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"Black SAM"

Posted By: MK_PL

"Black SAM" - 02/09/16 10:00 AM

I just found it in a glossary added to the Strike Fighters 2: Vietnam Air and Ground Expansion Pack:

"Black SAM: a mysterious type of SAM that suddenly appeared during the summer of 1972 only
to disappear after a few months. These new "Black SAMs" were stouter than the familiar SA-2
Guideline, and were an ominous dark black in color. They also appeared to be resistant to
standard ECM jamming as well as being far more maneuverable than standard SA-2s. U.S. air
crews suspected these new "Black SAMs" to be SA-3 Goas, long rumored to have been supplied
by the Soviet Union to North Vietnam, however, the NSA (National Security Agency)
maintained that they were simply improved SA-2 Guidelines."

Any idea what system could that be?
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: "Black SAM" - 02/09/16 12:15 PM

Easy to answer, as now we knew what systems and missile types were exported to Vietnam...

SA-75A Dvina-A with V-750VK 11DK missile from 1965, V-750VMVK from 1969
S-125 Pechora with V-601 5V27 missile from 1972
S-75M2 Volga with V-755SU 20DSU missile from 1979
S-75M3 Volga with V-759 5Ya23 missile from 1985

... so it could be either the Pechora, or the V-750VMVK missile of the Dvina-A.
Posted By: piston79

Re: "Black SAM" - 02/09/16 02:33 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp


... so it could be either the Pechora, or the V-750VMVK missile of the Dvina-A.



From "To Hanoi and back":




From "Red SAM: The SA-2 Guideline Anti-Aircraft Missile" . S. Zaloga




So, it could be a Chinese version of SA-2....
Posted By: MK_PL

Re: "Black SAM" - 02/09/16 04:50 PM

Thanks for the prompt answer!
Posted By: piston79

Re: "Black SAM" - 02/09/16 05:49 PM

Originally Posted By: MK_PL
Thanks for the prompt answer!


You're welcome, buddy...

thumbsup
Posted By: KJakker

Re: "Black SAM" - 02/09/16 10:02 PM

Here are the pages about the "Black SAM" from Pg 172-175 of Palace Cobra by Ed Rasimus. Likely the source of the glossary entry.




Posted By: MK_PL

Re: "Black SAM" - 02/10/16 09:29 AM

Thanks, I also recommend "When Thunder Rolled..."
Posted By: KJakker

Re: "Black SAM" - 02/10/16 12:57 PM

Thanks, already read it.
Posted By: piston79

Re: "Black SAM" - 02/10/16 07:19 PM

Originally Posted By: MK_PL
Thanks, I also recommend "When Thunder Rolled..."


So, could we have a sneak peak about...?
Posted By: KJakker

Re: "Black SAM" - 02/11/16 03:03 AM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: MK_PL
Thanks, I also recommend "When Thunder Rolled..."


So, could we have a sneak peak about...?


When Thunder Rolled: An F-105 Pilot over North Vietnam by Ed Rasimus

Palace Cobra: A Fighter Pilot in the Vietnam Air War by Ed Rasimus
Posted By: piston79

Re: "Black SAM" - 02/11/16 07:48 AM



I believe that "Black SAM" quote in not more than a half page, I would appreciate if you just share the text about this SAM...
Posted By: KJakker

Re: "Black SAM" - 02/11/16 02:37 PM

piston79, scroll up about five post in this thread. I attached photos of the four reverent pages about the "Black SAM" from Palace Cobra.
Posted By: piston79

Re: "Black SAM" - 02/11/16 03:54 PM

Originally Posted By: KJakker
piston79, scroll up about five post in this thread. I attached photos of the four reverent pages about the "Black SAM" from Palace Cobra.


I meant from "When Thunder Rolled: An F-105 Pilot over North Vietnam"....
Posted By: KJakker

Re: "Black SAM" - 02/11/16 05:48 PM

The author of the two book listed, Edward J. Rasimus, Jr. (September 29, 1942–January 30, 2013), did two tours of duty during the Vietnam War. His first at Korat Royal Thai AFB, Thailand, as an F-105D pilot with the 421st Tactical Fighter Squadron of the 388th Tactical Fighter Wing was from May to November 1966. His second tour was as an F-4E pilot with the 469th and then the 34th Tactical Fighter Squadrons at Korat Royal Thai AFB from July 1972 to July 1973.

The first book When Thunder Rolled: An F-105 Pilot over North Vietnam is about his 1966 tour during Operation Rolling Thunder. The second book Palace Cobra: A Fighter Pilot in the Vietnam Air War is about his 1972-73 tour and covers Operations Linebacker and Linebacker II.

The "Black SAM" only appeared in the summer of 1972 so the author only mentions it in Palace Cobra the book covering that time period.
Posted By: MK_PL

Re: "Black SAM" - 02/12/16 10:55 AM

By the way, a few years ago I saw a series of documentaries, Wings over Vietnam, now you can watch it on YouTube.
A series of episodes covering some major aspects of the air war in Vietnam, bombing campaigns, rescue operations, etc.

This one is about the Wild Weasels:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDEtHmGcl6Y
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