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Allied Force B-2A Raid on Belgrade

Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Allied Force B-2A Raid on Belgrade - 08/08/12 10:44 AM

My first effort in the new scenario :-)

Click to reveal..
22:06pm 30th of April, 1999.
Operation Allied Force, B-2A raid on Belgrade

Targets:
Nat'l MOD HQ
FRY MUP HQ
MOD HQ South
Serb MUP HQ
Army HQ Facility A

Supporting force:
F-15C Eagle CAP
F-16CJ Falcon SEAD
EA-6B Prowler ECM
RQ-1 Predator UAV

S-125M1 Neva


00:01:53, F-16CJ Falcon SEAD Number-3 launched AGM-88 HARM missile No. 1


00:02:14, V601PD 5V27D Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 8km
Target azimuth: 181°
Target elevation: 20°
Target altitude: 3km
Missile guidance method: PS (Lead)


00:02:18, V601PD 5V27D Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 5km
Target azimuth: 181°
Target elevation: 20°
Target altitude: 2km
Missile guidance method: PS (Lead)


00:02:22, Missile exploded on Channel-1
AGM-88 (HARM) High Speed Anti Radiation Missile No. 1 launched from F-16CJ Falcon SEAD Number-3 killed by SAM. (miss distance: 0m)

00:02:24, Missile exploded on Channel-2
AGM-88 (HARM) High Speed Anti Radiation Missile No. 1 launched from F-16CJ Falcon SEAD Number-3 killed by SAM. (miss distance: 4m)

00:02:29, F-16CJ Falcon SEAD Number-4 launched AGM-88 HARM missile No. 1


00:03:22, SNR knocked out by HARM


Total, SNR On Air Time: 1min 25sec


I turned SNR on about five seconds before hit :-)
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: Allied Force B-2A Raid on Belgrade - 08/08/12 01:15 PM

Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
My first effort in the new scenario :-)

Click to reveal..
22:06pm 30th of April, 1999.
Operation Allied Force, B-2A raid on Belgrade

Targets:
Nat'l MOD HQ
FRY MUP HQ
MOD HQ South
Serb MUP HQ
Army HQ Facility A

Supporting force:
F-15C Eagle CAP
F-16CJ Falcon SEAD
EA-6B Prowler ECM
RQ-1 Predator UAV

S-125M1 Neva


00:01:53, F-16CJ Falcon SEAD Number-3 launched AGM-88 HARM missile No. 1


00:02:14, V601PD 5V27D Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 8km
Target azimuth: 181°
Target elevation: 20°
Target altitude: 3km
Missile guidance method: PS (Lead)


00:02:18, V601PD 5V27D Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 5km
Target azimuth: 181°
Target elevation: 20°
Target altitude: 2km
Missile guidance method: PS (Lead)


00:02:22, Missile exploded on Channel-1
AGM-88 (HARM) High Speed Anti Radiation Missile No. 1 launched from F-16CJ Falcon SEAD Number-3 killed by SAM. (miss distance: 0m)

00:02:24, Missile exploded on Channel-2
AGM-88 (HARM) High Speed Anti Radiation Missile No. 1 launched from F-16CJ Falcon SEAD Number-3 killed by SAM. (miss distance: 4m)

00:02:29, F-16CJ Falcon SEAD Number-4 launched AGM-88 HARM missile No. 1


00:03:22, SNR knocked out by HARM


Total, SNR On Air Time: 1min 25sec


I turned SNR on about five seconds before hit :-)


Total, SNR On Air Time: 1min 25sec

85s on air time is way too long in this environment.
Posted By: piston79

Re: Allied Force B-2A Raid on Belgrade - 08/08/12 01:45 PM

Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
My first effort in the new scenario :-)

Click to reveal..
22:06pm 30th of April, 1999.
Operation Allied Force, B-2A raid on Belgrade

Targets:
Nat'l MOD HQ
FRY MUP HQ
MOD HQ South
Serb MUP HQ
Army HQ Facility A

Supporting force:
F-15C Eagle CAP
F-16CJ Falcon SEAD
EA-6B Prowler ECM
RQ-1 Predator UAV

S-125M1 Neva


00:01:53, F-16CJ Falcon SEAD Number-3 launched AGM-88 HARM missile No. 1


00:02:14, V601PD 5V27D Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 8km
Target azimuth: 181°
Target elevation: 20°
Target altitude: 3km
Missile guidance method: PS (Lead)


00:02:18, V601PD 5V27D Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 5km
Target azimuth: 181°
Target elevation: 20°
Target altitude: 2km
Missile guidance method: PS (Lead)


00:02:22, Missile exploded on Channel-1
AGM-88 (HARM) High Speed Anti Radiation Missile No. 1 launched from F-16CJ Falcon SEAD Number-3 killed by SAM. (miss distance: 0m)

00:02:24, Missile exploded on Channel-2
AGM-88 (HARM) High Speed Anti Radiation Missile No. 1 launched from F-16CJ Falcon SEAD Number-3 killed by SAM. (miss distance: 4m)

00:02:29, F-16CJ Falcon SEAD Number-4 launched AGM-88 HARM missile No. 1


00:03:22, SNR knocked out by HARM


Total, SNR On Air Time: 1min 25sec


I turned SNR on about five seconds before hit :-)


My IRZ saved my SNR, but I didn't shot even a HARM, they just overrunned me...
What was idea with the Predator UAV, it just stood there...?
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: Allied Force B-2A Raid on Belgrade - 08/08/12 02:07 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79

My IRZ saved my SNR, but I didn't shot even a HARM, they just overrunned me...


At least you saved your crew and equipment for the next day...

Originally Posted By: piston79

What was idea with the Predator UAV, it just stood there...?


The unarmed RQ-1 Predator UAV was flown from the Hungarian Air Force Base of Taszar during OAF.


It had low speed (less than 100m/s), but provided visual battlefield reconnaissance capability beyond the expected SAM rings.

Sometimes when Serbian defenders were annoyed by this, they sent out a mobile Strela-1 (SA-9) unit to hunt it down.


This one is ended at the Air Defense Museum in Belgrade.

Posted By: piston79

Re: Allied Force B-2A Raid on Belgrade - 08/08/12 03:49 PM

Quote:
The unarmed RQ-1 Predator UAV was flown from the Hungarian Air Force Base of Taszar during OAF.
It had low speed (less than 100m/s), but provided visual battlefield reconnaissance capability beyond the expected SAM rings.



It also used noise jamming when iluminated by the radar... thumbsup

EDIT: Why LGB tracks not vissible in 3D AAR?
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: Allied Force B-2A Raid on Belgrade - 08/08/12 04:29 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Quote:
The unarmed RQ-1 Predator UAV was flown from the Hungarian Air Force Base of Taszar during OAF.
It had low speed (less than 100m/s), but provided visual battlefield reconnaissance capability beyond the expected SAM rings.



It also used noise jamming when iluminated by the radar... thumbsup

EDIT: Why LGB tracks not vissible in 3D AAR?


LGB is an optically aimed Weapon.

After launching more than 1000 HARM missile during the first phase of OAF (without any considerable success due to the use of the IRZ) NATO decided to change tactics from SEAD (Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses - just launching HARM's against emitters), to DEAD (Destruction of Enemy Air Defenses - positively killing the SAM site).

This tactic meant pairing the F-16CJ Weasel Falcons, with the F-16CG Night Falcons.

When the HTS pod of the F-16CJ "Weasel in a Can" detected SAM threat, it launched a HARM against it, to suppress its illumination...
... and sent the SAM unit coordinates (as a way-point) to the F-16CG "Night Falcon" equipped with a LANTRIN pod.
The Night Falcon visually identified the SAM, and used LGB, or Cluster bombs to KILL the SAM Unit...

Sometimes this "DEAD" tactic succeed, but the equipment usually stayed in repairable condition...
... 1/250rd PVO at Banovci





PS: "EDIT: Why LGB tracks not vissible in 3D AAR?"
Non guided bombs, were never be visible in 3DAAR.
(same with Egypt situations...)
Posted By: piston79

Re: Allied Force B-2A Raid on Belgrade - 08/08/12 05:00 PM

Quote
Non guided bombs, were never be visible in 3DAAR.

Laser Guided Munitions ARE guided!... wink

Also, is this the real performance of HARM?
[Linked Image]

This miracle HTS pod loaded up coordinates to HARM and it goes, no matter of the course angle?

Also, believe found a bug - when lock on noise jamming and switch off transmition, it stays locked on, and still walking with the target... We cannot have such good F1/F2 operators, can we??? (it's on NEVA, believe no problem with SA-2 family, but not tested...)
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: Allied Force B-2A Raid on Belgrade - 08/08/12 05:39 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79

Also, is this the real performance of HARM?


This miracle HTS pod loaded up coordinates to HARM and it goes, no matter of the course angle?


Yes, HARM can be launched at an emitter BEHIND the Weasel!

Be aware, that all the Weasels in the scenario are sharing target information using on-board data link.
(The HTS pod has approx 180 degree view, so this is why always Weasels fly at the opposite direction from the target.)
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: Allied Force B-2A Raid on Belgrade - 08/08/12 05:57 PM

As I recreated these historically accurate battles, I felt myself as a SAM fan more and more desperate...

