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9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko)

Posted By: Hpasp

9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/22/13 09:26 PM

Here we can discuss everything related to the 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B) SAM system.


Posted By: Hpasp

9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/22/13 09:38 PM

Inside:




Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/22/13 09:49 PM

Face to face with the turret, having SOC, SSC, SPK, SVR antenna systems (Land Roll), the Karat camera, and the PU in one unit.


Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/23/13 06:02 AM

Great Hpasp, according to the last photo, is it from historical institute at Lesany?
Posted By: Mdore

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/23/13 06:58 AM

Thank you again Hpasp!

I hope it's okay if I ask a few questions?

How far along are you in adding the SA-8 to the sim? Have you just started? And do you have an estimated date it'll be complete?

Why did you have to wait until you announced it? Were you getting permission from the Hungarian military or something?
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/23/13 09:18 AM

It is from Czech :-)

By the way, what are main differences between AK and AKM versions?
Posted By: JWNoctis

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/23/13 09:53 AM

Feels like something between gun or gun-and-missile systems like Shilka and Tunguska, and fixed short-range systems like Neva in terms of capability and envelope.

Gonna be impressive! smile
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/23/13 10:23 AM

Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

By the way, what are main differences between AK and AKM versions?



Optimization against hoovering targets...
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/23/13 10:43 AM

Originally Posted By: Mdore
Thank you again Hpasp!
I hope it's okay if I ask a few questions?


Its okay, I just might not answer.
biggrin

Originally Posted By: Mdore

How far along are you in adding the SA-8 to the sim? Have you just started? And do you have an estimated date it'll be complete?


Not started yet at all.
Just got the required things that makes me available to create it in the future.

Got the doc from the net, the required high quality photos, and most importantly the connection to somebody who launched OSA missiles several times.
Posted By: milo11

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/23/13 10:45 AM

Nice addition, Hpasp! thumbsup
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/23/13 11:03 AM

Originally Posted By: JWNoctis
Feels like something between gun or gun-and-missile systems like Shilka and Tunguska, and fixed short-range systems like Neva in terms of capability and envelope.

Gonna be impressive! smile


Originally it was planned to be the cheap alternative of the KUB (SA-6).
According to the plans, one KUB (SA-6) regiment armed the tank divisions, while one OSA (SA-8) regiment armed the mechanized divisions.

Due to the protracted development, the KUB become avaiable earlier, and was fielded for almost all mechanized and tank divisions in the Warsaw Pact.

OSA-AK/AKM is the last single digit SAM system, and the most modern and easy to used one.
Posted By: Mdore

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/23/13 11:32 AM

Is it similar to use as the SA-4?
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/23/13 12:01 PM

Originally Posted By: Mdore
Is it similar to use as the SA-4?


It was designed by the same engineers, but with almost 10 years difference.
(yes the turret cannot be rotated fully around, an Efremov specialty rolleyes )

On several usability (user friendliness) features it is closer to the S-300PMU (SA-10B) than the KRUG.
(The OSA-AK preceded the S-300PT with only 4 years)

- First white panel of the SAMSIM
The Shilka and the Dvina used the silver hammer finish.
The Volhov, Neva, Vega, KRUG had the blue paint.
All the latest Soviet/Russian SAM systems, and the OSA has the white design.

- Containerized, solid fueled missile with 12s (!!!) preparation time.
- Missile has huge overload capability, evenly in the whole envelope.
- Automatic guidance method selection.
- Automatic missile preparation.
- Automatic missile selection.
- Integrated SOC.
- Amphibious.
- Acquire target on the move, shoot on short stop.
- Dedicated switch against low RCS targets.
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/23/13 12:23 PM

Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

By the way, what are main differences between AK and AKM versions?


From user point of view, it is only six lamps indicating that 9M33M3 missile is present, instead of the 9M33M2 ...

9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B)



9K33M3 OSA-AKM (SA-8B)



... and the capability to engage hovering helicopters below 25m.
thumbsup
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/23/13 01:44 PM

WOW... dear hpasp let me say TNQ to you and your amazing effort !
i though shilka is only short range system on samsim at all but you disturb all of ideas !

so i have several heavy questions during sa-8 .. personally because i never seen any sa-8 with my eyes because my country do not have it even 1

questions:

first of all for taking picture : hungary museum armed with sa-8 for free acces ? or u have to create digital panels ?

1.please say something about sa-8 missiles !
missile speed
missile G forces
how many missile created and design for sa-8 ?

2.sa-8 can fire with what kide of guiding methods ? IR guiding or radar guiding"t/t ? three point ? lead ? half lead?"

3.we can track how many targets at 1 moments ?

4. sa-8 can use p-40 for tracking and aqusition targets or we can just see targets from IADS table ?


Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/23/13 01:57 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
WOW... dear hpasp let me say TNQ to you and your amazing effort !
i though shilka is only short range system on samsim at all but you disturb all of ideas !

so i have several heavy questions during sa-8 .. personally because i never seen any sa-8 with my eyes because my country do not have it even 1

questions:

first of all for taking picture : hungary museum armed with sa-8 for free acces ? or u have to create digital panels ?

1.please say something about sa-8 missiles !
missile speed
missile G forces
how many missile created and design for sa-8 ?

2.this system can fire missile with sitch method ? IR guiding or radar guiding"t/t ? three point ? lead ? half lead?"

3.this system can fire how many missiles to target ? and sa-8 can tracking how many targets at one time ?

4. sa-8 can use p-40 for tracking and aqusition targets or we can just see targets from IADS table ?




1, 9M33M2 speed is about 500m/s.
Three missile types were created during the Cold War,
- 9M33 (original, 4pcs per vehicle)
- 9M33M2 (containerized version with fold-able wings, 6pcs per vehicle)
- 9M33M3 (with radio proxy fuse capable of engaging hovering helos under 25m)

2, The 9M33M2 missile is a radar guided one using T/T of Fi guidance method (automatically selected by the system).

3, The 9K33M2 OSA-AK system has one target, and two missile channels.

4, OSA has own target acquisition radar (SOC), no need for P-40.
OSA battery (4pcs) has one PU-12 vehicle attached, so we will have the plotting board similarly to the Shilka.


Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/23/13 04:38 PM

tNQ for answering hpasp but two more question
biggrin

1. what is FI method ? do u have any picture from missile head ? any GSN armed on 9M33 or not ?

2. we will meet photo real panels or digital panels ?

and haPPY NOWROOZ to you sam sim fans and great hpasp aroundthetree
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/23/13 04:45 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
tNQ for answering hpasp but two more question
biggrin

1. what is FI method ? do u have any picture from missile head ? any GSN armed on 9M33 or not ?

2. we will meet photo real panels or digital panels ?

and haPPY NOWROOZ to you sam sim fans and great hpasp aroundthetree


1, Fi is similar to K method on the Volhov.
Missile head, not really got your question, but here it is.


GSN is only used by the Semi Active missiles like the KUB and Vega.
OSA is command guided like the Dvina/Volhov/Neva/KRUG.

2, Real panels.
thumbsup
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/23/13 05:54 PM

Hmmm... i read about missile range .... impossible eek2 15km missile range ?

this missile is really smal for flying till 15 km ...
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/23/13 07:18 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
Hmmm... i read about missile range .... impossible eek2 15km missile range ?

this missile is really smal for flying till 15 km ...


Where???

The 9M33M2 missile has...
- 1,5 .. 10,3km range
- 25 .. 5000m altitude
- 500m/s (Mach1.5) maximum target speed.
Posted By: Mdore

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/24/13 07:03 AM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp




Wow, that's a lot of electronics. Much more than I would have guessed.

Why so much?

It's command guided, so no complex sensors. And proximity fuses can fit in a 40mm shell, so that shouldn't take much room.
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/24/13 07:58 AM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: farokh
Hmmm... i read about missile range .... impossible eek2 15km missile range ?

this missile is really smal for flying till 15 km ...


Where???

The 9M33M2 missile has...
- 1,5 .. 10,3km range
- 25 .. 5000m altitude
- 500m/s (Mach1.5) maximum target speed.


here wrote max range is 15000m and alt is 12000m
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/sa-8.htm

also here wrote about first variant range is 12000km and for m3 version 15000m range !
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K33_Osa

also here
Specifications (9M33[3])
Weight 170 kg
Length 3158 mm
Diameter 209.6 mm
Warhead Frag-HE
Warhead weight 16 kg
Detonation
mechanism Contact and proximity
Propellant Solid propellant rocket motor
Operational
range 15 kilometres (9.3 mi)
Flight altitude 12,000 metres (39,000 ft)
Boost time 2 s boost, then 15 s sustain
Speed 1020 m/s
Guidance
system RF CLOS
Steering
system dual-thrust rocket motor.
Accuracy 5 m
Launch
platform 9P35M2
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/24/13 10:27 AM

I would rather trust the official operations manual, than Wiki or FAS...
biggrin
... but here are some better websites.

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-9K33-Osa.html
http://www.rwd-mb3.de/pages/9k33.htm
http://www.flak11.de/9K33-Start.htm
http://www.rta-4.de/rakete.html


Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/24/13 01:42 PM

9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) workplace...

Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/24/13 01:50 PM

Dear hpasp.... Do u have any scenarios for gecko ? In real world how many aircraft at what war killed or hited by gecho ?
Posted By: Lonewolf357

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/24/13 01:51 PM

Wow, great! Osa will be a perfect addition! thumbsup
Posted By: Lieste

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/24/13 04:16 PM

Perhaps the discrepancy in range relates to maximum kinematic vs effective engagement envelope, possibly limited by battery life or other consumables as well as by energy state and manoeuvrability.
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/24/13 05:04 PM

wow white panel is very sexy .

hpasp would u want introduce the fire switch to us ?
biggrin

also one more thing sir :
i see how KUB operators can lock on target .... so locking on target by Gecho near close to Kub or Gecko is different ?
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/24/13 05:11 PM

Perhaps the discrepancy in range relates to maximum kinematic vs effective engagement envelope, possibly limited by battery life or other consumables as well as by energy state and manoeuvrability.

Nope, it relates to sharing of incorrect information.
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/24/13 05:13 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
wow white panel is very sexy .

hpasp would u want introduce the fire switch to us ?
biggrin


Pretty easy...
... look for a RED button, with the label of PUSK.
biggrin
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/24/13 06:43 PM

deleted...
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/24/13 07:44 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Let's see if Faroukh could generate 20+ pages with trash talking in this topic until SA-8B introduction in SAMsim... banghead


Dear firend .... Please be carful and understand me and the other side i must say us .... and who loves sam systems ... All of us check this froum for learn about new systems and ask. The questions during next system... And im sure with my basic questions never ever generate any page about any system. So please take it easy and get deep breathe and bee cool till another sam lovers say another basic questions

...also do not forget why we did registered at this froum. Please
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/25/13 07:06 PM

Dear All,

OSA SIM will not arrive, at least until the end of 2013, at its best.
Currently Im learning its operation and capabilities, and designing the SIM screens.

Im happy to answer questions about this remarkable system (last single digit SAM), while Im still building up my knowledge.
thumbsup

Originally it was planned as a cheap alternative system to the KUB, having full autonomous operation per vehicle.
When the KUB become available during the 70's, it was fielded in the WarPact at both tank/mechanized divisions.

At last, when the OSA become available in the 80's, WarPact armies started to swap the more expensive KUB regiments with the OSA!!!
(GDR - 2 regiments, Czechoslovakia - 1 regiment, Hungary - never fielded)
The reason was that a KUB regiment had only 5 target channel, utilizing 25 tracked vehicles...
... on the other side, the OSA regiment had 20 target channel (4x of a KUB) with 20 wheeled vehicles.


Posted By: Lonewolf357

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/25/13 07:16 PM

I have a little idea here, regarding the simulation of PU-12 command post. Normally, it would issue target designations to its subordinating SAMs and ZSUs by the voice via radio. As simulating this would be too cumbersome for SAM Sim, I was thinking about issuing them in text form. At plotting board you would select the desired target as you do now with IADS, but instead of automatic traget designation, you would receive guidance in text form, something like "azimuth 270, distance 32, altitude 6", with the same interval as with the real PU-12. I think this would be interesting.
Posted By: Mdore

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/26/13 04:34 AM

Could you roughly describe the procedure to shoot down a target with the SA-8?

It doesn't have a separate a target designating radar like the SA-4, so are targets found like the ZSU-23-4?

Then just lock angle, lock range, and fire a missile or two?
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/26/13 06:17 AM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) workplace...



dear hpasp.... i see somthing different in this pannels and i never ever seen like it at any samsim systems !
please check the rightest panel ... i see somthing yellow circle biggrin .... what is it ?

usually in our systems we had one tracking scope and one range finder biggrin ... i guess we will meet something different system in future popcorn

Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/26/13 12:00 PM

Originally Posted By: Mdore
Could you roughly describe the procedure to shoot down a target with the SA-8?
It doesn't have a separate a target designating radar like the SA-4, so are targets found like the ZSU-23-4?
Then just lock angle, lock range, and fire a missile or two?


The 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B) turret is quite complex, so first we need to understand it.



1, SOC (Target Acquisition Radar) has three elevation beams (contrary to the 4 elevation beams of the 1S12 [Long Track]).
Range options: 0-15km (against choppers), 0-35km, 10-45km
33 rotation per min.
2, NRZ (IFF)
3, SSC (mono-pulse, pencil beam Target Tracking Radar), with a range of 28km.
4, SVR (Missile Tracking Radar - Narrow Beam)
5, SPK (Missile Command Transmitter antenna)
6, SVR (Missile Tracking Radar - Wide Beam)
7, Karat Camera (Optical Target Tracking)
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/26/13 12:14 PM



Indicators:

1, SSC range indicator.


2, SOC azimuth/range indicator.


3, TV.
4, SSC elevation/range indicator.
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/26/13 01:12 PM

im not sure sa-8 mechanim work like sa-4 mechanism. rolleyes

Ssc elevation / range indicator is strange for me.... We dont have it till now but im sure i see something like this indicator in straight flush radar room (kub). Right hpasp?

So i guess at first step in sa-8
1. we need data from IADS
2. also find and lock on target with target acquisition scope
3. finding target elevation with scc elevation/range indicator
4. at the end locking on target range on range finder indicator
5. And PUSK ?


Oooof im confuse clapping
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/26/13 05:36 PM

Working stations (left - middle - right): Range Operator - Azimuth Operator - Elevation Operator

1, check on the blotting board, if the target is approached at least 50km. [Battery commander in the PU-12]
2, switch on high voltage of the SOC. [Azimuth Operator]
3, acquire the target in azimuth with the SSC boresight line displayed on the SOC azimuth/range indicator. [Azimuth Operator]
4, move the range boresight of the SSC to the target mark on the SOC azimuth/range indicator. [Range Operator]
5, switch on high voltage of the SSC. [Range Operator]
6, acquire the target in elevation on the SSC elevation/range indicator. [Elevation Operator]
7, acquire the target in range on the SSC range indicator. [Range Operator]
8, decide if we want to launch 1 or 2 missiles. [Elevation Operator]
9, when the target approaches the firing zone, missiles automatically prepared. [Elevation Operator]
10, fire 1 or 2 missiles. [Elevation Operator]
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/26/13 06:59 PM

Hmmm... Here is basic question .... Why gecko designer creted elevtion/range indicator for gecho ? Wht is the logical reason for this decision ?
For example GANEF is movable and use comand guided method for attack like gecko .... So why them use new element as new indicator inside the gecko ? And why we do not have it in GANEF ?

For recieve high accurecy ?
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/26/13 07:56 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
Hmmm... Here is basic question .... Why gecko designer creted elevtion/range indicator for gecho ? Wht is the logical reason for this decision ?
For example GANEF is movable and use comand guided method for attack like gecko .... So why them use new element as new indicator inside the gecko ? And why we do not have it in GANEF ?

For recieve high accurecy ?


The KRUG IPP indicator displays the SNR beams only, while the OSA has SOC azimuth/range indicator.
(no place left for the elevation information, as the OSA SOC azimuth/range indicator is closer to the P-18 at the Volhov)
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/27/13 07:15 AM

So .... You meant was gecho soc do not work like p-40 mechnism ? We cant choose the target and sort it to the scc ?
Like sa-4 tracking mechanism .... choose target from p-40 indicator and sort it with one click to the IPP indicator ?
Posted By: Sim

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/28/13 02:16 AM

Hpasp,

I heard this is not a 360 turret. How does it operate or what are it's limitation?
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/28/13 08:13 AM

Originally Posted By: farokh
So .... You meant was gecho soc do not work like p-40 mechnism ? We cant choose the target and sort it to the scc ?
Like sa-4 tracking mechanism .... choose target from p-40 indicator and sort it with one click to the IPP indicator ?


As I mentioned earlier, the OSA SOC azimuth/range indicator is closer to the P-18 indicator of the Volhov.

While the SOC is rotating 33/min, the SSC line can be rotated (aimed) on the target in azimuth, just like the perebros line at the P-18.
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/28/13 08:15 AM

Originally Posted By: Sim
Hpasp,

I heard this is not a 360 turret. How does it operate or what are it's limitation?


±330° it is electronically limited, not like the KRUG, where you can kill the system by over-rotating.
Posted By: ricnunes

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/29/13 09:13 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
Dear hpasp.... Do u have any scenarios for gecko ? In real world how many aircraft at what war killed or hited by gecho ?


Those are very good questions that I would also like to know the answer.


Thanks in advance for replies...
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/29/13 09:26 PM

Originally Posted By: ricnunes
Originally Posted By: farokh
Dear hpasp.... Do u have any scenarios for gecko ? In real world how many aircraft at what war killed or hited by gecho ?


Those are very good questions that I would also like to know the answer.


Thanks in advance for replies...


The 9K33M2 OSA-AK was exported from 1980.

Inside of the WarPact...

GDR (East Germany) - two regiments
1984 FRR-8 in Schwerin
1987 FRR-11 in Weißenfels

Czechoslovakia - one regiment
1984 5. protiletadlový pluk Žatec

Romania - two regiments
1989

Poland - four regiments
1980 8 pplot in Koszalin
1982 4 pplot in Czerwinsk
1984 124 pplot in Szczecin
1987 69 pplot in Leszna

Bulgaria - two regiments
1982 50 regiment Boyanovo
1988 49 regiment Blagoevgrad

Hungary - never fielded
nope

Outside of the WarPact, Syria '82, Angola '83 & '87~88, Libya '86, and Iraq '91 are the countries, where it was fielded in wartime situation, during the Cold War.

Here is some Easter Egg patch...
http://www.mediafire.com/?2aavi4919229t7d
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/30/13 10:32 AM









Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/30/13 11:07 AM

Hpasp , would u introduce sa-8 ashuluk targets ? We will have meteor or something else ?
Posted By: ricnunes

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/30/13 11:29 AM

Thanks for the reply Hpasp.

BTW, are there any confirm kills (by the SA-8) in any of those conflicts?


Looking into the list of conflicts, IMO the most interesting of those conflicts that could be modeled in SAM simulator would (again IMO) be 1991 Iraq (Desert Storm). Not only would allow a realistic SA-8 modeling but we could also have other SAMs (and Air Defence units) that are already modeled in SAM Simulator. Those SAMs would be the SA-2E, SA-3 and Shilka - And by the way, there are confirmed kills by the SA-2E and SA-3 (and also Shilka if I'm not mistaken) during Desert Storm.
Resuming, I'm requesting a Desert Storm scenario for SAM Simulator wink
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/30/13 03:03 PM

Upper: Time in seconds
Lower" Distance in meters:

Posted By: ricnunes

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/30/13 05:18 PM

Great, Chinese! neaner
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/30/13 05:38 PM

Some corrected issues...
http://www.mediafire.com/?cq8xfwmdwrl1hh6
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/30/13 05:51 PM

Originally Posted By: ricnunes
Originally Posted By: farokh
Dear hpasp.... Do u have any scenarios for gecko ? In real world how many aircraft at what war killed or hited by gecho ?

Those are very good questions that I would also like to know the answer.
Thanks in advance for replies...


The General scenarios will be available for OSA also.
Currently Im learning about the Angola-South Africa War, where...
Operation Askari
Operation Modular
Operation Hooper
Operation Packer
...was fought between FAPLA-CUBAN-SOVIET against SADF-UNITA.

OSA was fielded in these bush-wars, and there are some reports of shooting some SAAF planes.
(I take these reports with a grain of salt...)

At the Bekaa valley, OSA shot some IDF planes, but this should be further investigated.

Ashuluk, and Ustka should be available for the OSA.

Desert Storm is a War, I would love to include into SAMSIM, just I not seen any air-war maps...
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/30/13 06:00 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Upper: Time in seconds
Lower" Distance in meters:




Hmmm, where did you get it?

The 9M33M2 missile speed is heavily depending on the overload, the missile should pull.
Generally the booster part of the engine accelerates it into 500m/s (Mach1.5) right after launch.
The big difference from the earlier SAM systems (used to over accelerate), is that the sustainer is keeping this speed over most of the flight envelope.
If the target maneuvers hard, than the 9M33M2 would follow it, and its speed could drop till 100m/s depending on the required overload.
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/30/13 06:14 PM

My main question is still open to everyone...
... how do you like the new '80s white Soviet SAM panel design, compared to the earlier silver/blue one?



In my feeling, the OSA is the first Soviet SAM system where Man-Machine-Interface was considered during the design at least.
Most of the indicators and switches are in logical order, compared to the SA-2/3 designs, where developers put switches in places, just because there were empty place on that instrument...
biggrin
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/30/13 06:30 PM

I like this new design more, at least it looks modern and clean :-)
Posted By: montieris

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/30/13 07:03 PM


Yes, this is good design..
biggrin
Posted By: ricnunes

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/30/13 08:20 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp

At the Bekaa valley, OSA shot some IDF planes, but this should be further investigated.


Acording to everything that I read about the 1982 Bekaa Valley operations (Operation Mole Cricket) NO IDF fixed-wing aircraft seem to have been shot down.

Nevertheless the Angola-South Africa scenarios seems promissing!
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/30/13 08:39 PM

Hpasp , would u introduce sa-8 ashuluk targets ? We will have meteor or something else ?



and one thing is still here and i love to say it... you said you minde still open so i want say somthing during designing of sa-8 panels.... hpasp ... would u want create sceen of scope (SOC) and SCC with ultra high details of colors ? wink this system is really great evolution at samsim systems and i hope at the future we will see something different with graphical crysis smash


Originally Posted By: Hpasp
My main question is still open to everyone...
... how do you like the new '80s white Soviet SAM panel design, compared to the earlier silver/blue one?



In my feeling, the OSA is the first Soviet SAM system where Man-Machine-Interface was considered during the design at least.
Most of the indicators and switches are in logical order, compared to the SA-2/3 designs, where developers put switches in places, just because there were empty place on that instrument...
biggrin
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/31/13 11:13 AM

Originally Posted By: ricnunes
Originally Posted By: Hpasp

At the Bekaa valley, OSA shot some IDF planes, but this should be further investigated.


Acording to everything that I read about the 1982 Bekaa Valley operations (Operation Mole Cricket) NO IDF fixed-wing aircraft seem to have been shot down.

Nevertheless the Angola-South Africa scenarios seems promissing!


From Jane's Land Based Air Defence book...

First recorded combat use was in the Bekaa Valley, ... in late July 1982, when Israeli aircraft destroyed three of these systems belonging to the Syrians, but the fourth SPU shot down an Israeli F-4E Phantom.
...
During the 1987/88 battles in Angola against the SAAF, the FAPLA Brigade SAM units, equipped with the SA-8, destroyed two Seeker RPVs and an Aermacchi/Aeritalia AM-3C Bosbok...
Posted By: ricnunes

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/31/13 04:24 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
From Jane's Land Based Air Defence book...

First recorded combat use was in the Bekaa Valley, ... in late July 1982, when Israeli aircraft destroyed three of these systems belonging to the Syrians, but the fourth SPU shot down an Israeli F-4E Phantom.
...
During the 1987/88 battles in Angola against the SAAF, the FAPLA Brigade SAM units, equipped with the SA-8, destroyed two Seeker RPVs and an Aermacchi/Aeritalia AM-3C Bosbok...




Very interesting information (which I didn't know). Thanks for the information Hpasp!
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/31/13 09:50 PM

Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/01/13 08:24 AM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Click to reveal..


Great Video!!!
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/01/13 08:37 AM

Just for preparation...

Posted By: Mdore

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/01/13 11:33 AM

What caused the spirals on the target acquisition radar? Another radar on the same frequency causing interferences?
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/01/13 11:43 AM

Originally Posted By: Mdore
What caused the spirals on the target acquisition radar? Another radar on the same frequency causing interferences?


The good old Range Gate Pull Off (RGPO) Range Deception Jamming against the SOC.
thumbsup


Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/01/13 07:50 PM

Was it missed by me only, that the war for Cuito Cuanavale (1987~88) was the biggest battle after World War-II on the African continent???



Fought by...

FAPLA (Forças Armadas Populares de Libertação de Angola)
CUBAN - 65'000 leaded by Castro
SOVIET - 2'500 advisor

... against ...

UNITA (União Nacional para a Independência Total de Angola) - 30'000
SADF - 3'500 South African Defense Forces
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/20/13 12:09 PM

dear hpasp... are u play write coding or you still reading the manual operation?

no panel design yet ?
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/20/13 12:22 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
dear hpasp... are u play write coding or you still reading the manual operation?

no panel design yet ?


This one...
Posted By: WhoCares

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/22/13 08:15 AM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Was it missed by me only, that the war for Cuito Cuanavale (1987~88) was the biggest battle after World War-II on the African continent???
...
Fought by...

FAPLA (Forças Armadas Populares de Libertação de Angola)
CUBAN - 65'000 leaded by Castro
SOVIET - 2'500 advisor

... against ...

UNITA (União Nacional para a Independência Total de Angola) - 30'000
SADF - 3'500 South African Defense Forces

I suggested this conflict already earlier this year in the "Suggestion and Ideas" thread - here a link to my post with some links to other sources as well, also listing some AA kills.
Posted By: Mdore

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/23/13 12:39 PM

In 0.926.7, lots of the switches move now, and a few of them are hidden beneith switch covers. Are all these moving switches going to be simulated? The SA-8 might be more complicated than I thought, which is great!

Also some of the dials are very small. If they're important, they might be too small to read.
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/23/13 08:40 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: farokh
dear hpasp... are u play write coding or you still reading the manual operation?

no panel design yet ?


This one...

i saw that nope
my meant was online panel
dear hpasp would u do a favor to us ===> crew and show the SSC panel when system is online ? notworthy please

Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/24/13 07:28 AM

Originally Posted By: Mdore
In 0.926.7, lots of the switches move now, and a few of them are hidden beneith switch covers. Are all these moving switches going to be simulated? The SA-8 might be more complicated than I thought, which is great!


There are 4 buttons under cover, and one that is locked (can be unlocked), plus two wheels so far.
biggrin

What is moving now, that is planned to be alive when the OSA will be released.
(several of those are only used for emergency procedures)

Originally Posted By: Mdore

Also some of the dials are very small. If they're important, they might be too small to read.


I will working on it. (also the labels are small, but they will stay as they are in the real system)

Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/24/13 07:30 AM

Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: farokh
dear hpasp... are u play write coding or you still reading the manual operation?

no panel design yet ?


This one...
Click to reveal..

i saw that nope
my meant was online panel
dear hpasp would u do a favor to us ===> crew and show the SSC panel when system is online ? notworthy please



No, as I do not have any.
This is where the sim stands now.

First I create the switch movements, and only after it I will create indicators.
Currently I'm working on the Range wheel indicator.
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/24/13 09:04 AM

Originally Posted By: WhoCares
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Was it missed by me only, that the war for Cuito Cuanavale (1987~88) was the biggest battle after World War-II on the African continent???
...
Fought by...

FAPLA (Forças Armadas Populares de Libertação de Angola)
CUBAN - 65'000 leaded by Castro
SOVIET - 2'500 advisor

... against ...

UNITA (União Nacional para a Independência Total de Angola) - 30'000
SADF - 3'500 South African Defense Forces

I suggested this conflict already earlier this year in the "Suggestion and Ideas" thread - here a link to my post with some links to other sources as well, also listing some AA kills.


Exactly this is why it will be included...
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/24/13 11:33 AM

Regarding label size - will panels look as they are now or will they be divided to more vertical parts like with other systems in SAMSIM for better readability?
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/24/13 02:50 PM

Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
Regarding label size - will panels look as they are now or will they be divided to more vertical parts like with other systems in SAMSIM for better readability?


They will look like as of now.
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/26/13 10:50 AM

OSA conundrum...
cowboy

Who can decipher the meaning of these status indicator lamps of the 2nd firing channel?
(KRUG experts has advantage! Those who served on the OSA, please be quiet!)



I hope, that the general SAM knowledge of this community, could help you to solve this quiz.
biggrin


Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/26/13 01:31 PM

SCHOD - missile just left the starting rail
ZACHVAT - missile is being tracked
SP. L. - missile tracked by medium sized beam?
UZKIJ LUC - missile tracked by narrow beam
K3 - K3 command transmitted
GOTOV SPK - missile guidance system ready for fire
VKL VYS - ? something enabled, VYS like VYSOKOJE - high voltage?
1 (2 and 3) - II - ? I thought it has to do something with missiles launched, but OSA can guide only two missiles.... Maybe missiles in launching containers?
Posted By: Mdore

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/26/13 01:42 PM

(Descent) (lock) (Drink A Beer...?) (Narrow Beam) (K, maybe constant elevation like SA-2?)

(Missile ready) (No idea) (1-ll) (2-ll) (3-ll) No idea either.


I really shouldn't be allowed near SA-8s. yep
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/26/13 02:14 PM

Regarding the 1, 2, 3 - II - it definitely must be indication of missiles in containers - I thought of AKM version which has different indicators above panel. AK has indicators for missile presence here in this panel.
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/26/13 02:33 PM

Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
Regarding the 1, 2, 3 - II - it definitely must be indication of missiles in containers - I thought of AKM version which has different indicators above panel. AK has indicators for missile presence here in this panel.


Indicators are in different order...

9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko)



9K33M3 OSA-AKM (SA-8B Gecko)



But Im interested in the 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko)!
biggrin
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/26/13 02:40 PM

Yes, I am writing about AK version :-) I have never been in OSA so I was a little confused (only in the case of these three indicators) :-)
Then 1 - II, 2 - II and 3 - II are lights for missile availability for the second channel.
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/26/13 04:53 PM

Were you able to find all 5 guarded button/switch?
biggrin
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/26/13 05:52 PM

what about osa missile kill zone ? how many meters needed for one shot and one kill ?
Posted By: Hpasp

OSA-AK work in progress... - 04/26/13 06:39 PM

indicator illumination + range indicator

Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/26/13 06:47 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
what about osa missile kill zone ? how many meters needed for one shot and one kill ?


Do not really understand your question...

... OSA kill zone:

Target speed 0..300m/s
Altitude 25..5000m
Distance 1500..10300m
Parameter 6000m

Target speed 300..500m/s
Altitude 100..5000m
Distance 1500..10000m
Parameter 4000m

Target speed 0..360km/h (!!!)
Altitude 10..25m
Distance 2000..6500m
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/26/13 07:17 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: farokh
what about osa missile kill zone ? how many meters needed for one shot and one kill ?


Do not really understand your question...


Kill radius/Hit radius of the warhead...?
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/26/13 07:39 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: farokh
what about osa missile kill zone ? how many meters needed for one shot and one kill ?


Do not really understand your question...


Kill radius/Hit radius of the warhead...?

yes yes .... my meant was kill radius dears
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/27/13 12:29 PM

Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

SHOD - missile just left the starting rail
ZACHVAT - missile is being tracked
SP. L. - missile tracked by medium sized beam?
UZKIJ LUC - missile tracked by narrow beam
K3 - K3 command transmitted
GOTOV SPK - missile guidance system ready for fire
VKL VYS - ? something enabled, VYS like VYSOKOJE - high voltage?
1 (2 and 3) - II - ? I thought it has to do something with missiles launched, but OSA can guide only two missiles.... Maybe missiles in launching containers?


Almost yep

SCHOD - (Started) - missile just left the starting rail, SVR (missile tracking system) is in wide beam mode
ZAHVAT - (Captured) - missile is captured by the SVR in wide beam mode
SR. L. - (Medium Beam) - missile is tracked by the SVR in medium beam mode
UZKIJ LUC - (Narrow Beam) - missile is tracked (and guided) by the SVR in narrow beam mode
K3 - K3 command transmitted, radio proxy fuse is activated

If you launch a missile, the indications will be lighted, one after another...

GOTOV SPK - (SPK ready) SPK (missile guidance system) is ready for missile guidance
VKL VYS - (High On) High voltage of the SPK is on (might be transmitting to EKV)
1/2/3 - II Indicate, missile in the container on the 2nd PU (left). It flashes, if the missile gyro is overheated.
At the OSA-AKM, the additional lamp is indicating the 9M33M3 type of missile.
The OSA-AK can use the 9M33M2 missile only, while the OSA-AKM could use the 9M33M2 or the 9M33M3 missile also.

9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko)



9K33M3 OSA-AKM (SA-8B Gecko)
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/27/13 12:50 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: farokh
what about osa missile kill zone ? how many meters needed for one shot and one kill ?


Do not really understand your question...


Kill radius/Hit radius of the warhead...?

yes yes .... my meant was kill radius dears


Smaller (just 14,27kg) than the earlies systems depicted in the SAMSIM, but the 9M33M2 has much greater maneuverability to achieve direct hit...
biggrin
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/05/13 04:41 PM

Originally Posted By: Mdore
In 0.926.7, lots of the switches move now, and a few of them are hidden beneith switch covers. Are all these moving switches going to be simulated? The SA-8 might be more complicated than I thought, which is great!

Also some of the dials are very small. If they're important, they might be too small to read.


With PODSVET (illumination) they are readable...

Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/05/13 07:38 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: Mdore
In 0.926.7, lots of the switches move now, and a few of them are hidden beneith switch covers. Are all these moving switches going to be simulated? The SA-8 might be more complicated than I thought, which is great!

Also some of the dials are very small. If they're important, they might be too small to read.


With PODSVET (illumination) they are readable...




one screen with 2 panels ?
is it new situation on samsim?
Posted By: Mdore

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/06/13 02:58 AM

Nice to see some things lit up! yep

Thanks for the update pictures. Is development going okay?
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/06/13 11:21 AM

Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: Mdore
In 0.926.7, lots of the switches move now, and a few of them are hidden beneith switch covers. Are all these moving switches going to be simulated? The SA-8 might be more complicated than I thought, which is great!

Also some of the dials are very small. If they're important, they might be too small to read.


With PODSVET (illumination) they are readable...

Click to reveal..



one screen with 2 panels ?
is it new situation on samsim?


Yes, there will be 2 screens for the 3 operator panel.

Screen "Z/Y" will have the Range Officer + Azimuth Officer panel
Screen "X" will have the Azimuth Officer + Elevation Officer panel
Screen "C" will show the Plotting Board

During target acquisition, the operators should watch not only own, but at their neighbor screen also.

Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/06/13 12:37 PM

Hmmm
biggrin

dear hpasp why you do not talk about the new revolutions on samsim ? thumbsup
anything else that we must know about new situations ? popcorn

what about the other systems ??? they upgrade like sa-8 screens or just it ?
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/07/13 06:02 AM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: farokh
what about osa missile kill zone ? how many meters needed for one shot and one kill ?


Do not really understand your question...


Kill radius/Hit radius of the warhead...?

yes yes .... my meant was kill radius dears


Smaller (just 14,27kg) than the earlies systems depicted in the SAMSIM, but the 9M33M2 has much greater maneuverability to achieve direct hit...
biggrin


Actually there is no radius because the blast has a 60deg. conical shape .
K3 detonates the warhead as soon as the target is inside the above cone and less than 12m.

ePap smile2
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/07/13 06:51 AM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: Mdore
In 0.926.7, lots of the switches move now, and a few of them are hidden beneith switch covers. Are all these moving switches going to be simulated? The SA-8 might be more complicated than I thought, which is great!

Also some of the dials are very small. If they're important, they might be too small to read.


With PODSVET (illumination) they are readable...




Superb !!! thumbsup
I feel like been inside an OSA-akm,again...
Thank you so much Hpasp.

ePap
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/07/13 09:32 AM

Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: Mdore
In 0.926.7, lots of the switches move now, and a few of them are hidden beneith switch covers. Are all these moving switches going to be simulated? The SA-8 might be more complicated than I thought, which is great!

Also some of the dials are very small. If they're important, they might be too small to read.


With PODSVET (illumination) they are readable...

Click to reveal..



Superb !!! thumbsup
I feel like been inside an OSA-akm,again...
Thank you so much Hpasp.

ePap



Thanks, and wellcome to the forum!
thumbsup

This is not the AKM, rather the older AK.
(high voltage indicator beside the SOC is at a different position, and some other differences.)

Normal mode, K3 is transmitted 120m before the missile reaches the target. It aims the radio proxy fuse, and that detonates the warhead.
In case of jamming target, the K3 is signaled parallel with the Narrow Beam indication.
cowboy
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/07/13 11:42 AM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: Mdore
In 0.926.7, lots of the switches move now, and a few of them are hidden beneith switch covers. Are all these moving switches going to be simulated? The SA-8 might be more complicated than I thought, which is great!

Also some of the dials are very small. If they're important, they might be too small to read.


With PODSVET (illumination) they are readable...

Click to reveal..



Superb !!! thumbsup
I feel like been inside an OSA-akm,again...
Thank you so much Hpasp.

ePap


Thank you Hasp !

K3 can also be energized manually from the Off/jamming $switch in case of jamming after lift off of the missile, if I remember well.

Best regards
ePap


Thanks, and wellcome to the forum!
thumbsup

This is not the AKM, rather the older AK.
(high voltage indicator beside the SOC is at a different position, and some other differences.)

Normal mode, K3 is transmitted 120m before the missile reaches the target. It aims the radio proxy fuse, and that detonates the warhead.
In case of jamming target, the K3 is signaled parallel with the Narrow Beam indication.
cowboy
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/07/13 11:56 AM

Ops, hang fire (one missile email out).Try again... winkngrin

Thank you Hpasp .
K3 is also energized from the off/jamming switch manually in case we have jamming after
Firing a missile,if I remember well.

Best regards
ePap smile2
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/07/13 05:06 PM

True?

Quote:
9K33M3 Battery Components
System Qty Function/Composition Vehicle
9A33BM 4 6 Round Amphibious TELAR BAZ5937
9T217BM 2 12 round Amphibious Transporter/Transloader/Tanker BAZ5937
9T33N 1 Towed 18 Round Semi-Trailer Transporter (5Ya254) Ural 375
9T31 2 Mobile Crane for Missile Loading ZiL-131
PU-12M / 9S738-3
1 Mobile Command Post BTR-60
P-40/1S12 Long Track
1 Self Propelled  Acquisition Radar AT-T
9V242 2 9A33 Missile Repair/Test Station ZiL-131
9F16 2 Missile Preparation/Assembly Station ZiL-131
9G22M1-9
1 Compressed Air Tanker ZiL-131
9V914 1 TELAR Sensor Calibration System Ural-375
Repair Station
1 P-15, P-18, P-19, P-40 Repair/Test Station ZiL-131
9F632 1 Mobile Training Simulator for TELAR Crews Ural-375
9K33M 48 Missile Warstock Deployed -
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/07/13 05:32 PM

Osa was originally planned as a cheap alternative for the KUB.
KUB would arm the tank divisions, while Osa would arm the mechanized divisions.
As Osa development was delayed, mostly all divisions were armed with the KUB.

The Osa regiment has 7 battery; 1 HQ, 5 firing battery, and 1 technical battery.

OSA Regiment HQ
2 x PU-12M, 1RL128D, P-18, P-19, PRV-16

5x Osa firing battery
5x (PU-12M, 4x 9A33BM2, 2x 9T217BM2, 9V210BM2, 9F372M2)

Technical battery
9F16M2, 1525AM, 9V242, UKS-400

http://www.flak11.de/9K33-Start.htm
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/07/13 06:42 PM



What was/is the use of the "Compressed Air Tanker ZiL-131" ? smile2

My Unit took all flak11 equipment in 1993 !!! charge
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/07/13 07:02 PM

Hello ePap, have you fired a missile with Osa? You could be useful in SAMSIM testing :-)
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/07/13 07:10 PM

Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
Hello ePap, have you fired a missile with Osa? You could be useful in SAMSIM testing :-)


At least 30 of them. ar15
Posted By: max2012

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/08/13 12:52 PM


Question, and that someone had Shot OSA, it is not done.

Question for Hpasp, where such release is planned this year?

When the output is approximately?

Well, at least there is some plan.
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/08/13 03:23 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
Hello ePap, have you fired a missile with Osa? You could be useful in SAMSIM testing :-)


At least 30 of them. ar15


Great thumbsup
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/08/13 03:31 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap


What was/is the use of the "Compressed Air Tanker ZiL-131" ? smile2

My Unit took all flak11 equipment in 1993 !!! charge


Nobody ??? duel
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/08/13 03:59 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
True?

