A challenge?

I'd like to resolve, once and for all, the question of stuttering. Without getting into (whatever it is) that causes thread to go south.

So, a proposal, fair and square:

My big concerns about videos that prove no stuttering are that they are subjective - the show the subject in a favorable light (otherwise they wouldn't be posted), and that they are usually comparing apples to oranges, meaning they're not duplicating the test(s) that are known to show stuttering.

So, I'd like to propose a challenge to any/all that say they have no stutters. Let me describe my 'test methodology' for seeing the stuttering, you make a video proving it doesn't happen, and I'll publicly admit I was wrong. Simple as that.

The methodology I referred to will be described in detail; I have to go out at the moment, but I'm interested in whether there are any takers. I'll check back in later.

If you can run the sim and don't have stutters, this is your chance to "show the money". The 'proof of the pudding', as they say.

And to be clear, it doesn't just have to be one person - in fact, the more the merrier. What's the worst that could happen, you prove your point and get to see me eat crow?

So...who's game for a fair challenge?

I'm not interested in anyone "eating crow." I'm interested in helping people that are experiencing stutters resolving them. You seem more interested proving that they are there rather than finding the right settings to get rid of them. Nobody is doubting that some people are experiencing stutters. They are saying what to try to get rid of them.

If your point is you can find a micro stutter once in awhile for even a millisecond...I don't think anyone on the forum cares but you. Let me know when you are interested in resolving the stutters you say you are having so that the sim is enjoyable.

Did you try removing overclocks, as was suggested?

I am up for the challenge!
This is exactly what I have been asking for.
A standard, repeatable test.

This may help the Dev's locate the issue, if there is one

Just my 2 cents: I think the word or problem of stuttering should be defined and the Testing Methodology be the same for each Tester.

Exactly, and precisely what I'd had in mind. A fair challenge. That's all. (And yes, I also believe it would be good to have some empirical data, should the need arise).

I really appreciate your support and willingness to see other perspectives, as well as accepting a fair test.

If you don't wish to participate, no worries at all. Totally up to you.

I agree completely. The methodology will of course be prescribed and exactly the same test for anyone interested. (I did actually think it would be interesting to consider maybe having more than one, though). ANd you are correct, it would be best to have some definition of stuttering, which I will certainly work on. As a start - for me, 'stutter' is when the otherwise fluid motion of the graphics display is interrupted by a pause of any recognizable length. Of course, I'd have to include that there are certainly varying degrees of both duration and frequency - but primarily if it disrupts fluid playback - never mind actual frame rate, mind you - then it's stutter.

The biggest reason for my definition is that I'd much rather play/watch anything at even 25 frames which is consistent, than I would have 60 FPS and it dips down low enough, often enough, to disrupt the "suspension of disbelief" or "immersion". I think that's a reasonable way to look at it; moreover I believe that's the very thing bothering most of those complaining about stutters.

Thanks for your input.

I will be curious what the "test standards" will be and how it will be implemented to assure that the CPU/GPU load is exactly the same for everyone. It would seem obvious that it would have to be a scenario. And with a scenario much of the CPU load - that is taken up by the Campaign Engine - won't be there.
That being said I will be curious to give my machine a test run.

I'm curious if kksnowbear even owns WOFF. If someone just plunked down some cash and they weren't happy with the performance, why would they be uninterested in working with people who offer to help fix their problem? Instead the focus on proving that a problem exists...when obviously people already understand that some folks have stutter issues. That's why they are offering to help in the first place.

On top of that, he hasn't specified exactly when or where he gets the stutters. In fact, he says he'll "eat crow" if someone passes his arbitrary test. Wouldn't you think his first interest would be in getting the settings? Sorry, but I feel there is an entirely different motive here and it has nothing to do with helping anyone.

I did ask if we could not turn the thread south, please. I'm offering a fair test, and at least some folks seem to have no problem with it. It's friendly, let's please keep it that way.

(The following should not only adequately describe the test, but also dismiss any concerns about whether I actually own the sim.) To be completely accurate, I have purchased/flown every version of OFF and WOFF since the very first (free) version.

Obviously, you'll need to create/enlist a German pilot so that you wind up in the same location, time and aerodrome as pictured. I hope the screenshot shows sufficient detail for that. Set up the same scenario as shown. For the time being, I am not concerned with how low (or high) your settings are, or any other configuration details, CPU/GPU loading or anything else. Just want to see how your video looks if you fly this QC.

A couple notes:

1. This is a QC, with only two planes, so - if I've understood, it should be less subject to stutters than, say, an actual mission (due to absence of other units/aircraft etc - though I welcome correction if this is wrong).

2. Your video must show your entire loading and start sequence, looking toward the location of the approaching DH2 (he will start right at your 12, same alt). You can edit out most of the startup if you want, but you can't edit the video down so that the start isn't shown. The start of your video must match the engagement described herein, with regard to distance and relative starting location for both craft.

3. In all my trials so far, the DH2 will bank to his right, moving across to your left. Follow him, and close slowly without firing. When you are within range such that you can hit consistently, give a short burst or two. He will begin evasive maneuvers; follow him down, keeping him in sight at all times (as much as possible).

That's essentially it, though ideally you follow him - without actually downing him - letting him evade a little, settle down, then get in another short burst, and repeat.

I do have to reserve the right to modify the test if, for example, I discover I omitted some detail that is crucial to the test, or if needed to gather more detail about anything seen (so, for instance, it might be useful to identify the cause and potential correction).

Okay - when will you post your video?

I would like to see a video with stutters before I try to replicate.


Can you provide the details for this...


Never mind - Jasta 2 Home field Harlebeke Jan 1918

I am having Issues with this Game since over 2 Years. I have tried all possible Solutions, do this, try that, but that was all rubbish.

I have tried to work with this Game, you can believe me. I have put nearly 1000 Euros into a new Computer, I have bought every Add-On for WOFF, because WOFF is the BEST WW1 Sim out there, I have even bought a new Operating System at last (Win10) for 124 Euros, and THE ONE AND ONLY REASON was to get this Game free of Stutters.

But... nothing helped. WOFF 3 runs more worse than WOFF 2 on my System.

What else could I say? I have tried dozens (if not One Hundred) of Combinations between the Game and my Video-Card- Drivers, I have bought the full Version of Process Lasso (which is indeed a very good Program, also for other Games), but...nothing helped.


I am working very hard 4 Days a Week (Construction), every Day up to 11 Hours, so my time is limited to the Weekend. And EVERY WEEKEND since the last 2 Years I was trying to tweak my System for this Game. Of Course, I made something else from time to time (I am a very big Collector of Music). Sometimes I was so frustrated from WOFF, that my thoughts were going into strange Ways (you know what I mean, the Garbage Can was already open).


My English is not good enough to describe what I am really thinking of this Game, the poorly Optimisation of this outdated Engine (OFF Phase 3 was running much way better!!!!) and especially about some Users, who think they are some "WOFF-Gods" (sorry for this Word, I do not know how to describe this).