While we still use '50~'60s Soviet technology (except the nice to have IRZ), our foes changed their B-52's to F-117A & B-2A, and their dumb Shrike "bottle rockets" to the HTS pod (with detected SAM Geo-location data sharing capability to other Vipers in the theater)+HARM SEAD, plus the DEAD Night vision Capable F-16CG with LANTRIN+LGB.

The Video8 tape of the F-16CG (serial: 88-0550) shot down by 3/250rd PVO (third SAMSIM mission) was salvaged by the Serbian military...
... here is how DEAD work (and sometime it fails...) from the Night Falcon view.




http://vimeo.com/802793

Internal clock of the F-16CG Night Falcon is used:

00:04:00 "hammer2 you got steerpoint 41, I'm sorry hammer3 you got it"
CRACK3 F-16CJ HTS pod located 3/250rdPVO and sent its coordinates to HAMMER3 F-16CG as "Steerpoint-42".

00:04:47 "crack3 magnum 6 golf 100"
HARM shot against 3/250 rd PVO from CRACK3 F-16CJ

after the HARM missed, 3rdPVO starts their real battle...

00:04:58 "hammer status" - "hammer21 left to steer 6" - "crack73 AAA" - "hammer2 hammer3 AAA back in your position"
3/250rdPVO illuminated the F-16CG for a short time, while the AAA defending the "Veliki Radinici" reserve AFB distracted the pilots.

00:05:30 "hammer status" - "hammer1 is going to target that (AAA) underneath you"

00:05:45 "2 supported"
3/250rdPVO started continuous target tracking.

00:06:00 "we're attacking AAA 15 west of bull"

00:06:17 V-601PD missiles are launched by 3/250rdPVO

00:06:24 "mud3 north - visual"
one Viper pilot seen the SA-3 missiles

00:06:36 "mud3 hit" - CAUTION!!! - "mud three just hit again" - "hammer1 defending" - "mud3 just take a hit"

ON Air Time total: 51s
00:05:45-00:06:17; 32s target tracking
00:06:17-00:06:36; 19s missile flight till kill

Posted By: piston79

Re: Allied Force B-2A Raid on Belgrade - 08/08/12 06:37 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp

Yes, HARM can be launched at an emitter BEHIND the Weasel!


I am aware of that, but the trajectory seems too sharp for me (it's not AA missile, anyways)... Of course, it's not so important, just notice it...

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
As I recreated these historically accurate battles, I felt myself as a SAM fan more and more desperate...



Mee too... But now I have respect to guys, which defend their Motherland even more...
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: Allied Force B-2A Raid on Belgrade - 08/08/12 06:38 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp


Total, SNR On Air Time: 1min 25sec

85s on air time is way too long in this environment.



It is cumulative, but I agree, it is too much.
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: Allied Force B-2A Raid on Belgrade - 08/08/12 07:41 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79

Also, believe found a bug - when lock on noise jamming and switch off transmition, it stays locked on, and still walking with the target... We cannot have such good F1/F2 operators, can we??? (it's on NEVA, believe no problem with SA-2 family, but not tested...)


I will check it tomorrow...
... seems to be an obvious bug left from the Volhov code...
Posted By: Wolfhound

Re: Allied Force B-2A Raid on Belgrade - 08/08/12 09:25 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
As I recreated these historically accurate battles, I felt myself as a SAM fan more and more desperate...

While we still use '50~'60s Soviet technology (except the nice to have IRZ), our foes changed their B-52's to F-117A & B-2A, and their dumb Shrike "bottle rockets" to the HTS pod (with detected SAM Geo-location data sharing capability to other Vipers in the theater)+HARM SEAD, plus the DEAD Night vision Capable F-16CG with LANTRIN+LGB.

The Video8 tape of the F-16CG (serial: 88-0550) shot down by 3/250rd PVO (third SAMSIM mission) was salvaged by the Serbian military...
... here is how DEAD work (and sometime it fails...) from the Night Falcon view.

http://vimeo.com/802793

Internal clock of the F-16CG Night Falcon is used:

00:04:00 "hammer2 you got steerpoint 41, I'm sorry hammer3 you got it"
CRACK3 F-16CJ HTS pod located 3/250rdPVO and sent its coordinates to HAMMER3 F-16CG as "Steerpoint-42".

00:04:47 "crack3 magnum 6 golf 100"
HARM shot against 3/250 rd PVO from CRACK3 F-16CJ

after the HARM missed, 3rdPVO starts their real battle...

00:04:58 "hammer status" - "hammer21 left to steer 6" - "crack73 AAA" - "hammer2 hammer3 AAA back in your position"
3/250rdPVO illuminated the F-16CG for a short time, while the AAA defending the "Veliki Radinici" reserve AFB distracted the pilots.

00:05:30 "hammer status" - "hammer1 is going to target that (AAA) underneath you"

00:05:45 "2 supported"
3/250rdPVO started continuous target tracking.

00:06:00 "we're attacking AAA 15 west of bull"

00:06:17 V-601PD missiles are launched by 3/250rdPVO

00:06:24 "mud3 north - visual"
one Viper pilot seen the SA-3 missiles

00:06:36 "mud3 hit" - CAUTION!!! - "mud three just hit again" - "hammer1 defending" - "mud3 just take a hit"

ON Air Time total: 51s
00:05:45-00:06:17; 32s target tracking
00:06:17-00:06:36; 19s missile flight till kill



Nice post thumbsup
Was that some sort of SAM ambush, as mud3 didn't really seem to perform any evasive manoeuvres before being hit?

The detailed tactics used by SAM operators both offensively and defensively are very interesting. Usually you'd think with weasels in the air there was very little they could do, being sitting ducks if they ever emitted. I think the time it takes the SEAD systems to triangulate/isolate the emitting source also plays a part, but with LGB and CBU equipped aircraft, one could be forgiven for thinking that it wouldn't take too long before the site was located, once the SEAD platform had narrowed the location to within a few miles (assuming the site isn't within a populated city).
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: Allied Force B-2A Raid on Belgrade - 08/09/12 05:24 AM

Originally Posted By: Wolfhound

Was that some sort of SAM ambush, as mud3 didn't really seem to perform any evasive manoeuvres before being hit?


mud3 is the SA-3 SAM, hammer3 is who got killed.

It was not an ambush, as hammer3 received the SA-3 position two and half minutes before kill.

He was probably busy steering his LANTRIN pod around Steerpoint-42 to find the SNR, while he was distracted with the AAA below him, or in reality you cannot really pull 9G's with ALE-50 deployed.
(He actually pulled something over 2G's)

Originally Posted By: Wolfhound

The detailed tactics used by SAM operators both offensively and defensively are very interesting. Usually you'd think with weasels in the air there was very little they could do, being sitting ducks if they ever emitted. I think the time it takes the SEAD systems to triangulate/isolate the emitting source also plays a part, but with LGB and CBU equipped aircraft, one could be forgiven for thinking that it wouldn't take too long before the site was located, once the SEAD platform had narrowed the location to within a few miles (assuming the site isn't within a populated city).


SAM battle is continuously evolving through the history, and it is never about a "magical new jamming type" that makes all SAM's blind, or a "brand new type of SAM system" that could kill all planes.
It is always about using tactics in an effective way.

While the highly mobile S-300PM (SA-20A) units received point defense Pantsir (SA-22) defense against incoming HARM&LGB's, the F-16CJ's are now dually using the HTS and the LANTRIN pod on the same plane. During OAF, where the F-16CJ & F-16CG should work in a very coordinated way to succeed (HARM should be in the air, while the F-16CG is going in for the kill), the new F-16CJ could do it alone.

If you watch the video you could see, that real battle stress under AAA fire, made difficult to send a steerpoint from a CJ to a CG...

00:04:00 "hammer2 you got steerpoint 41, I'm sorry hammer3 you got it"

... it was steerpoint 42, and was sent to hammer3.
Posted By: jazjar

Re: Allied Force B-2A Raid on Belgrade - 08/18/12 11:37 PM

Very tough. I admire the US Air Force for creating such creative tactics. It is so funny how some people just say that Zoltan Dani was the only creative guy and US Air Force was just going by the book uncreatively. I was personally shocked at the number of aircraft NATO lost. I expected many more losses, and something more from the Mig pilots of the YuAF.
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: Allied Force B-2A Raid on Belgrade - 08/23/12 01:29 PM

Originally Posted By: jazjar
Very tough. I admire the US Air Force for creating such creative tactics. It is so funny how some people just say that Zoltan Dani was the only creative guy and US Air Force was just going by the book uncreatively.


Zoltan Dani was just one important screw of that SAM battery...
... all of his soldiers (manual trackers, P-18 operators, missile loaders, truck drivers, etc) were performing at their peak.

Originally Posted By: jazjar
I was personally shocked at the number of aircraft NATO lost.


NATO lost two piloted planes "on the spot" (F-117A, F-16CJ)...
... several unmanned Drones were also shot down...
... some other planes were hit and damaged (Mirage, Tornado, F-117A)

Huge numbers of AN/ALE-50 was hit during the war.

Originally Posted By: jazjar
I expected many more losses, and something more from the Mig pilots of the YuAF.


While Fighter Pilots made movies, SAM Officers made History.

