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My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster.

Posted By: straycat

My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/07/18 09:35 PM

Here is what I think:

1. The f14 is already complete and can have an exact release date.
2. However ED wants to delay it beyond christmas so the the F14 does not get in the way of selling this retarded yak crop duster.
3. ED also wants to delay it to give the F18 more space to sell. They did a free weekend and reduced price sales, which indicates the persian gulf and f18 are not selling many copies. That is the first time ED did a free weekend so they must be desperate to sell that F18
4. What ED does not consider is that some customers won't buy the F18 because they delayed the most important thing, the ground radar and they feel like perhaps completing it in the next 1-3 years. But customers who are still angry over the #%&*$# hawk, #%&*$# mirage and #%&*$# harrier feel uneasy about buying another 80€ plane. Because razbams modules are so #%&*$# (and priced like an ED or heatblur module) so paying 80€ for anything from DCS is a risky thing, because razbam and veao and avio ruined dcs reputation as the top of the line flight sim developer.

So here is my guess, F14 will be delayed until late January. The exact date will be determined until end of november. If ED notices people not wanting to buy the F18, they will allow the F14 to start selling.

Also, once the F14 is out, the three #%&*$# developers I mentioned in 4 will be out of business. Because no one will spend 80€ for a #%&*$# razbam harrier if he can get a heatblur plane.
Posted By: Flogger23m

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/08/18 03:22 AM

Seems a bit far fetched, but certainly the F-18 and F-14 being released so close wasn't good timing. I'm not sure what is more popular. Honestly, they're both extremely popular aircraft choices. The F-14 has an awkward cult following (Top Gun maybe?) so I think those fans will scream the loudest, but many of us have more interest in the F-18. Plus there is the foreign aspect. I'm sure the F-18 will sell better to foreign customers in Canada, Australia, Finland & Spain.

As for their YAK, I don't think they care much. They got paid for it already and any civilian sales are an added bonus. Their focus and customer interest will be in the F-18 but it would've been dumb to not sell the YAK and make some extra money.
Posted By: cdelucia

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/08/18 05:54 PM

Well, if they'd FINISH the hornet I might of think purchasing it . . .
Posted By: theOden

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/08/18 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by cdelucia
Well, if they'd FINISH the hornet I might think purchasing it . . .

That's how people should view the 14 too.
As a DCS Viggen customer waiting in early access for soon to be 2 years I find the screamers at ED forums borderline stupid.
All they've seen is bling bling and a horrid 2D splash Jester GUI.

I for one have zero trust in Heatblur.
Posted By: Exorcet

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/09/18 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by straycat
Here is what I think:
They did a free weekend and reduced price sales, which indicates the persian gulf and f18 are not selling many copies. That is the first time ED did a free weekend so they must be desperate to sell that F18

What exactly is the logic behind this?
Posted By: Force10

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/09/18 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by Exorcet
Originally Posted by straycat
Here is what I think:
They did a free weekend and reduced price sales, which indicates the persian gulf and f18 are not selling many copies. That is the first time ED did a free weekend so they must be desperate to sell that F18

What exactly is the logic behind this?


While I don't agree with everything straycat said...it does seem like they are selling their newest flagship module at a reduced price a lot faster than they have in the past. Also...going through the hassle of putting together a free weekend with 48 hour limited licenses of your newest module seems a little desperate. I'm sure hardcore fans of ED will say they are doing this out of the kindness of their hearts. But from a business standpoint...you don't put something on sale if it's selling well at full price.
Posted By: GrayGhost

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/09/18 04:56 PM

I would say they are experimenting with something that they have been asked for: Demos. Why would it have to be something desperate?
Posted By: Force10

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/09/18 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by GrayGhost
I would say they are experimenting with something that they have been asked for: Demos. Why would it have to be something desperate?


I have no doubt that free demos is what has been asked for given that folks are no longer willing to take the gamble with unfinished ED products these days...so I will concede that point.

How can you spin putting your newest module on sale if it's selling well at full price? (I have faith that you will spin this in ED's favor somehow)
Posted By: Exorcet

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/09/18 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by Force10
While I don't agree with everything straycat said...it does seem like they are selling their newest flagship module at a reduced price a lot faster than they have in the past. Also...going through the hassle of putting together a free weekend with 48 hour limited licenses of your newest module seems a little desperate. I'm sure hardcore fans of ED will say they are doing this out of the kindness of their hearts. But from a business standpoint...you don't put something on sale if it's selling well at full price.


