Posted By: Hpasp
ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/07/12 02:51 PM
ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka related discussions...
ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/07/12 02:52 PM
Originally Posted By: milang
I have one qouestion??? Arm missile can knock out shilka ????
Yes, and it detonates approximately 1m above your head, killing the crew instantly (by spraying them with hot Tungsten fragments)...
... on the positive side:
- Your 23mm bullets are flying above Mach3, right from the end of your barrel, no acceleration phase.
- Your 23mm bullets are reaching maximum range within 5.5sec.
- Your 23mm bullets can kill targets, while your radar is switched off.
- You have 2000 bullets, and that is enough for a more than 30s sustained fire (4 tubes parallel).
- OFZT bullets are deadly, even one hit can be catastrophic.
Maximum range and altitude of the bullets are ~5km.
Effective range is 2,5km, altitude is 2km.
(over it the ammo dispersion is getting too big)
Maximum displayed range of the radar is 20km.
23x151B OFZT (inert - training) ammunition, with 1l of Coca Cola, and a matchbox.
Posted By: Mdore
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/07/12 02:57 PM
If you put the Shilka in your sim, will you be doing a radar only simulation, I guess we can pretend it's nighttime, or will there be optical engagements too?
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/07/12 03:12 PM
Originally Posted By: Mdore
If you put the Shilka in your sim, will you be doing a radar only simulation, I guess we can pretend it's nighttime, or will there be optical engagements too?
Shilka has 6 operation modes, and the sim will simulate two of them (mode 1, and 3)
1. Aerial target tracking with RPK in three coordinates
2. Aerial or ground target tracking with optics, and RPK is measuring range only
3. Memory mode. (tracking target with last known parameters)
4. Aerial target tracking with optics only
5. Ground target tracking with optics only
6. Emergency mode (full manual target tracking )
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/07/12 03:19 PM
Commander's workplace...
... with the heavy (180kg) 1A7 SRP mechanical fire control system
... with the heavy (180kg) 1A7 SRP mechanical fire control system
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/07/12 03:20 PM
Angle Officers workplace...
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/07/12 03:22 PM
Range Officers workplace...
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/07/12 04:37 PM
Originally Posted By: max2012
Question, and that Shilka can knock down as an example?
F-15, F-16, it can not bring down the well in any way, and SR-71, too, can not it exactly!
In general, it is desirable to read the documentation already!
Training is planned to be in the Hungarian firing range of, Dregelypalank against small remote controlled planes, called "Meteor".
N48.045308°, E19.041069°
Here a Strela hits it...
http://www.peaceful.hu/Store/Meteor3.wmv
...and a longer clip:
http://www.peaceful.hu/peaceful_albums/Videos/100_37_7.wmv
Wartime situations will certainly include:
Operations El Dorado Canyon (Tripoli) and Egypt.
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/07/12 05:01 PM
hpasp... could u explain about ashuluk target with shilka???? we have ashuluk on sam sim with shilka like other system's? or ashuluk training with shilka is a different ???
shilka is a mobilr anti air system... could u create one feature (choose situation in map ! one drive option for driving shilka :D)
this is possible or impossible feature????
shilka is a mobilr anti air system... could u create one feature (choose situation in map ! one drive option for driving shilka :D)
this is possible or impossible feature????
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/07/12 05:07 PM
Instead of Ashuluk, you will have Dregelypalank.
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/07/12 05:09 PM
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
23x151B OFZT (inert - training) ammunition, with 1l of Coca Cola, and a matchbox.
O my god..... Until now. I never ever seen one bullet like this......
So.... I see that system in iran air deffense but all of them is disable.... i dont know why!
iran Air defense usualy using from "sky guard" and some "static ZSU atoumatic" with( 2 long barrel)
Of course in iran and iraq war .... Iraqian shilka created a big hell for iranian f-4 phantoms and f-5 tigers
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/07/12 05:25 PM
Originally Posted By: milang
Click to reveal..
O my god..... Until now. I never ever seen one bullet like this......
The OFZT (HEI-T, High Explosive Incendiary Tracer) interior is quite complex...
...compared to the BZT (API-T, Armor Piercing Incendiary Tracer).
After each three OFZT ammunitions, one BZT is loaded into the ammo belt.
Originally Posted By: milang
So.... I see that system in iran air deffense but all of them is disable.... i dont know why!
Air defense usualy using from sky guard and some static ZSU
Of course in iran and iraq war .... Iraqian shilka created a big hell for iranian f-4 phantoms and f-5 tigers
Air defense usualy using from sky guard and some static ZSU
Of course in iran and iraq war .... Iraqian shilka created a big hell for iranian f-4 phantoms and f-5 tigers
While NATO is routinely facing SAM's, they still choose to avoid AAA's, with a good reason...
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/07/12 05:59 PM
wow,,, amazing system... deadly bullet's... awesome barrel's 
ps:could you set determine release date?please....
between witch months we can touch it on sam simulator?..... 
PS-2: shilka can tracking how many speed of target ??? 700m/s ? or lower either higher?
ps:could you set determine release date?please....
between witch months we can touch it on sam simulator?..... PS-2: shilka can tracking how many speed of target ??? 700m/s ? or lower either higher?
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/07/12 06:46 PM
Originally Posted By: milang
wow,,, amazing system... deadly bullet's... awesome barrel's
ps:could you set determine release date?please.... between witch months we can touch it on sam simulator?.....
ps:could you set determine release date?please....
between witch months we can touch it on sam simulator?..... I hope release during the end of this year, but no promises...
Originally Posted By: milang
PS-2: shilka can tracking how many speed of target ??? 700m/s ? or lower either higher?
Please note, that pilot guided plane maximum speeds...
Mach1 at 0m
Mach2 at ~10km
Mach3 at ~20km
Shilka could engage Mach1.5 targets.
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/07/12 06:50 PM
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: Mdore
If you put the Shilka in your sim, will you be doing a radar only simulation, I guess we can pretend it's nighttime, or will there be optical engagements too?
Shilka has 6 operation modes, and the sim will simulate two of them (mode 1, and 3)
1. Aerial target tracking with RPK in three coordinates
2. Aerial or ground target tracking with optics, and RPK is measuring range only
3. Memory mode. (tracking target with last known parameters)
4. Aerial target tracking with optics only
5. Ground target tracking with optics only
6. Emergency mode (full manual target tracking )
what is 6th operation mode??? shilka's crews use optic tracking again in this mode??
the end of my post : i guess we get closer to Ripen soviet union sam's archive
of course after KUB Be simulated almost of famous soviet sam system's simulated and then... at far future hpasp could change to future plan with new generation system like s-300 famous pmu 
Posted By: jazjar
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/07/12 09:51 PM
Hmm... Could you give us a basic "Theory of Operation" overview? Tell us about the different modes that the radar can operate in, like the search modes, the target track modes, etc. Is the angle officer's scope for acquisition and lock up in beta and epsilon, and the range officer's for delta?
Posted By: JWNoctis
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/08/12 03:12 AM
Hmm, well...I believe we're talking about a literal few seconds of reaction time here, before being torn apart by bomblets/rockets/GAU-8s/Hellfires/Mavericks/whatever if we're the target, and even if we aren't -- clickfest, anyone?
Better get prepared.
Better get prepared.
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/08/12 04:56 AM
Originally Posted By: jazjar
Hmm... Could you give us a basic "Theory of Operation" overview? Tell us about the different modes that the radar can operate in, like the search modes, the target track modes, etc. Is the angle officer's scope for acquisition and lock up in beta and epsilon, and the range officer's for delta?
I'm still learning it (from an ex Shilka teacher, and the exCommander of Dregelypalank firing range), and reading manuals...
... but basically it is very close to KRUG.
Angle officer is locking it in Epsilon/Beta.
Range officer lock the target in range...
Than the Mechanical Calculator will calculate impact point, and when the "Est Dannie" ("Have Data") lamp illuminates, the Commander or the Angle officer fires a burst.
Burst length is depending on the target type.
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/08/12 05:07 AM
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/08/12 11:37 AM
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/09/12 11:47 AM
in shilka could we shoot automatic like machinegun or semi-auto ??? for best level
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/09/12 03:01 PM
Originally Posted By: milang
in shilka could we shoot automatic like machinegun or semi-auto ??? for best level
Automatic, with 56 shots per second if you press the space key...
... and it keeps shooting the burst until you release it (or expel all ammo on board), but there are four single shot buttons also (one for each tube), for jam avoidance.
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/09/12 04:26 PM
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/09/12 04:40 PM
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
o my god ..............my speaker set on high volume ! when i pusk space!
I jumped from my chair !!!!!please write this notic : try this with low volume
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/09/12 06:49 PM
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Automatic, with 56 shots per second if you press the space key...
how this happend is realy !!!!
shilka only has a 4 barrel... shilka is no gatling gun with 6 rail gun barrel's! that shilka's barrel do not cauterize and fuse stricken when we pusk space for example : 15 seconds???
ps: also in 3daar ... how we can see 3d aaar? if we shoot 1500 bullet's on 3daar we will see 1500 blue lines to target??
Posted By: piston79
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/09/12 07:04 PM
Quote:
Each water-cooled 23 mm 2A7 autocannon has a cyclic rate of 8501,000 rounds per minute for a combined rate of fire of 3,4004,000 rounds per minute. The welded turret has a race ring transplanted from a T-54 medium tank with a 1,840 mm (6') diameter. The 360 rotating turret is fully stabilised and capable of firing on the move. The turret rotation and autocannon elevation mechanisms provide very good speed and guidance accuracy. The hydraulically driven aiming mechanisms have been proven to be very reliable. Manual aim is used against ground targets. The quad automatic anti-aircraft gun AZP-23 "Amur" has a range of elevation from -4 to +85. The GRAU designation for ZSU-23-4 turret with 23 mm (0.9") AZP-23 "Amur" quad automatic gun is 2A10. An armoured plate inside the turret protects crew members from fire and explosive gas during intense firing.
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/09/12 07:57 PM
The sound of shooting at the Shilka super!
Only 50 shots per second is not quite right
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/10/12 07:27 AM
why these shilka shoot just brust ???? 
if they shot full auto hit chance going down???
if they shot full auto hit chance going down???
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/10/12 08:26 AM
Originally Posted By: milang
why these shilka shoot just brust ???? if they shot full auto hit chance going down???
if they shot full auto hit chance going down???Click to reveal..
The Shilka Operation Manual states that:
Against slow targets (slow speed flying planes, helicopters) you should fire from 4 barrels, with short bursts, waiting 2~3s between them...
3~5 shots per barrel (12~20 shots total), by pressing the fire button/pedal for 0.2s or 0.35s.
or
5~10 shots per barrel (20~40 shots total), by pressing the fire button/pedal for 0.35s or 0.7s.
... decided by the commander.
Against fast targets (high speed flying planes) you should fire from 4 barrels, with longer bursts, waiting 2~3s between them...
5~10 shots per barrel (20~40 shots total), by pressing the fire button/pedal for 0.35s or 0.7s.
or
50 shots per barrel (200 shots total), by pressing the fire button/pedal for 0.9s.
... decided by the commander.
Against ground targets you should fire from 2 barrels, with short bursts, waiting 2~3s between them.
The reason is to wait to see if earlier shots killed the target.
(OFZT need 2~3s travel time till the maximum effective range)
The barrels (2.8kW) liquid cooling system is very effective (working at 8atm), so you can fire all ammo (2000pcs) on board in a one ~35s long burst (done several times at the Dregelypalank firing range in Hungary), but generally there is no reason of doing it.
Please also note, that after ~3000 shots, barrels should be replaced as they worn out.
PS: Probably this Libyan Shilka crew not read the manual fully...
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/10/12 08:37 AM
Originally Posted By: max2012
The sound of shooting at the Shilka super!
Only 50 shots per second is not quite right
56 shot per sec from 4 barrels is the actual minimum.
(it depends on ammo quality, gun maintenance, etc...)
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/10/12 11:35 AM
mr.hpasp....
did u create a new coding for run aircraft from shilka's hand ????
i guess for run from shilka only diving to earth is not enough.......
did u create a new coding for run aircraft from shilka's hand ????
i guess for run from shilka only diving to earth is not enough.......
Posted By: montieris
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/10/12 12:02 PM
Originally Posted By: milang
i guess for run from shilka only diving to earth is not enough.......
Bullets are not guiding! Only flying ballistic.
If pilot does see tracers incoming then he has 1-2 sec. to make any maneuver. This would avoid predicted point of burst intercept + chance to hit.
In theory..
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/10/12 12:09 PM
Originally Posted By: montieris
Originally Posted By: milang
i guess for run from shilka only diving to earth is not enough.......
Bullets are not guiding! Only flying ballistic.
If pilot does see tracers incoming then he has 1-2 sec. to make any maneuver. This would avoid predicted point of burst intercept + chance to hit.
In theory..
This is why Shilka is not exactly aiming for the predicted impact point, rather is sprays the ammo at an area around of it.
PS: And this is the exact reason, why its range (5,5km) and effective range (2,5km) is different.
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/10/12 12:34 PM
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
PS: And this is the exact reason, why its range (5,5km) and effective range (2,5km) is different.
you meant is we have to shoot to target unnder 3 / 2.5 km ???
we can't shoot target from 5km?
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/10/12 01:10 PM
Originally Posted By: milang
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
PS: And this is the exact reason, why its range (5,5km) and effective range (2,5km) is different.
you meant is we have to shoot to target unnder 3 / 2.5 km ???
we can't shoot target from 5km?
You can shoot at any time, and any burst length...
... but the SRP can calculate lead only for targets 9.9km away.
OFZT ammunition is self destructing after 5~11s of flight (5~10km).
You receive "have data" signal for a target only from 5.5km distance.
The ammo spread is optimized for 2,5km range.
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/10/12 01:51 PM
Question Shilka Tomahawk missile could knock on Ashuluk?
The idea is no problem because Tomahawk altitude of 100-200 meters and a speed less than Mach 1
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/10/12 01:55 PM
Later in Ashuluk Shilka can easily hit these targets ...
1. Tomahawk missile target low
2. A6 plane too low goal of 100 meters and a speed low.
3. Tornado aircraft altitude of 100 meters Speed Max > 1
4. FB-111 plane too low, I think the goal with no problems.
1. Tomahawk missile target low
2. A6 plane too low goal of 100 meters and a speed low.
3. Tornado aircraft altitude of 100 meters Speed Max > 1
4. FB-111 plane too low, I think the goal with no problems.
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/10/12 01:59 PM
I have no knowledge, that Shilka was ever used in Ashuluk against these expensive targets...
... Shilka practice targets are usually consisted of cheap RC planes (at least in Hungary), mirroring shots against real planes (in East Germany), and parachuted flare target (in Poland).
Do you have any other information available?
... Shilka practice targets are usually consisted of cheap RC planes (at least in Hungary), mirroring shots against real planes (in East Germany), and parachuted flare target (in Poland).
Do you have any other information available?
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/10/12 02:09 PM
Originally Posted By: max2012
Later in Ashuluk Shilka can easily hit these targets ...
1. Tomahawk missile target low
2. A6 plane too low goal of 100 meters and a speed low.
3. Tornado aircraft altitude of 100 meters Speed Max > 1
4. FB-111 plane too low, I think the goal with no problems.
1. Tomahawk missile target low
2. A6 plane too low goal of 100 meters and a speed low.
3. Tornado aircraft altitude of 100 meters Speed Max > 1
4. FB-111 plane too low, I think the goal with no problems.
please include a-4 skyhawk
this is including too Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
PS: And this is the exact reason, why its range (5,5km) and effective range (2,5km) is different.
You can shoot at any time, and any burst length...
... but the SRP can calculate lead only for targets 9.9km away.
OFZT ammunition is self destructing after 5~11s of flight (5~10km).
You receive "have data" signal for a target only from 5.5km distance.
The ammo spread is optimized for 2,5km range.
so... could we hit target more than 5/5 km??? with shoot to blind dot without any exact tracking??? like ambush of bullet's,
1500 bullet's to blind dot ... maybe one bullet hit to target..is it logical?
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
I have no knowledge, that Shilka was ever used in Ashuluk against these expensive targets...
... Shilka practice targets are usually consisted of cheap RC planes (at least in Hungary), mirroring shots against real planes (in East Germany), and parachuted flare target (in Poland).
Do you have any other information available?
... Shilka practice targets are usually consisted of cheap RC planes (at least in Hungary), mirroring shots against real planes (in East Germany), and parachuted flare target (in Poland).
Do you have any other information available?
this is easy...! u can add that ashuluk target flying adding to ashuluk shilka training target!!! could u tell me why not???
to be honest i think Dregelypalank is not enough for us for better training with shilka!
in scenario's we have to hit fast aircraft with high speed ... they does'nt like Dregelypalank
we need better type of ashuluk target
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/10/12 02:34 PM
guys ineed your help about one armor armed Under the belly of the plane!!! this technic is true???? looks like Shield..........
i hear from somewhere... in aldore bridge when iranian phantom's want to take a spying pctures from there ...for spying mission !
they need to get closer to target to take picture ... one guy said to me in airport some phantom armed armor Under the belly of the plane
for stop AA bullet's like shilka!
i think this is true! because at that age and moment one f-4 begin take several picture's from aldoreh bridge and right there... there was 3 shilka and they shoot together to phantom.. but phantom just hit... and phantom cam back to airbase with highly damage...
i hear from somewhere... in aldore bridge when iranian phantom's want to take a spying pctures from there ...for spying mission !
they need to get closer to target to take picture ... one guy said to me in airport some phantom armed armor Under the belly of the plane
for stop AA bullet's like shilka!
i think this is true! because at that age and moment one f-4 begin take several picture's from aldoreh bridge and right there... there was 3 shilka and they shoot together to phantom.. but phantom just hit... and phantom cam back to airbase with highly damage...
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/10/12 03:08 PM
Originally Posted By: milang
guys ineed your help about one armor armed Under the belly of the plane!!! this technic is true???? looks like Shield..........
i hear from somewhere... in aldore bridge when iranian phantom's want to take a spying pctures from there ...for spying mission !
they need to get closer to target to take picture ... one guy said to me in airport some phantom armed armor Under the belly of the plane
for stop AA bullet's like shilka!
i hear from somewhere... in aldore bridge when iranian phantom's want to take a spying pctures from there ...for spying mission !
they need to get closer to target to take picture ... one guy said to me in airport some phantom armed armor Under the belly of the plane
for stop AA bullet's like shilka!
BZT ammo could perforate a ~2cm thick armored plate at 1km range.
(2.5cm at 500m)
Originally Posted By: milang
this is easy...! u can add that ashuluk target flying adding to ashuluk shilka training target!!! could u tell me why not???
to be honest i think Dregelypalank is not enough for us for better training with shilka!
in scenario's we have to hit fast aircraft with high speed ... they does'nt like Dregelypalank
we need better type of ashuluk target
The main goal during development of this simulator is to simulate what the crew could see, and hear during training and engagement.
If the real WarPact crews were trained with slow targets, than you would be also...
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/10/12 04:18 PM
uuuuuf.... 
i really Tired from make imagine shilka's handleing in my mind 
when we could make a hell with OFZT bullet's !?!?!?!?!?!?
i praying every day and i hope it will release soon
i really Tired from make imagine shilka's handleing in my mind when we could make a hell with OFZT bullet's !?!?!?!?!?!?
i praying every day and i hope it will release soon
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/10/12 06:23 PM
Originally Posted By: milang
uuuuuf.... i really Tired from make imagine shilka's handleing in my mind
when we could make a hell with OFZT bullet's !?!?!?!?!?!?
i praying every day and i hope it will release soon
i really Tired from make imagine shilka's handleing in my mind when we could make a hell with OFZT bullet's !?!?!?!?!?!?
i praying every day and i hope it will release soon
It is planned (no promises) at the end of this year.
- September; learning and reading original operation manuals (on average 200 pages, and there are 25 of them ...)
- October; artwork (switches and lamps)
- November; logic implementation
- December; situation implementation (Dregelypalank, Egypt, Tripoli)
PS: if there will be enough bugs found in the current release, than this schedule will be delayed with at least one month due to bugfixing release.
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/11/12 09:37 PM
shilka's manual is already ????? could we soon read this PDF before shilka system release one sam sim ????// ...........
...........
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/12/12 07:04 AM
Nope.
These are Hungarian original (military) operation manuals.
These are Hungarian original (military) operation manuals.
Posted By: piston79
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/12/12 10:07 AM
Originally Posted By: milang
i cant understand
so shilka's pdf is operation manuals ... so we have to work with shilka on sam simulator without pfd??? Probably not ready yet... If you don't have something to say, just stay quite...
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/12/12 10:18 AM
Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: milang
i cant understand
so shilka's pdf is operation manuals ... so we have to work with shilka on sam simulator without pfd??? Probably not ready yet... If you don't have something to say, just stay quite...
i want just kidding dude
oki deleted my post
Posted By: mhking66
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/14/12 04:37 PM
wow wow wow... mercy hpasp
i cant wait for it
i cant wait for it
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/15/12 06:56 PM
one question......
how shilka can attack to jamming target???? jammer could effect on shilka SNR???
shilks have any electronic warfare
how shilka can attack to jamming target???? jammer could effect on shilka SNR???
shilks have any electronic warfare
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/15/12 08:11 PM
Originally Posted By: milang
one question......
how shilka can attack to jamming target???? jammer could effect on shilka SNR???
shilks have any electronic warfare
how shilka can attack to jamming target???? jammer could effect on shilka SNR???
shilks have any electronic warfare
Minimal, just the basics...
... SDC and two operating frequencies.
Posted By: jazjar
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/15/12 09:53 PM
Doesn't really help much against modern self defense jammers, so I guess that its opitcal tracking in modern times.
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/16/12 10:28 AM
Originally Posted By: jazjar
Doesn't really help much against modern self defense jammers, so I guess that its opitcal tracking in modern times.
...with laser range finders.
Posted By: Buren
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/16/12 11:09 AM
Hpasp,
Really nice to see you actually integrate the Shilka into the sim, I was under the impression that you shelved the project because you don't want to make a learning tool for such a widespread weapon system. (if you know what I mean)
Why's the change of mind? Not that I'm complaining, I am really excited to "play" with the ZSU-23-4.
Cheers,
Buren
Really nice to see you actually integrate the Shilka into the sim, I was under the impression that you shelved the project because you don't want to make a learning tool for such a widespread weapon system. (if you know what I mean)
Why's the change of mind? Not that I'm complaining, I am really excited to "play" with the ZSU-23-4.
Cheers,
Buren
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/16/12 12:45 PM
Originally Posted By: Buren
Hpasp,
Really nice to see you actually integrate the Shilka into the sim, I was under the impression that you shelved the project because you don't want to make a learning tool for such a widespread weapon system. (if you know what I mean)
Why's the change of mind? Not that I'm complaining, I am really excited to "play" with the ZSU-23-4.
Cheers,
Buren
Really nice to see you actually integrate the Shilka into the sim, I was under the impression that you shelved the project because you don't want to make a learning tool for such a widespread weapon system. (if you know what I mean)
Why's the change of mind? Not that I'm complaining, I am really excited to "play" with the ZSU-23-4.
Cheers,
Buren
It will model only radar modes, without any optical tracking capability.
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/16/12 03:10 PM
It is good and it's certainly no optics because the optics of complex program probably.
Only radar and needed in other SAM
Question and documentation can be read at all.
Release is planned as I understood at the end of 2012, that is somewhere in December!
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/16/12 03:40 PM
i love only radar mode!
sam sim be famous only with simulation radar modes .!
tracking target with different radar modes is very amazing than optical tracking!
sam sim be famous only with simulation radar modes .!
tracking target with different radar modes is very amazing than optical tracking!