Actually MiG-29 and KUB underperformed the expectations during OAF.
Posted By: apelles

Re: Allied Force B-2A Raid on Belgrade - 10/09/12 06:15 AM



http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-2009-02.html
Posted By: Hpasp

Two sided coin... - 02/08/13 05:27 PM

http://www.airforce-magazine.com/MagazineArchive/Pages/2000/June%202000/0600silver.aspx

On April 14, Capt. Cary N. Culbertson was leading a flight of F-16CJs that was providing suppression of enemy air defenses for B-2 bombers on a strike mission near Belgrade. The Serbs fired three SA-3s-presumably at the F-16s and not at the stealthy and much higher B-2s. Culbertson turned his F-16 toward the rising missiles and attacked the SA-3 site with a High-speed Anti-Radiation Missile. Then the Serbs launched two more SA-3s, this time directly at Culbertson's jet. "At this point," says Culbertson's Silver Star citation, "Captain Culbertson would have been justified to discontinue his attack and defend against the incoming missiles, but instead, with total disregard for his own personal safety and [with] the lives of his flight members foremost in his mind, he continued his attack." He fired another HARM, which took out the SAM radar. Then he evaded the SA-3s. The Serbs tried one more time from a different site, firing another salvo of SA-3s-and drawing a HARM from Culbertson's wingman.

That night, the 250/4rd PVO was operating from the south of Dolovo town.
They launched 2 missiles Betha=90, D=8, when a HARM was launched against from their back, Betha=30.
They immediately launched 2 new missiles against the new target at Betha=30, D=13.

The HARM detonation sprayed fragments at the UNK and the UNV vans.
The battery suffered two injuries.



On Google Earth, you can still find the place where this battle was fought.



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Capt. Sonny P. Blinkinsop also took unusual risks to protect his fellow pilots from Serb missiles. While he led a group of F-16CJs against some SAM sites near Obrva, Yugoslavia, on May 2, the Serbs launched several SA-3s at the formation. As one of the F-16s turned to fire a HARM at the SAM battery, another salvo of SA-3s was launched. Blinkinsop turned his aircraft toward the launch site-and into the path of the oncoming missiles-to fire a HARM at the battery. That act silenced the site. Then as the F-16s were reforming, the Serbs launched two more SA-3s at a second wave of NATO strike aircraft entering the area. Blinkinsop fired his last HARM at that SAM battery, shutting it down and letting the strikers escape safely. Blinkinsop's disregard for his own safety during this mission earned him the Silver Star.



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The final Silver Star recipient may have done as much to save a colleague as any of the rescue forces. On June 7, Maj. William L. Thomas Jr. was flying with a group of F-16s near Batajnica airfield, near Belgrade, when he located four Serbian MiG-29s parked below. He and his wingman each destroyed one of the jets on a first pass over the airfield. On a second pass Thomas destroyed a third MiG. But the Serbs, meanwhile, had fired two SA-3s, which forced Thomas's wingman into evasive maneuvers. The plume from one of the missiles temporarily blinded the wingman, who went into a low-altitude dive in the midst of a AAA field. Thomas flew into the AAA zone and dispensed flares, so the artillery barrages would target him instead of his wingman. It worked. Both pilots escaped.

It was Dani Zoltan's 250/3rd PVO last shooting (7th) of the war.
They were located north of Dec, and launched 2 missiles at 23:54 (Beta=0, D=15km), using TV-RL guidance.
Both missiles were missed.




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The other two Silver Star situation of the OAF are exist in the SAMSIM.
biggrin
Posted By: piston79

Re: Two sided coin... - 02/08/13 07:52 PM


Quote:
It was Dani Zoltan's 250/3rd PVO last shooting (7th) of the war.
They were located north of Dec, and launched 2 missiles at 23:54 (Beta=0, D=15km), using TV-RL guidance.
Both missiles were missed.



Interesting, they shot at big parameter and used TV on night?..

About "Tripple Nickel" F-16:

Quote:
One F-16 which officially downed example. Rejected ordnance in the result, but one rocket fell in front of private houses near Obrenovac vilage Zvecka, actually hit the terrace at the house. The consequences are still visible today.
Signs that it's possible to do the same to the pilot and the F-117....


http://www.mycity-military.com/Ostalo-3/Kako-je-oboren-F-117_22.html
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: Two sided coin... - 02/08/13 08:01 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Interesting, they shot at big parameter and used TV on night?..


The P18 was working as advertised.

The 250/3rd PVO had an infra camera in place of the Karat...
... they used it twice, and failed to hit.

One F-16 which officially downed example. Rejected ordnance in the result, but one rocket fell in front of private houses near Obrenovac vilage Zvecka, actually hit the terrace at the house.

Zvecka is pretty far from there...
Posted By: piston79

Re: Two sided coin... - 02/08/13 08:37 PM

About O'Grady:

Quote:
Six days after O'Grady was shot down, U.S. Marines, braving Serbian missiles and rebel guns, flew helicopters into hostile territory and rescued the pilot who had remained in hiding after being shot down.

Members of a de-mining team had recently reported the location of scattered wreckage of a military aircraft. The wreckage was located between the towns of Prijedor and Drvar in what is now Republika Srpska, the Bosnian Serb half of postwar Bosnia. The crash site is densely thicketed and in a mountainous area of known and suspected mine hazards.

A survey team conducted a thorough search of the area, discovering the main impact point and many pieces of the aircraft spread over a wide area. They found several man-size pieces of the wing and airframe, but most of the wreckage consisted of small metal fragments.

Posted By: Vympel

Re: Two sided coin... - 02/08/13 08:44 PM

Not 100%, but Im pretty sure all of 4 MiG-29s destroyed on the ground were destroyed long before 7th June. So they destroyed 3 models/decoys that day.
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: Two sided coin... - 02/08/13 09:04 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
About O'Grady:

Quote:
Six days after O'Grady was shot down, U.S. Marines, braving Serbian missiles and rebel guns, flew helicopters into hostile territory and rescued the pilot who had remained in hiding after being shot down.

Members of a de-mining team had recently reported the location of scattered wreckage of a military aircraft. The wreckage was located between the towns of Prijedor and Drvar in what is now Republika Srpska, the Bosnian Serb half of postwar Bosnia. The crash site is densely thicketed and in a mountainous area of known and suspected mine hazards.

A survey team conducted a thorough search of the area, discovering the main impact point and many pieces of the aircraft spread over a wide area. They found several man-size pieces of the wing and airframe, but most of the wreckage consisted of small metal fragments.



I have all the necessary details of the O'Grady incident...


... just cannot create it into SAMSIM.
sigh
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: Two sided coin... - 02/08/13 09:44 PM

Originally Posted By: Vympel
Not 100%, but Im pretty sure all of 4 MiG-29s destroyed on the ground were destroyed long before 7th June. So they destroyed 3 models/decoys that day.


The history of the MiG-29's during OAF, is one thing I never investigated deeply.
I know, that the 204 IAP of Batajnica had 14 MiG-29 and 2 MiG-29U fighters when the war started.


Last day before the war broke out, 2 MiG-29 was sent to Nis, 2 to Ponikve, and one to Podgorica. (9 stayed at Batajnica, excluding the trainers)
Note that MiG-29 is named as L-18 in Serbia, while the MiG-21 is named as L-17.


24th of March, US F-15C "Knife-13" killed MiG-29.
24th of March, US F-15C "Edge-61" killed MiG-29.
24th of March, Dutch F-16AM killed MiG-29.
26th of March, US F-15C "Dirk-21" killed 2x MiG-29.
4th of May, US F-16CJ "Puma-11" killed MiG-29.

... so total of 6 MiG-29 was destroyed in dogfight, without achieving any result.
(what happened with the other 8+2, I do not know.)


Posted By: Vympel

Re: Two sided coin... - 02/08/13 11:06 PM

Total of 5 MiG-29s survived the war. 4 MiG-29B and 1 MiG-29UB. One 29B has crashed since then.
Six were shot down by NATO aircraft
Four were destroyed on the ground (3 in Batajnica Air Base, 1 In Nis)
One was shot down by KUB (Friendly fire)

I also read that one of the six shot down bu NATO had Strela-1 fragments in wreckage, hit on its way down probably.

As for not achieving results, we must mention the conditions the aircraft were in. The country was under sanctions for almost 10 years at the time war broke out. Despite the fact that every aircraft took off with all systems operational, after a few minutes in the air things started to go bad. Some of the most critical systems quit working (Radar, SPO, electrical generators...). So basically they were flying blind at medium altitude. They had to rely on R-73s. Unfortunately NATO situational awareness, numbers and BVR superiority were more than a match for MiGs with only GCI. And it was not effective GCI, I read some transcripts of radio communications and it was chaos.
Posted By: piston79

Re: Two sided coin... - 02/27/13 08:13 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp

The 250/3rd PVO had an infra camera in place of the Karat...
... they used it twice, and failed to hit.


WOW! Somehow I missed that!!! Zoltan Dani's SNR has infrared????? jawdrop

By the way, not sure it is for this topic but:

Comprasion F-117/F-22

Note "Rate of climb" section... 80 m/s for F-117... If we multiplied this by time of engagement we will have ~ 2km change in altitude... thumbsup

P.S. No idea is this the real rate of climb or not...
Posted By: piston79

Re: Two sided coin... - 06/14/14 11:38 AM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: piston79
Interesting, they shot at big parameter and used TV on night?..


