Price of F-5E

Just saw the price for the F-5E on Steam. $80.49 CAD

Yea, in your dreams ED.

In local STEAM is, in local currency equivalent 63.44 U.S. dollars.

Is the only ED module with full price in STEAM, new price police?

Other modules, due STEAM region prices, even without actual sales discount cost less than half of F-5.

that is because it was recently released - so it is to be expected that it would be full price.

and I would pay US$63 as well ...

but no way I would buy it since in case of any Steam related problems, I can't get support for it.

Either at ED or at Steam,

therefore,

the $63 go elsewhere

Shows at $59.99 $41.99 in the UK (Steam Incompatible) + $4.99 for the static "campaign", + $34.99 for and unfinished Las Vegas in order to fly the static "campaign".

So...$81.97 to fly the F-5E...I think I'll pass.

I wonder why the Mirage 2000 isn't at Steam - probably copyright reasons.

Nope, it's because it's still in Beta. Most Devs only release their content on Steam when it's officially released. Also took ages for the Mig21

Well, considering all they are giving us is one plane and a handful of missions I think even $60.00 is too steep of an asking price. No matter, I have all the aircraft I want now and bought them all on sale. Even have a couple I don't want, like the P51 and that half baked Combined Arms. Will only buy new ac now if it is an Apache or maybe F18/F16 and Eurofighter Typhoon. I even have both versions of the A10.

I agree. One might argue that 60 bucks has become "industry standard" price for full fidelity A/C releases nowadays (looking at new planes for FSX/P3D for example), but still...

Fortunately , it seems that ED noticed the meager 20-30% "promos" ain't working. We might never be getting back to 70% ones, but they've been occasionally offering up to 50% in recent months and these are much more reasonable deals, if one's patient enough to wait.

While I could see the price justification to "get into the game," with the release of the "world" for free, I can't see the logic of this price point for just the airframe. Airframe plus a campaign or two, sure. Airframe plus a map, great! But just airframe? With ED's reputation? Nope. Time to wait for a sale!

I payed 36$ (US) from 59$ (US), I used points for the rest.

You still "paid" for those points, you know that, right?

While you do, in effect, pay for bonus points, if you do take the opportunity to use them then you are still saving money over the total you would have paid without them.

I am not a huge fan of the bonus program's implementation but a discount is a discount.

I've not done the math for a while so I could be wrong but the last time I checked:
1. You only get bonus points if you buy a module on full price. Buying a module on sale does not give bonus points.
2. You can only use X amount of points depending on the sale.

The last discussion I remember was that buying modules 1, 2, and 3 on full price then using ALL bonus points to buy module 4 still turned out more expensive than buying modules 1-4 on a proper sale. Maybe this was done when ED was still doing deep discounts? Maybe this was done when ED still limited the use of bonus points? Someone needs to do the math again for todays rules and sales discounts.

Then there's the issue of bonus points "expiring" after a year or so...

I was thinking about buying the F5 , moderately interested in it ( kinda semi, not fully hard)

.....

But I noticed that there is not even a campaign with the aircraft when you buy it (not cool)

SO if it goes to maybe $20 I will buy it other wise no chance

The expiration issue is your most valid complaint. The rest is entirely dependant on your level of 'It's new and I want it now'. As I said, a discount is a discount. You can not compare it to sale prices.

I spent a bit of time, as a side job/hobby, managing a pet store for a major chain. Many coupons could not be applied to items that were on sale. Your choice was to either buy on sale or use the coupon on the full price item.

There were always people that did not like these rules. However, the company could have decided not to ever provide coupons of any sort and leave the buyer at the mercy of sales, which are never announce beforehand.

I honestly believe that ED would have been better off if the had never introduced the bonus program in the first place. It would have avoided conversations like this and there certainly would have been no complaints. When I go to the grocery store, $134 today, FWIW, I don't expect a discount later because I bought some bananas at full price today. Tbh, the sales where something is priced at, for example, 4 for $10, but you have to buy four (I don't want four), is far more offensive than any aspect of ED's bonus program.

When I want to purchase something, I assess the cost compared to how much I need the item and then I either buy it, or don't.

To complain, and I have in the past, about a bonus program that is a voluntary offering from the vendor just ceases to make sense after a certain point.

ours has become quite an expensive hobby over the years, if you include the hardware needed , even more so.

just to get 5 modules I don't right now own : $48+$40+$41+$36+$25 + 5% tax I would end up paying ... US$200

and on top of that I pay US$150 for a yearly Photoshop license ... expensive hobby indeed

Tom,

PM me. Your box is full.

Well, ED decided to offer it so now we can comment on it.