Posted By: WhoCares
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/16/12 06:01 PM
Are the drones also capable to simulate helicopters?
I'd assume in the more recent scenarios those would be the "prefered" targets of the Shilka.
I'd assume in the more recent scenarios those would be the "prefered" targets of the Shilka.
Posted By: CooLDoG
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/17/12 12:47 PM
I took a little break from SAMSIM and when I come back the forum has completly changed and the Shilka is back! I'm very excited! This is the bes simulator!
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/19/12 06:32 PM
Originally Posted By: WhoCares
Are the drones also capable to simulate helicopters?
I'd assume in the more recent scenarios those would be the "prefered" targets of the Shilka.
I'd assume in the more recent scenarios those would be the "prefered" targets of the Shilka.
They are pretty much like small helicopters...
METEOR-I
2sqrm delta winged plane used between 1977~2005
speed: 160km/hr
METEOR-II
used between 1982~1999
speed: 180km/hr
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/20/12 02:16 PM
Shilka release as I understand is scheduled for late 2012
In December!
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/23/12 07:13 PM
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: WhoCares
Are the drones also capable to simulate helicopters?
I'd assume in the more recent scenarios those would be the "prefered" targets of the Shilka.
I'd assume in the more recent scenarios those would be the "prefered" targets of the Shilka.
They are pretty much like small helicopters...
METEOR-I
2sqrm delta winged plane used between 1977~2005
speed: 160km/hr
METEOR-II
used between 1982~1999
speed: 180km/hr
one confuser question .....
how one shilka's operator can hit one aircraft with +1000KM/HR speed ... ?
almost shilka's crew just hit meteor1/2 with maximum speed is 180KM/HR
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/24/12 07:38 AM
Originally Posted By: milang
one confuser question .....
how one shilka's operator can hit one aircraft with +1000KM/HR speed ... ?
almost shilka's crew just hit meteor1/2 with maximum speed is 180KM/HR
how one shilka's operator can hit one aircraft with +1000KM/HR speed ... ?
almost shilka's crew just hit meteor1/2 with maximum speed is 180KM/HR
Process of hitting a target should be the same, independent of its speed.
- Slower smaller targets are cheaper than faster
- Cheaper targets means more frequent practice opportunities
- Area limitations (Hungary is a small, densely populated country) of the firing range cause that only slower targets could be safely used
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/25/12 06:34 PM
hpasp.... in shilka how we can understand shilka's bullet hit to target???
there is no plotting board in shilka
there is no plotting board in shilka
Posted By: piston79
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/25/12 07:10 PM
Originally Posted By: milang
hpasp.... in shilka how we can understand shilka's bullet hit to target???
Target just dies...
Posted By: jazjar
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/25/12 08:31 PM
Does the radar have its own search mode, or do we rely upon something akin to a datalink to a "Dog Ear" [dog breath;)] radar for acquisition?
Posted By: montieris
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/25/12 10:02 PM
Hm, no idea about radar search modes but
There is no datalink in ZSU-23-4V1, just R-123 voice radio between Shilka and PU-12 or "PPRU-1".
But since PU-12 have no radar, where did PU-12 got information from?
Seems that later Shilka versions (ZSU-23-4M4) have some datalink;
There is no datalink in ZSU-23-4V1, just R-123 voice radio between Shilka and PU-12 or "PPRU-1".
But since PU-12 have no radar, where did PU-12 got information from?
Seems that later Shilka versions (ZSU-23-4M4) have some datalink;
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/26/12 07:10 AM
Originally Posted By: jazjar
Does the radar have its own search mode, or do we rely upon something akin to a datalink to a "Dog Ear" [dog breath;)] radar for acquisition?
Yes it has, independently from the turret.
In theory, the PU-12 had a plotting board inside, where the data was coming from the Army Radio-technical Battalions.
I'm still considering, to add plotting board to the Shilka SIM.
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/28/12 04:51 AM
Shilka Gas turbine...
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/02/12 12:58 PM
HPASP. could u create one demo / trailer video clip about shilka tracking and shooting on sam simulator ? PLEASE. 
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/02/12 04:19 PM
Originally Posted By: milang
HPASP. could u create one demo / trailer video clip about shilka tracking and shooting on sam simulator ? PLEASE.
Nope, as I still reading the documentation, no programming started yet.
The basic fight would look like:
- check plotting board for incoming target general direction
- use radar sector search or manual search for target acquisition
- lock on target in angles and range (between 10~20km depending on target RCS)
- wait until target flies into destruction zone
- fire bursts length depending on your taste
- wait 3~5s until your burst arrives to the target
- detect if target falls apart
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/02/12 10:32 PM
Release will be in December 2012, as I understand it!
Or in 2013 ...
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/03/12 06:53 PM
Originally Posted By: max2012
Release will be in December 2012, as I understand it!
Or in 2013 ...
I will release it, when it will be ready...
Posted By: jazjar
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/03/12 07:08 PM
Thank you for posting that engagement procedure, that makes acquisition easier to understand. Is the plotting board in the vehicle,or are they assigned targets by a command vehicle with the plotting board?
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/03/12 07:17 PM
Originally Posted By: jazjar
Thank you for posting that engagement procedure, that makes acquisition easier to understand. Is the plotting board in the vehicle,or are they assigned targets by a command vehicle with the plotting board?
Plotting board is at the command vehicle, and the target data is communicated to the Shilka via voice radio.
Posted By: jazjar
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/03/12 09:04 PM
Hmm... Would be difficult to target small helicopters popping up for just a short period of time over hills to fire TOW missiles, according to you DIA document. I think the U.S repeated their mistake ( or did they ) when they overestimated yet another piece of Soviet equipment. It's good, but not THAT good people 
.
.
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/04/12 07:11 AM
Originally Posted By: jazjar
Hmm... Would be difficult to target small helicopters popping up for just a short period of time over hills to fire TOW missiles, according to you DIA document. I think the U.S repeated their mistake ( or did they ) when they overestimated yet another piece of Soviet equipment. It's good, but not THAT good people .
. Picking out only one element of a multi level air defense system, can easily lead to over/underestimate its standalone capability.
(Strela-2/Igla, Strela-1/Strela-10, Shilka/Tunguska, KUB, KRUG/BUK) all of these were used to overlap each other.
Usually the Shilka operated in pairs (with Strela-1/10 pairs), two pair per tank/motorized regiment.
The OFZT flies at Mach3, while the TOW flies around Mach1...
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/05/12 10:30 AM
hpasp... could u explain about shilka's barrels?
shilka had a shortest barrel's but how this barrels could Spray 23mm bullet to 5/5km??? could we hit target from 5/5km?
shilka had a shortest barrel's but how this barrels could Spray 23mm bullet to 5/5km??? could we hit target from 5/5km?
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/05/12 04:58 PM
Originally Posted By: milang
hpasp... could u explain about shilka's barrels?
shilka had a shortest barrel's but how this barrels could Spray 23mm bullet to 5/5km??? could we hit target from 5/5km?
shilka had a shortest barrel's but how this barrels could Spray 23mm bullet to 5/5km??? could we hit target from 5/5km?
Hmmm...
The gun has 2.6m lenght, and ~5t weight.
Why do you consider it short?
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/05/12 05:13 PM
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: milang
hpasp... could u explain about shilka's barrels?
shilka had a shortest barrel's but how this barrels could Spray 23mm bullet to 5/5km??? could we hit target from 5/5km?
shilka had a shortest barrel's but how this barrels could Spray 23mm bullet to 5/5km??? could we hit target from 5/5km?
Hmmm...
The gun has 2.6m lenght, and ~5t weight.
Why do you consider it short?
2.6 lenght
...... I thought shilka's barrel lenght is only 1 or 1.5 meters i think i should see one shilka with my eyes... not only photo
this is AZP-23 .. i guess in shilka used from this barrel's.................
Posted By: piston79
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/05/12 05:37 PM
Originally Posted By: milang
2.6 lenght
...... I thought shilka's barrel only 1 or 1.5 meters i think i should see one shilka with my eyes... not only photo
It won't help you... I guess you don't realize that big part of the barrels are inside the turret...
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/05/12 05:45 PM
whole gun length with flash suppressor: 2610mm
barrel length with flash suppressor: 2050mm
barrel length without flash suppressor: 1880mm
rifling length: 1730mm
The spraying has some interesting pattern...
... if you aim at low elevations, the spray pattern is an ellipse, with a horizontal major axis...
... at 45 degree, it becomes an ellipse, with a vertical major axis.
barrel length with flash suppressor: 2050mm
barrel length without flash suppressor: 1880mm
rifling length: 1730mm
The spraying has some interesting pattern...
... if you aim at low elevations, the spray pattern is an ellipse, with a horizontal major axis...
... at 45 degree, it becomes an ellipse, with a vertical major axis.
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/05/12 06:15 PM
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
whole gun length with flash suppressor: 2610mm
barrel length with flash suppressor: 2050mm
barrel length without flash suppressor: 1880mm
rifling length: 1730mm
The spraying has some interesting pattern...
... if you aim at low elevations, the spray pattern is an ellipse, with a horizontal major axis...
... at 45 degree, it becomes an ellipse, with a vertical major axis.
barrel length with flash suppressor: 2050mm
barrel length without flash suppressor: 1880mm
rifling length: 1730mm
The spraying has some interesting pattern...
... if you aim at low elevations, the spray pattern is an ellipse, with a horizontal major axis...
... at 45 degree, it becomes an ellipse, with a vertical major axis.
tnQ but this is some complexity for me ..... because i never ever seen shilka's PDF manual and i dont know what is shilka's mechanism radar
this is my easy question :
for example : one meteor 1 close to me at 40m altitude and distance around 5 km... so can i fire on it ? and how many percent is avalibe from this distance / Or all of bullets goes wrong???
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/05/12 06:27 PM
Originally Posted By: milang
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
whole gun length with flash suppressor: 2610mm
barrel length with flash suppressor: 2050mm
barrel length without flash suppressor: 1880mm
rifling length: 1730mm
The spraying has some interesting pattern...
... if you aim at low elevations, the spray pattern is an ellipse, with a horizontal major axis...
... at 45 degree, it becomes an ellipse, with a vertical major axis.
barrel length with flash suppressor: 2050mm
barrel length without flash suppressor: 1880mm
rifling length: 1730mm
The spraying has some interesting pattern...
... if you aim at low elevations, the spray pattern is an ellipse, with a horizontal major axis...
... at 45 degree, it becomes an ellipse, with a vertical major axis.
tnQ but this is some complexity for me ..... because i never ever seen shilka's PDF manual and i dont know what is shilka's mechanism radar
this is my easy question :
for example : one meteor 1 close to me at 40m altitude and distance around 5 km... so can i fire on it ?
You can fire at any range, the limitation against aerial target is originate from the self destruct timer of the OFZT bullet.
(between 5.5~11sec after shot)
The RPK has a maximum of 20km range.
(12km for smaller targets, like A-4)
The SRP can calculate impact point at a maximum of 10km range.
(only 18% of OFZT will fly (not pop up earlier) to that range)
You will receive "Est Dannie" from your SRP only at 5.5km impact range.
Operation manual advises high probability of kill at 2.5km.
Originally Posted By: milang
and how many percent is avalibe from this distance / Or all of bullets goes wrong???
You will have to experience it for yourself in the upcoming SAMSIM release.
It is important to understand that the "spraying" of bullets is intentional.
If all bullets would have been shot exactly to the calculated impact point, the slightest maneuver of the target would cause miss.
As we expect the target to maneuver during engagement, we spray an area where the target could be expected after evasion maneuver.
This area is optimized as target maneuver capability vs target range vs rate of fire.
(in case of Shilka, it is optimized for 2500m)
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/06/12 07:56 AM
guys ... target tracking with shilka is a full manual or we can set it on auto lock and auto fire?
shilka armed with this method or not?
shilka armed with this method or not?
Posted By: montieris
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/06/12 09:06 AM
Your question is already answered before.
Shilka has 6 operation modes, and the sim will simulate two of them (mode 1, and 3)
1. Aerial target tracking with RPK in three coordinates
2. Aerial or ground target tracking with optics, and RPK is measuring range only
3. Memory mode. (tracking target with last known parameters)
4. Aerial target tracking with optics only
5. Ground target tracking with optics only
6. Emergency mode (full manual target tracking )
As for auto fire; my guess is no, for security reasons there should be no auto fire option, to avoid friendly fire accidents like one at M247 Sergeant York demo.
Commander uses pistol grip like fire trigger.
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Shilka has 6 operation modes, and the sim will simulate two of them (mode 1, and 3)
1. Aerial target tracking with RPK in three coordinates
2. Aerial or ground target tracking with optics, and RPK is measuring range only
3. Memory mode. (tracking target with last known parameters)
4. Aerial target tracking with optics only
5. Ground target tracking with optics only
6. Emergency mode (full manual target tracking )
As for auto fire; my guess is no, for security reasons there should be no auto fire option, to avoid friendly fire accidents like one at M247 Sergeant York demo.
Commander uses pistol grip like fire trigger.
Click to reveal..
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/06/12 10:42 AM
Commander can fire using the pistol grip or pedal, angle officer can also fire if selected.
In the sim, the space key will be the fire button, and it will fire as long as you press it down.
(max 35s)
In the sim, the space key will be the fire button, and it will fire as long as you press it down.
(max 35s)
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/06/12 01:39 PM
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: milang
HPASP. could u create one demo / trailer video clip about shilka tracking and shooting on sam simulator ? PLEASE.
Nope, as I still reading the documentation, no programming started yet.
The basic fight would look like:
- check plotting board for incoming target general direction
- use radar sector search or manual search for target acquisition
- lock on target in angles and range (between 10~20km depending on target RCS)
- wait until target flies into destruction zone
- fire bursts length depending on your taste
- wait 3~5s until your burst arrives to the target
- detect if target falls apart
While you operated different SAM systems, the key word of firing was the "Nu Davay, Pusk!", helped by APP instruments.
At the Shilka, there is no effective destruction zone display (to save cost) just one lamp, called "Est Dannie" (have data).
While the absolute maximum range of the system is over 10km, the "Est Dannie" will illuminate only if the OFZT impact point is calculated to be closer than 5.5km.
The operational manual describes, that 2.5km is the effective range, where the Shilka gun system was optimized.
It can be read out by the commander...
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/06/12 02:41 PM
Originally Posted By: milang
[quote=Hpasp]Commander can fire using the pistol grip or pedal, angle officer can also fire if selected.
In the sim, the space key will be the fire button, and it will fire as long as you press it down.
(max 35s)
In the sim, the space key will be the fire button, and it will fire as long as you press it down.
(max 35s)
pistol grap??
u meant was that commander using pistol grap for firing 
there is no buttons for fire ? just grap pistol?
example : when i push space all of 4 barrels is firing
right?but i have only 80 bullets in my magazine!!!! ... so i dont want loose all of bullets
so can i fire only with one barrel or with only 2 barrels at emergency Ammunition Shortage ????? ....
Posted By: montieris
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/06/12 02:44 PM
Any sane commander won't be riding around with 80 ammo. Just call for resupply / push reload button.
And disabled barrels creates coverage gaps/holes in engagement window. Bad idea.
And disabled barrels creates coverage gaps/holes in engagement window. Bad idea.
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/06/12 03:30 PM
Originally Posted By: milang
Originally Posted By: milang
[quote=Hpasp]Commander can fire using the pistol grip or pedal, angle officer can also fire if selected.
In the sim, the space key will be the fire button, and it will fire as long as you press it down.
(max 35s)
In the sim, the space key will be the fire button, and it will fire as long as you press it down.
(max 35s)
pistol grap??
u meant was that commander using pistol grap for firing there is no buttons for fire ? just grap pistol?
example : when i push space all of 4 barrels is firing
right?but i have only 80 bullets in my magazine!!!! ... so i dont want loose all of bullets
so can i fire only with one barrel or with only 2 barrels at emergency Ammunition Shortage ????? ....
You can select of either shooting the upper or lower pair (against ground targets), or shooting all four (against aerial targets).
Posted By: jazjar
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/06/12 04:48 PM
Pistol grip is not called so because it is attatched to a pistol . Instead it is called that because It fires the primary weapons but looks like a grip on a pistol.
. Instead it is called that because It fires the primary weapons but looks like a grip on a pistol.
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/06/12 06:10 PM
Originally Posted By: milang
Originally Posted By: jazjar
Gepard definitely. 35mm Oerlikon, heavy armour. The 35mm allow it to be able to knock out most delicate fighter aircraft with one hit. Su-25 2-3 hits, and helicopters 2-3 hits. A-10 might take 3-5 hits though, if that makes any difference 
so could you help me ??? wich mobile system is allowed to compare with shilka??? tunguska?
Originally two parallel designs were engineered in the Soviet Union.
The ZSU-37-2 Enisey was the more capable, more expensive version, designed to protect advancing tank regiments, with 3km effective range.
The ZSU-23-4 Shilka was designed as the cheap version, planned to protect the flank mechanized regiments, with 2,5km effective range.
At the end, the economic solution was to field 4 Shilka per all type of regiments, accompanied by 4 Strela-1 (with 4km range).
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/06/12 07:01 PM
last question's
1_shilka like KUB could tracking 2 target and choose one of both to attack or just one tracking channel?
2_ why shilka do not armed with one target acquisition radar looks like armed on tunguska / tor-m1 / gepard / kub
how we can see second by second target flight path ???/
i dont think plotting board could help shillka commander because plotting board only refresh 10 seconds by 10 second
1_shilka like KUB could tracking 2 target and choose one of both to attack or just one tracking channel?
2_ why shilka do not armed with one target acquisition radar looks like armed on tunguska / tor-m1 / gepard / kub
how we can see second by second target flight path ???/
i dont think plotting board could help shillka commander because plotting board only refresh 10 seconds by 10 second
Posted By: jazjar
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/06/12 07:05 PM
I don't think either the shilka or the kub has two tracking channels. I think how it works on the shilka is the commander is radioed the target's rough location from the command vehicle, and then orients the radar in that direction for a manual search mode or sector search, and then shoots it when the target gets within 2.5 km or something of that nature.
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/06/12 07:08 PM
Originally Posted By: milang
last question's
1_shilka like KUB could tracking 2 target and choose one of both to attack or just one tracking channel?
1_shilka like KUB could tracking 2 target and choose one of both to attack or just one tracking channel?
Shilka could track and engage one target at a time, just like the other SAM systems, depicted in the sim.
Originally Posted By: milang
2_ why shilka do not armed with one target acquisition radar looks like armed on tunguska / tor-m1 / gepard / kub
how we can see second by second target flight path ???/
i dont think plotting board could help shillka commander because plotting board only refresh 10 seconds by 10 second
See answer above.
(Having several independent radar systems on board, does not always means better situational awareness, rater more incoming HARMs...)
Posted By: montieris
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/06/12 08:32 PM
What i'm rather curious is plotting board of PU-12.
Plotting board in this pic have 13x13 grid, same plotting board in SAMSIM.
So the situation awareness of PU-12 is aprox. 400x400km?
Then again, PU-12 commands 4 Shilkas and 4 Strelas, if working in pairs and taking into account PU-12 radio range aprox. 15km radius then whole battery covers one square on board / 35km. Not bad.
Also does "stationary" SAMs 75/125/200 have van/room with large (image below) plotting board or like one in PU-12?
Plotting board in this pic have 13x13 grid, same plotting board in SAMSIM.
So the situation awareness of PU-12 is aprox. 400x400km?
Then again, PU-12 commands 4 Shilkas and 4 Strelas, if working in pairs and taking into account PU-12 radio range aprox. 15km radius then whole battery covers one square on board / 35km. Not bad.
Also does "stationary" SAMs 75/125/200 have van/room with large (image below) plotting board or like one in PU-12?
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/06/12 08:50 PM
Originally Posted By: montieris
What i'm rather curious is plotting board of PU-12.
Plotting board in this pic have 13x13 grid, same plotting board in SAMSIM.
So the situation awareness of PU-12 is aprox. 400x400km?
Then again, PU-12 commands 4 Shilkas and 4 Strelas, if working in pairs and taking into account PU-12 radio range aprox. 15km radius then whole battery covers one square on board / 35km. Not bad.
Also does "stationary" SAMs 75/125/200 have van/room with large (image below) plotting board or like one in PU-12?
Plotting board in this pic have 13x13 grid, same plotting board in SAMSIM.
So the situation awareness of PU-12 is aprox. 400x400km?
Then again, PU-12 commands 4 Shilkas and 4 Strelas, if working in pairs and taking into account PU-12 radio range aprox. 15km radius then whole battery covers one square on board / 35km. Not bad.
Also does "stationary" SAMs 75/125/200 have van/room with large (image below) plotting board or like one in PU-12?
i search about pu-12 picture ......
what the hell is this????
Click to reveal..
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/06/12 09:45 PM
Originally Posted By: montieris
What i'm rather curious is plotting board of PU-12.
Plotting board in this pic have 13x13 grid, same plotting board in SAMSIM.
So the situation awareness of PU-12 is aprox. 400x400km?
Then again, PU-12 commands 4 Shilkas and 4 Strelas, if working in pairs and taking into account PU-12 radio range aprox. 15km radius then whole battery covers one square on board / 35km. Not bad.
Plotting board in this pic have 13x13 grid, same plotting board in SAMSIM.
So the situation awareness of PU-12 is aprox. 400x400km?
Then again, PU-12 commands 4 Shilkas and 4 Strelas, if working in pairs and taking into account PU-12 radio range aprox. 15km radius then whole battery covers one square on board / 35km. Not bad.
No.
The independent Army level radio-technical battalion had P-15/18 radar for target acquisition...
...Pu-12 was used to receive and share the information from higher level.
While Army level radio-technical troops shared information to army level KRUG units, and below...
... at division level, the KUB units used taret acquisition from the SOC...
... at regimental level, the Shilka and Strela-1 used this info.
... at battalion level, Strela-2 (manpads) used target prediction.
Posted By: jazjar
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/07/12 12:38 AM
I assume that strelas also used their passive radar detection sets as well, right?
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/13/12 08:05 AM
guysss... witch one had a better rate of fire ?
phalanx vulcan or shilka ???
as we know shilka can spray bullet 50 per seconds... so what about vulcan phalanx?
phalanx vulcan or shilka ???
as we know shilka can spray bullet 50 per seconds... so what about vulcan phalanx?
Posted By: Mdore
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/13/12 08:32 AM
The Phalanx had a selectable rate of fire, of either 3,000 or 4,500 rounds per minute. That's 50 or 75 a second.
Though really, if you want to compare similar vehicles, you'd be best comparing the ZSU-23-4 with the self propelled M163 VADS, not the static Phalanx. The M163 had a rate of fire of 3,000 rounds per minute.
Though really, if you want to compare similar vehicles, you'd be best comparing the ZSU-23-4 with the self propelled M163 VADS, not the static Phalanx. The M163 had a rate of fire of 3,000 rounds per minute.
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/13/12 06:03 PM
Probably 50 per sec is around the optimal rof against a Mach1.5 target at 2.5km range.
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/18/12 09:36 AM
Slowly the Commanders instruments are getting into life...
... some remarks on Shilka development:
- as we are only 3 of us sitting inside of the Shilka tower, compared to the hundreds of soldiers serving other SAM systems, the startup process is a bit more complicated. (turbine, gyro, hydraulics, firing computer, emitter heating, tube charging ...)
- the sound of the DG-4M1 gas turbine is pretty close to the dentist's drill, so I already hate it...
