Wings Over The Reich Now Released!

Hi All,

After a long hard slog to get here, the wait is over.

Wings Over The Reich is now available.

Please see www.wingsoverthereich.com



Box for illustration only


Also many thanks to the Beta testers for helping get us over the line...

Ordered - Downloading

2.81 GB download.

Congratulations!

Can you tell me what is included in the 'launch price'?

Waiting for the download link ...

Chucky, what's included? - Look on the store page where you saw those two words, scroll down, its goes through what's in there aircraft etc.

Here's the info copy and pasted:

WINGS OVER THE REICH WW2 COMBAT FLIGHT SIMULATOR
FEATURE OVERVIEW

OBD Software is proud to bring you their trademark, immersive single player combat flight simulation,
experience - now for World War Two!

OBD Software is proud to bring you their trademark immersive single player combat flight simulation experience
- now for World War Two!

Leading on from “WOFF” our immersive WW1 combat flight simulator, WINGS OVER THE REICH (known as ‘WOTR’) brings all this and more :

.: OBD’s Unique Dynamic Campaign Engine specially for WW2.

Newly designed dynamic campaign system covering the 5 main phases of the Battle of Britain from 10th July to 31st October 1940.
Enlist in one of: 36 British Squadrons - including the famous RAF 303 Polish Squadron 22 German Squadrons

.: Detailed Player Flyable Aircraft:

Hawker Hurricane MKI (Late)

Messerschmitt Bf109 ‘Emil’ E4

Both complete with fully immersive hyper detailed cockpits.

.: Detailed AI only aircraft:

Spitfire MKIa

Junkers Ju88 A1

Junkers Ju87 B1

Messerschmitt Bf 110 C4

Dornier Do17 Z2

Heinkel He111 H2

.: Quick Combat Set up mini battles to test your mettle.

Quickly save setup missions as Quick Scenarios.

.: Quick Scenarios

Jump in more detailed pre set missions without playing in campaign, or fly your own made via QC, or other missions

.: Superb Artificial Intelligence "AI" WOTR brings a thrilling WW2 experience using our superb AI technology - improved for the demands of WW2.

The AI is based on competent AI features seen in WOFF

.: Superb Scenery and Scenery Objects Improved scenery for WW2 England and France.

.: WW2 Damage systems More detailed damage systems, partial / full damage to various parts such as ailerons, elevators, wings, fuselage panels and so on.

.: Full Original WOTR Music Score by MATT MILNE! A brand new full score written specially for WOTR containing 16 superb tracks to get you into the mood!

Matt also wrote the highly praised haunting musical scores in the WOFF series of flight simulators.

It costs 36 euros including VAT , a fair price thank you .

Thanks Polovski,I did note that. I see 'Phase 1' is where you are at now and then I see 'Phase 2' which will be extended to Europe. Will Phase 2 be DLC? It's not clear to me.

I must have got it wrong... I understood it would start with the Battle Of France?

With only two aircraft, no examples of the campaign UI, no information on HA's being included, an unrepresentative gameplay trailer, no concise roadmap on development and what seems to be virtually no content for the Luftwaffe to play against, I've got no idea what to expect and there's just not enough meat on the bones to justify the price right now.

Looking forward to seeing how WoTR develops, though. When things are a bit more fleshed out I'll certainly throw my hat in the ring.

Which exacly Bf-109E is present, BTW?

Did not run the game, but according to the pictures : E4

Dornil - E4

Each to his own Space_Ghost.

So the first issue is that the pdf info on installation does not match what I Have in my download which is 3 files. not 4 and totally different names,
WingsOverTheReich_V1.00 Application
WingsOverTheReich_V1.00-1a binary
WingsOverTheReich_V1.00-1b binary

The PDF was corrected but not uploaded, corrected one there now, thanks mongoose. If that's the major issue then we'll be happy

Guys please post any further technical issues in the Technical issues thread.

Thanks.

Please check the feature list and review the trailer for content and state of play. Please review past OBD releases for its development roadmap and what to expect.

Dowbloaded and installed. Now all you guys need to add is a feature that sends my kids to bed. Maybe Version 1.1?

Honestly I have been looking forward to this ever since it was announced and I am psyked to give it a go. Thanks OBD crew for your amazing efforts and responsiveness in this forum!

Downloaded and installed with no problems. Looking forward to diving into a new career this evening!!