Had they not had sales in the past I might understand why people would think that way, but this is pretty much the norm for ED. Even on their forums there have been comments about modules going on sale quickly after release. They've also had requests for paid module demos as GrayGhost brought up.

What was said originally isn't out of the realm of possibility I guess, but it doesn't strike me as being the most obvious explanation. Was just curious as I've seen it bought up in a couple of threads now.
Posted By: Tirak

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/09/18 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by theOden
Originally Posted by cdelucia
Well, if they'd FINISH the hornet I might think purchasing it . . .

That's how people should view the 14 too.
As a DCS Viggen customer waiting in early access for soon to be 2 years I find the screamers at ED forums borderline stupid.
All they've seen is bling bling and a horrid 2D splash Jester GUI.

I for one have zero trust in Heatblur.


Out of curiosity, what systems are missing from the Viggen?
Posted By: Force10

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/09/18 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by Exorcet
Originally Posted by Force10
While I don't agree with everything straycat said...it does seem like they are selling their newest flagship module at a reduced price a lot faster than they have in the past. Also...going through the hassle of putting together a free weekend with 48 hour limited licenses of your newest module seems a little desperate. I'm sure hardcore fans of ED will say they are doing this out of the kindness of their hearts. But from a business standpoint...you don't put something on sale if it's selling well at full price.


Had they not had sales in the past I might understand why people would think that way, but this is pretty much the norm for ED.


No...not the "Norm" for ED to put their top tier module on sale after a few months. FC stuff and others yes...not their newest module. I think it took a couple years for the A-10 to go on sale...and that's after it hit final release stage.
Posted By: GrayGhost

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/09/18 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by Force10
I have no doubt that free demos is what has been asked for given that folks are no longer willing to take the gamble with unfinished ED products these days...so I will concede that point.


I see that you couldn't resist. The idea is quite a bit older than your rethoric.

Quote
How can you spin putting your newest module on sale if it's selling well at full price? (I have faith that you will spin this in ED's favor somehow)


I wouldn't know - with Igor's passing, running the business has passed to someone else (I don't know who) and they might not have the same ideas as Igor did. But sure, let's go with your theory, I'll have a crack at it smile

Sales are often a trick of the business - in many places you buy things that you believe are on sale - yet, the only thing that's really going on is a particular label. A vendor can use this tool to drive more traffic and make more money despite lowering the price or ... they might not even lower the price.
You might as well accuse every grocery chain out there of being desperate - fact is, none of us know how ED is really doing. What we do know is that as far as DCS is concerned, there are regular updates and frequent communication - something that was asked for by community.
Given the other explanations available, I believe some people are just wishing that ED is going down the tubes. It's just projection, and not much else. You could be right, you could be wrong, but that's a pretty strong attempt to explain things in a particular way.

I'm sorry, I considered sneaking a car analogy in there but I'm a bit short on time right now.
Posted By: Exorcet

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/09/18 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by Force10
Originally Posted by Exorcet
Originally Posted by Force10
While I don't agree with everything straycat said...it does seem like they are selling their newest flagship module at a reduced price a lot faster than they have in the past. Also...going through the hassle of putting together a free weekend with 48 hour limited licenses of your newest module seems a little desperate. I'm sure hardcore fans of ED will say they are doing this out of the kindness of their hearts. But from a business standpoint...you don't put something on sale if it's selling well at full price.


Had they not had sales in the past I might understand why people would think that way, but this is pretty much the norm for ED.


No...not the "Norm" for ED to put their top tier module on sale after a few months. FC stuff and others yes...not their newest module. I think it took a couple years for the A-10 to go on sale...and that's after it hit final release stage.

I don't really remember the sales history of the A-10, so fair point. It is a much older module though. I was going to say that ED hasn't directly released anything since then, but I remembered the WWII fighters. Belsimtek's stuff could be counted as ED maybe. I don't know if you would count those as being in the same tier, and I don't know how long it took for them to go on sale off the top of my head.