- Shilka manuals states when to switch, but not why...
... opposite to all other systems that were covered in SAMSIM before.
... some remarks on Shilka development:
- as we are only 3 of us sitting inside of the Shilka tower, compared to the hundreds of soldiers serving other SAM systems, the startup process is a bit more complicated. (turbine, gyro, hydraulics, firing computer, emitter heating, tube charging ...)
- the sound of the DG-4M1 gas turbine is pretty close to the dentist's drill, so I already hate it...
- Shilka manuals states when to switch, but not why...
... opposite to all other systems that were covered in SAMSIM before.
Posted By: montieris
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/18/12 07:46 PM
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
- as we are only 3 of us sitting inside of the Shilka tower, compared to the hundreds of soldiers serving other SAM systems, the startup process is a bit more complicated. (turbine, gyro, hydraulics, firing computer, emitter heating, tube charging ...)
- the sound of the DG-4M1 gas turbine is pretty close to the dentist's drill, so I already hate it...
- Will startup process be simplified or full(all noted systems above)?
- IMHO when tower hatch is closed; turbine noise is less annoying (isolated from high pitch)
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/19/12 06:32 AM
Originally Posted By: montieris
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
- as we are only 3 of us sitting inside of the Shilka tower, compared to the hundreds of soldiers serving other SAM systems, the startup process is a bit more complicated. (turbine, gyro, hydraulics, firing computer, emitter heating, tube charging ...)
- the sound of the DG-4M1 gas turbine is pretty close to the dentist's drill, so I already hate it...
- Will startup process be simplified or full(all noted systems above)?
All systems above will be fully simulated, just with reduced waiting times.
For example, while in reality the gyro takes 2,5min to spin up, in the sim it will be reduced to 25s, the anode heating will be accomplished only in 30s instead of realistic 3min etc...
Posted By: arkhangelsk
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/20/12 02:58 PM
Why not just set it to the realistic times? We have time compression after all that will bring the numbers back down for those who really need it...
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/20/12 06:07 PM
Originally Posted By: arkhangelsk
Why not just set it to the realistic times? We have time compression after all that will bring the numbers back down for those who really need it...
I see no point in waiting 3 minutes for one red lamp to turn into white...
... and you cannot do anything else until than.
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/23/12 11:15 AM
ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka work in progress screen-shots...
Commanders upper panel is getting into life.
Are you ready to use the Soviet military angular system by heart?
(East=00, South=15, West=30, North=45)
Commanders upper panel is getting into life.
Are you ready to use the Soviet military angular system by heart?
(East=00, South=15, West=30, North=45)
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/23/12 01:10 PM
WOW
what a beauty panel......
tracking panel develop as well.... awesome and perfect design and nice degrees around scope
but where is the boresight ???
what a beauty panel......
tracking panel develop as well.... awesome and perfect design and nice degrees around scope
but where is the boresight ???
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/23/12 05:51 PM
Super!!!
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/23/12 06:20 PM
HPasp
do you have any screen shot from range officer workplace work in progress
do you have any screen shot from range officer workplace work in progress
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/23/12 06:44 PM
Originally Posted By: milang
HPasp
do you have any screen shot from range officer workplace work in progress
do you have any screen shot from range officer workplace work in progress
Not much...
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/23/12 09:48 PM
Question to Hpasp?
And what it is, whether it is in active at all?
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/27/12 01:21 PM
Originally Posted By: max2012
Click to reveal..
Question to Hpasp?
And what it is, whether it is in active at all?
Just a plate, helping maintenance...
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/27/12 01:22 PM
Corrected Angle Officers instrument...
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/27/12 06:17 PM
I got it!
just a question in the Simulator needs it will be or not?
just a question in the Simulator needs it will be or not?
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/01/12 10:26 AM
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/01/12 02:30 PM
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
it seems shilka's radar had a little size .. but complexity than other system' until now we had on sam sim ... right?
Posted By: montieris
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/01/12 03:25 PM
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
This site itself contains loads of info about soviet equipment and technology.
Structured and detailed.
Very.. german
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/01/12 03:57 PM
Shilka radar is much smaller, and less powerful than we used to.
(maximum indicated range is 20km, maximum tracking range is 15km)
It is also cheaper, so you will need to do more switching...
You will also need to learn the Russian Imperial Radial system...
North - 00
East - 15
South - 30
West - 45
... just like the minute hand of the clock.
ps: also the Gun Dish is less valued and less targeted by Weasels and Jamming assets...
(maximum indicated range is 20km, maximum tracking range is 15km)
It is also cheaper, so you will need to do more switching...
You will also need to learn the Russian Imperial Radial system...
North - 00
East - 15
South - 30
West - 45
... just like the minute hand of the clock.
ps: also the Gun Dish is less valued and less targeted by Weasels and Jamming assets...
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/02/12 01:24 PM
This might be familiar from the KRUG...
Posted By: jazjar
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/02/12 07:04 PM
Is that a search mode?
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/02/12 08:28 PM
Originally Posted By: jazjar
Is that a search mode?
yes.
... and another one:
Posted By: jazjar
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/03/12 01:33 AM
Are the range gate buttons the red and black buttons at the bottom of the Range officer's screen?
Posted By: piston79
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/03/12 07:24 AM
Originally Posted By: jazjar
Are the range gate buttons the red and black buttons at the bottom of the Range officer's screen?
No...
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/03/12 04:02 PM
Originally Posted By: jazjar
Are the range gate buttons the red and black buttons at the bottom of the Range officer's screen?
No, that two switch and two button (below the four lamp) is used to control the 1RL33 (Gun Dish) radar.
(from left to right)
- preheating
- anode voltage
- high voltage on
- high voltage off
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/03/12 04:46 PM
I foresee an issue with the upcoming Shilka sim...
... as the Shilka ha 6+ modes of operations, and the sim will only allow 2, there will be numerous unused switches and buttons.
... as the Shilka ha 6+ modes of operations, and the sim will only allow 2, there will be numerous unused switches and buttons.
Posted By: piston79
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/03/12 05:09 PM
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
I foresee an issue with the upcoming Shilka sim..
That's because this is SAM sim, not GUN sim....
Posted By: jazjar
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/03/12 05:19 PM
Maybe, just maybe if samsim upgraded the engine, then those modes could be used, along with SA-13 and SA-9, but until then, we will have to live with that, that is my guess.
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/03/12 09:01 PM
question, why can't all active switches make the Shilka!
Next, there's a picture, where 60 minutes, we have that the radar gun or what?
and where these 4 lamps is that tracking or what?
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/03/12 09:08 PM
This is how I understand Radar!
This I understand the search targets, tracking!
Posted By: Architrav
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/04/12 08:12 PM
Are there any shared system elements with the KRUG? The radar display really look identical.
At least we won't have to worry about overheating gyros here. :P
At least we won't have to worry about overheating gyros here. :P
Posted By: Mdore
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/05/12 06:32 AM
Something just occurred to me. Since the ZSU-23-4 is such a short ranged system, will a single player be able to run the system? All the systems in the game actually are run by multiple humans at once, but because we're fighting targets 10-30km away, with quick work you can do all the jobs and make the system work. But with the ZSU-23-4, targets will be just 1-3km away. Will a single human be fast enough to do all the jobs?
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/05/12 08:20 AM
Originally Posted By: Architrav
Are there any shared system elements with the KRUG? The radar display really look identical.
At least we won't have to worry about overheating gyros here. :P
At least we won't have to worry about overheating gyros here. :P
You will have to worried about our inbuilt gyro, to reach operating temperature...
http://www.rwd-mb3.de/pages/zsu23f.htm
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/05/12 08:33 AM
Originally Posted By: Mdore
Something just occurred to me. Since the ZSU-23-4 is such a short ranged system, will a single player be able to run the system? All the systems in the game actually are run by multiple humans at once, but because we're fighting targets 10-30km away, with quick work you can do all the jobs and make the system work. But with the ZSU-23-4, targets will be just 1-3km away. Will a single human be fast enough to do all the jobs?
It will be kind of an adrenaline rush...
... but Shilka has the following ranges:
1RL33 Radar (Gun Dish)
maximum detection range: 20km
detection range for small targets: 12~15km
23mm gun system
maximum range where firing solution is computed: 9km
maximum range of fire: 4km
maximum range of effective fire: 2,5km
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/06/12 07:20 PM
The ZSU-23-4V1 model (selected for the SIM) was exported only into 3 countries.
Eastern Germany, Hungary, and Egypt.
Small firing zone...
Eastern Germany, Hungary, and Egypt.
Small firing zone...
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/06/12 07:33 PM
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
The ZSU-23-4V1 model (selected for the SIM) was exported only into 3 countries.
Eastern Germany, Hungary, and Egypt.
Small firing zone...
Eastern Germany, Hungary, and Egypt.
Small firing zone...
and why this shilka exported to only 3 countries ???
this shilka is very classfied for other countries?what about famous iraqian shilka?
PS: hpasp... do u adding bullet balestic flight path into the sim ?
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/06/12 08:16 PM
Originally Posted By: milang
and why this shilka exported to only 3 countries ???
this shilka is very classfied for other countries?what about famous iraqian shilka?
Shilka had several versions becoming one after another as incremental developments batches, so one version was available only for few years.
ZSU-23-4 - first small batch for troop testing
ZSU-23-4V - only for Soviet Army
ZSU-23-4V1 - first export version received by GDR, Hungary and Egypt only from 1969 to 1970
ZSU-23-4M1 - only for Soviet Army
ZSU-23-4M2 - only for Soviet Army
ZSU-23-4M3 - only for Soviet Army
ZSU-23-4M - second (main) export version received by all foreign customers from 1970 to 1980
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/06/12 09:18 PM
Great Pictures!
Thanks Hpasp!
Question and Shilka can Phantom knock down?
Probably only at low altitude.
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/07/12 09:51 AM
Originally Posted By: max2012
Great Pictures!
Thanks Hpasp!
Question and Shilka can Phantom knock down?
Probably only at low altitude.
of course im not hpasp but... as i know at iran and iraq war ... this shilka worked so perfect at several scnarios
iranian phantom pilot was really feared from iraqian shilka around cities
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/08/12 12:39 PM
I understood, but the f-4 Phantom fly at high altitude.
Or is he here in the Mission flew at low altitudes
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/08/12 02:09 PM
as i know all of iriaf phantom over iraq hit or crash always al low pass flying...
they fly low pass over iraq for run from iraqi sa-3b and sa-6A but at that situation shilka was a nightmare for them
I understood, but the f-4 Phantom fly at high altitude.
Or is he here in the Mission flew at low altitudes
they fly low pass over iraq for run from iraqi sa-3b and sa-6A but at that situation shilka was a nightmare for them
Originally Posted By: max2012
I understood, but the f-4 Phantom fly at high altitude.
Or is he here in the Mission flew at low altitudes
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/10/12 06:38 PM
hpasp... do you have any screen shot from shilka's AAR & 3DAAR ?
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/11/12 12:45 PM
Originally Posted By: milang
hpasp... do you have any screen shot from shilka's AAR & 3DAAR ?
This is pretty far from final, but it will look similar to this...
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/11/12 04:22 PM
WOW... so Thriller , you are the best hpasp , you are the best
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/11/12 07:10 PM
23x151B OFZT (HEI-T) ammo
Posted By: jazjar
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/11/12 07:16 PM
Yep, when the round is fired, the majority of it is vaporized, only the tip flies.
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/11/12 07:21 PM
Originally Posted By: jazjar
Yep, when the round is fired, the majority of it is vaporized, only the tip flies.
The flying part is 10,8cm long, with 23mm diameter...
<---MG-25-fuse------><-------------------charge--------------------><--tracer-->
Posted By: Lieste
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/11/12 08:34 PM
Hmm. Well the primer is ignited, which causes combustion of the propellant charge within the cartridge case.
The cartridge case obturates the breach area, and is ejected after the round exits the muzzle ~ so this isn't 'vaporised'.
The shell, with the nose fuse and explosive payload in the main body is ejected at something like 1000m/s ~ Mach 2.94
On firing the fuse initiator is setback into the firing pin, and the friction/impact sets the fuse ignition train in progress... either impact on a hard surface, or completion of the burning of the chemical time-fuse intiates the second stage of the fuse train, and a high order detonation of the main explosive. Which bursts the shell body into hundreds of small fragments.
All that is 'vaporised' (or more correctly 'combusted') within the weapon is 70g of smokeless powder.
Shell payload is 15/12g (plus the fuse train of 'a few' grams of HE in OZ/OZT versions of a total fused weight of 184/188g.
The cartridge case (lacquered steel) is ejected as part of the loading cycle before the next round is loaded.
The cartridge case obturates the breach area, and is ejected after the round exits the muzzle ~ so this isn't 'vaporised'.
The shell, with the nose fuse and explosive payload in the main body is ejected at something like 1000m/s ~ Mach 2.94
On firing the fuse initiator is setback into the firing pin, and the friction/impact sets the fuse ignition train in progress... either impact on a hard surface, or completion of the burning of the chemical time-fuse intiates the second stage of the fuse train, and a high order detonation of the main explosive. Which bursts the shell body into hundreds of small fragments.
All that is 'vaporised' (or more correctly 'combusted') within the weapon is 70g of smokeless powder.
Shell payload is 15/12g (plus the fuse train of 'a few' grams of HE in OZ/OZT versions of a total fused weight of 184/188g.
The cartridge case (lacquered steel) is ejected as part of the loading cycle before the next round is loaded.
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/11/12 10:40 PM
As I understand it is a Projectile, not bullet
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/11/12 10:43 PM
Yes really Super!
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/14/12 12:28 PM
The question when a new release is planned around the Shilka.
In December, at the end of may or at least tell me about.
Approximately at least!
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/14/12 12:37 PM
No idea...
... end of the year earliest.
... end of the year earliest.
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/14/12 06:08 PM
Well it already is anyway. Thank you!
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/14/12 06:14 PM
Question, and why you cannot leave out at Ashuluk with Shilka, you can leave.
As with other \"non-historical scenarios\" with Shilka make possible.
Would like to sample the Shilka to Tomahawk example!
Do non-historical Scenarios with Shilka can or not?
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/14/12 06:18 PM
Honestly my favorite in this Simulator \"Dvina\" of all ...
I don't even know why Dvina likes, just a very friendly interface.
Dvina is my favorite of them all!
It I really like it.
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/14/12 06:28 PM
Originally Posted By: max2012
Honestly my favorite in this Simulator \"Dvina\" of all ...
I don't even know why Dvina likes, just a very friendly interface.
Dvina is my favorite of them all!
It I really like it.
One of the testers of the SAMSIM was served on Dvina/Volhov/Neva systems as FCO and Battery Commander.
He also liked the Dvina most, as the most intuitive system to use.
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/14/12 06:37 PM
He's right, I am of the same opinion as him!
Intuitively, I like very much very Dvina easy understandable.
With a very intuitive, user-friendly interface, devices like etc.
Hpasp developer invested forces to immediately clear.
My personal opinion!
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/14/12 06:54 PM
I hope, that Shilka will become your instant favorite
Compared to a SAM battery, we are considered as a LOW VALUE target, so Weasel pilots had to make really good excuses if they are wasting expensive ARM missiles against us.
Compared to a SAM battery, we are considered as a LOW VALUE target, so Weasel pilots had to make really good excuses if they are wasting expensive ARM missiles against us.
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/14/12 08:11 PM
I think Yes, because of the pictures just something
Yes it is like seeing Shilka.
Only System which I don't really like it in the Simulator with the C-125 Neva.
S-125 Neva I don't really like do not know her hard.
I like all the System except S-125 Neva!
She is the only one of all the S-125 for me is difficult and the interface is not very pleasant for me personally.
Yeah and she's the S-125 may not shoot at targets in the Dogon.
I don't know why that is, but with S-125 Neva-I didn't like I don't even know why well here so.
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/14/12 08:14 PM
Originally Posted By: max2012
I think Yes, because of the pictures just something
Yes it is like seeing Shilka.
Only System which I don't really like it in the Simulator with the C-125 Neva.
S-125 Neva I don't really like do not know her hard.
I like all the System except S-125 Neva!
She is the only one of all the S-125 for me is difficult and the interface is not very pleasant for me personally.
Yeah and she's the S-125 may not shoot at targets in the Dogon.
I don't know why that is, but with S-125 Neva-I didn't like I don't even know why well here so.
I think that there are other guys, who might find the Neva as an unpleasant/effective system...
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/14/12 08:15 PM
My personal opinion of course about S-125 It I don't really like, something wrong, when I first saw it.
Dvina, Volkhov, KRUG and Vega, and Shilka likes, except S-125 Neva.
S-125 Neva too good but not for me, my personal opinion.
Something wrong
Dvina, Volkhov, KRUG and Vega, and Shilka likes, except S-125 Neva.
S-125 Neva too good but not for me, my personal opinion.
Something wrong
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/14/12 08:52 PM
Question, and who is in the picture?
Posted By: Vympel
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/14/12 09:38 PM
Dale Zelko and Zoltan Dani. American Stealth pilot, and Serbian colonel in Air De fence who is one of the people that shot Zelko down in 1999.
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/14/12 10:46 PM
Clearly I realized I didn't know!
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/16/12 12:10 PM
Full ballistic behavior of the 23x151B ammunition OFZT/BZT will be simulated according to the operations manuals...
... so you are not only aiming before the target, but also above it.
... so you are not only aiming before the target, but also above it.
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/16/12 12:40 PM
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Full ballistic behavior of the 23x151B ammunition OFZT/BZT will be simulated according to the operations manuals...
... so you are not only aiming before the target, but also above it.
... so you are not only aiming before the target, but also above it.
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/16/12 01:05 PM
i cant wait anymore hpasp
c'mon ... i wait around 365 days for see one new system.... please publish this very sooon
PS: guyz please check zsu-23-4 shilka's topic viewers
more than 10 thousand viewers!
hpasp i guess sam's lovers want to see more different system's on samsim
c'mon ... i wait around 365 days for see one new system
.... please publish this very sooonPS: guyz please check zsu-23-4 shilka's topic viewers
more than 10 thousand viewers!hpasp i guess sam's lovers want to see more different system's on samsim
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/16/12 03:36 PM
serveral question around the shilka
1.how we can fire on jammer targer? with laser range finder?
2.hpasp do u have some picture about laser range finder?
3.could we armed shilka's ashuluk targets with dm/cm jammer like other systems ashuluk's or not?
4.could we fire from just single barrel for saving our bullets or we can fire just with double barrels and higher ?
5. if one target hit or down.. without IADS how we can know target downed?
1.how we can fire on jammer targer? with laser range finder?
2.hpasp do u have some picture about laser range finder?
3.could we armed shilka's ashuluk targets with dm/cm jammer like other systems ashuluk's or not?
4.could we fire from just single barrel for saving our bullets or we can fire just with double barrels and higher ?
5. if one target hit or down.. without IADS how we can know target downed?
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/16/12 04:05 PM
Originally Posted By: milang
serveral question around the shilka
1.how we can fire on jammer targer? with laser range finder?
2.hpasp do u have some picture about laser range finder?
3.could we armed shilka's ashuluk targets with dm/cm jammer like other systems ashuluk's or not?
4.could we fire from just single barrel for saving our bullets or we can fire just with double barrels and higher ?
5. if one target hit or down.. without IADS how we can know target downed?
1.how we can fire on jammer targer? with laser range finder?
2.hpasp do u have some picture about laser range finder?
3.could we armed shilka's ashuluk targets with dm/cm jammer like other systems ashuluk's or not?
4.could we fire from just single barrel for saving our bullets or we can fire just with double barrels and higher ?
5. if one target hit or down.. without IADS how we can know target downed?
ZSU-23-4V1 has no laser range finder. Hungary received 22 pieces between 1969-70.
Each Hungarian tank brigade was equipped with a Shilka battery, containing 4 vehicles each.
8th Kinizsi Pl tank brigade, at Tapolca
25th Klapka Gyrgy tank brigade, at Tata
31st Hunyadi Jnos tank brigade, at Rtsg
35th Dob Istvn tank brigade, at Verpelt
145th independent tank brigade, at Szabadszlls
At the Drgelypalnk live firing range, 2 additional vehicles were kept.
You will be surprised, but while we are sitting in the Shilka, we are considered such a LOW VALUE TARGET compared to SAM systems, that no EXPENSIVE Standoff Jammers, or Weasels will bother themselves about us.
(Also we have a low powered narrow pencil beam COSRO antenna...)
Weasels actually could face court martial if they launch an expensive HARM missile against the Gun Dish.
Shilka is to be fired by two barrels against ground targets, and 4 barrels against flying targets.
The OFZT has an impact delay fuse, so it detonates inside of the target, demolishing it.
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/16/12 06:44 PM
The problem is that Hpasp one developer it simply cannot make new systems 10 one, are simply unable to.
Need a team, then there will be the new System.
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/19/12 08:13 PM
SRP assisted automatic fire, with automatic target (F-111F) tracking above Tripoli.
Note the building at the left side of the historical shot.
Note the building at the left side of the historical shot.
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/19/12 08:39 PM
Originally Posted By: Mdore
Something just occurred to me. Since the ZSU-23-4 is such a short ranged system, will a single player be able to run the system? All the systems in the game actually are run by multiple humans at once, but because we're fighting targets 10-30km away, with quick work you can do all the jobs and make the system work. But with the ZSU-23-4, targets will be just 1-3km away. Will a single human be fast enough to do all the jobs?
I really feel confident and easy to track incoming F-111F planes above Tripoli in the current Beta version.
Target angle tracking is always above 15km, range tracking happens between 12~15km.
It is just surprising/frightening when the SRP opens fire at 2,5km ...
BRRRRRRRRRRR...
Posted By: montieris
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/19/12 09:40 PM
Respect! For such a historically accurate scenarios.
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/21/12 03:41 PM
Shilka has quite a number of "steam driven" instruments, that was designed on system cost saving.
One is the Tu instrument, that is similar to the APP that created electronic display markings in more expensive SAM's.
(It shows 4.17s)
You will love it, when the dials starts rolling...
One is the Tu instrument, that is similar to the APP that created electronic display markings in more expensive SAM's.
(It shows 4.17s)
You will love it, when the dials starts rolling...
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/21/12 08:48 PM
shilks have more switch's for switching 
it could be so hard and needed so faster user for guide it like COW BOY !
it could be so hard and needed so faster user for guide it
like COW BOY !
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/21/12 09:18 PM
Well, good for me than more switches the better
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/23/12 10:29 AM
While I play (test) more and more missions with the Beta version of the Shilka SIM, I got the impression that it is quite a handsome, user friendly system.
I have similar feeling towards it, as I have for the Dvina.
I have similar feeling towards it, as I have for the Dvina.
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/23/12 10:45 AM
hpasp do u have any screen shot from after action report? not 3daar .. only aar
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/23/12 10:52 AM
Originally Posted By: milang
hpasp do u have any screen shot from after action report? not 3daar .. only aar
That part of the code was not touched so far, but any idea is welcomed.
Here we are not launching few missiles, but spraying 2000 bullets.
I have no idea, how to show these in the AAR.
(best bet so far is to show the start and the end of a burst only)
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/24/12 09:26 AM
Another "steam driven" instrument...
... it is the target altitude indicator.
Lets try, and read out the altitude of the target!
(Who served on the Shilka earlier, please keep quiet
... it is the target altitude indicator.
Lets try, and read out the altitude of the target!
(Who served on the Shilka earlier, please keep quiet
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/24/12 10:53 AM
Question and how to define the height?
What is the minimal target altitude?
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/24/12 11:07 AM
Originally Posted By: max2012
Question and how to define the height?