Thanks Matt

Yes how can that be an unrepresentative game-play trailer? It's very representative as all the flying is from the sim!

The video alone shows game-play including several phases from the 5 main BOB phases.
Shipping attacks.
South England airfields, radar attacks etc,
Night Raids over London, and so on.

It also nicely shows comms from AI aircraft (all in game recording) acknowledging and responding to player with correct speech, and it matches what they are doing and so on.
Cockpits and damage, scenery and lighting,

There's loads of info out there on our AI, campaign etc in WOFF on which WOTR is based and improved on. Info on our overflandersfields.com website (both WOFF and WOTR websites have links to each other). Also SIMHQ forum itself has lots of info and a general idea of what we do with that should give you a good idea.

The AI alone is worth the admission, very few sims - if any have AI on a par.

Luftwaffe? In your ME109 you fly across to England and fight off Hurricanes and Spitfires, escorting, or attacking, or patrolling and so on .. and seriously watch your fuel gauge. Plenty to do.

I guess it comes down to do you like WW2 sims, and the idea of an immersive single player dynamic campaign with missions never being the same, similar to WOFF's detail, specially designed for the Battle of Britain over great terrain?
34.99 dollars is peanuts for the experience that will keep on giving
Yes we can add more if it's supported. WOFF has been going and improving for many many years.

Honestly, I don't know where people are getting these expectations. It seems weird to me in a games industry where AAA games sell for $60-80 just for a basic edition (without DLCs and microtransactions) and, once you strip away the shiny graphics, offer pretty limited content especially on the single-player front. It also seems weird to me in flight simulation where all new releases are substantially more expensive. Yes, IL-2 Cliffs of Dover or BoB II Wings of Victory are great titles that cost less (though at list price, not THAT much less), but neither is a new release. Both have long collected their dues and broke even. Why can't we grant OBD the same privilege, at least?

Also, maybe more importantly, while I understand that a new customer might be puzzled by the marketing, anyone who knows anything in the flight simming community should know better than that, even just based on (W)OFF and what it proved itself to be. I totally missed the OFF phase myself, though I knew it well by reputation - but I bought everything WOFF at full original price except for one expansion pack I missed, plus UE which I got the discount for. Years later, I still consider that $200ish money well spent, and anybody can enjoy the same content now for 30 bucks - and I hope they do. Because I wasn't getting it for the quantity. Heck, I've not spent more than a couple of minutes in at least 2/3rds of the actual available planes. That's not the point for me.

Yes, IL-2 1946 (a fantastic game in its own right and for its time) costs $5 and has what, 600 aircraft and 30 maps out of the box? Well, that's great. I've had some good times in that game, especially in multiplayer. But I also sort of don't care to play it anymore because the dynamic campaigns aren't really dynamic (though something like DCG does help remedy that), the world feels kind of mechanical and restricted, and the AI behaves like suicidal robots.

Yet I could fly nothing but a Nieuport from the same airfield for a year and not get bored in WOFF. Because it's not the quantity or the feature set, but the fact that the game has a gorgeous, expansive world that feels much more alive - and a fantastic AI that feels a lot more human. Just those two things alone are enough to keep me coming back over and over - and there's more than just two things in WOFF. I don't play this game because I want a clone of another product but in a WWI setting, with a directly comparable feature set. I play it because it's WOFF, and it has its own unique identity and feel that hits the spot for me in a way no other game does, no matter how many boxes it theoretically ticks.

So it is with WOTR, which I just downloaded. I'll grant the possibility that OBD could have soiled the sleeping-place this time, so to speak, but... really, what are the odds of that?

I've been talking to a lot of people lately about the problems of marketing 'hardcore' simulations and wargames, and I keep coming to the conclusion that while small teams that build these things could almost always do better at marketing and presenting themselves, people give studios like OBD way more of a hard time about it than they deserve. They could do better. They could do worse. I'm just glad they're there. Ultimately, nobody's figured out the perfect way to make everybody happy with a niche, independent product like this - and that includes the new customers, the old die-hards, and the developers themselves. Something always has to give, and someone will always end up grumbling. But at the very least, between the developer and the sim community's hardcore, we shouldn't even be having this kind of conversation about an $35 price tag on a brand new game derived from something as solid as WOFF. You might not really want it, okay, that's fine. Your friend who plays War Thunder without spending any cash on it might not want it either, and that's fine too (both for War Thunder and for said friend). A certain percentage of players might play a few hours and not really get into it. But I straight-up refuse to believe that most people who spend $35 on WOTR aren't going to get their money's worth out of it and then some, and a good portion of them will probably love it. There is no way that someone who's been playing WWII flight sims for a long time could really believe it's not worth it, when you average out the odds and likely playtime that those who get it will put into it.

