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Updates

Posted By: Dante-JT

Updates - 02/07/06 04:50 PM

We're been busy with some 'upgrading' of JT models to 2006/2007 standards. This means more details, more parts for damage modelling, and specially higher res textures, that Marcelo 'Marcfighter' is providing with great results.

Some screenshots I've took (still on my slightly ancient pc, notice the fps), they're of a rare very high altitude kind \:\) One of the nice improvements done recently, is that Steve somehow reduced to almost none the z-buffer flicking we had in the rock formations and ground clutter at this distant/height, so JT is pretty solid visually now and also running as a full native Win32app:



Posted By: rjetster

Re: Updates - 02/08/06 03:53 AM

Very very nice!

-Rjetster
Posted By: ECV56_PolTen

Re: Updates - 02/08/06 12:19 PM

Is it me or the refuel boom seems too thin and long? and I think there is something odd with the cannon, but I'm not sure of what.
Besides that, is good to have news \:\)
Posted By: Dante-JT

Re: Updates - 02/08/06 06:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Pablo Diez:
Is it me or the refuel boom seems too thin and long? and I think there is something odd with the cannon, but I'm not sure of what.
Besides that, is good to have news \:\)
I will fix those ASAP \:\) Indeed, the refuel probe looks somewhat strange from that angle. The nose contour should be smoothed too (more polygons/geometry) after all, we're aiming for 2007 standards. The cannons prolly suffer a problem of texture - should be darker/black according to photos I'm seeing here.

Thanks for the heads up! I will fix those and post some extra pics as soon as possible!
Posted By: Trident

Re: Updates - 02/08/06 09:04 PM

Good to see the terrain is looking nice at altitude, too!
Posted By: Dante-JT

Re: Updates - 02/09/06 07:42 AM

Refuel probe trimmed and corrected according to drawing of A-4B:



(notice that above drawing is right-side of plane and I've flipped it for the comparison - we cannot found a drawing of the left side of plane).

Cannons are corrected also, the textures will soon follow the corrections in the geometry and I will post some new screenshots tomorrow.
Posted By: Dante-JT

Re: Updates - 02/10/06 09:07 AM

Screenshots of the Halcones with corrected refuel probes and cannons - I will check later for more specific detail in the front gear door comms antenna:



Posted By: semmern

Re: Updates - 02/10/06 09:48 AM

That second to last screen is amazing! Best building I've ever seen in a sim. Man, I can't WAIT for JT! \:D
Posted By: vince-16

Re: Updates - 02/10/06 02:43 PM

Very nice !!!! And the background looks as good as the AC!
And there is definitely something I like in the graphics of this sim :p
Posted By: ECV56_PolTen

Re: Updates - 02/10/06 03:36 PM

Nice!
Posted By: acroig

Re: Updates - 02/10/06 04:47 PM

Che Pablo, is there any way we can beat the Brits this time? \:\)
Posted By: 2Lt_Joch

Re: Updates - 02/10/06 05:41 PM

Very nice shots. Keep up the good work. I am looking forward to this one, although I will be flying on the British side! ;\)

How is the Harrier coming along?
Posted By: Dante-JT

Re: Updates - 02/10/06 08:03 PM

Quote:
How is the Harrier coming along?
The Harrier and Sea Harrier will be updated too with more parts for damage model and higher resolution skins.

This art content updating is taking place because the programming side is entering a organization phase: we got a decent techdemo, with all basic parts required for a modern flight sim (terrain, cockpits/avionics, FM, some network and campaign code) - but then, to jump from this techdemo to something people could play and enjoy, is a huge step - I know due to my previous experience in the gaming industry - this way, we're organizing all code into a CVS (kindly provided by Steve in a Linux box in his house) and this will hopefully make it easier for expansion and integration of new code parts or enhancing current ones, together with a new programmer guided by Steve - I will be presenting him later - he did texture compression jobs for JT and at the moment he's in charge of CVS/code organization. \:\)
Posted By: semmern

Re: Updates - 02/11/06 01:02 AM

By the looks of things, JT will have that "look" to it that's hard to describe, but which makes the sim very believable and enjoyable. Other sims that just "feel" rights are EAW and Grand Prix Legends. JT is looking better and better!
Posted By: Marcantilan

Re: Updates - 02/11/06 02:22 AM

jaw dropping graphics!

can´t wait to fly those babies!

could I pre - buy (or something like) the sim ( to support the crew and reserve a copy)?
Posted By: Jester_159th

Re: Updates - 02/11/06 12:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by acroig:
Che Pablo, is there any way we can beat the Brits this time? \:\)
Only if you bring Maradonna along with his "hand of God"


Sorry. Couldn't resist. Should I run for cover now?
Posted By: Dante-JT

Re: Updates - 02/11/06 04:20 PM

The proper A-4C ('Charlie'), the one in previous pics was just an A-4B wearing a A-4C skin for test purposes:



Notice the more elegant nose and the extra weapon store in the wing.

The camo is based on the colors of this real plane:
http://modelersite.com/Dic2000/images/Skyhawks_Arg/A-4C_0.jpg
Posted By: vince-16

Re: Updates - 02/12/06 09:55 PM

TX for the update on your work \:\)
Posted By: Lemon

Re: Updates - 02/12/06 10:17 PM

\:\)
Posted By: acroig

Re: Updates - 02/13/06 05:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jester_159th:
Quote:
Originally posted by acroig:
Che Pablo, is there any way we can beat the Brits this time? \:\)
Only if you bring Maradonna along with his "hand of God"


Sorry. Couldn't resist. Should I run for cover now?
No need, the truth is an affirmative defense! \:D I can't wait for this to be released. Now Dante, let's make sure the bombs do explode here unlike the real thing. \:\)
Posted By: Stiglr

Re: Updates - 02/13/06 06:23 PM

Oh man, that's coooooold.....

\:D
Posted By: Jester_159th

Re: Updates - 02/14/06 04:36 AM

Oooooh. That stung!! \:D
Posted By: vince-16

Re: Updates - 02/24/06 07:56 PM

Quote:
Now Dante, let's make sure the bombs do explode here unlike the real thing.
well well if there is an option to simulate the real thing (ie some bombs not exploding for some particular reasons)I am more interested in that kind of things than top of the art pixel shader effects ;\) .....
Posted By: Dante-JT

Re: Updates - 05/08/06 12:50 AM

I'm doing some tests with shadows projected in the ground beneath the aircraft:
http://www.thunder-works.com/shadowtest.rar

Looking quite good as I can make soft boundaries in it (the shadow is just an alpha-channeled object going thru vertical axis of aircraft object, always being cast in ground). Although in the above video, the plane's standby parked position is slightly off (need fine tuning, it's noticeably too nose high). Also, we can also steer the planes on ground now, with good handling while taxying.
Posted By: DocW

Re: Updates - 05/09/06 12:04 PM

Thank you for the update. Breathtaking visuals ! I hope you make it.

Michael.
Posted By: nerves

Re: Updates - 05/10/06 04:32 PM

This is just freaking Awesome Work. I think JT will be the big Flight sim to hit since F4. Please focus on Realism. the Graphics are perfect.