What is the minimal target altitude?
Target height is relative to the Shilka.
You can shoot 4,5 degree below the horizon.
Posted By: piston79
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/24/12 12:10 PM
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Lets try, and read out the altitude of the target!
(Who served on the Shilka earlier, please keep quiet
(Who served on the Shilka earlier, please keep quiet
2415?
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/24/12 01:53 PM
Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Lets try, and read out the altitude of the target!
(Who served on the Shilka earlier, please keep quiet
(Who served on the Shilka earlier, please keep quiet
2415?
Posted By: piston79
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/24/12 02:42 PM
The upper one should be in hektometers x 10, the another one - hektometers x 0.1....
Posted By: Architrav
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/24/12 05:49 PM
Without looking at the answers I'd say 2412 m.
Edit: Ah, damn. Are you sure about that, piston? Seems unnecessarily complicated, I'd guess the factors are linked to scales you could switch inbetween.
Edit: Ah, damn. Are you sure about that, piston? Seems unnecessarily complicated, I'd guess the factors are linked to scales you could switch inbetween.
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/24/12 06:25 PM
I plan to add more of these "ancient" SRP indicators...
... they are cheap, small, and rotating fast.
At the Commander's seat, you will concentrate those small rotating instruments, like him...
... they are cheap, small, and rotating fast.
At the Commander's seat, you will concentrate those small rotating instruments, like him...
Posted By: piston79
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/24/12 06:37 PM
2112?
... and check your PM!
... and check your PM!
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/24/12 06:55 PM
Originally Posted By: piston79
2112?
... and check your PM!
... and check your PM!
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/24/12 06:57 PM
between 2000 and 2500 right?
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/24/12 07:28 PM
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: milang
hpasp do u have any screen shot from after action report? not 3daar .. only aar
That part of the code was not touched so far, but any idea is welcomed.
Here we are not launching few missiles, but spraying 2000 bullets.
I have no idea, how to show these in the AAR.
(best bet so far is to show the start and the end of a burst only)
one system without AAR is a BIG mistake hpasp
here is my idea: countering bullet when we begin to fire !
show to user witch bullet hit and killed target ! for example: target hit by 658th bullet and killed by 1589TH bullet and how many bullet fired?
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/24/12 08:08 PM
Originally Posted By: milang
between 2000 and 2500 right?
Posted By: Lieste
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/24/12 10:18 PM
~1200m at range ~2400m
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/24/12 10:57 PM
Originally Posted By: Lieste
~1200m at range ~2400m
That is the H - target altitude indicator.
The Shilka commander has no target range indicator, but he has the "Tu", flight time of the bullet till the target...
... and he knows:
- 4.17s = 2100m
- 5.5s = 2500m
- 11s = 3800m
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/25/12 06:19 PM
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Another "steam driven" instrument...
... it is the target altitude indicator.
Lets try, and read out the altitude of the target!
(Who served on the Shilka earlier, please keep quiet
... it is the target altitude indicator.
Lets try, and read out the altitude of the target!
(Who served on the Shilka earlier, please keep quiet
Click to reveal..
1240m
GO - 10gm (10 hekto* meters) - 1km per mark [lower scale]
TO - 0.1gm (0.1 hekto* meters) - 10m per mark [upper scale]
* 1 hekto meter is 100m
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/25/12 07:27 PM
The important Fi instrument, showing 500 angular mil (30 degree) gun elevation.
Posted By: wasserfall
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/29/12 09:27 PM
Ugh i can't wait to try this!! Do you have a release date?
Posted By: Vympel
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/29/12 10:05 PM
I have an idea for AAR. Maybe put hit ratio per burst. How many bullets fired and how many hit the target.
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/30/12 10:32 AM
The last indicator of the SRP (mechanical fire solution calculator), "Betha-u" indicating that the tower is looking West (45-00).
Posted By: Architrav
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/30/12 12:30 PM
It has a mechanical calculator? Wouldn't the radar require an analogue computer anyway?
Can you perhaps tell us a bit about how Shilka tracks a target and does the target calculations?
Can you perhaps tell us a bit about how Shilka tracks a target and does the target calculations?
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/30/12 12:58 PM
Originally Posted By: Architrav
It has a mechanical calculator? Wouldn't the radar require an analogue computer anyway?
Can you perhaps tell us a bit about how Shilka tracks a target and does the target calculations?
Can you perhaps tell us a bit about how Shilka tracks a target and does the target calculations?
During development, the main aim was the creation of a robust and cheap system, that each (!!!) WarPact regiment could have equipped with 4 of these vehicles.
The small, low power, pencil beamed 1RL33 (Gun Dish) is providing only the target coordinates, and speed.
The 180kg (!!!) SRP (mechanical fire solution calculator) has ~60 electrical motors, and ~110 axis with associated gears.
1, Vx unit
2, Vh unit
3, Beta-u unit with K1*
4, X unit
7, H unit*
8, Fi unit*
9, Tu unit*
10 BP control unit*
11, Y unit
13, Vy unit
* visible in SAMSIM
It takes the whole space before the commander.
From the X,Y,H and Vx, Vy, Vh coordinates provided by the 1RL33 (Gun Dish) radar, it calculates the Tu time, when the bullet would hit the target. From this, it calculates Fi (elevation plus bullet drop angle) and Beta-u (azimuth lead angle).
The gyroscope will provide K1 data in case the vehicle moves, to stabilize the firing solution.
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/30/12 01:23 PM
I understand that the computer with our understanding?
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/30/12 01:25 PM
A question like that?
The minimum height of the shelling targets the Shilka what?
At 100 meters, can hit a target less than 100 meters?
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/30/12 01:29 PM
As I understand it to release more very soon.
I thought at the end of 2012, you yourself said at the end of the year!
Probably at the end of December.
I don't chase them away certainly do quietly, just I was thinking at the end of this year for this calculation.
Beta version can be put as an example was a S-200 Vega then
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/01/12 08:50 AM
Originally Posted By: max2012
A question like that?
The minimum height of the shelling targets the Shilka what?
At 100 meters, can hit a target less than 100 meters?
It has not that altitude limitation, because it does not utilize radio proxy fuse.
It can be effectively used against lightly armed vehicles 1km away.
The only limiting factor is maximum gun depression. (- 00-85)
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/01/12 06:22 PM
That is at a height of 100 meters.
An example of a Tomahawk missile to shoot down as an example of the Shilka may likely end.
Posted By: piston79
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/01/12 07:24 PM
"Shilka"'s secret life:
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/01/12 07:58 PM
Originally Posted By: piston79
"Shilka"'s secret life:
do u have any *gainful* secret life ?
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/01/12 09:07 PM
Originally Posted By: piston79
"Shilka"'s secret life:
I could really hardly imagine any situation, when an F-22A Raptor flying below 1500m, could meet a Shilka...
Posted By: piston79
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/02/12 07:21 AM
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
I could really hardly imagine any situation, when an F-22A Raptor flying below 1500m, could meet a Shilka...
I believe this is a result against the models from "Have Blue" program... And Vega-31 meets some "Boforce" on it's way to the ground after "Neva"'s deadly kiss...
Posted By: Lonewolf357
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/02/12 09:59 PM
Originally Posted By: piston79
"Shilka"'s secret life:
Wow, where did this came from?! It's a very interesting stuff!
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/06/12 11:30 AM
While the earlier SAM systems simulated in SAMSIM had the luxury of spraying its prey with thousands of fragments, the Zeus (ZSU-23-4 Shilka) bullets has to directly hit their targets.
This is when target aspect, related to the incoming bullet angle comes into play...
... it has direct relation of the chances, where bullets will achieve kill or just hit.
Red area, where an OFZT hit will cause a kill.
White area, where OFZT hit would cause only damage.
This is when target aspect, related to the incoming bullet angle comes into play...
... it has direct relation of the chances, where bullets will achieve kill or just hit.
Red area, where an OFZT hit will cause a kill.
White area, where OFZT hit would cause only damage.
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/06/12 08:24 PM
Shilka may mean this plane in the picture at low altitude.
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/08/12 04:44 PM
First blood over Tripoli...
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/08/12 06:45 PM
Just great looks!
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/08/12 06:47 PM
Question K3 in the Dvina River and what better targets to shoot.
Low end and for some example can be and at what distance a better more efficient shoot?
Posted By: Vympel
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/08/12 06:50 PM
Hi, are targets going to try to evade us? In this 3DAAR it is flying strait and level. Will it change in final version?
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/09/12 11:04 AM
hpasp.. could u explain about shilka's controller ?
could we use mouse in this version or we have to work only with keyboard ?
could we use mouse in this version or we have to work only with keyboard ?
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/09/12 01:52 PM
Originally Posted By: farokh
hpasp.. could u explain about shilka's controller ?
could we use mouse in this version or we have to work only with keyboard ?
could we use mouse in this version or we have to work only with keyboard ?
Mouse for the switches, the Z/X/C/S keys for changing screens, and the SPACE key for the trigger.
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/09/12 02:06 PM
Originally Posted By: Vympel
Hi, are targets going to try to evade us? In this 3DAAR it is flying strait and level. Will it change in final version?
The (AVQ-26 Pave Tack forward looking infrared (FLIR) and laser designator system) of the F-111F had some limitations.
When you tossed the four LGB on ballistic path, the Weapon System Operator had to keep the target aimed in the crosshair...
... during this time, no hard evading was allowed.
Only at the last 5 second of the ballistic flight of the LGB's, when the laser is fired to aim the bombs.
RED - LGB's on ballistic path
YELLOW - Leaser target
And exactly this 5 second is when they fly over the harbor Zeus...
... one F-111F is known to evaded the ZEUS tracers, and her bombs hit the French Embassy, causing diplomatic problems...
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/10/12 09:17 PM
First try...
... it will be improved.
3DAAR
AAR
... it will be improved.
3DAAR
AAR
Click to reveal..
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/11/12 09:20 AM
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
First try...
... it will be improved.
3DAAR
AAR
... it will be improved.
3DAAR
AAR
Click to reveal..
what is the aimpont error sir?
Posted By: Vympel
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/11/12 10:08 AM
Thanks Hpasp for the explanation.
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/17/12 02:08 PM
Shooting small (Meteor-1) RC planes at the Drgelypalnk firing range in Hungary.
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/17/12 09:48 PM
I wonder will it be in training?
Could buy a Tomahawk cruise missile the Americans old there.
Or our old missile Complex "Dvina" example.
Could buy a Tomahawk cruise missile the Americans old there.
Or our old missile Complex "Dvina" example.
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/18/12 07:50 PM
3DAAR & AAR of a Drgelypalnk firing exercise, against two Meteor-1 target.
http://www.mediafire.com/?ueh0aq6m314hqzp
http://www.mediafire.com/?ueh0aq6m314hqzp
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/18/12 08:47 PM
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
3DAAR & AAR of a Drgelypalnk firing exercise, against two Meteor-1 target.
http://www.mediafire.com/?ueh0aq6m314hqzp
http://www.mediafire.com/?ueh0aq6m314hqzp
dear hpasp i really tnx for you hard efforts for rising up samsim
can i say one idea about shilka?
in this aar i cant see how many bullets fired on target?
it is so important how many bullets fired or...
...how many bullets fired for each target
aar
Click to reveal..
and one question: if one bzt bullet hit to f-111 or phantoms body... they will be kill or just ofzt can kill ?
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/19/12 04:00 PM
best single video from shilka on youtube
enjoy.......
enjoy.......
Posted By: FlandersRevenge
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/19/12 09:24 PM
Wait, Zeus 23 can shoot missiles now?
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/20/12 07:08 AM
Originally Posted By: FlandersRevenge
Wait, Zeus 23 can shoot missiles now?
That is a Polish upgrade called ZSU-23-4MP Biala.
http://infowsparcie.net/wria/o_autorze/zsu_23_4_mp.html
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/20/12 03:14 PM
dear hpasp i really tnx for you hard efforts for rising up samsim
can i say one idea about shilka?
in this aar i cant see how many bullets fired on target?
it is so important how many bullets fired or...
...how many bullets fired for each targetthumbsup
and one question: if one bzt bullet hit to f-111 or phantoms body... they will be kill or just ofzt can kill ?
Bullet count is a good idea, I will add it to the AAR.
OFZT will score a kill if it hits any part of a plane
BZT will score a kill only if it hits the body, and score a hit if it hits the wings.
can i say one idea about shilka?
in this aar i cant see how many bullets fired on target?
it is so important how many bullets fired or...
...how many bullets fired for each targetthumbsup
and one question: if one bzt bullet hit to f-111 or phantoms body... they will be kill or just ofzt can kill ?
Bullet count is a good idea, I will add it to the AAR.
OFZT will score a kill if it hits any part of a plane
BZT will score a kill only if it hits the body, and score a hit if it hits the wings.
Posted By: Lieste
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/20/12 06:56 PM
That sounds... ...wildly optimistic.
A single round *can* kill if it hits anywhere, but many aircraft have also returned with damage from cannon rounds of even larger calibre weapons. I'd got with the same scheme, but with a non-ensured kill with each 'damaging hit'. Something around 25-30% sounds 'about' right.
A single round *can* kill if it hits anywhere, but many aircraft have also returned with damage from cannon rounds of even larger calibre weapons. I'd got with the same scheme, but with a non-ensured kill with each 'damaging hit'. Something around 25-30% sounds 'about' right.
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/20/12 07:44 PM
Originally Posted By: Lieste
That sounds... ...wildly optimistic.
A single round *can* kill if it hits anywhere, but many aircraft have also returned with damage from cannon rounds of even larger calibre weapons. I'd got with the same scheme, but with a non-ensured kill with each 'damaging hit'. Something around 25-30% sounds 'about' right.
A single round *can* kill if it hits anywhere, but many aircraft have also returned with damage from cannon rounds of even larger calibre weapons. I'd got with the same scheme, but with a non-ensured kill with each 'damaging hit'. Something around 25-30% sounds 'about' right.
Please do not underestimate the OFZT capabilities, as nobody who ever faced it does it.
If it impacts into an airframe, than it has a slight delay until detonation (waiting for the OFZT shell body to fully submerge into the target) then it detonates, and sprays fragments from the inside of the target fuselage.
Also when you will be proficient with the Zeus, you will achieve at least 10~15 direct hits on each of your targets.
(Yes I seen Israeli F-15 returning without a wing, but we will face different (easier) targets here... F-4, Mirage-III, A-4, F-111)
Posted By: Lieste
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/20/12 08:21 PM
I don't think I am underestimating the round at all. A 1 in 3 SSKP is very high for a 20-23mm round ~ and a 10 round burst would be lethal most of the time if that is the case...
The skin of most fast jets is fairly substancial, and not every hit will be at a fair enough angle to permit penetration of the round. Other areas may not produce critical damage ~ pilot, engine compressor area, fuel feed lines are usually reckoned to be vulnerable, elsewhere the same target may be far less so, though still capable of producing a mission kill, or possibly the eventual loss far off the target.
The skin of most fast jets is fairly substancial, and not every hit will be at a fair enough angle to permit penetration of the round. Other areas may not produce critical damage ~ pilot, engine compressor area, fuel feed lines are usually reckoned to be vulnerable, elsewhere the same target may be far less so, though still capable of producing a mission kill, or possibly the eventual loss far off the target.
Posted By: Mdore
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/21/12 03:00 AM
Hpasp, those left two pictures are frames from a video. It is produced by special effects, it's not a real video.
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/21/12 08:14 AM
Originally Posted By: Lieste
... The skin of most fast jets is fairly substancial, and not every hit will be at a fair enough angle to permit penetration of the round.
Do not agree on that.
The 23mm ammo originally was used by the Ilyushin Il-2 ground-attack aircraft (Shturmovik) against armored ground targets in WW2.
The BZT has 2cm (!!!) RHA perforating capability at 1000m, so in my opinion it will perforate all flying targets, than will ignite those.
The OFZT sprays its hot fragments over ~1.5m radius.
Originally Posted By: Lieste
Other areas may not produce critical damage ~ pilot, engine compressor area, fuel feed lines are usually reckoned to be vulnerable, elsewhere the same target may be far less so, though still capable of producing a mission kill, or possibly the eventual loss far off the target.
This is taken in account in the sim.
All planes has different hit profile, and each ammo acts as a separate flying object.
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/21/12 11:03 AM
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
dear hpasp i really tnx for you hard efforts for rising up samsim
can i say one idea about shilka?
in this aar i cant see how many bullets fired on target?
it is so important how many bullets fired or...
...how many bullets fired for each targetthumbsup
and one question: if one bzt bullet hit to f-111 or phantoms body... they will be kill or just ofzt can kill ?
Bullet count is a good idea, I will add it to the AAR.
OFZT will score a kill if it hits any part of a plane
BZT will score a kill only if it hits the body, and score a hit if it hits the wings.
can i say one idea about shilka?
in this aar i cant see how many bullets fired on target?
it is so important how many bullets fired or...
...how many bullets fired for each targetthumbsup
and one question: if one bzt bullet hit to f-111 or phantoms body... they will be kill or just ofzt can kill ?
Bullet count is a good idea, I will add it to the AAR.
OFZT will score a kill if it hits any part of a plane
BZT will score a kill only if it hits the body, and score a hit if it hits the wings.
New AAR:
Click to reveal..
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/21/12 11:49 AM
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
dear hpasp i really tnx for you hard efforts for rising up samsim
can i say one idea about shilka?
in this aar i cant see how many bullets fired on target?
it is so important how many bullets fired or...
...how many bullets fired for each targetthumbsup
and one question: if one bzt bullet hit to f-111 or phantoms body... they will be kill or just ofzt can kill ?
Bullet count is a good idea, I will add it to the AAR.
OFZT will score a kill if it hits any part of a plane
BZT will score a kill only if it hits the body, and score a hit if it hits the wings.
can i say one idea about shilka?
in this aar i cant see how many bullets fired on target?
it is so important how many bullets fired or...
...how many bullets fired for each targetthumbsup
and one question: if one bzt bullet hit to f-111 or phantoms body... they will be kill or just ofzt can kill ?
Bullet count is a good idea, I will add it to the AAR.
OFZT will score a kill if it hits any part of a plane
BZT will score a kill only if it hits the body, and score a hit if it hits the wings.
New AAR:
Click to reveal..
that nice
so what about target azimuth , target elevation , target speed ?
AAR still little empty.
ps: papanoel coming soon, we have not much time hpasp
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/21/12 12:52 PM
Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
dear hpasp i really tnx for you hard efforts for rising up samsim
can i say one idea about shilka?
in this aar i cant see how many bullets fired on target?
it is so important how many bullets fired or...
...how many bullets fired for each targetthumbsup
and one question: if one bzt bullet hit to f-111 or phantoms body... they will be kill or just ofzt can kill ?
Bullet count is a good idea, I will add it to the AAR.
OFZT will score a kill if it hits any part of a plane
BZT will score a kill only if it hits the body, and score a hit if it hits the wings.
can i say one idea about shilka?
in this aar i cant see how many bullets fired on target?
it is so important how many bullets fired or...
...how many bullets fired for each targetthumbsup
and one question: if one bzt bullet hit to f-111 or phantoms body... they will be kill or just ofzt can kill ?
Bullet count is a good idea, I will add it to the AAR.
OFZT will score a kill if it hits any part of a plane
BZT will score a kill only if it hits the body, and score a hit if it hits the wings.
New AAR:
Click to reveal..
that nice
so what about target azimuth , target elevation , target speed ?
AAR still little empty.
ps: papanoel coming soon, we have not much time hpasp
AAR like this...
Click to reveal..
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/21/12 01:19 PM
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
AAR like this...
Click to reveal..
yes
what is Tu: 3.9s.... time of firing? you hold space key for 3.9s
????
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/21/12 02:19 PM
Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
AAR like this...
Click to reveal..
yes
what is Tu: 3.9s.... time of firing? you hold space key for 3.9s
???? No!
Read back for the Tu instrument.
Its one of the most important instrument of the SRP...
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3686101/ZSU_23_4V1_Shilka_work_in_prog.html#Post3686101
As a Zeus commander, you will concentrate on the Tu instrument, like him...
Posted By: Lieste
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/21/12 06:17 PM
Still concerned about 100% lethality of the whole fuselage (with BZT) and of the whole airframe (with OFZ)...
Not a thoroughly sourced document (struggling to find anything ~ I'll have to boot up my really old machines and see if I archived documents that I found a few years ago...), but although this was from a 'less than reliable' site, the conclusions are plausible, and there is a question mark about 'why develop' or 'prefer' the 2S6 or ZSU 37-2 with their higher calibre weapons if the 23mm shell is so very lethal.
From Tunguska development history:
Note that 30mm rounds are ~ 2x as heavy as 23mm, so lethality is expected to be 3x per round (for both accuracy and destructiveness together).
The TRADOC on the ZSU indicates (although only for optical guidance) that a 500m straight and level F4 would be destroyed only 1/6 of the time by a 40 rd burst at minimal range, falling to only 13% at 1000m and 7% at 2000m. Not sure how many rounds would be expected to hit in each case which would have an impact on the per-round lethality... but I'd expect at least 'several' at the closer distances.
Not a thoroughly sourced document (struggling to find anything ~ I'll have to boot up my really old machines and see if I archived documents that I found a few years ago...), but although this was from a 'less than reliable' site, the conclusions are plausible, and there is a question mark about 'why develop' or 'prefer' the 2S6 or ZSU 37-2 with their higher calibre weapons if the 23mm shell is so very lethal.
From Tunguska development history:
Quote:
Studies were conducted and demonstrated that a 30 mm cannon would require two-to-three times fewer shells to destroy a given target than the 23 mm cannon of the ZSU-23-4, and that firing at a MiG-17 (or similarly at, in case of war, NATO's Hawker Hunter or Fiat G.91) flying at 300 m/s, with an identical mass of 30 mm projectiles would result in a kill probability of 1.5 times greater than with 23 mm projectiles. An increase in the maximum engagement altitude from 2,000 to 4,000 m and increased effectiveness when engaging lightly armoured ground targets were also cited.
Note that 30mm rounds are ~ 2x as heavy as 23mm, so lethality is expected to be 3x per round (for both accuracy and destructiveness together).
The TRADOC on the ZSU indicates (although only for optical guidance) that a 500m straight and level F4 would be destroyed only 1/6 of the time by a 40 rd burst at minimal range, falling to only 13% at 1000m and 7% at 2000m. Not sure how many rounds would be expected to hit in each case which would have an impact on the per-round lethality... but I'd expect at least 'several' at the closer distances.
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/21/12 06:18 PM
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
AAR like this...
Click to reveal..
yes
what is Tu: 3.9s.... time of firing? you hold space key for 3.9s
???? No!
Read back for the Tu instrument.
Its one of the most important instrument of the SRP...
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3686101/ZSU_23_4V1_Shilka_work_in_prog.html#Post3686101
As a Zeus commander, you will concentrate on the Tu instrument, like him...
... huge instruments
would you create countdown for release date... pelase sir?
...12 months wating is enough sir
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/21/12 06:43 PM
Originally Posted By: Lieste
Still concerned about 100% lethality of the whole fuselage (with BZT) and of the whole airframe (with OFZ)...
Not a thoroughly sourced document (struggling to find anything ~ I'll have to boot up my really old machines and see if I archived documents that I found a few years ago...), but although this was from a 'less than reliable' site, the conclusions are plausible, and there is a question mark about 'why develop' or 'prefer' the 2S6 or ZSU 37-2 with their higher calibre weapons if the 23mm shell is so very lethal.