I totally agree with kksnowbear. Players like me, who have massive Problems with this Game, are attacked, more or less, as "Computer-Idiots" and "People who have no Idea how to tweak a Game".

Let me tell you a small Example:

At Christmas last Year I bought some new Hardware:
ASUS Z170-K Motherboard
Intel i-7 6700k at 4 GHZ
8 GB DDR4 RAM

Together with my ZOTAC GTX 970 I think this is a pretty good average System. Everything is working fine, no Problems so far o my System. That's a Fact.

With this Hardware I made the following Tweaks:

Rise of Flight : 2 Days = runs smooth as Hell
OFF Phase 3: 3 Days = runs smooth as Hell
IL2 Sturmovik 1946: 1 Week = runs smooth as Hell
IL2 BoS: 2 Days = runs smooth as Hell

and...

WOFF: Since Christmas no Difference. And before Christmas nearly 2 Years the same #%&*$# on my old System.

So what are some Guys are trying to tell me? That this is a perfectly optimised Game? Are you kidding me?

My next and VERY LAST Step will be a G-Sync Monitor for 500-600 Euros, and if this doesn't help either, the Game will be thrown into my Garbage Can, and I will leave this Place for good.

This Game is badly optimised. And nobody can tell me the Opposite. That is my Point!

OFF Phase 3 was much, much better because Players could optimize their Graphics with the CFS3.Config.Exe.

And that is the Culprit from WOFF: This File is missing.

Again, that's my Point. Hate me, or not.

Andy73, you're right 100 %
I feel the same.
Those players who said they have no stutters, should prove here.

I don't think anybody hates you Andy. Nor is anyone attacking you or calling you a "computer idiot." All I see are people saying that the sim can run smoothly and they are willing to help with ideas. I agree that your system should be able to run WOFF just fine. Something clearly isn't happy if you are getting stutters.

I do have a g-sync monitor and it is true that V-sync, the software solution to try to stop "screen tearing" adds a load to the GPU and is known to cause micro stutters. Its possible that is the culprit but I would hesitate to have to spend that kind of cash to find out - although I must say G-Sync monitors are well worth the cost simply for any gamer.

I understand that you have tried a crap ton of stuff, so I apologize if my suggestions have already been tried, but have you tried turning off V-sync (I know you will probably get screen tears) just to see if that helps reduce the stuttering problem?

Have you tried turning off all of your anti-virus software before running WOFF? Avast gave me issues a year or so back and when I turned it off, things got better quickly.

Is any of your hardware overclocked? Video card or CPU? Sometimes that causes issues. Pure stab in the dark Andy, but just trying to help.

It's entirely possible that because the CFS3Config.exe is missing, it's causing your problems, however that file is missing from every WOFF installation and so it would seem plausible that a much larger segment of the users would be reporting the same issue.

You mentioned using Process Lasso so it seems to me you are probably an above average computer user. I'm happy to work with anyone that is willing to go through the process of elimination.

Please if you are not participating in the testing process, find another thread.

Thank you.

Hellshade, see my Picture from old OFF Phase 3:


You know what I mean? This was the Key to optimize OFF on our Systems. But the Devs took that away. Why??

They simply said: "We optimize this Game for you!" But please Guys, not with this old Engine! Let the Players optimize it for themselves!!! Gamers know how to tweak such a Config.Exe!!! Every System is different. So what is running good on 5 Systems, could run very bad on the 6th or 7th System.

Everything could be so simple!

Andy, PLEASE find another thread.

Wow...really? You really said that? Forget it then. Go play what you want or like then.
Yes, yes Stache I am leaving.

Okay, I'm going to leave this Place, too. It's always the Same: Players with Problems are not welcome in your wonderful WOFF-World.
You do not understand me.

Very Sad.

I'll do my best to do that, although I've really never done a video. So bear with me. TBH, I am happy to accommodate your request, but the idea is to see a machine that *does not* stutter, not one that does

Anyway, it's no problem, but please be patient. I just got back in (again) and now must have dinner and 'family time', so it will be later or tomorrow before I can do as you asked. (I promise I'll have no trouble showing you the stuttering, for what it's worth).

As for the others, please, everyone - I don't want the thread locked again, please keep it civil?

Stache: i see in your specs that youve got your CPU and GPU oc,ed have you tryed Stock clocks to see the results 1st?
apologies if you have ..best of luck

Andy: i feel for you i really do it looks like youve tried everything within your power,i also agree that the cfs3 config.exe could be used to give more "optimization" to the player..i hope you eventually get sorted

Bronx : i have no stutters,i dont do videos ive never done one in my life,i wouldnt know where to start TBH but..i dont need to "prove" anything
WOFF works perfectly fine for me and countless others,if it didn,t the forum would be awash with posts (i would be the first one to complain believe me)

I really hope you guys sort out YOUR problems with WOFF i really do..anyway best of luck... im out

Edit: Andy players with problems are always welcomed here,people can only advise to the best of their knowledge pal

KKsnowbear..I commend you on your efforts to nail down the cause of yours and others stutters i truely hope you find your answers ,i also hope that things can be kept civil,the very best of luck with your findings

Anyway like i said best of luck guys..il leave this thread well alone now

DukeIronHand, yes, really.
Just prove it that you have no stutterings.
Can you do that ? I'm affraid you can't

Thank you - but really the process is to SEE the results both ways.
With stutters and without.
Without both nothing will be learned.

Adger - my Video is the same as Bronxx and it is OC'ed by default.
As for the CPU again, the MB Bios did that by default and it only OC'd from 4 to 4.2.

You sir are a real weinie.
I have zero to prove to the likes of you but just to humor you for the last time please pay attention.
I don't get stutters. Understand. I never said I never get them but not enough to be a concern.
Examples: Two dogfights flying with J11 in WOFF 3. Nvidia settings maxed out/WOFF at default.
First dogfight at low level vs Sopwith Triplanes I had one stutter. If I wasn't glued to the screen I would have missed it it was so fast.
Dogfight #2 again with J11 on a cloudy day over the front. HiRes skins and 7 Alb's vs 6 Nieuports. Started high ended low. NO stutter at all. If you choose not to believe me I could really care less.
If there is an "Ignore" feature on this forum please click my name.

Come'on - Quote each other and start your own thread.

Please stop cluttering up this one.

Thank you.

Hi Stache,My GPU came factory oc,ed...it creates extra heat compared with stock clock,which in turn could possibly lead to other things including stuttering in WOFF and other titles
I had issues with artifacts ,random stutterings big framerate fluctuations in AAA titles (GTA 5) amongst them.
Also the same could be said of CPU,s been OC,ed..i put my GPU at stock and believe it or not the titles ran better
I have more than adequate cooling in my system.I think a lot of people think "Overclocking gets me a faster system"..it doesn,t always work like that pal
Even if the DEVS gave advice i believe their 1st advice to Anyone would be to return to stock speeds on your GPU,CPU and memory,and try from there.
like ive said apologies to any and all who have tried at stock clocks..and i sincerely hope that all of you with issues find your solution..very best of luck guys

Edit:Stache..please please try everything at stock clock speed (GPU,CPU and mem) and see if things improve good luck

Okay, Duke.
You're happy with WOFF, but won't show us the prove.
How comes ?

