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RTX 3080 reviews are coming in

Posted By: Hellshade

RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/16/20 04:25 PM

Not exactly finding any bad reviews on the new RTX 3080. They dropped the price significantly and upped the performance. I was going to wait a few more cycles to update my old GTX 1080 but I'm starting to rethink that. I know WOFF is very CPU dependent but doesn't seem like it would hurt to have this kind of a GPU pushing the frame rates consistently higher. What do you guys think? Devs?

RTX 3080 Toms Hardware Review
Posted By: kksnowbear

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/16/20 06:59 PM

Couple things I saw in that write-up:

"Out of all the benchmarks we ran, there was only one (Doom Eternal) where the 3080 actually doubled the 2080's performance."

"We won't belabor the point, but without ray tracing and/or DLSS, most games simply don't benefit much from the performance the RTX 3080 delivers."


And according to what I saw, the further below 4k resolution you're running, the less performance increase you're going to see - interesting, considering that 1080 is still more common that all other resolutions combined.

Seems all the bragging about "twice the performance (of a 2080) at half the cost" (or whatever) was the same kind of hype that surrounds most new hardware releases. I am also reminded that prior generations of new GPUs actually opened up at a price a good deal higher than what had been stated in the hype before their releases, too.

So, less than the hyped performance and (perhaps) more than the hyped price...pretty much what has happened in the past.
Posted By: Polovski

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/16/20 08:16 PM

For new releases of games, it will be great. However, they punt it's cheaper - I don't think it is that much cheaper than the 2000 series really? Until we have one no idea if it will help a little with the shader side of things. For many years new generations of GPU has only given roughly 20/30% gains over the previous, and recently they have kept over hiking the price each time too. I think they reached the plateau and can't really charge more every two years.

Makes 2080 / 2080 Ti owners annoyed to invest I am sure.
Posted By: kksnowbear

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/16/20 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by Polovski
For new releases of games, it will be great. However, they punt it's cheaper - I don't think it is that much cheaper than the 2000 series really? Until we have one no idea if it will help a little with the shader side of things. For many years new generations of GPU has only given roughly 20/30% gains over the previous, and recently they have kept over hiking the price each time too. I think they reached the plateau and can't really charge more every two years.

Makes 2080 / 2080 Ti owners annoyed to invest I am sure.


It's not really all that much cheaper, if you're comparing performance. No one's posting prices (until tomorrow, IIRC) but I'm betting the 30 series** will be more than the rumors said, and the 20 series obviously will drop, so that'll change the equation. 2080 Super cards are going around $700-750 ATM, which isn't that much more than the 3080 is supposed to be. And the margin of performance gain is less when comparing a 2080S to the 3080 as well, plus it drops again if you're looking at 1080p. Nowhere near the figures that all the raving has been about.

**aftermarket cards, that is. Apparently, Nvidia is selling a 3080 FE for $699(?), but again that's not much less than the current 2080S price - which will almost certainly drop, soon.

Also interesting is that no one was allowed to publish reviews until today, one day before the release of the cards themselves. By that time, all the lemmings are already lined up to buy the "latest and greatest", having almost no opportunity to review (factual, non-hyped) data. I haven't specifically checked this, but it seems 24 hours is about the shortest time ever between allowing published reviews and hardware release date.

I think it may be more appropriate to those who want to run 4k, can afford the monitor and other hardware, and are happy with ('only') 60FPS at 4k. For that, it seems to be a good fit - in some games.

(Edit: I'm also seeing a lot of talk about the 3080 bottlenecking CPUs that aren't fairly current, particularly in the same 4k arena that the 3080 is supposed to excel at...so, I guess what they're trying [not] to say is that in order for the fantastic deal on a $700 3080 to be 'worth it', you need to shell out $2000 plus for a 4k monitor and a new CPU - which will almost certainly require a new motherboard, maybe new RAM...sheez, it just never stops with these guys...)

I don't think this applies to most gamers. Certainly doesn't seem so according to statistics on gaming monitor resolution.
Posted By: Hellshade

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/16/20 09:32 PM

Pol,

I run at 4k, where the biggest performance gains are shown with RTX 3080 over a 1080 FE, which is what I currently have. Consistency in frame rates is more important than peak frame rates for smooth game play, so if it provides the horsepower to spare to stay locked at 60, it should be a good improvement. I will wait until after the new year for whenever the 3080 TI comes out.

Yes prices have been much higher than originally listed for the past couple of generations. But the RTX 2020 was around $1,100 or so. At least the starting list price for the 3080 FE is down to about $700. Not saying that isn't expensive, but it's still a reduction as opposed to another increase. So more performance at a lower price point than the last generation seems like as good a place as any to consider jumping in. I'll wait until after the New Year in any event to see what the actual pricing is and if they will be releasing a 3080 Ti version.
Posted By: Polovski

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/17/20 09:07 AM

One problem in UK is they just change the $ sign to a £ and use the same announce price numbers!
I think the 2080 Ti was £1100 here - straight $ £ conversion as always frown
2080 was around £699 or something i.e. more like $907

So if they don't do that $ £ trick maybe it will be cheaper biggrin

Agreed that iffy delay on reviews doesn't instil confidence.
Posted By: kksnowbear

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/17/20 12:21 PM

Some prices are starting to appear. Many cards from the higher end names (eVGA, MSI, Asus) are running $30-50 higher than what was released, no surprise. And, given demand and the fact that everything is already out of stock, it's possible that figure will increase. Because profit. Some lower-end names (Gigabyte, Zotac) are meeting the $700 mark, but they're also out of stock.

Meanwhile the 20-series cards are still priced the same - mostly because the 30-series isn't available. But, soon as supply catches up with demand, the 20-series will drop, effectively reducing (if not eliminating) the "huge" performance/cost delta. Performance gain was widely touted to be 200% and at best is maybe 80% compared to a vanilla 2080 (and less still for the 2080S, and only at higher resolution).

So, prices will equalize, and the performance isn't what all the ranting suggested. In a word: Marketing.

And, let's not forget that (according to more than one source) the CPU is a factor if you're one of the few who actually expect to run at 4k. Without the 'latest and greatest', getting "solid" 60FPS may not be reality. This will typically mean changing motherboards, which (could) mean new RAM... Also, real costs like the power supply can be a factor (the 30-series looks to require ~30% more power than the 20-series).

So now, as I mentioned above, that GPU upgrade which was such a great value at $700 winds up costing a lot more - and more still if you're determined to have a 30-series GPU, but don't already have the 4k monitor that justifies the 30-series GPU. Even then, I'm reminded that accepting a lower frame rate to gain higher resolution is almost never preferred over higher refresh rates possible with lower resolution; something that was covered in the 4k Gaming is Dumb video, and I'm not sure that even 60 FPS is enough to change that. Most gamers I deal with are looking to get over 100 (and 'professional' competitive gamers seem to be well north of that, looking at 200+ on up to 360Hz refresh rates.)

IMO, the reason for most who decide to change to 30-series GPUs soon after release will be the same as it is, typically, for those lining up to buy the latest and greatest soon after release: Bragging rights - which is seldom a 'value proposition'.