If we are limiting things to the Ka-50, A-10, and F-18 then I suppose the F-18 would be the outlier.
Posted By: Flogger23m

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/09/18 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by Force10
Originally Posted by GrayGhost
I would say they are experimenting with something that they have been asked for: Demos. Why would it have to be something desperate?


I have no doubt that free demos is what has been asked for given that folks are no longer willing to take the gamble with unfinished ED products these days...so I will concede that point.

How can you spin putting your newest module on sale if it's selling well at full price? (I have faith that you will spin this in ED's favor somehow)


Well the module did see a $20 price hike to $80 over the previous $60. I suppose they will go back to putting it on sale more frequently due to the higher overall price.

Similar to SSD pricing. The list price may be $150, but they go on sale for $130 every other month typically. Or that is how it has been in the past.
Posted By: Force10

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/09/18 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by GrayGhost
Originally Posted by Force10
I have no doubt that free demos is what has been asked for given that folks are no longer willing to take the gamble with unfinished ED products these days...so I will concede that point.


I see that you couldn't resist. The idea is quite a bit older than your rethoric.

Quote
How can you spin putting your newest module on sale if it's selling well at full price? (I have faith that you will spin this in ED's favor somehow)


I wouldn't know - with Igor's passing, running the business has passed to someone else (I don't know who) and they might not have the same ideas as Igor did. But sure, let's go with your theory, I'll have a crack at it smile

Sales are often a trick of the business - in many places you buy things that you believe are on sale - yet, the only thing that's really going on is a particular label. A vendor can use this tool to drive more traffic and make more money despite lowering the price or ... they might not even lower the price.
You might as well accuse every grocery chain out there of being desperate - fact is, none of us know how ED is really doing. What we do know is that as far as DCS is concerned, there are regular updates and frequent communication - something that was asked for by community.
Given the other explanations available, I believe some people are just wishing that ED is going down the tubes. It's just projection, and not much else. You could be right, you could be wrong, but that's a pretty strong attempt to explain things in a particular way.

I'm sorry, I considered sneaking a car analogy in there but I'm a bit short on time right now.


No worries Ghost...I get your point, and you rose to the challenge. wink

As far as wishing for ED to go down the tubes...it's really not an issue with me either way. I have given up on them being a viable source for a combat pilot simulation. Their constant...never ending, unfinished content business model is here to stay and it's not for me. With BMS, WOFF, and WOTR giving enough of that immersive combat pilot feel I don't need much else.

(Except for someone to make a full on Korean war era sim)
Posted By: theOden

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/09/18 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by Tirak
Originally Posted by theOden
Originally Posted by cdelucia
Well, if they'd FINISH the hornet I might think purchasing it . . .

That's how people should view the 14 too.
As a DCS Viggen customer waiting in early access for soon to be 2 years I find the screamers at ED forums borderline stupid.
All they've seen is bling bling and a horrid 2D splash Jester GUI.

I for one have zero trust in Heatblur.


Out of curiosity, what systems are missing from the Viggen?


From memory:

Illum bombs stuck every 2nd patch
Radio setup randomly fail starting from mission of running from ME
AI rockets (and player aim) miss by far (object target and ground point tested, sometimes they just orbit and never deploy ordnance at all, perfect move above manpad area)
SPA mode (recon) cannot track target for speed/heading (3 minute)
Anti-ship missiles are laser guided
AI never fires AShM (Rb04E but Rb15 goes off to Hindustan - prolly due to laser guided workaround).
Rb04E and Rb15 wrong definition warheads resulting in very poor effect on naval vessels
AI deploys chaff/flare despite no pods (must force 0 in ME by mission builder, I'm ok with that workaround)
AI unable to loft bomb (important Viggen profile and a must for illum)
Inbound/outbound lines for breakpoints not working
Validate flightplan before takeoff not working
High-altitude AB fails
Gunpods way off in size (No biggie, I can live with that one)
Minors such as plane bort number not implemented.

and some other points I no longer remember since I deleted all my notes when I uninstalled DCS last month.

Over time since "release" bugs come and go telling me they have no source code control worth the name.