Quote:
9K33M3 Battery Components
System Qty Function/Composition Vehicle
9A33BM 4 6 Round Amphibious TELAR BAZ5937
9T217BM 2 12 round Amphibious Transporter/Transloader/Tanker BAZ5937
9T33N 1 Towed 18 Round Semi-Trailer Transporter (5Ya254) Ural 375
9T31 2 Mobile Crane for Missile Loading ZiL-131
PU-12M / 9S738-3
1 Mobile Command Post BTR-60
P-40/1S12 Long Track
1 Self Propelled  Acquisition Radar AT-T
9V242 2 9A33 Missile Repair/Test Station ZiL-131
9F16 2 Missile Preparation/Assembly Station ZiL-131
9G22M1-9
1 Compressed Air Tanker ZiL-131
9V914 1 TELAR Sensor Calibration System Ural-375
Repair Station
1 P-15, P-18, P-19, P-40 Repair/Test Station ZiL-131
9F632 1 Mobile Training Simulator for TELAR Crews Ural-375
9K33M 48 Missile Warstock Deployed -


To be more precise, the theoretical OSA regiment OOB is.
(not all countries fielded all of this.)



I do not seen this...
9G22M1 1 Compressed Air Tanker ZiL-131
... here. It might been a local specialty.
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/08/13 04:44 PM

Look closely piston79 list.
It is the 9G22m1 vehicle .
CV OSA-ak and OSA-akm have two metallic bottles over the top of the hall with air under pressure and it is used to start the engine in winter
Or you run out of batteries .Now the real staff.
OSA-akm has the necessary pipe lines to fill by it's own compressor this damn bottles. OSA-ak doesn't and so this ugly but useful car is used!
One more difference of OSA-akm and OSA-ak.


duel +1
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/08/13 05:50 PM

Nice place to shoot from...
thumbsup

Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/08/13 06:59 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Nice place to shoot from...
thumbsup



One week in Creta for live firings .
Three days respiration in NAMFI. crew
and three days perspiration at chania beaches . beercheers
What do you prefer. I would suggest both...

ePap
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/09/13 06:53 AM

I was in Crete once when I was seventeen (yep, that's 17 years ago nope). It was nice there, but I had not knowledge there is a SAM testing area there.
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/09/13 08:24 AM

Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
I was in Crete once when I was seventeen (yep, that's 17 years ago nope). It was nice there, but I had not knowledge there is a SAM testing area there.


Man, you were so lucky! ! ! wave
Those days NIKE missiles were fired too.
Joking.
NAMFI used to be the biggest firing place in the world for NATO users.

ePap.
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/09/13 09:03 AM

Question.
For how many seconds the electric battery provide the necessary power to the missile ?


smile2
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/09/13 09:14 AM

We can find it somewhere in the internet, but you are the one who worked with them, so there is no point in this combat thumbsup
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/09/13 09:23 AM

Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
We can find it somewhere in the internet, but you are the one who worked with them, so there is no point in this combat thumbsup


Man,it's not a combat ! mycomputer
More information about the system.
A hard core sim is under construction .
We need well trained operators...
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/09/13 10:01 AM

I know it isn't, do not take my words so seriously :-)

Yes we deserve as most information as possible. That's why I am not satisfied with lack of advanced functionality of S-200, which is my favorite system :-)
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/09/13 10:03 AM

Not so far in Internet, just couple pages back in this topic...

Quote:
- First white panel of the SAMSIM
The Shilka and the Dvina used the silver hammer finish.
The Volhov, Neva, Vega, KRUG had the blue paint.
All the latest Soviet/Russian SAM systems, and the OSA has the white design.

- Containerized, solid fueled missile with 12s (!!!) preparation time.
- Missile has huge overload capability, evenly in the whole envelope.
- Automatic guidance method selection.
- Automatic missile preparation.
- Automatic missile selection.
- Integrated SOC.
- Amphibious.
- Acquire target on the move, shoot on short stop.
- Dedicated switch against low RCS targets.
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/09/13 10:05 AM

It is preparation time :-) Anyways, those 12s was the first idea which went to my mind :-)

But ePap asked for battery life during flight :-)
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/09/13 10:09 AM

Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
I know it isn't, do not take my words so seriously :-)

Yes we deserve as most information as possible. That's why I am not satisfied with lack of advanced functionality of S-200, which is my favorite system :-)


When you will see OSA-akm you going to love it.
Love with the first sight. smile2
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/09/13 10:12 AM

Yes, I know this with S-200 :-)

But I will like Osa for sure :-)
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/09/13 10:20 AM

Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
It is preparation time :-) Anyways, those 12s was the first idea which went to my mind :-)

But ePap asked for battery life during flight :-)


No no no.Please try harder. wave

Also another issue pop up.
What is that 12 sec preparation time ? How do we realize that as operators?
For what reason exists ? mycomputer
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/09/13 10:22 AM

I know it isn't :-) I would guess somewhere around order of 30s, given the flight speed and maximum distance.

Preparation time is the time from "turning the missile on" till the moment it can be launched. It is time needed to start up gyros and all electronics and other systems.
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/09/13 10:30 AM

Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
I know it isn't :-) I would guess somewhere around order of 30s, given the flight speed and maximum distance.

Preparation time is the time from "turning the missile on" till the moment it can be launched. It is time neede to start up gyros and all electronics.


1. No no no.

2. Partly correct.This preparation take place only when we have a firing sequence ?
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/09/13 10:38 AM

I do not know with OSA, but I suppose it will be the same as with other SAM systems when you turn missiles on and in the mean time you do other things (no target can be acquired at all).

If the preparation was part of the firing sequence, you would lose 12s in the case of OSA and given the fact it is a short range system, you could be dead or the target could be away (not even talking about longer times with other SAMs).
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/09/13 10:54 AM

Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
I do not know with OSA, but I suppose it will be the same as with other SAM systems when you turn missiles on and in the mean time you do other things (no target can be acquired at all).

If the preparation would be part of the firing sequence, you will lose 12s in the case of OSA and given the fact it is a short range system, you could be dead or the target could be away (not even talking about longer times with other SAMs).


All the above are correct.
It is not necessary to have lock on target and to loose these 12 sec in the firing sequence.
As soon as you get EW for enemy plains in you area you can by the use of a switch to activate/prepare missiles and when
You think what is the proper time you lock and fire.All the above is tactics.

The most important issue behind the preparation of the missile is not that this is a part of the sequence of the fire BUT the
exercise (Russians call it trenasor ) of magnetron of the missile.

What about the battery?
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/09/13 10:56 AM

Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

But ePap asked for battery life during flight :-)


Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/09/13 11:24 AM

Yes, I guessed about 30s, but that was not correct, so I must admit I do not know. Maybe battery has a greater capacity to have enough capacity in cold weather and so, so under "normal" conditions it could last about 60s, but it is really a wild geuss :-)
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/09/13 11:41 AM

Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
We can find it somewhere in the internet, but you are the one who worked with them, so there is no point in this combat thumbsup


Bit of help...
biggrin


Osa-AKM Manual
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/09/13 11:44 AM

Thanks thumbsup
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/09/13 11:53 AM

Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
Yes, I guessed about 30s, but that was not correct, so I must admit I do not know. Maybe battery has a greater capacity to have enough capacity in cold weather and so, so under "normal" conditions it could last about 60s, but it is really a wild geuss :-)


Ok my friend.
Here it is the answer.
There is no battery at all, on the missile!!! winkngrin
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/09/13 12:01 PM

So does it have some pneumatic generator? It was a good joke :-)
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/09/13 12:12 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
We can find it somewhere in the internet, but you are the one who worked with them, so there is no point in this combat thumbsup


Man,it's not a combat ! mycomputer
More information about the system.
A hard core sim is under construction .
We need well trained operators...


It would be very beneficial for everybody, if you could start a series describing the OSA antenna systems, instruments, operation (target acquisition/tracking/engagement in steps) in longer posts...
thumbsup
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/09/13 12:40 PM

Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
So does it have some pneumatic generator? It was a good joke :-)


Yes it does!!! thumbsup
It has a metallic squib with nitrogen under extrem pressure .When the fire button is pressed a pyrotechnic divice energizes
This squib and the released nitrogen under pressure moves a pneumatic generator and it is produced
the necessary electric power.

This squib is just behind the Radom of the nose of the missile with the blue wirings at
http://simhq.com/forum/files/usergals/2013/03/full-17362-54433-_3226557.jpg
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/09/13 01:01 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp

It would be very beneficial for everybody, if you could start a series describing the OSA antenna systems, instruments, operation (target acquisition/tracking/engagement in steps) in longer posts...
thumbsup

YES!
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/09/13 01:28 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

But ePap asked for battery life during flight :-)




Basically the table is correct.
Live firings in NAMFI ,where STIR tracking radars track OSA-akm missiles revealed bigger average velocities from 16sec to 23 sec. !!!
Never lower of 500m/sec at the very last 23rd sec.That gave us the certainty of 1km extra range (very useful especially during
maneuvering targets ).

ePap smile2
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/09/13 05:57 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap

Basically the table is correct.


I believe this is for the old type of missile - OSA-MA (based on navy ships, equivalent of OSA-AK)...
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/09/13 08:46 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: ePap

Basically the table is correct.


I believe this is for the old type of missile - OSA-MA (based on navy ships, equivalent of OSA-AK)...


There were 3 OSA versions...

Version-1 OSA/OSA-M

1959, ELLIPSE development starts
1964, Developers replaced...
1970, Developers replaced again...
1971, 9K33 OSA (SA-8A Gecko) fielded
1973, OSA-M (SA-N-4 Gecko) fielded

Target Speed <=300 m/s
Altitude 200-5000m
Range 2,2-3,6 to 8.5-9 km
Parameter 6km

Target Speed 300-420 m/s
Range till 7.1km
Parameter 2-4km

Version-2 OSA-AK/OSA-MA

1971, OSA-A development starts (increased destruction zone)
1973, OSA-K development starts (6 missiles instead of 4)
1975, 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) fielded
1979, OSA-MA (SA-N-4 Gecko) fielded

6 containerized missile instead of 4, missile overload increased to 8g

Target Speed <=300 m/s
Altitude 25-5000m
Range 1500m to 10000m
Parameter 6km

Target Speed 300-500 m/s
Altitude 100-5000m
Range 1500m to 10000m
Parameter 4km


Version-3 OSA-AKM/OSA-MA2

1975, OSA-AKM development starts
1980, 9K33M3 OSA-AKM (SA-8B Gecko) fielded
198?, OSA-MA2 (SA-N-4 Gecko) fielded

Target Speed <=300 m/s
Altitude 25-5000m
Range 1500m to 10300m
Parameter 6km

Target Speed 300-500m/s
Altitude 100-5000m
Range 1500m to 10000m
Parameter 4km

Target Speed <=360km/h (helicopters)
Altitude 0-25m
Range 2000m to 6000m

Posted By: Mdore

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/10/13 02:34 AM

Originally Posted By: piston79


Are you sure those numbers are correct? I worked out speed and acceleration, and it looks strange. You might need to scroll the box below to see all the numbers.

Code:
TIME          DISTANCE          SPEED          ACCELERATION
1                75                75             +75
2               250               175            +100
3               510               260             +85
4               930               420            +160
5              1480               550            +130
6              2060               580             +30
7              2640               580               0
8              3220               580               0
9              3800               580               0
10             4380               580               0
11             4960               580               0
12             5540               580               0
13             6120               580               0
14             6700               580               0
15             7280               580               0
16             7860               580               0
17             8400               540             -40
18             8900               500             -40
19             9400               500               0
20             9880               480             -20
21            10300               420             -60
22            10700               400             -20
23            11050               350             -50


Look at the acceleration. It starts slowing down at 8400m, then stays the same speed at 9400m, then slows down a little, then a lot, then a little, then a lot. There's also a strange drop in acceleration at 510m.

I would have assumed it would be smoother.
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/10/13 05:00 AM

Originally Posted By: Mdore


Are you sure those numbers are correct?


No... I got it from a OSA-MA FCO, but sadly, he passed away on 1-st of April this year.... sigh
This man also worked on a some kind of missile simulator :

Math modeling

Maybe this is data from his simulator, I cannot ask him anymore...


May his soul rest in peace!...

frown frown frown frown frown frown


p.s. According to his data, motor burning time of 9M33 is 13.5 - 19.5 seconds...
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/10/13 07:15 AM

I looked to the forum, it looks interesting, but one note - Hpasp did not get away from the mathematical modelling, at least something of it - as I remember, he wrote he modelled about 50 dynamic parameters (forces, pressure and so on) for each missile in flight.
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/10/13 08:44 AM

epap @
do you have any document about SOC indicator ? how it work ?
and this indicator use for what kinde of other systems ?
sa-6 ? sa-11 ? humm?
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/10/13 09:43 AM

SOC indicator? Do you mean IKO?

In any case read the OSA manual Hpasap posted before :-)
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/10/13 12:15 PM

im sorry .... my meant was SCC elevation indicator !
how it work ? and what kind of sam systems had it indicator?
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/10/13 03:02 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: ePap

Basically the table is correct.


I believe this is for the old type of missile - OSA-MA (based on navy ships, equivalent of OSA-AK)...




http://simhq.com/forum/files/usergals/2013/05/full-35562-57619-pic3_3.jpg

The actual range is less 560m because of tha offset position of STIR TTR.
Posted By: Mdore

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/11/13 04:00 AM

Not sure where those pictures came from, but there's a big mistake in some of the red text.

1999-7-13 14:15:25 to 1999-7-14 12:08:37 isn't +12 seconds. It's +21 hours 53 minutes and 12 seconds.

But if the SA-8 does hit 630m/s then the table posted earlier is wrong, because the table never goes above 580m/s
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/11/13 08:25 AM

Originally Posted By: Mdore
Not sure where those pictures came from, but there's a big mistake in some of the red text.

1999-7-13 14:15:25 to 1999-7-14 12:08:37 isn't +12 seconds. It's +21 hours 53 minutes and 12 seconds.

But if the SA-8 does hit 630m/s then the table posted earlier is wrong, because the table never goes above 580m/s


By mistake uploaded T0 picture from a privious fire (two hours before).
The correct one is edited.
You have doubts about the authenticity ?

PS : the t+12 is now t+15
Posted By: Lieste

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/11/13 10:42 AM

It might be consistent if there is a substantial lead angle - range only increases at the rate given by velocity if there is no lateral movement.

For a 21 degree lead/crossing angle (which might be seen for a moderate parameter, high speed target) then 580m/s range rate is equal to 630m/s velocity.
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/11/13 02:45 PM

Originally Posted By: Lieste
It might be consistent if there is a substantial lead angle - range only increases at the rate given by velocity if there is no lateral movement.

For a 21 degree lead/crossing angle (which might be seen for a moderate parameter, high speed target) then 580m/s range rate is equal to 630m/s velocity.


Or the presented chart has to be revised ... smile2
Here a new pic from the tracking STIR 1.8 exactly behide an OSA-AKM at NAMFI with t0 t+6 t+12 and t+17(KILL).


PS : weather good,no tailwinds... wave
Posted By: Hpasp

OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/12/13 12:17 PM

Range Officer, Azimuth Officer
(button-Z/Y)


Azimuth Officer, Elevation Officer
(button-X)

Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/12/13 12:27 PM

Great!!!!
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/12/13 02:16 PM

Fantastic !!!
Posted By: farokh

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/12/13 06:02 PM

new screen mode was a really good idea dear hpasp!
with this situation i can feel im a real FCO and i sitting right there !
this screen from this view is a real realistic

its amazing decision thumbsup
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/13/13 06:53 AM

Hpasp: will there be a possibility with OSA to zoom on each indicator, like in case of Vega (keys A-Z, X-S and C-D)?
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/13/13 09:43 AM

Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
Hpasp: will there be a possibility with OSA to zoom on each indicator, like in case of Vega (keys A-Z, X-S and C-D)?


No.
During target acquisition, you need to be able to see two indicators at the same time.
(it is the reason, why this screen arrangement was selected)
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/13/13 10:12 AM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
Hpasp: will there be a possibility with OSA to zoom on each indicator, like in case of Vega (keys A-Z, X-S and C-D)?


No.
During target acquisition, you need to be able to see two indicators at the same time.
(it is the reason, why this screen arrangement was selected)



You can do that only with PPI scope by means of TAR (target acquisition radar).
When you have to engage (acquire/track) a target then you use all the indicators involving
TTR (target tracking radar).

Your baby : is fantastic,thanks again. thumbsup
Posted By: max2012

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/13/13 01:08 PM


Hpasp done all I will say that does that.

I am pleased that even as he does.

Only unfortunately do not know when the release, there is no Plan.

2013 or 2014 is not clear.
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/13/13 06:00 PM

max: you terribly repeat yourself. Remember your stupid question about date regarding Shilka. It will be done when it is done. Period.
Posted By: max2012

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/14/13 06:49 PM


Yeah, I just can not be asked or ask, you already have ready to tear at my question.

I did not tell you anything bad, not necessarily need to tell me.
Posted By: max2012

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/14/13 06:50 PM


I'm just asking, do not have to ask?
Posted By: farokh

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/14/13 07:17 PM

please be cool and take it easy with deep breath guys !
here is not yard of school ! lightsabers
dear allien @
max has not any sins ! he is one guy, like me and like you too
but here is little different between us ! max has not any Tolerance phase ! just it
and please try to choose good word when on guy do not use bad words! cheers

max@
mix your 2 posts at one post ! PLEASE (!)
and for some questions like upper question , u can usie from private msg ! reading
Posted By: max2012

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/14/13 08:50 PM


I understand you!
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/16/13 10:31 AM

Currently I'm working on the only instrument, that was missed from all the simulated SAM systems so far...
... still I'm not convinced, that it could be recreated at the quality level I would expect for SAMSIM.

Screenshots during the weekend...
Posted By: Mdore

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/16/13 11:39 AM

Which instrument? SSC Elevation?

OR can it possibly be, a working TV?
Posted By: farokh

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/16/13 12:30 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Currently I'm working on the only instrument, that was missed from all the simulated SAM systems so far...


no ... its not anything about SCC indicator !
HPASP said one instrument that was missed from all of the simulated sam systems

so ... we need thinking that what is One thing common between sam sim systems reading
im not sure its about TV karat tracking because for this object HPASP need one really graphic engine rolleyes confused
Posted By: Mdore

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/16/13 01:29 PM

You don't really need to use a graphics engine. I know 3D is very popular in modern games, but 20-30 years ago real 3D was very rare. Fake 3D made from 2D sprites was more common and is pretty easy to do today.

Fake 2D won't look as pretty as a propper 3D engine with a 3D world, but 2D engines could look good enough for target recognition and tracking.
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/16/13 02:22 PM

It must be the TV screen, elevation indicator is already at some state of functionality, see the last screenshots.
Posted By: farokh

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/16/13 02:29 PM

guys how many Percent possible , that this picture could be from sam sim biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin




any idea ?
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/16/13 02:36 PM

Originally Posted By: Mdore
You don't really need to use a graphics engine. I know 3D is very popular in modern games, but 20-30 years ago real 3D was very rare. Fake 3D made from 2D sprites was more common and is pretty easy to do today.

Fake 2D won't look as pretty as a propper 3D engine with a 3D world, but 2D engines could look good enough for target recognition and tracking.


The simulator used in trainning to OSA akm systems represented the target in day light camera as a 2D steady big dash .
With the the good knowledge of or range indicator and a lot of imagination you can see what a target is doing ...
Posted By: farokh

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/16/13 02:45 PM

for this simulation we need several things

1. sky + clouds
2. targets + shape of current aircraft + body designation
3. missiles + missile shapes + missile flight path with engine smoke
4. wave of explosion like real parameters of warhead

you guys think that all of this objects could be simulate on 2D graphical ?
.
.
.
.
who knows ? maybe upper pic is for sam sim KARAT ! screwy
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/16/13 02:51 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
for this simulation we need several things

1. sky + clouds
2. targets + shape of current aircraft + body designation
3. missiles + missile shapes + missile flight path with engine smoke
4. wave of explosion like real parameters of warhead

you guys think that all of this objects could be simulate on 2D graphical ?
.
.
.
.
who knows ? maybe upper pic is for sam sim KARAT ! screwy


Or Hpasp will integrate Dcs world into simsam... smile2
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/16/13 03:00 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
guys how many Percent possible , that this picture could be from sam sim biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin




any idea ?


This is not what you see through OSA day light camera.
This is the stir tracking camera which is behind 500m and tracks the MISSILE for safety and data analysis.
Posted By: Mdore

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/16/13 03:04 PM

So, maybe SAM Simulator will look like this? smile
Posted By: farokh

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/16/13 03:06 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap


Or Hpasp will integrate Dcs world into simsam... smile2


EPAP @ you know it better than me, that if SAM SIM goes to DCS ... im am sure no one cant fly currently bump
and all of aircrafts has to jump to earth for run from missile every minute !

Hmmm with TV tracking channel ... welcome to sam sim empire crew

Posted By: apelles

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/16/13 03:09 PM

ePap, have the OSA real chance against helicopters? clutter, low speed, maneuverability, masking is problem?
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/16/13 03:26 PM

Originally Posted By: apelles
ePap, have the OSA real chance against helicopters? clutter, low speed, maneuverability, masking is problem?


What makes you to have doubts about this ?

Masking IS a problem for every ADA system ...
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/16/13 03:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Mdore
So, maybe SAM Simulator will look like this? smile



+1000
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/16/13 03:33 PM

Originally Posted By: Mdore
So, maybe SAM Simulator will look like this? smile



Quiz
How much the range of the target in real life target like this?
And why?
Posted By: Mdore

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/16/13 03:38 PM

<5km?

Based on some photos and videos I saw when making the image, I guess it would have to be close.
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/16/13 03:42 PM

Originally Posted By: Mdore
<5km?

Based on some photos and videos I saw when making the image, I guess it would have to be close.


Nice try,but I need a more scientific approach ... smile2
Posted By: farokh

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/16/13 04:00 PM

EPAP @ would u show to us one photo from real TV tracking display with high details of sa-8 ?
and say somthing about tracking range and optical zoom about this camera
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/16/13 04:17 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
EPAP @ would u show to us one photo from real TV tracking display with high details of sa-8 ?
and say somthing about tracking range and optical zoom about this camera



I do not have a pic from real tv tracking but I can tell you that you are in the correct path to solve the quiz ...
A little help.The target is about 7 km...
Posted By: farokh

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/16/13 04:25 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: farokh
EPAP @ would u show to us one photo from real TV tracking display with high details of sa-8 ?
and say somthing about tracking range and optical zoom about this camera



I do not have a pic from real tv tracking but I can tell you that you are in the correct path to solve the quiz ...
A little help.The target is about 7 km...


could we zoom on target ? how many X ? 4X ? 8X ? or we cant zoom at all ?
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/16/13 04:37 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: farokh
EPAP @ would u show to us one photo from real TV tracking display with high details of sa-8 ?
and say somthing about tracking range and optical zoom about this camera



I do not have a pic from real tv tracking but I can tell you that you are in the correct path to solve the quiz ...
A little help.The target is about 7 km...


could we zoom on target ? how many X ? 4X ? 8X ? or we cant zoom at all ?


Is it enough with zoom to estimate the range ?
You are close but try harder..
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/16/13 04:51 PM

Key point for the above is the dimentions of the cross in the middle of the camera.
It is a reticle of 3 mills !
The zoom actualy is the narrow field with 1x1.4deg and the wide with 3.5x4.7deg.
Posted By: apelles

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/16/13 05:23 PM

Shilka has a memory mode for targets ie- masked helos. :-)
Posted By: piston79

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/16/13 05:23 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
EPAP @ would u show to us one photo from real TV tracking display with high details of sa-8 ?
and say somthing about tracking range and optical zoom about this camera



Posted By: farokh

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/16/13 05:28 PM

Originally Posted By: apelles
Shilka has a memory mode for targets ie- masked helos. :-)

what about attack to jaming target ?
operators has to use from optical TV lol
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/16/13 05:54 PM

Originally Posted By: apelles
Shilka has a memory mode for targets ie- masked helos. :-)


Ok.Now we are on a safe path...
Of course it has! Semi automatic mode.Track the target with the last angular rates in azimuth and elevation. smile2
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/16/13 06:03 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: farokh
EPAP @ would u show to us one photo from real TV tracking display with high details of sa-8 ?
and say somthing about tracking range and optical zoom about this camera





This is video from exercise With friendly F-4 somewhere in a Greek island. The remarks written in YouTube About it by some local hotheaded,are stupidities.
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/16/13 06:10 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: apelles
Shilka has a memory mode for targets ie- masked helos. :-)

what about attack to jaming target ?
operators has to use from optical TV lol


The operator has in his disposal a lot of ECCM capabilities.
Basically the camera is used for identification and firing results.It is not an auto tracking camera .
For hellos you have much more chances to manually follow them.
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/16/13 06:40 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: farokh
EPAP @ would u show to us one photo from real TV tracking display with high details of sa-8 ?
and say somthing about tracking range and optical zoom about this camera





This is video from exercise friendly F-4 somewhere in a Greek island. The remarks written in YouTube About it by some local hotheaded,are stupidities.


But you can see even in very short range ,less than 3km ,the TTR can follow the target easily with 90deg bearing .
The tracking rates at this moment should be around 20deg/sec but it is not a good time to fire,at all...
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/16/13 06:47 PM

@Hpasp
At the 1:08 of this video you can see how the range scope sweeps look like . smile2
Posted By: Hpasp

OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/17/13 05:46 PM

WARNING!!!

I'm not convinced, that the quality of KARAT camera in the SAMSIM could reach an acceptable level.
Please view these screen-shots only as experiments.
It might happen eventually, that KARAT will be unavailable with the OSA similarly to other systems...

Zoom-out (wide view)


Zoom-in (narrow view)


The ground image is quite blocky with zoom-in mode.
When the Karat zooms in, it shows 1.4 degree in azimuth.
By using 256 pixel per TV screen, it would mean ~183 pixel per 1 degree, 65'829 azimuth pixel per firing site (obviously too big)...
Posted By: farokh

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/17/13 07:02 PM

you meant was .... you cant release TV KARAT on sam sim right ? rolleyes
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/17/13 07:47 PM

means what I said...
... Im experimenting with it.
Posted By: Mdore

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/18/13 05:18 AM

Wow, I was pretty sure you weren't going to do TV. This'll be amazing if you can make it work. Every system except the SA-5 has a TV or visual mode. It might be a lot of work, but you could do it on every system! :O

Have you decided if you are you going to be using 2D sprites or 3D models for targets?

If screen blockyness is a problem, have you thought about using overlapping 2D terrain like shapes? Like this







Of course you'd probably get better results if you spent more time of the details. That's just what I did in 10 minutes.
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/18/13 05:48 AM

The wide and narrow field of view is achieved by the interchange of lenses with F=150 and F=500 cm respectively .
The Vidicon has 500 vertical and 600 horizontal lines.
The density of sweep lines is 841 at a rate of 50 sweep half-frames.

Thanks again Hpasp ! smile2
Posted By: farokh

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/18/13 01:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Mdore
Wow, I was pretty sure you weren't going to do TV. This'll be amazing if you can make it work. Every system except the SA-5 has a TV or visual mode. It might be a lot of work, but you could do it on every system! :O

Have you decided if you are you going to be using 2D sprites or 3D models for targets?

If screen blockyness is a problem, have you thought about using overlapping 2D terrain like shapes? Like this







Of course you'd probably get better results if you spent more time of the details. That's just what I did in 10 minutes.


can hpasp add more pixels for TV environment ?
i guess only hpasp needs , is more pixels ! how hpasp can add more pixels to 2D graphical environment ?
for more pixels we need other graphical engine ?
Posted By: Hpasp

OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/18/13 05:10 PM

A better resolution Karat camera screenshot.

Posted By: Hpasp

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/18/13 05:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Mdore
Wow, I was pretty sure you weren't going to do TV. This'll be amazing if you can make it work. Every system except the SA-5 has a TV or visual mode. It might be a lot of work, but you could do it on every system! :O

Have you decided if you are you going to be using 2D sprites or 3D models for targets?

If screen blockyness is a problem, have you thought about using overlapping 2D terrain like shapes? Like this

Click to reveal..






Of course you'd probably get better results if you spent more time of the details. That's just what I did in 10 minutes.


I prefer to use real terrain mesh from the NASA 100m digital terrain model.
The problem is that the camera has much higher resolution, than the radar.

This current model is running at an acceptable speed on my 8 core Intel i7-860 (2,8Ghz) CPU.
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/18/13 05:39 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: Mdore
Wow, I was pretty sure you weren't going to do TV. This'll be amazing if you can make it work. Every system except the SA-5 has a TV or visual mode. It might be a lot of work, but you could do it on every system! :O

Have you decided if you are you going to be using 2D sprites or 3D models for targets?

If screen blockyness is a problem, have you thought about using overlapping 2D terrain like shapes? Like this

Click to reveal..






Of course you'd probably get better results if you spent more time of the details. That's just what I did in 10 minutes.



I prefer to use real terrain mesh from the NASA 100m digital terrain model.
The problem is that the camera has much higher resolution, than the radar.

This current model is running at an acceptable speed on my 8 core Intel i7-860 (2,8Ghz) CPU.


Great !
What about arial targets ?What is going to be the approach ? smile2
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/18/13 07:22 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
A better resolution Karat camera screenshot.




Please help Beta test this version.

You can download the Delta, from here.
http://www.mediafire.com/?d0dxvk5yvrpmiy0
Just overwrite the installation with these files. (no installer included)

Please share your Hardware configuration, and if the speed of it is acceptable.
(please share the average value displayed over the IKO, during tower rotation)

Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/18/13 08:47 PM

During turret up and down when horizont is visible it is about 19-34fps, sometimes something like 4 blinks in. Movement is a very bit coarse with horizon on screen, but it is perfectly acceptable. The question is the framerate with target visible.

Notebook I5-2410M, 2,3GHz.
Posted By: piston79

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/18/13 09:06 PM

Intel Pentium Dual CPU E2160 1.80 GHz; 2.00 Gb RAM

Without movement 18-19, when rotating - 1!... frown

Please, make it by choise, as I cannot use it.... (no intention to buy new machine soon)...
Posted By: Muggs

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/18/13 09:26 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Please share your Hardware configuration, and if the speed of it is acceptable.
(please share the average value displayed over the IKO, during tower rotation


34-35 during rotation.

i7 3.2 GHz, 6 GB RAM, ATI 6970 2GB.
Posted By: montieris

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/18/13 09:33 PM

T9400 2.53ghz
-------
during rotation fps window show 35-17-3 (average feels like 15fps)
Posted By: farokh

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/18/13 09:37 PM

AMD phenom II 1090 3.4ghz
ATI 1GB 5700
DDR4: 2GB corsair

in normal situation its on 34 but when i use TV rotating ... frame rate jump to 3 and then 19 and going back to 34 and again again and again !
Posted By: Mdore

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/19/13 12:54 AM

Well, I could post my machine specs, but I'm running SAM Sim on Linux using Wine, so that's always going to give me poor performance compared to if I was running Windows software on real Windows.

The number shows 1 constantly.

Framerate feels around 3fps.



Hpasp, how are you drawing the terrain? Are you constantly regenerating it every frame from the height data or range data or something?

If you are, have you considered just creating the entire 360' display once in an offscreen buffer, then just blit the 1' x 1' you're looking at?
Posted By: Hpasp

OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/19/13 05:54 AM

Please test also...

- fast turret rotation
- vertical scan
- zoom

... these does not have extra effect (beside normal rotation) on frame rate at my system.



@Piston79, and Mdore
Please report the value above IKO, with the "Y/Z" screen.


The TV screen use a 360 degree panorama picture (19608x1100), and displays only the small part (256x196) where the KARAT actually looks.
It only draws the "ground", "sky" is just the background.
It only redraws the screen, when elevation/azimuth changes.
Site location is...
http://goo.gl/maps/9ss6r
... you can look around with Google Earth, and find the same hills.
Posted By: Mdore

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/19/13 06:33 AM

The number is "1" constantly for me, and none of the switches make any difference to the number or frame rate.

But like I said, I'm not running on Microsoft Windows, so don't take my performance too seriouslly. It could be fine for everyone else.
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/19/13 07:08 AM

Hpasp: do you use some HW acceleration for faster redrawing? I tried to enable external graphic card in my notebook, but it looked about the same as with integrated graphics.
Posted By: farokh

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/19/13 08:41 AM

ok ok i got this one look hpasp !
when i used horizontal rotation i do not feel little lags ! its was on 20 till 34 only even i used fast rotation horizontal
god damn ... fast horizontal rotation sound is like hand of robot sound biggrin veeeeeezh veeeeeezh

but when i used vertical scan "auto or manual" i feel lag like others ! 3 till 19 till 34
i guess vertical scan use more long parameters to move per m/s and its is reason for lags
horizontal scan move very smooth and soft than vertical rotation

AMD phenom II 1090 3.4ghz
ATI 5700 1GB
DDR4 : 2GB corsair
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/19/13 08:58 AM

Number above the IKO is not the frame rate.

It represents the load on your system.
If it is 50 (max), than your system has available plenty of free resources.
If it is 1 (min), than your system is fully overloaded, unable to cope with the math...
Posted By: Muggs

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/19/13 10:00 AM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Please test also...

- fast turret rotation
- vertical scan
- zoom

... these does not have extra effect (beside normal rotation) on frame rate at my system.


Still 34-35. Dips to 19 for a second now and again, but most of the time it's at 34-35
Posted By: piston79

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/19/13 10:41 AM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp


@Piston79, and Mdore
Please report the value above IKO, with the "Y/Z" screen.



Y- screen - 34 , sometimes drops to 19-21 for part of the second...
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/19/13 11:00 AM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: Hpasp


@Piston79, and Mdore
Please report the value above IKO, with the "Y/Z" screen.



Y- screen - 34 , sometimes drops to 19-21 for part of the second...


Thanks, that means the scenario, when KARAT is off.

Please do not concentrate only at the load number, rather on the feeling if this is fast enough.
I completely rewritten the code, now it feels bit more smoother, but the load number got lower (from 35 to 19).
(basically I use different math)
http://www.mediafire.com/?6ymddnxwovtede6
Posted By: piston79

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/19/13 11:22 AM

In fact, when using fast rotation it is about 19, when using had rotation - 1... Also KARAT screen looks smother than IKO... frown

Please, if it is possible, make KARAT optional (Like Digital Elevation Mesh)....
Posted By: Mdore

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/19/13 11:55 AM

Hpasp, that last patch massively improved speed on my computer.

Before, when I rotated it was 3fps and everything went slow, even the SOC. Now this latest patch, everything is the same speed whether I rotate or not. Nice and fast.

Good work! whoohoo
Posted By: piston79

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/19/13 12:08 PM

I'm fine too with new patch!!!! smile
Posted By: ricnunes

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/19/13 02:38 PM

With the latest beta patch and in my system:

Intel Core2 Duo E7500 @2.93 GHz
Ati HD7850 2Ghz
8 GB RAM

I must say that the TV system runs smoothly with ranging from 34/35 FPS max. (most of the times) to 19 FPS min. (only on rare occasions). The TV system pans smoothly on every occasion: With or without zoom, with manual or automatic panning and independently on what FPS I get.

BTW, I can only pan the TV system in elevation, how can I pan the TV in horizontal azimuth?

Also, where's the button to shut down the SA-8?
Posted By: Mdore

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/19/13 02:46 PM

Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/19/13 03:07 PM

Originally Posted By: Mdore



This is "the high voltage on/off switch" of the search radar.
The RED button which switch off the OSA-akm is in another panel 0096-9M1 (not introduced yet) on your left looking
Towards the existing panels.
I am sure that Hpasp will introduce it in the near future . wave
Posted By: Mdore

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/19/13 03:19 PM

ePap, When the SOC was in 15km range mode, were the range rings really at 2km, 7km and 12km?

I'm not sure if it's a bug because Hpasp isn't finnished, or if it was real.

It seems strange to me. Why not 5, 10, 15. Or 2,4,6,8,10... or something else ordered like that.
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/19/13 03:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Mdore
ePap, When the SOC was in 15km range mode, were the range rings really at 2km, 7km and 12km?

I'm not sure if it's a bug because Hpasp isn't finnished, or if it was real.

It seems strange to me. Why not 5, 10, 15. Or 2,4,6,8,10... or something else ordered like that.


No it is not a bug.
It is real and Hpasp did excellent job ,as always. smile2
The reason has a technical answer .The range rings always have 5 km gap besides the first gap at 0-15 km mode which is 2 km.
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/19/13 03:40 PM

Faster at me, just very slight (almost unnoticeable) coarseness of SOC when moving in azimuth (not in elevation). 35 most of the time, sometimes 19, exceptionally one digit number.
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/19/13 04:12 PM

Originally Posted By: Mdore
ePap, When the SOC was in 15km range mode, were the range rings really at 2km, 7km and 12km?

I'm not sure if it's a bug because Hpasp isn't finnished, or if it was real.

It seems strange to me. Why not 5, 10, 15. Or 2,4,6,8,10... or something else ordered like that.


15km mode is against pop-up helos flying at the tree level.
The OSA range against targets below 25m (in altitude) is 2km (minimum) and 6.5km (maximum).
Posted By: ricnunes

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/19/13 04:46 PM

Originally Posted By: Mdore



Thanks very much for the reply, Mdore!
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/19/13 04:50 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: Mdore
ePap, When the SOC was in 15km range mode, were the range rings really at 2km, 7km and 12km?

I'm not sure if it's a bug because Hpasp isn't finnished, or if it was real.

It seems strange to me. Why not 5, 10, 15. Or 2,4,6,8,10... or something else ordered like that.


15km mode is against pop-up helos flying at the tree level.
The OSA range against targets below 25m (in altitude) is 2km (minimum) and 6.5km (maximum).


The main operational mode for the OSA-akm is the 0-35 km selection.
You have to have a target with the TAR (target acquisition radar) at 0-35 km scope and using tactics to switch to 0-15 km
as a zoom in condition and consetrate to a particular target.
You will never be at 0-15 km from the begging because you will be over run,most probably,because you will not have much time
to react and the target will be quickly in your negative cone of acquisition radar.

As soon as you acquire a lock to a slow target then you will feel more comfortable to switch to 0-15 km mode and enjoy it... smile2
Posted By: max2012

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/19/13 04:58 PM


Thank Hpasp!

Goes very smoothly I really liked the dashboard just like the HD is doing very good.

TV CARAT this sight is very well liked me.

  You could then do the same with the Dvina with the "dog house."

  Thanks for the demo, so you can add one goal so for demonstrations.
Posted By: jazjar

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/19/13 05:04 PM

Intel quad core i7. 2.4 gHz, AMD HD 6770, 12 gig RAM
Posted By: jazjar

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/19/13 05:15 PM

Works very well, never deviates from 19.
Posted By: farokh

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/19/13 07:26 PM

right now after download new patch ... i do not feel any lag
vertical roration and horizontal rotaion works fine

hpasp... tnQ to your hard effort ... right now ... i have nothing to say and im still in deep shock with your hardest efforts
i cant imagine that one day we could have a TV tracking but you did it ... like a boss
you are a legend grunt
Posted By: jazjar

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/19/13 11:12 PM

Excellent job doing the TV tracking. I think it is plenty sufficient for Sam simulator and would work fine with the game. I hope this can lead perhaps one day to an SA-13 or something of that nature.
Posted By: max2012

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/20/13 11:10 AM


About the SA-13 can be more interesting if the S-300.

But the S-300 probably will not soon be.

OSA is a substitution SAM "Thor", I wonder will the "Thor" or not.
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/20/13 11:23 AM

max: do you have any operating documentation for the above?
Posted By: farokh

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/20/13 11:34 AM

Originally Posted By: max2012

About the SA-13 can be more interesting if the S-300.

But the S-300 probably will not soon be.

OSA is a substitution SAM "Thor", I wonder will the "Thor" or not.



thor right ? you thinking that access to tor is really easy lol? confused
thor still under heavy national security of all of countries !
and why you think that you can Comparison sa-8 with thor ?
access to c-300 pmu is very easier than thor or tor !
thumbsup
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/20/13 12:00 PM

Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
max: do you have any operating documentation for the above?


Strela-10 (SA-13) manual is available on the net...
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/ebooks/Strela-10(1990).djvu
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/20/13 12:39 PM

Yes, I know this. I wrote about S-300 and Tor which I understood max wants more.
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/20/13 02:17 PM

Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
Yes, I know this. I wrote about S-300 and Tor which I understood max wants more.


TOR-M1 is THE perfect system but very boring for Sam simulator!
You have nothing to do as operator.You press one button to lock the target and then you press the fire button.
Nothing more,nothing less. smile2
Posted By: Mdore

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/20/13 02:33 PM

You have used the TOR in real life?
Posted By: piston79

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/20/13 03:02 PM

Originally Posted By: Mdore
You have used the TOR in real life?


Yes, he use to use it:

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20071227/94327525.html
Posted By: farokh

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/20/13 03:04 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap

TOR-M1 is THE perfect system but very boring for Sam simulator!
You have nothing to do as operator.You press one button to lock the target and then you press the fire button.
Nothing more,nothing less. smile2


i knew it but,,,, what about s-300 and patriot ?
i guess these are boring like tor right ?
choose target on scope and pusk ... right ?