My advice is always to wait a while, and definitely consider the previous generation(s) - once prices drop due to the new generation release. I even take it to extreme lengths, trying to find combinations of (usually much older) previous gen hardware that yields a very high percentage of performance for significantly less money (say 95%+ performance for ~66% cost). I have several on the bench right now.

Naturally, I understand these approaches will never apply for the 'bragging rights' crowd, because in spite of the demonstrated empirical value, they lack the one factor the bragging rights crowd desires: They can't go online and brag about what they just bought.

Of course, if you're the 'money is no object' type, good for you. I don't know anyone like that, and they're far less common than those who enjoy gaming, but as part of a bigger picture that includes things like food, rent, and maybe even a family to support.

Me personally, I like bragging about how I got comparable performance at a much lower price, saving perhaps a few hundred dollars in the process.

What Nvidia has done with the 30 series is impressive, no doubt, when compared to costs/performance of the 20-series. But then, the 20-series was overpriced for the value, and ray tracing thus far has been a failure. Nvidia set the price for the 20 series...and now - since that was so outrageous - they can charge much less and make the 30 series look like a steal by comparison. It's more about how bad the 20 series was than how good the 30 series is, TBH. LOL I even saw a meme somewhere about people having to sell their 2080Ti for $500...
Posted By: RAF_Louvert

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/17/20 01:11 PM

.

Wait - hold on now kk - so you're saying that these computer parts manufactures are intentionally exploiting our individual interests and desires in order to make money? I'm crushed! So much for the Utopian dream.


Lou

.

.
Posted By: kksnowbear

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/17/20 01:22 PM

LMAO...well, as a matter of fact, I guess that is what I'm saying.

Capitalist b@stards biggrin biggrin biggrin

Posted By: RAF_Louvert

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/17/20 01:25 PM

.

biggrin

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Posted By: Hellshade

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/17/20 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by RAF_Louvert
.

Wait - hold on now kk - so you're saying that these computer parts manufactures are intentionally exploiting our individual interests and desires in order to make money? I'm crushed! So much for the Utopian dream.
Lou.


Yes. Basic capitalism at work. How dare they?!? LOL Spot on, Lou. Nobody has to buy the new cards and I'd always advise anyone to wait a few months to see what the real world prices and people's real world experiences turn out to be. As for myself, the leap from a 1080 FE to a potential 3080 ti might be worth it. For others, it might be a terrible idea.
Posted By: kksnowbear

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/17/20 02:19 PM

And you know, something else I realized as I was looking at all the (out of stock) cards at NewEgg...

Duh...the higher (*much* higher) power requirements also mean higher TDP (that's heat generated by the card) means that all the aftermarket models (that I see so far) are triple fan setups. The triple fans means cards are over 11" long ; some even go over 12.5". So that means a few things too:

- If your case isn't wide enough to accommodate a card this long, you could be looking at a new chassis. (Chassis prices for some reason have gone nuts, often running $100+). I recently have been working with a card that's almost 12" in a reasonably-sized case...let me tell you, it can be a real workout.

- These cards will generate a good deal more heat - so even if it's big enough, unless your chassis is well ventilated, this could be a problem, too. And they're axial fan designs, meaning these cards will blow all the heat off themselves...right on to your chipset, voltage regulator modules (VRMs), RAM, and CPU. Unless you liquid cool your CPU (which itself has consequences for other components' cooling), you could be looking at overheating it and/or the other components in that crucial area of your motherboard.

- If you have a small form factor case (many bought Dells/HPs etc) there won't likely be a 'single-fan' solution that is small enough/runs cool enough/uses little enough power for this situation. Even the 3070 draws 220W, which is *way* beyond what those small units can support, and puts it among the most power-hungry Nvidia cards produced...never mind the 320W drawn by a 3080.

A lot of incidental factors to consider.
Posted By: kksnowbear

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/17/20 02:35 PM

Lou's (obvious) joke about economic principles laid aside, the overwhelming point here is that a 30-series card isn't going to be the obvious, steal of a bargain, no-brainer cost vs performance upgrade that all the (Nvidia marketing) hype has tried to portray. No matter what resolution, games, or card you already may have. Simple as that.

It might perform better in some specific cases, but it isn't going to be cheaper than alternatives that do just as well in the majority of cases. And it could wind up costing a lot in indirect expenses for what is usually a "drop-in" upgrade. Did I mention that PCIe 4.0 - which many motherboards don't even support - is now being used for the 30-series cards?

NVIDIA’s Seth Schneider said. “The impact is typically less than a few percent going from a x16 PCIE 4.0 to x16 PCIE 3.0." So, if you don't change motherboards, you're already sacrificing (another) "few percent" of what you bought the 3080 for...?
Posted By: Robert_Wiggins

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/17/20 04:05 PM

Very interesting insight KKsnowbear!!

Gives one a lot of food for thought!

Tnx
Posted By: kksnowbear

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/18/20 01:00 PM

Indeed, Robert. Glad if it helps.

Y'know, more I look at this...I am simply amazed at all the details that are completely omitted (or at best, glossed over) by the all the hype.

Please bear with me - this is sort of important, especially if you're planning on upgrading or building a new machine any time in the next year or so.

This is about the whole PCIe 4.0 thing. Keep in mind that the 30-series cards use PCIe 4.0, and per Nvidia, a system running PCIe 3.0 isn't going to support the full speed of the GPU's interface. This matters not only in terms of the performance gains purported by the 30-series GPUS, but also in a different (very crucial) feature they utilize: It's called RTX IO. Now this by itself probably warrants a whole separate write-up, but I'm going to try to reduce it as much as possible.

RTX IO allows the GPU to basically pull resources (like textures, in games) directly from the storage, without having to go through the CPU for functions such as decompression. Sound familiar?

Effectively, this is something that's been discussed over and over again here in this forum, regarding WOFF - although not necessarily in a way that's immediately apparent when discussing the 30-series GPUs. There have been discussions regarding limitations of the WOFF 'pipeline' or 'engine' and the performance issues it causes, and at times these discussions included the concept of moving the processing work for some graphics elements from the CPU to the GPU (or so-called "offloading").

Now, to be clear: I am NOT saying this new method will fix the issues with the CFS3 engine's 'pipeline'. TBH, I don't think it can be fixed, because I believe it's too firmly embedded in the code to change it without basically starting over. My discussions with AnKor in the past have echoed this; he's said he's not sure that what causes these issues can be fixed by his work with DirectX and shaders. I believe he's confirmed that doing this work on the CPU vs GPU is big part of the problem and that it is likely impossible to fix. I think what we'll all find is that games with this sort of issue can't be corrected without 'deep dive' changes that aren't possible (without source code and a significant amount of work, anyway).

Still, I'm bringing it up because it helps to illustrate why getting these functions offloaded from the CPU is important. RTX IO effectively does what (would have) avoided the issue that CFS3 has, as regards moving resources directly from storage to GPU, processing on the GPU itself, and being able to do this by taking advantage of the speeds allowed by an interface like PCIe 4.0. In my mind, it's entirely plausible that PCIe 4.0 matters more to the RTX IO process than perhaps it does to just GPU interface speed. In fact, here's a quote from the Nvidia website:

"(With RTX IO) Object pop-in and stutter can be reduced, and high-quality textures can be streamed at incredible rates, so even if you’re speeding through a world, everything runs and looks great."

