BoS preorder poll

I'm just interested how many people would have still paid 90 USD to preorder Battle of Stalingrad, now that the promised early access to the alpha has turned out to be limited to Tues-Thurs, for two months at least, with access to a Lagg3 on a test map with no ammo.

H

I've currently not pre-purchased the game. I can understand why they are limiting it to only a few days a week, but would have thought Friday evening to Monday morning would have been more ideal as long as they informed anyone that would play that servers could go offline with no one around to reboot them. Would give them most of a working week with the data to play with.

Being so far into Autumn, I'd be more inclined on going for the standard pre-order. I would imagine they would want most people playing by Christmas, or at least over the Christmas period.

For $90 I presumed I'd have 24/7 access to the game.

I would not have signed up for what's proposed.

I wouldn't care too much if it was buggy or that most of the content was missing, as long as I could fire it up when I wanted to.
Tuesday to Thursday rules me out. Total waste of time and money on my part

I haven't pre-ordered either and glad I didn't knowing this.

I play most of my games Sun/Mon so it would be utterly useless to me.

Of course some people are disappointed at not having 24/7 access, iam too, but i understand why its happening.

I pre-ordered for the most part to help the devs test and fund the sim before release.

The goal here is to make sure BOS's release in 6 months is a success, the 3000 pre-orders are great, but the goal is the sales after release and for years to come, we will only get that with a well made successful sim at launch, if the devs think doing things this way is the best way to achieve that, then im with them.

So pre-order now for $90, help the devs test, have some fun along the way, enjoy the bonus content at release.
or
Wait for the release in 6 months, pay $10 extra, don't help test and don't get to muck around with BOS at all until its released in Q2 next year.

Don't get me wrong, i completely understand people's frustration and disappointment at the limited access, but we should remember what the real goal is here for everyone.

Also the limited access should improve after a short time.

Not one of their best ideas.

I'm trying to think of any other game that has ever done this and I can't.

What's the reason? (I don't frequent the BOS forum).

Would I have bought the premium pre-order if I'd know this? Yes, of course. It was made clear right from the start that 'early access' was being offered so we could play a part in assisting with the development (and obviously, so we could get an early look at what was to come). The developers have explained that they are restricting access for now because they need to analyse the data generated (and there is likely to be a heck of a lot of it - they will probably be saving a lot more data than would be done once the game is finalised), and because presently keeping the system up uses a lot of manpower/resources. I see no reason not to take their word for this - it would make no sense whatsoever to restrict access without good cause.

I paid for early access to the game, even if it was in an unfinished state, not to be a restricted access beta tester.
Of course I'd report anything i would have found while trying the game out, but not in any kind of formal testing.
I haven't got the time.

In hindsight, knowing what I know now, I would definitely would not have paid out.

I said yes I would but the Tuesday, Thursday thing reduces my flying time to a few hours at best.

So how will this work? Will they just turn the master server on for 72 hours, or will it just be an hour or two here and there over the three days?

As far as i know it'll be on for 72 hours between tuesday and Thursday.

TBH I wouldn't mind having the cash back and coming back when there is a product there to buy.

Biggest crock of #%&*$# 777 has pulled. I paid $90 to play the game early. What with work and a fiancee it's nearly impossible for me to get free time tues-thurs. Anyone know if you can cancel your preorder and then buy the other version of the game that's cheaper?

Can't at all understand what this hysteria is about. I have yet to see another game developer who is as consistent, informative and professional as this one has been from day 1. They have laid out very good reasons why for some time access is limited. The game is far from finished, it is their responsibility to keep the development on track and this is their way of doing it.

To the people who are now crying foul and feel betrayed - get a life.

MAC

I think they have got a life, thats why they can't fly Tuesday-Thursday...

The hystaria is because when they put up the preorders they didnt mention even once in passing that it would be limited the way it is. A lot of us CANT play tue-thur during the hours of their choosing. So what is the point of paying almost double the price of the game if we get absolutely no benefit from the extra price.

I dont care about a forum icon / game icon nor do I care about the gun pod. The 190 wont even be available at release and you can buy it later anyways.

There are only two reasons to pay 90 bucks for BoS. Early access and to support the developer. The first one is only useful if you can use that early access. Because they didnt mention it before we all bought in, a lot of us are upset about being screwed out of our early access. The second one goes like this. I dont want to support a developer that does something like this.

