date by the middle of next Summer. We'll see. But, the rumor does say "wait" if you can (if I remember it correctly).
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 11/16/16 06:52 PM

Quote:
..we know for sure that AMD Zen processors will be launching in early 2017. The first processors to launch in the Zen Summit Ridge lineup would use the Zen SR7 branding. These are the top-end processors which will be selling at enthusiast level prices..

It’s shown in the roadmap that all Zen SR (Summit Ridge) processors will sell for higher than .. $220 US..

..We have also got details that AMD plans to launch their enthusiast AM4 platform, codenamed X370 .. the initial launch lineup would only include expensive parts such as the Zen SR7 processors and X370 based AM4 motherboards...
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 11/17/16 03:14 PM

I saw a Fury for $279 and a FuryX for $299 on sale... ..

Was sooooooooo Temped.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 11/18/16 11:15 AM

Quote:
...The search for silicon alternatives

..Over the past 62 years since the first working silicon transistor was made at Bell Labs, companies have used different doping concentrations to influence electron mobility on circuit designs. But over the past half-decade, the industry has been reaching a size limit on how small silicon transistors can be made. Germanium has been considered one possible alternative, as it offers higher electron mobility and is now being used in some CMOS devices...


Interesting to me personally that Germanium is again being considered. That was the material I was associated with in the 1980s. Though superior to Silicon in an electronic sense, it had too many manufacturing problems, then. Silicon was better in a practical sense.

Now it and other technologies are being considered for CPU and GPU because Silicon is near the very-end. Germanium is not "high on the list" according to the article. Carbon nanotube designs are being "pushed". They "seem" (to me) more dream than "near term" reality for CPU and GPU microcircuits. Maybe I'll be wrong about that -- nothing new in me being wrong -- occasionally smile

From the article, a chart showing the progress of Silicon transistors in microcircuits over the decades.





Article
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 11/18/16 03:37 PM

other than heat management, I'm wondering why they havent started stacking cores yet...
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 11/18/16 05:26 PM

Rumor Article:

Quote:
AMD Zen Summit Ridge Processors Rumored For 17th January Launch – Performance on Par With Core i7-6850K at $250-$300 US Pricing

..AMD Summit Ridge Processors With $250-$300 US Pricing To Have Performance Equivalent To Intel’s Core i7-6850K

..The Zen based chip will feature 8 cores and 16 threads. Intel’s offering has 6 cores and 12 threads..The Intel processor also costs more at $600 US..

..AMD Zen Summit Ridge Processors Currently Optimized Around 3.3 GHz Base and 3.5 GHz Boost – Up To 4.2 GHz Overclock Support, 1.5V..

..clock speeds are based off a rumor from a different source but Maxsun did quote it in their official statement so it might hold some legitimacy...


So, Zen may be here sooner than I expected. I can go with a 4.2GHz overclock given 16 threads and only $300 price. That would nominally provide a minimum of 25 percent more performance per core than my FX9590.

But, these are "rumors" -- though presumably better substantiated than most rumors.

Rumor Article
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 11/18/16 07:21 PM

They need 3D CPUs, but not horizontal, vertical.

In other words, you can't stack cores like pancakes. However, if you accept thickness you could line them up like books on a shelf. Place them like the fins on a heat sink. The material between (not air) would take the heat away.



The Jedi Master
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 11/21/16 07:07 PM

Quote:
[Intel RUMOR] Coffee Lake might bring six cores to mainstream

Chinese tech site BenchLife.info has got its paws on some slides which show details of Intel's 9th generation Core processors.

The slides show an Intel roadmap which includes 'Coffee Lake' processors. Intel wants to bring its six-core CPU designs to the mainstream [in Q2 2018]...


Maybe the rumored 8 core AMD Zen CPU coming out in a rumored 2 months for a rumored $300 (maybe more) will beat Intel to the punch by a year or more. We'll soon see how accurate the AMD rumors have been.

Competition is good smile
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 11/23/16 01:27 PM

Quote:
..AMD’s flagship GPU, the RX 490 will be announced and released on the same day in December

The RX 490 will be AMD’s 4K ready flagship that will be taking on the GTX 1080 at a (probably) similar price point..

Candidates for the RX 490: Vega 10 or Dual GPU?

..all of the evidence on it point to the fact that we are looking at a dual GPU solution, probably one based on a full version of Polaris 10...


A surprise release in time for Christmas? Or, just another rumor?

AMD has been working on a solution where two-GPU chips actually work like one single chip (not like SLI or CrossFireX). In that case, dual GPU is as good as single GPU. However, I think that solution is for Vega or Navi -- not Polaris (RX480).

Probably, RX490 will work like two crossfired RX480. However, I speculate (based on other rumors) it may have a "special" characteristic to allow one chip per eye on VR glasses.

Here's today's map of what seems to be coming based on rumor and speculation (with a couple facts thrown in). Personally, I'm waiting for Vega 10 with 4000+ shaders -- sometime next year (next year is coming soon smile ):

Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 11/25/16 01:15 PM

Quote:
AMD’s deal with Google could be a breakthrough

...FirePro S9300 x2 GPU for the search engine’s cloud platform..

..The Google deal is not to turn itself into an AMD only shop – Google’s cloud will feature both AMD and Nvidia GPUs. But if the rest of the cloud-based service providers follow a similar path, AMD will start making a lot of dosh..

..it forces Nvidia to drop its prices because it has to compete...


Quote:
...on November 15, the company announced a new cloud computing partnership with Google and the shares shot up to a high of $9.22..

..AMD shares have been doing well since February, when they were a miserable $1.83. Analysts had expected sales would continue shrinking in 2016, but AMD has posted $3.2 billion of net sales in the first nine months of the year, up four per cent, including a 23 per cent jump in the most recent quarter.


Making 500 percent on one's stock in less than one year ain't bad thumbsup

Competition is good smile
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 11/25/16 01:39 PM

AMD Marketshare for 2016 is Currently sitting at 29.1%

Compared to 17.5% this time last year
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 11/26/16 06:22 PM

Quote:
AMD Zen 8 Core SR7 Flagship To Sell For $499, Boost To 3.5Ghz & Outperform Intel’s $999 i7 5960X

According to a fresh leak, AMD’s upcoming Zen SR7 8 core flagship CPU will allegedly sell for $499 and outperform Intel’s 8 core i7 5960X. .. [features an] 3.2Ghz core clock and a 3.5Ghz turbo frequency..

The new chip carries the ID tag “AMD Eng Sample: 1D3201A2M88F3_35/32_N” and is an eight core, 16 thread variant...


Not really new news. Just an updated rumor/leak that claims to have spotted actual test results for an actual release version AMD SR7 CPU.

Anyhow, I asked my wife to NOT buy me a Christmas gift (just a card) -- just save the money. I'm hoping to go "all in" with a new AMD centered system in January/February. I'll see then if the rumors are mostly truths or mostly just rumors (I still remember the FX8150 debacle).

I still smile when I see this video (of course it helps that I do not understand the spoken German language):

Hitler finds out about the AMD Bulldozer benchmarks

By the way, my wife still uses an 1100T CPU for the reasons implied in the video.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 11/27/16 01:26 AM

Im seeing 3.4 GHz SR7 at 399/499 and 3GHz at 50/150 less.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 11/28/16 12:06 PM

Quote:
Vega 10 launching in 1H 2017

.. Vega 10 GPU lines will launch in the first half of 2017. AMD’s Radeon Technology Group might start briefings about the Vega 10 in December..

Vega 10 chip is very powerful .. 12 TFlops of single precision. This is faster than Nvidia’s flagship P100 GPU that is inside of the fastest machine learning supercompute solution currently available...
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 11/29/16 08:07 PM

Quote:
AMD Zen CPUs Getting Exclusive Preview On December 13th, Product Launch In January

An exclusive preview of AMD’s new “Zen” CPU

Join AMD at New Horizon on 12/13 at 3pm CST for an exclusive advance preview of our new “Zen” CPU ahead of its 2017 Q1 release. New Horizon is AMD’s fan-focused event, designed to engage our most dedicated customers...


Preview said to include "hands on" testing aspects and "Livestreaming" of the Preview event.

I don't expect many folks to "tune in" in "real time". However, later that day and the next, we should see some more definitive "write ups" regarding what Zen really is.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 11/30/16 03:48 PM

Quote:
...What we are curious about is if the [Zen] pricing rumors are correct. The highest-end 8-core will be $500, while a second, slower eight-core chip could be as low as $350. This will really scare the bejesus out of Intel as it is promising better performance for half the price.

Other rumours say that the six-core SR5 will hit the shops for $250 and the quad-core SR3 will be $150. Chipzilla gear will set you back $320 for its quad-core Core i7-6700K chip, and the cheapest six-core costs $380.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 11/30/16 06:09 PM

I'll get the slower one save $150 and either overclock it, or enjoy the serious performance boost over my FX/PileDriver :-)
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/01/16 11:16 AM

Zen 8core/16thread, 6core/12thread, and 4core/8thread CPUs will be competing with Intel "Flagship" Kaby Lake 4core/8thread devices -- that will also be launched in January.

Quote:
..Intel's 7th generation Core Kaby Lake desktop CPUs won't officially launch until January next year..

The flagship Core i7-7700K SKU is a quad-core CPU with support for Intel Hyper-Threading and works at 3.2GHz base and 4.5GHz maximum Turbo clock. It has 8MB of L3 cache, 95W TDP and comes with Intel HD Graphics 630 IGP..

..there aren't any noticeable IPC improvements as its performance is the same as an overclocked Core i7-6700K CPU [basically, i7-7700K beats the current "Flagship" i7-6700K by 3 percent in most tests]...


Interestingly, the i7-7700K 4core/8thread 3.2GHz base frequency is the same as the rumored Zen 8core/16thread version. The i7-7700K is rumored to "run hot" and need good cooling to hit the higher frequencies with a serious work load.

I assume i7-7700K 4core will out perform Zen 8core in many games. But, it may turn out closer than expected because the CPU is not the key driver of FPS in most games (the key driver of FPS is normally the GPU). We'll soon see.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/01/16 03:30 PM

7700Ks were hitting 100°c if you even tried to bump clocks...

privately we'll see Zens next week behind closed doors, publicly the 13th.

So I need to prep for $500+ being dropped.

CPU+MOBO+RAM Combo for starters.

Kinda wanna see how my 7970s due with a better supporting cast (PCIe Slots, CPU, RAM, Etc).

Likely be a completely new system, for VR / Gaming, while I'll retain my current for Studio stuff and avoid the headache of transferring licenses for everything.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/01/16 08:32 PM

Quote:
AMD CEO : We Can Get To 50% GPU Share, Vega & Relationship With Customers Is Key

AMD’s Vega GPU Family Officially Launching In The First Half Of 2017 – To Deliver Enthusiast Class VR & 4K Performance & Features

According to everything we’ve been hearing so far, Vega represents a significant architectural leap in performance and power efficiency. ..

Vega 10 is aimed squarely at the high-end, enthusiast 4K gaming, VR & professional markets..

Dr. Lisa Su, AMD President & CEO :
".. no reason we can’t be at 50/50 share over time, but it will certainly take some time to get there..."
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/01/16 08:46 PM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
..So I need to prep for $500+ being dropped.

CPU+MOBO+RAM Combo for starters...


Yes, I've been saving Amazon Prime points for a couple years now (maybe more) -- got $750+. I intend to use them up and then some for a new system (like you, CPU+MOBO+RAM) -- ass-u-me-ing that we don't have a "Bulldozer Event" smile

If all goes well, I expect to consider 32GB of fast DDR4 RAM ($$) on the new system. Seems like CPU and GPU memory standard quantities are "headed to the Moon" in new systems (at least its not the Sun).

The good/bad news is that at the current slow-slow rate of CPU computational speed progress, the 8core/16thread system may last 4 years frown
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/02/16 11:59 AM

Quote:
Broad Technology Sector Selloff hits Nvidia, AMD and Others

..Technology Selloff : What’s Going On?!

Looking at the S&P 500 and Dow, it’s pretty clear that there is a big sector rotation game going on. Tech is down with people piling into financial, energy and industrial stocks...


The stock market is for "Day to Day Trading" -- only rarely "Long Term Investing". "Trading" means "be ready to jump in or out" -- buy low, sell high, get the profit while its still there to be had. Perfect timing is rare -- so one could always make more or lose less -- if one could "read the future" accurately.

Since we print when AMD is headed up. Here's an article about how the whole sector is making a downward adjustment after huge growth over the last few months.

Personally, I see the Stock Market as being in a serious bubble, currently -- partly driven by Federal Reserve policy. The policy is not something that can be continued indefinitely -- already gone on too long. When they stop their policy, we may have a serious crash (many are predicting such a thing sooner than later). We'll see.

Article
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/03/16 12:13 AM

Fury and FuryX Prices Continue to Drop like a ton of Bricks...

Can Get a Non Water Cooled Fury for $214 w/ coupon code,
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/03/16 01:45 PM

Quote:
Possible AMD Radeon RX 490 Performance Numbers Show Up in DX12 AOTS Benchmark – On Par With High-End GeForce GTX 1080

..AMD Radeon RX 490 Expected Details:

The card will target the 4K resolution and be the go-to graphics card for VR.

Top cards will have a bus width greater than 256 bits.

It will be based on either a dual-GPU Polaris 10 design (rumor) or [single-GPU] Vega 10 (highly likely).

Its going to be close to the price point of the Nvidia Geforce GTX 1080...


A rumor based on a couple more bits of data than the previous similar rumor.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/04/16 11:02 AM

Quote:
AMD AM4 X370 Zen Motherboard Preview Coming December 13th At New Horizon Event

We’ve just learned that AMD is planning to show some of its high-end AM4 X370 motherboards for Zen In ten days.. ..the event could also include a showcase of new AM4 compatible CPU coolers...