What timeline and Network campabilities are you hoping for?
Posted By: Lemon

Re: Updates - 05/10/06 04:38 PM

Always look forward to your updates Dante \:\)
Posted By: Dante-JT

Re: Updates - 05/14/06 11:01 PM

To test this RapidShare thing and if it could help us with our bandwidth limits, I've uploaded a 40mb video demonstrating a complete flight from taxying, take-off, buzzing Stanley city and surroundings, a uneventful and smooth flight ending in a VTO landing back at Stanley airbase:

http://rapidshare.de/files/20476485/takeoff_flight_landing.rar.html

To download the file follow these 5 easy steps:

1. Left click on the link above
2. Click "free" which is located in the bottom right hand corner of the page
3. Scroll down to the bottom of the short page, and wait at least 22 seconds
4. Enter the 3 digit prompted password
5. Download

The video is a bit low quality and the codec distorts the bottom area of the video, but it's watcheable and a good demonstration of our FM and sim engine, already enjoyable enough for leisure flights and sight-seeing.
Posted By: DocW

Re: Updates - 05/15/06 03:54 AM


It is already looking great ! In those areas where you have objects in your landscape, you provide a good sense of speed and motion.
Town looks good as well.
The engine spooling sounds good.

A BIG thumbs up for your project !

michael.
Posted By: nerves

Re: Updates - 05/15/06 05:22 AM

holy freaking cow!!!!!!!!!!!! Awesome!!!!!!!!! when can I buy?!!!!!!
Posted By: ECV56_PolTen

Re: Updates - 05/16/06 12:47 PM

Downloading now from the crappy connection at the office (sometimes I wonder why do I complain about my home ADSL) :rolleyes:
Posted By: ECV56_PolTen

Re: Updates - 05/16/06 01:17 PM

Now, after watching the video, all I can say is: AWESOME!
Can't wait to the release date... (yeah, yeah, I know, "soon" \:D )
Posted By: Aladar

Re: Updates - 05/16/06 04:58 PM

Definately looks great! The sense of speed is outstanding, but the audio is incredible!!
Posted By: CCIP

Re: Updates - 05/16/06 05:17 PM

Fantastic!

The more I watch this project, the more I'm convinced that in due time, we'll have a classic sim on our hands \:\)
Posted By: vince-16

Re: Updates - 05/27/06 11:19 AM

Great video! I think that low level in that sim will be a blast \:\)
Posted By: Dante-JT

Re: Updates - 06/02/06 03:42 PM

Shipwrecks:
I've been working in making the textures of the clipper Lady Elizabeth 2 shipwreck model that Ariel Cancio modeled. The Falkland/Malvinas Islands are the biggest cemitery of visible 19th century shipwrecks, and we'll have at least 3 of these in the sim for sightseeing purposes, in their correct locations. Good for buzzing and screaming past their masts at low altitude.

This one in the pic below is the Lady Elizabeth 2, I've just dropped it in the game world at a few hundred meters from shoreline without caring about her exact location (which I know is Northeast of Stanley harbor, close enough so it can be seem in some war photos ):

Posted By: Lemon

Re: Updates - 06/02/06 06:22 PM

Splendid! \:\)
Posted By: DocW

Re: Updates - 06/02/06 07:20 PM

Excellent !
Keep them coming ...

Thanks for the update.
Posted By: piper

Re: Updates - 06/02/06 11:35 PM

I just love the cockpit shots! Looks amazing.

Like he said, thanks for the update!
Posted By: vince-16

Re: Updates - 06/03/06 01:52 PM

Quote:
The Falkland/Malvinas Islands are the biggest cemitery of visible 19th century shipwrecks
Didn't knew about that! Funny, sense of detail that is appreciated \:\)
Posted By: Dante-JT

Re: Updates - 06/03/06 03:57 PM

Yup. \:\)

Quote:
No doubt the tour will inform you that the Falklands have the highest number of visible shipwrecks in the world. The Falkland Islands Museum has a good display of maritime history.
http://gosouthamerica.about.com/cs/southamerica/a/FalFlkndIslands_3.htm

The other surfaced shipwrecks we will surely recreate and deploy in the sim world are the Jhelum and the Charles Cooper.

Probably more will be present in the final game, as these are just statics, unlike the other ships we don't need to worry about simulating their sensors range, AAA/SAM defenses and their commanding AI - they're dead. \:D
Posted By: Aladar

Re: Updates - 06/04/06 06:59 AM

Gah, Dante, you gotta stop posting all of this cool stuff. You're making the wait harder than it already is!! \:\)

Seriously though Dante, I cannot wait to see how this all falls together.
Posted By: DocW

Re: Updates - 06/04/06 08:17 AM

yeah, indeed, I really have high hopes four your baby, Dante. Cockpit looks awesome, and the low level flying really promised a sense for speed.

If it is possible to preorder to allow you guys some funding, I'd be in the boat.
Posted By: Dante-JT

Re: Updates - 06/08/06 03:17 PM

Carriers are back:

After a mysterious disappearance from previous builds, our huge HMS Hermes carrier model is back and now I'm even testing a wake trail for it, giving a good clue of the carrier's direction when you're coming to a VTO landing:


Posted By: DocW

Re: Updates - 06/08/06 03:28 PM

the carrier looks amazing !
Very nice model. Those "eyebrow lights" in the cockpit, will they have a function ? Just curious ...

thx for the update.
Posted By: Dante-JT

Re: Updates - 06/08/06 04:05 PM

Quote:
Very nice model. Those "eyebrow lights" in the cockpit, will they have a function ? Just curious ...
Yup. Those are warning lights. According to FRS.1 flight manual:
Quote:
Warnings were divided into primary warnings
(PW - red lights termed red captions) indicating critical occurrences requiring immediate action, and secondary warnings (SW - amber captions)
indicating less critical occurrences – but still requiring prompt action or constant attention.

In most cases the caption remains illuminated until the condition causing it ceases to exist.

The PW array comprised nine square red captions placed under the left
glareshield.
We got the full description of each warning light, but here's a short example:

Quote:
JPT :Engine has been overheated (Jet Pipe Temperature above 770°C dry or 780°C wet for the Pegasus Mk 104). This light remains on until the end of the flight. Caused by surge, malfunction or possibly fire. The
engine will be damaged depending upon how much it is overtemped and may fail. Land ASAP using minimum power.

Fire:Overheat or fire in engine bay. Failure or combat damage. Fire spreading to rest of airframe, loss of control, engine failure,explosion. Set throttle to idle and nozzles aft if practicable (i.e. not in the final
stages of landing).
Quote:
The amber lights were under the right glareshield. From left to right:
Quote:

IFF:Equipment switched off or faulty.
U/C:Landing gear retracted below 10,000 feet and 165 KIAS.
And finally, an example of the blue lights on bottom right:

Quote:

NWS:Continuous nose wheel steering engaged.
Land:Water injection switch set to landing.
This is quite easy to do in a logical sense in code, all going in the LUA cockpit scripts through a series of IF engine temp>770 then JPTlightON and so on.
Posted By: DocW

Re: Updates - 06/08/06 04:57 PM

Glad to hear that you model them accurately.
Outstanding. And it is apreciated that you took your time for the detailed answer (but the others will kill me for retarding your progress to the release \:D ).

