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New theaters (development)

Posted By: xjouve

New theaters (development) - 03/26/20 05:52 PM

[19/05/2020 - UPDATED this post with links to threads dedicated to my mods]

For information regarding,



This thread is to share dev progress.






Posted By: Robert_Wiggins

Re: New theater: Questions of the DEV - 03/26/20 07:46 PM

xjove;

You should probably try to seek your answers through Polovski as he is our main interface for OBD. Hopefully he will see your thread and respond.

Best Regards
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater: Questions of the DEV - 03/27/20 07:16 AM

Thanks Robert! I'll send him a PM. smile
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 03/30/20 02:12 PM

Making progress.

I've succeeded today in producing fairly complex waterways for the area between Ypres and Nieuport. As some of you may know, in October 1914, to stop Germans in Belgium, the locks were open at Nieuport causing a first flood along the Yser river and above, down south to Dixmude. So, I'm trying to pay justice to this. I've used elevation data to simulate the flood, to get something as accurate as possible ingame (at the moment, I decided to go for not too much waterbeds).

Here are screenshots taken using original WOFF, exepting msh and hydro files. Well, it is not perfect, but given the complexity of the water network, my beginner level in QGIS software (used to merge layers), it is not bad for a first shot. Actually, hydro data consists in 2 types: water and shorelines. From what I'm obeserving here, the shorelines texture is not perfect to cross frontline areas as it uses green grass. I have to think about it.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

City of Nieuport where the flood came from. (Pretty well located ingame as it fits almost perfectly with hydro data.)

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

From the above screenshot: Nieuport on the north, Ypres on the south, and the location of the Spad, looking south.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: BuckeyeBob

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 03/30/20 02:17 PM

Very exciting stuff, xjouve!

Your flood tiles look very realistic. I look forward to your progress!
Posted By: Fullofit

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 03/30/20 02:28 PM

Lovely!
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 03/30/20 02:58 PM

Thanks guys. I've quickly generated again shoreline files, so that the texture is only used for coastlines. In other words, you don't see green grass next to rivers and waterbeds in no man's land. Not sure which solution is better.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
Posted By: RAF_Louvert

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 03/30/20 05:18 PM

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Fantastic xjouve, you've just made my day, possibly even my week! I've been wishing for a long, long time, (all the way back to OFF really), that someone with the understanding of these files could take on such a project and give us the lowlands as water-logged as they should be. When you're done with this project there are some rivers and lakes we could used as well. biggrin

Cheers!

Lou

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Posted By: JJJ65

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 03/30/20 06:06 PM

That looks very promising, xjouve! Good luck and great patience!
Posted By: VonS

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 03/30/20 06:26 PM

@ xjouve, superb terrain-modding, this is a very exciting development for WOFF - you sir are the "gTerl of WOFF terrains" (those who fly custom maps in FE2, especially the Austrian/Italian map, will get my reference smile ).

Happy flying all,
Von S
Posted By: Robert_Wiggins

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 03/30/20 11:54 PM

i wonder what impact the generated flooding will have on existing airfields. Will it put some out of business in campaigns? It may be time to think about fitting floats to our scouts!
Posted By: FurphyForum

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 03/31/20 02:46 AM

Thumbs up and success on this! aroundthetree
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 03/31/20 08:02 AM

Thanks everyone! Your encouragement is welcome.

@Robert: Actually, I haven't seen any aerodrome transformed into an aircraft carrier so far ^^
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 03/31/20 09:55 PM

I like the atmosphere

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
Posted By: AceMedic88

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/01/20 03:42 PM

Wow. The reflection in all the water completely transforms northern Flanders. Well done.
Posted By: Fullofit

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/01/20 03:47 PM

Not to mention more landmarks to navigate by. Hope you can do this magic to all major waterways all the way down to Alsace.
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/02/20 12:25 PM

Thanks guys.

Originally Posted by Fullofit
Not to mention more landmarks to navigate by. Hope you can do this magic to all major waterways all the way down to Alsace.


Sure; landmarks! You have said it all! Following rivers, and spotting villages underneath, which is also what I want to integrate.

What I'm doing here for the Ypres' area is a first step to acquire knowledge and to set up methods and material to quickly replicate for other areas. From what I see, it is not rocket science. The only thing I'm afraid of, is limitation of what can be done, and what cannot. However, for such an old game engine, CFS3 is remarkable.

Ok, so I'm trying to get cities and villages to be very precisely located ingame. Same story for the frontline.

Let's see this. Inserting new elements of water into the game, produces some orphan designs: if you look at the following screenshot, the addition of watershapes logically introduced Ypres' moats (black circle). Indeed, the medieval city of Ypres is surrounded by moats. However, in WOFF Ypres is located way too south and is oversized. In order words, the beautiful moats were orphans when I first integrated watershapes into the game. What you see here consisted in fields only.

You can also see the Zillebeke lake where the frontline was (yellow circle) ; and Zillebeke in blue, not to mention Ypres and Hollebeke as a result of LCF modifications.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

As I just said, to achieve this, I've worked again on the LCF file. First of all, I made the routine of converting TIFF palette image to LCF to be compatible with Copernicus' CORINE Land Cover. CFS3 palette is not bad per se, it is 'limited' but can be enough for our needs, but the main problem is that it is not a commonly used palette as those in widely available data on land covering.

So now, the conversion of TIFF to LCF supports many more colors. As for now, it is not really enriching the outcomes but each CORINE RGB code gets its corresponding CFS3 id.

Here's the CORINE data for Ypres' area (for which I've added my own RGB code for the frontline).

[Linked Image]

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to used it as a full replacement of the CFS3's (or WOFF's). So I had to insert it into the orignal game's file. Clearly not the ideal solution; but to my surprise the ingame result is not too bad actually. This file is telling CFS3 engine, pixel by pixel, which landclass is to be used there and there.

[Linked Image]

From what I can see ingame:

  • Villages like Zillebeke and Hollebeke are oversized: what can be done? (1) reducing their shape into the LCF, (2) changing the landclass assignement from medium cities to small cities or (3) creating new textures. Quick answers: (1) no, not enough room for reducing more; (2) yes, for a try but it will impact larger urban areas as well, (3) yes, but I do need a texture designer.
  • Cities like Ypres which are linked to watershapes might benefit from specific design. Texture designer needed here. lol
  • Frontline must be enlarged. However, this might be a possibility of changes during the war.
  • Actual Ypres layer is located a bit too north and might benefit to be relocated couple of pixels down on the LCF file



Posted By: RAF_Louvert

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/02/20 02:39 PM

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Wonderful stuff going on here Xav, outstanding really. The problem with the location of the cities in CFS3 has been known since shortly after its creation. It's almost as if someone harnessed the principle of generating small amounts of finite improbability, no doubt by hooking the logic circuits of a Bambleweeny 57 Sub-Meson Brain to an atomic vector plotter suspended in a strong Brownian Motion producer (likely a nice hot cup of tea in this case), and used the cobbled generator to make all the cities in the CFS3 landscape leap simultaneously three miles to the east, in accordance with the theory of indeterminacy. As to their scale being off, well, that's another issue altogether.

Now to having new textures designed, the problem you are going to have there is this: If you are wanting to create more accurate landscape features such as notable cities, well-known woods and forests, old fortifications, and the like, you will need to have custom texture tiles for each of them and the corresponding facility files and global layer changes to match. I have discovered this myself with some of my own small landscape mods, such as Havrincourt Wood, the Lille Citadel, and most recently the little town of Mont St. Eloi. The only way I've found to place these into the CFS3/OFF/WOFF landscape requires the creation of a lot of new files and textures, and while the end result is worth it the time it takes is a bit staggering. As example, Old Mossy Face required eleven landscape tiles to create, and each of those eleven then had to have the different season tiles created for it along with the changing front lines textures as well. A very large undertaking, in particular when it was just little old me having to do it all. Again, not saying it isn't worth it, it's just that you should know the scale of such projects before beginning them.

Food for thought.

Lou

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

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Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/02/20 03:14 PM

Hi Lou,

You did a great job. I saw what you've done, this is amazing. smile I think that a major part of the lanscape can be reproduced; however to achieve even more precision, it is no doubt that texture work, just like you did, would be required.

I've just succeeded in using a 4x larger LCF file. The precision is now way better. I've also put the Ypres layer over the CFS3 layer but using Global Mapper and coordinates (not only Photoshop like I did before). I then realized that the original CFS3 theater is about 4km too far on the north.

Have a look, on the left side of this screenshot you can see the village of Merkem (from the LCF) located on the Blankaart lake (from geo data).

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

I'm gonna try to enlarge the LCF even more.
Posted By: RAF_Louvert

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/02/20 03:31 PM

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Thanks Xav, nice to know you're a fan of my work.

I find it amazing that such accurate landscape detail is actually achievable in the old CFS3 engine, good on you for sorting this out. As for the misplacement of the cities, it does not seem consistent over the entire Western Front. In some places the cities are too far north, while in other places they seem too far east. I've wondered over the years if somehow, when the cities were originally mapped to the rest of the CFS3 world, the template or whatever is used to do it, got stretched or distorted somehow. I don't know of course, it's only an observation from years of flying over the terrain in CFS3/OFF/WOFF.

I am wondering, with your project here, what kind of FPS and/or performance issue this might have on our flying set-ups. Any ideas there?

Cheers,

Lou

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Posted By: Polovski

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/02/20 05:10 PM

Yes the original CFS3 landscape is distorted, putting an object in to the real life Lon/Lat will not match up in CFS3. i.e. it's a known error and it gets worse as you get to the edges.
Posted By: RAF_Louvert

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/02/20 05:31 PM

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Thanks for that confirmation Pol, much appreciated. I was hoping you or one of the other WOFF devs/experts would weigh in on this. I seem to remember this now that you say it, from way back when I was doing the maps.

Cheers,

Lou

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Posted By: Robert_Wiggins

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/02/20 07:49 PM

Patiently listening... popcorn
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/02/20 07:49 PM

Thanks Pol. Indeed, I think that you guys with experience on CFS3 original theater have seen that. In fact, the way the theater is sized, is a bit weird TBH. I'll describe this later. smile

I've increased the LCF file up to 8x, which is I think the max possible (above that, tiff2lcf can't read the input). I've also moved Ypres' layer to the south, quite precisely knowing how much meters, theoretically, a pixel equals to.

And then, welcome to Ypres salient!

[Linked Image]

There's room for improvement; but it's not too bad actually. smile
Posted By: JJJ65

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/02/20 07:59 PM

thumbsup
Posted By: BuckeyeBob

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/02/20 08:47 PM

Nice! If you can figure out how to deal with the CFS3 map distortion, you will receive immediate entry into the WOFF modders Hall of Fame!

(As well as immediate entry into the BWOC, if you haven't made it already)!
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/02/20 09:36 PM

Last one for today. Langemark and Houthulst Forest; notice that I'm trying to get a better transition to the frontline

[Linked Image]
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/03/20 01:01 PM

A little example of CFS3 terrain flows.

I choose the Dover - Calais area to illustrate the situation.

Layer 1: SRTM30 elevation data

[Linked Image]

Layer 2: OpenStreetMap

[Linked Image]

Layer 3: CFS3 Map converted to GeoTIFF (actual original theater coordinates) with 40% translucency shower

[Linked Image]

Layer 4: CFS3 LCF converted to GeoTIFF (actual original theater coordinates) with 40% translucency popcorn

[Linked Image]

I could have shown it better but I can confirm that CFS3 LCF is pretty good at matching SRTM/OSM data. Not perfect, but okay.

