Battle of Midway Game?

I have seen some rumors that this series is going to expand into the Pacific Theater after Kuban, specifically the Battle of Midway. Is this true? And if so, why I am not seeing more about it?

More than a rumour.



Jason Williams on the BoS website There are a few more recent posts, indicating they are currently researching ships etc.

As for why we aren't seeing more about it, the developers are still working on Kuban. I expect we will get more details (planeset etc) for MIdway when Kuban is finished.

I just googled "IL2 battle of midway" and the first 10-15 posts were all about it.

Not sure that I would have done Midway as a move towards the Pacific. I'm happy that they are going there, but Midway is not a deep enough campaign to keep everybody busy for the length of time that Stalingrad seems to have. Or even CLOD. How long will it take to tire of fighting over that mile long little island.
Guadalcanal. That's what they should be doing. The fighting in the air, at sea and on the ground makes this a fantastically muli-faceted battle that I'd probably never get tired of. Wildcats at first, but eventually P-38's and P-40's. SBD's, too. But soon TBF's, B-17's, B-25's. Intercepting Betty's out of Rabaul, night missions out of Henderson Field in a PBY. Close support missions for the Marines. Attacking Tanaka's destroyers with dive bombers.
Zeros, Vals, Kates. All of the same airplanes used at Midway. After all, the landings in the Solomans occurred only two months after that so if they have started working on planes it would be fairly easy to switch over to this. They could add Rabaul so that people flying Japanese would have a land base to use instead of always launching from a carrier. That would add another dimension to it. You could also fly B-25's escorted by Lightnings to hit targets on Rabaul and now the Japanese would be flying defensive missions.
There's just simply more that can be done with this scenario.
If only I could sit down and convince them. Please, is anyone listening....(the sound of crickets is heard. A lone sagebrush is quietly blown across the street of a deserted old west town.)

I suspect they chose Midway because doing complex island maps as well as the new carrier tech would involve more work than they could justify taking on. As always, it comes down to limited resources...

Yep. A Guadalcanal campaign would never see the light of day without some early work that is transferable to that battle area.


Wheels

While Midway is by far my favorite WWII battle to study and recreate, I agree. As others said, there may be technical limitations that make it too hard to work on both naval/island modeling and carrier ops simultaneously. But, for offline play, anyway, a Midway campaign would give you only 2-4 missions if you stay historical. Even if you go more "what-if," you are looking at most a four day engagement, with 1-3 missions per day.

Really, a campaign based around the New Guinea or the CBI (maybe the AVG) might have been a better pick. Still on opportunity to work on a lot of coastal areas, no requirement to transition immediately into carrier ops, and the opportunity for a fulfilling campaign between air forces that were at rough technological and numerical parity.

The biggest issue with Midway, like others have said, is the liimitations of any kind of campaign. The entire battle lasted less than 72 hours so a real in depth fight would be hard to re-create, especially with the amount of resources needed. It also suffers from the issues of available bases. Midway would obviously be rendered but no Japanese base, other than on carriers, would be available. The IJN would of course have A6M2s, Vals and Kates while the USN (and Marines) would have Buffaloes, Wildcats, Dauntlesses and Devastators along with US B-17s and B-26s. The planeset would be small but that is fine, for an add on. The problem would be creating IJN and US task forces. The Yorktown class would have to be made as well as at least one early style US heavy cruiser and probably two different US DD classes. The IJN would be more complicated since there were multiple different carrier types to include the Shokaku, Hiryu classes as well as the Kaga and Akagi so there are four different BBs. You would also have to add something like the Kongo Class, a couple of different IJN cruisers and a couple of different IJN DD classes. This is doable but there was some battle with getting this in earlier IL2 Pacific games. Immersion would be ruined if there was some kind of compromise.

If this led into a Guadalcanal campaign it would be better. The entire thing lasted almost a year and had both land and naval forces involved. You could easily have multiple battles over several areas. The Cactus Air Force, the shootdown of Yamamoto, raids on Rabaul and Bouganville and the air combat around the islands to include the sinking of the Hornet and Black Cat strikes on the Japanese. It would require a lot more aircraft, to include P-38s, P-39s, probably P-40s, B-25s, B-17s, later B-24s as well as F4Fs and SBDs and TBFs. You could even add PT boats for missions against the Tokyo express.

It could be pretty cool.

The real issue is their "Battle of Somewhere" formula, Battle of Stalingrad game has little of Battle of Stalingrad other than planes - if one don't consider the "what if" like Fw 190, Stuka cannons, 1 ton bombs

Well, since going to Pacific was strictly Jason's brainchild, It's a miracle that he managed to convince his Russian Lords of 1C to consider financing such a limited project at all. Actually, even this one is still not cast in stone yet. The ultimate go or no-go will depend on success of BoK, though I think they'll do it. It still will be a proof of concept though, hopefully for bigger things to come (Okinawa sounds promising, but I'd love the Guadalcanal / early PNG for gameplay reasons mentioned above).

See, now, to me Okinawa is another tiny island concept with no gameplay depth. I'd have to put it in the same category as Midway with all the same issues. Worse, really! The Japanese wouldn't even have bases to fly from. Well, of course, unless they're defending, then all the U.S. planes with be off of carriers. It would be Navy only. A very limited planeset. Midway in reverse.
Now if we are going with the U.S. defending Okinawa, you'd at least have Mustangs. But, then where are the Japanese coming from? Would they add part of Japan? Now THAT would be interesting. Escorting B-29's to Japan. Don't see that happening, though. If people are saying that they wouldn't want to build all of those islands for a Guadalcanal campaign, then they certainly wouldn't want to build Japan.
We'll see what they decide to do. Hope they make the right decisions because I, like so many others, would love to see a Pacific air war sim. That might really get me back into flying flight simulators.

Yeah, Okinawa is a really bad choice for any sort of realistic/balanced air campaign.

Again, there are options (Philippines/Leyte Gulf, CBI), if they want to do a late war game. Island in the middle of now where, though, while easy(ier) to model, does not give you much gameplay.

Don't get me wrong; 90%+ chance I purchase any PTO-based flight sim, even if it was built around the carrier raids on Wake Island . . . but Guadalcanal, New Guinea, and the Philippines would provide much more game play than what is proposed so far.

I was under the impression the new "IL-2" series was a online airquake game (created by, and for Alberts online group) but all these grandiose expectations here tells me otherwise. Has it matured?

IL-2, air quake? Are you sure you're thinking of the right flight sim?

Not sure those invested in the series would agree about "airquake" term. Unfortunately, it seems unlikely that the team would be able to create anything more than the shell of a Pacific theater even if BoK were to become enough of a success to enable such an add-on. Obviously the floating of Pacific theater aspirations could represent a "hook" to entice buyers into supporting the series' current offerings. I cannot imagine getting involved in fantasizing variations on Pacific scenarios when current offerings are so limited in depth and scope.

It kind of was at the beginning, but looks like people who pull the strings at 1C were smarter than him and when he was shown the door last year, Jason took over and started moving the product in more serious direction for both offline and online crowd. As long as the man's in charge, things are progressing where they should in my opinion, even though I'm not naive and I know we won't be getting a big-scale Pacific sim in the near future from any developer. Even the tiny Midway, however, is an important precedent.

