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OT - Cockpit quiz
Posted By: Sandbagger
OT - Cockpit quiz - 02/19/19 02:29 PM
Hi all,
I'm now working on the next model and thus far have nearly completed the cockpit.
I still have to add the pilots shoulder harness, which will be attached to the seat mounting frame through the additional linen 'wind break' behind the pilots head,
No prizes for guessing which aircraft it's for,
Mike
Posted By: RAF_Louvert
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 02/19/19 02:33 PM
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It looks very Fokker D.VII-ish to me. It also looks amazing Mike.
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Posted By: MFair
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 02/19/19 02:46 PM
As I have inside info I will keep it to myself. As Lou says, amazing!
Posted By: Polovski
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 02/19/19 03:21 PM
Looks fab Mike was going to say DR1 or EV but the front gives it away not a rotary so more like DVII
Posted By: Fullofit
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 02/19/19 03:39 PM
It’s a Taube!
Posted By: RAF_Louvert
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 02/19/19 03:52 PM
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Where is that eye roll emoji? A Taube - pffft. You're a taube! JK
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Posted By: Fullofit
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 02/19/19 04:11 PM
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Where is that eye roll emoji? A Taube - pffft. You're a taube! JK
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I am taube, you are glue...
Posted By: RAF_Louvert
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 02/19/19 04:12 PM
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LOL!
That's odd, now I'm suddenly craving squab.
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Posted By: Fullofit
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 02/19/19 04:18 PM
I am also selling these fine leather jackets.
Posted By: RAF_Louvert
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 02/19/19 04:20 PM
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Anything in a 42 Regular? Or an irregular, if there is a significant price savings.
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Posted By: Fullofit
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 02/19/19 04:23 PM
10% off on the one with the back shredded by a tank’s tracks. I’ll throw in a dusty fedora ... and maybe a whip.
Posted By: RAF_Louvert
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 02/19/19 04:26 PM
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ooooooo, tempting. The distressed look is in. Do you offer free shipping?
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Posted By: Fullofit
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 02/19/19 04:55 PM
Only to Puerto Rico. I feel these guys always get left out.
Posted By: RAF_Louvert
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 02/19/19 05:08 PM
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darn - so close
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Posted By: Sandbagger
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 02/20/19 09:33 AM
Heh he - You two should be writing comedy scripts
I'm building two aircraft (one stripped and one complete) and yes, it's a Fokker D.VII.
Maybe I should have stuck to the thread title I was going to use - 'A pair of Fokkers'
Posted By: Fullofit
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 02/20/19 10:06 AM
Sandbagger, there is no need for this kind of language. We know very well what we are.
Looking forward to the build updates. Cheers!
Posted By: RAF_Louvert
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 02/20/19 10:46 AM
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HEY! I resemble that remark! If I wanted this kind of verbal abuse I'd go back to church.
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Posted By: Sandbagger
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 02/20/19 10:48 PM
Hi all,
The additional linen baffle (wind break) that was fitted to some Fokker aircraft is done.
The shoulder straps passed through slots is this baffle and down to be attached to the cross bar of the seat frame bulkhead, which had at the top the standard linen baffle.
The coloured shot below is from the Canadian restoration of a war prize Fokker D.VII. It was comprised of parts from different Fokker D.VII aircraft, including OAW built Serial No:6506/18, 8318/18 and 8502/18 and was partially restored in 1963.
The B/W shot is of a similar baffle fitted to a Fokker DR.1.
Mike
Posted By: Fullofit
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 02/20/19 10:56 PM
Looks like some dastardly Hun broke his nose on the windshield.
Mike, what is a wind break for? So that the rear fuselage doesn’t “scoop” the air out, or so that there is no backdraft and the German pilots didn’t have to wear those girlie-looking scarves?
Posted By: RAF_Louvert
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 02/20/19 11:12 PM
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Mike, that is looking great. And I love those old photos showing all the details, so cool.