@kknowsbear the test you setup has autoweather - that is too random - weather should be set, please choose one and advise

@Adger - to date I have not observed any stuttering on my system, so I should not need to do anything to improve. Will just do initial testing as is. And there is now way to un-OC the video card - it comes that way from the factory, this card costs more than a "standard" card because of that.

When you have no Stutters at all, Stache, what are you doing in this Thread? You could ignore this whole Stuff, lean yourself back, relax in your Pilot-Seat and enjoy the Game. I do not want to read your "I don't have any Stutters"-Postings, because it's boring. You don't have Stutters? Then you are a lucky User, it's just simple as that. But keep it for yourself, I do not want to know this.


You have attacked me, so I make the same with you.


This Place is totally #%&*$# up for me.

Andy, if they have no stutters at all, they should prove, not just talk and give advices.

Will you guys listen to yourselves for a moment. You guys are in the process of destroying what I love most about this forum. I mean seriously, you are on the verge of cursing at each other over a computer game. Andy73 and all, I feel your pain and understand your frustrations and yes I have stutters from time to time as well. Honestly, I don't think you are ever going to find the cause of the stutters. Can we not all just agree that not everyone has the same experience with WOFF? Remember, if someone has a complaint or problem with WOFF it isn't a personal attack, it's just a game for Heaven's sake. I know now I'm going to be attacked for saying what I've said, but this forum has been so great because we don't behave like this.

+1

Seriously, I am out now of this whole Stuff. I do not expect any Help from anyone, and I haven't expected it, to be honest. Good Luck with your further Discussions. Andy

Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm sorry to see you go.

Lots of stuttering here also.After some testing of various things I noticed that dropping resolution down doesn't seem to change the resolution in game which is odd.I had set 4K resolution before with no issues but just now I even went down as low as 800x600 and still fps drops down to 45 and stutters.

So then I opened WOFFtoolbox and noticed my resolution was set at 4096x2160 which I read is 4K HD where 4K normal is 3840x2160.Went back in game and its still 4K and when I checked toolbox it reverted to 4096x2160 again.

Anyone have an idea to allow me to set a lower resolution? Also,maybe people with stutters are getting this same issue?

Here is my video



Eager to see yours kknowsbear.

Could have picked an easier plane to fly - first time in a DR1.
Really need to use the rudder in this puppy.

I'll get it done as soon as possible. In the meantime, I'd honestly have to admit that yours seems a helluva lot more 'stable' than mine's sever been. So that's good news.

A few points, though:
- A fairly large stutter right at about :56, and this is very similar to the ones I get a lot (more) of.
- You use some aiming mechanism/sight that I don't, and I'm wondering if this has to do with less stutter (because it means less to 'draw' on the screen. I hope my video will clarify this.
- There are times when the DH2 is out of sight, and I wonder if this might also mean less stuttering. I apologize if I wasn't explicit enough, but the idea is to keep him in view as much as possible.
- You let him go past you, but oddly he always turns left *well* before coming close to me (of course I realize there's nothing guaranteeing it to be identical - yet it's *always* the same when I fly it). I hope to show in my video that one of the most prominent stutters is just as he moves to my left, as opposed to yours where he comes straight at you. Maybe this is also a difference - to your point about tests being standardized and identical.

Also, to your earlier point, I could specify weather, but TBH the weather never seems to make a difference, nor workshop or GPU settings, or anything else. Always the exact same result.

Let me see how I fare with making a video.

And thank you so very much for your willingness to try this.

Incidentally, regarding the differences I mentioned above: I"ve often wondered if *this* didn't explain why some see stutters and others don't. Think about it - the different views, zooming, etc and so forth. I personally believe that these differences may well explain things - hence my desire to have this test.

Banjoman - thank you so much for your honesty and willingness to hear what is being said. You are 100% correct, it is NOT a personal attack, and it totally sucks that it's sometimes taken that way.

Thank you again.

Stache - may I assume you are using ShadowPlay to record? I looked briefly and didn't see a watermark (a la Fraps or what-have-you)

I desperately do not wish to have this deteriorate into a discussion about recording methods, problems, etc...but I thought I should at least try to do mine like you did.

(Of course, it means installing the [stupid] GeForce Experience...I so hate 'helper' apps, and I diligently avoid running more and more 'shovelware' BS on my machines...)

Hi,

Actually that was not a stutter at :56, That was me pressing the HAT switch. (Which does not work when using TrackIR.)
Then I have button on the stick to change the function of the hat switch on my joystick from its normal HAT mode function to Zoom in / Zoom out.
Will be happy to re-record without doing that.
It is just habit part of my normal flying.

I do that using the Thrustmaster Target Scripting software.

The Gun Site mode is toggling the F6 - Standard WOFF
Will be more than happy to re-record without doing that function.

I am sorry for my poor piloting skills, I really was doing the best I could to follow the plane..
As mentioned I am brand new to flying the DR1.

I was hoping that following the DH2 for over a minute in a circle would be enough to satisfy this.

Will be more than happy to do any additional testing.

Yes record with ShadowPlay at 1080.

I did have the WOFF Z mode turned on to show the FPS

If you want me to use FRAPS - Let me know and I will install it.


Yes he does turn to the left, but it does not happen before he reaches me.
If I stay a bit more to the right it is easier for me to keep him in site.

Well, bad luck...I reinstalled drivers, just so I could include GeForce Experience (and thus, use ShadowPlay)...and of course the 'clean install' was kind enough to go ahead and move every-d@mn icon on my desktop all over the place while it refreshed during install...GRRRR...

Anyhow, none of this helped, because although I feel as if I'm doing it properly, it doesn't look as if ShadowPlay is actually recording any video (??) I tried a few things, surely I'm doing something wrong...but nothing so far

Too bad because the stutters during my recording attempts were *way* obvious. I thought I had caught some doozies there.

Maybe we could use FRAPS? I have (had) a license for it and don't recall it being a PITA like this is...

Thanks for your comments so far, I've looked them over and appreciate your time with this.

One other thing I did notice, though it might not matter at all: Your video shows a "Quick Scenario", where I am running Quick Combat.

Thanks again. It might be tomorrow before I can try again, but I'm very glad to get this chance to do some testing like this. Who knows? May help find the answer after all. And I'd be *thrilled*, for certain. I think WOFF is everything that it's said to be, just the stutters make it totally distracting to me.

Respectfully, FRAPS records to the hard disk while you are playing which often causes a drop in frame rates. This would probably accentuate the stutter issue that you are already having. That said, even an imperfect look at what you are experiencing is more helpful than word descriptions alone.

Yes, I did save the Quick Combat as a Quick Scenario.
Thought I needed to to be able to redo it multiple times.