Now, anyone that's been here for some of these 'engine' discussions should be able to identify with that, all by itself. These are the same factors which contribute to (or detract from) the immersion so important to enjoyment of a gaming experience. I'm always reminded to take 'marketing speak' with a huge grain of salt, mind you, but this is a set of developments in PC gaming performance that's well overdue, and could actually be...well (forgive me) a "game changer".

For the sake of space/time, I'm intentionally omitting a lot of detail here, but if you want - and you should - you can check it out here: >LINK<

So, PCIe 4.0 matters, and it could matter a lot, beyond just the GPU. I hope the way I've explained it shows why.

So, that's just basically a backdrop...I'm not even to the main point yet. TBC...
Posted By: kksnowbear

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/18/20 01:44 PM

Before I continue, let me say that the following discussion only applies to Intel boards/CPUs. Board designs based on AMD CPUs/chipsets have been offering PCIe 4.0 for a while now; in fact, I have one here. And believe me, what the extra bandwidth does for performance - especially storage - is genuinely remarkable. AMD has beat the pants off Intel for the first time ever in this respect (PCI Express generation). In fact, I've been very impressed with that whole AMD platform in initial testing - the Ryzen 3600 I used on it is a monster and was *very* reasonably priced (~$160, and it performs as well as - or better than - some of the best CPUs I have like 4790k, 6700k, 7700k in 3dMark's FireStrike gaming benchmark).

But, don't get me started...that's a topic for another time.

Anyhow, back to Intel and their implementation of PCIe 4.0. What's happened is that current chipsets and CPUs from Intel do not support PCIe 4.0, and will only do so within the next year if you follow a fairly tight path with few options. I've read they had trouble getting it to work with the current stuff, but the 'why' doesn't really matter: Bottom line is it's not supported for now.

So, what some board manufacturers have done/are doing is setting up their boards - using some hardware tricks - to support a limited number of PCIe 4.0 lanes on 400-series chipsets, when you change the CPU to an (as yet unavailable) 11th-gen Rocket Lake CPU.

This is not new - it was also done way back during 2nd-gen CPU days (2500/2700k for example). Board manufacturers put PCIe 3.0 switches on their boards to support it, once CPUs that came out actually had it. I have a couple of these in my shop, and they do exactly as claimed: When fit with a 3rd gen CPU, you get PCIe 3.0 support from the CPU for GPUs. But, just like now: When first released, the only CPUs you could get for those boards only supported the prior generation of PCIe (at that time, 2.0). And, since it's a hardware trick, there are limitations (more on this below).

So, back to today: If you bought a 300-series motherboard, you'll never see the PCIe 4.0 that a 30-series GPU uses on that motherboard/chipset/CPU. Sorry, but there it is.

And, even if you were to (or already have) bought into the brand new, latest and greatest Intel CPU platform, 400 series/10th-Gen Comet Lake...well, you're still not getting PCIe 4.0 either - unless you were lucky or clever enough to know all this, and bought one of the very few 400 boards that will actually support PCIe 4.0 *if* you then go buy a Rocket Lake CPU (that's 11th gen, for those following, and they're not released yet; won't be until likely sometime next year...).

That's right: If you bought the newest Intel board available right now, with the intent of going to a 30-series GPU...unless you're very careful, you're still not going to get the PCIe version that is native to the new Nvidia 30-series GPUs. And even if you get one of the **very** few boards that will support PCIe 4.0 in the future, it will only do so once you buy (yet another) new CPU when the 11th-gen units are out.

And EVEN THEN it's still not going to support PCIe 4.0 fully, because the 400-series chipset itself doesn't (and will not) have PCIe 4.0 support. Remember, I said this was done using a 'hardware trick'. It only allows for the board to use the CPUs PCIe lanes when you go to a Rocket Lake CPU - it doesn't add lanes or support to the chipset itself; all the other components still run at PCIe 3.0, even with the new Rocket Lake CPU. That means the only component on your shiny new setup that will actually run at it's full potential is the GPU. You're not getting the other (more exciting, IMHO) benefit of PCIe 4.0, which is increased bandwidth across the PCIe slots for things like storage, and that's what matters to the whole RTX IO function I discussed above.

In order to get "full" support for PCIe 4.0 (from an Intel platform), which includes the GPU and other on-board slots, you'll need to wait until (at least) the 500-series chipset boards are available, and *then* buy your 11th-gen Rocket Lake CPU.

Basically, this means if you intend to upgrade to a 30-series GPU and actually benefit from it's full potential, then not only do you need to be running at 4k resolution as discussed above...but, you'll also need to either wait for a while yet, then change out your motherboard and CPU, or do at least part of this change twice (including paying for two different CPUs).

I do hope all this makes sense - sorry it's so long but it's kind of a convoluted situation. I learned all this going through it the first time, back during the 2nd/3rd gen CPU transition and switch between PCIe 2.0 and 3.0. Looks like history is repeating itself.

I also genuinely hope this will help folks make better decisions about upgrades, amidst a never-ending river of new hardware.

I believe it goes well beyond "basic capitalism" when consumers aren't being given the whole story, and it could well lead to them having to spend more money to land where they want to be - all because the manufacturers aren't 'on the same page' with implementation of constantly changing technology. To dismiss this as "basic capitalism" does not explain or excuse the huge omissions of detail that could easily wind up costing you a lot of money. (And yes, I know you were kidding Lou - even of some folks don't). Kidding aside: These people don't care if you find out the hard way that they didn't bother to tell you some of this stuff. They want you to buy, and buy now - and if you wind up having to buy again to overcome the effect of their omissions...well, they're OK with taking even more of your money, too.

OK, rant off smile As a firm believer in open discussion, I welcome any questions/comments.
Posted By: Stache

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/19/20 01:32 AM

To summarize if I may...

To make FULL use of the power (ie. performance) of the 30xx boards.... (in a system that provides the basic functional requirements for power, space and cooling)

1) Need to be running a high resolution (probably 4K) or be doing VR.
2) Need an application to make use of Ray Tracing, DLSS, RTX IO
3) Need to be running application at a high frame rate
4) Need a mother board that fully supports PCIe 4.x (I read rumors Intel is going to skip PCIe 4.x and go right to 5.x)
5) Need a processor compatible with said mother board.
6) Need a processor with a high clock speed
7) Need an application using DX12
8) Need an application that is multi-threaded

Did I miss anything?

If a 30xx is used to replace an older card will there be any improvment? Most likely, but yes it does depend.
Will it be worth the cost - totally up to the user.

caveat emptor

If a person builds their own system it is their responsibity to ensure that all the pieces work together to meet their requirements.

If a person is purchasing a pre-built system it is their responsibilty to ensure the system meets their requirements.

If a person does not do this, then it becomes a learning experience for the person.

Consumers are rarely given the whole story.
But none of the above was hidden in the world of the internet.

And yes we live in time with a never-ending river of new hardware and software...is'nt it exciting!

...as I wait for WOFF 2020...