However, I'm letting you guys judging CFS3 map accuracy.

And the worst part, look now at CFS3 Map over CFS3 LCF... It looks like the map has been stretched north west (controlling myself not to be impolite... screwy )

[Linked Image]
Posted By: RAF_Louvert

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/03/20 01:27 PM

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Xav, what I can judge from your above illustrations is that I don't really have a clue about any of it. HTH. biggrin

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Posted By: Robert_Wiggins

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/03/20 01:53 PM

Yes Lou All this is pretty much over my head as well but there is no denying, that based on the last overlay image, the CFS3 LCF is not as stretched if at all for the area shown.
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/03/20 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by Robert_Wiggins
based on the last overlay image, the CFS3 LCF is not as stretched if at all for the area shown.


That's right. I really don't understand why TBH. I hope it is not a kind of technique to make it working with something buggy, which is not viewable from the angle of the user...

Anyway, I've suceeded in using a 2x bigger map_background.dds for the entire theater. It seems to work... But I've to be really honest, I can't say it for sure as all my previous attempts failed. Therefore, more testing is needed.

[Linked Image]

I can follow the Yser river quite well, and I eventually flew over Ypres (missing label), Courtai, Roulers, Staden, Dixmude, and it looks good.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Robert_Wiggins

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/03/20 04:54 PM

It may just be me but if the infight map could be as clear as your map that would be fantastic xjove.
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/03/20 05:11 PM

Robert,

Do you mean the map in the first post?
Posted By: RAF_Louvert

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/03/20 05:12 PM

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It's not just you, Robert. For those that use the in-flight map that would be marvelous.

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Posted By: Robert_Wiggins

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/03/20 05:37 PM

Lou, I wish we could have used yours for that. You spent considerable time generating them and they are very good.
Xjove may be able to help in this matter.

Xjove I am speaking of replacing the current WOFF in flight map with yours or Lou's if possible. I am assuming you have flown WOFF and used the "M" key to display the in flight map.
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/03/20 05:53 PM

This is ingame. I can do something like this for the whole front line. It needs a bit of cleaning BTW. And adjustments to fit with front line moves.

It comes from 100+ years old maps designed by the French Army.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Becker01

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/03/20 06:44 PM

I can say I'm satisfied with the historical WW1-World of WOFF. Towns, river, historical Topographie, … . It's not perfect but good in my opinion.
And I haven't believed, that an significant improvement is possible with the (old) cfs3-engine.
I will follow this very interesting work!
Posted By: Shredward

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/03/20 10:37 PM

The Royal Flying Corps, and for that matter, much of the BEF, went to war in 1914 with Michelin road maps
Cheers
Shredward
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/04/20 07:40 AM

Hi Shredward,

I didn't know that. Are you sure that you are not referring to Etat Major's maps rather than Michelin's? As per my knowledge the Michelin's came into interest after the war when the brand issued their famous guides of battlefields.

The Cartes d'Etat Major used by the army were not old by the time the war started. The Army has asked for a revision of the 1820-1886 versions and that came into production in 1912.

You can see snapshots there in their Plans Directeurs version (artillery maps): https://sourcesdelagrandeguerre.fr/?p=4037
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/04/20 11:55 AM

I've managed to get 2 map_background.dds for the full front line.

It takes the 1:1000000 Schwartz version for January 1915 as a base layer. I've cleaned it (remove the yellowish paper, etc.) and try to get the most accurate positioning over the real geolocations, without distorting it too much (the maps came from 2 scans that are not good). It is not perfect, however, I think that we don't necessarily need more accuracy there, as it could be seen as having been done by hand, and thus unperfectly.

1) Color version

[Linked Image]

2) Black & White version

[Linked Image]

The most historically accurate version is the B&W as colorful maps were very unlikely to be used during the war.
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/04/20 12:40 PM

Now ingame with the B&W version.

It looks pretty good actually. I'm very happy with it. It doesn't look too badly located all along the front line. I may try to distort just a bit the historical layer as I feel concern by what I see here in the Marne region. Not a big deal BTW.

Flanders

[Linked Image]

Marne

[Linked Image]

Vosges/Alsace

[Linked Image]

Posted By: RAF_Louvert

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/04/20 01:04 PM

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Originally Posted by xjouve
The most historically accurate version is the B&W as colorful maps were very unlikely to be used during the war.


Not so Xav. You need only go to the following, McMaster WWI Map Library , to see the trench maps used by the British during the war. I am in fact looking at the original 1916 Hazebrouck map I have on my wall here and it is very colourful. I used the palette from that map when I was creating my set of OFF/WOFF maps so that they would have the correct look about them. smile2

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Posted By: BuckeyeBob

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/04/20 01:37 PM

Personally, I favor the coloured map, since it appears slightly easier for my poor eyes to read.

However, either one is a vast improvement over the default in-game map!
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/04/20 02:15 PM

I'm gonna make both available: with and without frontline.

At the moment, I'm trying to get even more precise maps.
Posted By: BuckeyeBob

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/04/20 02:21 PM

Great news, really appreciate your efforts.
Posted By: Trooper117

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/04/20 02:24 PM

Another 'must have' coming up I think... good work!
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/04/20 04:34 PM

I tried a way bigger map with lots of details, by it shows poorly ingame (not to say that the loading time of CFS3 engine is okay, but can be boring...).

Nevertheless, the main problem is that the labels are then hard to decifer, so I guess that I can mix 2 different resolutions of maps: one big resolution to display nice terrain shapes/lines and another, smaller, to display labels.
Posted By: orbyxP

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/04/20 04:38 PM

I think main thing for me would be rivers, bodies of water, forests, roads and railway tracks to show up clearly. I don't really use anything else on the in game map. Maybe if you can make all that writing translucent as well as the ground terrain, it would be more clear. Just a thought.

oh, and I forgot that I also use major cities as guides, too.
Posted By: Becker01

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/04/20 06:37 PM

Yes, I agree with @orbyxP. Important is all what you need for view-flight navigation in WOFF.
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/04/20 07:30 PM

Do you guys like this version?

[Linked Image]
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/04/20 07:56 PM

And ingame.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/04/20 08:22 PM

For those who want to try; here are 2 versions, one with frontline and one without. The one you'll choose needs to be placed in \WOFF\OBDWW1 Over Flanders Fields folder to replace map_background.dds (make a backup of it first!!)

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1sEeR6dsjLUgkwQCYAgHXPKdmi9SRYyu4
Posted By: RAF_Louvert

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/04/20 09:52 PM

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Xav, I applaud your efforts with the in-sim map, however using real world maps make actual navigation considerably harder as they don't match up with what you see in the sim itself. This was the motivation for me to do a full photo recce of the entire OFF/WOFF front about five years ago and from those countless photos construct accurate maps of the actual in-sim roads, railways, rivers, forests, cities, etc. If you've not seen those maps they can be found here: Users Mods Page - Maps

Thanks again for all your time and talents on working to improve our much beloved sim.

Cheers,

Lou

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Posted By: Robert_Wiggins

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/04/20 10:44 PM

Lou you point is quite valid but may not be if xav can change the landclass making the cities etc line up for sim flight. At that point his in sim popup flight map could made to match it.

What do you think?
Posted By: RAF_Louvert

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/04/20 11:03 PM

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Robert, that would be great, but you'll still have the issue of the in-sim highways and railways not being shown, and those are some pretty darned valuable navigation aids to have.

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Posted By: Robert_Wiggins

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/04/20 11:07 PM

Originally Posted by RAF_Louvert
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Robert, that would be great, but you'll still have the issue of the in-sim highways and railways not being shown, and those are some pretty darned valuable navigation aids to have.

.

I hear you on that point and I for one would not look forward to those features being altwred to match the map given the hours we both spent relocating airfields in the past....
Posted By: RAF_Louvert

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/04/20 11:23 PM

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That's why I have noted several times in the past that the only adjustment that should be made is to relocate the major cities to where they belong, everything else should be left as is otherwise you will be moving a whole lot of things that really don't need to be moved. That being said, if Xav can also give us accurately placed rivers and lakes and flooding that would be the icing on the cake.

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Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/05/20 09:11 AM

You guys did a great job. smile Also, I second you regarding the very limited interest of using an ingame map, which does not display what one's would expect to see.

What I want to do is quite simple, simply speaking; creating a map is not the objective but only a step: aim is to integrate real world topological elements ingame. I did it for northern Flanders, even adding flooding, and to my happy surprise, it works fairly well. Therefore, a map showing real world is required. Not really for sharing like putting it into production, but more precisly to continue working on terrain works as I found myself stuck by being a bit blind when testing ingame changes.

Initially I thought about creating a dedicated map for each new sub-theater (northern Flanders is the first one), but finally, as I found out how to use a bigger map, then it became possible to carry on a work on the full front line with only one map. Which is good for the moment. Maybe later I'll come back to the problem I got when trying to use a map per sub-theater. But at this point, I'm happy with that. smile
Posted By: FurphyForum

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/06/20 03:31 AM

Originally Posted by xjouve
For those who want to try; here are 2 versions, one with frontline and one without. The one you'll choose needs to be placed in \WOFF\OBDWW1 Over Flanders Fields folder to replace map_background.dds (make a backup of it first!!)

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1sEeR6dsjLUgkwQCYAgHXPKdmi9SRYyu4


Thanks xjouve! I've tried both of your versions and BOTH are great. For me it's that with the old map I had trouble seeing the Green icon silhouete of your plane when it was over the green wooded area on the in-game map. With these I can now see my plane's icon.

Thanks.
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/06/20 07:27 AM

Thanks! Greatly appreciated. smile
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/06/20 09:38 PM

I've worked on the LCF file again today. Well, I think that one good LCF can be used for the whole theater (actual one) and any other sub-theater.

The orignal one is really off. Therefore, I decided to start over from a new one.

Here's the original one

[Linked Image]

Here's the CORINE's, which is now compatible with CFS3. But it's overkill. Too much variations. It would be great, but we don't have enough textures to take full potential.

[Linked Image]

And the a 2GIS map that I'm using as a palette. I've made tiff2lcf (the CFS3 landclass converter) to be compatible with it. 5 colors palette: water, forest, fields, urban and industrial. The result is acceptable. (sorry with this resolution, it is not possible to see the differences in colors)

[Linked Image]

And now ingame.

Ypres and Zillebecke on the right.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Ypres. Not perfect, but okay considering that our precision is limited.

[Linked Image]

Houthulst forest on the left, with Madonna village (yeah, not the singer lol). Langemark, Poelkapelle and Westrozebeke from bottom to top in the middle; and I think, Zonnebecke on the right.

[Linked Image]

P.S. Notice that I changed the frontline layout for something that I think is closer to reality.
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/07/20 09:17 AM

I'm currently working on the flooding which ended the Yser battle in 1914.

My first version was made out of elevation data only. It proved to be okay but obviously incomplete. So today I've made more calculations to add rivers in the process.

1) I started by sticking a map of the Yser battle to an actual OSM, using geolocalisation of cities and villages. That's why you can notice that the map is stretched. Well, this is not the best map ever, certainly not accurate as a standalone document, but it is sufficient here as the computer will simulate the flooding based on rivers, water flow and elevation data for a level of accuracy that would have been difficult to reach by the time of the war without great deal of observation from the sky and days of work.