But sure, it looks stunning - just like the 14.
Posted By: Tirak

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/10/18 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by theOden
]
Illum bombs stuck every 2nd patch
Radio setup randomly fail starting from mission of running from ME
AI rockets (and player aim) miss by far (object target and ground point tested, sometimes they just orbit and never deploy ordnance at all, perfect move above manpad area)
SPA mode (recon) cannot track target for speed/heading (3 minute)
Anti-ship missiles are laser guided
AI never fires AShM (Rb04E but Rb15 goes off to Hindustan - prolly due to laser guided workaround).
Rb04E and Rb15 wrong definition warheads resulting in very poor effect on naval vessels
AI deploys chaff/flare despite no pods (must force 0 in ME by mission builder, I'm ok with that workaround)
AI unable to loft bomb (important Viggen profile and a must for illum)
Inbound/outbound lines for breakpoints not working
Validate flightplan before takeoff not working
High-altitude AB fails
Gunpods way off in size (No biggie, I can live with that one)
Minors such as plane bort number not implemented.

and some other points I no longer remember since I deleted all my notes when I uninstalled DCS last month.

Over time since "release" bugs come and go telling me they have no source code control worth the name.

But sure, it looks stunning - just like the 14.


I've done a little bit of digging and it does appear like some of these issues, though certainly not all, have been worked on, specifically the August patch notes indicated they had fixed the SPA mode, as well as the AI being unable to use AShM properly.
https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3608658&postcount=1

I don't really follow the Viggen, as I have no interest in the aircraft, though it does seem like they do try to stamp out bugs where they can find them. If you don't mind me asking, I have a few more questions. I don't mean for these to sound hostile, I'm just trying to get more information about how Heatblur handles their released modules, since the team split off right before the MiG-21 went to #%&*$# so I don't have too much to work on from their earlier module I do own.

1. When was the last time you played the module?
2. How great an impact did incomplete/buggy features have on your enjoyment of the module?
3. Did you raise these issues with HeatBlur?
4. If so, how satisfied were you with their response, if any.
5. What sort of other important bugs do you remember and how long did it take for them to be resolved?
6. In your opinion, what is a reasonable amount of time for bugs of varying complexity to be resolved?
7. In your opinion, what is a reasonable amount of time for a module to be in Early Access?
8. Based on Heatblur's claim of having their F-14B module being mostly feature complete on early access launch, how confident are you they will be able to meet that goal?
9. Knowing what you know now, would you purchase the AJS-37 Viggen Module?
10. Knowing what you know now, would you purchase the F-14 module?

Sorry for the marketing survey sounding questions, but again, just trying to dial in on how good Heatblur is at followup. RAZBAM has proven to be pretty disastrously bad at it, VEAO goes without saying, AVIODev hasn't actually released anything of note and Polychop... well that's its own #%&*$#...
Posted By: theOden

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/10/18 02:15 PM

No worries, no hostility detected biggrin

1. Just over a month
2. show stoppers since I do singleplayer mission creation depending alot on AI flights.
3. A year ago I notified them the ARAK warheads was way off since then I've seen so many heated responses to complaints I've choosen not to raise them but let them figure it out on their own.
4. ARAK warhead issue was pretty OK in response
5. See list above
6. 3 weeks
7. 3 months
8. Zero
9. No
10. Hell no.

In all honesty, it's not all about blaming 3rd Party despite I dislike the setup (too easy to say it's the other part that needs to do something etc.) but after many hours in editor and LUA coding in notepad I've come to realize DCS will never be the combat sim I hoped for but will stay a cockpit simulator where creating 1 single module must surely be way to costly to make financial sense.

While VEAO has failed beyond anything they can recover from the other 3rd parties also seem to suffer great from ED's inability to communicate changes to the core sim with them, Heatblur/Viggen got a total smack in the face when ED changed the atmospheric simulation and considering the Viggen weapon computer use airpressure at target steerpoint suddenly the Viggen was completely off - I can only imagine what surprises VEAO been suffering while also struggling with a generally sub-par module to start with.