Ps: guys do you have any picture from inside of tor ?
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/20/13 03:28 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: Mdore
You have used the TOR in real life?


Yes, he use to use it:

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20071227/94327525.html


This refered to a follow on support of training.
We use TOR-M1 since late of 1999 .
You can't imagine what this system can do... smile2
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/20/13 03:41 PM

http://rutube.ru/video/07fca1caf4ae1340f791c593e1478618/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8JuWegTb2o

Posted By: Mdore

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/20/13 04:04 PM

Can the SA-8 track a target automatically using the television camera? Or is it for manual tracking only?
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/20/13 04:07 PM

Originally Posted By: Mdore
Can the SA-8 track a target automatically using the television camera? Or is it for manual tracking only?


Only manual tracking.
Posted By: Mdore

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/20/13 04:25 PM

Can the SA-8 hit ground targets? Can any SAM hit ground targets after the SA-2 and SA-3?
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/20/13 04:40 PM

Originally Posted By: Mdore
Can the SA-8 hit ground targets? Can any SAM hit ground targets after the SA-2 and SA-3?


Theoretically yes.
You see the target by the use of camera and you insert the correct range (key element) and the system selects the Fi mode and you fire.
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/20/13 04:49 PM

Quiz

What is the difference between a ground target and a landed/hovering helicopter ,as a target for an ADA system!
Posted By: piston79

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/20/13 05:08 PM

Blades....
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/20/13 05:11 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Blades....


Which means ...
Posted By: ricnunes

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/20/13 05:12 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
Quiz

What is the difference between a ground target and a landed/hovering helicopter ,as a target for an ADA system!


One is in the air (hovering helicopter) while the other isn't (ground target and landed helicopter). biggrin
Now seriously, I can imagine that when using the radar to guide a SAM there's quite a difference between air target and ground target due to ground clutter but when using a optical system to guide a SAM it doesn't matter if it's on the ground or air, you just need to point the optical/TV system towards the intended target.

Regarding optical Anti-Air (SAM) systems, one SAM system that I find quite interesting is the Canadian ADATS which is indeed considered a dual purpose system (ADATS - Air Defence Anti-Tank System) and this dual purpose is possible because the missile relies on optical systems (FLIR and Day TV) to guide the missile (which is Laser guided) and of course the missile also carries a warhead capable of defeating armored targets (besides aircraft).

Now that we have optical systems in SAM simulator can I request the ADATS for a future system to be added to SAM Simulator? wink


BTW, some info regarding the ADATS:
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/adats/
Posted By: piston79

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/20/13 05:13 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: piston79
Blades....


Which means ...


Bigger reflection, Doppler effect....
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/20/13 05:18 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: piston79
Blades....


Which means ...


Bigger reflection, Doppler effect....


Correct. wave
Posted By: max2012

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/20/13 05:59 PM

Question, but as regarding "Dvina" there she too has Optical Channel this "Dog House" can and her also to do as at OSA.

Posted By: max2012

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/20/13 06:02 PM

And regarding "Thor" if Secretly then certainly in any way not to do, let does then what is not Secret.

Posted By: GrayGhost

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/21/13 01:58 PM

Canada cancelled it. ADATS was too expensive and too ineffective. Jack of all trades, master of none.

Originally Posted By: ricnunes
Regarding optical Anti-Air (SAM) systems, one SAM system that I find quite interesting is the Canadian ADATS which is indeed considered a dual purpose system (ADATS - Air Defence Anti-Tank System) and this dual purpose is possible because the missile relies on optical systems (FLIR and Day TV) to guide the missile (which is Laser guided) and of course the missile also carries a warhead capable of defeating armored targets (besides aircraft).
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/21/13 02:46 PM

Originally Posted By: GrayGhost
Canada cancelled it. ADATS was too expensive and too ineffective. Jack of all trades, master of none.

Originally Posted By: ricnunes
Regarding optical Anti-Air (SAM) systems, one SAM system that I find quite interesting is the Canadian ADATS which is indeed considered a dual purpose system (ADATS - Air Defence Anti-Tank System) and this dual purpose is possible because the missile relies on optical systems (FLIR and Day TV) to guide the missile (which is Laser guided) and of course the missile also carries a warhead capable of defeating armored targets (besides aircraft).


You are so right!!!
That's why my country rejected the offer of used ADATS at lates of1990.
Too expensive Antitank system... smile2
Posted By: ricnunes

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/21/13 10:13 PM

Originally Posted By: GrayGhost
Canada cancelled it. ADATS was too expensive and too ineffective. Jack of all trades, master of none.

Originally Posted By: ricnunes
Regarding optical Anti-Air (SAM) systems, one SAM system that I find quite interesting is the Canadian ADATS which is indeed considered a dual purpose system (ADATS - Air Defence Anti-Tank System) and this dual purpose is possible because the missile relies on optical systems (FLIR and Day TV) to guide the missile (which is Laser guided) and of course the missile also carries a warhead capable of defeating armored targets (besides aircraft).



According from almost everything that I read the ADATS is yes, expensive but no it's not ineffective, by the contrary - The ADATS is considered to be a very effective system against low flying aircraft, specially against helicopters. The ADATS missile is very fast with a top speed of Mach3, it's very precise, has a very powerful warhead and due to it's guiding system is immune to decoys and/or countermeasures such as Flares and has a decent max range of 10Km (for a mobile short range SAM). I would say that the ADATS is for example much more effective than the Stinger missile. But of course this can be disputed since the ADATS never entered in real combat.
The ADATS initially had some reliability problems (when initially developed in the 80's) but these reliability problems where mostly solved.

Anyway the reasons why Canada retired (NOT canceled) the ADATS resumes to the following:
- Too expensive! Canadian Armed Forces are facing some major budget cuts and one of the systems that the Canadian Forces decided to cut/retire was the ADATS, due not only to it's high costs but also due to the idea that an Air Defence system is currently unnecessary for Canada - an idea which I disagree, since Air Defence systems will always be important, since there will always happen situations where ground forces will be attacked by air forces, even when those ground forces are supposedly protected by large or superior air forces - Just look at a situation where French UN troops where attacked by SU-25s in Ivory Coast.
- An "orphan" system - Canada is the only country that uses or used the ADATS (besides Thailand which only operates 2 fixed ADATS launchers) and as such this makes the ADATS system even more expensive specially if there's future desire to upgrade it.

Despite the ADATS is no longer in service I still would like to see it modeled in SAM simulator and well, asking/dreaming doesn't cost anything, does it... wink
Posted By: ricnunes

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/21/13 10:19 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: GrayGhost
Canada cancelled it. ADATS was too expensive and too ineffective. Jack of all trades, master of none.

Originally Posted By: ricnunes
Regarding optical Anti-Air (SAM) systems, one SAM system that I find quite interesting is the Canadian ADATS which is indeed considered a dual purpose system (ADATS - Air Defence Anti-Tank System) and this dual purpose is possible because the missile relies on optical systems (FLIR and Day TV) to guide the missile (which is Laser guided) and of course the missile also carries a warhead capable of defeating armored targets (besides aircraft).


You are so right!!!
That's why my country rejected the offer of used ADATS at lates of1990.
To expensive Antitank system... smile2


According from that I read, the main reason why ADATS was not sold to Greece seemed to be because Canadian government officials demanded that the ADATS exported to Greece could never be transferred to Cyprus. At the time ADATS was considered one of the favourite systems in the Greek program to procure an Air Defence System.
But I also agree that the ADATS cost together with the reason above certainly decide the ADATS "fate" regarding a possible export to Greece.
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/22/13 04:33 AM

Originally Posted By: ricnunes
Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: GrayGhost
Canada cancelled it. ADATS was too expensive and too ineffective. Jack of all trades, master of none.

Originally Posted By: ricnunes
Regarding optical Anti-Air (SAM) systems, one SAM system that I find quite interesting is the Canadian ADATS which is indeed considered a dual purpose system (ADATS - Air Defence Anti-Tank System) and this dual purpose is possible because the missile relies on optical systems (FLIR and Day TV) to guide the missile (which is Laser guided) and of course the missile also carries a warhead capable of defeating armored targets (besides aircraft).


You are so right!!!
That's why my country rejected the offer of used ADATS at lates of1990.
To expensive Antitank system... smile2


According from that I read, the main reason why ADATS was not sold to Greece seemed to be because Canadian government officials demanded that the ADATS exported to Greece could never be transferred to Cyprus. At the time ADATS was considered one of the favourite systems in the Greek program to procure an Air Defence System.
But I also agree that the ADATS cost together with the reason above certainly decide the ADATS "fate" regarding a possible export to Greece.


My dear friend this is not truth.Never ever was the problem of possible transfer of ADA systems to Cuprus.After Jusus there are a lot of prophets...
The reason is that it was evaluated and rejected.Also US rejected.You are talking for the ADATS missile but were not there during firings to see that one third of them hit the ground after lunch and one third missed the drone targets?Do you know that you have to follow the target manually (no auto tracking) and the 15 tons on M113 carrier can hardly move even in plain ground?
Posted By: ricnunes

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/23/13 02:21 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
Do you know that you have to follow the target manually (no auto tracking)...


Sorry but I find that VERY HARD to believe since the ADATS electro-optical system (FLIR) is based on an enhanced version of the AH-64 Apache FLIR and the Apache FLIR does have an autotracking function! So if the Apache FLIR has autotracking so does have the ADATS.

Besides and since the ADATS uses FLIR (termal imaging) to track targets this makes the ADATS effective at night and adverse weather conditions, situations that will hamper systems that are relying solely on TV systems.



Originally Posted By: ePap
15 tons on M113 carrier can hardly move even in plain ground?


Again very hard to believe! The Canadians sent M113s to Afghanistan (albeit no ADATS version of course) because and since the M113 are tracked they had much better off-road mobility than wheeled vehicles (such as the LAVIII). So and sorry but saying that the M113 "can hardly move even in plain ground" is very, very far off from reality!


Regarding the demand that the ADATS exported to Greece could never be transferred to Cyprus (and a few more details regarding the ADATS and it's potential export to Greece), here you are:

http://ploughshares.ca/pl_publications/s...ered-to-greece/
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/23/13 04:13 PM

Originally Posted By: ricnunes
Originally Posted By: ePap
Do you know that you have to follow the target manually (no auto tracking)...


Sorry but I find that VERY HARD to believe since the ADATS electro-optical system (FLIR) is based on an enhanced version of the AH-64 Apache FLIR and the Apache FLIR does have an autotracking function! So if the Apache FLIR has autotracking so does have the ADATS.

Besides and since the ADATS uses FLIR (termal imaging) to track targets this makes the ADATS effective at night and adverse weather conditions, situations that will hamper systems that are relying solely on TV systems.



Originally Posted By: ePap
15 tons on M113 carrier can hardly move even in plain ground?


Again very hard to believe! The Canadians sent M113s to Afghanistan (albeit no ADATS version of course) because and since the M113 are tracked they had much better off-road mobility than wheeled vehicles (such as the LAVIII). So and sorry but saying that the M113 "can hardly move even in plain ground" is very, very far off from reality!


Regarding the demand that the ADATS exported to Greece could never be transferred to Cyprus (and a few more details regarding the ADATS and it's potential export to Greece), here you are:

http://ploughshares.ca/pl_publications/s...ered-to-greece/


Answers line by line.

1. FLIR of AH-64 first generation thermal imager is capable to autotrack ground targets but not high speed airplanes .Please do believe it or ask hello pilots.

2. You mast be joking saying that you can use ADATS in adverse visibility and weather conditions.
FLIR , laser (beam rider) and rear infrared indicator of missile are heavily affected by the above conditions ,what's why serious Shorad systems (Russian,Frence,German,swidish)include tracking radars as primary tracking systems.

3. I know nothing about ADATS send in Afganistan.For sure I know the capabilities of mighty Taliban Air Forces and how dengerous are they,but I am ready to accept it if you prove it somehow.

4. If the M113a2 is ok why they want to upgrade the system carrier with LAV III?They have so much money to spent?
When the US Army tested (and not accepted finally) it, they installed it in Brandleys.

5. Greece was offered ADATs as a used system by Canada and so there was a LITTLE concern about the end user certificate.
a. ADATS were manufactured by Oerlicon Zurich Switzerland.
b. Cyprus Army bought and use Skygard and aspide SAM from Oerlicon Zurich Switzerland.
c. Greece was negotiating for new brand ADATS systems much more capable but not existing (only in papers) and because of the late deliveries (after 6years!!!)
an intermideate solution with 12 used ADATS was offered.

6. Greek army is present (under the law of UN) in Syprus and use all NATO systems for his own protection and so ADATS was not a problem. We do not intend to transfer the ownership to Cyprus Army.

7. Any questions regarding OSA-AKM ? smile2
Posted By: piston79

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/23/13 08:01 PM

Not the same "OSA", but still:






Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/23/13 09:38 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Not the same "OSA", but still:


Video 1
Some data coming from this video.
Terrible video adjustment in PPI scope.Normal video not MTI.
Fire one missile at 7 km,checked K1,K2 commands and no kill of the target !

Video 2
Introduction of completely new fire computer in place of the old(but fast and perfect) fire solution system based in operational amplifiers!

Video 3
Nice and smooth barrel role missile flight path ,obviously because of the new fire computer and which extend the max range of the system to 12 km with out touching the missile !
Posted By: Mdore

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/24/13 06:10 AM

Quote:
Terrible video adjustment in PPI scope.Normal video not MTI.


Terrible in what way?
Posted By: farokh

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/25/13 08:43 AM

epap@

would u introduce OSA missiles information to us ?

boosters
G force
min speed / max speed
power of Maneuver
model of proximity fuse
and missile accuracy

Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/25/13 11:20 AM

Originally Posted By: Mdore
Quote:
Terrible video adjustment in PPI scope.Normal video not MTI.


Terrible in what way?


Very bad adjustment of normal video in PPI. Full of noise/clutters especially in close range.
I wonder why they do not use MTI. Times better .
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/25/13 11:24 AM

Originally Posted By: farokh
epap@

would u introduce OSA missiles information to us ?

boosters
G force
min speed / max speed
power of Maneuver
model of proximity fuse
and missile accuracy



You mean for use in Sam sim I imagine.
These data are known in pertinent Sam sim people. winkngrin
Posted By: farokh

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/25/13 06:27 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: farokh
epap@

would u introduce OSA missiles information to us ?

boosters
G force
min speed / max speed
power of Maneuver
model of proximity fuse
and missile accuracy



You mean for use in Sam sim I imagine.
These data are known in pertinent Sam sim people. winkngrin


yes of course yep
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/29/13 09:04 AM

What is the single indicator screen in the background?

Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/29/13 03:55 PM

Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
What is the single indicator screen in the background?



This is simulator trainer.
Two crews,one in this simulator and one real combat vehicle is connected ,are trained simultaneously.
The PPI alone and the racks are the trainer's panels.
Very useful piece especially in ECCM procedures (jamming environment ).
But the most important characteristic of this is that you can change the behavior of the targets (two maximum) during the run of scenarios, like to be in multiplayer game .
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/29/13 05:40 PM

ePap: thanks thumbsup
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/29/13 06:54 PM

Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
ePap: thanks thumbsup


My pleasure.

I forgot to mention that the above sim is the old version (carat is a mock up not fanctional ).
In the new one the carat(tv) is fanctional but the target is represented as a spite ,fair enough for training.
In my country we use both.



Posted By: Mdore

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 05/30/13 08:08 AM

Belarusian upgrades to the SA-8


Posted By: Hpasp

OSA work in progress screenshot... - 06/02/13 10:43 AM

A hill called Naszály, North of Budapest.

Note the ground clutter on the IKO (left circular) display.

Posted By: Mdore

Re: OSA work in progress screenshot... - 06/02/13 10:46 AM

Yay! Progress biggrin
I'm really looking forwards to this update!

A couple of pages ago, ePap mentioned normal video vs MTI. Will we be getting these modes for the IKO?
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshot... - 06/02/13 12:20 PM

Originally Posted By: Mdore
Yay! Progress biggrin
I'm really looking forwards to this update!

A couple of pages ago, ePap mentioned normal video vs MTI. Will we be getting these modes for the IKO?


I think this is going to be easy as soon as you have the normal video ( hiss and clutters ) ,reduce it 80% and you got the MTI video smile2
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshot... - 06/02/13 03:37 PM

What is is number 589 at 2700mils ?

Cursor position ?
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: OSA work in progress screenshot... - 06/02/13 04:43 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
What is is number 589 at 2700mils ?

Cursor position ?


Those numbers will be excluded from the final version, they are just helping development.
589 is the number of the ground reflections.
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: OSA work in progress screenshot... - 06/03/13 07:47 AM

Great progress!!!! thumbsup
Posted By: farokh

Re: OSA work in progress screenshot... - 06/05/13 12:06 PM

question from HPASP

how u can show to us missile flight path on KARAT?
do u have any idea ?

as we know each missile has different flight parameters !
so we need random flight path right ? as realistic to switch
biggrin
PS: we love to see missiles trajectory on TV
do u have any idea hpasp?
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: OSA work in progress screenshot... - 06/05/13 12:26 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
question from HPASP

how u can show to us missile flight path on KARAT?
do u have any idea ?

as we know each missile has different flight parameters !
so we need random flight path right ? as realistic to switch
biggrin
PS: we love to see missiles trajectory on TV
do u have any idea hpasp?


Missile smoke trails (6) will show actual missile path, till the missile engine is working.
After that, the missile will not be visible, as in reality.
Posted By: farokh

Re: OSA work in progress screenshot... - 06/05/13 02:26 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: farokh
question from HPASP

how u can show to us missile flight path on KARAT?
do u have any idea ?

as we know each missile has different flight parameters !
so we need random flight path right ? as realistic to switch
biggrin
PS: we love to see missiles trajectory on TV
do u have any idea hpasp?


Missile smoke trails (6) will show actual missile path, till the missile engine is working.
After that, the missile will not be visible, as in reality.


your meant was ... we cant see any missile shape on karrat ? even at impact point ? sigh
we will see only target on karrat and after pass second target will booooom ?
like when one maverick missile fire from fighter ? ONE TV LOCK ON TARGET AND WE CANT SEE ANY SIGN FROM MISSILE RIGHT? confused

do u have any screen shot from this one ?
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: OSA work in progress screenshot... - 06/05/13 03:42 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: farokh
question from HPASP

how u can show to us missile flight path on KARAT?
do u have any idea ?

as we know each missile has different flight parameters !
so we need random flight path right ? as realistic to switch
biggrin
PS: we love to see missiles trajectory on TV
do u have any idea hpasp?


Missile smoke trails (6) will show actual missile path, till the missile engine is working.
After that, the missile will not be visible, as in reality.


your meant was ... we cant see any missile shape on karrat ? even at impact point ? sigh
we will see only target on karrat and after pass second target will booooom ?
like when one maverick missile fire from fighter ? ONE TV LOCK ON TARGET AND WE CANT SEE ANY SIGN FROM MISSILE RIGHT? confused

do u have any screen shot from this one ?


Im not committed releasing Karat yet, its just an experiment.
If it will be realistic enough for myself, than you will see...

Posted By: max2012

Re: OSA work in progress screenshot... - 06/06/13 10:55 AM


The video is great!

Thank you Hpasp
Posted By: crotalito

Re: OSA work in progress screenshot... - 06/09/13 12:30 AM

Hi Hpasp
I sent you my comments on the first iteration and I discover only your forum
I'll follow that with attention. yep
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: OSA work in progress screenshot... - 06/09/13 07:04 AM

Thanks, and Welcome!
thumbsup
Posted By: Hpasp

OSA work in progress screenshot... - 06/11/13 06:49 PM

Range Indicator gets alive...

Posted By: crotalito

Re: OSA work in progress screenshot... - 06/11/13 09:54 PM

It becomes more and more realistic. smash
Posted By: milo11

Re: OSA work in progress screenshot... - 06/12/13 11:49 AM

wtg! thumbsup
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshot... - 06/14/13 08:01 AM

Why the Range dial indicator is big and you can clearly see it in low/ dark light environment while no other dial indicators are present ,for direct use I mean.
Posted By: crotalito

Re: OSA work in progress screenshot... - 06/14/13 09:06 PM

I don't find it so big as that!!!

In knowledge which the range operator was also in charge of watching the PPI scope (SOC)
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshot... - 06/15/13 07:07 AM

Originally Posted By: crotalito
I don't find it so big as that!!!

In knowledge which the range operator was also in charge of watching the PPI scope (SOC)


The range of the target is constantly guarded aytomatikaly by the system for the attention/ in range evaluation.So no needed the operator to be involved.
Also from Range indicator you have a good knowledge of the target range.

Two other reasons exist ( according to the manufacturer approach ) which are ...

1. You can watch closely the attitude of the target ( increase/decrease of speed , change of heading ,..) and inform the other operators accordingly .
2. When you fire at stationery or very low fling (hovering) hellos in the zoom climb mode (fi) you insert manually the precise range needed.
Posted By: Hpasp

OSA work in progress screenshots... - 06/15/13 06:55 PM

Target tracking...



Posted By: crotalito

Re: OSA work in progress screenshot... - 06/15/13 06:58 PM

You are right but the target's track can also be to make in semiautomatic mode, or in manual mode.
So I think that the range operator must be involved,
in particular against the jamming, Chaff deployment, terrain masking, gate's thief...
Posted By: crotalito

Re: OSA work in progress screenshot... - 06/15/13 07:11 PM

Good job Hpasp!!!
I look forward to trying it winkngrin
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshot... - 06/15/13 07:13 PM

Originally Posted By: crotalito
You are right but the target's track can also be to make in semiautomatic mode, or in manual mode.
So I think that the range operator must be involved,
in particular against the jamming, Chaff deployment, terrain masking, gate's thief...


My friend I agree for what you are writing but read carefully what I wrote about the involvement of the range operator .
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshot... - 06/15/13 07:14 PM

Hpasp
Thank you so much.
Posted By: crotalito

Re: OSA work in progress screenshot... - 06/15/13 07:31 PM

Sorry ePap, I badly have to translate your text or I badly understood it.
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshot... - 06/15/13 07:40 PM

Originally Posted By: crotalito
Sorry ePap, I badly have to translate your text or I badly understood it.


That's ok my friend.no problem at all.
For what you wrote, range operator is envolved but range indicator scope is his prime concern.
For what I wrote, range operator involves and have extra concern of the range dial indicator.

Regards smile2
Posted By: crotalito

Re: OSA work in progress screenshot... - 06/15/13 10:20 PM

Thus I had understood well your text but I badly expressed myself.

I don't think that the range operator is extra concerned by the range dial indicator.
Because the range information can be seen by the azimuth operator on its scope PPI, and for the elevation operator by her "attention or warning" lamp (target has 15 seconds of the domain of shooting).
The range information is certainly important but not capital.
I don't exclude the communication between the operators, which is very important of course.

Regards smile2
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshot... - 06/16/13 06:40 AM

Originally Posted By: crotalito
Thus I had understood well your text but I badly expressed myself.

I don't think that the range operator is extra concerned by the range dial indicator.
Because the range information can be seen by the azimuth operator on its scope PPI, and for the elevation operator by her "attention or warning" lamp (target has 15 seconds of the domain of shooting).
The range information is certainly important but not capital.
I don't exclude the communication between the operators, which is very important of course.

Regards smile2


I think that some how we missed the subject. The subject is " why the range DIAL indicator exists " and so why is useful to the operator.
The key word of my answer is " attitude " which means that you can easily understand what is the fling behavior of the target and also the insert of manual range in
certain conditions.
In PPI scope you can not understand the small changes in range .Very soon you will see it by your own in the Samsim, I have seen it in real too many times.

Regards smile2
Posted By: Mdore

Re: OSA work in progress screenshot... - 06/16/13 07:09 AM

Is there any chance of you adding helicopters to SAM Sim? Ones that can hover and do pop-up attacks.

It seems they might be a good match to an SA-8 and ZSU-23-4 mission.
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: OSA work in progress screenshot... - 06/16/13 01:40 PM

I think that some how we missed the subject. The subject is " why the range DIAL indicator exists " and so why is useful to the operator.
The key word of my answer is " attitude " which means that you can easily understand what is the fling behavior of the target and also the insert of manual range in
certain conditions.


In Hungary during target practice, the Range Operator had to read out loud the target range (each km).

Is there any chance of you adding helicopters to SAM Sim? Ones that can hover and do pop-up attacks.

Helos are on the cards for Ashuluk.
(Sitting on the ground, with rotating blades.)

So far it was a common knowledge that the S-300PS (SA-10B) can auto-lock on incoming HARM missiles,
but did you know, that the OSA is (beside auto selecting&preparing missiles) capable of auto-locking targets?
yep
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshot... - 06/16/13 02:38 PM

@Hpasp
So far it was a common knowledge that the S-300PS (SA-10B) can auto-lock on incoming HARM missiles,
but did you know, that the OSA is (beside auto selecting&preparing missiles) capable of auto-locking targets?


You have to be very brave and to have a lot of patience in order to wait for an OSA akm auto lock ... winkngrin

In OSA akm simulator there is procedure that creates a Harm firing scenario from platform airplane, in order to act accordingly ,which is
a. stop any emmition and change position or
b. engage the missile

I would suggest definitely the a. smile2
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: OSA work in progress screenshot... - 06/16/13 03:11 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
@Hpasp
So far it was a common knowledge that the S-300PS (SA-10B) can auto-lock on incoming HARM missiles,
but did you know, that the OSA is (beside auto selecting&preparing missiles) capable of auto-locking targets?


You have to be very brave and to have a lot of patience in order to wait for an OSA akm auto lock ... winkngrin

In OSA akm simulator there is procedure that creates a Harm firing scenario from platform airplane, in order to act accordingly ,which is
a. stop any emmition and change position or
b. engage the missile

I would suggest definitely the a. smile2


It is always, and always will be the limitation of SAM SIMULATOR "Realistic to the Switch", that we are doing a 3~5 crews work, one handed (having one mouse vs two arms).
Posted By: farokh

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 06/16/13 03:59 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Target tracking...






hmm... it seems that evrything is ready for releasing biggrin
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 06/16/13 04:08 PM

Christmas time !!! thumbsup
Posted By: farokh

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 06/16/13 04:29 PM

exactly who can forbearance for next six month
EPAP AND HPASP ! do not suffer us ! please blush
just finish it in summer !
OR
finish it normal version soon than KARAT version ! please !

we cant wait ! who can wait ? dizzy
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 06/16/13 04:30 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Target tracking...
Click to reveal..






hmm... it seems that evrything is ready for releasing biggrin


To crash some unrealistic expectations... banghead

Actually pretty far from that...
... releasing OSA-AK (SA-8B) during Christmas would be a surprise for me.

Creating a SIMULATION "Realistic to the Switch" takes time...
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 06/16/13 04:47 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
Christmas time !!! thumbsup



It is time for presents Hpasp ...

Come on gays, put some humor smile2
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 06/16/13 06:23 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: ePap
Christmas time !!! thumbsup



It is time for presents Hpasp ...

Come on gays, put some humor smile2


Some Russian real one...


The first phase of modernization "Osa" was planned for 1974.


VP Efremov, recalled: "DF Ustinov visited Izhevsk electromechanical plant, which was carried out mass production of complex military machine "Osa."


After hearing my report, DF Ustinov set the task: "Veniamin Pavlovich, you put on a fighting machine four missiles.
Necessary to increase the ammunition twice! "
My objection is impossible to place, lack of weight and dimensions based on the car were severely rejected:
"This is your concern, then report on the execution!"

As a result of further work placement eight missiles on combat vehicle demonstrated the possibility of placing six missiles in transport-launch containers.
I called DF Ustinov and said:
"We have worked with PD Grushin your instructions about the possibility of eight missiles on combat vehicles, eight did not work, but well-placed six rockets. "
Dmitri thought for a moment and said: "As in the Russian proverb: a black sheep though tuft of wool."





Hahahaha...
darkcloud

ps: the successor of OSA, the TOR was designed with 8 missiles on board, as was originally requested by DF Ustinov...
Posted By: max2012

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 06/16/13 07:58 PM


Hi hpasp!

As I understood the new release is scheduled for the end of this year?

Will the intermediate releases of correcting mistakes or not?

Error in Volkhov report low targets
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 06/16/13 08:51 PM

Originally Posted By: max2012

Hi hpasp!

As I understood the new release is scheduled for the end of this year?

Will the intermediate releases of correcting mistakes or not?

Error in Volkhov report low targets


Hi Max, please keep track of the bugs, and after releasing Osa, I will create a bugfix release, hopefully correcting all these issues...
Posted By: farokh

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 06/18/13 06:52 PM

hpasp... would u introduce OSA missile to us correctly ????

i love to know more information about this missile !
Posted By: piston79

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 06/18/13 07:41 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
i love to know more information about this missile !


WOW! You're already familiar with other systems missiles?

I am impressed!!!! biggrin
Posted By: farokh

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 06/18/13 09:03 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: farokh
i love to know more information about this missile !


WOW! You're already familiar with other systems missiles?

I am impressed!!!! biggrin


yes ! i know missiles systems but only The extent of in sam simulator! not more than this software !
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 06/19/13 08:32 AM

Originally Posted By: farokh
hpasp... would u introduce OSA missile to us correctly ????

i love to know more information about this missile !


http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/ebooks/Osa(1991).djvu
page 177..187


Detailed cutaway photos...







Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 06/19/13 08:44 AM

Does the aft fins move some how ?
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 06/19/13 08:54 AM

Originally Posted By: ePap
Does the aft fins move some how ?


Fins are opening after leaving the container, than depending on the missile speed they ...
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 06/19/13 09:05 AM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: ePap
Does the aft fins move some how ?


Fins are opening after leaving the container, than depending on the missile speed they ...


Missile speed ??? Are you sure?
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 06/19/13 09:21 AM

Air pressure on the wings (I do not find the correct English word) makes free spinning around the missile body.
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 06/19/13 09:47 AM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Air pressure on the wings (I do not find the correct English word) makes free spinning around the missile body.


Actually the opposite happens.
The aft fin section rolls in ball bearings to the missile body.
K1 and K2 steers the front canards which introduce a spin to the missile body. The aft lolling fins remain steady because of the drag .
This happens in order to minimize the rolling diameter of missile flight path.
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 06/19/13 10:59 AM

Hehe, correct.
I only seen OSA missile on the ground, not during flight.
biggrin
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/19/13 11:21 AM

eFarokh
I hope you keep notes for the future lessons about OSA operation. smile2
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/19/13 01:11 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/ebooks/Osa(1991).djvu


dear hpasp! what is this link ???? i download it but its not kind of PDF files! how can i open it ?

Originally Posted By: ePap
eFarokh
I hope you keep notes for the future lessons about OSA operation. smile2

i always check samsim froums minute by minute.... eyes ON !
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/19/13 01:18 PM

A book about OSA-AKM.

http://djvu.sourceforge.net/
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/19/13 02:00 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh

i always check samsim froums minute by minute.... eyes ON !


Do not forget to switch ON your brain too.... hahaha
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/19/13 02:18 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79

Do not forget to switch ON your brain too.... hahaha


really ? thumbsup
do you have any problem with me sweet boy ? grrr
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/19/13 02:37 PM

The weather is quite hot in Hungary (36C) so please cool down here!
cuss2
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/19/13 04:40 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
The weather is quite hot in Hungary (36C) so please cool down here!
cuss2


I'm cool and just kidding...
Posted By: max2012

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/20/13 09:49 AM


Hpasp!

Joy to go to the street rest and swim.

Take a rest from working out, and then you're the only one doing this and SAM.
Posted By: apelles

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/20/13 01:23 PM

I won't go to the street, only if my house is burning. It's f****** hot out there.
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/20/13 02:10 PM

You must be joking gays about how hot is in your countries!
Come in Athens with 40C and you will see what hot means.
Of course we can escape from this easily in a nearby sea coast ... smile2
Posted By: jazjar

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/20/13 03:52 PM

Es tut mir Leid, aber ich spreche keine Russisch... I'm sorry, but I don't speak any Russian. All the manuals are lost on me frown
Posted By: apelles

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/20/13 08:10 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
You must be joking gays about how hot is in your countries!
Come in Athens with 40C and you will see what hot means.
Of course we can escape from this easily in a nearby sea coast ... smile2



For me, anything warmer than 25 Celsius is like hell.

The only place where i feel 40 C is in my workplace, near the laser cutting machines. I not like it. Not one bit.
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/20/13 08:23 PM

eApelles

Are you some how connected to ancient Spartans?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apella smile2
Posted By: jazjar

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/21/13 01:18 AM

LOL you should be special forces, not SAM fan if you are connected to Spartans smile
Posted By: apelles

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/21/13 05:50 AM

Originally Posted By: ePap
eApelles

Are you some how connected to ancient Spartans?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apella smile2



Almost: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apelles

When i was child, i read a book about historical greek people. From Apelles, the book has some cool stories.
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/21/13 08:23 AM

Originally Posted By: apelles
Originally Posted By: ePap
eApelles

Are you some how connected to ancient Spartans?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apella smile2



Almost: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apelles

When i was child, i read a book about historical greek people. From Apelles, the book has some cool stories.


Apella stands for Spartans (political structure of society )
Appeles stands for artist approach !

Glad to hear that.
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/21/13 09:58 AM

Originally Posted By: jazjar
LOL you should be special forces, not SAM fan if you are connected to Spartans smile


Or artists... winkngrin
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/21/13 12:58 PM

push the #%&*$# pusk button biches .......skyisfalling
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/21/13 03:53 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
push the #%&*$# pusk button biches .......skyisfalling




efarokh
What is that at the stern of her ?
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/21/13 05:24 PM

because im in love with her
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/21/13 06:40 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
because im in love with her


Ok,i can see that she is hot but I ask you what is behind the engine... smash
NAUGHTY boy...

PS: it is called "she" because it belongs to vessels/ship and so we treat her as a lady!
http://www.photographers1.com/Sailing/ShipboardDirections.gif
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/21/13 07:21 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: farokh
because im in love with her


Ok,i can see that she is hot but I ask you what is behind the engine... smash


i dont know ! im not see any sa-8 with my eyes from close range !
you should know it ....
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/21/13 07:52 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: farokh
because im in love with her


Ok,i can see that she is hot but I ask you what is behind the engine... smash


i dont know ! im not see any sa-8 with my eyes from close range !
you should know it ....


Ordinary OSA do not have this thing.
Could be auxiliary power unit or
air condition unit or something else.

Does anybody have seen this before ?
Posted By: jazjar

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/21/13 08:39 PM

Ugliest lady I ever saw... Air conditioning maybe, or Auxiliary power, one of those two most likely.
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/23/13 10:16 AM




new generation of osa ?
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/23/13 11:09 AM

Originally Posted By: farokh



new generation of osa ?


No.New generation of operators/technicians probably ... biggrin

PS: how can be sure that this is an OSA missile?I have seen tomahawk to flie like this...
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/23/13 11:26 AM

Naval version of the "OSA":

http://videodisc.tv/video/6116476/bfjaefded/

http://videodisc.tv/video/49715788/bejhhcice/

http://pvo.guns.ru/naval/osa_m.htm
(using old 9M33 missile)

A bit newer version:

http://www.granit-electron.ru/products/mil/complex/osa/index.shtml
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/23/13 02:23 PM

OSA akm is much newer version than OSA m.
OSA m are used in see environment and besides the search-acquisition radar the other radars and missiles are not stabilized .
OSA akm was forbidden to fire on the move or even to track a target.
Besides a possible balance issue can you see any other ?
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/23/13 02:37 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
OSA akm is much newer version than OSA m.


Basic OSA - naval version OSA-M
OSA-AK - naval version is OSA-MA
OSA-AKM - not sure that NAVY has equivalent [/quote]

Originally Posted By: ePap
OSA akm was forbidden to fire on the move or even to track a target.
Besides a possible balance issue can you see any other ?


All I know is that missile is leaving the launcher too slow to compensate shaking by the off-road driving and could go to undesired direction... Is it possible to "miss" antena's beam and not received guidance command??? What is your opinion as a practitioner?
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/23/13 03:02 PM

Missiles are leaving launcher relative slow in order to easily/smoothly driven to wide-medium-narrow and finally radar tracking beam.
In my opinion and because of the wide angels at least of wide beam antennas of MSR and because of the reference/stabilized system ,it can easily track and fire on road move.
I have doubts for rough terrain .
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/23/13 06:21 PM

In July 1968, the Commission has suspended further testing of the failing OSA system.


The Commission lists all identified weaknesses:
- Layout war machine ... does not provide a circular firing in a given zone of destruction, given the effectiveness of shooting at low-flying targets and fire at the target zone by two series of rockets launched;
- Do not provide the required lower limit of the affected area of 50-100 m and the efficiency of fire due to the large pointing errors;
- Not be guaranteed because of the burning rocket nozzle of the engine block, which leads to additional errors guidance;
- The complex has a large dead time, which limits its ability to engage suddenly appearing targets;
- In connection with a significant overload of combat vehicle can not be conformed to reserve, walking speed and buoyancy of the complex.

During testing, one example sinked in the Black Sea...


And yet, despite the fact that by the time the work on the complex Mauler (US equivalent system) stopped (and it gave a good reason for making similar decisions), the creators of "Osa" was still determined to bring this work to completion. As a result, they had released two more years. The Council of Ministers of the USSR, the new deadline to "Osa" on state tests was set II quarter of 1970.

Soon, the NII-20 (NIEMI) held a meeting on the question of principle with GRAU Chief Marshal of Artillery PN Kuleshov.

After explaining the situation, the VP Efremov proposed to delete the requirement of shooting on the run from TTP to develop "Osa", replacing it with a short stop shooting.

However, he suggested to keep the ability to detect targets in motion, on the march, and enter into a fighting machine second channel auto-tracking missiles, providing salvo firing at a target. After a heated discussion of the proposals, despite the protests were on the meeting as representatives of Grau, PN Kuleshov agreed to changes in the technical order.
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/24/13 08:16 AM

So I assume differences in prencipals, in naval version and land OSA versions ?

Any ideas?
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/24/13 05:24 PM

Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/24/13 06:21 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
So I assume differences in prencipals, in naval version and land OSA versions ?


All I know is that they are 100% equal in missile (9M33) and 70% in transmitting device...:
http://www.snariad.ru/navy-pvo/osa-m/
http://www.warships.ru/Russia/Weapons/ZRK/OSA/





It looks like it has only one SVR (Missile Tracking Radar - Narrow Beam)... Is that means that it could guide only one missile at a target?...

Here some "first hand" commentary:

Quote:
It's work logic scheme, in my opinion, has not big difference, but the layout and AVS! LAnd variant of the Complex is far better ! When in 2005 me and Igor Nedviginym (former battalion commander with the TFR, and then the officer Urawa PF) in my school looked at OSA (I was on the 25th anniversary of the release, and Igor's son did), he was amazed at how wonderfully done and closed AVS (antenna power cable system). And we have the version with open cables, rotting from the sea water! And Clumsy wide beam antena.
Hitting planes was not something challenging for OSA. In the army, improving the system followed the path of struggle with helicopters, and we have become aware that main target for our OSA are anti-ship missiles, and here http://svzriu.ru/teh.php?type=osa clearly traces the history of the modification of the complex. When I went to the Navy after college I saw that OSA-MA, the almost complete analog of OSA-AK. Layout and antennas are not counted. Here are just a different PSA(analog computer) and stability system - on land airframe (gyros and vertical gyroscopes). A rocket is the same, except that the wings fold up and stuff in TPK.

....Because cipher and has 9M33M2. But this universality of all evils. How not to upgrade your PSA, and if the rocket is not designed to destroy aircraft (aircraft), but only for his defeat, the result respectively. Aspen missiles with high-explosive effect within 5m, and that we are on the TTC - complex provides guidance to within 15m. That is, the destruction of the aircraft is not guaranteed. And we have to deal with anti-ship missiles flying at a low altitude, the discovery of which, and its fire can be the minimum distance at which the affected but not destroyed (not destroyed) Anti-Ship Missile can fly into the board. I do not know if my idea is clear, but it is that in the Navy as opposed to the land we have to deal with the ship and anti-ship missiles, and the ship is easier to be hit. And in the performance of practical shooting, and even if such violations that were at the last shooting "Monsoon" further increases this risk. I believe that the versatility of this missile has also become one of the factors that led to the death of the "Monsoon".
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/24/13 06:30 PM

http://readtiger.com/wkp/en/9K33_Osa
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/24/13 07:27 PM

piston79.

Thanks for all these nice feedbacks. smile2
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/26/13 08:49 AM

To developer:

Will "Karat" became blind/broken when targeting the sun?
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/26/13 06:27 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh

new generation of osa ?

EPAP@
this picture for osa missile ?"
this missile is very smooth ! so why fly it like drunk man on sky ?

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: ePap
So I assume differences in prencipals, in naval version and land OSA versions ?


All I know is that they are 100% equal in missile (9M33) and 70% in transmitting device...:
http://www.snariad.ru/navy-pvo/osa-m/
http://www.warships.ru/Russia/Weapons/ZRK/OSA/





It looks like it has only one SVR (Missile Tracking Radar - Narrow Beam)... Is that means that it could guide only one missile at a target?...