For me concentrating on carrier warfare and starting with Midway as the most famous battle seems to be a reasonable approach to make a first Pacific war sim with limited resources.

Shouldn‘t it be possible to expand the battle of Midway scenario to a decent full early war carrier campaign with limited amount of additional work? Just as they added the Stalingrad summer and fall map and campaign later. Wake, the Gilbert and Marshall islands all only have tiny landmasses, the latter can be used again later for a 1943/1944 campaign. The Battles of the Coral Sea or the the Santa Cruz islands wouldn’t require any land bases at all. All doable with largely the same limited planeset a and a few more ships. Enough gameplay and both sides are well balanced.

Again this show the flaw of the "famous battle" formula.

Antoninus, maybe you aren't following what I think the problem is. The fact that you think Coral Sea would be a good idea tells me that.
Yes, sounds great . Carrier battles. But no land bases. How often are you going to attack an enemy fleet before you start to want to do something a bit different? You don't feel that doing nothing but that will get old after a while? I want a sim that I'll be playing for a long time. These damn games cost a lot of money. Sixty or seventy dollars and then add on more planes. I want to be playing it for months and even years.
I'm glad to see that some agree with me. Thought I was gonna be alone with that opinon when I posted it, actually. I know you think it sounds great, but believe me, attacking the same carriers again and again, every time you sit down to play the game, WILL get old.

Long flights over water to find elusive AC carrier group, anyone? How large is the map? Want to fly PBY as part of the search? Maybe a Devastator once group is located? How about flying an SBD to complete the carrier takedowns? Little exposition is being given to actual gameplay options here. Until the developer gives some indication as to how gameplay would work in a Pacific war scenario there is no way to gauge how serious a consideration the Pacific theater is.

Coral Sea and Santa Cruz were fought within range of land bases in New Guinea and the Solomons, respectively, and land based aircraft did play a role (if largely ineffectual at the tactical level) in those engagements. I will take whatever PTO sim I can get, and I suppose you could get away with an abstract water only map for those fights, but, for a realistic representation of Coral Sea or Santa Cruz, you would really need that Solomons map . . .

If the Midway game actually has a few maps representing small atolls such as Wake, the Gilberts, and/or Marshalls, you could have a somewhat satisfying campaign starting with the early carrier actions and culminating in Midway . .. it would still be short relative to the Eastern Front, but the nature of naval-air operations was that carrier pilots tended to fly fewer combat missions/per day (in the sense of a mission where there was a realistic chance of enemy contact, vs routing CAP and ASW patrols) in theater than their land based counterparts.

The issue is that the entire Battle of Midway lasted less than three days. Much less if you think about it. The main battle took place over a 24 hour period. Yes Coral Sea and Santa Cruz were primarily naval battles but again, other than throwing in different ships (add the Saratoga and Wasp, Shokaku and Zuihu) the fight would be pretty much the same. Stalingrad was a months long event with different kinds of missions. This would turn into a niche thing rapidly with players. Most wouldn't even consider taking up a Dauntless or a Kate since it will be nothing more than Air Quake with Zekes and Wildcats duking it out.

It needs greater context to bring in players. It is an ok starting point, or a 'beta' to try out carrier ops with the engine but for it to be a true game that is worth the cost of a serious upgrade (read cost of a full priced title) then it needs to be a battle of the Central and South Pacific. It's either that or make it a fight for the Phillippines with a ground and air component. Personally I would like this.

I think the next chapter should be called 'The Slot'. Would not only encompass early fights (Guadalcanal proper) but also follow on with airwar around and over Rabul. There were some carrier battles also, so having 'The Slot' would allow a wider range of tactical environments than simply 'Midway'.

I'd buy that. The fighting in 1942-43 has been ignored for the most part. It was truly the last time that the Allies and Imperial Japanese fought on an almost equal basis, especially in the beginning. By the end of 1943 the Allies began to take total control of the air and the quality of the Imperial Japanese pilots and aircraft started to really decline.

As long as there are F4Us in it, I'll buy next
Slot is great, Okinawa is great, Mariannas are great, Philippines too, whatever place with enough land for a plausible ground battle, even on a small scale, combined with seaborne ops is great, but if there are F4Us involved it's instant deal

There is a lot of really bad things you could accurately say about the new IL-2 series as well as the developers. But airquake game isnt one of them.

As for midway. They have to get carrier groups and carrier landings working. It will come with a midway map and an empty water map and a fantasy campaign. That would be my guess at least. Maybe several other maps with some islands with targets you can attack like storage facilities, harbors, refineries etc.

It seems you don't understand how that works: The idea is to limit the scenario to the smallest scale possible, so as to sell you multiple full price games with little content - basicly the "DLC" concept taken a step further; Next-Gen DLC, if you will - while also drawing in the gullible masses via flashy names like "Stalingrad", "Moscow" or "Battle of Midway", which everybody knows.

Simple, really. Everything else is just noise. Hey, why after all would they sell you a fully featured game like "1942: The Pacific Air War" when people today are glad to buy or even pre-order half assed unfinished products for 60+ bucks? People are getting what they deserve.

No doubt they will maximize profits, but, considering that the price of video games has not scaled up with inflation (let alone the increased personnel cost of making them), the reality is a decent video game probably needs to retail for a lot more that $50-$60; my guess would be in the $100-$120 range. Most studios, it seems, are getting around the sticker shock of such a price increase by spreading it out over DLC, multi-part releases, etc. But there is a reason very few serious simulations or strategy games have been released these last 5 years or so, and it is not because of any malicious intent on the part of softwafe programmers or game designers.

But it HAS scaled up, you are contradicting yourself there. It doesn't matter whether you pay more for the same offer or pay the same for less. And actually, even still, absolute prices have increased with "inflation", at least in Euroland.

Aside from that, the "malicious" intent is also there in the form of, yes, they are going to sell it for what the "market" is willing to pay for it, and that part of the equation they have much improved to their advantage through getting much better at marketing shenanigans and more effectively utilizing through social media their fanboi army that is gladly doing for free what no company some 10 years ago could have afforded doing without a gigantic marketing department on the scale of some Hollywood studio. Some of them might even be paid forum shills or developer alt accounts, though that is probably not even necessary. Then also heavy shilling by giving free "review" copies to flightsim sites and especially Youtube channels. And going the "Early Access" route, which means nothing other than releasing unfinished software with no obligation or timetable to finish it, with the customer paying for the "privilege" to be a beta - or alpha - tester.

Another reason why less is on offer flightsim-wise as time goes on is also that people are getting dumber each day. No, really. The overall market is getting relatively dumber by more and more influx from the masses into the computer gaming hobby, but people as such are also getting absolutely dumber, because they are being engineered that way.

Chip on the shoulder verified.

All subsequent opinions will be taken with a bowl of salt.

Build that straw man up!

Do you have a problem? Did I hit a nerve with you? You are the sort of people that are allowing this hobby to go to $hit, by immediately trying to deflect ANY criticism anyone would voice against degenerate developements that are taking place.

Do you have a problem? Did I hit a nerve with you?