You say they have been consistent, informative and professional. I disagree. This latest stunt pretty much proves they are none of that. Welcome to the beginnings of CLoD II.

lol what hysteria? I'm leaning on my cyber fence, sipping my cyber coffee chatting to my cyber mates

And a FW 190. And a La-5.

And the fact that later it will cost you $100.

Your not paying double for early access, your paying for the premium edition of BOS, for the extra 2 planes, at release the sim will cost $10 more for the premium.

Why do you think 777 are "screwing you over"? why would they do that on purpose, what possible benefit would they get from doing that?
Its being done for a reason, we might not be all completely happy with the limited access, im not too happy about it, but to me what i want more than anything else is a great sim at release in 6 months, and i trust the devs in this decision.

If you don't trust the devs, if you feel "screwed over", then its prob best you get a refund, if that's how you honesty feel then i don't blame you and i would do the same.

Where did you see the 190 wont be ready for release? honestly not seen that anywhere.

I didn't pay $90 for bonuses like the 190 and LA5 or to save $10 or to even support the Development. I paid $90 for early access. In fact in terms of paying for development I'd rather they made more money finishing off RoF and using the income generated there than pre-orders on BoS.

I was looking forward to spending some free time in Nov to trying out BoS. In my own time, offline or online whenever I could find a little time for myself.

At this point I'd rather get my money back, let the game mature and get it when it's on sale.


And to MAC.

If it was a couple of dollars and loads of notice that a restriction was going to be put in place then yeah.....Get a Life.


But it isn't a couple of dollars it's $90 and the info that it's going to be restricted has only just come out, despite there being no mention of that limitation on the pre order page and the fact that they are still pushing for sales for the pre-order.
Me I've got a life and that life could do with $90 back to put towards the running cost of a wife and 2 kids.

Then in your case i wouldn't be happy Brigstock, maybe you should get a refund or change to the standard edition, the access should be improved by then(don't hold me to it though).

Its an Alpha, these things are par of the course. Hopefully the Tues-Thursday thing will be very short, although with development who knows.

I won't have much time on those days, but will find as much time as possible to help test it, so that hopefully they'll get what they need to open it over the weekends for those who will be unable to partake. I really paid premium to help with development, everything else for me is a bonus.

+1

I paid $50 now so I won't have to pay $60 later. That's it. I'll buy those other 2 planes later and it will cost me less than $90 total.
If I even get to play the early access at all (which I doubt), that will be nice...maybe. I played Arma 3 early access, and it was very limited in what you could do, to the extent that in 6 months I put in maybe 6 hrs. Plus it had bugs the release version fixed.

So...big deal.

If the preorder was NOT at a discount THEN I wouldn't have bothered.



The Jedi Master

So is this going to have a monthly subscription fee to play?. I see alot of people talking about it on HL that it will. Then each additional ac will be alot of money

No, that is WarThunder (I believe)

This is a one time fee and then they are going to package new terrain/planes into DLC and sell them separate. There is no monthly fee AFAIK.

RoF doesn't have a monthly fee so I see no reason for BoS to have a monthly fee.

Not sure what the price for individual planes in BoS would be, but the DCS Mustang is $39.95. Expensive is relative and I bet a few of the folks on Hyper Lobby have spent some money on add on planes from A2A, DCS and other places. Those aren't cheap. I don't think I ever spent more than $14.95 for a RoF plane (Gotha) and there are frequent sales knocking the prices down by 50%.

Most likely not. Can't play those days, the next option is half the price, and the bonus planes won't be ready for months anyway.


Furbs, you asked what would they have to gain by keeping this from us until now.
Just a guess. sales. Money. Preorders.
looking at this simple poll, they made more than twice the money on preorders, keeping us in the dark.
There's no chance all this people will cancel the preorder. They win either way.

BoS isn't following the same pricing model as RoF.

And looking at the poll on the actual BOS forum 70% of people are at least ok with the decision and only 6% are angry.

Though my question was more about what would they gain from restricting the time frame on purpose if they didn't need to.