As noted previously, the Zen CPU will be used "hands on" by some of the AMD fans present at the live-streamed event. The top Zen CPU is said to be available to buy at the end of January.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/05/16 11:45 AM

Quote:
[RUMOR] NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 3 GB To Be Updated With GP104 GPU

..there are rumors that NVIDIA will be shipping some units of the GeForce GTX 1060 with [partly defective] GP104 class [1080 class] GPUs. .. The new GP104 chip would be known as GP104-140. The GP104-140 GPU will be the full [1080] chip with many SM units disabled...


Interesting rumor. Some Nvidia 1060 GPUs will really be 1080GPUs, partly disabled. Up to now, the 1060 has been using "its own GPU chip".

This is normal practice for AMD and Nvidia -- make a top chip for the top card and use defective versions for lower end products (with defective parts "turned off"). In a few products, with a BIOS mod, it MAY be possible to turn some of the disabled "features" on again.

Fun for future Nvidia 1060 owners -- IF they could make a 1070 out of their 1060 (I'm not saying that's guaranteed possible).

In a similar fashion, I imagine 6 core and 4 core AMD Zen CPUs will be standard 8 core units with two or four cores disabled. While the top Zen CPU 8 core will be a "hand selected for top clock rate" 8 core (but ordinary otherwise).
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/06/16 10:29 AM

The rumor mill has the Zen chart filled out now -- no blanks for the 8 core flagship. The beginnings of the verified-facts begin to come out in nominally 7 days smile Hopefully, the SR5 and SR3 will have clocks above 3.2GHz -- we'll see.


Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/06/16 03:18 PM

Beats Intel at half the Cost is the only rumor that means anything to me at the moment, lol.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/06/16 06:56 PM

Quote:
AMD Readies Massive Radeon Software Update with Crimson Relive Drivers – Performance Increases For Radeon GCN Cards Across The Board

..huge emphasis towards performance and additional features..

.. Launching on 8th December


Lengthy Article
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/06/16 07:57 PM

i just got the latest ones to work properly.. err.. lol.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/06/16 08:52 PM

Can you confirm articles about Intel Signing Agreement w/ AMD to Put Radeon GPUs on Next Gen Intel Chips?
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/06/16 11:46 PM

There's also a new AoTS Benchmark w/ AMD Syntax Device ID that Performs with the GTX1080
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/07/16 02:01 AM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
Can you confirm articles about Intel Signing Agreement w/ AMD to Put Radeon GPUs on Next Gen Intel Chips?


I read that rumor -- or a rumor that sounded very similar a while ago.

Quote:
Intel Reportedly in Talks For A Cross-Licensing Deal With AMD for its GPU IP – Contract with Nvidia Expires in Q1 2017


Article

From Yesterday:

Quote:
AMD Radeon GPU tech will power Intel's next-gen iGPUs

AMD and Intel have reportedly signed a new agreement that will have Radeon GPU tech inside of Intel's next-gen CPUs..

The bigger news that has just dropped is that Intel and AMD have reportedly signed a new contract that will see AMD Radeon GPU technology inside of Intel's next-gen CPUs. AMD would provide Radeon GPU technology for Intel's integrated graphics, after years of Intel trying to make it work - and it looks like they just can't get their GPU game up to scratch, so they're going to their main rival... AMD. The news is coming from HardOCP boss Kyle Bennett, who wrote on the HardOCP forums: "The licensing deal between AMD and Intel is signed and done for putting AMD GPU tech into Intel's iGPU". Bennett continued, saying that "Intel in no way wants this to be public"....


And, I noticed Forbes had an article 2 hours or so ago.

But, its still people echoing people. So, its a credible rumor -- but a rumor.

Down the road, its AMD graphics that will separate AMD Zen based APUs from Intel CPUs (that are APUs). Hopefully, it will not cause losses in AMD CPU sales later on.

Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/07/16 12:58 PM

Today, another reverberation of the echo:

Quote:
Intel Allegedly Taps AMD Over Nvidia For New Graphics Licensing Deal

A Bit Of Background, Intel’s Original Deal With Nvidia


In 2011 Intel signed a graphics licensing deal with Nvidia which included a $1.5 billion dollar sum payed over five years to Nvidia. However, Intel never ended up producing chips with Nvidia’s graphics technology. On the other hand, there’s indication that the company’s new deal with AMD could in fact translate to Radeon technology inside upcoming Intel chips...


It all seems to be based on an older rumor (a version linked in post above) combined with a "post" by a person with "inside information". So, a lot of current articles based on on one person's say-so. Still, it seems to be a credible rumor.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/07/16 03:06 PM

because nVidia's Architecture was not designed to be used that way, where as AMD's was.

Intel quickly found that out the hard way, and hoped the deal they signed in 2011 would help nVidia oust AMD to help them.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/07/16 03:20 PM

Back in the 1970s and very early 1980s I was into designing/building my own desktop computer from scratch (not a kit or another guy's design) -- IC by IC, switch by switch, etc.

I vaguely remember that Intel had a large CPU "invention" team -- to make the "next big thing". It failed. So a couple really bright Intel engineers "virtually singlehandedly" successfully modified an existing Intel design to get us started on the path we are still on (CPU wise).

All that to say: Intel is big. But, it makes "Big" mistakes too -- based on my following their history. The Nvidia deal may be just another one.

As noted above, I hope AMD is not making a mistake by giving Intel the "right" to "bury" AMD by making an equally good APU -- as I figured, long term, AMD had the advantage because its all going to be APUs in the future -- and great graphics would be the determiner of the winner.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/07/16 04:03 PM

RE AMD / Intel Contract for Patent Use / IP:

- AMD's Discrete x86-64 Architecture supports being on Die w/ CPU Cores, and Using Shared Memory.
(AMD Prev. Stated a GCN Block+Controllers Could Be on Die w/ Intel's iSeries Easily)

- nVidia's does not

Intel Signed a deal in hopes they could team with nVidia to put AMD further Behind, was a Win Win fr both Intel and nVidia,
But Backfired in terms of iGPU Development for Intel, no iGPU for Intel was ever Fab'd w/ nVidia's IP, and IntelHD Graphics Continued to lag behind in keeping up with AMD APU's.

Instead they paid nVidia for 5 years for nothing, which only aided in nVidia's aggressive R&D Budget, which AMD cannot match.
So it Helped nVidia more than Intel.


However if Zen/Zen+ Finally catches up w/ Intel. ( as rumors Suggest )

Then we'll have balance between the Light and Dark Sides again, and both companies will have to price their products competitively.
Then it will be down to out of Box Performance, and Right now, Looking at "Rumors" and "Leaks", AMD's Zen APUs will easily Stomp any Mobile or Low Power Intel CPU+HD Graphics Combo.

Intel will likely use AMD's Architecture to match AMD's APU Line.

And AMD will continue it's business plan of Regaining Marketshare from Team Green, by taking % Previously Held by Intel IGP/HD Graphics,

So Every Intel Next Gen Chip sold w/ Radeon IGP is another System Running AMD Graphics.

Not Only would Intel Benefit on the Graphics Side, But on the Video Rendering, Transcode/Decode, and Using IGP for Parallel Tasks as well compared to Performance of the latest IntelHD IGP in those tasks.


Originally Posted By: Allen
Back in the 1970s and very early 1980s I was into designing/building my own desktop computer from scratch (not a kit or another guy's design) -- IC by IC, switch by switch, etc.

I vaguely remember that Intel had a large CPU "invention" team -- to make the "next big thing". It failed. So a couple really bright Intel engineers "virtually singlehandedly" successfully modified an existing Intel design to get us started on the path we are still on (CPU wise).

All that to say: Intel is big. But, it makes "Big" mistakes too -- based on my following their history. The Nvidia deal may be just another one.

As noted above, I hope AMD is not making a mistake by giving Intel the "right" to "bury" AMD by making an equally good APU -- as I figured, long term, AMD had the advantage because its all going to be APUs in the future -- and great graphics would be the determiner of the winner.



Intel Also Plays Dirty, and the Penalty they paid for that does not equal the amount AMD, CyRix, IDT, RiSE, and ViA lost when Intel Broke their Agreement regarding x86 Licensing and Ditched everyone else and Left Everyone on Socket 7 without warning.

Not to mention the Direct Attempts to Sabatoge AMD through Compiler and other Means, which that penalty also does not add up to potential revenue and company losses.

Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/07/16 04:48 PM

Yes, Intel's transgressions are the main reason I'm an AMD fan. Intel needs competition to "keep it in check". As far as Intel products, they're good (now -- they weren't for a while -- during which they used subterfuge to keep competitors down). But, that's just me giving my opinion smile

Competition is good smile
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/08/16 12:55 AM

More competition on the Server front:

Quote:
Qualcomm sampling world’s first 10nm 48 core server SoC

...Developed from the ground up, based on Qualcomm in house developed Falkor 10nm CPU, the new Centriq 2400 series started shipping to major customers and it is expected to be commercially available in the second half of 2017...


According to today's articles, Intel has 97 percent of the server market. Both AMD next-generation server chips and, now, Qualcomm server chips will hit the market later next year.

The articles imply Intel prices have been high due to virtually no competition. That may change, the articles speculate. Of course, Qualcomm also gives AMD another server competitor besides Intel.

Competition is good smile
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/08/16 09:58 PM

Quote:
AMD Vega To Debut January 2017 At CES, Secret Preview Happening Now

..The specifications for AMD’s upcoming flagship Radeon graphics card and Fury X successor based on Vega 10 have been leaked.. 4096 next generation V9 cores and an unbelievable 12 teraflops of compute performance. Which puts it ahead of the 11 teraflops of Nvidia’s top dog, the $1200 GTX TItan X...


Quote:
AMD Officially Launches Biggest Radeon Software Package Ever – Crimson ReLive Edition 16.12.1 Available For Download Now


EDIT: 511MB on my hard drive. New interface for install. I chose clean install -- wipes the old drivers off the drive and installs the new ones. It all seemed to work in the game I'm playing now (Skyrim SE). I did not "see" any difference. But, in some newer games FPS is supposed to increase by several percent.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/09/16 12:22 AM

The new Vega 10 is rumored to be the "go to" GPU for VR. BUT, what "good" games will feature VR?? IF ANY???

Here's a developer who thinks real good games with real good VR are not around the corner. Sure, there will be many short apps, there will be a few games. But, the key word is "few". Something to "think about" before spending hundreds on a top VR setup -- and see if there are opinions other than the one in the article.

Quote:
DayZ Creator: Early Access Ain’t All It’s Cracked Up To Be; There’s No Money in Virtual Reality


Article

The Original Complete Statement Article

As he says, in his own words:

Quote:
Prediction: Without the subsidies of exclusives/subsidies less studios will make VR games

There is no money in it. I don't mean "money to go buy a Ferrari". I mean "money to make payroll"...
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/09/16 09:40 AM

Quote:
AMD releases Radeon Software Crimson ReLive drivers


Article with AMD Slides

The above article includes the AMD slides shown for the new driver. The driver has some notable new features and the slides give a good synopsis.
Posted By: Bib4Tuna

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/09/16 02:34 PM

Originally Posted By: Allen
Quote:
AMD releases Radeon Software Crimson ReLive drivers


Article with AMD Slides

The above article includes the AMD slides shown for the new driver. The driver has some notable new features and the slides give a good synopsis.


I just had to post about this, because these drivers are really remarkable for me.

10-20% gains across the board for DX11 games, combining my 390X Nitro, Freesync Monitor and the new Chill option turned on (1080p, 144Hz). Temps stayed in the 60's under high load. DX12 and Vulcan had improvements too, but not as dramatic.

I just had an ARMA 3 session, in Altis, and I have never played it so smooth (100 FPS and above). Upped most of the settings to Ultra/Very high and I lost only 1 FPS.

Dishonored 2, Skyrim SE, Shadow Warrior 2, GTA V - All gained in performance and smoothness.

Planning on running some tests recording on ReLive this weekend.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/09/16 02:36 PM

I updated my VR post just above. Has link to original developer/author's article.

Makes me think I still want only a real good headset that I can wear sitting in a chair -- not a full VR setup.

I would only use it as an inutitive "wrap around" replacement for "Eyfinity" multi-screen and TrackIR5. I would NOT use it standing up in an empty room.

Good news is that simple "sit in the chair" 3D glasses (semi-VR) are going to be much much cheaper, apparently. And, I could use them with most games.

Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/09/16 04:28 PM

a First Person Shooter/RPG VR Experience I would say Requires more than just a headset, The standing rigs w/ the motion pressure plates on the bottom

now your talking another $500-$5000+.


For VR< I'll Limit My Games to Sit Down Simulations (Flight Sims, Space Ship Sims, Racing/Driving Sims).

RPGs moving will sitting causes nausea, same with FPS's specially those that do not use separate movement options for body/head.

Sitting in a recliner and watching movies on a big screen is nice as well.

I wish Netflix, HBO and all them had apps, outside of Oculus store.

I can use Media Players to play MP4/VC1 files, but I'm not gonna convert my entire collection of DVD/BluRays to DVD.

If Anything Xbox One Support for VR should work fine, since the Windows 10 APP Supports it already, Being able to plug headset into Xbox One and just sit in large room w/ screen and watch movies via Apps and disc media would work alot better.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/09/16 04:32 PM

Originally Posted By: Bib4Tuna


I just had to post about this, because these drivers are really remarkable for me.

10-20% gains across the board for DX11 games, combining my 390X Nitro, Freesync Monitor and the new Chill option turned on (1080p, 144Hz). Temps stayed in the 60's under high load. DX12 and Vulcan had improvements too, but not as dramatic.

I just had an ARMA 3 session, in Altis, and I have never played it so smooth (100 FPS and above). Upped most of the settings to Ultra/Very high and I lost only 1 FPS.

Dishonored 2, Skyrim SE, Shadow Warrior 2, GTA V - All gained in performance and smoothness.

Planning on running some tests recording on ReLive this weekend.


if Re-Vive does what I think it does, it'll be clearer picture and less performance hit than anything else out there (OBS, Fraps, Etc etc).