[Linked Image]

2) I downloaded 1 arc-second resolution elevation data for the area designated by the map to have been flooded

[Linked Image]

3) I added rivers and water bodies for this area and started to calculate watersheds for a 4 feet flood (I eventually read that the flooding was 3 to 4 feet)

[Linked Image]

4) Here's the result in pink. It matches fairly well with the old drawing of the map. I do believe that we have here a fair display of what the flooding has been. To my knowledge, this representation has not been done before (at least, I haven't been able to find such document).

[Linked Image]

Now I'll add this ingame. smile

Posted By: Dirk98

Re: New theater: Questions for the DEV - 04/07/20 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by RAF_Louvert
.

Xav, I applaud your efforts with the in-sim map, however using real world maps make actual navigation considerably harder as they don't match up with what you see in the sim itself. This was the motivation for me to do a full photo recce of the entire OFF/WOFF front about five years ago and from those countless photos construct accurate maps of the actual in-sim roads, railways, rivers, forests, cities, etc. If you've not seen those maps they can be found here: Users Mods Page - Maps

Thanks again for all your time and talents on working to improve our much beloved sim.

Cheers,

Lou

.



Thanks to your huge work on the maps, Lou, and work on the Mission Editor by JJJ65, I personally never use an in-game map in 3D anymore. Right before each campaign flight after a briefing I launch Mission Editor on my main PC and one of your corresponding maps on my second screen/PC. I then draw flight vectors on your map from what I see on the ME map (adobe acrobat or any other editor can be helpful). Then I close ME and launch a flight. Now I can realistically navigate with the in-game compass and with what I see in 3D comparing it to the flight path I drew on your map. No need for GPS so this adds that critical navigation immersion layer that was always missing for me in WoFF before your maps and ME. Now I wish I could do the same in the briefing map even without opening the ME.

Cheers.
Posted By: RAF_Louvert

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/07/20 01:59 PM

.

Dirk, glad to know you are enjoying those maps and making good use of them. They were a labor of love. smile2

Xav, you are definitely making progress, well done. Now when you say we don't have enough textures to make full use of all the variations in the CORINE's version, how many additional texture variation sets would be required and what would they be? Just curious.

.
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/07/20 04:21 PM

Hi Lou,

I should have provided the forum with the palette ID and labels. My bad.

Here is the palette. You'll find original CFS3 categories in red. These are the most important ones as each ID corresponds to an existing texture set. To make CFS3's tiff2lcf converter compatible with both CORINE and 2GIS, I added their reference colors (RVB.. RGB in english) by linking each one to the ID number of the closest CFS3 category (I may have made mistakes BTW). Therefore, because CORINE has more classes than CFS3, then you'll find sometimes several CORINE's glued to a single CFS3's.

Examples:

1) I linked CORINE's Glaciers class to CFS3's Ice by giving ID number 1 to color 166,230,204
2) I linked CORINE's Discontinuous urban fabric class to CFS3's Medium city by giving ID number 34 to color 255,0,0

And so on.

[Linked Image]

Regarding the lack of textures, speaking of northern flanders, for instance it might be good to have nice Beach, dunes and sand textures, and Port areas textures. We would then assign them new ID numbers.
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/08/20 08:09 PM

Here's the water shapefile for the northern flanders (red circle is Ypres) theater. It is a very complex one. I'm getting hard times making it usable ingame. The water.exe, the application that creates hyp cell files for CFS3 crashes while trying to convert it. It reaches its limits.

[Linked Image]

However, at the moment, it works for the south part of the area. Hopefully, improvement will be possible.

Screenshots now.

The Lys river crossing the frontline (#%&*$# dark shadows appeared when I came back to the game as I saved the screenshot with the map first.. wierd)

What you see underneath the Spad is Nieppe, and next to the lake, you can see Armentières (the LCF might be relocated north slightly, but it fits quite well)

[Linked Image]

Location on the map.

[Linked Image]

A stream

[Linked Image]

Courtrai in the upper right

[Linked Image]
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/08/20 08:57 PM

I get it to work for the entire area. But it kills FPS. I have to work a bit more on it. But improvement is clearly possible!

But well, wait, can you see where The Citadel of Lille should be? ahoy

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
Posted By: RAF_Louvert

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/08/20 09:24 PM

.

Xav, I'd be curious to know what sort of FPS hit you would get if you had the wonderful new rivers, lakes, waterways, and flooding, but left the stock WOFF urban areas as they currently are in the sim. I don't know about others here but given the choice I'd love to have the new water even if nothing else changed.

.
Posted By: VonS

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/08/20 11:38 PM

Originally Posted by xjouve

A stream

[Linked Image]



This made my day - what a beauty. And I agree with Lou - even the addition of the extra water, without any other changes, would be excellent. I do hope to see some of these lovely, small streams included - then the 'drome could go fishing and bathing between flights.

Von S smile
Posted By: JJJ65

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/09/20 05:25 AM

Yes, that new water looks very well - more natural and real.
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/09/20 08:40 AM

Thanks!

Originally Posted by RAF_Louvert
.

Xav, I'd be curious to know what sort of FPS hit you would get if you had the wonderful new rivers, lakes, waterways, and flooding, but left the stock WOFF urban areas as they currently are in the sim. I don't know about others here but given the choice I'd love to have the new water even if nothing else changed.

.


  • Regarding FPS, as I'm using a workstation and not a proper gaming machine, it might not be relevant. LCF (urban areas and other classes) aren't that performance consuming from what I see. Actually, the flooding is the main problem. CFS3 algorithm to create hydro files is getting lost when there are many nested polygons (shapes into shapes), and this is exactly what a flooding is producing: parts of fields surrounded by water, among other parts of fields surrounded by water, etc. I'm exploring some strategies to get rid of this. However, if it is too complicated, then I'll simply use my first version of the flooding, which works well, but, which is less historically accurate. Anyway, one has to be a real expert in hydrology to see that it doesn't perfectly displaying a real flooding.
  • Regarding the use of the hydro files, it is totally disconnected than terrain classes. In other words, one would be able to use rivers with actual WOFF terrain classes and map. smile






Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/09/20 03:52 PM

It sounds like I won't be able to use the accurate flooding ingame, without a recoding of CFS3 processes.

So, I've just updated my first version based only on elevation data, and tried ingame with what I would call a medium density version. However, in comparison with the first version, this one includes much more shapes.

I think that it looks okay and I'll now try to add it to the main water shapefile along with rivers and other waterbeds.

What do you think of it?

[Linked Image]
Posted By: VonS

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/09/20 04:56 PM

@xjouve,

I think it looks superb - to me the flooding on the pic. in your post above still looks very realistic (I'm no expert in hydrology). Also very pleased that extra rivers, rivulets, streams and streamulets, etc., will be able to be included in WOFF without too much hassle. I am eagerly following these developments.

Von S smile
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/10/20 07:33 AM

Thank you very much!

Succeeded! I can't tell how happy I am; both the rivers and flooding finally merged. It was really hard to get it done.

Yser River, looking East over occupied territory

[Linked Image]

Nieuport on the north, the gate to the sea

[Linked Image]

PS: off topic, the water looks a bit bluish when subjected to reflexions IMHO, isn't?
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/10/20 10:53 AM

And now I added shorelines. Very few are missing there and there, but IMHO it doesn't matter.

From south to north

Armentières

[Linked Image]

Ypres

[Linked Image]

Dixmude

[Linked Image]

Nieuport

[Linked Image]

I'm not a big fan of the shorelines texture TBH. However, I must admit that it adds volume. Is there a mod for this texture available? Maybe that would be the solution.
Posted By: AceMedic88

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/10/20 02:06 PM

This is some amazing work. xjouve.
Posted By: Adger

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/10/20 03:23 PM

Supurb Xjouve,absolutely superb pal.
Posted By: VonS

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/10/20 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by xjouve


I'm not a big fan of the shorelines texture TBH. However, I must admit that it adds volume. Is there a mod for this texture available? Maybe that would be the solution.


There is indeed a "foam reduction" mod. for the shorelines - somewhere, out there...I think on Sandbagger's mod. site - I remember downloading the mod. (it worked with the Ultimate Ed. of WOFF; possibly compatible with the Platinum Ed. too...) - but I can't find the link to it now (have tried several searches to find it...it's possible that the mod. is included in a larger package...maybe one of the effects packages...). I'm sure someone will remember where the link is.

(As an aside, I don't mind the bluish reflection of the water - and congratulations on being able to fuse the flooding and rivers.)

Von S smile
Posted By: BuckeyeBob

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/10/20 05:04 PM

I think you are referring to Olham's river mod. Perhaps that can be adopted to lakes as well.

Bloody good work, xjouve!
Posted By: VonS

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/10/20 05:26 PM

Found it, the reduced foam and darkened shorelines are located in ver. 1.05 of this effects package by "4L0M":

https://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4340289/re-4l0m-new-effects-for-ue#Post4340289

Also worth a look is ver. 2.0 of that package too:

https://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4341557/re-4l0m-new-effects-for-ue#Post4341557

As indicated in my previous post - these are "technically" only compatible with WOFF UE, but some of the effects (such as thinner shorelines) may work okay in PE - providing you can find/extract the effect you are looking for xjouve.

@BB, entirely possible that xjouve was maybe thinking of Olham's river mod. instead - in that case simply disregard my couple of posts xjouve. biggrin

Von S
Posted By: BuckeyeBob

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/10/20 05:31 PM

No, I think you are correct. However, maybe xjouve can get some good ideas from both!
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/10/20 11:17 PM

Thank you guys! Greatly appreciated. smile

Originally Posted by VonS
Found it, the reduced foam and darkened shorelines are located in ver. 1.05 of this effects package by "4L0M":

https://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4340289/re-4l0m-new-effects-for-ue#Post4340289

Also worth a look is ver. 2.0 of that package too:

https://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4341557/re-4l0m-new-effects-for-ue#Post4341557

As indicated in my previous post - these are "technically" only compatible with WOFF UE, but some of the effects (such as thinner shorelines) may work okay in PE - providing you can find/extract the effect you are looking for xjouve.

@BB, entirely possible that xjouve was maybe thinking of Olham's river mod. instead - in that case simply disregard my couple of posts xjouve. biggrin

Von S



OMG I didn't know these. Downloading! It seems really interesting. band

A last pic for today. I changed a little bit the color contrast range.

Chasing over northern Flanders.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/11/20 08:45 AM

Unfortunately, I tried 4L0M's textures and with no disrespect at all for its author, the shorelines look like way too shiny to me.

I'm gonna look at what I can do. IMHO a first thing to do would be to decrease their color intensity to make them almost invisible, but still there to add that little 3D aspect. It might not be that difficult.

It seems me that shorelines are not made of clear color, but most likely of dark color. Perhaps the trick is here.

Here's Ypres from 4.5k m high.

[Linked Image]

Posted By: RAF_Louvert

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/11/20 01:33 PM

.

Xav, I agree completely about the shorelines, they should be much much less stand-out than they are currently. Your work is looking outstanding, can't wait to see the final version.

.
Posted By: Becker01

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/11/20 04:05 PM

@xyouve

I follow with interest your work.

IMHO the more intensive colour contrast range in the picture next to last is too high.

It is an occasion for me to recommend you don't try / do too much at once.
A more real water-landscape with transfer into the inflight-map and that for the whole frontline will be absolut enough work, I'm sure.

P.S.: It's only a tipp, not more.
Posted By: BuckeyeBob

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/11/20 04:24 PM

Ideally, a variety of shorelines would be nice, although I know that would involve at least twice the effort.