Will I be replacing my 980ti with a 30xx card, most likely.
Is my 980ti disappointing in any of the common applications I commonly run - Nope.
It is just time to modernize - like getting a new car.
We have been trained to like shiny new things.
Will I just plug in my 30xx card in my old system, sure (provided I have space for its length) and when the time is right I will build a new system to go around it.





Posted By: Hellshade

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/19/20 02:23 AM

Stache,

Pretty much sums it up. I did count at least 5 cards being offered at the $699 price point on newegg. I'm sure there's more on other sites. Obviously they were all out of stock since they sold out in 3 minutes...but there are vendors who are meeting the MSRP. It will just take some time for them to replenish their stock. I remember the 1080 line being out of stock a lot when it was first released as well. That's just how it goes.

You can always wait if your current performance is acceptable. You can always buy a generation or two behind and saves some bucks. I tend to skip a generation and then buy. From a 780 ti to a 1080 and now probably to a 3080. That's what works for me. I won't be doing it likely until at least Christmas or maybe even after the new year. If you get yours sooner, would love to hear your real world experiences with in it WOFF (hopefully 2020) and any other sims / games you may happen to run. Real world feedback is always more interesting than either the hypsters or the nick pickers.
Posted By: kksnowbear

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/19/20 02:40 AM

Originally Posted by Hellshade
Real world feedback is always more interesting than either the hypsters or the nick pickers.


Don't forget the 'bragging righters' who are just plain bothered when the cold, hard detailed facts don't necessarily agree with their own personal determination that they have to get in every lemming line that marketing creates.

Nobody said there weren't cards being offered at the MSRP, but a. You can't buy them at that price, because they're not available regardless, and b. (As I already said) the upper end manufacturers (Asus, MSI, eVGA) are all more than the MSRP. Zotac and Gigabyte are always at the lower end of the cost spectrum. For a reason.
Posted By: kksnowbear

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/19/20 02:51 AM

Stache - your summary is welcome, as are any comments and discussion because I don't believe in censoring what others have to say.

That being said, your summary doesn't really come close to covering everything I'm trying to convey in my detailed analysis. That's always the problem with summaries.

On one point, in fact - and this is just one point, there are others - I'd say you're completely wrong. To say that consumers are never given the whole story is just plain not true. It may not be always...it may not even be most of the time. But it does happen. And when people try to convince others that they "never" get the whole story....well, that's not helping anyone make informed choices. And it's completely disgraceful, in my opinion, to condone that sort of marketing BS by acting as if it's perfectly normal and never happens any other way.

On another point: You state "If a 30xx is used to replace an older card will there be any improvment[sic]? Most likely." At minimum, this appears in conflict to the comment from the review linked by the OP: "We won't belabor the point, but without ray tracing and/or DLSS, most games simply don't benefit much from the performance the RTX 3080 delivers." It would be more accurate to say "Will there be any improvement? It depends". Because...well, because it does.

(BTW I don't think you actually mean "intranet", FWIW)
Posted By: Stache

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/19/20 03:44 AM

Thanks kksnowbear, I have modified my post.

Yes and while I know the devil is in the details, been there many a time, IMO for most consumers that detailed analysis does not help make an informed decisions and that is the problem with detailed analysis.
But this is not the topic of this thread...




Posted By: kksnowbear

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/19/20 03:56 AM

Originally Posted by Stache
Thanks kksnowbear, I have modified my post.

Yes and while I know the devil is in the details, been there many a time, IMO for most consumers that detailed analysis does not help make an informed decisions and that is the problem with detailed analysis.


Once again, I would disagree. Your opinion is your own right, of course - but that doesn't make it fact. In my opinion, there are many - many - times that detailed analysis allows informed decisions. After all - you yourself just said a moment ago that it's entirely the responsibility of the buyer to know what they're getting in any case. If you assert that, then you are also essentially asserting they'd better darn well be doing detailed analysis, and making an informed choice (else they are failing their obligation as consumers...according to you, anyhow).

I would readily agree that plenty of people choose to be lazy or remain ignorant and not do the legwork, and I would assert it applies more so where computers are concerned. However, this doesn't make it a rule, nor a good idea. Like many consumers, I don't buy any "durable goods" without doing a reasonable amount of study.

At the same time, I do understand that less reputable manufacturers and companies would prefer a less studied consumer - for obvious reasons. I just don't think it's OK to treat it like it's the rule or a good idea.

EDIT: BTW, even if your intent is to summarize, it would be far more accurate to include that, if you're not doing any of the things in your list up top, then upgrading to a 30-series probably isn't worth it; and whether it's worth it will also depend on how many of those things you are actually doing. For example: The evidence available thus far indicates that if you're running 1080 (again, by far the most common resolution; more so that all others combined), and you're not running games that support RT or DLSS, then there is probably very little reason to spend $700 on a card that (by most informed accounts) isn't going to bring much improvement.

Again, this is what's wrong with trying to over simplify by summary: You don't explain why it depends, therefore, no one could say whether they would/would not benefit without more detail.

Oh, and yes, you missed quite a few rather important things (in the numbered list): The power requirements. The space requirements. The cooling requirements...just the more obvious ones I noticed. Again, the problem is trying too hard to omit important details.
Posted By: Hellshade

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/19/20 05:38 AM

Looks like 3080 FE will be back in stock next week according to Nvidia. Looking forward to reading some of the actual buyers reviews and experiences once they've had them awhile. Be interesting to compare the results to both hypsters and any nit pickers. Right now though, about the only thing people seem pissed about is that they can't get their hands on them because Nvidia let them get bought out by bots and are now being scalped on eBay for ridiculous prices. They better fix the bot thing. It's not doing them any PR benefit for sure. LOL
Posted By: Stache

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/19/20 11:19 AM

kk

If you want to have a discussion on summary / detailed analysis - start a new thread. No need to derail this one.

As you said - Your opinion is your own right, of course - but that doesn't make it any more fact than mine is.

And yes, I did not include, cooling, power or space requirements as they do not pertain to the topic of the summary.






Posted By: kksnowbear

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/19/20 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by Stache
kk

If you want to have a discussion on summary / detailed analysis - start a new thread. No need to derail this one.

As you said - Your opinion is your own right, of course - but that doesn't make it any more fact than mine is.

And yes, I did not include, sizing, power or space requirements as they do not pertain to the topic of the summary.


Yes, but I've supplied a ton of facts that show the reason for my opinions. The fact is, plenty of people make informed decisions as consumers based on detailed analysis - and your suggestion that they don't is absurd (and a little insulting to anyone intelligent, to be honest).

Sizing and space are pretty much the same thing. I said you omitted the power, space, and cooling requirements. These are absolutely relevant to your summary post, because you asked "Did I miss anything?". So I answered: Yes (and here's what you missed). Moreover, they're precisely relevant to the subject of the thread (as it should be), as they are crucial details which will certainly feature prominently in any informed review and purchasing decision. Omitting these details is asking for problems ("I bought this card, but it won't fit my chassis...)...it's also a lot like having discussion about a new car, but omitting any points about fuel economy, safety features, or automotive finishes.

In any case, they are relevant because you asked.

BTW, I only mentioned what I did about summarizing because it omits very important details, which many people will use and most will appreciate having. It is not derailing anything - just don't try to use 'summary' to omit crucial points.
Posted By: Stache

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/19/20 01:10 PM

kk again....