I really cannot wait to get my hands on this.
Posted By: MoonJumper

Re: Updates - 06/08/06 08:35 PM

Great stuff Dante \:\)
Posted By: vince-16

Re: Updates - 06/08/06 08:57 PM

The carrier looks terrific \:\)
Posted By: FokkerDVIII

Re: Updates - 06/09/06 09:31 AM

As said above the carrier looks great.Im really craving this sim bad.Havent had a good harrier sim since Super VGA Harrier.
Posted By: Dante-JT

Re: Updates - 06/11/06 01:14 AM

Carrier VTO landing:

I've did a short video showing a typical VTO landing in the carrier with a clean and light Sea Harrier FRS.1. The carrier is anchored 2 miles off the south of Stanley for landing trials. The deck's elevator was 'accidentally' left opened so I had to avoid landing exactly in that hole - done, but I ended sinking left wingtip gear leg 1 meter into the carrier's port lower platform deck - ouch, almost slipped of the deck into the sea. \:\)

http://rapidshare.de/files/22747671/carrier_landing.rar.html

To download the file follow these 5 easy steps:

1. Left click on the link above
2. Click "free" which is located in the bottom right hand corner of the page
3. Scroll down to the bottom of the short page, and wait at least 22 seconds
4. Enter the 3 digit prompted password
5. Download
Posted By: DocW

Re: Updates - 06/11/06 04:48 AM

Looking very good, most amazing carrier model. Will there be some carrier deck animations in the final version, a few deck hands and the like ? I know it sounds insane, but carrier decks in simulations are always so lonesome and silent places, as opposed to reality.
IMHO, you should muffle the engine sound, which is very good, but I would expect it to be much more silent inside the cabin.

Thank you for the update.
Posted By: vince-16

Re: Updates - 06/11/06 10:29 AM

Thanks, I definitely like the carrier and the whole atmosphere \:\)
Posted By: Dante-JT

Re: Updates - 06/11/06 01:10 PM

Quote:
Looking very good, most amazing carrier model. Will there be some carrier deck animations in the final version, a few deck hands and the like ? I know it sounds insane, but carrier decks in simulations are always so lonesome and silent places, as opposed to reality.
Indeed, this is in my plans, we had a couple of deck crew models ready for ages, only need the engine to support character animation which is not really hard and soon it will support it, although we're at the moment more focused in getting all the gameplay features in place and working together.


Quote:

IMHO, you should muffle the engine sound, which is very good, but I would expect it to be much more silent inside the cabin.
Yup, I should muffle the sound to represent pilot's helmet/headset, but by hearing pilot's feedback, it's interesting to know that the Harrier cockpit is quite nosey, unlike other jets, because the Pegasus engine is just a couple of feet behind the pilot and it has a massive dry thrust. \:\)
Posted By: vince-16

Re: Updates - 06/11/06 03:30 PM

the more noisy it is (engine, explosions, cannon) the happier I am \:D sorry if I'm an unserious player :p
Posted By: destroyer

Re: Updates - 06/11/06 04:28 PM

Can you help me? i cant get the video clip to play with windows media player...What program will let me play the clips?
Posted By: Dante-JT

Re: Updates - 06/11/06 04:41 PM

Quote:

Can you help me? i cant get the video clip to play with windows media player...What program will let me play the clips?
I've saved the video with Windows Media 9 codec. I think you probably just need one of these codec packs freely available around in the internet, they provide all codecs needed to view videos with different compressions. This is one of these video codec packs:
http://www.free-codecs.com/download/K_Lite_Codec_Pack.htm
Posted By: DocW

Re: Updates - 06/11/06 05:45 PM

Dante, the only sim I heard of (I never bought it) that was said to simulate a crowded carrier deck was iF/A 18 Super Hornet ... if you'd make it up to some animation on the deck, that would be a really outstanding feature and leaves me a s a pretty happy camper \:D

The deck-chief model is top notch for a simulation.
Interesting trivia about the cockpit noise ... did not know that.

Man, it looks all so promising !
Posted By: Baco

Re: Updates - 06/12/06 07:04 PM

Impresive!
I almost feel like flying for the RN \:D \:D \:D

Now seriouslly, Beautifull!, simply Beautifull.

I bet JT is the best simulation of a Harrier ever builted?
Posted By: HarryR

Re: Updates - 06/12/06 09:30 PM

Dante, realy good stuff mate. You must have had a 20 fps sink rate at touchdown \:\)
I noticed you take a look to starboard after you land, what are the views from the cockpit like ? Can we expect the views to be stable enough to enable us to rock up at the carrier from the port side and decel to a running hovver, before sliding across to the deck and touching down? (or a comedy bounce/landing)? Carrier looks realy good btw. \:D
Posted By: Keithb77

Re: Updates - 06/12/06 10:31 PM

DI's Super Hornet had a fully operational deck including people, a little like lego men as I remember!

The latest version of Strikefighters (wings over Europe) has a very good Harrier, but its an old sim engine and I'm sure JT will be even better....

Cheers,
Keith
Posted By: Arnold

Re: Updates - 06/16/06 03:49 PM

Ah, the forum has been moved...

I am glad that it continues here!

Cheers and keep in touch!

Arnold

p.s. still very busy... but I contact you asap
Posted By: Dante-JT

Re: Updates - 06/19/06 06:21 PM

Shoreline effect tests:

I've been experimenting with a shoreline effect (alpha channel) it could be animated resulting in a smooth tide reaching the shores - I could perhaps overlap 2 or 3 of these tide layers to create a more dense 'high tide' effect at shorelines...


Posted By: DocW

Re: Updates - 06/20/06 04:05 AM

Again, very good looking. I think I can imagine what it would look like animated.
Don't know if it is only me, but the colours all appear to be very strong and dark, like in an expressionist's painting. Maybe it is related to your alpha settings. I like it.

Another question: Will the vector blast create sand clouds ?
Posted By: Trident

Re: Updates - 06/20/06 03:15 PM

Looks good. If you're looking for a source of inspiration, Il2 in its various incarnations does a very good job of this particular effect, AFAIK.
Posted By: semmern

Re: Updates - 06/20/06 05:30 PM

Looking good there guys! Colours look sort of "old war footage"-like. Very nice. I am so gonna love this sim! \:D
Posted By: Dante-JT

Re: Updates - 06/21/06 12:01 AM

Quote:
very strong and dark, like in an expressionist's painting. Maybe it is related to your alpha settings. I like it.
Has to do with my time of day experiments. At the Autumm/Winter season in South Atlantic, days are quite short as expected due to the Latitude, so at 4:00PM you're already in a darkening setting.

Quote:
Another question: Will the vector blast create sand clouds ?
Thrust vector blast? I expect so, as well as possibility of foreign objects injestion if you continuously remain hovering at very low alt into a cloud of sand and dust.
Posted By: DocW

Re: Updates - 06/21/06 03:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dante-JT:
Thrust vector blast? I expect so, as well as possibility of foreign objects injestion if you continuously remain hovering at very low alt into a cloud of sand and dust.
Its getting better and better ... unbelieveable.

Maybe you could release a vid on this, later ?
Posted By: Dante-JT

Re: Updates - 06/21/06 09:22 AM

Quote:
Maybe you could release a vid on this, later ?
Unfortunately this will take a while - feature still on paper, to tell the truth - but could be done by checking relative alt/speed of aircraft plus nozzles position and add a particle emitter in the ground below the aircraft.