I might be wrong, I don't know.
But I'm about to launch WOTR and find out for myself

ccip gets it.

Some really early first impressions from my end!

-Is it WOFF in WWII? Yeah, pretty much - that is, it'll seem familiar to anybody who'd played that. Controls, menus, views, the whole lot of the presentation is basically unchanged. Not a bad thing, if you like WOFF.
-The terrain is looking good! I was glad to see that it's not a copy-paste of the the existing WWI-era map of England from WOFF. It looks like WWII England. London seems to have sprawled out and become a bit denser in most places. Buildings in many places look a good bit different. Trees are denser and more varied. The landscape overall is not quite as sharp and vibrant as say IL-2 CloD's England terrain, but makes up for it with some lovingly-crafted details you'd expect like livestock and the lot. Plenty of landmarks, and a ton of airfields - I've only poked around a little, but it seems like 10, 11 and 12 Group fields are basically all present and accounted for. Object counts and draw distances have definitely increased since WOFF.
-Water looks great, clouds look great, some new effects here and there.
-Cockpits are very good. Again, not better than comparable titles, but plenty good enough on the eye. No clickable switches, but the instruments are sharp and all seem to work as expected. Textures are a little flat in places, but the lighting and shadowing of the cockpit is smooth and gives you a good feeling of depth.
-Aircraft models are good, though the poly counts and texture resolutions aren't going to wow anyone - showing the base engine's age a bit here. Variety of skins is really limited right now.
-Flyable aircraft... well, what you see is what you get! For now it's Hurri Mk.I and Bf 109E-4, and that's all for the moment. Neither comes with a lot of paint schemes out of the box.
-Lack of documentation or training on the aircraft right now is a bit disappointing. Both of the main planes have some really important quirks, and unless you already know them from elsewhere, you might feel a little lost at first!
-Flight models seem good on first try, as far as I can gather. The Hurricane seems at a fair bit of handicap against the 109 - feels like a weighty aircraft, but rugged. Stalls and spins are harsh, but compared to most of WOFF's WWI aircraft are much easier to recover from.
-The AI's survival instincts from WOFF that I so much enjoy are definitely intact. If they don't like what they're seeing, they're off. Hooray! And on initial dogfighting, the Bf 109s were definitely doing booming and zooming all the way, and not getting tangled up in knife fights. If you fly RAF, I can already tell you'll be in for a tough time if you choose to take on fighters. (edit: after trying a couple of campaign missions - confirmed!!)
-Game generally runs good and stable, as you'd expect it - though does retain some of the CFS3/WOFF quirks, such as its finickiness about alt-tabbing. Frame rates are a little lower than I'm used to in WOFF, but proportionally to the increase in detail/draw distances - which means you can get it back up by lowering settings a little.
-The team continues evolving the engine bit by bit as in WOFF - as I mentioned, there's some noticeable (but not huge) improvements in details. But it's also a work in progress - for example, there's some intriguing placeholders in the UI, like a DX11 render option, which for the moment is greyed out.
-The new flak definitely made me sit up and go wow! Impressive job. I think the smoke sprites themselves could be a little larger and more uneven, but the animations, sound, and "oomph" to flak is just fantastic overall. I am going to be really excited to see the flak really go to work when WOTR moves over to strategic bombing of the continent....
-Damage effects in flight are pretty reasonable - bullet holes, parts getting shot off and all. I turned the AI gun accuracy to low, particularly for the tail gunners - they still seem to be pretty good shots, but not excessively so. Gunfire seems generally more immediately deadly to the aircraft (if not the pilot).
-There's a pretty hilarious glitch (hopefully to be fixed soon!) with bailing out - your pilot will jump and clear the aircraft just fine, parachute deployed... then proceed to drop to the ground faster than your aircraft in a fatal nosedive! It looks silly, though seems to have no bearing on the result. Aircraft also do some funny things after crashing, especially into the water - e.g. a plane that nosedived into the Channel will leave a very intact-looking fuselage standing on its nose right in the water.
-Sound is very good on first impression. Still getting used to it - not sure what I think of the engine sounds yet - but there's a lot of neat ambient sound and a lot of 'oomph' to things in general.
-Radio comms are rudimentary, but I'm intrigued by some of what I see. Playing as RAF, you do indeed get vectors from ground control - and the information you get from them isn't always precise. Sometimes you get pretty vague directions and intel.
-Don't have a good sense of the campaign yet but, again, seems to be functionally identical to WOFF - and that's a good thing in my book. Can't tell you how well it captures the real actions of that period yet, but looks promising. The couple of campaign missions I flew, in July over water as RAF, seemed pretty busy. Both were scrambles to contacts made by RDF stations, if the briefings are to be believed. The Germans were active and quickly concentrated in one area (though the formations weren't too dense), and their fighters were never too far away from their bombers. I usually spotted the fighters first, and although I'm not too positive on that - at least over the channel/Thames estuary, I was only catching bombers during egress. I was mostly encountering them in multiple groups of 6-8 at altitudes over 12-15,000 - they passed through the same areas in a relatively brief space of time and scooted out. I usually seemed to be able to get at the bombers - but only very briefly before the 109s were all over me. It seemed like they were pretty content to just drive me down - I could lose them pretty easily, but only at the cost of a few thousand feet in altitude (along with any chance of catching up to the same bomber formation again). But if I was stubborn and stuck it out, they made mincemeat out of me pretty quickly - once they start firing, you pretty much have to pull something high-G or you'll get hit hard.