I would respectifully request, if you want to have a discussion on summary / detailed analysis - start a new thread. No need to derail this one.
For the record - power, space, and cooling are what I would consider basic functional requirements to get it to work at all in any system.
The scope of the particular summary was How to make FULL use of the power of the 30xx boards (in a system that met the basic functional requirements)
Posted By: kksnowbear

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/19/20 01:23 PM

And again, I only mentioned summary because you're trying to use it to omit important details, which are relevant to the OP.

You can't make FULL use of any GPU without the power, space and cooling it requires. So it's omitting relevant detail to leave those things off.

The other things you listed are not all 'basic functional requirements', and your own stated intent to build a 3080 without a PCIe 4.0 motherboard (then build around it) proves it: a PCIe 4.0 motherboard is not a 'basic functional requirement' of a system to use a 3080 GPU, but it's still in your list.
Posted By: Stache

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/19/20 02:02 PM

kk again....

I would respectifully request, if you want to have a discussion on summary / detailed analysis - start a new thread. No need to derail this one.
But I fear you have already fully derailed this.

Originally Posted by kksnowbear

You can't make FULL use of any GPU without the power, space and cooling it requires. So it's omitting relevant detail to leave those things off.
.

That all depends upon the scope of the summary.
If the scope was to summarize all items necessary to install and make use of the full power of a 30XX - then leaving off power, space, and cooling would not be appropriate.
But that was not the intended scope.

Originally Posted by kksnowbear

The other things you listed are not all 'basic functional requirements', and your own stated intent to build a 3080 without a PCIe 4.0 motherboard (then build around it) proves it: a PCIe 4.0 motherboard is not a 'basic functional requirement' of a system to use a 3080 GPU, but it's still in your list.

That is not what I said, which was...
Will I just plug in my 30xx card in my old system, sure (provided I have space for its length) and when the time is right I will build a new system to go around it.
The time will be right.... when there is motherboard for an Intel processor that fully supportes PCIe 4 or 5.
A PCIe 4 MB is on the list because it is needed for performance, I never said it was a "basic functional requirement"

Originally Posted by kksnowbear
And again, I only mentioned summary because you're trying to use it to omit important details, which are relevant to the OP.


The OP was asking about performance - which was why the scope of the summary was limited to perfomance and does not include basic functional requirements.
Originally Posted by Hellshade
Not exactly finding any bad reviews on the new RTX 3080. They dropped the price significantly and upped the performance. I was going to wait a few more cycles to update my old GTX 1080 but I'm starting to rethink that. I know WOFF is very CPU dependent but doesn't seem like it would hurt to have this kind of a GPU pushing the frame rates consistently higher.


If you have nothing new to add to the summary list - please end this.
Posted By: kksnowbear

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/19/20 02:15 PM

If it wasn't the scope of your summary to 'make FULL use', then why would you say that, and why would you ask 'Did I miss anything?"

And until you get a PCIe 4/5 board, you're planning to run a system that proves a PCIe 4 board is not a 'basic system requirement'. Thus, your list includes several things that are not 'basic system requirements', and therefore is omitting important detail because you leave off size, cooling and power constraints.

You just said "The scope of the particular summary was How to make FULL use of the power of the 30xx boards (in a system that met the basic functional requirements)" - which doesn't say anything about performance.

Nobody's derailing anything, my comments are all about 30-series GPUs and what (in my opinion, supported by facts as presented) the "reviews" are NOT telling someone who might like to make an informed decision. Perfectly on topic. The only problem is that *you* started with the 'summary' business (not me) - which is fine, but omits important detail. You asked if you were missing anything, I told you what you were missing. You posted the summary, you asked the question, so if anyone's derailing anything, it's you. I was simply responding to you. It seems what you want is to suppress any other perspective by calling it "derailing" - even when you asked for responses.
Posted By: Stache

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/19/20 02:29 PM

Sorry kk I figured most people here would equate power with performance.

Thank you for pointing out the error of my asumption, I have corected the line in the original post.

To make FULL use of the power (i.e. performance) of the 30xx boards.... (in a system that provides the basic functional requirements for power, space and cooling)

Regards,
Posted By: kksnowbear

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/19/20 03:10 PM

No problem. Glad we can discuss. For reference, though: Power in this context (that is, electrical power, measured in watts required from a PSU) is not at all related in any particular way to 'performance'. Some computer guts use ridiculous amounts of power without providing a comparable level of performance, while some perform exceptionally well without using a lot of power.

For example, the old 770 and 780 GPUs used about as much power as the new 3070 is said to use, but you can bet there's a huge difference in performance.

So, there really is no direct relationship between power and performance. It's entirely a matter of design and implementation.

The reason it's this definition of 'power' that matters (not performance) is that a lot of people might not have power supplies that can haul around a 320W GPU on top of their existing rig...which will significantly increase the "actual" cost of that fantastic steal of a $699 3080 card. A PSU like that can easily run well over $100 all by itself. And that's the context of my perspective: What the "reviews" aren't necessarily telling you about the actual cost of making a change like the 30-series GPU. To be clear, they're great cards no doubt. What I'm saying is that it's impossible to say how great a deal it is, unless you consider all the other stuff that could be involved, depending on your situation.
Posted By: RAF_Louvert

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/19/20 03:35 PM

.

This has been a very educational back and forth concerning the new 3080, at least for me it has been. The specs on the card look to be phenomenal, as does the release price, so it is most helpful to learn that there are a fair amount of other items that could ultimately impact the real replacement cost of upgrading to the latest technology. For me it would literally require an entire new build. biggrin

Thanks gents!

.
Posted By: Hellshade

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/19/20 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by RAF_Louvert
.
For me it would literally require an entire new build. biggrin

.


I'm half tempted just to make a new build anyway and give my current rig to my girlfriend so she can play her games. wink

Sadly, Elder Scrolls VI probably won't be out for another several years. On the plus side, it will be almost guaranteed to take full advantage of the ray tracing and data loading features. In the meantime, I can only imagine WOFF 2020 will run beautifully.
Posted By: Polovski

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/19/20 09:11 PM

Wow the 3090 £1595 here in the UK, but $1,500 in the US. As I said before they always just change the $ sign to a £ no exchange rate.

The 2080Ti was £1100 here at launch.

3080 is £689 and up to £899 for some models already.
Posted By: Hellshade

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/19/20 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by Polovski
Wow the 3090 £1595 here in the UK, but $1,500 in the US. As I said before they always just change the $ sign to a £ no exchange rate.

The 2080Ti was £1100 here at launch.

3080 is £689 and up to £899 for some models already.



Yup. As you go up the scale in performance, you pay progressively more for the difference. The 3070 is probably the price / performance break most people will opt for from the new cards. At least those not willing to wait to see what AMD is going to offer up. RTX 3080 looks fine for me. If someone's got the cash and wants a 3090, more power to them.
Posted By: kksnowbear

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/19/20 09:49 PM

A good deal of the cost difference in the 3080 models (£689 and up to £899 for some models) is mostly not about different levels of performance. The performance of all the 'base' (aftermarket) 3080s will be the same, plus or minus, broadly speaking.