The P18 was working as advertised.

The 250/3rd PVO had an infra camera in place of the Karat...
... they used it twice, and failed to hit.




Could you confirm again that Dani's battery is equipped with IR-TOV (those famous "Philips" things?). Maybe F-117A is downed with it, but all we knew is just a lie????????? Does anyone ever heard from a member of the crew in interview about such thing on the UNV??????
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: Two sided coin... - 06/14/14 11:59 AM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: piston79
Interesting, they shot at big parameter and used TV on night?..


The P18 was working as advertised.

The 250/3rd PVO had an infra camera in place of the Karat...
... they used it twice, and failed to hit.




Could you confirm again that Dani's battery is equipped with IR-TOV (those famous "Philips" things?). Maybe F-117A is downed with it, but all we knew is just a lie????????? Does anyone ever heard from a member of the crew in interview about such thing on the UNV??????


YES and NO.
As always, if you discuss real history.
biggrin

3/250 fired 7 times, and used 13 missiles.

1. 1999.03.27. (Simanovci) - 2 missiles launched, only one zachvat - F117A kill
2. 1999.04.29. (Ogar) - 1 missile launched (the other was not due to PU failure) - miss
3. 1999.04.30. (Petrovcic) - 2 missiles launched, 1 had radio proxy worked
4. 1999.05.02. (Karlovcic) - 2 missiles launched, only one zachvat - F16CG kill
5. 1999.05.20. (Becmen) - 2 missiles launched, 2 had radio proxy worked
6. 1999.05.31. (Karlovcic) - first infra TV shooting, 2 missiles launched, both miss
7. 1999.06.08. (Dec) - second infra TV shooting, 2 missiles launched, both miss
Posted By: piston79

Re: Two sided coin... - 06/14/14 12:11 PM

1. Does this infrared was mounted on 27.03.2014
2. Why not used in other cases (bad weather?).
3. Now about the other UNV, does they use it more?
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: Two sided coin... - 06/14/14 12:21 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
1. Does this infrared was mounted on 27.03.2014
2. Why not used in other cases (bad weather?).
3. Now about the other UNV, does they use it more?


First infra shooting was the 6th.
Both infra shooting was miss. (alignment problems, and camera infra sensor overload due to the brightness of the missile engine against the night sky leading to target loss)

Weather was generally bad during OAF.
Posted By: piston79

Re: Two sided coin... - 06/14/14 01:00 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: piston79
1. Does this infrared was mounted on 27.03.2014
2. Why not used in other cases (bad weather?).
3. Now about the other UNV, does they use it more?


First infra shooting was the 6th.
Both infra shooting was miss. (alignment problems, and camera infra sensor overload due to the brightness of the missile engine against the night sky leading to target loss)

Weather was generally bad during OAF.


Why not used earlier?
Also no answer of Q1...
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: Two sided coin... - 06/14/14 03:08 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: piston79
1. Does this infrared was mounted on 27.03.2014
2. Why not used in other cases (bad weather?).
3. Now about the other UNV, does they use it more?


First infra shooting was the 6th.
Both infra shooting was miss. (alignment problems, and camera infra sensor overload due to the brightness of the missile engine against the night sky leading to target loss)

Weather was generally bad during OAF.




Why not used earlier?

Also no answer of Q1...


1, I was not there, so it is not a first hand account.
2, I had the possibility to use several different first hand accounts. (who were there and done that)
3, IR TV is not the magic solution against US-SEAD, it has several and strong drawbacks.
4, Yugoslav air defense used multiple trick to lure NATO...
.. some worked (active decoys, fake firing positions made from plywood, R60 SAM launchers), some not (IRTV).
Posted By: Lonewolf357

Re: Two sided coin... - 06/17/14 08:18 AM

Hello friends.

I have question regarding the circumstances of downing of Vega-31. It has long been said that on that night only the Stealth aircraft flew over Serbia, no SEAD and no ECM. But the book "NATO's Air War for Kosovo A Strategic and Operational Assessment" by Rand...

http://www.rand.org/pubs/monograph_reports/MR1365.html

...in Chapter 6, page 118 claims the following:

"The second alleged procedural error entailed an EA-6B support jammer that was said to have been operating not only too far away from the F-117 (80 to 100 miles) to have been of much protective value, but also out of proper alignment with the offending threat radars, resulting in inefficient jamming."

Though this jammer would not impact the operation of SNR-125, it might had impact on operation on P-18 radar, which might explain why the F-117 was detected at such short range. Does anyone has any information if the meter-wave jamming was actually present on that occasion?

Posted By: piston79

Re: Two sided coin... - 06/18/14 05:33 PM

Originally Posted By: Lonewolf357


...in Chapter 6, page 118 claims the following:

"The second alleged procedural error entailed an EA-6B support jammer that was said to have been operating not only too far away from the F-117 (80 to 100 miles) to have been of much protective value, but also out of proper alignment with the offending threat radars, resulting in inefficient jamming."

Though this jammer would not impact the operation of SNR-125, it might had impact on operation on P-18 radar, which might explain why the F-117 was detected at such short range. Does anyone has any information if the meter-wave jamming was actually present on that occasion?



Too far and not aligned ~ not present at all...

Me, personally, never heard about jamming on interviews with the crew (but have in mind I didn't understand serbian as well...)... I think that the most trusted source from inside is the Anicic book "Smena", which our dear forummate Vympel translated for us (at least the important part:


whenpigsfly SMENA - F-177 appears....

(Note, that P-18 is really prone to jamming, and they didn't see any jamming at all, or at least doesn't mentioned, so probably the EA-6B was really "out of line"....)
Posted By: Lonewolf357

Re: Two sided coin... - 06/18/14 09:15 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: Lonewolf357


...in Chapter 6, page 118 claims the following:

"The second alleged procedural error entailed an EA-6B support jammer that was said to have been operating not only too far away from the F-117 (80 to 100 miles) to have been of much protective value, but also out of proper alignment with the offending threat radars, resulting in inefficient jamming."

Though this jammer would not impact the operation of SNR-125, it might had impact on operation on P-18 radar, which might explain why the F-117 was detected at such short range. Does anyone has any information if the meter-wave jamming was actually present on that occasion?



Too far and not aligned ~ not present at all...

Me, personally, never heard about jamming on interviews with the crew (but have in mind I didn't understand serbian as well...)... I think that the most trusted source from inside is the Anicic book "Smena", which our dear forummate Vympel translated for us (at least the important part:


whenpigsfly SMENA - F-177 appears....

(Note, that P-18 is really prone to jamming, and they didn't see any jamming at all, or at least doesn't mentioned, so probably the EA-6B was really "out of line"....)


Hello, piston79!
I asked my question because there was a real "holy war" on some Russian forums between "patriots" and "westerners" regarding the circumstances of downing of Vega-31 and some aspects of it are still unclear. The description of this event from Anicic' book was translated into Russian by one man some time ago, serving as one of the few authoritative sources of information.

One of the most hotly debated aspects is the range at which F-117 was detected by P-18 radar. Previously, all Russian experts, as well as many western ones claimed that such aircraft as F-117 cannot be made truly stealthy in the meter waveband due to the nature of wave scattering - resonant scattering occurs instead of optical. Therefore, they claimed that RCS of F-117 in meter waveband should be much, much higher than in centimeter or decimeter waveband - some even claiming the figure of 1 square meter, and therefore it could be detected by P-18 at very long range. Due to this, the fact that it was only detected at the range of 23 to 35 km, according to various sources, causes a great deal of discussions. Because if we will take a figure from Anicic' book (23 km) and compare it with the well-known performance of P-18 radar, we would find that the meter-wave RCS of F-117 is exceptionally small - comparable to that in centimeter band, if not smaller.

Some people are trying to explain this by claiming that the P-18 might not have been operating continuously - thay turned it on after some pause and instantly detected a target. Some claim that the jamming might have been present, greatly reducing the detection range. Some claim that the radar might have been in poor technical condition. Other side claims that Lockheed engineers have defied the laws of physics and managed to reduce a meter-wave RCS to an amazing degree.

This English translation by Vympel is very interesting (thank you for finding it, I somehow overlooked it back then!), as its starts a bit earlier than mentioned Russian one and includes an extremely important phrase ("There are no close targets in the air. There are plenty at long ranges, and different azimuths"). It seems that both the jamming and intermittment operation theories are unfounded. I think I really need to learn Serbian... wacky



Posted By: Hpasp

Re: Two sided coin... - 06/18/14 09:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Lonewolf357
Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: Lonewolf357


...in Chapter 6, page 118 claims the following:

"The second alleged procedural error entailed an EA-6B support jammer that was said to have been operating not only too far away from the F-117 (80 to 100 miles) to have been of much protective value, but also out of proper alignment with the offending threat radars, resulting in inefficient jamming."

Though this jammer would not impact the operation of SNR-125, it might had impact on operation on P-18 radar, which might explain why the F-117 was detected at such short range. Does anyone has any information if the meter-wave jamming was actually present on that occasion?



Too far and not aligned ~ not present at all...

Me, personally, never heard about jamming on interviews with the crew (but have in mind I didn't understand serbian as well...)... I think that the most trusted source from inside is the Anicic book "Smena", which our dear forummate Vympel translated for us (at least the important part:


whenpigsfly SMENA - F-177 appears....