As for "points expiring" being the only valid complaint, I beg to differ. The whole idea of this "points system," as can be said for the coupon system, is to encourage the customer to spend more in the store. So the other complaint now is whether ED has something that you think is worth buying. I had taken a "wait and see" approach with my points so in effect, they were moot. Do note that I had purchased my modules (DCS A10C, BS2, FC3) well before ED brought about the points system so I was initially pleased at their gesture, then annoyed at the fact that there was a time limit. Meh. I've no interest in buying what's on offer now anyway, discount or no discount.

No offense intended, but from my perspective, if you have no interest in purchasing the product, then complaining about the discount system is like someone who doesn't like ice cream complaining about the prices at Baskin-Robbins.

I do, however, respect your right to your opinions, regardless of what I think of them.

EDIT: I will point out that you are not the only one in on the ground floor. I don't recall what I owned when the bonus system started but I can safely say that if it was released, in any purchasable form, I owned it. I suspect I have had more points expire than I have spent. Store coupons expire as well, which is why I don't keep them. By the time I decide to use them, they have usually expired.

Way over priced modules, it's not that I can't afford them, they're just not worth it, FA18 & Straits of Hormuz is all I'd consider and going by past experience with ED, that could literally take years to arrive.

Keep your bonus points...50% sales only.

I wouldn't bother, friend - several individuals got booted from ED forums recently and now drop in on every DCS thread specifically to be negative. Your choice to respond, of course, but putting them on ignore is a timesaver, because if they had anything of worth to add they wouldn't have been banned from ED.

don't forget to add to your ignore list

Force10
Barthek
EricJ56
Diveplane
Tom_Weiss

Not really. I'm complaining about the "rules" of the discount system. With ED's release schedule **AND** the lack-of-speed at which they tackle issues with modules, the discount/points system doesn't really make much sense. The points system would've been more awesome if they allowed the points to be saved for longer, or indefinitely. After all, they've chosen to "reward" players for their full-price purchase, why put a limit on your "thank you" gesture?

So I'm more like the guy whith the discount coupon complaining that Baskin-Robbins did not have my preferred flavor for a year and by the time they did offer a flavor I'm interested in, my coupon is no longer valid. And that they didn't update their ice cream menu for over a year.



Sure, and I appreciate the tone at which you present your counters. I've not had a good discussion in a long while



Not sure why the need to point it out. I only stated my example to show that ED did what I felt to be a really good move -- applying the points retroactively to people who already purchased products at full discount. This is to show that they **CAN** do something right. Unfortunately, they followed it up with the time limit.



It still befuddles me why you choose to post in a thread making absolutely no contribution whatsoever. At least me an cichlidfan are discussing the points system.
ps. I've not been banned from the ED forums, not then and not now.

Just checked as well to find this gem:


Apparently I'm at 40% warning. No "+" next to my name yet though, so.... please feel free to alert whoever it is on that end about my current activities on this forum!

Yes, and it cost them a sale when I found my points had expired by a few days.

At this time I wont be buying from ED because I personally can't justify the full price tag. They still have occasional silly sales. I'm happy to wait.

I, too, found out about the price limit when I wanted to pull a trigger on a module on sale. I was on the fence about the module... can't remember what it was now, maybe Combined Arms... but I thought with a sale price and using my points, the end price would justify the percieved value I placed on the module. When I noticed that my points were missing, I emailed ED support and got told about the time limit on the points. Oh well, thanks anyway. I guess I won't be buying the module then. That instance strengthened my resolve to adopt a wait-and-see attitude with regards to ED and it's products and I guess I'm glad that it did.

The game is excellent and so much fun. But the price of these individual addons keeps me away. I wish they would do one wwii pack of fighters for $60 for all give us a p38 p47 and add the rest of the jets in one other pack for $60 with terrain updates. That would make the community expand greatly. Every 5 or so + plane addons sell as a pack for $60

Same reason I bailed on il2 sturmo the 777 team got too greedy just added wwii aircraft to thier ROF engine with wonky ass rubberband fms and charge so much for 1-2 planes. There is only one good sim these days and DCS is it.

So you want an 80% discount, just because. Got it.

Get ready for an ala carte on the Normandy terrain and WWII assets as well.

So you want reasonable pricing for software, just because. Got it.

ED has been selling modules at this price point for the past five plus years. Now is a bit late to complain about it.

The closest equivalent competitors to DCS are high end FSX addons like A2A, Milviz, and RAZBAM. RAZBAM is uniquely supporting both sims at the moment. Consider that A2A sells a Cessna 182 for $49.99... an unarmed single engine low subsonic prop aircraft with minimal controls and avionics. Milviz sells the F-4E Phantom for $59.99, but if you want TacPack support, the bundle package is $71.99. The Milviz T-38 is $59.99. FSX with TacPack is nowhere near the equal to DCS for the simulation of combat systems, AI, etc. ED clearly knows who their competition is and has comparable pricing for equivalent product scope/features. I can live with ED's pricing.