Keep building that straw man! The real people who are allowing this hobby to go to #%&*$# are the people like you who trod around with a massive, pedantic, self-defeating chip on their shoulder spouting virtually baseless nothings, touting them as "criticism" when it's obviously simple bashing, doing everything you can to defeat and bankrupt the handful of developers who actually give more of a #%&*$# about this hobby and genre than you do and are creating massively niche products at a near guaranteed loss.

You've got nothing to offer that's any deeper than the suppositions you come up with out of whatever angst you feel... Just saying...

Thanks for confirming you are just a marketing shill. You have not provided a single counter point anywhere that would address the issue at hand. All you are doing is damage control. How much do you get paid? Do you get free "test" copies? Where can I apply? Nah. I can't shill against the truth. Just can't do it. I leave that to shills like you.

Oh, stupid me. You said so yourself in the other thread: "We don't deal with Loft anymore". Case closed. Maybe YOU try to make a good flightsim for a change, instead of shilling against customer criticism on the forums, how about that? But if it's true that there is only 1 programmer, and all the rest of you are marketing shills, then I begin to understand what is going on here. Holy crap.

I'm a marketing shill? You're #%&*$# hilarious. You don't know me and you should really grow the #%&*$# up, man. That is THE absolute most sophomoric thing you could've done.

I didn't go point-for-point with another grown man (over the internet, mind you...) because nothing you've said has any true merit or substance but you have evidently written whatever you suppose to be true in to stone. I've read a bit of your post history and it illustrated to me that you live in a world of flight sim cognitive dissonance, you have no fundamental understanding of software development (I understand not everybody has had experience in that industry...), project/resource management and that it wasn't going to do me any good (nor did I owe it to you...) to explain my stance on anything because throughout your membership you've shown that you're not really interested in hearing the opinions of others or having civil discussions. You're not interested in new information. You're not interested in a "single counter point anywhere" not that you really made a point about anything in the first place... You're interested in the circle-jerk. You want an echo chamber. You want to baselessly suppose and assert those suppositions as dear fact - a "fact," that if disagreed upon, you will continue to assert as fact by doing your own damage control - accusing other people of being "shills," insult others on how they were "bullshitted" when you yourself are completely uninformed allthewhile trying to mitigate the burden of proof off on to the people you're insulting. Constant "REEEEEEEEEE MARKETING!!1!" It's disingenuous and frankly, completely immature.

You result to ad Hominem and creating straw men because your position has no real logical foundation, no merit and no substance. You attempt to use the assertion of your own supposition and insulting others as a validation of whatever hurt, angst or passive aggressiveness underlies in your posts.

SimHQ is generally a pretty welcoming community (especially the WoFF guys) but it's guys like you who give it the reputation it has throughout all of the flight simulation communities out there.

What in the god awful #%&*$# are you on about? We, as a community of players, don't have to deal with the design #%&*$# that Loft created. Loft's vision for IL-2 was #%&*$# terrible with gamey stuff like the unlocks, pilot levels, lack of co-op, etc.

Take your tinfoil hat somewhere else, bud. Again, you don't #%&*$# know me so don't act like you do.

And by the way, #%&*$#, I'm a 25 year old father of two from eastern South Dakota who is a computer support specialist for a non-profit.

Shilly enough for you, dumbass?

You are still not making any argument. And really, "tinfoil hat"? You feel the need to bring that up in a mere flightsim discussion? You should work on your PR skills. The "tinfoil hat" you are throwing around is but a good indicator that I'm right on target.

From what you said in the other thread:



So, where is the tinfoil hat here? And don't say "We" was "You" and the members of the flightsim community who were not happy with "Loft", like any number of community members would know who "Loft" is. You have blown your cover yourself, no "tinfoil hat" neccessary here.

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

Oh, and now you are making an edit to your post just to throw an insult at me. You are really the wrong man for your job, seeing how easily you are getting desperate. But don't worry, I won't report you. I actually like it when people get down to it. If it was up to me, you could throw around insults all day long. Only helps to support my point. Thanks for playing.

You don't know what cognitive dissonance is. But that is typical for people who are throwing around big words that are above their pay-grade. Cognitive dissonance, in this case here, would be pretending to be a member of the customer flightsim community while in fact being a shill for a software studio. That automatically leads to cognitive dissonance if you are not careful. In fact, it seems like you are having a meltdown right now. Maybe you should take a break, "buddy".

My job as a computer support specialist..?


Report away, I'm new here and I'd be happy to discuss this interaction with an administrator.

Holy #%&*$# dude... You're crazy.

I went ahead and filed the report for you.

Oh, just now saw this gem now. So, what reputation has it? Not being a mere marketing forum like all the other controlled developer forums are? Yeah, tough $hit, isn't it.
In fact, SimHQ was close to becoming that at one point, until ED was becoming so megalomanic that they actually banned the main moderator here of this forum lol. That kinda changed the tact. And it was for the better, really.

Yeah dude. I think you should take a break. You are really getting involved, talking about your family and stuff, while I was only discussing flightsim matters.

I don't appreciate being accused of something I'm not so I thought I'd provide a little clarification for you.

You don't know me and your accusations are not only false, they're completely immature and inappropriate.

You don't need to say another word. I'll wait to hear from an admin.

Thanks for the warm welcome to SimHQ.

Yeah. Now, after you trying to curb stomp criticism by members by dropping arrogant one-liners ala
, you are now crying out for "the admin" to save you, like a little child. And try to bring the whole reputation of the forum in with "Thanks for the warm welcome to SimHQ". You truly are working in marketing. Normal people do not act like that. Here is my advise for you: If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. Or, don't dish out what you can't take yourself.

Again, you don't know me.

I don't even click on your links. Stop posting pictures of yourself on the net for no good reason, if that is what you're doing. That is retarded. God damnit, people these days.

OoooooKay...

Debate, even lively debate, about IL-2 Box's content, development, marketing and sales, is welcome here. Characterize the game all you like. However, do NOT characterize other members here. Address the content of the posts, not the authors.

There are people who like things about the game / company as they are, and they are welcome to express what they like about them here.

There are people who dislike things about the game / company as they are, and they are welcome to express what they dislike about them here.

Some people even fall into both categories.

There are helpful links included below in my signature.

Carry on.

Been a while since I viewed this thread. Unfortunately, i’ve seen this pattern all too often. My observation is that on many forums someone makes an observation directly or implicitly critical of a product. The observation(s) may or may not be valid. Then another forum member objects to the given “complaint”. What I look to see is initiation of a personal attack. That to me is the “tell”. Eventually the recipient of the attack succumbs to an urge to react in kind and the thread gets closed. I have seen past instances where threads got closed but posts launching personal insults were allowed to remain. I suspect that members consider their posts carefully when they believe that initiation of a personal attack will be looked for. It may be that some individuals are on lookout for other posters who might seem easy to get a rise out of. Perhaps they find that to be entertaining. I think that if such attacks are launched in defense of a product they have potential to damage image of the product. It is especially counterproductive if some special knowledge of the product can be implied from the post. If a criticism is valid it is best to just accept it and move on. If the criticism is inappropriate there will be multiple owners of the product who will present logical rebuttal. If personal attack is the only way to defend against a complaint I consider it a mark against the attack initiator and any collaborators. I don’t see anyone benefiting from viewing posts that launch personal insults.