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Posted By: Sandbagger
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 02/21/19 07:47 AM
Hmmm - nice theory but no - it was to reduce the amount of airflow into the rear of the fuselage and prevent structural damage.
The Fokker DR.1 was new in service and was flown by Heinrich Gontermann.
On the 29th of October 1917, Heinrich Gontermann took off in a Fokker Dr.I, Serial No.115/17. He had not yet recovered fully from a bout of dysentery. Nevertheless, he was anxious to try his new airplane, despite misgivings about it.
After a few minutes, he tried aerobatics at 700 meters altitude. He pulled out of the second loop and dived into a left turn. The upper wing collapsed and broke completely off. His airplane plunged into the ground.
Gontermann was pulled from the wreck alive, though with severe head injuries after slamming into the machine gun breeches. He was taken to the Jasta's medical bay, where he died from his injuries several hours later.
Some sources say his death occurred the day after his accident.
Gontermann was only one of several German pilots killed testing the new Dr.I. As a result, Fokker was accused of shoddy construction and directed to change production methods for the manufacture of the plane.
Posted By: Mike Dora
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 02/21/19 08:57 AM
The upper wing collapsed and broke completely off.
Thanks SB, a familiar photograph. One thing I’ve never quite understood from the story, though, is if the upper wing became detached, how come what’s left of it (the cantilever box spar plus an aileron) is clearly lying on top of the wreckage?
Posted By: Sandbagger
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 02/21/19 10:23 PM
I suspect the leading edge (Plywood) and struts stayed attached, but the ribs, rear spar and linen covering went walkabout.
Posted By: Sandbagger
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 02/23/19 05:56 PM
Hi all,
Moving onto detailing the engine.
The cooling of the engine cylinders was carried out by cooled water from the radiator being fed by pipes to the water pump, located on the bottom, rear of the sump. This water was pumped through a pipe and through interconnected stub pipes at the bottom of each of the cylinders.
The water was then pumped up through the cylinders jackets and then out through the interconnected stub pipes at the top of each cylinder, from where it returned front of the engine and back to the radiator for cooling.
On the kit part the pre-molded coolant pipe for the cylinder jackets looks unrealistic, as it extends through and between the cylinders (which should be separate), presumably to form a solid fixing base for the cylinder block.
I've cut away the pipe completely and replaced it with plastic rod.
A magneto was located on each side at the rear of the engine. These were driven by the engine through a split drive shaft. Attached to each magneto were six ignition leads, which were routed through support tube attached to each side of the cylinder block. Each cylinder ignition lead exited the support tube through an aperture and was then attached to the cylinder spark plug (two per cylinder). The pre-molded support tubes supplied in the kit seem under sized, so I replaced them with micro-tube.
The sump of the engine was essentially a ‘wet’ sump, as the oil reservoir was in the rear and lowest part of the sump. The oil was drawn from this reservoir by the oil pump (located at the rear of the engine) and distributed through the engine, after which it returned to the reservoir to be recirculated. The forward part of the engine sump appears to have been open, as can be seen through the open apertures and the front of the sump in the following photograph. An oil contents sight glass was located on the sides of the oil reservoir at the rear of the sump. Some engine installations had an oil tank installed in the engine bay and outside the engine, although this particular kit does not have this feature. I've drilled out the apertures and created a sight glass on each side - the 'glass' will be made of PVA adhesive once the engine is built.
Next inline will be
Intake manifold nuts
Spark plugs (late type)
Fuel priming cups
Complete timing gear
Ignition leads
Engine controls
Mike
Posted By: Sandbagger
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 02/23/19 09:36 PM
Hi all,
To enhance the engine detail I replaced the engines pre-molded locking rings for the fuel inlet manifold with the ‘Taurus Models’ engine intake manifold nuts (3211).
The kit does not have spark plugs to fit to the six cylinders (two per cylinder), however the cylinders do have a pre-molded location hole for the spark plugs.