I see that is not the case and have flown it as a QC while testing the DH2 turning to the left.
Will be happy to rerecord as a QC.
Or you could try it as as QS.

Do you have FRAPS installed now?
I would have to use the Free version of FRAPS - which unfortunately only records for 30 seconds from what I read.

ShadowPlay has a drop in FPS also.
I've not payed close attention how much - 20 -30 maybe.

For what it's worth, here is my attempt at duplicating your quick combat scenario. It is recorded with ShadowPlay on 'medium' quality setting. The scenario ran quite smooth for me, which I expected with only two planes in the sky (I have had good luck running WOFF on my machine, usually pretty silky, for whatever reason).

https://youtu.be/mau5OwzetIE

kknowsbear

your system specs are pretty similar to mine, cept a 780 instead of a 980

I actually do have a GSYNC monitor (Acer XB270H), as well as a Core i7 6700k, 16G of RAM, a "factory super-clocked" 780i w/ 3G...and I boot to a freaking-stupid-fast Intel 750 NVMe SSD, and run WOFF from a equally freaking-stupid-fast Samsung 950 NVMe SSD.

One item I noticed, both you an Bronxx are not running WOFF from your OS drive, which I am.
Just an observation, not any sort of a conclusion.
My secondary drive is only for Storage.


77scout - what are your system specs and what drive do you run WOFF from?

Here's a thought (and I apologize if its already been brought up). Sound. We're seeing lots of folks with good rigs claiming smooth gameplay, and others with similar rigs not. Could it be a difference in the way our integrated (or maybe not integrated) sound processing is handled. I rarely see sound discussed anymore, and I could swear on my old rig sound had something to do with stutters in WOFF. My new motherboard came with an integrated Soundblaster chip\software\whatever

In the end, sound processing also has to be coordinated by the CPU in concert with video output. Could the differences in our motherboard sound components also be part of the stuttering puzzle? One CPU is fat and happy with its integrated sound components, the other maybe not so much?

Just an idea...

" nice " white triangles, Stache
Ask DukeIronHand / HellShade, they will help you with some advices.

Your sheer stupidity is making me go back on my hope to just ignore your blatant idiocy.
He, and others, just try to help your lame arse and that is all you have to say?
Ok. Your gone. Bye.

Hi Bronxx, Yes I never said I did not have the triangles.
However, this thread is about stuttering?
Any comments there?

Shadowplay does indeed have a small drop in FPS but FRAPS is more significant. I'm not saying using FRAPS is wrong, you would probably just want to take into consideration that its a significantly bigger drain on FPS than Shadowplay is.

http://www.gamersnexus.net/game-bench/1561-shadowplay-vs-fraps-vs-gvr-recording-benchmark

Thanks i was figuring as much.
Did a cursory look for a bench mark but did not find that.
As I noted there was a big hit with Bandicam, though I -was- using the free version of it.
Guess it is Shadowplay from now on.

Hi Bucksnort,

Could be. Anything/Everything is still suspect. I know my MB has a built-in Creative® Sound Core3D™ Quad-Core Audio Processor.

GM guys, just getting up and about this morning. Off to church in a bit, so I'll have to post more later, but for now:

Stache - Sorry, believe it or not I guess I'm stupid and didn't realize the QS was how one saves a QC. Haven't played that much (stutters too annoying) and didn't get that far. Maybe I'll try that, though I'm given to doubt it causes problems - just something I noticed. TBH at this point, anything that's different makes me wonder, just because this seems such an elusive issue.

On the subject of sound - this has been raised many times, and although I find the claim that on-board sound causes these issues to be rather dubious IMHO (for reasons I'll not go into here) - I still took Hellshade's advice of using Q to suspend sound at one point in the past. It made zero difference.

77Scount - thank you very much for your 'entry'. Are you also using ShadowPlay? Once again, as with Stache, I'd have to admit that generally yours looks much smoother than mine, which both makes me curious and crazy, because it becomes apparent that there are some differences. That said, I do see (what *looks* like) a fairly big pause (stutter) at :30, which again is a lot like what I see only much more of them.

Particularly when I pursue the DH2 in a dive, as he evades, my. scenario. runs. like. this. Hitch, hitch, hitch, easily 4-5 times in the first dive.

I'll work on getting FRAPS installed this afternoon. I was perfectly prepared to use ShadowPlay , but it doesn't work...and that's after I took the time to re-install drivers (and my desktop gets all screwed up). Now I have to troubleshoot that, just I can troubleshoot this? I mean, think about it...

Yes, I suspect FRAPS will eat more frames, but:

- I don't think it matters what recording method is used, so long as it's the same for everyone running the test.
- As for frame rates, this issue (stutters) is *not* about low frame rates. It's about sudden drops in frame rates, which typically will rise right back up. It is as I described earlier - I'd rather have 25 FPS that's smooth and evenly distributed than 60+ that stutters or 'hitches' down to a visible pause every few seconds as you fly. You can't aim, or lead, or really even keep up with an opponent like that.

I do have to be honest - even this test is frustrating me now, because all this cr@p takes time...I get so very little free time as it is, and it's maddening to have to spend it troubleshooting a game instead of enjoying it. Surely you folks understand that, after years of trying all the stuff discussed, you just want to give up. The last thing you need is some joker telling you "It's obviously your machine, and unless you're willing to try what I say, you are wrong."

I do thank all those who are participating, though. Never mind the actual outcome, I believe this is truly helpful.

for some reason I post stuff and am always overlooked.Guys,may I ask you to go into WOFFtoolbox and see what resolution you are set at? No matter what I do my resolution is staying pegged at 4096x2160 and I am getting horrid performance.Just now it dropped into 15fps then 40 for awhile and then 59 and finally back to 60.Maybe this is why some others are having issues?

I always have weird issues in WOFF like I am missing the directX9 folder in toolbox as shown here in Bucksnort's post "SweetFX with WOFF 3 and/or Win 10".

So I ask again,does anyone know how to set resolution manually in a file like other games as what I set in workshop or toolbox is not working.

While I think Shadowplay is the better recording solution, I agree that if you have to "troubleshoot this in order to troubleshoot that" it can become very frustrating indeed. And yes, as long as everyone is using the same methodology, at least then you are making apples to apples comparison as best as possible. Obviously with so many different configurations and hardware set ups, it's impossible to get exactly apples to apples comparisons.

I think everyone understands that its incredibly frustrating to have stutters and have not yet found the solution in your particular case even after you've spent significant time working on it. That's why so many people offered to help troubleshoot. It's equally frustrating to say "Hey, I've had stutters and here's what I did to get rid of them" and basically be called a liar....when all you are trying to do is help.

Wolfstriked, that's an interesting Point. Believe it or not, but I was working today with exactly the same Problem...

This is what I've found out:

I have changed my Resolution in my NVIDIA Control-Panel, that was the only Way to change the Resolution in WOFF. Played with different Resolutions, but no Success.