(Note, that P-18 is really prone to jamming, and they didn't see any jamming at all, or at least doesn't mentioned, so probably the EA-6B was really "out of line"....)


Hello, piston79!
I asked my question because there was a real "holy war" on some Russian forums between "patriots" and "westerners" regarding the circumstances of downing of Vega-31 and some aspects of it are still unclear. The description of this event from Anicic' book was translated into Russian by one man some time ago, serving as one of the few authoritative sources of information.

One of the most hotly debated aspects is the range at which F-117 was detected by P-18 radar. Previously, all Russian experts, as well as many western ones claimed that such aircraft as F-117 cannot be made truly stealthy in the meter waveband due to the nature of wave scattering - resonant scattering occurs instead of optical. Therefore, they claimed that RCS of F-117 in meter waveband should be much, much higher than in centimeter or decimeter waveband - some even claiming the figure of 1 square meter, and therefore it could be detected by P-18 at very long range. Due to this, the fact that it was only detected at the range of 23 to 35 km, according to various sources, causes a great deal of discussions. Because if we will take a figure from Anicic' book (23 km) and compare it with the well-known performance of P-18 radar, we would find that the meter-wave RCS of F-117 is exceptionally small - comparable to that in centimeter band, if not smaller.


Ehhh...

Russians are seriously underestimating the Stealth capability of the West.

The RM-217 Zvezda simulating F-117A is observable over 60km in Ashuluk, while the P-18 tuned to the its peak performance was able to find the real F-117A under 30km.

This problem is simulated exactly in SAMSIM.
ie You can kill F-117A in Ashuluk more easily than at Belgrade.
(ps: Several Hungarian SAM Firing Officers killed the Ashuluk Stealth during the '80s)
thumbsup

PS: The P-18 was working continuously (during the whole war).
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: Two sided coin... - 06/18/14 09:31 PM

Originally Posted By: Lonewolf357

This English translation by Vympel is very interesting (thank you for finding it, I somehow overlooked it back then!), as its starts a bit earlier than mentioned Russian one and includes an extremely important phrase ("There are no close targets in the air. There are plenty at long ranges, and different azimuths"). It seems that both the jamming and intermittment operation theories are unfounded. I really need to find this book (and learn Serbian)...


There were two targets in the air (no jamming was present), in the detection range of 3/250.
Both were F-117A, and depicted in the sim.
thumbsup
Posted By: Lonewolf357

Re: Two sided coin... - 06/18/14 09:57 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp

Ehhh...

Russians are seriously underestimating the Stealth capability of the West.


That's to put it mildly.
Cause if we'll take a directional diagram of P-18 in elevation plane...



...we would discover that even if F-117 was in the noticeable gap at 16 degrees (distance of 23-25 km and altitude of 6-7 km give us an area between 13 and 17 degrees), but to get there it had to cross the lower 'lobe' with peak at 14 degrees undetected, and was detected 23-25 km away, its meter-wave RCS has to be no more than 0,002 square meters!

P. S.: Even if we assume that it was actually detected by the noticeable lobe at 12-14 degrees, this means that it had to avoid detection by the main lobe between 5 and 9 degrees. An object with RCS of 0,002 m^2 would have been detected between 40 and 50 km by the main lobe, which probably means that actual RCS is even smaller.
Posted By: piston79

Re: Two sided coin... - 06/20/14 08:30 PM

Dear Lonewolf, maybe you must scroll down this one too:

Me - really BAD on math....
Posted By: Lonewolf357

Re: Two sided coin... - 06/20/14 10:46 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Dear Lonewolf, maybe you must scroll down this one too:

Me - really BAD on math....


Hello, piston79!
I'm really bad on math either, so I once made myself a simple .xls spreadsheet to make this kind of calculations (detection range by RCS difference). Here it is:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/6vlacpdf2dqjiv9/Range+calc+by+RCS+difference.xls




Posted By: piston79

Re: Two sided coin... - 06/21/14 06:27 AM

Thanks!

Did you scroll down the topic from my "BAD on MATH" post? I think you find it interesting... There is something-we do not consider wavelength differences, sometimes it does matter a lot:


Posted By: Hpasp

Re: Two sided coin... - 06/21/14 08:10 AM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Thanks!

Did you scroll down the topic from my "BAD on MATH" post? I think you found it interesting... There is something-we do not consider wavelength differences, sometimes it does matter a lot:




This table is very good, as it shows exactly the Soviet threat frequencies...
biggrin

16GHz - Shilka
8.4GHz - Neva
2.3GHz - Dvina
175MHz - P14/18

The 1sqm RCS at 175MHz for the Lockheed design should be a typo.
(it would mean ~170km detection range with the P18, against the F-117A)
Posted By: Lonewolf357

Re: Two sided coin... - 06/21/14 12:31 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Thanks!

Did you scroll down the topic from my "BAD on MATH" post? I think you found it interesting... There is something-we do not consider wavelength differences, sometimes it does matter a lot:




Yes, I did... Approximately the same figures as mine, which is not surprising...

The data from this picture, I believe, was first published by a guy named "Flateric", a very serious insider from Russian aerospace industry. That data, however, appears to be on the Have Blue or very early Senior Trend prototype, because it only competed with Northrop design at that phase. I guess the Soviet intelligence grabbed the 1 m^2 number from the same source and that's how it went into all the books. They, however, seem to totally disregard the fact that Northrop model already had VHF RCS two orders of magnitude smaller, which meant that Lockheed model could also be brought to the same level of VHF stealthiness. And it appears that it was.
Posted By: piston79

Re: Two sided coin... - 10/31/14 09:33 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp


There were two targets in the air (no jamming was present), in the detection range of 3/250.
Both were F-117A, and depicted in the sim.
thumbsup


I cannot understand why we not discussed it earlier, but I never-ever found or read about two targets, nevertheless they were F-117.... screwy

Here the Anicic's book:

SMENA - F-177 appears....
Posted By: piston79

Re: Allied Force B-2A Raid on Belgrade - 10/31/14 09:54 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp


The Video8 tape of the F-16CG (serial: 88-0550) shot down by 3/250rd PVO (third SAMSIM mission) was salvaged by the Serbian military...
... here is how DEAD work (and sometime it fails...) from the Night Falcon view.


Internal clock of the F-16CG Night Falcon is used:

00:04:00 "hammer2 you got steerpoint 41, I'm sorry hammer3 you got it"
CRACK3 F-16CJ HTS pod located 3/250rdPVO and sent its coordinates to HAMMER3 F-16CG as "Steerpoint-42".

00:04:47 "crack3 magnum 6 golf 100"
HARM shot against 3/250 rd PVO from CRACK3 F-16CJ

after the HARM missed, 3rdPVO starts their real battle...

00:04:58 "hammer status" - "hammer21 left to steer 6" - "crack73 AAA" - "hammer2 hammer3 AAA back in your position"
3/250rdPVO illuminated the F-16CG for a short time, while the AAA defending the "Veliki Radinici" reserve AFB distracted the pilots.

00:05:30 "hammer status" - "hammer1 is going to target that (AAA) underneath you"

00:05:45 "2 supported"
3/250rdPVO started continuous target tracking.

00:06:00 "we're attacking AAA 15 west of bull"

00:06:17 V-601PD missiles are launched by 3/250rdPVO

00:06:24 "mud3 north - visual"
one Viper pilot seen the SA-3 missiles

00:06:36 "mud3 hit" - CAUTION!!! - "mud three just hit again" - "hammer1 defending" - "mud3 just take a hit"

ON Air Time total: 51s
00:05:45-00:06:17; 32s target tracking
00:06:17-00:06:36; 19s missile flight till kill




Posted By: Hpasp

Re: Allied Force B-2A Raid on Belgrade - 11/01/14 07:26 AM





Holloman commander recalls being shot down in Serbia

The surface-to-air missile that hit the belly of Lt. Col David Goldfein's F-16 in May 1999 came from an unexpected source.

The SAM launch sites had proved to be a constant threat in Serbia, disappearing and reappearing. This one appeared right under the squadron's route as it flew into Belgrade, Serbia, on a night mission to destroy enemy air defenses. The missile destroyed Goldfein's engine.

"I became a very expensive glider pretty quick," said the 47-year-old Goldfein, now a brigadier general in command of Holloman Air Force Base, who recounted the incident last week. He saw the flak clouds from the anti-aircraft fire that was trying to zero in on his damaged plane.

He felt a stinging sensation on his hand and he looked down to find blood welling from a minor shrapnel injury, said Goldfein, who then commanded the 555th Fighter Squadron and led the first of many missions of Operation Allied Force over Serbia.

"That's when your training kicks in," said Goldfein, one of two pilots shot down in the operation. "It was a full-moon night. You don't want to be highlighted (in the sky) too long."

He waited to eject so he would have just enough time for his parachute to deploy while spending as little time as possible as a floating target. The ejection mechanism worked flawlessly.

After landing in a "perfectly plowed field," he rolled and popped off his parachute. Helmet still on, he grabbed his things and headed for a ravine. The ravine sloped down at a steeper angle than he had expected from his hasty survey, and he tripped and fell face first.