The modules are well worth it for those who want's to play online pvp style.
Posted By: LOF_Rugg

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/10/18 02:26 PM

What's nice about all this conversation is that it's even happening. I always look forward to GG's responses, even if sometimes I don't agree with him. In the past I've found him to be helpful and honest as he can be depending upon which boards or messenger was being used at the time. What I mean by that is this conversation never would happen on ED's boards. That being said I don't think anyone wants to see ED go away. All of the complaints I see are people wanting a more feature rich and completed sim. For those that criticize ED's business model of releasing alpha candidates, ED deserves every bit of that criticism. Since I began gaming online in 2001 the same things have been said over and over about unfinished software. I started online with the original Ghost Recon and there were several really bad issues with the game for several version numbers. UBISoft took a bunch of heat and criticism on the boards but they did listen. They had community managers that interacted with the community. Hell, we even had our own chat room (shades of Hyperlobby) for a while before UBI decided to stop continuing development. LOMAC even had it's own boards and had ED representation to answer questions, etc. Stormin' Norman was the guy. Of course, he got run off (I won't name the producer's name) and now we have SimHQ to discuss the good, bad and ugly of what's coming from ED. Frankly, I'm waiting until they get the Hornet more complete. Couple of my squaddies fly them IRL. AFAIK they're waiting too. It's ironic to me that the Tomcat will be shipped full featured while we wait for ED to finish several of their products. I'm going to pre-order the Tomcat.
Posted By: Blade_Meister

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/10/18 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by Force10



As far as wishing for ED to go down the tubes...it's really not an issue with me either way. I have given up on them being a viable source for a combat pilot simulation. Their constant...never ending, unfinished content business model is here to stay and it's not for me. With BMS, WOFF, and WOTR giving enough of that immersive combat pilot feel I don't need much else.

(Except for someone to make a full on Korean war era sim)


I feel the same way. If ED would just pick an Era, WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam or Present day and finish one so to say, map, SP missions, a few Campaigns, then I would be inclined to use DCS my regularly. As of now I have plenty of Sims to use and short of the Jet Age (Migg 29 & F14) I am only flying DCS once every Blue moon. The memory specs are also a deterrent as I have 16gbs memory and needing 32gbs to run DCS smoothly or fly online in big missions is holding me back. IMHO I can't see investing the money with the state that DCS is in now.

S!Blade<><
Posted By: LC

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/15/18 12:05 AM

Am I the only one who has had a great time with DCS World? Yeah there are some bugs, some quiet moments from the developers, but show me a perfect game and I'll have a bridge for you to buy. Even games on consoles have bugs. Pricing-wise same thing. I just enjoy it for what it is, a game. Think back 20 years ago and the thought of flying an A-10 with a fully clickable cockpit, most sensors and modes available, and great graphics was laughed at. Even in hardcore communities as this one.

Im not trying to start a debate or anything. Its kind of why I don't post in this section of SimHQ anymore with the arguing. But I have waiting excitedly for the F-14 for what? 4 years? Did it suck not knowing when or how it would be released? Yeah. But I also remember waiting for LOMAC, waiting for IL-2, EAW etc. Were they all perfect on release? No. Should DCS focus on one area and continue there? Maybe, but one thing about the flight sim community is we always want it better, more clickable, prettier, more immersive, and bigger maps than any other community. We will never be happy, and that's ok. Keeps the developers on their toes smile But lets not hope for any developer to go under. That will only make the mobile app game makers say "I told ya so."
Posted By: LC

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/15/18 12:32 AM

Sorry to go off topic....to return to the F-14 talk....

Who here is buying it? I'll preorder.

When will you attempt the first night landing on the carrier? I am not good at landing the F-15 on a runway so for me Im sure it will be a while before I attempt the night stuff.
Posted By: bisher

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/15/18 02:54 AM

Looking forward to the F 14 for sure LC. Beautiful aircraft smile

As far as the retarded yak crop duster goes, I'll pass, even with delays. I'll pass smile
Posted By: damson

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/15/18 12:12 PM

I'm guilty of preordering. But usually never do it. But for that fine looking cat I can make an exception wink
Posted By: specialksl

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/15/18 01:49 PM

@LC, I agree, these forums dedicated to DCS seem to be nothing but a #%&*$# session. I LOVE DCS and have from day one. Yes, it has some bugs but the quality far outweighs the bugs. I don't usually preorder but I did for the F18 and probably will for the F14. I would love to have the Viper in DCS but I am happy with what they have.

I for one would be proud to wear a DCS t-shirt or DCS logo hat. I am a life time customer!
Posted By: Gattsu

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/15/18 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by specialksl
@LC, I agree, these forums dedicated to DCS seem to be nothing but a #%&*$# session. I LOVE DCS and have from day one. Yes, it has some bugs but the quality far outweighs the bugs. I don't usually preorder but I did for the F18 and probably will for the F14. I would love to have the Viper in DCS but I am happy with what they have.