The plugs to be used are from the ‘Taurus Models’ engine spark plugs (late type) (3204) set.
Mike
Mike some amazing after market add-ons are available these days it seems. I jumped over to Taurus Models web site to see what they offer and was quickly impressed.
For those interested, try this link:
Taurus Models Web Site
Posted By: Sandbagger
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 02/25/19 07:14 PM
Hi all,
I decided not to use the 'Taurus' spark plugs after all as although they are good, attaching the ignition leads to the tiny end of the plug was difficult to do without leaving it looking unrealistic.
Instead I've made the spark plugs from 0.8 mm and 0.4 mm diameter 'Albion Alloys' brass tube with a 0.31" aluminium nut from 'RB Motion'.
This way the fine lead wire I use to represent the ignition lead can locate inside the 0.2 mm bore of the 0.4 mm tube.
The fuel primers for each cylinder are built using the 'Taurus Models' fuel priming cups (3219). They'll be painted when fitted to the engine.
Mike
Mike;
making those miniscule spark plugs from scratch is a stupendous exercise in patieince given the fact you have to make so many.
Posted By: Sandbagger
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 02/27/19 06:21 PM
Hi all,
Rob:
They were tricky to make but not as tricky as the cylinder fuel primers!!
The engine is progressing although there's a way to go yet, not including application of the weathering effects:
Cylinder fuel primers
Fuel manifold and locking rings
Coolant pipes
Ignition leads
Oil filler pipes
Exhaust
The oil sight glasses were made by dropping PVA adhesive into the holes - it dries clear (good for making windows etc).
Mike
Mike are you planning to display this model with an open engine compartment? That would be cool to see a mechanic working on it. I think this engine details would be a shame to fully hide or obscure given all the work you are putting into it.
No, don't tell me! I'm enjoying the suspense!
Best Regards;
Posted By: Sandbagger
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 02/28/19 09:28 AM
Hi Rob,
This engine is the test bed for the second Fokker D.VII and will be more or less covered by the forward fuselage panels.
The next engine will be visible when I build the second aircraft, which will have the internal structure and engine etc totally exposed
I know it seems senseless to cover the detail on this engine, but at least I know it's there,
Mike
Posted By: Sandbagger
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 03/01/19 08:33 PM
Hi all,
Well the engine is done.
There are details I've not added as this model will have the engine fully enclosed.
The second Fokker D.VII will have more detail as its engine will be fully exposed,
Mike
I really like the serial numbers on the exhaust manifold pipes, and the beautifuuly fitted wiring harness work and copper fuel feeds. Very nice detailed work.
The weathering over all is top notch and reaaly gives a feel of a well used oily engine.
Another great piece Mike. I never tire of following your builds.
Best Regards
Posted By: DukeIronHand
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 03/02/19 12:42 AM
Absolutely amazing work sir.
Posted By: Fullofit
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 03/02/19 01:41 AM
Mike, does the engine work? Wow!
Posted By: Sandbagger
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 03/02/19 09:39 AM
Thanks guys.
It's not a runner at the moment as it has a bent valve stem - fortunately the crown of that piston is not damaged - I'll strip the timing gear down and replace it then it should be OK
Posted By: Fullofit
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 03/02/19 10:24 AM
Ah yes, the life of an Ack-Emma.
Posted By: RAF_Louvert
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 03/02/19 02:25 PM
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daaaaaaamn. That engine looks so real I can almost feel the scraped knuckles as the wrench slips off one of those greasy bolts.
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Posted By: Fullofit
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 03/02/19 02:53 PM
Ouch Lou, did you get a tetanus shot for it?
Posted By: RAF_Louvert
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 03/02/19 06:51 PM
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Fullofit, with the amount of mechanical work and house projects I do, my tetanus shot is always up to date, as are my medical insurance payments.
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Posted By: Sandbagger
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 03/06/19 08:40 PM
Hi all,
A few more bits done.