From Tunguska development history:
Note that 30mm rounds are ~ 2x as heavy as 23mm, so lethality is expected to be 3x per round (for both accuracy and destructiveness together).
The TRADOC on the ZSU indicates (although only for optical guidance) that a 500m straight and level F4 would be destroyed only 1/6 of the time by a 40 rd burst at minimal range, falling to only 13% at 1000m and 7% at 2000m. Not sure how many rounds would be expected to hit in each case which would have an impact on the per-round lethality... but I'd expect at least 'several' at the closer distances.
Not a thoroughly sourced document (struggling to find anything ~ I'll have to boot up my really old machines and see if I archived documents that I found a few years ago...), but although this was from a 'less than reliable' site, the conclusions are plausible, and there is a question mark about 'why develop' or 'prefer' the 2S6 or ZSU 37-2 with their higher calibre weapons if the 23mm shell is so very lethal.
From Tunguska development history:
Quote:
Studies were conducted and demonstrated that a 30 mm cannon would require two-to-three times fewer shells to destroy a given target than the 23 mm cannon of the ZSU-23-4, and that firing at a MiG-17 (or similarly at, in case of war, NATO's Hawker Hunter or Fiat G.91) flying at 300 m/s, with an identical mass of 30 mm projectiles would result in a kill probability of 1.5 times greater than with 23 mm projectiles. An increase in the maximum engagement altitude from 2,000 to 4,000 m and increased effectiveness when engaging lightly armoured ground targets were also cited.
Note that 30mm rounds are ~ 2x as heavy as 23mm, so lethality is expected to be 3x per round (for both accuracy and destructiveness together).
The TRADOC on the ZSU indicates (although only for optical guidance) that a 500m straight and level F4 would be destroyed only 1/6 of the time by a 40 rd burst at minimal range, falling to only 13% at 1000m and 7% at 2000m. Not sure how many rounds would be expected to hit in each case which would have an impact on the per-round lethality... but I'd expect at least 'several' at the closer distances.
I used to laugh on US materials referring Soviet air defense systems...
(just check US material on SA-2 ...)
We will simulate only radar guided fire here:
- against helicopters, or slow planes you expected to achieve kill in 5~10 shots per tube. (from all 4)
- against fast planes, or missiles you expected to achieve kill in 10~50 shots per tube. (from all 4)
Posted By: Lieste
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/21/12 07:21 PM
Any thought about how or why the 30x165 is 3x as lethal as the 23*152?
While this is for a somewhat less lethal 20mm round, I'd expect to see a 'lethality' proportion somewhere in the same ballpark (generally lethal ranges increase with the cube root of weight, both for immediate blast effects and lethal fragment numbers ~ the larger round does have a significant increase in maximum penetration of armour/structures due to blast and fragments very close to the burst.
There will be an increase in area covered for each impact location, and also an increase in the damage caused to structures within this area, but I doubt that this comes close to 'complete' lethality.
While this is for a somewhat less lethal 20mm round, I'd expect to see a 'lethality' proportion somewhere in the same ballpark (generally lethal ranges increase with the cube root of weight, both for immediate blast effects and lethal fragment numbers ~ the larger round does have a significant increase in maximum penetration of armour/structures due to blast and fragments very close to the burst.
There will be an increase in area covered for each impact location, and also an increase in the damage caused to structures within this area, but I doubt that this comes close to 'complete' lethality.
Posted By: CooLDoG
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/21/12 11:16 PM
Came to wish all here a marry Christmas!
I look forward to the shilka!
I look forward to the shilka!
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/22/12 05:37 AM
I hope the New Year will release a bit boring!
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/22/12 09:22 AM
Originally Posted By: Lieste
Any thought about how or why the 30x165 is 3x as lethal as the 23*152?
While this is for a somewhat less lethal 20mm round, I'd expect to see a 'lethality' proportion somewhere in the same ballpark (generally lethal ranges increase with the cube root of weight, both for immediate blast effects and lethal fragment numbers ~ the larger round does have a significant increase in maximum penetration of armour/structures due to blast and fragments very close to the burst.
There will be an increase in area covered for each impact location, and also an increase in the damage caused to structures within this area, but I doubt that this comes close to 'complete' lethality.
While this is for a somewhat less lethal 20mm round, I'd expect to see a 'lethality' proportion somewhere in the same ballpark (generally lethal ranges increase with the cube root of weight, both for immediate blast effects and lethal fragment numbers ~ the larger round does have a significant increase in maximum penetration of armour/structures due to blast and fragments very close to the burst.
There will be an increase in area covered for each impact location, and also an increase in the damage caused to structures within this area, but I doubt that this comes close to 'complete' lethality.
Click to reveal..
Would be interesting to know the weight of explosive that 30mm HEI round carries, as it has relation to the blasted fragments killing distance...
... also FAP has considerably less penetration capability than a solid BZT. (my guess is that at 900m range, the BZT would simply go through the F-16, and do not forget its incendiary filler...)
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/22/12 10:52 AM
Originally Posted By: farokh
Click to reveal..
No!
Read back for the Tu instrument.
Its one of the most important instrument of the SRP...
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3686101/ZSU_23_4V1_Shilka_work_in_prog.html#Post3686101
As a Zeus commander, you will concentrate on the Tu instrument, like him...
... huge instruments
[/spoiler]would you create countdown for release date... pelase sir?
...12 months wating is enough sir
No countdown.
The code is basically ready, but needs more testing.
The documentation writing is not started at all.
Posted By: Lieste
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/22/12 01:41 PM
Numbers for some indicative rounds:
As for BZT being superior because it will 'pass right through', that is irrelevant ~ the lateral spread is lower than for a FAP round, and that will itself commonly exit the majority of fragments through and through. Retaining a single 'fragment' is not conducive to superior SSKP, though it may destroy rather than damage a critical component that *is* struck.
With good shot placement, any of these rounds can kill an aircraft with a single hit... the difference is the range of vulnerable components (eg 57mm *can* cause a general structural failure, while 14.5mm is relatively more likely to damage a critical component within the structure).
The available 'critical' list increases with warhead size, and also the permissible 'miss distance' within (or in proximity to) the structure. When the round doesn't ricochet (possible with very oblique impacts) and the fuse functions correctly (it may fuse externally on impact (halving (or more) the effect of exlosives), or may pass through the aircraft before fusing (ADEN rounds often had this problem when fired at fighters) leaving little more than a slightly over calibre hole in many cases.
I don't suggest that you model each 'wrinkle' of lethality, but considering all hits 'kills' from a .184kg 10% warhead is optimistic in the extreme.
Quote:
Calibre, Mass, HEI filling mass, HEI filling % (of metal weight), MV, KE @ muzzle, Total Energy @ muzzle (est)
14.5mm, .0644kg, 0kg, 0%, 1000m/s, 32.2kJ, 32.2kJ (BS)
20mm, .101kg, .0105kg, 10.4%, 1030m/s, 53.6kJ, 95.6kJ (M50 series HEI)
23mm, .184kg, .019kg, 10.33%, 980m/s, 88.4kJ, 164.4kJ ZSU
25mm, .18kg, .032kg, 17.8%, 1100m/s, 108.9kJ, 236.9kJ M792
30mm, .388kg, .011kg, 2.84%, 960m/s, 178.8kJ, 222.8kJ 30x165 Waisted HEI
30mm, .39kg, .0485kg, 12.44%, 960m/s, 179.7kJ, 373.7kJ 30x165 HEI
30mm, .33kg, .0825kg, 25%, 860m/s, 122kJ, 452kJ 30x184 HE(M) WW2 Cannon
35mm, .55kg, .112kg, 20.36%, 1180m/s, 382.9kJ, 830.9kJ Gepard HEI
40mm, .96kg, .115kg, 11.98%, 1005m/s, 484.8kJ, 944.8kJ Bofors L/70 HEI
57mm, 2.85kg, .154kg, 5.4%, 1000m/s, 1425kJ, 2041kJ S60 HE
57mm, 2.4kg, .45kg, 18.75%, 1020m/s, 1248kJ, 3048kJ Bofors HC HE
14.5mm, .0644kg, 0kg, 0%, 1000m/s, 32.2kJ, 32.2kJ (BS)
20mm, .101kg, .0105kg, 10.4%, 1030m/s, 53.6kJ, 95.6kJ (M50 series HEI)
23mm, .184kg, .019kg, 10.33%, 980m/s, 88.4kJ, 164.4kJ ZSU
25mm, .18kg, .032kg, 17.8%, 1100m/s, 108.9kJ, 236.9kJ M792
30mm, .388kg, .011kg, 2.84%, 960m/s, 178.8kJ, 222.8kJ 30x165 Waisted HEI
30mm, .39kg, .0485kg, 12.44%, 960m/s, 179.7kJ, 373.7kJ 30x165 HEI
30mm, .33kg, .0825kg, 25%, 860m/s, 122kJ, 452kJ 30x184 HE(M) WW2 Cannon
35mm, .55kg, .112kg, 20.36%, 1180m/s, 382.9kJ, 830.9kJ Gepard HEI
40mm, .96kg, .115kg, 11.98%, 1005m/s, 484.8kJ, 944.8kJ Bofors L/70 HEI
57mm, 2.85kg, .154kg, 5.4%, 1000m/s, 1425kJ, 2041kJ S60 HE
57mm, 2.4kg, .45kg, 18.75%, 1020m/s, 1248kJ, 3048kJ Bofors HC HE
As for BZT being superior because it will 'pass right through', that is irrelevant ~ the lateral spread is lower than for a FAP round, and that will itself commonly exit the majority of fragments through and through. Retaining a single 'fragment' is not conducive to superior SSKP, though it may destroy rather than damage a critical component that *is* struck.
With good shot placement, any of these rounds can kill an aircraft with a single hit... the difference is the range of vulnerable components (eg 57mm *can* cause a general structural failure, while 14.5mm is relatively more likely to damage a critical component within the structure).
The available 'critical' list increases with warhead size, and also the permissible 'miss distance' within (or in proximity to) the structure. When the round doesn't ricochet (possible with very oblique impacts) and the fuse functions correctly (it may fuse externally on impact (halving (or more) the effect of exlosives), or may pass through the aircraft before fusing (ADEN rounds often had this problem when fired at fighters) leaving little more than a slightly over calibre hole in many cases.
I don't suggest that you model each 'wrinkle' of lethality, but considering all hits 'kills' from a .184kg 10% warhead is optimistic in the extreme.
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/22/12 06:22 PM
Originally Posted By: Lieste
Numbers for some indicative rounds:
As for BZT being superior because it will 'pass right through', that is irrelevant ~ the lateral spread is lower than for a FAP round, and that will itself commonly exit the majority of fragments through and through. Retaining a single 'fragment' is not conducive to superior SSKP, though it may destroy rather than damage a critical component that *is* struck.
Click to reveal..
As for BZT being superior because it will 'pass right through', that is irrelevant ~ the lateral spread is lower than for a FAP round, and that will itself commonly exit the majority of fragments through and through. Retaining a single 'fragment' is not conducive to superior SSKP, though it may destroy rather than damage a critical component that *is* struck.
BZT is superior, as it not only pass through anything below 2cm RHA, but will ignite it also.
Originally Posted By: Lieste
With good shot placement, any of these rounds can kill an aircraft with a single hit... the difference is the range of vulnerable components (eg 57mm *can* cause a general structural failure, while 14.5mm is relatively more likely to damage a critical component within the structure).
The available 'critical' list increases with warhead size, and also the permissible 'miss distance' within (or in proximity to) the structure. When the round doesn't ricochet (possible with very oblique impacts) and the fuse functions correctly (it may fuse externally on impact (halving (or more) the effect of exlosives), or may pass through the aircraft before fusing (ADEN rounds often had this problem when fired at fighters) leaving little more than a slightly over calibre hole in many cases.
I don't suggest that you model each 'wrinkle' of lethality, but considering all hits 'kills' from a .184kg 10% warhead is optimistic in the extreme.
The available 'critical' list increases with warhead size, and also the permissible 'miss distance' within (or in proximity to) the structure. When the round doesn't ricochet (possible with very oblique impacts) and the fuse functions correctly (it may fuse externally on impact (halving (or more) the effect of exlosives), or may pass through the aircraft before fusing (ADEN rounds often had this problem when fired at fighters) leaving little more than a slightly over calibre hole in many cases.
I don't suggest that you model each 'wrinkle' of lethality, but considering all hits 'kills' from a .184kg 10% warhead is optimistic in the extreme.
Disagree.
I work from Shilka Commander's Firing Manual (and with the help of the Hungarian Shilka firing range "Dregelypalank" exCommander), that might disagree with the commonly available material from the net.
(as usual)
ps: increasing the caliber of an AAA system is usually done to extend its range...
... reducing it, is done to increase its firing rate.
ps2: Im happy to increase the fidelity of the SAM simulator, based on real Military manuals (not some website sources), as was done earlier, with other SAM systems.
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/23/12 01:53 PM
dear hpasp... u said shilkas code is ready ,,, so you can fire on several targets on your PC
.
.
.
could you create one little demo from inside of shilka? please
.
.
.
could you create one little demo from inside of shilka? please
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/25/12 09:04 PM
Manual writing is ongoing...
Posted By: jazjar
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/26/12 07:05 PM
Uh oh, please no calculus or algebra, I am very bad at math.
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/27/12 09:22 AM
Originally Posted By: jazjar
Uh oh, please no calculus or algebra, I am very bad at math.
All artillery troop has to be very good in geometry.
PS: You will look at the H, Ty, Phi, Betha-y instruments at the Commander's seat all the time during battle.
(Is nice if you understand what are these...)
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/27/12 10:09 AM
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: jazjar
Uh oh, please no calculus or algebra, I am very bad at math.
All artillery troop has to be very good in geometry.
PS: You will look at the H, Ty, Phi, Betha-y instruments at the Commander's seat all the time during battle.
(Is nice if you understand what are these...)
when us during to set insrtuments manually target can pass us
hpasp how this is possible?
are u sure? we have to set all instruments manually during target comming with 1mach to us
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/27/12 07:47 PM
Please read the text on the picture again...
Click to reveal..
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/27/12 07:58 PM
Originally Posted By: Lieste
Still concerned about 100% lethality of the whole fuselage (with BZT) and of the whole airframe (with OFZ)...
Hi Lieste,
We done some research on the Hungarian forum and here:
http://a4skyhawk.org/files/gallery/Complete%20Casualty%20Records
so the model is corrected to the following:
BZT - anywhere on the airframe is considered as a hit. (several hits cause a kill)
OFZT - considered as a hit, just the sensitive places of the jet body will cause kill.
Here you can find OFZT hit on the A-4 bump after the cockpit.
http://a4skyhawk.org/6e3/html/vm31169b.htm
http://a4skyhawk.org/6e3/html/vm31169c.htm
http://a4skyhawk.org/6e3/html/vm31169d.htm
The OFZT knocked the whole bump element away, and sprayed the air intake upper part with shrapnels. (caused by the arming delay)
Posted By: piston79
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/27/12 09:18 PM
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Hi Lieste,
We done some research on the Hungarian forum and here:
http://a4skyhawk.org/files/gallery/Complete%20Casualty%20Records
so the model is corrected to the following:
BZT - anywhere on the airframe is considered as a hit. (several hits cause a kill)
OFZT - considered as a hit, just the sensitive places of the jet body will cause kill.
Well done, Lieste!!! "Relistic to the switch (and to the shrapnel)!"
How about planes with couple of hits to change their course away of the battle? Looking of the Skyhawk pictures that's the only logical choice for the man inside...
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/27/12 09:51 PM
Originally Posted By: piston79
Click to reveal..
Well done, Lieste!!! "Relistic to the switch (and to the shrapnel)!"
The Volhov radio proxy fuse sensitivity realism related to target RCS was added after your comments...
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/31/12 01:56 PM
... manual writing is ongoing.
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/31/12 06:38 PM
Very interesting indeed!
I congratulate you with coming new year!
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/31/12 10:44 PM
Happy New Year!!!
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/31/12 10:50 PM
Super easy!
Thank you!
Happy new year 2013!
Posted By: montieris
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/31/12 11:24 PM
Cheers in holidays and
Much Success In The New Year!
Much Success In The New Year!
Posted By: piston79
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/01/13 12:01 AM
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Happy New Year!!!
Happy New Year, dear Hpasp, and Happy New Power
!!!Happy New Year to all crazy SAM maniacs!
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/01/13 01:10 AM
Congratulations to all the fans of SAM happy new year 2013!
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/02/13 06:29 PM
happy new year to all dear friend
dear hpasp
dear piston79
dear vintorez
dear max2012
dear jazjar
and other guys
dear hpasp
dear piston79
dear vintorez
dear max2012
dear jazjar
and other guys
Posted By: jazjar
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/02/13 09:22 PM
Thank you farokh!
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/03/13 06:15 AM
Thanks A Lot!
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/08/13 11:28 AM
The question is when is the release?
Roughly, at least in January.
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/11/13 10:37 PM
The manual is under finalization, and translation.
You will have the following topics...
Contents
CONTENTS 2
PREFACE 4
REQUIREMENT TO RUN THIS PROGRAM 4
KEYBOARD REFERENCES FOR THE PROGRAM: 4
HISTORICAL BACKGROUND 5
ZSU-37-2 YENISEI 5
ZSU-23-4 SHILKA 6
STATE TRIAL - 1961 7
VERSIONS FIELDED 8
ZSU-23-4 Shilka 8
ZSU-23-4V Shilka 8
ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka 8
ZSU-23-4M1 Biryusa 9
ZSU-23-4M2 Biryusa 9
ZSU-23-4M3 Biryusa 9
ZSU-23-4M Biryusa 9
SUCCESSOR OF THE THE ZSU-23-4 SHILKA/BIRYUSA 10
2K22 Tunguska (SA-19 Grison) 10
ENGAGEMENT ZONE 11
DISLOCATION 11
SWITCHING THE SIMULATOR OFF 12
ZSU-23-4V1 SHILKA SYSTEM COMPONENTS 13
ZSU-23-4V1 SHILKA OUTSIDE 13
GM-575 HULL 14
ZSU-23-4V1 SHILKA TURRET 15
9S482 BTR-60 PU-12 MOBILE AIR DEFENSE COMMAND POST 16
PARAMETRIC COORDINATE SYSTEM 17
SWITCHING ON THE DG-4 GAS TURBINE 18
SWITCHING ON THE GAG (GYROSCOPE) UNIT 19
SWITCHING ON THE 1RL33 RPK-2 (GUN DISH) RADAR 20
1RL33 RPK-2 (GUN DISH) TARGET ACQUISITION 21
1RL33 RPK-2 (GUN DISH) TARGET TRACKING 22
UNDERSTANDING THE 1RL33 RPK-2 (GUN DISH) INDICATORS 23
Three Dimensional Angle Indicator 23
Range Indicator 24
SWITCHING ON THE 2E2 ELECTRO HIDRAULICAL AIMING SYSTEM 25
SWITCHING ON THE 2A7 AZP-23 WEAPON SYSTEM 26
SWITCHING ON THE 1A7 SRP ELECTRO MECHANICAL FIRE SOLUTION CALCULATOR 28
H INSTRUMENT 29
Φ (PHI) INSTRUMENT 30
ΒY (BETHA-U) INSTRUMENT 31
TY (T-U) INSTRUMENT 32
TARGET ACQUISITION METHODS 33
TARGET ACQUISITION DATA RECEIVED VIA THE 9S482 BTR-60 PU-12 33
Plotting Board 34
Sector target search and Automatic Angle Tracking 35
Automatic Range Tracking 36
USING THE SDC (MOVING TARGET INDICATOR) TO REDUCE GROUND CLUTTER 37
23X152B OFZT (HEI-T, HIGH EXPLOSIVE INCENDIARY TRACER) 38
23X152B BZT (API-T, ARMOR PIERCING INCENDIARY TRACER) 39
2T210 TZM AMMO TRANSPORTER-LOADER 40
TARGET ENGAGEMENT MODES 41
PREPARATION FOR FIRING 41
LIMITING FACTORS OF FIRING 42
THE 23MM AMMUNITION BALLISTICS CALCULATED BY THE 1A7 SRP 42
ELEVATION ANGLE LIMITER 42
ЕСТЬ ДАННЫЕ (HAVE DATA) 42
SHOOTING BY THE ANGLE OFFICER 43
SHOOTING BY THE COMMANDER 44
You will have the following topics...
Contents
CONTENTS 2
PREFACE 4
REQUIREMENT TO RUN THIS PROGRAM 4
KEYBOARD REFERENCES FOR THE PROGRAM: 4
HISTORICAL BACKGROUND 5
ZSU-37-2 YENISEI 5
ZSU-23-4 SHILKA 6
STATE TRIAL - 1961 7
VERSIONS FIELDED 8
ZSU-23-4 Shilka 8
ZSU-23-4V Shilka 8
ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka 8
ZSU-23-4M1 Biryusa 9
ZSU-23-4M2 Biryusa 9
ZSU-23-4M3 Biryusa 9
ZSU-23-4M Biryusa 9
SUCCESSOR OF THE THE ZSU-23-4 SHILKA/BIRYUSA 10
2K22 Tunguska (SA-19 Grison) 10
ENGAGEMENT ZONE 11
DISLOCATION 11
SWITCHING THE SIMULATOR OFF 12
ZSU-23-4V1 SHILKA SYSTEM COMPONENTS 13
ZSU-23-4V1 SHILKA OUTSIDE 13
GM-575 HULL 14
ZSU-23-4V1 SHILKA TURRET 15
9S482 BTR-60 PU-12 MOBILE AIR DEFENSE COMMAND POST 16
PARAMETRIC COORDINATE SYSTEM 17
SWITCHING ON THE DG-4 GAS TURBINE 18
SWITCHING ON THE GAG (GYROSCOPE) UNIT 19
SWITCHING ON THE 1RL33 RPK-2 (GUN DISH) RADAR 20
1RL33 RPK-2 (GUN DISH) TARGET ACQUISITION 21
1RL33 RPK-2 (GUN DISH) TARGET TRACKING 22
UNDERSTANDING THE 1RL33 RPK-2 (GUN DISH) INDICATORS 23
Three Dimensional Angle Indicator 23
Range Indicator 24
SWITCHING ON THE 2E2 ELECTRO HIDRAULICAL AIMING SYSTEM 25
SWITCHING ON THE 2A7 AZP-23 WEAPON SYSTEM 26
SWITCHING ON THE 1A7 SRP ELECTRO MECHANICAL FIRE SOLUTION CALCULATOR 28
H INSTRUMENT 29
Φ (PHI) INSTRUMENT 30
ΒY (BETHA-U) INSTRUMENT 31
TY (T-U) INSTRUMENT 32
TARGET ACQUISITION METHODS 33
TARGET ACQUISITION DATA RECEIVED VIA THE 9S482 BTR-60 PU-12 33
Plotting Board 34
Sector target search and Automatic Angle Tracking 35
Automatic Range Tracking 36
USING THE SDC (MOVING TARGET INDICATOR) TO REDUCE GROUND CLUTTER 37
23X152B OFZT (HEI-T, HIGH EXPLOSIVE INCENDIARY TRACER) 38
23X152B BZT (API-T, ARMOR PIERCING INCENDIARY TRACER) 39
2T210 TZM AMMO TRANSPORTER-LOADER 40
TARGET ENGAGEMENT MODES 41
PREPARATION FOR FIRING 41
LIMITING FACTORS OF FIRING 42
THE 23MM AMMUNITION BALLISTICS CALCULATED BY THE 1A7 SRP 42
ELEVATION ANGLE LIMITER 42
ЕСТЬ ДАННЫЕ (HAVE DATA) 42
SHOOTING BY THE ANGLE OFFICER 43
SHOOTING BY THE COMMANDER 44
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/12/13 10:42 AM
This is of course a very great!
