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I did a benchmark comparison PE vs BH&H II

Posted By: Redwolf

I did a benchmark comparison PE vs BH&H II - 04/08/21 05:51 PM

...over at combat ace if anyone wants to see. burnout
Posted By: Wodin

Re: I did a benchmark comparison PE vs BH&H II - 04/08/21 05:55 PM

Any reason why you can't post results here also?
Posted By: Redwolf

Re: I did a benchmark comparison PE vs BH&H II - 04/08/21 05:57 PM

well aren't we suppose to be moving over there? neaner
Plus I typed it all out!! #%&*$# lazy fellow I am! LOL (though I could copy and paste I suppose)
Posted By: Wodin

Re: I did a benchmark comparison PE vs BH&H II - 04/08/21 05:58 PM

Oh I didn't know that..
Posted By: orbyxP

Re: I did a benchmark comparison PE vs BH&H II - 04/08/21 06:19 PM

To get a true comparison you would need to do a clean install of both on the same PC. No mods or file alterations in either sim.

Just to be safe, Each should be installed tested then uninstalled separately. They should not co-exist at the same time while testing.
Posted By: Redwolf

Re: I did a benchmark comparison PE vs BH&H II - 04/08/21 06:24 PM

Indeed, but like I explained in the rationale, I wanted to compare exactly what I had to exactly what I was getting -- and posted it as it may be useful to others. smile

And no, they didn't co-exist in the testing (indeed I don't believe you can do that anyway - but good to point out as Pol has mentioned not having both co-exist). Tested, uninstalled, installed, tested.
Posted By: jerbear

Re: I did a benchmark comparison PE vs BH&H II - 04/08/21 08:04 PM

Why are we all supposed to be moving to Combat Ace?
Maybe my wife told me and, as usual, evidently I missed something?
Posted By: Wodin

Re: I did a benchmark comparison PE vs BH&H II - 04/08/21 08:20 PM

to sum up did you find BHAH2 faster?
Posted By: Trooper117

Re: I did a benchmark comparison PE vs BH&H II - 04/08/21 08:40 PM

He didn't as far as I can work out... because of all the extra goodies that we get with BH&H2, that all comes with a price (from Winders)
Posted By: Redwolf

Re: I did a benchmark comparison PE vs BH&H II - 04/08/21 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by Wodin
to sum up did you find BHAH2 faster?


Nope. I personally lost 26.5% fps - but please see original post for methodology/rationale/procedure/detailed results, etc.

https://combatace.com/forums/topic/95993-benchmark-comparisons-bhh-ii-vs-pe/

And I thought the developers called CombatAce their old/new home? -- well, Winder posts there now anyway (and Pol seems to travel back-and-forth). idk, I am drifting back-and-forth too, lol.
Posted By: Trooper117

Re: I did a benchmark comparison PE vs BH&H II - 04/08/21 09:01 PM

Quote
am drifting back-and-forth too,


That's it... we can now be part of 'Drifter Squadron' biggrin
Posted By: carrick58

Re: I did a benchmark comparison PE vs BH&H II - 04/08/21 09:04 PM

I thought that we moved here from Combat Ace ?
Posted By: Racingfan

Re: I did a benchmark comparison PE vs BH&H II - 04/08/21 09:10 PM

I read on combat ace about a mod that improves the framerate but there was no link. Does anyone have a link to the mod for BHAHII.
Posted By: Redwolf

Re: I did a benchmark comparison PE vs BH&H II - 04/08/21 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by carrick58
I thought that we moved here from Combat Ace ?


Yes but we are back there again dizzy

(The ambiance is much nicer there though, at least - a very purdy looking forum)
Posted By: Adger

Re: I did a benchmark comparison PE vs BH&H II - 04/08/21 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by Racingfan
I read on combat ace about a mod that improves the framerate but there was no link. Does anyone have a link to the mod for BHAHII.


That was Vons,s mod and previously Panama Red both for WOFF UE/PE..There isn't one currently for BHaH II mate I reckon VonS is tinkering away on something though.
Posted By: CaptSopwith

Re: I did a benchmark comparison PE vs BH&H II - 04/08/21 09:32 PM

As a quick aside I can say that BHAHII is running noticeably smoother on my 6 year old system than PE did. Frame rate seems to dip more often, but it doesn't... dare I even *say* the word... stutter... when it does. So yeah, dogfighting, looking around, all of it, feels a lot nicer, and I'm running a modest rig: 2015 era i7, 16GB RAM, 1050ti. Super, super impressed so far and I've jumped in everything from a Bristol Scout in January of 1915 to a Pfalz DIII in March 1918. All good so far!
Posted By: Adger

Re: I did a benchmark comparison PE vs BH&H II - 04/08/21 09:39 PM

My post to Redwolf from CA.Copied and pasted below..