Here some "first hand" commentary:

Quote:
It's work logic scheme, in my opinion, has not big difference, but the layout and AVS! LAnd variant of the Complex is far better ! When in 2005 me and Igor Nedviginym (former battalion commander with the TFR, and then the officer Urawa PF) in my school looked at OSA (I was on the 25th anniversary of the release, and Igor's son did), he was amazed at how wonderfully done and closed AVS (antenna power cable system). And we have the version with open cables, rotting from the sea water! And Clumsy wide beam antena.
Hitting planes was not something challenging for OSA. In the army, improving the system followed the path of struggle with helicopters, and we have become aware that main target for our OSA are anti-ship missiles, and here http://svzriu.ru/teh.php?type=osa clearly traces the history of the modification of the complex. When I went to the Navy after college I saw that OSA-MA, the almost complete analog of OSA-AK. Layout and antennas are not counted. Here are just a different PSA(analog computer) and stability system - on land airframe (gyros and vertical gyroscopes). A rocket is the same, except that the wings fold up and stuff in TPK.

....Because cipher and has 9M33M2. But this universality of all evils. How not to upgrade your PSA, and if the rocket is not designed to destroy aircraft (aircraft), but only for his defeat, the result respectively. Aspen missiles with high-explosive effect within 5m, and that we are on the TTC - complex provides guidance to within 15m. That is, the destruction of the aircraft is not guaranteed. And we have to deal with anti-ship missiles flying at a low altitude, the discovery of which, and its fire can be the minimum distance at which the affected but not destroyed (not destroyed) Anti-Ship Missile can fly into the board. I do not know if my idea is clear, but it is that in the Navy as opposed to the land we have to deal with the ship and anti-ship missiles, and the ship is easier to be hit. And in the performance of practical shooting, and even if such violations that were at the last shooting "Monsoon" further increases this risk. I believe that the versatility of this missile has also become one of the factors that led to the death of the "Monsoon".


piston you dud a great job on my greate begginner subject thumbsup
Posted By: crotalito

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/26/13 10:10 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
To developer:

Will "Karat" became blind/broken when targeting the sun?


The karat becomes blind when targeting the sun but the video camera has got some filters (x3) to avoid this problem type.
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/27/13 07:52 AM

Originally Posted By: piston79
To developer:

Will "Karat" became blind/broken when targeting the sun?


Not decided yet...
... probably not.

Still Karat is seen as an experiment, not sure if it will be in the final release...
(depends if it will be smooth enough in my Intel-i7 8 core 2.8Ghz CPU)
... anyway, if you do not switch it on, than the code will be faster.
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/27/13 08:26 AM

Hello Hpasp, is SAMSIM able to use more than one CPU core or is it a single threaded application? I do not know if multithreading is even possible in VB (I program only in Delphi and C).
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/27/13 07:29 PM

Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
Hello Hpasp, is SAMSIM able to use more than one CPU core or is it a single threaded application? I do not know if multithreading is even possible in VB (I program only in Delphi and C).


The main SAMSIM VB code is using one processor only (for logic, and math) but for displaying, I extensively use 2d graphic API of Windows. That use all available system resources.
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/28/13 03:00 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: piston79
To developer:

Will "Karat" became blind/broken when targeting the sun?


Not decided yet...
... probably not.

Still Karat is seen as an experiment, not sure if it will be in the final release...
(depends if it will be smooth enough in my Intel-i7 8 core 2.8Ghz CPU)
... anyway, if you do not switch it on, than the code will be faster.


i am full agree with hpasp decision !
Karat item could be an experiment for systems

im not sure that we should wait more than 9 months just for karat item !
hpasp could create karat for samsim as a expansion patch at future !

i guess it is good idea right hpasp ?
if u agree that karat could an expantion patch ,
so you can keep working on samsim without stress and without wasing time for karat thumbsup

without karat , samsim stand on top of other simulators head ! like a boss cool
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/28/13 03:59 PM

As a compromise to the above, I would propose night only operations... smile2
Posted By: Mdore

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/28/13 04:06 PM

Guys, once we have Karat for the SA-8, it could probably be very easily ported to the SA-2E, SA-2F, SA-4 and ZSU-23-4. All of these have either a TV or telescope system.

It's not a tiny thing restricted to just the SA-8, It could revolutionise the entire simulator!
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/28/13 04:35 PM

Originally Posted By: Mdore
Guys, once we have Karat for the SA-8, it could probably be very easily ported to the SA-2E, SA-2F, SA-4 and ZSU-23-4. All of these have either a TV or telescope system.

It's not a tiny thing restricted to just the SA-8, It could revolutionise the entire simulator!


For SHORAD TV/IR camera is a must.
For medium and long range systems is not an essential feature .
What ever Hpasp will decide it will well accepted. smile2
Posted By: Mdore

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/28/13 04:59 PM

Not essential, but it would be nice.

It could also make the SA-9 possible.
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/28/13 05:24 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: Mdore
Guys, once we have Karat for the SA-8, it could probably be very easily ported to the SA-2E, SA-2F, SA-4 and ZSU-23-4. All of these have either a TV or telescope system.

It's not a tiny thing restricted to just the SA-8, It could revolutionise the entire simulator!


For SHORAD TV/IR camera is a must.
For medium and long range systems is not an essential feature .
What ever Hpasp will decide it will well accepted. smile2


During Desert Storm, the most effective SAM system was the S-75M Volhov (SA-2E).
They used Karat, and launched only at close range.
Pretty effective tactics against jamming and HARMs...
biggrin
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/28/13 05:39 PM

Originally Posted By: Mdore
Guys, once we have Karat for the SA-8, it could probably be very easily ported to the SA-2E, SA-2F, SA-4 and ZSU-23-4. All of these have either a TV or telescope system.

It's not a tiny thing restricted to just the SA-8, It could revolutionise the entire simulator!

mdore@
i dont said no karat ! i just said , we can have it after release normal sa-8 !
hpasp could done karats for all systems at one expansion patch at future after sa-8 !

i guess it could be logical decision ! hum?hpasp?
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/28/13 05:57 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: Mdore
Guys, once we have Karat for the SA-8, it could probably be very easily ported to the SA-2E, SA-2F, SA-4 and ZSU-23-4. All of these have either a TV or telescope system.

It's not a tiny thing restricted to just the SA-8, It could revolutionise the entire simulator!


For SHORAD TV/IR camera is a must.
For medium and long range systems is not an essential feature .
What ever Hpasp will decide it will well accepted. smile2


During Desert Storm, the most effective SAM system was the S-75M Volhov (SA-2E).
They used Karat, and launched only at close range.
Pretty effective tactics against jamming and HARMs...
biggrin


The only system with verified target destruction was sa-8b.
18 tomahawk downed !!
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/28/13 06:42 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_com...the_Vietnam_War
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/28/13 07:07 PM



This is fair but half story.
In order the story to be full,we have to know how many missiles fired in total and if the engagements were at the capabilities of the given systems.
If you use a medium/long range system as a vshorad,me personally I can't see any reason to celebrate.it is a desperate situation for the defenders.
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/28/13 07:57 PM

Again NAVY "OSA" (nice angle):

Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/28/13 09:07 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Again NAVY "OSA" (nice angle):



Great PIX!



In 1967, after another unsuccessful shooting trial, all original designers were replaced.



The new one, VP Efremov (he designed the SA-4) proposed to delete the requirement of shooting on the run, replacing it with a short stop shooting (deleting the SSC stabilization system), and offered adding a second missile channel.

After a heated discussion of the proposal, despite the protests were on the meeting as representatives of Grau, PN Kuleshov agreed to changes in the technical order.

So while the NAVY version kept the target tracking radar stabilization, with only one missile channel, the army version could shoot only during stops, but with 2 missiles smile
Posted By: piston79

9K33 OSA-M - 06/29/13 06:46 AM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
So while the NAVY version kept the target tracking radar stabilization, with only one missile channel, the army version could shoot only during stops, but with 2 missiles smile


Thanks, man! I thought it is just like that, but didn't found an 100% evidence in materials I read... thumbsup
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33 OSA-M - 06/29/13 07:24 AM

to hpasp@

we will meet 9m33m2 missile of osa right ?
dear hpasp could u add 9m33m3 for osa too ? 9m33m2 engage alt is very very low.. what is your logical idea?

this hapened coud be done ? or not ? replace 9m33m2 with 9m33m3 could be give high engage point to user ...
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33 OSA-M - 06/29/13 07:52 AM


Originally Posted By: farokh
to hpasp@

we will meet 9m33m2 missile of osa right ?
dear hpasp could u add 9m33m3 for osa too ? 9m33m2 engage alt is very very low.. what is your logical idea?

this hapened coud be done ? or not ? replace 9m33m2 with 9m33m3 could be give high engage point to user ...


scuseme
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/29/13 08:03 AM

Originally Posted By: ePap


The only system with verified target destruction was sa-8b.
18 tomahawk downed !!


Any proves?
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33 OSA-M - 06/29/13 08:09 AM

Originally Posted By: farokh
to hpasp@

we will meet 9m33m2 missile of osa right ?
dear hpasp could u add 9m33m3 for osa too ? 9m33m2 engage alt is very very low.. what is your logical idea?

this hapened coud be done ? or not ? replace 9m33m2 with 9m33m3 could be give high engage point to user ...


There is no evidence that 9m33m3 ever exist with these kind of capabilities !
These are nonsense written over the Internet.
They confuse the different models of OSA (ak,akm) and create conspiracy theories for missiles also.
Most probably they saw the saman missile which is a modified m2/m3 missile for training activities (less speed and 15 km range).

@farokh
Keep notes,keep notes. biggrin

Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/29/13 09:48 AM

Missile 9M33M2 can be used both with the OSA-AK and the OSA-AKM system.

Target speed 300..500m/s
Altitude 100..5000m
Distance 1500..10000m

Target speed 0..300m/s
Altitude 25..5000m
Distance 1500..10300m

Missile 9M33M3 can only be used with the OSA-AKM system.

Target speed 300..500m/s
Altitude 100..5000m
Distance 1500..10000m

Target speed 0..300m/s
Altitude 25..5000m
Distance 1500..10300m

Target speed 0..100m/s
Altitude 10*..25m
Distance 2000..6500m

*(at the firing range it was actually 0m, target helo was standing on the ground, with spinning rotor)
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/29/13 10:35 AM

@Hpasp

Punctual and precise always . wave
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/29/13 01:12 PM

@Hpasp
do u know how many fragments armed inside of osa warhead ? 100 fragments ? 1000 fragments Or 1500 fragments ?
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/29/13 05:11 PM

1 +/- 1250 if I remember well...

PS: I couldn't wait more for an official answer... smile2
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/29/13 06:26 PM

Finally which is the max range of OSA missile?


It is almost 32 km!!! (ballistic trajectory-emergency fire ).
Posted By: crotalito

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/29/13 11:08 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
@Hpasp
do u know how many fragments armed inside of osa warhead ? 100 fragments ? 1000 fragments Or 1500 fragments ?


Warhead 9M33M3 missile:
weight = 15 kg with 7 kg of explosive and 1700 fragments
Posted By: Mdore

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/30/13 06:27 AM

Originally Posted By: ePap
Finally which is the max range of OSA missile?


It is almost 32 km!!! (ballistic trajectory-emergency fire ).


What's that used for? :O
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/30/13 07:59 AM

Originally Posted By: Mdore
Originally Posted By: ePap
Finally which is the max range of OSA missile?


It is almost 32 km!!! (ballistic trajectory-emergency fire ).


What's that used for? :O


In an emergency condition eg. fire when you want to get rid of the missiles .
In such a situation the launcher is denergized (everything is off).

PS: or the cv commader wants to celebrate his birthday ... smile2
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/30/13 02:57 PM

Originally Posted By: crotalito

Warhead 9M33M3 missile:
weight = 15 kg with 7 kg of explosive and 1700 fragments


Any unclassified source of that?
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/02/13 06:05 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: crotalito

Warhead 9M33M3 missile:
weight = 15 kg with 7 kg of explosive and 1700 fragments


Any unclassified source of that?


The manual mentions 14.27kg for the warhead. (on page 177)
If the explosive is ~7kg, than the fragment weight is approx ~4g.

Pretty realistic number.

1700 fragment would be deadly in 14m radius, while 1250 would be deadly within 12m...
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/02/13 07:09 PM

The blast of the warhead is a 60 deg conical shaped.
The effective range (the high of the cone) is 12m.
Also the proximity fuse ,for approaching airplane, is ~12m.

Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/02/13 07:23 PM



1580 pieces; 3.86 grams each...
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/02/13 08:05 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79


1580 pieces; 3.86 grams each...


Is that for OSA warhead ???
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/02/13 08:14 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap

Is that for OSA warhead ???


I guess so, but it is probably for 9M33 missile (OSA-M).... Unfortunately, the man, who created those drawings passed away two months ago.... sigh
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/02/13 08:27 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: ePap

Is that for OSA warhead ???


I guess so, but it is probably for 9M33 missile (OSA-M).... Unfortunately, the man, who created those drawings passed away two months ago.... sigh


I am sorry for that gay.!

Technically wise is impossible to have the proximity fuse in front only and expect to destroy a target with 15 kgr warhead with side blast !
This happen with semi active missiles ( I know about hawk) with massive warheads and side fuse antennas .
In OSA case the fuse cone and blast cone ,coincide.

Watch closely that video ,frame by frame
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruKO3ZyKC-w&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/02/13 08:42 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: ePap

Is that for OSA warhead ???


I guess so, but it is probably for 9M33 missile (OSA-M).... Unfortunately, the man, who created those drawings passed away two months ago.... sigh


I am sorry for that gay.!

Technically wise is impossible to have the proximity fuse in front only and expect to destroy a target with 15 kgr warhead with side blast !
This happen with semi active missiles ( I know about hawk) with massive warheads and side fuse antennas .
In OSA case the fuse cone and blast cone ,coincide.


This is his drawing for the radiofuse cone:



On this and previous drawing, the dotted line represents the area of the fragment dispersion in dynamic (when missile's speed added 500/m/s), on the previous - continuous line - when the missile (warhead) is static....
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/02/13 09:04 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: ePap

Is that for OSA warhead ???


I guess so, but it is probably for 9M33 missile (OSA-M).... Unfortunately, the man, who created those drawings passed away two months ago.... sigh


I am sorry for that gay.!

Technically wise is impossible to have the proximity fuse in front only and expect to destroy a target with 15 kgr warhead with side blast !
This happen with semi active missiles ( I know about hawk) with massive warheads and side fuse antennas .
In OSA case the fuse cone and blast cone ,coincide.


This is his drawing for the radiofuse cone:



On this and previous drawing, the dotted line represents the area of the fragment dispersion in dynamic (when missile's speed added 500/m/s), on the previous - continuous line - when the missile (warhead) is static....


Most probaly (i guess) he was tring to explain the gap between the moment of detonation vs the velocity of the target.
This has been solved in OSA missiles, by introducing an appropriate delay of detonation (in order the missile to come closer to the target and detonate) for helicopters and receding targets.
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/03/13 10:34 AM

Originally Posted By: ePap


Most probaly (i guess) he was tring to explain the gap between the moment of detonation vs the velocity of the target.
This has been solved in OSA missiles, by introducing an appropriate delay of detonation (in order the missile to come closer to the target and detonate) for helicopters and receding targets.


His drawings are in a relations with a tragical incident during exercises in USSR Pacific NAVY (OSA-MA failed to destroy antiship missile, which after been damaged by gunfire, suddently changes it's course and hits the shooting ship). One of the reasons for the accident is that OSA-MA was loaded with older 9M33 missiles, instead of the newer verson, that's why I think those drawings are relative for the 9M33 missile...
Note that in the last image, the blue cone of radiofuse is within dotted line of fragments dynamic area...


As per delay in detonation - it was introduced in later missiles (M/M2, probably), to counter early detonations due ground proximity (that's what I found in I-net)... screwy
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/03/13 11:18 AM

Originally Posted By: piston79
[quote=ePap]



As per delay in detonation - it was introduced in later missiles (M/M2, probably), to counter early detonations due ground proximity (that's what I found in I-net)... screwy


Nop.This is not truth.

The delay detonation is huge improvement of OSA system, for engaging helicopters and receding targets.

The ground effect possible detonation and thus the OSA missile not to go lower than 25 m was solved to OSA akm model ,introducing new trajectory of missile higher from the line sight of TTR (zoom climb mode-part of method Fi).

Hope I helped a litle... smile2
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/03/13 04:30 PM

By the way,we have spoken so much for the OSA missiles and it is the only part of the system which actually never see it in Samsim ( I mean the specific and detailed issues that we discuss). Hpasp will do the fine job and we will just push the red button (I think), or not ... winkngrin

PS: you are all invited to my promotion party, from junior I become member... hick
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/03/13 05:16 PM

Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/03/13 06:44 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79


What is this? rolleyes
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/03/13 07:00 PM

Thought it is from OSA-M, but could be wrong... sigh
Posted By: montieris

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/03/13 08:22 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Thought it is from OSA-M, but could be wrong... sigh

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_destroyer_Admiral_Vinogradov
Naval Tor? (Kinzhal)

This ship was on peacekeeping mission at Persian Gulf sept.1992 - jan.1993 and nov.1993 - mar.1994

Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/03/13 08:46 PM

Originally Posted By: montieris

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_destroyer_Admiral_Vinogradov
Naval Tunguska / Tor ? (Kashtan / Kinzhal)

this ship was on peacekeeping mission on Persian gulf till 23 may 1993


Thank you, Montieris! It looks like it must be SA-N-9 Gauntlet... thumbsup
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/03/13 09:12 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: montieris

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_destroyer_Admiral_Vinogradov
Naval Tunguska / Tor ? (Kashtan / Kinzhal)

this ship was on peacekeeping mission on Persian gulf till 23 may 1993


Thank you, Montieris! It looks like it must be SA-N-9 Gauntlet... thumbsup


I never saw a consol like this in a TOR !
Posted By: Lieste

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/04/13 01:09 AM

Kashtan? ~ this is one of those vessels also fitted with CADS-N-1... and if it isn't Kinzhal (SAN-9)...?

(The bevel looks very similar to the far left screen on the Tunguska panel FWIW)
Posted By: Hpasp

OSA work in progress video released... - 07/05/13 08:33 PM

http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home



biggrin
Posted By: farokh

Re: OSA work in progress video released... - 07/05/13 09:10 PM

sa-8 is complete ! why u dont release it !
PS: i cant seen explosive wave in this video!

hpasp please ! the system is ready ! dont waste the time !
please think about us ! we are Thirsty of new system in samsim
sicko
Posted By: Mdore

Re: OSA work in progress video released... - 07/06/13 05:22 AM

Oh, I never knew the SA-8 was made by Microsoft. Look at the lower left corner biggrin
Posted By: piston79

Re: OSA work in progress video released... - 07/06/13 07:06 AM

ePAP, what do you say? Did you checked the video??? wink
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress video released... - 07/06/13 07:07 AM

Great !!!
+ 1000. smile2
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress video released... - 07/06/13 07:19 AM

Originally Posted By: piston79
ePAP, what do you say? Did you checked the video??? wink


Yes I did !

System is working good.Carat need some attention .
Call the mechanics.this OSA akm is a little dangerous !!
Question.Why ???
Posted By: piston79

Re: OSA work in progress video released... - 07/06/13 07:21 AM

Let's compare it:







The explosion effect is missing...
Posted By: piston79

Re: OSA work in progress video released... - 07/06/13 07:24 AM

Originally Posted By: ePap

.........Carat need some attention .
Call the mechanics.this OSA akm is a little dangerous !!
Question.Why ???


A bit more specific, please... Using Karat is dangerous or maintaining it, or unproper handling is dangerous for Karat?
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress video released... - 07/06/13 07:27 AM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: ePap

.........Carat need some attention .
Call the mechanics.this OSA akm is a little dangerous !!
Question.Why ???


A bit more specific, please... Using Karat is dangerous or maintaining it, or unproper handling is dangerous for Karat?


No,not the carat.
Has to do with switches ...
Posted By: piston79

Re: OSA work in progress video released... - 07/06/13 07:33 AM

No idea... nope
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress video released... - 07/06/13 07:48 AM

Originally Posted By: piston79
No idea... nope


Switch initial position at elevation station.
Rod switch is in TP position!!! Not in red dot !
In real OSA you can't lock and fire with the switch in this position! Only with simulator connected . smile2
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress video released... - 07/06/13 07:50 AM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Let's compare it:



The explosion effect is missing...


No comparison , the upper is much better !!! biggrin
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: OSA work in progress video released... - 07/06/13 11:21 AM

Originally Posted By: piston79


The explosion effect is missing...


Not missing, just the code for the radio proxy of the missiles is still not written...
biggrin
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: OSA work in progress video released... - 07/06/13 02:22 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
sa-8 is complete ! why u dont release it !
PS: i cant seen explosive wave in this video!

hpasp please ! the system is ready ! dont waste the time !
please think about us ! we are Thirsty of new system in samsim
sicko


Code readiness is approximately ~40%
Manual readiness is 0%
Posted By: Lieste

Re: OSA work in progress video released... - 07/06/13 03:32 PM

The visual indication of missile path seems very straight compared to those in real videos ~ there seems to be a lot of oscillation around the mean flight-path.

Don't know whether this is because missile flight and guidance are in an early phase or because this 'wobble' is under-represented generally. It is only slight when seen as a 3d line, but when viewed from the 'end' like this, the error correction responses should be more visible IMO.
Posted By: piston79

Re: OSA work in progress video released... - 07/06/13 03:37 PM

Originally Posted By: Lieste
..... but when viewed from the 'end' like this, the error correction responses should be more visible IMO.


Yep, like in 3dAAR in google earth...
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: OSA work in progress video released... - 07/06/13 04:17 PM

Originally Posted By: Lieste
The visual indication of missile path seems very straight compared to those in real videos ~ there seems to be a lot of oscillation around the mean flight-path.

Don't know whether this is because missile flight and guidance are in an early phase or because this 'wobble' is under-represented generally. It is only slight when seen as a 3d line, but when viewed from the 'end' like this, the error correction responses should be more visible IMO.


Agree, this was just the first iteration of missile smoke trail.
The missile rotation is not added yet.
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/06/13 04:24 PM

Guys!

When I decided to upload these status reports, my idea was to show you how the development progresses.
There is at least a half year of code development ahead, so...

- do not ask to be released at this point
- do not expect perfect behavior

If these sneak-peaks gives you false expectations, that I can avoid these in the future easily...
sigh
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/06/13 04:47 PM

1. Only one member here asks in a daily basis for release... (and he will continue, nevertheless you're uploading anything or not)

2. I do not expect perfect behaviour, just "Realistic to the switch".... yep
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/06/13 05:03 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp

The missile rotation is not added yet.


i fully agree with missile rotation and flight pass in video !
when we use from karat for what reason ? because we want see missile move on air till impact point !
right hpasp ? what do u think ?
could u create any missile feature in karat for us that can be roaring and maneuvering flying on karat ?
do u have a model ? if yes please share it to us !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RVFtCMXbAKY
in this video after first smoke trail i can see the missile maneuvering near the target !

just create first smoke trail is not enough for user , are u agree with this or not ?
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/06/13 05:33 PM

Please read the last Hpasp's post once again nope
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/06/13 05:40 PM

Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
Please read the last Hpasp's post once again nope


It's useless, man.... frown
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/06/13 05:46 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
Please read the last Hpasp's post once again nope


It's useless, man.... frown


i just say my idea because some times developer need some ideas from users !
why u guys ? why ashamed me ? frown
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/06/13 06:54 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
Please read the last Hpasp's post once again nope


It's useless, man.... frown


i just say my idea because some times developer need some ideas from users !
why u guys ? why ashamed me ? frown


These are not ideas farokh.
This is not a si-Fi simulator!It is a real system sim.
You put pure pressure to the developer !!!don't you understand this?

Please tune your approach.It is annoying.
Hpasps deserves a lot better approach and also the other guys in that forum.
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/06/13 07:57 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
Please read the last Hpasp's post once again nope


It's useless, man.... frown


i just say my idea because some times developer need some ideas from users !
why u guys ? why ashamed me ? frown


Please understand that these screenshots/videos are recorded during development.
Im lucky to have several real operators who (were there, and done that) and helping development.

After these screenshots/videos shared, I receive several proposals/corrections from them to make this SIM more accurate.

Im just posting these here to show you the stage of the daily development...
thumbsup
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/06/13 08:36 PM

The Soviet SAM systems were following a "general" design...

Silver hammer finish...
Dvina (SA-2B/F)
KUB (SA-6)
ZSU-23-4 Shilka

Blue panel...
Volkhov (SA-2E)
Neva (SA-3B)
KRUG (SA-4B)
Vega (SA-5B)

... and the next design was the "WHITE".
OSA (SA-8B)
S-300PS/PMU (SA-10B)



Here you can see, where the Soviet SAM design advanced since the "Blue" design...

- automatic target acquisition
- automatic missile preparation depending on target flight parameters
- automatic missile guidance method selection depending on target flight parameters
- automatic missile radio-proxy fuse setting depending on target flight parameters
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/06/13 08:40 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Im just posting these here to show you the stage of the daily development...
thumbsup


And we all appreciate it thumbsup
Posted By: montieris

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/06/13 08:59 PM

Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Im just posting these here to show you the stage of the daily development...
thumbsup


And we all appreciate it thumbsup

+1
Posted By: Mdore

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/07/13 07:34 AM

Thanks for the update Hpasp!

I understood very few steps you took in the video. Just rotating, turning on dial lights and camera zoom. Everything else you did in the video I didn't understand at all :P

It seems complicated, but that's probably just because I don't know the system.

An idea just came to me, you're probably not going to be able to do it, but if there's a HARM incoming, can we tell the driver to move the vehicle? biggrin
Posted By: max2012

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/07/13 08:19 PM


question to hpasp!

It means there will be no demo version or beta version of the example in September.

And no corrections will be made.

and what about kub (sa-6) and the s-300ps/pmu (sa-10b) what plans they will or not at all.
Posted By: Mdore

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/08/13 06:28 AM

Hpasp has already said he cannot make an SA-6 sim, because Hungary still uses the SA-6. It's still secret.
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/08/13 06:43 AM

Originally Posted By: Mdore
Hpasp has already said he cannot make an SA-6 sim, because Hungary still uses the SA-6. It's still secret.



all i know that almost of hungarian sa-6 is upgraded but some of them still in first Prototype SA-6A !!!!
but that is the questions !

what different between sa-6A and sa-6upgraded ???? most ask thumbsup

of course i prefer hpasp create hawk not sa-6 ! mim-23A from 1957 !
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/08/13 08:00 AM

Originally Posted By: Mdore
Hpasp has already said he cannot make an SA-6 sim, because Hungary still uses the SA-6. It's still secret.



OSA akm is also in use but it is under construction ...

See it as a contribution to the training of mil personnel (very well welcome ) and not as a secret (no frequencies ,no radiation) smile2
Posted By: max2012

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/08/13 09:59 AM


.. and the next design was the "WHITE".
OSA (SA-8B)
S-300PS/PMU (SA-10B)

And that's what's so fun?

Why KUB cannot do.

Well S-300 secret, and KUB then.

OSA can demo on September or October to lay out, example Ashuluk.
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/08/13 10:00 AM

Originally Posted By: ePap

OSA akm is also in use but it is under construction ...



1. Not in Hungary - http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3759651/Re_9K33M2_OSA_AK_SA_8B_Gecko#Post3759651
2. Under construction is "OSA-AK"
yep
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/08/13 10:08 AM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: ePap

OSA akm is also in use but it is under construction ...



1. Not in Hungary.
2. Under construction is "OSA-AK"
yep


1. In many other countries .
2. Nop.It is OSA akm definitely.
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/08/13 11:00 AM

Originally Posted By: ePap

1. In many other countries .
2. Nop.It is OSA akm definitely.


1. Doesn't matter as the developer is under hungarian citizenship and is responsible under Hungarian law...
2. Developer say it is AK...

neaner
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/08/13 11:15 AM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: ePap

1. In many other countries .
2. Nop.It is OSA akm definitely.


1. Doesn't matter as the developer is under hungarian citizenship and is responsible under Hungarian law...
2. Developer say it is AK...

neaner


Facts say other ...
You will See soon .... seehearspeak
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/08/13 11:28 AM

Originally Posted By: ePap

Facts say other ...
You will See soon .... seehearspeak


Even if he creates AKM, it doesn't matter as "OSA" was never fielded in Hungary, thus - no problem of creating it... (despite "Kub")...
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/08/13 12:09 PM

hpasp said
(2013.03.22) Announcement
The next SAM system, to be added into the SAM Simulator "Realistic to the Switch" will be the 9K33M2 Osa-AK (SA-8B Gecko).

https://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/

so epap want to kidding us rofl
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/08/13 12:23 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: ePap

Facts say other ...
You will See soon .... seehearspeak


Even if he creates AKM, it doesn't matter as "OSA" was never fielded in Hungary, thus - no problem of creating it... (despite "Kub")...


Who said that is a problem to create -AKM ?On the contrary,it will help a lot mil personnel in training!!!

Black cat ( -AK) or white cat (-AKM),as soon as she cats mice (targets) it's fine !e? winkngrin
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/08/13 01:24 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: ePap

Facts say other ...
You will See soon .... seehearspeak


Even if he creates AKM, it doesn't matter as "OSA" was never fielded in Hungary, thus - no problem of creating it... (despite "Kub")...


Who said that is a problem to create -AKM ?On the contrary,it will help a lot mil personnel in training!!!

Black cat ( -AK) or white cat (-AKM),as soon as she cats mice (targets) it's fine !e? winkngrin


Epap @
without kidding , are u serius ? hpasp now working on OSA-AKM ?
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/08/13 02:42 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: ePap

Facts say other ...
You will See soon .... seehearspeak


Even if he creates AKM, it doesn't matter as "OSA" was never fielded in Hungary, thus - no problem of creating it... (despite "Kub")...


Who said that is a problem to create -AKM ?On the contrary,it will help a lot mil personnel in training!!!

Black cat ( -AK) or white cat (-AKM),as soon as she cats mice (targets) it's fine !e? winkngrin


Epap @
without kidding , are u serius ? hpasp now working on OSA-AKM ?


I always use to be serius .

What is going to be the difference for you ?
AK or akm is going to be the same for you,as sim-operator.
In real could be some minor differences for specific occasions.
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/08/13 03:29 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap

I always use to be serius .

What is going to be the difference for you ?
AK or akm is going to be the same for you,as sim-operator.
In real could be some minor differences for specific occasions.


because im in shocked from this news !!!!
here is big different between this two!!!
AK can atack with 9m33m2 to 10km range and 15000ft
.... but AKM can engage with 9m33m3 to 15km range and 40000 ft !


so here is big different between this 2 and i am so happy now ! bump

so tell me about 9m33m3 missile....
do u have any photo from 9m33m2 and 9m33m3 ? about shape and design style
9m33m2 and 9m33m3 has what different between each other?
tell me about :
Weight
Length
Diameter
and warhead
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/08/13 03:47 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: ePap

I always use to be serius .

What is going to be the difference for you ?
AK or akm is going to be the same for you,as sim-operator.
In real could be some minor differences for specific occasions.


because im in shocked from this news !!!!
here is big different between this two!!!
AK can atack with 9m33m2 to 10km range and 15000ft
.... but AKM can engage with 9m33m3 to 15km range and 40000 ft !


so here is big different between this 2 and i am so happy now ! bump

so tell me about 9m33m3 missile....
do u have any photo from 9m33m2 and 9m33m3 ? about shape and design style
9m33m2 and 9m33m3 has what different between each other?
tell me about :
Weight
Length
Diameter


Oh,my God !!! Not again !!!
Please.Piston79,heeelp duh
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/08/13 03:56 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap

Oh,my God !!! Not again !!!
Please.Piston79,heeelp duh


ok ok ok ! i just asked ! thats it ! please with your words dont ashamed me !
i ask because i have not any 9m33m3 picture !

what ever!
.... I Apologies
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/08/13 04:03 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: ePap

Oh,my God !!! Not again !!!
Please.Piston79,heeelp duh


ok ok ok ! i just asked ! thats it ! please with your words dont ashamed me !
i ask because i have not any 9m33m3 picture !

what ever!
.... I Apologies


I thought these could happen only in movies !!!
Have you seen that ? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0343660/
biggrin
Just go back to page 39 and read ,not only with eyes ...
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/08/13 04:26 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap


Just go back to page 39 and read ,not only with eyes ...

Variants
Click to reveal..
9K33 "Osa" (US DoD designation SA-8A "Gecko") began development in 1960 and was introduced in 1971-1972 with four exposed 9M33 missiles per TELAR 9A33B and a maximum range of 12 km (7.5 mi).
9K33M "OSA-M" (NATO reporting name SA-N-4 "Gecko") was introduced in 1972 and is the naval version of the system with two 9M33M missiles on a Zif-122 retractable rotating launcher and improved performance. It has been installed on Gepard class frigate, Kara class guided missile cruisers, Kiev class VTOL cruisers and also the Kirov, Slava and Krivak classes.
9K33M2 "Osa-AK" (US DoD designation SA-8B "Gecko Mod-0") with TELAR 9A33BM2 was introduced in 1975 with the new six-missile box launcher, each 9M33M2 missile being a sealed round.
9K33M3 "Osa-AKM" (US DoD designation SA-8B "Gecko Mod-1") with TELAR 9A33BM3 and missiles 9M33M3 was introduced in 1980 with the maximum range extended to 15 km (9.3 mi) and maximum altitude to 12 km (40,000 ft) as explained above. Most OSA-AKM systems also feature an IFF antenna.

Missiles
Click to reveal..
Engagement range for the early versions is approximately 2–9 km (1.3-5.6 miles) and engagement altitudes of between 50–5000 m (164-16,400 ft). The 9M33M2 "Osa-A" missile extends the ranges out to 1500-10000m (1-6.2 miles) and engagement altitudes to 25–5000 m (82-16,400 ft). The 9M33M3 missile greatly enhances the altitude engagement envelope to 10–12000 m (33-42,500 ft), and as such are also able to fly further (about 15 km/9 miles) but the system is not able to engage targets at longer ranges, due to other factors such as the radar tracking of the missiles. The system is designed for use primarily against jet aircraft and helicopters in any kind of weather.

The 9M33 missiles are 3.158 m (10.3 ft) long, weigh 126 kg (278 lb) and use command guidance. There is also a backup low-light optical tracking system for heavy ECM environments. The latest 9M33M3 missiles have an increased total weight of 170 kg (375 lb) in order to provide the extended range coverage and larger warhead. Propulsion is provided by a dual-thrust solid fuel rocket motor. Both versions feature a missile speed of around Mach 2.4 (peaking at around Mach 3) for a maximum target engagement speed of around Mach 1.4 for the original missile and Mach 1.6 for the M2\M3 missiles. The warhead for the initial and M2 versions weighs 19 kg (42 pounds), increased to 40 kg (88 lb) in the M3 version to improve performance against helicopters. All versions have impact and proximity fuzes.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K33_Osa

all i know
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/08/13 04:31 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: ePap


Just go back to page 39 and read ,not only with eyes ...


Click to reveal..
9K33 "Osa" (US DoD designation SA-8A "Gecko") began development in 1960 and was introduced in 1971-1972 with four exposed 9M33 missiles per TELAR 9A33B and a maximum range of 12 km (7.5 mi).
9K33M "OSA-M" (NATO reporting name SA-N-4 "Gecko") was introduced in 1972 and is the naval version of the system with two 9M33M missiles on a Zif-122 retractable rotating launcher and improved performance. It has been installed on Gepard class frigate, Kara class guided missile cruisers, Kiev class VTOL cruisers and also the Kirov, Slava and Krivak classes.
9K33M2 "Osa-AK" (US DoD designation SA-8B "Gecko Mod-0") with TELAR 9A33BM2 was introduced in 1975 with the new six-missile box launcher, each 9M33M2 missile being a sealed round.
9K33M3 "Osa-AKM" (US DoD designation SA-8B "Gecko Mod-1") with TELAR 9A33BM3 and missiles 9M33M3 was introduced in 1980 with the maximum range extended to 15 km (9.3 mi) and maximum altitude to 12 km (40,000 ft) as explained above. Most OSA-AKM systems also feature an IFF antenna.



Click to reveal..
Engagement range for the early versions is approximately 2–9 km (1.3-5.6 miles) and engagement altitudes of between 50–5000 m (164-16,400 ft). The 9M33M2 "Osa-A" missile extends the ranges out to 1500-10000m (1-6.2 miles) and engagement altitudes to 25–5000 m (82-16,400 ft). The 9M33M3 missile greatly enhances the altitude engagement envelope to 10–12000 m (33-42,500 ft), and as such are also able to fly further (about 15 km/9 miles) but the system is not able to engage targets at longer ranges, due to other factors such as the radar tracking of the missiles. The system is designed for use primarily against jet aircraft and helicopters in any kind of weather.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K33_Osa

all i know


Ok,ok.

You have your answers you need from wiki.
Why then you are asking again and again.

I am sure that even now you have not read page 39, otherwise you wouldn't answer like this._
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/08/13 04:47 PM

i read wiki and i read page 39 too
but im confused between this 2 different words !

that what i asking questions !!!! rolleyes
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/08/13 05:23 PM

Do not trust Wiki.
thumbsup
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/08/13 05:23 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
i read wiki and i read page 39 too
but im confused between this 2 different words !

that what i asking questions !!!! rolleyes


If you don't realize, you are telling me and Hpasp idiots as soon as wiki exists and YOU pick up information from there e!!

If you are confused choose one but stop that.
I told you before,tune up your approach.
Here is a friendly place and we contribute with knowledge.
If you can't follow the depth of answers try harder, read more the official papers/documents given to you by the developer.

I have no hard feelings man but find another way of approach,this won't work any more.

PS: I think you are lucky haven't born in ancient Sparta ... smash

Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/08/13 06:20 PM

Quote:
Trust me, that this will be THE all time favorite system for all the SAMSIM beginners.


I remembered those Hpasp's words when read this (from a real professional - google translator):

Quote:
Simulators.
The simulator on the Osa-MA gorgeous! I listened attentively to the news. Everybody scream, aircraft shot down, the Georgians idiots, they cannot shoot, it should be only the Ukrainians! To do this you mast learn long time !
#%&*$#! Within two hours preparing any crew on Osa-Ma to perform the firings. (No maintnance, only combat use) Of course, even then you need to train the battalion commander at introductory, in the case of possible failures. Do not believe me? At least, I can cite two recent cases of it.
1. Varyag (Red Ukraine) is going on a visit by South Korea. Somehow the crew was disbanded, there was only a battalion commander. All the others are far from life (do not know a #%&*$#). Out to sea, with a control check before departure. In the post down FRO 36 Vadik Riabinin DRC. He is trying to check the crew, the commander goes mad. Vadim asked me, Valera help. After 40 minutes, the crew worked like clockwork. At this point, the actual target was discovered, a plane that was landing at the airport. The target was locked-on in seconds, no problems with tracking and electronically shooting.
2. And another case is almost just before his retirement. On the flotilla planned shooting, plus came from the IPC Sovgavan. So, as I was then serving in the URAV, iI received an order to test the readiness of the crew. The audit showed, that because the ship were out of fuel and power for six months, there was no crew either. We had to do something. On one of the IASC I gathered experts LTO (unfortunately, they were all graduates of the Faculty of PNI miners, not fools and by the time I taught them a thing or two per year, but no experience of operator's training) and two zrdn's. Planted two officers instead of operators, combat staff - lieutenant out of school, the rest stay behind and started training. Again, after 40 minutes the crew performed all procedures for opening fire on any target. The main thing! There was an example, and the training of operators has begun!

I'm preparing a crew in two hours!


Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/08/13 06:49 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Quote:
Trust me, that this will be THE all time favorite system for all the SAMSIM beginners.


I remembered those Hpasp's words when read this (from a real professional - google translator):

Quote:
Simulators.
The simulator on the Osa-MA gorgeous! I listened attentively to the news. Everybody scream, aircraft shot down, the Georgians idiots, they cannot shoot, it should be only the Ukrainians! To do this you mast learn long time !
#%&*$#! Within two hours preparing any crew on Osa-Ma to perform the firings. (No maintnance, only combat use) Of course, even then you need to train the battalion commander at introductory, in the case of possible failures. Do not believe me? At least, I can cite two recent cases of it.
1. Varyag (Red Ukraine) is going on a visit by South Korea. Somehow the crew was disbanded, there was only a battalion commander. All the others are far from life (do not know a #%&*$#). Out to sea, with a control check before departure. In the post down FRO 36 Vadik Riabinin DRC. He is trying to check the crew, the commander goes mad. Vadim asked me, Valera help. After 40 minutes, the crew worked like clockwork. At this point, the actual target was discovered, a plane that was landing at the airport. The target was locked-on in seconds, no problems with tracking and electronically shooting.
2. And another case is almost just before his retirement. On the flotilla planned shooting, plus came from the IPC Sovgavan. So, as I was then serving in the URAV, iI received an order to test the readiness of the crew. The audit showed, that because the ship were out of fuel and power for six months, there was no crew either. We had to do something. On one of the IASC I gathered experts LTO (unfortunately, they were all graduates of the Faculty of PNI miners, not fools and by the time I taught them a thing or two per year, but no experience of operator's training) and two zrdn's. Planted two officers instead of operators, combat staff - lieutenant out of school, the rest stay behind and started training. Again, after 40 minutes the crew performed all procedures for opening fire on any target. The main thing! There was an example, and the training of operators has begun!