So... not bad so far!

I haven't yet bought WOTR - still flying WOFFUE but I did see the picture of the Hurricane. It has the code UP which is 605 squadron which flew Hurricanes in the BoB. Strangely enough, UP can also be 222 squadron which flew Spitfires at the same time. Strange that the RAF used the same code twice at the same time.

Anyway, WOTR got it right with a Hurricane of 605 squadron. They flew from Hawkinge and Croydon in England and Drem in Scotland during the BoB.

Congrats on getting the release out OBD, will be visiting your store tomorrow. Looking forward to stooging around Southern England in a Hurricane.

Could not wait to try at on my desktop at home so I downloaded WOTR on my "under the requirements" laptop and fired the game just to see what's there , created a German pilot and ran a quasi slideshow free flight quick mission for it . Nice feel to be airborne, very nice cockpit with readable gauges etc etc but alredy 4 points puzzled me :

1/ could not choose in what unit to enlist ( never met that in WOFF) but maybe i did something wrong.

2/ same problem with ranks and unit structure than WOFF but more annoying for WW2 simulation IMO : no Gruppe- Staffel-Schwarm (and maybe Rotte) structure, just a big bag of pilots divided for the mission in two "Schwaerme". About the ranks, Flieger, Gefreiter Stabsgefreiter (did not know that this rank existed) should have remained on the ground with mechanics and administrative and security members of the Gruppe and should have been replaced by Unteroffizier, Feldwebel und Oberfeldwebel .

4/ quick mission starts in the air with the plane already in a uncontrolled dive and in external view, so the first ones ended in a crash before i could take control and recover because started at a too low alt.

3/ last but not least could not find any trace of the 109 leading edge slats that should deploy when a stall is about to occur but maybe it is because of the simplified selection for graphics ets I did to be able to run a mission .

Otherwise , tonight i 'll spend more time on my better fitted desktop.

CCIP, a very nice overview that agreed with what I have seen so far. The UI fits like a nice familiar glove if you have played WOFF. I think the skins that are there are very nicely done and the flak was definitely a nice surprise! Very effective at steering me in. There is still a bit of the weird cloud popping and slicing effect, maybe that can be improved with dx 11? Also, you can see the parachute effect at the end of the video I posted, if anyone is curious.

Imo, I'm amazed at how low the price is. Giving the track record that WOFF has, I'm super stoked about what is to come. Its gonna be an awesome journey and I'll be there supporting it all the way. This is just the beginning. Really, tell me of a single player experience as good as what OBD has given us. None I know of, and I've had 'em all since the early 90's. Thanks OBD for the fantastic ride!

Manual Enlist is there just like in WOFF. See the WOTR FAQ too.
Can't comment on ranks not my area.
Set joystick in the middle before launch.
Slats not modelled.

There's so much assumption about my position that I'm not even going to bother responding.

That being said, I bought on anyway. Looking forward to giving the sim a test drive.

Thanks Space_Ghost

Manual enlist of course.