At the moment the biggest concern is the weapons loadout system - wonder why we didn't released many videos yet showing different weapons delivery - this is undergoing a serious re-write and is priority.
Posted By: IvanK

Re: Updates - 06/21/06 11:00 AM

Good Luck with that Dante ... Figured out Hexoid steering symbology yet ? .... \:\)
Posted By: DocW

Re: Updates - 06/21/06 06:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dante-JT:
[QUOTE]At the moment the biggest concern is the weapons loadout system - wonder why we didn't released many videos yet showing different weapons delivery - this is undergoing a serious re-write and is priority.
well, if you come to a result ... I bet the audience would be grateful for a vid on this, too \:D

In terms of immersion, what about combat chatter and the battlefield enviroment ? Do you care for this ? At least for me, this makes a big difference in a sim: Realistic controllers, realistic combat chatter etc. Can you tell us something about the prospects ?

Anyway, already good work - bring it to a good end
Posted By: Dante-JT

Re: Updates - 06/21/06 07:44 PM

Quote:
Good Luck with that Dante ... Figured out Hexoid steering symbology yet ? ....
Hi Ivank! Long time no see you! \:\) There is so many things missing in our symbology that I don't know where to start...As you know, we got reference material about the FRS.1 that would be enough to create a Falcon4-like study sim of it, a pity we don't have the budget or the man-power to do so, would take several years per plane, so we're mining the flight manuals to extract the most relevant aspects of their operations - I think it's what IL2 devs do too, because in a flightsim featuring several flyable planes (survey sim?) it's humanly impossible to mimic entirely their actual flight manuals (I got some WW2 planes flightmanuals too and I see so many things left out - no blame on them, it's a question of priorities that we must understand).

But the hexoid steering will be there. \:\) As well as different HUD aircraft symbols (for VSTOL, reversionary modes etc), LFD target window, Sidewinder cross, Target Market Circle with the short radial line showing target aspect angle, and everything else which is useful to complete a interception. ;\)

DocW: yup, a planned JT website news update on weapon loadouts will appear soon. Ah, for sure the voices and comms part is a must - a bit of a program since we're in a shoestring budget and we're aware that good voice acting for games with British accent is quite expensive! But we'll find a workaround. ;\)
Posted By: CHDT

Re: Updates - 06/22/06 11:28 AM

About the external stores, I would really like to have the possibility of an external view, after having jettisoned the bombs, showing these bombs flying to the target, at first from near et progressively with a wider point of view (close-view and then progressively a more panoramic view from behind). Perhaps, during the few seconds when looking at the result of the attack, it could be possible to have the aircraft you fly making a realistic scriped escape manoeuver.

I'm also thinking of the same possibility for the Exocet of the Etendards. For instance, a few seconds, before the Exocet hits the targeted ship, you will lose automatically the cockpit view (option toggable, of course in case if you are in a combat)to see the last hundred meters of the missile towards its target.
Posted By: DocW

Re: Updates - 06/22/06 01:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by CHDT:
About the external stores, I would really like to have the possibility of an external view, after having jettisoned the bombs, showing these bombs flying to the target, at first from near et progressively with a wider point of view (close-view and then progressively a more panoramic view from behind). Perhaps, during the few seconds when looking at the result of the attack, it could be possible to have the aircraft you fly making a realistic scriped escape manoeuver.
I'd second that.
Posted By: Mo1974

Re: Updates - 06/22/06 05:01 PM

Hello to Dante-JT and all!
Looking forward to this title, and reading the updates with interest.
Have you posted system requirements yet or maybe they are not known yet. I am not planning to upgrade for a while.
Will 3ghz P4, 1gb ram, 128mb video, still be okay to run this?
Posted By: vince-16

Re: Updates - 06/22/06 06:36 PM

I hope Jet Thunder will not follow LOMAC example.....Graphics looks great but not excessively demanding......hope so ;\)
what matters for me is gameplay and "atmosphere" and in this respect Jet Thunder looks already very very great \:\)
Posted By: Dante-JT

Re: Updates - 06/23/06 02:16 AM

Quote:

About the external stores, I would really like to have the possibility of an external view, after having jettisoned the bombs, showing these bombs flying to the target, at first from near et progressively with a wider point of view (close-view and then progressively a more panoramic view from behind)
CHDT: Sounds good, I understand that flight simmers want to watch the action from all possible angles and positions, I'm a flight simmer too and I spend a lot of time watching recorded tracks in IL-2. If you play JT right now, you'll find it's view system too restricted: only a cockpit mouse-pan camera and a external chase camera, with an experimental fly-by camera with a couple of problems - hopefully we'd be revamping the whole view system to the standards of other flight sims around, including weapon view cameras and player-to-target cameras, things we seriously lack at the moment.

Quote:

Have you posted system requirements yet or maybe they are not known yet. I am not planning to upgrade for a while.
Will 3ghz P4, 1gb ram, 128mb video, still be okay to run this?
Mo1974: Yes, I've posted system requirements in our comprehensive internal design doc requested by the interested publishing companies. The system specs you've mentionated above are well inside the recommended specs, it will surely run very well in your system.

vince-16: thanks \:\) I should keep an eye all the time in JT's performance, sometimes stuff left behind in code hampered game's performance, but lately it's been very good, performance-wise.
Posted By: Mo1974

Re: Updates - 06/23/06 07:32 AM

Thanks Dante-JT, that's good news. Good luck with the development.
Here's hoping Margaret Thatcher is going to be modelled in-game as a deployable super weapon :}
Posted By: EAGLE_18

Re: Updates - 06/27/06 05:45 PM

I look forward to the news item! Keep up the good work!
Posted By: Dante-JT

Re: Updates - 07/13/06 04:58 AM

I've been working in the A-4B Skyhawk cockpit and getting it faithful to the instruments layout shown in the official Flight Manual; the argentineans got their used A-4D1 (A-4B) from "E" group surplus US Navy a/c (serials 142082 and upwards), there has been some extensive modification in the panel layouts of the Air Force A-4B (A-4P) with some local instruments added, but the CANA A-4Q didn't had too much modifications and the instruments layout was more close to standard A-4B group "E" planes, according to photos in the magazine "Aeroespacio" issue 567.
Posted By: Lemon

Re: Updates - 07/13/06 05:01 AM

That is beautiful. \:\)
Posted By: DocW

Re: Updates - 07/13/06 06:47 AM

awesome, Dante, great !
What kind of cockpits do you work on ? Are they clickable (not that I am fond of these, just curious) ?
Will navigation work (like ADF stations or a VOR/TACAN approach) ?

The cockpit is really, really awesome.

Thank you.
Posted By: vince-16

Re: Updates - 07/13/06 12:12 PM

Really beautiful pit thanks for the update.