After that, I changed the Refreshrate for my Monitor from 60 HZ down to 50 HZ.

That means, my FPS are now locked at 50.

I also changed the Pre-Rendered Frames from 1 up to 3, V-Sync is ON in Nvidia-Control Panel.

In Workshop Settings I have left everything as it is.

Believe it or not, but the Game runs very good now, not perfect at all, it surely needs some more Tweaks, but my Eyes were getting very big, when I saw the good Results.

I don't know how and I don't know why, but this whole Problem has something to do with my Graphics-Card and the NVIDIA-Driver. It's definetely NOT the CPU.

Some Guys might want to try this out, as always, I can not promise if this will help, but in my Case it made a Difference, though!

Yes I just changed my desktop to 800x600 and went into WOFF and that was the resolution.Game had same FPS drops though so its not the resolution on my end.

Agreed - if you can get FRAPS going, use it for now.

However - having issues with Shadowplay could be another indicator.
I believe Bronxx also reported the inability to get Shadowplay to work.

My Suggestion on my Problem is, that changing the Refreshrate from 60 HZ down to 50 HZ has helped a lot for me. Also Pre-Rendered Frames seems to be something the Game couldn't handle in my Case. Changing from 1 to 3 made definetely a Difference...

What are your system specs?

Yes, if your resolution is pegged too high, you will absolutely have stutters, especially when you turn because now your graphics card has to push all those new pixels. I'm running a 780 ti with 3GB on it and even I don't run 4k. I run at 2.5K x 1440. Great suggestion for people to check Wolfstrike.

Yes resolution does wonders in other games but not in WOFF for me.Its something my pc cant handle like for example with Falout4 I was getting 40 fps no matter the resolution and then I stumbled upon a guide that said to lower shadow quality and god ray quality and instantly pegged at 60fps.

My PC is a 3570k running at 4.4 and a GTX980ti.I have a feeling that its my cpu that is the culprit here as the 3570k came out in 2012.The newer I7's say same speeds but I have a feeling they are just a smoother running cpu but am afraid to upgrade for fear of a zero fps increase.Gonna try to run my cpu at clock speeds now to see if there is any stability improvements.

I have posted my Nvidia Control Panel settings before. You may wish to look at the Texture Filter Quality setting as well. I have mine set to High Performance. I don't notice any quality loss but it got rid of a few minor stutters for me when I first switched it away from High Quality. Hope that helps and glad to see you are making some progress.

For most people , especially when running a 4k is not to run on supersampling.
Hellshade did you set the Vsync in Woff on, off or driver controlled.

edit I think posting a sreenshot is the best way to get to the problem or just copy/paste to your own as a good base to start from, pity that most refuse to do that or give an answer like I have an i5 cpu.

I have it set to driver controlled Dutch. That seems to work best. And oh yes, if someone is running 4k resolution with 8x Supersampling...it's probably going to have FPS issues, unless you have a shine new 1080 Pascal based Nvidia GPU, which I hear outperforms both the Titan X and even a pair of GTX 980s in SLI mode. Gotta get me one of those monsters when they come out!

1080!
I really had to squeeze, almost force, my 970 into the tower I have now. Remember being surprised at how big the thing was when I took it out of the box - reminded me of a brick.
The 1080 capable CP may be my retirement gift in 2 1/2 years ..course by then it will probably be a 3080 and comes with its own generator to power it.

Just back in from church and have to eat, but very quickly: After lunch I hope I can actually make a video.

As for resolution, consider: I have a 780 3G card, and a GSync monitor - and I'm only running 1920x1080 (both desktop and in-game). Should be more-than-adequate.

I do not believe resolution is the 'magic bullet'.

I agree. There may not be a magic bullet. I had to go after stutters incrementally. I'm new to nVidia and had major stuttering with my 970 when I initially tried to create a profile just recently. And the progress I made was mostly in nVidia Inspector. I was reading articles and would find things that I had in conflict, things that Inspector lets you set anyway you want even though it can create conflicts. There was one setting (a filter, I think) that when enabled with a certain kind of AA I was using, created a strobe-light stuttering effect...it was ridiculous.

And I still can't use Antialiasing - Transparency Multisampling or Supersampling to go after the little bit of shimmering I get, as I take a huge FPS hit, which I'm guessing means I've probably got something else enabled that is butting heads with it.

So I'm really interested in Stache's Inspector settings at both the Global and CFS3 level, if you would be so kind to post screen prints, Stache

I'm soaking up Hellshade's right now also...thank you.

Hellshade: Do you also use Inspector, or just Control Panel and leave everything else default behind the scenes?

Well that's just it. There is no single "Magic Bullet" that resolves stuttering for everyone because there are many different factors that can cause it to happen. That's why folks offer up various ideas.

And I agree. With your settings and hardware, resolution isn't going to be the issue. For others, it is.

@Bucksnort. I don't use Nvidia Inspector. I just use the Control Panel and leave everything at default that's "behind the scenes."

I hope you don't mind me posting my inspector settings when you're asking someone else to do it. I just find it very interesting discussion that I want to join.

Because I use a boatload of MODS and like to max out my eye candy, I do get micro-stutters which are occasionally few millisecond interruptions in certain locations and sometimes during dogfights, but the trade off is worth it and doesn't detract from my immersion at all.

This is probably NOT related directly to your stuttering issues, but folks might find very helpful.

Time Compression can turn WOFF into a slide show regardless of how awesome your rig is. I doubt even Stache's rig can run at 8X time compression (let alone 16X) over the front during 1918 without losing some major frame rates and getting some stutters.

You can edit the simulation file to set what the Max compression rate you would like to be, based on your rigs ability to handle it. I brought mine all the way down from 16, which is the default max, to just "3" because it seems like even under heavy stress, I can run at 3X time compression and keep FPS above 45 and a silky smooth experience.

My apologies for the slight derail of the thread, but it is certainly a performance related change many might find useful.

CPU is an i5 4670K Quad Core 3.4GHZ (mildly overclocked to 4.0GHz)
GPU is a GeForce GTX770 Superclocked with 4GB memory
1920x1080 resolution on my monitor
I am running from the 'C' drive, which is an SSD drive, so should be fast access times.

I would say my system is good, but not as good as some people that are having stutters.

I did get a vid-card with lots of memory. Maybe that is helping me?

I have never messed much with the NVidia settings, as it's too complicated for me.

Thank you, OldHat.

77_Scout, don't know if you caught it, but I did see enough of your video to notice a stutter at :30. Is it just me? (BTW your GPU is also a 'superclocked' model, so that would tend toward ruling out overclocking as being an issue - except I see what looks like stutter, so very up in the air)...

Also, several here have mentioned having stutters as well. Hellshade acknowledged stutters during the first few moments unless you look around and wait for scenery to load (that's not intended as a quote, so please don't flame).

OldHat has acknowledged "I do get micro-stutters which are occasionally few millisecond interruptions in certain locations and sometimes during dogfights, but the trade off is worth it..."