Posted By: piston79
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/12/13 07:52 PM
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/13/13 04:24 PM
Originally Posted By: piston79
Development of the 2K22 "Tunguska" was started by the command of the USSR State commission from June 8 1970, and was intended to replace the ZSU-23-4 Shilka/Biryusa and the 9K33 Strela-1 (SA-9) / 9K35 Strela-10 (SA-13) systems with a common platform, capable of surviving the then new A-10A Thunderbolt, and US Army helicopters firing anti-armour missiles, such as the TOW equipped AH-1S and Hellfire equipped AH-64A Apache.
Tunguska was designed with a minimum range of 8km...
... Shilka facing ATGM:
Posted By: Mdore
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/14/13 07:29 AM
How difficult is the ZSU-23-4 to operate compared to the SA-2E/F, SA-3, SA-4 and SA-5?
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/14/13 08:29 AM
Originally Posted By: Mdore
How difficult is the ZSU-23-4 to operate compared to the SA-2E/F, SA-3, SA-4 and SA-5?
at my eyes ! you have to faster than sa-2 and other system's operators
because in sa-2 or others you have far way till target maybe tens KM
but in shilka u can see target only in your scope just from 13 km so !
one target with 1.0 mach speed coming to you and you understand it just from 13 km !
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/14/13 09:19 AM
Originally Posted By: Mdore
How difficult is the ZSU-23-4 to operate compared to the SA-2E/F, SA-3, SA-4 and SA-5?
Its operation is easy, no tricky radar modes, just acquisition and tracking.
Hardest for me is to understand what the cheap mechanical instruments of the SRP is showing, and some annoying inconsistency...
... like the elevation instrument is indicating in Russian mil (one round is 60-00), while the angle limiter can be set by normal degree (one round 360).
On the other side, its nice to be a low value target.
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/14/13 09:51 AM
hpasp .... could u explain about OFZT bullet mechanism?
this bullet explode after Influence in body of aircraft?
this bullet explode after Influence in body of aircraft?
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/14/13 10:08 AM
Originally Posted By: farokh
hpasp .... could u explain about OFZT bullet mechanism?
when bullet hit the body of aircraft and then explode ? or bullet after move to inside of aircraft and then explode?
when bullet hit the body of aircraft and then explode ? or bullet after move to inside of aircraft and then explode?
The 23x152B OFZT is a HEI-T, High Explosive Incendiary Tracer bullet.
When it is shot, the tracer will show its path for 5.5 seconds.
It has the MG-25 time-and-percussion fuse.
After flying 11 second, it will self destruct, to avoid collateral damages on the ground.
If it hits the target, than the fuse will delay, while the bullet will flies approx 10~20cm inside of the target, then detonate.
The detonation sends shrapnel mainly in a cone formation forward of the bullet.
The MG25 fuse is quite a complex design...
Posted By: Lieste
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/14/13 10:10 AM
It is "impact with delay" ~ intended to penetrate inside the structure and then burst inside... theoretically guaranteeing at least twice the destructive force...
In practice against 'thin' targets it will often burst beyond the second skin with a 'clean hit' at closer range, or it may burst on the 'skin' if impacting thicker structure at longer ranges/rear impact. It is also possible for any range to impact so obliquely so that the shell ricochets rather than penetrates, even on 'only' aluminium skin.
For very large airframes there is also a chance that a burst inside will not be structurally lethal, while one within the skin would be more damaging.
It is worth noting that UK testing of 30mm ADEN ammunition indicated that even ~70g of HE was not sufficient to seriously damage a B29 wing spar, and reduction in shell weight to optimise hitting chances by increased velocity was desirable ~ reductions in destructive power of the round even at 39g HE was not materially significant in damage to sensitive components and more rounds hitting made up for the individual reduction in lethality. None of the rounds were sufficient to reliably kill with a single round. This is for a round much more powerful than the 23mm (12-18g HEI) albeit at higher velocity, although hitting a target somewhat larger and more heavily constructed than a transonic fighter/fighter-bomber.
In practice against 'thin' targets it will often burst beyond the second skin with a 'clean hit' at closer range, or it may burst on the 'skin' if impacting thicker structure at longer ranges/rear impact. It is also possible for any range to impact so obliquely so that the shell ricochets rather than penetrates, even on 'only' aluminium skin.
For very large airframes there is also a chance that a burst inside will not be structurally lethal, while one within the skin would be more damaging.
It is worth noting that UK testing of 30mm ADEN ammunition indicated that even ~70g of HE was not sufficient to seriously damage a B29 wing spar, and reduction in shell weight to optimise hitting chances by increased velocity was desirable ~ reductions in destructive power of the round even at 39g HE was not materially significant in damage to sensitive components and more rounds hitting made up for the individual reduction in lethality. None of the rounds were sufficient to reliably kill with a single round. This is for a round much more powerful than the 23mm (12-18g HEI) albeit at higher velocity, although hitting a target somewhat larger and more heavily constructed than a transonic fighter/fighter-bomber.
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/14/13 11:38 AM
In practice against 'thin' targets it will often burst beyond the second skin with a 'clean hit' at closer range, or it may burst on the 'skin' if impacting thicker structure at longer ranges/rear impact. It is also possible for any range to impact so obliquely so that the shell ricochets rather than penetrates, even on 'only' aluminium skin.
In practice it will go through of a wing and detonate harmlessly at the other side, leaving a nice hole.
For very large airframes there is also a chance that a burst inside will not be structurally lethal, while one within the skin would be more damaging.
We are not targeting any very large airframe here, with an 1500m maximum altitude capable AAA.
Our targets are Meteor-1, A-4 Skyhawk, F-4 Phantom, and the F-111 Ardwark. All are crowded with sensitive systems, contrary to a B29.
In practice it will go through of a wing and detonate harmlessly at the other side, leaving a nice hole.
For very large airframes there is also a chance that a burst inside will not be structurally lethal, while one within the skin would be more damaging.
We are not targeting any very large airframe here, with an 1500m maximum altitude capable AAA.
Our targets are Meteor-1, A-4 Skyhawk, F-4 Phantom, and the F-111 Ardwark. All are crowded with sensitive systems, contrary to a B29.
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/14/13 04:16 PM
hpasp .... do you know about reloading time shilka?
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/14/13 05:11 PM
Originally Posted By: farokh
hpasp .... do you know about reloading time shilka?
8 minutes for 2000 ammo
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/15/13 12:40 PM
The question when the Release is scheduled for January or the knowledge already released or not?
You could at least put the English Documentation for instructions.
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/15/13 01:55 PM
persian boys during play with shilka 
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/19/13 09:08 AM
Shilka is planned to be released this weekend.
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/19/13 02:21 PM
Question there must be version 0.925 or 0.926
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/19/13 02:25 PM
Simply excellent documentation will tell.
I liked!
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/19/13 02:27 PM
SAM Simulator v0.926 is released, bringing the ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka onboard.
"Realistic to the Switch"
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
"Realistic to the Switch"
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/19/13 04:03 PM
Super cool, I'm very happy about it!
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/19/13 05:44 PM
dear hpasp here is some confuser objects!!!!!!
why i cant choose number of meteors ??? this is very bad
and why i cant choose side of launch ??? all of meteor launch from west
and why i cant set the time of launch
all of those mak a bad happend!
during set the switchs, one or two meteors run from my hands.... ahhhhh
please edit it .
why i cant choose number of meteors ??? this is very bad
and why i cant choose side of launch ??? all of meteor launch from west
and why i cant set the time of launch
all of those mak a bad happend!
during set the switchs, one or two meteors run from my hands.... ahhhhh
please edit it .
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/19/13 05:47 PM
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/19/13 06:01 PM
here is my 3daar (poor practice target)
Click to reveal..
PS: dear hpasp ... i dont know why i cant open fire sooner than 1500m
where is my problem?
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/19/13 06:01 PM
Originally Posted By: max2012
English manual page 20, step 6 is missed.
As a Russian, you should know what VKL means.
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/19/13 06:08 PM
Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: max2012
max2012... i cant see you video... please upload this on here to easy downloading
http://www.sendspace.com/
please do not whatch just number of switch and do not turn on without reading about them
here is my 3daar (poor practice target)
Click to reveal..
PS: dear hpasp ... i dont know why i cant open fire sooner than 1500m
where is my problem?
Drgelypalnk firing range limitations.
You can open fire only between 40-00 and 34-00 azimuth.
(Hungary is a small country, you could hit civilians otherwise.)
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/19/13 06:28 PM
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: max2012
max2012... i cant see you video... please upload this on here to easy downloading
http://www.sendspace.com/
please do not whatch just number of switch and do not turn on without reading about them
here is my 3daar (poor practice target)
Click to reveal..
PS: dear hpasp ... i dont know why i cant open fire sooner than 1500m
where is my problem?
Drgelypalnk firing range limitations.
You can open fire only between 40-00 and 34-00 azimuth.
(Hungary is a small country, you could hit civilians otherwise.)
ok but i have reall problem sir... space key do no work fine!!!
i set all of key and switchs... i lock on target and i going to angel officer and when, show me the green light (open fire)... i push the space but no bullet fire! why sir??????
2A7 AZP-23 weapon system is online
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/19/13 06:42 PM
Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: max2012
max2012... i cant see you video... please upload this on here to easy downloading
http://www.sendspace.com/
please do not whatch just number of switch and do not turn on without reading about them
here is my 3daar (poor practice target)
Click to reveal..
PS: dear hpasp ... i dont know why i cant open fire sooner than 1500m
where is my problem?
Drgelypalnk firing range limitations.
You can open fire only between 40-00 and 34-00 azimuth.
(Hungary is a small country, you could hit civilians otherwise.)
ok but i have reall problem sir... space key do no work fine!!!
i set all of key and switchs... i lock on target and i going to angel officer and when, show me the green light (open fire)... i push the space but no bullet fire! why sir??????
2A7 AZP-23 weapon system is online
Angle limiter?
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/19/13 06:49 PM
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: max2012
max2012... i cant see you video... please upload this on here to easy downloading
http://www.sendspace.com/
please do not whatch just number of switch and do not turn on without reading about them
here is my 3daar (poor practice target)
Click to reveal..
PS: dear hpasp ... i dont know why i cant open fire sooner than 1500m
where is my problem?
Drgelypalnk firing range limitations.
You can open fire only between 40-00 and 34-00 azimuth.
(Hungary is a small country, you could hit civilians otherwise.)
ok but i have reall problem sir... space key do no work fine!!!
i set all of key and switchs... i lock on target and i going to angel officer and when, show me the green light (open fire)... i push the space but no bullet fire! why sir??????
2A7 AZP-23 weapon system is online
Angle limiter?
angle limiter is 0 .... but like this aar i cant fire sooner than 1500 m ... why ? when i lock on target green lamp is on but space not work till target come to 1500m ....
im 100 per 100 sure ... i locked on target far than than 1500 m ... around 2/5 / 3 but when target passed the 2500 green lamp on .. angle limiter 0 but space do not work
Click to reveal..
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/19/13 07:14 PM
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3721051/Re_SAM_Simulator_v0_926_is_rel#Post3721051
What was the By (Beta-u) angle when you wanted to open fire?
What was the By (Beta-u) angle when you wanted to open fire?
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/19/13 07:28 PM
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3721051/Re_SAM_Simulator_v0_926_is_rel#Post3721051
What was the By (Beta-u) angle when you wanted to open fire?
What was the By (Beta-u) angle when you wanted to open fire?
my monitor is wide... i cant read the numbers but i take a picture from (beta-u)
this picture take after green lamp is on
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/19/13 07:43 PM
Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3721051/Re_SAM_Simulator_v0_926_is_rel#Post3721051
What was the By (Beta-u) angle when you wanted to open fire?
What was the By (Beta-u) angle when you wanted to open fire?
my monitor is wide... i cant read the numbers but i take a picture from (beta-u)
this picture take after green lamp is on
page 44
Click on the target shooter switch to left for the commander setting, to select the Commander to be the shooter.
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/19/13 08:07 PM
dear hpasp... i love angel offricer seat .. so for firing i always seat there for take picture , i change my seat
look : i have a good handle with this doll
http://www.sendspace.com/file/pxufjf
what is you opinion about my handle with 2 barrels ?
i just have distance problem like downer picture
exactly after green light open in here , i set the commander fire switch and i push the space... but no bullet fire
so for firing i always seat there for take picture , i change my seat look : i have a good handle with this doll
http://www.sendspace.com/file/pxufjf
what is you opinion about my handle with 2 barrels ?
i just have distance problem like downer picture
exactly after green light open in here , i set the commander fire switch and i push the space... but no bullet fire
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/19/13 11:30 PM
Originally Posted By: farokh
dear hpasp... i love angel offricer seat .. so for firing i always seat there for take picture , i change my seat
look : i have a good handle with this doll
http://www.sendspace.com/file/pxufjf
what is you opinion about my handle with 2 barrels ?
i just have distance problem like downer picture
exactly after green light open in here , i set the commander fire switch and i push the space... but no bullet fire
so for firing i always seat there for take picture , i change my seat look : i have a good handle with this doll
http://www.sendspace.com/file/pxufjf
what is you opinion about my handle with 2 barrels ?
i just have distance problem like downer picture
exactly after green light open in here , i set the commander fire switch and i push the space... but no bullet fire
Could you please describe me what your By (Beta-u) instrument is showing?
Posted By: Mdore
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/20/13 05:30 AM
Thank you Hpasp for all your work!
I've completed the training mission a few times. I've tried the Egypt missions, but no aircraft come close enough to shoot at.
And I just tried the Libya mission and managed to get one kill. Karma-52. History repeats itself
I think I've found an error in the manual, on page 35.
"When the target signal (6) touches the boresight (8) get it into
automatic angle tracking, by clicking with the left mouse
button over the red area (1)."
You click right mouse button to go into automatic tracking, not the left.
Oh, and pause doesn't seem to work. Aircraft still keep moving after I've pressed F1
I've completed the training mission a few times. I've tried the Egypt missions, but no aircraft come close enough to shoot at.
And I just tried the Libya mission and managed to get one kill. Karma-52. History repeats itself
I think I've found an error in the manual, on page 35.
"When the target signal (6) touches the boresight (8) get it into
automatic angle tracking, by clicking with the left mouse
button over the red area (1)."
You click right mouse button to go into automatic tracking, not the left.
Oh, and pause doesn't seem to work. Aircraft still keep moving after I've pressed F1
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/20/13 07:08 AM
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: farokh
dear hpasp... i love angel offricer seat .. so for firing i always seat there for take picture , i change my seat
look : i have a good handle with this doll
http://www.sendspace.com/file/pxufjf
what is you opinion about my handle with 2 barrels ?
i just have distance problem like downer picture
exactly after green light open in here , i set the commander fire switch and i push the space... but no bullet fire
so for firing i always seat there for take picture , i change my seat look : i have a good handle with this doll
http://www.sendspace.com/file/pxufjf
what is you opinion about my handle with 2 barrels ?
i just have distance problem like downer picture
exactly after green light open in here , i set the commander fire switch and i push the space... but no bullet fire
Could you please describe me what your By (Beta-u) instrument is showing?
(upper left dial) show me 42.00
(lower right dial)show me 31
and today i did a another test ... my(upper left dial)show me 40.00 but space do not work again....
Posted By: montieris
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/20/13 10:28 AM
Thanks for releasing Shilka!
Now my weekends are complete
Now my weekends are complete
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/20/13 11:11 AM
Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: farokh
dear hpasp... i love angel offricer seat .. so for firing i always seat there for take picture , i change my seat
look : i have a good handle with this doll
http://www.sendspace.com/file/pxufjf
what is you opinion about my handle with 2 barrels ?
i just have distance problem like downer picture
exactly after green light open in here , i set the commander fire switch and i push the space... but no bullet fire
so for firing i always seat there for take picture , i change my seat look : i have a good handle with this doll
http://www.sendspace.com/file/pxufjf
what is you opinion about my handle with 2 barrels ?
i just have distance problem like downer picture
exactly after green light open in here , i set the commander fire switch and i push the space... but no bullet fire
Could you please describe me what your By (Beta-u) instrument is showing?
(upper left dial) show me 42.00
(lower right dial)show me 31
That is 42-31 angular mil. (42.31*6=253,86 degree)
You were aiming outside of the firing range.
The firing range is limiting firing between 34-00 and 40-00 only!
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/20/13 12:00 PM
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
That is 42-31 angular mil. (42.31*6=253,86 degree)
You were aiming outside of the firing range.
The firing range is limiting firing between 34-00 and 40-00 only!
Oooo.. now i see ..
TNQ for help 
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/20/13 12:39 PM
SAMSIM-926B patch can be downloaded from here:
http://www.mediafire.com/?1d28hcpmr779de0
Just replace the "sam.exe" file with this.
Corrected:
- Pause issue
- Range issue with other systems
New feature
- In Drgelypalnk, the Meteor-1s are arriving from two direction, randomly.
http://www.mediafire.com/?1d28hcpmr779de0
Just replace the "sam.exe" file with this.
Corrected:
- Pause issue
- Range issue with other systems
New feature
- In Drgelypalnk, the Meteor-1s are arriving from two direction, randomly.
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/20/13 01:38 PM
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
SAMSIM-926B patch can be downloaded from here:
New feature
- In Drgelypalnk, the Meteor-1s are arriving from two direction, randomly.
New feature
- In Drgelypalnk, the Meteor-1s are arriving from two direction, randomly.
WOW WOW WOW.... TNQ very much hpasp
now we have a different Drgelypalnk site
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/20/13 02:24 PM
It was interesting to add Shilka against cruise missile Tomahawk next to choose the F-111A, Tornado, A4, and so on all low end.
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/20/13 02:33 PM
Originally Posted By: max2012
It was interesting to add Shilka against cruise missile Tomahawk next to choose the F-111A, Tornado, A4, and so on all low end.
Those expensive targets were reserved for the SAM crews only.
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/20/13 03:03 PM
Clearly I understood you said so I believe Hpasp!
The issue here is the workout "Hungary" There may be some shooting practice with purpose well and in General.
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/20/13 03:21 PM
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: WhoCares
Are the drones also capable to simulate helicopters?
I'd assume in the more recent scenarios those would be the "prefered" targets of the Shilka.
I'd assume in the more recent scenarios those would be the "prefered" targets of the Shilka.
They are pretty much like small helicopters...
METEOR-I
2sqrm delta winged plane used between 1977~2005
speed: 160km/hr
METEOR-II
used between 1982~1999
speed: 180km/hr
dear hpasp .... where is meteor II ?
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/20/13 03:37 PM
Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: WhoCares
Are the drones also capable to simulate helicopters?
I'd assume in the more recent scenarios those would be the "prefered" targets of the Shilka.
I'd assume in the more recent scenarios those would be the "prefered" targets of the Shilka.
They are pretty much like small helicopters...
METEOR-I
2sqrm delta winged plane used between 1977~2005
speed: 160km/hr
METEOR-II
used between 1982~1999
speed: 180km/hr
dear hpasp .... where is meteor II ?
Meteor-2 was used to be the target of the IR SAM missiles, not the Shilka.
It had a deployable IR beacon.
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/20/13 05:09 PM
The question is how to capture the goal I cannot?
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/22/13 01:00 PM
dear hpasp , why at 1300 till 1500 we need just one or two bursts for kill target !
but at 2000 till 2200m i opened fire more than 4 times bursts .....for killing target
SRP is weak for calculate more than 2000 meters range ? ????
but at 2000 till 2200m i opened fire more than 4 times bursts .....for killing target
SRP is weak for calculate more than 2000 meters range ? ????
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/22/13 04:13 PM
Twice further the target, four times larger is the area filled with bullets. So the "bullet density" or "bullet flux" is not the same, but it is four times lower. And with the same sized target, you have accordingly lower probability of hit at greater distance. Simple, isn't it? :-)
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/22/13 07:47 PM
Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
Twice further the target, four times larger is the area filled with bullets. So the "bullet density" or "bullet flux" is not the same, but it is four times lower. And with the same sized target, you have accordingly lower probability of hit at greater distance. Simple, isn't it? :-)
yes.
agreed !but further target in Drgelypalnk is so cool ... far away targets = more fire bursts
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/22/13 08:32 PM
Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
Twice further the target, four times larger is the area filled with bullets. So the "bullet density" or "bullet flux" is not the same, but it is four times lower. And with the same sized target, you have accordingly lower probability of hit at greater distance. Simple, isn't it? :-)
Plus the bullet flight time is double.
While the SRP is calculating the firing solution assuming straight target path, our targets are usually turning.
They have time to turn away further from the calculated impact point, as the Tu is longer.
Posted By: Hornet1a
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/22/13 09:35 PM
Hello Hpasp
I just want to say thank you for sharing with us for free your Sam Simulator.
As someone who grew-up during the cold-war i was always fascinated with soviet military hardware:-)
And now we can learn how to operate them....
My first simulator was Su-27 Flanker (release in 1995) and even if the graphics were not really good i always though that the Sam were fairly realistic in that game even more so than in Flanker2.0 its follow up in 2000.
Here is a description the Shilka in the Su-27 Flanker manual ,is this still acurate?
Hornet1a
I just want to say thank you for sharing with us for free your Sam Simulator.
As someone who grew-up during the cold-war i was always fascinated with soviet military hardware:-)
And now we can learn how to operate them....
My first simulator was Su-27 Flanker (release in 1995) and even if the graphics were not really good i always though that the Sam were fairly realistic in that game even more so than in Flanker2.0 its follow up in 2000.
Here is a description the Shilka in the Su-27 Flanker manual ,is this still acurate?
Hornet1a
Posted By: Hornet1a
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/22/13 10:03 PM
I know that its just a game but here is the Shilka in Su-27 Flanker (version 1.2) in this game if you fly at an altitude over 1500m it can track you but cannot shoot at you accurately:
Hornet1a
Hornet1a
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/23/13 06:59 AM
Originally Posted By: max2012
The question is how to capture the goal I cannot?
Can somebody upload a video of a Meteor-1 kill, to help Max?
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/23/13 07:04 AM
Originally Posted By: Hornet1a
Hello Hpasp
I just want to say thank you for sharing with us for free your Sam Simulator.
As someone who grew-up during the cold-war i was always fascinated with soviet military hardware:-)
And now we can learn how to operate them....
My first simulator was Su-27 Flanker (release in 1995) and even if the graphics were not really good i always though that the Sam were fairly realistic in that game even more so than in Flanker2.0 its follow up in 2000.
Here is a description the Shilka in the Su-27 Flanker manual ,is this still acurate?
Hornet1a
I just want to say thank you for sharing with us for free your Sam Simulator.
As someone who grew-up during the cold-war i was always fascinated with soviet military hardware:-)
And now we can learn how to operate them....
My first simulator was Su-27 Flanker (release in 1995) and even if the graphics were not really good i always though that the Sam were fairly realistic in that game even more so than in Flanker2.0 its follow up in 2000.
Here is a description the Shilka in the Su-27 Flanker manual ,is this still acurate?
Hornet1a
Hello Hornet1a,
Welcome between the SAM troops!
Not really.
It has Pulse-Doppler radar, instead of Continuous-Wave.
(During the Cold-War, only SA-5, SA-6, and the SA-10 used CW radar, all the rest is Pulsed)
The Cold-War era Shilka had no IR sight, just optical.
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/23/13 10:06 AM
Can I make the video playing.
The Target is not, only the land visible Reflection.
I don't even know, I will still try.