I'm preparing a crew in two hours!




In order to use OSA akm system effectively you need a lot of hard work.
The stories about preparing a crew in two hours is for laughters.

The system man machine interface is friendly but need coordination of three operators.
The search radar and the 3 zones is a negative gap and loosing time to find the target.
The lack of digital process of search radar do the job more difficult .

Especially when you use enlisted soldiers (servicemen for 12 months)
Of course in some countries (former Warsaw pack) the personnel remained in the same position for 20 years and this make things much easier.

In general it is very hard to maintain high level of availability and training according to Russian standards
Especially in maintenance .This is my experience.
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/08/13 06:53 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap

In general it is very hard to maintain high level of availability and training according to Russian standards
Especially in maintenance .This is my experience.


Within two hours preparing any crew on Osa-Ma to perform the firings. (No maintnance, only combat use) Of course, even then you need to train the battalion commander at introductory, in the case of possible failures...
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/08/13 07:17 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: ePap

In general it is very hard to maintain high level of availability and training according to Russian standards
Especially in maintenance .This is my experience.


Within two hours preparing any crew on Osa-Ma to perform the firings. (No maintnance, only combat use) Of course, even then you need to train the battalion commander at introductory, in the case of possible failures...



Don't forget that naval version is different .
Has no peculiarities with the 3 searching zones , no ground effects and (I assume) longer range from integration of ship long range early warning.
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/10/13 01:09 PM

@Epap

in real life ! when one harm launch at you
what do u do at this situation ?
sa-8 for run from harm using from IRZ decoy
Or
you tell to driver to move to somewhere ?
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/10/13 02:26 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
@Epap

in real life ! when one harm launch at you
what do u do at this situation ?
sa-8 for run from harm using from IRZ decoy
Or
you tell to driver to move to somewhere ?


If you will tell me how do I know that a harm is coming towards me then I will tell you what I will do . smile2
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/10/13 03:03 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: farokh
@Epap

in real life ! when one harm launch at you
what do u do at this situation ?
sa-8 for run from harm using from IRZ decoy
Or
you tell to driver to move to somewhere ?


If you will tell me how do I know that a harm is coming towards me then I will tell you what I will do . smile2


While you try to find how you will realize that you are the target of an incoming Harm ,I would suggest to do the following :

1. If you are married , call your mother in law to switch on her
http://www.google.gr/search?client=safar...img.bt_GFRhOSdA

2. For the crew to do the following

http://www.onewayradio.net/oneway-blog/strouthokamilismos/

smile2


Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/10/13 04:03 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: farokh
@Epap

in real life ! when one harm launch at you
what do u do at this situation ?
sa-8 for run from harm using from IRZ decoy
Or
you tell to driver to move to somewhere ?


If you will tell me how do I know that a harm is coming towards me then I will tell you what I will do . smile2


While you try to find how you will realize that you are the target of an incoming Harm ,I would suggest to do the following :

1. If you are married , call your mother in law to switch on her
http://www.google.gr/search?client=safar...img.bt_GFRhOSdA

2. For the crew to do the following

http://www.onewayradio.net/oneway-blog/strouthokamilismos/

smile2




what ? confused
Posted By: Hpasp

OSA work in progress screenshot... - 07/10/13 04:39 PM

Two missile launched against a P-15 in Ustka...
... double kill.
biggrin biggrin
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/10/13 04:56 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: farokh
@Epap

in real life ! when one harm launch at you
what do u do at this situation ?
sa-8 for run from harm using from IRZ decoy
Or
you tell to driver to move to somewhere ?


If you will tell me how do I know that a harm is coming towards me then I will tell you what I will do . smile2


While you try to find how you will realize that you are the target of an incoming Harm ,I would suggest to do the following :

1. If you are married , call your mother in law to switch on her
http://www.google.gr/search?client=safar...img.bt_GFRhOSdA

2. For the crew to do the following

http://www.onewayradio.net/oneway-blog/strouthokamilismos/

smile2






what ? confused


What didn't understand ?

It's so clear.
1st use decoys and
2nd change position (the auto correction devil ...),run for your life ... smile2
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/10/13 05:23 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Two missile launched against a P-15 in Ustka...
... double kill.
biggrin biggrin



where is the explosion wave? i see 2 circle ! are they the explosion wave ?
would u showing us in high zoom
so i guess missile proximity fuse created ?

PS: oo my god ... we are so close to one and new hobby !
i praying every day that this project be ready very soon , before when papa noel wants back .....
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/10/13 07:06 PM

Wellcome to the new Live Firing Range in SAMSIM...
... NAMFI, Crete, Greece!






http://www.namfi.gr/site/index.php
Posted By: Lieste

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/10/13 07:06 PM

Looks good ~ not photorealistic, but functional and appears similar to real missile tracks thumbsup.

(I think that *is* high zoom, given the low altitude of P-15, and both missile fusing on the same target *that far apart*).
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/10/13 08:39 PM

Originally Posted By: Lieste
Looks good ~ not photorealistic, but functional and appears similar to real missile tracks thumbsup.

(I think that *is* high zoom, given the low altitude of P-15, and both missile fusing on the same target *that far apart*).


Narrow field of view in carat. smile2
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/12/13 06:19 PM

Why KARAT is a DEADLY tool?

Ustka training ground.

Practice target:
P-15

9K33M2 OSA-AK


00:30, Practice target P-15 launched

00:02:20, 9M33M2 Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 15km
Target azimuth: 20°
Target elevation: 0°

00:02:25, 9M33M2 Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 15km
Target azimuth: 21°
Target elevation: 0°

00:02:36, Missile exploded on Channel-1
Practice target P-15 hit by SAM. (miss distance: 17m)

00:02:39, Missile exploded on Channel-2
Practice target P-15 killed by SAM. (miss distance: 21m)

Total, SNR On Air Time: 0sec


Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/12/13 06:39 PM

+1000 thumbsup
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/12/13 06:44 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
+1000 thumbsup


snr on air = 0 ?????????? confused

dear hpasp would u create one another movie for us with better resolution ?????
with sound of course ! i love hear to radar and launch sound !

PS: how it is possible that you without transmitter!!!! can guiding missile to target ?
missile how can know that where is target on sky ?

ps2: what is blue line in karat ! i ee one line that goes down ! is it flight path of target ?
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/12/13 07:02 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Why KARAT is a DEADLY tool?



You should count command transmission.... neaner
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/12/13 07:36 PM

on question during KARATing to hpasp @

could we rotate karat cadre, with drag mouse left click on TV screen and rotate it to up/ down/ left/ right/ with left ????

i dont know nothing about karating but as i know.... after launch you need to guide missile with karat boresight to target right ? so we azimuth and elevation wheels ... its very hard to move and down !

maybe im in wrong mind!!!! please help if i say wrong thing
Posted By: Lieste

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/12/13 07:36 PM

Obviously SNR is on, but search and tracking radars are using a dummy load. The Guidance radar is providing active course/LOS information to the missile beacon.

I assume that it merely flies as a SACLOS missile along the LOS.

The target *may* get a launch warning if their ECM fit is aware of the relevant frequencies and 9M33 operation modes, but not enough to locate or fire an ARM against it. An optical ASM might be a possibility if the launch site can be identified, but the SAM will reach the target before the ASM reaches the ground, and it would need to be another aircraft that Id'd and targeted the launcher, while the target attempts to/evades the missile.
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/13/13 09:42 AM

Originally Posted By: farokh
on question during KARATing to hpasp @

could we rotate karat cadre, with drag mouse left click on TV screen and rotate it to up/ down/ left/ right/ with left ????

i dont know nothing about karating but as i know.... after launch you need to guide missile with karat boresight to target right ? so we azimuth and elevation wheels ... its very hard to move and down !

maybe im in wrong mind!!!! please help if i say wrong thing


My plan is a bit unrealistic approach rolleyes ...
... if you manage to bring the target close to the crosshair with the wheels, you can lock it visually by pressing PA, and then your virtual operators will track it.
Reason for this (already debated) approach, is that you need a mouse to be able to press the launch button, and switch other missile related switches.
cowboy
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/13/13 09:55 AM

We need mouse with more switches .... smile2

Or introduction of more keyboard use... rolleyes
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/13/13 10:10 AM

Originally Posted By: ePap
We need mouse with more switches .... smile2

Or introduction of more keyboard use... rolleyes


Also do not forget, that perspectively the Karat could be introduced also into Volhov, Neva, and KRUG systems.
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/13/13 10:21 AM

The heat of the battle (with carat) belongs to OSA AK/akm .
Adrenaline produced only in Shorad systems.
Less reaction time,best game play,more adrenaline !!!
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/13/13 10:37 AM

Originally Posted By: ePap
The heat of the battle (with carat) belongs to OSA AK/akm .
Adrenaline produced only in Shorad systems.
Less reaction time,best game play,more adrenaline !!!


Might be interesting to note here, that the SAME Karat-2 "Optical Target Tracking System" was used with the Volhov, Neva, KUB, KRUG, OSA systems.

In each system it had the same f=150mm and the f=500mm telephoto lens systems.
Its weight is 54kg!!!
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/13/13 10:52 AM

If you use carat with these systems you degrade them to short range systems.

With carat you can see a target , in day light conditions , from 17-15 km and detonation (or target kill ) up to 25 km .
Posted By: Mdore

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/13/13 11:04 AM

Could you set it up so we can use the arrow keys or WASD keys to control the direction we're looking?

Then we could keep one hand on the keyboard and one on the mouse. I think that would be a little better than auto-track.
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/13/13 11:27 AM

Originally Posted By: Mdore
Could you set it up so we can use the arrow keys or WASD keys to control the direction we're looking?

Then we could keep one hand on the keyboard and one on the mouse. I think that would be a little better than auto-track.


We also have two spare legs ... smile2
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/13/13 02:41 PM

Originally Posted By: Lieste
Obviously SNR is on, but search and tracking radars are using a dummy load. The Guidance radar is providing active course/LOS information to the missile beacon.


There is a major disadvantage of "OSA"'s KARAT, compared to the other systems - KARAT is too close to the launching containers, so the smoke could be a problem sometimes... The manual recommends to lock the target on AS, before launch in case smoke makes KARAT useless....
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/13/13 03:48 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: Lieste
Obviously SNR is on, but search and tracking radars are using a dummy load. The Guidance radar is providing active course/LOS information to the missile beacon.


There is a major disadvantage of "OSA"'s KARAT, compared to the other systems - KARAT is too close to the launching containers, so the smoke could be a problem sometimes... The manual recommends to lock the target on AS, before launch in case smoke makes KARAT useless....


We solved that problem by installing very strong fans blowing upwards and in front of carat ... winkngrin
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/13/13 05:37 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: Lieste
Obviously SNR is on, but search and tracking radars are using a dummy load. The Guidance radar is providing active course/LOS information to the missile beacon.


There is a major disadvantage of "OSA"'s KARAT, compared to the other systems - KARAT is too close to the launching containers, so the smoke could be a problem sometimes... The manual recommends to lock the target on AS, before launch in case smoke makes KARAT useless....


We solved that problem by installing very strong fans blowing upwards and in front of carat ... winkngrin


You can see clearly how well its working .
Clear view for Carat ...

Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/13/13 05:53 PM

Also do not forget, that the missile is launched at a fixed elevation, well above the expected target.
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/13/13 06:09 PM

By the way.
How do we know that an OSA is locked and ready to fire ,standing from a distance ?
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/13/13 08:51 PM

Maybe radar turret (fire control radar and missile tracking antennas) is looking up?
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/14/13 05:37 AM

Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
Maybe radar turret (fire control radar and missile tracking antennas) is looking up?


You are close but not precise .
You can move the Target Tracking Radar manually in what ever elevation you like ,without been locked on target... smile2
But...
Posted By: Vympel

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/14/13 07:33 AM

Maybe by missile container covers being open? Just a wild guess.
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/14/13 08:21 AM

Originally Posted By: Vympel
Maybe by missile container covers being open? Just a wild guess.


No.These covers open after the fire button has been pressed .
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/14/13 09:01 AM

Missile containers are elevated more than in transport position?
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/14/13 09:31 AM

Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
Missile containers are elevated more than in transport position?


Missile containers loaded on OSA are always steady in 28 deg elevation .
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/14/13 02:04 PM

So how? sigh
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/14/13 02:28 PM

Well, when the TTR locks on a target the MSR (missile sighting radars) moves and stop at 28 deg elevation ,waiting for missile lift off.

PS : MSR ( missile sighting radars) and not MTR (missile tracking radars) is the correct because we have no missile track !
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/14/13 02:41 PM

Now it makes sense, it must be those 28 degs for MSR only since missile always starts with this angle and TTR is looking at angle of the target independently. Thanks thumbsup
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/14/13 02:59 PM

Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
Now it makes sense, it must be those 28 degs for MSR only since missile always starts with this angle and TTR is looking at angle of the target independently. Thanks thumbsup


Also don't forget that after lift off the MSR steer the missile and put it in the narrow beam of TTR (~300/500 m from OSA).
After this the specific MSR follows the movements of TTR antena while the other one remains at 28 deg. waiting for a possible missile fire to the same target.
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/14/13 06:02 PM

Epap@

i read somewhere that OSA accuracy is between 5 till 7 meters and at hard target 10
... but in last AFTER ACTION REPORT by last trying hpasp with karat mode
....missile explosive distance to target was so far !!! between 17 and 21 meters
..... this error was for karat accuracy or proximity fuse in OSA sometimes detonating sooner than ideal moment ?
osa can kill target from 21 meters ? sigh
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/14/13 06:18 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
Epap@

i read somewhere that OSA accuracy is between 5 till 7 meters and at hard target 10
... but in last AFTER ACTION REPORT by last trying hpasp with karat mode
....missile explosive distance to target was so far !!! between 17 and 21 meters
..... this error was for karat accuracy or proximity fuse in OSA sometimes detonating sooner than ideal moment ?
osa can kill target from 21 meters ? sigh


With an OSA you can do anything you like ... biggrin
Posted By: Lieste

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/14/13 06:37 PM

Accuracy may be given as a SD ~ almost (but not exactly) 50% of missiles will pass in a box of this height and width (69% for each separately). By roughly 3x this dimension you can expect 'around' 95% of correctly functioning missiles will pass inside the 'box'.

The target has non-zero dimension. Even with a contact only fuse you would see detonations at non zero miss-distances as the rule, rather than exception. Miss distance being the deviation of the impact from either the aim-point or target centroid.

Setting warhead size, and fusing radius to around 3SD, plus a little for target dimension maximises utility of the system accuracy without unduly reducing missile performance, increasing overall size and weight or having ineffective 'fusing events', or unfused 'lethal-distance' misses.
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/14/13 06:49 PM

http://simhq.com/forum/files/usergals/2013/07/full-35562-61662-vlcsnap_2010_12_17_15h02m50s182.png

with few words.
Analyze the above and get your answers
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/14/13 08:58 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: farokh
Epap@

i read somewhere that OSA accuracy is between 5 till 7 meters and at hard target 10
... but in last AFTER ACTION REPORT by last trying hpasp with karat mode
....missile explosive distance to target was so far !!! between 17 and 21 meters
..... this error was for karat accuracy or proximity fuse in OSA sometimes detonating sooner than ideal moment ?
osa can kill target from 21 meters ? sigh


With an OSA you can do anything you like ... biggrin

i ask few question and you rotating me !!!! it was not an answer lol duck
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/15/13 03:58 AM

Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: farokh
Epap@

i read somewhere that OSA accuracy is between 5 till 7 meters and at hard target 10
... but in last AFTER ACTION REPORT by last trying hpasp with karat mode
....missile explosive distance to target was so far !!! between 17 and 21 meters
..... this error was for karat accuracy or proximity fuse in OSA sometimes detonating sooner than ideal moment ?
osa can kill target from 21 meters ? sigh


With an OSA you can do anything you like ... biggrin

i ask few question and you rotating me !!!! it was not an answer lol duck


Rotating or not,this is the answer for you

http://simhq.com/forum/files/usergals/2013/07/full-35562-61662-vlcsnap_2010_12_17_15h02m50s182.png

http://simhq.com/forum/files/usergals/20...07_11.50.07.jpg
Posted By: Hpasp

OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/16/13 07:50 PM

Some F-4 Phantom is around...
biggrin





Posted By: farokh

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/16/13 08:01 PM

great +1000
but.... i guess this plane is like f-16 or f-18 ! of course at my eyese !
would u take another photo from closer range ?

PS: OSA-AK could hunt maverick missile ?
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/16/13 08:31 PM

Close like this ?

http://simhq.com/forum/files/usergals/2013/07/full-35562-62171-osa_carat.jpg

winkngrin
Posted By: farokh

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/16/13 08:44 PM



Oh yeah great tnx to epap biggrin .... what a quality biggrin biggrin biggrin where did u get from ?
look at phantoms engine smoke wacky
is it real part from real moment ? seehearspeak
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/16/13 08:52 PM

No,it is photoshop but from close range and definitely is a smoky f-4e ... winkngrin
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/17/13 12:18 PM

i seeing one thing in middle of missile
i sign it with red mark
what is it ?
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/17/13 01:14 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
great +1000
but.... i guess this plane is like f-16 or f-18 ! of course at my eyese !
would u take another photo from closer range ?

PS: OSA-AK could hunt maverick missile ?


The Karat-2 Camera system has f=150mm wide view, or the f=500mm narrow (zoom in) view.
If you ever tried to photo military jets at an air-show, you will recognize, that targets will be always small on the Karat screen, except if they are suicidal, or doing practice flight.

f=500mm narrow (zoom in) view of an F-4 Phantom at 10km range.
(where our missile should hit him)


f=500mm narrow (zoom in) view of an F-4 Phantom at 3km range.
(now he is already finished his bombing run on us)
Posted By: Mdore

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/17/13 01:27 PM

Are you putting the aircraft into the distance map, and generating them that way?

Have you considered using sprites?
Posted By: farokh

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/17/13 01:36 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: farokh
great +1000
but.... i guess this plane is like f-16 or f-18 ! of course at my eyese !
would u take another photo from closer range ?

PS: OSA-AK could hunt maverick missile ?


The Karat-2 Camera system has f=150mm wide view, or the f=500mm narrow (zoom in) view.
If you ever tried to photo military jets at an air-show, you will recognize, that targets will be always small on the Karat screen, except if they are suicidal, or doing practice flight.

f=500mm narrow (zoom in) view of an F-4 Phantom at 10km range.
(where our missile should hit him)


f=500mm narrow (zoom in) view of an F-4 Phantom at 3km range.
(now he is already finished his bombing run on us)



hpasp what about other models on ashuluk and other scenarios ?
f-111 / f16 / f-18 / a-7 corsair / a-6 / f-105 / a-4 sky hawk .....what about them ?
did i work on them yet ? or just phantom modeled ?

or for osa you just release phantom on karat ?
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/17/13 01:43 PM

Originally Posted By: Mdore
Are you putting the aircraft into the distance map, and generating them that way?

Have you considered using sprites?


This is just the first proof of concept.
Sprites would be nicer, but their movement would not be as smooth as a 3D map.

And to stay at the reality level, the A4's will be much smaller...
(three angry black dots streaking over the sky)
biggrin

Eventually all types of enemy will be added.
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/17/13 03:08 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
i seeing one thing in middle of missile
i sign it with red mark
what is it ?





Screws and bolts connecting metallic parts of missile body.
What else could be ? Where are you rotating? smile2
Posted By: Lieste

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/17/13 04:54 PM

It looks to be a the 'key' that prevents the missile body rotating while in the launch tube - look to the left of the image.
Remember that the fins rotate compared to the rocket body.
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/17/13 05:36 PM

Originally Posted By: Lieste
It looks to be a the 'key' that prevents the missile body rotating while in the launch tube - look to the left of the image.


thumbsup
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/17/13 05:45 PM

Originally Posted By: Lieste
It looks to be a the 'key' that prevents the missile body rotating while in the launch tube - look to the left of the image.
Remember that the fins rotate compared to the rocket body.



The missile starts rotating after it is locked in range from MSR (missile sighting radar) which happens when the missile is at least 30-50 m and the aft fins have fully unfolded.After this the computer starts creating k1 and k2 commands who actually force missile to rotate (rolling).
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/17/13 05:51 PM

Do not miss leaded by the two tunnels which end up to the aft fins.
These are protective caps for wirings and waveguides of rear antennas of missile .
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/17/13 05:58 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: farokh
hpasp... would u introduce OSA missile to us correctly ????

i love to know more information about this missile !


http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/ebooks/Osa(1991).djvu
page 177..187


Detailed cutaway photos...










These pics are very useful ...
Posted By: Lieste

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/17/13 06:43 PM

Clearly marked as Transportirovanii ~ means 'Shipping' or something akin ~ and still appears to be an anti-rotation key.

(Remember that the aft end support is likely to be not 'stable' or intended for both load bearing and fixing the orientation of the body in the tube. Given the requirement to maintain connections to the launcher it probably isn't a great idea to have the missile rotating in the tube ~ damage to the connectors and/or waveguides is a possibility if more than a trivial amount of movement was permitted...)
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/17/13 06:57 PM

Originally Posted By: Lieste
Clearly marked as Transportirovanii ~ means 'Shipping' or something akin ~ and still appears to be an anti-rotation key.


I would appreciate if you can point with an arrow or with something else which exactly part of the missile you are talking about, because bay be a have misunderstand you .
Posted By: Lieste

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/17/13 07:10 PM

The ten or eleven projections on the skin, as marked on the earlier image. These are immediately aft of the cutout with the red (inert warhead?).
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/17/13 07:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Lieste
The ten or eleven projections on the skin, as marked on the earlier image. These are immediately aft of the cutout with the red (inert warhead?).


You mean this part?


This is where the missile can be opened, and the warhead can be loaded/unloaded.
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/17/13 07:40 PM

If this is (pic 1) what we are talking about, yes it is a locker inside the canister ,see pic 2


Posted By: Lieste

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/17/13 08:13 PM

Ok, so 'most' are merely latches that attach warhead to propulsion, but 'several' also key to the launch cannister - each is also present as a female 'notch' in the interior of the transport can that can be seen in the smaller image the questioner referred to.
Posted By: piston79

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/17/13 08:24 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp



f=500mm narrow (zoom in) view of an F-4 Phantom at 3km range.
(now he is already finished his bombing run on us)
Click to reveal..



How about better resolution in "zoom in" KARAT mode? it could be dependable of certain distance for every type of target (bigger or smaller)? Is this possible or too much load for the engine?
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/17/13 08:35 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: Hpasp



f=500mm narrow (zoom in) view of an F-4 Phantom at 3km range.
(now he is already finished his bombing run on us)
Click to reveal..



How about better resolution in "zoom in" KARAT mode? it could be dependable of certain distance for every type of target (bigger or smaller)? Is this possible or too much load for the engine?


Also better calibration of carat (off from cross hair)... smile2
Posted By: farokh

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/20/13 06:13 PM

dear Epap @

could u show to us osa fragments type ! ?
as i know sa-2 use kinde of rhombus fragment style
and sa-5 useing steel balls !

what about osa fragments ?
do u have any picture from oaa fragments ? please
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/20/13 06:51 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
dear Epap @

could u show to us osa fragments type ! ?
as i know sa-2 use kinde of rhombus fragment style
and sa-5 useing steel balls !

what about osa fragments ?
do u have any picture from oaa fragments ? please


My dear friend , i still try to find a way to gather some ...
It's a little dangerous to be close when a missile is blown, you know ... biggrin

May be something like this http://en.northtungsten.com/imageRepository/5997ecd6-07c2-4966-b5ec-cf06bfae2cc3.jpg

sent this, not to tell me that I am rotating you ... smile2
Posted By: piston79

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/21/13 10:01 AM

So, they are some kind of balls? Sure about that?
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/21/13 12:55 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
So, they are some kind of balls? Sure about that?


It could be something like this I wrote .. winkngrin
Posted By: farokh

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/25/13 06:01 PM

AH blush
i have one strange feeling for this 5 months
something mixed with stress for seeing OSA on samsim darkcloud
i never ever had any 5 months like this 5 months frown




Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/27/13 07:30 AM

Quiz.

There are two incoming targets and we fire against them with OSA -AK.

1. First target . Detonation(miss) distance is at 5m.
2. Second target. Detonation (miss) distance is at 12m.

Which target has the most probabilities to be killed, and why ? smile2
Posted By: Mdore

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/27/13 08:16 AM

The obvious answer is 5m. But since you asked the question, I guess the obvious answer is wrong. smile

So I will guess 12m.

Why? Maybe because at 5m, the shrapnel might miss the target? But at 12m the shrapnel is spread more?

100% guess
Posted By: farokh

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/27/13 09:03 AM

as we hear about osa fragments ! they are like steel balls !
like shotgun firing !
so number 2 is better answer but here is same question !

with miss distance 5 meter ... target could be kill with explosion wave ?
so from 5 meters + explosion wave + some of balls fragments ! kill percent going to high level !

this is easy question but for me hard to say

PS: Epap@ OSA warhead have how many of explosion degrees ?
this question could be help us to say true answer !!!!
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/27/13 09:37 AM

Originally Posted By: Mdore
The obvious answer is 5m. But since you asked the question, I guess the obvious answer is wrong. smile

So I will guess 12m.

Why? Maybe because at 5m, the shrapnel might miss the target? But at 12m the shrapnel is spread more?

100% guess


I like the way you approach it ... smile2
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/27/13 09:44 AM

Originally Posted By: farokh
as we hear about osa fragments ! they are like steel balls !
like shotgun firing !
so number 2 is better answer but here is same question !

with miss distance 5 meter ... target could be kill with explosion wave ?
so from 5 meters + explosion wave + some of balls fragments ! kill percent going to high level !

this is easy question but for me hard to say

PS: Epap@ OSA warhead have how many of explosion degrees ?
this question could be help us to say true answer !!!!


I also like your approach ,

BUT the PS has already answered to you with pm long time ago.
...piston79 will be right one more time, I guess... smash
Posted By: farokh

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/27/13 11:31 AM

Originally Posted By: ePap

BUT the PS has already answered to you with pm long time ago.


im sorry epap nope my memory is little weak biggrin i forget everything after pass a little time biggrin
like a fish

any way :

with this advice .... we will have better info to choose better answer

Click to reveal..
OSA doesn't have radius because the warhead blast is 60deg. Conical shape.

jackolantern
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/27/13 11:59 AM

So you have the conical blast of 60 deg.

Tip : the proximity fuse has also the same dimensions ...

Well...? mycomputer
Posted By: farokh

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/27/13 12:47 PM

i assume number 1 is the corrected abducted
because osa do not have any radius for kill target from far distance !

...so? fearful
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/27/13 12:54 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
i assume number 1 is the corrected abducted
because osa do not have any radius for kill target from far distance !

...so? fearful


Well, noop.

In both cases k3 energized (because we have detonation) but what could affect in both cases and the distance is different ?

This is the key of the answer .

Well...?

You Farokh first .
Posted By: farokh

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/27/13 01:19 PM

well, Mmmmm rolleyes
as i know , when one sam missile detonate near the target
warhead for better doing affect on target need distance till fragments can propagate on air and get speed for
Influence at target's body !

and fragments can affect on every where on target's body
with my explain ! we are close to case 2

this is all i know smash
Posted By: Vympel

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/27/13 02:01 PM

I would guess it depends on position of missile detonation in relation to target position, is it infront, behind, or to the side/up/down.

If it is behind, I would go with farokh's 5m because of the shockwave, but depending on target speed this could do little damage.
If it is in front, then 12m, as mdore suggested shrapnel spreading.
If it is to the side than 5m again, as 12m shot would have shrapnel fly behind a target (taking 60 degree shrapnel cone)

Of course the more I typed the more I felt it has nothing to do with the warhead, maybe it is a trick question. Then maybe Im just getting paranoid. smile
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/27/13 02:48 PM

Originally Posted By: Vympel
I would guess it depends on position of missile detonation in relation to target position, is it infront, behind, or to the side/up/down.

If it is behind, I would go with farokh's 5m because of the shockwave, but depending on target speed this could do little damage.
If it is in front, then 12m, as mdore suggested shrapnel spreading.
If it is to the side than 5m again, as 12m shot would have shrapnel fly behind a target (taking 60 degree shrapnel cone)

Of course the more I typed the more I felt it has nothing to do with the warhead, maybe it is a trick question. Then maybe Im just getting paranoid. smile


The question refers to approaching targets.

You are right , it has nothing to do with the warhead but with the proximity fuse .

Proximity fuse is energized with k3 and always in a standard and fixed way (receive certain number of frequency returns from the target).

In our case the position of the target in relation to the axis of the missile is the KEY.
The missile ,if the target is inside the 60 deg of proximity fuse,should detonate always in a fixed distance .

In first missile we have 5 m detonation (miss) distance which means the target was out of the expected window of proximity fuse and some how the missile get much closer of the expected optimum position and then received the required returns from the target and detonates.During this the missile maneuver and forced for better position and so the probability (parameters) for a kill ,is lower.

The second missile performed much better than the first one. It acquired the target with prox.fuse in optimum range and so it is expected a better kill probability.

Conclusion .
The closer is not always the better when there is a directional warhead .

Thanks for your participation .
smile2

Posted By: Mdore

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/30/13 07:28 AM

SA-8 in use in Syria!!!
Posted By: montieris

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/30/13 12:08 PM

Great find!
Posted By: piston79

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/30/13 01:48 PM

Originally Posted By: Mdore
SA-8 in use in Syria!!!


They claim they shot down a helicopter....
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/30/13 02:58 PM

The carat view is not from original sa 8.Look like firing at night.The cross hair is different.May be an upgrade.
The target is not an helicopter because in this range (estimation from missile flight time is less than 6 km) should be seen clearly.
For me looks like training activity ...

Update.
Could be a Syrian OSA AK with upgrade Carat.
See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fkOJCCbjWM&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Posted By: piston79

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/30/13 03:58 PM

Google translator:

Quote:
Syria Islamic Liberation Front - the banner of Islam:
The praise of God and the bounty for the first time in Syria, targeting Assad Army aircraft by the USA Russian-made system which has been grasped and developed by the banner of Islam in the region of Eastern Gota shown by imaging radar screen Alawsa cart.
Have been confirmed killed both the pilot Colonel Nizar Ghanem and handsome pilot Capt. Rajab and Capt. Almkaniki and Qusay, were named in the helicopter that crashed near Damascus International Airport.
To follow the news network Nora News
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/30/13 04:35 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Google translator:

Quote:
Syria Islamic Liberation Front - the banner of Islam:
The praise of God and the bounty for the first time in Syria, targeting Assad Army aircraft by the USA Russian-made system which has been grasped and developed by the banner of Islam in the region of Eastern Gota shown by imaging radar screen Alawsa cart.
Have been confirmed killed both the pilot Colonel Nizar Ghanem and handsome pilot Capt. Rajab and Capt. Almkaniki and Qusay, were named in the helicopter that crashed near Damascus International Airport.
To follow the news network Nora News


So you are convinced that the this video is from the described activity ?

My remarks still stand.Please convince me for the opposite .



Posted By: Mdore

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/30/13 04:48 PM

Claims of rebel groups and the Syrian army, are frequently embellished. Treat what they say sceptically.

Though ePap, the display says "WFOV" in some parts of the video. That probably stands for WIDE Field Of View. So not maximum zoom.

Maybe they shot a helicopter, or maybe not. I don't know.
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/30/13 04:57 PM

I have seen a lot of arial targets in practice firing places.Looks like the same .
Small cheap arial drones,may be.

Russian helicopters are really huge...
Posted By: piston79

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/30/13 05:02 PM


Quote:
So you are convinced that the this video is from the described activity ?


Just translate the description of the video....

Quote:
My remarks still stand.Please convince me for the opposite .


Why?

All I saw is a bright dot, slight off the crosshair (upper-left corner)....
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/30/13 05:10 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79

Quote:
So you are convinced that the this video is from the described activity ?


Just translate the description of the video....

Quote:
My remarks still stand.Please convince me for the opposite .


Why?

All I saw is a bright dot, slight off the crosshair (upper-left corner)....


Sorry.
I took it as a proof of authenticity . yep
Posted By: farokh

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/30/13 05:21 PM

piston79 @
Epop is right !

this notice that wrote under the link is lie !
yes syrian rebels shot down one helicopter but not with sa-8 !

syrian rebels right now is under training for defense against assad fighter !
but they are not ready for hunt rel plane !!!!!

trust me.... they wrote something lie about it
and you translate something fake for us ....
jackolantern
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/30/13 05:50 PM

I miss some lamps on this video...



Missile launch is at 00:15s, and detonation is at 00:28s.
Missile flight time is approx 13s.
Target should be at approx ~6km.

F-4 Phantom sized target at 6km:



Looking their infra camera cross-hair size, they were in narrow mode.
The target on that video is sized as a small RC plane with a flare.
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/30/13 06:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp



Missile launch is at 00:15s, and detonation is at 00:28s.
Missile flight time is approx 13s.
Target should be at approx ~6km.


hpasp would u sent some detail about osa missile ?
of course not some details like wikipedia or other websites !

some details like other missiles info in samsim doc
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/30/13 06:36 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: Hpasp

Click to reveal..


Missile launch is at 00:15s, and detonation is at 00:28s.
Missile flight time is approx 13s.
Target should be at approx ~6km.


hpasp would u sent some detail about osa missile ?
of course not some details like wikipedia or other websites !

some details like other missiles info in samsim doc


I can assure you, that the OSA sim will have the same quality documentation, as the earlier systems used to have.
As the original OSA training material was already linked here, describing the missile in 10 pages, I do not really understand your request...
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/30/13 06:44 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: ePap

BUT the PS has already answered to you with pm long time ago.


im sorry epap nope my memory is little weak biggrin i forget everything after pass a little time biggrin
like a fish

any way :

with this advice .... we will have better info to choose better answer

Click to reveal..
OSA doesn't have radius because the warhead blast is 60deg. Conical shape.

jackolantern


Dear Hpasp

Take under consideration the above ... smile2
Posted By: Lieste

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/30/13 07:11 PM

It seems improbable that the warhead fires in a solid cone of 60 degree semi-angle (or full angle). Looking at the shape of the warhead section it *looks* like it is designed to give a fairly wide beam of fragments, someway ahead of the beam position. (probably centred on or slightly ahead of 30 degrees from the beam - which also seems to be the indication from the diagram posted earlier...).

I'd be very, very surprised by a 'solid cone', rather than a lateral band (hollow cone) type detonation pattern, although there does seem to be a significant tapering of the front of the warhead to shape the band away from a 'pure' lateral pattern. (as there is with an artillery shell, but it makes little difference to the main fragment 'spray' being concentrated into a slightly forward of beam 'hollow conical pattern').

There may be a double 'solid cone' effect if the fusing and fragmentation is focussed by initiation and timing to 'shape' the fragment pattern from a circular to an 8 shaped pattern about the missile axis but I've not seen anything to support or reject that possibility.

It would be extraordinarily unusual to have an 'axial' fragment pattern (as far as I am aware anyway) for a proximity fused warhead. They tend to be either 'beam' or 'generalised' patterns in most cases I am aware of.

There are a few contact only warheads with shaped charge warheads of course (the ultimate axial warhead), and it isn't uncommon for air-air missiles to use 'shaping' of the 'beam' fragmentation to concentrate the dense portion(s) to include the plane of the detected 'target', at the expense of less dense regions between.
Posted By: piston79

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/30/13 08:37 PM

Originally Posted By: Mdore


Though ePap, the display says "WFOV" in some parts of the video. That probably stands for WIDE Field Of View. So not maximum zoom.



If so, it could be a helicopter.... There is a moment when they put some brightness and it appears a black silhouette on the screen.... We could try to calculate the size of the target, just a nice snap shot is needed....
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/31/13 09:13 AM

Originally Posted By: ePap
The carat view is not from original sa 8.Look like firing at night.The cross hair is different.May be an upgrade.
The target is not an helicopter because in this range (estimation from missile flight time is less than 6 km) should be seen clearly.
For me looks like training activity ...

Update.
Could be a Syrian OSA AK with upgrade Carat.
See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fkOJCCbjWM&feature=youtube_gdata_player


Update No 2.

The elevation angle of TTR is at least 60 deg (the missile is pop up from the screen well below).
The estimated range is ~6 km (from flight time ).
The target is head on (from the trace of the flight path).
From all the above there is no chance to see it in PPI (very close and very high).

Also a have doubts if there is a valid lock (no indications in video for that and target not centered to crosshair).

Most probably the target is locked well out of this range ,at least from 15 km and tracked and fired at 7-6 km.

All the above drives my to say that this video is from training firing activity (target drone )
Also it is strange that 4 missiles are loaded (seems training activity) .
Posted By: farokh

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/31/13 09:28 AM

i told u guys
biggrin

this video notice is lie !
they fired on one drone but they wrote that we shot down a helicopter rofl

Ps: this information that wrote under the link of video by siryan rebels channel is a kind of Psychological warfare
something fired on KARAT and boom !!!! and wrote that we shot down the chopper ? so what the hell
jackolantern
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/31/13 02:07 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: Mdore


Though ePap, the display says "WFOV" in some parts of the video. That probably stands for WIDE Field Of View. So not maximum zoom.



If so, it could be a helicopter.... There is a moment when they put some brightness and it appears a black silhouette on the screen.... We could try to calculate the size of the target, just a nice snap shot is needed....


I checked the video frame-by-frame, but not seen the target.
If you can provide the screenshot, I can calculate its size.
Posted By: Hpasp

OSA work in progress update... - 07/31/13 02:25 PM

During the last weeks, I spent my time learning about these:

Strela-1M (SA-9B)
Strela-10M (SA-13)



So beside spending my summer holiday biggrin , I not touched the SAMSIM code at all.
Posted By: Mdore

Re: OSA work in progress update... - 07/31/13 03:31 PM

What kind of warhead do systems like the SA-9 and SA-13 have? An annular blast warhead?
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: OSA work in progress update... - 07/31/13 04:16 PM

Originally Posted By: Mdore
What kind of warhead do systems like the SA-9 and SA-13 have? An annular blast warhead?


Strela-10 manual can be found here:

http://www.steelbeasts.com/Downloads/p13_sectionid/320/p13_fileid/1851

Description of 9M37 and 9M37M missiles (SA-13) can be found from page 15..40
Description of 9M31M missile (SA-9B) can be found from page 41..43
Posted By: piston79

Re: OSA work in progress update... - 07/31/13 04:26 PM

It is for members only....
Posted By: Lieste

Re: OSA work in progress update... - 07/31/13 04:49 PM

You should own it, and be a member already... wink


Though site membership is free and non-conditional on using the software, though it is IMO the best armour and combined arms simulation available. Arma does infantry centric, small scale actions better, but sucks with vehicles.
Posted By: Hpasp

OSA work in progress update... - 07/31/13 05:51 PM

Killing target using Karat only...

Posted By: piston79

Re: OSA work in progress update... - 07/31/13 05:58 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Killing target using Karat only...


You should add some smoke trail behind the target, as KARAT is also an instrument of target damage assessment...
Posted By: piston79

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/31/13 06:12 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap

Update No 2.

The elevation angle of TTR is at least 60 deg (the missile is pop up from the screen well below).
The estimated range is ~6 km (from flight time ).
The target is head on (from the trace of the flight path).
From all the above there is no chance to see it in PPI (very close and very high).



It should be at > 5 km altitude (if slant range is ~ 6 km and elevation > 60 degrees)....
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/31/13 08:04 PM

But great thing is that Karat display is fast thumbsup
Posted By: farokh

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 07/31/13 09:45 PM

karat is a good hobby ! but i prefer radar mode for working with sam systems
radar mode is very cool than every thing

i love sam systems scopes
range finder
SOC
and height finder

Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 08/01/13 04:32 AM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: ePap

Update No 2.

The elevation angle of TTR is at least 60 deg (the missile is pop up from the screen well below).
The estimated range is ~6 km (from flight time ).
The target is head on (from the trace of the flight path).
From all the above there is no chance to see it in PPI (very close and very high).



It should be at > 5 km altitude (if slant range is ~ 6 km and elevation > 60 degrees)....


OK.Let say 45 deg. Well above the ~ 32 deg of TAR search zones and the 28 deg of lift off angle.So no PPI target ,anyway...

PS: I can assure you that OSA missiles can reach 6 km height... smile2
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress update... - 08/01/13 04:33 AM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Killing target using Karat only...


You should add some smoke trail behind the target, as KARAT is also an instrument of target damage assessment...


Damage assessment mainly.
Posted By: Mdore

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 08/01/13 04:34 AM

I love the missile spirals! Also, nice wallpaper biggrin

I agree with piston79, it might be useful to see target disintegration, smoking or fire. Maybe even the pilot ejecting with a parachute!
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress update... - 08/01/13 04:37 AM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Killing target using Karat only...