It's about names, brand loyalty, features like custom shrouds, RGB lighting/effects, plus well-known differences in general quality and support between 'top-tier' cards and base model designs/manufacturers. Sometimes there are sales, promos, etc, which are obvious exceptions...but, generally speaking at least in the retail market, eVGA, MSI and ASUS are usually a bit more than Gigabyte and Zotac. For example, if I go to NewEgg and sort on price, Gigabyte, Zotac usually are at the lowest end, while custom models from eVGA, MSI and (especially) Asus usually fill out the upper end of the price scale. Depends on the exact model and features, more so than actual differences in performance.


Yes the 3090 will obviously be more, and the 3070 will be less. But the cost difference in various examples of the 3080 cards is a bigger delta than the performance would be, and the cost difference is due to features, reputation, quality, and support.
Posted By: Polovski

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/19/20 10:17 PM

Yes saw that those 899 ones are no faster than the 699 ones nothing special. Yes of course you pay more for more, but the point I was trying, badly, to make is it's not exactly dramatically "cheaper" than previous releases as they have been saying - and the none accounting for the exchange rate really irks me.
Each new generation model should be at roughly at the same price of the previous launch and the old one drops in price, but NVidia seem to have been hiking up prices (like Apple and Samsung with phones) each new generation. A new trend.
Posted By: kksnowbear

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/19/20 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by RAF_Louvert
.

This has been a very educational back and forth concerning the new 3080, at least for me it has been. The specs on the card look to be phenomenal, as does the release price, so it is most helpful to learn that there are a fair amount of other items that could ultimately impact the real replacement cost of upgrading to the latest technology. For me it would literally require an entire new build. biggrin

Thanks gents!

.


Yes, the 30-series cards are most impressive...but the absolute worst way to go about moving to that card is if someone were to buy a new 400 series board now, and a 10th-gen CPU, with a 30-series GPU (and much more so if they aren't running 4k).

Two better ways to go IMHO:

(This is mostly if you're on 4k or planning to move there anyway): Wait out Intel finally getting their stuff together with PCIe 4.0 support and then build a 30 GPU with a 500 chipset and 11th gen CPU
- or-
(If you're determined to do a new build in the next six months or so, don't require 4k, don't mind staying with PCIe 3.0 instead of 4.0, and/or prefer a more budget friendly, cost effective approach) Watch the 20-series GPUs; they should drop a good bit soon due to the 30s release. Get a 10th gen CPU/400 series chipset, they may well drop too depending on what Intel does with the 500 chipset and when (or maybe even find a real bargain on 9th gen stuff!) This applies more so if you can re-use your chassis, PSU, and other components, potentially saving hundreds.
Posted By: kksnowbear

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/19/20 10:30 PM

Originally Posted by Polovski
... the point I was trying, badly, to make is it's not exactly dramatically "cheaper" than previous releases as they have been saying.


Yessir, you are absolutely correct. It is not exactly dramatically cheaper than previous releases as they have been saying...but they seem to have done an incredible job getting people to believe it is.
Posted By: Hellshade

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/20/20 01:19 PM

Looks like with the right supporting hardware, the FPS (both average and minimum) is pretty consistently double what I am getting with my 1080. If the real world feedback supports it in the coming months, it's looking like as good a time as any for me to do some upgrading.

1080 vs 2080 vs 3080 benchmarks
Posted By: kksnowbear

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/20/20 02:13 PM

I can't wait for all the posts and comments saying that someone bought a 3080, but can't fit it in their chassis, or can't figure out why their system crashes all the time ("It ran fine with my 1080"). Or "I'm not getting twice the performance...my GTX1080 was running 120FPS on my 1080p monitor."

Yup, it ran fine with a 1080 that uses about half the wattage and generates roughly half the heat...now you were somehow able to force-fit a new 3080 card in there, and your 10-year old power supply (which was fine for your 1080) can't keep up with twice the load at twice the heat. "But I don't understand...it came with power adapters..." Yes, which as any engineer knows, magically increases your PSU's ability to provide rated power at specified temps...

And if you're running at 1080p (as the overwhelming majority are), you're just not going to see anywhere near twice the performance.

Almost no mention at all in many of these "reviews" about power requirements, space, cooling...which is and has been exactly my point. Everyone and their brother is parroting the same-ole same-ole, with little to no mention at all about the other factors that will absolutely be part of the equation.

Posted By: Polovski

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/20/20 05:48 PM

Well I'm a sucker for new GPU's so avoiding reading too many reviews currently wink

Go for it Hellshade, it will be a cool upgrade. For sure, it will definitely be an upgrade from a 1080. Probably the best way to go skip out a generation each time given the huge loss 2080's will cost owners when they come to sell.

One guy's comment made me laugh on that youtube

"It's literally 2-3x the performance of a 1080 for 2-3x the price <3" biggrin
Posted By: Shredward

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/21/20 11:09 AM

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Leake...0-for-over-twice-the-price.494706.0.html
Posted By: Hellshade

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/21/20 11:18 AM



Yeah, I'm not looking at the 3090 for that reason. Everyone has their own price performance cut off. For me, the 3080 looks good. Others might find the 3070 a better bang for the buck. But for those who want absolute top end and cost is no object, there's a choice for them too.
Posted By: kksnowbear

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/21/20 12:46 PM



Yup. As I've said many times, a lot of (most of...?) the people buying into the "latest and greatest" new hardware releases are simply after bragging rights, never mind what the technical details will tell you. Higher end stuff makes the extreme example obvious, but it's not just the highest-end stuff.

And, as your review shows, they often don't even know much about what it is they're buying into. Many 'reviews' are woefully lacking crucial detail, and that's assuming these folks even take time to do any research - many are just going with the hype. That's the way some people (especially kids) are today. They don't want to do research to make informed choices, and impulse buying for immediate gratification is rampant.

Among other things, even if you consider the (vanilla) 3080 a great bargain now, it's September...even waiting a couple months until the holiday sales might save $20 or more...

Yet there will still be already are plenty of people paying a ridiculous premium (IMO) for stuff just because it's the newest thing. It doesn't make technical sense, or even economic sense...but it starts to make sense if you understand that what these people want (and are willing to pay more for) is simply bragging rights.
Posted By: Hellshade

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/21/20 07:17 PM

Meanwhile, there still appears to be plenty of RTX 2080's in stock that you can buy at a higher price than the RTX 3080s for less performance.
Newegg RTX 2080s

Oh and look, you can buy GTX 1080s (2 generations ago) starting at $799. $100 more than a RTX 3080. I'm pretty sure that's the price they were selling them when they first released a few years ago. At least the refurbished ones are cheaper.

Newegg GTX 1080s

So much for the previous generations costing less.
Posted By: kksnowbear

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/21/20 08:27 PM

Anybody who pays that for a 1080 is an idiot. It's a worst case rip off, and that should be obvious. I sold a mint 1080Ti myself about a month ago for over $200 less than a 3080 is today. Just because someone prices it exhorbitantly doesn't mean anybody is stupid enough to believe they should pay that.

It's also not very smart to buy a card new that's already two generations back. Most anyone should know that. Performance comparisons are based on performance, not whether a card is used or new.