Where are you on the Mirage III one?
Posted By: chronoPilot

Re: Updates - 07/13/06 04:09 PM

Analog gauges! Sweet! I'm not too familiar with the Argentine war, but if there were night operations, be sure to make the night plenty dark. Flying at night with no NVGs in an older aircraft, conducting combat operations with flares and 'paper' maps would be a real challenge. Great work!
Posted By: Uther

Re: Updates - 07/13/06 04:23 PM

Wow Dante, she's a real looker!
Posted By: Dante-JT

Re: Updates - 07/13/06 04:36 PM

Quote:

What kind of cockpits do you work on ? Are they clickable (not that I am fond of these, just curious) ?
Will navigation work (like ADF stations or a VOR/TACAN approach) ?
_DocW_: Not sure about clickable cockpits, but my design plan is to keep the player busy while at full realism settings during the long flight from Rio Gallegos to the islands, this means the player will not be just staring at the screen with Max Time Compression set to take the commands only over the islands/near target, just like the real life missions, he will have a high cockpit workload, for example, at briefing he'll receive the radio frequencies for Rio Gallegos tower for take off and landing procedures, ILS/Approach channel, the Tanker (FAA KC-130) on route, the Malvinas GCI (Puerto Argentino radar station who will keep him informed about Shar CAPs), in the Skyhawk's right console panel there's a dial and a frequency display, selecting the frequency he'll tune his radio to a comms channel with the respective UHF chatter freq, he can order 'radio silence' as well, similarly the british pilot can tune his radio to the Director at the HMS Exeter waship for example, or switch to another vessel for GCI if he lost contact with Exeter, and so on.

It must feels very dynamic, not only the multiple chatter frequencies, but system failures could lead to decisions to abort etc. Navigation should have a range of fixed stations as you mention, with the TACAN giving distance measurement to to tuned station (the gauge in bottom left shows the distance to station), etc

vince-16: I think I have to do another trip down to argentina to collect more cockpit photos for the Mirage. \:\)

chronoPilot: yup, night will be pretty dark so keep your eyes in the instruments to stay level and on course. ;\)
Posted By: DocW

Re: Updates - 07/13/06 05:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dante-JT:
[QUOTE]


It must feels very dynamic, not only the multiple chatter frequencies, but system failures could lead to decisions to abort etc. Navigation should have a range of fixed stations as you mention, with the TACAN giving distance measurement to to tuned station (the gauge in bottom left shows the distance to station), etc
ATC Chatter and real navigation ?
This is all I can ask for. Go ahead and finish it ;\) , looks like you worked up a wish-list from me \:D

Great !
Posted By: vince-16

Re: Updates - 07/13/06 05:20 PM

impressive indeed! I think I will love my radio in this sim \:\) .
Posted By: Lemon

Re: Updates - 07/13/06 07:52 PM

Quote:
It must feels very dynamic, not only the multiple chatter frequencies, but system failures could lead to decisions to abort etc. Navigation should have a range of fixed stations as you mention, with the TACAN giving distance measurement to to tuned station (the gauge in bottom left shows the distance to station), etc
Will you be able to recruit some of your Argentine contacts to record the dialog?
Posted By: Dante-JT

Re: Updates - 07/13/06 10:34 PM

Quote:
Will you be able to recruit some of your Argentine contacts to record the dialog?
Hopefully. \:\) I need also to get some argentinean help to get the jargon right, the current chatter freq words and commands that I've outlined in the design document are all towards british jargon, need some FAA help to get the argie jargon as well.
Posted By: piper

Re: Updates - 07/14/06 02:52 AM

That cockpit is beautiful! I love the A4!

Just open a payPal account and I'll send the money now. Can't wait for you guys to finish this one!
Posted By: 20mm

Re: Updates - 07/14/06 02:56 AM

Dante,
Just terrific.

I think you can tell, we're all drooling out here!
Posted By: ECV56_PolTen

Re: Updates - 07/14/06 12:28 PM

As far as I remember, the only Argentine planes that operated at night where the Canberras and the transports (mostly C-130).
Most of the attack flights made their return in the first hours of dawn, so it shouldn´t be too dark, even though in those latitudes get dark early at winter; but, I may be wrong.
Posted By: Baco

Re: Updates - 07/14/06 03:36 PM

Pablo, A-4´s and Mirages/Dagers did take off and land during the night. Oviouslly the Actual attack was carried out with daylight. But the distnace is so huge that they ussually took off before dawn Or got back after dusk, from the late afternoon missions.

Anyway, you will need good navigation skills if realisticly done, since no matter what tim it is, over the south atlantic, theres not many references to aid in navigation, so Time , speed and course tracking is a must. And if tehres wind, we are going to have our hands full just to get to the islands jejeje.

Dante you know we can get lots of candidates for the Argie chatter in the ECV-56 It would be a n honnor for us. And regarding the Jagon, well, It was quite coloquial, Not so strict an rigid as NATO or British comms. We can acce some recordings from the war if you care for them.

An actual acount:
(lousy translation)

"Aproching Malvinas, I contected CIC and they told me to follow the starit , the target was 130º reciproical...
I asked: Reciprocal?
The aswer was: Strait ahead, Pibe... Strait ahead" (derecho pibe, derecho...)
(pibe = kid)

This recolection is form my memory, I´ll look up the book and popst it literally ;\) .

SO there was little Brevety Code involved.

The Navy (COAN-ARA) did use much more Brevety codes and was mostlly NATOS standard.
Posted By: ECV56_PolTen

Re: Updates - 07/14/06 05:09 PM

I know, Juan, that they took off or landed in the dark, but I was refering to the mission per se.
Strictly, only the Canberras atacked at night.
Posted By: ECV56_PolTen

Re: Updates - 07/14/06 05:13 PM

Dante, it is not clear for me, is that an A-4B or Q cockpit?
If it is a Q, one fellow member of the ECV 56 tells me that is lacking the VLF Omenga that the pilots used to orient themselves when flying over the sea.
Posted By: Joe

Re: Updates - 07/14/06 06:42 PM



Quote:
Originally posted by Dante-JT:
Quote:

About the external stores, I would really like to have the possibility of an external view, after having jettisoned the bombs, showing these bombs flying to the target, at first from near et progressively with a wider point of view (close-view and then progressively a more panoramic view from behind)
CHDT: Sounds good, I understand that flight simmers want to watch the action from all possible angles and positions, I'm a flight simmer too and I spend a lot of time watching recorded tracks in IL-2. If you play JT right now, you'll find it's view system too restricted: only a cockpit mouse-pan camera and a external chase camera, with an experimental fly-by camera with a couple of problems - hopefully we'd be revamping the whole view system to the standards of other flight sims around, including weapon view cameras and player-to-target cameras, things we seriously lack at the moment.
This sounds a lot like the Jane's F-18 "destructo-cam" (perhaps the only arcadish term in the entire sim). When enabled in the game options, the descructo cam code informed the pilot when something cool was going to happen, and displayed a message at the bottom of the screen
PRESS 'V' FOR DESCTRUCTO-CAM

This let the pilot take a look if he or she so chose, but allowed remaining in the cockpit as well. If the destructo-cam option was disabled, then the message never appeared in flight.

Perhaps you might like to consider something similar for Jet Thunder.
Posted By: IvanK

Re: Updates - 07/14/06 10:25 PM

It will be interesting to see the Nav skills especially if the jetstreams frequent Jet Thunder, getting home against a 100knot + wind should be fun
Posted By: Nift

Re: Updates - 07/15/06 09:27 AM

This sim is looking better and better.

But, for the love of all that you hold dear, do not hobble this sim with the omission of a flight recorder option as is available in IL-2 and LockOn.