There were other in this and the one that got locked as well. I think Bucksnort said "The only stutters I'm seeing now are when my hard drive light is on, so for me the next step is an SSD drive to probably eliminate a good chunk of that.

Point is, guys, you can't say you have no stutters. If they're not interfering with your own immersion, or you've learned to live with them, or you don't mind looking around while textures load etc - that's fine, perfectly your prerogative.

But, please (I'm asking) - don't be so quick to find fault in those who say there are stutters, because they aren't as willing to accept it as you are perhaps. And please, be accurate. Again, you can't say "I have no stutters" then turn around and say "I only have stutters when..."

Please? Again, guys, I'm just asking. No one needs to get hostile. No one's calling anyone a liar, we're just saying that being willing to accept stutters is not the same as not having any.

Anyway, I finally did get a video - and what a pain that wound up being. First, FRAPS would crash every time during the transition from loading screen to game - so, contrary to my own rule I'm afraid, it's an 'air start'. But, it's OK because it still shows the stutter. Also, I soon discovered my stupid TrackIR wasn't working at all (come on, really..??!!), so I bailed in short order - but you can still see very well the stutters; in fact, there's a GIGANTIC one right at about 1:03. That one's huge, but there are others.

Sorry it's not a great video but it does what you asked - shows clearly what I'm talking about. And, for the record, yes, I used EVGAs Precision utility to make sure my card was clocked to 'stock' settings for a GTX780 (per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nvidia_graphics_processing_units#GeForce_700_Series - that is, 863 base clock vs the 974 it runs at 'default').

No difference. Not that I honestly expected there would be. Don't get me started.

My video has about 14 minutes left to upload. I only did it "half-sized" in FRAPS, but it's still 1G+. I'm not very experienced with video-making...maybe I should be doing something different?

To further the point above, I've already logged another several hours on this, and that's just to post here, then capture and post a video proving my stutters...no wonder people give up.
[i][/i]

OK, well, here it is:

https://youtu.be/XIuEd19eOi8

I agree there might be a brief stutter there; it's hard to tell for sure but I'll say yes, a tiny video 'hesitation'. I note that the video is only about one second into the flight at that point, so possibly just the vid-card getting up to speed (textures being loaded into the vid-memory or something?).

So FRAPS is crashing, TrackIR isn't working and shadowplay doesn't function but it can't possibly be your machine is part of the issues. Got it. But please, there is no need for you to get hostile. You just can't say that your machine is not the problem and then list one thing after another that it can't do. That's all I'm saying.

I see nothing further that I can be of assistance with here. If microstutters were ruining my sim experience, I'd be the first to say so and ask for help. I'd also be the last to tell the people who were kind enough to go out of their way and spend their time helping me that they need to remember that really, they are wrong. Especially if I was admitting there were a bunch of other problems my rig was having. Best wishes on your quest.

Hellshade

I've asked several times if we could keep this civil. Those things all have issues on my machine for two reasons, neither having anything to do with WOFF's issue:

1. I just installed them and have zero experience using them (the FRAPS license was bought for my kids years ago).

2. I haven't spent any time or effort trying to make them work, or work better. I'm' sure there are reasons they have problems - I did eventually get a video done, after all. But, by comparison, I've been fiddling with everything possible to get rid of stutters for a long, long time.

Neither of things has anything to do with WOFF issues or that my machine is otherwise perfectly sound (as evidenced in that everything else I do with it seems to work just fine, including several other games I played from time to time).

I'm sorry my pointing out that even you acknowledged stutters has clearly upset you; I'm just citing what yourself and others said about it, that's all. Once again, it's not personal, and I really wish it weren't taken that way.

It's not personal. Clearly you have other issues on your machine. I'm just citing what you said. You can't say that you do have other things not working and then turn around and say machine configuration issues aren't part of the WOFF problem.

And now that we know that, it makes me want to apply your very same logic. You claim that you can run other sims just fine. Prove it. Post videos of other sims flying without any stutters AT ALL under the exact conditions that I tell you too. That's the only way we will know, according to you.

Please list your other flight sims so I can start making a list of exactly what you need to make videos of in order to prove to the forum that you have absolutely zero stuttering issues on them and therefore the problem must be WOFF only. Let me know if the request sounds unreasonable at all when someone is telling you that that's what you need to do.

Yes, well, unfortunately - for the purpose of this 'challenge', that's a stutter. You could very well be right about the GPU and/or loading textures. But, in the end (and I really don't wish to put too fine a point on it) that is the kind of thing that this entire debate is about.

I think some have it more (or more severe) than others - again, your video and Stache's do seem more smooth than mine in general.

But if we have to put the results into containers labeled, plainly, "stutter" and "no stutter", while laying aside what some people are willing to overlook, there seem to be more that would go into the stutter box, than the no stutter box.

Kksnowbear, please don't lump everybody together when you make generalizations. I've never said that I don't get stutters in any thread. I have never played a recent PC game with 0 (micro) stutters because I always will push my settings as high as they can go.

Try with these Workshop settings:





Then look at the thread of sweetfx and properly disable game AA through NoMultisampling=1 in both files.

Then go to nVidia control panel and turn everything "OFF" with override application setting. OFF does not mean "application controlled", it means turn it OFF. Turn vsync on with or without triplebuffering.

That is the most minimalistic settings I can think of. If your stutters are LESS frequent (notice I did not say disappear), then your settings are too high for your computer setup and you'll need to tone some things down a bit.

My advice is learn to live with a few micro-stutters on low settings (as I have defined them) and your life with WOFF will become much easier.

OK, folks, never mind. I give up. Some here just clearly cannot be reasonable, and I've got better things to do with my time. Many other games that work without all this. Is it worth it? Not all this, no.

Fact is, almost everyone here has acknowledged stuttering in some way.

Wow.

I do really appreciate those few who were willing to try.

There isn't a real flight sim in the world that runs 100% stutter free on every PC configuration, 100% of the time. I knew you weren't looking for help reducing stutters. You just want to set an impossible standard and then look like the "smartest guy on the forum" because nobody can prove your impossible standard wrong. What a total waste of everybody's time.

Pol, feel free to lock the thread.

Very strange. Willing to take time to struggle and find out how to record to prove a point, but not interested to find a compromise to play WOFF.

Wow...
Hellshade you have the patience of a saint.

OldHat, to be clear - my last post wasn't directed towards you. And I didn't say you ever said no stutters - I simply included you in the group that had acknowledged them in some way. Sorry if it wasn't clear.

As for your settings - please do try to understand, I've spent countless hours since the days of OFF working with this, to no avail. Across 4 different PCs, all fairly high-end machines. And yes, I've tried changing workshop settings from rock bottom to maxed out, and everything in between. Drivers, NVCP, Inspector...the only thing mentioned so far I hadn't tried was to downclock the factory superclocked 780 I have - and that was done before the video I just posted.

I do sincerely appreciate your effort.

Once again: I have tried all these suggestions, many of them several times over. Please stop saying I wasn't willing to try.