It takes video stream directly from the frame buffer and uses the Hardware H264 Block to compress the video.

newer GPUs can use HEVC
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/09/16 09:15 PM

I just LOL'd at Kyle's plea to AMD at the end of his Kaby Lake "what a letdown" preview.

"Hey, AMD, would you kindly make Intel actually care about innovation again by providing some real competition seeing how pointless Kaby Lake is compared to Skylake?"



The Jedi Master
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/09/16 09:59 PM

Can I get a link to that?.. lol..
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/10/16 12:41 PM

Quote:
AMD Zen 16 Core [Server] CPU Pictured, Ready For Prime Time

..This particular sixteen core chip is only one of several variants, the highest end of which comes in a 32 core, 64 thread configuration. Which is the largest core and thread count in x86 CPU history. Easily outnumbering the 24 cores of Intel’s largest server processor to date, the E7-8890 v4..

..a single Zen core delivers double the performance of a Bulldozer core and uses less power. The effort to build a new core from scratch paid off...


Talking about server CPUs in the above. The article rumored/speculated that AMD made a conscious decision NOT to compete hard against Intel in servers for the last 3 years or so (because AMD had nothing competitive to compete with). Rather, AMD put their effort into designing a CPU that could compete with Intel. The article thinks AMD was successful. We'll see.

Server sales would keep AMD in business and competing. However, Servers are not PCs. It remains to be seen how well Zen competes in a PC (which is the focus of SimHQ hardware enthusiasts).

Competition is good smile
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/11/16 05:52 PM

Quote:
AMD Radeon RX 460 Unlock is Here – Jump From 896 To 1024 Stream Processors, Gain a 12.5% Performance Boost

Users of the Radeon RX 460 graphics card are in for a good news. Author of overclocking.guide, der8auer, has managed to unlock the Radeon RX 460, providing a free performance upgrade to users..

..The unlocked card gains you 128 more stream processors and also 8 additional TMUs. This results in a total of 64 TMUs and 1024 stream processors. The performance results speak for themselves as we the site reports improvements up to 12.5% which is a great increase..

.."Note: It’s always possible that something goes wrong if you flash the BIOS of your card. In addition it’s possible that not all cards can be unlocked and that you might damage the card. Flash at your own risk!"...




Article

Tampering (having fun) with "unlocking" is risky. You could "brick" your card -- depending on the method used. Still, some of us here on the SimHq Hardware & Software forum are willing to take the risk occasionally. No hard feelings if you want to "leave well enough alone" with your RX460 thumbsup
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/12/16 01:57 PM

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2016/12/09/intel_kaby_lake_core_i77700k_ipc_review

Quote:
With Kaby Lake, Intel has just given the big middle finger its fan base, loyalists, and every hardware enthusiast in the world. Intel has just told us, we do not matter to its corporate structure any more. To the enthusiast, Kaby Lake in its Core i7-7700K form is nothing more than what Francois promised two years ago. I would not spend my money on Kaby Lake simply in protest.

AMD, do we matter? Lisa Su? AMD has a hugely influential and substantial fanbase waiting to wave your flag again. We all still have that Blue Core Thunderbird and 9700 Pro love in our hearts. We are older now and have lots of money to spend on tech and its toys. We are established, influential, and well informed, and all our family members and all their friends ask our advice on computer purchasing and then it trickles down. That is the HardOCP reader profile. Wouldn't you love to have us once again direct all those purchasing dollars with a comment like, "Just look for the AMD Zen (and beyond) badge and you will be getting a quality product."

If we have learned anything this year, it is that grass roots support is monumental. God knows us enthusiasts can market better for AMD than Roy Taylor can any day. AMD, the door is open, give us a reason, please.





The Jedi Master
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/12/16 05:32 PM

Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
Quote:
...AMD, the door is open, give us a reason, please.


Interesting. Thanks for the link.

I think 5GHz is nearly the limit for a current technology CPU. So, it comes down to "instructions per clock", "cores", and "threads" (for newer applications -- as noted in the article). Zen seems to be challenging in the "cores and threads" department. We'll see regarding IPC and maximum overclocked Clock speed.

In the meantime:

Quote:
AMD Vega Performance Demoed, Faster Than GTX 1080 – Features 8GB of HBM2 & 512GB/s Of Bandwidth

..In a head to head performance comparison with an overclocked GTX 1080..

..No Vega optimized driver was used. Despite this the consumer Vega graphics card was able to outperform [an overclocked] GTX 1080 running at 1911Mhz by 10%. ...


Article
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/13/16 02:11 AM

Forgive me for not getting excited just yet......the 10% improvement in the article (conveniently missing from the title is via Vulcan) benching Doom 4. Let's see the comparative tests because that particular combination can give AMD up to a 35% advantage in which case the 10% isn't going to be a lot or probably 10-20% slower than the GTX1080 in other titles.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/13/16 12:19 PM

The embargo on AMD news and private showings of Zen is to be lifted by AMD today (at 4pm EST).

However, some stuff is already coming out. For example, a Zen 8core/16thread will be named "Ryzen". A site is already picturing AMD slides a bit early.




Article/Slides
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/13/16 12:25 PM

Quote:
Watch AMD’s Zen “New Horizon” Livestream Here – AMD Summit Ridge And Ryzen Enthusiast CPU Live PC Demos


A Site with Livestream of AMD Event Later Today

I'm not a big "livestreamer" myself. However, tomorrow we ought to have many published "opinion pieces" with a recapitulation.

Quote:
...Fans, media, and investors alike can view the real-time event video webcast on AMD’s website at www.AMD.com/NewHorizon. A replay of the webcast can be accessed a few hours after the conclusion of the live event and will be available for one year after the event. The replay of the webcast will also be accessible on the AMD YouTube channel. via AMD...


AMD Official LIvestream Site
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/13/16 01:33 PM

Quote:
Dark days ahead for Nvidia and AMD

..GTX 1080 and 1070 card inventory levels have risen to two to 2.5 months in the channel versus targeted levels of one to 1.5 months due to weaker-than-expected sell-through in late October and November..

..Given the excess supply, GeForce GTX 1080 pricing dropped 10 per cent in the channel...

[Similar happenings are rumored for AMD]


The pundit predicting/guessing that Nvidia and AMD GPU "sale prices" may be low in January/February as Nvidia and AMD try to move "excess inventory". So, an opportunity for folks to buy a GPU cheaper -- maybe in January.
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/13/16 01:42 PM

This is just a generic complaint, not on AMD in particular as much as all companies, but I'm really fatigued by marketing labeling things with a common word and then misspelling it in some supposedly "hip" way so they can TM it.

Ryzen? Are we supposed to say that like risen, or risin'? rolleyes There is no way they didn't have a better name for this that they passed over in favor of this one.

Of course, I think we can all agree that AMD marketing is possibly some of the least effective in the tech industry.



The Jedi Master
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/13/16 02:18 PM

Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
..Ryzen? Are we supposed to say that like risen, or risin'? rolleyes ...


One pundit said "Risen" as in "he has risen". My first pronunciation-try was apparently incorrect smile

Probably, at the AMD event today (Livestream 4PM EST), an AMD representative will "say the word" -- correctly, we hope smile
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/13/16 03:51 PM

Rye - Zen
Rise-Zen
Risen


Who Cares, as Long as it performs.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/13/16 09:22 PM

http://hothardware.com/news/amd-to-attac...etails-revealed
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/13/16 09:44 PM

Watched the first 15+ minutes or so. Zen seems slightly better than I expected. Seems like more than a mere Intel "look alike" -- really may be "the next thing" as far as CPU design is considered. In fairness, I assume Intel is also trying to incorporate similar features.

Moreover, the AMD CEO hints that, for once, they are "underselling it" just a bit. It should be slightly better when finally launched (unlike Bulldozer -- which had been way oversold). I do like the 3.4GHz base frequency MINIMUM (plus boost to higher frequencies) for the Ryzen line up (considering 8cores/16threads run hotter than 4/8). Maybe the "hand picked" highest end Ryzen will be above 3.4GHz base clock.

We'll see when the "independent" test reports come out (after Ryzen launch in January).

And, they explained the name (Ryzen) smile
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/13/16 11:09 PM

i got so much swag, I almost had to buy a 2nd suitcase for flight home... in flight wifi sux.. took 3 minutes to load simhq forum.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/14/16 10:01 AM

The AMD Ryzen 8core/16thread CPU articles today are, so far, not adding much "secret or new" information -- versus watching the presentation.

In a nutshell, the Ryzen at minimum stock clocks with no boost equals the Intel Core i7-6900K (8/16) CPU that sells for about $1050 today at Amazon. And, the power used is much lower than Intel in the same head-to-head tests. The Intel CPU ran at stock 3.2 to 3.7GHz -- supposedly AMD did not "mess with it". Ryzen ran at a constant 3.4GHz.

Though the Intel CPU they used in tests was "the last model" (but only one available today), we know that the newer Intel models coming out in January do not show improvement in IPC. So, the tests were fair in that sense.

Hopefully, the "hinted" improvement in Ryzen by time of release actually comes to pass and it actually performs as well as the AMD "sales pitch" implies.

No doubt Ryzen will be cheaper than the Intel price of $1050. But, I hope a LOT cheaper for it to be a good choice for my gaming PC.

I won't be shocked at a list price of $500 for the top Ryzen. But, based on how the RX480 pricing went, I need to "jump on" the first CPUs being sold at that price, because the price may rise after the first CPUs are sold at "list price".

Why my expected rise in price above $500? NO COMPETITION from Intel at that price point in 8core/16thread CPUs. Whoops. We need competition smile

Competition is good smile
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/14/16 01:51 PM

The top Intel CPUs are always a joke. You don't get what you pay for, you get 10% more for 300% the price. Only suckers buy those.

The sweet spot has always been in the $300-$400 range. I bought an i7-2600K for that within a month of release and it lasted me for years. I finally replaced it recently with an i7-6700k for about the same price and I suspect it will also last years--GPUs and storage are the bottlenecks now, not the CPU or RAM. I might have been able to get away with using the 2600k still if I'd been more aggressive in OC'ing it.

Synthetic benchmarks are useless. When they showed things like Haswell doing better than Sandy Bridge, yet using it in actual games resulted in improvements that fit within the margin of error for the benchmarks, I both double-flipped off and mooned every synth benchmark in existence and vowed to never again give an ounce of credit or respect to any of them.

A new CPU needs to be tested against an entire suite of games, from FPS to strategy to sims on the air and ground to get a good idea of its actual worth. Unfortunately, previews are not that.



The Jedi Master
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/14/16 03:12 PM

Games dont really use the CPUs like Benchmarks or Multi-Threaded Transcoding...

That being said, the Fact that a Ryzen CPU could fluidly drive two TitanX GPUs w/ Games at Max Details.

Something an FX would Struggle with due to draw calls.
Posted By: SacaSoh

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/14/16 04:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
The top Intel CPUs are always a joke. You don't get what you pay for, you get 10% more for 300% the price. Only suckers buy those.

The sweet spot has always been in the $300-$400 range. I bought an i7-2600K for that within a month of release and it lasted me for years. I finally replaced it recently with an i7-6700k for about the same price and I suspect it will also last years--GPUs and storage are the bottlenecks now, not the CPU or RAM. I might have been able to get away with using the 2600k still if I'd been more aggressive in OC'ing it.

Synthetic benchmarks are useless. When they showed things like Haswell doing better than Sandy Bridge, yet using it in actual games resulted in improvements that fit within the margin of error for the benchmarks, I both double-flipped off and mooned every synth benchmark in existence and vowed to never again give an ounce of credit or respect to any of them.

A new CPU needs to be tested against an entire suite of games, from FPS to strategy to sims on the air and ground to get a good idea of its actual worth. Unfortunately, previews are not that.



The Jedi Master


I'm with a 3570k@4,1ghz the last 4 years and don't feel the need to change the CPU, just updating the GPUs and everything is fine. This chip is so good that will probably wait intel to release their 2nd or 3rd generation quantum-based CPU before upgrading.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/14/16 04:34 PM

Im Hoping the RYZEN will last me at least 6+ Years...
Posted By: BlueHeron

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/14/16 10:58 PM

Even 3 years would be OK if the AM4 socket supports the next generation of Zen+ CPU's.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/15/16 07:13 PM

A note for Intel Fans regarding the I7-7700K overheat issue: It seems solvable.

Quote:
...Intel Core i7-7700K High Temperatures Could Be Caused By Poor TIM – Temps Improve After Delidding

The forum member who goes by the name of “RichUK” managed to acquire a retail sample of the Intel Core i7 7700K processor. Several overclock runs were posted and the user went as far to delid the chip and apply new TIM (Thermal Interface Material). The results are shocking as it may proof that Intel has once again used poor quality TIM on their processors...


The I7-7700K will arrive in January (it is said). I assume some SimHQ folks will buy one. If one is into overclocking, hopefully the article will provide some help.

Article
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/15/16 07:46 PM

dunno why they still use TIM Goo...

There are so many better options now w/ non-electrically conductive metals that high a crazy high thermal conductivity.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/16/16 09:39 PM

AMD continues to show "competitive" products for next year.

Quote:
AMD’s Vega Cube Is A 4×3 Inch 100 TFLOPS Monster – Meet The Mini-Nuke Of Supercomputers

..A small, 4×3 inch, quad GPU cube with one hundred TERAFLOPS of FP16 compute and half that in FP32. To put that figure into perspective, Nvidia’s liquid cooled Drive PX2 AI supercomputer for autonomous, driverless, cars delivers 16 TFLOPS of FP32 compute and 8 TFLOPS of FP16 compute. That’s less than one sixth of what the Vega cube is capable of. And while the [Nvidia] Drive PX2 is a large box meant to go inside the trunk of a car, the [AMD] Vega cube [literally] fits into the palm your hand..


Article
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/17/16 04:55 PM

http://hothardware.com/news/see-how-your-cpu-stacks-up-against-amd-ryzen-open-source-tool
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/17/16 05:30 PM



Since I have Blender 2.78a installed for creating game modifications, I gave it three runs.