Jaws, the communication maybe should of been more up front about the restricted access time frame, im not disagreeing with you there, its the posts not understanding this decision has been made with the right intentions, to get us all a better sim in 6 months, which is the real goal, i know that doesn't help the people who wont be able to play much, but im sure this wasn't a easy call and certainty not one persons decision alone.

Don't regret preordering, but would have waited.

60 hour a week job, married, with 2 little kids just isn't conducive to play testing mid-week.

Ark I feel your pain.

I'm in exactly the same boat.

50 hour week in the office (excluding travel) plus wife and 2 young teenage kids, seriously limits the amount of time I have to play with my toys too.

Their poll is flawed for many reasons and a lot of the angry people are not posting on their forum anymore (for various reasons). I, for example, did not take their poll and have never posted on their forum.

ditto.


Edit:
But you've got to hand it to them it is perrrty smart to wait a few days and then put up the poll when the pissed off folks have left - nothing short of brilliant.

Sorry. I missunderstood you back there. No idea abou the technical part. They said they want see performance on our pc. Does it mean they'll have someone 24/3 watching the net code and stuf like that. If the whole thing crashes, they are ll in the office (at least during worki g hours) and jump to fix it. It can still do that during the night when they will have limited personel.

They shoot themselves in the foot with the online only part. Yo see, a little offline content, that is not dependent of the master server, could go a long way to keep people happy if the thing crashes.
As it is now, if they get a server crash, that takes the whole thing out for few hours in the evening, there will be a lot bigger mess than what you see now.

Some offline content i agree 100% would help, even if it was just a very simple QMB for 2 aircraft plus maybe 1-2 AI, my guess is its simply not ready yet.

Im sure they will be working around the clock to add stuff in as soon as they can though.

As for the poll, "they" didn't put up the poll and im not sure just how many angry people are not around to change the numbers that much.

"they" = moderators.
Sorry for being unclear.
Could easily be misinterpreted now that I read it again.

One of the Battlefield 4 early editions (alpha I think) was similar to this. Active only during hours that were conducive to European audience and very inconvenient for Americans/Canadians/South and Central Americans. Also level of participation in the alpha was key to selection of beta participants so double screwy.

JtD, who started the poll, is not a moderator. http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/1780-early-access-tue-thu-how-do-you-feel-about-it/

ok, someone somewhere stated it as Foobar started it so I assumed JtD was first poster only - my bad.

Edit:
Rama it was: http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/1802-il2-bos-pre-ordering-and-autumn-early-limited-access/

I know some of our fellas are pretty pissed about it and the rest dont really mind. I asked the question of them if the testing had been Friday to Sunday instead of midweek?....you guessed it...those that were "angry" suddenly thought it was a fair enough idea and the others?....

Think the bottom line is this...

1/ If it means it effects your ability to use the early access then yeh, you get annoyed...I dont see anyone getting angry that can make the dates.

2/ We dont know how long it will last as Tues/Thurs. It may only be one week for all we know...

3/ BoS offer a refund if you ask AFAIK.

I remember the early days of CloD (not having a go btw) and for me it wasnt that great. BoS might be just awful in the early couple of weeks...that said, I think everyone should get achance to try it for themselves.

Hopefully Brigstock, you might make a little time when everyone is in bed to try it out.

I'm a tad disappointed with this arrangement but I can live with it as I'm not really counting the days till release. I pre-ordered mostly to get the payment out of the way early so I don't have to budget for it later partly to give a bit of support to the development. From what I've seen so far especially regarding offline play I'm feeling somewhat luke warm about the game. Hoping that things will pan out better the ClOD but not over optimistic that I will get as hooked on it as I once did with IL-2 but, as they say, "the proof of the pudding is in the eating"

Actually, nope.
I was offered my key to be reopened so I could sell it to someone else.
:facepalm:

I'm not directly involved as I didn't pre-order but...
Nobody knows how long these restrictions are going to be enforced.

These guys have a good record at customer satisfaction, so...
A little patience.

As they said they are going to use this as a direct technology-test.



Cheer up, it isn't THAT bad.
Think about all of those who gave money to Fighter Ops...

Just my 0.02

I know very well this team is very organized and very serious about testing a product. I've seen how well they work with rof. They plan to fix a game module they do it right.
in a way that's why I'm pissed. I know this guy don't make this kind of decisions in the last moment. I think they had itl planed ahead but kept us in the dark so the preorders are flowing. I don't think it was their decision, but the money guys.
It all feels like a cheap trick. What they think got them extra preorders now, will hurt them later, because I'll buy only what I reall want and not everything in the store like with rise of flight.