Sorry if I misread you Space_Ghost! To be honest, I've just had that discussion a few times elsewhere, so I was definitely projecting things I'd read elsewhere, not anything you actually said. I think it's a useful conversation to have - but I definitely didn't mean to imply you said any of the points I was countering.

Now on to enjoy the game

Brilliant! bought and downloaded it last night... very happy to support the work you do Polovski! I loved my two hours with it last night! looking forward to how this pans out - I'm with you all the way!

I am hoping to see some advice here in the forum regarding how to fly the Hurricane well. I am going to need better skills and tactics to survive ... my lame 'hard-turning on a horizontal plane' sure isn't working well.

Ive read about pilots trying a tight climbing turn in Hurricanes vs BF109s. Ive yet to give it a try in game yet. Whatever you do, dont try to outdive Jerry.

There is also this document about a comparison done between the 109 and the Hurricane in May 1940 that supports the turning climb tactic.

Either way, it is a good read.

Buying it today. Hope the download works if not consider the coin a donation to OBD just love the Art Work and the Company support.

This is interesting because coming from WOFF, I am used to just barely keeping it together in the top of a power turning climb. To do it in a Hurricane and find out I still had enough energy left to do something was...refreshing...

Just flew 1st mission although with handicaps. CCIP has a accurate Overview ( Well done.) Things I couldnt fine the button to raise the Flaps so used auto pilot to correct. Also couldnt Open the Canopy ( Standard procedure in RAF open canopy during takeoffs and landings. I think? Heads up display is usable ,but seems overcrowded. ( wish for a button to turn it off ) 2 other minor things The camera work on the flight model doesnt seem as smooth as in WOFF UE looks more like the World of War game models. Lastly, The pilot seems too large for the A/c or the a/c is slighty out of scale ? ( The Hurri ) Anyway its a good useable game and happy to have it. However, WOFF UE is still the Jewel in OBD's Crown.

I think Cntr P toggels the cockpit open closed. Flap toggle is the F and V key.

Thanks Canuck also spotted the full list by Stache on a different thread. Re-flew the Hurricane using F-5 and F-3 for flight shots looks much better and more fluid. Flew the 109 and it looks more to scale and period correct, but found a fence so dont know how it handles in the air.
In any event, I am having fun Thanks again.

How did I miss this one?

Buying it today, rainy weekend here so will have a go.

Well said, CCIP, very well said. I bought the minute I rec'd the email because of what I've seen from OBD over the years. I know danged well I don't even have time to fly, and won't for a while, but I just wanted to give them a shot in the arm. They have a stellar team here, and they deserve support. There's a world of difference between a game and simulator, and these guys get it.

WOFF is hauntingly beautiful; WWII, I expect will have a different feel. But it might be a while before I can figure that out.

Sorry, but I can only agree with this guy. I have not been following WOTR development so maybe is explained elsewhere, but would have been nice to see a complete feature included, and planned to be included for the same price. Just my two cents, will wait to see how this new game explains itself and how it develops before deciding to buy or not.
Thanks and wish you really good luck with the project.

thanks stratos. Read the feature list please, a lot is explained and detailed there.

That's the main problem, where is that list?

Precisely.

It's here I believe on the store page. Store page

Hopefully the Devs can put the features in a sticky..and update accordingly in the future.

Good idea I'll put it in a sticky.

The feature list is clearly on the store page, where you would expect to find it. There are videos, and will be plenty of reviews too.

Thanks for the sticky, but I still think you guys provide only the info of what is included, for example, is the price for the Hurri and 109 only, or will the same price include flyable Spitfire and 110? etc. anyway, don't want to start a flame war, will pass on this and get back in few months.

We provide only the details of what is included. Isn't that the idea?

The price is for what is listed. If we go any lower there really is no point making sims.

You could try 303 Squadron recently released, You only get to fly the hurricane, no take off, no landing, no detailed cockpits, scripted missions and not a lot of joystick control, but ground crew/squadron interaction may be good and its being added to.

I would strongly object to a lower price, both from a corporate and personal level, gotta keep the lights on folks. More planes would be great, and of course they will be released in due course, it's just the OBD way. Those who are expecting a steam or console style release, can go play those games, and miss out on the wonderful, satisfying craft of an OBD product.

Guys, I don't think he's asking you to lower the price, believe he's asking about what is likely to be added into phase 1 and will that be included for those who buy phase 1 now. So when the BoB spitfire variants are added into the game, will they be included with his original purchase (as a free download) or will he have to buy those additionally at that time...