Ryzen 8core/16thread CPU at 3.4GHz was more than 3 times as fast as my FX9590 8core/8thread at 4.7GHz. Windows 10 task manager indicated nothing running in the background -- but, something might have been going on that task manager did not report.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/18/16 12:11 AM

Ryzen has updated Extensions.

I had about the same, Ryzen Stomped my 5.31 GHz Score by more than 3.4x
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/18/16 11:48 AM

On the competition front, Nvidia is readying its "answer" to Vega for release in the same time frame as Vega (which we all expected Nvidia to do):

Quote:
NVIDIA Confirms GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Pascal Enthusiast 4K Graphics Card – GTX 980 Ti Owners First To Avail Pre-Order or “Step Up” Offers


The rumor/leak article indicates (to my reading) that FPS (in DX11, 12) will probably be the main target -- possibly, as usual for Nvidia, at the expense of some more forward looking features like Vulcan and Compute support. So, Vega may be a more "rounded" product able to do many (not necessarily all) of the things one expects from a modern graphics card just a little better than the Nvidia product -- we'll see.

The article indicates the Vega vs GTX1080Ti battle may come down to price and who gets to market first (and, of course, "fandom" smile ).

Competition is good smile

Article
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/19/16 02:45 PM

I will say that after 30 years of gaming and being in the business, I still don't give a damn what it can do beyond gaming. smile



The Jedi Master
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/19/16 03:08 PM

Quote:

...
AMD RYZEN ZEN Based CPU Score in Cinebench R15:

In Cinebench R15 benchmark, the AMD RYZEN chip scored 1188 cb points in the CPU rendering test. The Core i7-7700K scores 966 points at stock and 1083 points when overclocked to 5 GHz as seen in the latest leaked benchmarks. The Core i7-6900K processor scores up to 1500 cb points while the Core i7-6950X flagship CPU scores beyond 1800 cb points at stock clocks. [My 8core/8thread FX9590 at 4.7GHz scored 722]

AMD RYZEN ZEN Based CPU Score in Fritz Chess Benchmark:

In Fritz Chess benchmark, the chip scores a relative score of 36.86 points and 17693 Kilo Nodes per second. Intel’s Broadwell-E processors such as the Core i7-6900K score 22500 points in the same benchmark with the top 10 core [20 thread] Core i7-6950X scoring more than 24000 points. The relative speed was not available for the Intel processors.
...


Ryzen benchmarks wherein Ryzen scores a bit less than Intel counterparts. Thing is, some benchmarks use compilers that favor Intel architecture -- sometimes dramatically. Moreover, the exact test conditions were not spelled out and the CPUs were NOT tested "Head to Head". Rather, Ryzen data was compared to Intel data from other sources -- that may have been obtained under different conditions.

Thus, things may change with some other benchmarks from other testers and "head to head" testing. On the other hand, I won't be shocked if Intel wins many -- I merely expect the AMD scores to be "much more competitive" than they used to be.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/19/16 05:12 PM

Originally Posted By: Allen
On the competition front, Nvidia is readying its "answer" to Vega for release in the same time frame as Vega (which we all expected Nvidia to do):

Quote:
NVIDIA Confirms GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Pascal Enthusiast 4K Graphics Card – GTX 980 Ti Owners First To Avail Pre-Order or “Step Up” Offers


The rumor/leak article indicates (to my reading) that FPS (in DX11, 12) will probably be the main target -- possibly, as usual for Nvidia, at the expense of some more forward looking features like Vulcan and Compute support. So, Vega may be a more "rounded" product able to do many (not necessarily all) of the things one expects from a modern graphics card just a little better than the Nvidia product -- we'll see.

The article indicates the Vega vs GTX1080Ti battle may come down to price and who gets to market first (and, of course, "fandom" smile ).

Competition is good smile

Article




lol, Pretty sure I called a 1080 Ti long ago,

now 1080 and titan owners will feel some type of way because their purchase is now either overpriced or underperforming, or both.
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/19/16 09:34 PM

As does anyone who buys something and then waits 6 months.



The Jedi Master
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/21/16 12:21 PM

Quote:
Vega architecture will bring multiple cards

Not just at the high end

[Rumor] Vega architecture will be introduced into the complete range of AMD's graphics cards. Our knowledgeable industry friends have told us that you can expect top to bottom designs based on Vega architecture arriving soon..

..Nvidia .. is not sleeping and is working on its 2017 line-up.


The article has no added info beyond repeating the above in different ways.

Article
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/21/16 06:54 PM

Quote:
...
Exclusive [Rumor]: AMD’s flagship Vega 10 powered RX 490 Graphics Card and Entry Level Polaris 12 GPU receive RRA certification

The RX 490 will be AMD’s 4K ready flagship that will be taking on the GTX 1080 at a (probably) similar price point. It is going to be the crown jewel in AMD’s RX lineup..

..The certification also marks the final stages of the design of a particular GPU (no changes can be made after this certification is received)...
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/22/16 08:03 PM

Another site repeated the rumor that Vega GPUs will be a complete end-to-end lineup of cards (not just high-end). They added this note from and AMD representative -- regarding memory used in GPUs.

Quote:
[From:] Robert Hallock, Technical Marketing lead at AMD

“AMD helped lead the development of HBM, was the first to bring HBM to market in GPUs, and plans to implement HBM/HBM2 in future graphics solutions.

At this time we have only publicly demonstrated a GDDR5 configuration of the Polaris architecture.It’s important to understand that HBM isn’t (currently) suitable for all GPU segments due to the current HBM cost structure. In the mainstream GPU segment, GDDR5 remains an extremely cost-effective, efficient and viable memory technology.

We have the flexibility to use HBM or GDDR5 as costs require. Certain market segments are cost sensitive, GDDR5 can be used there. Higher-end market segments where more cost can be afforded, HBM is viable as well.”
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/25/16 01:36 PM

Merry Christmas to those who celebrate Christmas. Happy Holidays to the rest of you.

I told my wife to buy me nothing. I woke up this morning and got -- nothing smile

But, I await Ryzen -- and save the Christmas cash for that.

Quote:
First AMD Ryzen Review Leaked


This first leak article tested several real world applications -- and up to date games. BUT, with a Zen engineering sample running at 3.15GHz versus the AMD claimed 3.4GHz minimum of the real Consumer Ryzen. So, the exact results don't mean much. However, Zen did much much better than current AMD FX8370 running at full speed.

Doing a little math on the results, Ryzen may turn out to be slightly more competitive than I expected -- not the fastest -- but competitive in games -- and very special in non-game high-end threaded applications.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/27/16 04:37 AM

Quote:
[Rumor] Intel Is Reportedly Working On A Brand New Implementation of The x86 Architecture: One That Is Much Faster and Leaner

The grapevine has been buzzing with something that is pretty huge as far as developments in this industry go. According to Bitsandchips.it, Intel has started working on a brand new x86 architecture..

..backward compatibility is no longer assured..

..we can expect the brand new x86 implementation to land by 2020 approximately...


Intel may be planning to "break" the X86 CPU architecture -- ass-u-me-ing this rumor is true as stated.

I remember (back in the day) when IBM had a very successful PC and had a very successful motherboard (like Intel has the PC CPU design locked up). BUT, other folks were copying the motherboard. So, IBM went with a "proprietary" design that was "not backward compatible" -- figured they would "corner the market". However, that killed IBM because the industry said to IBM -- stuff it, we won't use your new design. So, the industry continued along WITHOUT IBM. IBM lost big.

Could Intel suffer the same fate?? Tune in in 2020 and see smile

Actually, the article thinks "incompatibility" will only affect a few things -- no big deal.

Competition is good smile
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/27/16 04:01 PM

Intel said that about the Pentium 4's..
And they Ditched them for Core Series quicker than AMD Ditched their CMT designs
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/27/16 08:29 PM

just waitin for FX CPU prices to drop so I can get my brother's PC back up to 8 cores.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/28/16 07:56 PM

On the competition front:

Quote:
NVIDIA Quadro P6000 Gaming Benchmarks Unveiled, Faster Than The Titan X (P) – Handles 4K DX12 Gaming at 60+ FPS With Ease

..~$4800 US...


Yes, $4800.00 (not really intended for consumer market). In any case, the high end Vega GPU is rumored to be just slightly faster in some respects (I always expect the top Nvidia GPU to have the highest gaming FPS - even if by only an inconsequential amount - its Nvidia's selling point). I ass-u-me the top Vega GPU will be approximately $1000.00 (may be less - AMD is "bang for buck").

But, with all the rumors and speculations, I may have something out of wack. We'll see -- more Vega and Ryzen info is expected in just about 10 days.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/28/16 08:06 PM

Fury GPUs are down to $250 and lower w/ MIR

Fury X water cooled, some venders have for $309, also with $20-30 MIR

(Some Vendors are still asking full price)
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/29/16 12:37 PM

Quote:
[Rumor] Windows 10 to get a “game mode”

..WalkingCat said that a dll called "gamemode" was under the bonnet of the latest build of Windows 10 (version 14997). He said that it "looks like Windows will adjust its resource allocation logic (for CPU/[graphics] etc.)" to prioritize game performance.

This is like the way that the Xbox One runs a game. The feature will reportedly launch as part of the Creators update .. in spring....


Generally interesting rumor/speculation that potentially impacts all CPUs and GPUs to some extent -- but, I'm speculating, will be more important to weaker gaming systems.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/29/16 04:06 PM

the dll is in the tester builds already,

prioritizes DirectX and other Game Related Services to a higher priority level when it detects application running.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/29/16 08:49 PM

Quote:
AMD will make a comeback driven by Ryzen in the CPU market

One of the easiest to predict trends of 2017 however, will be AMD’s comeback in the CPU market..

..AMD Ryzen is likely to single-handedly put the company back on the map for its offerings of x86 processors and this won’t just be about the gaming industry. Ryzen .. very competitive performance in the server and enterprise market as well. .. to sum it up, Intel’s temporary free run is over and will be facing real competition from AMD this time around...
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/30/16 12:06 PM

Quote:
...We hope that Ryzen will start selling in Q1 2017 but AMD executives, including the CEO and a few executive vice presidents only confirmed that it is on schedule for Q1 2017. They never used the word "shipping." March 2017 has 31 days, so that is the last day AMD must ship the CPU to meet the Q1 plan otherwise it will slip to Q2. In spite of the shipping date, we expect to see full volume production and mass availability in Q2 2017 for the desktop Ryzen to be followed by the server one quarter later and notebooks before the end of the year...
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/30/16 03:43 PM

Rumors coming from friends of Ryzen hitting 5.0GHz on Air...
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/30/16 04:46 PM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
Rumors coming from friends of Ryzen hitting 5.0GHz on Air...


Wow! I hope mine does that -- or even 4.5GHz would be great. I do plan to water cool it.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/30/16 06:32 PM

3.4 GHz at sub 95w, so 4.5/5.0 GHz at 120w would be easy.

they said lil to no mV increases to 4.2, just adjustments to MP and FSB, 5.0 needed a smidge, but no where near as much as FX83xx
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 12/31/16 07:07 PM

The 5GHz OC number has become public:

Quote:
...Ryzen sample single-core overclock is 5GHz on air, primary bottleneck for all-core OC was low-quality VRMs on the motherboard

..Ryzen overclocks out of the box and if the single core OC is any indicator, the primary hurdle enthusiasts will have to overcome will be one of the quality of motherboard and of course, electromigration.

.. [speculate] you can realistically expect cherry chips to overclock up to 3.8-4.0 GHz on all cores with a high-end cooler and a mature enough revision of the Ryzen processor...


Electromigration becomes a bigger issue as architecture shrinks (Ryzen is 14nm), I speculate. This causes premature aging. However, its a trade off -- that fanatics may be willing to accept smile
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/02/17 01:33 AM

Quote:
...AMD has finally decided to unveil that they will be showcasing the full Vega GPU architecture preview at CES 2017. The upcoming showcase confirms that Vega GPU (or GPUs) are in ready state and should make it for launch in Q1 2017...
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/02/17 04:36 PM

This is the week of CES. So, the leaks are more solid (but, still rumor -- not established fact).

I own Polaris (so, I know its good) -- plays all my games at max settings at 1440p. Vega is all new and 2X, 4X, 8X times better (or so they say).

Quote:
AMD Vega Features Leaked – 4x Efficiency, 2x Performance/Clock , 8x Capacity Per HBM Stack & Next Gen Compute Engine

..Vega Architecture ( Compard to Polaris )

– 4x Power Efficiency
– 2x Peak Throughput/Performance Per Clock
– High Bandwidth Cache
– 2x Bandwidth per pin
– 8x Capacity Per stack ( 2nd Generation High Bandwidth Memory )
– 512TB Virtual Address Space
– Next Generation Compute Engine
– Next Generation Pixel Engine
– Next Compute Unit Architecture
– Rapid Packed Math
– Draw Stream Binning Rasterizer
– Primitive Shaders..



Quote:
..A New Top-To-Bottom Range Of Radeon RX 500 Series Graphics Cards Based On The Vega Architecture

AMD will be rolling out its next generation Vega architecture across the entire range of its 2017 Radeon graphics cards and it’ll do it “soon”...
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/02/17 05:02 PM

Just for some perspective here.....A GTX 970 (which I used to own) has roughly the same performance as the 480 (better/worse in some cases) and like almost every graphics card on the planet it will play or at least let you select 1440p and probably 2160p (4K) for any game you may choose. However the frame rate at maximum settings will vary and may only be 'acceptable' depending on the user expectations and requirements. One of the reasons why I moved on was because 1440p is most definitely the limit for these cards and struggling to maintain good framerates in recent titles.

Given that the spec in your sig is driving multiple monitors and especially if you're using eyefinity to drive a single logical screen in games I don't believe for a second that many people would take the performance you have as acceptable at all (totaly dependent on which games you're playing of course).

I totally buy into your 'competition is good' theme, however I don't believe for one minute that your primary objective within this thread is do anything other than sell the virtues of AMD as a company.