In general, I like the darker, or less cluttered shorelines that are shown in the above pic, but not every lake and pond are the same! Some will have relatively clear shorelines, while others may be cluttered with a bit of flotsam and jetsam, not to mention cattails and lily pads!

Regardless of what you come up with, xjouve, I'm sure it will be very nice. Thanks for your efforts.
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/11/20 04:32 PM

Thanks guys!

Originally Posted by Becker01


It is an occasion for me to recommend you don't try / do too much at once.



You are right indeed. However, a more realistic shoreline texture is, I'm afraid, a key to achieve a clean work with shorelines activated.

IMHO, at the moment water rendering ingame is better without CFS3 shorelines texture. It may be okay for a river or two somewhere, but when you have watershapes everywhere, that becomes borderline ugly. I agree with Lou that they should be much less stand-out than they are currently.

That being said, BuckeyeBob is right about the variety of shorelines that exist. Unfortunately, there is only one texture for all shorelines in CFS3 and I believe in WOFF as well.


Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/11/20 04:40 PM

I started, and I think nearly finished, the water shapefile for the Somme area.

A bit tricky, but I'm faster now at finding what to do. The Somme River is beautiful, but it is not a straight line to say the least.

[Linked Image]

Close-up on one part of the Somme waterbed (in the center of the above screenshot).

[Linked Image]
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/11/20 09:04 PM

The very first screenshots from the Somme River Theater.

The Avre River going west from the city of Roye

[Linked Image]

Ok, look carefully, don't you see something weird? duh

[Linked Image]

Péronne on the north east

[Linked Image]

The Somme River from Morlancourt

[Linked Image]

The above location on Google Earth.

[Linked Image]

Well, I'm sure that you saw what I meant by something weird. wink Woods and rivers don't fit well.

So, we know that all waterbeds are correctly located (if Microsoft processes are OK; but I trust them). Therefore, the LCF (landclass) is not. I placed the LCF manually, mostly guessing as there's no apparent rule or existing application to do it, and we know that LCF and map (CFS3's; not mine ^^) are both stretched in CFS3.

This leads me to think that:

  • 1) I missed the rule to place it (but the localization is good for northern Flanders...); or
  • 2) The LCF needs to be readjusted a bit for each part of the frontline (which is not a big deal afterall)


Anyway, the result is very good for a first shot and less than a day work.

Posted By: Robert_Wiggins

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/11/20 09:20 PM

Did anyone notice that Xjove's albatros is missing a wheel!! He must have been playing in the water again!! biggrin
Posted By: Fullofit

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/11/20 10:12 PM

Xjouve, that is fantastic work and I'd love to see these waterways replace the painted on rivers. Have you thought what would happen to the bridges if your mod replaces the texture tiles? Would all bridges need to be relocated / made new to span wider shores?
Also, I think the shoreline texture is the same as for the Channel, so if you make it work for the rivers it may look wrong for the seashore. Just wondering as I'm not 100% sure if what I'm saying is correct.
Posted By: OvStachel

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/12/20 02:13 AM

Looks really good so far. Is it possible to just have treed areas all around the river, that would seem more realistic rather than it being just water painted over landclasses like farms and such,

Coming along great though!
Posted By: orbyxP

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/12/20 02:53 AM

very nice progress. are you able to make the rivers and sea at lower level than the land. maybe adding river banks or elevating the land a bit will give it more dimension. especially, when light/shadow reflects off the angled surfaces.
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/12/20 08:35 AM

Thanks guys. smile

Originally Posted by Robert_Wiggins
Did anyone notice that Xjove's albatros is missing a wheel!! He must have been playing in the water again!! biggrin


It took a bath at the end ^^

Originally Posted by Fullofit
Have you thought what would happen to the bridges if your mod replaces the texture tiles? Would all bridges need to be relocated / made new to span wider shores?
Also, I think the shoreline texture is the same as for the Channel, so if you make it work for the rivers it may look wrong for the seashore. Just wondering as I'm not 100% sure if what I'm saying is correct.


Two questions there:

1) Of course, bridges would have to be relocated. An application displaying everything on a map, with the possibility of drag and dropping stuff to relocate would be great. I'm thinking about that.

2) That's right. However, as I'm creating sub-theaters, this would be a problem for northern Flanders only. But actually, speaking of Flanders, the real world shore consists of beaches (which is something that can be covered ingame with my CORINE's LCF), therefore, the shoreline texture that you see is not accurate. So having another unaccurate one for this area won't be too much of a problem IMHO.

Originally Posted by OvStachel
Looks really good so far. Is it possible to just have treed areas all around the river, that would seem more realistic rather than it being just water painted over landclasses like farms and such,

Coming along great though!


That's precisely what I'm trying to achieve at the moment. But, I'm using trial-and-error by moving a bit pixel by pixel the landclass layer, which is not ideal.

Making progress; but when getting better somewhere, it's getting worse elsewhere. Definitely a problem with the landclass layer.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

The more I'm working on it, the more I'm thinking that I'm missing the appropriate projection.

Actual terrain files (elevation, rivers, shorelines) need to be Geographic Projection / WGS84 Datum prior to be used for inclusion into CFS3 engine. Therefore, I used this standard for every other files.

If you look back into this thread at this post https://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads....heater-questions-for-the-dev#Post4514332, you'll see that the result is a map stretched horizontally. Now, what has to be known is that CFS3 maps and LCF are squares, so how to reconcile rectangular Geo/WGS84 and square CFS3? I tried Google Mercator projection standard which gives almost a square at the end, but it didn't fit with CFS3's. Still trying then.

Originally Posted by orbyxP
very nice progress. are you able to make the rivers and sea at lower level than the land. maybe adding river banks or elevating the land a bit will give it more dimension. Especially, when light/shadow reflects off the angled surfaces.


Not now. I've let aside elevation data for the moment and decided that it would be better to use CFS3 old SRTM30 for a start. Maybe I'll retry later.

Posted By: RAF_Louvert

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/12/20 12:59 PM

.

It's really quite amazing the progress you've made on this Xav, and in such a short amount of time. Outstanding!

.
Posted By: Robert_Wiggins

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/12/20 02:00 PM

Xav, I really like the shore treatment on the river in you most recent post as opposed to the standard one in WOFF where the shoreline looks artificial with the light soil edging.

Best Regards
Posted By: JJJ65

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/12/20 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by Robert_Wiggins
Xav, I really like the shore treatment on the river in you most recent post as opposed to the standard one in WOFF where the shoreline looks artificial with the light soil edging.

Best Regards

+1
Posted By: VonS

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/12/20 07:48 PM

Superb stuff xJouve - I'm amazed by those couple of pics. in your last post above. Eagerly following developments in this thread.

Von S smile
Posted By: gecko

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/12/20 11:04 PM

I'm not often over here, but xjouve's posts at SOH on this brought me. I think there may be a way to have two types of shoreline. Not sure if it will work, but may be worth a shot. Since you are making incredibly detailed water features, the stream.dds texture (which has been made invisible in WOFF) could possibly be repurposed as a shoreline since it clearly won't be needed for its original purpose. As I understand it, using this texture involves adding a stream vector the same way roads are added. So in theory, you could leave the shoreline texture looking more beachy, and use stream.dds to create a shoreline texture better suited to rivers and small bodies of water, and use no edge texture in other areas, such as where a river passes through a town.

Best of luck on this project, looks like you've made some great improvements! As a CFS3 guy, I hope this eventually ends up part of a full size map, but in any case I'm looking forward to what you do with it.
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/12/20 11:58 PM

Thanks everyone!

Originally Posted by gecko
I'm not often over here, but xjouve's posts at SOH on this brought me. I think there may be a way to have two types of shoreline. Not sure if it will work, but may be worth a shot. Since you are making incredibly detailed water features, the stream.dds texture (which has been made invisible in WOFF) could possibly be repurposed as a shoreline since it clearly won't be needed for its original purpose. As I understand it, using this texture involves adding a stream vector the same way roads are added. So in theory, you could leave the shoreline texture looking more beachy, and use stream.dds to create a shoreline texture better suited to rivers and small bodies of water, and use no edge texture in other areas, such as where a river passes through a town.

Best of luck on this project, looks like you've made some great improvements! As a CFS3 guy, I hope this eventually ends up part of a full size map, but in any case I'm looking forward to what you do with it.


That seems very interesting! I need to have a look on it! Thanks Gecko!
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/13/20 12:08 AM

I've made noticeable progress today on understanding how to get better fitment between landclass, rivers and map as well. I'll post about that tomorrow as it is 2am in France now, and I need a good sleep! smile

Amiens on the east

[Linked Image]

Saint Quentin on the east

[Linked Image]

Péronne on the north

[Linked Image]

The Somme River

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/13/20 10:42 AM

I've got a question for you gecko. I saw your work on cfs3h2o.dds and in all regards, it is very good.

From my understranding, this file is more or less a landclass for waters, isn't it? It tell's CFS3 engine which color to use for water according to the region. Can't understand why it has been rotated and inverted, BTW. Anyway.

I tried yours and then my own customization to replace the one into /fxtextures, but I got no chance to make it working with the last version of WOFF. Do you know if it is still compatible?

In fact, it is obvious that in the Somme River region, the water needs to be way more green, so I'm trying to improve accuracy.

Originally Posted by gecko
I'm not often over here, but xjouve's posts at SOH on this brought me. I think there may be a way to have two types of shoreline. Not sure if it will work, but may be worth a shot. Since you are making incredibly detailed water features, the stream.dds texture (which has been made invisible in WOFF) could possibly be repurposed as a shoreline since it clearly won't be needed for its original purpose. As I understand it, using this texture involves adding a stream vector the same way roads are added. So in theory, you could leave the shoreline texture looking more beachy, and use stream.dds to create a shoreline texture better suited to rivers and small bodies of water, and use no edge texture in other areas, such as where a river passes through a town.

Best of luck on this project, looks like you've made some great improvements! As a CFS3 guy, I hope this eventually ends up part of a full size map, but in any case I'm looking forward to what you do with it.
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/13/20 12:09 PM

So, yesterday, to find a way of reconciling all layers used to terrain creation in CFS3, I've almost restarted to the very beginning.

I eventually recalculated the elevation layer for the entire theater. I may have used some different data than that of Microsoft developers back in the days as it does produce slight dissimilarities ingame. And this is good as it makes waterbeds fitting better; especially when it comes to very tight elevation discrepancies.

Just an example: look at my last screenshot above. And now, look at the one I just took couple of minutes ago after having installed the new elevation files into WOFF. The red circle is where you can see the main difference between both.

[Linked Image]

Now, here are the steps.

1) Genuine elevation data from Global Mapper

[Linked Image]

Projection is Geo/WGS84

2) Conversion for CFS3 engine

[Linked Image]

Projection is ???.

a) Notice that from a rectangular shape, ers2tiff (Microsoft app), has turned it into a square (not exactly, but very very close to). I thought that it could be a Mercator projection (used for example by Google Maps), but it isn't. I made tests with maps and it proved not to be the same. It seems to be a brutal resize... Nothing more than that.

b) Notice that the file has borders. And not tight ones.

3) Use as a background for an all-in-one layers file

[Linked Image]

a) Notice that although I've vastly enlarged the file, I kept borders.