"Good post RedWolf..My 2p,s worth..my fps is down say 5% but it feels a hell of a lot smoother, Trackir is smooth as silk, looks visually much much better. Also ive noticed that from campaign to flight screen is waaayyy quicker, wonder if the scenery draws in quicker now and thats why to me it seems "smoother"

Love everything about it, the Scenery, goggles Skins, Music+Sounds ..still in training so haven't had my Ar$e handed to me yet by the AI eek

Absolutely phenomenal work ..BH&H II and WOTR really do have an exciting future ahead. "
Posted By: Racingfan

Re: I did a benchmark comparison PE vs BH&H II - 04/08/21 09:48 PM

Ok, I had Vons previously. I have yet to upgrade to BHAH II. I'm torn this month if I want the DCS F-18 to fly with friends when the new update drops or if I want BHAH II (where I had some config issues getting the prior version up and running).
Posted By: Redwolf

Re: I did a benchmark comparison PE vs BH&H II - 04/08/21 10:24 PM

Very early results are showing Von S Gpu tuner is at least partially, if not fully mitigating the fps loss with BHaH II (seeing a good trend) -- will do a full report on CA when I have it all done.
Posted By: VonS

Re: I did a benchmark comparison PE vs BH&H II - 04/08/21 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by Redwolf
Very early results are showing Von S Gpu tuner is at least partially, if not fully mitigating the fps loss with BHaH II (seeing a good trend) -- will do a full report on CA when I have it all done.


Looking forward to the results - also, if you find that the WOFF GPU Tuner patch ends up being a bit crusty in BHAH.II, try my WOTR GPU Tuner Patch in BHAH.II as well - but make sure to point the files to the correct directories before loading via JSGME. I have a hunch that while the patches will help somewhat, it may be possible that the WOTR Tuner will be more compatible this time around - but check over both when you find time.

I am busy with real work and a 6-cylinder Anzani Bleriot that I am helping an excellent 3-d modeler with, in First Eagles 2 (https://combatace.com/uploads/monthly_2021_02/image.png.ffddfc0bb064320834db313d09b854e0.png), so I am currently limited with my free time until further notice - but I will do my best to read the WOFF posts here regularly, also on CombatAce, to keep abreast of latest and exciting developments.

Cheers all and happy flying,
Von S smile2

Posted By: Panama Red

Re: I did a benchmark comparison PE vs BH&H II - 04/08/21 11:37 PM

My same mod that is used to increase the FPS and scenery for PE also works for BH&H II, because I have been testing it today to see if there were any problems , (none so far).

You can find the mod over at Sandbaggers Mod center.
Posted By: Polovski

Re: I did a benchmark comparison PE vs BH&H II - 04/08/21 11:47 PM

Originally Posted by Redwolf
Originally Posted by Wodin
to sum up did you find BHAH2 faster?


Nope. I personally lost 26.5% fps - but please see original post for methodology/rationale/procedure/detailed results, etc.

https://combatace.com/forums/topic/95993-benchmark-comparisons-bhh-ii-vs-pe/

And I thought the developers called CombatAce their old/new home? -- well, Winder posts there now anyway (and Pol seems to travel back-and-forth). idk, I am drifting back-and-forth too, lol.


When you mention this Redwolf can you just qualify this please, i.e. explain clearly that although you lost 25% part of that must be due to the fact you had a modded PE with lower quality faster configs, and compared it to a stock BH&H II with no mod.

I am here sometimes. Just trying to smooth the launch with issues popping up, but will be here less.
We ask people post in the Tech forum over at CA so we can see it better rather than checking various places like Facebook, emails etc.
Posted By: Redwolf

Re: I did a benchmark comparison PE vs BH&H II - 04/09/21 01:54 AM

Uggh, that is why I referenced the original post and told people to go look and read. Nothing is hidden. And indeed I explained in here that I wanted to compare exactly what I had to exactly what I was getting - for better or for worse (and hoping it would also be useful/of interest to some). Kinda hate going back and forth, tbh.

But yes, I guess I get your concern seeing that and a random user not bothering to read the detail and just see 26% loss, so I get ya, Pol.

To spell it out here (though I do wish everyone interested to look at the full post over at combat ace (referenced in this thread) - testing was done with identical workshop settings in each version, however, my PE that I was testing it against also was utilizing VonS GPU tuner (as specified in original post).

Btw, there is now an update with more results to the original - as I have now tested my PE vs a modded BH&H II that has the identical tuner in place -- results were a 10% general loss in fps vs. PE (again, please see combat ace for details).
Posted By: Adger

Re: I did a benchmark comparison PE vs BH&H II - 04/09/21 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by Panama Red
My same mod that is used to increase the FPS and scenery for PE also works for BH&H II, because I have been testing it today to see if there were any problems , (none so far).