For your sake, let's hope that Zen comes up with the goods because this relentless pursuit and hope of having an AMD product that finally competes with Intel otherwise you're going to give yourself a hernia amongst the rumour and speculation articles and links.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/02/17 05:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Paradaz
Just for some perspective here.....


When I say 1440p, I mean the single monitor at 1440p (which is the standard meaning of 1440p). I try to use standard terminology.

I'm a game mod addict who adds all the high textures and extras that "third party" modders add to "stock" games (where its possible). So, that drops FPS -- measurably, but rarely perceptibly (to me).

For example, Fallout 4 was running above 60fps (my max monitor refresh rate). I added all the third party bells and whistles. In the worst case, FPS dropped to a minimum of 14 or so in one very limited scene. In other places it dropped to a minimum of just under 30fps. Those were not averages -- they were minimums. Only the 14FPS area looked "jerky" to my eyes. But, other eyes would vary.

Playing Skyrim SE lately. Again above 60 until I loaded it up. Now in the 40s. Looks good to me.

Yes, this is the AMD fan thread smile

But, I have tried to make it clear that "until we see the unbiased, 3d party tests" we won't know. So, I always poke in the words -- rumor, speculation, leak, etc. I would hate for someone to buy something because I personally misrepresented it. Rather, my aim is to provide fun information.

We'll see how it all turns out later when the Ryzen and Vega actually are being sold to the public.

Meantime, I assume Intel CPUs will still provide an edge in most games. And, Nvidia will do what it has to do to provide a card that beats AMD in FPS. However, I expect the "bang for buck" odds to favor AMD. We'll see if my "speculation" turns out true or false smile
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/03/17 04:56 PM

By the way, in the context of what's presented in this thread.

Skatezilla started this thread and the thread is Skatezilla's thread. I only contribute. We don't have any private conversations about it.

I get up early (by USA standards). The first thing I do is check the internet technical sites, then political sites, then science sites. That all takes very few clicks.

Then I come to SimHQ and "report" if I see anything that seems like an incremental advancement of knowledge. So, because I get up early, maybe I get things posted before others have a chance to do it. But, I'm nobody special on this thread -- Skatezilla is the instigator, owner, and AMD insider on this AMD fanbase thread.

There could equally well be an Intel thread and an Nvidia thread on SimHQ -- if someone wanted to start them.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/03/17 08:32 PM

The Title of the Thread is "Current and Future Status of AMD".


What Else is there to discuss?
Posted By: Aeronautico

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/03/17 08:38 PM

Originally Posted By: Allen
By the way, in the context of what's presented in this thread.

Too much info there: you need not to be apologetic or even explanatory. winkngrin
You are doing very fine, as Skatezilla is and both in an "AMD appreciative" yet very objective manner and I thank you both for that, so much that I do not let myself skip a single post. yep
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/04/17 01:53 AM

Quote:
Missed the [W10 Free] Upgrade Offer? Here’s How You Can Still Install Windows 10 for Free

Microsoft released Windows 10 as a free upgrade in 2015. The free upgrade offer was extended to all Windows 7 and 8 users for 12 months, which ended in July last year, ahead of the release of Windows 10 Anniversary Update. However, the free upgrade hasn’t apparently completely ended.

According to reports, thanks to a loophole you can still upgrade your Windows 7 or 8 PC to Windows 10 for free. ...


I tried it just now on the last two computers in the house on Windows 7. I'm upgrading to Windows 10 for free.

Its taking the usual very long time but seems to be working. Because it takes so long, I'm posting now (before I am positive how it turns out) -- in case anyone wants to take advantage tonight. Its really easy to initiate -- just go to the W10 site linked in the article and make a few quick clicks.

As noted before, W10 has a W7-like mode and a W8-like mode. In my opinion, its better than both -- unless you have software that simply will not run on W10 (Microsoft Media Center is the only app we used that doesn't work on W10).

So if you missed the chance to upgrade for free and thereby save up to $120, here's the

Article

[Edit] WHOOPS. Posted a few minutes too soon. A last minute hang up during installation. We'll see if it is fixable or fixes itself.

[Edit 2] IT WORKED on the second try.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/04/17 05:35 AM

Im not ready to put my Windows 7 out to pasture.. lol...
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/04/17 12:30 PM

Quote:
AMD officially announces new FreeSync 2 tech

..with over 20 partners and 121 monitors available with FreeSync support, AMD .. FreeSync is .. more widely adopted compared to Nvidia G-Sync technology..

..The HDR or "high dynamic range" is the next big thing and can be used on both SDR (standard dynamic range) and HDR-capable monitors, but suffers from high input lag, something that AMD will change with the FreeSync 2 technology..

..Currently, the HDR rendering is a two stage process .. FreeSync 2 is a single stage process .. thus lowering the input lag..

..all FreeSync-compatible Radeon GPUs will also support the new FreeSync 2 technology, which means all GCN 1.1 and newer GPUs..

..Currently, Samsung is the only known big partner that has jumped on the FreeSync 2 train...


I personally am interested in HDR (high dynamic range color and contrast) -- that's something one can "see" (not just measure). Newer AMD GPUs can do it -- so, many do not need a new GPU. However, as noted above, one needs a Freesync monitor to get maximum performance -- and Freesync 2 monitors are coming later this year.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/04/17 03:16 PM

Quote:
AMD Radeon RX 560M Featured Inside Lenovo’s Y520 NotBook – Confirms Radeon RX 500 Series

The Radeon RX 560M naming scheme confirms that there will be a Radeon RX 500 series this year...


However, will that be a simple "renaming" of 400 series GPUs. Or, a truly new GPU architecture (based on advanced Polaris or Vega). CES (being held this week) may shed more light.

Anyhow, this may mean that new-design 2017 AMD GPU cards will be named RX5xx (something that has been speculated for a while now).
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/04/17 03:50 PM

I think the mSeries has always been re-brand of the Series before from desktop

ie. 300m was 200 Series Desktop, 400m is 300 series desktop, etc.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/04/17 08:28 PM

Quote:
..MSI X370 XPOWER Gaming Titanium Motherboard:

.. has a 10 phase PWM design fitted with the highest quality components. These allow higher overclockability and stability on the Ryzen CPUs which will be fully supported by the AM4 socket. There are two aluminum based heatsinks fitted with heatpipe cooling that dissipate heat from the VRMs.

..Four DDR4 DIMM slots allow for really fast memory support with capacity of up to 64 GB and speeds running past 4000 MHz (O.C.+). Expansion slots include three PCIe 3.0 x16 slots, three PCIe 3.0 x1 slots and dual M.2 slots out of which one is Turbo speed compatible (32 GB/s). Storage options on the board include 6 SATA III 6 GB/s ports, a Turbo U.2 port and dual USB 3.0 and USB 2.0 front panel headers...


Just one of the Ryzen friendly "enthusiast class" motherboards at CES today.

I'll probably grab the nominally $500 Ryzen the moment I see it on sale. However, I may delay the Motherboard purchase until I can figure out the best one for me. Historically, I've liked Gigabyte an ASUS the best. But, one has to remain open minded to other brands while choosing.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/04/17 08:34 PM

On the competition front. Nvidia has the honor of giving the CES keynote presentation today at 6:30pm PST (2:30am GMT). The Nvidia site and others will livestream it.

Quote:
Watch NVIDIA’s CES 2017 Live Stream Here

(NOTE: LIVESTREAM LINK WILL BE ADDED PRIOR TO START OF THE EVENT)


The event will take place in Las Vegas at 6:30 P.M. PST (Pacific Standard Time). We can definitely expect new product announcements in the GeForce and Shield department...


Livestream Article

Of course, I would not deign to watch it smile wink

Actually, 6:30pm PST is past my bedtime smile I'll read about it tomorrow.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/04/17 08:53 PM

Originally Posted By: Allen
Quote:
..MSI X370 XPOWER Gaming Titanium Motherboard:

.. has a 10 phase PWM design fitted with the highest quality components. These allow higher overclockability and stability on the Ryzen CPUs which will be fully supported by the AM4 socket. There are two aluminum based heatsinks fitted with heatpipe cooling that dissipate heat from the VRMs.

..Four DDR4 DIMM slots allow for really fast memory support with capacity of up to 64 GB and speeds running past 4000 MHz (O.C.+). Expansion slots include three PCIe 3.0 x16 slots, three PCIe 3.0 x1 slots and dual M.2 slots out of which one is Turbo speed compatible (32 GB/s). Storage options on the board include 6 SATA III 6 GB/s ports, a Turbo U.2 port and dual USB 3.0 and USB 2.0 front panel headers...


Just one of the Ryzen friendly "enthusiast class" motherboards at CES today.

I'll probably grab the nominally $500 Ryzen the moment I see it on sale. However, I may delay the Motherboard purchase until I can figure out the best one for me. Historically, I've liked Gigabyte an ASUS the best. But, one has to remain open minded to other brands while choosing.
.

I've Typically Gone ASuS or ASRock...
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/05/17 01:43 AM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
I've Typically Gone ASuS or ASRock...


I was just working on my ASRock MB PC today. So, its also one I've found "worthy" smile




Quote:
..the big Vega Architecture Preview event which starts at 2 PM GMT on January 5th..


Nominally 9am EST tomorrow morning according to the AMD site.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/05/17 12:45 PM

A quick summary chart of the AMD CPU Chipsets. For Ryzen, one wants the AM4 column. Note that all the Ryzen/Zen CPUs will be "unlocked" and overclockable -- but, not all motherboard chipsets support overclocking. Many of us on SimHQ (who go the Ryzen route) would be picking an X370 motherboard -- but, B350 is also useable with a single GPU setup (many prefer single GPU).

Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/05/17 03:52 PM

The Black and Grey X370 looks nice... (i think it's MSI, as ASRock loves red and black).

hopefully the ASMedia SouthBridge Rumors are just Rumors..
Posted By: Hunedog

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/05/17 06:36 PM

For me Cheering on AMD like no tomorrow. But I will let
the early adopters work out the inevitable bugs and such.

Revision 2 or 3 Motherboards will be when I consider purchase.

Has been a hardware rule of purchase passed on from one geek
to another 17 or so years ago.



runningdog
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/05/17 06:56 PM

i've had Zero Troubles w/ my 990FX Boards.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/05/17 07:20 PM

Originally Posted By: Hunedog
For me Cheering on AMD like no tomorrow. But...


A wise plan thumbsup

Normally, the second generation irons out the wrinkles in the first generation. I used to use the wait and see approach myself.

But, I have fun trying the new stuff -- and its been years since I was able to try a truly new AMD CPU (and that did not turn out real good). So, I'll take an educated-chance on the latest hardware.

Others need not "take a chance" if they have no immediate needs to fill. Wait for the proof smile
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/05/17 08:06 PM

Quote:
AMD Teases Vega Architecture: More Than 200+ New Features, Ready First Half Of 2017

..Let’s cut right to it: Products based on AMD’s high-end Vega GPU architecture aren’t ready yet, but they’re expected sometime between now and the end of June...


So, maybe Vega comes out as late as June 2017 (contrary to earlier rumors that put it at the end of this month or next month). Still glad I got my RX480 "fix" last June 2016 (my wife gets it when my Vega comes).

Meantime, the article at Tom's covers the newness of the Vega architecture. It comes across as highest end and more than just graphics (GPUs are now used for high-end computation as well as graphics). It covers all the bases of modern GPU uses and covers them exceptionally -- in an AMD presentation.

I assume there are other articles and "guesses" out there. But, the bottom line is: We have to wait longer for the empirical facts based on independent tests.

Article
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/05/17 08:19 PM

OMG I WANTZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!

Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/05/17 11:59 PM

From CES, a small amount of supposedly "hard data":

Quote:
Ryzen demo was using F3 stepping that is clocked at 3.6 GHz / 3.9 GHz, F4 stepping to go even higher

..The good folks over at Canard PC Hardware also revealed that the Ryzen F4 stepping has already been finalized and has a turbo clock of 4.0 GHz. .. it already has a higher clock than Intel’s 6900k which can turbo to 3.7 GHz. It is even a fair bet that if you were to put the two side by side in a gaming comparison, the Intel counterpart would loose out..

..a single core can hit 5 GHz on air..

..even at this stepping, a 3.9 GHz turbo is more than enough for most modern day games. If you really want to crank out that last bit of juice from your Vega GPU than you can go with an Intel quad-core that can hit the 4.4 GHz mark...


So, 3.6/4.0GHz is the next stepping. Will it be "the last"?

I'm still hoping the $500 Ryzen is a "hand selected" "final stepping" that out performs the numbers seen here (if only by a little bit) and overclocks the best.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/06/17 07:44 PM

Quote:
[Rumor] EVGA Partnering With AMD On Vega & Radeon RX 500 Series Graphics Cards

According to recent chatter around the tech-sphere, Nvidia’s biggest partner, EVGA may be jumping on the AMD Vega train this year..

..EVGA is a well established premium brand and the most popular among GeForce customers, especially in north America. Bringing that strong brand recognition over to the Radeon side will help the company [AMD] penetrate new markets and could have a positive impact on Vega sales.. it will also make a relatively small market even more competitive for AMD’s existing board-partners and thus could prove to be an unpopular decision for AMD management to even allow it...


Another, "we'll see" rumor. If it happens, it will validate AMD's "new direction". If it doesn't happen, it may only be a "business decision" among AMD, EVGA, and Nvidia -- rather than a "vote of no confidence" (according to the article).
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/07/17 04:48 PM

Originally Posted By: Allen
Quote:
[Rumor] EVGA Partnering With AMD On Vega & Radeon RX 500 Series Graphics Cards
...


Another, "we'll see" rumor. ...



Now the above quoted [Rumor] article has been updated:


Quote:
[UPDATED] 01/07/2017 5:23:49 PM

EVGA has denied rumors of a partnership with AMD on Vega.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/07/17 08:02 PM

Quote:
All AMD Ryzen CPUs Are Multiplier Unlocked & Overclocking Ready Out Of The Box

..

All Ryzen CPUs will be multiplier unlocked and ready for overclocking right out of the box. There will be no locked Ryzen CPUs.