+1000 thumbsup

PS: What is the goat stands for ??? rolleyes
Warhead detonation without K3 energized ? winkngrin
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: OSA work in progress update... - 08/01/13 10:14 AM

Originally Posted By: ePap


PS: What is the goat stands for ??? rolleyes
Warhead detonation without K3 energized ? winkngrin


1, You won't ever find it out.
biggrin

2, K3 was actually energized right after launch, without POMEHA switched.
(bug)
Posted By: piston79

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 08/01/13 10:15 AM

Originally Posted By: Mdore

I agree with piston79, it might be useful to see target disintegration, smoking or fire. Maybe even the pilot ejecting with a parachute!


For better performance, just a little smoke trail is enough, as more "special effects" could overload the system...
Posted By: Mdore

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 08/01/13 10:58 AM

I don't think having one parachute will overload the system, if it can already handle displaying twelve aircraft at once.
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress update... - 08/01/13 11:28 AM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: ePap


PS: What is the goat stands for ??? rolleyes
Warhead detonation without K3 energized ? winkngrin


1, You won't ever find it out.
biggrin

2, K3 was actually energized right after launch, without POMEHA switched.
(bug)


1. Creta ( NAMFI) trade mark ? Your pet may be ... rolleyes

2. I knew it... yep
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 08/01/13 11:36 AM

Originally Posted By: Mdore
I don't think having one parachute will overload the system, if it can already handle displaying twelve aircraft at once.


Most probably if the pilot will survive from the first missile he will be hit by the second missile wearing his parachute ... winkngrin

OSA firing doctrine is always,ripple two...
Posted By: max2012

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 08/01/13 03:20 PM


Question for Hpasp?

And why can't a Demo version or Beta version of the shell out well though in September as an example.
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: OSA work in progress update... - 08/01/13 07:17 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Killing target using Karat only...


You should add some smoke trail behind the target, as KARAT is also an instrument of target damage assessment...


Like this?
biggrin
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 08/01/13 07:30 PM

Originally Posted By: Mdore
I don't think having one parachute will overload the system, if it can already handle displaying twelve aircraft at once.


I will not display parachutes, as you would fire on them...
duckhunter
Posted By: piston79

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 08/01/13 07:49 PM

Or like this:



...and this fo bigger missiles:





... and this for the biggest! wink

Posted By: Mdore

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 08/02/13 07:29 AM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp

I will not display parachutes, as you would fire on them...
duckhunter


I would not! I've never even fired on the SR-71 over West Germany. I play by the rules!

But I still understand why you don't want parachutes.

Fragments from a disintegrating target and smoke? Or just smoke?
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 08/02/13 12:34 PM

Originally Posted By: Mdore
Fragments from a disintegrating target and smoke? Or just smoke?


Currently only my SUMMER HOLIDAY.
biggrin
Posted By: farokh

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 08/17/13 10:06 AM

guys

would u tell me about launch delay between per launch in OSA ?
could we launch 2 missile in parallel like sa-6 ?
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 08/17/13 03:06 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
guys

would u tell me about launch delay between per launch in OSA ?
could we launch 2 missile in parallel like sa-6 ?


You can have always, two missiles is the air,with a minimum of 4 sec launch.
Posted By: farokh

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 08/21/13 11:00 AM

guys....

could we comparing between OSA-AK and ROLAND missile system ?

witch one is better?

Posted By: Mdore

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 08/21/13 12:19 PM

More SA-8 use in Syria.



Looks like their camera has gone out of alignment :\
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 08/21/13 04:20 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
guys....

could we comparing between OSA-AK and ROLAND missile system ?

witch one is better?





1 OSA AK = +4 ROLANDs
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 08/21/13 04:38 PM

Originally Posted By: Mdore
More SA-8 use in Syria.



Looks like their camera has gone out of alignment :\



I am not convinced that this particular OSA fired .

There is no lock indication . The carat/camera is trembling (besides the ...cameraman) .

Most probably an adjacent system very close fired (searching radar of ,not to jam the firing unit) and the missile is coming from the right as is the target is maneuvering but the illuminating target is almost steady .

Still don't understand ,if this is the scenario,why not the test target in the middle of crosshair .
Posted By: piston79

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 08/21/13 06:34 PM

Is it possible that camera is damaged and not calibrated with TTR axis? ePap?
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 08/21/13 06:52 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Is it possible that camera is damaged and not calibrated with TTR axis? ePap?


Yes it is possible,but for sure this OSA is not the firing OSA.

For me is more probable the antena is in fix position waiting for firing results .

Strange for me is the camera oscillation but also the position of the target.
I saw another video with the target in the same position ,out of the center of carat.
May be the same OSA !

Strange situation.
Any ideas ?
Posted By: piston79

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 08/21/13 07:19 PM

I do not know the SA-8, but...

1. The sound of launching.... If it is another SA-8, it should be "cheek-to-cheek" with this one....
2. The camera is in NFOV (narrow field of view) and the target is in 270-360 degrees quadrant of the screen (away of the crosshair), I believe on the previous video, the target was there too, but closer (WFOV)....
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 08/21/13 07:39 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
I do not know the SA-8, but...

1. The sound of launching.... If it is another SA-8, it should be "cheek-to-cheek" with this one....
2. The camera is in NFOV (narrow field of view) and the target is in 270-360 degrees quadrant of the screen (away of the crosshair), I believe on the previous video, the target was there too, but closer (WFOV)....


1. Yes.cheek to cheek,that's why TAR is not radiating (PPI sweep is steady) in order not to interfere/jam the firing one,I guess...
2. You are right.

Strange also why the operator switch off the camera just after firing.It's not normal ...
Posted By: Mdore

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 08/22/13 05:59 AM

Farokh, I don't know much about the Roland missile system. The information I looked up seems to show the Roland is slower and has shorter range than the Osa.

The Roland seems to be more similar to the Tunguska, minus the guns. Both the Roland and Tunguska have 8km range, both fly at about mach 1.6, and both use "command to line-of-sight guidance"
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 08/22/13 10:15 AM

Originally Posted By: Mdore
Farokh, I don't know much about the Roland missile system. The information I looked up seems to show the Roland is slower and has shorter range than the Osa.

The Roland seems to be more similar to the Tunguska, minus the guns. Both the Roland and Tunguska have 8km range, both fly at about mach 1.6, and both use "command to line-of-sight guidance"


1 OSA AK =+4 Roland .
Simple maths...

PS: Roland in photo is Roland 1(range ~6 km).
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 08/22/13 01:14 PM

Quiz

Why 1 OSA AK = ~ 4 ROLANDs ?

Question especially to Farouk who asked .
Posted By: farokh

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 08/22/13 01:56 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
Quiz

Why 1 OSA AK = ~ 4 ROLANDs ?

Question especially to Farouk who asked .



this is hard question... because i dont know nothing anout roland but...

OSA missile speed is aprox 2.5 mach and roland missile speed around 1.5 ! this is big point !
and maybe osa target calculator parameters is so faster than roland..
and the other side ... OSA SOC have longest detect range than roland
at the end ... OSA armed with 6 missiles silo and roland i think that maximum overload is 4 missiles
as mdore@ wrote : these 2 using one method ! CLOS !
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 08/22/13 02:03 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: ePap
Quiz

Why 1 OSA AK = ~ 4 ROLANDs ?

Question especially to Farouk who asked .



this is hard question... because i dont know nothing anout roland but...

OSA missile speed is aprox 2.5 mach and roland missile speed around 1.5 ! this is big point !
and maybe osa target calculator parameters is so faster than roland..
and the other side ... OSA SOC have longest detect range than roland
at the end ... OSA armed with 6 missiles silo and roland i think that maximum overload is 4 missiles
as mdore@ wrote : these 2 using one method ! CLOS !


It is not so complex.

Just maths.You have the range of both systems.

Well,why 1 OSA =~4 ROLANDs ?
Posted By: Lieste

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 08/22/13 04:09 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: ePap
Quiz

Why 1 OSA AK = ~ 4 ROLANDs ?

Question especially to Farouk who asked .



this is hard question... because i dont know nothing anout roland but...

OSA missile speed is aprox 2.5 mach and roland missile speed around 1.5 ! this is big point !
and maybe osa target calculator parameters is so faster than roland..
and the other side ... OSA SOC have longest detect range than roland
at the end ... OSA armed with 6 missiles silo and roland i think that maximum overload is 4 missiles
as mdore@ wrote : these 2 using one method ! CLOS !


It is not so complex.

Just maths.You have the range of both systems.

Well,why 1 OSA =~4 ROLANDs ?


I think your implication is that the range is 2x, and area 4x... but I'm not sure that ADA works quite like that... I'd assume more of a barrier than an areal coverage... so the effectiveness would be only a little better than 2x. For a point defense ~ it may even be less significant than that if the attacking aircraft can be engaged successfully before they reach weapon release point, and there is no difference against stand-off weapons that can be launched from outside the coverage of the larger system which are aimed at the 'protected' main target...
Posted By: ePap

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 08/22/13 04:50 PM

Originally Posted By: Lieste
Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: ePap
Quiz

Why 1 OSA AK = ~ 4 ROLANDs ?

Question especially to Farouk who asked .



this is hard question... because i dont know nothing anout roland but...

OSA missile speed is aprox 2.5 mach and roland missile speed around 1.5 ! this is big point !
and maybe osa target calculator parameters is so faster than roland..
and the other side ... OSA SOC have longest detect range than roland
at the end ... OSA armed with 6 missiles silo and roland i think that maximum overload is 4 missiles
as mdore@ wrote : these 2 using one method ! CLOS !




It is not so complex.

Just maths.You have the range of both systems.

Well,why 1 OSA =~4 ROLANDs ?


I think your implication is that the range is 2x, and area 4x... but I'm not sure that ADA works quite like that... I'd assume more of a barrier than an areal coverage... so the effectiveness would be only a little better than 2x. For a point defense ~ it may even be less significant than that if the attacking aircraft can be engaged successfully before they reach weapon release point, and there is no difference against stand-off weapons that can be launched from outside the coverage of the larger system which are aimed at the 'protected' main target...


It is not my implication.Is how ADA systems work in space of 3d or the calculation in the power of 3 in order to find the volume of area that protect .

Compare the range of OSA/Roland 6,3/10,3

The above is the main (but not the only) factor that presents the relative fire power of an ADA system.
Posted By: farokh

Re: OSA work in progress screenshots... - 08/29/13 05:42 PM

HPASP...would you add another video from sa-8 in samsim ???
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 09/08/13 08:45 AM

Cessna flyby...

Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 09/08/13 11:40 AM

Nice !!!

What about for a F-16 ? rolleyes
Posted By: max2012

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 09/08/13 12:32 PM


Super Window see Visual Basic Code Is very good I would like to see the code.

Well Done Hpasp!

What you showed the code window of Visual Basic.

I would like to see how you make the program.
Posted By: Mdore

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 09/09/13 06:28 AM

I doubt many Cesna's could get 4km away from an SA-8


Nice to have another progress report! Thank you Hpasp!
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 09/09/13 02:59 PM

Incoming RM target in Ashuluk...

Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 09/15/13 04:46 PM

Incoming chopper expected...
thumbsup
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 09/15/13 05:25 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Incoming chopper expected...
thumbsup


Hope with not so long contrail... wink
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 09/15/13 06:23 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Incoming chopper expected...
thumbsup


BINGO fuel ...

No EW for chopper yet .

Need refuel,or wait ... smile2

PS (QUIZ) : how much time an OSA AK can be in full operation mode with it's owne fuel ?
Posted By: montieris

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 09/15/13 07:18 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap


PS (QUIZ) : how much time an OSA AK can be in full operation mode with it's owne fuel ?


If Osa has full tank (250km range with 70L/100km consumtion on road, with 2h stationary transmit on mode) = ~ 200 - 250 liters of fuel.

Then 9I120 gas turbine produces 50kw power and consumes 67kg/h of fuel when on move or stationary. = 3-3.5h
or 35kW and 20kg/h of fuel when stationary (using main diesel engine and generator as c-75). = 24h


Have i won? biggrin
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 09/15/13 07:31 PM

Originally Posted By: montieris
Originally Posted By: ePap


PS (QUIZ) : how much time an OSA AK can be in full operation mode with it's owne fuel ?


If Osa has full tank (250km range with 70L/100km consumtion on road, with 2h stationary transmit on mode) = ~ 200 - 250 liters of fuel.

Then 9I120 gas turbine produces 50kw power and consumes 67kg/h of fuel when on move or stationary. = 3-3.5h
or 35kW and 20kg/h of fuel when stationary (using main diesel engine and generator as c-75). = 24h


Have i won? biggrin


Fuel tank capacity ~300 lt

Consumption when use GTO (turbine) is ~75 lt/h (stationary) and 100 lt/h (on the move).
Consumption when use GOM (main engine) is ~25 lt/h.(only on stationary position).

Half of the 300 lt are always remain for use for the  move of the vehicle.

So when the fuel Gage shows half,you request refueling .


So,yes you won as good manual reader.

But as an operator you fail because you do not manage spare fuel for the movement of your vehicle ... winkngrin

PS: What is the attached photo? I guess a power converter ?

Posted By: montieris

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 09/15/13 08:24 PM

Thanks for correction!
--
If i correctly googled by reference id; its gas turbine block, may be wrong.
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 09/15/13 08:32 PM

Originally Posted By: montieris
Thanks for correction!
--
If i correctly googled by reference id; its gas turbine block, may be wrong.



It is not a correction.
I bit of experience and
2 bits of humor ... smile2
........
Definitely it is not from OSA AK/akm, maybe from another system .
Posted By: Comrade_Hedgehog

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 09/16/13 09:01 AM

300 liters doesn't go very far does it?
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 09/16/13 11:29 AM

Originally Posted By: Comrade_Hedgehog
300 liters doesn't go very far does it?


400 km ,more or less.

Don't forget that there is a supply vehicle for every two OSA AK vehicles,for fuel and missiles,always together .
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 09/18/13 06:28 PM

Quiz.

What kind of fuel can be used by OSA AK ?
Posted By: apostolos

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 09/18/13 07:13 PM

hi to all and congrats for sa-8 sim .im also a sa-8 user we have them in my country in full usage.
the diesel engine burns diesel-petrol and i can assure you it burns any type.the jet generator burns diesel also but its a jet power generator in need can burn anything smile 330 +,- 10 liters and the jet consumes 69 liters per hour.also there is another option for power.you can connect a generator to the vehicle gearbox and produce power.the system needs 218-230 and 400hz.the power sources are &#915;&#927;&#924;-&#915;&#932;&#913; AND THE ABOVE GENBERATOR IS NOT SA-8 .
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 09/18/13 08:07 PM

Originally Posted By: apostolos
hi to all and congrats for sa-8 sim .im also a sa-8 user we have them in my country in full usage.
the diesel engine burns diesel-petrol and i can assure you it burns any type.the jet generator burns diesel also but its a jet power generator in need can burn anything smile 330 +,- 10 liters and the jet consumes 69 liters per hour.also there is another option for power.you can connect a generator to the vehicle gearbox and produce power.the system needs 218-230 and 400hz.the power sources are &#915;&#927;&#924;-&#915;&#932;&#913; AND THE ABOVE GENBERATOR IS NOT SA-8 .


Welcome my friend.

You are quiet right to your answers.
You are Samsim user of OSA or a real one ?

Ps: OSA burns all kind of fuels,even orange juice ... smile2
Posted By: montieris

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 09/19/13 11:49 AM

Originally Posted By: ePap

Ps: OSA burns all kind of fuels,even orange juice ... smile2


Great way for commander to demotivate / punish soldiers for mistakes; by taking away dinner juice and pouring into tank. smile

Btw, how are eating time organised in wartime scenario?
UAZ arrives with cans and handles food inside OSA?
Posted By: apostolos

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 09/19/13 12:09 PM

IM NOT SAMSIM USER i cant tell you more.as far for food during war time scenario theres no eating sleeping
the osa crews must work hard in order not to get seen by enemy.if theres time you can sleep and eat everywhere even inside vehicle.
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 09/19/13 01:44 PM

Originally Posted By: montieris
Originally Posted By: ePap

Ps: OSA burns all kind of fuels,even orange juice ... smile2


Great way for commander to demotivate / punish soldiers for mistakes; by taking away dinner juice and pouring into tank. smile

Btw, how are eating time organised in wartime scenario?
UAZ arrives with cans and handles food inside OSA?


You can also prepare your food,just aim the tracking radar towards the food cans and as a microwave oven , in 5 min, you have your meal well cooked with so much radiation energy ... smile2

Eating schedule as follows (in local time)
Breakfast 08:00
Launch 13:00
Dinner 20:00
biggrin
Posted By: Comrade_Hedgehog

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 09/19/13 02:52 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: montieris
Originally Posted By: ePap

Ps: OSA burns all kind of fuels,even orange juice ... smile2


Great way for commander to demotivate / punish soldiers for mistakes; by taking away dinner juice and pouring into tank. smile

Btw, how are eating time organised in wartime scenario?
UAZ arrives with cans and handles food inside OSA?


You can also prepare your food,just aim the tracking radar towards the food cans and as a microwave oven , in 5 min, you have your meal well cooked with so much radiation energy ... smile2

Eating schedule as follows (in local time)
Breakfast 08:00
Launch 13:00
Dinner 20:00
biggrin


With the M1 Abrams the crew jams an ammo can in the rear grill.
2 mins @ 800 Deg C = tasty. smile
Posted By: Mdore

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 10/15/13 07:16 AM

This forum seems very quiet recently. So here's a video I found.

Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 10/15/13 11:46 AM

OSA akm firing SAMAN target drone missile (red one) ... smile2
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 10/15/13 12:54 PM

guys....

t/t guidance method in osa is likely fully to t/t command guided in sa-2 and sa-3 ?
or these are different!??
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 10/15/13 04:46 PM

OSA use 4 type of guidance method, depending on the target parameters.
- T/T
- Gorka
- N
- Fi
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 10/15/13 05:18 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
OSA use 4 type of guidance method, depending on the target parameters.
- T/T
- Gorka
- N
- Fi


GORKA is the ZOOM CLIMB METHOD ?
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 10/15/13 05:25 PM

High flying targets (T/T)
Epsilon > 00-30

Low flying targets (Gorka, Fi)
Epsilon <= 00-30

Fi -> against helicopters
Gorka -> all other low targets

Jamming targets (N)
N -> no range information
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 10/15/13 05:53 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
High flying targets (T/T)
Epsilon > 00-30

Low flying targets (Gorka, Fi)
Epsilon <= 00-30

Fi -> against helicopters
Gorka -> all other low targets

Jamming targets (N)
N -> no range information


N method also belongs to Low flying targets .

All the above methods are refered on how the computer see the target in the elevation plane.

Also there is the Aid tracking mode (semiautomatic mode) which can be used in Fi method and in N method .
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 10/17/13 07:11 AM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
OSA use 4 type of guidance method, depending on the target parameters.
- T/T
- Gorka
- N
- Fi


hpasp ... why in this system n method used for anti jamming target ?
why tt method used for high alt target ?
n method works like three point right ?

and .... methods choose by manual or automatic by computer ?
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 10/17/13 09:57 AM

All guidance methods, are based on T/T guidance.
Gorka/N/Fi just add some elevation to the missile flightpath.
(similarly as K adds elevation to UPR)

All methods are automatically selected except N.
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 10/19/13 12:06 PM

in this video you will see the firing exercise against a low alt drone as i guess!
but here the question ! why OSA flying like semi-active missiles on air ?
OSA flying top of target head and the last moment she dive on the target !
what the hell is this guys ? is it GORKA ?

Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 10/19/13 12:14 PM

god damn guys!!
syrian rebels kill a real aircraft eek2
i guess the downed aircraft was L-39

Posted By: Mdore

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 10/19/13 12:43 PM

I posted a different copy of that video in August. But it looks like it was removed from the channel.

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3825165/Re_OSA_work_in_progress_screen#Post3825165
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 10/19/13 04:20 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
in this video you will see the firing exercise against a low alt drone as i guess!
but here the question ! why OSA flying like semi-active missiles on air ?
OSA flying top of target head and the last moment she dive on the target !
what the hell is this guys ? is it GORKA ?












First, this is not OSA AK but the upgraded OSA 1T.(new digital computer )
Second,obviously we don't know the flight path of the target drone .
Third,how the hell you can recognize that this missile trajectory looks like as a semi- active one ?There is a way to be identified ,if you don't know the system which fired it?
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 10/19/13 04:34 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap

Third,how the hell you can recognize that this missile trajectory looks like as a semi- active one ?There is a way to be identified ,if you don't know the system which fired it?



i saw semi-active missile trajectory on youtube from different sarh system lik c-200 / hawk / KUB
but sa-8 trajectory is so different ! i never saw that on missile going upper alt and then dive to the targets head ... usually diving to the targets head at the terminam phase used for semi-active just !

maybe im wrong ! rolleyes
but target flying on very very low alt!
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 10/19/13 04:42 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: ePap

Third,how the hell you can recognize that this missile trajectory looks like as a semi- active one ?There is a way to be identified ,if you don't know the system which fired it?


i saw semi-active missile trajectory on youtube from different sarh system lik c-200 / hawk / KUB
but sa-8 trajectory is so different ! i never saw that on missile going upper alt and then dive to the targets head ... usually diving to the targets head target at terminam phase used for semi-active just !

maybe i wrong ! rolleyes


That's why I wrote about the unknown flight path of target drone .
Obviously it was higher and dive to lower altitude .
Semi active missiles do not dive at terminal phase .Who told you that?
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 10/19/13 04:53 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap

Semi active missiles do not dive at terminal phase .Who told you that?


semi active missiles do not diving in terminal phase ? sicko
i read it in one iranian article about introducing sa-6 gainful
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 10/19/13 05:06 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: ePap

Semi active missiles do not dive at terminal phase .Who told you that?


semi active missiles do not diving in terminal phase ? sicko
i read it in one iranian article about introducing sa-6 gainful


Sa -6 is not the only semi active system in the world you know.

No,semi active missiles don't dive in general.
Of course if it is needed they can.
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 10/23/13 10:18 AM

what is the leftest missile ? AKM?

Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 10/23/13 11:06 AM

Saman missile.
Modified Osa missile,to be used as target drone for training firings.
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 11/05/13 05:00 PM



Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 11/05/13 05:15 PM

The worst PPI video ever saw in OSA AK !!!

Fired one missile and no hit !

I can not find a reason why Tetraedr released that video .
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 11/05/13 05:30 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
The worst PPI video ever saw in OSA AK !!!

Fired one missile and no hit !

I can not find a reason why Tetraedr released that video .


here is some question in this video....

1. after launch , missile detonate on air ?
2. why crew do not undertsand that what hapened done exactly

ps: one of them recording countinuesly of range finder screen to find the missile ! dizzy
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 11/05/13 05:43 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: ePap
The worst PPI video ever saw in OSA AK !!!

Fired one missile and no hit !

I can not find a reason why Tetraedr released that video .


here is some question in this video....

1. after launch , missile detonate on air ?
2. why crew do not undertsand that what hapened done exactly

ps: one of them recording countinuesly of range finder screen to find the missile ! dizzy


I can not understand a word of your questions !
Try again pls...
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 11/05/13 05:52 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: ePap
The worst PPI video ever saw in OSA AK !!!

Fired one missile and no hit !

I can not find a reason why Tetraedr released that video .


here is some question in this video....

1. after launch , missile detonate on air ?
2. why crew do not undertsand that what hapened done exactly

ps: one of them recording countinuesly of range finder screen to find the missile ! dizzy


I can not understand a word of your questions !
Try again pls...


ok
my question is .. why the range finder officer do not report any happend ?
when missile launch... why the crew waiting for one magic ?

missile used from self destruction ?
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 11/05/13 06:05 PM

They seem not to be military personnel and so they can do whatever they like .

Try to understand what is your question about missile but no result.Pls try again ...
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 11/22/13 05:56 PM

Yesterday firings in NAMFI by Hellenic OSA AKM.

Four missiles fired four drones "killed".





Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 11/22/13 06:17 PM

Great Pix!
Posted By: montieris

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 11/23/13 10:11 AM

Originally Posted By: ePap
Yesterday's firings in NAMFI by Hellenic OSA AKM.


Whats the purpose of sandbags between wheels?
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 11/23/13 10:38 AM

Originally Posted By: montieris
Originally Posted By: ePap
Yesterday's firings in NAMFI by Hellenic OSA AKM.


Whats the purpose of sandbags between wheels?



These are covers for protection of superstructure and the antennas from weather conditions.
Also IR camouflage nets .
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 11/30/13 03:49 PM

Quiz.

How many missiles have been fired from OSA AKM, at pic. below ?



Posted By: montieris

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 11/30/13 07:20 PM

1st canister is open(fired)
Looks like 5th canister is firing.
Maybe there is squence; 1th, 6th, 5th, 2nd, 3rd, 4th?
So my guess 3 missiles.
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 11/30/13 07:30 PM

Originally Posted By: montieris
1st canister is open(fired)
Looks like 5th canister is firing.
Maybe there is squence; 1th, 6th, 5th, 2nd, 3rd, 4th?
So my guess 3 missiles.


You guess right ! thumbsup
...but it might be a chance of a misfire of missile 1... smile2

The sequence is 1(the outer right),6(outer left),2,5,3,4 or any combination if manually selected .
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 12/14/13 07:35 AM

Quiz.

We are at NAMFI firing range for OSA AK firings.
The target drone flights with 300km/h at a high of 27 m Above Sea Level,and at 6.4 km range.
Can be hit? and why ?
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 12/16/13 05:29 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
Quiz.

We are at NAMFI firing range for OSA AK firings.
The target drone flights with 300km/h at a high of 27 m Above Sea Level,and at 6.4 km range.
Can be hit? and why ?


Well...
The tricky issue is the altitude of NAMFI firing range which is ~300m ASL.
So, only manually the target can be tracked (Fi mode).
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 12/16/13 06:48 PM

Wow, that did not come to my mind thumbsup But I was aware of some issue like this.
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 01/02/14 07:42 PM

Dear All,

Im writing the historical section of the OSA manual.
Can you please check and correct the text below...

Thanks
Hpasp


Fielding of the 9K33M2 OSA-AK
As fielding was severally delayed, most of the WarPact countries fielded the more expensive 2K12 KUB instead of the OSA-AK. According to the original plan of 59’s, for each KUB regiment, 3 OSA regiment was planned…

German Democratic Republic
5 KUB; ’76-‘83 FRR-8 Schwerin, ’77 FRR-9 Eggesin, ’78 FRR-4 Erfurt, ’79-‘87 FRR-11 Weißenfels, ’80 FRR-1 Brück, ‘83 FRR-7 Zeithain,
2 OSA; &#146;84 FRR-8 Schwerin, ’87 FRR-11 Weißenfels

Czechoslovakia
7 KUB; ’75 171.plp Rožmitál pod T&#345;emšínem, ’75 251.plp Krom&#283;&#345;íž, ’78 12.plp Mariánské Lázn&#283;, ’79 11.plp St&#345;íbro,’80 2.plp Janovice nad Úhlavou, ’83 4. plp Jihlava, ’85 9. plp Strakonice
1 OSA; ‘84 5.plp Žatec

Hungary
3 KUB; ’75-’81 7.lérak.e. Keszthely, ’77 14.lérak.e. Gy&#337;r, ’79 18.lérak.e. Nagykanizsa, ’81 18.lérak.e. Kalocsa
No OSA was ever fielded

Poland
7 KUB; ’74 75pplot Rogowo, ’74 66pplot Boleslawiec, ’77 55pplot Szczecin Podjuchy, ’77 18pplot Jelenia Gora, ’80 15pplot Go&#322;dap, ’80 69pplot Leszno, ’86 13pplot Elblag
4 OSA; ‘80 83 pplot Koszalin, ‘83 128 pplot Czerwi&#324;sk, ‘84 124 pplot Szczecin, ’87 5 pplot Gubin

Bulgaria
2 KUB; '75 97.zrp Nova Zagora, '82 77.zrp Dimitrovgrad
2 OSA; ‘82 50.zrp Boyanovo, ‘88 49.zrp Blagoevgrad

Romania
3 KUB; ’78 52ra Bucharest, ’82 51ra Craiova, ’84 53ra Medgidia
1 OSA; ‘89 ‘50ra Floresti

Yugoslavia
No OSA was ever fielded
6 KUB; ’75 149. srp Zagreb-Pleso, ’75 60.srp Zadar-Sepurine, ’76 230.srp Nis, ’78 240.srp Sarajevo-Lukavica, ’82 310.srp Kragujevac-Sumarice, ’82, 311.srp Skopje

Other user countries beside the ex Soviet States;
Angola, Algeria, Greece, India, Iraq, Jordan, Libya, Syria
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 01/06/14 11:31 AM

Bulgaria - 2 KUB, not 5...
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 01/06/14 12:38 PM

Corrected
Posted By: Vympel

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 01/08/14 09:14 AM

Yugoslavia used naval version of Osa (OSA-M) on Koni and Kotor class frigates. Montenegrin navy still uses two Kotor class vessels with osa on board.
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 01/12/14 04:25 PM

Sneak peek of the upcoming OSA-AK manual...










Posted By: max2012

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 01/12/14 07:17 PM


Super Hpasp!
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 01/17/14 08:29 PM

SA-8 bites again:
Posted By: Mdore

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 01/18/14 06:52 AM

Excellent find! I've been hoping they'd post more SA-8 footage from Syria, but I hadn't found anything new in months.
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 01/19/14 06:34 PM

Originally Posted By: Mdore
Excellent find! I've been hoping they'd post more SA-8 footage from Syria, but I hadn't found anything new in months.




Not pretty sure what they are doing, but another launch....

*EDIT:


This is rebel's SA-8 activity until today:

16.01.2014 - Mi-8/17:

Click to reveal..


21.08.2013 - Mi-8/17

Click to reveal..


30.07.2013 Mi-8:
Click to reveal..



Also two others:

1. 28.11.2013 near miss:



2. They claimed a MiG:




The upper most video is from 18.01.2014 near Damascus international airport - attack on cargo plane (it seems they missed).


The rebels claimed using some help from local PVO guys to overrun the "access code" screwy and that they used only TV guidance....

* Found on Israeli Russian Speaking forum
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 01/19/14 06:59 PM

Shooting against low flying / hovering chopper.
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 01/19/14 07:25 PM

They are shooting ? Yes.
Do they expect some result ? With this manual tracking quality : no
But still scary for the helicopter crew ...
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 01/19/14 07:52 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
They are shooting ? Yes.
Do they expect some result ? With this manual tracking quality : no
But still scary for the helicopter crew ...


In the first video they are tracking a plane, which is going to land... It looks like the plane is below 100 meters and descending... What method they used? They cannot measure the range, thus no Fi, right?
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 01/19/14 08:08 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: ePap
They are shooting ? Yes.
Do they expect some result ? With this manual tracking quality : no
But still scary for the helicopter crew ...


In the first video they are tracking a plane, which is going to land... It looks like the plane is below 100 meters and descending... What method they used? They cannot measure the range, thus no Fi, right?


They are not tracking.They try to follow the target unsuccessfully !

Normally and if the target is low and manually tracked and range less that 7 km ,the system recognize to be be in Fi mode.
No need for precise range.
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 01/19/14 08:09 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: ePap
They are shooting ? Yes.
Do they expect some result ? With this manual tracking quality : no
But still scary for the helicopter crew ...


In the first video they are tracking a plane, which is going to land... It looks like the plane is below 100 meters and descending... What method they used? They cannot measure the range, thus no Fi, right?


DID THEY REALLY USING TV ONLY?

I think their crosshair is pretty off target in first videos....? On the 16.01.2014 one the operator pointed at elevation indicator...?
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 01/19/14 08:11 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap

They are not tracking.They try to follow the target unsuccessfully !

Normally and if the target is low and manually tracked and range less that 7 km ,the system recognize to be be in Fi mode.
No need for precise range.


But how the missile knew when to descent over target if no range data?
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 01/19/14 08:19 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: ePap

They are not tracking.They try to follow the target unsuccessfully !

Normally and if the target is low and manually tracked and range less that 7 km ,the system recognize to be be in Fi mode.
No need for precise range.


But how the missile knew when to descent over target if no range data?


In this case the missile flies in a predefined path just 3 meters higher from the crosshair of carat and with the proximity fuse already energized,it is expected the target to be hit by the warhead fragments .
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 01/19/14 08:28 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: ePap
They are shooting ? Yes.
Do they expect some result ? With this manual tracking quality : no
But still scary for the helicopter crew ...


In the first video they are tracking a plane, which is going to land... It looks like the plane is below 100 meters and descending... What method they used? They cannot measure the range, thus no Fi, right?


DID THEY REALLY USING TV ONLY?

I think their crosshair is pretty off target in first videos....? On the 16.01.2014 one the operator pointed at elevation indicator...?


In my opinion the video on 16.01.2014 is from training activities and the target is tracked by the tracking radar and that's why there is target blip on elevation screen.Carat just verifies the results.

In the other video ,firing over buildings (war activity ) there is no tracking radar locked and applicable what I wrote in my previous message.
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 01/19/14 09:24 PM

Dear ePap!

If you have time, it is worthy to look careful all videos, and say what is going on (or not) for everyone of them.... Does they really used radar lock on any of them?

EDIT: The cargo plane shooting - missile flew for 26 seconds...
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 01/19/14 09:57 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Dear ePap!

If you have time, it is worthy to look careful all videos, and say what is going on (or not) for everyone of them.... Does they really used radar lock on any of them?

EDIT: The cargo plane shooting - missile flew for 26 seconds...


In videos with hit , they use the lock on target with tracking radar.
The night vision is out of alingmnet.I don't know why.
In war condition video they try to follow with the night camera their target but incorrectly and because of the misalignment there is no chance for a hit.
In that case there is no radar lock.May be in order to surprise the target (no chaff release) or radar failure .Or to force the system to go in Fi mode,which I have doubts ....
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 01/19/14 10:22 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap

In videos with hit , they use the lock on target with tracking radar.


Videos with missile detonation are more than one....
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 01/19/14 10:33 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: ePap

In videos with hit , they use the lock on target with tracking radar.


Videos with missile detonation are more than one....


I refered clearly for hits verified in the night camera.
The detonation and the hellicopter I don't know what happen .
Most probably the pilot was very very lucky but I am not convinced that is an OSA missile .It seems to me slower and not rolling.From the other side the detonation of warhead look like OSA .
Posted By: Mdore

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 01/20/14 06:07 AM

They've videos from rebels, who might not be fully trained, or might not be trained at all. Using a vehicle which they probably don't have spare parts for, or repairs.

It's to be expected that the system isn't being used very effectively.
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 01/20/14 07:19 AM

Without training, you would not be able to switch the system on.
There are lots of switches (left of the Range Officer)...
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 01/20/14 07:45 AM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Without training, you would not be able to switch the system on.
There are lots of switches (left of the Range Officer)...

Will these be simulated?
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 01/20/14 07:53 AM

In my opinion there is lack of training AND lack of technical support .
I never saw videos with a full factional OSA...
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 01/20/14 01:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Without training, you would not be able to switch the system on.
There are lots of switches (left of the Range Officer)...

Will these be simulated?


Intentionally NOT.



Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 01/23/14 04:10 PM

Hpasp ,,, could we track osa missiles movements on SOC scope or only way to tracking osa missiles is in the range finder?
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 01/26/14 01:45 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
Hpasp ,,, could we track osa missiles movements on SOC scope or only way to tracking osa missiles is in the range finder?


Yes, that's a good question... ePap, Hpasp?
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 01/26/14 03:01 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
Hpasp ,,, could we track osa missiles movements on SOC scope or only way to tracking osa missiles is in the range finder?


In the current build (pretty far from final), the missiles are not visible on the SOC.
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 01/26/14 04:28 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: farokh
Hpasp ,,, could we track osa missiles movements on SOC scope or only way to tracking osa missiles is in the range finder?


Yes, that's a good question... ePap, Hpasp?



Let's clarify first terminology.

When we refer to " track" we mean that we follow a target electronically and automatically .
Right? If so the following is the answer to farokh and piston79.
In real world the missile in flight is not seen in SOC scope.
In the range finder scope we can see the electronic response of the missile and which is automatically tracked,that means the system tracks the range of the missile and not the missile it self.
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 02/08/14 10:24 AM

2+1 SAM systems






Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/05/14 09:17 PM



is getting closer...
Posted By: montieris

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/05/14 10:55 PM

thumbsup
Posted By: Mdore

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/06/14 07:01 AM

Thanks for the news! biggrin

What parts are you working on now?
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/06/14 09:19 AM

OSA arrived to the KRIM...
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/06/14 09:28 AM

There are lot of them and they are everywhere .... smile2
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/06/14 09:37 AM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp


is getting closer...




Hpasp.
Is that a real OSA AK ?
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/06/14 09:50 AM

yes 100 per 100 thumbsup
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/06/14 09:52 AM

Originally Posted By: farokh
yes 100 per 100 thumbsup



Yes,what?
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/06/14 09:53 AM

Originally Posted By: ePap

Hpasp.
Is that a real OSA AK ?


This is the best picture I can use in the documentation, describing the antenna structure.
(probably it is an AKM)
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/06/14 09:59 AM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: ePap

Hpasp.
Is that a real OSA AK ?


This is the best picture I can use in the documentation, describing the antenna structure.
(probably it is an AKM)


The picture is very good but I have some doubts if it is from a real OSA AK.
It could be a perfect model !
Compare the Carat with real one ...
Posted By: milo11

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/11/14 07:05 PM

thumbsup
Posted By: JustUser

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/13/14 10:24 PM

Posted By: Hpasp

9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) work in progress... - 03/19/14 05:17 PM

Manual pages...





Posted By: Mdore

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) work in progress... - 03/19/14 05:42 PM

omg it's getting closer!skyisfalling

Do you have a rough ETA you can give? Or is it still "when it's ready"
Posted By: montieris

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) work in progress... - 03/19/14 07:49 PM

Great! thumbsup
Posted By: Vympel

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) work in progress... - 03/19/14 08:08 PM

How long does it take to launch a missile? I mean from the moment &#1055;&#1059;&#1057;&#1050; button is pressed until missile leaves the container? Just wondering...
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) work in progress... - 03/20/14 06:57 PM

Originally Posted By: Vympel
How long does it take to launch a missile? I mean from the moment &#1055;&#1059;&#1057;&#1050; button is pressed until missile leaves the container? Just wondering...


http://www.arms-expo.ru/049057048054124049049052052.html
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) work in progress... - 03/26/14 08:13 PM

Compilation:

Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) work in progress... - 03/26/14 08:19 PM

When you will be routinely using OSA in the SAMSIM, you will be able to have an educated opinions on these shots...
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) work in progress... - 03/27/14 03:59 PM

This topic became the first in views without an active Samsim.
Imagine what will happen when Hpasp will release OSA AK Sam sim... smile2
Posted By: Vympel

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/10/14 08:05 PM

http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthrea...3ff09ae787512a4
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/11/14 04:31 PM



Pretty good advance, from:

Click to reveal..
ou know - my friend take a part on VictorStrike2000 and 2001 in Drawsko Pomorskie trening center in Poland.

During this trening fight (whit using MILES system) american regiment Ah-64A + OH-58 Kiowa where coopereting whit MLRS battery. The target was polish air defence using non-downgraded SA-8M Gecko (now Sting" SA-8P Sting ADMS Air Defence Missile System) And what? And US fools lose whole AH-64 regiment during polish AA ambush. And thanks to not using radars in long mode (only short for directing) and very quick change of position Sa-8 lost only 2 complex for MLRS battery fire. Quite low when we consider the fact that US army "lost" in this MILES battle more then 30 Ah-64...

In next year "battle" where repeated - This time with ridiculous restrictions for Sa-8Gecko battery (fire range limited to max 2km, no using radars, 2times shorter time for MLRS battery countrfire) and what? ~4-6 Sa-8 lost and... 16 Ah-64 "killed" in this MILES battle.

And in both cases Ah-64 regiment whit MLRS COOPERATION was not able to destroy the target (mechanizated batalion). The Sa-8P not guilty Ah-64 regiment near target area. The Ah-64 was not able to using weapons because there was not able event to approach near target.

The key was using terrein for ambush and using non advanced posoration system (ex: microwave on jeep, or a small motor connected to the radio station). This, and well-trained Sa-8 crews was enought to "destroy" Ah-64 regiment during first battle, and stop during second. In both cases the target was not destroyed becouse Ah-64 regiment was not able to attack near target area.

And old Sa-8 is not Tor... It's not only example when even polish slighty downgraded WarPac AA was better then US army image...An there was more suprises - ex the same time to "Fire task" fo MLRS battery and... polish BM-21 GRAD battery (using Topaz system).


to:

Click to reveal..
Before the AH-64D entered service the US Army flew test missions against high threat ground threats (this was 1996). Eight AH-64A and six AH-64D took part in the trials.

Ground threat was 20 M1A1, 20 M2, six 2S6, two SA-8B, one SA-11, three SA-13, one SA-15, 10 SA-18 and Swedish Giraffe radar. They also used smoke, RF/IR blankets, conformal RAM camouflage netting, decoys, corner reflectors and active jammers.