And as already discussed multiple times, the 30 series cards are out of stock atm, practically everywhere. So by the time you *can* actually get one, the prices for 20 series are expected to drop. Most would understand supply and demand works here to dictate waiting.

In the unlikely event the 20 series don't drop enough, then (wait for it...) don't buy one.

There are still likely far more people who won't benefit from a 30 series that much than those who will, just because of resolution and the overwhelming majority of games that don't use ray tracing. Factor in things like power requirements that could mandate a new PSU and/or a new chassis at $100+ each, and the actual, real equation is a lot more balanced than the hype suggests.

Incidentally, it's not necessarily about buying a new 3080, a new 2080, or a new 1080 right now. The question, generally, is whether its worth it to drop $700 on a 3080 at release, when there might not be clear benefit to most users, there could well be indirect costs (in the $100s), and there will probably be better deals soon enough. And that's not counting the whole lack of PCIe 4.0 support situation.

Also, if reviewers can state conclusions as to whether its "worth it", then it's obviously not just up to the individual. There is such a thing as a fool and his money. Just because everyone has a (limited) right to be said fool doesn't mean it's a good idea.
Posted By: kksnowbear

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/21/20 09:08 PM

By the way, 5 days ago when I looked at 2080 Super cards on NewEgg, they were $700-750, just like I posted in this very thread. So it's obvious the market's fluctuating and someone's trying to take advantage.

Scenario: Anxious kid with daddy's money goes looking to get one of the latest and greatest 30-series cards at NewEgg (NewEgg knows he's coming). Kid has no idea you can't get a 30-series card 'til he actually goes to look for it. Being impatient, decides on the 2080 Super instead (because...now). Boom, seller made an extra $50-100.

Just one example from hundreds of how the market is going to be right now.

EDIT: Also a reasonable chance the 30-series will actually go up, because...well, supply an demand, that's why...and because they can, and the lemmings will still line up.
Posted By: Hellshade

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/21/20 09:28 PM

Well now that Nvidia is officially acknowledging that they botched the 3080 launch and are taking steps against bot buyers, maybe they will get some cards back in stock. Can't get any real world feedback until the first adopters get their cards. Sounds like there will be plenty of them too. Nvidia says they got a bigger rush for orders than they typically get on Black Friday. Not sure if that accounts for the bot activity though.

Nvidia apologizes for botched launch
Posted By: Wodin

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/24/20 03:24 PM

AMD will be releasing their cards soon. I'd wait to see what they have.

I did notice 2070 8gig mini cards where going for £369 at Amazon. Not bad price for the power.
Posted By: Wodin

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/24/20 03:25 PM

With WOFF I found it's all about the CPU not graphics card.

I just bought a Ryzen 3300x a Gigabyte B550 MB, 2x8 gig memory at 3200 to replace my Ryzen 1600, Asus B350 mb and 2x4 gig at 2666 memory.

Though the new CPU has only four cores not 6 but it is a good bit faster than my old 1600 and is at a darn good price, everyone seems to rate it. I pre ordered it 119.99, the MB cost 99.99, and the memory, cos I went fancy Corsair ICUE rgb to go with my keyboard, mouse mat and mouse, was £67.

I will then wait for the new graphics cards to drop in price one thats PCIE 4.0 (will have to stick with my RX480 8gig card which is still good enough) and then my system will be future proof for abit..oh I do need an M2 drive though

Won't be till mid October when I can get it up and running as CPUs's aren't due till then. WIll be interested to see how WOFF fairs with upgrades. Hopefully the expansion wont be to far off then:)
Posted By: Hellshade

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/24/20 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by Wodin
Won't be till mid October when I can get it up and running as CPUs's aren't due till then. WIll be interested to see how WOFF fairs with upgrades. Hopefully the expansion wont be to far off then:)


I'm excited for you. Sounds like a nice bit of extra horsepower for you. And just in time for WOFF 2020? Nice one-two punch upgrade!
Posted By: RAF_Louvert

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/24/20 04:29 PM

.

Wodin, those new upgrades you have coming will take you a good long way into the future! I am getting started on a similar upgrade myself. I just yesterday picked up an Asus Z490-A PRIME mobo and an i5-10600k CPU from Micro Center, and am waiting for a Newegg order containing a pair of 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 RAM sticks and two Western Digital BLACK SN750 NVMe M.2 2280 500GB PCI-Express 3.0 x4 SSDs. These will replace my aging ASUS Sabertooth P67 mobo, i7-2600K CPU, 16GB of DDR3 1600 RAM, and SATA hard drives. I too will keep running my current GPUs, which are a pair of EVGA GTX 970s with an HB SLI bridge. With the new components I should be relatively futureproof for a while too. And, when the prices get better down the road, I may grab a 2070 Super or two and see what kind of boost those give me. smile

.
Posted By: Wodin

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/24/20 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by Hellshade
Originally Posted by Wodin
Won't be till mid October when I can get it up and running as CPUs's aren't due till then. WIll be interested to see how WOFF fairs with upgrades. Hopefully the expansion wont be to far off then:)


I'm excited for you. Sounds like a nice bit of extra horsepower for you. And just in time for WOFF 2020? Nice one-two punch upgrade!



Thanks Hellshade and RAF_Louvert. Always reassuring when your choices get a thumbs up.

It was a choice between this or just get a RTX2070 mini or a new monitor as I need one current one is on it's way out. I decided not really worth getting the 2070 if the rest of the system isn't upgraded and running PCIE 4.0, so went with what I mentioned. I rarely get this kind of spending money so the right decision was important..
Posted By: 77_Scout

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/25/20 12:53 AM

Originally Posted by RAF_Louvert
.

I just yesterday picked up an Asus Z490-A PRIME mobo and an i5-10600k CPU from Micro Center, and am waiting for a Newegg order containing a pair of 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 RAM sticks and two Western Digital BLACK SN750 NVMe M.2 2280 500GB PCI-Express 3.0 x4 SSDs.
.


Almost exactly the same stuff I am currently assembling here. I am reusing my recently purchased RTX2070. Here's to hoping we both see some booming performance results! Hope to have it all together and running in a few days.
Posted By: kksnowbear

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/25/20 11:22 AM

So, as of this morning, the 30-series cards are (still) out of stock; probably will be for some time yet (weeks?) And, of course, it's perfectly expected that the 20-series cards are going to be higher than the (non-available) 30 cards...for now. Believe it or not, people are buying 20-series cards right now, and naturally someone's going to profit on it. Whether it makes sense to buy one ATM is another discussion (hint: it doesn't).

30-series cards being listed at $699 - or $6.99 for that matter - is absolutely meaningless. If it's not available at the price shown due to being out of stock, they could say it's $20...you can't buy one at that price, because...well, you can't buy one regardless.

So, pointless to say that's what they cost. In reality, what they cost is what they'll be marked at when they are in stock. It could always be higher than what's listed now while they're out of stock...and, if the laws of supply and demand hold any value at all, it should go up.

Meanwhile - and this is also obvious - it's equally pointless to look at 20-series prices right now, because they can full well be expected to drop, the moment the 30-series becomes available. And I should think most informed people know better than buying one, now that Nvidia released the 30 cards, before the prices are reality.
Posted By: RAF_Louvert

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/25/20 11:38 AM

.