AM4 X370, X300 and B350 chipsets all support overclocking.

Ryzen CPUs will come in different configurations with varying core counts. The highest core count parts will have eight cores and support sixteen threads.

Ryzen will launch closer to the middle of Q1 or early Q1 rather than the end of Q1. AMD wouldn’t give us a specific date but sometime in February is a good bet.

AM4 compatible aftermarket air and liquid cooling solutions will be available on day one...


Rumored February launch.
Posted By: Hunedog

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/08/17 07:12 PM

Wow! rolleyes January Vega Hype for a June release...maybe?

The Green Team must be loving that one.

Wake me up when the GPU monopoly is ready to be challenged.

Disappointed to say the least, Pages and pages of click bait, nice.

I will be happily corrected if I am wrong. Humble pie on Standby.



runningdog
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/08/17 09:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Hunedog
...Pages and pages of click bait...


Yes. Mostly, the rumors come every other day or so -- every few hours during CES last week. In this AMD thread, we post any rumor that adds a particle of new information.

However, at this point, virtually all the CPU/GPU specifications have been "guessed at" or even "correctly leaked". Now, it remains to see what is actually sold to consumers -- and when.

Unless we've been badly mislead bordering on fraud, I expect AMD to be "truly competitive" with its high end products. But, the words "truly competitive" mean different things to different people -- even here at SimHQ smile
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/09/17 12:22 PM

And, here's another increment of knowledge:

Quote:
AMD Vega 10 GPU With 8GB HBM2 Powered DOOM 4K Vulkan Demo, Should Outperform GTX 1080 In OpenGL Too

.. interview with AMD’s head of Radeon Technologies Group, Raja Koduri, it was revealed that the impressive 4K/60FPS+ DOOM demo that the company showcased was in fact running on the company’s brand new high-end Vega 10 GPU, ..

..Vega 10 should in fact beat the GTX 1080 running at the same 4K resolution..at lower resolutions where the game is more CPU bound there would be less of a performance differential between the two..


Emphasis has been on AMD Vulcan performance in public demos -- because Vulcan performance is a strength of Polaris and Vega. The article says the advantage in OpenGL exists but is less because AMD is not putting valuable time into optimizing the performance for "out of date" OpenGL.

All in all, from the tone of articles, I am guessing that Nvidia's best cards will have an advantage in DX11 and maybe OpenGL. I am guessing AMD will have a small advantage in DX12 and Vulcan by some "measures". "Measures" vary -- i.e. absolute FPS, FPS per clock, bang for buck, etc. Each of us has our own "measure". So, we'll see.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/09/17 03:21 PM

Something based on AMD management statements:

Quote:
AMD Zen Architecture For RYZEN and Naples Processors Will Last Four Years on 14nm – Future Zen+ Revisions To Improve Architecture

AMD has confirmed that their Zen CPU architecture for RYZEN processors is expected to last four years. It took AMD four years to develop Zen and it will take another four for Zen to complete its shelve time..

..When asked how long Zen would last, compared to Intel’s two-year tick-tock cadence, Papermaster confirmed the four-year lifespan and tapped the table in front of him: “We’re not going tick-tock,” he said. “Zen is going to be tock, tock, tock.” via PCWorld..

..A tock cycle represents a new architecture while a tick cycle represents a process shrink..

[Same Zen CPU core design from fanless notebooks to supercomputers]...


Article

There will be 4 years between AMD "tocks". During that time there will be improvments -- but, the underlying fundamental architecture and process node (e.g. 14nm) will remain during the 4 years. Intel has been changing architecture, then shrinking without large architecture improvement over approximately 4 years (tick 2 years plus tock 2 years -- nothing wrong with the Intel method -- just different). So, for both AMD and Intel, it has been roughly 4 years between major improvements. That will continue -- or so it seems today.

A nice thing about AMD, so far, has been that motherboards last through CPU improvements. So, my original MB for the FX8150 has lasted for FX8350 and FX9590 -- and, on paper, still works with the previous Phenom CPU series. Another "bang for buck" feature of AMD.

Apparently, the tradition of allowing easy relatively-cheap upgrades (just buy new CPU and exchange it with the old one) will continue.
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/09/17 03:49 PM

To me the BIG question will be:

Has AMD marketing learned how to sell on AMD's strengths and avoid comparisons where they are weak?

Naturally this depends on the performance and pricing of the final silicon, and I wonder if the past hasn't seen some real disconnects between what marketing was being told and the reality of the products.

They need to sell what they have, not what they thought or wished they had. While we all wish they could come out with products that would meet or beat Intel's and nvidia's, that's not as important as them selling what they do have at a healthy profit with decent market share. Granted there is a lot of possible overlap in that, but it's not necessarily 100%.

For example, if they had a card at say the 1060's price point that was 15% better in most every way, and they had a good supply of it, that would be good for them, even if they couldn't match the 1070 or 1080 in the same way.




The Jedi Master
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/09/17 08:08 PM

Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
To me the BIG question will be:...


Agree, that is the question. As I often say, "we'll see" smile
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/10/17 10:33 AM

On the competition front:

Quote:
GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Will Be Landing Around PAX East (March 10th) According To NVIDIA AIB Employee

..In what appears to be a textbook case of game theory applied to the two chip manufacturers, NVIDIA has pushed back the date of release to put some more polish on the GTX 1080 Ti as they wait for AMD to make a move and enjoy a couple more months of GTX 1080 holding the performance crown uncontested..

..it makes no sense for NVIDIA to reveal the 1080 Ti now, and cannibalize sales of the TITAN X..

..the Vega GPU will offer higher performance than the GTX 1080 – which means NVIDIA needs to respond with a consumer variant that offers comparable or higher performance immediately or before the fact, or risk losing market share. One thing is for sure though, Vega’s pricing will definitely increase the purchasing power of the average gamer. If Vega is priced correctly, (and there is no reason to assume it won’t be), then it will force NVIDIA to slash pricing on the GTX 1080 and offer the GTX 1080 Ti for a premium, because at the end of the day when the dust settles on a pricing war, the consumer wins...


The interesting viewpoint of this article: Without AMD, Intel and Nvidia would be releasing new stuff MUCH more slowly and charging MUCH more for it. Nvidia fans need AMD -- AMD fans need Nvidia and Intel.

Competition is good smile
Posted By: Nixer

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/10/17 01:12 PM

Competition is good

Agreed and one of the big reasons I watch this thread and board is you two AMD fans great info.
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/10/17 06:37 PM

Originally Posted By: Allen

The interesting viewpoint of this article: Without AMD, Intel and Nvidia would be releasing new stuff MUCH more slowly and charging MUCH more for it. Nvidia fans need AMD -- AMD fans need Nvidia and Intel.

Competition is good smile


I'd agree with that to a point. Nvidia fans don't need AMD at all.......they get massive performance and pay through the nose for it.

AMD fans are stuck in a world of much lesser performance.

The key point which I actually think you have missed through your AMD tinted spectacles is that the sane gamer needs both AMD and Nvidia to compete to bring both performance up and prices down because the person driven by performance and value doesn't care about brand names. Let's be honest Allen (and I'm not being rude here).....regardless of what value, performance or otherwise Nvidia release you're only looking at AMD anyway even if Nvidia were to produce something that beats Vega at less cost.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/10/17 07:05 PM

with no competition, there will be no incentive to keep prices managable nor incentive to actually pay R&D..

So.. You'd Get GTX-1180s for $2000, and no incentive to improve on anything...

if AMD doesnt compete, nVidia and Intel customers will start to get price Gouged.
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/10/17 07:55 PM

I think that already happened!
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/10/17 07:58 PM

Originally Posted By: Paradaz
...Nvidia fans don't need AMD at all.......they get massive performance and pay through the nose for it...


The article's direction and my belief is that without AMD, Nvidia fans (and non-aligned shoppers) would not even be looking at 1080Ti in 2017. We'd still be in the 900 series or earlier at a much higher price for the top units (they would have cheaper units for folks who could not afford over $1000 for a GPU).

So, I think all consumers need direct, close competition among products -- not just for cost -- but to have the best possible products in front of them to buy.

I imagine/speculate that in the total absence of competition from AMD (i.e. AMD does not exist) over the last decade, GPU buyers would not even know that "things could have been much better" (as they actually are today).

My opinion, of course smile
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/10/17 08:01 PM

Quote:
AMD’s New Vega High Bandwidth Cache Controller Will Double Your Usable Graphics Memory Capacity In Games

..That’s right. An 8GB Vega graphics card, just as an example, will be effectively have as much usable memory as a 16GB graphics card. It’s all thanks to the company’s brand new High Bandwidth Cache Controller at the heart of every Vega graphics chip...
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/10/17 08:33 PM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
with no competition, there will be no incentive to keep prices managable nor incentive to actually pay R&D..

So.. You'd Get GTX-1180s for $2000, and no incentive to improve on anything...

if AMD doesnt compete, nVidia and Intel customers will start to get price Gouged.


I don't think that's really a concern because sales would simply plummet instead. While there will always be a gullible sliver who will buy anything at any price, there are mostly people who will pay what they think is worthwhile.

We could never have a world of $50,000 Toyota Corollas just because there were no Civics or Malibus or Fiats since most people couldn't afford a $50k car to begin with. They'd just buy the cheaper cars instead. Instead of a $2k 1180, people would go for the under-$500 1160 or 1150 or whatever. People won't get loans for a GPU. Either they keep the prices reasonable or sales will dwindle to nothing.

Now, what we WILL get is what we are already seeing. Minor iterations on an existing product that offer only the most meager of updates in the same price range. Look at the Intel CPU line. There are people still running Sandy Bridge CPUs because they OC'd them without issue and can still run the latest games just fine with a late-model GPU. There have been literally 5 new series of CPUs released since Sandy Bridge and they only offer minor increases in speed overall, with stock clocks actually improving more than the IPC and other architectural improvements have achieved. So if you can clock your SB at 4.5GHZ and keep it there, there's no reason to get a Kaby Lake!

AMD's existence has kept the price ranges of those products in check, but has done nothing to spur any innovation.



The Jedi Master
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/10/17 08:46 PM

there would be low price point options, and they'll most likely be gimped and outdated versions, while the upper price point options are the new things.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/12/17 01:25 AM

Quote:
AMD Ryzen 4 Core CPUs Begin Sampling, Will Take On Intel’s i3 & i5

AMD has reportedly begun sampling 4 core, 4 thread Ryzen CPUs . These new quad cores have multi-threading disabled and will be the company’s entry-level Ryzen processors set to take on Intel’s i5 and i3 chips on the desktop.

Affordable, Fully Unlocked 45W Ryzen Quad Cores For The Masses

..[All Ryzen/Zen] will have unlocked multipliers and will feature full overclocking support on X370 and B350 chipset AM4 motherboards. This will perhaps make them the most potent gaming chips in their class, especially considering Intel’s entire i5 and i3 lineups are locked. Save for one SKU each, which the company [Intel] sells at a premium..

[3.4GHz minimum clocks]...


Article says 6 core is coming also. These are to launch a month or more after the first Ryzen "top of the line" CPUs.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/12/17 02:31 AM

Im Hearing Launch Before GDC.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/12/17 04:51 PM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
Im Hearing Launch Before GDC.


Good catch.

Quote:
AMD accidently announces Ryzen launch date

AMD indicated that the official Ryzen launch date will be sometime before March. [just prior to GDC]..

..GDC event runs from 27 February to 3 March...


Quote:
AMD’s High-Performance Vega GPUs To Launch in May – Up To 8 GB HBM2 VRAM, 4096 Cores, Aimed at 4K AAA and VR Gaming
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/12/17 06:05 PM

Likely a Paper Launch, but at this point, it's better than NO_LAUNCH = TRUE <>
Posted By: kestrel79

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/15/17 05:33 PM

Waiting for the next AMD video cards to upgrade.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/17/17 12:23 AM

Quote:
AMD’s Infinity Fabric Detailed – The Innovative, Real-World Implementation of The Company’s ‘Perfect Lego’ Philosophy

..So what is the big deal about it? Well, even if you are to leave all the high level talk behind, one of the biggest impacts of Infinity Fabric is that it will allow AMD to fully utilize DRAM available to any SoC or GPU. This means that textbook and theoretical performance limits will be achievable and will result in an overall power efficient architectural design.

Secondly if you take a look at the slides, you will notice how the Infinity Fabric is now so much more than just HyperTransport. It is the physical implementation of AMD’s all-encompassing Lego philosophy, for lack of a better word, where everything is fully scalable and a 100% flexible..

..this would only solidify AMD’s position in the console market because the company will literally be handing them all the flexibility they could ever ask for.


Found on Ryzen, Vega, the article explains the advantages over the classic Intel way, among other things. But, there is tech talk (high level talk) involved that I can't summarize (or even completely understand -- as it is not my specialty).

Article
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/17/17 08:04 PM

New Drivers
http://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-articles...px?sf51406476=1
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/23/17 05:01 PM

Quote:
i7 7700k vs A10 7700k: IGP Gaming Performance Showdown


The video compares the:

$350 Intel i7 7700K 4core/8thread, 3100MHz DDR4 memory, etc. (using its Internal GPU).

to the OLD architecture (soon to be replace by Zen architecture)

$75 AMD A10 7700K, 2100MHz DDR3, etc. (only 386 shaders vs normal 512 in top AMD APUs).

Shockingly, the AMD A10 Wins for gaming. The FPS was close between both (sometimes AMD wins, sometimes Intel wins). But, the graphical quality was better for the AMD A10 -- according to the reviewer. I was honestly surprised that the overwhelming CPU superiority of Intel was not enough to beat a mid-level AMD APU.

My view is that in the long run, CPUs and GPUs will be replaced by APUs (both CPU and GPU on one chip) for nearly every application -- except for gaming fanatics. We'll see.

Article with Video
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/23/17 05:31 PM

Intel's IGP Architecture is a joke, and is falling behind.

Either they remove them and save the space/power or they replace them with a new one, and there were never any hits that IntelHD Graphics Cores would get a new re-vamp.