You can find the mod over at Sandbaggers Mod center.


I think there’s also Some Ambient sounds lost in your mod PR,? VonS reports that in his Tuner mod sounds are lost..cheers

Quote from VonS “ BHAH.II (total of 18 or 19), when compared with the 11 or so scrape-point entries in UE/PE WOFF. Scrape points provide ambient rumbling sounds and other goodies when taxiing, ascending, alighting, etc.“
Posted By: Polovski

Re: I did a benchmark comparison PE vs BH&H II - 04/09/21 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by Redwolf

... To spell it out here (though I do wish everyone interested to look at the full post over at combat ace (referenced in this thread) - testing was done with identical workshop settings in each version, however, my PE that I was testing it against also was utilizing VonS GPU tuner (as specified in original post).

Btw, there is now an update with more results to the original - as I have now tested my PE vs a modded BH&H II that has the identical tuner in place -- results were a 10% general loss in fps vs. PE (again, please see combat ace for details).


Yes that was the idea, the fact it had a mod seemed lost in the thread. Indeed the newer test is a better one.
Posted By: Wodin

Re: I did a benchmark comparison PE vs BH&H II - 04/09/21 12:35 PM

Strange I'm getting no obvious performance drop, honestly feels smoother.
Posted By: Burning_Beard

Re: I did a benchmark comparison PE vs BH&H II - 04/09/21 01:02 PM

I think the difference is there is a lot more going on. When starting a career, I have noticed on the first mission (when you are usually the last to take off) there are a ton of planes taking off. Before it would be a 20 or so second wait (use as before. the flight instructor, it tells you how long to wait to take off, what altitude to fly, etc) and now it can be close to 40 seconds, with the planes taking off at the same roll speed. So, more going on (goggles, vibration, sheer number of aircraft) slower frame rates.
Posted By: BuckeyeBob

Re: I did a benchmark comparison PE vs BH&H II - 04/09/21 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by Adger
Originally Posted by Panama Red
My same mod that is used to increase the FPS and scenery for PE also works for BH&H II, because I have been testing it today to see if there were any problems , (none so far).

You can find the mod over at Sandbaggers Mod center.


I think there’s also Some Ambient sounds lost in your mod PR,? VonS reports that in his Tuner mod sounds are lost..cheers

Quote from VonS “ BHAH.II (total of 18 or 19), when compared with the 11 or so scrape-point entries in UE/PE WOFF. Scrape points provide ambient rumbling sounds and other goodies when taxiing, ascending, alighting, etc.“


These involve different files, Adger. PR's mod has to do with textures, while VonS mod is all about FM's, so PR's mod shouldn't effect scrape points or sound effects at all.
Posted By: Redwolf

Re: I did a benchmark comparison PE vs BH&H II - 04/09/21 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by Burning_Beard
. So, more going on (goggles, vibration, sheer number of aircraft) slower frame rates.


+ Sharper, more detailed landscape, more sounds - both internal and ambient, more AI to the AI (and aircraft model adjustments too I believe)...

And yes, it is indeed smoother (not while panning in mouse view mode, however (very unfortunate for me) in my case) - they have done miracles to reduce/eliminate stutter that existed previously in PE! yep
If you have a high end system, you may not even notice a fps hit vs PE. - but it will impact others depending on their systems and settings. It is a bloody wonderful new edition though! cheers


Posted By: Adger

Re: I did a benchmark comparison PE vs BH&H II - 04/09/21 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by BuckeyeBob


These involve different files, Adger. PR's mod has to do with textures, while VonS mod is all about FM's, so PR's mod shouldn't effect scrape points or sound effects at all.


Ahh my bad Bob, I See PR has 2 mods available, which one is used mate? BT FPS or Scenery improvement mod ..cheers Bob
Posted By: BuckeyeBob

Re: I did a benchmark comparison PE vs BH&H II - 04/09/21 05:01 PM

No worries. Glad I could help!

(BTW, sympathies to all our Commonwealth brethren on the loss of Prince Philip--with the exception of any of the anti-Royalists out there)!
Posted By: Redwolf

Re: I did a benchmark comparison PE vs BH&H II - 04/09/21 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by BuckeyeBob
Originally Posted by Adger
Originally Posted by Panama Red
My same mod that is used to increase the FPS and scenery for PE also works for BH&H II, because I have been testing it today to see if there were any problems , (none so far).

You can find the mod over at Sandbaggers Mod center.


I think there’s also Some Ambient sounds lost in your mod PR,? VonS reports that in his Tuner mod sounds are lost..cheers

Quote from VonS “ BHAH.II (total of 18 or 19), when compared with the 11 or so scrape-point entries in UE/PE WOFF. Scrape points provide ambient rumbling sounds and other goodies when taxiing, ascending, alighting, etc.“


These involve different files, Adger. PR's mod has to do with textures, while VonS mod is all about FM's, so PR's mod shouldn't effect scrape points or sound effects at all.