Ok. miscommunication, so no problem. I wish you luck wherever you decide to go. But just to be clear on one issue is that you're saying you get the SAME amount of stutters with rock bottom settings as high settings and with different type of PCs? or is there an improvement somewhere?

My point exactly. He never had any interest in improving his WOFF experience. It's all about getting others to jump through hoops while he tells them they failed and he's right really right. No interest AT ALL in actually improving the sim. I said from the beginning it didn't make any sense.

Notice how it was perfectly reasonable for him to tell everyone they needed to jump through hoops and make a video to his exact specifications in order to prove the sim works fine, but then it's unreasonable for me to ask him to make a video to my exact standards to prove his others sims fly without stutters, since he clearly has admitted issues with his machine. FRAPS, Shadowplay, etc.

Andy seems to have made some progress though. Hopefully he will keep going and we can get further improvements for him. He genuinely wishes to fly the sim.

Tough to say absolutely, but let me answer this way: If any of it made any appreciable difference, I couldn't tell, in fact to the point that I'm convinced it has nothing to do with many/most if not all the 'suggestions' that are typically being posted. And, to be perfectly honest (if you're willing to listen anyway) I don't think I'm the first one to say this.

This is particularly among the reasons people give up, I think. They try all this stuff, and nothing helps. This was my point in the challenge all along - but that was contorted, unfortunately.

I often think that this is something no one's really stumbled on to yet; some thing that those with better luck have in common, but those like me have different. TBH, I was actually just before trying to load the sim on my OS drive as a test (currently on a separate drive) but the constant insults and attacks here have me over it.

No biggie, again, thanks for your honest attempt to help.

(ignoring obvious personal attacks that have no foundation in reality)

I keep expecting Rod Serling to make an appearance somewhere in this thread.
This is some alternate reality dimension thing right?

Unfortunately using a video capture like Fraps also clobbers the PC's HD and CPU at the same time so will make anything worse. You must also close down all background tasks, yes as much as possible. Some find even MS AV background caused stutters, many people are receiving Windows updates or other program auto updates in the background. I just found MS One Drive and Amazon constantly uploading for days on my PC. PC's are bad at running clean generally.

At the start of the sim many things can be still loading (given there are many variables). Includes textures for wherever you are in your section of the whole of Europe you can fly too. In the past some ATI uses found pausing then panning around some a few times quickly can help load up textures to smoooth things. We don't use ATI on the dev team generally but WOFF gets you into the action as soon as possible rather than wait longer before allowing the player to fly.

I have played many PC games over the years and see stutters from time to time, for various reasons, many from those items above. The most stutter free experience was pre PC, on my Amiga!

PCs are not clean enough systems to avoid them at all times and never see one.

This has been done to death.

+1. Today's PCs are way more powerful, but those little Amigas did have their charm back in the day.

Thanks kknowsbear.

I have never had a stutter like at 1:03.
Not on my new system, not on five year old gaming notebook. (I7-3630@2.4GHz)
I guess I should buy a lottery ticket.
I did nothing special building my current system other than making sure the pieces were approved by the MB mfg.
(And even then I am having memory issues preventing me from OC'ing high thatn 4.2 - need to update the MB BIOS)
I did nothing special installing Windows 10PRO.

Today I have been playing with my nvidia settings and really have not noticed a heck of a lot of difference.
At this point I do not really know what they were when I did my video.
If this is still going after I test some more, I will post them.

I have not played many games WOFF - recently, ROF and Skyrim years ago.

IMO I doubt that the fix for that stutter is an any of the nvidia settings.
I think your hardware is more than qualified to run.


As I mentioned before, if I was was after a solution I would simplify.
I know you said everything else runs fine, but to isolate issues, that's not the point here.
I would get a single drive on the existing hardware, do a windows install to it, install only the minimal necessary to run WOFF

IMO, these days, there is no real good reason NOT to run applications off the OS drive.
In times past, with slow drives - yes getting multiple spindles going could help, and yes with PCs short on memory Windows SWAP file could put a hurt on systems.

Use that as a baseline and go from there.

POL is correct - I too think regarding that stutter at 1:03, it is much more likely that some other process is affecting this. And perhaps due to the age of the underlying CFS3 game engine, WOFF is more susceptible to this than other games built upon more modern game engines.

For example on my notebook system, from time to time I get an Internet Explorer runaway process.
IE is no longer up as a visible screen, but i can see my system is slow, plus I hear the fan running.
Fire up task manager and there is an IE process sucking up 30% of the processor.

That would be great, Stache.

I'm new to the nVidia world and its been helpful seeing what you guys have set up.

Thanks!

Now that the air has cleared a bit I have to admit I really don't understand the whole "stutter" thing.

What I mean is I get them so I know what they are. So far in WOFF 3 I have flown about 6 or 7 campaign flights (4 with combat) and I have had one "stutter" that lasted about an 1/8th of a second. Could have been caused by almost anything but I am certainly not losing any sleep over it and I am OCD with WOFF. FWIW max Nvidia settings and stock WOFF settings for now.

I have been through at least 3 computers in my OFF/WOFF history (all stock "top drawer" Dells that I upgrade over time) and have been through 3 OS's. Every time I do a new system or OS I stutter somewhat at first so I tweak a little here, change a setting there, and they go away.

As stated above I don't even consider my 1/8th of a second stutter to even be a "stuttering issue" in 5 hours of flight time.
Taking my current system and set-up lets say I start some heavy weight campaign in 1918 and get involved in some big arse dogfights...will my FPS suffer? Almost certainly. Will I stutter? Maybe.
So I just change a Nvidia setting or WOFF slider down a bit (and barely see a difference) and it stops. Back to 1917 I can
turn it back up.
I am hardly a computer whiz or hardware and software expert just an average Joe with normal stock computer parts ergo I don't get the stutter angst and confusion. Am I just always lucky or does this issue get way too much press time for little reason?

Maybe your SSD drive is not connected properly that is causing the stuttering for you.You wrote SSD drive but if you set it up wrong when connecting it you can really cripple its performance.yrs back when I built my PC I did just that and then found a program that I ran to test SSD speed and it was crippled.Maybe take pc to a reputable technician and see whats wrong?

Wolfstriked, I'm not sure who you were addressing, so forgive me if I'm wrong, but - as for myself - both my OS and WOFF reside on SSDs. (I have a 500G platter drive just for storage).

My OS boots to an Intel 750 series NVMe PCIe SSD. It is what I call 'stupid fast', showing by every measure I've used, performance that is absolutely astounding. The same goes for the Samsung 950 NVMe SSD I have WOFF loaded on. Both of these drives consistently test transfer rates right on the money by their specs, and around 4 times faster than a single SATA 6G/s SSD could even hope to attain (the drives both run around 2200Mb/s, which is about 4 times the practical bandwidth of any single SATA 6G device).