Rumors of AMD Agreements, but nothing confirmed.
Posted By: Bib4Tuna

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/24/17 12:41 AM

Originally Posted By: SkateZilla


Broken drivers for me. I do not remember the last time I had issues with AMD drivers. Maybe on of the early Crimsons?

Games suddenly dropped from 70 frames to 25-30 and stutter like hell. Turns out the memory clocks were dropping from 1500 to 150 and staying there for no reason.

Adding Sapphire Trixx back helped to stabilize the clocks, but any game using Freesync would cause the screen to flicker like crazy.

Cleaned up with DDU and reverted back to 16.11.5 and I even got better performance than with the 16.12s.

Seen quite a lot of postings on this in various forums. Could it be that AMD is starting to EOL Fiji?
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/24/17 02:07 PM

Gaming with an Intel IGP is kind of like preparing to swim in the Olympics by injecting lidocaine into your arms and legs before jumping in to keep yourself loose.

Friends don't let friends game with integrated graphics.




The Jedi Master
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/24/17 03:13 PM

it's like trying to qualify for Daytona in a Barbie Pink Hummer Power Wheels.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/24/17 03:18 PM

Originally Posted By: Bib4Tuna
Originally Posted By: SkateZilla


Broken drivers for me. I do not remember the last time I had issues with AMD drivers. Maybe on of the early Crimsons?

Games suddenly dropped from 70 frames to 25-30 and stutter like hell. Turns out the memory clocks were dropping from 1500 to 150 and staying there for no reason.

Adding Sapphire Trixx back helped to stabilize the clocks, but any game using Freesync would cause the screen to flicker like crazy.

Cleaned up with DDU and reverted back to 16.11.5 and I even got better performance than with the 16.12s.

Seen quite a lot of postings on this in various forums. Could it be that AMD is starting to EOL Fiji?


I've had Flickering on my screens, but nothing shows in logs so I'm not sure if it's because of the cables or not, but if 1 screen is on, 1 screen does it, if 3 are on all 3 do it, if 5 screens are on, all 5 do it... might be the GPU, as I was swapping them in and out when I was trying to get VR to work w/ my GPUs, I might swap the primary and secondary lightnings and see if that resolves the issue.

outside of a few other lil things, the crimson drivers have been pretty much stable, once I figured out how to manage displays.

I dont really use eyefinity arrays anymore, as all my games support multi-screens, and older ones that don't I can run using manual resolution selection and it goes across all 3 screens, or I can run Full Screen on 1 if I choose and use another screen for something else.

and most of the games i play, I play in VR Now anyway (DCS, Elite:D, Racing Sims etc)

Eyefinity was fun when games didnt support Multi-Screens, but It's easier for me to just run multiple extended desktops.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/25/17 04:09 PM

nVidia's 12nm Volta GPUs might be coming to keep ahead of AMD this year.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/25/17 11:22 PM

Quote:
Windows [10] Game Mode Focuses On Performance Consistency; Will Also Benefit Win32 PC Games In Some Way

The recently revealed Windows [10] Game Mode will focus on performance consistency, rather than performance boosts..

..the mode aims to make framerates more consistent. .. Game Mode “will also limit CPU thread contention between your games and existing system processes..

..certain Windows 10 games will have Game Mode enabled by default, and players will have to option to disable it if desired.

Game Mode will release tomorrow for Windows Insiders (build 15019) and is slated for a release on consumer PCs this April.


So, when one is gaming on Windows 10, Windows 10 will make the game the "first priority" when threading conflicts occur between the game and other processes. That will probably help "weaker" CPUs (like in a laptop) play games better -- for example, AMD APUs in laptops.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/26/17 01:20 AM

Will also help systems w/ 4GB or Less Ram.
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/26/17 02:03 PM

It should help across the board, if it works like it should. More noticeable in less powerful systems, of course, which are more likely to experience sudden dips and stutters in the first place.

I'm just skeptical. This is the kind of thing MS could've put in place long ago but never did. That makes you wonder if it was far more difficult than we imagined it might be, and why that might be the case.

Last time I had separate "gaming" and "general" configs was in my DOS days when I made an autoexec.bat and config.sys which asked me on boot to either go slim and clean for gaming or load up drivers for everything for when I wasn't gaming.




The Jedi Master
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/26/17 07:00 PM

Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
.. makes you wonder if it was far more difficult than we imagined it might be, and why that might be the case...


I've always felt that Microsoft was a "grade-B" company that just happened to have the rights to the best all-around OS made to date.

Its really only the best OS because "almost everyone" making a PC type device used it -- so it stayed around and kept improving. However, Microsoft product-engineering is "second rate" (the individual engineers are outstanding -- its the leadership-problem to my mind).

So, maybe it was hard -- for them as a company. Or maybe, being grade-B, they just did not care to try to make the customer experience better until now. We all remember Vista and W8 "hiccups" -- anyone could have seen the issues coming but they didn't -- same company.

All merely Opinion, of course.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/26/17 07:09 PM

Previous Windows builds had issues with memory errors etc when other tasks were given higher cpu and memory priority,.
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/26/17 09:20 PM

Right, and I believe that all stems from 90s-era decisions to run so much through the kernel to improve speed. In return for decent performance out of that Pentium 300 we had to deal with far more BSODs than we do now.
I think they've slowly been returning the OS to a modular system for stability, with faster hardware more than making up for the relative loss in speed.

The problem is how tightly bound those optimizations were. They could have built a totally new one, but like many OS Windows has to worry about backwards compatibility. So legacy stuff gets left in, a LOT of it.



The Jedi Master
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/26/17 09:48 PM

With my "reservations" about Microsoft, I do credit them with maintaining very good backward compatibility.

As I remember it with Vista, some Microsoft insiders indicated the overall design was so complex and deep that no single person on the team actually understood it. Thus, they said, a lot of inconsistencies appeared. Within the time and development budget, all they could do was superficially patch and hope.

On a positive note: I think Windows 10 gets it right -- finally. At least based on my usage and reading. This does not mean they got it "perfect" as Windows 10 is too complex for humans to get "perfect".

Windows 53 will probably be perfect as it will be developed by sentient-AI, not people.
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/26/17 09:51 PM

Released in 2053?



The Jedi Master
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/26/17 10:11 PM

Maybe 2097?

My favorite personal "prediction" is that AI will replace 98 percent of us within only 50 years (for intellectual tasks). Moreover, within 100 years, AI will be able to replace human intelligence for 100 percent of everything (tasks that only need intelligence and creativity). Robots may NOT replace humans for things needing agility (e.g. gymnastics) until 150 or more years.

It remains to be seen if humans allow that, however. Probably they will -- leading to a very boring but comfortable life for almost everyone -- or not, depending on politics.

Just a guess smile
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/27/17 02:27 PM

Both the Matrix and Dune series went off that idea...that humanity got the robots to do it all, lived a life of hedonism and leisure, and then the robots took over. Either spontaneously in the Matrix or by the design of angry rebels in Dune, humanity was then enslaved and spent centuries fighting to get out of it.

I'm not worried about it, though, it would take at least 100+ years before we could get to that point, so I won't be around. smile


The Jedi Master
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/30/17 12:13 PM

Uh-oh,

Quote:
...AMD Ryzen Enthusiast Flagship Processors May Cost Up To $720 US

The second part to this story is also a rumor coming from Zolkorn which alleges that the top SKU in the Ryzen family may cost between $580 to $720 US. Judging the performance of the Ryzen sample which AMD tested against the Core i7-6900K, this may in fact be the case. The top-end SKU which is clocked beyond 3.6 GHz at the base clock and boosts beyond that...


I do remember the FX9590 was selling for several hundred dollars when it was released (I seem to remember well above $500) -- it was not worth it.

I waited until it got down to $200 on sale.

As a "hungry" AMD fan, I'm willing to go $500 for the top model. Hate to have to "wait" for that price.
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/30/17 02:24 PM

They may test the waters to see how much they can sell at that range. I doubt it will be much unless this is proven to be comparable in performance.

Still, that's too much. I've not spent more than $350 on a CPU in so long...I remember spending $900 for a Pentium 90 in 1995 eek but since then I've stayed under $400 IIRC. Pretty sure my Athlon 1.2 GHz was. Frankly I've never regretted it. I prefer to spend less and upgrade it more often instead. Usually the CPU out for $350 in 2-3 years is faster than the top-end one today anyway. wink



The Jedi Master
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/30/17 03:26 PM

Originally Posted By: Allen
Uh-oh,

Quote:
...AMD Ryzen Enthusiast Flagship Processors May Cost Up To $720 US

The second part to this story is also a rumor coming from Zolkorn which alleges that the top SKU in the Ryzen family may cost between $580 to $720 US. Judging the performance of the Ryzen sample which AMD tested against the Core i7-6900K, this may in fact be the case. The top-end SKU which is clocked beyond 3.6 GHz at the base clock and boosts beyond that...


I do remember the FX9590 was selling for several hundred dollars when it was released (I seem to remember well above $500) -- it was not worth it.

I waited until it got down to $200 on sale.

As a "hungry" AMD fan, I'm willing to go $500 for the top model. Hate to have to "wait" for that price.


The FX95xx Series was simply FX8350s Cherry picked during testing, the ones that operated at higher freqs w/ lower mV were binned for the 9000 Series.

It was a Waste of Marketing Money to develope the material to market it.

That was on the head of the Old AMD CEO, who continued to try and hold up a the Flawed CMT Designed w/ Marketing tricks.

I dont see the point in the FX8370 or FX8300 either, as they are simply lower or higher binned 8350/20s depending on their stable mV Draw

Should Just done: 8300, 6300, 4300. if a User wanted to OC then that's their gamble. and their problem to find a chip that would OC Better.


Back in the Sub 1GHz Days, 100MHz etc is 1/10th to 1/5th of the performance, you can have 200MHz and 266MHz Versions of the same chip, and it's be worth the money, same with 500 and 750, etc.

But now, 3.3 GHz (8300) to 3.5 (8320) w/ Similar Turbo Limits, Similar TDP.

$20-50 for 200 Mhz more base clock, waste of money to create a separate sku and marketing media for something that close to another one of your own products.

Same for 4.0 GHz (8350) at $149 to 4.0GHz (8370) for $190, you're paying for 100MHz Extra Turbo (from 4.2 to 4.3)

While a FX9590 4.7GHz is the same price as the 8370 now ($190)

Waste of Marketing Budget.



As an Avid AMD Fan, See all that Irked my Nerves,

And I'm pretty sure that was what led to AMD Cleaning House at the Upper management Level.
Posted By: Bib4Tuna

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/30/17 08:47 PM

Originally Posted By: Bib4Tuna
Originally Posted By: SkateZilla


Broken drivers for me. I do not remember the last time I had issues with AMD drivers. Maybe on of the early Crimsons?

Games suddenly dropped from 70 frames to 25-30 and stutter like hell. Turns out the memory clocks were dropping from 1500 to 150 and staying there for no reason.

Adding Sapphire Trixx back helped to stabilize the clocks, but any game using Freesync would cause the screen to flicker like crazy.

Cleaned up with DDU and reverted back to 16.11.5 and I even got better performance than with the 16.12s.

Seen quite a lot of postings on this in various forums. Could it be that AMD is starting to EOL Fiji?


New Driver: http://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-articles...ease-Notes.aspx

Hopefully this is the fix for the issues I was having:
Quote:

Fixed Issues
Changing memory clocks with Radeon WattMan with more than one display connected may cause memory clocks to intermittently become stuck at their minimum setting or switch between min and max ranges intermittently causing display flickering.


EDIT: NOPE! Back to 16.11.5. sigh
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/31/17 02:33 AM

AMD Zen to only Do 4 Cores 8T, 8 Cores w/ SMT Disabled, 8 Cores 16T

No 2, 3 or 6 Versions, Zen is Fabbed in Groups of 4.
Posted By: BlueHeron

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 01/31/17 06:24 PM

Never understood why you would buy 6 core when you can get 4-core or 8-core.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/01/17 12:23 AM

A little more detail on the new Motherboards today. Notable:

One socket for all newer AMD CPUs and APUs -- now and for a few years of CPU/APU releases. "Bang for Buck" upgrading -- just buy the latest CPU or APU and plug it in. Unlike Intel in the past, AMD in the past has tried to stick with a "universal" motherboard for a few years at a time (but had one for CPU and one for APU -- now one MB fits all).

ASUS (and probably other) high end motherboards support 8 SATA drives (and probably/possibly some special extra fast SSD interfaces). I personally need 8 SATA.


Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/01/17 10:08 AM

Quote:
AMD FY 2016 Results Beat Analyst Expectations – Posts Loss Per Share Of $0.01 On Revenue of $1.11 Billion, Getting Ready For A Strong Q2 2017

..Our Take on AMD: Gearing up for a quiet Q1 but a roaring Q2 2017 with Ryzen and Vega
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/01/17 02:00 PM

Originally Posted By: BlueHeron
Never understood why you would buy 6 core when you can get 4-core or 8-core.


Because selling an 8-core chip with 2 bad ones disabled makes them cheaper. biggrin



The Jedi Master
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/01/17 03:54 PM

Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
Originally Posted By: BlueHeron
Never understood why you would buy 6 core when you can get 4-core or 8-core.


Because selling an 8-core chip with 2 bad ones disabled makes them cheaper. biggrin



The Jedi Master


The issue here is, Ryzen isnt Fabbed in Clusters of 2, they are Fabbed in clusters of 4.

So 4 Core, 8 Core, 12 Core, 16 Cores, up to 32 Cores.

They were mum to what they are doing w/ Fabs where any of the 4 cores have a defect.

Maybe down the line clearance chips. 3 or 6 core etc.
But I doubt it. if any of the 4 are defective, disable 2 via laser cut and sell as cheap entry level 2 core, but even that is likely a longshot as dual cores are pretty much obsolete 4 or more seems to be the minimum, and with the low power draw, 4 core CPU or 4 Core APU/GCN Cores will easily function fine in laptops.

if Zen Moves at a Decent Volume and yields are decent enough, AMD could likely afford to throw away any damaged clusters as a loss,

or if possible, like I said, Laser cut 2 off and sell to super low cost entry level laptop manufacturers as a OEM Dual/Three Core.