I respectfully disagree. And just partly.

Probably they already knew before this was a necessity. Yes, this is probably true...

It's the Money-People forcing them to do so? Hardly.
It's just a mere conjecture but I firmly believe that it's just going to be a small phase. A necessary- technical driven- phase.
It's a thing they need for gods knows what sort of Servers test...

They game being relatively close to delivery, it's really unlikely to think that this will go on longer than a week or two. They want people to have fun too...

It could have been told in advance, but let's face it do a couple of weeks spoil completely such a promising game? Really? Really REALLY?

To all those who can only answer yes- Well then, you're still being given a Beta, and the game at a discounted price. You've waited so long... I really can't see this behavior as a bit childish.
You're self inflicting a punishment you don't deserve...

It seems a byproduct from teaming with 1c.

That is what has me worried. They originally said it was the RoF team but the further this goes the more it seems like they caught something from the 1c team. It could be that the Il-2 franchise is just cursed to make stupid decisions.

What?!

If you're joking, LOL.
If you're serious *sigh* LOL.

GO look back to what the CloD forums looked like when 1c was just "months" away from releasing it...
Oops, it was 7 years...

No, really, selective memory is one thing... this little hiccup is another.

I voted no but if there was an option for Fri-Sun access I would have voted yes.

Essentially a massive chunk of Tue-Thurs is spent working so right off the bat the amount of help testing BoS is seriously limited. I honestly think 777 would have benefited far more if the early access beta testers were able to fly Fri-Sun. The vast majority of simmers will be 30+ and have jobs and families and as such simply cannot devote any real time flying Tues-Thurs. At least on a weekend they could devote time to do some real testing and reporting.

Me neither, no time in the working week. Is the access to the whole game inlcuding the offline side of the game? as I'm not at all interested in the online side of things.

I agree with 2k5 about the access. It would have been better for most if the game was open on the weekends and was limited during the week. It doesn't affect me either way since my schedule has me working every other weekend and I have at least one of those days off during the week but I am an exception, not a rule as far as time goes.

So basically you guys want the developers to give up their weekends.

How many hours would a person want to play a buggy, limited alpha version anyway?

Unless we're all working 16 hours a day Tues,Wed,and Thursday, it seems easily possible to squeeze in the one or two hours that would satisfy on an Alpha version. It's not like we'll need a lot of time to do a big co-op mission with our squads involving dozens of planes-the sim doesn't have that capability yet.

In the big picture, we're giving money to keep flight sims going-that's what is important. Missing some play time on an alpha for the first week or two is not a big deal IMO.

It seems like it should be easy doesn't it...but for me it isn't. I'm out of the house for at least 12 hours during the day and then when I get home I have a wife and 2 kids to deal with. That rules out a lot of my PC time.

Restricted access looks like it will go on for at least 2 months according to DD39.
It will start with one plane, no ammo, and a small map.
woohoo

This is BS. the way my roster works i will have access to the game 1 day a fortnight, and that will only be if i plan around it! What a pack of KNOBS, this should have been made clear from the start!
Will have to see about cancelling.

Oh Happy days

I can live with the one plane, no ammo, small map stuff.
The restricted access is still an issue for me.

I expected the game to be very rough, I can deal with that. What pains me is I won't have the time to access the alpha to deal with it.

Back to feeling mugged off for getting the premium edition for the earlier access over the standard edition.

In exchange for the developers squeezing extra cash out of the consumer using what can only be described as "questionable" business tactics? And then benefiting from the alpha testing they are got customers to cough up extra cash to participate in so the developers could create a better product that would in the end sell better so the developers could make even more money?

Yes. Absolutely. 100%.

The questions remain for the developers:

- Did they withhold full information regarding what limited access actually meant because they knew if they put the information out it would result in (drastically?) less pre-order sales?

- Was there a cost-benefit idea going on where the developers concluded prior to the implementation of the sales plan, that the cost to them of the ticked off customers and bad PR would be outweighed by the cash they would make on the pre-order sales?

I don't want the devs to give up their weekends. But after they've run the server for 3 days, can't they take that data away and leave us with a server to drift into and see what progress has been made.