"My stuff was like a raft in front," he said. "I was riding it like Indiana Jones down to the bottom."

He collected himself and then made radio contact with the fighters still circling above.

"My first call was answered by my buds who were with me," Goldfein said. "There wasn't a minute I didn't hear jets overhead, and that was very comforting. There was absolutely no question in my mind I was getting out that night."

As his training had taught him, he dumped anything shiny that would reveal his location and traveled along the edge of the plowed field. If the field had land mines, he thought, the farmers would already have dug them up.

The countryside looked a lot like Indiana or Ohio farmland, he said. "There were lots of dogs and roosters up and awake and sounding off at 2 a.m.," he added.

After walking about two miles, he found a relatively remote cleared area.

"I had to find a good spot to stay hidden and coordinate the rescue," Goldfein said. "It was just, 'Don't screw it up; don't get in the way.' "

He once again communicated his position, and then, from his hiding spot, heard a rustling sound and looked in the direction of the noise.

"Whatever it was, it reared up on its hind legs ... I saw beady eyes," he said. "I say it was a Serbian tiger, but my buds said it was probably a field mouse."

He ran for a distance, which turned out to be a blessing because he found a better landing spot. When the rescue helicopter arrived, it brought enemy fire with it. Within seconds of its arrival, Goldfein was in the helicopter. A later inspection revealed five bullet holes in the fuselage.

"We never know when some young airman is going to risk everything to come pull us out," Goldfein said. "You become extremely humble. They get a bottle of scotch from me every year -- a single-malt, good quality."

Goldfein said the unit saves the last of the bottle and, when he is able to bring the new bottle in person, they drink it together. Even though the airmen who participated in his rescue have rotated out of the squadron, he said, "it's the legacy of the unit."

But, he added, "I keep in touch with many of the airmen on that rescue."

Goldfein said he wanted to fly immediately afterward, but his commanders told him to wait a day. Although he flew the next day, he points out that pilots in Vietnam often flew the same day they were rescued and they didn't receive a hero's welcome when they returned home.

Nonetheless, Goldfein could rightfully consider the incident a day at the office.

"My dad is a career fighter pilot in the Air Force century series fighters," Goldfein said. "I've really been in the Air Force my whole life."

His older brother, a two-star general, is vice director of the Joint Staff at the Pentagon, and his younger brother flies F-16s at Hill Air Force Base in Utah.

Goldfein also deployed to Abu Dhabi for Operations Desert Shield and Desert Storm and to the Vicenza Combined Air Operations Center for Operation Deliberate Force. He has more than 3,900 flying hours in the T-37, T-38 and F-16C/D.

Published on January 26, 2007 in the El Paso Times.
Used with permission from the El Paso Times.
Posted By: piston79

Re: Allied Force B-2A Raid on Belgrade - 11/01/14 05:48 PM

If I got it right, this particular element was detected by P-18 on 25 km..... Pretty low for a non-STEALTH machine on 6 km altitude....



By the way, how about that thing... ?

Originally Posted By: Hpasp


There were two targets in the air (no jamming was present), in the detection range of 3/250.
Both were F-117A, and depicted in the sim.
thumbsup


Quote:
I cannot understand why we not discussed it earlier, but I never-ever found or read about two targets, nevertheless they were F-117.... screwy

Here the Anicic's book:

SMENA - F-177 appears....
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: Two sided coin... - 11/01/14 07:17 PM

Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: Hpasp


There were two targets in the air (no jamming was present), in the detection range of 3/250.
Both were F-117A, and depicted in the sim.
thumbsup


I cannot understand why we not discussed it earlier, but I never-ever found or read about two targets, nevertheless they were F-117.... screwy

Here the Anicic's book:

SMENA - F-177 appears....


Did you checked the 3DAAR?
Posted By: piston79

Re: Two sided coin... - 11/01/14 07:35 PM

Originally Posted By: Hpasp


Did you checked the 3DAAR?


I am talking about reality, as it is historical scenario and it is on the SIM, but as I told, nor in "Smena" book, nor in any media interview with Col. Dani I find info about two F-117A at the same time in this particular night...
Posted By: piston79

Re: Two sided coin... - 03/06/16 03:35 PM

Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: Two sided coin... - 11/26/16 10:33 PM

Some details from czech forum about possible B-2 downing in 1999 by 3. rd from 250. rbr (from Czechoslovak magazine from 2010, in Slovak) HERE .


In short:

On 20th May 1999 3. rd (this time Djordje Anicic was in command) at location BECMEN-2. Shortly after midnight they locked target (200m/s velocity, 180 degress azimuth, 16km distance, 4,5km parameter, 7km height).
At 0:11 two missiles (5V27D) were launched. Both of them hit the target, at that moment 13km far above Obrenovac town.
After hit the target turned left, flew over Dec town in the direction of highway between Belgrade and Zagreb.
At 0:23 the target crashed at Spacvanske sume near Zupanja town about 15km deep in Croatia.
Crash information comes from secondary sources, because 3. rd immediately after the hit switched high voltage off.

Immediately after the incident air traffic increased significantly and 3. rd was in BR until 1:30.

The target should be a B-2A and this assumption is supported by the fact, that many trucks came from Bosnia to the crash site and the site was completely closed for two months.
Posted By: piston79

Re: Two sided coin... - 11/27/16 08:37 PM

7 km seems too low for the B-2..
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: Two sided coin... - 11/27/16 09:17 PM

This is exactly what I was thinking about while reading that article. But unfortunately I have no more information, only this article and the well known symbol on the cabin door :-(
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: Two sided coin... - 11/27/16 09:20 PM

By the way, when there is no wreckage or parts available, I think we will never know for sure until US declassifies it (in case it was really a B-2).
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: Two sided coin... - 11/28/16 03:31 PM

And I forgot to mention one thing - the very last mission of B-2 in Serbia was conducted on 21st May 1999 - the next day after the downing.
Posted By: PN79

Re: Two sided coin... - 11/28/16 09:24 PM

My thought:
- Do we know what serbian "secondary sources" has said that it was B-2? Because clearly it was not the S-125 operators despite that picture on the cabin.
- Do we know list of B-2 flights through war? How often they flew? Was it each day and with ending on 21st May or they flew like once a month or similar?
- Which SAM battery and when has damaged the second F-117? The second damaged F-117 is confirmed by US sources - when and how it happened?
- What was the air picture that day (20th May) when shooting occurs - other aircrafts, jamming?

- And at what range the P-18 radar operator has seen the target for the first time on 20th May? It was mentioned with the first F-117 case but not in this case.
Posted By: piston79

Re: Two sided coin... - 12/06/16 08:43 PM

Originally Posted By: PN79
My thought:
- Do we know what serbian "secondary sources" has said that it was B-2? Because clearly it was not the S-125 operators despite that picture on the cabin.
- Do we know list of B-2 flights through war? How often they flew? Was it each day and with ending on 21st May or they flew like once a month or similar?
- Which SAM battery and when has damaged the second F-117? The second damaged F-117 is confirmed by US sources - when and how it happened?
- What was the air picture that day (20th May) when shooting occurs - other aircrafts, jamming?

- And at what range the P-18 radar operator has seen the target for the first time on 20th May? It was mentioned with the first F-117 case but not in this case.


1. I know Anicic said so on TV... I guess this guy was really mad about Dani's promotion etc. and just goes crazy a bit...
2. Guess it is really secret...
3. April 30 An F-117A of the 49th FW was damaged during strike mission by a nearby explosion of an SA-3 SAM, "...causing loss of part of the tail section, but the aircraft was able to return safely to Spangdahlem air base, Germany." (source: Air Forces Monthly, July 1999, p. 75) (credits to Hpasp!)
4.Must check in Anicic book...
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: Two sided coin... - 12/07/16 02:09 PM

49 sorties launched from Whiteman AFB, 45 dropped

See slide 3
http://www.northropgrumman.com/AboutUs/A...-and-Beyond.pdf
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: Two sided coin... - 12/07/16 02:37 PM

Excerpts from Osprey - Combat Aircraft 064 - B2A Spirit - Units in combat

During OAF, a total of seven operational B-2As were available to the 509th BW on the ramp at Whiteman AFB. Six of these aircraft were assigned to combat, with a single jet kept as an operational reserve.

During OAF. the B-2A would be the only platform to deliver the new GBU-31 JDAM.
At the start of the campaign, there were around 600 JDAM in US stocks the only country to use the weapon.

The Spirit finally went into battle in the early hours of 24 March 1999 two years after the aircraft had achieved Initial Operating Capability. Two B-2As, each loaded with 16 GAMs launched from Whiteman and headed for the Balkans. Their attacks followed air and sea launched missiles fired earlier - they were the first manned aircraft to fly over their targets.

Interestingly, during the operations against Serbia, the B-2As as a general rule, did not operate with other assets as part of a strike package, but instead performed their missions either as singletons or in pairs outside of the NATO command.

It is important to note that on occasions, the B-2As in-theatre did take advantage of support from electronic warfare aircraft such as the US Marine Corps’ Italy-based EA-6B Prowlers. Those close to the B-2A community insist that this was done nor because the jet's low observable characteristics were insufficient, bur because 509th BW mission planners wanted to give their crews as much protection as they possibly could.