I for one would be proud to wear a DCS t-shirt or DCS logo hat. I am a life time customer!


I don't usually post my opinions, English is not my first language and I'm lazy...

I loved the first DCS Blackshark ten years ago, DCS was a miracle for us simmers, it blew my mind back theen.
Now I have enough time and a high end PC to return to study sims. To my surprise, DCS has not evolved a bit gameplay-wise.

They have taken several steps back: badly optimized (I want to play 100% smooth), my Blackshark 2 is terrible updated (bad cockpit lights for the autopilot and Datalink buttons. Really unacceptable for a product they are still selling) and the promised virtual warfare will never arrive. We, gamers, don't want pvp with unbalanced characters (the FC3 modules versus the full simulated). Moreover, we don't have theatres (different eras 1960s, 70s, 80s, 90s) or a dynamic campaign.

I will continue to follow DCS within SimHQ and YouTube because DCS is a beacon of hope for the sim community. But ten years has passed and it is a disappointment for the company that had the most promising future.

I don't need so many planes to study and fly, I don't want to spend so much money on unfinished products and I don't have the time for all of them.
I know Falcon BMS players that really like DCS because they need to play something else after 1000 hours in BMS. But I can't recommend DCS to anyone starting at study sims that only has time for one airplane and sim.

Goodluck guys!
Posted By: Paradaz

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/15/18 07:01 PM

^^^

Exactly my thoughts Gattsu. It's such a shame because everyone can see how much potential there is, but all this time and and it's yet to be realised.......and therefore probably never will.

In my opinion, ED missed the beat many years ago and instead of creating a good baseline in the core engine from which to launch everything else from, they are now in a vicious circle that they'll probably never get out of. Instead of looking at the long term, the base engine was completely ignored and probably through greed they turned to churning out additional modules in their haste to create the 'world'. This, along with trying to make a quick buck out of their military contracts and the bad management and burning of resources meant they had to dip into the early access funds of new modules to pay for their early errors. The situation they've been in for the last 6-8 years means that they literally have to churn out new modules now just to pay for the previous mess-up, and this means no intent to finish and polish modules, no intent to create a dynamic environment. The 'World' that they sought is just full of hi-fidelity and unfinished button pushing cockpits with very little else other than some nice screenshots. Their latest module, the F18C mirrors their practice from previous years....will it ever be 'finished'? - probably not. Do ED actually care? - probably not and no doubts they already have their eyes on the next early access module in order to pay for the development of the F18..and that module will never get finished either. The circle continues and it's such a pity.
Posted By: Frederf

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/15/18 07:58 PM

Core game has been upgraded by ED, just very slowly and not in the best order where half the fixes break other things. I have been around people that keep pestering me "when are you going to buy the ____?" And I answer, when they finish making it. It makes them mad because they already bought it and maybe if I suffered with them they could get their money's worth or something. I'm totally interested in buying the Viggen, Harrier, Hornet, whatever...when it's done and error free (not even A-10 is error free but it's small potatoes stuff). I've been slapped in the face by about 9 modules that just plain aren't made yet and may never be. I'm stupid but even my stupidity has a limit.

DCS could be really fun but ED is going to have to clear their minds and actually look at what makes a good SP and MP experience without trying to start with the conclusion first. The improvements that make for a good experience are not going to be sexy screenshot type features. They're going to be things like positional display of discovered enemy that have inexact information or squadron structures to encourage squad-based MP play or better AI GCI or AI that doesn't know your full genome because their 1960's RWR got a sniff of your radar from 150nm away, better mission planning tools or stuff like that.
Posted By: LC

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/16/18 02:31 AM

I agree with what you guys say about pushing out modules unfinished. My thoughts are looking at the people always yelling for the f-14 to be released constantly. I think sometimes the community gives them the idea that we will be ok waiting for fixes when we are always yelling we want it now no matter the costs. Again, not everyone is guilty of this but there are many.

As for most of those aircraft aren't they 3rd party developed modules? This too is something ED could tighten their rules on I agree.

The core game agreed, the ai will make some pretty gamey situations happen. I think in modern warfare it's more noticeable with the weapons but if you look at other games like IL-2 and EAW the enemy also knew where you were, but they couldn't knock you out of the sky with a missile from miles away. Hard stuff to code. Can't say I have a better idea so I can't complain.