Moreover, I've been doing similar tests with all the drives I've used for each machine (of 4 total) I've had and tested, over the years, with the past few versions of OFF/WOFF. I started using SSDs long before most people did, and went to multi-drive RAID arrays shortly thereafter. You can pretty much bet I wasn't doing all that without a lot of testing to make darn sure things were putting out like they should. And everything was right as rain, by every measurement and test I could throw at it.

So, I'm not sure how a mass media storage subsystem that's performing well up to snuff by all measurement and testing (and performs as expected in every other game I play)...but could still somehow be responsible for the glitches I only see in WOFF.

Anyway, I do appreciate the suggestion. But any suspicion over hardware performance has been tested and tested, again and again, and nothing has ever shown any problems of any significance. Yes, occasionally a USB device may act up - that's another discussion (I fight this all the time at work, it's well known and documented and by no mean limited to my computers).

.
Maybe that is my secrit, a separate Woff boot, no virusscan, no fire wall, OS to the bone, no internet. Most people here are running Woff on A PC thats also used for other things like office, emails, internet and other games. Soon or later you will get some interfere by other tasks

Well, regardless of the test methodology, the entire point was that it should(would) be the same for all who tried the test - so, the effects of whatever recording method would be (at least somewhat) 'normalized' in the results.

Also, if the machines that don't show stuttering in the test are using FRAPS then one could surmise it's not causing stutters (else they'd have stutters).

Finally, at least in my case, I can tell you the stutters in my video look exactly the same as when I'm not recording, so we can reasonably infer that FRAPS isn't causing or worsening anything.

In other words, the evidence so far says FRAPS has nothing to do with the stutters we are discussing. No surprise, really, since it's not as if I was running FRAPS the whole time I've had issues with stutters.

BTW, for those keeping score - and especially for those who keep claiming I'm not interested in trying to fix this issue, I have now tried all the stuff that Andy mentioned earlier (monitor refresh rate and pre-rendered frames, even though I use a GSYNCH monitor...alone, and in addition to turning off sounds, disabling AV, disabling Nvidia HDaudio, etc, etc...)

Absolutely no difference. Same stutters.

I guess I'd have to try taping a fish to my head and walking around backwards (as stupid as it is), or risk being accused of not trying, just because I have some idea about what is and is not going on...but I can't possibly be right unless I try everything anyone suggests. Even when they're already proven not to make any difference, or are changes that have nothing at all to do with anything, but are heralded as the solution that fixed it all ("placebo", I suspect).

You tried everything? Bummer. I guess you were right. There's nothing else to try and you have totally unplayable stutters that you cannot accept. I guess you need to find a different WWI flight sim. No need to waste more time on the forums of a flight sim that you aren't flying because it doesn't meet your standards, listening to people offer solutions that you know don't work. You were right all along. Well done.

Best of luck.

Hehe...

What I was indicating that someone who sees no stutters, could record a "noticeable" stutter when using Fraps. Depending the million software and hardware PC variables, you are clobbering it with Fraps - a known resource hog too. So recording someone who perceives no stutter, and then seeing a stutter in their video proves nothing except it stuttered when using Fraps. Yes if you already see lots, and you then record it and you are 100% sure it's absolutely exactly the same, congrats on your PC the game stutters?

As I said PC's have stutters, full stop. Even a "clean" Windows itself has many background processes even when most non critical are shut off. There's 1000s of potential problems even on a "top end it must perfect be cos it cost lots of money PC" or all the other games I bought are fine, why does one that has the whole of europe fighting across the front with 200+ AI thinking and deciding, stutter when super mario cart 7 doesn't - aren't they the same? Why do they bring out many BIOS updates, software updates, OS updates, hardware updates. Cooling issues, CPU throttling, memory timing issues to fish on forehead you name it yes. PC's are crap at being a) consistent for all, b) writing code for that works absolutely perfectly with no flaw so everyone with any form of "PC" since 2008 whatever will think is perfect. Hence why many games companies moved to PS or XBox. Consistent hardware and software, all "known".

XCOM2 brand new game, many posts of stutters and so on. Good init.

I never said everything. Big difference.

Really, really could do without the sarcasm around here. S'posed to be a friendly place, with folks interested in actually being helpful. Not to mention it's remarkable who gets away with constant personal attacks.

Taken altogether, speaks volumes.

Pol

And all I was saying is you can't blame the stuttering on FRAPS. There are many who have mentioned stutters who never used FRAPS (myself among them, until yesterday).

It's obvious that this is a sore spot for many of you here. I'll refrain from mentioning any more issues with this game.

Thanks for the support.

Pol,

I've got 486 videos on my channel that have been uploaded over the past 7 years. The overwhelming majority of them are W/OFF. Some Skyrim, Rift, RoF, Wings of Prey, but mostly W/OFF. So I will conservatively guess at least 400 are W/OFF. Anyone can feel free to count them if they want to get an exact number. My guess though is that the number will be higher than 400.

But I can no longer deny it. The truth has been exposed. (Tears streaming down face, hands clasped in prayer, eyes looking upward to the heavens) I have meticulously edited out any and all stutters over the last 7 years and 400 videos. It's just what I do.

Hopefully the community will forgive me.

.

If time allows I will see about a WOFF 3 video capture with my newly updated rig based on your criteria kksnowbear, and will post it to YouTube. No promises as I am quite busy with work at the moment - but I will try. In the meantime you might try bringing a shrubbery to the Knights Who Say "Nostutterswhenflyingwoffevenduringlargefurballsinlatenineteeneighteen!"

.

What is your CPU? I have a theory that even though my 3570k is running at 4.4ghz its just not as efficient as one of the newer say I7's.

Not WOFF but relevant that kills me with DCS world.I am pegged at 60fps at freaking 4K where I fly around and its butter smooth with no stutter whatsoever.The catch is that as soon as I add a few AI it stutters like crazy.When I fly quick missions I have to turn off every single AAA,plane etc in order to enjoy the game otherwise the stutters instantly turn me off and I turn the game off.This is with a pretty good system with 4.4ghz/908ti and 16g ram.

I can't help but sense some other motive and not an attempt to get rid of stutters here.
What exactly are you seeking? What are you trying to do? What answer do you wish? Or is this some "pay attention to me" kind of thing?
Of course WOFF has "issues" as you say...I guess?!? Are there some features I would like to see? Of course.
Am I unhappy with WOFF as a package deal? Not at all.
And finally do I get stutters? NO.
This whole thread, mainly your responses frankly, comes across as extremely odd.
Hopefully some things just don't translate into text well.
Signed,
The Knights who say...yea...what Lou said. And I guess Hellshade gets a spanking.

I Know what your points was, and I was clear that you can blame stuttering on Fraps if you had none before, but when using it you record stutters. It proves nothing.

As I said if you had some problems already then of course Fraps isn't a cause.

Like the previous thread that this is turning into, this has been done to death. PCs have stutters of various kinds in various games for various people. It will differ for different PCs.

Most of your posts on this forum have been pretty much on this subject. More I will close. You made your point and others made theirs.