PMDG 747-400 Queen
FSX $89.99
Prepar3D $134.99
Don't get the price difference here? cannot be so much different.

Take the A10C, there would be way more system modeling in the A10 then any other consumer sim, and then add the weapons and the weapon systems all for 39.99, now that's a bargain compared to any sim out there.

$59 is a little steep for the F5 and should come down if you compare it to what you get in systems with the A10 or Ka-50, ok it has a radar and it's new, still.

I'm OK with ED's pricing, just need ED to bring the world things up to the module platinum level would be nice at some point.

There is a reason that the A-10C is cheaper. Back in 2011 ED was trying to get it on the shelf in brick & mortar stores. Apparently they balked at the $59.99 price that ED had been getting, in their own shop, since release. It was/is, after all, a niche market item. The price got lowered and stayed there.

Those are fair points. But milviz and all the other developers for FSX and P3D are not dependant on MS/LM. They update regularly in their own timeframe. They give the impression they are actively working on their products. Unlike the products released for DCS. I have a lot of fun in p3d with tacpack, yes it's limited but there is a wealth of aircraft for that platform all of which can be tacpacked. Plus you have the world to fly in. If P3D was limited to the black sea and Nevada with no sdk and a hand full of aircraft I would choose DCS of course. The potential of DCS is huge. unfortunately it won't be realised in my lifetime because of EDs policy of withholding the SDK from the player base.

Imagine the possibilities if the SDK was available to all. Razbam would not be in the position of being a DCS 3rd party without the fsx SDK or the modding capabilities of strike fighters. I remember buying their skyraider packs, both 1 and 2, way back when for both fsx and strike fighters. It's a shame DCS is such a closed platform for the next generation of razbams.

They only want the PMDG, Razbam, A2A, higher level type of developers I guess? Plenty of not so reputable devs in that open field selling some questionable stuff for a quick buck.

Not sure why they don't release the map SDK? Possibly don't want a bunch of shoddy looking maps around under or related to the DCS name?

+1

If the only way to get the DCS map SDK is to develop some high quality scenery for another sim first, we will never see any 3rd party maps for DCS.

Ah! Good point! That must be the reason why I've not really bought anything from ED after BS2. Not that I'm complaining about it.

I do really like your thinking though... "ED's been selling stuff for silly prices for the past five+ years so it's now justified."
So you are comfortable with buying Lay's potato chips that's 80% air and 20% content, just because. Got it.



What you're forgetting is that FSX is a totally different market altogether. Does ED have the TACAN/VORTAC/VRS stations modelled in FSX? Does it have the ATC? Not to mentione the scope of the "map" alone. Comparing a combat flight simulator with a civilian flight simulator is not "competition." That, plus Johnny's points in his post.



Hahahahhahahahaha.... what?!!??!!

Yeah that made me chuckle. He obviously hasn't bought the hawk or the C101

What some 3rd parties need to be doing is not developing high fidelity aircraft but FC packs.
Here is an idea of what I would like too see developed.
Yankee station pack
Oriskany carrier
F-8
A-4
A-1
Mig 17
Route pack 1&2 map

From there they can expand the route packages 3,4,5,6a,6b expand the map south into south Vietnam, Laos.
Add aircraft, A-6, F-4, F-100 etc in Air force packs, marine packs, North Vietnam packs, FAC packs.
A FC Korea pack would outsell the F-86 and mig15 in the casual simmer market. While the high fidelity F-86/mig15 owners can plug into it.

These would increase the player base, the MP base and the fun. Plus the 3rd parties would cut their teeth with far simpler systems and forge a reputation. I don't understand why they are jumping head first, eyes wide shut into trying to build a super high fidelity aircraft that they are struggling with and that hardly anybody wants.

I see, so you have absolutely zero first hand experience with any DCS modules since 2011. Now I understand your lack of a coherent discussion.

Ok guys, but what is with the "I don't buy it" thing?
Even bad publicity is publicity, isn't it?
In my opinion ED doesn’t need any more publicity.
I will not buy any overpriced module or map anymore. It’s really so easy.
Ed looks like a drug dealer with a too big mouth just a short time before he will get a big slap in his face. I have a feeling we will see this in a short time; can’t last so long anymore.
They act right now like a publisher with too many open bills and some guys sitting in their back and swing a racket spiked with those open bills.
The first thing those guys say is:
“rise your #%&*$# prices… NOW and spilt all you can.
You need DLC, DLC and … DLC.
And use micro transfers; 1 Module without any campaign; separate the ai; and textures, and modules and sell it as something good.
Someone wants to add a dedicated server? Ok, let him pay for all the stuff he doesn’t need. And if enough people has different servers with different modules ALL have to buy all of the stuff to play this game online. There is a new sp campaign? Here we go the same way as before and the best point is…. You are the good guy because the other guys creating the campaigns or the server stuff will get butt hurt. So ED.. that’s your win win situation (if the guys on the other side are blind white knights or junkies)."