4) Playing with the layers

[Linked Image]

a) Notice that I've used rivers as the reference. Looking ingame, I've adjusted all other layers relatively to rivers as they are static once installed into the game. The truth is that adjustments were only a matter of couple of pixels, not much really as layers came fairly well all together from the beginning.
Posted By: gecko

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/13/20 05:37 PM

Thanks, glad you liked it. Yes, that's basically what cfs3h2o.dds does. I have installed it on WOFF, and it works, though it looks a little different since I think some of the water shaders may be a bit different. Since it sounds like you have redone the full map my texture will fit approximately, but there are some areas where the colors will not be in the right place. Ideally it would need to be redone specifically for your map using your final water outlines image. It can be made much more quickly and accurately that way. I'd like to do one at twice or 4x the resolution of my largest version, as I think your map would be able to take advantage of that, but my PC is not powerful enough to work with such a large file.
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/13/20 07:24 PM

Which version of WOFF are you running? I've retried with PE 5.04 and it doesn't change anything. That's weird.

Well, I'm uninstalling the game and I'll try with 5.03 as it seems me that I tried your mod successfully on this one.
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/13/20 07:42 PM

Today I succeeded in using 1 arc-sec elevation data for the whole theater. I created 2 versions of it.

1) Resolutions from 128m to 37km Similarly to original terrain files

[Linked Image]

2) Resolutions from 32m to 37km. Look at the size of files, that is a massive mod

[Linked Image]

Flying over the Somme region, my first impression is that the first solution is good, while the massive mod is overkill (and my graphics are going short on FPS; I didn't measure them, but considering the lack of fluidity, I guess about 15-20 FPS at most. However, maybe someone with a better machine could take advantage of it)
Posted By: BuckeyeBob

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/13/20 08:53 PM

Fascinating stuff. Keep up the good work!

I wish I understood more of it!
Posted By: RAF_Louvert

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/13/20 10:20 PM

.

I agree Bob. The screenshots are fascinating and most encouraging. The explanation of how it's being done reads like the following for me: Это все больше, чем я могу понять, и это действительно не имеет никакого смысла для меня вообще.

.
Posted By: BuckeyeBob

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/13/20 10:35 PM

I like the pictures, too! Other than that, it's all Greek (or Russian) to me.
Posted By: gecko

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/13/20 11:25 PM

I'm using PE 5.04, and it works fine for me. As mentioned before, it does look different from how it looks in stock CFS3. If you're still having trouble, PM me your email and we can go from there.
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/14/20 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by RAF_Louvert
.

I agree Bob. The screenshots are fascinating and most encouraging. The explanation of how it's being done reads like the following for me: Это все больше, чем я могу понять, и это действительно не имеет никакого смысла для меня вообще.

.

Originally Posted by BuckeyeBob
I like the pictures, too! Other than that, it's all Greek (or Russian) to me.


Greek and Russian are both Chinese to me! wink

Originally Posted by gecko
I'm using PE 5.04, and it works fine for me. As mentioned before, it does look different from how it looks in stock CFS3. If you're still having trouble, PM me your email and we can go from there.


I found out the problem. My machine can't run big cfs3h2o.dds. It runs okay with 1024x1024; but above that, when ingame, my plane rolls in place for ever and I can't get control over it. I didn't notice that the problem was the size of the cfs3h2o.dds before.

So, I've made some tests about which color to choose for the Somme River. Although I think that your mod would be appropriate as well.

  • 1) I started from an actual view of the Somme River

    [Linked Image]

    Two points to notice there. The Somme waterbed is made 2 types of waterflow.

    a) One big part, kind of marshes, which is almost static, encouraging growth of aquatic plants, producing a dark green color

    b) One tight part, a canal, with constant flow, producing a medium green color

    So, I tested with these 2 types of green. However, as you can see in the above picture, these are not definite colors, but color sets, and that is not possible to display at a resolution of 1024x1024px for the whole theater.
  • 2) Dark green test

    [Linked Image]

    [Linked Image]

    [Linked Image]
  • 3) Medium green test

    [Linked Image]

    [Linked Image]

    [Linked Image]
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/14/20 02:29 PM

Finally, it seems like it was not the size of cfs3h2o.dds that matters. I've succeeded in using a bigger one of 8192x8192px by reducing dds compression quality to bare minimum.

That size is needed to support the mod I want to use.

Look at the following screenshot. I've added a bit a heterogeneity into the water so that the color isn't uniform. I know that it is not easy to see it, but I do believe it adds something to create a more accurate look.


[Linked Image]
Posted By: CCIP

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/14/20 05:08 PM

I've been quietly following progress, and I think this looks great! Took me a moment to see the variation, but now I definitely see it and it's a good detail in my book. The only suggestion I'd have is to try and hide the "squares (since apparently every pixel of the texture covers a huge square on the ground) - you can do it by making it more of a gradient between brighter and darker areas, or you can set them up in lines/rectangles of the same/similar colour but different length. It's just a sort of psychological trick, we humans have a tendency to unconsciously notice perfect squares especially if there's multiple ones, since that's not a shape we're used to seeing in natural landscapes smile
I also definitely like the darker, greener-looking water in general, both because it looks more natural for this theater - and because it blends into the landscape more, and it also actually helps conceal the "sharp" shorelines. I've never been a fan of the crisp blue when it's not the tropics. Out of curiosity - does CFS3 have any waterclasses, or is all the water in it the same texture?

As far as an earlier note about hitting limits with things like flow modeling for the flooded farmland - my two cents is that I think what you have looks fantastic and a great improvement over stock WOFF, and I would not worry too much about perfect precision! Anything that it takes to give a better illusion of "being there" is great in my book, and even if you have to guess or "fudge" the water shapes a little - it's a worthy tradeoff.

And maybe it's a pipe dream for someone else to do in the future - but what I would give to see some small boats (even static ones), reeds or other water plants, some foot bridges and maybe even board walkways along the shore... then again, I suppose we're not really going on a sightseeing trip here smile
Posted By: gecko

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/14/20 05:44 PM

Glad you found the problem. The downside of lower quality is the artifacts that tend to show up, and they can get quite noticable on the water texture because of how big the pixels are. I think for the level of detail you are going for you'd need 16384 x 16384.

CCIP, all CFS3 water color is on one texture, but it functions as a map to the entire gameap. If you want to try mine it is available here:
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/local_links.php?catid=158
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/15/20 07:14 AM

Originally Posted by CCIP
I've been quietly following progress, and I think this looks great! Took me a moment to see the variation, but now I definitely see it and it's a good detail in my book. The only suggestion I'd have is to try and hide the "squares (since apparently every pixel of the texture covers a huge square on the ground) - you can do it by making it more of a gradient between brighter and darker areas, or you can set them up in lines/rectangles of the same/similar colour but different length. It's just a sort of psychological trick, we humans have a tendency to unconsciously notice perfect squares especially if there's multiple ones, since that's not a shape we're used to seeing in natural landscapes smile
I also definitely like the darker, greener-looking water in general, both because it looks more natural for this theater - and because it blends into the landscape more, and it also actually helps conceal the "sharp" shorelines. I've never been a fan of the crisp blue when it's not the tropics. Out of curiosity - does CFS3 have any waterclasses, or is all the water in it the same texture?

As far as an earlier note about hitting limits with things like flow modeling for the flooded farmland - my two cents is that I think what you have looks fantastic and a great improvement over stock WOFF, and I would not worry too much about perfect precision! Anything that it takes to give a better illusion of "being there" is great in my book, and even if you have to guess or "fudge" the water shapes a little - it's a worthy tradeoff.

And maybe it's a pipe dream for someone else to do in the future - but what I would give to see some small boats (even static ones), reeds or other water plants, some foot bridges and maybe even board walkways along the shore... then again, I suppose we're not really going on a sightseeing trip here smile


Thanks! I agree for the daker green.

Regarding the angular look, it depends on the part they come from.

If they are generated by the landclass file (LCF), then I won't be able to do much improvement as any gradient is made of different colors, therefore, we have two solutions:

(1) Telling the landclass file (as it needs to know) that new variation of let’s say "green" (the color used for "forest"), also correponds to "forest", and then it would generate the same ingame
(2) Telling the landclass file (as it needs to know) that new variation of let’s say "green" (the color used for "forest"), correponds to "border of forest" (a new class then), and as a matter of fact we would need a new appropriate texture to display something ingame that simulates a smoother transition between, for example, a forest and a field

If they are generated by the river vectors (hyp), then I could try smoothing a bit the polygons (rivers, lakes, etc.). But it has limits: the smoother the polygons, the more the number of vertices (points that once placed the one after the others create the shape), and the more difficult for Microsoft water design files to run. I mean the simpler way to design a line is by using 2 vertices, one for each extreme. It will produce a straight line. Now, if you want to design a curved line, you'll obviously need much more vertices. And imagine when you want to design at same time lakes, rivers, etc. The number of vertices increases dramatically and even more when trying to get those shapes as smoother as possible. smile

Originally Posted by gecko
Glad you found the problem. The downside of lower quality is the artifacts that tend to show up, and they can get quite noticable on the water texture because of how big the pixels are. I think for the level of detail you are going for you'd need 16384 x 16384.

CCIP, all CFS3 water color is on one texture, but it functions as a map to the entire gameap. If you want to try mine it is available here:
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/local_links.php?catid=158


Well, as I'm creating sub-theaters (that will finally include at the end -I guess- only water related mods), I don't really need to cover the whole CFS3 theater. Therefore, it reduces the necessary size of cfs3h2o.dds. But, it seems ATM that I'm not done with weird problems with this file. I got random crashes last time I tested with this specific mod installed.

PS: I cannot recommend more Gecko's water color textures. A must have!



Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/15/20 10:56 PM

Found out today how to control zoom on in-flight map. I didn't realize that before because of faulty placement of big maps each time I tried. Anyway, a map of 8192x8192px can be used full resolution. A larger size might be possible, however, I've tried to use a 20480x20480px map, showing all the little villages, but I didn't get something good.

I have also worked on improving my maps.

The color one

[Linked Image]

The B&W one

[Linked Image]

Close-up (not really intresting without more details)

[Linked Image]

The big map

[Linked Image]

Even with almost no zoom, it is hard to decifer something. Too bad. The dds is of good quality, but there is something with CFS3 there.
Posted By: orbyxP

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/15/20 11:44 PM

Those in flight maps look like winners in my book, xjouve. Do you know if there is a way to make the green plane disappear, but keep everything else including all the waypoint lines?
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/16/20 06:16 AM

Thanks!

Unfortunately, plane and waypoints are parts the same feature (route).

Ground targets can be removed

[Linked Image]

Route can be removed as well

[Linked Image]

Even the frontline can be removed

[Linked Image]

And we can play with colors and width of the frontline (I like this version)

[Linked Image]

In case you don't like the green colour, then it can be changed.

[Linked Image]

Also, such changes cannot be done ingame. smile
Posted By: Becker01

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/16/20 12:25 PM

Hallo @xjouve,

it's getting more and more interesting …!

So I have a question (2 examples) to understand better the potenzial of your method:
a) Map Alsace, west from Colmar you can see the "Lac de Longemer" and north from it the river "Nuene" (in WOFF and reality). The river flows through the mountains and at some places uphill.
b) Map Alsace, east from Mulhouse and Habsheim there's a lake, nobody knows it.

Is it possible to repair such things with your method?

Thanks for answer!
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/16/20 01:05 PM

Hallo! Danke shön!