A video game cost $40-$60 in 1990. Just adjusting for inflation, that is $75-$115 in 2017 dollars. Add in the fact that it is more expensive, in terms of man/hours, to code a modern video game, and prices in excess of $100 become much more justifiable.



The rest of your conspiracy theories aside, selling for what the market will support is not "malicious," that is what game companies are supposed to do. That is how they make a profit to pay investors and employees, so they are able to continue making games.

Lifeblood for simulations is evidence of improving fidelity over time. “Games” differ from sims in that buyers mostly seem to accept mediocre AI as long as eye candy continues to improve, My guess is that, somewhere along the way, some sim houses decided that quicker and larger profits would be had if development funds were spent on eye candy rather than on sim fidelity. Similarly, some developers may have decided that online combat could substitute for lack of offline AI progress. What may have been forgotten is that online combat is possibly always going to be subject to connection speed and that new players must be able to take as a matter of faith that their game experience has not been compromised by hackers. I suspect that many simmers would pay far more than typical mass market game prices if the products on offer demonstrated improving fidelity over time.

A lot of wacky misinformed statements here. If you want to know the truth I'll answer here while I'm awake for the next hour.

Jason

If you're still awake... when does the P-39 appear?

Well, Jason, I feel as though I might have started this whole mess when I suggested that the Battle of Midway might not be a deep enough campaign to keep us playing for a long time. I suggested, maybe, the Solomons. Yikes!
Anyway, any validity in my statement, do you think? Or do you have plans for Midway that will keep us involved for a while? It's just that, at the price of games today, I look for lots of bang for my buck. Others, too, I'm sure.

Piper,

The P-39 will be released in our final update of the year in December. Along with the A-20 and Yak-7. The P-39 was built by our Lead Modeler who unfortunately has had some health problems that has slowed his work on it. Poor guy has been through the ringer lately. I don't have a big enough team to pick up the slack.

Pooch,

The air war in the Pacific was different. What can I say? Do users really want a Solomons Career over Carrier warfare? That's literally the choice I have to make with my resources. Ideally I'd have both, but I need a much larger budget. However, I have taken such push back into consideration and I'm re-evaluating what we can do in this regard.

About pricing - our Standard Edition product is always $49.99 and we often do sales on all or most of our content. We try to balance our needs and the community's wallet as best we can. And we make just enough to keep going. This is not a hugely profitable business.

For those that are complaining and continuing to making snide remarks about the product and our team, you must remember that I was not in charge of the Sturmovik product until 13 months ago. For 3 years I sat in a corner watching bad decisions and trying to help the team survive, but failing to influence the product to change or the public to give it a chance. I started a new business and was actively seeking a path out of something that wasn't working for me. That is until things changed and I could gain control of development again as I had with ROF. That wasn't a picnic either, but ROF turned into a stellar product over time. In that time, I have completely re-arranged our priorities, technology, feature-set, plane-sets and am about to embark on a new adventure greatly expanding our ability to make content. I've pushed the team to their limits and made our budget stretch as far as I can without breaking. I've made the product and the team do a complete 180-degree flip. But unfortunately making such changes takes time to catch on and I still have two arms tied behind my back when it comes to making new stuff you guys want.

This job has cost me a marriage, affected my health and ruined many a perfectly fine day. If anyone can do it better, please start a software company and show us how it’s done.

Jason

I for one appreciate your efforts... please keep up the good work

Jason, I'm not a customer of the product, but judging by the volume and characteristics of the traffic in this sub-forum following your assumption of leadership... I'd say that you accomplished a lot of positive change there. In a field of endeavor where it is virtually impossible to please everyone, that is no small feat. I hope you get/keep the health issue(s) under control.

Jason - I would like to my sincere thanks for your personal dedication in turning Il-2 BoS around and to realising your vision.

Just last week I had possibly one of the best gaming experiences ever, flying VR online with squadmates on the stunning Kuban map and grinning like an idiot at BEING IN a WW2 fighter, seeing all the little details and then nearly falling off my chair in terror when the human-flown 109, who I was chasing through clouds, barrel-rolled into me and took my wing off in a mid-air....

If you'd told me 20 years ago this sort of immersive simulation tech would be possible AT HOME I would have assumed you were drunk and/or mad.

I think I speak for many happy simmers who probably now are just having fun 'flying' Il-2 BoX and enjoying what you guys have created - (a far cry from the Dark Days of the Il-2 BoS forum wars)

Please do ignore the moaners - they are now in a minority!

Looking forward to wherever the franchise goes next!

PS: Can we have VR added as a patch for Rise of Flight - pretty please? Could even be a paid upgrade (w/ extra skins?) - say 'Rise of Flight: Ultimate Edition'. Its crazy that there is no WW1 sim with VR where it would be absolutely perfect...

If we ever do anything in WWI again, we'd have to bring the Great War to the Sturmovik engine. The ROF code is too old now and too many things have changed (for the better). It indeed would be a blast.

Jason

Thanks. I just want users to be happy. Meds and more meds keep me alive....

Jason

You and the team are doing a great turn around of IL2. There is still some work to do, AI, an easier ME and delivering a Co-op mode that can be hosted on a personal PC(not a dedicated server). Improving these things along with the new career generator and release of BOK will draw more customers.
Meds are not the answer. Eating well, excercise and Jeremiah 29:11, Mark 11:24 are the answer, but not necessarily in that order.
Not that I am perfect, obviously I am not, but once you get your health and your heart in order, pursuing your businesses success is much much easier and more satisfying. Praying for you.

Be Blessed,
S!Blade<><

Well, I haven't bought the new Il-2's because I'm just not all that crazy about the Eastern Front setting. But every time I see screenshots I think , "Daaaaammmmnnn!" It sure looks purty. And I think ROF still looks pretty good. So, you know how to make a flight sim. Sorry to hear it's been so hard on your life. I'm sure the community hasn't (clears throat) had anything to do with that.

I agree with Blade Meister, Jason you are fulfilling our flghtsim dreams, but if it's getting to you just stop.

I worked with you for a short time. Your a great guy and can prolly make money selling ice to an Eskimo,
but take a break man and take stock where you're at. In the end,iIt's only a game.

Jason, you really did miracles with IL2 when you took the leadership. Thanks a lot for that. I already had a lot of respect for you for RoF, and now that we're seeing more clearly what happened with IL2 and how it has come back so beautifully ever since you have taken the lead back, you're definitely there at the top of flight sim heroes. You're sure keeping us happy. It'd be great if that could happen without making you miserable though, that's a real pity. Leading a dev studio is a tough job though. My sister and her partner lead a AAA studio working for Sony, and even after almost 2 decades of developing successful game after successful game, they still have to fight for the studio's survival every single time they complete one project and move on to the next one - it seems there's never a time to rest in that industry.

Jason I was quite a detractor in the early days, not without some justification with the way it was run imo, but you have really turned things around now and BoX is an excellent product with, hopefully, a great future. I've just bought BoM and it really is a quality sim, and will be purchasing Kuban in the near future.

+1 on any return to ROF (and, yes, everyone, I know it's far down their list, and probably not even on the list).

As far as Midway and carriers, bring 'em on! That's what I'm sitting here waiting for.

Hey Jason,

Big fan of IL2 here. I'll buy whatever you guys market and look forward to pacific theater.