So successful was the GAM/Spirit that by 1 April, the USAF had used up 224 of the weapons - more than one-third of its total stock. This illustrates that up to this point in the B-2As had flown 14 individual aircraft sorties, averaging at least one B-2A single-ship sonic per day.

Between 5 and 12 April, the aircraft expended a further 162 GAMs, and on these occasions the B-2s were mostly performing dual-ship missions.

A total of 51 B-2A pilots flew at least a single combat mission, some flew two and a small number flew three.

Posted By: Hpasp

Re: Two sided coin... - 12/07/16 02:57 PM

Interesting awards...

CULBERTSON, CARY N.
Synopsis:
The President of the United States takes pleasure in presenting the Silver Star Medal to Cary N. Culbertson, Captain, U.S. Air Force, for conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in connection with military operations against an opposing armed force while serving as Pilot of an F-16 Fighter Plane in action, near Belgrade, Yugoslavia, on 14 April 1999. On that date, Captain Culbertson was leading a flight of F-16CJs that was providing suppression of enemy air defenses for B-2 bombers on a strike mission near Belgrade when Serbian forces fired three SA-3s at the fighter planes. Captain Culbertson turned his F-16 toward the rising missiles and attacked the SA-3 site with a high-speed antiradiation missile. The enemy then launched two more SA- 3s, this time directly targeting Captain Culbertson's aircraft. Although he would have been justified to discontinue his attack and defend against the incoming missiles, Captain Culbertson, with total disregard for his own personal safety and with the lives of his flight members foremost in his mind, continued his attack. Firing a HARM missile he destroyed the enemy radar dish, and then evaded the SA-3s. By his gallantry and devotion to duty, Captain Culbertson has reflected great credit upon himself and the United States Air Force.
http://valor.militarytimes.com/recipient.php?recipientid=46475

Paul W. Tibbets IV
The President of the United States takes great pleasure in presenting Captain Paul W. Tibbets IV the Distinguished Flying Cross for distinguishing himself by extraordinary achievement while participating in aerial flight as a B-2 Mission Commander, at or near Yugoslavia, on 8 April 1999. On that date, Captain Tibbets made aviation history by leading the world's first B-2 combat sortie without package support during Operation ALLIED FORCE. He displayed exceptional courage, skill, and endurance while flying a 30-hour combat mission, penetrating an advanced integrated air defense system that included an impressive array of ground threats, with no suppression/destruction of enemy air defense or offensive counter-air support available. Using his expert knowledge, Captain Tibbets resolved a system anomaly, which would have inhibited release, within minutes of striking his targets. Employing the new Joint Direct Attack Munition, Captain Tibbets successfully targeted 16 separate impact points and destroyed critical military production facilities including the Smederevo Petroleum Product Storage near Belgrade, a radio relay facility, and an arms production plant in Kragujevac. The professional competence, aerial skill, and devotion to duty displayed by Captain Tibbets reflect great credit upon himself and the United States Air Force.
http://www.liberty1st.org/honorroll/citation_detail.asp?ID=3010
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: Two sided coin... - 12/07/16 08:28 PM

7 B-2As at Block-30 level in 1999 (thus could be part of OAF):

AV-2 82-1067 Spirit of Arizona
AV-3 82-1068 Spirit of New York
AV-5 82-1070 Spirit of Ohio
AV-6 82-1071 Spirit of Mississippi
AV-8 88-0329 Spirit of Missouri
AV-20 93-1087 Spirit of Pennsylvania
AV-21 93-1088 Spirit of Louisiana
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: Two sided coin... - 12/08/16 04:00 AM

7 km seems too low for the B-2..

Fully agree. 7km is way too low.

The attackers of Yugoslavia was separated into two packages. The North Package attacked Belgrade, and Novi Sad region with stealth bombers only, while the South Package attacked Kosovo and Nis region with ALU (non stealth) bombers.


Austrian radar plots of the NATO armada flying through Slovenia, Hungary and the Adriatic sea.

The North Package attacking Belgrade usually consisted 2 EA-6Bs (ECM), 2 pairs of F-15Cs (CAP), 2 pairs of F-16CJs (SEAD), some F-117A, and 1~2 B-2A (flown independently from the package) but using similar TOT as the package.

To avoid mid-air collisions over enemy territory, each mission type of the north package were flown in its own dedicated altitude band, as the CAP and SEAD planes could not see the bombers on their radars, while the stealth bombers had no air-to-air radar and operated under strict radio silence.

Typical North Package:

4 F-15C
entering Yugoslav airspace from Hungary 2min before the CJ’s
2x2ship CAP, separated by 25 miles (east - west), north of Belgrade, out of SAM rings
Wingmen 5 miles trail
Mid-high 30’s alt
6xAIM-120 or 4xAIM-120 + 2xAIM-7MH
2xAIM-9M
3xFuel tank

4 F-16CJ
entering Yugoslav airspace from Hungary
20’s alt
2xHARM
2xAIM120A
2xAIM-9M
2xFuel Tank
AN/ASQ-213 Harm Targeting System (HTS) pod
AN/ALQ-184 ECM pod
4xAN/ALE-50 Towed Decoy

2 EA-6B
circling over Hungary
ECM

10 F-117A
entering Yugoslav airspace from Hungary, flying down south above the Yugoslav-Romanian or Yugoslav-Croatian border, than spider routes towards their targets
below CJ’s mainly above 15kft
2xLGB

2 B-2A
flying independently from the packages, from south to north all throughout the whole country
way above everyone
16xJDAMS

Cpt Michael "Dozer" Shower about the first night (F15C pilot):
"We were in mid- to high 30s, and the CJs in the 20s. The F117s were below them, and the B-2s came through WAY above everyone. This gave us a concern, having JDAMs coming down through us, but it was big-sky-theory in such a tight airspace. We were really stuck; we didn't know where they would be, we had no way to see or avoid them, and we had to stay close to MiG bases."

He had a close encounter unbeknownst to him with an F-117A, when he descended below his altitude band during a dogfight with a MiG-29.


Capt Mike Shower of the 493FS shoots down a MiG-29 over the outskirts of Belgrade in a night-time interception witnessed by an F-117
Posted By: PN79

Re: Two sided coin... - 12/08/16 09:59 PM

Very interesting information! Thank you.
Posted By: piston79

Re: Two sided coin... - 12/10/16 06:26 AM

Originally Posted By: PN79
My thought:
- Do we know what serbian "secondary sources" has said that it was B-2? Because clearly it was not the S-125 operators despite that picture on the cabin.
- Do we know list of B-2 flights through war? How often they flew? Was it each day and with ending on 21st May or they flew like once a month or similar?
- Which SAM battery and when has damaged the second F-117? The second damaged F-117 is confirmed by US sources - when and how it happened?
- What was the air picture that day (20th May) when shooting occurs - other aircrafts, jamming?

- And at what range the P-18 radar operator has seen the target for the first time on 20th May? It was mentioned with the first F-117 case but not in this case.



Posted By: Hpasp

Re: Allied Force B-2A Raid on Belgrade - 05/27/17 10:43 AM

All OAF dogfights in one pdf...

www.mediafire.com/file/v7eb98xxh39583u/OAF_Dogfight_Debriefs.pdf
Posted By: piston79

Re: Allied Force B-2A Raid on Belgrade - 05/27/17 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by Hpasp


Now start adding the other side stories...

https://vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=110337

Also have a P.Mm from me on another topic!
Posted By: piston79

Re: Allied Force B-2A Raid on Belgrade - 01/23/18 08:21 PM

[Linked Image]


Posted By: Hpasp

Re: Allied Force B-2A Raid on Belgrade - 01/29/18 10:09 AM

Good map!
thumbsup
I will add firings to it.
HARM scattering is especially interesting.
Posted By: piston79

Re: Allied Force B-2A Raid on Belgrade - 01/29/18 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by Hpasp
Good map!
thumbsup
I will add firings to it.
HARM scattering is especially interesting.



Firings are there.... (at least succesful ones...)

Here zoomable picture..