We can't do anything against it. We only can wait and see what's happen.
I think it doesn't look good in many ways for ED.
The game is a big mess in many directions.
The campaigns are mostly "out of order".
Many modules are not working like they should.
Every patch[/u] add several old and new bugs to the game only to put a new AC into the game.
Every second announcement is an announcement of a delay![u]
And so on…..

So... if you don't like it, don't buy it... and watch the train wreck.... or the phoenix... who knows?

I don't have to buy any modules past that date. There's enough people posting first-hand experience to create a clear picture of the current state of DCS. Please feel free to point out where my discussion points are not on-target regarding DCS.... until you do, I suggest you go and play with little kids and leave the grown up discussion to the grown ups. I'm tired of having to call the Waaahmbulance...

Enjoy your Lays potato chips!

Hahaha!! Indeed! If you don't like it, don't buy it!

Then there are people here who think first-hand experience and actually OWNING a module is needed for your opinion to count. Why should I waste my money when I can do two clicks on the internet and find out what the module is a waste of money? Do I have to burn my cash as well in order to call a module bad? It's thinking like this that allows ED to thrive.

I've seen ED start to go down this route way back then... I only need a few moments to confirm that they're still going down this route and even forging new frontiers on their way down. I don't need to waste a single cent of my hard-earned money to do this.... I'd rather give my coins to the bum on the street corner. A hot cup of coffee will do him more good and will contribute to the positivity of the world than giving it to ED.

The fact that you refer to him as bum is very telling. Thanks for the insight.

Pffft!! Yeah, concentrate on the fact that I referred to him as a "bum" rather than some other term that is more in line with your sensibilities. Nevermind the fact that I'm giving him money, helping him out. Selective reading much? Oh, yeah, you go out of context to snipe at other posters because you can't handle the CONTENT of their posts. Thanks for the insight!

The salt bottle just fell down the TV

Oh my what have I done!

Looking at your posts, I just thought we were posting random incoherent stuff.

Looks I was right.

I guess you missed all of David_OC's posts.

Also, do you have something to contribute to the thread or are you just here to fling your poop around?

I think any hobby can become expensive if you pursue it to any decent level. My first telescope cost about $150 but I ended up sinking thousands into Astro-imaging. Learning to fly costs thousands and yet I did that as a hobby/pastime even though I really wasn't earning much (but I fly for a living now so I guess it wasn't a waste of money in the end).

This is so true! Heck, in pursuit of my simulation hobby, I needed to learn how to work with wood and had to buy the necessary tools as well. An el-cheapo £20 drill that goes on/off was okay, but when I bought a B&D one for £35, the ability to control the speed of the drill based on finger pressure on the trigger made life so much more easier. I can also make cuts using a jigsaw, but using a circular saw was easier. Both were then trumped when I got a router.

However, it's not really the expense that people are lamenting about. People are not exactly complaining about the 1080 or 1070 that they are buying to run this sim. It's the fact that even at $60 or $50 or $40, the sim does not feel "worth it".... for reasons that have been repeated so many times. If ED cleaned up their act and sorted out those concerns, these complaints would go away. I'd happily pay for £100-150 for a good meal for the family at a nice place and it'll be money well spent. £40 at McDonalds? YGTBSM!!

That depends on if you consider McDonalds to be a good analogy for DCS. Personally I think it is pretty amazing, but we both know that our positions on that are polar opposite.

And im somewhere between you two, i love and hate dcs 50/50 ... if only falcon BMS will get VR support , then i dont have to play dcs until its fixed enough for me ( 90% of my hate is because dcs AI is so bugged that making missions is pain in my butt)

I wish they could make the maps a little better in BMS and not have so much repetition to the look of the land and cities. VR support would be good, you would think flyinside would go after this market if they could.

The world would be a different place if we had a combat sim like F4 with its Dynamic Campaign and with DCS visuals, well most of the time, they seem to be playing with things at the moment.

Not a direct comparison, no. Just comparing paying for a nice meal at a fancy place and then paying too much for "junk food." McDonalds, Burger King, take your pick. Not that fast food isn't "amazing," it can be especially when you're hungry at 4am and everywhere else is closed.... but again, I was comparing cost vs. what you get for the money.


The new Korea map has removed a good deal of the repetition... and then I suggest you look at the 3rd-party add-on maps and then tell me if you still have this "repetition" issue

In my opinion , its not worth it unless it had a good discount

Remember, unless you are an elected official, you have no business criticizing elected officials. You don't have the knowledge or experience necessary to know what they should or shouldn't do.




The Jedi Master

And unless you have actually EATEN poop, you can't ever say "This tastes like #%&*$#!!"