'Properplane' Heine propeller treated with 'Tamiya' Clear Orange then Hull Red. Weathered with 'Tamiya' Weathering Master Set B (Rust) and 'AK Interactive' Kerosene wash.
'GasPatch' Spandau 08/15 extended handle guns with 'Alclad' Gun metal, then Steel. Weathered with 'AK Interactive' Kerosene wash and 'Tamiya' Rubber Black.
Figures assembled and primed for painting - Anthony Fokker ('Aviattic'), Photographer and camera ('Black Dog').
Mike
Posted By: Fullofit
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 03/06/19 11:45 PM
Mike, I'm hesitant to ask, but what sort of aftermarket nuts are you going to attach to Mr. Fokker?
Almond or pecan!! They are the healthier choice!
The prop looks paticularly nice
Posted By: DukeIronHand
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 03/07/19 01:27 PM
I was just going to comment on the prop. Certainly fine work.
Posted By: Sandbagger
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 03/09/19 04:00 PM
Thanks guys.
'What sort of nuts' - no, you've lost me there, but knowing you I'm guessing there's a joke in there somewhere
Mike, I particularly like your new Avatar!...I just noticed it now.
Posted By: Sandbagger
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 03/09/19 09:02 PM
Hi Rob,
Just so we remember what it looks like
I've applied the 'Aviattic' linen effect lozenge to the first Fokker D.VII now.
Under the decals, although it's difficult to see in the shots, is pre-shading.
I've yet to apply the kit decals and weather it all in,
Mike
Mike it looks amazing. Really museum quality work there!
Posted By: Sandbagger
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 03/10/19 09:34 PM
Hi all,
The fuselage sides and top decking had a brown glaze applied, but nowhere else on the aircraft.
I've added that and now I'll add the personal and national markings,
Mike
Posted By: Sandbagger
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 03/12/19 07:53 PM
Hi all,
The engine with radiator assembly is now fitted, along with the cockpit coaming panel and the lower wing.
Mike
looking very nice Mike. Is the white tail plane area all paint or decal?
Do you have an image of the decal sheet?
Posted By: Sandbagger
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 03/14/19 09:17 AM
Hi Rob,
The white areas are airbrushed paint.
The lozenge is all 'Aviattic' decals with Wingnut decals on top.
The kit also supplies 5 sheets of lozenge and rib tapes, which I didn't use,
Mike
Posted By: Sandbagger
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 03/14/19 05:53 PM
Hi all,
Apart from final weathering, the fuselage front end is done,
Mike
Posted By: MFair
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 03/14/19 07:09 PM
And a fine front end it is. Superb work as always.
Posted By: DukeIronHand
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 03/17/19 10:53 AM
What are you using for the rigging wires?
Posted By: Sandbagger
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 03/18/19 07:53 PM
Hi all,
The rigging used is 0.08 mm 'Stroft' and 0.12 mm 'Steelon' mono-filament (fishing line).
The pre-rigging is done for the rudder, elevator, ailerons and undercarriage cross bracing.
Mike
Posted By: MFair
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 03/18/19 08:08 PM
Mike, I think I will just quit. Absolutely the best!
Mike;
If it's not too much trouble, could you identify which is the 0.08mm and which is the 0.12? possibly repost the pics with an arrow to identify.
Also wondering if you apply a drop of glue to the short end of the line and then pull it into the tubing to make the seal. I would think that might be a clear way of doing it or maybe you have another approach.
Best Regards
Mike, I think I will just quit. Absolutely the best!
Don't give up Sir! I'm looking forward to seeing your finished model. It's looking very good up to this point.
Posted By: DukeIronHand
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 03/18/19 09:25 PM
Absolutely amazing. Trying to picture my big paws attempting that delicate work.
But I can’t.
Posted By: Sandbagger
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 03/18/19 09:51 PM
Mark:
You dare!! We all want to see your Halberstadt.