Thanks Rick. I understand what he said. As I say the features there are what is in it. That's what you get.
The amount of work to make 1 flyable detailed cockpit is too much to give it away in an update.We will certainly have to stop doing it if we make major content like that and add it with no more sales support for it. The only way to do that would be some kind of yearly subscription service like most companies seem to do these days.

We hope, as we have done with WOFF, that we will do updates that fix bugs, and sometimes also add features or options from time to time if support is there.

So, if I'm following, the plan is to charge for additional flyable planes, is that correct?

If so, what is the planned cost? Certainly if the plan has been to charge for additional planes, then there would already be some decision (or at least a ballpark) concerning the plane costs.

Just guessing that it maybe similar to WOFF releases according to theme with similar price model..

eg Fokker Scourge, Balance of Power, Skin pack, etc...

Good point, hadn't thought of that.

In any event, it would seem fair and reasonable to want some idea of the plan/pricing going forward, which is what I believe was being asked above. We can all speculate and/or take guesses/ask a lot of questions which may or may not be correct, but it would be much less difficult to have the information from the source.

My 2p,s worth..People asking about other aircraft or looking to buy when it's more fleshed out. Guys there WONT be other features IF phase 1 doesn't sell it won't get fleshed out either without revenue coming in. Would any development team carry on with their product if it wasn't selling?
Would 1cs be able to produce BOM,BOK etc if BOS sold poorly? I wouldn't have thought so.

I can't even begin to imagine the amount of time spent by Winder,Pol and Matt (his musical score) already on this sim and one thing you get with these guys is..love. They love their products ,their support is phenomenal they go the extra mile to help. They patch (if required) often ,I've been a customer from OFF p3 so I know what these guys are about. They'll work tirelessly around the clock to make their sim "better" honestly they are probably the best Devs (along with LGM) that I've ever seen.

I purchased a couple of pizzas and some wedges chicken strips etc last Tuesday for me the missus and the teenage kids..it cost £26. It's only cost a few more quid for this sim. Madness when I think about it.

I'm certainly not here to tell people you " should " purchase,that's entirely their call,is the sim perfect? No not yet,IMO am I having a blast? Absolutely I am,is the Ai possibly even in this early stage the best I've seen in a sim god yeah it's incredible. That alone Personnally is worth at least most of the asking price ,add in the flyable craft the music,the campaign system and its a no brainier for me..I've payed way more than this for AAA titles only to end up disappointed,either with none existent gameplay or really poor Ai ( that really ranks with me)

Flight sims (good ones) are such a niche product. Most of us have been crying out for a new SP WW2 flight sim with excellent Ai and a excellent campaign system,well we've got one,one that knowing OBD will get better and better but ..only with support. No support No extra phases. And it'd be such a bloody shame if this series couldn't go on to become THE pivotal WW2 SP sim

Anyway like I said all that's just my opinion,somethings only worth what you as a individual are willing to pay for. The current price of $34.99 or bout £28 over here in Blighty is cheaper than a meal out.

Regards Adger

Amen Brother!

Opinions about all of that will vary. Quite honestly, and with all due respect, if posting about all the positives is allowed, then to be completely fair there should be no problem allowing other opinions. But that isn't really what happens.

Regardless, in order to give proper consideration, and ultimately make an informed decision, it would seem crucial to have all the facts. Which is, again, what it seems has been asked for.

You'll get a heads up when expansions are in development, along with their suggested price. Companies traditionally don't give details on future products until they're ready to be announced.

So, you're saying that there were no plans concerning pricing of additional planes, even as the price was set for the initial release? Seems a little...unlikely, if nothing else.

Unfortunately, what happens "traditionally" has nothing to do with it. Just because something hasn't happened in the past doesn't keep it from ever happening.

EDIT: I should add that it seems clear at least some potential customers might want to know what can be expected, before making their decision about the initial release. Who's to say they're wrong?

Matt, your pretentious answers aren't helpful and leave me questioning my choice in supporting OBD and WOTR - nobody is attacking the product so you can lay off the defense mode and the "belittling the intelligence or sense of other users" thing you're trying to do.

Frankly, is there an option for a refund? I could certainly file a charge back through my card carrier but if there is a proper way I think I'd like to take it.

Yes, but it is only reasonable to expect what is practised, both by the company and the industry as a whole.
So you have to look to past products for the approach to release and expansion.