An example of this inadequacy can be seen in Strike Fighters; All that good looking terrain, skins, and aircraft detail wasted.
Posted By: DocW

Re: Updates - 07/15/06 12:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Nift:
But, for the love of all that you hold dear, do not hobble this sim with the omission of a flight recorder option as is available in IL-2 and LockOn.
loud applause here ...
Posted By: Dante-JT

Re: Updates - 07/15/06 06:18 PM

Pablo Diez: it's A-4Q, although at the moment I got only this pic as reference , it's an A-4Q cockpit photo (Malvinas time, remember that A-4Q were also A-4Bs sold for the CANA) from Aerospacio Magazine issue 567, it's small but I'm sure it matches A-4B group E cockpit layout in A-4B Flight Manual, but don't worry, Ariel Cancio in Argentina already ordered this past issue of this magazine and so we can scan and check the cockpit photo in detail. Although I don't see the VLF Omega controls in that small picture, maybe it was removed for the photo, I think that it was installed in the bottom right of the cockpit replacing that standard compass gauge, like you can check in the A-4B for display in Buenos Aires museum - if this is the case, it's easy to visually add this equipment as Cazador from ECV56Condor sent me great photos of A-4B, although I'd need extra research to model its operation because there is nothing about VLF Omega in the standard A-4B flight manuals I got (US).
This guy also has an VLF OMEGA station for sell here which matchs exactly the looks of the station photographed in the A-4B Skyhawk in Buenos Aires Museum. By the way, was the FAA A-4B Skyhawk supposed to have this equipment as well ?
Posted By: Dante-JT

Re: Updates - 07/17/06 12:25 AM

Quote:

We can acce some recordings from the war if you care for them.
Excellente, Baco. \:\) The argentinean chatter will be spoken in spanish, of course, with options for subtitles (in either spanish or english).

If you post some records of any IL-2, Lomac of F4 lan meeting of ECV56 Condor , which I'm sure you can get somehoe \:\) we can have a clue of how the chatter jargon will sound like in Malvinas campaign.
Posted By: Hot Meat Pie

Re: Updates - 07/17/06 06:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by IvanK:
It will be interesting to see the Nav skills especially if the jetstreams frequent Jet Thunder, getting home against a 100knot + wind should be fun
G'day Ivan

Would it of been possible to fly below the jetstream at all?

HMP
Posted By: IvanK

Re: Updates - 07/17/06 10:49 PM

Greetings Big Ben \:\) Indeed I believe it would and would have been part of the mission flight planning. In most cases using the Wind going to the target and staying out of the Jet on the way home. the jet being primarily West to East at these lattitudes.

There are a couple of issues however. Full of fuel and bombs thrust limits for Mirage/Dagger/A4 would limit outbound flights to a maximum of around 25,000feet so perhaps a little low for the jet core though some advantage would be gained. The Canberras on the other hand would most likely be able to take full advantage of the Jet on the outbound leg.

On the way home it would be a trade off (break even) go higher for the lower Fuel Flow or lower for a better Ground Speed but at higher Fuel Flow. The aim being to be at the best altitude for best Fuel burn per ground distance.
Posted By: Arnold

Re: Updates - 07/20/06 10:38 AM

Hey Dante and IvanK,

If you have any cool voice over stuff, send me a copy as well for it might be possible to use it in music or sounddesign stuff.

Arnold
Posted By: Baco

Re: Updates - 07/20/06 03:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dante-JT:
[QUOTE]
If you post some records of any IL-2, Lomac of F4 lan meeting of ECV56 Condor , which I'm sure you can get somehoe \:\) we can have a clue of how the chatter jargon will sound like in Malvinas campaign.
Of course I can record some MP sesions with the ECV-56, but that would hardlly resemble the Chatte of argentinian forces during the conflict. In a sim we are all home cozy and warm, sure that if we "die" we can watch some TV while another mission beggins.

The recordings I have heard from real fligths in 82 are full of adrenaline, exicetmenmt and restarin frustration, that explodes when the target is hit.

If you listen to a MP recording from Falcon 4.0 and the real thing form several recordings around the Net, you´ll see a lot of difference.

It is may opinnion that chatter in Flight sims is too bland, to artificial, almost like robots flying missions. The onlly one that comes close to real chatter is IL-2 with desperate yells, and stuff, at first quite hilarious, but its closer to the real thing to me.

I´have a large chunk of audio at home. I´ll put it up today, so you can get an idea of what I´m talking about.

Anyway, I´ll get to work with the people of ECV-56, and report back here with what we´ve got.
Posted By: DocW

Re: Updates - 07/20/06 04:48 PM

While I agree that instant chatter in a flight-sim has its limitations, I have to confess that one of the most annoying details of IL2 for is the chatter, which I consider robot-like and which kills the immersion right after take-off for me.
Combat chatter and ATC is in general one of the most important elements of immersion in a flight sim, IMHO.
For example, I really like the CP/G in Apache Longbow, though I have to admit after a time you recognize him as a robot. Other examples of relatively good chatter:
BOB
F4
MigAlley
The ATC of Jane's F/A 18 is quite good as well, I really like hanging around in a marshal and beeing stacked somewhere.
With some more diversion, those could become really good. I don't think it would put a load on processor or RAM if you have instead of let's say 15 combat chat elements 150 to choose from, am I right ? The problem will be the recording expenses and paying the actors.

Just my two cents.
Posted By: Baco

Re: Updates - 07/20/06 05:02 PM

I Must agree, and yes Inmersion is a very personal feeling, and what is grate for one my be a killer for the other.

It will be a while till I get home, but here is a little example of "Condor´s" Chatter in MP sesions, along a grate video by Santiago "Hooker" Cortelezzi.

http://www.ecv56condor.com.ar/modules/NS-Alas/lomac/videos/modecv56.zip
Posted By: Dante-JT

Re: Updates - 07/21/06 07:26 AM

Baco, that's an awesome video! The very distinct argentine accent is there and is a must-have in all JT chatter while flying for Argentina.

As DocW mentionated JF18 chatter, I must say that Jane's F-15 as well got a nice "all hell broke loose" chatter sometimes, with multiple wingmen calls overlapping with calls from the woman in the AWACs and warning sounds all over the place, check this video:
http://www.thunder-works.com/janesF15engaged_defensive.zip

This is somehow I think the flights of Skyhawks or Dagger would act in JT when jumped by enemy CAP, jettisoning all stores and breaking away while desperate calls are heard all over the place from wingmen, GCI Puerto Argentino Director and such. Of course in Spanish with the distinctive argentine accent. ;\)
Posted By: DocW

Re: Updates - 07/21/06 11:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dante-JT:
, check this video:
http://www.thunder-works.com/janesF15engaged_defensive.zip

thunderworks seems to be unreachable at the moment.
Posted By: ECV56_PolTen

Re: Updates - 07/21/06 03:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ]DocW[:
thunderworks seems to be unreachable at the moment.
Can't access either \:\(
Posted By: Dante-JT

Re: Updates - 07/21/06 07:41 PM

Indeed, seems it is offline for no apparent reason. Hopefully it'll be back in the next hours.

In the meanwhile, I've uploaded my rare JF15 video to rapidshare:
http://rapidshare.de/files/26550577/janesF15engaged_defensive.zip.html

Chatter is a bit 'robot' in some places as well, but it surely gives the mood and excitment of an engagement.