Keep your spirit up. I used to work in B2B s/w so can relate to some of your frustrations. Seems you guys have turned it around and the rewards and satisfaction of your vision coming to fruition have arrived.

Greg

The whole reason I even bought any of the Russian themed stuff was to support your project in the hopes that you would eventually make your way to the Pacific. Knowing that is on the horizon is exciting news indeed! I'm excited to see what the future holds for your project. Use your best judgment on which project to pursue...it has been spot on as far as I can tell.

+1

Same here, until seconds ago. I ordered BOS. Not an Eastern Front fan but man BOS looks so good. And I need something to justify my Oculus Rift purchase

I've got BoS and BoM... dont care for either of them but im hoping they manage to do a pacific game. I'll continue to buy their products to support that agenda. It's hard to recommend them to other people though. Maybe with Jason back in charge things will change.

One of the things that worries me about an early war Pacific campaign is how bad the Wildcat was. I fly American planes. So, I'll probably be in an F4F. It was slow. It couldn't maneuver. It couldn't climb. The only reason U.S. Navy and Marine pilots had any success in it at all is tactics. U.S. pilots flew well as a team. They stuck rigidly to the leader and wingman philosophy. The Japanese....not so much. With them it was every man for himself. They didn't even communicate by radio. Most didn't even carry them. Saburu Sakai admitted that the radios were one of the first things taken out of the airplanes when they reached the squadron. This, is a major reason for massive losses in Japanese air units.
So, where am I going with this? As a Wildcat pilot I can expect no help whatsoever from my A.I. buddies. I doubt very much if one of them will get into a Thach Weave with me if we are jumped by Zekes. Online, I'm not expecting it to be much different. So, one on one with a Zero. I'm going to die a lot.
So, yeah, I'd rather be in a Hellcat. And yeah, a Corsair would be even nicer. But, okay. If it's Midway, I'll still buy it because I'm very interested in the Pacific air war. But, yeah, I'm gonna die a lot.

You won't be alone then Pooch, I'm sure a few of us will be swimming...especially me 'cause I actually really like the Wildcat...at least in the old IL2-Pacific co-ops I used to fly in...steady gun platform, hand cranking the gear up...fun fun...oh and easy to bail out of.

I agree Pooch. I do love flying the underdog, but then unless we can simulate the historical tactics we're not really flying a simulation of how it was flying them back then. As a solo flyer (my baby daughter really won't help with that situation for a long while), I really wish we could see AI progress a bit - it's still stuck in such a raw and basic state nowadays, but then again it does take some serious R&D to make some of the academic AI research usable for video games, and there are very few experts (or just skilled people) working on that.

PS: the Corsair... man I am still waiting to fly that in VR in the pacific theatre. The day I do that, it will be a real childhood dream come true (and then I'll just have to work towards flying one in real life I guess :p)

Even as a real life pilot, I can't deny that flying a Corsair would be a bit intimidating. Just standing next to one gives you the impression that it is a handful. That cockpit sitting high up off of the ground, that huge propeller and that mile long nose sounds like the airplane is saying to me, "If you aren't really careful, I'm gonna kill you the first chance I get!"
The Hellcat doesn't seem as scary, and in real life it wasn't. Wasn't as hot an airplane, either, but still a great one. Easy to fly, and with good "coming aboard" handling, it made aces out of a lot of brand new pilots. Of course, the lessening talent of the Japanese air forces helped, too.
And I don't hate the Wildcat as my post may suggest. I am simply aware of it's considerable weaknesses and I know that we won't be able to solve the issues the way they did back in 1942. I will stubbornly fly it, however. The SBD is a favorite too, though, and with that rear gunner the chances of surviving might actually be better.

I certainly agree with your point about the Corsair (which I won't ever fly - my aim is realistically to get to ppl at some point and fly just normal GA aircraft. Some dreams are meant to remain that, can't have them all), it would be a very intimidating thing to fly.

I love the SBD. I'm going to spend a lot of time in that plane in IL2 BoMidway for sure

Is Jason not being involved any more on the BoX-series?

He has been involved with BoS from the start but he didnt have the last say in things until recently. Not knowing the internal politics of the situation though I cant say how much his involvement shaped any of the choices. I just hope that going forward BoS series changes for the better.

Jason, sorry to hear that this project took such a toll on you personally.

Let me just say thanks for the many, many hours of enjoyment in RoF and BoX!

~S!

Things have changed for the better with Jason. I don't why you are holding onto this agenda, but really, it's time to let it go.

Time will tell. I dont see any recent changes though that make me want to rush out and get all my friends playing BoS. The general consensus is, "meh, maybe when pacific arrives." The original BoS crew really #%&*$# over and ran their community into the ground (IMO). The only people who stayed (community) were the vocal and vehement assholes which resulted in even more of the community abandoning the game. At this point they could push out the best and most accurate wwii flight sim and if they attached the IL-2 or BoS (BoX) name to it people wouldnt even give it the time of day. It might very well be time to let it go and give them another chance but it is a losing battle at this point unless they put out something amazing or manage to shift the community to the better somehow.

When BOS first came out, I was a severely disappointed critic of the way 1C's leadership really F'ed Up the Early Access version and locked everything down, not to mention the debacle on their Forum. After 4 years, I have to completely disagree with you. Box is not perfect, but then again what flight sim is? What they have already done to turn BOX around and try to fulfill the original expectations of the original pre release Hard Core Simmers is amazing to me. They realized they F'ed Up and made changes to try to right the ship and save Box from totally sinking, because as I understand it, the Employees of 1C really Love their jobs and want to continue growing the BOX Series(read: they Love to create Flight Simulators). I have a lot of Respect for that alone, but also that they have made the whole Box series a lot better. The landing physics, the FMs, DX11, the Graphics adjustment options, the optimization of SP & Mp, bringing Patrick Wilson on to code PWCG to work with BOX, introducing a Campaign format to the ME, allowing skins, allowing offline mode and just listening to the feedback of their customers and trying to do what they can to implement what the customers are asking for, within reason, to generate sales while giving their customers a FUN product. No one can say that they are not giving their all, within their budgetary restraints, to give the Customers what they have been and still are asking for.

Addressing what I highlighted in RED.

IMHO, your statement is wrong. Yes a lot of people left the BOS Forums, but they did not abandon the game or the calling out of the Devs to make things right. Many came here where there was an impartial Forum that allows heated discussion, within reason, and kept posting the Truth about the dislikes and continued to call out the Devs for change. There are many here and even on the BOS Forums who did not give up on the BOX series, while we didn't use it, we simply stood our ground and kept asking for what we knew would turn BOX around. At that time people liked to call that being a "Hater", but really it was the ones committed to the long run to do everything we could to Force the Devs to sit up and take notice. After 4 years, a long time I know, I can say that I am well pleased with where all the money I have spent on the BOX series, I own everything, has gone. I am having FUN with this product. I really am having FUN with this IL2 Sim and I can set it up and use it however I like now. That is what I wanted from the beginning. I am very Thankful that this group of very Talented Russian Programmers, Artists and one American Producer? (what is your Title Jason? Head Ahole??? ) are able to make their living doing what they Love and providing me with some great entertainment, FUN.