All we can offer is what there is, for the price it is set at, along with a general outline of future development plans.
There will be a full planeset, but until it can be decided on what goes into what expansion or update, we don't know what that will be. I can tell you, it will be in two weeks.

I wouldn't call it accurate to say that the industry as a whole never gives potential customers at least some idea concerning pricing and features in advance.

It doesn't seem unreasonable to me that a guy might want to know what a plane(s) he's interested in will cost, before he buys in to the initial release if it doesn't come with what he's interested in. Otherwise, he has no way of knowing what it's going to cost him to end up with a product that is what he wanted.

*Sigh*
How about we just take a deep breath. Noticed the sun still rose today.

I haven't seen other opinions not allowed kksnowbear. In all due respect I Personnally knew what I was getting in phase 1 it showed us on the store page and more recently in the features list that Pol has stickied. I knew I was paying $34.99 for exactly what was posted,I wasn't expecting extra flyable craft etc for the money..if the Devs throw a few in then brilliant if not then so be it. I expect ( like other games) that new craft,theatres DLC if some people want to call it that to come at a extra price. Patches yes and possibly new features to improve phase 1 I expect for "free" but new craft etc..Nahh theyve got to earn a living somehow

OBD are most certainly still working on improving the sim. Perhaps they don't know future pricing,future aircraft or features. Like I said WITHOUT support there won't be any. Maybe they need to start seeing sales before they commit to more phases. Only they know..everything else including my post is just an assumption

Things have not been finalised so we can't publish info

Is it reasonable to ask what is coming next and how much is it a few days after it comes out? Maybe
Is it reasonable to demand an answer or force us to release info we don't want to yet or don't have finalised? No.

Even if a company has all the future laid out (with 30 employees rather than 2) maybe they don't want competitors to know too early on what they are doing, maybe they have a few options they are mulling over - just give us some time please.

Some developers do not even communicate in forum - some large ones too but we try at least.

Pol, no one's trying to force you to do anything. Just a few questions, is all. Don't answer if you don't wish to, no problem - but others are entitled to their own ideas about it, too. And, realistically, they can choose to tie their support of this project to how they see things.

Adger, all I can say is it's not hard to see which opinions are welcomed, and which are not.

A. If theres no problem with OBD not answering about future plans yet, what is all the excitment about?

B. If people can choose to support or not support the WOTR project based on the devs lack of a public roadmap - and i firmly agree they can - they might also want to consider OFF didn't have a roadmap other than that OBD would release new phases as support allows (sound familiar?), and its still here 10 years later having been roundly claimed by numerous reviews as one of the best WWI flight sims of all time, having recieved numerous upgrades both in terms of free patch content updates and paid DLCs.

I'm okay without a specific roadmap because the developer trackrecord speaks for itself to me, but thats just me. You are entitled to feel differently. Check back from time to time and see if one has been given. Problem solved.

And that's your opinion kksnowbear,of which your perfectly entitled to. Pol,could have just let the queries go over his head a lot of Devs have Zero interaction with their customers. But he hasn't he's given answers and OBD will give us more answers in the coming weeks/months

Of course, and I have answered it. I can't give out info that isn't finalised internally, and that's reasonable I think. No point throwing guesses that people come back and pin down later.

As I say many devs don't even discuss anything.

One guess I can give you is I doubt any future flyable aircraft would cost more than the sim, it will cost less. When, how many aircraft we do, exactly how much I can't tell you.

IF we make enough to carry on we will do more, if not we won't. I can't promise anything yet.

If everyone wants to know the life cycle of the next products before they buy the current one then for sure there won't be any more additions. If we had dozens of employees yes we'd already be way ahead, and maybe have some more info, but we don't unfortunately.

Thanks Hellshade, every buyer of every product weighs up the things they need or don't need and buys or not, nothing we can do to change that, Nothing I will say here will change it either, but as you say it's not like we have no track record. People can look into it our past products, and see what usually happens. It's possible we may drop dead tomorrow but we intend to do what we can if support is there.

kknowsbear, Well as long as we are talking about opinions, IMHO asking for the plan/pricing going forward is not reasonable at this point in time, if ever.
OBD did not mention the flyable planes in WOTR release 1 nor its price until just before it was released.
Sure I would like to know also, but I can think of a lot of reasons why a developer would not want to discuss these items before they are close to having a finished product.
I know there are developers that do not talk about release pricing and offer scant on info future plans and/or release dates.
If you want to discuss opinions - perhaps a new thread should be started.