We'll have much more in this area. smile


a) Vosges

[Linked Image]

b) Mulhouse

[Linked Image]
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/16/20 03:02 PM

I've done a third sub-theater this afternoon. I called it Aisne River theater.

Welcome to Soissons

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Etangs in the Aisne valley

[Linked Image]

Craonnelle and Craonne on the deadly Chemin des Dames

[Linked Image]
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/16/20 04:36 PM

Fourth one done as well. This is the Velse River theater.

Welcome to Reims

The map needs more labels...

[Linked Image]

Shot taken flying over Nogent l'Abbesse. You can see Reims in the distance. Fort de la Pompelle might be on the left.

[Linked Image]

Heading north. The village underneath is probably Bourgogne and the one in a forest is Brimont. There was a Fort there.

This was over this area where Fonck spotted two Albatrosses led by Hptm Eberhard von Seel (CO Jasta 17) on the morning of 12 June 1917. Von Seel felt in flames as the Frenchman 6th confirmed victory. The other pilot was probably Utffz Hermann Wilhelm who died this day, to be added to the long list of Fonck's probable victories.

[Linked Image]


Posted By: Robert_Wiggins

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/16/20 04:44 PM

I am really impressed with the detailed look of the maps Xjouve. Very nice work!
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/17/20 09:41 AM

Thanks Robert! Greatly appreciated.

Today I've added labels to offer better coverage of areas where too few labels where displayed. I've also increased the contrast of roads, as even if they are not all there ingame, they allow better identification of the location of urban areas.

PS: CFS3/WOFF roads are most likely some the main ones on my maps
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/17/20 09:45 AM

Meuse River Theater done.

Welcome to Verdun

[Linked Image]

Bras and Charny-sur-Meuse underneath, Verdun in the distance


[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Some observations

- WOFF frontline is increasingly too south after Aubérive in the vicinity of Reims (the front line is about 15km too south in the Verdun area, same in the St Mihiel area)
- With more variations of elevations and more rivers than what I had previously, it is more and more evident that the terrain has to be relocated (not much, but it has too)
- With more woods than what I had previously, I had to rework on the landclass (LCF) file
- With more rivers than what we had originally, it has become clear that the water class file (cfs3h2o.dds) has to be flipped back to normal position. I'll post about that, as this is funny. smile

Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/17/20 10:54 AM

So, as I was testing the Meuse River Theater, look at what I found. It seems like the waterclass file, cfs3h2o.dds, which is flipped by default in CFS3, has to be flipped back to normal position.

I had Gecko's 512 mod installed, but it is the same with default texture.

Look at the colors of water CT

[Linked Image]

The Meuse river area, or Verdun area if it you prefer, might very well corresponds to this area on the whole theater, isn't it? (in red)

[Linked Image]

So I flipped Gecko's cfs3h2o.dds back to normal position and tested ingame. The color of water was then uniform, with a nice dark green. smile

[Linked Image]
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 04/24/20 04:44 PM

I had a bit of fun today flying over the Vosges. I used v2.01 of my terrain mod and a test version of the rivers mod for Haut Rhin area.

I'll certainly remove many streams as they stand out too much and TBH, the water file is so big, that I got crashes and terrible hits on FPS.

Lac de Kruth-Wildenstein underneath

[Linked Image]

Lac Blanc and Lac Noir, heading to Collet du Linge from the Tête des Faux (underneath). This is the EXACT location of the frontline

[Linked Image]

The unfamous Collet du Linge on the right.

[Linked Image]

I know the place very well for having visited the battlefied several times. I had goose bumps when seeing this on my screen. Between 20 July 1915 and 16 October 1915, 17,000 soldiers died here.

Two photos I took there.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 05/18/20 12:03 PM

I'm making progress on the global_layer work that will accompagny landcovers. The work to do is definitely not small.

Actually, when using stock landcover, you don't need to be very precise with your locations. It doesn't really matter if a town sound is 5 km too far on the E or something. But with improved landcover, it is wierd. Same for frontlines, especially when you use a precise map in addition to the new landcover. Well, all is linked.

Here you can see the stock sound location for the city of Poperinghe. It is not even close to Poperinghe, but it is E of Ypres.

[Linked Image]

EDIT: finished to relocate town sounds (global layer of 1914, but I believe these are used in all periods).

For those of you modding global layer, here are my changes if you want to use them. Very few items have been left unchanged. I've replaced Messines by Vouziers as Mesen (belgian name) was already included.

Code
town,british,sound,N47.6245,E4.33685,0,,Montbard,townbritishsound A499,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N47.85971,E5.57375,0,,Chatillion sur seine,townbritishsound A500,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N47.62375,E6.15681,0,,Vesoul,townbritishsound A501,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N47.06713,E5.61534,0,,Chassigny,townbritishsound A502,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N48.69062,E6.1817,0,,Nancy,townbritishsound A503,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N48.11058,E5.13997,0.00,,Chaumont,townbritishsound A504,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N48.67509,E5.8909,0,,Toul,townbritishsound A505,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N49.16088,E5.38502,0,,Verdun,townbritishsound A506,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N48.96129,E4.36295,0.00,,Chalons,townbritishsound A507,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N49.04529,E3.95405,0,,Epernay,townbritishsound A508,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N49.04198,E3.40405,0,,Chateau Thierry,townbritishsound A509,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N51.03557,E2.37442,0,,Dunkerque,townbritishsound A510,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N50.95583,E1.85566,0,,Calais,townbritishsound A511,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N50.72472,E1.60229,0,,Boulogne,townbritishsound A512,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N49.92492,E1.07906,0.00,,Dieppe,townbritishsound A513,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N49.03607,E2.05513,0,,Cergy,townbritishsound A514,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N49.43107,E2.08328,0,,Beauvais,townbritishsound A515,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N48.56002,E3.29796,0,,Provins,townbritishsound A516,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N48*51'19.0295,E2*21'55.4898,0,,Paris,townbritishsound A517,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N49.37969,E3.32405,0,,Soissons,townbritishsound A518,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N49.41834,E2.82623,0,,Compiegne,townbritishsound A519,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N49.19427,E2.46231,0.00,,Chantilly,townbritishsound A520,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N50.002,E2.62011,0.00,,Albert,townbritishsound A521,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N49.92736,E2.75757,0,,Cappy,townbritishsound A523,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N49.93951,E2.71809,0,,Bray,townbritishsound A524,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N49.90823,E2.51055,0,,Corbie,townbritishsound A525,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N49.89596,E2.29443,0,,Amiens,townbritishsound A526,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N50.10539,E1.83609,0.00,,Abbeville,townbritishsound A527,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N50.37366,E2.03771,0,,Hesdin,townbritishsound A528,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N50.08386,E2.65689,0.00,,Beaumont Hamel,townbritishsound A529,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N50.15909,E2.34146,0,,Doullens,townbritishsound A530,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N50.28956,E2.77988,0,,Arras,townbritishsound A531,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N50.35128,E2.69343,0,,Mont St Eloi,townbritishsound A532,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N51.12992,E2.75242,0,,Nieeuwpoort,townbritishsound A533,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N50.85516,E2.7253,0,,Poperinghe,townbritishsound A534,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N50.53176,E2.63981,0,,Bethune,townbritishsound A536,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N50.42296,E2.1698,0,,Blangy-sur-Ternoise,townbritishsound A537,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N50.70624,E2.12036,0,,Lumbres,townbritishsound A538,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N50.75014,E2.25245,0,,St Omer,townbritishsound A539,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N48.59228,E6.49155,0,,Luneville,townbritishsound A540,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N48.28582,E7.94902,0,,St Die,townbritishsound A541,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N48.17295,E6.44829,0,,Epinal,townbritishsound A542,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N47.64041,E6.86131,0,,Belfort,townbritishsound A543,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N47.51048,E6.79848,0,,Montbeliard,townbritishsound A544,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N49.69806,E2.79001,0,,Roye,townbritishsound A545,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N48.34621,E6.63583,0,,Rambervillers,townbritishsound A546,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N48.87284,E2.71397,0,,Lagny,townbritishsound A547,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N49.21367,E5.63513,0,,Etain,townbritishsound A548,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N48.83975,E4.34526,0,,Cernon,townbritishsound A549,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N48.94934,E3.1263,0,,La Ferte sous Jouarre,townbritishsound A550,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N49.04619,E3.39907,0,,Chateau-Thierry,townbritishsound A551,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N49.50537,E2.43502,0,,Saint-Just-en-Chausee,townbritishsound A552,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N49.25369,E3.0942,0,,Villers-Cotterets,townbritishsound A553,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N48.80144,E2.13135,0,,Versailles,townbritishsound A554,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N50.73885,E2.73285,0,,Bailleul,townbritishsound A555,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N50.64162,E2.63878,0,,Merville,townbritishsound A556,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N50.05907,E2.60805,0,,Englebelmer,townbritishsound A557,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N50*17'0.9723,E2*45'36.6743,0,,Saint Nicolas,townbritishsound A558,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N49.96591,E1.94304,0,,Airaines,townbritishsound A559,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,british,sound,N50.88593,E1.66288,0,,Wissant,townbritishsound A560,,,Britain,,WW1,usa,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.73667,E2.73045,0.00,,Bailleul,towngermansound A535,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N49.99853,E2.71611,0.00,,Fricourt,towngermansound A522,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50*43'44.6721,E3*2'59.5772,0.00,,Bizet,towngermansound A335,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.687,E3.88237,0.00,,Armanteires,towngermansound A335,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.04016,E2.72598,0.00,,Pozieres,towngermansound A335,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.42952,E2.82692,0,,Lens,towngermansound A561,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N51.35506,E4.64104,0.00,,Brecht,towngermansound A562,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N49*42'47.5642,E6*47'16.5317,0,,Nohfelden,towngermansound A563,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50*33'26.8596,E5*34'34.6232,0,,Flamello Grande,towngermansound A564,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.63378,E5.57899,0,,Liege,towngermansound A565,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.77577,E6.08368,0,,Aachen,towngermansound A566,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.96318,E5.49385,0,,Genk,towngermansound A567,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.9316,E5.327,0,,Hasselt,towngermansound A568,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N51*3'13.8468,E5*21'26.6492,0,,Beringen,towngermansound A569,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.80789,E4.93423,0.00,,Tienen,towngermansound A570,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.47149,E4.89029,0,,Namur,towngermansound A571,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N49.70361,E4.93423,0,,Sedan,towngermansound A572,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N49.76086,E4.72,0,,Charleville,towngermansound A573,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.28056,E3.97533,0,,Maubeuge,towngermansound A574,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.40983,E4.4426,0,,Charleroi,towngermansound A575,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.47608,E4.18579,0,,La Louviere,towngermansound A576,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.45357,E3.95096,0,,Mons,towngermansound A577,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.63596,E3.77106,0.00,,Ath,towngermansound A578,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.84584,E4.35299,0,,Brussels,towngermansound A579,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.73906,E4.23248,0,,Halle,towngermansound A580,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N51*15'53.6837,E4*36'53.1990,0,,Schoien,towngermansound A581,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N51.21742,E4.4038,0.00,,Antwerp,towngermansound A582,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.93939,E4.03748,0.00,,Aalst,towngermansound A583,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N51.33168,E3.82805,0.00,,Terneuzen,towngermansound A584,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N51.03341,E2.86503,0,,Diksmuide,towngermansound A585,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N51.20989,E3.22174,0,,Brugge,towngermansound A586,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N51.05434,E3.72437,0,,Ghent,towngermansound A587,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.99906,E3.32886,0,,Thielt,towngermansound A588,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N47.75225,E7.34573,0,,Mulhouse,towngermansound A589,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N48.03494,E7.58125,0,,Breisach am Rhein,towngermansound A590,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N49.00365,E8.3963,0,,Karlsruhe,towngermansound A591,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N49*10'19.3633,E7*9'5.2222,0,,Freyming,towngermansound A592,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N49*12'11.8653,E7*0'16.4668,0,,Creutzwald,towngermansound A593,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N49.11973,E6.17157,0,,Metz,towngermansound A594,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N49.35745,E6.16693,0.00,,Thionville,towngermansound A595,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N49.52053,E5.76027,0,,Longwy,towngermansound A596,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N49.61204,E6.12968,0,,Luxembourg,towngermansound A597,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N49.63857,E5.88644,0,,Arlon,towngermansound A598,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N49.50894,E4.36604,0.00,,Rethel,towngermansound A599,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N49.57132,E3.89294,0,,Sissonne,towngermansound A600,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N49.5643,E3.62326,0,,Laon,towngermansound A601,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N49.84695,E3.28723,0,,St Quentin,towngermansound A602,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.06056,E2.74778,0.00,,Courcellete,towngermansound A603,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.10363,E2.84855,0.00,,Bapaume,towngermansound A604,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N49.93211,E2.93335,0.00,,Peronne,towngermansound A605,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.27124,E2.89198,0.00,,Monchy,towngermansound A606,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.10649,E3.54103,0,,Le Cateau,towngermansound A607,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.17536,E3.23547,0.00,,Cambrai,towngermansound A608,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N49.57688,E3.68591,0,,Athies,towngermansound A609,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.61462,E3.01712,0,,Loos,towngermansound A610,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.35422,E2.80083,0,,Thelus,towngermansound A611,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.3747,E2.81027,0,,Vimy,towngermansound A612,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.34809,E2.89146,0.00,,Oppy,towngermansound A613,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.32672,E2.98365,0,,Vitry,towngermansound A614,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.34721,E3.20303,0,,Masny,towngermansound A615,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.32683,E3.39478,0.00,,Denain,towngermansound A616,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.35773,E3.52112,0,,Valenciennes,towngermansound A617,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.60503,E3.38928,0,,Tournai,towngermansound A618,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.82784,E3.26534,0,,Kortrijk,towngermansound A619,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.79671,E3.12132,0,,Menen,towngermansound A620,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.69254,E3.17711,0,,Roubaix,towngermansound A621,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.6303,E3.0566,0,,Lille,towngermansound A622,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.76361,E2.89885,0.00,,Messines,towngermansound A623,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.72662,E2.87988,0,,Ploegsteert,towngermansound A624,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.84996,E2.88563,0.00,,Ypres,towngermansound A625,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N49.39623,E4.70284,0,,Vouziers,towngermansound A626,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.88896,E2.9361,0.00,,St Julien,towngermansound A627,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.9474,E3.12424,0,,Roulers,towngermansound A628,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N51.14145,E3.13763,0,,Zedelgem,towngermansound A630,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N48.98179,E5.70774,0,,Vigneulles les Hattonchatel,towngermansound A631,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N48.93445,E6.03973,0,,Pont a Mousson,towngermansound A632,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N49.50515,E5.97244,0,,Esch sur Alzette,towngermansound A633,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N49.52075,E5.3627,0,,Montmedy,towngermansound A634,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N49.5339,E5.17353,0,,Martincourt,towngermansound A635,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.89995,E3.02124,0,,Passchendaele,towngermansound A636,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N51.21635,E2.92854,0,,Oostende,towngermansound A637,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.66818,E2.97249,0,,Perenchies,towngermansound A638,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.49356,E2.95841,0,,Carvin,towngermansound A639,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N50.40152,E2.86846,0,,Mericourt,towngermansound A640,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N49.59091,E3.65707,0,,Chambry,towngermansound A643,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N49.34951,E4.21841,0,,Warmeriville,towngermansound A644,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N48.82156,E6.51077,0,,Chateau Sallins,towngermansound A645,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
town,german,sound,N48.07991,E7.35809,0,,Colmar,towngermansound A646,,,Germany,,WW1,germany,,,,,,
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 05/18/20 01:43 PM