The Apaches did not use the standard SEAD or artillery support (the test was to compare the two models). They flew the seven close attack and five deep attack times at night only.

AH-64A scored 75 kills and lost 28 aircraft. They also made 34 blue on blues. (friendly fire).
AH-64D scored 300 kills and lost 4 aircraft. No blue on blues.

In its doctrinal manuals the US Army acknowledges the deep strike is a high risk move. For more on 2003 action, see page 235 of this document: http://www.cgsc.edu/carl/download/csipubs/OnPointI.pdf
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/15/14 08:08 AM

hpasp... one question :

Osa-ak can engage with "tochka" ballistic missile ? sigh
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/15/14 09:43 AM

no
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/16/14 06:24 PM

hi guys...
a little exam smile






who knows 9K33M2 missile capable how many G forces in over load and why /??

16 G ?

18 G ?

20 G ?

22 G ?

more than 22 G ?


Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/16/14 06:36 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
hi guys...
a little exam smile






who knows 9K33M2 missile capable how many G forces in over load and why /??

16 G ?

18 G ?

20 G ?

22 G ?

more than 22 G ?




20,345 G if I remember well ...
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/16/14 07:10 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: farokh
hi guys...
a little exam smile






who knows 9K33M2 missile capable how many G forces in over load and why /??

16 G ?

18 G ?

20 G ?

22 G ?

more than 22 G ?




20,345 G if I remember well ...


nope epap nope think again yep
you are close
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/16/14 07:34 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: farokh
hi guys...
a little exam smile






who knows 9K33M2 missile capable how many G forces in over load and why /??

16 G ?

18 G ?

20 G ?

22 G ?

more than 22 G ?




20,345 G if I remember well ...


nope epap nope think again yep
you are close


20,348G ???
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/16/14 07:38 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap


20,348G ???


. Capable of pulling 25G epap thumbsup
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/16/14 07:55 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: ePap


20,348G ???


. Capable of pulling 25G epap thumbsup


Can you prove it ? From where did you get this information ?
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/16/14 08:15 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap

Can you prove it ? From where did you get this information ?


Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/16/14 08:20 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: ePap

Can you prove it ? From where did you get this information ?





But this is refered of fins capabilities not the missile ...

It's like the tires your car can wear.
Capable to run 240 km/h but your car can go only with 170km/h...
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/16/14 08:23 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: ePap

Can you prove it ? From where did you get this information ?





But this is refered of fins capabilities not the missile ...


realy ? blush oo dear frown
you wants to telling me that i am in wrong way at all in this subject ??? confused
so how we can calculate the capable of missile G force ? dizzy
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/16/14 08:29 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: ePap

Can you prove it ? From where did you get this information ?





But this is refered of fins capabilities not the missile ...


realy ? blush oo dear frown
you wants to telling me that i am in wrong way at all in this subject ??? confused
so how we can calculate the capable of missile G force ? dizzy


With a cheap digit calculator if you have the proper values... smile2
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/19/14 08:31 PM

Work in progress...

Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/19/14 08:39 PM

Thank you so much ... smile2
Posted By: PN79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/19/14 09:25 PM

Beautiful, Hpasp.
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/20/14 12:02 PM

we waiting hpasp wounded

Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/21/14 02:07 PM

Somewhere in Greece...

Posted By: Mdore

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/21/14 03:03 PM

A Greek Sa-8 locking onto an F-4.... hmmm, seems familiar winkngrin
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/21/14 03:20 PM

Originally Posted By: Mdore
A Greek Sa-8 locking onto an F-4.... hmmm, seems familiar winkngrin


+1 smile2
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/21/14 03:48 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Somewhere in Greece...





This area (Chios) is dangerous for planes... smile2
see the following ...if you don't beleive...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUj38PjvVSE

PS:traditional old custom for Easter time (not to shoot down airplanes...) winkngrin
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/25/14 03:45 PM

9K33M2 OSA-AK will be released next weekend.

Posted By: apelles

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/25/14 05:49 PM

Cool!
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/26/14 11:03 AM

hura hpasp notworthy
Posted By: jazjar

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/26/14 03:58 PM

I can't wait, I'm sure it will be excellent!
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/27/14 02:25 PM

Our old foe from the museum...

Posted By: Mdore

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/27/14 02:29 PM

Lookin' good!

How's the frame rate with the camera on, compared to the camera off? Does it slow things down much?
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/27/14 02:37 PM

Dear Hpasp.
Speaking about foe.
Do you intend OSA AK to be equipped with an IFF(Identification Friend or Foe) ?
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/27/14 03:23 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
Dear Hpasp.
Speaking about foe.
Do you intend OSA AK to be equipped with an IFF(Identification Friend or Foe) ?


No IFF is simulated on any systems.
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/27/14 03:36 PM

Originally Posted By: Mdore
Lookin' good!

How's the frame rate with the camera on, compared to the camera off? Does it slow things down much?


Heavily depends on HW configuration.
Framerate is the same with or without camera in my highend PC.
Posted By: Lonewolf357

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/28/14 04:32 AM

Wow, best news I heard in this year! thumbsup
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/29/14 08:59 AM

Night time shooting...

Posted By: Mdore

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/29/14 09:50 AM

More realistic night time?
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/29/14 09:55 AM

Originally Posted By: Mdore
More realistic night time?



Yes !!! thumbsup

...but some more light is need.Open up a little more the curtains.... smile2
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/29/14 10:06 AM

Originally Posted By: Mdore
More realistic night time?



Very valid comment!

When I started SAMSIM, I had to decide...

In real life, all operator stations are more darker, than it is displayed in SAMSIM.

... but SAMSIM is for civilian enthusiasts, where I would like to give the possibility to read (at least) the RUSSIAN labels, when they are learning to operate a system.

So SAMSIM panels are too bright for realtime operation...
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/29/14 10:16 AM

So why not prepare both versions (beginner or realistic) and switch them at startup with a checkbox (like a possibility of nuclear warhead or non-historical scenarios)?
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/29/14 10:20 AM

Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
So why not prepare both versions (beginner or realistic) and switch them at startup with a checkbox (like a possibility of nuclear warhead or non-historical scenarios)?


double work
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/29/14 10:32 AM

But very appreciated work :-) Double is not the right word, photos can be used only as templates, positions of buttons are the same and so the indicators....
Posted By: Mdore

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/29/14 10:36 AM

I agree. It would be nice, but it's not a priority. Realism and gameplay 1st, graphics 2nd.

Maybe one day I might create a night time mod for SAMSim. smile
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/29/14 10:39 AM

I put it on the future option lists...
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/29/14 10:54 AM

Why not a light slider ?
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/29/14 11:01 AM

Originally Posted By: Mdore


Maybe one day I might create a night time mod for SAMSim. smile


Dark inside OSA AK is always.It is not a matter day or night mode!
It is a matter what you prefer .Lights on or dark enviromemt. winkngrin
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/29/14 11:08 AM

There is always a push from the minority of expert users to add more realism, while the newcomers are keep suffering reading the Russian labels....
... I need to find a nice balance of realism vs playability vs development effort.
biggrin
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/29/14 11:14 AM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
There is always a push from the minority of expert users to add more realism, while the newcomers are keep suffering reading the Russian labels....
... I need to find a nice balance of realism vs playability vs development effort.
biggrin


Well said ! thumbsup
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/29/14 11:58 AM

Originally Posted By: Mdore
More realistic night time?



I like it very much .But :
1. Azimuth dial numbers are visible now but the range rings and sweep are too bright (in 10 minutes you will get a headache).
2. Also rotational dial with parameter lines are missing/not seen .
thumbsup
Posted By: max2012

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/29/14 02:51 PM

Hi all!

Question to Hpasp!

And which System is planned in the Simulator in addition to OSA and just how many of them will well, at least approximately.

About Jobs in Cairo as I understand not all done, many are not available they will be made or not.

About the Nights do not, me and without nights comfortable with your Simulator.

I am interested in the Mission and the error correction also new systems too.

Cairo to finish not all jobs are done, many are not active.

Mission Editor but still not bad too, to be able to configure all the parameters of the well it already I do not know probably hard.


Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/29/14 03:16 PM

Currently my focus is on the OSA.
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/29/14 07:35 PM

SAM SIMULATOR with the OSA system, will require 4Gb of RAM, minimum!!!
Posted By: Vympel

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/29/14 08:06 PM

Damn! frown

Will we be able to use it without camera? Is the requirement lower then?
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/29/14 08:52 PM

Originally Posted By: Vympel
Damn! frown

Will we be able to use it without camera? Is the requirement lower then?


You will need to invest ~40Eur in your HW.
Posted By: max2012

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/29/14 10:08 PM


Then there are 4 Gb you can hardly be obtained?

Strangely, and that 2 Gb why not pulls.

It's bad enough that a minimum of 4 GB of memory is not very good.

This should not be.
Posted By: max2012

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/29/14 10:11 PM


With 4 Gb if it is if everything would be in 3D and everywhere you can rotate his head Yes and type missile launch as a movie, then yes of course a minimum of 4 Gb.

If everything is in 3D, it would be like in the movie, then of course you need a lot of memory.
Posted By: Lieste

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/29/14 11:28 PM

4GB is not much. My old system had that, and the current is 16GB. I'm not wealthy, have a 'poverty line' income, but still can afford occasional luxury items - by planning ahead and saving small increments.
Posted By: max2012

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/30/14 12:56 AM


Now yes, but then it was very much, then 2 Gb and few people had.

16 Gb not everywhere you, only new, with the old problem of a maximum of 4 Gb or less of that.

Should this Simulator and with 2 Gb to work instead of 4 Gb.
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/30/14 08:21 AM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
SAM SIMULATOR with the OSA system, will require 4Gb of RAM, minimum!!!


what ? hpasp you create a call of duty for us ? rolleyes
4gb RAM banghead
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/30/14 08:46 AM

Guys, I think 4GB is not a problem today. Even my almost three years old notebook has i5 with 4GB (in basic configuration). On the other side, it's resolution is 1600x900 only, so for SAMSIM external monitor is needed.
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/30/14 11:58 AM

Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
Guys, I think 4GB is not a problem today. Even my almost three years old notebook has i5 with 4GB (in basic configuration). On the other side, it's resolution is 1600x900 only, so for SAMSIM external monitor is needed.


im fully agree with your opinion !
but hpasp should telling us several month ago ... not now frown
i spent all of my money ... if i knew it.. i buy one 2gb another ram for my self
Posted By: max2012

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/30/14 11:58 AM


SAM Simulator is not CoD there not as Graphics.

To make it as a single developer, CoD Hpasp little here you need a team of developers and financial support as well.

Calculation on 1280 by 1024 in the Simulator under the old monitors, such now and haven't, now 16 to 9 or 16 to 10 instead of 4 to 3.

1600 to 900 not working SAM Sim.

CoD sure works on all resolutions and graphics cooler 4 Gb of course there needs to be a minimum agree.
Posted By: Mdore

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/30/14 12:00 PM

Why does it need 4GB?
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/30/14 12:31 PM

Originally Posted By: Mdore
Why does it need 4GB?


To store the visual panorama for the KARAT camera.
(19'000 x 4'000 pixel bitmap)
Posted By: Mdore

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/30/14 01:02 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: Mdore
Why does it need 4GB?


To store the visual panorama for the KARAT camera.
(19'000 x 4'000 pixel bitmap)


19,000 x 4,000 = 76,000,000 pixels

Even if you were doing it at 32bpp that's still just 304,000,000 bytes. Just over 300MB.

I don't get why it's 4GB, unless you've missed a zero somewhere.
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/30/14 08:44 PM

SAMSIM v928 is released, including the 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) system.

http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Posted By: max2012

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/01/14 12:17 AM


Did Hpasp just great!

Improved the interface was much better and informative and is well for me my score is very good, I liked it very much.

winner dance yeah
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/01/14 07:19 AM

dear hpasp... tanks for your hard efforts notworthy
and you did a evolution in this arena thumbsup

this is my public hunt as a first serious time with OSA-ak wink

Click to reveal..
Asuluk training ground.

Practice target:
LA-17M [program-1] simulating A-4 Skyhawk

9K33M2 OSA-AK


+++++++++++++++++
00:00:04, SNR ON AIR


00:03:40, 9M33M2 Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 7km
Target azimuth: 48°
Target elevation: 6°

00:03:46, 9M33M2 Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 6km
Target azimuth: 39°
Target elevation: 7°

00:03:51, Missile exploded on Channel-1
Practice target LA-17M [program-1] simulating A-4 Skyhawk killed by SAM. (miss distance: 2m)

00:03:55, Missile exploded on Channel-2
Practice target LA-17M [program-1] simulating A-4 Skyhawk killed by SAM. (miss distance: 3m)

Total, SNR On Air Time: 4min 3sec


ps: but i have a question dear hpasp...
at compare with other systems like sa-2E and sa-5B why this system is so easy for me ?
i cant belive it ... with one click i can lock on target ! bump
why this system is so easy to work ?
Posted By: Mdore

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/01/14 08:21 AM

Nice work Hpasp!!!

I'm really impressed with the radar display. Much smoother and more realistic than before. The system seems easy to use, though I've only shot down parachute targets so far. Things might be more difficult under actual combat. But I want to master the system in peace time before I fire at targets that fire back! biggrin

Also the game takes a lot less than 4GB on my system. Maybe that's because I've only done practice missions, I'm not sure.

Edit: Okay, I've played about with it for a while now. It's pretty easy to get kills in practice, but in war, it is really difficult.

By the way, is it possible to track a jamming target with radar only? Or do you have to use the camera?
Posted By: Comrade_Hedgehog

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/01/14 12:03 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
dear hpasp... tanks for your hard efforts notworthy
and you did a evolution in this arena thumbsup

this is my public hunt as a first serious time with OSA-ak wink

Click to reveal..
Asuluk training ground.

Practice target:
LA-17M [program-1] simulating A-4 Skyhawk

9K33M2 OSA-AK


+++++++++++++++++
00:00:04, SNR ON AIR


00:03:40, 9M33M2 Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 7km
Target azimuth: 48°
Target elevation: 6°

00:03:46, 9M33M2 Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 6km
Target azimuth: 39°
Target elevation: 7°

00:03:51, Missile exploded on Channel-1
Practice target LA-17M [program-1] simulating A-4 Skyhawk killed by SAM. (miss distance: 2m)

00:03:55, Missile exploded on Channel-2
Practice target LA-17M [program-1] simulating A-4 Skyhawk killed by SAM. (miss distance: 3m)

Total, SNR On Air Time: 4min 3sec


ps: but i have a question dear hpasp...
at compare with other systems like sa-2E and sa-5B why this system is so easy for me ?
i cant belive it ... with one click i can lock on target ! bump
why this system is so easy to work ?


Is Soviet Advanced Technology Comrade!
Soviets have learned meaning of "Ergonomics" is glorious advance!

Observe Advance of T-72 compared to T-62!
Laser Range finder! Ballistic Computer! AND Auto-loader!

smile
Posted By: santy86

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/01/14 01:26 PM

Well done to Hpasp, and congrats to the whole community.
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/01/14 01:53 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: farokh
wow... what a cool bug bump
i find another one !

in ashuluk site ... the helicopter do not explode at all !!! when i send several missiles to it
helicopter do not explode duck


You need to use METHOD-FI against helos...



well... as dear hpasp and dear epep told me about choosing the OSA missiles gudance methods ...
i remember both of you said... OSA target calculator choose automaticaly methods by it self !

so why i should to set method-F1 manualy ? confused
where is the switch and button to changing the methods ? help
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/01/14 01:59 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: farokh
wow... what a cool bug bump
i find another one !

in ashuluk site ... the helicopter do not explode at all !!! when i send several missiles to it
helicopter do not explode duck


You need to use METHOD-FI against helos...



well... as dear hpasp and dear epep told me about choosing the OSA missiles gudance methods ...
i remember both of you said... OSA target calculator choose automaticaly methods by it self !

so why i should to set method-F1 manualy ? confused
where is the switch and button to changing the methods ? help


This special switch will be shown on lesson 23.
Now we are at lesson 1 ! smile2
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/01/14 02:29 PM

Or read the manual from page 25...
biggrin
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/01/14 02:35 PM

O i love 9m33m2 movement on the sky wacky


eek
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/01/14 02:45 PM

To be able to play with the OSA system using a 32bit OS, follow these recommendations...
http://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/au...ndows-XP-s.html
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/01/14 03:47 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
To be able to play with the OSA system using a 32bit OS, follow these recommendations...
http://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/au...ndows-XP-s.html


dear hpasp.... i run OSA on x86 on windows 7 without no problem ... yep

any way..

epap ... i will be happy if you say something about this after action report wave2


two phantoms dead

Click to reveal..
19:12pm 30th of June 1970
Second attack wave, against Cairo air defense.

Target:
10th Battery of the 5th Air Defense Missile Brigade

Attacking Force:
8 F-4E Kurnass
4 A-4E Ahit

9K33M2 OSA-AK


+++++++++++++++++
00:00:02, SNR ON AIR


00:08:35, 9M33M2 Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 11km
Target azimuth: 147°
Target elevation: 0°

00:08:50, Missile exploded on Channel-1
A-4E Ahit number 1 of flight-2 attacking 10th Battery of the 5th Air Defense Missile Brigade killed by SAM. (miss distance: 6m)

00:09:07, 9M33M2 Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 6km
Target azimuth: 152°
Target elevation: 1°

00:09:17, Missile exploded on Channel-2
A-4E Ahit number 2 of flight-2 attacking 10th Battery of the 5th Air Defense Missile Brigade killed by SAM. (miss distance: 5m)

00:09:41, SNR OFF THE AIR
-----------------


Total, SNR On Air Time: 9min 54sec

Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/01/14 03:53 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
To be able to play with the OSA system using a 32bit OS, follow these recommendations...
http://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/au...ndows-XP-s.html


dear hpasp.... i run OSA on x86 on windows 7 without no problem ... yep

any way..

epap ... i will be happy if you say something about this after action report wave2


two phanoms dead

Click to reveal..
19:12pm 30th of June 1970
Second attack wave, against Cairo air defense.

Target:
10th Battery of the 5th Air Defense Missile Brigade

Attacking Force:
8 F-4E Kurnass
4 A-4E Ahit

9K33M2 OSA-AK


+++++++++++++++++
00:00:02, SNR ON AIR


00:08:35, 9M33M2 Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 11km
Target azimuth: 147°
Target elevation: 0°

00:08:50, Missile exploded on Channel-1
A-4E Ahit number 1 of flight-2 attacking 10th Battery of the 5th Air Defense Missile Brigade killed by SAM. (miss distance: 6m)

00:09:07, 9M33M2 Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 6km
Target azimuth: 152°
Target elevation: 1°

00:09:17, Missile exploded on Channel-2
A-4E Ahit number 2 of flight-2 attacking 10th Battery of the 5th Air Defense Missile Brigade killed by SAM. (miss distance: 5m)

00:09:41, SNR OFF THE AIR
-----------------


Total, SNR On Air Time: 9min 54sec



OSA AK is a f-4 killer ... smile2
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/01/14 06:13 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
O i love 9m33m2 movement on the sky wacky

Click to reveal..

eek


Do you know, why the missile is spiralling, during flight?
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/01/14 06:36 PM

SAMSIM v928.1 is released.

http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

- fixing Benghazi missile load
- other small cosmetic issues
- adding ePap's favourite real-life target

Posted By: max2012

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/01/14 06:57 PM


In the training tell me, where is the target?

On the screen I have seen them do, how to find them.

Stealth why is made and where he can knock down or it's as simple as that.
Posted By: max2012

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/01/14 07:03 PM


The question is now 0.928.1 the latest version, the question is not is another example can tomorrow 928.2

Should I now download if tomorrow maybe 928.2

This is not the final 928.1 still may be tomorrow or in a couple of days of 928.2

Or is my question?
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/01/14 07:04 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp


- adding ePap's favourite real-life target




A-7??????
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/01/14 08:54 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
dear hpasp... tanks for your hard efforts notworthy
and you did a evolution in this arena thumbsup

this is my public hunt as a first serious time with OSA-ak wink

Click to reveal..
Asuluk training ground.

Practice target:
LA-17M [program-1] simulating A-4 Skyhawk

9K33M2 OSA-AK


+++++++++++++++++
00:00:04, SNR ON AIR


00:03:40, 9M33M2 Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 7km
Target azimuth: 48°
Target elevation: 6°

00:03:46, 9M33M2 Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 6km
Target azimuth: 39°
Target elevation: 7°

00:03:51, Missile exploded on Channel-1
Practice target LA-17M [program-1] simulating A-4 Skyhawk killed by SAM. (miss distance: 2m)

00:03:55, Missile exploded on Channel-2
Practice target LA-17M [program-1] simulating A-4 Skyhawk killed by SAM. (miss distance: 3m)

Total, SNR On Air Time: 4min 3sec


ps: but i have a question dear hpasp...
at compare with other systems like sa-2E and sa-5B why this system is so easy for me ?
i cant belive it ... with one click i can lock on target ! bump
why this system is so easy to work ?


Basically the OSA is the pinnacle of the analogue (using mechanically steered antennas) Cold War SAM system development...
... all systems after it (SA-10/11/12 ...) had digital phase modulated radar arrays and computers.

PS: with the Patriot, you never acquire/track a target, it is done completely automatically...
... you just arrange the targets into the TBEQ (Targets To Be Engaged Queue).
Launcher - missile - guidance method - radio proxy fuse settings, and actual launch command is completely automatic.
Instead of fighting a battle, you are just managing it...


Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/01/14 08:59 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: farokh
O i love 9m33m2 movement on the sky wacky

Click to reveal..

eek


Do you know, why the missile is spiralling, during flight?


its a bit hard question... but i guess when the missile launched
the 9m33m2 missile trying to reach best degree for explosive ! hum?
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/01/14 09:09 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
SAMSIM v928.1 is released.

http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

- fixing Benghazi missile load
- other small cosmetic issues
- adding ePap's favourite real-life target




Thank you so much,again ... thumbsup
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/01/14 09:13 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: Hpasp


- adding ePap's favourite real-life target




A-7??????


Yes,from tenths of mutual exercises ....
Posted By: Muggs

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/01/14 09:42 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: farokh
O i love 9m33m2 movement on the sky wacky

Click to reveal..

eek


Do you know, why the missile is spiralling, during flight?


Is it because the missile only has control surfaces in one plain?

Edit: from reading the manual..no. I wondered if it was similar to Ka-50s Vikhr missile.

Thanks for the work you do on the SAMSIM, as always thumbsup
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/02/14 04:23 AM




[/quote]


....with such a nice photo from Patriot next SAMSIM Air Defence system could be Patriot ? smile2
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/02/14 06:09 AM

Originally Posted By: ePap







this picture is very old ! we saw it in main sam simulator topic thumbsup
showing us something newer epap RTFM
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/02/14 07:06 AM

Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: ePap







this picture is very old ! we saw it in main sam simulator topic thumbsup
showing us something newer epap RTFM


Is that all ? If the the photo is old? Is this what you understand?
Why am I not surprised?

You should know that Hpasp inform us that OSA AK would not include an IFF,so it is useless to press the challenge push button ...


_________________________
let me cry cause OSA-AK still in sleep tight yet


PS: from the reception sir, this is a wake up call, OSA AK has been released ... winkngrin


Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/02/14 08:10 AM

all right Epap... lets just finish this funny subject winkngrin
continue to dodging in private msg please grrr

any way

one strange question guys ...
what do you thinking that why soviet design (tor) for itself and other friendly nations ?
as i know... OSA-AKM has got a digital calculator for itself... so as we read the OSA manual pdf ...
i can engage with 0 altitude... so this is great .. but why they design some thing like tor again ?

this 2 has got same mechanism ! rolleyes
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/02/14 09:11 AM

TOR is the OSA designed in a right way from the beginning (by Efremov), with 8 missiles (if you remember the Ustinov incident)
smile
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/02/14 10:37 AM

Still no tutorial video for SA-8 on the SAMSIM home site... nope
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/02/14 11:03 AM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Still no tutorial video for SA-8 on the SAMSIM home site... nope

why man !? you were a f3 operator .... come on why u cant work with it? sigh
osa pdf is avalible thumbsup
Posted By: max2012

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/02/14 02:10 PM

It is a pity that S-300 to make it worth while in service.

But what system is planned in the Simulator here is interesting, perhaps you can't take THOR in service, I do not know probably complex and which can still be interesting.

What Hpasp did with Greece that was good I did not expect to like this you could shoot if everywhere so it would be on all systems is very good I like it, thank you!

As I understand the priority of such Systems as possible.

About Patriot Systems it is not ours, and American, and here are all of our System, whether it is worth doing, it's also how S-300 in service with another.


Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/02/14 02:11 PM

Nice article...
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/05/02/the-flare-paths-may-day-parade/
Posted By: max2012

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/02/14 02:14 PM


Yes, that's right a very good article.
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/02/14 04:52 PM

tuturial video of OSA-AK is under proccess
with sound and with my voice yep
Posted By: max2012

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/02/14 05:16 PM


Thank you done great!
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/02/14 05:18 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
tuturial video of OSA-AK is under proccess
h sound and with my voice yep



Pity! My hope was that a REAL PROFFESIONAL (ePap) would create such one!
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/02/14 06:00 PM

http://www.ejection-history.org.uk/Country-By-Country/South_Africa.htm
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/02/14 06:04 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: farokh
tuturial video of OSA-AK is under proccess
h sound and with my voice yep



Pity! My hope was that a REAL PROFFESIONAL (ePap) would create such one!


Thanks for the credits,but Farokh deserves a try ... smile2
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/02/14 06:14 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap

Thanks for the credits,but Farokh deserves a try ... smile2


No, this is too important to be left in a hands of a civilian....
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/02/14 06:30 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: ePap

Thanks for the credits,but Farokh deserves a try ... smile2


No, this is too important to be left in a hands of a civilian....


When Hpasp will give us the capability to create complex scenarios based on real tactics and maltypleyer then it will worth to go deeper.
Now basic handling is fair enough I think but I am here to help if needed .
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/02/14 06:39 PM

tuturial video of OSA-AK has been released
PS : in this video.. i teach you first mode of several modes tracking methods [automatic target aquisition]

http://uplod.ir/a8g1pwqexjru/osa22.mp4.htm
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/02/14 07:06 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
tuturial video of OSA-AK has been released
PS : in this video.. i teach you first mode of several modes tracking methods [automatic target aquisition]

http://uplod.ir/a8g1pwqexjru/osa22.mp4.htm



Not bad at all !

Some remarks :
try to lock the target at such a range in order to get the benefits of the range of the system (tracking and missile range)
The 15km screen is for slow targets like HELOs and not with fast targets.If you do not aquier a lock earlier and the target change altitude most probably it will over run you.
So I propose a lock between 16-18km and fire 2 missiles.
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/02/14 08:12 PM

tnQ epap .. smile

i trying to lock on target between 18 and 20 km... i did it but...
i dont know why missile ready light illuminate do not be ON til 9KM ... why ?
but some time the system give access to engage from 14km !
this one is realy strange for me

ready light illuminate some times Be ON in differents range ! with same target !!!! sigh
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/02/14 08:34 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
tnQ epap .. smile

i trying to lock on target between 18 and 20 km... i did it but...
i dont know why missile ready light illuminate do not be ON til 9KM ... why ?
but some time the system give access to engage from 14km !
this one is realy strange for me

ready light illuminate some times Be ON in differents range ! with same target !!!! sigh


It is not strange at all.The heading of the target is the important factor in such cases.
In head on targets (1000-1200km/h) you expect ready to fire at14-16km.
The sim works perfect.Hpasp made great job,believe me.
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/03/14 07:46 AM

guys... what do u thinking about start one comparing between OSA-AKM and TOR-M1 ...?

this comparing is only about Ability engagement zone
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/03/14 09:52 AM

commercial teaser for OSA-AK has been released

http://uplod.ir/t6t67qhblfd6/emission.mp4.htm

enjoy
cowboy
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/03/14 10:20 AM

Can you upload it into Youtube?
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/03/14 10:39 AM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Can you upload it into Youtube?


sadly i do not have any channel on youtube nope
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/03/14 11:10 AM

Originally Posted By: farokh
commercial teaser for OSA-AK has been released

http://uplod.ir/t6t67qhblfd6/emission.mp4.htm

enjoy
cowboy


Nice video farokh,but where did you see emotion control?

Your TAR(target acquisition radar) is always on !!!

You should search for few sec and stop changing position and wait.
When in range,lock and fire.

As you can understand in real world it's not so easy.(there is no auto tracking with TOB,you have to do it manually).
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/03/14 11:34 AM

Originally Posted By: farokh
guys... what do u thinking about start one comparing between OSA-AKM and TOR-M1 ...?

this comparing is only about Ability engagement zone


OSA AK is like the wife you have and TOR M1 is like the wife you wish to have .... smile2
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/03/14 11:35 AM

Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: farokh
commercial teaser for OSA-AK has been released

http://uplod.ir/t6t67qhblfd6/emission.mp4.htm

enjoy
cowboy


Nice video farokh,but where did you see emotion control?

Your TAR(target acquisition radar) is always on !!!

You should search for few sec and stop changing position and wait.
When in range,lock and fire.

As you can understand in real world it's not so easy.(there is no auto tracking with TOB,you have o do it manually).


O dear duh
i forgot to doing OFF TAR rolleyes

of course this is our first time to work with emission control .... rolleyes
so i think my mistake is normal for us ...
tnQ epap for your advice thumbsup
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/03/14 01:40 PM

new Hollywood commercial trailer of behind enemy line IV
biggrin

with OSA-AK acting angel


http://uplod.ir/d7afhgfvje05/ufffff-18.mp4.htm


PS: this video is super !... exact after 1:40 thumbsup
Posted By: Sim

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/03/14 04:59 PM

No idea how to read squiggly to download file biggrin
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/03/14 05:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Sim
No idea how to read squiggly to download file biggrin


http://s6.uplod.ir:182/d/2k2t476d4hvhuf6txwpidid6v647y2b4r6xcbangywq6ooxecn3h3im6/ufffff-18.mp4
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/03/14 05:22 PM

dear piston79... do me favor please ?
please download my 3 videos and upload them to your youtube channel wave
Posted By: Sim

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/03/14 05:24 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
[quote=Sim]No idea how to read squiggly to download file biggrin


http://s6.uplod.ir:182/d/2k2t476d4hvhuf6txwpidid6v647y2b4r6xcbangywq6ooxecn3h3im6/ufffff-18.mp4 [/quote

404 file not found. I can upload videos to my channel, but I need them first.
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/03/14 05:26 PM

Originally Posted By: Sim
Originally Posted By: piston79
[quote=Sim]No idea how to read squiggly to download file biggrin


http://s6.uplod.ir:182/d/2k2t476d4hvhuf6txwpidid6v647y2b4r6xcbangywq6ooxecn3h3im6/ufffff-18.mp4 [/quote

404 file not found. I can upload videos to my channel, but I need them first.


No problem with me... Please, copy the link from my post and try again...
Posted By: Sim

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/03/14 05:26 PM

Also, is there no sound with OSA? Its dead silent....
Posted By: max2012

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/03/14 06:51 PM


links posted here I shook myself and watched the video.

emission

uffff-18
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/03/14 07:00 PM

Originally Posted By: Sim
Also, is there no sound with OSA? Its dead silent....

dear sim... you are an american ... cool
amrican people are clever cowboy
please download them with my guidance !


here
please choose the marked button


also you will going to this page
based on marked button .... please click on it to recieve download link



http://uplod.ir/a8g1pwqexjru/osa22.mp4.htm

http://uplod.ir/t6t67qhblfd6/emission.mp4.htm

http://uplod.ir/d7afhgfvje05/ufffff-18.mp4.htm




PS: all of 3 videos include with sound and they are not silence
also please one kind guy .... download them and upload them to youtube
and drope youtube links in here ....

Posted By: Sim

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/03/14 07:32 PM



Video #1


Video #2 (emission)

I'm not sure about #3 due to copyright....
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/04/14 08:57 AM

Hello. I have some questions about new version.
At first, Thank You for Your work. It's great simulator and I hope, what You will continue Your development, and I hope You will add another screen Resolutions.
How target can be hited by OSA if it's not Daytime or maybe fog and target jams Radar ?


OSA has 3 target tracking methods.
1, via SSC (target should be above 00-10 Imperial Russian military degrees)
2, via SSC in range, and Karat in angles
3, via Karat in angles only. (target range is guestimated using the crosshair) biggrin

If you have bad visibility, you are left with option one only.
Jamming target is usually not a problem, as 9M33M2 can pull 25g during T/T guidance, and the SSC is a monopulse design.
Posted By: Mdore

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/04/14 01:20 PM

Jamming might not be a problem in real life, but it is in SAM Sim, because there's no way to track a jamming target at night.
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/04/14 02:00 PM

Originally Posted By: Mdore
Jamming might not be a problem in real life, but it is in SAM Sim, because there's no way to track a jamming target at night.


Tracking of a noise jamming target in angle with a monopulse design (SSC) is more than easy.
Due to design, angle tracking errors are reduced by "x" magnitudes, compared to non jamming targets.

Arming the missile radio proxy fuse after launch, is a manual choice of the Firing Officer.

As the 9M33M2 can pull 25g during T/T guided flight, so target has to "do magic" to avoid hit.
Posted By: jazjar

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/04/14 04:20 PM

So is the karat capable of doing image-recognition tracking, or must the target be tracked manually referring to case #3?
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/04/14 04:20 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: Mdore
Jamming might not be a problem in real life, but it is in SAM Sim, because there's no way to track a jamming target at night.


Tracking of a noise jamming target in angle with a monopulse design (SSC) is more than easy.
Due to design, angle tracking errors are reduced by "x" magnitudes, compared to non jamming targets.

Arming the missile radio proxy fuse after launch, is a manual choice of the Firing Officer.

As the 9M33M2 can pull 25g during T/T guided flight, so target has to "do magic" to avoid hit.


as i remember sa-4 SCC has got a switch with green lamp to engage with jammer target
but OSA doesnt have any thing like this !

i check all of button an switch around SCC pannel but they doesnt work at all ...

please some one hunt a jammer in lybia
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/05/14 06:10 AM

dear hpasp... one question !
why our OSA-AK doesnt have infera red camera ???
at the nights ... we cant use TOV because we cant see anything in air at night

would u modernize it ? yep
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/05/14 09:14 AM

Originally Posted By: jazjar
So is the karat capable of doing image-recognition tracking, or must the target be tracked manually referring to case #3?


Only manually.

In Samsim it is a compromised situation (yet...) rolleyes
In stead of semi tracking (or aid tracking,so called PA mode) which actually is a manual tracking of target in real ,in Samsim we have TOB(day camera) auto tracking .
The manual tracking in Samsim is fulfilled with PY (RU) manual tracking (in real this is used only to rotate tarret in aziuth and not to follow a target !).
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/05/14 11:22 AM

dear hpasp... can u build something like this visual object for OSA TOV please ?



PS; is it infra red optic right ?
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/08/14 08:59 AM

fellas ... i have one question !!!
why in osa-ak and after that .... designer used container for hanging up missiles ???
why container ?

what happened will be done without container ? confused
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/08/14 10:17 AM

Originally Posted By: farokh
fellas ... i have one question !!!
why in osa-ak and after that .... designer used container for hanging up missiles ???
why container ?

what happened will be done without container ? confused


Extremely good question Faroukh!

You're proven fan and professional OSA master!

In fact not many simmers here appreciate hardware design from outside of SAM's...

Note, that containers are square-sided, this is because their main purpose is to prevent missiles from rolling on sloped surfaces during reload (because you knew that OSA missile has rotating fins, you,little clever guy! wink ).

So, squared containers are really important to prevent some injuries and explosions... yep
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/08/14 11:10 AM

Originally Posted By: farokh
fellas ... i have one question !!!
why in osa-ak and after that .... designer used container for hanging up missiles ???
why container ?

what happened will be done without container ? confused


1. Safety,handling and protection reasons,obviously .
2. In order to load 3 missiles (containerized) in stead of two ( w/o container)! Read the manual carefully ...
3. In order not to know what kind of missile is inside ... winkngrin
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/08/14 03:39 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: farokh
fellas ... i have one question !!!
why in osa-ak and after that .... designer used container for hanging up missiles ???
why container ?

what happened will be done without container ? confused


Extremely good question Faroukh!

You're proven fan and professional OSA master!

In fact not many simmers here appreciate hardware design from outside of SAM's...

Note, that containers are square-sided, this is because their main purpose is to prevent missiles from rolling on sloped surfaces during reload (because you knew that OSA missile has rotating fins, you,little clever guy! wink ).

So, squared containers are really important to prevent some injuries and explosions... yep


this is you kindness my friend ;)but as u know even better than me... im not a clever guy .... duh
if i was... i must went to iran defense organization thumbsup
im just a poor sam lover without any real Experience
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/08/14 04:46 PM

Faroukh ,nothing for me ? .... wave2
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/08/14 04:49 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
Faroukh ,nothing for me ? .... wave2


Nope! You've been unusually serious in your answers.... yep
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/08/14 05:00 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: ePap
Faroukh ,nothing for me ? .... wave2


Nope! You've been unusually serious in your answers.... yep


I think you are right even I tried to put some salt and pepper in No3 answer . ..
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/08/14 05:07 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap

I think you are right even I tried to put some salt and pepper in No3 answer . ..


That's because the victim developed some resistance.... Bigger dose is needed...
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/08/14 05:20 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: ePap

I think you are right even I tried to put some salt and pepper in No3 answer . ..


That's because the victim developed some resistance.... Bigger dose is needed...


smile2

...but something tells me not to...
Farouk ... wave2
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/08/14 05:33 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: ePap

I think you are right even I tried to put some salt and pepper in No3 answer . ..


That's because the victim developed some resistance.... Bigger dose is needed...


smile2

...but something tells me not to...
Farouk ... wave2


epap epap epap salute
you were a best teacher for me ... cheers
you learned to me,lot of information about the osa
I'm really jealous to your students ...
in my eyes.. you are the one of the Patient teacher in air defense arena thumbsup
i hope we can meet each other some days .... near the one OSA ... and take several pictures for Memento
reading

of course FT. piston79 dancinfools
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/08/14 05:38 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: ePap

I think you are right even I tried to put some salt and pepper in No3 answer . ..


That's because the victim developed some resistance.... Bigger dose is needed...


smile2

...but something tells me not to...
Farouk ... wave2


epap epap epap salute
you were a best teacher for me ... cheers
you learned to me,lot of information about the osa
I'm really jealous to your students ...
in my eyes.. you are the one of the Patient teacher in air defense arena thumbsup
i hope we can meet each other some days .... near the one OSA ... and take several pictures for Memento
reading

of course FT. piston79 dancinfools


Ok.ok,now back in class...

Farouk,tell me.
You see an OSA canister .What could be inside to it ? (it's not a joke ...)
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/08/14 05:51 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: ePap

I think you are right even I tried to put some salt and pepper in No3 answer . ..


That's because the victim developed some resistance.... Bigger dose is needed...


smile2

...but something tells me not to...
Farouk ... wave2


epap epap epap salute
you were a best teacher for me ... cheers
you learned to me,lot of information about the osa
I'm really jealous to your students ...
in my eyes.. you are the one of the Patient teacher in air defense arena thumbsup
i hope we can meet each other some days .... near the one OSA ... and take several pictures for Memento
reading

of course FT. piston79 dancinfools


Ok.ok,now back in class...

Farouk,tell me.
You see an OSA canister .What could be inside to it ? (it's not a joke ...)

9m33m2 or 9m33m3 missile !
popcorn
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/08/14 05:56 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh


Ok.ok,now back in class...

Farouk,tell me.
You see an OSA canister .What could be inside to it ? (it's not a joke ...)

9m33m2 or 9m33m3 missile !
popcorn [/quote]

ONLY .???
Try harder ...
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/08/14 06:21 PM

firing conection cable ? for send firing order to missile ?
or engine starter ? or missile spinner ? rolleyes
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/08/14 06:33 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
firing conection cable ? for send firing order to missile ?
or engine starter ? or missile spinner ? rolleyes


No,no,no.

You are 180deg off.It is something like missile...
Think and try again...
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/08/14 06:53 PM

Farouk,if no reply in next 5 min ,you go to manpad class ...
PS: you are looking for 3 items ... RTFM
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/08/14 07:12 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
Farouk,if no reply in next 5 min ,you go to manpad class ...
PS: you are looking for 3 items ... RTFM


i trying to finde something over internet banghead
but i couldbt finde anything

shat could be into the container with missile ???
dizzy
this is hardest question for me pitchafit
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/08/14 07:21 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
Farouk,if no reply in next 5 min ,you go to manpad class ...
PS: you are looking for 3 items ... RTFM


Any other opinion is much welcomed...
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/08/14 07:51 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: ePap
Farouk,if no reply in next 5 min ,you go to manpad class ...
PS: you are looking for 3 items ... RTFM


Any other opinion is much welcomed...


Well,time is up...

So inside an OSA canister could be :
1. A dummy missile
2. A training missile or
3. An arial drone Saman M missile...

Farouk,what is the difference between a dummy and a training missile ?
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/08/14 08:22 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: ePap
Farouk,if no reply in next 5 min ,you go to manpad class ...
PS: you are looking for 3 items ... RTFM


Any other opinion is much welcomed...