An example of "Hungary" Yes there is visible Target seen but not seen a Meteor.
Pity that in Practice you can't shoot, Hungary could have the Volkhov Dvina and do a simulation.
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/23/13 12:39 PM
Originally Posted By: max2012
The Target is not, only the land visible Reflection.
target tracking in shilka is so easy , i dont know why u cant do this
PS: target shape had a little different to ground reflextion shabe
shilka firing " tutorial video in samsim " (no sound) (target finding)
http://www.sendspace.com/file/jkoli5
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/23/13 12:42 PM
Don't know, Dvina is a lot easier for me.
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/23/13 01:04 PM
Great video, I liked it very much.
I'm probably not up there was looking for a purpose I was looking at 40 degrees, and you're in another place altogether.
How have you determined the goal itself where I haven't really figured on a map where to look.
How to distinguish it from the ground.
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/23/13 02:30 PM
hpasp... why around the tracking scope we have some numbers like By (Beta-u) instruments ?
why they do not use from normal azimuth degrees numbers ?
why they do not use from normal azimuth degrees numbers ?
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/23/13 04:00 PM
Originally Posted By: farokh
hpasp... why around the tracking scope we have some numbers like By (Beta-u) instruments ?
why they do not use from normal azimuth degrees numbers ?
why they do not use from normal azimuth degrees numbers ?
Angular mil is preferred by the ground (artillery) forces, over the azimuth degree.
Read it why:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angular_mil
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/23/13 09:25 PM
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
The 23x152B OFZT is a HEI-T, High Explosive Incendiary Tracer bullet.
When it is shot, the tracer will show its path for 5.5 seconds.
It has the MG-25 time-and-percussion fuse.
After flying 11 second, it will self destruct, to avoid collateral damages on the ground.
If it hits the target, than the fuse will delay, while the bullet will flies approx 10~20cm inside of the target, then detonate.
The detonation sends shrapnel mainly in a cone formation forward of the bullet.
The MG25 fuse is quite a complex design...
here some shilkas bullets
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/24/13 09:15 PM
Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: max2012
The Target is not, only the land visible Reflection.
target tracking in shilka is so easy , i dont know why u cant do this
PS: target shape had a little different to ground reflextion shabe
shilka firing " tutorial video in samsim " (no sound) (target finding)
http://www.sendspace.com/file/jkoli5
Well Done!
Can you upload it into You-tube?
With your permission, I would share it on the SAMSIM website.
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/24/13 09:31 PM
Question, and that something else is going on there 7 System Website Location empty.
Click to reveal..
I can upload videos with the sound as I played.
Posted By: Hornet1a
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/25/13 04:06 AM
My Shilka video:i don't know what i'm doing but i managed to shoot down 4 Meteor-1 at the training ground:-)Farokh video did help a lot....
Sorry there is no sound,but if you watch on YouTube its available in 720p.
Sorry there is no sound,but if you watch on YouTube its available in 720p.
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/25/13 07:31 AM
Originally Posted By: Hornet1a
My Shilka video:i don't know what i'm doing but i managed to shoot down 4 Meteor-1 at the training ground:-)Farokh video did help a lot....
Sorry there is no sound,but if you watch on YouTube its available in 720p.
Sorry there is no sound,but if you watch on YouTube its available in 720p.
Click to reveal..
Great Video.
Some comments...
1, You use the autonomous target acquisition method (just mentioned in the documentation), instead of the sector target search, where the approx azimuth of the target is known.
(37-00 in case of Drgelypalnk)
2, The ZU lamp indicates if the target is killed. You keep spraying bullets long after the Meteor-1 is disintegrated.
Posted By: Hornet1a
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/25/13 07:39 PM
Thank You Hpasp i knew i was missing something:i'm still learning:-)
Posted By: Hornet1a
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/25/13 09:12 PM
My second Shilka video (now with sound:-)
I'm getting better with the Shilka:i shot down 5 Meteor-1 and i had some bullet remaining....
I suggest to watch it in 720p and in full screen.
I'm getting better with the Shilka:i shot down 5 Meteor-1 and i had some bullet remaining....
I suggest to watch it in 720p and in full screen.
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/25/13 09:26 PM
Can I share it in the SAMSIM website?
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/25/13 09:50 PM
Question for Hpasp?
On your website that the New SAM's plans?
Posted By: Hornet1a
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/25/13 10:39 PM
Yes go ahead!
Posted By: Architrav
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/25/13 10:42 PM
Ahahah, please help me, guys. So I've finally got the Shilka simulation, but without any success I've been trying for ten minutes to find the power button. Maybe I should learn some more Russian than "nasdrovje" and "pushk".
Posted By: Mdore
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/26/13 03:43 AM
Originally Posted By: Architrav
Ahahah, please help me, guys. So I've finally got the Shilka simulation, but without any success I've been trying for ten minutes to find the power button. Maybe I should learn some more Russian than "nasdrovje" and "pushk".
Press that and wait a while for the turbine to spin up. It clearly says that in the manual.
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/26/13 10:20 AM
Originally Posted By: max2012
Question for Hpasp?
On your website that the New SAM's plans?
this is funny question man
of course .... could u think in real world, after sa-5 ... witch system released?
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/26/13 12:12 PM
Dear All,
Please cool down, and stick to the topic!
You answered your question:
shilka has missiles too ! that is the question
shilka can use from igla missiles
Igla has already three NATO designation (SA-16/18/24).
Please cool down, and stick to the topic!
You answered your question:
shilka has missiles too ! that is the question
shilka can use from igla missiles
Igla has already three NATO designation (SA-16/18/24).
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/26/13 12:24 PM
SAM Simulator v0.926c is released.
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
It corrects all the reported bugs.
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
It corrects all the reported bugs.
Posted By: Architrav
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/26/13 01:12 PM
Originally Posted By: Mdore
Press that and wait a while for the turbine to spin up. It clearly says that in the manual.
Thank you. I was a bit too drunk yesterday to find the manual, sorry about that.
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/26/13 03:38 PM
Originally Posted By: Architrav
Originally Posted By: Mdore
Press that and wait a while for the turbine to spin up. It clearly says that in the manual.
Thank you. I was a bit too drunk yesterday to find the manual, sorry about that.
Do not practice the equipment cleaning on the Russian way (with 100% alcohol) too often tovarish.
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/28/13 06:52 PM
hpasp... could you explain about what is the logical reason about , why we have to firing as bursts ? 5 Or 10 pcs per each barrel ?
just for saving bullets ? (i want know logicaly reason at real world)
just for saving bullets ? (i want know logicaly reason at real world)
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/28/13 07:07 PM
Else could show what is the speed of the target, it also doesnt report!
The Shilka probably havent appliance determines the speed of the target.
Posted By: Wolfhound
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/29/13 01:15 AM
Originally Posted By: farokh
hpasp... could you explain about what is the logical reason about , why we have to firing as bursts ? 5 Or 10 pcs per each barrel ?
just for saving bullets ? (i want know logicaly reason at real world)
just for saving bullets ? (i want know logicaly reason at real world)
I assume its to prevent the barrels from overheating.
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/29/13 04:46 PM
Originally Posted By: farokh
hpasp... could you explain about what is the logical reason about , why we have to firing as bursts ? 5 Or 10 pcs per each barrel ?
just for saving bullets ? (i want know logicaly reason at real world)
just for saving bullets ? (i want know logicaly reason at real world)
The idea behind is to wait until your fired bullets arrive to the impact point, and be able to decide if they were hit, thus saving ammo.
The Commander can decide on burst length, the manual only propose otherwise.
Barrel heating is not an issue, you could fire all ammo onboard in one burst.
The cooling system is open.
If the cooling liquid (remember that it is pumped in with 8atm 120psi pressure) evaporates still can exit and cool.
In the firing range, with the first Zeus series happened with a faulty electrical firing pin, that the gun shot all its load without jamming.
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/29/13 07:16 PM
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/29/13 09:05 PM
First ever case in the SAMSIM, when one long burst killed two planes of a formation...
http://www.mediafire.com/?58771irh3jz8rjn
http://www.mediafire.com/?58771irh3jz8rjn
Click to reveal..
Posted By: piston79
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/29/13 09:22 PM
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
First ever case in the SAMSIM, when one long burst killed two planes of a formation...
"Satan's sewing machine" driven by the Satan himself..
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/29/13 09:34 PM
Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
First ever case in the SAMSIM, when one long burst killed two planes of a formation...
"Satan's sewing machine" driven by the Satan himself..
Was driven by a Hungaria SAMSIM fan, called parasztherkules.
http://forum.index.hu/Article/viewArticle?a=123568347&t=9120320
Posted By: Mdore
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/30/13 04:40 AM
I didn't know it was possible for you to hit a target you weren't aiming at. Awesome.
Is it possible to hit two aircraft at once with SAM fragments? Not nuclear warheads, normal HE.
Is it possible to hit two aircraft at once with SAM fragments? Not nuclear warheads, normal HE.
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/31/13 12:30 PM
Question to Hpasp!
About Mission in Cairo, Shilka, which you have selected the battery, which should better choose how to define precisely.
5/2, 5/3 What better how much 5/12
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/31/13 06:36 PM
Posted By: piston79
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 02/01/13 07:00 PM
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 02/03/13 05:15 PM
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
First ever case in the SAMSIM, when one long burst killed two planes of a formation...
http://www.mediafire.com/?58771irh3jz8rjn
http://www.mediafire.com/?58771irh3jz8rjn
Click to reveal..
wow! you did a great job
one shot two kill 
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 02/09/13 07:18 PM
hpasp.. based on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K31_Strela-1 hungarian defense using from sa-9 gaskin !
shilka and gaskin is a good supplement For each ... so why shilka retired from servis many years ago in hungary but gaskin still in servis ?
shilka and gaskin is a good supplement For each ... so why shilka retired from servis many years ago in hungary but gaskin still in servis ?
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 02/09/13 08:02 PM
Originally Posted By: farokh
hpasp.. based on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K31_Strela-1 hungarian defense using from sa-9 gaskin !
shilka and gaskin is a good supplement For each ... so why shilka retired from servis many years ago in hungary but gaskin still in servis ?
shilka and gaskin is a good supplement For each ... so why shilka retired from servis many years ago in hungary but gaskin still in servis ?
Wiki is stupid again.
Hungarian Army was the most unusual during the ColdWar.
They used to spare on weapon investment...
- from 1969, each Hungarian tank regiments received 4pcs ZSU-23-4V1 each.
- from 1975, each Hungarian motorized regiments received 4pcs Strela-1 each.
(Contrary to Soviet practice, the Shilka/Strela systems were never mixed in Hungary.)
When the threat of attack helicopters become real (1990), instead of investing of the replacement of the Shilka with the Tor, the Hungarian army decided to scrap the Shilka, and leave the tank regiments completely without close air defense...
The same fate got the Strela-1/10 systems in 1996, all were scrapped.
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 02/10/13 12:20 PM
what is this ? and why we havnt it on samsim?
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 02/10/13 12:52 PM
Originally Posted By: farokh
what is this ? and why we havnt it on samsim?
Click to reveal..
It is the Commanders panel of the ZSU-23-4M Export system.
(in the picture, you can see the Iraqi version, with English labels)
In the SAMSIM you have the ZSU-23-4V1 system, with a bit different (vertical) Commanders panel.
Posted By: Mdore
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 02/11/13 04:25 AM
Two pictures of the same panel. The first has one meter that is an obvious replacement, and in the second the same meter is smashed. Is that meter near the hatch where people climb in and out?
Maybe it gets kicked a lot!
Maybe it gets kicked a lot!
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 02/12/13 08:16 PM
as a first look , its a shilka ... but its not.
what is it
what is it
Posted By: Lieste
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 02/13/13 01:36 AM
M108 Vismod ~ highly effective AAA vehicle in the Krasnovian 60th GMRD
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 02/14/13 01:53 PM
Five targets killed in Libya....
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 02/14/13 02:29 PM
Originally Posted By: Lieste
M108 Vismod ~ highly effective AAA vehicle in the Krasnovian 60th GMRD
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 02/18/13 09:06 AM
Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
Five targets killed in Libya....
Regarding my ZSU-23 video I think there is a very very very slight chance to catch the first F-111. Has anyone been so fast to achieve it? Radar lock would be sufficient :-)
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 02/18/13 03:33 PM
The question, and who knows how to play Mission in 1970 Cairo?
I tried to do, couldn't find the Target.
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 02/18/13 03:35 PM
Yes, and how there's a lot of them choose Shilka very kind of my question?
There are just a lot of how to determine what is best to choose?
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 02/19/13 09:05 PM
How to calculate DeltaV setting for the SRP...
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 02/20/13 02:07 PM
hpasp.. would you more explain about OFZT bullets ?
its hard to believe that one little bullet with 10.7cm length can kill aircraft when it hit the body !
i read a pdf again about OFZT but you do not wrote about how many Quiver or fragment armed at mg-25 fuse ...
and you do not wrote about power of mg-25 explosion
OFZT explosion like a handy grenade explosion??????
beauty photo "OFZT in hands"
its hard to believe that one little bullet with 10.7cm length can kill aircraft when it hit the body !
i read a pdf again about OFZT but you do not wrote about how many Quiver or fragment armed at mg-25 fuse ...
and you do not wrote about power of mg-25 explosion
OFZT explosion like a handy grenade explosion??????
beauty photo "OFZT in hands"
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 02/22/13 01:05 PM
Originally Posted By: farokh
hpasp.. would you more explain about OFZT bullets ?
its hard to believe that one little bullet with 10.7cm length can kill aircraft when it hit the body !
i read a pdf again about OFZT but you do not wrote about how many Quiver or fragment armed at mg-25 fuse ...
and you do not wrote about power of mg-25 explosion
its hard to believe that one little bullet with 10.7cm length can kill aircraft when it hit the body !
i read a pdf again about OFZT but you do not wrote about how many Quiver or fragment armed at mg-25 fuse ...
and you do not wrote about power of mg-25 explosion
OFZT explosion is throwing fragments at about 50cm.
I not seen a picture so far, where a jet come back after hit on the body.
Posted By: Lieste
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 02/22/13 03:53 PM
Apart from the ones you posted earlier you mean? Just before you changed the lethality composition.
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 02/22/13 09:28 PM
hpasp ... angle officer with what thing can open fire on target? by triger ? pedal ? switch ?
do you have any picture of it ?
do you have any picture of it ?
Posted By: CooLDoG
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 02/23/13 05:24 AM
So I just shot my first practice air craft with the new shilka. It seems rather simple. Just point and shoot more or less
Actually it is a little more complicated than that, but compared to other systems which I still haven't wrapped my head around...
I'm going to try some live mission tomorrow to see how well I do.
Quick question: what would a jammed target look like? Would it really matter at such short ranges? )probably already asked...)
Actually it is a little more complicated than that, but compared to other systems which I still haven't wrapped my head around...
I'm going to try some live mission tomorrow to see how well I do.
Quick question: what would a jammed target look like? Would it really matter at such short ranges? )probably already asked...)
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 02/23/13 11:15 AM
Originally Posted By: Lieste
Apart from the ones you posted earlier you mean? Just before you changed the lethality composition.
Correct
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 02/23/13 11:17 AM
Originally Posted By: farokh
hpasp ... angle officer with what thing can open fire on target? by triger ? pedal ? switch ?
do you have any picture of it ?
do you have any picture of it ?
Trigger, or Pedal.
Posted By: CooLDoG
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 02/23/13 03:22 PM
I was able to shoot down three planes in Libya. I think the reason why it is very hard to hit the first f-11 is due to the fact that the simulation starts late, meaning that it is very difficult to start up the Shilka fast enough to get the radar online. In other sams with quick start time (and longer ranges...) it is easier to hit the first plane... but then we have HARMs and the like to deal with...
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 02/23/13 05:49 PM
Question for Hpasp?
And when will the Russian translation of documentation
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 02/24/13 12:38 PM
Originally Posted By: max2012
Question for Hpasp?
And when will the Russian translation of documentation
Please do not mistake, I only release Hungarian and English manuals.
All the other languages were translated by SAMSIM enthusiasts in their free time.
I have no idea, when it will be done.
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 02/24/13 01:23 PM
I figured just asked!
The question is more interesting to me another Mission in Cairo, about 1970.
Where there's purpose and how to find it on the radar screen.
On the map I see, and on the radar, I had several times tried.
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 02/24/13 01:26 PM
The Mission of Eldorado just fine there can be seen on the map and on the radar target is fine, but in Cairo 1970 everywhere trying to in any way.
I do not know maybe I am not the boring, so choose on a map location.
On the map I see perfectly, but on the radar.
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 02/24/13 02:38 PM
Originally Posted By: max2012
I figured just asked!
The question is more interesting to me another Mission in Cairo, about 1970.
Where there's purpose and how to find it on the radar screen.
On the map I see, and on the radar, I had several times tried.
dear.. why u posting two posts at one time ?
this coulb be confuser reason for who want answer to you question ~
any way....
personally i dont understand what is your mean !!!!?????
your meant was , you cant find any target at cairo scenarios ? OR you cant choose the correct situation on map ?
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 02/24/13 03:54 PM
In 1970 Operation Cairo I see Targets on the map, and on the radar can not see.
Map I see circles on 50,100, 150, 200 km, and that if a radar Shilka only 20 km can!
Targets outside areas of shooting and what to do?
I do not know what to do and how to capture the target on the radar!
Next, I do not know what to choose 5/9 or 5/12!
The goal is not visible, odir times saw feet was out of reach!
On the map I see goals, but do not see on the radar.
I see only the reflection from the Earth!
Posted By: CooLDoG
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 02/24/13 04:20 PM
Try exporting an after action report into google earth:
The planes that you can hit come from the West (~270 degrees going clockwise).
In my image I think I held down the trigger a bit too long. I knew that there was a formation, so I thought I might be able to hit more than one. In the lower right corner you can see that I was shooting at the moon, but other than that I think I did pretty well this time.
The planes that you can hit come from the West (~270 degrees going clockwise).
In my image I think I held down the trigger a bit too long. I knew that there was a formation, so I thought I might be able to hit more than one. In the lower right corner you can see that I was shooting at the moon, but other than that I think I did pretty well this time.
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 02/24/13 04:38 PM
Originally Posted By: max2012
In 1970 Operation Cairo I see Targets on the map, and on the radar can not see.
Map I see circles on 50,100, 150, 200 km, and that if a radar Shilka only 20 km can!
Targets outside areas of shooting and what to do?
I do not know what to do and how to capture the target on the radar!
Next, I do not know what to choose 5/9 or 5/12!
The goal is not visible, odir times saw feet was out of reach!
On the map I see goals, but do not see on the radar.
I see only the reflection from the Earth!
at twice scenario for shilka[VI. 30. - 18:18] ! best situation for attack is 5/10 and 5/11
at third scenario[VI. 30. - 19:12] for shilka ! only situation for attacking is 5/10
at fourth scenario [VII. 2. - 16:30] for shilka ! best situation for attacking is 5/3
this pictur toke from fourth scenario for shilka !
number 1 : ground reflections
number 2 : several targets near together
second try... with ground clutter (ON)
PS: in lybia mission... f-111 flow near the beach and directly fly over the water head !
so water do no show any reflection to radar! so you can catch them all ...
but cairo... is little hard than libya ... they fly very near to ground... maybe 10 or 20 meters over the ground (i guess)...
so you have to search for moving sign, over the scope (very close to ground reflections) !
they are shinin , and you can see them on tracking scope like little shinin stars. !
i love this pro AAR
Click to reveal..
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 02/24/13 05:10 PM
I'll try again for your advice!
I chose normally as in the picture, where the closer I usually chose 5/9 and 5/12.
Yes, but how can F-4 the Supersonic fly at an altitude of 20 meters!
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 02/24/13 05:12 PM
at twice scenario for shilka[VI. 30. - 18:18] ! best situation for attack is 5/10 and 5/11
Here I usually chose the other 5/9 and 5/12.
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 02/24/13 05:36 PM
Originally Posted By: max2012
Yes, but how can F-4 the Supersonic fly at an altitude of 20 meters!
how ? because of this aircraft is a LEGEND !
check this video and find your answer
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cd3_1176139335
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 02/24/13 05:44 PM
Yeah cool, certainly above the water if the mountains do not turn out.
Fly at supersonic speed at low altitude to the skill of the pilot.
Yes, but the water above the surface, I think it's very difficult.
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 02/24/13 06:21 PM
Issue and what to do here?
VI. 30. - 10:22
VI. 30. - 10:22 I mean the goal here is not present, and what better to choose?
VI. 30. - 10:22
VI. 30. - 10:22 I mean the goal here is not present, and what better to choose?
Posted By: CooLDoG
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 02/24/13 07:34 PM
farokh's suggestions are great! I tried them out and they work. Now I must practice more so I can get them all in the spray!
Max, maybe 5/9. From the map it doesn't seem easy to hit anything.
Max, maybe 5/9. From the map it doesn't seem easy to hit anything.
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 02/24/13 08:39 PM
I understand I will try!
About VI. 30. - 10:22
I will also try to, well, to choose what I do not know.
Try 5/9, usually chose 5/11 or 5/12
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 02/25/13 11:32 AM
Originally Posted By: max2012
Issue and what to do here?
VI. 30. - 10:22
VI. 30. - 10:22 I mean the goal here is not present, and what better to choose?
VI. 30. - 10:22
VI. 30. - 10:22 I mean the goal here is not present, and what better to choose?
dude! forget this one ! ok ?
you can try just to find deal targets at 3 senarios ! and please do not make 2 posts at one time ! please ...
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 02/25/13 01:42 PM
VI. 30. - 10:22
That is, this developer has done nothing!
How to take it and forget it the first mission in Cairo in 1970
Why then is the mission generally made of?
And yet she did more to the liking of all, just like it!
As always, it turns out that I can not perform to their liking!
Posted By: CooLDoG
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 03/01/13 03:41 AM
What happens when a plane is simply "hit" by the shilka in the simulation? Does it move slower, or just continue on its current path. With the way the shilka works it seems hard only hit a target and not kill. But what happens if you only hit it? Also, is there a way to see what happens when we hit instead of kill with the shilka? With the missiles it is easy because we know the distance of explosion, but the shilka it actually hits the plane, slightly different...
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 03/02/13 12:15 PM
Originally Posted By: CooLDoG
What happens when a plane is simply "hit" by the shilka in the simulation? Does it move slower, or just continue on its current path. With the way the shilka works it seems hard only hit a target and not kill. But what happens if you only hit it? Also, is there a way to see what happens when we hit instead of kill with the shilka? With the missiles it is easy because we know the distance of explosion, but the shilka it actually hits the plane, slightly different...
Click to reveal..
After a plane hit, it maximum speed is limited, its jamming stops, and depending on situation, it either continues its flightpath, or turn away from the threat.
Posted By: max2012
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 03/03/13 05:40 PM
Who will help the Mission Cairo 1970.
VI. 30. - 10:22
Posted By: piston79
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 03/11/13 07:33 PM
Posted By: Sim
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 03/11/13 10:04 PM
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 03/19/13 09:29 AM
i see somthing different between this 2 pictures !
i mark with red sign somthing looks like a lens of camera! what is it ?
Ps: at first image we do not see anything like twice picture
i mark with red sign somthing looks like a lens of camera! what is it ?
Ps: at first image we do not see anything like twice picture
Posted By: Lieste
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 03/19/13 09:55 AM
Huh? It is right there above the scope. The mounting is 'above' & 'infront of' the scope panel so appears to the right of the scope near the handle. The box obscuring the foreground of the second image is someway off the left of the first image...
That would be the optical sight ~ looks pretty similar to those in other AFV.