My locations for forts all along the frontline (most of them are there; it actually includes also few smaller constructions called 'batteries' or 'ouvrages')

I'm using WOFF Douaumont object, which is good even if we could imagine having many different ones to better reflects reality. Maybe an update could be done with Lou's great forts. smile

Code
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N48.59428,E6.65862,300.00,316,Luneville Fort de Manonviller,Verdun Fort de Manonviller,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Vaux,N49.200460,E5.470333,40.00,342,Verdun Fort de Vaux,Verdun Fort de Vaux,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,, 
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N49.216968,E5.438712,340.00,393,Verdun Fort de Douaumont,Verdun Fort de Douaumont,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N49.187397,E5.438844,350.00,345,Verdun Fort de Souville,Verdun Fort de Souville,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N49.181342,E5.463145,90.00,288,Verdun Fort de Tavannes,Verdun Fort de Tavannes,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N49.167374,E5.484478,120.00,334,Verdun Fort de Moulainville,Verdun Fort de Moulainville,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N49.124904,E5.480744,110.00,386,Verdun Fort du Rozellier,Verdun Fort du Rozellier,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N49.115446,E5.433242,140.00,335,Verdun Fort d'Haudainville,Verdun Fort d'Haudainville,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N49.147821,E5.435062,135.00,271,Verdun Fort de Belrupt,Verdun Fort de Belrupt,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N49.180723,E5.383971,10.00,305,Verdun Fort de Belleville,Verdun Fort de Belleville,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N49.174198,E5.421455,145.00,316,Verdun Fort de St-Michel,Verdun Fort de St-Michel,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N49.155779,E5.329766,260.00,274,Verdun Fort de la Chaume,Verdun Fort de la Chaume,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N49.137729,E5.337420,230.00,290,Verdun Fort de Regret,Verdun Fort de Regret,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N49.153250,E5.309868,260.00,307,Verdun Fort des Sartelles,Verdun Fort des Sartelles,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N49.204095,E5.341786,350.00,263,Verdun Fort de Vacherauville,Verdun Fort de Vacherauville,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N49.195860,E5.314622,310.00,295,Verdun Fort de Marre,Verdun Fort de Marre,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N49.192179,E5.299080,310.00,306,Verdun Fort de Bois Bourrus,Verdun Fort de Bois Bourrus,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N49.178249,E5.302956,230.00,295,Verdun Fort de Choisel,Verdun Fort de Choisel,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N49.112705,E5.378993,185.00,286,Verdun Fort de Dugny,Verdun Fort de Dugny,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N49.112009,E5.343201,230.00,319,Verdun Fort de Landrecourt,Verdun Fort de Landrecourt,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N49.056870,E5.447901,265.00,343,Verdun Fort de Genicourt,Verdun Fort de Genicourt,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N48.830819,E5.622392,250.00,265,St-Mihiel Fort de Liouville,St-Mihiel Fort de Liouville,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N48.789214,E5.670636,190.00,388,St-Mihiel Fort de Gironville,St-Mihiel Fort de Gironville,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N48.775338,E5.687101,105.00,343,St-Mihiel Fort de Jouy-sous-les-Cotes,St-Mihiel Fort de Jouy-sous-les-Cotes,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N48.876367,E5.539707,350.00,376,St-Mihiel Fort du Camp des Romains,St-Mihiel Fort du Camp des Romains,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N48.988454,E5.488526,60.00,244,St-Mihiel Fort de Troyon,St-Mihiel Fort de Troyon,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N48.911971,E5.498438,50.00,307,St-Mihiel Fort des Paroches,St-Mihiel Fort des Paroches,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N49.191776,E4.059683,100.00,121,Reims Fort de Montbre,Reims Fort de Montbre,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N49.215999,E4.129145,130.00,121,Reims Fort de la Pompelle,Reims Fort de la Pompelle,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N49.245679,E4.154704,110.00,182,Reims Fort de Nogent-l'Abbesse,Reims Fort de Nogent-l'Abbesse,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N49.281052,E4.135394,210.00,174,Reims Fort de Witry-les-Reims,Reims Fort de Witry-les-Reims,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N49.341975,E4.017121,5.00,174,Reims Fort de Brimont,Reims Fort de Brimont,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N49.323815,E4.106170,220.00,109,Reims Fort de Fresnes,Reims Fort de Fresnes,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N49.307533,E3.932966,100.00,197,Reims Fort de St-Thierry,Reims Fort de St-Thierry,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N49.307533,E3.932966,260.00,209,Reims Reduit de Chenay,Reims Reduit de Chenay,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N49.257172,E4.146000,60.00,263,Reims Ouvrage de la Vigie-de-Berru,Reims Ouvrage de la Vigie-de-Berru,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N49.338529,E4.000731,270.00,110,Reims Batterie de Loivre,Reims Batterie de Loivre,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N49.341554,E4.034502,100.00,130,Reims Batterie du Cran-de-Brimont,Reims Batterie du Cran-de-Brimont,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N49.461182,E3.522654,280.00,137,Soissons Fort de la Malmaison,Soissons Fort de la Malmaison,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N49.401124,E3.455283,130.00,166,Soissons Fort de Conde,Soissons Fort de Conde,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N50.555740,E3.053348,185.00,48,Lille Fort de Seclin,Lille Fort de Seclin,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N50.581133,E3.159317,100.00,44,Lille Fort de Sainghin,Lille Fort de Sainghin,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N50.693072,E3.016932,350.00,24,Lille Fort du Vert-Galant,Lille Fort du Vert-Galant,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N50.633289,E2.957149,260.00,48,Lille Fort d'Englos,Lille Fort d'Englos,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N50.644776,E3.120087,60.00,48,Lille Fort de Mons-en-Bareuil,Lille Fort de Mons-en-Baroeuil,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N50.692234,E3.086732,30.00,39,Lille Fort de Bondues,Lille Fort de Bondues,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N50.659829,E2.957307,280.00,20,Lille Fort de Premesque,Lille Fort de Premesque,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N49.542327,E3.538106,340.00,189,Laon Fort de Laniscourt,Laon Fort de Laniscourt,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N49.498414,E3.673168,100.00,199,Laon Fort de Montberault,Laon Fort de Montberault,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N49.531132,E3.684043,100.00,158,Laon Batterie des Bruyeres,Laon Batterie des Bruyeres,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N49.691823,E3.314475,310.00,87,La Fere Fort de Liez,La Fere Fort de Liez,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N49.710728,E3.418297,30.00,112,La Fere Fort Mayot,La Fere Fort Mayot,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N49.717941,E3.339787,340.00,100,La Fere Fort de Vendeuil,La Fere Fort de Vendeuil,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N51.053376,E2.446734,75.00,17,Dunkerque Fort des Dunes,Dunkerque Fort des Dunes,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N51.05958,E2.44991,350.00,6,Dunkerque Batterie de Zuydcoote,Dunkerque Batterie de Zuydcoote,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N48.014811,E6.575201,70.00,562,Belfort Fort du Parmont,Belfort Fort du Parmont,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N47.917704,E6.639478,160.00,768,Belfort Fort de Rupt,Belfort Fort de Rupt,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N47.730744,E6.813101,185.00,562,Belfort Fort de Giromagny,Belfort Fort de Giromagny,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N47.859171,E6.743498,190.00,687,Belfort Fort de Chateau-Lambert,Belfort Fort de Chateau-Lambert,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N47.832128,E6.791846,55.00,1141,Belfort Fort de Servance,Belfort Fort de Servance,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N47.680462,E6.899718,0.00,511,Belfort Fort de Roppe,Belfort Fort de Roppe,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N47.630249,E6.877871,150.00,429,Belfort Fort des Hautes-Perches,Belfort Fort des Hautes-Perches,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N47.626095,E6.868687,350.00,414,Belfort Fort des Basses-Perches,Belfort Fort des Basses-Perches,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N47.600505,E6.908308,100.00,384,Belfort Fort de Vezelois,Belfort Fort de Vezelois,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Verdun,Fort,Douaumont,N47.574412,E6.843238,140.00,427,Belfort Fort du Bois d'Oye,Belfort Fort du Bois d'Oye,OBD,,France,,,,,,,,,
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 05/19/20 10:28 AM

I'm currently creating frontline German spots to be added/removed to global layer periods. In addition, I'll create more spots such as cities, and I'll modify the Frontline.txt files and also the target files as well.