Edit: Yup seems thunderworks is back now \:\)
Posted By: DocW

Re: Updates - 07/22/06 03:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dante-JT:
check this video:
http://www.thunder-works.com/janesF15engaged_defensive.zip
yup, got it. Pretty cool. Very intense.
Posted By: ECV56_PolTen

Re: Updates - 07/24/06 03:25 PM

Well, if you ask me, that sounds pretty convincing. You should listen to the Spanish version of Janes F-15. Not even C3PO (the real one, not the member of this site \:D ) comes close to that robotic speech :rolleyes:
Posted By: vince-16

Re: Updates - 08/05/06 06:04 PM

In our sims radio chatter doesn't really sounds like radio, sound is too "clean".
Posted By: Dante-JT

Re: Updates - 08/20/06 04:58 AM

Working in conventional carrier operations in 25 de Mayo carrier:

Landing, hook down, AoA and approach speed A-4Q are right (~120knots)





touchdown, got first deck cable:


stopping


taxying for CAT SHOT


cat shot




cat shot almost ending in disaster due to lack of carrier speed resulting in this dangerous close call with plane heavy:



Still a lot to do (calibrating cables/arresting system, catapult power, wheel brakes effectivity, etc etc) but soon I will provide a video of carrier operations in 25 de Mayo carrier.
Posted By: Lemon

Re: Updates - 08/20/06 05:12 AM

\:\)
Posted By: DocW

Re: Updates - 08/20/06 09:30 AM

more, more, more !
Da capo !!
(standing ovations here).
Does the A4 do a drop after leaving the deck ?
Looks excellent !
Posted By: ECV56_PolTen

Re: Updates - 08/21/06 01:34 PM

I love you

Posted By: Baco

Re: Updates - 08/21/06 03:36 PM

It Shouldn´t, or onlly a slight drop, But the lack of speed on the carrier and power on the catapults is very, very realistic ;\) That is the reason the attack on the UK flee was aborted. No wind to launch the Scooters with a full combat load...
(in a place ussually too much wind hinders Naval aviation operations.. go figure.)

Dante, That is a sight to see..
A4-Q on the 25 de Mayo in a sim!
Not in my wildest dreams I had imagine such a thing. Thank you is an understatement ;\)
Posted By: DocW

Re: Updates - 08/21/06 03:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Baco-ECV56:
It Shouldn´t, or onlly a slight drop, But the lack of speed on the carrier and power on the catapults is very, very realistic ;\) That is the reason the attack on the UK flee was aborted. No wind to launch the Scooters with a full combat load...
(in a place ussually too much wind hinders Naval aviation operations.. go figure.)
Thx, that is an interesting piece of trivia. Any book recommendations ?
Posted By: IvanK

Re: Updates - 08/21/06 10:01 PM

"That is the reason the attack on the UK fleet was aborted. No wind to launch the Scooters with a full combat load..."

err or the thought of a nuke Hunter Killer Sub (or two) prowling the seaboard looking for the carrier, it had already sunk the Belgrano. The RN Submarine force effectively neutralised the Argentine Navy and kept them in Port.

I think a check of the performance numbers would indicate it would have been possible.

In addition The A4s were regularly Air Refuelled on the way to the Falklands. It would have been a easy method, Launch with little internal fuel hit the tanker Top up and press on. This method has been used by many Air Forces to stay within the weight/performance limits for take off with Max weapon load.
Posted By: DocW

Re: Updates - 08/22/06 04:04 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by IvanK:
err or the thought of a nuke Hunter Killer Sub (or two) prowling the seaboard looking for the carrier,
;)
Posted By: Dervish

Re: Updates - 08/22/06 04:43 AM

man, if the carrier ops feel right, that would be worth the price of admission for me
Posted By: Marcantilan

Re: Updates - 08/22/06 02:37 PM

No, it´s not.

By the first day of may, 1982, the RN (SSN HMS Spartan in particular) has lost contact with the 25 de Mayo carrier group.

But an S-2 Tracker of the argentine carrier pinpointed the HMS Hermes and HMS Invincible battle group.

As Baco said, the airwing was not launched because the lack of winds in the area, unable to launch the fully armed and loaded A4Q´s.

If you want to read a good history about that, and a good "what if", I could recommend you read this article

http://www.fav-club.com/articulos/1demayo.htm

Ws originally published in Mach 1 (the official Argentine Naval Aviation Magazine), and the author is Carlos Cal, one of the Tracker pilots onboard 25 de Mayo that day.
Posted By: IvanK

Re: Updates - 08/22/06 10:16 PM

Well lets see some "Wind over the deck" numbers for the A4 25 May combination.

Another well respected book is Falkands The Air war by the British Aviation Research group. It is a very well balanced dissection of the Air War with Argentinian input as well. Here is their description of this event/Day.



They too mention the Light winds theory but use the term "suggest". I think there is a more deeper reason the strike wasnt launched. According to this account the S2 Tracker had lost contact so no form of strike direction would have been possible. With a limited Nav kit fitout I doubt wether the A4's could have found the RN fleet on their own, with Strike direction available from the Tracker it might have been viable. This I believe was the real reason the sortie would have been in vain and a decision was made to cancel it. If Wind over the deck was going to be an issue then why even load up the aeroplanes and brief the mission knowing you couldnt get airborne ? This report also indicates the combatants were seperated by 150nm (278Km), thats not a long way at all.

If it was simply the light winds theory then why were no A4 strikes launched from the carrier subsequently in the next 3 days ? Why did the carrier return to port on the 5 May... and remain there for the rest of the conflict ? IMO it was husbanding resources. The presance of an unkown number of Nuke subs of the Argentianian coast effectively blockaded the Argentine Navys capital ships into their home ports.

In the subsequent shore based strikes I think the Argentine pilots both Navy and Air Force demonstrated amazing courage/determination and airmanship. If you do the Fuel calculations for the Mirage/Dagger operations in particular the magnitude of what was achieved comes to the fore.

By the way the link you refer to has some inconsistencies. there is some Gun camera imagery under the section headed "En un A4-Q de ataque". The gunsight imagery is of a Dagger/Mirage III attack, with the sight depression set for a Low angle bombing, its not the gunsight of an A4Q. The title of the page "Un relato imaginario" doesnt that mean an imaginary story ?
Posted By: Marcantilan

Re: Updates - 08/23/06 01:08 AM

I insist in my point, according to Argentine Navy sources.

Extract from "No Vencidos" (semi official account of naval operations in the South Atlantic conflict), pag 256.

Loose translation (my english is not that good)

"The carrier sailed as fast the machinery could.

The goal, to reach the 40 knots of relative wind, necesary to launch the carrier air wing: 6 A4Q´s loaded with 6 250kg bombs each. The CAW needed to travel 240 miles, hit the british carriers and back.

But the problem went critic when an absolute calm started. Tha lack of wind meant the A4 jets only could depart with 2 bombs.

The projections suggested that only one of the six skyhawks could reach the carriers and drop the bombs, so the damage of only two bombs was considered negligible and thus, the operation aborted."

Early in May 2, a Harrier detected the 25 de Mayo carrier group. Without an antidote for nuke subs, the commander of TF 79.1 sailed to port.

The CAW was latter used in a multitude of roles: while A4Q Skyhawks destroyed HMS Antelope and Ardent, Trackers and Sea Kings were used actively in SAR, Recon and sub hunting missions.