No, I see there is some confusion. VonS had different mods available - some of which are purely FM's (which do effect the sounds when used for BH&H II as there are triggers in the FM's for the sounds), however VonS also has a set of GPU tuner mods - and these have zero bearing on the sound and are entirely different.
Posted By: VonS

Re: I did a benchmark comparison PE vs BH&H II - 04/09/21 05:30 PM

Thank you Redwolf for the clarification, and you are entirely correct - the FM mods., which are incompatible with BHAH.II (because of extra scrape point entries included in the new xfms across all aircraft in BHAH.II) - contain the old scrape points from the UE/PE variants of WOFF - thus the incompatibility.

My GPU Tuner Patches (both for WOFF UE/PE, and also for WOTR Phase One) - do not include anything remotely related to FMs or scrape points.

By the way Redwolf, if you will eventually be testing my WOTR GPU Tuner Patch in BHAH.II - make sure, before loading via JSGME, to swap the preload.xml file in the WOTR Tuner with the preload.xml file located in the WOFF Tuner - since the preload.xml file in the WOTR Tuner is for WOTR only. And as well make the necessary directory name changes in the WOTR Tuner so it loads correctly in BHAH.II, prior to testing.

Cheers all and happy flying,
Von S smile2
Posted By: Adger

Re: I did a benchmark comparison PE vs BH&H II - 04/09/21 05:31 PM

Yeah my bad,apologies if I misinformed anyone. cheers
Posted By: Redwolf

Re: I did a benchmark comparison PE vs BH&H II - 04/09/21 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by VonS

By the way Redwolf, if you will eventually be testing my WOTR GPU Tuner Patch in BHAH.II - make sure, before loading via JSGME, to swap the preload.xml file in the WOTR Tuner with the preload.xml file located in the WOFF Tuner - since the preload.xml file in the WOTR Tuner is for WOTR only. And as well make the necessary directory name changes in the WOTR Tuner so it loads correctly in BHAH.II, prior to testing.


Yes indeed I noticed that and will have everything ship-shape before I eject them. Might be a while though as I don't have as much free time today or tomorrow. We'll see.
Posted By: Panama Red

Re: I did a benchmark comparison PE vs BH&H II - 04/09/21 05:50 PM

Use the one for PE, the UE version is for UE, not PE / BHaH II. It's titled Scenery, but it it handles Scenery, BT elimination and FPS all in one without touching all the other items that VonS changes in his mod.
Posted By: Adger

Re: I did a benchmark comparison PE vs BH&H II - 04/09/21 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by Panama Red
Use the one for PE, the UE version is for UE, not PE / BHaH II. It's titled Scenery, but it it handles Scenery, BT elimination and FPS all in one without touching all the other items that VonS changes in his mod.



Thank you PR cheers
Posted By: VonS

Re: I did a benchmark comparison PE vs BH&H II - 04/09/21 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by Panama Red
...without touching all the other items that VonS changes in his mod.


Just a brief heads up for all who are following this thread - please see Redwolf's clarification above, and also my response, regarding the FM Mods and GPU Tuner Patches. My GPU Tuner Patches (for WOFF/WOTR) were tested on AMD-vid cards only, while I am assuming that PR tested his on nVidia. Redwolf is currently carrying out further tests to determine compatibility between my Tuner Patches and BHAH.II. While it is true that my FM Mods touch other items too - my Tuner Patches are strictly FPS-related, scenery/stuttering-related, and also eliminate the BT problem sometimes seen with video tearing. One of the other things that my Tuner Patches dispensed with was the unwritten rule that only odd-numbered values or even-numbered values should be used in the various ring dim entries across the various texture, composite, budgets, etc. files. I often mix/oscillate between even and odd values in the relevant xfm files of my Tuner Patches. Many thanks to PR for his patches that were, a few yrs. back, the inspiration for my own Tuner Patches.

(Further note: my WOFF GPU Tuner patch was only tested on the PE variant of WOFF, not in UE. Those who still have a glorious ver. 4.18 installed somewhere deep on their hard-drives, last ver. that was SweetFX compatible, are recommended to see the manual xfm file tweaks for texture improvement, FPS improvement, etc., listed under the long "WOFF on a Mac" thread - those manual tweaks do not fully eliminate BTs in UE ver. 4.18, but they do reduce them to a minimum, while enhancing things like field textures, grass textures, and so on. One of these days when I find more free time I will maybe tinker more with that too - the GPU Tuner Patch may indeed be installed in UE 4.18, but it degrades graphics quality too noticeably for my taste, so I don't recommend it there.)

Cheers all,
Von S cheers
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