Also, Zen will Launch in March, w/ Vega in Q2.
Posted By: BlueHeron

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/01/17 04:13 PM

I see, it's a way to sell off chips with partial defects. Makes sense.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/01/17 09:23 PM

Quote:
AMD confirms Ryzen and Vega are on track

..Dr. Lisa Su also confirmed that its Ryzen CPUs, based on Zen CPU architecture, as well as socket AM4 motherboards, are still on track, scheduled to launch in Q1 2017. This means that these should be ready before the end of April, but earlier rumors suggest that AMD could make an official launch at the GDC 2017 show, which starts on February 27th.

Dr. Su also noted that the first graphics cards based on Vega GPU architecture should ship in Q2 2017, which means anywhere between May and August, but some earlier rumors suggesting May or June...
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/01/17 09:30 PM

GPUs have been doing this, too. For example, nvidia has been doing this with their 70/80/80Ti series. They're called CUs instead of cores, but it's the same principle.

Usually the first thing they start trying to make are 80s. The chips are designed with lets say 18 CUs. Early yields are always iffy, so the 80s will have 17 enabled CUs as odds are a huge amount of the early runs will have at least one faulty one.
The 70s will have even fewer CUs enabled, so that's where the chips with bigger flaws go at a lower price, although production cost is of course identical.

Later on, as yields improve, two things happen. First, 70s stop being failed 80s and are later revs of chips built with fewer CUs to start with (lower cost to produce, important as around this time the 70 prices start to come under pressure).
Second, the 80Ti comes out with all CUs enabled because yields are good enough. Still, a good percentage will need one disabled and be sold as a regular 80, but the number of fully functional chips now supports a Ti product line. This both gives the line a bump in sales and performance a couple of months after the initial flurry of activity, and helps fill the gap till the next gen arrives.




The Jedi Master
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/01/17 09:32 PM

Do AMD know that 'Q' is short for quarter?

Q1 ends 31st March
Q2 ends 30th June
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/01/17 09:53 PM

Some companies' fiscal years do not match the calendar year. I don't know what AMD's is offhand, but some companies started Q2 2017 in January. Maybe AMD's starts late?



The Jedi Master
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/01/17 10:18 PM

Interesting. As noted above, companies are free to define their own "quarters".

According to AMD, they do follow the normal calendar. That's different than what the article quoted above implied.

From the AMD site, the following example:

Quote:
12. What are AMD’s fiscal year and quarters?
AMD’s fiscal year follows the standard calendar year. Fiscal quarters for the 2015 year (exact dates are adjusted early):

First Quarter: December 28, 2014 – March 28, 2015
Second Quarter: March 29, 2015 – June 27, 2015
Third Quarter: June 28, 2015 – September 26, 2015
Fourth Quarter: September 27, 2015 – December 26, 2015
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/02/17 10:34 AM

Why we call what we post here about Ryzen and Vega "rumors" and "speculations" and "leaks" -- until the product is on the street and independently tested.

Quote:
AMD Ryzen Family Will Include 6 Core Processors – 6 Core Variant Will Clock Up To 3.7 GHz, 8 Core With Up To 4.0 GHz Clock Speeds

A day after it was rumored that the AMD Ryzen processor family will not include a 6 core model, another leak has popped up which says otherwise. Not only is it now confirmed that AMD will have a 6 core SKU in the line up but clock speeds for at least two models have also been confirmed.

AMD Ryzen High-End Processor Lineup Will Include Multiple 4, 6 and 8 Core Models With SMT Support

..The third 8 core model is the “ZD3601BAM88F4_40/36_Y” which is the highest clocked model with base clock of 3.6 GHz and boost clock of 4.0 GHz...
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/02/17 10:49 AM

On the Competition front:

Quote:
NVIDIA’s Interest in GeForce Founders Edition Graphics Cards Continues To Grow – Will Be Competing With Add-In-Board Partners

..plans to continue producing them in 2017 going forward. This will of course mean that NVIDIA will be competing with its very own add-in-board partners for the market share ...


We noted once before: Back in the day, 3DFx was the "unchallenged leader" in 3D graphics "chips". They made chips that they sold to graphics card makers. Then, they wanted "more". 3DFx bought its own factory and started making 3DFx cards. Within a very short time they were "out of business" (I think Nvidia bought their intellectual property, if I remember right). The details of their "fail" were "complicated" -- beyond the scope of this simple post.

While "competition is good", competing against your own manufacturing base does not always turn out well. However, I do expect Nvidia to keep moving along -- Nvidia is not the type to "fail".
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/02/17 03:25 PM

Making their own cards isnt what killed them, Over spending and Conflict withing the Board/Shareholders/Creditors did.
Being Stiffed for Millions in R&D By Sega Didnt Help.

Spent a lil too much Acquiring STB, negligible, but was a big deal, as they would not sell chips to OEM Partners and STB couldnt keep up in manufacturing or costs.

nVidia swooped in and swiped the OEM and ODM market from them.

CEO Shifted money from a Infantcy Project to Making All In One 2D/3D Cards Faster (VooDoo3), This Angered the Board.

The Nail in the Coffin was Direct3D, Which Voodoo 2 Did not support, So Gamers started purchasing other cards.

Market Share Dropped.

A few board Members filed to started bankruptcy proceedings, once started cannot be stopped, instead CEO Decided to Sell Company to nVidia.

nVidia Acquired all 3DFX IP, and Discontinued Support for all 3DFx Products.

nVidia Took the Developments of Hardware T&L and Applied it to their Next GPUs, Same with SLi
Posted By: Nixer

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/03/17 01:38 AM

Thanks for that.

And nVidia continues to DOMINATE the video card market, year after year. The best thing AMD has done is keep nVidia prices down...a little. Thanks.
Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/03/17 02:08 PM

Yes, if nvidia was to repeat the mistakes of 3DFx, when they are the ones that bought them in the first place, I would be astounded.



The Jedi Master
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/03/17 05:17 PM

it's a different market now than what it was 20 years ago.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/03/17 09:05 PM

A firmer Ryzen rumor (that has only a tiny little bit of new speculative information):

Quote:
AMD Ryzen Processor Lineup Leaks Out, R7 1800X 4 GHz Flagship CPU Detailed – Up To 17 8 Core, 6 Core, 4 Core Models, 2nd March Launch

..will feature up to 17 various models, utilizing the Zen core architecture..

..hints that AMD will have special overclocking models in the Ryzen family..

..expected to operate at base clocks of 3.6 GHz and boost clocks of 4.0 GHz..

..The [Top/Black] chip will have enthusiast level pricing so expect something around $499-$699 US...


The leak article does tend to say more about the lower level Ryzen units than previously.

Leak Article

Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/03/17 10:01 PM

wccftech is hit and miss,

And I believe no 6 cores has already been confirmed. (gonna have to double check)
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/04/17 03:19 PM

Articles About Intel CPU's w/ AMD GPU's

https://www.techpowerup.com/230360/first-intel-processor-with-amd-radeon-graphics-within-2017

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/56129/intel-cpu-amd-radeon-graphics-coming-year/index.html


Seems less like AMD GPU Built onto CPU and more like a Custom Laptop Daughterboard w/ CPU and GPU Dies on Same PCB next to each other.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/07/17 07:27 PM

A couple more articles that repeat some competition-type rumors -- basically, AMD going after more cash (which it needs).

Quote:
AMD Files A Lawsuit Against LG, Vizio, MediaTek and Sigma Designs For Infringing Its GPU Technology


Quote:
Intel’s Nvidia GPU license expires in March

..Industry veteran journalist Kyle Bennet wrote back in December that Intel might launch a CPU powered by Radeon technology. This happens in the middle of the last quarter when Nvidia and Intel's cross licensing GPU deal is about to expire..

..AMD will license its GPU technology to Intel and get some much-needed cash. Nvidia is always the more expensive choice. .. recognize the pattern that both PlayStation and Xbox stayed away from Nvidia simply as AMD was the more affordable choice..

..We would expect to see some announcements related to a potential AMD – Intel deal in the next few months .. many will argue that AMD is hardly going to benefit from it...
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/08/17 11:56 AM

Regarding Competition (which is good smile ):


Quote:
Intel Readies Kaby Lake-X Core i7-7740K and Core i5-7640K To Tackle Ryzen Chips – 112W TDP And Higher Clock Speeds

..The Intel Core i7-7740K processor will become the fastest Core i7 chip in the Kaby Lake lineup. It will replace the Core i7-7700K with slightly better specs. ..

The clock speeds are rated 4.3 GHz base and 4.5 GHz boost. The processor packs 8 MB of L3 cache and has a TDP of 112W. There’s no word on the retail price...


Due later this year.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/08/17 03:46 PM

http://hexus.net/tech/news/cpu/102274-amd-ryzens-x86-core-10pc-compact-intels/

AMD Zen is 10% Smaller than Intel's Chips.

3/6/12 Cores still unconfirmed (wccftech is still only "source" everyone else links back to them).
Intel Slot Chips w/ iCore CPU and AMD GPU on Single Substrate Package is still Rumors as well.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/09/17 10:19 AM

A rumor, but hyped as very credible, verifies some of the previous speculations:

Quote:
AMD Ryzen Lineup & Prices Confirmed, 8 Cores For As Low As $320

..expected on-shelf availability on March 2nd..

..include the Ryzen 7 1800X, Ryzen 7 1700X and Ryzen 7 1700. All three of these have been listed for pre-order on a number of online retailers and feature 8 cores and 16 threads..

..AMD’s highest performing Ryzen CPU, the 1800X will retail for less than $499. A piece of information we made public nearly three months ago in our exclusive Ryzen report. So we know that much hasn’t changed since November...




If it turns out this way, I'll spend the extra $100+ for the insignificant extra 0.2GHz -- however, I expect most folks to be smarter than that smile

I've already updated the disks in my current system (the one in the signature) towards the Ryzen build -- I added 2 3TB and 1 6TB drives (replacing 3 smaller HD). I have my new case.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/11/17 05:02 AM

http://www.barrons.com/articles/this-time-amds-revival-is-for-real-1486188068?sf54632957=1
Posted By: Vaderini

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/11/17 05:47 AM

For us without a subscription, could you summarize in points why the hype is justified this time around?

Sure, they're on the right track, but I see no reason how Ryzen and Vega will break Intel supremacy. They'll just force them to lower prices to non-monopoly standards at best.
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/11/17 11:06 AM

Originally Posted By: Vaderini
...They'll just force them to lower prices to non-monopoly standards at best.


You've given exactly the correct interpretation.

One theme in this thread is that AMD is good for competition and "competition is good" for everyone -- including Intel buyers smile

The rumor/speculation was that the AMD Ryzen CPUs will be nearly as good as Intel -- for significantly less money -- particularly in the 8core/16thread regime. The 8 core Ryzen may be equal or better for half the price -- was the speculation based on a few "leaks" that showed actual test data.

Worth noting that some recent games on advanced engines can make use of more than 4 cores. For example, some consoles have 8 "cores" (don't know how they are used in a game -- maybe all are not used). Also, consoles are AMD hardware -- thus, many future games will be optimized around AMD hardware (rather than Intel/Nvidia as in the past).

Now pre-order prices are showing up on the web that, if true, verify the low price. We won't be sure of the performance until the Ryzen is "on the street" and tested by the hardware sites.

Seems like release to the street will be in approximately 3 weeks. Initial quantities are expected to sell out quickly.

Of course, Intel will "have an answer".

Competition is good smile
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/12/17 11:41 AM

They say March 2 (but some still speculate February 28). They are noting "Extended Frequency Range" on three models. Those models are said to come with a special cooler.

The article repeats my thought (above) that some games now use 8 cores. Some time ago, I read on X-Plane's site that they are going much higher than 8 threads (I own X-Plane but haven't checked threads used when I play).

Quote:

..Full AMD Ryzen CPU Lineup Detailed – 17 95W-65W Chips With 8, 6 & 4 Cores To Choose From

The 17 SKU lineup includes five 8-core CPUs, four 6-core CPUs and eight 4-core CPUs. We have two Black Edition 8-core CPUs, one Black Edition 6-core and two Black Edition 4-core CPUs. The Black Editions feature AMD’s clever Extended Frequency Range technology, otherwise known as XFR..

XFR automatically overclocks Ryzen, allowing it to exceed the default Turbo clock speed whenever the thermal environment allows..

..AMD .. bundle Black Editions with the highest performing cooler they have. The better the cooling the higher the CPUs will “auto-overclock” so to speak...


Interesting that they seem to think the factory cooler will allow some overclocking. I don't expect much from a standard, in-the-box cooler (but a truly good cooler may be part of AMDs game-changing strategy). A more official looking listing -- showing the three special Ryzens near the top:

Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/12/17 06:26 PM

The Wraith Cooler, is A lot better than the old Alu Block w/ 4 Heatpipes and plate, I've worked w/ it on several 8 core FX8370s the last few months. and those are 140w plus parts,

Slap that Puppy on a 65-95w Part and you'll easily have 45-75w of TDP Headroom in a Cool Environment (ie 70° Room Temp).

Many companies are allowing users to apply for free AM4 Upgrade Kits for their Heatsinks too.


The Wraith Cooler is HUUUGE though



Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/12/17 10:04 PM

Quote:
AMD Ryzen Full Lineup Prices, Specs & Clock Speeds Leaked




Seems bang-for-buck competitive.
Posted By: SkateZilla

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/13/17 02:56 PM

http://hothardware.com/news/amds-ryzen-7-1700x-delivers-i7-6900k-performance-at-bargain-price
Posted By: Allen

Re: The Future And Current Status of AMD... - 02/13/17 03:08 PM

Quote:
AMD Ryzen X370 & B350 Asus Motherboard Prices Leaked – Launching February 24th


USA Pric