That would be the optical sight ~ looks pretty similar to those in other AFV.
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 03/19/13 02:04 PM
Originally Posted By: farokh
i see somthing different between this 2 pictures !
i mark with red sign somthing looks like a lens of camera! what is it ?
Ps: at first image we do not see anything like twice picture
Click to reveal..
i mark with red sign somthing looks like a lens of camera! what is it ?
Ps: at first image we do not see anything like twice picture
Stereoscopic optical range-finder against ground targets.
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 03/22/13 01:14 PM
question from hpasp
in libya mission .... we can keep transmitter ON for a long time ! so why no one do not fire any harm missile to us ?
in libya mission .... we can keep transmitter ON for a long time ! so why no one do not fire any harm missile to us ?
Posted By: Mdore
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 03/22/13 02:24 PM
Because HARMs are expensive and ZSU-23-4s are a low priority target. Pilots were usually forbidden to waste them on Shilkas.
Posted By: piston79
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 03/30/13 10:12 AM
Offtopic, but illustrates the power of 30 mm gun shell:
Posted By: Lieste
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 03/30/13 06:34 PM
That is a high capacity mine shell which is very different from a modern shell (or *most* shell types of that period).
20mm MGFFM and 20mm MG151/20 fired:
conventional HEI shells 115g, with 3.7g of HE
mine-geschoss HE shells 92g, with 20.4g of HE
plus various AP rounds
30mm MK108 fired:
mine-geschoss HE shells 330g, with 82.5g of HE
plus AP rounds (of very limited effectiveness due to low velocity)
The Soviet 23mm VYa (predecessor to the ZSU) was using:
HE shells 200g, with 14g of HE
AP shells 200g, with 6g of HE but better penetration than any of the above weapons.
While the Mk108 could do that much damage with one hit, it is likely that each hit from a VYa round would damage an area much less than a quarter of that (roughly cubic relationship with charge weight, for radius (half for the lighter charge) ~ squared for area)
20mm MGFFM and 20mm MG151/20 fired:
conventional HEI shells 115g, with 3.7g of HE
mine-geschoss HE shells 92g, with 20.4g of HE
plus various AP rounds
30mm MK108 fired:
mine-geschoss HE shells 330g, with 82.5g of HE
plus AP rounds (of very limited effectiveness due to low velocity)
The Soviet 23mm VYa (predecessor to the ZSU) was using:
HE shells 200g, with 14g of HE
AP shells 200g, with 6g of HE but better penetration than any of the above weapons.
While the Mk108 could do that much damage with one hit, it is likely that each hit from a VYa round would damage an area much less than a quarter of that (roughly cubic relationship with charge weight, for radius (half for the lighter charge) ~ squared for area)
Posted By: piston79
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 03/30/13 06:51 PM
Originally Posted By: Lieste
While the Mk108 could do that much damage with one hit, it is likely that each hit from a VYa round would damage an area much less than a quarter of that (roughly cubic relationship with charge weight, for radius (half for the lighter charge) ~ squared for area)
If I found more suitable video, I'll share it...
Posted By: jazjar
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 05/13/13 06:32 PM
I have a question, how different would the operators' experiences be if the vehicle was moving during firing? I would certainly imagine that the gyroscope would be very important. Would anything be different besides that?
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 05/17/13 01:03 PM
ok guys , say cheez
Posted By: jazjar
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 05/17/13 03:58 PM
Wow nice is that an iranian shilka
Posted By: Mdore
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 05/18/13 05:23 AM
The guy is wearing a shirt with the new Libyan flag on it, so I'd guess Libyan Shilka.
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 05/18/13 07:29 AM
they are arab and they wrote something arabic words on shilka turret !
its not iranian.
its not iranian.
Posted By: CooLDoG
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 05/21/13 03:25 PM
none the less, it is still a nice shilka!
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 07/08/13 12:51 PM
today , i was at tehran war meuseum !
after it .... Spider man is dead / call me Fpider man !
PS: i try to access to turret door in up of shilka ! but door is locket !
,,, also i try several times to open it but it not to be open !
and shilka bullet
after it .... Spider man is dead / call me Fpider man !
PS: i try to access to turret door in up of shilka ! but door is locket !
,,, also i try several times to open it but it not to be open !
and shilka bullet
Posted By: Mdore
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 07/09/13 03:52 AM
Great photos, thanks for posting!
I wish I could see a Shilka in real life.
I wish I could see a Shilka in real life.
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 07/09/13 06:45 AM
nice pix!
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 08/09/13 08:34 PM
oh oh oh
Posted By: ataribaby
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 08/15/13 11:02 AM
Hi,
Just installed SAM SIM just because shilka as all other SAMs are over my head, I found shilka easily manageable and playable for me. Excelent work. Already able to shoot all training RC planes
Small q. There is some switches that seems "work" and are not in manual. I think they do nothing but better ask. I think one switch says pedals/trigger selector based in my cloudy memories of russian from elementary school from pre-1989. Probably selector to way how shoot can be triggered and have no real impact on sim. Other triggers i am clueless. Maybe some radar channel/frequency selector? Also shilka in sim always point to north with hull or it dosent matter as gryro is always set with correct magnetic heading? How i can see true turret heading? Thanks for answers.
Just installed SAM SIM just because shilka as all other SAMs are over my head, I found shilka easily manageable and playable for me. Excelent work. Already able to shoot all training RC planes
Small q. There is some switches that seems "work" and are not in manual. I think they do nothing but better ask. I think one switch says pedals/trigger selector based in my cloudy memories of russian from elementary school from pre-1989. Probably selector to way how shoot can be triggered and have no real impact on sim. Other triggers i am clueless. Maybe some radar channel/frequency selector? Also shilka in sim always point to north with hull or it dosent matter as gryro is always set with correct magnetic heading? How i can see true turret heading? Thanks for answers.
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 08/15/13 11:17 AM
The switch on the first picture selects "fire arm mode" - in SRP position arming of guns is controlled by SRP (firing solution computer) and you can fire only when EST DANNYE is lit (Tu<5,5s). In the other position you can fire when you want to, regardless of Tu.
The second one selects button or pedal (trigger selection?)
The last one changes radar frequency.
PS: pozdravuji z Prahy do Liberce :-)
The second one selects button or pedal (trigger selection?)
The last one changes radar frequency.
PS: pozdravuji z Prahy do Liberce :-)
Posted By: ataribaby
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 08/15/13 11:21 AM
Aha super. Fire arm cudlik asi tedy funguje, pedaly/tlacitko spouste muzu vesele ignorovat a frekvency asi taky. Sem se divil ze muzu strilet porad, mel sem fire arm dole. Moc diky za vysvetleni a taky posilam pozdrav
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 08/15/13 11:24 AM
Kdyz je to dole, tak to ridi SRP, kdykoliv se da strilet v horni poloze :-) Asi bychom meli psat anglicky, uz tu nekdo dostal pojeb za rustinu :-)
Posted By: ataribaby
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 08/15/13 11:31 AM
No ja to asi nahodne mackal tak je mozne ze sem to mel nahore / I pushed that fire control switch randomly so probably i thats why i was able to fire all time. Thanks for explanation and yeah lets switch to english
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 08/15/13 11:34 AM
PS: don't be afraid of SAMs, they are easy :-) You can begin with easy Dvina.
I started with S-200 because it is my personal long time favorite :-)
I started with S-200 because it is my personal long time favorite :-)
Posted By: ataribaby
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 08/15/13 11:39 AM
Hehe, just i am building Dragon 1/35 shilka kit now so i was curious about this system. All other systems i like only form standoff distance with HARM onboard in Falcon BMS. I must look how shilka works in BMS and maybe take some love into it there so it will behave more like in this excelent samsim. Currently working on RWR systems there so i am very curious how shilka interacts with systems like ALR-69/ALR-56M. If you get lock-on and launch warning as soon as shilka starts its azimuth / range automatic following from search mode.
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 08/15/13 12:01 PM
You should try SAMs to see situation from the other side Vietnam missions are excellent for it.
Vietnam missions are excellent for it.
Posted By: ataribaby
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 08/15/13 12:17 PM
Hehe, I will do.
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 08/15/13 03:41 PM
pic num 1 is for firing to target more than 2500m ! but dont do this !
this job help to loose bullets very fast and you will wasting all of ammo !
picture number two is not switch trigger !
pic num 3 im not sure that simulated !
this job help to loose bullets very fast and you will wasting all of ammo !
picture number two is not switch trigger !
pic num 3 im not sure that simulated !
Posted By: piston79
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 08/15/13 06:20 PM
Originally Posted By: ataribaby
Currently working on RWR systems there so i am very curious how shilka interacts with systems like ALR-69/ALR-56M. If you get lock-on and launch warning as soon as shilka starts its azimuth / range automatic following from search mode.
Hm, interesting question....
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 08/15/13 06:44 PM
Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: ataribaby
Currently working on RWR systems there so i am very curious how shilka interacts with systems like ALR-69/ALR-56M. If you get lock-on and launch warning as soon as shilka starts its azimuth / range automatic following from search mode.
Hm, interesting question....
im not sure but in DCS A-10 when one shilka turn On the transmitter
my RWR can detect shilka and when the shilka take me under tracking !
RWR systems make a noise like alert sound !
and ................
oh yes bebe ! i like it
Posted By: ataribaby
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 08/15/13 07:41 PM
In DCS it works like my changes in BMS. You get normal spike sound on ALR-69 scope. No tracking or launch indication. Just A on scope and PRF emitter clicking.
Posted By: ataribaby
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 08/15/13 07:43 PM
Oh Girls and Panzer academy... what to say more... Japanese...
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 08/15/13 11:45 PM
Originally Posted By: farokh
Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: ataribaby
Currently working on RWR systems there so i am very curious how shilka interacts with systems like ALR-69/ALR-56M. If you get lock-on and launch warning as soon as shilka starts its azimuth / range automatic following from search mode.
Hm, interesting question....
im not sure but in DCS A-10 when one shilka turn On the transmitter
my RWR can detect shilka and when the shilka take me under tracking !
RWR systems make a noise like alert sound !
and ................
oh yes bebe ! i like it
Great pix!!!
Posted By: ataribaby
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 08/16/13 08:00 AM
Originally Posted By: farokh
pic num 1 is for firing to target more than 2500m ! but dont do this !
this job help to loose bullets very fast and you will wasting all of ammo !
picture number two is not switch trigger !
pic num 3 im not sure that simulated !
this job help to loose bullets very fast and you will wasting all of ammo !
picture number two is not switch trigger !
pic num 3 im not sure that simulated !
Aha, any details what position of switch on pic 1 is for? Pic 2 clearly says pedals in russian i am sure this have no meaning in sim itself anyway.
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 08/16/13 10:33 AM
SRP - Tu (and therefore distance) limit, lower position
Posted By: piston79
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 08/16/13 04:58 PM
Originally Posted By: ataribaby
In DCS it works like my changes in BMS. You get normal spike sound on ALR-69 scope. No tracking or launch indication. Just A on scope and PRF emitter clicking.
There it is.....:
Acquiring:
Tracking:
I guess it cannot distinguished between modes, as no change in transmission pattern had occurred...
Posted By: Mdore
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 08/16/13 05:48 PM
A HUGE change in transmission pattern has occurred.
It's gone from scanning a large vertical slice of sky with an aeroplane in it, to just scanning over the aeroplane.
So the received signal will go from this
__________/\___________/\______
to this
____/````````````````````````````````````````````
It's gone from scanning a large vertical slice of sky with an aeroplane in it, to just scanning over the aeroplane.
So the received signal will go from this
__________/\___________/\______
to this
____/````````````````````````````````````````````
Posted By: ataribaby
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 08/16/13 08:31 PM
Yes I think too. Its how it works in DCS and in BMS its now same.
There it is.....:
Acquiring:
Tracking:
I guess it cannot distinguished between modes, as no change in transmission pattern had occurred...
Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: ataribaby
In DCS it works like my changes in BMS. You get normal spike sound on ALR-69 scope. No tracking or launch indication. Just A on scope and PRF emitter clicking.
There it is.....:
Acquiring:
Tracking:
I guess it cannot distinguished between modes, as no change in transmission pattern had occurred...
Posted By: piston79
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 08/16/13 09:07 PM
OFF TOP:
How BMS RWR reacts on SA-5? (you could answer on PM, as it is not relevant to this topic)...
How BMS RWR reacts on SA-5? (you could answer on PM, as it is not relevant to this topic)...
Posted By: ataribaby
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 08/17/13 06:25 PM
Check PM, piston79.
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 08/17/13 09:06 PM
guys... who knows that one shilka have how much price ?
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/29/13 01:24 PM
Posted By: Lieste
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/29/13 01:38 PM
T55-M2 on the gunners CP? Is that correct, or is this a franken-tank?
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/29/13 04:32 PM
Originally Posted By: Lieste
T55-M2 on the gunners CP? Is that correct, or is this a franken-tank?
The name of that panel is T-55 (M2 is the subversion)...
... but most of the equipment is missing.
Posted By: Lieste
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/29/13 06:14 PM
Ah, ok. Makes sense with the diagram.
Posted By: piston79
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 09/29/13 08:15 PM
Originally Posted By: Lieste
T55-M2 on the gunners CP? Is that correct, or is this a franken-tank?
I think this is ZSU-23-4M2 mod, without SRP and antena, but with night vision - a (field) modification for the Afghanistan war...
Posted By: Tantalwz88
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/04/13 01:14 PM
Hello i found this page with pretty good interior and exterior model of the shilka http://defendingrussia.ru/shilka/ i hope that this will be helpfull to the creator.
Posted By: piston79
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/04/13 05:03 PM
Originally Posted By: Tantalwz88
Hello i found this page with pretty good interior and exterior model of the shilka http://defendingrussia.ru/shilka/ i hope that this will be helpfull to the creator.
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3843270/Re_ZSU_23_4V1_Shilka#Post3843270
A bit late, but thanks you!
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/07/13 09:48 AM
indian shilka
Posted By: piston79
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 11/27/13 08:58 PM
A bit not in her specialty, but it doin' it right! (after 2:05)
P.S. Note the whistling sound before shots, is it the liquid pump?
P.S. Note the whistling sound before shots, is it the liquid pump?
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/16/13 10:39 AM
Originally Posted By: piston79
P.S. Note the whistling sound before shots, is it the liquid pump?
Correct...
... water cooling 2.8 kW electrical pump with 8 atm pressure.
In the real world, a button should be pressed before firing, to start the pump.
Posted By: ricnunes
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 05/09/14 02:21 PM
I don't know if this was mentioned before or requested but since we have optics now (with the SA-8) could we have the optics as well for the Shilka (in order to engage without using the radar) in a future patch? Or is it already being considered?
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 05/09/14 03:07 PM
Originally Posted By: ricnunes
I don't know if this was mentioned before or requested but since we have optics now (with the SA-8) could we have the optics as well for the Shilka (in order to engage without using the radar) in a future patch? Or is it already being considered?
Yes with, Volhov, Neva, (maybe KRUG), and Shilka it is considered as a possible future item.
Posted By: ricnunes
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 05/09/14 08:24 PM
Thanks for the reply Hpasp.
Can't wait to play with the Shilka using the optics
Can't wait to play with the Shilka using the optics
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 05/10/14 12:55 PM
Originally Posted By: ricnunes
Thanks for the reply Hpasp.
Can't wait to play with the Shilka using the optics
Can't wait to play with the Shilka using the optics
To be honest, it might be fun to see the flying tracers...
... but I do not think, that anybody could hit a real fast plane using optics instead of using the radar.
- You need to select one of the four targeting reticle (60/120/220/300) guestimated by the target speed.
- Align target path crossing the middle of the reticle.
- Based on target relative course, you select aiming ring. (1/4 - 2/4 - 3/4 - 4/4)
- When the target is at 1000m range, you have some chance of hit...
Posted By: ricnunes
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 05/11/14 01:02 AM
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
To be honest, it might be fun to see the flying tracers...
... but I do not think, that anybody could hit a real fast plane using optics instead of using the radar.
Yes indeed, but for example these two would be a very different case:
Posted By: piston79
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 05/15/14 05:36 PM
Probably Shilka:
Posted By: Comrade_Hedgehog
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 07/28/14 08:07 PM
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: ricnunes
I don't know if this was mentioned before or requested but since we have optics now (with the SA-8) could we have the optics as well for the Shilka (in order to engage without using the radar) in a future patch? Or is it already being considered?
Yes with, Volhov, Neva, (maybe KRUG), and Shilka it is considered as a possible future item.
IMHO Shilka should be No.1 Priority for Optics.
Posted By: scrim
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 07/28/14 09:56 PM
Wouldn't be bad to get some more missions for it. The Libyan mission always ends up with me never even seeing the F-111s, and the training range scenario isn't that fun in the long run. What about having it in some War of Attrition missions, didn't the Egyptians have Shilkas?
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 08/16/14 07:02 PM
Originally Posted By: scrim
Wouldn't be bad to get some more missions for it. The Libyan mission always ends up with me never even seeing the F-111s, and the training range scenario isn't that fun in the long run. What about having it in some War of Attrition missions, didn't the Egyptians have Shilkas?
Egypt is on the cards for Shilka...
Posted By: scrim
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 08/17/14 02:21 AM
I was about to suggest Operation Opera, but Egypt sounds great. Looking forward to it!
Posted By: piston79
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 08/25/14 04:30 AM
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: scrim
Wouldn't be bad to get some more missions for it. The Libyan mission always ends up with me never even seeing the F-111s, and the training range scenario isn't that fun in the long run. What about having it in some War of Attrition missions, didn't the Egyptians have Shilkas?
Egypt is on the cards for Shilka...
Same with S-200VE "VEGA"... New scenarios needed ("Baltic express", Vladivostok...).
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 08/25/14 06:41 AM
Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: scrim
Wouldn't be bad to get some more missions for it. The Libyan mission always ends up with me never even seeing the F-111s, and the training range scenario isn't that fun in the long run. What about having it in some War of Attrition missions, didn't the Egyptians have Shilkas?
Egypt is on the cards for Shilka...
Same with S-200VE "VEGA"... New scenarios needed ("Baltic express", Vladivostok...).
Seriously needed!
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 08/26/14 06:26 AM
Would a "Mission Editor" solve your request?
(where you could create, save, and share your situations)
(where you could create, save, and share your situations)
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 08/26/14 07:40 AM
This would be awesome too :-) But real historical events are also very very useful
Posted By: piston79
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 08/26/14 10:09 AM
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Would a "Mission Editor" solve your request?
(where you could create, save, and share your situations)
(where you could create, save, and share your situations)
Nope... You're doing really interesting start screens on every mission
... also not sure we could match your deep technical, historical and tactical investigation of situations and their representation in the SIM... Also I need to remind you you owe me a mission for S-200VE (I even agreed to say goodby to Vladivostok in favor of "Baltic express" as for the second one you have video, maps, heavy traffic and even some data fron SR-71 book... ).
Posted By: scrim
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 08/26/14 01:40 PM
A mission editor would be great! It'd be a good addition to the current missions, and if user made missions could be shared I'm sure there'd at least be a few people who'd make scenarios.
Posted By: ePap
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 08/27/14 12:01 PM
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Would a "Mission Editor" solve your request?
(where you could create, save, and share your situations)
(where you could create, save, and share your situations)
+1000
When it is going to be ready ?
...next weekend may be ?
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 08/28/14 07:05 AM
Originally Posted By: ePap
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Would a "Mission Editor" solve your request?
(where you could create, save, and share your situations)
(where you could create, save, and share your situations)
+1000
When it is going to be ready ?
...next weekend may be ?
Just after this one (and the Volhov Karat)...
Posted By: piston79
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 08/28/14 02:03 PM
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
[/quote]
Just after this one (and the Volhov Karat)...
Just after this one (and the Volhov Karat)...
So, for "Shilka" - new missions, but for S-200VE - some fictional editor after 2 or 3 years????
Posted By: scrim
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 08/28/14 03:27 PM
Dude, you're getting this for free. If it bothers you that much, make some real scenarios when the editor's out.
Besides, there's already at least 2-3 times as many SA-5 scenarios as there are Shilka scenarios, so I don't understand how you can feel it's not balanced.
Besides, there's already at least 2-3 times as many SA-5 scenarios as there are Shilka scenarios, so I don't understand how you can feel it's not balanced.
Posted By: piston79
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 08/28/14 05:12 PM
Deleted
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 08/28/14 05:39 PM
Cool down guys.
Generally putting a system into an existing situation is much easier than creating a completely new one.
Generally putting a system into an existing situation is much easier than creating a completely new one.
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 08/29/14 05:52 PM
Non-Historical Scenario...
(South East of Cairo)
(South East of Cairo)
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 08/31/14 06:57 PM
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/15/14 11:44 AM
Posted By: farokh
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 10/19/14 09:06 PM
oh ohhh ohhhhh
you smart hpasp :*
....
god must kiss your hands for this one !
"shilka's scope"
you smart hpasp :*
....
god must kiss your hands for this one !
"shilka's scope"
Posted By: piston79
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 12/06/14 05:57 PM
Look at that!...
Posted By: piston79
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/28/15 07:28 PM
Syrian field upgrade!
Posted By: Comrade_Hedgehog
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/29/15 09:31 AM
The biggest improvement:
New Engine.
Yes Please!
My opinion?
No. 1 Priority Mission Editor.
No. 2 Priority Shilka Optics.
New Engine.
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Would a "Mission Editor" solve your request?
(where you could create, save, and share your situations)
(where you could create, save, and share your situations)
Yes Please!
My opinion?
No. 1 Priority Mission Editor.
No. 2 Priority Shilka Optics.
Posted By: tebe_interesno
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 04/27/15 09:53 AM
well hello
Not so long ago, decided to completely redraw the system and panels of Shilka.
That is, until I stop there.
Can you somehow need it?
Not so long ago, decided to completely redraw the system and panels of Shilka.
That is, until I stop there.
Can you somehow need it?
Posted By: Buren
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 05/20/15 06:54 AM
I really like your clean, crisp art style, tebe_interesno!
This and the Tunguska (in the other thread) look amazing!
Hpasp,
are you considering including this panel (when it's completely finished)?
Maybe include an option to choose between this or the original?
This and the Tunguska (in the other thread) look amazing!
Hpasp,
are you considering including this panel (when it's completely finished)?
Maybe include an option to choose between this or the original?
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 08/23/15 11:50 AM
Shilka with Laser Gun...
Posted By: Hpasp
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 04/20/16 08:46 PM
Posted By: KJakker
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 04/20/16 09:34 PM
From the Manga & Anime "Girls und Panzer".
Posted By: KJakker
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 06/12/22 04:35 AM
Posted By: piston79
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 06/15/22 04:35 PM
Originally Posted by KJakker
interesting and rare
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 06/30/22 09:41 PM
Originally Posted by KJakker
Nice
Posted By: KJakker
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 01/24/23 09:14 PM
Ukrainian ZSU-23-4 Shilka in ground attack mode, plus Magyar’s “Ratatatatatatata”, somewhere near Bakhmut. The Russian unit at the receiving end eliminated.
https://twitter.com/Tendar/status/1617294275812679682
https:/
Posted By: piston79
Re: ZSU-23-4V1 Shilka - 03/26/23 07:17 PM
Originally Posted by KJakker
Ukrainian ZSU-23-4 Shilka in ground attack mode, plus Magyar’s “Ratatatatatatata”, somewhere near Bakhmut. The Russian unit at the receiving end eliminated.
https://twitter.com/Tendar/status/1617294275812679682
https:/
Another Shilka - absolute beast!
https:/