If you don't like it, well that is your right. Maybe you don't like the Eastern Front? Maybe you don't like the Forums? Maybe you truly don't like the Sim? Again, that is your right, but I for one completely disagree with your whole statement as a general Community Consensus. Maybe I am wrong, and I am sure I will hear about here if I am, but I see most people here in this SimHq Community that were adamantly disappointed in the original BOS coming back and really appreciating the way BOX has changed and with the New direction the BOX Series is headed.

With the upcoming Horizon extension, multilayered clouds, the HyperLobbyish MP Lobby(hopefully), the improved AI(right Jason1 ), the Air Marshall mode for MP, the multiple input saves(save input settings per plane like ROF, right Jason ), the P39, A20, Po2, Yak 7b, Bf 109 G-6, La-5FN, the new bare metal textures, the rain effects, the Career SP Mode, the Coop hosting, the Mods On(Maybe, right Jason? ) and the Pacific Theater, how could anyone not be excited, interested, intrigued???
While I could have Strangled each one of the 1C Team (and Bearcat & SharpBs or whatever his name is, ShapXB ) at the beginning of BOS. Now my Hat is off to 1C for the turn around they are making now and I am hoping in the Future of the BOX Series, as a Profitable, for 1C, and a Fun product for the Customers who buy in. I think it will be all of the above.

S!Blade<><

This thread was started in July. Multiple valid concerns have since been raised regarding the practicalities involved in implementing a PTO scenario. If we strip away all digressions and deflections the few simple questions posed in the original post have not been addressed.
After review of the entire thread one may choose to believe that a PTO installment is the committed next offering in this series,or not.

You are absolutely entitled to your opinion but I disagree. Keep in mind though that Im making broad generalizations so they wont apply perfectly. But the first sane and rational batch of players abandoned BoS during the initial #%&*$# coming right out of BoS Alpha and into beta. These were the people who's expectations were not met and they realized it was a losing battle so they left the product. What remained were the crazies who thought they could change things by spreading tourrettes on every forum known to man. This just further antagonized the Devs which resulted in a crack down and the second batch of people abandoning the product. The product now has a clear and present stigma associated with it. This is a situation where a re-branding of the product would go a LONG way to bring in new players IMO. It is so bad that I tried to get some people who play warthunder to try out CLoD and they refused because of the bad #%&*$# they heard about the IL2 BoS devs. That is messed up on so many levels. From my POV they have effectively killed the IL2 brand though that is probably a huge overstatement.

Again though, you are entitled to your opinion. And maybe your experiences with BoS and the shenanigans were different than mine.

I don't know. I think you're just a bit out of touch with the reality of the IL2 BoS community Master, which is probably due to the fact that you never got back to it after the initial mess. I was certainly initially really upset about the unlocks, limited settings, no VR etc etc. Once Jason took back the reins and VR was finally implemented (and PCWG for IL2 appeared), I decided it was time giving it a second chance and didn't regret that. At the same time about all the friends I know who had also given up on IL2 came back to BoS/BoM and started enjoying it a lot. I check the official forums nowadays and the community is nice.

1. But you see, it was not a losing battle. That was merely the perception of the people who are not used to Fighting for what they want. I was one of those early access, Alpha and Beta, people that did not have my expectations met. I was PISSED, but I for one never left the product. I didn't use it for over 1.5 years, but I didn't give up. Hell, I was so PISSED that when Jason sent me notification that I had won a Cash prize in the BOS 2015 Screenshot contest that I messaged him back that I couldn't accept the cash because I was such an ardent critic of BOS at the time. Stupid me! LOL! I felt I had been ripped off, but I and many others were some of the crazies, or maybe we were some of the smart group, that would call out the Devs repeatedly for the mistakes they had made and for the damage that they were doing to the IL2 name. I for one, along with many others, would list the shortcomings repeatedly and then list my expectations of what BOS should have been, and should be. This was done in the face of a small group from the different Communities that would boast how good BOS was at the time, when it mostly Sucked in the opinion of Old School Flight Simulation fans. They liked BOS the way it was, that is fine for them, but a big majority of the Flight Sim Community thought BOS Sucked badly and spoke out in an attempt to change that. What did we have to lose, 1C already had our money, this might have either killed the Sim period or hopefully get the Devs to do a 180 and get this Train on the right tracks. This group complained about the optimization of the DNE engine, the landing physics, the FMs, the Graphical adjustments, the Campaign and weapon unlocks and skin locks, the lack of SP Campaign, not having a ME, not having a Career Mode, not allowing custom skins, the bad AI, the bad PR from 1C and many other problems. I have to think Jason and 1C were reading all of these repetitive dissatisfaction's, and took note of the loyalty and steadfastness of these dissatisfied customers, not to mention their persistence in demanding change. I have to believe that this group pushed 1C to change BOX to what a traditional Flight Sim should be because if they did, they would win back this fan base / customer base. 1C has optimized the DNE to way, way better performance, added DX11, fixed the Landing physics 100%, improved the FMs 100%, added great Graphical adjustments, added VR, all unlocks gone, added SP Campaign Mode, added a ME, will be adding a Career Mode, allows custom skins, is steadily reworking the AI and the PR and general atmosphere on their Forums are more tolerable and calmer. Just about all of those topics that were complained about over and over and over have been corrected or are in the process of being corrected, plus there is a boatload of new innovations and new products coming in the future. The overall product is 95% better than 4 years ago. IMHO, the Crazies that rode out the storm and stuck to their guns for what they were asking for should be pretty happy now. Sometimes you have to realize something is a "losing battle" only if you have no Faith and you are not willing to Fight for what you want. If anyone who owns any of the BOX series has not updated it and tried it for the last year or more, then I say they are Crazy and should update it and retry it. They most likely will be pleasantly surprised at how far BOX has come since its beginning.

2. Anyone who wouldn't try CLOD because of the BS that went on 4 years ago with BOS and 1C is stupid. 1C has not had anything to do with CLOD development in many years. Atag and Team Fusion are all volunteers and have done wonders for CLOD through their love of the Sim. As far as I understand it, 1C still has no input on the Development of CLOD through TFS.

Said all of that to say this. I just don't see any evidence of this big group of people out there that think the IL2 name was completely ruined by the BOX series beginning debacle. Yes some left for good and some sold the game early, but I am guessing here, and I would love to read peoples input on this, that many have seen the complete turnaround from War Thunder want to be to a more Traditional Historical Hardcore Flight Sim, which is becoming quite in depth. The price may still be a sticking point for some, but if so, watch for the sales that 1C has and pick up one of the Box Series on sale and I think you will be pleasantly surprised. While there is still a good bit to be improved, the Big ones for me are the AI and an easier ME, on the whole BOX is FUN now, it is rock solid software wise, FPS friendly, even on my old AMD Phenom II BE from 7 years ago, and Graphically the best looking Sim(maybe CLOD rivals it) on the market. What more can I ask for from a product I bought for entertainment??? It has been a longtime coming but Box is a Solid Flight Sim IMHO. Again I respect your opinion and there is no attitude attached to my post. We just agree to disagree on the status of BOX's success and standing in the Flight Sim Community or lack there of.