And finally, the page mentioned in my early post, contains two parts. One historical about what happened and what not and the last one is a what if: what if the wind blows and the skyhawks finally launched?

Of course, it´s always my pleasure to talk (virtually) with a Mirage pilot!!!!! .)
Posted By: ECV56_PolTen

Re: Updates - 08/23/06 12:56 PM

Both theories seem very plausible, wind (the lack of) or submarine stalking.
I think the lack of wind is the more probable since the sub danger was known but was not "convincing" until the next day when Belgrano was sink.

Anyway, we are drifting from the original subject of this post, that is the very interesting updates that the people of Thunder Works (especially Dante) give us from time to time.

Every piece of screenshot or information makes the wait harder
Posted By: ricnunes

Re: Updates - 08/23/06 02:31 PM

Please don't get me wrong but I'm always suspicious of Argetinian sources about the Falkland War. Wasn't the Argentinians official sources that claimed to have hit the HMS Invincible during the Falklands war? This as everyone knows was absolutely false.
So if I have to choose which side (Argentina or Britain) I think it covered the conflict more faithfully to the truth I'll definitly pick the British one!
With wind or not, the truth is that the 25 de Mayo was ordered back home right after the Belgrano was sunk and it makes sense that the 25 de Mayo wasn't used any further because of the Sub threat since it destroyed one of the two most important ships of the Argentinian Navy! Every historian or military analyst around the world seem to concur with the "Sub Threat" theory (except the ones from Argentina, that is)

So I'm with IvanK, if the "Wind theory" was the reason why no attack was launched from the 25 de Mayo than there wouldn't be absolutely no reason to launch other raids against the British Fleet(on the following days for example).

Well, my 2 cents...
Posted By: ECV56_PolTen

Re: Updates - 08/23/06 03:39 PM

The fleet was indeed ordered to continental waters, but that was after the failed launch because of the lack of wind. So, your assumption is correct; the first day the A-4Q couldn't launch from deck because there was no wind, the following day, the Belgrano was sink and the planes had to operate from mainland when the 25 de Mayo retreated to safe waters.
Anyway, the navy continued operating with small vessels if I recall correctly (my knowledge of the conflict is mostly from the air war); the "capital" ships where the ones ordered back. Somebody with more knowledge about the naval operations should confirm this; but, as I said before that would be a matter of another thread, not this one.
About the sources, I find questionable facts in both versions.
Posted By: chronoPilot

Re: Updates - 08/23/06 05:24 PM

[Sarcasm]
Yada yada :rolleyes: . You Argentinians and Britains have too much nationalism . Don't you watch Fox News . [/Sarcasm]

This game really looks like it's coming together. Aircraft that haven't seen a lot of simulation + A theatre that hasn't seen simulation + carrier ops. If Thunderworks can bring this to market, I think it'll be a hit in the sim community. Can't wait :peeingpants:! I like the smokey exhaust in those captures, too!
Posted By: Baco

Re: Updates - 08/23/06 06:36 PM

Agrred To much Nationalism \:\)

Still, I have spoken with teh pilots that attacked the Invincible and I for one belives them. No propaganda machine, no government, teh Pilot Vicecmodoro Isaak and me, no cameras (except mine of course ;\) , no media. Just the man an me. I belive him.

You, of course can sustain that the Invincible was never attacked an belive your sources.

Moot point discussing this issues since there is no way the UK will give us the right information till the Ban is lifted (after 20 years still the documents are restricted.. if never hit why?) but anyway I´m in "Scully´s" territory here with the cosnpiracy and all. So OK, Let´s say that Officially the Invincible was never hit.

I will still belive what I may of course ;\) .

About the wind thing. Its a Fact, the 25 de Mayo was scuttled and sold as scrap metal couse it´s power plants could not generate enough speed to launch anithing usefull, and to have it as a helicopter carrier was a waste of money.

Anyway I am just arguing, not discussing in a bad mood. So don´t take it personally. I propose my view of the events, you yours, and we can exchange opinions, Nothing more than that. But sometimes the proces sheds some light and it sure is interesting to know how the other side views things right?

Cheers.
Posted By: vince-16

Re: Updates - 08/28/06 09:26 AM

Very interesting discussion guys, thanks much for the reading. I hope to read much of that kind of stuff here when the game is out. That's among the reason this particular forum is much promising.

And great screenshots above :p
Posted By: Dante-JT

Re: Updates - 08/28/06 12:10 PM

More screenshots of the A-4Q external view, while I'm still working hard in the integration of the cockpit to the simulator.















Notice the brighter sea in some pics (following advice from ECV56 forum members), this is actually a setting that will vary a lot depending on weather/time of day.
Posted By: ECV56_PolTen

Re: Updates - 08/28/06 12:34 PM

Beautiful
Posted By: ECV56_PolTen

Re: Updates - 08/28/06 03:03 PM

Dante, one of my "sources" tells me that the Argentine marking under the wing in this screenshot isn't correct.
Posted By: Dante-JT

Re: Updates - 08/28/06 08:19 PM

Pablo Diez, your source is right, I've just checked in Jorge Nuñez Padín A-4Q book and there's a small photo in page 27 of an A-4Q taking off from 25 de Mayo and I see the "anchor" under wing just like over wing - I will fix it \:\)
Posted By: chronoPilot

Re: Updates - 08/28/06 08:55 PM

Wow! Those are really looking good!
Posted By: Desert_Fox

Re: Updates - 08/28/06 11:44 PM

Excellent \:\)

Dante, do you plan to make a forum for this sim in your web?

Cheers
Posted By: Dante-JT

Re: Updates - 08/29/06 01:45 AM

Pablo Diez: I just did a quick fix myself in the underwing 'decal':


I also agree that the A-4Q should be more white, it's too grey now, compared to the real one, will be fixed too.

Desert_Fox: possibly.
Posted By: Lemon

Re: Updates - 08/29/06 08:16 AM

\:\) !
Posted By: Trident

Re: Updates - 08/29/06 07:54 PM

Getting better every time, good work!
Posted By: Blade_RJ

Re: Updates - 09/09/06 07:01 PM

how long untill we cant make a fictional brazil argentian war provoked by a football (for americans ,soccer) match? \:D
Posted By: Marcantilan

Re: Updates - 09/10/06 11:35 PM

Soccer war...an old idea...

http://www.onwar.com/aced/data/sierra/soccer1969.htm
Posted By: Aulette

Re: Updates - 09/11/06 04:24 AM

Não vejo a hora de ver isso sair.

quem vai publicar essa maravilha no Brasil?
Posted By: Dante-JT

Re: Updates - 09/12/06 07:29 AM

Aulette, penso em realizar uma parceria com uma das excelentes revistas de aviação disponíveis nas bancas do Brasil, assim, o CD é vendido ao preço de CD de revista, ou seja, entre R$15,00 e R$30,00, muito mais em conta pro entusiasta brasileiro (similar ao que foi feito naquele lançamento do Livro "Flanker" pela revista Asas).

(I think that for brazilian release, a sort of partnership could be arranged with one of the excellent local publications about aviation, specially historical aviation, it has been done recently with some aviation-related products directly marketed to the enthusiast this way.)
Posted By: Zbop

Re: Updates - 10/20/06 01:51 PM

Getting better every time, good work!

Agree, nice work
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