Sincerely,

Mike

If we were on steam then individual planes could be sold as dlc, as they are in several sims, and you could expect a set price for that (and announced during their individual beta stages).
Pol's already mentioned the battle of france, and we're excited about the potential of other areas of the war.
(I've already sketched out some preliminary themes for that eventuality)

But as pol says, until we finalize development we can't provide finalized details, and will only announce that when we're ready to.

You get a great list of features for a sim, including its single-player driven design, and a choice of starter planes, in the initial product.

I recently bought trainz 2019. I like the company's approach to development and design and so supported that, having switched to the dlc-heavy railworks for a few years.
There's no list of trains, no list of routes, and no fleshed out list of features, simply because they're still working on it.

I wish all involved the very best of luck with WOTR. I won't be investing at this point, because my system, particularly the GPU lacks the necessary heft even to match the minimum requirements. However, I do believe there exists a good opportunity. There is a considerable demand for a good single-player WWII sim with a dynamic campaign and good AI. Those who have improved their computer systems, involving a move up to Windows 8 and10 will find that BOB II, the best alternative, is no longer an option on these platforms, IL-2 1946 lacks the campaign element, CLOD is predominantly a multi-player game, BOX similarly possesses neither the AI nor the campaign quality. Therefore, for those with these requirements and with systems that can play it, WOTR offers unique qualities.

The long slog to the perfection of WOFF was TOTALLY WORTH IT....how many years was that? Hope I've the stamina to see WOTR do the same. Doesn't matter what the cost point is....it's a pttance for the effort involved in making it....and to expect WOTR to be as easily accessible as WOFF right off the bat is unreasonable. I for one am appalled at how vulnerable I am flying WOTR....used as I am to the relatively leisurly pace of WOFF combat. Easy to be discouraged.....I was...but let it grow....and every dollar you put in to development is money back for all the WOFF patches and money forward to all the WOTR patches. So keep the faith....this ain't instant gratification....we're part of a start up......and if the stock splits 18 times...like WOFF UE....we'll all be richer for the trip. Sounds a bit rah, rah I know but there it is. Cheers all...........

Fantastic start OBD,this sim is going places,it looks and feels fantastic even in this early stage.

I love the OBD team and played WOFF for years. I wish they released the European theater first though. There are other options for BOB sims, but no one has an ETO sim on the market. BOB is kind of been there, done that. I know there is a huge audience for Thunderbolts and Lightening (P38).


EDIT: I'm still buying to support the great OBD team!

Short vid of 32 Sqn:

Robert you are a star!
Soon I will have T for Trooper back

I am interested, but would like to know what are the minimum PC requirements to fly and enjoy this sim?
BadBud

With a min spec system you will not be able to run the simulation at its higher graphic settings.
To fly and enjoy - well that is relative to your likes.
IMHO - To Fly and enjoy you will need at least the Recommended System - Preferably something more.

From the FAQ Here http://www.wingsoverthereich.com/index_htm_files/WOTR-FAQ.pdf

Minimum System;
CPU: Intel 3.0 GHz CPU Speed or higher. NVidia Graphics card, 670 GTX or above or equivalent ATI/AMD
GPU. 1.5GB or more of GPU on the card is recommended. PC with WINDOWS 7 64 Bit, WINDOWS 8 or 8.1
64 Bit, or WINDOWS 10 64 bit. 6GB RAM or higher. Windows XP or 32bit operating systems are not
supported.
You need a PC Joystick. Direct X 9 must be installed. We recommend you close all possible background
tasks, AV scanners etc.
Read through the FAQ section 4 for more details on installing DirectX and elsewhere for other help.
Note: to run with a lower system specification, using lower graphic settings in Workshop – see section 13.


Recommended System;
Intel 3.6+GHz CPU or higher. Multi-core will only help speed slightly.
Nvidia 970 GTX or 1080 GPU or higher for best performance with more than 2GB VIDEO RAM. High
resolutions like 3440x1400 or 4K will likely require 1080 GTX or higher depending on system and settings.
Equivalent ATI graphics card with 2GB + RAM should be fine but not recommended.
Operating System: PC with WINDOWS 7 or 10 (64 Bit) are recommended. Windows 8, 8.1, 10 (all 64
Bit) are OK. Windows XP or 32bit operating systems are not supported.

Memory: 8GB PC RAM or higher.