OT. I have high hopes that 1C will continue their reorganized success in the BOX Series and bring the Flight Community a quality PTO, and I for one can't wait for Carrier Ops in a modern Graphics and Physics powered Flight Sim. This year has been FUN in BOX and I trust next year will be even better. I will be pre purchasing the BOM(Battle of Midway) and any other products they choose to offer. 1C has turned me from Ardent Critic to Ardent Supporter by turning BOX around and making it FUN. Now, I have wasted a couple of hours of my off day Flight time, so I am out of here and in to the BOX World of Simulation for a little escape from RL and some innocent FUN!

S!Blade<><

Im not here to argue and change anything mind. I can easily accept that we have disagreeing viewpoints. I also really hope that Midway is successful and that allows them to continue on in that theater. I would sell my first born for a modern PTO sim! Calling it Battle of Midway and making it an Addon to BoS on steam is probably not a good idea though IMO. But im sure their marketing team will look into it far better than my limited experience shows.

Me to!!! Next year should be a very good year for CFSs. WOTR, BOTP, CLOD 5.0, DCS Straight of Hormuz.
Exciting Stuff.
S!Blade<><

What is BOTP? All of the others I know lol.

Why Battle Of The Pacific my good Sir, of course. The next in the BOX series.

S!Blade<><

Is that what they are actually going to call it? It is going to be confusing if they go with Battle of Midway since BoM is Battle of Moscow...

As they release individual battles I don't think they will call it BOTP. Be interesting to see how they get around the Battle of Moscow/Midway names though!

I just made that up Sir. I think they actually are going to call it BOAF. Agreed that BOM would make things to confusing.

SIBldae<><

BOAF? I'm not up with battles in the Pacific I'm afraid!

This will require a little investigation. A bit of an easy "riddle" for Pacific Theater history buffs.

S!Blade<><

Battle on the American Front?
Battle on the Asian Front?


They really should call it something like, Battle for the Pacific: Midway or Battle of the Pacific: Midway

If they keep Battle of Midway it should be BoMW

Nope & Nope. Do a little research and read about what happened before the actual Battle of Midway that gave the USN a bit of an advantage. BOAF

S!Blade<><

If you just want to experience flying the Corsair in VR download Aces High III. The Corsair model is nice and the VR implementation, with Oculus Rift at least, is great. I've spent hours flying it offline.

Ah, "AF water is low on water"

Midway is low on water, but yes I think you get the jest of the riddle Sir.

S!Blade<><

Yes. The planted message to test if the Japanese code "AF" was in reference to Midway.

Actually the message that was sent "informed" Pearl Harbor that Midway's water purification system had broken down. When the codebreakers received the encoded message that said, "A F is low on water," they knew it was Midway. Brilliant, really!

Yes, after Midway was directed via underwater cable (that Japan was unaware of) to send a message (the planted message I was referring to) via radio that their desalinization plant had failed.

Right, AF was the code name the Japanese used for Midway in their coded messages about the impending attack on Midway Island. This was figured out by the Pearl Harbor Code Breakers in the trap they set in the above described manner.
Hence BOAF, "Battle of AF is Battle of Midway!!! Ok, move along, this is not the Droid we are looking for.

S!Blade<><

It's Bodenplatte, not the pacific.
https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topi...ing-circus-tank-crew-and-mo/#entry532738

...and the announcement thread has been locked.

To clarify, the Pacific expansion has been postponed, not cancelled. Evidently it proved more problematic than Jason hoped, but he has made it clear that it is his personal ambition to get it out, and do it justice. See his comments here (1st post, plus post 12): https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/32257-my-comments-delay-pto-development/

Normal for the forum. A separate discussion thread has been started, per usual. https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topi...e-flying-circus-and-tank-crew-announcem/

Acknowledged

Meh...

...“postponed” vs “cancelled”...yes, I see the distinction, I just doubt that it matters

Damn, am really sad this has been postponed, lets be honest guys, postponed means cancelled, if its going to happen its not gonna happen for years, possibly a decade or so now, might not even be alive then.

Jason is in charge, and it seems its not gonna happen, so there we go.

For what its worth I think it could have worked, anyone remember 1942 Pacific Air War and the Gold version of it, my goodness that was one incredible sim in its day and never wanted for anything in its day, it took place over the Pacific and had incredible carrier action and a diverse plane set, carrier take offs, carrier landings, rough seas, torpedo attacks, bomb runs and dogfights, could fly for American or Japanese, it could be played as a separate strategic war game too.

The current mind set of Jason's Il2 ETC is not really that diverse, would prefer things went back to ROF2 than yet a 4th episode of more of the same.

Would loved to have seen a modern pacific WW2 sim in my lifetime, guess its not gonna happen.

Hell, even PAW1942 Gold updated would have been awesome.

Yeah, I was kind of diappointed at the news about the Pacific. But then I found out that a P-47 was coming and the pain suddenly went away! I'm easy.

P-47s are nice, but they are not Wildcats . . .

... or Zeke.

"P-47s are nice, but they are not Wildcats . . ."

Thank Heavens. Now if they had taken F6F Hellcats away, I might be a bit more disappointed. Flying Hellcats off off of a big Essex class carrier. F6F's versus A6M5's. Yeah, sounds better to me.

Appears the developers were smart enough to not waste their time on a PTO that “we” now admit “we” will not miss all that much.

I don't think they've decided to "not waste their time" on it. I've never once heard those words. And it's something Jason has wanted to do for years. I remember years ago, while he was still involved in ROF, there were some teaser screenshots showing that they had some ideas about it way back then. It started a lot of wild speculation about it, much like what was going on here.
So, he'll do it if he can. It seems to be something that he's really interested in. Meanwhile...I can't wait to see that P-47!

So where is PTO in their business plan? Anyone can fantasize about developing a PTO flight sim. To make ends meet though, the developer has to find a large enough customer base to justify the development costs. A vocal few who push for it might later decide they were not that much “into” a PTO after all. My guess would be that battles of Kursk and Berlin would be strong contenders for any available development funds. After those think about a special SWOTL edition.

Yes, Better off. It'll just turn into p**^*ing match like it has in the DCS forum. Yikes. How do people get this worked up about flight sims? I'd love a sim where I could shoot at some Japanese airplanes. But I'm not gonna get all upset over this. I even sugested that we do a "fake" Pacific campaign in another post. Why not? Let's not get too serious about all of this.

I'd love a sim where I could shoot at some enemy planes, flying in Japanese airplanes. b:)

Okay, you son of Nippon. I hope we get our chance. I'll meet you over Port Moresby!

1942 PAW, man that was one hell of a combat flight sim! The best (by far) WWII Pacific sim ever made! The sad part is that it is so old since it was made for MS-DOS and nothing modern remotely as good ever came up!

Why these modern game/sim developers can't build such a similar sim?? Jezz with all the modern development tools available it should be easier to develop any game, including combat flight simulations.

I guess this is just one more evidence that shows how messed up the world is today...