Actually kk, you can jump on eBay right now and grab a 3070 for $1000, a 3080 for $2000, or a 3090 for $3000+. That 3090 sounds like a pretty sweet deal. screwy You would think the manufacturers could have foreseen the bots buying up everything right out of the gate to resell at these ridiculous numbers.

By the way, thanks again Sir for all the help and advice on sorting out the choices for my latest upgrades, much appreciated. cheers

.
Posted By: Hellshade

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/25/20 12:06 PM

Lou, Nvidia really botched the roll out. Big time. Supposedly they are putting measures in place to stop the bots from doing it again. Hopefully they succeed. eBay scammers certainly aren't helping anyone.
Posted By: RAF_Louvert

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/25/20 12:10 PM

.

No Hellshade, they certainly are not helping. It's giving a big black eye to Nvidia and their entire introduction of what will likely be the gaming GPU to go after for the next couple of years.
Posted By: RAF_Louvert

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/25/20 12:13 PM

.

And if I were a cynic I might say it was all planned to see just how much the public would be willing to pay for the new technology. But I'm not a cynic - just saying, that's all. biggrin
Posted By: kksnowbear

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/25/20 12:41 PM

lol Lou

I stand corrected. I guess I should've said "You can't buy one, regardless...unless you're totally frakkin' stupid..."

(And I know you know this...) The point is, 30-series cards in reality are not as cheap as the hype claimed (yet), they are not cheaper than 20-series (yet), and 20-series cards are not in reality more expensive than 30-series, because you cannot buy a 30-series (unless you're stupid). No doubt someone's done it, however. (See my earlier comments re: bragging rights, ad absurdum).

You know, I found myself wondering about that sort of 'market manipulation' as well. Wouldn't surprise me.

Of course, you are more than welcome. Always glad to help smile Perhaps your experience will help some folks understand that I don't just help those who buy from me, and that I often 'consult' on brand-new hardware in addition to used stuff. I'd prefer to help save money (while still getting performance) by utilizing previous gen hardware, but that's not to say I can't help with even retail stuff smile
Posted By: Hellshade

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/25/20 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by RAF_Louvert
.

And if I were a cynic I might say it was all planned to see just how much the public would be willing to pay for the new technology. But I'm not a cynic - just saying, that's all. biggrin


I can't speak to what was in their minds. I would be surprised if they did plan this but then again, I'm surprised they didn't have a plan to fight bot purchases. So there you have it. wink
Posted By: Polovski

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/26/20 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by RAF_Louvert
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No Hellshade, they certainly are not helping. It's giving a big black eye to Nvidia and their entire introduction of what will likely be the gaming GPU to go after for the next couple of years.


Lou you mean for the next sixth months until the half-price-twice-as-quick 4000 series launches wink ? These Nvidia boys and girls do not dally.
Posted By: RAF_Louvert

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/26/20 01:35 PM

.

LOL! Yes Pol, I believe your time estimate is likely far more accurate than mine.

.
Posted By: kksnowbear

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/26/20 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by Polovski
Lou you mean for the next sixth months until the half-price-twice-as-quick 4000 series launches wink ?


Okay, if that happens, I'll be buying brand new retail. biggrin biggrin biggrin
Posted By: Witchy Woman

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/26/20 10:38 PM

Geeze the 20 series hasnt even been out that long and I just bought a 2070. In most cases these 80 series cards are overkill and I cant justify the price when I could even max out a games graphics on a 60 series before my 70 without problems. No need for a 30 series for me at least for a year or more. Some people just like to spend loads of money and boast that they have the newest gear when its not even needed. Especially since social media took off.
Posted By: Hellshade

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/26/20 10:56 PM

Originally Posted by Witchy Woman
. Some people just like to spend loads of money and boast that they have the newest gear when its not even needed. Especially since social media took off.


Honestly, I don't see people on here bragging that their card is better than anyone else. What I do see are folks who act like they are smarter than everyone else because they don't buy higher end cards. Makes no mind to me what you buy. If the 070's work for you, I think that's great. You should get whatever works for you and I support that. I don't think more or less of you for your choice. I'm just happy you found something that makes you happy. Why do you feel the need to make condescending judgements about people who have different priorities than you?

With all due respect, the snobbery isn't coming from people with high end cards. It's coming from people who feel the need to be condescending to those who bought and are enjoying them. It'd be really great if that stopped considering it adds nothing of value to the conversation.


Posted By: kksnowbear

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/26/20 11:49 PM

"Value" is in the eyes of the beholder. I'd wager there are at least one or two who have read this who happen to share my views, and might appreciate the value that a different perspective brings.

At times (including earlier in this very thread), some folks have been good enough to express their gratitude for the insights that don't necessarily agree with others. Sounds like they value the input.
Posted By: Hellshade

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/27/20 02:11 AM

To whom it may concern...


Description: approval
Attached picture I dont approve.jpg
Posted By: kksnowbear

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/27/20 02:40 AM

Originally Posted by Witchy Woman
Some people just like to spend loads of money and boast that they have the newest gear when its not even needed. Especially since social media took off.


Of course, you have a very well taken point. Unfortunately, sometimes people refuse to acknowledge the value in others' perspectives which differ from their own. It shouldn't mean anyone is attacked personally, unfortunately. But that's somewhat telling, of itself (from my own perspective, of course).
Posted By: Hellshade

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/27/20 12:17 PM

I would have been great to share reviews of the 3080s, good and bad, to help folks make informed choices about what card works best for them. But it seems it's been hijacked into "if you don't buy the gear I have or what I recommend, you must not be as smart as me and you must be doing it for some base reason such as bragging rights." Not really helpful to anyone. More facts and less desperate need for attention would have been great but I think that cause is lost at this point.

Feel free to lock the thread, Pol. I won't be following it anymore in any event.
Posted By: kksnowbear

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/27/20 01:14 PM

Nobody hijacked anything, and nobody said anything about "I'm smarter than you".

The facts - from the reviews this thread is about - show things that don't necessarily agree with those who run out and spend money on the 'latest and greatest'. That's all.

There's plenty here that benefits a number of people - a few said so, and some have (or plan to) act upon it. Advice, prudent and timely, based on facts from the reviews.

Whether anyone likes it or not, the fact is that the 30-series cards aren't the huge benefit they're hyped to be, to the majority of people, when you look at the total equation. They're great cards, by some measures, and I've said so more than once.

I also presented a number of measures whereby they aren't what the hype says - again, when considering all factors.

Regretful if a thorough perspective upsets you so.
Posted By: Polovski

Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in - 09/28/20 01:44 PM

OK thanks for bringing up the topic Hellshade I will close it now. I think we are all aware we can buy a 3000 series card, or not, we all have free will, and our own needs.

Some people like to buy the fastest thing because it is the fastest, (I'm guilty of that sometime) it's not to brag but so they can whack up all the eye candy to max and enjoy. Some like to own the "state of the art" of whatever it is, because they love tech. Some want to brag, and some don't want to spend money - it's all fine as long as you earned the money honestly who cares what you do with it, or not.
Each to their own as long as no one is being hurt it's fine.
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