Rob:
The 0.08 mm line is used for cockpit internal control cables, cross bracing, and external flight control cables for rudder, elevator, ailerons and if required tail skid steering.
The 0.12 mm is used for external structural rigging, such as cross bracing, flying, landing and incidence cables. Also undercarriage bracing.
The lines are secured into the micro-tubes with CA adhesive. The line is looped back through the tube and CA applied at the tube exit. Once set the free end of the line is cut away using a shielded razor blade.
Mike
Posted By: MFair
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 03/18/19 09:59 PM
Mike, I think I will just quit. Absolutely the best!
Don't give up Sir! I'm looking forward to seeing your finished model. It's looking very good up to this point.
Robert and Mike, I jest. The Halberstdt is nearing completion and I will post pics. But you have to admit, when viewing work of this Caliber it makes one want to “take my marbles and go home” as we say here!
Posted By: Sandbagger
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 03/19/19 07:52 PM
Mike;
Those Gespatch turnbuckles are amazingly detailed. I believe you once stated they are 1/48 scale which if I am not mistaken is being used on a 1/32 scale model. Is that technically a sizing issue in terms of accuracy of scale or am I missing something. Can you explain?
Posted By: Sandbagger
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 03/20/19 08:23 AM
Hi Rob,
It's just that their 1:32 scale turnbuckles seem over scale if you compare them to turnbuckles on a real WW1 aircraft.
I use the 1:48th scale as they are more inline with the actual size,
Mike
[quote=Sandbagger]Hi Rob,
It's just that their 1:32 scale turnbuckles seem over scale if you compare them to turnbuckles on a real WW1 aircraft.
I use the 1:48th scale as they are more inline with the actual size,
Mike
That's interesting. Seems the manufacturer has it wrong then.
Thanks for the explanation.
Posted By: Sandbagger
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 03/20/19 12:05 PM
Hi Rob,
Turnbuckles differed in size dependent on the aircraft and rigging size, but I think for single/dual seat models, the 1:48th is more in scale.
The 1:32nd turnbuckles would be, I think, more suited to larger models, such as the AEG, Gotha and Felixstowe,
Mike
Posted By: Sandbagger
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 03/21/19 02:23 PM
Hi all,
Using 'Flory' fine clay wash for weathering.
Just like the 'Karate Kid' - wash ON ----------
Mike
Mike, at that stage it looks like it fell in the mud!
Posted By: Sandbagger
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 03/21/19 04:13 PM
Now it looks just plain pretty!!
Posted By: Fullofit
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 03/21/19 05:34 PM
Robert, don’t you mean plane pretty? Because it is.
Mike I'm always full of ?'s, among other things!! What did you wipe off the clay with, and was there any concern about lifting the decals during the whole process?
Posted By: Sandbagger
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 03/25/19 02:43 PM
Hi Rob,
Before I apply the wash I will have applied all of the required decals and sealed them with airbrushed semi-clear 'Tamiya' acrylic (X35) or 'Alclad' lacquer (Light Sheen (ALC-311)).
Doing that not only seals the decals down but prevents any edges from being lifted during wash application.
Once the clay wash has been applied and has dried, I use either a fairly stiff and dry brush or very lightly dampened tissue/brush/cotton bud to wipe off the wash.
Once I'm happy with the effect I re-seal the decal surfaces again with 'Alclad' Light Sheen.
Mike
Posted By: MFair
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 03/25/19 10:44 PM
Mike I'm always full of ?'s, among other things!! What did you wipe off the clay with, and was there any concern about lifting the decals during the whole process?
Robert, Mike makes it sound so easy! I can assure you that following his directions, you can wipe off a decal! I know, I’ve seen me do it! It’s not Mikes fault. As I say, he cannot hold my hand. Besides, I think he uses some kind of miracle fairy dust or something. The man is the master.
MFair
Is it possible that you didn't sufficiently cover the decals with sealer that is resistant to water.? That could cause the decal to raise.