Anyway my point is, great people when developing/building great things usually look at the past for inspiration - current sim developers just do the opposite

First of all, let's not get all dramatic, here. The fact that no one is building a Pacific War flight sim is not evidence that the world is messed up. There are a whole lot more things going on that is evidence of that. But I won't take this conversation into the PWEC category.
"When people develope great things they look to the past for inspiration." Well....maybe that's what they did. The past may very well show that the Pacific has a history of not selling well. And, after all, this is a buisiness. It's how these people pay their mortgages and feed their families. They can't say, "Hey, we aren't going to make any money doing this, but there are a couple of guys out there who want it...so what the hell. Let's do it!"
Part of the issue may be that the protagonists are, pretty much, mostly the U.S. and Japan. The European market is a big one for flight sims, I would think. Most there aren't all that interested in what went on, on the other sideof the world.
All that being said, I still think they might wind up giving it a try. I really do want to see it done,but I'm not going to get all upset over it.

Not sure why recent comments are being characterized as “dramatic”. From beginning of this thread back in July some posts have cautioned that the PTO theater floated early on was most likely a chimera. Whether the PTO has ever been part of the business plan is unknown. How well accurately modeled U.S. aircraft in such a sim would perform against Japanese fighters is questionable. When actually tested against Japanese fighters by U.S. Intel services some premier U.S. fighters were not all that “Uber”. How many buyers would want to fly a Betty? How many Japanese aircraft other than few iconic fighters could be profitable as dlc? I have no idea how poplular a PTO offering would be in Japan or in Germany or in Russia but I would certainly review all available data that could possibly shed light on potential sales before committing. What would it cost to research and accurately model all manner of Japanese hardware? I would have to be prepared to respond on all those issues before even thinking about making a pitch to any potential financial backers for such a project. Looking back in this thread I think you will see that there was substantial energy spent discussing what should be done in a PTO offering and less time given to considering whether such a theater shift would be rational for a developer to undertake.

"Not sure why recent comments are being characterized as “dramatic”."

I very clearly made this comment due to the fact that ricnunes stated that not getting a PTO sim done was "evidence that shows how messed up the world is today..."

I prepared in my mind something to counter-argue what you posted but then I remembered that I've been reading that kind of rhetoric that you posted (developers don't make certain scenarios or don't implement certain features because they would go bankrupt, bla bla bla...) for something more than at least a decade and a half (likely even more) and I've been retorting that same rhetoric ever since and as such I'm not in the mood to repeat myself what I've been saying for roughly this same amount of time.

Let just says that if you believe that a combat flight sim developer would be bankrupt if it developed 1942 Pacific Air War 2 (or whatever it would be called) but if that same developer instead developed IL2 Battle of Kuban or Battle of <whatever_battle_in_Eastern_Front_that_nobody_really_cares_except_the_Russians> would generate revenue/profit that you could as well believe in Santa Claus or in flying pigs, like the fellow below:

To not say that same features initially denied - eg. DX above 9, 64 bits, VR... was using the same arguments.

This thread persists because no one wants to take ownership. Please go back to the original post. Why would Nimits think a PTO could be in the works?

+1

I wish for a modern version of "1942 Pacific Air War" above all other gaming wishes. It was simply AWESOME in its day.

It even had 56k modem multiplayer!! My sim flying buddy and I even discussed getting 2 phone lines so we could use one to MP while talking on the other. Instead we sufficed with the canned messages you could send to one another in game. I distinctly remember the "Watch this *Willie" message we created and sent to one another quite a bit. And the PvP battles we set up, dogfighting Corsairs and Georges over Henderson field or intercepting Bettys over same.

Nothing since has come close. And it has been 23 years since 1942 PAW was released. I was 32 then, 55 now. Twenty Three Years. Sad.


*Willie as in Willie Driscoll, RIO to USN Ace Randy Cunningham I think we also had a "Right down the snot locker" message too, for head on passes. LOL

1942: The Pacific Air War Is The Game Most Worth Saving From 1994

The current plane is that I win the lottery, buy 1C game studies outright (of course, keeping Jason on as director/manager/etc.) and we sit down and create the greatest PTO flight sim ever, including the carrier battles of 1942: PAW, a campaign that would make Falcon 4.0 or RB3D cry, and plane and ship set that includes every major combat and training variant and class.

Granted, the prognosis for the success of this plan would probably improve if I bought a lottery ticket . . .

Add in player controlled surface ship ops and I'll throw in my lottery winnings (if I have any).

I actually played 1942 PAW Carrier Battles last night, Battle of the Eastern Solomons.

That will be for the sequel. where we combine the best of Silent Hunter IV, Task Force 1942, Great Naval Battles II/III, and Destroyer Command . . .

I mean, you cannot do everything in just one game . . .

You're going to need a bigger... jackpot.

Don’t forget the DLC fortune that will roll in.

This is my promise:
If I win the lottery, I'll get in touch with you in order to set in motion that plan (or a similar one)

I literally went to sleep last night wondering what it would take to create real, professional looking WWII Pacific Theater surface warfare sim using Silent Hunter 4 as the starting point.

It has pretty much all of the 3d ship models you would need as well as all of the "terrain". I know some work has been done in this regard but much more could be done, or so it seems to me.

Well, I would say that for starters you'll need the release of the source code by the developers. And since in the case of SH4 the developer is Ubisoft (if I'm not mistaken) then the chance of getting the SH4 source code would be similar to finding a needle in a haystack.

True.

Which raises the question: why, since they have such a head start using SH4/SH5 etc as the basis, doesn't Ubisoft make a surface warfare sim themselves?

Incuring the risk of sounding "too simplistic", I would say that a single word is enough to answer your question and the word is:
- Profits
Or more precisely, raw profits.

Ubisoft is different from all current Combat Flight Sim developers/publishers in which (Ubisoft) is a multi-billion dollar company. For example and according to wikipedia, Ubisoft revenue in 2016 was almost 3 Billion Euros (2.984 Billion Euros) with a net income (also in 2016) of more than a half a billion Euros (561.8 million Euros to be more precise).
I don't have such values for 1C for example but I would say that it's very, very far from Ubisoft! For example and according to the following site:
http://www.metacritic.com/feature/game-publisher-rankings-for-2016-releases

Ubisoft "only" is the 10th biggest gaming company in the world and 1C is nowhere to be seen in the list above.

Well, what I mean with this is that such huge companies (such as Ubisoft) always or almost always have to answer to shareholders which means that such companies will only develop games which are likely to give massive profit returns.
Again, this doesn't mean that Combat Flight Sims don't give profits, they do! I repeat, Combat Flight Sims generate profits, and this includes comprehensive combat flight sims such as a "1942 PAW 2"! However and unfortunately they don't generate the level of profits that the big gaming studios such as Ubisoft desire.

I understand and approve of the profit motive!

But it seems to me that Ubisoft is being a bit short sighted. They poured a lot of resources into SH-IV / SH-V and it seems to me that a way to milk that franchise for even more profit with minimal additional expenditure is to develop a surface warfare sim out of their sub sim.

Absolutely and I fully agree with you.

What you say is one of the reasons why I think and previously said that the world seems to be a messed up place nowadays. People (specially "high cadres") seem to think only about today or the "right now" and cannot seem to have the ability or the will to think "out of the box".
Resuming they want the profits today and are not willing to wait for something that would end up giving them more profits but this, only "tomorrow".

Add to this the actual trend of mainstream games in "take be hand" the palyer, with all icons, highlighs, the shoot here, go there... jumping over the screen all time.

A Ubi "CFS" will result - from "old" CFS players perspective - more disastrous than Loft failed attempt to make BoS a "mainstream" game (that XP, unlocks BS).