Point I guess I'm trying to make without offending anyone or trying to sound like a jacka$$ is we SHOULD make comments, point out bugs, and complain a bit; but in the long run we should enjoy it for what it is, hope for the best, and not argue too much as a community and enjoy the hobby together.
Posted By: Haukka81

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/16/18 04:51 AM

Cropduster sucks and ED.s way to make things is bit messy and #%&*$#.



But i LOVE viggen, its very quality module.

Tomcat = instant buy. Just got it smile
Posted By: Tom_Weiss

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/16/18 11:44 AM

not a pre-order -buyer, but, I may give it a try later on, maybe some time in the future, if I have the time.
Posted By: ST0RM

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/16/18 02:26 PM

No more early access pre-orders for me. The trend toward a mid-alpha/beta product at full price is tiring. In this case, Heatblur delayed the Tomcat for over a year (guaranteed Dec 17 release via Cobra), so this better be nearly complete. I'll let the dust settle a while.

ED's Hornet E/A burned me the last time. Let the others keep repeating their mistakes. I'll make my stand here alone.
Posted By: LC

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/17/18 01:10 AM

Since I didn't buy the Hornet because I knew the F-14 was coming out someday, apart from the missing ground radar, are there any other major components missing? Flightwise how is it? Im debating getting it still just to practice carrier landings but I assume for the F-14 it will be totally different anyhow.
Posted By: xXNightEagleXx

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/17/18 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by LC
Since I didn't buy the Hornet because I knew the F-14 was coming out someday, apart from the missing ground radar, are there any other major components missing? Flightwise how is it? Im debating getting it still just to practice carrier landings but I assume for the F-14 it will be totally different anyhow.


I cannot tell how realistic it is but flight wise the F-18 is different, you don't really feel the aircraft. It is hard to describe, it is more like the computer is flying it and you just add your input without actually feel the thing floating, some folks didn't like it and so did i. TGP is missing and some others systems which leads to rudimentary hotas implementation due to systems lacking.

IMO warfare wise F-18 might be a beast once finished but in terms of flight pleasure i bet that the F-14 will be superior.
Posted By: GrayGhost

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/17/18 01:43 PM

In fact it is the computer flying it. But at the same time it has an excellent FM outside of that.
Posted By: xXNightEagleXx

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/17/18 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by GrayGhost
In fact it is the computer flying it. But at the same time it has an excellent FM outside of that.


Can you turn it off and fully control it?
Posted By: GrayGhost

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/17/18 03:33 PM

You cannot. There is literally no linkage between pilot and control surfaces. Your controls give commands to the computer, and the computer flies the aircraft. If you were to shut the FBW off, the aircraft would fall out of the sky and you couldn't do anything at all about it.

Originally Posted by xXNightEagleXx
Originally Posted by GrayGhost
In fact it is the computer flying it. But at the same time it has an excellent FM outside of that.


Can you turn it off and fully control it?
Posted By: xXNightEagleXx

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/17/18 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by GrayGhost
You cannot. There is literally no linkage between pilot and control surfaces. Your controls give commands to the computer, and the computer flies the aircraft. If you were to shut the FBW off, the aircraft would fall out of the sky and you couldn't do anything at all about it.

Originally Posted by xXNightEagleXx
Originally Posted by GrayGhost
In fact it is the computer flying it. But at the same time it has an excellent FM outside of that.


Can you turn it off and fully control it?



Thanks for that info grayghost
Posted By: specialksl

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/19/18 01:41 PM

@GrayGhost, Are you or were you a military pilot flying the F-18?
Posted By: GrayGhost

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/19/18 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by specialksl
@GrayGhost, Are you or were you a military pilot flying the F-18?


No. I used to know people who flew it and I've read the manuals, that's about it.
Posted By: Tom_Weiss

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/19/18 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by xXNightEagleXx


Can you turn it off and fully control it?


you can't turn it off as there is no FBW mechanical backup in combat aircraft -

why you can't turn it off in case of failure ? no need, there is triple hardware redundancy.

the reason why combat damage can't knock out FBW is that in order to do that, the damage has to be so extensive that the aircraft is no longer flyable and the pilot has had to eject.
Posted By: xXNightEagleXx

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/19/18 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by Tom_Weiss
Originally Posted by xXNightEagleXx


Can you turn it off and fully control it?


you can't turn it off as there is no FBW mechanical backup in combat aircraft -

why you can't turn it off in case of failure ? no need, there is triple hardware redundancy.

the reason why combat damage can't knock out FBW is that in order to do that, the damage has to be so extensive that the aircraft is no longer flyable and the pilot has had to eject.