Best Regards
Posted By: Sandbagger
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 03/26/19 08:49 AM
Hi Rob,
Mark is correct that decals can lift.
It's really the preparation that's key.
Smooth gloss surface, decal on, seal with several light coats, apply wash then re-seal.
I have had decals lift, crack etc, but it's usually been due to the type of decal used. For instance, some modelers, including me, have found that the 'Cartograf' supplied decals in the Wingnut Wings Sopwith Camel kits may be prone to problems when being applied.
However, once down and sealed most decals should not lift,
Mike
Hi Rob,
Mark is correct that decals can lift.
It's really the preparation that's key.
Smooth gloss surface, decal on, seal with several light coats, apply wash then re-seal.
I have had decals lift, crack etc, but it's usually been due to the type of decal used. For instance, some modelers, including me, have found that the 'Cartograf' supplied decals in the Wingnut Wings Sopwith Camel kits may be prone to problems when being applied.
However, once down and sealed most decals should not lift,
Mike
I guess I have been lucky in the past. The only time I had trouble with them is having them split/separate when floating them off of their backing and that was either my fault for not sufficiently soaking them or because of manufacturing defect. One point you make is so true, that some brands are much better than others.
Posted By: Sandbagger
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 03/26/19 04:51 PM
Hi all,
The photographer and his camera are done.
I still have the other figure to paint yet,
Mike
Very nice Mike! I see the photographer has a shutter bulb in his hand. Can I presume you will be running a cable to the camera?
Posted By: Sandbagger
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 03/27/19 09:26 AM
Hi Rob,
Yes that's the plan once everything is on the display base.
The twin aileron control cables (with turnbuckles) that are routed from the cockpit and fuselage to the underside of the upper wing (both sides) are done.
Also the engine exhaust and propeller are now fitted,
Mike
Posted By: RAF_Louvert
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 03/27/19 04:08 PM
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B-E-A-U-tiful! Yet another one of your masterpieces soon to be on display, Mike.
.
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Isn't it though!! Look at the nice grain effect on the prop and the nut and bolt detail.
Posted By: Rick_Rawlings
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 03/27/19 06:35 PM
Very nice work, as always!
Posted By: Sandbagger
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 03/28/19 09:26 AM
Thanks guys.
This is the first of two D.VII's for the final model.
I've just got one figure to paint and fit the wheels.
I'm fitting natural rubber o-rings to replace the pre-molded tyres, but they've not arrived yet.
Once that's done I'll post some completed shots before moving onto the skeletal model, which will also require some scratch building,
Mike
Posted By: Mr_Dirt
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 03/28/19 12:51 PM
Very Very nice some fantastic work beautiful as always.
Posted By: Sandbagger
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 03/28/19 11:10 PM
Hi all,
Anthony Fokker completed.
Just the tyres and wheels to do and this one is done,
Mike
Mr Fokker looks to be the iconic salesman with his sampler in hand! I just love that image. Excellent piece of work and I particularly like the vest paint work.
Posted By: MFair
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 03/28/19 11:25 PM
Mike,
In my humble opinion, that is the best figure you have done! Stellar work, that one. As Robert says, the subtle strips, shadows and shading on the vest, breeches and coat are really top notch. 3 Huzza’s.
Mike, what company made the Fokker figurine? It must hzve had a fair number of parts due to the model aircraft and it's amazingly detailed.
Posted By: Sandbagger
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 03/29/19 06:57 PM
Hi Rob,
The figure is by 'Aviattic' and is simple to construct.
The model aircraft is 3D printed so no construction required,
Mike
Hi Rob,
The figure is by 'Aviattic' and is simple to construct.
The model aircraft is 3D printed so no construction required,
Mike
Mike, if that model is 3D printed, with no construction, then I am even more impressed since painting between the wings etc is extremely confined space to work in. Wow!
Posted By: Sandbagger
Re: OT - Cockpit quiz - 03/31/19 12:13 PM