I can't do the 3 day schedule and paid the extra $40 specifically for early access. Access I wont have until the standard preorder kicks in.

Haha I know, and share, that feeling

+1

I'm all for supporting BoS. IMHO, it would be more beneficial to allow early access Friday - Monday. We could put some stick time into the sim and then send our reports in where into 777 for review. I don't know 777's working hours, but here in USA most people, especially this time of year, can devote more time to the sim alpha/beta testing.

HB

Unless the devs want to debug in real-time which seems unlikely, then surely the best timescale for gathering information would be over the 48 hours of a weekend when most people have the chance to relax and grab some stick-time?
After all if all the bugs are then auto logged, assuming that everyone is online, then the team have the following five days to correct and update the software ready for the next weekend's fun and games.
Seems logical to me, but then I don't work in the industry so there might be other issues at play.

+1




Without this other issues, they would have started 24/7. Don´t you think so ?

Most important for them is, to get a stable sim out next year. If they manage that (and everybody, who knows ROF, is pretty sure about it), they will have achieved much more than others ....(seven years too develope an unplayable bugfeast f.e.)

This...

I think one of the reasons they did it this way is because they have families too... and this allows them to address issues quicker and in some cases deal with them in a more timely fashion. Something goes south on Tuesday they deal with it on Wednesday .. as opposed to something going south on Saturday and having to deal with it on Monday.. It makes sense to me. At this stage this is not about us and what we want.. We have to go along with what is best for the development of the product or else pay the price in 2014. The way I see it I paid $90 for something that would cost me more if I waited.. and I bought BoS ... BoS Alpha .. Beta .. whatever .. is a bonus.. I am also pretty sure that the La-5 & 190 I bought will cost me more in 2014.. so from where I sit... I don't like it.. but I understand. If the sim is not ready for full 24/7 access then I will take my 3 day access for now and do my 1-4 hours a week until I can do better. There are also security issues involved with this.. and I would hate to see someone get what I paid $90 for because they were clever and dishonest so to me it is a no brainer and I can either be bent about it or start making lemonade.




Perhaps if everyone participated in it it would be less flawed.







This is my take as well.. and exactly what I meant in my previous post in this thread. Besides.. there will be no combat initially .. just flying. The DMs are not ready .. all the weapons are not ready.. it is an Alpha... not even Beta.

As disappointed as I am when I look at the posts in that thread I understand.. and I am a 40-75 hour week guy myself depending on if I am on call or not.. People who paid for premium even if they do not get the chance to take advantage of the limited access will still be ahead of the game.. and I have not heard anything on how the final pricing will be but if the pricing for the Premium/Standard editions upon release is an indication I cannot help but surmise .. and again this is just speculation on my part .. nothing official.. but I cannot help but think that the pricing will be such that it is better to buy the Premium as opposed to buying the standard and then getting the individual aircraft seperately..

Developer responses to Pre order limited access as reported in Developer Diary 38

I wonder if someone will be working weekends when the full game is out in case the server crashes?

Weekend work is a fact of life and if I needed to work weekends to provide services paid for, you can bet I would and I would not be expecting sympathy from customers as seems to be the case here.

Be all that as it may very well be... Hopefully by then it won't be crashing.. but if you look at DD 39 Loft said



.. so I doubt we will see weekends until shortly before release... Yes working weekends is a fact of life in some jobs.. but I have no idea of how thinsg are in Russia.. Heck for all we know they actually could already be working weekends ... but in any case.. given all the things that they all have said.. from the security issues that Jason mentioned to all the other stuff ... it is what it is.

All things considered this was a damned if you do damned if you don't proposition.. We had guys saying.. "It's September 21st ... where is the early access... ?!" .. So I imagine if they had said we need to hold off for a month.. they still would have been called liars and thieves...

Please keep on reading by all means.