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d4/%D0%9A%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%82%D0%B0_%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B3_%D0%BF%D1%83%D1%82%D0%B0_3_%D1%80%D0%B4_%D0%9F%D0%92%D0%9E.jpg
Posted By: Hpasp

Re: Allied Force B-2A Raid on Belgrade - 02/16/18 05:00 PM

Few days ago, Colonel Tiosav Jankovich was appointed as a commander of the 250th SAM Brigade.
19 years ago, he was a young beginner at the 3rd SAM battalion led by Zoltán Dani and participated in the shooting down of the current US Air Force Chief of Staff David Goldfein's F-16CG.
Congratulation!
thumbsup
[Linked Image]
Posted By: piston79

Re: Allied Force B-2A Raid on Belgrade - 01/26/19 05:35 PM

Some info

Attached picture BojkoDotlich.JPG
Attached picture zoltan dani.jpg
Posted By: piston79

Re: Allied Force B-2A Raid on Belgrade - 01/29/19 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by Hpasp
Few days ago, Colonel Tiosav Jankovich was appointed as a commander of the 250th SAM Brigade.
19 years ago, he was a young beginner at the 3rd SAM battalion led by Zoltán Dani and participated in the shooting down of the current US Air Force Chief of Staff David Goldfein's F-16CG.
Congratulation!
thumbsup
[Linked Image]



Colonel Tiosav Jankovic (now Commander of the 250th Missile Brigade, PVO VS), remembered the shooting of Goldfein's F-16CG:

Quote
- I'm rotating the antenna to the right (clockwise). At the moment when the first target return began to disappear from the screen, somewhat closer, to the right of the vertical marker, a new, smaller one appeared, like as MiG-29 one. I realized that both reflections are at the same course and height, and that the other is closer and I think that the first one is the decoy (AN/ALE-50). I quickly bring the second return into the cross-section of the marker and submit it to tracking. I'm looking at the instruments, the speed is about 250 m /s, Parameter - about 4 km. I was not even finished reporting, when Dotlic shouts "Launch". Pressing PUSK. The distance to the target was 14 to 15 km. The first one takes off, then second one, the first one is in a guidance .... The missile comes close to the target, and explodes at a distance of about 11 km. A large explosion engulfed the target. The Azimuth was is 320 degrees .... According to our estimation, the hit was in the wider area of ​​Brestac village, the plane then continued its flight in the direction of Batajnica. They then inform us the plane turned to Tuzla, losing height. Fearing, however, that he did not cross the border, we are waiting for news with awe. After a while, they reported that the F-16CG plane crashed on Cer...


source
Posted By: piston79

Re: Allied Force B-2A Raid on Belgrade - 04/08/19 05:09 PM

Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: Allied Force B-2A Raid on Belgrade - 04/12/19 09:25 PM

Originally Posted by piston79

Nice! thumbsup
Posted By: piston79

Re: Allied Force B-2A Raid on Belgrade - 04/16/19 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by Alien_MasterMynd
Originally Posted by piston79

Nice! thumbsup



Did you see SA-2 in the forest?
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: Allied Force B-2A Raid on Belgrade - 04/20/19 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by piston79
Originally Posted by Alien_MasterMynd
Originally Posted by piston79

Nice! thumbsup



Did you see SA-2 in the forest?

Yes, it was a holy #%&*$# moment, would like to find one ;-)
Posted By: piston79

Re: Allied Force B-2A Raid on Belgrade - 11/16/19 11:15 PM

Originally Posted by Hpasp
http://www.airforce-magazine.com/MagazineArchive/Pages/2000/June%202000/0600silver.aspx

On April 14, Capt. Cary N. Culbertson was leading a flight of F-16CJs that was providing suppression of enemy air defenses for B-2 bombers on a strike mission near Belgrade. The Serbs fired three SA-3s-presumably at the F-16s and not at the stealthy and much higher B-2s. Culbertson turned his F-16 toward the rising missiles and attacked the SA-3 site with a High-speed Anti-Radiation Missile. Then the Serbs launched two more SA-3s, this time directly at Culbertson's jet. "At this point," says Culbertson's Silver Star citation, "Captain Culbertson would have been justified to discontinue his attack and defend against the incoming missiles, but instead, with total disregard for his own personal safety and [with] the lives of his flight members foremost in his mind, he continued his attack." He fired another HARM, which took out the SAM radar. Then he evaded the SA-3s. The Serbs tried one more time from a different site, firing another salvo of SA-3s-and drawing a HARM from Culbertson's wingman.

That night, the 250/4rd PVO was operating from the south of Dolovo town.
They launched 2 missiles Betha=90, D=8, when a HARM was launched against from their back, Betha=30.
They immediately launched 2 new missiles against the new target at Betha=30, D=13.

The HARM detonation sprayed fragments at the UNK and the UNV vans.
The battery suffered two injuries.

[Linked Image]

On Google Earth, you can still find the place where this battle was fought.
[Linked Image]


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Capt. Sonny P. Blinkinsop also took unusual risks to protect his fellow pilots from Serb missiles. While he led a group of F-16CJs against some SAM sites near Obrva, Yugoslavia, on May 2, the Serbs launched several SA-3s at the formation. As one of the F-16s turned to fire a HARM at the SAM battery, another salvo of SA-3s was launched. Blinkinsop turned his aircraft toward the launch site-and into the path of the oncoming missiles-to fire a HARM at the battery. That act silenced the site. Then as the F-16s were reforming, the Serbs launched two more SA-3s at a second wave of NATO strike aircraft entering the area. Blinkinsop fired his last HARM at that SAM battery, shutting it down and letting the strikers escape safely. Blinkinsop's disregard for his own safety during this mission earned him the Silver Star.

[Linked Image]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The final Silver Star recipient may have done as much to save a colleague as any of the rescue forces. On June 7, Maj. William L. Thomas Jr. was flying with a group of F-16s near Batajnica airfield, near Belgrade, when he located four Serbian MiG-29s parked below. He and his wingman each destroyed one of the jets on a first pass over the airfield. On a second pass Thomas destroyed a third MiG. But the Serbs, meanwhile, had fired two SA-3s, which forced Thomas's wingman into evasive maneuvers. The plume from one of the missiles temporarily blinded the wingman, who went into a low-altitude dive in the midst of a AAA field. Thomas flew into the AAA zone and dispensed flares, so the artillery barrages would target him instead of his wingman. It worked. Both pilots escaped.

It was Dani Zoltan's 250/3rd PVO last shooting (7th) of the war.
They were located north of Dec, and launched 2 missiles at 23:54 (Beta=0, D=15km), using TV-RL guidance.
Both missiles were missed.

[Linked Image]


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The other two Silver Star situation of the OAF are exist in the SAMSIM.
biggrin




450 brigade had 19 engagements:

1 rd-1
2 rd-3
3 rd-7
4 rd-8

450 brigade lost only one battery, 250 lost all but 3 and 8.... 3/250 is the only battery never put out of action by NATO
Via Kubovac
Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

Re: Allied Force B-2A Raid on Belgrade - 12/24/19 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by piston79
Originally Posted by Hpasp
http://www.airforce-magazine.com/MagazineArchive/Pages/2000/June%202000/0600silver.aspx

On April 14, Capt. Cary N. Culbertson was leading a flight of F-16CJs that was providing suppression of enemy air defenses for B-2 bombers on a strike mission near Belgrade. The Serbs fired three SA-3s-presumably at the F-16s and not at the stealthy and much higher B-2s. Culbertson turned his F-16 toward the rising missiles and attacked the SA-3 site with a High-speed Anti-Radiation Missile. Then the Serbs launched two more SA-3s, this time directly at Culbertson's jet. "At this point," says Culbertson's Silver Star citation, "Captain Culbertson would have been justified to discontinue his attack and defend against the incoming missiles, but instead, with total disregard for his own personal safety and [with] the lives of his flight members foremost in his mind, he continued his attack." He fired another HARM, which took out the SAM radar. Then he evaded the SA-3s. The Serbs tried one more time from a different site, firing another salvo of SA-3s-and drawing a HARM from Culbertson's wingman.

That night, the 250/4rd PVO was operating from the south of Dolovo town.
They launched 2 missiles Betha=90, D=8, when a HARM was launched against from their back, Betha=30.
They immediately launched 2 new missiles against the new target at Betha=30, D=13.

The HARM detonation sprayed fragments at the UNK and the UNV vans.
The battery suffered two injuries.

[Linked Image]

On Google Earth, you can still find the place where this battle was fought.
[Linked Image]


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Capt. Sonny P. Blinkinsop also took unusual risks to protect his fellow pilots from Serb missiles. While he led a group of F-16CJs against some SAM sites near Obrva, Yugoslavia, on May 2, the Serbs launched several SA-3s at the formation. As one of the F-16s turned to fire a HARM at the SAM battery, another salvo of SA-3s was launched. Blinkinsop turned his aircraft toward the launch site-and into the path of the oncoming missiles-to fire a HARM at the battery. That act silenced the site. Then as the F-16s were reforming, the Serbs launched two more SA-3s at a second wave of NATO strike aircraft entering the area. Blinkinsop fired his last HARM at that SAM battery, shutting it down and letting the strikers escape safely. Blinkinsop's disregard for his own safety during this mission earned him the Silver Star.

[Linked Image]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The final Silver Star recipient may have done as much to save a colleague as any of the rescue forces. On June 7, Maj. William L. Thomas Jr. was flying with a group of F-16s near Batajnica airfield, near Belgrade, when he located four Serbian MiG-29s parked below. He and his wingman each destroyed one of the jets on a first pass over the airfield. On a second pass Thomas destroyed a third MiG. But the Serbs, meanwhile, had fired two SA-3s, which forced Thomas's wingman into evasive maneuvers. The plume from one of the missiles temporarily blinded the wingman, who went into a low-altitude dive in the midst of a AAA field. Thomas flew into the AAA zone and dispensed flares, so the artillery barrages would target him instead of his wingman. It worked. Both pilots escaped.

It was Dani Zoltan's 250/3rd PVO last shooting (7th) of the war.
They were located north of Dec, and launched 2 missiles at 23:54 (Beta=0, D=15km), using TV-RL guidance.
Both missiles were missed.

[Linked Image]


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The other two Silver Star situation of the OAF are exist in the SAMSIM.
biggrin




450 brigade had 19 engagements:

1 rd-1
2 rd-3
3 rd-7
4 rd-8

450 brigade lost only one battery, 250 lost all but 3 and 8.... 3/250 is the only battery never put out of action by NATO
Via Kubovac




thumbsup
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