[Linked Image]


Aim is, getting a more accurate frontline all along the war (and thus increasing compatibility with both my land cover and map mods) and getting more accurate flight paths, for two reasons:

(1) As per military strategies, German scouts were very unlikely to cross the lines, while French were usually patrolling frontlines eventually flying 5km over them and BEF were very offensive, trying to fly most of the time inside occupied territory.
(2) Squadrons were under authority of an army and consequently, were fighting over a part of the front assigned to that army.

Just an example. I was re-reading this morning squadron logs of French stork Spa 26 for the months of April and May 1918. In 2 months the only fight inside allied lines has taken place over Breteuil (13.5km French side) at 4000m against 2 recon planes. Apart from that, one can find only one mention of a group of German scouts crossing the lines. All conclusive fights took place inside occupied territory as a consequence of 9/10 frontline patrols between Montdidier and Moreuil, i.e. a 13.5km S to N straight line (see below). The deeper fight seems to have occurred not deeper than 10km German side. (Regarding mission types, they were not varied. Only 2 escort missions to be noted, all others being frontline patrols. As a matter fact, escort were indeed rare because protecting 2-seaters was part of patrol duties.)

[Linked Image]

So, actually, with the same AI for everyone, it is hard to get different behaviors. But I have my little idea by playing with targets. smile

Posted By: BuckeyeBob

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 05/19/20 01:31 PM

Great work, xjouve! OBD should consider hiring you as their resident French WWI expert.
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 05/26/20 03:03 PM

Thanks!

Working on global layers and I must admit regarding airfields, it is a complete mess! Some airfields are... well, 'overseas'! pilot

Here are the 87 ones for 1914.

[Linked Image]

Are there a list somewhere of WOFF airfields by region? That would save me time as I'm mainly working by region.
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theater (Questions & Progress) - 05/26/20 03:22 PM

OMG there is one there as well ^^

Hopefully, pilots are enjoying a nice warm water there! And, Corsican food is good! I'm pretty sure Sardinian food too. readytoeat

[Linked Image]
Posted By: JJJ65

Re: New theaters (development) - 05/26/20 03:25 PM

Quote
Are there a list somewhere of WOFF airfields by region? That would save me time as I'm mainly working by region.

Yes, you can try WOFFScenery/Period/year/Targets/...
Posted By: Shredward

Re: New theaters (development) - 05/26/20 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by xjouve
OMG there is one there as well ^^

Hopefully, pilots are enjoying a nice warm water there! And, Corsican food is good! I'm pretty sure Sardinian food too. readytoeat

[Linked Image]



I think that’s a base for the Sopwith Shark
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theaters (development) - 05/26/20 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by JJJ65
Quote
Are there a list somewhere of WOFF airfields by region? That would save me time as I'm mainly working by region.

Yes, you can try WOFFScenery/Period/year/Targets/...


Good idea!


Originally Posted by Shredward
Originally Posted by xjouve
OMG there is one there as well ^^

Hopefully, pilots are enjoying a nice warm water there! And, Corsican food is good! I'm pretty sure Sardinian food too. readytoeat

[Linked Image]



I think that’s a base for the Sopwith Shark


It looks like Freiburg (cf target file below). So, I've relocated it, and also updated the targets file.

Code
Freiburg
Freiburg
N41*08'08.6789
E7*50'10.7607
N41*7'12.4664
E7*52'40.7607
N41*8'14.3001
E7*49'55.7607
Fighter
Null
Null
Null
Null


I set coordinates here. But that's a guess. If someone knows more precisely where to locate it, please feel free to tell me.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Shredward

Re: New theaters (development) - 05/26/20 08:48 PM

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flugplatz_Freiburg
https://www.mil-airfields.de/germany/freiburg-airfield.html

I could translate it if you wish

Cheers,
shredward
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theaters (development) - 05/27/20 08:21 AM

Thanks Shredward! mil-airfields.de is an excellent website; I didn't know it.
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theaters (development) - 05/30/20 04:38 PM

I did all frontlines until 1918+9... But I realized that the game can't handle more than about 200 points (the frontline consists in a series of points). I had super precise frontlines, with 350+ points; all of them need to be reworked. Well, I started doing this job, and finished 1916+6 couple of minutes ago.

Additionally to frontlines, I've created from scratch target files for town, troops, forts, etc.; and relocated some from the game. All items being also included into global_layers.

Here's the frontline in the Verdun area in June 1916

[Linked Image]

I've decided to change the ingame map as well.

[Linked Image]






Posted By: Becker01

Re: New theaters (development) - 05/31/20 09:13 AM

Uff!
I hope you have enough energy for all the work and the details in context with so much other data.

Greetings!
Posted By: JJJ65

Re: New theaters (development) - 06/02/20 07:53 AM

Do you modify WOFF PE stock global layer files? If so, I could add the populated airfileds mod into it w/o any problems on the final.
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theaters (development) - 06/03/20 12:57 PM

Finished all frontlines. The only one that is too approximative is the one for 1918+11. Well, at least, for my taste.

I used the following map for this period. However, as can be seen, this is a global map, and surely lacks of precision.

[Linked Image]

I do have much better maps. However, the lines moved so much during the last weeks of the war that it would take ages to make something clean. Well, maybe they could be used to create some kind of late war campaign mods with frontlines moving everyday.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theaters (development) - 06/03/20 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by JJJ65
Do you modify WOFF PE stock global layer files? If so, I could add the populated airfileds mod into it w/o any problems on the final.


Great! I'm using populated airfields each time I'm creating a GL. However, I could have made mistakes.

Anyway, I'm not using stock GL but I'm creating them from scratch with new locations.
Posted By: JJJ65

Re: New theaters (development) - 06/04/20 05:49 AM

Originally Posted by xjouve

Anyway, I'm not using stock GL but I'm creating them from scratch with new locations.



Oh, that is really lot of work! Good luck and looking forward to the possibility to test you first periods.
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theaters (development) - 06/04/20 02:05 PM

Yes it is time consuming, but v1.00 is nearly done (without 1918+11). Forgot to create some periodical targets, so I have to. But it is mostly a matter of energy because when I realized that, I was about to release the mod. lol

Those targets are mandatory because the mod embarks modded mission files, which need them.

I'm trying to get things pretty much accurate regarding military strategies of countries involved, and also positions. But I'm not perfectly sure that it will work.

Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theaters (development) - 06/04/20 02:15 PM

So, I've also updated the inflight maps (again)

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

It might be difficult to get something better now. These are based on old Michelin Map (for the WW1 area only). With LC, rivers, frontlines, those maps are giving something more... You know where your are.

Moreover CFS3/WOFF roads are pretty well located, and they fit really well with LC. Now, the major roads on maps are also the roads that you see underneath your plane (I believe in most part).

I really would like to add much more roads on the ground, but even though I didn't try much, I quickly realized that it won't be easy.
Posted By: HarryH

Re: New theaters (development) - 06/04/20 03:40 PM

Those latest in-flight maps look great! I've just read through the last couple of pages of this thread. Your work is both fascinating and brilliant. Fancy finding an airfield placed so far out of position!

Once you get everything figured out, will your global layer mod be packaged up with all the various land classes, new front lines, etc?
Posted By: VonS

Re: New theaters (development) - 06/04/20 05:50 PM

@Xjouve, these latest in-flight maps are superb. So far, whenever I fly with your CLC landclass file instead of with stock terrain, I substitute in your older in-flight maps that indicate balloon and airfield positions, etc. (not the ver. 2 ones) - so I look forward to using these latest maps that indicate roads clearly too, their precision nicely compensating for lack of stock balloon/airfield indication. Also looking forward to any water map improvements (to wring out more fps from WOFF, as per my post here ).

Happy flying all,
Von S smile2
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theaters (development) - 06/05/20 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by HarryH
Those latest in-flight maps look great! I've just read through the last couple of pages of this thread. Your work is both fascinating and brilliant. Fancy finding an airfield placed so far out of position!

Once you get everything figured out, will your global layer mod be packaged up with all the various land classes, new front lines, etc?


Thanks for the kind words. At the moment, I've only included frontlines, targets, mission types and maps to the global layer mod.

Originally Posted by VonS
@Xjouve, these latest in-flight maps are superb. So far, whenever I fly with your CLC landclass file instead of with stock terrain, I substitute in your older in-flight maps that indicate balloon and airfield positions, etc. (not the ver. 2 ones) - so I look forward to using these latest maps that indicate roads clearly too, their precision nicely compensating for lack of stock balloon/airfield indication. Also looking forward to any water map improvements (to wring out more fps from WOFF, as per my post here ).

Happy flying all,
Von S smile2


Many thanks!! wink

The global layer mod embarks the B&W map from the screenshot above, but without ui.xml, therefore all items are displayed. smile
Posted By: VonS

Re: New theaters (development) - 06/07/20 07:08 AM

@Xjouve, have now tried out the big, global layer ver. 2.0 mod and it works wonderfully - no drops in FPS. Have also removed the ui.xml file and now I have 'dromes, balloons, factories, etc., nicely visible on the black-and-white map. I don't think I spotted the red line, however, only the old dotted line for the stock front lines... perhaps the red line is for a future ed. of the map... smile2

Thank you again for the excellent global layer update pack.

Von S
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theaters (development) - 06/07/20 02:20 PM

I'm glad you like it!

You have the updated frontline but it is true that by removing ui.xml, it brings back the dotted line display. So, I'll add a modded ui.xml in the next version with both red frontline display and all items visible. smile
Posted By: VonS

Re: New theaters (development) - 06/07/20 11:45 PM

Originally Posted by xjouve
I'm glad you like it!

You have the updated frontline but it is true that by removing ui.xml, it brings back the dotted line display. So, I'll add a modded ui.xml in the next version with both red frontline display and all items visible. smile



Greatly appreciated and looking forward to more developments with your excellent mods.

Von S smile2
Posted By: xjouve

Re: New theaters (development) - 06/09/20 05:09 PM

Finished a water shapefile for the Italian front.

Borders of watershapes are colored in black in this screenshot. The backgound consists in layers that served to locate -approximately- the necessary watershapes to assemble.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: RAF_Louvert

Re: New theaters (development) - 06/09/20 07:25 PM

.

Xav, it looks outstanding! I am excited to see how all that new water is going to look along the Italian Front in the sim! Thanks much for doing this AO, it is greatly appreciated.

Lou

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