You have trouble defining what services you paid for. You paid for early access - that's it. No one ever said when or how long. Understanding that the early release is ALPHA, then we will clearly be getting an unfinished buggy product that will need to be sorted out. What you or I expected is only what we imagined, and not what was promised by the developers. We can say that we thought we were getting X, Y or Z, but no one ever told us to expect that. We were only promised early access. The only thing we really have a right to complain about is if we didn't get early access. That is being fulfilled. 777 owes us nothing more - no matter how disappointed we may be in relation to our expectations.

knightgames, while everything you say is 100% correct there's a huge difference from being legally right and customer right.
Usually, whatever you don't specify you leave to the customer to assume and when that assumption isn't met you lose the customer even if you win "in court".
For me, it's very much "what else important have they not revealed yet" for a long time ahead.

and yes, 777 have not lied one bit to this date and will probably not do that in the future either.

So the poll is pretty close to 50-50. Half would still have preordered, half would not. That's quite a lot of potential revenue lost.

I had no expectations, just asked out of genuine interest. I guess the devs would be a little concerned about alienating half of their customer base, so they wouldn't have done so lightly. Unless they didn't think it all the way through, which I doubt.

So this must be an unfortunate but technically necessary first step that they had not anticipated. I have no reason to believe they deliberately misled anyone - they are building a flight sim franchise, not running a Nigerian bank scam, so they want to build a large and loyal fanbase. It was always a risky move offering alpha access instead of the usual closed beta, but I guess they needed to generate some cash flow.

Having made that decision and taken that risk, they are now dealing with the reality and the reality is that half of their customers are unhappy. Doesn't matter if that feeling is justified or not, perception is reality. Yes, I have already taken their money for now but I want them in the future playing the game and buying the additional aircraft, mods, maps and campaigns that I will be selling.

If it was my business, I would be asking myself, what can I do to turn it around and make those 50% happy again?

I would throw another sweetener their way, and not just a custom skin. It would go something like this (you don't have to pay me for the copywriting Jason, it's all yours...)

Dear Founder: a understand that a lot of you are unhappy with the early access program that we are able to offer at this time. We wish it could have been different but technical and practical requirements dictate this is the best way to go. Nonetheless we recognise that for at least half of you, we have not met your expectations and you do not feel you are getting what you paid for.

Therefore we would like to make the gesture of offering our Founders the following: (insert free mod, discount or other freebie here). Founders will receive the code to redeem this gift in their email when it is available.

If you are a buyer who is satisfied, you don't need to redeem the gift voucher, if you are unhappy, they have at least recognised your concerns with some compensation.

Just a thought.

And that is exactly why I'm so pissed off. It should have been said up front. Early access is just that, early access, not limited early access or paid to beta access or anything else. 777 should have been more upfront about it. Early access means being given alpha builds to try out.

There are some here who paid full price as a gesture to support the devs, some of us didn't. Those that did have been pretty calm and some berating those that are upset at not getting what they perceived was to happen

Some of us paid full price to get a look at the game before it was ready for release. I don't think anyone expected a finished product. I for one knew what to expect. I knew it would be content and feature limited, we are 6 months of of release. I was presented with a choice when I pre ordered, I could have paid $49 for standard or $89 for premium editions.

I wouldn't normally pre order a game for full price, especially one at $89. But the promise of early access was the tipping point. So with Autumn access offered with the premium package i went for that.

Now the irony is that the $89 restricted access tues-thurs is not suitable for my lifestyle, long midweek working hours and a wife and 2 kids means at best I'll get 15 minutes here and there if I even get that. Come winter when the $49 access kicks in I'll have the weekends to jump in and play for hours If I choose to.

If 777 had been more up front I'll have gone for the cheaper package, as it is with the benefit of hindsight and a time machine I'd not have bothered at all.

As for 777 owing us nothing, well they owe me $89 of something.

Lemme guess. Next time you'll be extremely cautious and spend the bare minimum?

Yep, they owe you a premium version of BOS to be released Q2 2014, early access starting 12th of November, some founder skins, a couple of free weapon mods and a golden founder tag.

what are you missing?

Oh Furbs, don't be like that
It's the "early" access, that too many caught as a surprise to be labeled as an expected setup.

I have a few other issues with the setup, but I'm quite a grumpy old man lately (Ben Dover disaster learning c# for nothing, 12 years arma getting very senior in sqf scripting banged into a stop BIS going steam exclusive in arma3 and now this "login and ask us if it's ok to fly this hour" coupled with restricted early access) so I'll try'n'keep low

I'aint'bitter (haha)

Don't care about founders skins or forum tags or weapon mods. I bought in for the early access, which is now limited to 3 days a week for the next 2 months. Which was never mentioned right up until end of the the early access pre order.