Well,time is up...

So inside an OSA canister could be :
1. A dummy missile
2. A training missile or
3. An arial drone Saman M missile...

Farouk,what is the difference between a dummy and a training missile ?


i think ... saman missile usualy used for high tactical sam systems lke TOR
for example... OSA launching a saman missile for TOR ! and TOR can kill him on air !

but about dummy missiles... i think they are real missiles without any warhead rolleyes
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/08/14 08:38 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: ePap
Farouk,if no reply in next 5 min ,you go to manpad class ...
PS: you are looking for 3 items ... RTFM


Any other opinion is much welcomed...


Well,time is up...

So inside an OSA canister could be :
1. A dummy missile
2. A training missile or
3. An arial drone Saman M missile...

Farouk,what is the difference between a dummy and a training missile ?


i think ... saman missile usualy used for high tactical sam systems lke TOR
for example... OSA launching a saman missile for TOR ! and TOR can kill him on air !

but about dummy missiles... i think they are real missiles without any warhead rolleyes


Why you wrote your story about saman and TOR ?It has something with the question what is inside the container ?
Also your answer for the dummy missile is not correct .

...farokh stay focus or I will sent you in AAA as a gunner ... smash
Posted By: Lieste

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/08/14 09:02 PM

Dummy is a simulcrum, a weighted box of the correct dimensions.

Training is a box with some features of the real weapon. Interface at least, possibly including flight systems.

This would be my usage of the terms... not sure if this exactly matches the one used in this case.



e.g. a dummy cartridge is an inert round, a blank is a training round - in the case of a conventional small arms cartridge this would be a wad and a small amount of powder. Other types of training round might include plastic or 'airsoft' type non-lethal ammunition natures for force on force training where increased realism is desired with low risk technologies (Miles etc is expensive and complex compared to this).
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/08/14 09:26 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: ePap
Farouk,if no reply in next 5 min ,you go to manpad class ...
PS: you are looking for 3 items ... RTFM


Any other opinion is much welcomed...


Well,time is up...

So inside an OSA canister could be :
1. A dummy missile
2. A training missile or
3. An arial drone Saman M missile...

Farouk,what is the difference between a dummy and a training missile ?


i think ... saman missile usualy used for high tactical sam systems lke TOR
for example... OSA launching a saman missile for TOR ! and TOR can kill him on air !

but about dummy missiles... i think they are real missiles without any warhead rolleyes

sir.. you asked me about traning and dummy missile difference !
so i answer that rolleyes

befor asking ... you must start a class for us readytoeat
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/09/14 04:10 AM

Originally Posted By: Lieste
Dummy is a simulcrum, a weighted box of the correct dimensions.

Training is a box with some features of the real weapon. Interface at least, possibly including flight systems.

This would be my usage of the terms... not sure if this exactly matches the one used in this case.



e.g. a dummy cartridge is an inert round, a blank is a training round - in the case of a conventional small arms cartridge this would be a wad and a small amount of powder. Other types of training round might include plastic or 'airsoft' type non-lethal ammunition natures for force on force training where increased realism is desired with low risk technologies (Miles etc is expensive and complex compared to this).


You are so right !
thumbsup
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/09/14 04:38 AM

Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: ePap
Farouk,if no reply in next 5 min ,you go to manpad class ...
PS: you are looking for 3 items ... RTFM


Any other opinion is much welcomed...


Well,time is up...

So inside an OSA canister could be :
1. A dummy missile
2. A training missile or
3. An arial drone Saman M missile...

Farouk,what is the difference between a dummy and a training missile ?



i think ... saman missile usualy used for high tactical sam systems lke TOR
for example... OSA launching a saman missile for TOR ! and TOR can kill him on air !

but about dummy missiles... i think they are real missiles without any warhead rolleyes

sir.. you asked me about traning and dummy missile difference !
so i answer that rolleyes

befor asking ... you must start a class for us readytoeat


...but lessons have already started !

Report to AREA 51... winkngrin
Posted By: Amazon

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/09/14 08:49 AM

Hello. How I can resolve problem with SA-8 error: Can't create autoredraw image?
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/09/14 01:18 PM

Originally Posted By: Amazon
Hello. How I can resolve problem with SA-8 error: Can't create autoredraw image?


Unfortunately OSA requires ~4GB of RAM.
If you use 32bit Windows, and have 4GB RAM, you can try this...

http://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/au...ndows-XP-s.html



... or buy more RAM and a 64bit OS.
Posted By: Vympel

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/10/14 07:45 AM

Actually Im running it just fine with 2 GB only. thumbsup
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/10/14 10:20 AM

Originally Posted By: Vympel
Actually Im running it just fine with 2 GB only. thumbsup


Win 7?
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/10/14 10:31 AM

Originally Posted By: Vympel
Actually Im running it just fine with 2 GB only. thumbsup


What Operating system?
32 or 64 bit?
Posted By: apelles

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/10/14 01:45 PM

Ditto here. 64 bit op sys with 2 gb ram.
Posted By: Mdore

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/10/14 02:01 PM

I'm running it fine too, and it's only taking 450MB for me. I assumed it was a weird side effect of me running Linux. Looks like I was wrong.
Posted By: Vympel

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/11/14 10:36 AM

Its win 7 x64.
Posted By: Migow

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/18/14 08:46 PM

hi hpasp i have many question about sa 8 akm

does sa8 use sidelobe blanking (a omnidirectionnal antenna)?
when working with mti how many pulse does it send before it can change frequency?
does it use intrapulse coding (frequency coded? phase coded?)
what's the minimal altitude before angular track become unreliable ?(100meter?)
a plane can inject early false target ( false target before the real plane) and late target?if( there is no random intrapulse modulation)
the sa8 can track no newtonian object ( helicopter with mti)?
if not it can be jammed with a jam that simulate a no newtonian object?
does it has protection against doppler velocity gate theft?( automatic recapture or AGC spoof-free?)


when enemy use noise jamming on both surveillance radar and tracking radar , is there a way to have range ?
can the enemy jam the proximity fuse(especially Under noise jamming , no range information)?
can the enemy jam the SVR ?
can the enemy jam the Missile Antenna (for SPK), is it omnidirectionnal antenna?
can the enemy jam the Monopulse Medium beam Missile Guidance Radar ?
what's the missile beacon power , i guess it use frequency hopping , does it use too the spread Spectrum?

when working without mti does it frequency hopping between each pulse?
if it is the case(without mti) a plane can't inject early false target (no false target before the real plane) only late target?
does it has protection against range gate theft?( automatic recapture or AGC spoof-free?)
does it have protection against blinking jamming ?(2 planes that jam one after other , useless i guess because the camera ?

does it use random prf against target injection?

what modulation the sa8 use?

thx for answer



Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/19/14 11:59 AM

Originally Posted By: Migow
hi hpasp i have many question about sa 8 akm

does sa8 use sidelobe blanking (a omnidirectionnal antenna)?
when working with mti how many pulse does it send before it can change frequency?
does it use intrapulse coding (frequency coded? phase coded?)
what's the minimal altitude before angular track become unreliable ?(100meter?)
a plane can inject early false target ( false target before the real plane) and late target?if( there is no random intrapulse modulation)
the sa8 can track no newtonian object ( helicopter with mti)?
if not it can be jammed with a jam that simulate a no newtonian object?
does it has protection against doppler velocity gate theft?( automatic recapture or AGC spoof-free?)


when enemy use noise jamming on both surveillance radar and tracking radar , is there a way to have range ?
can the enemy jam the proximity fuse(especially Under noise jamming , no range information)?
can the enemy jam the SVR ?
can the enemy jam the Missile Antenna (for SPK), is it omnidirectionnal antenna?
can the enemy jam the Monopulse Medium beam Missile Guidance Radar ?
what's the missile beacon power , i guess it use frequency hopping , does it use too the spread Spectrum?

when working without mti does it frequency hopping between each pulse?
if it is the case(without mti) a plane can't inject early false target (no false target before the real plane) only late target?
does it has protection against range gate theft?( automatic recapture or AGC spoof-free?)
does it have protection against blinking jamming ?(2 planes that jam one after other , useless i guess because the camera ?

does it use random prf against target injection?

what modulation the sa8 use?

thx for answer


Such a detailed questions from a newly registered one...
eek

Several of these questions are actually outstretches the scope of a free simulator, so I cannot answer those.
SAMSIM only simulates noise jamming, no other advanced jamming method is simulated.
We are discussing OSA-AK version here, not the AKM.
I will try to answer those that I can...

what's the minimal altitude before angular track become unreliable ?(100meter?)
Manual page 25, its not altitude, but elevation angle

the sa8 can track no newtonian object ( helicopter with mti)?
Helicopter rotor is always visible.

when enemy use noise jamming on both surveillance radar and tracking radar , is there a way to have range ?
Through PU12. Manual page 19.

can the enemy jam the proximity fuse(especially Under noise jamming , no range information)?
No, as it has a narrow perpendicular beam, so jamming it is usually too late.

can the enemy jam the SVR ?
Usually no, the missile has a powerful beacon, and it is closer to the OSA than the target.

can the enemy jam the Missile Antenna (for SPK), is it omnidirectionnal antenna?
Why on earth would you jam a transmitting only system???
banghead

Posted By: Migow

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/19/14 09:11 PM

Quote:
the sa8 can track no newtonian object ( helicopter with mti)?
Helicopter rotor is always visible.


when working in doppler the system can only have lock on newtonian object (the object move forward or rearward not the two at the same time like a helicopter's rotor or jamming)

Quote:
Special consideration is required for aircraft with large moving parts because pulse-Doppler radar operates like a phase-locked loop. Blade tips moving near the speed of sound produce the only signal that can be detected when a helicopter is moving slow near terrain and weather.

Helicopters appears like a rapidly pulsing noise emitter except in a clear environment free from clutter. An audible signal is produced for passive identification of the type of airborne object. Microwave Doppler frequency shift produced by reflector motion falls into the audible sound range for human beings (20-20,000 Hz), which is used for target classification in addition to the kinds of conventional radar display used for that purpose, like A-Scope, B-Scope, C-Scope, and RHI indicator. The human ear may be able to tell the difference better than electronic equipment.

A special mode is required because the Doppler velocity feedback information must be unlinked from radial movement so that the system can transition from scan to track with no lock.

Similar techniques are required to develop track information for jamming signals and interference that cannot satisfy the lock criteria.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-doppler_radar#Helicopters

does it have those special mode to track helicopter , and to protect against jam that simulate (target with receding AND advancing movement at the same time to break track (jammer could break old sa6 missile track but not the improved))

Quote:
can the enemy jam the SVR ?
Usually no, the missile has a powerful beacon, and it is closer to the OSA than the target.


the tunguska and tor move to missile tracking flare (IR)(because sa8 svr could be spoof or jam?) 2k22m(can be spoof by flare or dircm?) , and then IR pulsed beacon 2k22m1(there is a reason they move to infrared)

Quote:
can the enemy jam the Missile Antenna (for SPK), is it omnidirectionnal antenna?
Why on earth would you jam a transmitting only system???


can the enemy jam the receiver on the missile (the spk is only transmitting) so the missile can't receive k1k2k3
and the receiver is it directionnal antenna?( to protect from jamming)

Quote:
can the enemy jam the proximity fuse(especially Under noise jamming , no range information)?
No, as it has a narrow perpendicular beam, so jamming it is usually too late.


the 2k22m tunguska move to 8 laser proximity fuse (to protect from jamming?) and then 2k22m1 move back to RF proximity fuse to intercept cruise missile.


Quote:
what's the minimal altitude before angular track become unreliable ?(100meter?)
Manual page 25, its not altitude, but elevation angle

the sa8 use Pulse-Doppler signal processing (high sub-clutter visibility performance ,like tunguska ,require good hardware) ? or MTI with phase cancellation ( but low sub-clutter visibility performance( old device)) ( second most likely)
if target fly near ground (how much?) the target can't be distinguished from ground because MTI can suppress only 25dB signal , the ground clutter is still higher than target(unlike pulse-doppler processing 45dB ,60 dB ...)you can't see the target (only with camera?), helicopter 's rotor rcs is low .


the question are about sa8 ak ( akm better smile )not the sim itself thx smile if you have documentation smile thx for answering smile
Posted By: Sim

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/20/14 04:46 AM

Migow, What intelligence service are you working for?
Posted By: max2012

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/20/14 08:55 AM

The question is about OSA-AK there in Greece have AN-64 Apache helicopter as a goal so that is can OSA shoot it down.

The idea of flight altitude 10 meters and documentation of said at least 25 meters, then it turns out the problem.

And why should the training made Stealth I do not understand how the OSA may shoot it down?




How to understand this, can someone explain why the Stealth and AN-64 Apache Helicopter at an altitude of 10 meters.

Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/20/14 08:23 PM



OSA again.....
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/22/14 08:23 AM

Originally Posted By: max2012
The question is about OSA-AK there in Greece have AN-64 Apache helicopter as a goal so that is can OSA shoot it down.

The idea of flight altitude 10 meters and documentation of said at least 25 meters, then it turns out the problem.

And why should the training made Stealth I do not understand how the OSA may shoot it down?

Click to reveal..



How to understand this, can someone explain why the Stealth and AN-64 Apache Helicopter at an altitude of 10 meters.



Generally you can set the target altitude as you want.
I will correct Apache initial altitude to 25m (in 0.982.2).
F-117A can be tracked with the Karat daytime.
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/22/14 11:00 AM

Originally Posted By: max2012
The question is about OSA-AK there in Greece have AN-64 Apache helicopter as a goal so that is can OSA shoot it down.

The idea of flight altitude 10 meters and documentation of said at least 25 meters, then it turns out the problem.

And why should the training made Stealth I do not understand how the OSA may shoot it down?




How to understand this, can someone explain why the Stealth and AN-64 Apache Helicopter at an altitude of 10 meters.



What do you mean stealth Apache ?
Your (OSA AK) altitude is 260m and helo's alt 10m.If you you mean that you can not see it in PPI it's ok.
I don't know if you mean you can not see it with CARAT.Is that so?

PS: we use AH-64A for training in GREECE and not to shoot them down ... winkngrin
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/22/14 11:18 AM

Originally Posted By: piston79


OSA again.....



Question.
What is the altitude of the target and why ?
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/22/14 12:36 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: max2012
The question is about OSA-AK there in Greece have AN-64 Apache helicopter as a goal so that is can OSA shoot it down.

The idea of flight altitude 10 meters and documentation of said at least 25 meters, then it turns out the problem.

And why should the training made Stealth I do not understand how the OSA may shoot it down?




How to understand this, can someone explain why the Stealth and AN-64 Apache Helicopter at an altitude of 10 meters.



What do you mean stealth Apache ?
Your (OSA AK) altitude is 260m and helo's alt 10m.If you you mean that you can not see it in PPI it's ok.
I don't know if you mean you can not see it with CARAT.Is that so?

PS: we use AH-64A for training in GREECE and not to shoot them down ... winkngrin


Update.

After short investigation for above issue I can say that Samsim works very well ,close to what expected to see in real !
I used the unit 96 Chios with alt 224m and target(AH-64A) alt 10m at 20km incoming .
You can see it both in PPI and in CARAT as it should.
Target lost in PPI around at 7 km range as it was expected !Still in CARAT .

PS:The only that we can say here is that the above 7km could be 10-12 km in a more realistic base.
Posted By: Migow

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/22/14 07:34 PM

Originally Posted By: Migow
hi hpasp i have many question about sa 8 akm

does sa8 use sidelobe blanking (a omnidirectionnal antenna)?
when working with mti how many pulse does it send before it can change frequency?
does it use intrapulse coding (frequency coded? phase coded?)
what's the minimal altitude before angular track become unreliable ?(100meter?)
a plane can inject early false target ( false target before the real plane) and late target?if( there is no random intrapulse modulation)
the sa8 can track no newtonian object ( helicopter with mti)?
if not it can be jammed with a jam that simulate a no newtonian object?
does it has protection against doppler velocity gate theft?( automatic recapture or AGC spoof-free?)


when enemy use noise jamming on both surveillance radar and tracking radar , is there a way to have range ?
can the enemy jam the proximity fuse(especially Under noise jamming , no range information)?
can the enemy jam the SVR ?
can the enemy jam the Missile Antenna (for SPK), is it omnidirectionnal antenna?
can the enemy jam the Monopulse Medium beam Missile Guidance Radar ?
what's the missile beacon power , i guess it use frequency hopping , does it use too the spread Spectrum?

when working without mti does it frequency hopping between each pulse?
if it is the case(without mti) a plane can't inject early false target (no false target before the real plane) only late target?
does it has protection against range gate theft?( automatic recapture or AGC spoof-free?)
does it have protection against blinking jamming ?(2 planes that jam one after other , useless i guess because the camera ?

does it use random prf against target injection?

what modulation the sa8 use?

thx for answer





hi ePap can you answer those question ? cat smile
thx for answering
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/22/14 07:44 PM

Originally Posted By: Migow
Originally Posted By: Migow
hi hpasp i have many question about sa 8 akm

does sa8 use sidelobe blanking (a omnidirectionnal antenna)?
when working with mti how many pulse does it send before it can change frequency?
does it use intrapulse coding (frequency coded? phase coded?)
what's the minimal altitude before angular track become unreliable ?(100meter?)
a plane can inject early false target ( false target before the real plane) and late target?if( there is no random intrapulse modulation)
the sa8 can track no newtonian object ( helicopter with mti)?
if not it can be jammed with a jam that simulate a no newtonian object?
does it has protection against doppler velocity gate theft?( automatic recapture or AGC spoof-free?)


when enemy use noise jamming on both surveillance radar and tracking radar , is there a way to have range ?
can the enemy jam the proximity fuse(especially Under noise jamming , no range information)?
can the enemy jam the SVR ?
can the enemy jam the Missile Antenna (for SPK), is it omnidirectionnal antenna?
can the enemy jam the Monopulse Medium beam Missile Guidance Radar ?
what's the missile beacon power , i guess it use frequency hopping , does it use too the spread Spectrum?

when working without mti does it frequency hopping between each pulse?
if it is the case(without mti) a plane can't inject early false target (no false target before the real plane) only late target?
does it has protection against range gate theft?( automatic recapture or AGC spoof-free?)
does it have protection against blinking jamming ?(2 planes that jam one after other , useless i guess because the camera ?

does it use random prf against target injection?

what modulation the sa8 use?

thx for answer





hi ePap can you answer those question ? cat smile
thx for answering


All these questions are necessary in order to learn how the Samsim works ?
...unless you want to buy a real one... biggrin
Posted By: DDG167

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/23/14 03:49 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: Mdore
Jamming might not be a problem in real life, but it is in SAM Sim, because there's no way to track a jamming target at night.


Tracking of a noise jamming target in angle with a monopulse design (SSC) is more than easy.
Due to design, angle tracking errors are reduced by "x" magnitudes, compared to non jamming targets.

Arming the missile radio proxy fuse after launch, is a manual choice of the Firing Officer.

As the 9M33M2 can pull 25g during T/T guided flight, so target has to "do magic" to avoid hit.


as i remember sa-4 SCC has got a switch with green lamp to engage with jammer target
but OSA doesnt have any thing like this !

i check all of button an switch around SCC pannel but they doesnt work at all ...

please some one hunt a jammer in lybia


It is the question I want to ask too...but no reply yet?
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/23/14 03:53 PM

Originally Posted By: DDG167
Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: Mdore
Jamming might not be a problem in real life, but it is in SAM Sim, because there's no way to track a jamming target at night.


Tracking of a noise jamming target in angle with a monopulse design (SSC) is more than easy.
Due to design, angle tracking errors are reduced by "x" magnitudes, compared to non jamming targets.

Arming the missile radio proxy fuse after launch, is a manual choice of the Firing Officer.

As the 9M33M2 can pull 25g during T/T guided flight, so target has to "do magic" to avoid hit.


as i remember sa-4 SCC has got a switch with green lamp to engage with jammer target
but OSA doesnt have any thing like this !

i check all of button an switch around SCC pannel but they doesnt work at all ...

please some one hunt a jammer in lybia


It is the question I want to ask too...but no reply yet?


It is a valid bug, and will be corrected in SAMSIM v928.2...
... that can be downloaded from here:

http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

(OSA has the same POMEHA switch, that would arm missile radio proxy fuse just after the launch)
manual page 34 - step 7
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/23/14 04:08 PM

Originally Posted By: Migow


hi ePap can you answer those question ? cat smile
thx for answering


Don't you think that this is too sensitive information in some countries, which still use SA-8 "Gecko"???
Posted By: DDG167

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/23/14 05:20 PM

I know how to prepare the missile and set the fuse, but unable to track the jamming target. You mean this case will be corrected? A good new thumbsup

Many thanks for your excellent work.

Ehhh, I compare Tor-M1 with OSA-AK, it looks like Tor-M1 do not have a POMEHA switch? May Tor-M1 set missile radio proxy fuse automatically?
Posted By: DDG167

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/23/14 05:29 PM

OK, I see the update anouncement.
Downloading... cheers
Posted By: Migow

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/23/14 10:17 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: Migow


hi ePap can you answer those question ? cat smile
thx for answering


Don't you think that this is too sensitive information in some countries, which still use SA-8 "Gecko"???


the sa 8 has been compromise
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/24/14 06:13 AM

Originally Posted By: Migow
Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: Migow


hi ePap can you answer those question ? cat smile
thx for answering


Don't you think that this is too sensitive information in some countries, which still use SA-8 "Gecko"???


the sa 8 has been compromise


In Angola during Operations Moduler...
Posted By: Migow

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/25/14 08:41 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: Migow
Originally Posted By: Migow
hi hpasp i have many question about sa 8 akm

does sa8 use sidelobe blanking (a omnidirectionnal antenna)?
when working with mti how many pulse does it send before it can change frequency?
does it use intrapulse coding (frequency coded? phase coded?)
what's the minimal altitude before angular track become unreliable ?(100meter?)
a plane can inject early false target ( false target before the real plane) and late target?if( there is no random intrapulse modulation)
the sa8 can track no newtonian object ( helicopter with mti)?
if not it can be jammed with a jam that simulate a no newtonian object?
does it has protection against doppler velocity gate theft?( automatic recapture or AGC spoof-free?)


when enemy use noise jamming on both surveillance radar and tracking radar , is there a way to have range ?
can the enemy jam the proximity fuse(especially Under noise jamming , no range information)?
can the enemy jam the SVR ?
can the enemy jam the Missile Antenna (for SPK), is it omnidirectionnal antenna?
can the enemy jam the Monopulse Medium beam Missile Guidance Radar ?
what's the missile beacon power , i guess it use frequency hopping , does it use too the spread Spectrum?

when working without mti does it frequency hopping between each pulse?
if it is the case(without mti) a plane can't inject early false target (no false target before the real plane) only late target?
does it has protection against range gate theft?( automatic recapture or AGC spoof-free?)
does it have protection against blinking jamming ?(2 planes that jam one after other , useless i guess because the camera ?

does it use random prf against target injection?

what modulation the sa8 use?

thx for answer





hi ePap can you answer those question ? cat smile
thx for answering


All these questions are necessary in order to learn how the Samsim works ?
...unless you want to buy a real one... biggrin


not about samsim but sa8 i 'd like to know the capability against many jamming technic , thx
Posted By: lohit

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/26/14 04:33 AM

two in ripple mode
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/28/14 05:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: Migow


the sa 8 has been compromise


In Angola during Operations Moduler...



So, anyone with Afrikaans?
Posted By: VOLCHOV

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/30/14 08:58 PM

For sale smile
http://www.armypoint.cz/plrs-9m33m3-osa-kod-nato-sa-8-gecko/d-91463/
Posted By: max2012

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/31/14 01:29 PM


Hi everyone!

The question can not be shot in Greece as I understand it, then why is not made clear.

It is not clear, then why did Greece, is not entirely clear.

It is not clear of course!

AN-64 found everything in order to shoot could not work.
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/31/14 01:56 PM

Originally Posted By: max2012

Hi everyone!

The question can not be shot in Greece as I understand it, then why is not made clear.

It is not clear, then why did Greece, is not entirely clear.

It is not clear of course!

AN-64 found everything in order to shoot could not work.


What are you tring to say ?I do not understand rolleyes
Posted By: max2012

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/31/14 02:14 PM


In Greece, you can shoot or not?

If not, bad of course, I thought that it is possible.
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/31/14 02:22 PM

Originally Posted By: max2012

In Greece, you can shoot or not?

If not, bad of course, I thought that it is possible.


No you can not.You can train your self in all procedures but to fire ,You can emulate a firing but not to shoot down planes.
In firing places you can fire missiles and shoot down drones.
Go and participate to a historic scenario where real war took place and fire missiles.

Why it's bad?
It is wise ...

PS: maybe Hpasp can create a virtual "nowhere" land where we can fire agaist all kind of available targets . smile2
Posted By: max2012

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/31/14 02:32 PM


What sense is no sense then no, then why Greece is made at all.

This is very bad, there is no sense then, then let in more targets Ashuluk do.

That explains why I have been so long I can not in Greece, not one aircraft to shoot down, I very much hope that Greece.

Let him do more targets then!

Not very well, I did this calculation Greece.
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/31/14 02:44 PM

Originally Posted By: max2012

What sense is no sense then no, then why Greece is made at all.

This is very bad, there is no sense then, then let in more targets Ashuluk do.

That explains why I have been so long I can not in Greece, not one aircraft to shoot down, I very much hope that Greece.

Let him do more targets then!

Not very well, I did this calculation Greece.


Have you try Hungary to shoot?
For the same reason was made Greece .

PS: Actually I try hard to understand you but only I guess what are you trying to say ...
Posted By: max2012

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/31/14 04:45 PM


In Hungary, too, is not possible to shoot, then what is the point of her doing so, there are Stealth is made, the question Why?

The Volkhov shoot the can, why it cannot be done.

NAMFI can shoot there, but there's little objective just 3 types of very small, why not at least 6 different types of targets.

Not all assignments made Cairo, very strange, let then Cairo would make the whole.

Very few types of purposes that's the problem, if you can do both in Greece and in the choice of the goal to choose such an editor, it would be good.
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/31/14 04:58 PM

Originally Posted By: max2012

In Hungary, too, is not possible to shoot, then what is the point of her doing so, there are Stealth is made, the question Why?

The Volkhov shoot the can, why it cannot be done.

NAMFI can shoot there, but there's little objective just 3 types of very small, why not at least 6 different types of targets.

Not all assignments made Cairo, very strange, let then Cairo would make the whole.

Very few types of purposes that's the problem, if you can do both in Greece and in the choice of the goal to choose such an editor, it would be good.



I think the problem is that it is not appropriate to shoot planes all around with a simulator (almost) real to the switch .

If you want you can choose among other sims to do so.

In principal a agree with not to do that even if in back of my mind my finger goes to the fire button if a create my self a scenario of a possible "zomby" crossing the airspace of my country ...
Posted By: max2012

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/31/14 05:16 PM


Volkhov in Hungary is made so that you can let the missiles in exercise, so this idea was previously.

NAMFI there then you can more types of purposes do in Ashuluk too well.

Cairo is not made entirely in General not all missions are made.

4 Mission in Cairo, and where else, they are not available.

Why do this at all, if you can't shoot down there, it was also possible to Cairo.

I thought I could shoot down in Greece, Phantom, Mirage, Apache, no.
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/31/14 05:28 PM

Originally Posted By: max2012

Volkhov in Hungary is made so that you can let the missiles in exercise, so this idea was previously.

NAMFI there then you can more types of purposes do in Ashuluk too well.

Cairo is not made entirely in General not all missions are made.

4 Mission in Cairo, and where else, they are not available.

Why do this at all, if you can't shoot down there, it was also possible to Cairo.

I thought I could shoot down in Greece, Phantom, Mirage, Apache, no.


All the above have been answered...
Posted By: max2012

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/31/14 05:46 PM



Question what is it with stealth and why it is needed in Hungary.

Next, on the side of the + and - what it is, the rockets wanted to do.

Cairo, not all missions are still their Nope not clear when it will be made.

Stealth is not clear at all why?



Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/07/14 05:40 PM

what cool system smile

Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/10/14 06:51 PM

18:38 - NAVY OSA:

Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/11/14 07:46 AM

Originally Posted By: piston79
18:38 - NAVY OSA:










I try to understand the logic why OSA M navy version has one missile tracking channel and no Camera ?
Any ideas?
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/11/14 09:47 AM

Manual page 5.

It is the opposite...
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/11/14 10:54 AM

Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/11/14 12:11 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Manual page 5.

It is the opposite...



In page you are reffered,is not described the risk they took to implement this version of less capable OSA !
In a vital asset like a ship,you raise up the air deference chances you have.It is matter of surviving !

All the above under the assumption that ,two missile channels+TOB are better than one channel and no TOB,or OSA AK is more capable than the
OSA-M.
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/11/14 06:27 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap


All the above under the assumption that ,two missile channels+TOB are better than one channel and no TOB,or OSA AK is more capable than the
OSA-M.


Probably they could mount more than one OSA-M/MA on a ship....
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/11/14 07:18 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: ePap


All the above under the assumption that ,two missile channels+TOB are better than one channel and no TOB,or OSA AK is more capable than the
OSA-M.


Probably they could mount more than one OSA-M/MA on a ship....


Yes,but still this does not explain why they did not include a second missile channel+TOB.

Think the following scenario:
ASM is incoming.Detected and fired at 8 km.
One missile on air until possible hit.Missile flight time,let's say 12 sec.
Expecting the results with horror you realize(not seen at TOB) no hit,you fire another missile but it's to late....(with the second missile channel you could have your chance for a second fire )

The huge advantage of OSA AK compared to other Shorad systems(70s-90s) is that she can steer 2 missiles in one target (RF CLOS).
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/11/14 07:19 PM

The Project 1144.2 Orlan (Kirov) class Guided Missile Cruiser has 2 S-300F and 2 OSA-MA system.

The Project 1135 Burevestnik (Krivak) class Frigate had also 2 OSA-MA, one at the front, one at the back...



http://youtu.be/IHioFlmcFQg?t=3m5s

Even the Project 1174 (Ivan Rogov) class Amphibious Warfare ship had 2 OSA-M systems


I really wanted to list all ships having OSA-M but it was left out, as it would completely fill the manual...
banghead
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/11/14 08:50 PM

http://commi.narod.ru/bmc/r/ka3.htm

Projects 1241-2 and 1241-2PE...., only one OSA-M

And the result:





Still managed to fire twice....
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/13/14 04:32 PM

What could it be ?



Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/13/14 05:52 PM

Heart beat?
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/13/14 06:03 PM

Heart beat'n faster...
biggrin
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/13/14 06:20 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Heart beat?


...of injected pilot? His parachute ? Could be.. smile2
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/13/14 06:48 PM

A weapon release?...
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/13/14 06:51 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
A weapon release?...


What kind of weapon ?if it is a weapon .
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/13/14 07:19 PM

Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: piston79
A weapon release?...


What kind of weapon ?if it is a weapon .


A missile, targeting something near the OSA... Or a range gate pulloff-jamming.. wink
Posted By: ePap

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/13/14 07:33 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: piston79
A weapon release?...


What kind of weapon ?if it is a weapon .


A missile, targeting something near the OSA... Or a range gate pulloff-jamming.. wink


Nope.

If it was a missile or something like this,the radar return it should be much smaller of the plane.
RGPO jamming should be in front of the plane and not behind.
That's why I included two pictures ,for reference ...

It is chaff release .
Posted By: Mdore

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/14/14 03:21 AM

The SA-8 has a randomised PRF?
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 08/15/14 02:22 PM

http://tank-mania.com/SA-8-Gecko.php
Posted By: scrim

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 08/15/14 03:09 PM

Wow, that thing is nice looking, but $169US is a ridiculous price.
Posted By: VOLCHOV

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 08/20/14 09:58 PM

here in 1/72 scale for better price
wmodelkits
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 08/21/14 12:30 PM



Note 1:48... wink biggrin
Posted By: Lieste

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 08/21/14 05:50 PM

If you want 1:35 Trumpeter appear to have one on their production schedule. (quite possibly an 'homage' to tank mania...)
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 08/23/14 08:48 AM

http://youtu.be/S1ddVTDxaNc?t=7m14s
thumbsup
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 08/24/14 04:31 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp


Is that you?
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 08/26/14 06:54 AM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: Hpasp


Is that you?


Who???
nope
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 09/09/14 06:02 PM

OSA-M against russian submarine:

Posted By: scrim

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 09/09/14 06:37 PM

What. On. Earth. Was that?
Posted By: GrayGhost

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 09/26/14 02:30 PM

The missile might have lost a fin at launch of the guidance system or fin actuators failed etc.
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 11/21/14 05:33 PM

9T217BM2 (Osa TZM) Manual

http://russianarms.su/index.php?topic=825.0
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 01/10/15 08:05 PM

why work with automatic detection in OSA-AK is so easy ? rolleyes
i cant understand ... rolleyes
with 2 or 3 button .. you can catch high speed target rolleyes
Posted By: scrim

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 01/10/15 08:25 PM

Eh, equipment that's easy to operate is undeniably a good thing I'd assume. Maybe that's why?
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 01/10/15 09:26 PM

Originally Posted By: scrim
Eh, equipment that's easy to operate is undeniably a good thing I'd assume. Maybe that's why?

its not all about equipments ...
but i understand.. why this one is deadliest than other systems!
fastest system in reaction to tracking !
that is the question
how a command guided system can be fastest like sa-8 rolleyes
and one guy who operate that
must answer this question

Posted By: Mdore

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/21/15 08:35 PM

Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/31/15 02:55 PM

hpasp
in first pages of this topic
you wrote about osa missile speed is 500ms ... and during overload speed drop to 400ms
but in manual page 27 you wrote 640ms

witch one is true ?
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/31/15 03:54 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
hpasp
in first pages of this topic
you wrote about osa missile speed is 500ms ... and during overload speed drop to 400ms
but in manual page 27 you wrote 640ms

witch one is true ?


Osa missile theoretical speed vs flight time chart:

Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/08/15 09:01 PM

is it true?
osa using semi atumatic clos??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-automatic_command_to_line_of_sight
Posted By: Comrade_Hedgehog

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/09/15 08:21 AM

Originally Posted By: farokh


All SAMSim SAMs have this capability. Including the SA5.

Point the FCR and/or the Karat TV camera at the target.
Electronic wizardry and radio signals guide the missile to and then along the boresight - this is SACLOS

Technically however if the missile has lead applied to it becomes "Command Guidance" as the FCR system is throwing the missile off to the side, but it could still be classed as SACLOS as it is still following automatically generated commands to a user designated target.
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/10/15 04:59 AM

Comprtition by Comrade Mace...


Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/10/15 07:50 AM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Competition by Comrade Mace...


Click to reveal..


Nice one!
Really happy to see realistic SAM panels getting into other games.
thumbsup
Posted By: max2012

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/10/15 08:56 AM


Hi!

That would be such a simulator would be the type of game on offer here is yes , I would have understood . It is a pity that this is not!
Posted By: max2012

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/10/15 08:57 AM


Just super video , that would have been such simulators on the market.
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 08/18/15 08:15 AM

guys... i have a question
as we know... 9m33m2 warhead is weak
only 15 kg ... 8tnt . 7fg
so... how it can defeat one aircraft like f.15 or phantom f.4 ? is it possible
or this system design for soft target . . like drones
Posted By: Mdore

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 08/18/15 10:53 AM

Weak?

Did you see the bomb explosion in Thailand on the news? That was 3kg.
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 08/18/15 10:59 AM

if we compare it to sa2 sa3 warhead ... yep.. this is weak dude
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 08/18/15 11:35 AM

Weight of the warhead has non-linear effect on the maximum miss distance the missile can approach the target, and still achieve kill.
Do not forget, that the OSA missile can pull more g's during engagement, than the older missiles...
Posted By: Mdore

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 08/18/15 01:02 PM

Originally Posted By: farokh
if we compare it to sa2 sa3 warhead ... yep.. this is weak dude


You weren't comparing it to the SA-2 or SA-3, you were asking if it could shoot down an F-4 or F-15
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 08/21/15 11:27 AM

what a good pic

winkngrin
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 08/30/15 11:23 AM



hpasp..
1 .can u add black and white karat version on osa samsim ?
is it possible gor u sir ?

2.also can u add manual brightness to osa karat ?

Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 08/30/15 11:53 AM

Originally Posted By: farokh


hpasp..
1 .can u add black and white karat version on osa samsim ?
is it possible gor u sir ?

2..........



This is a night time shot....
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 08/30/15 12:02 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: farokh


hpasp..
1 .can u add black and white karat version on osa samsim ?
is it possible gor u sir ?

2..........



This is a night time shot....

if u see the center of the karat .. u will se the target with white sign in the dark like a white dot in the karat plus... but in samsim.. u will not see anything in karat atvthe night
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 08/31/15 06:45 AM





Photo by Dimitar Chorlev
Posted By: Thatdude

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 01/19/16 02:37 AM

I was wondering if it would be possible to get an addition to the existing manual that shows all usable switches. The manual as it stands at the moment seems to cover most, but not all the usable switches, and unfortunately I don't read Russian (unlike some people here I'm sure).

If, however, the other switches have been animated just for #%&*$# and giggles, well, that'd be nice to know so I could stop wondering what they do.
Posted By: farokh

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 02/20/16 08:06 PM




after 1 year...
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 02/22/16 07:45 PM

Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/27/16 08:09 PM

Despite at least two media releases, that rebel's SA-8B was destroyed by Russian VKS, after more than two years after last release, new video appeared...:



(It could be an old video, released just now, no confirmation about recent helicopter loss in Syria...

Here previous shots...

Click to reveal..










Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 10/28/16 09:38 PM

45 years in business....






Posted By: Hpasp

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 01/08/17 05:43 PM

Merry Xmas!

https://app.box.com/s/3cq0hrksh87cdqhze4rk3zpeiakkfhbj
biggrin
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/16/17 04:34 PM

Posted By: Milten

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/20/17 04:20 PM

Anyone managed to shot down something on Benghazi using OSA? A-6 seem to fly too low for radar to aquire (and Karat is useles since it's night).
Posted By: Slippery_Rat

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/20/18 07:13 PM

I'm a noobie at Sam Simulator, and SA-8B, and having difficulty locking on to moving targets, range gate is the main issue, the control seems to move too slowly to capture a sub mach A4.

So whats the trick, or just patience and predicting the path.
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 03/21/18 07:51 AM

Originally Posted by Slippery_Rat
I'm a noobie at Sam Simulator, and SA-8B, and having difficulty locking on to moving targets, range gate is the main issue, the control seems to move too slowly to capture a sub mach A4.

So whats the trick, or just patience and predicting the path.



It must be a quick way to move it (with buttons, like in SA-4... Check the manual...
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 04/26/18 04:35 PM

Rebels burned their SA-8, before surrendering to pro-Assadi forces...

https://tvzvezda.ru/news/vstrane_i_mire/content/201804230916-m6vq.htm
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/16/19 08:00 PM

Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 05/16/19 08:01 PM

Some gathered data (russian):

http://www.wrk.ru/forums/attachment.php?item=1005313
Posted By: piston79

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 06/01/19 01:02 PM

TT (3 points) guidance method principle...


[Linked Image]

SA-8 TT (3 points) flight path


[Linked Image]



Some problems with low altitude targets

[Linked Image]


Method "Gorka" in SA-8...

[Linked Image]


"Gorka" method trajectory

[Linked Image]


Fi method against helicopters. The trajectory is quasybalistic, so the missile is approaching the target at 25 degrees from the groud, so even if the fuse is trigeret by the local objects or ground, the warhead elements will destroy it...
[Linked Image]


The "H" method... In case of jamming (distance to target not known) after "POMEHA" switch is on, the fuse is set at after 0.8 seconds after launch. The missile is skimming at 170-180 meters above the ground so the fuse cannot be trigered from the ground.....

[Linked Image]

via Bronetemkin

Attached picture sa-8_TT.JPG
Attached picture sa-8_TT_drawning.JPG
Attached picture sa-8_TT_.JPG
Attached picture sa-8_TT_low altitude problems.JPG
Attached picture sa-8_TT_gorka.JPG
Attached picture sa-8_TT_gorka2.JPG
Attached picture sa-8_TT_Fi.JPG
Attached picture sa-8_TT_H.JPG
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: 9K33M2 OSA-AK (SA-8B Gecko) - 07/10/19 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by piston79
TT (3 points) guidance method principle...


[Linked Image]

SA-8 TT (3 points) flight path


[Linked Image]



Some problems with low altitude targets

[Linked Image]


Method "Gorka" in SA-8...

[Linked Image]


"Gorka" method trajectory

[Linked Image]


Fi method against helicopters. The trajectory is quasybalistic, so the missile is approaching the target at 25 degrees from the groud, so even if the fuse is trigeret by the local objects or ground, the warhead elements will destroy it...
[Linked Image]


The "H" method... In case of jamming (distance to target not known) after "POMEHA" switch is on, the fuse is set at after 0.8 seconds after launch. The missile is skimming at 170-180 meters above the ground so the fuse cannot be trigered from the ground.....

[Linked Image]

via Bronetemkin

Thanks!
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