Thank you very much Tom, indeed i was just about to ask what would happen in case of damage..... Are these backup hardware allocated in different places?
Posted By: Tom_Weiss

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/19/18 04:17 PM

If I recall correctly - the computer hardware is in one place.
Posted By: xXNightEagleXx

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/19/18 07:14 PM

Originally Posted by Tom_Weiss
If I recall correctly - the computer hardware is in one place.


At this point i would like to know whether the F22 or F35 are like this. I mean, has this became the standard for american Jets?
Posted By: Tom_Weiss

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/19/18 07:39 PM

they all are FBW and triple redundancy is I guess common to all of them

in commercial aircraft, FBW is there to make money for the airline by making aircraft more profitable by flying further and being fuel efficient

while combat aircraft are made inherently unstable to make them more maneuverable, that is why "the computer (FBW) is flying the aircraft" which is sort of true, the computer translates what the pilot wants into a flyable command.
Posted By: MigBuster

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/19/18 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by xXNightEagleXx
Originally Posted by Tom_Weiss
If I recall correctly - the computer hardware is in one place.


At this point i would like to know whether the F22 or F35 are like this. I mean, has this became the standard for american Jets?



As far as I know they are both like this yes.

One thing I would add is that you can see in NATOPS that the FA-18ABCD certainly has or did have a physical mechanical backup to its horizontal stabs for pitch and roll control in the event of certain FCS failure. The FA-18EF which is very different to the legacy only has FBW however no FA-18s were unstable to the extent the F-16 was.

With the F-16 there is no point having a physical mechanical backup because the pilot still wouldn't be able to control it..............and it would appear the F-22 and 35 are more like the F-16 in that regard....certainly the F-35 is.
Posted By: Frederf

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/20/18 05:07 AM

F-16 and F-18 are both quadruple redundant channel FCS. F-18 has spaced linkages plus another direct connection on top of that. Both have slightly inferior digital FCS programs that back up their analog ones. I don't know much about the F-15/F-14 generation but it's along the same lines of design. Complaints about these new fangled computery whiz jets have been out of date since 1979 or so. I mean how much of an oooooooollllldddd maaaaannnn do you have to be to still be wringing that bell? FBW was new, then disco happened. Give it up, FBW won. It's better. Yes F-22 and F-35 are FBW. My understanding is F-35 is the first "open cycle" FCS which doesn't do canned control response but actually looks at the feedback in real time. F-35 also has electro-hydraulic actuators so everything's electric until the last foot where it becomes hydraulic so there aren't fluid lines running around everywhere.
Posted By: specialksl

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/26/18 02:09 PM

So basically all an adversary needs to do is develop an EMP weapon of some sort, aim it at any top of the line US fighter and it will fall out of the sky.
Posted By: Tom_Weiss

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/26/18 02:43 PM

all modern combat aircraft are EMP hardened.
Posted By: GrayGhost

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/26/18 03:26 PM

If by that you mean 'anyone's top of the line fighter' rather than 'US', then sure. But as mentioned, there is EMP hardening in play. Those things may be sitting inside their own little faraday cages.

Originally Posted by specialksl
So basically all an adversary needs to do is develop an EMP weapon of some sort, aim it at any top of the line US fighter and it will fall out of the sky.
Posted By: Vitesse

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/27/18 03:35 AM

I used to run qualification tests on electronic components - radiation hardening for military grade items was a standard thing.
Posted By: Nodak01

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/31/18 04:22 AM

The newest gen has hot swappable modules, the radio module can become the FCS in a failure, so one hit isn't going to take it out quite so easy.
Posted By: GrayGhost

Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. - 10/31/18 01:19 PM

No it can't. Software defined radio allows various RF functions to be performed by different RF components, but your radio component still isn't going to become a RADAR or an FCS. The FCS is already quadruple-redundant anyway.
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