So what am I missing, what I paid for in the beginning, the early access.

Great for everyone who has week nights free to do what they like or bought in to support the genre. But not great for me.

EDIT: anyone want to buy my licence, $89 and it's yours.

I do understand the frustration. I'll be honest by saying that if the Tuesday - Thursday access affected me I might feel differently. I'd probably be mad too. I still believe that 777 is fulfilling their part despite what we expected or wanted and I think I'd believe that even if the access affected me. I wouldn't like it but I'd believe I'm getting what I paid for - early access.... and an FW-190.

Brigstock, i understand your disappointment with the limited access, iam too, they could of been more upfront about the time limit i also agree, but i still think binning the whole thing is a bit of a overreaction.

So you get your $89 back, are you planning on buying the sim at a later date?

I would be surprised if anyone can get a refund, a few people have said they are trying, but thats about it.

Nope, all one gets is an offer to sell their product to someone else.
"Let the disgruntled customer sell our product" - so funny I faint thinking about it.

I don't expect to sell my licence, who'd really want it that hasn't already got it. But if I did I'd pick up the game when it's ready and get the add ons when they're on sale.

TBH the Russian front holds little interest for me, it never did. It took Forgotten Battles to get me totally migrated from EAW to IL2, despite having IL2 from the days of the demo. But I was a beta tester on RoF pre release and then up until ver 1.23. I have been impressed by the development shots of BoS and I like the business model 777 use. So I signed up so I could see what progress is being made on a Sim that will sit in third place on my HDD behind RoF and CloD.

I totally understand why 777 want to test midweek. What I can't understand is why the server is then shut down until testing starts again. Yes they will need to shut it down to reload a new build but leaving it up in between sessions surely is something that can be done.

If you were little bit patient, you would buy it within few weeks after release for discount price of 10 - 20 US dollars . Remember CloD.

I'm going to give them my $50 - seems like the best option.
I'll have to pay that anyway, and I'll get the FW later.

Yes if you dont mind the limited early access hours it is still reasonable value for money as a preorder.

I've been beta testing various games for almost a decade now, and this is not the first time I've seen test cycles that have the servers open a few days a week, at all. I put cash in to help support the development, and if they had scheduled it so I wouldn't be able to participate, that would suck, but it happens that way sometimes, y'know?

I have beta tested a lot of things as well and been part of limited play tests but I have never had to pay double the price of the game to be part of one. The only limited tests I have been a part of were free private beta/alpha tests.

So the early access is MP only? You can't fly offline?

As I understood this confused setup there will be no MP at all in the beginning but to play SP you have to log in online.
So, early bird will be SP as soon as you've asked their server if it is OK that you use their product.

This login to ask someone if it is OK to use the product you bought is why I said goodbye to 777 just like I did with Steam after I noticed saying "no" to sudden changes in EULA for whatever reason doesn't block you from buying new products but they actually block you from using anything you've ever bought via Steam. Asshats.

Im not crazy about the outcome of early access either, and like almost all of us I built my first box solely to fly.

I don't understand?

One/two years ago I virtually had nothing but the past for a choice when it came to WWII combat flightsims.

Now .... I got choices!!!

This is a very, VERY small genre? Do I really want to go back to no choices?

So I support ALL of them ... and the more of us that do ... the more choices we will have.

Next Tuesday we will start (hopefully)

So its SP only but you can only play when they let you? Is this correct?

Yes that is correct Mace. And they will let you play Tue-Thur (no word on exact hours or if it will be 24-3).

Tue. through Thur. 72 hours access Moscow time, I think....unless the server crashes.

Todays dev update moves early access back one week, it seems it is not ready yet.

Of course, should the game's release be pushed back, those with early access will get even more time with it than those who're waiting for release to buy it.

So, a delay in the start of it does not imply a firm release date. Also, the truncated schedule is what they're starting with, but there's no word on it expanding. For all we know, in 6 weeks it will be 24/7 if things go smoothly. They're going to try to underpromise and overdeliver, and if people complain about that because they think promise = set-in-stone and it can't be better, it looks better when they beat it.



The Jedi Master

I'm off on Wednesdays and Thursdays, so it's actually a plus.